This page is always updated and fits the current day and time. If anything changes, I will say so. ~Janie
I never thought that I’d be writing this, but patient- reported evidence underscores that all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have changed from the consistent, quality NDT’s they used to be. 🙁
Where’s the evidence? It’s from many patients who were doing well on each one for years, then saw their symptoms go south, including seeing changes in the tablet at the same time.
- ARMOUR by Allergan--which for years (before Allergan bought out Forest) was always a consistent and excellent NDT, was the first that patients noticed had made a change in 2009. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypo. 2015 also saw a similar problematic change. See the September, 2015 Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) blog post. Good news: as of early 2020 as I’m adding this part, Armour has been working for some as long as you seek to get optimal, even if it’s still not the same NDT it used to be (harder, far more expensive). Some add T3 to it if they feel it’s needed. Same with 2021, even with what appear to be some bad batches. Many patients report still doing well on it. Time will tell.
- ERFA Canada’s NDT in Canada, which many in the US moved over to after Armour went south in 2014 (but is better today and is working if one gets optimal)-there were vast patient reports of a return of hypo symptoms after Erfa had been a great product before. And of course, Erfa stated they changed nothing. Here’s my blog post. It’s still not the smoothly consistent NDT it used to be.
- NATURETHROID by RLC Labs, which gave excellent results for years, seemed to royally change in 2018 when it came back out after a hiatus. Too many patients reported a miserable return of their hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way when they got back on. See that blog post here. Even though some patients swear it’s working, their labs reveal otherwise, sooner or later. WP Thyroid seems to have gone downhill as well, reported by several patients. Remember it’s about being optimal, not just “how you feel”. Update: there has been a 2020 recall of Naturethroid as well as WP due to sub-potency.
- NP THYROID, the last remaining consistent and excellent NDT by Acella Pharmaceuticals, seemed to have made the worst change by the summer of 2019. Patients started to report a miserable return of hypo symptoms. But it didn’t end there. Patients also reported a slew of other terrible symptoms, ranging from nausea, burning in stomach, allergic reactions, flu-like symptoms and more depending on who was reporting. Also reported is a highly repulsive taste and rank smell (many patients comparing it to cat pee or kitty litter). My blog post about this here. In 2020 as I’m writing this part, it appears by patients that Acella is now trying cover up the nasty inside with a coating. But that hasn’t changed that it’s nowhere near what is used to be, and also leaves patients wondering what they are still putting in their bodies under that coverup coating. 2020 also announced a recall of NP tabs made in 2018/early 2019, stating super-potent levels of T3. But to ONLY recall NP because of what occurred BEFORE patients reported a return of hypothyroid symptoms, and some with worsening labs starting in the Summer of 2019, and especially starting in the Fall of 2019, seems a bit weird, don’t you think??
And the pharmaceuticals don’t seem to give a damn, exclaim patients!
Sadly, when hypothyroid patients reported contacting each pharmaceutical about the return of their hypo symptoms as well as other strange symptoms, the pharm replies were similar: “We didn’t change anything”. That line was especially true for Erfa, RLC Labs and now Acella, say patients. Some patients have cried “Foul!” and compared it to gaslighting and dismissal.
Or, after patients reported to Acella about a strong return of hypothyroid symptoms on top of the clearly changed tablets, the first seemingly official Acella-reply never even mentioned the horrible symptoms, and simply underscored that “it is normal for tablet colors to be different between batches and have a slight smell’. No, say the majority of patients, the new smell was far worse than any NDT all these years, besides being repulsive, as is the taste. Many patients have compared the smell to kitty litter or cat pee. See patient comments as to what was happening to them on this blog post.
At the time of this writing, not ONE pharmaceutical has done a thing to return these NDT’s to their former, consistent and smooth excellence which once changed our lives, or even considered or admitted that their product was no more what it used to be…or cared. Said one patient in a group “They remind me of the three monkeys.”
It’s all about the money, not about you.
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2014/07/29/do-drug-companies-make-drugs-or-money/#3941ddd07a52
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24088146
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/11/big-pharmaceutical-companies-are-spending-far-more-on-marketing-than-research/
- https://www.bbc.com/news/business-28212223
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm8fHxqUAM
- Bloomberg article from 2018
- https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-evils-of-big-pharma-exposed/5425382
- https://www.sciencealert.com/how-much-top-journal-editors-get-paid-by-big-pharma-corrupt
- And hundreds of thousands more articles….
“But I feel good on the changed prescription NDT’s”…
Here are four things we’ve noticed when someone says that….
1) They are still on the former good NP Thyroid (at the time of this writing), somehow managed to be on the former Naturethroid, or are just an exception to the rule…but they are still at risk….
2) They do “feel better” on certain NDT brands which are proven to have gone south. But there’s a failure to understand that “feeling better” may be the result of an increase in adrenaline and cortisol due to still being hypothyroid because of the changes to these brands. We have seen this a lot lately. And their labs (free T3 and free T4) reveal the truth i.e. if the free T3 is midrange (non-optimal) or lower, or the FT4 is low, yet one feels good, it’s usually the adrenaline release.
3) They are combining a low dose of NP Thyroid or Naturethroid with higher doses of T3. They may not notice what’s been going on with others since their NP dose is so low, and their T3 is helping. But some would worry that whatever is in NP (or Naturethroid) now causing all these issues isn’t worth putting in our bodies.
4) Or an unknown, since so many are not doing well. We need to continue figuring this out….
So what are our options now?
Remember, we have found in each other that we still have to be optimal on any of the below.
- Synthetic T3 with synthetic T4. Yes, they can work for many, espeically those who are getting optimal. So it’s not about a token small dose of T3 (like 5 mcg) that too many doctors will put you on, and leave you on. Dosing the FT3 and FT4 is still very important, we have experienced. Note that one grain of NDT has approx. 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 (this was inadvertently backwards in those who get an email notification. Forgive me). So a switch to the two synthetics can be made based on that, and in a few weeks, we retest the free T3 and free T4. Also take the time in groups to ask others what T3 has been working for them, whether they are swallowing or chewing it up, etc. (For example, the Mayne version has been awful for many patients. So you have to decide if you want it for you. There are other brands.)
- Armour Yes, it’s the ONLY one that may still work for some; others have had issues with it. But it’s worth a try, and be prepared that those “some” may need to add T3 to it and get optimal Also be prepared that also for “some” depending on where you live, it went way up in price compared to where it used to be. Sad.
- Natural thyroid “supplements” like NutriMeds, Thyrogold, Thyrovanz and others like them. And remember that even on these, patients have reported the need to be optimal, not just “on them”. NOTE: there are times that even these OTC natural thyroid supplements aren’t doing the job correctly. So it could be wise to keep T3 on hand if that happens to you.
- A new Thai version of NDT called Tru Thyroid. Sadly, it appears that Thyroid-S, Thiroyd, and T-man aren’t made anymore. Bad timing!!And right now, we haven’t gotten enough feedback about Tru Thyroid. And this? https://www.bioiberica.com/en/media/news/healthcare/bioiberica-launches-natural-origin-thyroid-api-cphi-2019
- Being on T3-only Yes it works well, but most need to multi-dose it at least three times a day, 3-4 hours a part, to counter the lack of T4 converting to T3 behind the scenes. And some add a small dose at bedtime.
- Compounded Thyroid There do appear to a few compounding pharmacies who are using a good source of porcine powder made only for compounders. There are also some patients who are reporting that the PCCA-sourced porcine powder is causing problems (just like pharmaceutical-made NDTS.). We are keeping an eye on that. If you know of a pharmacy which is compounding porcine powder that still works, and you are optimal on it, comment below.
Please use this information in working with your doctor if you can. Or find a better one to work with.
I, Janie Bowthorpe, am disgusted by this.
Disgusted that the last consistently excellent NDT by Acella also went down the drain as experienced and reported by a wide variety of patients.
Disgusted by the dismissals by pharmaceuticals when patients report all their returned symptoms and even new and awful symptoms.
Disgusted that they will simply say “we changed nothing” when clearly each NDT did change as reported by patients seeing a return of symptoms with changed tablets.
Disgusted that not even one pharm acknowledges something went wrong, and thus, no changes to the NDT.
Disgusted that we now have this problem on top of doctors who can’t see past their noses about the right use of the former NDT or T3 in the first place.
Disgusted that some facilities are even refusing to test the free T3 and free T4, which are VERY important in finding our right dose of whatever we are on. Or refusing to the test the reverse T3, which is also VERY important.
Disgusted that one pharmaceutical representative may have said that this is all just social media hysteria. Unbelievable.
Disgusted that those in Europe and elsewhere are under a medical system which makes it nearly impossible to get T3, or thinks a TSH up to 10 is fine and dandy.
Disgusted that too many of the over-60 wonderful patients can’t get US medicare to pay for NDT, to pay for T3, both which CHANGE LIVES.
Disgusted by the implication that our wonderful over-60 thyroid patients should be on only T4, or off needed thyroid meds.
I am totally and thoroughly disgusted.
But let’s not be silent about this!
Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.
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1,070 Responses to “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients”
mili
Hola! quería saber si alguien de aquí esta tomando THYROVANZ los suplementos de tiroides desecada de bovino. son las unicas que pude conseguir, ya que soy de argentina y son de venta libre. Alguien me daría una reseña de estas? mi gran problema es el engrosamiento de la piel y cambios de facciones por el hipotiroidismo, además de la caída de pelo, cansancio, piel seca.
Además quería consultar, si les resulta imprescindible dejar el gluten con hipotiroidismo que NO es de hashimoto, que opinan?
Janie Bowthorpe
There are plenty of people without Hashi’s who have no issue with gluten.
Throvanz is fine, and this is your goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/. Read every word. Don’t skip anything.
Kate
Looking for a Dr in central MA that is open to optimal t4/t3 dosing. It has almost been 10 years and the search is still on!
Anna
Thyroid-S is still available (it was unavailable for a while during the pandemic). Production has started again and there are no shortages ATM. However, the price has gone up so it is no longer a cost-effective solution. And some batches are reported to be weak, with some users reporting a high TSH and a return of hypo symptoms on it.
There is a new NDT from Vietnam, Vitalithy, in capsule form without lactose or cellulose, but I cannot find any reviews on it. It is also expensive ($155 for 250 capsules).
vitalithyndt.com
Rhonda
I have lost 1/2 of my hair density over the past 2 years. I have gotten on a combination dose of t4/t3 that seems to have stopped the loss but no regrowth yet. I saw a new endo today that is perfectly fine with prescribing armor thyroid. I’m afraid the hair loss will start again.
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour does not cause hair loss. Being underdosed and not optimal does. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/
Roberta Adams
I’m in Canada. Just tried to switch from Synthroid to desiccated thyroid. 45 mg of DT gave me a numb face and splitting headache that lasted all day. The next day I tried 2/3 dose (30 mg). It gave me a numb face all day but no headache. I called my pharmacist and he said stop taking it as that is an abnormal side effect. Any ideas? ????
Janie Bowthorpe
That is odd about the numb face. Is this Erfa? I personally have no idea unless you are allergic to a filler. Perhaps you can consider adding T3 to that T4, and this would be the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal It’s not a terrible thing at all to be on both synthetics as long we you achieve this goal.
Adrienne
Any Adthyza users out there giving feedback yet? I’m considering switching from NP Thyroid. Despite all the issues the last few years I’ve been doing okay until recently. Not feeling amazing but my numbers were pretty close to the STTM optimal range. But I had some health issues and extreme stressful events late last year which triggered my depression and a host of other problems. I had a baby in 2021 so my labs were wonky for a year or so but i actually felt amazing postpartum. Unfortunately at some point my health started to deteriorate again. My labs in May were not great but passable but late July my numbers had tanked. Now I’m wondering if the NP Thyroid problems have finally caught up to me (or they made another change?) and I am desperate to switch to something that is working. I’m deciding between Adthyza or synthetic T3/T4 combo.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s really important to analyze first if the problem is in your treatment and lab results and not directly due to the NP. Sometimes people will say their labs were optimal, yet when they reveal them with ranges, they are not. For example, you said your labs were “passable”. That sounds too general, becauuse being truly optimal is not about general. Thus, symptoms come back. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Or another cause is rising RT3. Have you tested your RT3 lately? https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Marly Downy
I have used desiccated thyroid for years. First the Armour until that changed, then the RLC until that changed, then the Acella up until now August 2023, through Walgreens. I recall the 2019 was issues with Acella, but I thought that was resolved. I don’t know if I was receiving stockpiled Acella as I have felt well on it, and I am tested twice a year with thorough labs. But I received a surprise this week when my RX for my Acella 1.5 grain was only partially filled. When I called for a status on this partial RX to be completely filled, I was notified they are using a new company, one I’ve never heard of. ANI Pharmaceuticals from Baudette, Minnesota. I’d like to be optimistic and believe this is a good thing, but I’d appreciate any information on this company. Their website says they have been in business since 1996.
Reading the comments, I too am concerned about the quality of the porcine. It was mentioned that some people take synthroid, T3 mix and how some are doing well on this combination. I would really appreciate information on whether the T3 is a brand or a custom made T3 from a compounded pharmacy?
Blessings to you Janie! You are a loving warrior! Thank you so much for all your hard work. It is so appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
If you are on only 1.5 grain of any NDT, years of our experiences have taught us that you will be underdosed, and that you will eventually start feeling worse. 1.5 grains never achieve this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ optimal
And you are very welcome. Thank u for what you stated.
Amirah
Synthroid worked to decrease TSH. I Believe my thyroid dysfunction was due to emotional and chronic malnutrition. I was able to get Dessicated thyroid compounded without typical chemical filters from pure integrative compounding pharmacy in West Vancouver. The physician that assisted me is Dr Lucas Macmillan – Delbrook Integrative. He was extremely sincere and took my wants into consideration. I will retest all the thyroid biomarkers in 4-6 weeks. I was off medication for months. My thyroid naturally came down from 20 to 2.7. Not optimal but working on it 100%. If this does not work I will have to get compounded synthetic T3/T4. Synthroid is not my preferred source of medication. My endocrinologist helped me but I had to persist SEVERAL times. Some doctors in BC and naturopaths are absolutely HORRIBLE. You must be your own advocate at all times.
Broken Hearted
I just learned last week that they are shooting up the pigs, most likely in every large processing facility!!! This is so terrible! Maybe there are cleaner porcine from other countries going into NDT. Doubt it. Thanks so much for your website. I’m going to switch back to synthetics and hope and pray this somehow stops. No bacon/ pulled pork/ ham/ carnitas. Unbelievable 🙁
Roberta Adams
Shooting up with what?
Marc
I also am looking in to purchasing Thyroid-S from Thailand. Can anyone vouch for order websites?
I’ve found one but pre-payment is requested via Western Union. Any secure places to buy?
NOTE: Marc will need to be emailed, not links posted here.
Aunt Vicki
For Thyroid S, try Goodstuffstore.net
Cheapest price I can find so far.
Peter
The manufacturer will ship for cheaper prices than the website. Payment is through PayPal from what I recall. You can contact sales from their website for specifics. https://sriprasit.com/wp/
Steve
There are many mentions of Thyroid-S below. Is it still available and if so may I ask were?
Regina
I’ve been getting T3/T4 from a compounding pharmacy in Scottsdale, Arizona. It’s called, “Raintree Apothecary.”
Jan
Hi Regina – that must mean that you have found a doctor that will prescribe the compounded T4/T3 – can you share their name/practice? thanks
Regina
Hi Jan, my naturopath was the prescriber, but I recently found out she went out of business. Her phone # was disconnected. Back to the drawing board. (Sigh….)
There’s a naturopathic school in Tempe. Maybe they can recommend someone.
Laura
Is it working for you?
Drew
Hey Janie, I am currently looking into switching from t4 only to NDT or adding t3. I see there have been issues with most of the NDT and want to ensure I am going the best route. Is it ok to just add t3 to my current t4 and not have to worry about a bad batch of NDT? Or is it better to try Armour (seems to have the least problems) and add t3 until optimal? Will I get the same results using either method? I have looked for years to a solution to my health problems and this site/book has given me hope. Just wanted to get your thoughts. Thank you!
Janie Bowthorpe
There has been no issue with Armour for the vast majority. Those that say there is usually aren’t optimal with their frees https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal, or having rising RT3 https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3, or have a cortisol problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info. ALL are treatable.
Karen Coffee Standefer
Thyroid S is still available I believe. I ordered some late 2021 direct from the supplier in Thailand.
Sj
Thai brand SPS Thyroid is what I have been using for the past 6 months (since April 2022).
It’s working well. My problem is that the pill is so tiny it’s difficult to cut. Each pill is 60mg I take half in the morning and a quarter at midday.
Philippa Snowdon
Beating the same old drum. See thyroid demonstrations in France). For some BUT not all of us the addition of Mannitol as an excipient, or inactive ingredient, makes any medicine biologically unavailable.
Perhaps because this metabolic anomaly is not universal, so many people are confused with the failure of their medicines.
Laura mannitol
Is it working for you?
Lynn McMillan
I’m currently on NP 120 & 25 mccg liothyronine. Labs last Thurs. TSH .02, FT3 2.5 , FT4 0.7. Inflammation, fatigue, & brain fog…gained 18lbs in 3 mon. Raised the T3 from 15 to 25 and it only moved FT3 from 2.3 to 2.5. Trying to figure out if I need more T3 or could it be parathyroid or pituitary?
Janie Bowthorpe
Compare your Frees to what’s on this page and you’ll see the problem: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Don’t skim. Read at all carefully,
Robin w
My TSH has always been low (0.01) for years. Now, my cardiologist is saying that my Afib might be caused by that. He said there is a high correlation of Afib with low TSH. How do I know?
Janie Bowthorpe
That is total BS. There can be a high correlation of Afib with “Graves’ disease” which can lower TSH. But there are other reasons for a low TSH which does NOT cause afib: having T3 in one’s treatment, or having hypopituitary, which is usually a low TSH with a low Free T3. We can also see afib when we are raising T3 in the presence of a cortisol problem.
Daniel Stonehocker
I’m 18 with a TSH of 4.56, where can I find the correct treatment for this?
Janie Bowthorpe
The incorrect treatment, and also mentions the correct ones: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work Read it all. Don’t just skim it. We have to be informed to counter bad doctor info. And we can guarantee that most docs will try to put you on the incorrect treatment.
And here are the labs you go by, and the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And here’s why you don’t just go by the TSH from now on: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
And an overview of what we have learned: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned And yes, I have given you a lot of reading. But if you don’t learn it, you won’t recognize the poor treatment protocols you will get from too many doctors.
Kathleen
I’ve had such problems over the years with thyroid meds! I was doing ok(not amazing) for the last few years and my new naturopath talked me into a change. I would love your thoughts. Originally took WP thyroid before all the issues and then went to compounded NDT (113.75) and 15 mcg t3. Labs
Tsh .01, ft4 .9 (.8-1.8), ft3 3.1(2.3-4.2) rt3 14(higher than normal) My thyroid labs have been like this for years. Recent Iron total 118, binding capacity 269, saturation 44%, ferritin 72.
My naturopath didn’t like my tsh so low for bone issues. So she took away my t3. Tsh.02, ft4 .8, ft3 2.7, rt3 9.
Then she said we should try synthetic. I’ve tried synthroid and it didn’t go well so we did compounded t4/t3 (72/17 mcg). I’m on my second day of it and I have terrible pains all over and feel crummy. What could be the reason behind this? The pharmacy mistakenly gave me avicel as a filler so they are sending me new meds. Is it the filler? The change to synthetic? I don’t know but it is horrible!
Janie Bowthorpe
No matter what we on, we simply have to get our frees optimal, and most especially the free T3. You need to read every part of this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And going to nothing but T4 is a doctor I would personally run from. Same with any medical professional that lowers or takes away T3.
Lynn
I read somewhere about a compounding pharmacy in Tennessee that will use Sweet Potato powder when compounding T3. I also have heard of using olive oil. I seem to be allergic to the fillers used by Lee Silsby, and I’m apparently allergic to the porcine components. What do I do? Where can I find this type of info? I’ve tried ThyroGold and it worked for me for years but then suddenly stopped working. Same with ALL the prescription NDTs, I’ve tried them all in my 20 years of searching (after being miserable on Synthroid for 20 years). I just don’t know where to look next, Google is no help. Is there a list of compounding pharmacies that have worked with your readers? I’m a desperate woman!
Janie Bowthorpe
If you are allergic to porcine, you can move to using synthetic T4 with synthetic T3 very successfully. A starting dose would be “around” 40mcg T4 and 10mcg T3. Then we raise each amount by half every two weeks, slowing down to do labs somewhere around 100 mcg T4 and around 25mcg T3. Carefully and thoroughly read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
BUT, if you have low iron, inflammation or high cortisol, we keep the T4 at the starting dose mentioned to prevent rising RT3, which comes from T4 in the presence of any of the former three, and only raise T3 until an optimal free T3 is achieved. And treat any of those three issues. Also read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Tiko
Dear Optimal Thyroid Community-
I have been on one form of NDT or another since 2005 (after 4 awful years on synthetic T4). This site helped me get through the yearlong transition from T4 alone to Armour. I was happily on Armour until 2009, when I switched to compounded NDT, which was fabulous until last year. After not being able to get it because of the porcine powder shortage; reluctantly going on WP and then NP (only to have them prove sub-optimal); NDT powder was again available earlier this year so I returned to compounding in the same method and amount as usual. BUT after only a few days on a new bottle (filled in May because I buy a few months at a time due to an intense travel schedule even in pandemic times and have only just run out of my pre-shortage store), I am horribly hyper and have a strange metallic taste in my mouth. I am wondering if there have been other reports of either mis-measurements or toxicites in the newly sourced powder? I suspect it is the material itself rather than the compounding pharmacy as they have never once made a mistake in the 12 years I have been using them. Thoughts?
Thank you for all your work!
Janie Bowthorpe
Tiko, here’s something else to consider: having hyperlike symptoms can also happen when the t3 in one’s treatment is revealing a cortisol problem. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
As far as the metallic taste, that can also happen if the compounded is not taking you out of your hypothyroid state (due to being underdosed or a bad batch outsourced from another country) or your RT3 is going up.
Tiko
Thank you, Janie. Yes, I DO have cortisol issues but they were being well-addressed (or so I thought) before this newest batch of compounded NDT. I suspect my current symptoms are from the dodgy source of powder affecting RT3. There’s a notice on the homepage that references cow product; is that being used as well as pig?
I’m going back to Armour and seeing what happens if I just up the amount I’m taking to address absorption issues. Has anyone, yourself included, had success with an general guideline. If I was on 1.85 grains of compounded NDT, should I try 2 grains (just as an example)? I looked through the site but did not immediately see any suggestions in that realm, just that people were addressing the absorption issues by taking more. Again, you do the world a great service by existing!
PS. How on earth does one negotiate all these iterations of mess up, I wonder? My husband keeps joking that we should start keeping pigs, have them slaughtered at the right time of year, send the glands to a lab and make our OWN Armour! I might just take him up on that at some point if this newest version of the thyroid mismanagement madness continues.
Janie Bowthorpe
Cow/bovine thyroid is being used for over-the-counter thyroid products, yes. Some do well on it; others aren’t.
JAN
are you splitting the dose…when i first started armour…i had to cut the pills and split the dose into 3 times a day, then got to 2 times a day over a 2 mth period…..to let my body adjust to getting the t3…..and a few mths later can take all of it at once w NO hyper like symptoms……for me there was a transition period to let my body adjust…which is quite common
Angie F.
Tiko. I have not noticed a metallic taste, but a recently (August) compounded batch had me feeling VERY hyper as well. I’d be interested in knowing the specifics of where you got your meds compounded. My pharmacy uses PCCA and I’ve only experienced slight subpotent issues. Never this.
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, help us explore this from all angles. First, tell us if anything here seems familiar: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Angie F.
Yes. Very familiar. In fact the same response every time I had a problem with thyroid meds that was confirmed NOT to be an adrenal nor iron problem but a problem with the meds themselves.
I find a certain amount of irony in the insistence that we not allow doctors to put us into their box and insist they listen and then not listening.
https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/acella-facing-43-serious-side-effect-reports-pulls-dozens-lots-sub-potent-thyroid
Please read.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, there are some out there with issues that appear to point to their recent pickup of a new prescription of Armour. No doubting there. But we also have patients who are blaming their Armour, yet it turns out not to be the Armour but directly from their own issues. Additionally, we still have so many doing well on Armour with labs to prove it. So it’s important in our investigation to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, until we figure all this out! It’s crazy out there with NDT.
Renata
Hi all, I’ve been following this site for quite a long time and like everyone else my journey has been really challenging. I live in Dublin, Ireland and the health system is really old. What I mean with this is that there is very few options for us to make our own decisions considering everything has to go through the GP.
I used to take synthetic thyroid, then Armour, and have been on NP Thyroid for a few years. It’s been ok until last year. I feel tired, foggy brain and many other symptions, not to mention the price has gone up so much I can’t afford it.
Can anyone please share the name of a good practitioner, locally or not, who understand about our issues and can work with us instead of against us? I’ve been looking for a long time. I think with COVID many doctors are accepting online calls, so I am hoping someone here can help. I need to buy new meds today and I really don’t know what to do. I am actually really afraid of taking more NP Thyroid with the recall and my symptoms. Thank you in advance, and thank you so much for this community.
Theresa
Hi Janie,
I am allergic to synthetic thyroid meds. They all mess with my heart. They also give me a great back pain. I was put on armor and it was great until they change the formula. Then my doctor went to a compounding pharmacy and they use porcine thyroid with rice flour. That was great. Then this big issue with no more porcine thyroid. I have been using over-the-counter bovine and it’s not helping me. I can’t even get thyrovanz now, had to switch to Nutrimeds My TSH is 26 ugggh!!!
Is there anyone that does porcine thyroid without all the additives for compound. How can I contact them? My Endocrinologist does not know where I can get it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Have you checked your RT3 on T4-only meds? It may be that the T4 is converting to RT3, not that you are allergic to them. Just an idea.
And no matter what we are on (when T3 is also in the treatment), this is our goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
There appears to be nothing out there without fillers. The T4 called Tirosint has very few. Then you could find a T3 that has less.
Gail
I, too, have many food/ingredient intolerances. I most recently used NP Thyroid until all the recalls. I have been taking Tirosint (synthetic T4 without fillers; clear gel capsule) and Cytomel for the last few months. I feel better than I have in years. Will see my doctor soon for blood labs. Maybe Tirosint/Cytomel would work for you?
Renata
Hi Gail, would you mind sharing your doctor details in case he/she accepts talking to people abroad? Thank you.
Nicole
Women’s International pharmacy compounds porcine thyroid and uses olive oil as the only filler.
Kirsten
I have been using Women’s International Pharmacy and have been very happy with them.
Rachel Hamlin
Hi again,
I have been on Armour since the NP cat piss change. And I’ve been being treated for low ferritin (but others normal) MTHFR, and tryng to treat mold illness, chronic EBV, and now LYME…. but after reading your notes about Iron/ferritin and MTHFR I wonder if it could just all be my MTHFR and the crappy Armour???? I had a really hard time trying to take oral iron though-and if it is not being absorbed what do I do?
and what dose shoudl I be on of methylfolate?
Also I think I’m allergic to pork, but never responded to synthetics – I thought I’d try the Ancestral beef thyroid… any thoughts please?
It’s been so hard – I can barely feed my kids lunch. It hurts to walk up stairs, I’m exhausted after ten hours in bed and I’m only 40. (no thyroid due to TT which I deeply regret)
last levels were : ferritn: 26
C4a : 1500
FT3: 3.2
TIBC: 327
FT4: 1.13
TSH: .008
Help?
Janie Bowthorpe
We have learned the hard way that we don’t just treat a single ferritin result. We can have low ferritin and good or high iron. You have to look at all four iron labs. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron
Janie Bowthorpe
Also compare your other thyroid labs to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Rachel
Sorry reading all that was what led to my question:
I do have all the iron bloodwork but with the normal others and low ferritin it sounds like the MTHFR issue? Which I have been tested as having a part mutation with. But I couldn’t figure out from that page what to DO about it? If taking iron then doesn’t help (but I have almost all the symptoms listed on your linked iron page) what can I do? I have plenty of dietary iron….. but I guess I’m not absorbing? (this seems to be a theme with vitmins? I’m also on RX strength vitamin D2 which was at 0…)
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s hard to comment without seeing all your iron labs. Can you reply with the results and ranges?
Rachel
Iron:
TIBC: 327 (up from 282) range 250-450
UIBC 223 (up from 159) r 131-425
Iron 104 (down from 123) r 27-159
Iron sat. 32 (down frmo 44) r 15-55
Ferritin 26 (down from 45; it was 2 when tested previously – this is why DR tried to supplement) r 15-150
Also : C4a (inflammation marker) 1439 (down from 2195) range 0-650 (!!)
Vit D 80 (up from 47)
D2 45 (up from less than 1!!!)
D3 35 (down from 46)
confirmed C7660T (if i remember correcrtly) partially MTHFR mutation.
Thanks you!!! (also – I tend to run hot and now my periods come every 25 days (used to be 32-35) so it doesn’t seem liek that is hypothoid? I have all the muscle weakness,cramps, feelinghto that you list for low iron though. Also always dizzy.)
Janie Bowthorpe
When we see fairly good looking iron results and low ferritin, it seems to be this, not treating the low ferritin: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/mthfr
Glad to see your c4a going down. I had the same test when I had a mold illness.
With dizziness, we check out this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Rachel
Oh I didn’t see it had come through! So maybe I need a higher dose of methylfoalte? I’ve been doing 1.5/1,500 for years and years…Its been a while since I did the saliva test but it was normal back then. The D2 supplementation helped bring the dizziness down but it is not all gone. Quitting pork also seems to be helping
Ok try number two:
TIBC 327 (previously 282) range 250-450
UIBC 223 (p 159) r 131-425
Iron 104 (p 123) r 27-159
Iron SAturation 32 (p 44) r 15-55
ferritin 26 (originially 14 when Dr started trying to supplement) 15-150
C4a (inflammation) 1439 (down from 2195!!!) range 0-650
Also Vit D 80 (up from 47)
Vit D2 45 (up from less than one – so Dr started me on 20,000 Vit D2 once a week)
Vit D3 35 (down from 46)
Side note – i seem to run hot, and period comes every 25 days instead of the 32-35 from long before – which doesn;t seem hypo? But do have the leg/calf cramps, difficulty with stairs and muscle weakness and hotness you list in the low iron section.
Thank you!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Read Dr. Ben Lynch’s book Dirty Genes. It might help, too.
Janie Bowthorpe
Periods closer together have happened to still-hypo women before.
Mendy
Have you got any info regarding Forefront Health thyroid glandular? I almost ordered and have this pause – I have searched all over your website for info because I trust you and the patients but can not find anything. thanks for such good info and sharing!
Janie Bowthorpe
The reality is that all companies or websites of bovine thyroid are getting their bovine from similar sources. So we haven’t seen any one brand being any better than another. We’ve also noticed over the years that it’s not uncommon for any bovine brand to have weak or changed batches here or there.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie is there a reputable compounding pharmacy in Europe that deliver to the U.K please?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Paul. Join the NTH Europe group. It’s shown on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others
Pamela K Corley
Any reviews on Grass Fed Natural Desiccated Thyroid by Ancestral Supplements?
Janie Bowthorpe
It would depend on if someone does a screenshot of the free T4, free T3 and RT3 in order to know for sure. It’s never just about “how you feel”, because we can, at first, feel good on bovine, only to later see problems.
Michele altobelli
I think if you go with the bovine you might try adding other formulas to help with it. Like if you don’t have enough bile salts in The gallbladder you won’t absorb much of any medication or vitamins so that could be a missing link to try. I have this problem and problems with medication so I am trying other glandular formulas to work together.
Janie Bowthorpe
The problem with bovine won’t be fixed by other supplements. We’ve seen a body of people who use it finding themselves with high Rt3, which turns out to be related to when the cow was slaughtered. And each batch can vary in strength.
Shantel Brooks
I have been following STTM since 2014 but with everything going on in the last year plus, I haven’t checked back recently. I am floored and disheartened. I am on Armour currently (120mg) and have been back on it for 1 year (after a situation that landed me in the hospital last year due to drug reactions). I am also on 75mcg T3 but my ft3 and ft4 are both below the bottom of the range? It is like I am not taking any meds. Reading this about Armour, I thought that it could make sense of my labs but my ft3??? No med interactions and nothing that is blocking absorption. Could the Armour somehow interfere with the T3 uptake too?
Janie Bowthorpe
Is your ancestry from western Europe like England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland or nearby? Because that seems to be a hotbed for a mutation that causes Thyroid Hormone Resistance. Thus, people with it end up needing very high amounts of NDT and T3 to get out of their hypothyroid state.
Christine Maddy
Current assessment of NP thyroid? I asked for an increase in my Armour and my new prescription is NP. Should I discriminate based on the 2020 changes or have an open mind?
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m a listener and collector of patient reported experiences and observations. And for those who feel they are doing well, there seem to be an awful lot who aren’t doing well on it. So who knows.
Stacy C
I have been on NP Thyroid 75 mg for a while now. I was still symptomatic with need to nap, increasing weight and dry skin being my biggest issues.
After my most recent labs in March, I asked to try some liothyronine, but my doctor wanted to add 25 mcg of levothyroxine instead. I dose all of my thyroid meds in the morning.
I was just starting to feel like I was possibly getting some relief because I felt warmer and had a little more energy, but now I have roaring hot flashes (although my basal body temp hasn’t changed), and I also have had terrible insomnia for the last couple of days. I’m wondering if I just need to change when I am dosing the levo and the NP, or get more vocal about trying liothyronine instead of the synthetic. Thoughts on this? I get labs again in about two weeks.
Recent labs as of 3/24/21:
TSH 0.11 (range 0.45-5.33)
FT4 0.5 (0.61-1.12)
FT3 3.3 (2.5-3.9)
Testosterone 156 (<75) *I feel better at this level, and my hubby appreciates it, too!
B-12 397 (180-914)
I would welcome any insight or advice on other tests to request. Thank you so much.
Janie Bowthorpe
There’s a lot to say to you that I hope you can understand.
Normally, if someone is only on a measly dose of 75 mg of NDT, and that’s horribly underdosed, I would have said that we would always raise the product from that and get optimal. Optimal is a free T3 in the upper part of the range and a free T4 around mid-range, plus maintaining a low rt3.
But that’s not going to work. First, NP has been repeatedly recalled. It’s the worst NDT to be on when it comes to being recalled along with Naturothoid and WP – they were also recalled. They all three became problematic.
Second, when any of us are underdosed like you’ve been, the risk goes up there’s going to be a cortisol problem as a result of being underdosed. And when you say you now have insomnia, that’s a clue that you have high cortisol around bedtime. And no telling what’s going on the other times of the day. That’s where we order and do a saliva test to find out what’s going on: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/
Third, even if none of the above were true, but for you they probably are, it was never about adding T4 to NDT. Doctors constantly make that mistake. NDT is already 80% T4. So.. because when one is underdosed, they can see their cortisol go up too high in response, that causes rising rt3. And adding T4 to NDT when there’s rising rt3 means rt3 is going to go even higher. That only makes us more and more hypo since rt3 is an inactive hormone.
I can tell you what I would do if your situation had been mine, and then you can decide for you. I would practically demand a prescription for T3 from the doctor. If he or she wouldn’t give it to me, they would be fired and I would find a better doctor to give it.
Once I got the T3 I would ditch the NP and also greatly lower the T4, since the risk is now much higher that it’s been converting to rt3. And PS, from being underdosed, the risk is now high that one’s iron is falling, and that also pushes rt3 up. Doctors don’t get any of this either.
I would also immediately test the four iron labs (iron, percent saturation, tibc, and ferritin) and rt3. And again if the doctor refuses to order those, another reason to be fired. Those labs can also be tested from clicking on where you see Ulta Labs on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork
This is a page to use to compare your lab results to where healthy people would fall: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
And once on that t3 (of which doctors usually prescribe a measly 5 micrograms, but in this case would be okay), with a lowered t4, we start raising the T3 a little at a time every week. Until we treat the cortisol problem we have, there will come a point it will cause hyperlike symptoms, so we drop back down, until we treat the cortisol problem.
The above is all in a nutshell. It would pay to read the website and the book.
Janie Bowthorpe
Forgot to say to you that your free T3 result may represent pooling due to your cortisol problem. Again, another reason to do saliva cortisol testing and treat the problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling. Most doctors also don’t understand this.
Stacy Cizek
Thank you so much for your prompt reply. I have read through much of the site previously when my hubby was dealing with hypo issues, but have somehow failed to translate it to my own situation. What you said makes a lot of sense. Thank you, again.
Stacy C
UPDATE
Janie,
My doctor recently switched me from the above regimen to a compounded extended-release T4/T3 (125/15 mcg). My most recent labs were:
TSH: .4 (.45-5.33)
FT3 2.9 (2.5-3.9)
FT4 .7 (.611.12)
Testosterone 128.2 (<75)
Vit D 25 Hydroxy was 11.21 (30-100)
I'm working on getting vit D3 levels up with Vit D3 5000, MK7 supplement.
I am frustrated that I am still very low in range, so I am going to talk to a new NP at my doctor's office today. I feel I am still severely under-dosed as I haven't had a resolution of symptoms. I have not been able to do a saliva cortisol test due to cost, but am going to try to get one soon. I'm not sure whether to ask to go back on NDT, or ask for an increase in current compounded med, or as for supplemental liothyronine. I would love to hear any advice you have as I'm sure I am missing something.
Thank you!
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, those labs prove you are severely underdosed! It’s about raising every two weeks or less by 1/2 grain, slowing down in the 2-3 grain area to redo the labs. And remember is NOT just about the resolution of symptoms. We have experienced repeatedly over the years that we WILL feel better with the free T3 midrange…but it also will backfire, as midrange is not enough for our weekly, monthly yearly needs. The individuality is when it backfires. We have to get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And you’ll have to teach her that our low TSH when T3 is in our treatment is NOT, NOT the same as the low TSH with Graves disease. We do NOT get bone loss or heart problems. It just means there’s less need for the pituitary to release the TSH with T3 in our treatment.
We also have learned that it’s important to get the RT3.
Sarah
I suspect that the Fukushima incident has something to do with the medications being altered.
Janie Bowthorpe
Not sure how that would have done this. That was ten years ago. And if pigs had been affected, many are now dead anyway and their thyroids aren’t being used. But all we can do is speculate.
Bloomy
Does anyone have a good doctor that does telemedicine in any state or in the new york area, that’s reasonably priced since I’m paying out of pocket. I’m already on Armour, need a refill soon and thinking about hormone replacement. I’m also doing the hashimoto protocol so we will see how it all goes. If they do phone/computer consults then they can be in any state
Maria
Bloom,
Did you find a good online endo? I live in central NY state were there seem to be no enlightened ones and I am searching for a good one as well. Let me know if you hear of any leads and I will do the same.
Linden
Have you considered an osteopath? Mine is one. Endos HATE NDT, “It’s inconsistent, etc.
I also called three reputable compounding pharmacies in my area, and they all said that they weren’t compounding it anymore, because of sourcing problems… Availability, consistent potency, etc. They were all just disgusted.
I’m beyond frustrated.
Michelle Bercier
Hello,
Preface, I live in Winnipeg, MB, Canada.
I am almost 50 years old, and have been on Synthoid medication since in my 20’s. I went off the medication for a few years in my late 30’s and then went back on again. Outside of losing weight when I went on the medication, I had no side effects until the last couple years – I have been noticing an extreme amount of hair loss. My doctor referred me to a dermatologist who told me I had frontal fibrosing alopecia. I am using a steroid treatment for that, but it has done nothing. My hair loss has been increasing even more the last couple months. I can’t believe how much hair ends up in the tub every time I shower. I am losing my mind over this. I feel like at this rate I will be bald in about a year.
I get my bloodwork done every 6 months. My dermatologist recommended that my doctor lower my Synthroid medication, which my doctor did, but that seems to have increase the hair loss.
I want to make an appointment for more blood work and I need to specifically ask my doctor what levels I want tested, could someone here please guide me on what I should be asking for, keeping in mind I live in Canada, and there are certain tests that we can’t get done here.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Michelle. Lots of patients over the years have reported that being on nothing but T4 can cause a return of hypo, and the latter causes absorption issues, thus low iron which can cause the hair loss. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron This is why we learned years ago that we need T3 with that T4, and to become optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janey G
I have a virtual visit with my doctor tomorrow, who’s been very willing to work with me on information I’ve brought to him. I hate I didn’t think to research here until tonight. Any input you could offer would be appreciated.
It took forever to get my levels to stabilize. I thought they had stabilized for awhile, but I just wrote my labs down in preparation for this virtual visit tomorrow and it appears I’ve been in a slow decline for awhile. I can’t remember the last time I could think – or speak – well. My focus is shot. I’m forgetting things I used to never forget. Everything is hard. So bad, I went and had an evaluation for Alzheimer’s. He said it’s definitely not that. Praise the Lord! But…
I’m only 55. My oldest is getting married in May. I need my brain to work!
As I look over the past 4 years, it looks like my levels were really only stable for about a year with FT3 at 3.4-3.9 (2.0-4.4 pg/mL range) and FT4 1.26-1.44 (0.82-1.77 ng/dL range).
FT3/FT4 respectively:
11/28/18: 3.4/1.26
4/18/19: 3.9/1.29
10/29/19: 3.9/1.44
In December of 2019, my FT3 dropped back down to 3.3 and has hovered there while my FT4 has bounced around…
12/27/19: 3.3/1.17
But these ranges were different:
FT3 2.18-3.98 pg/mL
FT4 0.76-1.46 ng/dL
3/24/20: 3.4/1.35
10/26/20: 3.3/1.52
2/3/21: 3.1/1.25
With this last set of labs, I also convinced him to run RT3. Apparently they weird doing that pan because insurance with covering it. Anyway, that result was 18.4 with a “normal” range of 9.2-24.1
Here are the dates RT3 has previously been checked, along with the results – followed by FT3/FT4
11/28/17 13.5 4.0/.76
5/26/17 14.9 2.9/1.00
3/31/17 10.8 2.8/.88
2/14/17 29.9 1.8/1.13 (this one seems to contraindicate the norm)
6/21/16 12.8 3.0/1.06 TSH 0.009
5/13/16 9.2 1.8/0.51 TSH 7.340
5/5/16 12.2 1.8/0.53 TSH 1.00
4/21/16, no RT3, but 4.9/1.06 with 0.005 TSH
4/5/16: 3.8/0.91
2/2/16: 4.2/1.52 with TSH 0.005
None of the labs from 2016 make sense to me.
With the exception of three times (0.005, 0.017, and 0.014), my TSH has been at <0.006 or <0.005 since the 6/21/16 lab.
They ran antibodies again on 10/29/20:
Thyroglobulin antibody<1.0 (0.0-0.9)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <9 (0-34)
I do have hemochromatosis mutation of homogeneous C282y. Up until the last year, I’ve had normal to high hemoglobin, iron, and sat with low ferritin. In the last year, about 6 years after my hysterectomy, all measures are confidently high normal to high above range.
I do have an MTHFR mutation, but I was told it was the mild one that wouldn’t cause issues.
From what I gather from reading your site, it appears the most severe hemochromatosis mutation didn’t cause issues until recently, but the MTHFR may have been undermining me all along.
I started off on NP, but they couldn’t get it right, so switched me to levothyroxine and liothyronine to have more flexibility with dosages. I’m currently on 100 of Levo with a total of 15 Lio (10 in am with Levo and another 5 at night). I’ve seen people talking about having more success with compounded slow-release liothyronine. After reading your site, it looks like I need to check my local pharmacy’s sourcing first.
I’m tired of not feeling well. And note I’ve got these atrocious bags under my eyes and dry eyes to boot – I didn’t notice them until I tried to wear contacts. That was a nightmare.
Any help you can offer will be most appreciated!
Thank you I have a virtual visit with my doctor tomorrow, who’s been very willing to work with me on information I’ve brought to him. I hate I didn’t think to research here until tonight. Any input you could offer would be appreciated.
It took forever to get my levels to stabilize. I thought they had stabilized for awhile, but I just wrote my labs down in preparation for this virtual visit tomorrow and it appears I’ve been in a slow decline for awhile. I can’t remember the last time I could think – or speak – well. My focus is shot. I’m forgetting things I used to never forget. Everything is hard. So bad, I went and had an evaluation for Alzheimer’s. He said it’s definitely not that. Praise the Lord! But…
I’m only 55. My oldest is getting married in May. I need my brain to work!
As I look over the past 4 years, it looks like my levels were really only stable for about a year with FT3 at 3.4-3.9 (2.0-4.4 pg/mL range) and FT4 1.26-1.44 (0.82-1.77 ng/dL range).
FT3/FT4 respectively:
11/28/18: 3.4/1.26
4/18/19: 3.9/1.29
10/29/19: 3.9/1.44
In December of 2019, my FT3 dropped back down to 3.3 and has hovered there while my FT4 has bounced around…
12/27/19: 3.3/1.17
But these ranges were different:
FT3 2.18-3.98 pg/mL
FT4 0.76-1.46 ng/dL
3/24/20: 3.4/1.35
10/26/20: 3.3/1.52
2/3/21: 3.1/1.25
With this last set of labs, I also convinced him to run RT3. Apparently they weird doing that pan because insurance with covering it. Anyway, that result was 18.4 with a “normal” range of 9.2-24.1
Here are the dates RT3 has previously been checked, along with the results – followed by FT3/FT4
11/28/17 13.5 4.0/.76
5/26/17 14.9 2.9/1.00
3/31/17 10.8 2.8/.88
2/14/17 29.9 1.8/1.13 (this one seems to contraindicate the norm)
6/21/16 12.8 3.0/1.06 TSH 0.009
5/13/16 9.2 1.8/0.51 TSH 7.340
5/5/16 12.2 1.8/0.53 TSH 1.00
4/21/16, no RT3, but 4.9/1.06 with 0.005 TSH
4/5/16: 3.8/0.91
2/2/16: 4.2/1.52 with TSH 0.005
None of the labs from 2016 make sense to me.
With the exception of three times (0.005, 0.017, and 0.014), my TSH has been at <0.006 or <0.005 since the 6/21/16 lab.
They ran antibodies again on 10/29/20:
Thyroglobulin antibody<1.0 (0.0-0.9)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <9 (0-34)
I do have hemochromatosis mutation of homogeneous C282y. Up until the last year, I’ve had normal to high hemoglobin, iron, and sat with low ferritin. In the last year, about 6 years after my hysterectomy, all measures are confidently high normal to high above range.
I do have an MTHFR mutation, but I was told it was the mild one that wouldn’t cause issues.
From what I gather from reading your site, it appears the most severe hemochromatosis mutation didn’t cause issues until recently, but the MTHFR may have been undermining me all along.
I started off on NP, but they couldn’t get it right, so switched me to levothyroxine and liothyronine to have more flexibility with dosages. I’m currently on 100 of Levo with a total of 15 Lio (10 in am with Levo and another 5 at night). I’ve seen people talking about having more success with compounded slow-release liothyronine. After reading your site, it looks like I need to check my local pharmacy’s sourcing first.
I’m tired of not feeling well. And note I’ve got these atrocious bags under my eyes and dry eyes to boot – I didn’t notice them until I tried to wear contacts. That was a nightmare.
Any insight you can offer will be most appreciated!
Thank you!
Janie Bowthorpe
Too much for me to read and respond to! But I can tell you are slightly too heavy with T4 with too low an amount of T3. This is our goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And for example, if we compare to desiccated thyroid, one grain is 38mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. Two grains is 76mcg T4 and 18mcg T3. Three grains is 114mcg T4 and 27mcg T3.
Joann
I recently tried switching from NP to Tirosint/Liothyronine and after a month or so I began with terrible headaches/migraines within 30 minutes of the meds. I stopped taking them completely and headaches stopped. I tried taking it at night, head starts pounding so bad cant sleep. I tried splitting the dose. I feel so out of it and unable to function. Ive been on WP, Naturethroid, then NP for years. Developed many of the symptoms described by others so decided to switch. Initially seemed ok, less puffy, more clear headed. I do have other health conditions making some symptoms hard to distinguish but also more important to keep thyroid optimal and ruled out as a contributor. My doc is not sure what to do and neither am I. Over 10 years Hashimotos. If NDT’s arent working, Tirosint is causing me so many headaches what would be another option? I was on 210mcg of NP.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your answers may be in this informative page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Emily J
I believe I may have finally gotten the right dose of NDTs, after many increases Each time I raised the dose, started to feel better, then CRASH! Again and again… The crash came faster and more severe each time it happened to me.
I started out on a very low 16.25 mg of WP Thyroid in early 2018, finally getting prescribed 120 mg of Armour Thyroid in September 2020. At that time, I was Ok for a bit, even had one week where my energy level seemed great. The next week, CRASH, can’t focus, couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, horrible depression. I got my blood tests again in late October right after I noticed the crash.
Blood tests were at
Free T4: 0.8 (range 0.8-1.8)
Free T3: 3.3 (range 2.3-4.2)
(Note: the blood test results I had from the tests takes just before WP was recalled, on 130 mg were just slightly lower: Free T4 0.7, Free T3: 3.2)
But still they were not high enough, as I had just crashed again! Sadly, someone from my doctor’s office called and said I was on the right dose and they wouldn’t change it right then. My depressed, suicidal thoughts made it impossible to attempt to disagree, even though I KNEW I wasn’t o.k. (Really, I fell so far so fast this time!) So I increased my dose on my own, which I could do bc I had lots of the recalled WP left, and I ALWAYS make sure to refill my 30 day prescription as early as I can, which is after 26 days so I get a little bit more. (I’ve panicked a lot about running out of my NDTs because time has shown how often it is unavailable.)
4 weeks of taking 120 mg Armour, 65 mg WP, feeling fantastic! Then I ran out of WP and switched to
3 weeks of taking 180 mg Armour, still feel fantastic, except for 1) I am way hotter than everyone else and 2) liquid diarrhea every day. I figure those were hyper- symptoms so I lower the dose to
6 weeks of 160 mg Armour, maybe a little less energy but the overheatedness and the diarrhea are gone.
Current labs (6 weeks later):
Free T4: 1.1 (range 0.8-1.8)
Free T3: 3.8 (range 2.3-4.2)
I hope my Doctor will prescribe me the 160 mg dose that has been working for me, because I don’t think it’s a standard amount. Fortunately, I found a doctor who is willing to work with me and listen to my symptoms, who also knows to ignore the suppressed TSH, which is always out of range for someone who is taking NDTs. (I fired three doctors along the way. That was a terrible period of my life, knowing I had Hashimoto’s and not getting treatment.)
Does anyone have experience with taking a little too much NDTs? Are the diarrhea and overheating the symptoms I should look for? I did not notice any heart palpitations or anything like that. Or is it foolish to not request the higher 180 mg dose, seeing as I was feeling great except for the heat and diarrhea?
I feel like I am the textbook example everything you say on this site! Optimal must be T3 upper part of range and T4 in the middle. Bad doctors try to put them blame on us. The sad truth that when we are really feeling so crappy, it is just about impossible to try to advocate for ourselves.
By the way, I have noticed that I generally feel good on a dose that was increased after four weeks, but by six weeks, the hormone stabilizes and that is when I begin to feel bad if the dose is still too low.
Thank you for all the information! It has helped me so much!
Janie Bowthorpe
Your labs look an awful like you are pooling. Check this information out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
StarrD
Hi, Emily. If it were me, I definitely would’ve lowered my thyroid dose if I saw I was getting
hotter than everyone else and the liquid diarrhea, even I wasn’t getting heart palps or
chest pain, etc. I was first diagnosed with hyperthyroidism (Grave’s Disease), and
those symptoms are like red flags my original thyroid doctor would look for, if I was
either getting too much hormone from my own gland, or later on, too much hormone
from the thyroid-replacement hormone pills I’d need to take. I think it may be possible
to get such symptoms if you are super-low thyroid (I think I’ve been in that situation, before),
but it’s probably a lot more common to get those symptoms if your thyroid level is too high.
Keep working with a good doctor on this. I know it’s hard, but hang in there!
Emily J
Thank you Janie and StarrD for your input. Janie’s response, which indicated that I might be pooling, made me look further. I am almost certain I have the MTHFR mutation. My iron labs showed higher than normal iron with ultra low ferritin. Here are my iron labs:
Total Iron: 208 (40-190 range)
Iron Binding Capacity: 347 mcg/dL
% Saturation: 60% (range 16-45)
Ferritin: 22 ng/mL (range 16-232)
Assuming I have the MTHFR mutation, 10 days ago, I stared supplementing with Vitamin D3 10,000 IU, Methylated B-12 2,500 mcg (yes, this is very high but I’ve previously responded well to a Vitamin B-12 injection), folate 5-MTHF 400 mcg, milk thistle 175X3 mg, Vitamin C 750 mg, Calcium 1000 mg, magnesium 400 mg, zinc 15 mg, and a liquid methylated multi-vitamin formulated for hair growth. I am doing my best to avoid “enriched” foods due to their folic acid content.
I noticed an improvement within a few days of this regimen and I woke up with energy for the first time in SEVEN years yesterday. It’s been a long struggle, but I feel I am finally going to get my life back.
THANK YOU! Seriously, I couldn’t have done it without you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Pooling isn’t about high iron. It’s about T3 going high in the blood due to not making it to the cells due to a cortisol problem.
But glad you started looking into your high iron and MTHFR issue. 🙂
Emily J
Thanks again! I misunderstood, I thought pooling was because of either cortisol or iron issues but I just checked again and yes, you only said cortisol. I was not able to convince my endocrinologist to give me a saliva cortisol test. He said there are too frequent issues with the collection of the saliva tests so he only gave me a script for the blood cortisol test. I live in one of the states where we can’t order the saliva test on our own.
I know you said blood cortisol tests are useless, but I will take the tests he wrote me anyway because it’s what I have. I will see my PCP in a few weeks and will see if they will give me the saliva cortisol test there.
I will do anything in my power to avoid the next crash!
Janie Bowthorpe
What your Endo said about saliva is one of the biggest pieces of BS I’ve heard in a long time. Lol. It’s like they create a total made-up lie to diss what they know nothing about.
Yes, do whatever you can to get that saliva testing done. A cortisol blood test is a waste of your blood, time and money. Even if your blood cortisol is one of those rare times that agrees with saliva, it’s only a one-time test. We need to know what’s going on at four key times, which saliva gives us.
Ron
I don’t see any reference to the Ancestral Supplements brand on here. Any feedback/experience for Hashimoto?
Janie Bowthorpe
Ron, it’s always up to you. But we have not seen ONE otc bovine work quite as well as a working NDT prescription…IF the prescription hasn’t gone south. lol. There are inherent problems, here or there.
sam
i read that it was tested and showed up high levels glyphosate i tried it a few years ago a few days .then stopped becuase read that. . has anyone tried forefront health . i tried 1 to 3 130 mg capsules
past 3 days and stomach hurts. it says is from new zealand raised cows but am wondering if this too is really from usa or argentina gmos fed cows anyone know? nutrimed s white color , thyrovanz and beofre them thryogold seem to hav e stopped working andi wonder if any of themare truly fomr new zealand pasture raised cows anyone know anything?
Janie Bowthorpe
Just beware of any brand of bovine thyroid. We’ve seen some, not all, patients find a rise in RT3 on it without having the main causes of rising RT3. We’ve also seen batches be different from each other. No brand is “better” than others. They all have to find a supplier, and there is no regulations on any supplier. No matter what brand, it may be wise to regularly pay attention to thyroid labs like free T4, free T3, and RT3.
Karen King
I’ve been on NP for 3 years and have seen no changes in its good results. I get mine from the Walmart pharmacy. It’s now time to get a 90-day refill. Should I schedule an appt with my (excellent) provider before I get the refill to see if she suggests some other med? What I’m getting in my bottle are still the plain Small round grayish tablets that smell a little but not much.
Janie Bowthorpe
You know, we do see a handful of people who think they are still doing good on what was rightly recalled, but their labs reveal they really weren’t dong good at all. Or they someone managed to still be on the pre-changed NP because the pharmacy had a large stock. All I can say is that if it was me, I’d definitely move over to what we know still works: Armour or T4/T3.
Tony
Hey Janie, I have also had major problems with Prescription NDT and Synthetic medicine (allergies). Maybe we can get a group us to organize a way back to normalcy. Anyway, I’m up for it if there is interest.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Tony. Are you sure you are having an allergic reaction? Carefully read this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie. Do you think that it is the end for NDT now as there are so many with problems?
Janie Bowthorpe
I don’t.
Kay Wood
I gave on NP as well about four months ago. Clearly the formula was changed then there was a problem with there too much T3 in some of the pills then too little. I would say whatever they (all of them) were using in the formulations for years stopped being available at least in the U.S.. When this kind of thing happens it’s best to say “we had a good run” and move on. I don’t believe there is any proof that those formulations included anything besides T4 and T3, we can get those elsewhere, so our goal should be to have those be as superior as possible. Like Tirosint. Insurance companies should not dictate what we can take. Companies making synthetics should be encouraged and rewarded for making clean products, meaning no unnecessary stuff, no cheap fillers, no allergens and no gluten. Let the NDT companies fall away, they also had a good run.
Kristen Williams
Hi Kay,
After stopping NDT did you switch to Tirosint? Or did you do a mix of Tirosint and T3 Cytomel? Also does anyone know if Tirisant comes in veggie capsule?
Thank you!
Joanne Seward
Hi Janie,
Had lab tests come back..0.034 TSH and T4 in normal range. She said slightly hyper as a result.
On a compounded formula of T4 40.8 mcg, T3 9
7mcg. M,W, F one / day, rest of week 2 / day. Hair thinning, short of breath not sure agree with hyper as she said. Yourv thoughts…
Going to do cortisol testing.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s never, ever about the TSH other than to diagnose hypopituitary. I would personally run as fast as I can from a doc like that. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie. I know you say people seem to like Thyreogland ftom Germany. Do you have any more positive information about it please?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Paul. I haven’t collected what I’ve seen here and there, but have in fact seen positive comments over the years.
Diane Valenti
How does one order Thyroegland from Germany? I am in California. Thank you!
Barbara W.
Yes, Jamie, how do we order Throegland, from Germany? I too live in California. ThyroGold has been out of stock for some time. I have maybe 70 days worth of ThyroGold. What now Jamie? Where should I go? If Big Pharma, what do you think of Synthroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Barbara. You can always get a prescription for Armour or T4/T3. They work great. And here’s the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Diane Valenti
I emailed the compounding pharmacy that makes Thyreogland. They need a prescription from your doc and they can only ship within the EU. So you’d still need to find someone there who could receive it from the pharmacy and ship it to you.
Dawn
Hi Janie, I hope you are doing well. What are your thoughts on NP returning to its original form? A while back I received an email from Acella stating they are working on correcting the medication. Would you trust it at this point, or is there still the tainted medication in the pharmacies?
Also, which brand of Cytomel is best? I have Celiac and cannot metabolize many fillers, so the less the better, and gluten free.
Thank you so much for all of your help and guidance! Let’s hope 2021 is a positive turn about!
Janie Bowthorpe
I can only speak for me, but with what I know personally, plus have read, my disappointment in Acella is huge and I don’t trust them at all.
Both Cytomel and Sigma Pharm seem to be quality T3 products based on patient reports. I have also used them and like either.This doesn’t take away that other brands may be okay.
Dawn
Thank you for your input!
Cheryl
I was just prescribed 30mg Thyroid NP by Acella. I have never been on thyroid meds before, but my naturopath said I have a slightly sluggish thyroid. She prescribed this along with some hormones. I googled Thyroid NP and the first thing I see is all kinds of recall stuff about it, but I’m confused how I got a prescription filled yesterday on something that is apparently recalled?? Now I’m questioning whether to start taking it or not? I would so appreciate any advice you could give!
Janie Bowthorpe
Check this out, Cheryl…all of it, and your answer may be clear: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2020/09/20/2020-the-year-of-desiccated-thyroid-recalls/
As to why your naturopath prescribed it–he or she is not informed. As far as why you got your prescription filled…some pharmacies may still have the stock of the ruined NP…and perhaps look at money before the fact of a recall. You may be able to return it and give them the FDA link in the above article about the recall.
Sera
Any knowledge about the compound brand Thyreogland?
Janie Bowthorpe
From Germany? People so far seem to like it.
Sera
Yep from Munich .. supposed to be in capsules and without any binders (according to my doctor) – just can’t seem to find anyone with experience on it, so great to hear that’s your understanding. Thank you
Mary McK
It is such a relief to find this page. I was/am caught in the NDT maelstrom – my NDT (NatureThroid) recalled, alternative (NP) tasted disgusting and made me nauseous, thence to compounded NDT, after a month the compounding pharmacy couldn’t get the porcine powder for the foreseeable future. Now I’m on Armour since about a week. In 15 years since my Hashimoto’s diagnosis I have never been optimal or felt well. I wondered if I just kept developing new unrelated health problems like mold sickness, or depression, or what-have-you. This page gives me hope that it’s ALL THYROID and I can feel better. Heart palpitations and feeling out of breath when I have to climb one flight of stairs or walk up a hill is something I’m desperate to address. For some reason my providers at the integrative medicine clinic seem to look only at TSH, even though they test free T3 & T4, and if the TSH goes low they lower my dose of NDT, so I never get my free T3/free T4 to an optimal place. Now I’m armed with what others have discovered, so I can ask for a higher dose. Any thoughts about how much to raise the dose at one time? I’m on 75 mg Armour, my Free T4 is 1.0 (range 0.8-1.8); Free T3 is 2.8 (range 2.3-4.2). TSH 0.3 (range 0.4-4.5). Thanks for any tips you can give me and thank you so much for this site. I have ordered your Hashimoto’s book 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
We raise by 1/2 grain every two weeks. Then when were are in the 2-3 grain area, we retest the free T3 and free T4. This is our goal https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Might want to also test RT3. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Janie Bowthorpe
This is our goal, which only 75mg puts you far from: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal It helps a lot to achieve this.
Glad you got the Hashimoto’s: Taming the Beast book. It’s got solid information as well as five chapters which are totally patient-to-patient.
Alana
Tried Armour this week after I ran out of Naturethroid –I hated it. Was having tons of side effects and feeling very hypo. I am on compound TR-T3 (5mcg). Talked to the pharmacist at the compound pharmacy about my options. I am starting compounded dessicated thyroid tomorrow. The pharmacist said Armour has a lot of fillers and this is what I believe I was having side effects from. I will report back.
Janie Bowthorpe
Two reasons for feeling awful on what is working for the majority: staying on too low a dose, too long, and Armour revealing a cortisol and/or iron problem. Check this informational page out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Having a reaction to fillers is a slight possibility, but not common.
Sarah
Hi, thank you for this site. I was on naturethroid for years, and had to just move to NP thyroid by Acella. I took 90mg of naturethroid so was prescribed 90mg of the NP thyroid . I’ve taken half a dose each day for 4 days and felt so terrible that I had to stop. I was exhausted, felt drugged and tired, slightly nauseous, and then at 4pm felt really shaky and cold. The doctor told me to stop, said it would get worse not better if I carried on. I’d love to know if the side effects I had are common and/or are to do with the issues Acella are having. My doctor is now only able to give me the option of synthroid and Tirosint because of all the recalls. Would love opinions.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sarah, NP Thyroid was recalled and for good reasons. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2020/09/20/2020-the-year-of-desiccated-thyroid-recalls/
Brenda
Because of the recall, I just switched this morning to Euthrox (walmart generic for levothyroxine) (137mcg) and generic Liothyronine (Sigma) 1/2 (50mcg) from WP Thyroid 3 grain 5 days and 4 grain 2 days. I have been tired for a couple of years but my doc and I concur that my numbers were all good. I had been on Cytomel and Levoxyl before I switched to Westhroid over 10 years ago. And had to change because when the generic came available my insurance charged full price for Cytomel and the generic did not work. Westhroid was much cheaper.
Before my doctor gave me the new prescriptions, I looked up the ingredients for the different generic formulas of liothyronine and Sigma was the closest to cytomel. And my mail in pharmacy has sigma. I took my first dose this morning and I swear, about 3 hours later I felt more clear in my mind. ?????
Jenny
I am trying to be an advocate for myself, but I am still learning and therefore prone to screw up, which I don’t want to do. Here are my lab results from a week ago:
TSH 0.58m IU/L (this number has decreased each of the last three years, was 1.73 at its highest in 2017)
FT4 1.10 ng/dL
FT3 2.81pg/mL
RT3 16.2 ng/dL
TPO AB 271 IU/mL (dx Hashimotos in 2009, probably have had it longer)
Vitamin D 29.5 ng/mL (started supplement earlier this week)
Steady at 112 mcg Levothyroxine for about 9 years. I have been on AIP diet for 10 weeks, digestive issues resolved but no change to extreme fatigue/exhaustion & brain fog. Based on my labs I believe I need to add T3; my problem is that my GP is not well versed in thyroid issues (although I believe she may be receptive because she ran all of those labs at my own request with no pushback at all) and I live in a rural area without access to a specialist. I am at a total loss as to whether I should try Armour or just stick with Levo and add Cytomel. I would like to try Armour but my doctor may not know what dosage to use. I have read so many pros and cons to both that I am at a point that I just want to bury my head in the sand. Thoughts?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Jenny. Either T4/T3, or Armour, are working great if you get optimal. Check out this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And because you’ve been on nothing but T4 for so long, you might want to look into the information on iron results and cortisol: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol
Jenny
Thanks, Janie. I am going to ask for Armour. Regarding the math: I would think it would be advisable to start at 1 grain; however that only provides 38 mcg of T4. Would I need to continue to also take Levothyroxine at a lower dose (75 mcg) in order to continue getting my 112 daily dose of T4?
Janie Bowthorpe
Just an FYI so you can decide: most of us do not add T4 to Armour. Armour is already 80% T4 anyway. We just learned early on to start on one grain (to allow our body to get used to the direct T3 in it) then raise approximately every two weeks by 1/2 grain, slowing down in the 2-3 grain areas and redoing the free T4 and free T3. A lot of what we learned is in chapter 2 of the updated revision STTM book (just ignore the part in that chapter that said NP Thyroid was still good–that was written before patients started complaining about it, then the recall). Here’s that book: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/ It’s all info you can share with your doctor, too.
Also, we found it wise to test iron and cortisol (here’s information to read and decide: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol) because if either are off, it causes problems when raising.
Jenny
This is so helpful. Thank you! .
Chenelle Hitchcock
hi Janie, thanks for your extensive information regarding the downfall of NDT. I’ve been taking in NDT since 2012 and I have noticed a gradual decline in its effectiveness-I go to a compounding pharmacy in Australia. And I’ve never question their source – always believing it was armour thyroid. In the last six months the colour has changed from white to grey. And the potency doesn’t seem as strong. And I’m also noticing some unusual and worrying side-effects. I called my pharmacist today and asked them where they sourced it from one pharmacist told me it was Armour thyroid. The next one said it was from Europe somewhere. I insisted they find out where the somewhere was in Europe. They called me back and said Spain. I asked them which company. They couldn’t tell me. I insisted they Find out which company they get the desiccated thyroid extract is coming from. They say that it is regulated- because we have the therapeutic goods administration TGA here in Australia -so they say it is good quality. However I have noticed a change. Apparently everyone in Australia is sourcing their thyroid extract from compounded from Spain. I’ve decided that I no longer have faith in a product that I don’t know where it comes from and its potency is declining and I’m getting side-effects. So I’m going to trial T4 T3. Thank you Chenelle Hitchcock
JrBor
I tried to add 10mcg T3 by Greenstone embossed with KPI 115 but it felt like I was taking nothing, absolutely no therapeutic benefit. The next day I took 1 grain of NP which has 9.5 mcg of T3 and felt it within the hour. Improvement in mood, appetite and energy. Is there something wrong with brands of synthetic T3? Is there one more superior than the other?
Janie Bowthorpe
It seems to be individual. I’m using greenstone and feel fine. I do prefer Cytomel or Sigma Pharm. Probably because greenstone is cheaper for a pharmacy, they will sneakily switch you to greenstone. So you have to keep an eye on that before you walk out of the store.
JrBor
Thanks for the tip. I’ve never tried the name brand Cytomel but I understand Greenstone is a subsidiary of Pfizer, the makers of Cytomel. Do you happen to know if Cytomel is also manufactured my King Pharmaceuticals or if it has different embossing on the Cytomel pills? Obviously, I wouldn’t want to pay name brand prices if it’s really the same pill being supplied as a generic!
I thought it was odd to take 10 mcg of the greenstone and feel absolutely no therapeutic benefit, not even a body temp increase. I’ll see if anyone chimes in about other brands. Thanks again
Kimberly Rozanski
I am getting ready to switch from Euthyrox 125mcg to Armour.
Also, where are people ordering Armour online? How long should I take Armour before having labs run?
Nancy H.
I just started Armour Thyroid 3 days ago, I have been on Tirosint for the past 3 months and Levothyroxine for 27 years prior. After the loss of my mom last Summer I started having isssues with my thyroid. The doctor added Cytomel and I developed even worse insomnia than I already had and I was extremely heat intolerant so I had to stop taking it. I also found out I have sleep apnea. She took me off T3 and tested me a month after and I have gone full blown hypothyroid again. I begged her to let me try Armour, thank GOD she let me. Only after 3 days I feel like a new person, I have slept through the night, something I haven’t done in 10 years. I don’t want to believe it’s just “adrenaline”…… I’m hopeful and praying that something will finally work for me. I get tested again in a month, keeping my hopes high and my fingers crossed.
Tomer
Hey! about to start with the NDT from Munich Klösterl-Apotheke “Thyreogland 40”. after being on T3 only.
Anyone has any knowledge about the potency and current efficiency of Thyreogland?
Shimpent should arrive tomorrow.
Dawn
Can you please comment on how you do on this? I’m not sure I want to try any more NDT’s until this debacle is over with. I did try Tru Thyroid from Thailand and it did not work. Thanks very much.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi just wondered how the Thyreogland from Germany is performing as I am thinking of buying it instead of Armour?
Janie Bowthorpe
Positive reports, so far.
Megan
Finding this information is so helpful so thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. I thought I was depressed for the past few months (blaming this crazy year) due to my extreme exhaustion and all the other horrible physical symptoms I’ve been experiencing. Now I’m positive it’s my hypo back due to the recall of my NDT. Sigh. While I wait for my doctor to get back to me, can anyone recommend a good OTC support that might help ease symptoms a little until my doctor figures out next steps? I was taking NP.
Janie Bowthorpe
To alleviate depression? 5-htp is a good one and in higher amounts than the bottle says for some of us.
Kinshasa
I do NOT recommend Ashwaganda to be taken concurrently with 5HTP. Use one or the other.
I had good results with both 5HTP and Ashwaganda but Ashwaganda worked better on my mood.
5HTP provided better quality sleep although I did not get more actual hours of rest sleep. I noticed while on it, That my mood was still “crunchy” and sad.
Ashwaganda helped a great deal with sleep and mood.
Brands matter. Like anything else, I had to titrate the doses (within label guidelines) to find what works best.
The brand Gaia works best for Ashwaganda for me.
The brand NOW for 5HTP works best in my family’s experience.
Again, please note: I am not recommending the use of these supplements together.
Janie Bowthorpe
Actually, most brands have been fine, as proven by so many patient reported experiences. And there are some who have used both together without any problems. So if you don’t want to put them together, that’s fine. But they have been fine together for others.
Karla
Hello Janie – and anyone else with thoughts regarding Nutri-Meds bovine thyroid supplement. I know it says this has been around since you started this blog, Janie…and by the way, THANK YOU for everything you do with this blog and your information and books!! This website saved my life years ago, and I’m so very appreciative of you and this community!!
I have been on a full replacement of thyroid for many years, and have been through the issues with NDT since the change in Armour, then Erfa and now NP – UGH! DISGUSTED indeed, Janie! I could not agree with you more!! I take about 3 grains of NP and have been feeling worse and worse, and yes, the new horrid smell is awful!! Do you know of any people on Nutri-Meds Bovine, who are taking a full replacement with no thyroid function – and this is successful for them? Their website reviews are great, but not specific enough to know if anyone is taking a full replacement. I’m a little scared to try to change over to this, but also so incredibly frustrated with Big Pharma and the issues that keep happening – and not feeling great anyway – and I’d love to be free of needing a pharmacy altogether! It seems like the Nutri-Meds products have been around for a while and are more stable. If you know of any reports – or anyone who has tried Nutri-Meds themselves, please do share. Also, I know their website says there is no way to convert amounts of their product to other thyroid medications, but wondering if there is a guesstimate (like there is for THYROGOLD) of conversion? I’d be really curious if anyone has a story about converting over to this from NDT, and how that went for you, especially if anyone who needs full replacement of thyroid can comment? THANK YOU!!
Also, is there such a thing as T3 supplements OTC, or are they all prescription? All the BEST to you all!
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi I have tried Nutra meds but unfortunately they didn’t work at all for me and just like current NDT on sale, my hypo symptoms returned with a vengeance.
Janie Bowthorpe
Paul, I have a feeling you still need to read this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Karla
Thank you, Paul! What are you taking now? Janie makes a good point, it is important to get to optimal levels.
Janie, do you have any information/advice regarding Nutri Meds? Thank you!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Nutri Meds has been around a long time. It used to be quite weak. But this year, there seem to be a body of people who are reporting doing well on it. And as has been explained to Paul, we have to attempt to get our frees optimal before deciding something doesn’t work.
Karla
Thank you, Janie!! Understood. All the best!! ~Karla
Paul Portlock-Smith
Struggling with what is left of my Thiroid from Thailand plus Levo. Praying that NDT will return to the once excellent medication again.
Nancy
I have no thyroid and was on 2.75 grains (178.75mg) of Nature-Throid using three tablets. I could tell that the NDT was weaker, so I added Nutri-Meds. I ordered the 130mg tablet. I took the Nutri-Med tablet first since it would not split evenly and then added NDT slowly as recommended. I cut my NDT tablets in half and kept a record of the number of mg. I ended up with 130 mg of Nutri-Med plus 89.375 of Nature-Throid. For over a year my numbers were optimal. I hope this helps.
Lorene Koller
I was on NatureThyroid until it was recalled. Then my pharmacy substituted N P thyroid with 2 1/2 pills a day on bottle. I took only 2 pills a day. After a few months, I had lost 55 lbs, had a temperature of 101.3, pulse high, my intestines were close to being nonfunctional . I was very weak and nauseated. Went for a blood test which showed too much T3 or T4. Cut my taking NP to one day, and two days later started feeling better. Weaned off NP all together just before they recalled it. Have felt better—nausea gone and intestines functioning. My recent blood tests are scary though:
TSH 70.98
T4. 3.9 L
Free T4 index 1.0 L
TGB. 31.5 H
Thyroid peroxide antibodies. 13
T3. Total. 72
T3 free 1.8
T4 free .5
I don’t know where to go for help
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Lorene. I’m not clear what 2 pills mean. Pills are made into different amounts per pill, like 60mg, 30mg, etc. And the vast majority of us are unable to just get off our thyroid meds, thus a TSH of 70. FYI: total T4, total T3, and Free T4 index are useless for our needs and a waste of our blood, time and money.
L. C.
Hi Janie, I could use some help. I am on Armour of 1.5 grains. I tried to go up to 2 grains, and I felt better but then my blood pressure was out of control, so I dropped back down to the 1.5 grains. My labs before I tried the 2 grains reflected I had room to move up a dose, but I also did not take my medication that morning before my blood test. Normally I take my Armour before my blood test, and test in the afternoon.
I did go through a period of extreme stress for one year due to a spouse’s deployment. Since then I have gained a ton of weight and it won’t come off despite exercise and eating healthy, and I still have joint swelling at times. I also don’t feel like my face looks normal–like my eyes are a bit bulgy and they also feel swollen at times.
Typically when my labs are tested I have a low FT4 and decent FT3 and completely suppressed TSH. I do seem to feel better when my FT4 is a little closer to mid-range, but it seems like it is not in that spot very often and I don’t know how to get it there, especially since my blood pressure was out of control when I attempted to go up to 2 grains. My endo is pretty good–she treats on both labs and symptoms–but when I mentioned adrenal fatigue she said that was basically not possible. :/
I am assuming you are going to tell me my adrenals are a mess…. But I have a stressful job and three children, and I am also a person whose nature it is to worry over things, so I just do not know where I would even begin to calm down my adrenals (and no, I will not quit my job because I also love it). I don’t even really know where to begin with adrenal fatigue and how to fix it, if that’s the problem. And, even if I could begin to fix it, will I even be able to tell? I need some results in order to stay motivated.
Sorry. That’s a lot of information, but I am feeling so lost.
Thanks in advance.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me Because it sounds like it’s revealing an iron and/or cortisol problem.
jeffrey
I think calming/fixing/ however we word it, an adrenal/cortisol problem is hard to do when “our foot is constantly on the gas pedal”. That has been my experience, many pieces to the pie also. Resting during the day for 30 min on your back (even in the middle of a shit storm), Adrenal support herbs…I use Gaia Adrenal Health, nice combo and they are liquid caps so I chew them and let it absorb for a few mins before I swallow. And then we have diet…what are you eating, when are you eating it. Dr Christianson has some informative youtube vids on “carb cycling” for adrenal reset. I use all these and have over the years which brings me to not only optimal on 1 grain of Armour but overall vibrant health, I’m always having to tweak things as the body/enviroment/stress levels are always in flux, its life…
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie and others. Has anybody heard of a medication called Natural Sources raw thyroid. I can’t tolerate synthetic t3 but need natural desdicated products that work and are available. I have heard good things about Natural Sources raw thyroid but wondered how much I need to take? Any advice please? I was taking between 2.5 and 3 grains of Armour but here in the U.K it proved hugely expensive.
LC
I contacted a pharmacy in Thailand that sells thyroid s and says it’s in stock. They told me there are new custom rules for the us, which requires a prescription and giving your ssn. They can provide the script but I would have to give my ssn. They said they can ship to other countries without this requirement. They said I could have it shipped to some one in Canada or the UK for example. I’m not going to risk giving my ssn but I thought this was interesting and I’m not sure I trust it although they have a lot of good reviews. Supposedly manufacturing has not stopped but is limited. Just thought I’d share this interesting find.
housemaid
If the Thai company wants your SS number, then you know it is a scam. SS numbers are never supposed to be used for ID, so Customs would never require that. I am doing better on the 3 grains of Thyroid-S than I was on the 2 grains Armour plus 1 grain of Thyroid-S. I guess my prior temporary dizziness was from something else, because I have not been sick on the Thai pills. In spite of the slight pee smell and the many unknown fillers they put into Thyroid-S, I will keep on taking what I have, but not buy any more Thyroid-S now that the price has quadrupled. I have enough to last over a year and am hoping that my beloved WP goes back to what it used to be by that time.
Lisa P
I’m looking for a replacement for my WP Thyroid and was wondering if you had any thoughts or had heard anything good/bad about the supplements “GTA Forte II” (from Biotics Research) or “Thyroid” (from Priority One) [bovine glandular sourced from New Zealand with rice chelate as the only filler]? Thanks!
Ginger
I’ve had a return of symptoms for the past several months on Nature-Throid. And now the recall. I get other compounds from my compounding pharmacy and this is the option I plan to try this time, a compound. I hope it works. I was so good for a long time, but now my symptoms are back with a vengeance. I did well on Armour years ago.
Mary Ann
Any advice on switching from subpotent Naturethroid to Armour. Would it be the same dose?
Janie Bowthorpe
Since Naturethroid is now known to be sub-potent, patients have reported starting on less Armour then the amount of Naturethroid they were on. That gives them time to adjust to what is stronger (Armour) and do labs to find the right amount of Armour and raises.
Clara
This is what I have been wondering and looking for!!! Thank you!
I recently switched to Armour and went on the same dose as Naturethroid and my heart is doing funky things. I might be overdosed now that I am on a working medication.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Does anyone know if Erfa is working now as I was contacted saying that it is available again?
Janie Bowthorpe
Reviews are so mixed. Some are still saying they are fine; others are saying that have problems.
housemaid
I just read that RLC Labs is issuing a voluntary recall for both Nature-throid and WP for being too weak, sometimes as low as 87%. They are offering refunds on unexpired lots through the drugstore where you purchased it. They say they are unaware of any bad reactions to these under-performing batches. Ha! It has been about a year since all the NDT started going bad. Maybe they have used up the bad supply and will get a more reliable safe supply. I have hope that this is so. However, I have no hope that they will ever admit what was really wrong. It wasn’t just slightly weak pills as we all know. I would be willing to go back to WP if they ever get a good supply again, though. It was my favorite.
https://www.rlclabs.com/voluntary-recall-information-and-forms.html
housemaid
I have been taking 2 grains of Armour and 1 grain Thyroid-S for about a week. I decided I would never know if either was working properly as long as I combined the two, so I took 3 grains of the Thyroid-S today. I feel quite dizzy and weak now. Was that one of the signs of the bad NP that smelled like cat urine? These Thyroid-S pills made in August 2019 do have a taste/smell of cat urine, and that was about the time that all the NDT started going bad. If I let the Thyroid-S dissolve instead of chewing it, the coating on it burns my tongue. The cat pee taste is somewhat masked by sugar.
I need 3 grains of thyroid, but these 4 grain Armour pills I have crumble so badly when cut. I was always able to cut my other thyroid pills (NP, WP, and Nature-throid) easily to vary my dose as needed, but not these Armour pills. They are soft and chalky, have no smell or taste. I think I got an older batch since the hard coating I have been reading about is not there on the Armour pills I got.
Writegirl
I had the same problem trying to cut the 4 grains in half, but then I found I could bite them in half. They split perfectly that way. Give it a try.
CAROL
If you put your thumb and forefinger on each side of the three and four grain tablets, they will snap right in half.
Sherry
As a thyroid cancer patient, It is incredibly disappointing to experience the recalls with the NDTs. After 5 years without my thyroid, the way I feel is always a barometer of whatever replacement hormone I am taking. Unfortunately, what usually happens to me is that I start to notice hypo symptoms and never immediately think it is the NDT. Months go by before I even consider the NDT. In this case, with the Nature-throid, I had been complaining to my doctors for months not thinking it could be my replacement hormone. Of course now, I understand that I was hearing my body tell me I was “off”, and that it was the Nature-throid. I am going to work with my doctor to move away from NDT and go back to Tirosint and sublingual T3, should I need it.
Being that I do not have my thyroid anymore, I cannot keep risking my health with the inconsistent NDTs and what seems to me like a cyclical chase to find “the right” NDT.
Janie, you have been a wonderful source of information to me throughout my cancer journey, and I thank you. You have educated me enough to hear my body and demand more from my doctors. I will be ok because if I switch to synthetic and my body doesn’t like it, I know, from what you have taught me, that I have options.
Lissa Huening
I’ve just started hearing complaints that Armour is now going the way of Nature-throid (et al) and making people feel sub-optimal/hypo…have you heard anything about this? I feel like every time I find something that works, they change it! I finally switched to Armour a year or so ago and it’s been fine…I’m dreading the thought of having to start over yet AGAIN!!
Carolyn
So thankful for this information! Could you please explain again the “going backwards” idea? I’ve read and re-read the optimal page. Is it correct that thyroid hormone replacement is binary?Meaning you’re either making enough yourself or you’re not but to treat halfway or insufficiently is in the long run going to cost your body and other organs. So the idea that supplementing your natural production of thyroid hormones isn’t correct. If treating should treat and replace fully bc with any treatment HPA will be signaled to make less. Thank you for helping me understand. I’ve thought that supporting one’s own production was ideal but reading the optimal page seems that it’s not possible to “support” only to replace fully.
Debbie
I would love to know more about this?
What about replacing every few days?
I had heard that with Hashimoto’s that steroid treatment reduces the auto immune ?
Janie Bowthorpe
No, we don’t use steroids to reduce antibodies. We get optimal with our thyroid meds that also includes T3: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And there are more strategies in the book Hashimoto’s: Taming the Beast. See it here: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com
Lynne De Luca
To get on sublingual thyroid can you avoid blood work?
Janie Bowthorpe
We have found lab results to be valuable information.
Liz
Hi. I am reading with horror the comments about Nature-Throid. I wondered why I wasn’t feeling so hot. I saw an older list of other recommendations and ordered Bovine Thyroid from Nutri-meds. is that still a reasonable option? So confusing!
Paul Portlock-Smith
Apparently some people are seeing a return of hypo symptoms on bovine ndt too!
Jacqueline
So no surprise to hear RLC has done a voluntary recall of Naturethroid. I’m skeptical to try anything. I was diagnosed hypo back in 2003. That’s when I first discovered STTM. I went to my dr and asked for Armour. When they said no, I searched and found a dr that put me on it. Then came the recall of that in 2009. I went to a compounded version. Loved that even more. Moved to CA, and switched to a new compounding pharmacy who said they could duplicate what I was on. Ha! Their version made me crash. Wasn’t the same at all. So I found a Naturopath who suggested Naturethroid. I’ve been on that since.
Paul Portlock-Smith
They need to recall W.P as well as that is just as bad, if not worse!
Lynn
I can’t find anything regarding how long RLC has said Naturethroid has been underperforming for. It’s been going on for sure for me since 6/19. Anyone know more?
Katina Fernandez
I’ve had a battle with dosing and hypo symptoms on Naturethroid since the end of 2018.
Mary Ann
I noticed around 2018 a change in the smell and taste, to me it went from a strong porkish smell to a bland powder. I’ve gone up to 51/2 grains from 2 grains! I still don’t feel as good as I used to. There always were differences in batches in my opinion, so I’d have to adjust the dose up or down but now I’ve had to keep going up and up. I have to take some T3 that my Doc makes and his thyroid formula and Thyroid PX. A good batch of potent Naturethroid used to be pretty good on its own.
Sabrina BurchJohnson
I’ve been on Levothyroxine for close to fifteen years or more. I’ve done well on it until recently. I switched pharmacy’s from a smaller mom & pop type pharmacy to CVS. After the switch my ankles are swollen and they appear to look as if there is a ring toss around both ankles. Physicians put me on a steroid and water pills. Steroid worked but it had an awful side effects on me and now off steroid ankles swole right back up. I’ve been begging my pcp ever since Dr. Hagglund moved from OKC to Tulsa. My PCP said he would look into it fifteen years ago, but to no avail he doesn’t seem to understand my hypothyroid.
Angie
Has anyone tried Levothyrox? It is used by many in France. Merck is the maker. It was recently brought back to market after controversy due to the return of hypo symptoms after a formula change. Supposedly you can get it in the U.S. at Walmart for $4.00 for 30 day supply.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. That’s for the info. As long as we can add T3 to it, patients report doing best on T4/T3.
housemaid
I have been using a 2016 bottle of Nature-throid for almost a year now and have only one week left. I ordered some Armour but it has been lost in the mail. For the last week I have noticed that my old Nature-throid is losing strength rapidly as my BP is really dropping and my temperature is only 97. I was able to buy a couple of bottles of Thyroid-S last December. I chewed one pill today and it had the smell & taste of cat urine that I remember from the NP prescription I bought last fall, although not as strong. It is not a “pork” smell. I am wondering if the manufacturer of Thyroid-S might have gotten their thyroid powder from the same contaminated source, which I think is Sichuan Friendly from China. Is anybody using Thyroid-S from last winter successfully? If so, what does yours taste like?
housemaid
My Armour pills showed up in the mail today. I bought the 4 grain size intending to cut them in half. I used a brand new pill splitter, but they crumbled badly. There is no coating at all on the Armour pills. It seems like they have made them that way to prevent people from spitting them and saving money. The pills have absolutely no smell or taste of either cat urine or “pig”. That is a good thing, as I am worried about the Thyroid-S pills I bought last winter which have the smell of cat pee and a bad taste.
Amy Lynn
@housemaid I have been taking Thyroid-S since March-ish, and I received my bottle in January or February, can’t remember which. Manufacture date: 2/9/19 with an expiration of 2/9/22. Haven’t noticed the cat pee taste or smell with mine when I chew them, only what I’d describe as a slight chemical taste/burn? Very hard coating to chew, so it’s kinda hard to tell exactly what’s inside. Probably all the fillers they use, which is unfortunate. Also the fact that no one can even get it anymore 😔 However, I am doing quite well on it despite that…I’m on 3 1/2-4 grains of it plus T3 but I’ll have to go off it next month due to lack of supply. But it’s been better than Armour (for me) as a temporary substitute after NP went downhill a year ago now. Compounded PCCA Ndt was the same, it started smelling like cat pee & basically was an expensive failure. Plus my only option for filler was a ton of cellulose in the capsules. Will be asking my Nurse Practitioner for Tirosint or Tirosint-Sol through the direct program to make more affordable, and T3. Seems the only rational next step forward after all these NDT mishaps. If they ever returns to their former glory, I’ll be back on them, but for now, nope. I’m done!
housemaid
Amy Lynn, thanks for your reply. My Thyroid-S pills were manufactured in 8/19. That is about the time that NP and other brands of natural dessicated thyroid started going bad. I got 2 of the last 1000 pill bottles of Thyroid-S before the price doubled. I have been taking 2 grains of Armour with 1 grain of the Thyroid-S. When I use up the Armour pills (only bought 30), I will buy the 3 grain Armour. I have only been on the Armour for 4 days now. My BP and temperature have normalized. My hair loss has slacked off. But I still have build-up of dead skin cells all over my body, acne, weakness of arm muscles, and arthritis like pains in my hands. Those are all things that go away when I am optimal. It probably hasn’t been long enough, but I am thinking that I am not getting enough T3 from the Armour. The Thyroid-S isn’t making me sick, but I am worried about the cat pee smell and taste.
Ashley
I have been on Nature Throid and my labs finally tanked. Do you recommend trying Armour or just going straight to synthetics? I’m in the US and those are the 2 options I’m looking at. Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
A lot of people have reported moving to either Armour or T4/T3 when they started having problems with Naturethroid, WP or NP.
Jeffrey
I switched to Armour a little over a month ago, bumped my dose up a 1/4 grain (still on a very small dose) and I feel great! haven’t had labs yet but so far so good….pills look and smell like the old WP.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, we have noticed we will feel good on doses that aren’t anywhere near optimal, but it usually backfire on us! So here’s the page on what we’ve learned about what it means to be optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Jeffrey
Is there a page on your site that has “optimal numbers” ?
I use/my doc the numbers for “functional medicine” and how I’m feeling. Not the standard range they is here in the US
2 months into Armour, feeling epic!
Janie Bowthorpe
Here you go: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal You’ll also see that you can order a Lab values card for easier reference.
Jeffrey
Thanks! I compared my labs with your reference…i think it was Free3 in the upper range and Free 4 in the mid? Cant remember but….im completely optimal with 1 grain of Armour. Feel great, best in years….would love to hear people posting more positive experiences, seems like this blog is just filled with people that are suffering. Would just be nice to hear people report back that feel awesome 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
People who are doing well aren’t here as often as those trying to figure things out. But well-treated thyroid patients are out there!
April
Hi Jeffrey,
Are you still doing well on Armour? My old faithful (WP) was not working for me but I found an old bottle of NP from 2018 that I’m finishing. My doctor will then be switching over to Armour but I’ve heard mixed things about it for the long-term.
Esther Roberts
I am so puzzled. Since RLC resumed production I have been using NatureThroid because they didn’t have my WP. I adjusted to the new product and kept on an even keel by cutting the dose a bit twice a week. Oddly, for 2 months in early spring, and now again, I am getting symptoms of overdose: tenseness, irritability, shakiness, exhaustion, highly irritated digestive tract. Why would it suddenly be too high a dose? Testing only gets paid once a year. My new primary care doc not interested.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ester, what you are describing may be more about a huge adrenaline release by your adrenals, simply because naturethroid does not work anymore. The body will usually release excess adrenaline when it’s alarmed about what’s going on… meaning being alarmed by your underlying hypothyroid state on naturethroid.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie just wondering if anyone knows the drop off rate whereby patients who used to buy W.P or Naturethroid, like me, no longer purchase from the company. It must be huge so I am wondering what their next move will be?
Anna
Thyroid-S is still being manufactured and the manufacturer (Sriprasit Phama) has no plans to discontinue it. I recently contacted them after reading a lots of rumors online and they confirmed it is NOT being discontinued. However, due to recent shortages of raw porcine powder due to an outbreak of Asian swine fever, the price has literally doubled in recent months, and the 1000 ct bottles are no longer available. The biggest bottle available now is a 500 ct bottle which costs more than a 1000 ct bottle used to cost (approx 100 GBP/130 USD for 500 pills). But it´s still cheaper than most prescription brands of NDT.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Anna. Do know that others called Sriprasit Phama, and the word discontinue was used by the pharm. So it wasn’t a rumor. But we’ll hope they mean it was “discontinued” as far as not being produced for awhile, and will come back.
Santa Stocking
For the first time my ND and I had a difference of opinion with my lab numbers. Here are my recent labs:
Free T3: range 1.7— 5.2, result 3.5
Free T4: range 0.7 — 1.6, result 0.9
RT3 : range 0.9 — 27.0, result 17.1
I told her that my T3 should be 4.33, T4 should be 1.15 and that my RT3 should be 11.7 or below to be optimal. I was still having hypo syptoms with the medicine dosage that I was taking at the time of my lab work. So she increase my Tirosint 75 mcg 2 days/week, 50 mcg 5 days/week, T3 30 mcg BID. She felt that my current number were goods number so I told her those number still had me in hypo status. I’d love your opinion on this. Thank you mucho!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Nope, she’s wrong. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Joanne
Does anyone know if there is a connection between thyroid medication and rashes. I have developed a rash around the back of my neck and groin area. Itchy, red, splotchy, spreads out and worse in the morning and evening. I am on WP Thyroid and think it has changed from before. Also, my hair is thinning terribly. I have celiac so if I were to switch to another thyroid medication it would be a tough challenge to do because of the fillers. Was on synthyroid for years, stopped working and now on WP. Not so sure THAT one is working now. Horrible situation… I think I have hives and will be seeing dermatologist this coming Thursday. Also, I am not sure the rashes are from 3 MRI contrast with gadolineum ( a toxic metal not a dye ) like I thought of which I am on a blog site for that issue. Trying to play detective here and looking for all the help I can get…..ugh !! Latest test results: Free T 4 – 0.89, TSH – 3.99 as of 7/6/20, B12 – 260. Thank you one and all…Take care !
Starr D.
It is possible to get a rash from thyroid medicine, because I’ve had bad skin reactions from
a couple of them….Cytomel, many years ago, gave me raised red bumps on my arms and
stomach. Had to get off–they didn’t have generic T3 back then (that I know of), so it’s
possible I would’ve been OK on that….drugs from different companies can have different
fillers, dyes, etc. and sometimes that’s what causes the problem (inactive ingredients,
they call them–but they aren’t totally inactive if they’re causing you problems.) I also
had a really bad skin reaction from Levoxyl years ago…raised bumps, swelling, all kinds
of horrible things. My bad reactions to these drugs got better gradually as I got off them.
So, yes it can happen…not sure if that’s what’s going on in your case, but it can happen.
Joyce
Starr D.: I’ve had a similar rash (red itchy circular blotches) on chest since switching from levothyroxine to Nature Thyroid.
Janie Bowthorpe
Naturethroid stopped working well. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Sarah
Hi Janie –
I can’t seem to find the link with the picture of the chemical structure of NDT and synthetic T4.
I’ve searched the website but I can’t seem to find it.
I want to show my Endo synthetic T4 is not identical to our thyroid.
can you direct me to the article / link?
Thank you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Synthetics are very similar, except that it’s a mirror image–the latter is the difference. But that’s not the issue with an Endo. The issue is that a healthy thyroid ALSO makes some direct T3. We are NOT meant to live for conversion alone, and there are simply too many life issues, including genetics, that can hinder that conversion. The latter is what narrow-minded Endo’s fail to consider. Fight for that. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Dawn
Hi Janie,
I ordered Tru Thyroid from Thailand and received the two bottles last week. They do smell like the old NDT. They’re 30 mg each. I normally take 105 mg of NP, and had done well for many years on this dose. I have Celiac and am very health conscious regarding everything, to using no fluoride toothpaste and only drinking bottled water, to a very strict GF, dairy, egg, soy free diet.
The first day I had to take 8 of the pills. Nothing, felt hypo, enlarged tongue, water bloat, brain fog..
The second day I crushed 8, added dextrose and it took hours, no joke, about 6 hours, before I felt anything. They seem to work with the dextrose. I’m worried about having to keep upping the dose. You get 800 pills in a bottle, but by the time you use multiple during the day, it’s really not that cost effective.
Their customer service has been great, from sending me the ingredients, to now saying I can send both bottles back for a full refund.
I’m torn, as I do not want to go on synthetics.
How safe, in your opinion, is it to go up on doses with this?
Thank you for all of your help!
Toni
I am continuing on 3 grains of NP Thyroid, despite the new pills’ intensity of smell. I do chew the tablets before washing them down with a glass of water. Here are my recent labs:
Free T3: range 2.3 – 4.2, result 3.8
Free T4: range 0.8 – 1.8, result 1.4
TSH : range 0.4 – 4.5, result 0.01
I’d love your opinion on these, as I’m not sure what constitutes “top” and “middle” of the ranges.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your frees are ok. But you should test your RT3, just in case. It needs to be in the bottom 2-3 numbers and no higher. Do you feel good?
And how long before these labs did you take your meds?
Toni
I’ll get my RT3 tested. I had it tested several years ago, and I was surprised at how low it was, but a more recent test would be better.
I feel fine, however I am gaining weight with no real explanation. I had recently lost some weight, and I’m suspecting I was taking some of the 115% NP Thyroid. I did call my pharmacy, Express Scripts, to check that, and they said that they never received any of the recalled batches so I needn’t worry. But who knows? Maybe Acella didn’t catch ALL the “extra T3” batches.
I dose with NP Thyroid once per day in the morning, half an hour after taking my adrenals, but that day I waited until after the test to take either. So my last dose of NP Thyroid was 25 or 26 hours before this test.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not about the recalled batches. Those were before 2019. Since Summer/Fall of 2019, NP Thyroid has sucked royally and that can explain your weight gain. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Toni
Thank you, Janie. You are absolutely selfless in helping us.
Janie Bowthorpe
You’re welcome, Toni. Though I do have to make living at this, there are other areas like this I don’t. So I appreciate that. 🙂
Suz
I’ve also run the gamut of NDTs and compounded thyroid and am now throwing in the towel and switching to Synthroid and Cytomel. Do you know if the generic Cytomel is as good as the name brand? I know the generic T4 isn’t as stable as the name brand but don’t know if the same is true for T3.
Janie Bowthorpe
Suz, the generics are fine. You goal is to just get your frees optimal, no matter what you are on. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optial
Paul Portlock-Smith
Does anyone know why porcine powder isnt working? Aren’t NDT companies worried as patients will stop buying?
Janie Bowthorpe
No, we don’t know why. The common thread for those not working seems to be getting their powder from “Europe.” Why aren’t they worried? Stupidity?? Heads in the sand?
Paul Portlock-Smith
So Janie if European porcine powder is a problem as is Chinese. Is there any that is actually working. I know you said Armour is working and it did brilliantly last year but it isn’t working for me currently even though I am adding T3. W.P hasn’t worked either and I have tried both Thyrogold and Metavive with no positive results. Weight has ballooned over two stone despite eating very little. Endo said adrenals are fine. Im back on Levo and don’t know what else to do? Any suggestions?
Janie Bowthorpe
Paul, Armour has been working well if you raise it high enough to get those frees optimal. This is important to read it all through: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
If you have trouble getting those frees optimal, then read this is important to read it all through, not skim: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me It also mentions the saliva cortisol test needed, as Endo’s are generally clueless about adrenals.
You also have to see if you also have a high RT3. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Susan Hall
I switched to the Synthroid/Cytomel combination of 150 MCG Synthroid and 15 MCG Cytomel taken 3 times a day @ 5 MCG each. RT3 is thru the roof at 32.5 ng/dL
Labs:
Free T4 1.79 ng/dL on a scale of .82-1.77
Free T3 3.5 pg/mL on a scale of 2-4.4
TSH .006 on a scale of .45-4.5
RT3 32.5 ng/dL on a scale of 9.2-24.1
Iron Labs
Iron Bind. Cap (TIBC) 289 ug/dL on a scale of 250-450
UIBC 183 ug/dL on a scale of 118-369
Iron 106 ug/dL on a scale of 27-139
Iron Saturation 37% on a scale of 15-55
Ferritin, Serum 137 ng/mL on a scale of 15-150
Vitamin D seems low at 48.4 ng/mL on a scale of 30-100.
Vitamin B12 is 720 pg/mL on a scale of 232-1245.
Vitamin A is 48.9 ug/dL on a scale of 22-69.5
Vitamin C is 1.8 mg/dL on a scale of .4-2.0
I’m getting ready to make a telemedicine appointment with my doctor but I’m not sure how to proceed. Would it be useful to ask to go on T3 only? If I go on T3 Cytomel only would 3 grains be about right? What about lowering the Synthroid to 100 MCG or 1 grain and continuing the 15 MCG of Cytomel?
I was on NP Thyroid 3.5 grains until it went south.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. That’s quite a hefty amount of T4 to the T3. It pushed your free T4 WAYYYY too high. It’s not meant to be much higher than midrange or just slightly higher than midrange. If you compare it to desiccated thyroid, one grain is 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. Even three grains would be 114mcg T4 and 27mcg T3. And you always want to get optimal as explained here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal You’ll see the problems.
Your ferritin reveals inflammation. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/inflammation
For future labs, always use this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values There’s also a handy card you can purchase to have on hand.
Tracy Scott
I am waiting on my first order of Tru Thyroid it will come as a powder, but information on the site I order from says that Thyroid S is being produced again and they are shipping backorders and first come first served. You can put an order in to be in line but it looks like December is the earliest. I also read they are rationing.
Janet
I’m currently taking 150 mg of NP Thyroid and not feeling great, actually feeling fairly ‘flat’ emotionally, losing hair, constantly trying to not gain weight even with exercise and plus restrictions, tired, achy, cold hands and feet – it’s actually ridiculous that my naturopath says it’s just part of getting older.
My latest lab work.
TSH .006 Ref range .450-4.50 (ulU/mL)
Free T3 3.9 Ref range 2.0-4.4 (pg/mL)
Free T4 1.25 Ref range 0.82-1.77 (ng/dL)
Reverse T3 18.3. Ref range 9.2-24.1 (ng/dL)
Iron binding (TIBC) 284 Ref range 250-450 (ug/dL)
UIBC 154 Ref range 131-425 (ug/dL)
Iron 130 Ref range 27-159 (ug/dL)
Iron Saturation 46 Ref range 15-55 (%)
Ferritin, Serum 134 Ref range 15-150 (ng/mL)
Past testing revealed that I’m heterozygous for the MTHFR C677T and A11298C.
I have felt worse in the past, especially when I was on Synthroid, but just don’t feel like myself right now either.
I’m not sure what to do. Should I ask for a trial month of Armour, ask more a small increase in NP Thyroid?
What have people experienced moving from NP to Armour?
Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Janet. The blog post that you are commenting on tells you what to do.
Janet
Thank you for your response Janie and all of the work you’ve done over the years. Your website and books are what have helped me not throw in the towel.
I’m pretty sure I need to switch to Armour, just scared to feel even worse and not be able to work, to lose more hair, and to lose my mind!
I will be asking my naturopath for a prescription to Armour today. Do I ask for the same dose as NP Thyroid, which is NOT working well?
Norma Snapp
On August 29, 2018, I received an Urgent Medication Recall from Women’s International Pharmacy stating that they were currently working with Syntec Chem Corp to conduct a voluntary recall of all medications compounded with active pharmaceutical ingredient Thyroid Powder USP received from Syntec. The Pharmacy solicited me to take compounded thyroid which consisted of only thyroid powder and olive oil. Previous to this time the Pharmacy had filled my scripts with Armour Thyroid. The Urgent Drug Recall distributed by Syntec was a product of Sichuan Friendly Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd (China). The recall was initiated by the FDA and my notice included this paragraph: “This recall has been initiated because FDA laboratory testing confirmed the Thyroid Powder has inconsistent levels of the active ingredients–leothyroxine and liothyronine. Use of this powder to manufacture or compound drugs for patients use could result in over or under treatment of hypothyroidism which could result in permanent or life-threatening adverse health consequences.” Syntec siad they shipped the affected lots, 200kgs each, around Sept 5 & Oct 15, 2017 for your export to USA. It is my understanding the recall was for all entities, retail and other, using thyroid powder to manufacture natural thyroid medication.
My search for the factory produced much earlier notices in Europe. ALSO, PRIOR TO RECEIVING THIS RECALL, I was diagnosed with a fatal fish bacteria in my gut that caused systems such as fecal incontinence . This bacteria is usually only found in humans in Japan and other countries that eat larger quantities of raw fish. There was an unconfirmed conclusion that I may have contracted the bacteria through the compounded thyroid medication.
The reason I tried the compounded medication is because after the sale of Forrest Labs, I had all of the same experiences as others have listed on this website. I called the new owner of Armour Thyroid to find out why the size of the pills seemed smaller and much denser. I was told that sometimes adjustments of the equipment can cause this and that it was possible to have the pills so dense that they pass through the gastrointestinal system without being digested. I was also given the other ingredients, i.e., chalk, etc.) I would add that the price for three months of thyroid medication went from under $50 before the sale to over $150 for the same supply. I have since wondered if there are many manufacturers of Armour Thyroid and thus no consistent oversight of manufacturing processes. I have no proof that this could be true.
Paul Portlock-Smith
This is indeed very interesting especially as most of the bigger Pharma companies source thrir porcone products from China. Sadly, with such a poor record of hygiene standards that serm applicable in China, this could have been expected. Perhaps that is why so many of us who have tried a variety of different NDT recently, that once worked so well ate struggling. I, like many, have tried the once superb W.P, Naturethroid and the gold standard Armour with a very real return of hyp symptoms including rapid weight gain on all of them.
Janie Bowthorpe
Nothing out there says they source their porcine powder from China… And armour has work for the vast majority if you get your free T3 and free T4 optimal.
Kristina
Hi! In the same boat as everyone else. Janie, your work has literally saved my life… Thank you! Can someone please email me to tell me where/how I can purchase Thyroid-S?
My email address is kmtspintosoprano@gmail.com
Thank you!
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi all. Im still searching for a working NDT as I wasted money on the sadly, now usess W.P, followed by the once gold standard Armour that isn’t working either. I have tried Metavive without success and am thinking of trying either Thyreogland from Germany or Tru Thiroyd from Thailand. Has anyone had experience of these please. I tried Thiroid from Thailand and found them ok for alleviating symptoms but the fillers gave me crippling insomnia. Im not sure how far we are along from being able to take legal action against NDT pharmecutical companies as clearly we know something has changed despite their claims to the contrary?
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour still works if you get those free T3 and free T4 optimal. I think we established before that you are frees were not optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Lilith
I’ve alternated between Thiroyd and Thyroid-S for several years, with more success on Thiroyd, but both worked fairly well for me. I had placed an order for Thyroid-S in March. In April, after asking for an update on the order, they informed me that there was a delay and offered to send me an interim “sample” of Tru-Thyroid and would send my order of Thyroid-S when it came in. I agreed and told them I would be fine with replacing the entire order with the Tru-Thyroid (it’s actually cheaper). They never actually confirmed what they were sending out. I finally received the sample a couple of weeks ago (four months later), then sent a message asking for the tracking information for the original order, since they now have Thyroid-S in stock. I mainly wanted to know how I need to ration out what I have before the other arrived.
They haven’t responded. So now I’m kind of stuck in a situation. I rationed out my last order to the point that I had no medication at all for about a month. I’m now rationing out a small sample, and I have no idea if the original order is even on its way. Given the length of time orders are currently taking due to the COVID shipping issues, I feel like I need to place another order as soon as possible. But I’m afraid of placing another order because they are now not responsive, and I’m worried I’ll be paying for another order that won’t arrive.
As far as I know, there is only one source for the Thailand products. I’m thinking I need to return to the doctor and get back on synthetics again, as it’s mildly better than being completely without.
Dawn
Hi Lilith,
What did you think of the Tru Thyroid? Did you get a good response from it? Please comment on your thoughts of taking it.
Thanks very much.
Lilith
It seems like it works, but I can’t exactly give an accurate answer. I’m trying to ration them, so I’m on a much lower dose. It’s definitely worth trying if you can get some. I’m just doubting what used to be a reliable source for obtaining it.
Dawn
Thank you for your input. I’m sorry this is so hard on you, and all of us suffering just to feel well.
Anna
Sadly, Thiroyd was also discontinued in 2019, leaving only Thyroid-S of the Thai brands. However, there is a new Thai brand called Tru Thyroid (that´s how it´s spelled), with the same hormone content as Thiroyd, available both as a pill and as a powder. It´s so recent that I have not seen any reviews yet, but I did receive a message from the supplier back in April that it was now available. Like Thiroyd, it does not contain cellulose and less fillers than Thyroid-S.
Cathy
I am on 60mg of Armour and still feeling horrible. Do I have to add t3 to it or increase the Armour. Very frustrated & not functioning. I haven’t felt good in a year. Tired of not being myself & all the weight gain.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes everyone will eventually feel horrible on just a starting dose, which 60 mg is. You were supposed to have raised by a half a grain within two weeks, then again, and again. Read https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Joanne
Hello,
I keep forgetting to ask this question: Do all the pharmaceutical companies out there ( nationally and globally ) know about this blog that Janie started as well as the book that she wrote. If so, this may be a good thing as they will have an insight as to what is going on across the spectrum in regards to thyroid medications and could lead them to clean up their acts.
Anyone know if they know about STTM blog and book ?… be great if they do..!!!
Thanks in advance for any input.
Joanne
Hello all,
I would like to reach out to anyone that if there is ever a need to do research or as a result of research as to what has changed for all the thyroid meds and find it necessary to go to court or file a lawsuit let’s band together to do so per Paul’s latest blog. I could not do it alone but we need to band together and fix this. So many of us are suffering needlessly.
We would be up against Big Pharma ” but there is strength in numbers. Something is not only amiss but worse about the integrity of all the meds from what I am reading. This has gone on long enough. However, it would take a lot of work but possibly in the end we could facilitate change and get back to the purity of the meds, etc.
Your thoughts everyone…
Paul Portlock-Smith
The way I see it is unless someone still had a quantity of older NDT and some of the newer versions i.e Old Np to new NP or old W.P and nrw W.P and got someone to analyze both tablets we would have concrete proof of changes which means legal action could be taken.
Joanne
I could not agree more, Paul, on the idea of analyzing the differences to litigate.
Melissa
So what DO we take? I’m searching for desiccated thyroid and adrenal brands and I’m stumped. I don’t want porcine. I want bovine and I have no idea what works and what doesn’t.
Is there any brand to trust for dessicated organs??
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s all in the blog post you are responding to.
Alba
I know a woman doing very well on thyrovanz.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, some do report doing well. Others end up with a high RT3, which may related to when the cow was slaughtered.
Joanne
Hi Janie,
How can I find out what happened to WP Thyroid as I think they have now added fillers which I am allergic to such as; cornstarch, cellulose, starch, guar gum, etc. and having celiac disease ? I am not feeling as good as I used to on it and feel that the ingredients are not as pure as they once were. They claim there are only three but something is amiss.
How can I get the truth and how to contact the company to speak to a live person? Sad part is they just might not admit it. Something has changed !!
Thanks for what you do.
Regards,
Joanne
Cathy
Does Armour work without adding t3? My pharmacy messed up and subbed Armour with NP thyroid. I’m trying get it changed.
Paul Portlock-Smith
It didn’t for me unfortunately. It worked well last year but something has definately changed and I feel completely unmedicated on Armour now despite increasing the dosage and supplementing with t3
Janie Bowthorpe
Paul, increased to how much?
What was your RT3?
What condition are your adrenals in?
It’s usually not the Armour. It’s usually found in the three questions. Promise.
Paul Portlock-Smith
one grain and my adrenals are fine according to my enfo whrn I asked.
Janie Bowthorpe
One grain is simply a starting dose from which we are supposed to raise to find our optimal dose. So it wasn’t about Armour being bad. You were badly underdosed and that will make anyone feel bad if they hold to it. And Endo’s know squat about adrenals, we have experienced repeatedly.
Liz
I have been on Armour for about 3 years now (was on Naturethroid for a time but discontinued and went back to Armour when it had production issues.) I have recently added T3 to my Armour 120 due to a return in my symptoms. Sadly I do not feel any better. At all. I am at loss as to what my next step is. No one deserves this diminished quality of life. I’m desperate.
Toni
Just a little mathematical nerdiness here for those worried about the “hyperpotent” recalled NP Thyroid. If a batch of NP Thyroid has 115% of the normal T3, that means there’s 15% more T3 than you would have expected.
I worry that people see “115%” and think that means there’s more than double the expected amount of T3. Not so. It’s a relatively mild 15% increase. Of course, all pharmaceuticals ought to be spot on with their active ingredients, but 15% is not a huge increase. For example, the 1 grain NP Thyroid tablets contain 9mcg (micrograms) of T3. The “superpotent” recalled batches would contain 10.4mcg of T3.
Janie Bowthorpe
You are very correct. And it’s what happened since Summer of 2019 until today that SHOULD have been recalled. NP Thyroid is now crap, say many, many patients.
Ana
Yes! And the FDA allows pharmaceuticals to be between 90% and 110% of the stated active ingredients. The difference between 110% and 115% is minuscule. I think this recall is purely a PR maneuver by Acella. They’re probably trying to establish credibility with the medical community by making a show of how ethical and exacting their manufacturing standards are. This stunt is also a way to discredit the thyroid patients who’ve been reporting the very serious problems with NP Thyroid. Acella is making it look as if they’ll recall batches with some tiny variation, while not revealing what has really been wrong with NP Thyroid since last summer.
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m glad you are stating this, as there are some things I have to be very careful stating. So kudos to you!
Ana
I’ve been noticing the comments lately about Armour and want to share my experience with it. I’ve been taking Armour since the problems with NP Thyroid started in the summer of 2019 and have been doing very well on it. My batches have all been consistent both in potency and appearance. I picked up a new prescription a week ago, and nothing has changed. The current Armour is definitely not like the versions of Armour I took off and on from 2004-2015. If I just swallow the pill with water I don’t seem to absorb much if anything. It also hasn’t worked for me sublingually. What does work is chewing it and then drinking it with a large glass of water. Maybe I’ve just been lucky and have avoided some bad batches that have been in circulation.
Ana
Janie suggested that some of your pharmacists might have substituted NP Thyroid for Armour, and that makes sense to me. That could explain the bad batches that sound just like the bad NP Thyroid. NP Thyroid also has a big A on one side (for Acella?). If you haven’t already done this, you could compare your tablets to photos of Armour and NP Thyroid online to see which one matches yours.
Thanks, Janie, for this great resource!
Dawn
Hi Ana,
I’m glad to hear Armour is working for you. It makes me hopeful that maybe there are batches that work. I did check my NP, there is an AP stamped on the one side. I’m assuming for Acella Pharmaceuticals? Is your Armour the same color as the tainted NP? Thanks for your help.
Ana
Hi, Dawn.
The Armour tablets I’ve been getting since last fall have all been a tan color. It’s been consistent. I just looked at my most recent batch, and they’re tan with no speckles. They look nothing like the tainted NP Thyroid. I hope Armour will work for you!
Dawn
Thank you, Ana! That is excellent news! The Armour I picked up from my pharmacy a few weeks back is gray and speckled. No odor to it. I put it next to the bad NP I have, and they are exactly the same color. I am so glad to hear that yours don’t look like this! Continued good health to you!
Janie Bowthorpe
Do know that color can vary depending on the batches of pig thyroids used.
Dawn
Hi Janie,
Yes, I understand that, but I cannot negate the fact that I responded exactly to the bad NP as I did to the Armour I picked up. I just hope that there are working batches of Armour out there, as I cannot take synthetics and the stress of all of this is making things worse. I know I’m not alone in this, but going through this every few years is for the birds.
I read that Armour will be manufactured by a new company. Maybe (wishful thinking) they will produce a better, working product. Thanks for all of your help and guidance!
Bella
Hi,
Does anyone know what is different about the batch when it is a bad one? I have been taking Erfa for years now and doing really well with labs in optimal ranges. Just a couple of months ago I started gaining weight- just took my labs again and at the same dose I have been at for years, my free t4, Free t3, and also reverse are all within range but at the very bottom of the range. I’ve gained about 25 lbs very rapidly! Is there any way to identify a “bad” batch?
Thank you!
Bella
Janie Bowthorpe
You just did identify a potential bad batch. But…you also have to make sure that you aren’t just feeling the effect of being non-optimal. Those who hold to non-optimal doses have this happen to them–going backwards. Midrange isn’t optimal. Just above midrange isn’t optimal https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
judy burns
what is the link between afib and synthroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/afib
Paul Portlock-Smith
Im getting rather desperate now as I spent a lot on the now useless W.P and then followed it by spending a lot on Armour which now doesn’t work either. Has anyone tried Thyreogland from Germany. If so does it work?
Janie Bowthorpe
Paul, Armour works again!! You just have to get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Dawn
Janie,
I respect and admire you greatly! I have been following you for years, and have your books. I beg to differ though, Armour does not work. It is no different than the tainted NP. I literally just picked up a very expensive rx of Armour. I took one and within minutes started having the same bad reaction that I did to the recalled NP. It has to be the poisoned porcine powder. I think others that have stated they are doing well on Armour now, might have received, or had older pills that worked before this nightmare started. I don’t believe there’s a way to get optimal on Armour now. I pray everyday that something will change and we’ll all be able to enjoy life knowing that we have an NDT that works. Thank you for letting me voice this.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Dawn. Armour has, in fact, been working great for several months via patient reports. So that is what I relay back. So it’s really not a “beg to differ” kind of thing. Has it changed as of recently, though? We aren’t getting reports yet that it has. So what you may need to do is call the pharmacy and see if they switched you to NP…which too many pharmacies do without telling you. And it’s irritating. If you confirm from them that they in fact gave you Armour and not NP, it’s then going to be a matter of getting more consistent reports of a change.
Dawn
Hi Janie,
The rx I received is definitely Armour. It was a lot more money than NP. It looks identical in color to the bad 30 mg NP I have, except for the large “A” on it. This is so disheartening.
Janie Bowthorpe
Dawn, how much were you on? Just the 30mg?
Dawn
Hi Janie,
No, not just the 30 mg. I take 90 mg. in the morning, the 30 in the afternoon.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ok, then that’s part of your problem. That’s a low dose for many.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Hi Janie thanks for the response. Initially I was put on Armour around March 2018 and it was like a magic bullet. It was superb. I felt and looked better thsn I had in years. Unfortunately the NHS in the U.K told me I could not have it on prescription sny longer and it was awfully expensive to buy. I alternated betwern awful Levo and Thiroyd from Thailand for several months with varying results but nowhere near as good as I was on Armour. As my health is important I decided to buy Armour ptivayely. This was in July 2019 and it has definately chsnged by then as my weight increased and felt generally unwell on it. I bought it again recently after trying the miserable W.P but with the same results. There is a definite change of something as despite increadsng my dose I feel very under medicated!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Paul. Honestly, we have not gotten consistent feedback that Armour changed for people in July of 2019, nor even recently. Instead, what we saw were either 1) people being put on NP by their pharmacies and not realizing it, which has been highly irritating to switch people like that (though I know you said you buy it privately, or 2) People being underdosed and not realizing what that can do to them. Even raising while still underdosed can cause problems. The more you you raise still too-low doses, the more it’s suppressing your own feedback loop. i.e. people can be “suppressing more than replacing”. Thus they continue to feel awful.
But I, as owner of STTM, and those who report to me, always keep an eye out as to what consistent reports are. And if I start seeing more reports as to problems, I’ll report it for sure.
Paul Portlock-Smith
Do you suggest I take more Janie as previously on 2 grains of Armour I felt fantastic but currently I am on 2 grains and feel almost unmedicated so thats why I feel there has indeed been a change somewhere.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s all about achieving optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Tenly Connor
I’m having problems with Armour too. I checked the bottle and it says Forrest lab, but my TSH is usually below 1 and was over 11. My doctor prescribes a 3 month supply. I don’t know if the new batch is okay or not. My doctor increases my dose from 90 to 120. I have Hashimoto and I think I am having a flare up. Any suggestions? Some of the information on here I just don’t understand. But I thought I should chime in that Armour appears to not be working. I’ve had problems of it going up and down, but only more recently. It use to be manufactured in Dublin, but changed ownership and is now made in India.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s probably not Armour thats the problem. It’s being underdosed, Tenly. It’s very uncommon for only 120 mg to make your frees optimal. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And it would help you to get the books Hashimoto’s: Taming the Beast and Stop the Thyroid Madness I. https://laughinggrapepublishing.com
sam
thank you jamie so much for this ! and everyone .
anyone using the new bottle thyrogold or using thyrovanz have any luck?
thyrogold used to work for me but the new bottles [ white label instead of blue ]dont work at all . gained weight low heart rate.
found still had 1 old bottle.it worked lost 8 pounds heart rate went up
but now bottle almost empty. will try thyrovanz but has anyone else had problems wihth the new label thyrogold . does it work if take 3 or 4 x the amount used to?gets expensive ]
any problems or sucesses with thryovanz ?
appreciate so much any help
Janie Bowthorpe
It appears something bad has happened to Thyrogold with the amount of people who are seeing a bad return of their hypothyroid symptoms. I tried to talk to Tammy about it…but….
With Thyrovanz, there is evidence that a certain body of users are having a high RT3 with it. Suspicion is towards cow thyroid perhaps having higher amounts of T4, or related to when the cow’s thyroid was removed–some research shows higher RT3 at certain times of the year. Just suspicions though. Others feel good on it.
Nutrimeds is another OTC worth looking into.
sam
thank you so much jamie .appreciate it so much.so distressing when things are changed and then dont work anymore and
back to square one . am trying thyrovanz. ill look for nutrimned s too. thank you for talking to tammy about it i wish she would fix it .it s definitely not working since changed suppliers or label.
if thyrovanz does cause high RT 3 si there anyway of knowing with out blood test and is it dangerous . thank you jamie so much
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, there has been some evidence that Thyrovanz has been causing high RT3, even though some will deny what has been seen. But not all are seeing it. It’s not that it’s “dangerous”. It’s just that the higher RT3 goes, the more hypo you will become, as it’s known to inhibit cellular levels of FT3.
Paul Portlock-Smith
As a U.K male hypothyroid sufferer I too am disgusted with way NDT users have been treated. I also think this is fraudulent as being in the U.K I paid hundreds for several months supply of W.P (which used to work brilliantly) but the latest incarnation felt like I wasn’t taking anything. When I contacted them I was told nothing had changed when clearly it had. When I contacted them again mentioning legsl action I received no reply. Sadly out of desperation I spent more money on Armour which worked terrifically well when I took it about 15 months ago but now, slmost the same results as W.P. It is now like these meds don’t have any thyroid hormone, particularly T3! To have to pay for something that isn’t working is wrong. To say that nothing has chznged is wrong. I think the FDA need to be contacted (as I have) as products are being sold without proper checks. In France when patients complained about changes in medication the French government forced the msnufacturer to change it back. We should be able to do this, or at least challenge companies. It shouldn’t be about money as when domething doesn’t work people invariably stop buying!
Elizabeth
[[ Janie, I just left a comment, I’m so sorry, this sentence is out of bounds and unkind:
If I could replace with “Generic levothyroxine for a year (sometimes with T3) was pure hell and and I won’t do that again.” Thank you so much, please excuse me, E ]]
Elizabeth
Thanks to all for the information. I write the following as my experiences are a bit different than many are reporting. Due to the pandemic, not only did my doctor disappear, but my Canadian pharmacy was not able to refill my Erfa Thyroid. I had been doing pretty well on it for three years. My local pharmacy had 60 tablets of Armour left and I was able to find an NP to prescribe it; I had taken the old Armour before the 2009 problems and done well with it.
Since using it, it is clear that it is somehow not working properly, and I get a low grade fever from it as well. I still have some Erfa so I was able to experiment. The Armour says Mfg: Forest and the tablet is very crumbly. I suspect that I am having some kind of sensitivity to an ingredient in the tablet.
I tried Nature-Throid for a year in 2016 and gained a lot of weight, etc. Generic levothyroxine for a year (sometimes with T3) was pure hell and I’d rather die in a gutter than try that again. Tried NP Thyroid by Acella in 2014 and by the end of the year, was like a zombie, I may as well have taken a placebo. I had switched to it from Erfa Canada due to finances.
Needless to say, if our thyroids are not working properly, we are susceptible to illness. Like the rest of you, I am desperate and disgusted.
Paul
From my own extensive research it appears there are only a couple of sources of Thyroid API left in the USA.
One recent source is from Bioiberica (Spain) who are partnered with Bayer Animal Health and the other is Chinese (likely more than one Chinese producer that I can’t quite find out the exact names of, also see note[*]) but they’ve been severely affected by the African Swine Fever virus.
China lost up to 60% of its hogs to ASF between 2018-2020. Since China produces about half of the world’s hogs, this drove up the price of Thyroid API and local US based suppliers have had to look for alternatives, now typically sourcing from the EU.
The US based manufacturer, American Laboratories (ALI) was the sole US producer until some time ago (possibly around 2017?) when they ceased producing thyroid API.
Another producer from EU is Biofac (Denmark) but they don’t seem to export any Thyroid API to the US as far as I can tell.
* Sichuan Friendly was one of them now seemingly defunct since the FDA warning letter in 2018, or it’s likely just been cleaned up and rebranded.
Paul
I found a couple more suppliers showing “active” filings on the USDMF.
LABORATORIO OPOTERAPICO ARGENTINO SA (Argentina) – they only list bovine thyroid powder on their website but have many other porcine powders so they could produce and export both?
NORDMARK ARZNEIMITTEL GMBH AND CO KG (Germany) – showing a recent filing as of May 2019 so they may be the EU supplier referenced in my previous post, since Bioiberica only announced thyroid API production late last year.
Janie Bowthorpe
This is great information that you are obtaining, Paul. It might help give some clues as to why most American-made NDTs aren’t what they used to be now.
Subhanjan Bhattacharya
Don’t think Bioiberica is partnered with Bayer Animal Health on this. This one is a human drug and there must be some other Pharmaceutical company. They’ve claimed in their press release- “The development of our new thyroid API is the direct result of collaborative partnership with a key player in the pharmaceutical market”. Who could this be? And has that “key player” launched the product already?
Carmen
I recently received a letter from Walgreens saying many of the doses of NP Thyroid are being recalled due to having much higher doses than the dose on the bottle, some up to 150% higher!!!
I am beyond frustrated. I no longer know what to take. I feel as if we’ve been kicked to the gutter. And I feel defeated. I’ve tried Synthroid, Armour, Levo, Nature Thyroid and NP Thyroid. Help!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
I think it’s just 115%.
Armour works again. So does T4 with T3. And getting optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Karen H.
Just wondering if anyone experienced eczema-like rashes on the new NP Thyroid? Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
Reports by patients reveal a lot of negative outcomes on NP thyroid.
Dee Lee
I got what I call “rhino skin”. The first knuckles in my hand were so thick and scaley and would bunch up if flexed. I had horizontal lines in my skin up and down all my fingers. Just, very weird skin.
Norma Grieve
Firstly, huge thanks for all your work and this site.
Would really appreciate your input. I have Hasihimoto’s plus Addison’s diseases and am watching my diminishing Thiroyd supply (1 grain twice daily) with alarm. So, I halved the dose and added in Metavive II (60mg porcine thyroid) which some on thyroid.uk have found helpful. All fine for about two months until, this last week, a rapid heart rate and breathlessness.
It is difficult to be certain which disease is causing the problems as low blood pressure causes these issues but this discussion indicates low thyroid hormones causes something similar too. As I cannot visit my doctor for tests, I would be grateful for your thoughts as to how to proceed.
Thank you SO much!!!
Hilary White
Well I am disgusted, as well. I was on NP, feeling great with perfect labs until a few weeks ago when I got my new bottle. Now? TSH at 10 and feel horrible. Went through the EXACT SAME THING with Armour, Naturethroid, Erfa and now NP. Got the recall letter yesterday but being hyper is not my problem, it’s whatever they did last summer catching me now.
I just finished treatment for breast cancer. Chemo, lumpectomy, and just finished radiation a month ago and am now cancer free! Woot! Throughout, I was worried about my thyroid being stable and the medication not changing, as I’m always waiting for the other shoe to drop with the dreaded “formulation change.” I’m lucky I guess that I made it through all that until now. On the positive side, my doc put me on prescription D and now I’m up to 56. I was never much about 30 before. Yay for that.
So now I don’t know what I’ll do. I have a bottle of Armour they gave me by mistake so maybe I’ll try that again, as Janie suggests. Or I may just go with the synthetic T4/T3 combo.
A friend told me Wagner Jones in Fresno is seeking clients affected by the recall. My lot number supposedly was not affected – but I may call them anyway. I’d really like to hurt all these companies in the wallet for hurting all of us over and over and over.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yup, that’s NP for you. And it appears that like you, people who’ve been feeling well on NP have been receiving the old, good stock. So once they pick up the new stock, it’s all downhill.
Cathryn
I just checked on your website today and the last time I checked your site was a year ago. I’m on the NP Thyroid and I was wondering why I’ve been gaining weight back and feeling sluggish and having tons if bloating and my hair falling out the past months so I thought I’d better check and sure enough I’m right after reading all what is going on. What I find strange is I looked at my pills and it says 331 on them, and going by the pictures that you have posted I saw 228 and 330….so I wonder why mine says 331? Would you happen to know why? I just know now that I need to do something and quickly because I dont want to gain back the 20 pounds that I lost. Which I have like 60 pounds to go, and I dont want to start going back up again…I’m 60 years old and I’ve tried synthroid (which I was on for about 20 years and was sicker then a dog like most others) I’ve tried Armour, Naturthyroid and WP Thyroid….so I’m hesitant to try Armour again. If I go to the synthetic t4 and t3, what are the names of them? I heard the names Tirosent and Cytomel…but not sure what they are, can you elaborate more on what are good synthetic brands to take?
Lindsey
I am on 90 mg NP thyroid my
FT3 2.6 (2 – 4.4)
FT4 1.13 (0.82-1.77)
RT3 15.6 (9.2 – 24.1)
I am sub optimal on T3 from what I understand and am having some hypo symptoms. My rt3 ratio is 16 (and should be over 20?) I have 5 mg tabs of T3 would it be recommended to add some t3 4 hours after I take the NP thyroid? Should I ask my dr to switch me to armour- which my insurance doesn’t pay for I believe ?) thanks for your help – trying to feel better and navigate all of this ! It’s tough to get in to the dr during these weird times as well.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes about Armour. BUT…your RT3 is going up. So you don’t want to be on much NDT/Armour, as it’s 80% T4 and RT3 comes from that T4. We add T3 to it, then correct the cause of the rising RT3: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
sar m
can anyone recommend good doctor in houston who are not looking at tsh and labs values rather than symptoms and are not afraid to increase dosage ? have been searching
Suan Fife
I go to Dr. Tariq Zia in Tomball. I really like him.
Janie Bowthorpe
Does he prescribe T3? Does he ignore the TSH?
Michaeline
I am taking a compound NDT from Care First Specialty Pharmacy. I am optimal and have been since November.
sarah
is it the new jersey branch?
Jeanne Crockett
Do you know where the “American” NDTs are actually manufactured? If you’ve read a book called “Bottle of Lies” about drug manufacturing in India, it might explain some of the problems. I tried to determine where the NatureThroid was manufactured but got lost in the maze. I’m doing fine on Thyroid-S but worry about the supply line. Any interest in manufacturing our own? I’d be up for that.
Thanks for all you do. It had changed my life, and I know my mother was severely hypothyroid her entire life. She took a thyroid pill ONCE; it made her feel terrible so she refused to consider anything else ever again.
Lori
Jeanne, I’m also doing good on Thyroid-s but am now worried as it’s not available anywhere after searching for days now. Do you or anyone know where it might be available? Thank you!
Shona
Hi Janie,
Do you know if there are people on the STTM forum who are interested in and may have the knowledge to help us fugure out how or even if it is possible for us to manufacture our own NDT? If you think there are enough people interested or willing to contribute their time and knowledge, would you be willing to sponor some kind of group? Or maybe there already is a group of this kind that I’m not aware of…if so please let me know…I have written some business plans in the past and I know something about raising hogs…
If anyone here agrees with me, please chime in….
Because Big Pharma is the richest most powerful lobbyist in Washington and also has its hands in the pockets of the FDA any dreams of getting congress to listen to our pleas or getting anyone in our Government to listen are futile and a waste of time and effort. If you are skeptical about this like I was, I encourage you to do some research.
Therefore, I think if we desire safe and optimal medication to treat our disease we need to organize and act…as individual voices we are ignored, but together, I believe we have the power to make affordable NDT available to anyone who needs it. AT LEAST I THINK IT’S WORTH INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITIES…
I am grateful Janie for all you do for us….you have helped countless thyroid disease patients
Joanne
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if mild to at times severe swelling of the ankles and top of foot could be related to insufficient amounts or levels in WP Thyroid. I take 65 mg 2x / day. I am playing detective to find out if it is cardiac related or something else. It is primarily the left foot. Swelling and puffiness around the ankle on both sides and top of the foot. It also could be the barometric pressure as I watch it like a hawk. Once it dips below 30.0 I find the swelling to start as well as feeling it in both knees which are bone on bone. Ugh…. I have a feeling it is a combination of several issues. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions or ideas….
Janie Bowthorpe
wP Thyroid doesn’t work well anymore. So no telling what role it could be playing in what you are describing. You might try moving to Armour as this blog post explains.
Joanne
Hi Janie,
Thanks for responding concerning the swollen left foot and ankle. Update: been diagnosed with lymphedema.You suggested switching to Armour. Having celiac disease doesn’t Armour have fillers such as; cornstarch, wheat, cellulose, starches, etc.?
Thanks for your response.
Charlotte Boyett
I am currently on 2 grains of WP + T3. My labs consistently show less than normal range of FT4. My symptoms are sore stiff feet right out of bed, muscle/joint aches, along with the typical inability to lose weight even on upper range of T3. I just asked my Dr. to switch to Armour.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Do you mean a less than normal lab result within the provided range? Come back here and post your free T4, free T3 and RT3 with ranges. But switching to Armour may be better anyway. We’ve seen a lot of folks on WP who just aren’t doing as well as they used to. BUT get very familiar with the wisdom on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal It’s your goal on any thyroid meds with T3 in the treatment.
Lisa D
Hi Janie
Thanks for your time and effort in the fight against thyroid disease, you have definitely helped me feel better and to understand the complexity of my Hashimotos.
I am about to change to Metavive II, my year’s supply of Thiroyd from Thailand is almost out but has served me well. I ordered more of that but it made me feel awful. I am slightly worried about switching to Metavive but know I have no other choice. I have been taking 1 and half to 2 grains of Thiroyd quite comfortably for ages. Do you know what equivalent dosage I should take on this Metavive please?
Thanks in advance
Lisa
Janie Bowthorpe
I honestly have no idea. But remember that you have to get the free T4 and the free T3 optimal. We rarely see optimal on the low amounts you were on. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Jan Harris
The first thing I noticed when NP Thyroid went “south,” was swelling of the legs, ankles, and feet. Also noticed milder swelling when on the “new” Nature-Throid.
Annomaly
If you haven’t see this, I received this email last week from Acella, the manufacturer of NP Thyroid. As you read this, you may be as shocked as I was to learn that the amount of active ingredient in your medication may NOT be what is listed on your prescription bottle. Its no wonder that our doctors have such difficulty determining the proper dosage of medication, let alone why we may feel completely different on the same medication when we get a refill!
Some pharmacies list the LOT number of the pharmacy bottle on the label of your prescription bottle, others don’t. To find out you have to do a lot of wrangling to get the LOT from their computer systems (they must keep track of it)
From now on I am going to make an effort to keep a list of these LOT numbers so that I can include it with the blood work result tracking that I do. Its not all in our heads, its what’s (not) in our meds!
Stay well –
A
FROM ACELLA
As a valued member of our NP Thyroid® community, there is nothing more important to us than your health and safety. That is why we wanted to make sure you heard from us about a voluntarily recall of specific lot numbers of NP
Thyroid® bottles produced in 2018 and early 2019 that may contain a percentage of T3 above the amount listed on the label. While we expect that most of the recalled product has been used, we are working closely with our distributors to ensure that if there is any affected NP Thyroid® on pharmacy shelves or with consumers, it is recalled and returned to us.
The affected lots had levels of Liothyronine (T3) of up to 115.0% of the amount listed on the labels, which is outside of the acceptable range of 90.0 to 110.0%. The bottles affected include 30-mg, 60-mg, and 90-mg tablets from 13 batches
that were produced in 2018 and early 2019.
As you may be aware, in July 2019, we changed the supplier for our active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) to an FDA-inspected facility in Europe. The affected lots are not related to our current supplier; they were produced before
we made the switch to our new supplier.
Because of the seriousness of hypothyroidism, you should not stop taking your NP Thyroid® medication. If you are concerned that your medication may be from the affected lots, you can check the lot numbers for the 13 affected lots listed on our website. The lot or batch number may be listed on your prescription bottle. If not, you can contact your pharmacist to check the lot number on the current prescription dispensed to you.
If your NP Thyroid® is part of the 13 recalled lots, continue to take your medication as prescribed. Do not stop your medication unless you have talked to your healthcare provider to discuss your prescription. They may recommend that
you obtain a new refill of your prescription for NP Thyroid®. Our mission is to provide patients with high-quality and cost-effective medicine that helps you manage your hypothyroidism and associated symptoms. We continually review
our quality assurance processes to make improvements and have expanded our quality checking team and put extra reviews in place.
We deeply value the trust you place in us to help you manage your health. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact our team directly at recall@acellapharma.com or 1-800-541-4802.
Janie Bowthorpe
NP Thyroid has sucked since early last Fall. It even started to suck last summer for some.
Debbie Shavitz
But that makes more sense now. If there were bad batches that had more T3 in them than normal. we were actually ramping up our T3 without knowing it. And then when they switched suppliers, the T3 was dropped and we felt like our symptoms were coming back. Right?
Debbie
Janie Bowthorpe
Not in 2019. In 2019, starting in the summer, and definitely by Fall, a huge body of NP users were seeing a horrific return of hypo, besides burning down their throats, burning or nausea in their stomachs, etc. What they are describing with an excess of T3 was hardly noticed by the majority, even if a few may have.
Annomaly
I personally have the ‘princess and the pea’ level of sensitivity when my medication isn’t balanced regardless of which value it is. I was very ill from NP Thyroid during the period of this voluntary recall and after they switched where they receive their glandulars from (I was told that they get them now from Polish Pigs not from China). I had to stop taking this medication as I discovered that I am allergic to something in the filler. I have successfully switched back to WP Thyroid and am feeling the same as I did before it was temporarily unavailable.
Here’s the latest from Acella:
Acella has confirmed that all recalled medication has been removed from pharmacies and all NP Thyroid in stock at pharmacies is current.
– If you would like to send your medication back or receive a refund from NP, they have contacted with Qualanax to facilitate the returns and refunds process. (Note that you do not need to return the medication but you are welcome to do so if you want.) To contact Qualanax, please note the following:
—- Before you call, please have the bottle of NP in front of you as well as a copy of your receipt from the pharmacy. (If you need a copy of the receipt, your pharmacy can scan and print a receipt from your current bottle when you pick up your refill).
—- Call their Customer Service line at 888-280-2042. The CSR will guide you through the process. If you are sending back the medication, they will send you a Recall Kit.
Cath
The email from Acella sounds a bit alarmist to me. The 90% to 110% would translate to 8.1-9.9 mcg of T3 per grain. The stated max of 115% is 10.35mcg T3 per grain. If you take 3.5 grains per day (my dose) it would only be 1.6 mcg of T3 above my expected max intake of 35.7mcg.
Yes its higher than it should be, but in the scheme of things does anyone really notice a change of 1.6 in 35.7?
Karen Bice
Janie, do you have any suggestions or stories about patients who have switched to Synthroid and T3? How are they doing and what doses? I was basically on 120 NPThyroid and had to increase my dosage from 150 to 180 to feel optimal. I’m tired of it all and might consider leaving desiccated thyroid, but also afraid as I’ve been on Synthroid years ago, and it didn’t make me well. I’m seeing my doctor in 15 days and would love to know how it’s working for them.
Janie Bowthorpe
Karen, they are doing wonderful. Many, many reports of that. But also know that it’s important to still get the frees optimal, even on the two synthetics: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Read the latter. It’s important.
Brandy Porche
Hello. I am currently on Thyrovanz and T3. Prior to that, I was taking Thyrovanz alone but still had heavy edema and palpitations. At one point I went down to 25mg Thyrovanz and still had palps. I had great test results with 150mg Thyrovanz alone but still had edema and palps. I am now on 150mg Thyrovanz and 15 mcg T3. On this dosage, my edema decreased by 70% but I still have palps. I am thinking of trying T4 and T3. Are many Hashimoto patients doing this? Any problems? What should my dosage be for each? Trying to get rid of all of the edema and palps. Thank you in advance for your help.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Brandy. You really need to find out if all this is because you have an adrenal problem, which any thyroid med with T3 in it will reveal. Because you’ll still have problems going to the two synthetics if you do. Read this carefully: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Sandra Thornton
I had switched to NP Thyroid back during the Naturethroid backlog. Now there is a recall on several dosages of NP Thyroid 30, 60 and 90 for being superpotent
Trying to decide what i want to ask my endo for??
Synthroid nearly killed me years ago
Armour – I ended up with a bad batch of medication (it had all kinds of debris and specks in my tablets they were very odd looking) my mouth was burning and i tasted metal for 2 weeks occurred when it was acquired from Forest and it took me months to get well swore i would never go back but i do have family members on it now they are doing great
Naturethroid saved me then couldn’t get it any longer so switched to NP. Seemed ok but last 2 months i have been jittery and I had a lot of lost sleep. I was prescribed an antibiotic that i had taken several times in my life with no issues felt like my heart would never slow down and i shook for several days. It was contraindicated for someone with hyperthyroidism. I have to wonder if my batch was affected i do take the 60 (1 grain). Unfortunately for me i had to stop antibiotic doc would not prescribe me anything else due to the rxn and then i got really really sick and had to go to the hospital to get correct antibiotic. Very exhausting and expensive.
Now I find out the dosages could be off for the T3 component being too high.
So what now? I have always taken levoxyl with my NDT contemplating going back to cytomel but I feel better on NDT however I have had 3 health scares because of them.
Yvonnebrennan2018@gmail.com
Hi I was on 50mcg of eltroxin for about a year and a half . My dr put me up to 75mcg that’s when these horrendous symptoms started racing heart palpitations pounding heart fatigue anxiety pain sweating insomnia breathless internally tremors. Shaking then I was changed to ndt still symptomatic now on thybon still the same only more pronounced symptoms… I was told by a FM dr that I have Hashimoto’s along with hemachromatosis too. Will I ever feel like myself again. On beta blockers now but still suffering.can somebody please advise or me. I’m working my way up to 40mcg thybon. I’m taking it in quarters as my symptoms increase if I take anymore in large doses more than 5mg .
Thank you Yvonne
Patticia
Hi. I am so overwhelmed right now. After at least 5 years of being undiagnosed hypothyroidism, 2 days ago a nurse practitioner finally looked at my T3 and said 2 is too low to feel good and prescribed me NP. I am SO new to this and looked it up. All I kept seeing was negative reviews. Actually all the NDTs were looking pretty bad. Except maybe Armour. Which I asked my doc to switch me to because I’m scared of the others. I was so excited to start this journey or healing and feeling normal again but now I’m scared and confused. Please can someone guide me? This whole thing seems like a rabbit hole of other problems and I dont even know where to begin. Oh and my doc is starting me off at 30mg for 2 weeks, then bump it up to 60 mg for 4 more weeks then check. Is this right?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Patticia. No need to be afraid of Armour. Many people are still reporting as to how well they’re doing on it if they get optimal.
Start by reading this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And no we don’t start on only 30 mg. We start on 60 mg. And no we don’t wait another month for a raise. That can cause a return of hypothyroid symptoms to go that long. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 Because she needs to understand this better by you.
Vicki. Gattuso
I tried to order Ultimate Iron By Enzymatic Therapy & it’s not available. Does anybody have any information on that product. Geez losing our good NP’s and now this!
peggy
Ultimate Iron is currently available at Vitacost.
Linda Osmond
Hi, Jannie. Sorry, but I have a couple more questions that I thought of after posting the previous list. So, to continue… 5) Has anyone become optimal on the OTC bovine products alone, or they always need to be complimented with an Rx of NDT or other? 6) Is rice filler a better option (in general) over micro crystalline cellulose in compounded? 7) I had Isabella Wentz (AKA the Thyroid/Hashi’s Pharmacist) tell me that the sustained-release form of compounded T3 can be problematic for those with auto-immunity. She recommended taking it more often throughout the day vs the sustained-release. I’d have to look back at why that was. Are you familiar with this issue? I do understand about the short half-life of T3, but don’t recall if that was the issue in this case or something else related. Thank you so much!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s odd about the bovine products, because with Thyrovanz especially there a certain body of people who see themselves with quite high rt3 as if bovine thyroid has more T4 than human thyroid, this converting the excess to rt3. Others state they feel pretty good on it. Even Nutri-meds is having happy patients. I would sure keep an eye on the free T3, free T4, and RT3 on the bovines supplements, just in case.
I personally think that anything is better than the cellulose….
As far as T3 and Hashimoto’s, most have done quite well with it. And we learned early on, as reported by STTM, to multi-dose it whether we have hashi’s or not. As far as slow-release, and though some seem happy with it, we have just found it better to do direct T3. The problem was slow-release T3 is that some of it can make its way to the small intestine still unreleased, and you just poop it out. It’s a theory proposed by Dr John C. Lowe…
Terry Kopf
I tried 150 mg of Thyrogold since I was taking 120 mg NP. My TSH went up from .006 to 3.5 in 8 weeks. I was continuing to take 20-25 mcg of T3 that I took with the NP. I increased my dose of ThyroGold to 300 mg and same T3 and my TSH went up to 5.35 6 weeks later. No point in increasing the TG at that point. I went on 24 mcg Tirosint and T3at 37.5 mcg and had huge anxiety and insomnia plus headache. Dropped T3 to 20 mcg and anxiety and insomnia went away but I felt “ill” and extremely tired. My poor body just loves this bouncing around. Two days ago I started taking Tirosint around 2:30 AM and T3 at 7AM when I got up ..then the balance of 20 mcg T3 at 3 pm and everything seems to be settling down. Will do new labs in 5 weeks.
Linda Osmond
Hi, Janie. I don’t know what we all would do without your great information and support. Thank you! So, I turned to your site (again) when the NP changed. One pill told me that, and your site confirmed and gave further info. I’m on my last good bottle of OLD NP Thyroid and am looking to make a switch to ….possibly Armour. I have a few questions: 1) What did you personally decide to do/try after NP went awry, and how is it going? 2) Did I read correctly that another company just bought out Armour??? And do we know anything about those changes yet, particularly if there will be product changes? 3) I called my mail-order pharmacy to check on prices of Armour. It was quite strange that lower dose pill was twice the price of a higher dose one! I wonder if that could possibly reflect the current stock / mfg (lower price) and a new stock that has changed (higher price)? Any ideas? 4) I had heard about NP being subbed for Armour. I asked the pharmacist if NP was now generic for Armour, and with some checking he said it is indicated that way. What??? 5) If looking into switching from NP to compounded or synthetic, does one begin with the current T4, T3 amounts in the optional old NP tablets and go from there to optimize?
Sorry for the list of questions, but I have an appointment on Monday to discuss this with my new or temporary doctor. Sure hope there is openness there. I appreciate you!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
I still have a lot of former NP.
Almost a year ago, it was announced that AbbVie would be buying out Allergan and they will merge…
I’m not sure about the pricing. a
All I know is that these pharmaceuticals could care a flip about any of us as thyroid patients other than to make money….
Murray Duffin
https://news.abbvie.com/news/press-releases/abbvie-completes-transformative-acquisition-allergan.htm
Michelle
I switched from NP back to Armour with high hopes, but I’m experiencing weight gain, hair falling out, and muscle aches. At least no heart palps. I’m getting labs done this week so will see what my numbers look like. I’m considering synthetics (sigh). But what I wanted to point out is that Allergan was bought by Abbvie just last week. It’s no wonder we can’t get optimal or straight answers! These pharmaceutical companies change hands like underwear! I wonder what that’ll mean for Armour. Like you’ve said, Janie, it’s all about money, not consistent patient care.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. You either stayed on too low a dose, or it’s now revealing you have an adrenal problem and/or low iron due to having been on NP. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Yes, it’s allllll about money with pharmaceuticals.
Joanne
Thanks, Janie. So is anyone out there that would at least begin just a conversation (early in the game) about testifying before the United States Congress in light of what is going on regarding ” Big Pharma ” and thyroid medications.
I feel totally disregarded by them while they tamper with and manipulate the medications for the sake of big bucks and greed. I resent that I can not contact RLC labs to just ask a question. How much longer will this travisty to on? Any comments….?!
Janie Bowthorpe
Here’s what I can do. I can start a blog post about this and your desire to get volunteers to speak to Congress. Even better, it can be a STTM Guest blog post I’ll put up from you. But you’re going to need to do a lot of homework first as to how it all works, and whether it will work. i.e. what kind of power has Congress taken in the past against big pharma, how to present this in the most powerful way, and anything related. This will need to be more than just our emotion and our disgust. Either you’ll need to do quite a lot of research and study yourself or find people reading this who have some experience with preparing this and can help. It will take needed homework and preparation, and Stop the Thyroid Madness will definitely support it… And that support in turn will create a huge following.
Joanne
Hi Janie,
Thanks for responding.
In reading it, is there a way we can communicate privately to discuss in a little more detail what this would involve? Being relatively new to the site I wanted to inquire about that kind of communication without violating or hurting anything. I am a novice at all of this.
Take care and thanks so much for what you do….
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m not an expert on it, even though I’ve thought about it many times over the years considering how badly thyroid patients suffer due to the madness out there. I’m just extremely busy with all I do…more than people realize. So it needs others who are interested. I think you need to first just do an internet search of what it involves.
Joanne
Ok.. will at least give it a try and research this kind of endeavor. Thanks much for your input so far.
Joanne
Mary
Hi Joanne,
I was reading your interest in trying to work with Congress in improving access to quality thyroid products and am interested in helping.
Thanks,
Mary
CYNTHIA GREEN
Yessss!! I would get involved. There are a lot of us who will literally die if we get any worse!
Joanne
Considering all of the reading that I do on this wonderful site that Janie started about this horribly disappointing issue related to thyroid medications, there must be something we can all do to mitigate this.Too much needless suffering is sad and disheartening, to say the least.
I was wondering if in the US some of us ( when the virus is over ) could go before the Senate and testify ( like you see on TV ) when citizens ban together and plead their cases on various issues and such. Stand up to the Big Pharma and let our voices be heard. Expose what is going on. Maybe get a bill started. Our well being and our future health is at stake here. And Chris spoke of the Chinese… what is that all about ?
Anyone weigh in as to this suggestion. Has it been done before?
Thanks for reading and best to all of you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Since I, Janie, can’t do everything, these kind of actions will always be supported by me.
Starr D.
Hi, Joanne. I admire you for even thinking about trying to get something done like
this, to make changes for the better for thyroid patients. It isn’t right how these
companies get away with making changes that can really affect some patients
badly….and this has been going on for years, with both synthetic and natural
thyroid meds.
I first got hit with something like this back in 1982-83, when the manufacturer
of Synthroid at the time made changes in it without having to test the new
version for safety & effectiveness on anyone. That’s because they said they
left the active ingredient alone, but it was the inactive ingredients they messed
around with–and the inactive ingredients can affect how you use and absorb
the main, active ingredient. They also changed the assaying method used,
too, and someone at a different pharmaceutical company told me he’d heard
at that time Synthroid may have changed where they got their ingredients from,
too–from the United States to elsewhere in the world, and that can make a
difference. After I finally found out these changes happened, I called a lot of
people to see what could be done. Finally spoke to some higher-up at the
FDA who told me, “You need an act of Congress to get changes made–
the FDA can’t (won’t) do anything, otherwise.” Well, I couldn’t pull this
off by myself. The internet wasn’t big then, either, to reach out to others.
And today’s Synthroid remains, as far as I know, the more inferior version
than it was before 1982-83. I know the T-4 meds aren’t so popular on
this site, and I do understand that. Old Synthroid wasn’t perfect, even for me–
I’m just saying that pre-1982 Synthroid worked better than more recent
versions, for at least some patients (this was written up in a Federal
Register report in 1997 or ’98, so it isn’t just my opinion.)
I’ve been on many different thyroid drugs since, and I’m still not well. I’ve
been through these changes when WP and NP thyroid worked better for
awhile, and then they didn’t. And when Levoxyl was changed in the early
’90s and didn’t need to be tested, etc, etc. You’re right–this entire scene is
a big mess for all thyroid patients. I hope you can figure out a way to get
something done about this–although I’m not well, if you’d like to talk more
about this with me or anything, please let me know. Starr D.
Chris
Backstory: Hi, I’m 56, Hashi/Low T for 25+ years, male, former athlete. Armour for years, no real problems, ( even with the Armour to Erfa switch) SUDDENLY a bad ERFA batch around 2014, (the very day I took that bad batch, my eyes would move properly, just an hour after taking the pill and I became exhausted as the drug absorbed, just like taking a benadryl) ever worsening results despite trying more Erfa, then WP and NP. Switched to 75mcg T4 and 135 NDT to get labs right. Sleep a lot, instant loss of energy/stamina when active (workouts can’t be finished due to hard crash) , feel horrible. Tried 10mg prednisone and problems resolved quite well. Unfortunately docs took me off of pred. 2019 labs = T4 low/T3 high. So doc switches me to 175 synthroid. Labs OK, but I’m non functional, gaining a pound per week, can’t work, can’t think, life destroyed. The talk about pooling makes me think I had the issue on NDT, related to low cortisol. I’ve always known I don’t do well on T4 alone. Doc’s don’t listen and quite frankly, often don’t know what they are doing. We suffer due to this.
I strongly suspect the NDT manufacturers are sourcing the desiccated thyroid from the Chinese. While the drugs test correctly for thyroid levels, the “observational results” of patient’s symptoms (mine and others) (which are valid and not anecdotal, remember anecdotal means unreliable) tell a correct story. These drugs don’t work like the old “American sourced” drugs did. I suspect some form of contaminate that is not being tested for. It’s time we start a company that makes an American thyroid product for the American market.
Nonie
Big Pharma got to them.
Diane Valenti
How long does it take after switching from NDT to T4/T3 to feel better? I am so tired of being tired.
Janie Bowthorpe
You will feel better as you make your way to up optimal. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal If you have problems getting there, check your iron and cortisol: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol
Diane Valenti
Thanks, Janie! I am excellent on iron and inflammation. But, cortisol is low. Plan to start trying Rhodiola Rosea on Sunday when it comes in. I actually felt pretty darn good on NP (about 85% normal) even with low cortisol.
I am sooooo disappointed that it changed and that we are powerless to do anything about it. How many adverse event reports does the FDA need to receive before they step in?! These pharma companies are required by law to submit reports of adverse events to the FDA. So, the FDA knows what is going on. I just don’t understand why they don’t act.
Janie Bowthorpe
Diane, if you did a saliva cortisol test and it proves low cortisol, taking rhodiola or any adaptogens has never done the job for us. Where adaptogens have helped is if the saliva cortisol pattern is a see-saw, like L, H, L, H or vice versa. And we take adaptogens at least 3 times a day for that kind of pattern. And it’s always about saliva, NOT blood.
And feeling good on NP can be more about rising adrenaline or cortisol due to it actually not being good. So the feeling good always backfires.
Diane Valenti
Oh… good to know. I have done all other adaptogens, glandulars, and HC. HC gave me scary high blood pressure.
My next step is to try CT3M. Don’t think that there is anything else left that I haven’t tried. What do you think? Good idea or not? Thanks!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
If HC seems connected to high blood pressure, it can really mean you weren’t using it correctly. That’s why everyone with a very low cortisol problem needs to study chapters 5 and 6 in the updated revision sttm book.
Naomi Klahn
I recently purchased “Tyromax” from Ideal Labs, after listening to Georgi Dinkov on the Danny Roddy YT channel. He spoke to the delitarious changes NDT, and that bovine NDT was better, and unadulterated.It’s difficult to know if the Bovine NDT is making a difference, as I also suffer from Meniere’s Disease, so medications take a while to ‘work’.
I also purchased “Thyroid Glandular” (200mg of bovine thyroid gland per capsule) & Lugol’s iodine 2% drops (do you have information on iodine drops?)
Windy
Is anyone supplementing NatureThroid with Thyrovanz or other OTC supplements? Is it even a good idea?
I am unable to get tested now due to the virus stay-at-home orders, but want to see if adding something to my current dose helps my symptoms…
What would be a good amount to add to start?
Janie Bowthorpe
Naturethroid has been so awful compared to what it used to be that people are just using an OTC and getting optimal. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Windy
Thanks Janie – my last test levels of FreeT3 of 4.8 and FreeT4 of 1.31 on Naturethroid in December were OK according to my doctor, so I continued on it ( I chew my dose of 3 grains up sublingually with 2 grains in the AM and 1 in the late afternoon)..
I also asked my doctor’s office and pharmacists if they were aware of any issues with it and they said no – all their patients have been fine so far, and no one has been switched to anything else. Really wish I could get tested now, but am self-isolating and don’t want to risk going to a lab for a blood draw right now.
I will be going on Medicare in Sept and may need to look at switching to a t3 t4 combination then due to Medicare not covering NDT anyway. Did I hear you have a group for 60 and over people with Hashi’s like me? How can I access that group?
Janie Bowthorpe
Your free T3 is pooling due to a cortisol problem if the top of the range was 4.2. And a cortisol problem is because Naturethroid is now stressing the adrenals. And pharmacists are very behind, and so many seem to make up stuff, so I’m not surprised what was said. The group is mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others
Windy
Thanks for your quick reply Janie. I am not surprised since I have also been under a lot of stress over the last several years with caretaking of my husband, mother, and father at the end of their lives, the funerals, and as estate executor.
How exactly is NT stressing the adrenals? What is the physiologic mechanism?
I was taking 200 mg of adrenal cortex daily previously, then stopped, and started taking 50 mg daily again in Feb. Perhaps I should go up to 100 mg, or do you think going back to 200 mg would be better to support my adrenals and stop the pooling?
Thank for you assistance with helping me understand how to handle this – I really appreciate it.
Terry Kopf
I went on T4 only Tirosint and Medicare denied it. My doctor then got them to approve it but my Walgreens RX plan through AARP wanted $350 for a 90 day supply of 25 mcg Tirosint! I was able to get it for $120 for 90 days Thru one of the four pharmacies Tirosint licensed to distribute their medicine.
Jennifer
I am also currently on the RLC Nature Throid – have been for YEARS…. I don’t have any symptoms but that being said, my recent labs show my Free T3 at 2.2pg/mL and my Reverse T3 at 10ng/dL and TSH at .10mIU/L. Unfortunately they didn’t run my T4 but my TPO is 165 which is lower than it has been. I am on 4.5mg LDN and 1.75grain of Nature Throid. The issue I have been having is low nightime HRV. In addition, recently (late Feb) I got super sick for the first time since 1998 and it was around the time I would have been ovulating and two weeks later, didn’t get a cycle and still haven’t gotten one. I was having SEVERE nights sweats for four weeks which have finally subsided so not sure if that is thyroid related or not. Not sure what do to or what it means to have Low T3 AND Low TSH. My prolactin levels are 2.2ng/mL. My ND wants me to lower my Nature Throid to 1.5 grain because I think she is looking just at my TSH which I know tends to get suppressed with NDT. I would love ANY advice here that anyone can give? I just don’t know what to do. There is a wonderful company called Ancestral Supplements that makes a natural Thyroid supplement that comes directly from the grass-fed cows and has the FULL spectrum of thyroid hormones in it. Wondering if that could be an avenue to explore instead of NDT – the problem is getting the labs due to thinking it might not be a good idea to be going to labs right now to get blood draws due to COVID. Can anyone provide some feedback? Should I go back and just get another blood draw with the T4 in it? I just would love any kind of feedback or direction – majorly struggling here 🙁
Janie Bowthorpe
Normally, with a good NDT (which Naturethroid isn’t anymore), I’d tell you that are very underdosed if your FT3 is that low (you didn’t put the range, which is important. But I’m assuming it’s at the bottom?). Also, practically no one is optimal under two grains. And even at 2 grains, the majority are not optimal. This is always the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
BUT….we have noticed that Naturethroid has gone south. Practically no one is doing as well as they used to on it. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/ You’ll see alternatives if you scroll down.
Jennifer
The range is 2.3-4.2 for Free T3 with the lab I used. So I am just below the bottom. And my doc wants me to REDUCE my Nature Throid to 1.5 grain instead of the 1.75 I have been taking as she thinks the low TSH is what might be causing my body to stay in sympathetic mode while sleeping thus causing my low HRV. Do you think I should take T3 only? I am reading the Optimal Post and learning…. I assume this Optimal applies to Hashi’s people like me too right?
Janie Bowthorpe
Jennifer, any informed patients would tell you that your doctor is NOT good for you. First, Naturethroid does NOT work anymore. Second, even if it was a good NDT like Armour, you do NOT go by the TSH. You go by the frees whether Hashi’s or any non-autoimmune cause of hypo. I would personally run, run from a doctor like you are describing. But you have to decide.
Jennifer
Janie, thank you so much for your insight… If I may ask another question?
I just found out that my T4 is 1.1 (lab range 0.8-1.8)… (results just hadn’t come back yet and just got them)
I was wondering now how that number plays into my low T3 and suppressed TSH? and do you recommend Armour or what do think would be the best choice for me to switch to? Wondering if T3 only might be better? I read the “OPTIMAL” page….Again, thank you SOOOO much. I am just feeling super defeated at the moment as I FINALLY thought I found a doc that “got it” – such a bummer.
Janie Bowthorpe
The suppressed TSH is seen all the time if one has T3 in their treatment, even a now cruddy NDT like Naturethroid. We see low frees when we are severely hypothyroid. Yes, a lot of patients have done quite well on Armour if they truly understand what optimal means with the free T4 and free T3 (many say they are optimal, and end up not being so. Optimal puts the free T3 at the top area of the range with a midrange FT4.) Did you read the linked page? It shows all the alternatives to consider. And you’re welcome. 🙂
Jennifer
Thank you again Janie, my goodness you are a godsend! Ok I am ordering Armour (WOW it is $$) in the 2 Grain dose. With my T3 just under the lowest end of the range and my T4 at 1.1 (which isn’t quite mid-range), do you think the Amour will help even things out? And when would you recommend I test again after starting on this dose with this new NDT? Thank you SOOOO much again.ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™ðŸ™
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour definitely has been helping as long you get those frees optimal, yes. 2 grains probably won’t make your frees optimal. And yes, it’s expensive and to me, it’s ridiculous to do that to patients.
Lisa Ann
With RLC’s WP having been unavailable for so long, I too had switched to Acela NP and was OK until their “change”. I managed to find a few bottles of the old formula to tide me over and was very excited about WP finally being available, again. I (foolishly?) quickly filled my Rx several times, since it was written last year when WP was still unavailable and is about to expire. (My very hard found “understanding” endo retired last year and I didn’t want to be caught without what works(ed) for me while I find a new doctor.
I see no comments about the quality, or lack of quality for the newly available WP batches. Any information would be very much appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
There are now enough patient comments that it appears WP has been negatively affected, too. it was the last one we weren’t sure about.
Lisa Ann
I am with everyone else, here, in our gratitude for your extensive information and generosity. Thank you for the reply. I have been on 120 NP in the AM and 1/2 or 1/4 130mg WP (they are scored and easily split; less expensive for any of the meds) in the early afternoon, all doses have been taken sublingually, for years (the usual parade of ARMOUR, then ERFA, then WP, then NP, and now…??). Since I already have the WP stocked up in the freezer and am due for labs, I will try going full on WP morning and afternoon and then see where labs go on my regular dose. My GP will request whichever labs I ask for, although she has always been uncomfortable with out of the box treatment. That’s why my Lyme disease went on for 4 years before I found an integrative Lyme literate doctor. Have to do the same, again, for Hypothyroid. 🙁
Any comments are welcome.
Diane Valenti
I was using Thyrovanz. It seemed to work for awhile and then stopped. I think my RT3 got too high. I tested just over the range after being on Thyrovanz for a week and a half. I am waiting to see my doc, delays due to covid 19, and need to get retested. In the meantime, I tried Nutrimeds. I feel awful. I am having a difficult time just functioning. I may try Armour and then ideally get on the synthetics. I need to do something as I am self-employed. I don’t have the luxury of sleeping all day on the couch because I am so tired I feel drugged. I was doing great, best in years, on the NP Thyroid until it changed.
Janie Bowthorpe
A high RT3 has been seen before on Thyrovanz. It’s made us wonder if cows have a higher amount of T4 that humans don’t need, thus driving the RT3 up to clear out the excess T3.
But also make sure that your high RT3 isn’t driven up by inadequate iron, inflammation, or high cortisol. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Maureen Rizzo
Hi, Janie
And hope all enjoyed what they could of Easter this year.
Beginning of March, endo started me on 15 mg Armour. Had to beg for this. I am 64, a good 64. My thyroid labs are in the “normal” range, but not normal, not optimal. This was my first endo visit and it took me 3 months to get the appointment.
I think the doc is so afraid of overtreating me that she will under treat me. When I was into my third week of 15mg, I contacted the doc, via patient portal. I asked if she would increase me to 30 mg, that I still wasn’t feeling great. She said she wouldn’t change anything until I had labs done again. When I first went to endo, I took labs my pcp ordered. TSH was 2.82, Ft3 was 3.2. I wasn’t feeling great. Endo ordered more labs. Beginning of March, about 6 weeks after previous labs, TSH was 3.84, ft4 was 1.1, ft3 was 3.0 Endo said those numbers weren’t too bad, but after being like a lawyer arguing a case, she reluctantly agreed to put me on Armour. Wanted to put me synthroid or levo but I said ‘no’. Started me on the Armour 15 mg….almost nothing. As I said, third week in and I ask for an increase. Endo said more labs first. Had labs done again last week. TSH down a little at 3.48, ft4 1.1, ft3 down to 2.7. No wonder I don’t feel great!
Endo ordered 30mg, still low, and said if I get palpitations to stop taking and call her. My next appointment isn’t until mid June. I guess with all my ranting, just wondering if anyone has tried bovine glandular, otc, and what they thought. I bought a bottle but trying Armour first, and definitely thinking I will need a higher dose of Armour. This could take awhile…..frustrating! Just fyi, reference ranges for labs….tsh (.4–4.5), ft4 (.8–1.8), ft3 (2.3–4.2). Thanks!!
JanBor
I always took 88 mcg of Levo but have tried Unithroid as well. My T3 levels dropped from 3.8 down the 2.6 for the past three years. I have a bottle of cytomel but the Dr wanted me to start with half a pill of cytomel which would be 2.5 mcg. That seems pretty low to move my T3 up. Anyone here start with higher than that? How long does it take once you add T3 onto T4 to see improvements. Last month I tried this and by the end of the week I’d bloated up 10 lbs and was aggravated. I’d rather be on synthetics. Any advice would be great. I just can’t seem to find an NDT that works for me and I need the T3 because I keep crashing on T4 only and my voice is so hoarse. I will say the two improvements I’ve had on NDT is I got my voice back and I haven’t been suffering from hypoglycemia.
On 88 mcg of sythetic T4 my Free T4 levels are usually around 1.7 and Free T3 is 2.6 to 2.8. Do you think it’s okay just to add cytomel on top of what I’m already taking? Do people usually cut it down to like 50 mcg or 75 mcg and then add on T3?
Thanks ya’ll
Janie Bowthorpe
2.5 mcg T3 is so low that’s it’s silly of your doc. If there was any concern, taking 2.5 twice a day is fine, then move up every week. This is your goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
But if on that synthetic T4, your FT4 is that high (you didn’t give a range, but it seems high up in range??), it either means you can lower the T4, or it means our RT3 is moving up. FT4 moves up at first as RT3 goes up. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Joanne Seward
Hi Janie.
Sent you a prior message. Sending another. What is it about the actual WP tablet as to what and how they changed them. Do they add, take away, falsify, cheapen it, etc.? Does anyone know what they actually did to them? Terribly sad to everyone who is on WP. Thanks for responding.
Have a blessed Easter.ðŸ™
Joanne
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Joanne. We don’t know what changed, other than their source of porcine powder having an unknown issue. It’s the same for Naturetroid, and the same for NP Thyroid. Even Erfa in Canada changed. It’s very sad.
Joanne
Ah ha…they specifically changed the powder. Wonder the source. Thanks much for the detail I was looking for. Too bad RLC Lab is sooo hard to deal with. Slap in the face to people with thyroid issues or who don’t have one like me. Hope your Easter was lovely.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s our guess. We can’t prove it, but seems likely. And thank you about Easter. 🙂
Michele
Just a note to let you know that I changed from my beloved NDT of 35 years to Synthroid and Cytomel. Did that 2 weeks ago. Each day I feel more like myself and am actually pretty shocked. No testing done as my NP is out on maternity leave and I’m self-isolating, but I do feel better, and am sleeping better once again. And, per Janie’s comments, I am still able to take both synthetics sublingually and that makes me a happy camper.
Janie Bowthorpe
That’s great, Michele. Once you can get tested, this is your goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
BARBARA J. PETERS
how do you dose if you are on 75mg of erfa am and 45 pm . my dr. wants to prescribe time release compounded in capsules in oil. can’t break them up. i feel terrible again and losing hair like crazy. thanks a lot
Michele
Hi Barbara, I’m not a doctor, but if I remember correctly, one grain (usually 60-65 mcg) of NDT is approximately 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. Hope that helps.
Joanne
Hi Janie,
Hope you are well and safe.
In reading comments and much info on this website, you speak of how WP Thyroid changed as well. Can you tell me in what way. On 65mg 2/per day and have celiac but sneezing more. What exactly changed?
Thanks so much.
Janie Bowthorpe
At first, we weren’t sure that WP had changed like Naturethroid had. But over time, we started seeing a growing amount of comments that people weren’t doing as well on it as they used to. They reported still seeing hypothyroid symptoms. And several have been reporting high RT3…and several have been reporting pooling. i.e. we’re seeing a lot of results that pertain to an adrenal problem. And as we thought about it, we weren’t surprised. We have been guessing they’re using the same source of desiccated thyroid as naturethroid began to use.
And of course, reporting what we’ve been seeing makes a few people angry or defiant, stating they feel fine on WP. But they don’t realize it’s only a matter of time before they crash.
Joanne Seward
So do you think the ingredients changed, or the integrity of the ingredients. What do mean by pooling specifically?..this is such a shame for all that are on it and don’t feel as well as before including myself. Like you said it’s all about the money..
But what changed with the tablets?.Thanks again, dear. You are a voice for sure.
Michelle
I’m so grateful for this website! Like many others, I have been on a thyroid roller coaster over the years. Being seriously under-medicated in 2017 led to heart disease and a nearly fatal heart attack at 43 years old. I fought my way back off of heart meds with diet and exercise and was feeling better, having found an expensive functional med doc willing to adjust my NP until optimal, only to start nose-diving again over the past several months with all of the usual hypo symptoms. But also my legs have been super tight and achy and recently my heart started pounding and/or skipping beats with periods of dizziness and shortness of breath. I’ve been scared to death until I learned of the NP changes and read that others on here are having similar problems. I’m relieved to know I’m not alone and that I can take action before I land back in the cardiac unit. I have some left-over armour that I started today in the hopes that the heart palps will stop, but I had switched from armour to NP because it stopped working so I don’t think that’s the answer. I don’t want to go back to traditional synthetics because I feel natural is usually better (though maybe not anymore?), and I’m very sensitive to the fillers. So that leaves compounding pharms or OTCs? Sadly, I couldn’t afford to continue paying the functional med doc out of pocket, so I’m with a new endo dr, and I feel like I need to go to her armed with knowledge and ready to fight for what I think I need. Or just go it on my own with one of the OTCs I’ve seen recommended on here, though I’ve never gotten labs without a dr’s order so not sure how that works. Any information from others finding success with specific pharms or OTCs would be greatly appreciated!
Laura
I too am on NP and have heart palpitations! I started getting them last year when I was on Armour (in the Spring of 2019) and have been on a thyroid journey since. The best they’ve been alleviated was on levothyroxine, but I don’t understand why when NDT is in all the literature so much better providing the support of T3. I’m so frustrated! I did well for years on NDT and now it’s all gone down hill with the heart palpitations being the worst! I feel your pain!
JT
So what is left to take then???? Which thyroid med works for hashimotos??? I have celiac disease so I can’t have gluten.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, since it’s the source of the ingredient starch that is problematic, you night need to contact any company to see if the source is wheat. Or this: https://pillbox.nlm.nih.gov/pillimage/search.php Armour’s starch is potato, for example.
Sam Elkins
WPThyroid doesn’t have fillers like Armour and NT and mysterious yuck of NP. I see people doing well on it locally and online. I would try it. I have been on it again for a year and feel great. Getting optimal is important. Its possible on WP.
Janie Bowthorpe
And a lot aren’t doing okay on WP. Some feel they’re doing okay, but we also notice they eventually crash.
Joanne
Hi Janie,
Thinking of switching to Tirosint or Tirocint Sol. Do you happen to have an opinion on either?
Thanks for your reply. You are a god send for thyroid medication issues.
Janie Bowthorpe
Either are fine for the T4. You still want to add T3. 🙂 And get both the frees optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And glad to help. 🙂
Michele Zeitter
I have been on 90mg of Armour for a long time. Still don’t feel like myself- body aches, fatigue, etc. but my doctor wouldn’t increase my dose last time I asked. How do I find one that will? I live in Grand Rapids, MI.
Janie Bowthorpe
90 mg is so low that it’s crazy that your doctor won’t let you raise!! “Do no harm” has been thrown in the trash. They are just clueless about all this. One way: call pharmacies and ask the name of a doctor that is prescribing Armour. Keep calling. If that doesn’t work, patients are adding OTC ones with the prescription like NutriMeds or Thyrovanz. Remember to get optimal frees.
Michele Zeitter
Thank you! I will try that! 😊
Dawn
Hi again Janie,
Sorry for the multiple questions. My dr is not seeing patients now and is available only for emergencies. I have about two weeks left of my good NP left.
Is it okay to take my 90mg NP in the morning, then take a thyroid supplement, such as GTA Forte for my evening dose instead of taking my 15 mg. NP? I searched online and could not find an answer for this. Is it okay to mix the two?
Thank you a million times over for your guidance!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Perfectly ok. And you are very welcome. 🙂
Dawn
Just a quick “thank you!!” 🙂
Michele
I have a question for those who have changed to Synthroid and Cytomel. I finally did after much frustration. I used to take my Armour, Erfa, NP sublingually. I was looking online and it said Synthroid should be swallowed with a glass of water. Before reading that, I chewed it and mine was sweet and easy to get down….and I took the Cytomel sublingually. Can these medications be chewed or taken sublingually to avoid one more thing having to be processed by the liver? My Synthroid and Cytomel were Rx’d for me in 2017 (I saved them) and didn’t work for me back then, but with all that is happening, I hope it works now. I am on a totally different way of eating for the last 2 years, so I’m hoping it will work. Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, they can be chewed plus done subingually.
Michele
Thank you Janie. You are such a treasure to so many of us with your exceptional knowledge.
Janie Bowthorpe
I so appreciate your kind words. 🙂
Dawn
Hi Janie,
First of all, you are a Godsend. Thank you immensely for all of your hard work and dedication. You are truly an angel here on earth.
I am at the last weeks of my good NP. I saw previous comments about the medication from Thailand. I could not find the ingredients and would hate to order it and not be able to take it. I have Celiac Disease, Dairy/Egg allergies. Do you know where I can find the ingredients? Do I need an rx from an MD to order this? Lastly, would the porcine powder be the same that’s now infected all NDT’s?
Thank you so much for any guidance! Be well and safe!
Janie Bowthorpe
You are very kind. Ingredients listed here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands
It appears most all porcine powder is coming from the same lousy source. The only exception is Armour.
Dawn
Thank you so much, Janie. This was very informative! I think I will go back to Armour and hope for the best. To be rid of Covid and have Armour circa 2004 would be absolute Heaven! I appreciate you taking the time to help me. Be well.
Debra Shavitz
Janie: BTW, my first comment was February 26, when the heart palpitations started. I hadn’t changed to Armour at that time
Debra Shavitz
Don’t know how to restart. I am 68, been on NDT since 42. Was doing fine on Nature throid. As manufacturer’s changed prescriptions, I’ve tried different ones. Still fatigued in afternoon. Last good dose was 90mg. of Armour. Over the last month, my heart palpitations are coming more frequent and longer, which is why I had tried NP thyroid and then Armour. 10 days ago, I had a cramp in my calf muscle. Darted out of bed to walk it off into bathroom. Next minute I knew my husband was walking me to be after picking me up off the floor, where I hit my right side skull really hard, but must have blacked out. I was dizzy, nauseous, vomitted, and pooped. Took 2 days of constant rest and sleeping, then another 5 to fully recover and feel less dizzy. Did vertigo excercise. Went to a cardiologist–nothing abnormal. However, I stopped all thyroid meds, and my compounded hormones, and slowly going back on vitamins. I’m still getting bouts of high racing pulse for sometimes 1/2 hour, sometimes 1 or 2 hours. Since being off of things for 10 days, and not much change, I want to start going back on, but what should I start with? Oh, BTW, I tried a couple of tests for Adrenals. I have no problem with pupil test. But I drop 10 points on Systolic BP when sitting to standing. No other symptoms. And also my temps are low and fluctuate more than .2 through out the day. Since weaning is not helping, which med should I start with first to add back on?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Honestly, 90 mg gets practically no one optimal. This is always where you should have been: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Thus, without being optimal, it all backfires as it has for you. But it’s going to be impossible to get optimal now because it appears you have both a cortisol problem and an aldosterone problem as a result. Either will cause you to have hyper-like symptoms as you raise.
Read this as it’s what you will need to do now: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol
And you’ll need to test your aldosterone to see how bad it is. Mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone
And temp comparisons are not about each individual temp per day.
In the meantime, you could try one grain and see how you do. If you do fine, maybe 1 1/2 grains, but no higher right now until you do the latter tests.
Debbie Shavitz
I take blood tests and saliva tests regularly (about every 6 months). I don’t seem to have any of the listed symptoms on the aldosterone list, as well as my potassum and sodium are usually spot on. My last 4 times cortisol test showed low around 12:00 noon and early evening before dinner. So I think that can explain the drop in BP when standing. In the past I would get that feeling when the doctor tried to reduce my thyroid meds. I did the pupil test today and I don’t have problems holding the dialation.
Seems like my thyroid meds were not getting me optimal, so is that why cortisol started getting too low. So won’t I be able to reverse that once I get optimal on the thyroid meds?
I will start back on Armour Thyroid tomorrow am (1/2, then 1? or start right away on 1)? And should I take Pure Encapsultions Xtra Energy, which is Adaptogens (Ashwaganha, Eleuthero, Rhodiola, and Asian Ginseng) for Adrenals,which doctor gave me, or get something stronger?
Thanks,
Debbie
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Debbie. The pupil test helps but doesn’t always show the aldosterone problem. The only way to know is to do the aldosterone blood test. Because dropping 10 points on Systolic BP when sitting to standing is very suspicious for low aldosterone. The aldosterone page explains where we need to fall.
You can’t get optimal on thyroid meds if you have a cortisol problem. You have to treat the cortisol and aldosterone problem in order to get optimal. Lots of years of experiences on this. Chapter 6 in the updated revision STTM book explains a lot.
For saliva results, adaptogens only work when saliva results are like a seesaw, such as H, L, H, L or vice versa. And this needs to be based on a saliva test less than 3 months old. See chapter 6.
Debbie Shavitz
Okay, I just ordered your updated STTM book to help me. I will talk to my doctor about Aldosterone test when office is reopened. In the meantime, while waiting, should I buy some Thorne Adrenal Cortex so I am ready to start helping my adrenals?
Today I took 1/2 60mg pill of Armour in am and another at 1:00. Thought I should start back slowly after being off 10 days?) Was on a 2 hour bike ride, no problem. After taking the second Armour, started to get a racing heart, so I put some HC cream on my forearm, and I don’t know if it was a coincidence, but the heart settled down pretty quick.
BTW, I do take Ithyroid 6.25mg of Iodine and usually 25mg of DHEA, but I was holding that off too. Should I be taking the above?
Thanks for all your help
Janie Bowthorpe
What to do is always based on a recent saliva test.
Debbie Shavitz
Janie: Just a follow up and question. I am up to 2 each 60 mg Armour thyroid and taking some Adrenal support I had in the house along with a little hydrocortisone cream. I received a bottle of Ultra Enterprises Raw Adrenal Cortex 200mg the other day and started taking one of those and I’ll stop the hydro cream and only take one of the adrenal support herbs. So far temperatures climbing and I am not dizzy on standing up from sitting, and BP increases when I test it from sitting to standing, so I’m doing better.
But this morning, I got a small bout of high pulse. So I was wondering, can I cut the Adrenal Cortex and take half a pill when I first get up without food, as far as you know? Because I was putting on the cream first thing in the morning. Also, I am taking some extra iodine liquid, but expect to pick up some 6.25mg Ithroid pills later today. I will take some blood tests on iron soon. And I could add some himalayan salt to my drink in the morning. I already take a lot of vitamin C, among lots of other stuff. Any other suggestions of what may cause my higher pulse that I should test?
I am also starting to keep track of temperatures so I can see where I am at with adrenals and thyroid supplements, and I will take another 4x cortisol test, but I would like to be on it for a time and see if I have it figured out, before I have to stay off of adrenal support for two weeks before the testing.
BTW, got your book and I’m making my way through it. Thank you, for your help. Debbie
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Debbie. It’s hard to comment without seeing your initial saliva cortisol test. This is not something we guess about. And we can’t redo saliva cortisol testing while on cortisol.
Debbie Shavitz
My last 4x cortisol was done in Nov, 2019 Results were .273 at 8am; .059 at 1pm; .068 at 5 pm; and .025 at 10pm. Ref ranges: .097-.337; .027-.106; .013-.068; and less than .034 So my 1st thing in am and 2nd were a little low. And my Cortisol Awakenng Response only raised 40%, expected should be greater than 50%. My DHEA was 11 on ref range 71-640
I really wasn’t having much problem with light headed ness until my pulse started going high in late Feb. so I started trying different brands of NDT. Then when I fell, I stopped thyroid and my BP dropped upon standing. So I started supplementing with HC cream 1% when I got a high pulse. And then some Adrenal support. It has been better for about 4 days.
My belief is that I need “optimal” thyroid supplementation and a little bit of adrenal support in the morning to straighten things out. Although, I have sleepiness feeling a lot of the day and especially mid afternoon and I still have to figure out where that is coming from? But the one question I had was if I could take Raw Adrenal supplement (by Ultra first thing in the morning without food), if you knew?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Can you repost the results in a row, one below the other, but put the ranges right next to each result please? Would make this easier to read.
Janie
Debbie Shavitz
SORRY
My last 4x cortisol was done in Nov, 2019 Results were:
.273 at 8am; rr .097-.337
.059 at 1pm; rr .027-.106
.068 at 5 pm; rr .013-.068
.025 at 10pm. rr less than .034
I think in am and 2nd were a little low.
DHEA was 11 ; rr 71-640
And my Cortisol Awakenng Response only raised 40%, expected should be greater than 50%.
Thanks, Debbe
Debbie Shavitz
Janie: I have been taking the last month to get lots of testing done. My main problems are fatigue (although it does not prevent my active lifestyle), just tired to get up in the morning and tired in afternoon. But mainly I have been having a racing heart, which seemed to start when my doctor reduced my NDT because of low TSH numbers, and I kept switching brands of NDT due to formulation changes. See my previous posts. Here is my new test results and some of the things I have done, but still having the above problems, although heart palpitations are less frequent. Any insights would be appreciated. Thank You, Debbie Shavitz
date test results range 11/19 results
4/27/2020 IRON, TOTAL 88 45-160
IRON BINDING 288 250-450
% SATURATION 31 16-45
FERRITIN 44 16-288
4/29/2020 ALDOSTERONE 11.3 normal
(over 24 hours)
5/15/2020 IODINE 958 52-109
(I just realized I was taking 12.5 mg supplement for a month instead of my 6.25mg
and also took one 4 hours before test!!)
4/12/2020 DHEA
(saliva) 8:00 AM 21 71-640
CORT RATIO/10,000 45 358-2,538 Sep-19
(on 2 1/2 grains of NDT) (on 1 grains of NDT) (1 1/2 gr)
cort :8:15 am 0.465 .097-.337 0.273
cort: 12:40 pm 0.133 .027-.106 0.059
cort : 5:00 pm 0.1 .013-.068 0.068
cort 10:30 pm 0.022 <.034 0.025
4/12/2020 Estradiol 6.7 2.9-13.7 11.3
(saliva) Estrone 81 36.6-253.2 54.8
Estriol 177 <135 232
Testosterone 140 34-183 41
Progesterone 1050 52-850 1614
P/E2 Ratio 157 10-106 143
5/28/2020 TSH 0.01 .4-4.5 0.253 0.008
T3 REVERSE 15 8.0-25.0 13 17.5
THYROGLOBULIN AB <1 < OR= 1
THYROID PEROX AB 1 <9
FREE T4 1.5 .8- 1.8 0.83 1.17
FREE T3 4.2 2.3-4.2 2.3 3.3
5/8/2020 MTHFR MUTATION C677T HETEROZYGOUS
5/8/2020 MICRONUTRIENTS
selenium deficient
serine deficient
biotin borderline
glutathione borderline
oleic acid borderline
pantothenate borderline
vit. B3 borderline
glutamine normal
asparagine normal
choline normal
insolital normal
manganese normal
calcium normal
zinc normal
copper normal
magnesium normal
glucose-insulin interaction normal
chromium normal
cysteine normal
coq10 normal
alpha lipoic acid normal
CHANGES SO FAR:
stopped Iodine and will retest in a few months
stopped adrenal support and extra adrenal
will get transdermal hormones tweeked
I added back DHEA 25mg supplementation
And for now staying on 2 1/2 grains of thyroid
Added 18mg of Heme Iron daily
STILL FATIGUED DURING THE DAY AND HARD TO GET UP IN THE MORNING
MY BIG PROBLEM WITH HEART PALPITATIONS IS MORE UNDER CONTROL
BUT HAPPENED AGAIN YESTERDAY.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi there Debbie. Sorry what you are going through. 🙁 Honestly, it’s hard for me to get through that much info on just this blog post. Forgive me. So in the meantime, you’ll see where you have problems by comparing your results to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Debbie Shavitz
Sorry, let me ask the important questions only:
My iron numbers were in the normal range but not quite optimal, so I figured I would start by adding a little and I’ll retest in a few months. I was off for 10 days before testing.
Adrenals and aldosterone came out fine. And all my thyroid numbers came out optimal.
My DHEA is LOW
My Progesterone is High
My Selenium low
and I found out I was taking too much iodine supplement, so numbers were huge and I just stopped it about a week ago. I still get heart palpitations ocasionally (maybe the iodine?).
And still get sleepy during the day and rough time getting up, even though my cortisol is good.
4/27/2020 IRON, TOTAL 88 45-160
IRON BINDING 288 250-450
% SATURATION 31 16-45
FERRITIN 44 16-288
T3 REVERSE 15 8.0-25.0
Progesterone 1050 52-850
DHEA(saliva) 8:00 am 21 71-640
And this looks optimal?
FREE T4 1.5 .8- 1.8 ( was .83 on 1 grain; 1.15 on 1 1/2 grains)
FREE T3 4.2 2.3-4.2 ( was 2.3 on 1 grain and 3.3 on 1 1/2 grains)
So I am assuming I should stay on the 2 1/2 grains, right?
Hopefully I cut this down enough. Thanks for the help.
Debbie
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Debbie. Iron results, like any results including your question about the frees at the end, have nothing to do with just falling in the normal range. You really need to take your results to this page and compare: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values It will answer your questions. 🙂
Debra Shavitz
Janie: Since I have stopped Iodine supplementation, I have not experienced heavy heart palpitations, so we may have solved that. However, not I am very sleepy most of the day and hungrier than normal.
Would you know if that is that a symptom of stopping Iodine and how long would excessive Iodine get out of your system, where I can test it again?
Thanks, Debbie
Carole Benkendorf
For the past year I’ve been getting compounded thyroid pills via a local
Pharmacy in Arizona. Two months ago I was told no one could get the powder anymore, reason unknown. For the past few months I’ve been in nature-throid 3/4 grain. I had shoulder surgery in January and have been in physical therapy for 5 weeks. I’ve been blaming my awful symptoms on those two things. I’ve gained 25 pounds but I walk and do my pt routine daily, my ankles and hands are swollen and ache, my knees are painful, so is my hip. I have a lot more common hypo symptoms too. My daughter mentioned that there are negative reporting about NT. I’m stopping it today and contacting my NMD. Interesting, last month my neuro suggested out of the blue that I might want to consider trying a synthetic for awhile because of all the problems ndt patients are having. However, she could not prescribe. Anyway, here I am miserable. Thanks for all your personal comments. Carole
Janie Bowthorpe
If you want to follow years of wisdom from thyroid patients, do not accept being put on nothing but T4. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Instead, request both T4 and T3 and work to become optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Carole Benkendorf
Hi Janie
I had my labs and more done by my pcp. Since naturethroid my tsh has tripled in 2 months. I do best just below 1.0. It’s now 2.30. She does labs a bit different than my NMD (he’s unavailable due to a loss) T3 total 117 and T4 8.9 (Sonora Q). In search of a reason for my edema because there was nothing in my labs, she had my hormones done. I was referred to my gyno because my labs were high. I Don’t take any hormones, have no ovaries and had my annual with an ultrasound in December. Estrogen 125.1 Progesterone 0.22 Testosterone 12. There is nothing else I take that would effect my usual non existent hormones. Are they lacing naturethroid??? And my cholesterol soared from my January labs. This drug is poison and has wrecked havoc in my body. I’m on synthroid and will be seeing my NMD in a few weeks to sort this out and get optimal. Totally disappointed AND disgusted. I found out RLC is in my own backyard, Cave Creek AZ. PS after stopping Nthroid my edema has slowly dissipated along with other awful symptoms. Proof. Thank you. Carole
Rachel Hamlin
Well the WP seems to give me sweats and I just don’t ‘like’ it – so I found an old bottle of NT while waiting fort his care first pharmacy everyone was talking about. Finally got the carefirst RX in the mail; thought it smelled a bit off so I broke a capsule apart, rubbed the power between my fingers and smelled….. it smells like cat urine like the new NP…
Has anyone gotten a recent batch from this or another compounder that worked and didn’t smell like ammonia?
Maybe I should try Armour despite all the fillers? Try one of these non RX supplements? Try this bovine?
For background I have no thyroid, can’t metabolize synthetic hormones of nay kind, and have Mtfthr, lyme, and chronic EBV……
And now I need to homeschool two 6 year olds……….Help….
Bonnie Medd
After NP went south, I switched to Tirosint-SOL (liquid synthetic T4 with zero fillers) and cytomel. Thinking that the Tirosint would be best as it had no fillers and I’m highly reactive to fillers and changes.
Well, I began the new regimen in early November and I began to get chronic hives and angioedema shortly thereafter. For some ridiculous reason, I never put two and two together that it MIGHT be the Tirosint. I’ve been hospitalized three times because of the severe reactions, still not realizing it happened shortly after changing medication.
I went off Tirosint last weekend (which I had gotten optimal on) and immediately felt better. However, the hives and now vertigo are back. The allergist/immunologist told me my hives were autoimmune related and I just have to wait it out until my body stops attacking itself.
I’m on Thyrovanz now. I’m hoping and praying that once I get optimal again on Thyrovanz that these insidious chronic hives will leave me. I’ve never felt so desperate.
Has anyone else experienced autoimmune hives and angioedema with a medication switch?
Melanie and David R Schrand
Hello there, I am trying to get on the thyroid and adrenal facebook page which i joined and now it is saying this content is not available right now. I tried to remedy this before as it happened to me with another facebook page. I could not do it even though I googled it. I need to be a part of this page. Any suggestions?
Diane Valenti
I could really use a doctor who can help me switch from NP to T3/T4. Saw my endo last week and he wanted to give me T4 only. I am also struggling with adrenal fatigue. I am below the curve on the saliva test. And, I can’t do a lot of the typical treatments because they cause high blood pressure or mimic estrogen. The latter stimulates uterine fibroid growth. Anyway, the endo dismissed adrenal fatigue as non-disease. I am currently self-treating with Thyrovanz and bovine cortisol. Looking into Dr. Wilson’s adrenal protocol. But, sure could use a doc who knows what they are doing to help me. I am totally winging it. I am in the SF Bay area. Help!
ST
Hi there,
fellow hypothyroid here living in Bayarea too. Recently switched from Armour thyroid ( it completely stopped working after 10+ years) to Tirosint & cytomel. Found Dr. Brandford Flagg @ john muir after endless useless endocrinologist visits.
Diane Valenti
ST, thank you so much! I haven’t been on here in awhile because I had given up. I’ll check out Dr. Flagg!
Ellenor Malik
Do you know of anyone with truly no endogenous thyroid, who lives by conversion from T4 alone and has had nearly optimal success (feels normal, BP normal or low, adrenals A+, cholesterol not cause for alarm, actually feels like they’ve gone too high on T3 augmentation therapy)? Like, is that a thing that happens to some people? Do some people just convert really well? Or does everyone have crossover hyper/hypo (as one of my best friends with thyroid failure does) when they try to get optimal on tetra-only?
I’m just curious. Don’t have thyroid dysfunction myself (though it is in the family).
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, there are some who definitely convert T4 to T3 better than others. But…their risk is high to have conversion problems in the face of an illness like the flu/bronchitis/pneumonia etc, having a physical injury, having surgery, acquiring Lyme, being exposed to mold, inflammation of any kind, being under any kind is stress, even aging. And that is not an exhaustive list.
If that person felt hyper with T3, then lower it.
Maya
Hi Janie. Any advice or word on how the Ancestral Supplements brand of NDT works? It’s an absolutely amazing company, and my parents have thrived on many of their other supplements. The bovine is Grass-Fed/Finished from New Zealand, and there are absolutely no fillers added. I am carnivore and my mom is Keto, and we have sensitivities to most fillers in other brands… Especially me to plant-based fillers mostly. I saw that they mentioned your Thyroid expertise on their website as well. I’ d love to get your feedback! Thank you in advance, and God bless you for all that you do!
Janie Bowthorpe
I haven’t seen too many comments from patients about it. So it may just be about trying it out, and watching your free T4 and free T3 to get them optimal. And come back here and report about it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Maya Angela Denton
Thank you so much! I will sure report back. On the Ancestral Supplement site, it states that each pill is 30 mg of Bovine Thyroid. It suggests starting at two pills, and then continuing to add 1 every other week until you reach 8 pills. Would you suggest continuing to rise every other week until I feel optimal or until my labs are optimal, or both? Just would love for you to clarify this for me and my mom, so that no rebound symptoms occur. This is of course, considering the best case scenario regarding the efficiency of the supplements themselves.
Janie Bowthorpe
You could try every other week, but I would want to do the free T3 and free T4 before 8 tabs, just to keep an eye on the raises.
Maya
Excellent. Thank you so much. And lastly… Do you suggest simply getting the labs done on our own, so as not to have to bother with doctors offices who take weeks to simply set up follow up appointments?
Janie Bowthorpe
A lot of us do. 🙂
Fay
Do you think it would help to contact the FDA regarding the inferior, half working NP Thyroid medication that Acella Pharmace is now providing? I am so upset to learn that there is nowhere else to get this medication! I have similar issues to many who have made comments on your blog with a 90 day supply of NP Thyroid that I got in January that tastes like cat pee. I messaged Acella about a week ago and have heard nothing from them except an auto generic reply saying they would contact me.
Susan
It appears I have all the symptoms of the revised NP. For months, napping, lethargy, no interest in anything, just plain feeling so NOT myself. Other than reading all I can on your site and ordering the 2 books (just done), what is my next step? Ask my doc to change rx to Armour? Request a visit with her and ask for a deep dive into labs and see where I am now, or wait and do that after I switch thyroid (or do it now and in a month or so?)? I feel overwhelmed with all of this, and yes, I feel it answers why I have felt so lousy, but what to do now? TIA
Janie Bowthorpe
Not worth waiting. You need to switch asap. Alternatives on this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Susan
Thanks! Have an appt tomorrow.
Dixie
I stopped taking my Armour Thyroid, 1gr (60mg) to see how I felt and no difference that I could tell except my migraines went away. I tried taking it again and got a migraine so I stopped again and they went away. I started taking it again a couple days ago and boom, I have a migraine. I have no symptoms of thyroid issues, I feel fine. My GYN only does the basic TSH 3rd gen. test. Very frustrating.
Heidi
Aloha, I am new here. Does anyone here take over the counter bovine thyroid? The doctor originally put me on levothyroxine, but as soon as I started feeling better he lowered my dose until I felt junk again. So I went to a kenisiogogist who said I needed much more & put me on Pure Thyro 500, a bovine thyroid tissue, initially at 7.69 grains but after awhile I dropped down to half that at 3.85 grains. But more recently they ran out of this product & I couldn’t find it anywhere. So I drastically reduced my dosage plus skipped days just trying to stretch out what little product I had left. Of course then I crashed pretty hard, gained 10 lbs right away plus pain & aches all over, so tired etc. so now I recently found a raw thyroid complex, which has some adrenal & kelp & whatnot in it, but it only has 50 mg of actual bovine thyroid in it. The mg I was taking at the 3.85 grains works out to about 250 mg prior. So that’s way not enough. But then I found a 130 mg raw bovine thyroid and ordered it because I know there is not enough in the new complex I just got but I don’t want to double up on that because it would be doubling the other ingredients in the complex as well. So I figure I will take the complex at 50 mg thyroid, plus the 130 mg raw thyroid and that should bring me up closer to my old range, but not quite. Just wondering how anyone else on bovine is doing etc. I’m trying to figure this out & get myself better. My doctor would only give me the Levo & that didn’t help me.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Heidi. Answer the same as in the 60 group. 🙂 We avoid OTC bovine thyroid that has other ingredients in it, as you’ll be raising those too and my not need them to be raised. We just shoot for optimal frees: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Jan
Anyone with an opinion on Professional Health Products EcoThyro125? Says 125mg of Thyroid Tissue (Thyroid Lyophilized Concentrate; New Zealand Glands/Tissue). My functional doctor gave me when my labs indicated mild hypothyroidism. Don’t see much info about this product, Help! Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
Looks worth a try. But get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
David
I am a 55 year old male in good health and I am seeking some advice and direction for my thyroid medication. In March 2000 I was treated with both ABVD chemotherapy and mantle field radiation to treat Hodgkin’s Lymphoma. In October 2000 I was declared cancer free and have remained so since, thank the Lord. I was put on Synthroid almost immediately, having been informed that my thyroid was no longer active. I remained on Synthroid, 88-112 mcg, switching to the generic Levothyroxine for several years due to financial constraints. Approximately 4 years ago I was introduced to Naturethroid and worked up to a dosage of 113.75 mcg (1-3/4 grain). This worked well for a few years, but in April of 2019 I could no longer find it in my local Las Vegas pharmacies, so I requested to go back to Synthroid, having had “good” results in the past. This didn’t seem to work well, as the dosing of 100 mcg seemed too weak, per the lab results after about 4 months on this dosage. I was then bumped up to 112 mcg and after 8 weeks had minimal change in my hormone levels. I then began taking 175 mcg for 8 weeks, from Dec. 2, 2019 – Jan. 27, 2020 and although my blood test came back solid (TSH =0.08; T4 = 1.5; T3 = 3.8; Reverse T3 = 21), the Reverse T3 was considered high by my research. I was on the 175 mcg for those 8 weeks, only to get a good cycle reading, but I felt absolutely horrible a few weeks after the increase. I put on 15 pounds in the last month on 175 mcg, was extremely lethargic and fatigued, and digestion was at a snail’s pace causing extreme constipation. Looking back, I truly was in a downward spiral after the change to Synthroid and it continually got worse with each increase in dosage, in spite of the lab results.
My question is this, how can those latest results justify the weight gain? Is it the Reverse T3 level, which I understand to coincide with a “starvation” status in my body? Honestly, I didn’t have the “full” understanding of the differences between synthetic T4 and the NDT medications. I do now and I’ve been on Armour (2 grain) for 2 weeks now and feel marginally better, if at all. My weight and digestion have remained the same and not improved at all. I understand that it may take a couple more weeks to start to see marked improvement, but I would love to hear advice and any similar experience by anyone else. I understand all of the NDT varieties have been altered in recent years and not for the betterment of some. Would I be better off switching to a synthetic T3/T4 combination?
If any other information isneeded, I will gladly provide it. Thank you in advance for your comments and advice.
Janie Bowthorpe
RT3 is the inactive hormone, meaning the higher it goes, the more hypo you’ll be. It’s common to see RT3 go up for those who are chasing hypo symptoms from being on nothing but T4…which is a lousy way to treat.
2 grains hardly makes anyone optimal. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Karen C
What about bovine NDT? Been reading on the STTM group mod Danielle uses it. Any comment would be helpful. Thanks so much.
Janie Bowthorpe
It can work but remember to seek optimal frees: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie Bowthorpe
They work! Just keep track of those frees.
Laura
I was put on Armour in 2007, after having my left thyroid lobe and isthmus surgically removed. My right side never woke up after being shut down due to a toxic nodule that I had for 14 years so my dr put me on Armour when I didn’t do well on the synthetics. It changed my life and I felt awesome. Then summer of 2009, after the Armour reformulation, it changed for the worst. I was stuck on it as I didn’t know what else to take, then switched a few years ago to Nature-throid. Bumped up to 2 grains from 1.5, but I can’t get a dr to work with me on being “optimal.” I am going to do my own labs soon with Ulta. Wondering if I should go back to Armour after reading this. Also have to find a new dr to help me, as around here they only want to go by TSH. Ridculous! What should I be looking for, as I am not quite in the “thyroid removed” category as I still have a small part, and am not in the intact thyroid category either. Does that make a difference? Should I still be looking for high T3’s and mid range T4’s? Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Fran R
I couldn’t get natural thyroid anymore (just not available anymore at any local pharmacies!) even though it was a prescription! So I ordered the Thyroid-S. I’ve been taking it for about 2 months now and I just feel so much better! More energy to do things.. to WANT to do things! So far I’m impressed even though there are fillers. It appears to be working much better than the natural thyroid I was on before and of course, much much better than the synthroid which appeared to do nothing.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, Thyroid-S is still a very viable NDT.:) Just too bad about all the fillers.
LaVeta
Where can thyroid-s be purchased?
Alison
I’ve been taking Thyroid-S for two months now and feeling better than I have in a long time! It has a lot of fillers, but it seems to be working good for me.
John
Thank you for this, I do not feel so alone now. I’ve been on various NDT for a few years now, currently on 90 mg of NP Thyroid. And I have been draggin’ my wagon man. Most days, I need to take a hard nap (1 hr or more) I just crash. I never feel good anymore. I really hate the idea of going back to the synthetics, when I was first put on them, it was horrible. But it might be time to reconsider.
Janie Bowthorpe
Doing both T4 and T3, and getting optimal, has resulted in patients saying they feel pretty darn good. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Michele Minaker
Janie – you are so brave!! I give you credit for ALL that you have done, and what we will do now moving forward. I read these stories and add my own – my thyroid took a hardcore dive after a bike accident and I was out of sorts (you can’t think when you’re in that state!) THANK GOD I found STTM and help … couldn’t get off the ground with NP, my endo CUT my dose too!! Shocking … but I found my way out using thai doses. However, the shortage there is 99% .,… there are hardly any bottles available!! I think it’s time to pool our resources, we need a STTM organic Pork farm coupled with a nearby pharmaceutical processor who can make OUR OWN STTM MEDS! Am I dreaming? 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
I wish, I wish.
Karen H
It looks like RLC has been releasing more strengths of WP and Naturethroid. Is it possible that they are finally getting their act together? Is anyone on this forum doing well on either of them? It would be great to have a rough idea of how many total users of Naturethroid there are and how many people are doing well on it. I suspect our forum is relatively small with respect to the total number of people out there with thyroid problems. It would be helpful to be able to apply some sort of statistical analysis to how many people are doing well (optimally) on any given NDT product so we’d have a better idea of the numbers. Otherwise, we are just dismissed by mainstream medicine as “not grounded in research.”
I have been on all the NDT’s over the last 35 years and am once again back where I started with Armour. My labs stayed optimal with NP, but I didn’t feel great on it and also didn’t like the fact that Acella wouldn’t disclose where in Europe they were getting their raw materials. I am doing fine on the Armour, but not as well as on the original Armour before the changes.
Janie Bowthorpe
So far, no one has gotten optimal. And those who say they are doing well don’t have labs to prove it. So they eventually crash. We’re seeing more people admit they finally crashed even after saying they were doing well.
Debbie Shavitz
Since I am going to the doctor I’m sure she will write a prescription for any brand I ask for and I am due for a refill. So I had wanted to know which one was the best shot for a good NDT? Is Thyro gold regulated better than all the rest at this point to make a good alternative?
Also, do you have any insights to why I would get rapid heart beats at times? Do you think it has something to do with the poor quality of NP Thyroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
Right now, it’s proven by patients that armour is the only one left that can get most people optimal. Thyroid-S can, too. Some compounded NDT can, too, in the US. Others have had problems.
Australian NDT which is compounded also still seems fine.
Jenn B
I am pregnant and my thyroid care switched to my OB office as a result. They have zero clue and at every appointment they tell me they want me on synthroid. My labs have been good on NP for years at 60mg 2x/day for 5 days then 1x/day for 2 days. At 8 weeks pregnant my TSH was at 3.74 and Free T4 at .67 so they raised me to 60 mg 2x/day every day. I told them I know my body, that won’t be enough to drop it. Just redid my labs and Low and behold, at 14 weeks my TSH was 4.94 and Free T4 at .67. I ask for Free and Reverse T3 and they act like I’m a madman. I’m at my wit’s end, I know they’ll mismanage me again and continue not listening, but this is the best birthing center within a reasonable driving distance from my home. I know they’ll be calling me tomorrow to tell me my labs are off again but have no clue how to handle them anymore since they don’t listen and only believe in synthroid. I’m so concerned this is affecting my baby’s brain development.
Janie Bowthorpe
That sounds horrible that it’s the best birthing center, yet it sounds like they will keep you sick with hypo.
Lori
I am on Armour again after trying Nature and NP. Armour is not the same Armour of years ago. I want to switch to something else but all the NDT’S are not good anymore. I wish these NDT companies would get their act together.
Janie Bowthorpe
No, it’s definitely not the quality NDT it used to be. 🙁 BUT lots of people are doing ok on it, and especially if they get their frees optimal. You can also take a little less than optimal and add in T3 with the goal to get the free T3 optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Debbie Shavitz
I had been on Nature Throid for years and doing fine. Then I started feeling sleepy late afternoons, so I figured I should try something different. My doctor also freaked about my low TSH, so she wanted me to go down from 120 mg to 90mg, then tried 60mg. It was obvious that my afternoon fatigue started earlier and I was getting racing heartbeat at times. So I went back to 90. Over the last summer or so I switched to NP Thyroid to see if that would be better. My most recent batch, I am extremely sleepy in the mid mornng/afternoon. And yesterday I got rapid heartbeat in the late afternoon/evening and just don’t feel right in the head. My most recent labs should low end of Free T3 and Free T4 (but that was on the 60mg). Also my cortisol levels are lower than optimal mid morning and afternoon. Where should I go from here?
Thanks for any insight you can give me. I’m seeing my doctor soon and she’s pretty open.
Debbie
Also, does any of those diet programs help to totally regulate your adrenals and thyroid so you can get off of the meds all together?
Janie Bowthorpe
A doctor who lowers due to the TSH is a clueless doctor, on top of the fact that we are dealing with changed NDT’s that don’t work well anymore!
Scroll down on this page for alternatives: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Victoria N.
My husband is 60 and has care through the VA. They only test TSH. His was higher than I’d like (but within their wide range). I used Ulta Labs to get his Free T3 and Free T4 tested. They were in range. Maybe not optimal, but not the bottom either, so no doctor is going to touch him while those numbers are where they are. I now think something else is going on with him and not thyroid related.
I take NP Thyroid (150mg) and levothyroxine (100mcg). The Vitamin C supplementation is working too well and my Free T4 is now the tip top of the range, so I think I’ll cut my levo in half, then retest and see if that comes down at all. The doc won’t raise my NP Thyroid dose so I’m forced to take it with Vitamin C to increase the absorption. It does work! At least my doc is okay with me taking NDT and not freaked out by my non-existant TSH.
Janie Bowthorpe
They need to be optimal, Victoria, otherwise he’s not meeting the needs of his body over days, weeks or months. And thus, it will backfire.
CC
Hi Janie,
Thank you for everything you do! I was on NP Thyroid for most of 2019 until I noticed a rancid smell and started getting itchy and anxious. My numbers were deemed “good” by my doctor (TSH = .165, T4 = 1.02, T3 = 2.8, Reverse T3 = 14.4). Though my numbers were OK, I got fed up by the effects and I switched to a compounded synthetic version of T3/T4 made by my local compounding pharmacy in North Carolina. They had never compounded my dose before, which gave me a little pause. My TSH shot up to 60.87 in January. I’m now on a higher dose of compounded synthetic T3 (20mcg) and T4 (175 mcg) from the same compounding pharmacy. I got my blood drawn Friday and my TSH = 5.99, Free T4 = 1.14, Free T3 = 2.6 and still waiting on the Reverse T3 results. It’s been 5 weeks on this dose. While on both the NP and the synthetic compounded thyroid, I experienced huge hair loss and volume, severe constipation, weight gain, fatigue, brain fog/short-term memory loss. I’m celiac, so that also affects what thyroid hormone I take. Can you offer me any suggestions? Right now I feel like Goldilocks with all the thyroid hormones. Nothing seems to be just right. In the past 17 years, I have tried Tirosint, Synthroid, Levoxyl, Armour, Cytomel, generics. I’m not sure if I should look at better compounding pharmacies out of state for synthetic drugs or try to hunt down the only remaining good porcine powder providers. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Sincerely, CC
Ellen
Hi Janie,
I’m on 180mg (3 grains) of Armour which I take every morning. Lab results show mid range t3 (3.4) and mid range t4 (1.1). To get to optimal i would need to raise my t3? How much should I ask for my dr to start with? She is very freaked out by my non-existent TSH (below .01) so I am hoping to explain…but maybe if i get my t3 up, it will help. Thank you for all this excellent info!
Janie Bowthorpe
Ellen, you probably need to be splitting your dose, not taking it all at once. For example, 2 grains first thing, then one grain by early afternoon. Then redo labs. If still not optimal, we raise until we are optimal.
Ellen
Thank you! I will start that asap and redo labs after a few weeks. I so appreciate this website and all of your info. It has been tremendously helpful to me for many years!!
DebbieC
I’m a senior citizen and disgusted that Medicare will not allow payments for “any” of the NDTs (regardless of their current efficacy or not), so my Medicare Part D is useless. My last prescription was for NP Thyroid and I was able to use GoodRX to cover some of the cost. But I decided to try Thyroid-S where I can get it at a much more reasonable price now that Medicare is screwing me on the payment.
Ann
Hi Janie,
Is 14 hours after taking my last dose of medication long enough time before testing my T3 and T4? Thank you! You and this website have been so very helpful.
Janie Bowthorpe
It may be. It’s just about taking your meds as usual one day (except not in the evening), and doing labs first thing the next morning. 🙂
Peggy Brennan
I’m 73 and have taken all the ndt only to have them all go south after changing whatever they change. Last one was NP Thyroid which was never the best for me but last fall was a nightmare with it. Didn’t realize it was the NP until this January. Switched to .50 of levothyroxine last week. I felt better almost immediately. Yesterday and today had allergic reaction, throat felt funny and today a big hive. There goes this one as well. Have to be without it for 5 days. Any advice on another synthetic that may work? I did feel great except for the allergic reaction. After NP and all the changes to the others, I do not want ndt anymore. I don’t know if I am allergic to levothyroxine, would I be allergic to another synthetic? We all hate this mess
Janie Bowthorpe
Peggy, it is honestly never, ever a good switch to move to nothing but T4. Years and years of experiences prove that. We aren’t meant to live for conversion of T4 to T3 alone. There are too many obstacles in life which can prevent that conversion. A healthy thyroid also gives us some direct T3. So try BOTH T4 and T3, and work to get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Instead of levo, try Tirosint. For T3, there is Cytomel.
Hadassah
Hi Janie ,
It’s very tragic what has happened to our NDT . I am a TT patient and I always say my thyroids now come from the bottle. I was wondering that Cytomel has corn starch as one of the fillers and I’m allergic to it . On your sight you mention T3 from Mayne . Is that one good too?
Janie Bowthorpe
We have noticed a lot of people doing lousy on the Mayne version of T3, even if others say they are doing ok. I personally avoid the Mayne brand, just in case, with the volume of people who haven’t done well on it.
Judy
Hi Janie
If you don’t mind. May I ask which T 3 are you currently taking? If any
I’m thinking of going that route But I don’t want to get cytomel. Brand. I’d rather try a generic brand. Which would be the best in your opinion
Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Sigma Pharm. And you have to make SURE the pharmacist gives that. They often sneakily give you another brand which is probably cheaper for them wholesale.
Sarah
I just found your website after feeling so sick and tired of being sick and tired. I’ve had hypothyroidism for 12 years. Started on Synthroid, then when they tried the generic, found that didn’t work, then finally asked my doctor about natural thyroid last year after reading about it online. I was on
Synthroid 0.137mg and she put me on Nature-Throid which made me feel better so after labwork came back she wanted to increase the dosage. We tried 3/4 GR (48.75MG) 2 & 1/2 tablets every day and then I felt manic on it so I went down to 2 pills a day. I went to get my refills and the manufacturer was out after the dr prescribed Nature-Throid 113.75 MG tablet, so they put me on Nature-Throid 0.5gr (32.5mg) two pills a day and Nature-Throid 3/4gr (48.75mg) one pill a day. I feel worse so I am getting blood drawn again in a few days with a follow up next week. My Free T4 was 1.1 in August 2018 and most recently in October was 0.7 L. My Free T3 was 2.7 August 2018 and in October 2019 was 3.7. My TSH was 7.18 August 2018 and October 2019 was 0.18. I have read and reread so much and still do not know what to ask my doctor at my next appt. Now I just read NatureThroid doesn’t work for lots of people so what should I do or ask my dr at the next appt? Thank you in advance. I know this was probably TMI, I just don’t know what to do anymore.
Janie Bowthorpe
The only NDT that seems to be working for people is Armour. You could move to that. But we all have to accept that maybe, maybe, it could change someday, too…or it may not. If that bothers you, then synthetic T4 with synthetic T3. No matter which you choose, it’s important to get those frees optimal–the latter is key. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Lina
I looked around and it seems that they didn’t change their formulations (ingredient and proportions of ingredients), but they all changed their source of API (the active ingredient, in this case porcine thyroid). So they’re not lying when they say they didn’t change their formulations… But they changed the source of the main ingredient.
NP changed from US-grown and made API to European. They say it is guaranteed that none of the API comes from China.
But my thought is, that something is going wrong in the chain from slaughter to dessication. Maybe it’s being dried in too hot temperatures, destroying the hormones? Maybe it’s not being ground in the same ways (hence the specks). Etc etc.
And here in EU, use of NDT is heavily discouraged. It doesn’t seem like the best place to source the API.
We’re just gonna have to raise our own pigs…
Janie Bowthorpe
Excellent info, Lina.
The suspicious problem is a change in some fillers or change of source of fillers. But the source of porcine powder seems clearly messed up when problems have been happening with other brands.
Emily Smith
I realize that this question probably can’t be answered, but, why do you think Armour is working now for some people after its big loss of effectiveness several years ago? Could the pharmaceutical company have adjusted the formula after receiving so many bad reviews by their patients?
Janie Bowthorpe
After 2015, they did seem to make their the hard coating on the tablets less hard. The changes to the tablet had created a loud complaint. Armour is still not the wonderful Armour it used to be. But at least it’s somewhat still working…
Emily Jane Smith
Thank you, Janie.
Janie Bowthorpe
You’re welcome. 🙂
Danielle Lehon
Michaeline, thank you for the information about your compounding pharmacy. I am taking ERFA from Canada but at 4 grains still have all my symptoms and labs are high. My doctor sent a prescription to Care First today for 2.5 grains and he will increase as needed. Again, thank you. Fingers crossed!!
Dana
What is very concerning is that the Thyroid S, from Thailand, contains aluminum! It’s in the dyes. I know we get aluminum from many sources, but this aluminum would be directed towards the thyroid. Aluminum is not good for the thyroid.
Amy
It’s probably a minute/insignificant amount of aluminum, no? Maybe Janie or someone else who knows can chime in. Hoping it’s safe to ingest, as I’m about to receive mine this week..
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, it’s minute. Just make sure you don’t have a methylation problem like MTHFR or other reasons.
jessica
Could you say more about the MTHFR and why that matters please?
Janie Bowthorpe
Start here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/mthfr
blan
oila janie je me permet de vous écrire je suit français et jai prix depuis prés de 7ans de la thyroïde S de Thaïlande et depuis quelque moi j’ai vue revenir des symptôme de hyperthyroïdie et de hypothyroïdie ainsi que de grosse insomnie avec un problème de surrénale qui travaille toute la journée avec le corp brulant et qui se calme le soir mais qui me réveille la nuit ou je d’or QUE deux heure je voulait vous signaler un retour ver hypothyroïdie et une modification du certaine de la formule du fabricant du médicament de la thyroide s merci de me répondre il ni a pas de forum en France et voudrait savoir comment communique avec des gent qui prenne se médicament pour voir si il on signaler JE c est pa comment vous le dire mais il on changer eu aussi comme les autre marque le gou et plus fort sa doit venir dune mauvaise qualiter de poudre de thyroïde moi je net plus de thyroïde et je suit très sensible a sa cela a commencer sur des lot qui expire en 2021 ET EN 2022 JUSQUAT PRESSANT IL ni avait pas de problème l’an dernier je vous lavait signalait quart javais essailler cest nouveaux lot et comme il me rester des ancien lot je lai et repris plus insomnie plus de depretion plus axieter quatre foi de vtt par semaine tout aller bien a quel médicament maintenant se fier jai tout perdu a causse de tout cest laboratoire qui change et nous tu petit a petit ver ou me retourner maintenant pour retrouver un bon médicament je vous remerci je vous demande de voir sur dautre forum quar vous dite que la thyroid s de Thaïlande et encorre au top vous vous tromper merci de me répondre je vais vous faire parvenir les numero de lot
Janie Bowthorpe
Salut. Désolé que cela vous arrive. Ce n’est peut-être pas parce que Thyroid-S est maintenant de moins bonne qualité. Vous vous êtes peut-être sous-dosé pendant tout ce temps, donc les glandes surrénales sont stressées en essayant de continuer. Beaucoup de gens font cette erreur – s’arrêter à un niveau de NDT comme Thyroid-S ou même T4 / T3 parce qu’ils “se sentent bien”, mais leurs T4 et T3 gratuits ne sont pas optimaux. Il est très important d’obtenir ces valeurs optimales dans les plages pour arrêter cela. Optimal place le T4 gratuit autour des médiums, mais plus important encore, place le T3 gratuit en haut de la gamme.
Soit dit en passant, ce groupe européen a un modérateur qui parle français. Elle vit ici. https://groups.io/g/NTHEurope/topics
Zina Alien
Hello!
May I, please, ask you about some product? What do you think about it?
The product I am interested in is this one:
https://www.vitacost.com/natural-sources-raw-thyroid-90-capsules
Do you think it can cause problems not related to inaccurate dosage?
I would be very thankful for your help.
Best regards,
Zina
Janie Bowthorpe
Understand that as you raise a product like this to find your optimal amount, you would be raising the other ingredients: Adrenal Tissue, Pituitary Tissue, Thymus Tissue, Spleen Tissue, Malto-dextrin (corn-derivative, American Ginseng) May not be a good idea…..
Jim Ogilvy
I tried Raw Thyroid from Vitacost last October after reading an article about it. After a week on it, I ordered another two bottles, just because that’s when my S.S. check came in. I went downhill and kept adding more capsules each day and still went downhill more. After 3 weeks of that, I went back to taking Thyrovanz which I highly recommend. My 2nd order had come in and I wrote to Vitacost for a refund and offered to return the 2 bottles I had just received un-opened. They credited me back for it and didn’t want the 2 bottles returned. They are still in the freezer. I do not recommend Raw Thyroid. Please be careful.
Nicole
My labs are so-so, definitely not optimal on NP and I finally got the cat pee tasting pills from my latest refill which make me want to gag. My main symptoms are serious brain fog and plantar fasciitis since August, and probably other things I’m not even aware of that are related. I’m fed up and tomorrow I will start a compounded NDT. I asked a lot of questions and probably annoyed the pharmacy way too much, but the info I received was that they still have 2018 PCCA porcine API and they used microcrystalline cellulose as my filler since I requested immediate release. I asked for acidophilus or brown rice instead but they didn’t have it in stock and I’m not willing to wait another day to start. The 30 day scrip cost me $55 versus the $10 I usually pay. I would save a little more if I got a 90 day supply. Wish me luck. I’m nervous to try this and so tired of feeling like crap 🙁
Janie Bowthorpe
Microcrystalline cellulose will bind some of the thyroid hormones, and is used to slow release it, too which doesn’t work well for many. But you could definitely try….
Peggy
Having T3 and T4 compounding and they are using Hypromellose, short for hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) which functions as a controlled release agent to delay the release of a medicinal compound into the digestive tract. This is was not ‘optional’ but the additional filler is somewhat optional and I am getting ginger.
James Mitchell
Nicole-
Can you tell me who your compounding pharmacy is? I’m paying $210 for a one month supply of NDT at my compounding pharmacy!
TIA,
James
Yesi
I can share mine. I have mine mailed to me from skips pharmacy in Florida. I have combo t3/t4 equivalent to old Naturethroid 146.25 (when it was good) I pay about under $ 80 + 8$ shipping for a 3 month supply! Love them and way cheaper than other regular pharmacy brands. Got tired of all the NDT companies changing thier formulas and then I tank, and they lie.
Gladioli
After reading through many of the comments here it is hard to know what to do with regard to starting thyroid treatment. Sounds like ALL NDTs have problems. If a product is different every time you get your script filled how is one supposed to ever stabilize on a dose? Would I be better off starting out with Thyro-Gold or Thyrovanz instead of trying to convince my doc into giving me Armour (because that is likely the only thing he will prescribe other than a T4 only)? I was hoping I had finally found a way to be functional again but I am so confused about what to do, I have not done a thing to move forward with treatment.
Janie Bowthorpe
If you want stability, consider T4 with T3. And find your optimal dose: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Gail
What combination of standardized t4 and t3 tablets/capsules is the equivalent of 1 grain of NDT?
Janie Bowthorpe
One grain of NDT is equal to 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3.
Wanda
Hi. I picked up my Armour Thyroid from local pharmacy a few days ago. When I go to split the pill, it crumbles. I said, oh no they have given me NP Thyroid again by mistake. So I look at the pill and it has the same A stamp on it for Armour. Had one last Armour pill and compared them. The RX and stamp seems authentic. But, it is clearly not the same formula. The pills can hardly be split without crumbling. Anyone else notice a change in Armour Thyroid?
Peggy
Wanda,
I picked up Armour this week and it is crumbly. I don’t have anything to compare with, though, as it is the first Armour I have purchased in years — been taking WP or NatureThroid. I think this Armour tastes nasty. WP and NatureThroid do not taste the same to me, either. (I remember how I used to look forward to chewing my pill and finding that little nugget of “porcine thyroid.” Those days are long gone.)
Rachel Hamlin
Update: Acella’s adverse effects reporting division called me and so I gave them a thorough and detailed accounting of how it differed and how it made me sick. Is there a chance that this means they’ll take it seriously? Still haven’t received any bottle to send it back though. Maybe they are just going through the motions to satisfy FDA reporting…..I just want old NP back…..
I think I’ll try WP ……
Janie Bowthorpe
Lots a patients will tell you that they are not seeing anything taken seriously.
Christa
So….I have read through the thread and in response to my question and a few others is the reason we are unable to get Thiroyd, Thyroid-S etc from Thailand. So my qustion is, does anyone know just how long they will last on the shelf in the dark? When I started this crazy ride with my husband, we could not find a dr. to prescribe NDT so I bought a large bottle of Thiroyd, We then found a dr. to prescribe NDT and switched. I have at least 800 pills. Manufacture date was 2015 🙁 are they garbage?????? Argh. Any thoughts would be appreciated, because if I thought for a minute they could still be good I would switch him back.
Janie Bowthorpe
Supposedly, years.
Christa
Thanks Janie! Hoping 5 years from manufacture is not too long 🙂 I will try and then do his bloodwork 🙂
Lori
I like to store my NDT in the refrigerator, my experience has been that it does last for years, worst case scenario it will become weaker and the dose has to be increased. You are lucky to have Greater Pharma, I have found Thyroid S to be weaker, more difficult to make work and it’s now triple price but it’s all that’s left.
Nicky
Does anyone have a good dr that understands how all of this works in Cleveland area? I moved here recently and have been told that some of my symptoms are due to taking armour ( I can’t sleep at night, and get irritable, too many swings in feelings) and have been switched to levothyroxine and a lower amount of armour. It’s been 20 years since RAI and I need an endo that is good at this. I originally had a “top doc” I found at UBC in Vancouver but am now living here in the US and having to start over, and also trying to find one that takes my insurance. This is just a nightmare. ( I was taking cytomel and armour for a while and I felt good but also a bit too hyper. This is so difficult to figure out. ) I also cannot find the “top doc” page where I found my endo in Vancouver. Any help is appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
Total BS from doctors who can’t stand the fact that a medication called Armour works better than their beloved T4-only. And to add t4 what is already 80% T4 is mostly silly and all a person has to do is raise the armour.
But in your case, it’s what the armour is revealing that is important. We have learned that it can be two issues: one, that you kept yourself on a lower dose too long. That backfires on us. Or two, Armour is revealing that you now have a cortisol problem (and being are mostly T4 is going to exacerbate that problem).
First do Discovery step one on this page to see if you have an adrenal problem that needs a saliva test and to treat: : https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And when the day comes that a potential adrenal problem is properly treated, learn what optimal is: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Nicky
Thanks for this info. I have been on a low dose for a long time that is true. I had to argue with the dr to keep taking some of the armour. I have not had any money at all to take expensive tests, and have only bought my own free t4, free t3 and tsh from labcorp for myself. We lost health insurance after a car accident and lost a job because of the car accident. So, self treating for 3 years. Now on insurance and hoping to find a dr that will follow your thinking!
Lexy Johnson
Hi. Dr Silverblatt in mentor is excellent and very open to ndt. Due to the disaster above he’s working with me on options for something other than ndt but I do recommend him highly.
Sue
Thank you for posting this info. I’ve recently crashed from my latest Rx of Nature-Throid. After about a week, I had dizziness. I checked my blood pressure and it was up substantially but my heart rate was low. Hair was starting to fall out again. Weight was going up. Of course, every time this happens it takes a couple of days to process and research because my brain stops working. Fortunately, I had some of an Erfa Rx leftover that I’m able to take until I can get another prescription.
Thank you for all you do to help us. I’ve grown weary of pleading with manufacturers to provide safe medicines.
Gail
This past Saturday my BP went up to 219/102 at highest reading and was fluctuating between that and 170/79. I was still on Naturethroid (with some added T3) but had my new prescription for Armour in hand. After starting the Armour, stopping T3, and cutting my ndt dose almost in half AND taking supplements to support my adrenals, my BP has come down, thankfully, though not quite back to normal yet. The Naturethroid was a 90 day prescription dated 11/8/19 with a 1 year expiration date. It has the speckles but I didn’t notice any change in smell. That could be because I always refrigerate it. The only warning was that my dose had come down with the previous 2 refills based on labs, and some dizzy spells, but I didn’t make a connection. I had a BP reading the Wednesday before that was perfectly normal.
After getting stable on Armour I’m going to try bioidentical/sythetic T4/T3 to see how it works because, as Janie says, who knows when Armour (or even compounded ndt) will go south. I dealt with the shortages of WP and compounded ndt but never imagined something like this could happen. Luckily I found out what’s going on through this page in time to get something else prescribed and shipped to me (in the nick of time!).
Janie, in getting optimal by adding T3 to NDT do you still need to multi-dose? I was taking the extra 15 mcg T3 all at once.
Janie Bowthorpe
If you are asking if you need to multi-dose 15mcg T3, not sure you do since 15 mcg is quite low. Perhaps you can play it by ear…
Ruth
I got a mail order batch that I had to check markings on because I could immediately tell smelled different. Ever since I have felt terrible and now I am having palpitations they almost landed me in the ER AND put me on afib according to my Apple Watch I have appt with the cardiologist. Unbelievable.
Janie Bowthorpe
So sorry you’ve had to go through that. It’s terrible what has happened. Which brand?
Ruth
Acella – I am so angry right now. I have no idea what to do – go to synthetics? I don’t convert well so add the t3 synthetic? Terrified over the porcine now. You should see the readings from the Apple Watch. All symptoms started when I noticed the new smell. I am not crazy.
Janie Bowthorpe
No, you are not crazy. It’s been happening to many patients with the smelly ones. It’s fine to go with T4 and T3 as long as you work to get optimal. Many are liking both for their treatment. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Julie
Ok, so confused. I was doing gr8 on naturethroid but had to switch when I couldnt get it. Went on np. Ok at first, actually seemed to have less itching issues. But did notice a distinct change in pills taste and smell during summer of 2019. So now, I cant say I have noticed any obvious effects from the different np tablets, but I dont feel great either and my levels are not optimal as they were on naturethroid back b4 its backlog. Main question…u mentioned synthetic t3 and t4 as an option. Is that different than the synthroid/levothyoxine I have heard is so bad? I am confused as to what to ask my doctor for. What do u suggest as the first nwxt step?
Yesi
Yes, same here stated off with Naturethroid, then Np thyroid, then switched to armour with cytomel. Finally went to synthetic T3/T4 from a compounding pharmacy, skips pharmacy in Florida. Been ot it since sep. of last year and saw an immediate difference and still feel great! Much cheaper than buying armour and adding cytomel. And since its compounded especially for me, it’s the exact t3/t4 my body needs. Never going back to those other brands
Ruth
By the way the palpitations started pretty much immediately – recently they got so bad they were registering afib on the watch and my general practitioner was concerned and sent me straight to the cardiologist if the same type of episode repeats he advised me to go straight to ER. Funny enough since backing off the thyroid meds I have had a reduction of symptoms. Won’t touch Acella again. Now to decide if to chance armour (I had done great on it before) or if I will go to synthetics with t3 but I had terrible anxiety on syntheroid alone – since I don’t convert
Sandie
Hi Ruth. I had the same problem with NP causing tachycardia and it then registered as a fib on the Apple Watch. I just stopped the NP and all issues with heart rhythm stopped…..ironically a itchy rash on the back of my head disappeared after stopping NP. I’m in my 3rd week on Armour and doing just fine with no rhythm issues.
Michaeline
Hi everyone…I haven’t been on the website lately, but so many people asked about the compounding dessicated thyroid meds I’m on.
I don’t get notifications… I wasn’t trying to ignore anyone by not commenting!
Still amazing…I just received a 3 month supply. Hope it’s still great!
https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy/
Danielle Lehon
Michaeline, did you stay on the same dosage your were on with NP? Thank you for the name of the pharmacy. Danielle
Michaeline
Amy, I used the acidophilus as a filler.
Michaeline
Danielle,
I was on 4.5-5 grains of NP thyroid…but my labs were really high…free T3 always way over the range, so I lowered to 4 grains on the compounded thyroid from cps.
I feel great, but I just hope they haven’t changed suppliers. We shall see…I just started my new batch yesterday.
Gina
Hi, Michaeline I’m just curious to know, you have already done your labs at this point? Have you ever tried t3 + t4 before? Is it your energy fine too right now?, If you’ve been taking it for a while now I’d like to know more about your experience with it, if you’ve ever had headaches or other symptoms before while using NP and if you’ve now completely solved them all, sometimes certain informations are more important than a simple :”i feel great ” when you decide to share your thoughts with others because it helps them understand more …., thanks, Gina.
Janie Bowthorpe
That’s a great way to say it about “I feel great”. The problem is that even on the still working NDT’s like Armour and some compounds, you will feel great before labs are optimal, and it will backfire sooner or latter from not taking enough for you daily, weekly, months needs. It’s being optimal that prevents the backfire. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Amy Lynn
Thank you for coming back & responding, appreciate it. Which filler are you using from cfs, the acidophilus or cellulose? Thanks!
Danielle Lehon
Thank you for all the valuable information on this site. I have battled Hypo for 30 yrs. Synthetics were awful, tried Armour in 2006 it was starting work then went south Sept. 2007, tried NP , Hotze compounded and finally Erfa. On Erfa for about 4 years but still have symptoms,,,a lot of symptoms. 1 1/2 yrs ago diagnosed Hashimoto’s so I eliminated gluten. That helped about 30%. While on 2 grains Erfa 10 mcg Cytomel were added but I started gaining weight and symptoms persisted. At 3 grains of Erfa
My labs from Quest:
FT3 4.6 (2.3-4.2). High
RT3 38 (8 – 25). High
FT4 1.6 (0.9-1.7) High normal
TSH .10 (.35 – 4.0)
To me seems RT3 is the problem. Possibly a conversion issue? Could that cause extreme fatigue, insomnia, low energy, hair falling out, always irritated!!?? What
Can I do to lower RT3? Doctor has no idea. I talked him into raising me to 4.00 grains but still have same symptoms. Haven’t had labs yet for 4 grains. Any ideas? Thank you, Danielle
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Danielle. Here’s what we’ve learned about labs like yours: 1) The frees are not meant to be that high. Read where optimal is: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal i.e. it’s not a conversion issue. It’s too much thyroid meds. 2) The RT3 is meant to be in the 3 bottom numbers of the range. Part of why your RT3 is too high is the body will clear out excess T4 by converting it to RT3. 1.6 is excess T4.
Danielle Lehon
Janie, thank you. If my Free’s are too high and at a lower dose my symptoms are severe ERFA must not be the correct med. for me.
So frustrating! Thank you so much for your information. Danielle
Gail
I just spoke with a pharmacist at the compounding pharmacy where I used to get my compounded NDT. They lost their supply of Thyroid USP a couple years ago and still don’t have compounded NDT available because they can’t find a decent supply. I asked her what’s going on and she said she’s not sure why the supply dried up but she did say the one supply they found they won’t use because it has a lot of lactose filler in it and they don’t consider that acceptable since a lot of people can’t tolerate lactose.
Peggy
Janie, I just want to say “Thanks.”
Artie Turner
I knew this would eventually happen: Jane admits that”..all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have gone south/changed from what they used to be.” I first suspected this years ago when the rumors of Armour’s reformulation began. When I could no longer get Armour at any local pharmacies, I started on NP thyroid at the SAME dosage I had been taking of Armour and went through the roof with the jitters. Janie’s comment at the time was that it wasn’t the fault of the new NDT, I simply wasn’t optimal. I found that answer insulting. Of course it’s always great to be “optimal” but there are simply too many moving targets to hit to get uniformly and consistently “optimal” when you have no idea what’s in the NDT you’re taking. I shudder to think what’s causing the physical symptoms that NP users are complaining of. But at least it’s now out there in. the open: NDT is a crap shoot, where you’re never sure what you’re getting from any given batch by any pharmaceutical company. It’s good to know that anyone who comes to this site for thyroid information can at least get the story about combining Synthroid and Cytomel. Given the climate of deregulation that’s gripping the US and the e-coli horrors of the meat processing industry, it’s hard to understand why anyone would want to ingest these bovine organs.
I’m going back to Synthroid plus cytomel. If you can get “optimal” on the toxic merry go round of NDT, you can get optimal on synthetics with a lot less grief.
Janie Bowthorpe
Artie, you took it wrong. Many people, when NP used to work, simply weren’t getting optimal. When they did get optimal, the problems went away. That’s also true if they got their cortisol optimal. But today, Artie, it’s now true that NDT is a crap shoot because it just seems off and has been causing all sorts of problems with people. And double yes about taking T4 and T3 and getting optimal. It just may be the way to go, because who knows when Armour “might” go south too.
Rachel Hamlin
But not everyone can metabolize synthetic hormones. I couldn’t metabolize them, not for thyroid, not for birth control, not for several other issues.
DEBBIE HUDSON
My doctor that has now retired put me on a slow release T3 only. I use the RC Compounding Pharmacy
Janie Bowthorpe
Just be aware that slow release is very imperfect and may cause you to run out at certain times when you don’t want to.
Gail
I was doing well on Naturthroid but my labs started to go wonky in August of last year, with a return of some hypo symptoms and an elevated heart rate. I was also getting these short intense dizzy spells – almost like a mini-black out. My Dr started lowering my dose because of my elevated heart rate before I found this blog post. I’m going to try switching to Armour based on the information here and if that doesn’t work will try a t3/t4 combo. I hope one of those works. I also recently was diagnosed with swelling around my optic nerve that has caused impaired vision. I’m not sure if it’s related. Has anyone else experienced this?
Janie Bowthorpe
Some patients are doing great on Armour. A few aren’t. It’s odd. But you can do great on T4 and T3 if you get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Gail
Is there a difference between compounded synthetic T4/T3 and bioidentical compounded thyroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
Believe it or not, the word bioidentical is actually referring to synthetics. But you have to ask the pharmacy what they mean by that (if that’s where you saw it used),just in case they’re using it wrongly and are referring to desiccated thyroid.
Laurel
Can someone send me a link to where I can buy the NDT from Thailand? I’ve looked on a few sites and they say they are sold out. Which one do you find most effective?
Pascale
Due to the shortage of pigs resulted from the African Swine Fever epidemic, production of Thiroyd S and T.R. have been discontinued until further notice.
this is the answer i got from my supplier in thailand and they don’t know when the production will start again so for the moment nowhere available
judy
Laurel…the Thailand suppliers are out of their supplies. There is only one Thailand thyroid product that will continued to be manufactured and that is Thyroid S. They will not be back into production until early spring. Hopefully the formula will be the same…even though they use a number of fillers. Thyroid S seems to have worked for so many. The price will basically double.
Lori
You can Google it, the only one available now is Thyroid S in 500 tablet bottles. It can be chewed, rubbed on the side of cheeks and some of that done sublingual.
Tom
Can someone please recommend where to order Thyroid-S from? ERFA is no longer cutting it. Email is discounttommy@hotmail.com
Tamara Shurling
My TSH is at 8.4 right now, as I have had thyroid cancer it is supposed to be suppressed, I have been on Armour for years now and this last year has been hell, I don’t want to go to generic levothyroxine but I don’t see that I have a choice in the matter.
Janie Bowthorpe
You aren’t optimal. Study this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Christa
Hello, could someone let me know (via email I guess?) where they are ordering either Thiroyd, Thyroid-S or T.Man? Everything I can find online is “Out of Stock” – Thank you!!!
Judy
Thiroyd and TR Man have been discontinued. The company producing Thyroid S is suppose to be starting production again soon.
Michelle Sarchiapone
Can someone please recommend where to order Thyroid-S from? And the dosage? I am on WP now 2 1/2 65 mgs tablets a day. Also any reliable compounding pharmacies using porcine that IS working for people?
Janie Bowthorpe
Someone will need to email you directly that info.
James Mitchell
I was doing pretty well on NP Thyroid for years and then it stopped working for me this year. I’d say I started having issues one prescription before it started smelling and tasting like cat pee. Around August 2019 (approximately.) I decided to try the compounding pharmacy route, and had a long talk with someone there. Take it for what it’s worth, but he said there is only only one legitimate porcine source left in the US. This person/company bought up and owns it all, and is charging whatever they want for the “good stuff”. Supposedly this source is located in Dallas. Again, heresay at this point, but could certainly be the case.
I’m on week five of the compounded porcine, seem to be doing okay. May try synthetic T4/T3 in the future when I feel more stable.
Bertram Sussex
Hi: Can you tell me the compounding pharmacy in Dallas area you use?
James Mitchell
Sorry, I’m in Wisconsin and I don’t think they ship out-of-state (but you can ask.) It’s M D Custom RX in Brookfield, WI.
Kristen Brewer
So, I missed the memo on Nature-Throid going south…after fighting to get on it for the last 7 years. I’ve been doing a combo of Nature-Throid (1 1/2 grains, split dose) and Cytomel (10mcg 3 times/day). This past week was the first time my labs came back even close to good (My RT3 dropped to the bottom number, my FT3 is near the top of the range, but my FT4 is low). Still working on low iron, low D, and adrenals, but I feel human again. Am I feeling better because of so much T3? I don’t think my doc is going to go for another switch after begging to be on this for so long.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s the T3.
Yesi
After months of going down hill and countless doctor visits I have since moved on, found a great Nurse Practioner who was willing to prescribe compounded thyroid meds till I found my correct dose. My thyroid med is synthetic T3/T4. There is no reliable porcine powder anywhere, I’ve called many pharmacies across the country. I am very happy with the synthetic T3/T4, and my numbers are finally great. I will never be going back to desiccated thyroid med, its not worth my time or health dealing and waiting for these company manufacturers to get thier acts together. My meds cost about $76 for a 3 month supply, which is about $10 more than what I would have paid for an NP thyroid 3 month supply but way less if I had gone to Armour. I get my prescription filled at Skips Pharmacy in Floria, I live in Az and they mail it to me with no issues.
Donna
Yesi I am in Mesa, AZ. I am wanting to go this route as well. Can I ask you who your nurse practitioner is?
Yesi
She is out of Yuma, Az.
Tammy Slade Florez N.P
Office name:
Aura Grace
Roberta
I have been on wp it originally worked til they changed it in may I then Went to armour still felt bad then NP in August felt ok but slowly been getting worse however my labs r ok except my tsh went from. Point 9 in July to now 1.07 but my free t3 at top of range and t4 at bottom of range which is supposed to be right? Well I have gained tons of weight and the lethargy is awful I also take 5mcg t3 twice a day. I just got switched to levothyroxine 50 MCG and will never take it again all day had a racing heart and hot and cold and yawning all day til 3 am. What is helping? My Dr is suggesting armour it naturethroid he says the base thyroid may be lower now in the newly made meds which may be the issue.
Yesi
Since you are out of Mesa, I would call Porters Compounding (close to Mesa I belive) and ask them for names of Drs who prescribe compounded t3/t4 in your area. Obviously those Drs are open to prescribing for patients.
Di
Also Naturemedica in Tucson AZ.
Michaeline
Hi. I just started a desiccated compound thyroid medication and it’s amazing. Better then NP even when it was good. My labs are beyond optimal, more energy and have loss a few pounds. If anyone would like the name of compound pharmacy, please let me know. They use acidophilus as a filler. There is hope!!
Theresa
Hello Michaeline,
I would like to know the compounding pharmacy that uses 100% porcine powder. Please email the information to me at your earliest.
Thank you in advance. -Theresa
Michaeline
Hi everyone…I haven’t been on the website lately, but so many people asked about the compounding dessicated thyroid meds I’m on.
I don’t get notifications… I wasn’t trying to ignore anyone by not commenting!
Still amazing…I just received a 3 month supply. Hope it’s still great!
https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy/
niki
They are very expensive ! I wish I could afford it !
Theresa
Michaeline, please share where you found 100% porcine powder compounded with acidophilus as a filler. Thank you. -Theresa
Brenda
Hi can I get the name of compounding pharmacy with acidophilus when you have a chance ? Thanks so much !
gina
Michaeline, I would also like this info…
Lia
Hi Michaeline, please could you let me know as well? Thank you!
Lou Ann Myers
I too would love to know of this compounding pharmacy please.
peggy
I would like the name of the compounding pharmacy, also. Thank you.
Deborah Jean Hebblewhite
I would like the info about that compounding pharmacy as well. Thanks!
Leslie
Hi Michaeline – I would also like to know the name of the compounding pharmacy. I had thyroid cancer and no longer have thyroid glands. I’ve been miserable for years! Would love a change for the better.
Michaeline
https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy/
Yesi
Are you sure its dessicated thyroid?
Cathy
Hi. Please send me the name of the compounding pharmacy.. I would appreciate it. Thanks, Cathy
Amy Lynn
That’s awesome, but why not just post the name of the compounding pharmacy you’re using in your original comment instead of making a bunch people ask for it? Is it some big secret we don’t want everyone and their mothers finding out or what? Just wondering…
Mia
Haha @AmyLynn, I never understood that either, maybe the original poster just got busy. HAVE ANY OF THE OTHER 100 people asking received the info? Can you please post here, thanks!
How does compounding solve the issue? I think we should all be following all the drug swapping news!! This could explain a huge reason why we all still feel like complete sh*t!! (generics using fillers from China, other companies seem to be adhering to the “rules” of replacement drugs but they’re not advising of the effect on patients)
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/france-brings-back-phased-out-drug-after-patients-rebel-against-its-replacement
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/health/thyroid-medication-recall/index.html
Michaeline
https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy/
Brenda
Please send me the information on how to order this thyroid product
Angela Thomassen
I would like the compounding information too. Please pass out amount if they respond. Thanks so much
Sonya Geuke
Hi Michaeline, I would appreciate the name of the compounding pharmacy also please.
Karin Kaplan
Michaeline – could you just post the name and source here given all the interest? If for whatever reason you don’t want to, please email me your source. Thanks!
Kimberly Harper
Michaeline,
Could you please email me your source of pure porcine NDT? Sorry to ask but I’m really hypo struggling while trying to support my 90-year-old Mom.
Thank you,
Kim
Lori
I have been on NDT for over 40 years and I’d just like to say that I have been through many of these shortages or crisis, it’s never been a the end of NDT forever. It may take some time before the supply comes back and either a new NDT that is high quality and can be done sublingual will show up or they will fix one of the current brands. Unfortunately there is a swine fever that has caused a shortage of NDT.
https://thecompounder.com/2019/05/06/african-swine-fever-hogs-and-thyroid/
Rachel Hamlin
I’m on a call with Acella now on hold trying to talk to their NP specialist. THe first line rep says no change was made when I said that was false she said the only change was in supplier, that the porcine thyroid comes from europe now and she speculated it was how they were raised but claimed that no filler etc had changed. Again using the “cosmetic” change line which I told her was false. In any case when I started crying about how this was going to ruin not only my life but my young kids. SO I got through to DAvid as some have mentioned and he gave me a case number but says it should be fine this new supplier was thoroughly vetted and claims that they’ll send me a mailer to send some pills back.
In any case – if enough people call and go through starting a case file maybe they’ll start to take us seriously…….
Janie Bowthorpe
Let’s see, NP supposedly has a different supplier and no other change was made. Hmmm…we have NP that now smells like cat pee. We have NP that now tastes horrific. We have an NP that makes some people nauseated. We have an NP that causes some people to have burning down their throats or burning in their stomach. We have an NP that has made labs go south. We have an NP that seems to be causing the vast majority see a return of their hypothyroid symptoms….
Also note that many, many have sent their pills back. And all they’ve gotten is silence…..
Amy
I can now add that the bad smelling NP is the likely cause of me losing a significant amount of hair. Something I have been through before but my hair has been stable for a couple of years now. I keep records and my hair fall out timing is rather predictable and dramatic…an event and about 2.5 months later my hair falls out. I was losing 8x the normal rate. I actually measure it and know my baseline etc. I log everything, med changes, side effects etc and I can’t prove it but it fits my “pattern” and my doc concurs. I lost at least 30% and will be regrowing for the next 2 yrs. Again. So frustrating, my hair had recovered so nicely I let it grow longer than normal and I got a lot of compliments. Then I have to go and cut it all off, my hair dresser, doc everyone was so kind but they totally could see the loss. Doc was very kind and is monitoring me closely make sure I am optimal on everything. If you have any suggestions re hair I’d appreciate it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Since being on a better treatment and getting optimal will help reverse that terrible hair loss, I have alternatives on this page if you scroll down: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Also, if your iron fell, that is also a common reason for hair loss. Four iron labs to do mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com
In the meantime, biotin will help if you take enough. It does mess up your labs though, so you won’t want to go by them when on biotin. TSH result can look even lower, FT4 can look even lower, etc. They are just false labs compared to what’s going on due to biotin use. We get off for a week minimum before retesting our thyroid-related labs.
Yesi
Rachel,
Sorry to break it to you but David nor anyone there care. I spoke with many people at the main office. They promised to send a mailer, call my pharmacy, exchange my meds. Refund me, and they did nothing. All lies. After months of going down hill and countless doctor visits I have since moved on, found a great Nurse Practioner who was willing to prescribe compounded thyroid meds till I found my correct dose. My thyroid med is synthetic T3/T4. There is no reliable porcine powder anywhere, I’ve called many pharmacies across the country. I am very happy with the synthetic T3/T4, and my numbers are finally great. I will never be going back to desiccated thyroid med, its not worth my time or health dealing and waiting for these company manufacturers to get thier acts together. My compounded meds cost about $76 for a 3 month supply, which is about $10 more than what I would have paid for an NP thyroid 3 month supply but way less if I had gone to Armour. I get my prescription filled at Skips Pharmacy in Floroda.
Bonnie Medd
I’m currently on Tirosint-SOL and cytomel. I haven’t felt good since Naturthroid went south, Then NP.
My question: is ANYONE optimal and doing great on Thyrovanz?
Janie Bowthorpe
Get optimal on the tirosint and T3. Then you will feel good. Read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Bonnie Medd
Just got my results back. Not sure what to do here. Yes, I’ve been under stress with the mast cell stuff, is this why my reverse T3 is so high? Any suggestions?
Thyroid levels @ 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15mcg Cytomel
12/5/19
Free T4 is 1.67
Range 0.76-1.70
Free T3 is 3.6
Range 1.9-3.9
Reverse T3 is 22.8
Range 9.0-27.0
Rachel Hamlin
some people just can’t metabolize synthetic hormones. I can’t and now I’,m having a hage panic b/c my kids are going to watch me slowly die a horrible death b/c I let those bastards take out my whole thyroid and I don’t know what to do! I can’t go back to lying on the couch after a few minutes of activity my little kids need me!! I’m so scared and mad..
Janie Bowthorpe
What about T3? Have you tried getting optimal on it? I did horrible on T4 alone, but I soared on the former good NDTs in spite to not converting the synthetic T4. Right now, the best options are:
1) T4 with T3 and getting optimal
2) Compounded NDT and getting optimal – they seem to have a good source of porcine powder
3) Armour and getting optimal, and if someone can’t get there on it, they add T3 to it and get optimal
4) T3-only, multi-dosed, and getting optimal
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Yesi
Try compounded synthetic T3/T4 . Worked for me
Betty
I think I may have an answer to the cat pee taste in the NP. I searched the internet and found out that buckwheat honey can sometimes have a cat pee taste for some people. I than went and found out that pigs can eat buckwheat. What if the ingredient that they are buying in Europe is from pigs that have eaten buckwheat? Just a thought.
Val Varela
I am a Nurse Practitioner and have been prescribing all of the above mentioned thyroid preparations (except Canadian) for years. I have watched my patients labs as well as their symptoms go South for the last several years. We have used many different combinations and I am finding the same results that you have reported here. One thing that I would like to know about, is somewhere I heard that the NDT from China was coming from cloned pigs. Is there anyway to verify this information (misinformation)? Also, I see how dangerous this road is. We do need to gather together to stop this great threat to our health. Thank you for your Blog!
Janie Bowthorpe
It is extremely refreshing to have you post here. And yes, we are gathering. We have no choice when it’s the medical community, especially in Endocrinology, fails us. I will be posting more.
Betty White
Have I got a problem. I was on NP and losing weight, but when the new batch came out it made me sick, itchy, and hair falling out. I changed to Nature throid and started to feel better and my hair has stopped falling out, but I cannot lose weight now. Any ideas? I can’t take armour and will not go back to NP as long as they are making it the same.
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour with T3 can work if you get optimal
or
T4 and T3 and get optimal.
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Betty
Thanks Janie. I may have to go on the t4 and t3. Armour caused panic attacks and it costs too much for me. I was on it for 30 years, before going on nature throid when it was good and than went to NP when it was good. I never had panic attacks with them.
Annomaly
When I got the news that I had Graves Disease, radiation was required for me. It was life threatening. It took 6 months of Synthroid poisoning to find your website and then my quest to find the right mix of Porcine medication began. Along with much reading and researching on my part, there were a lot of bumps along the way – and after much trial and error (and a dozen doctors and even more tests than I can count) I found the right doctor and the right medicine. WP was THE solution for me. By the time I felt great – it disappeared.
Like you I was devastated to start back at GO to find a solution. I even went the compound route. It didn’t take long before I felt awful again – and demanded testing which showed my levels were very off.
I took the initiative and contacted the compound pharma asking about the filler used – there are many different fillers which can impact absorption which I discovered in my research. I got educated on the different types (slow release capsules typically uses a type of cellulose that makes taking the medicine virtually worthless for me) and learned that you can request a different type of filler like a powered milk (which is bad for my lactose intolerance) or none at all. The idea that the filler was impacting me was news to me. No one told me I had an option to change them in my compounded medicine! So I had my medicine remade and went back for testing again months later, only to still have my numbers askew and feeling awful. I also learned that compounding medicines were NOT covered by my insurance 🙁
I called the pharmacy again -and much to my surprise I learned that they had made my medicine with Synthetic T4 (Synthroid) because it seems the doctor had failed to notate PORCINE. Imagine my horror – at least I had an answer and fired my doctor.
I asked the compounding pharmacy a lot of questions. What I also learned was that most of the Porcine Powder now used for compounding was being sourced from China – and tariffs and import fees were on the horizon ready to bring higher costs to the consumers.
For me, a doctor switch was in order and with my new doc, a new medicine. We got me back to ‘optimal’ on NP Thyroid. To be honest, optimal or not, I learned that with each 3 month supply of medicine, blood work is in order to ensure that the latest ‘batch’ of medication isn’t negatively impacting me. For the first time in 5 years I have been consistently normal now for 1 consecutive year. I’m not thrilled about the extra cost of testing, but its a small price to pay compared to having bad medicine make me feel worse.
I also learned (the hard way) not to combine ‘leftover’ medicine from a prior prescription lot with the newest prescription I receive. This means I can more easily identify what Lot of medication may be negatively impacting me should a switch of ingredients take place.
Even more concerning now is the fact that the standards for the animals in other countries aren’t as stringent as they are in the US. A September 2019 CNN news article reported over 100 million pigs died of swine flu in China. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/business/china-pork-swine-fever-pigs/index.html
This news can only mean that the future cost of Porcine based medicines will be fluctuating and may also be in short supply if the sourcing is coming from China.
If I could buy a 1 year supply in bulk I would – that way I would be sure that I would have the same medicine from a Lot that works for me. Unfortunately that isn’t realistic under my medical insurance.
Porcine based medicines are only as good as the base AND the FILLER- which are NOT required to be listed by the manufacturers in the ingredients list. When labs have a surplus of a filler used for a different medication they can finish it up by mixing it into our medication to help them save costs. This happens more frequently than anyone wants to admit.
Asking ‘what has changed’ in my medicine – will get the answer ‘nothing’ and in fact its still porcine the medical ingredient- so that answer is technically correct. The reality is that more likely than not the FILLERS may have changed and with it our ability to absorb. No one is going to identify what FILLER was used because they aren’t required to. Its a guessing game at best.
I have chosen to continue with NP Thyroid and testing every 3 months to spot any fluctuation in my numbers as early as I possibly can. My daily thyroid cocktail includes (every other day) 15mg or 20mg Cytomel, 75mg NP Thyroid, with Orthomolecular Adren-All and B-Complex, Viviscal Professional, 2000U D3, and every other day Iodine supplements.
Being vigilant about our medicines and what is in them is the only way we can remain healthy. It seems more frequent testing can help us to identify when changes have occurred and minimize the impacts we may feel because of it. Never be afraid to ask questions at the pharmacy because mistakes happen all the time !
Good luck to everyone in their quest for ‘optimal’ in 2020.
a
Theresa
HI Janie,
I hope you had a good Thanksgiving! I’m reaching out to you because I want to make it my mission with your help to find an ethical pharmaceutical company that will manufacture a clean NDT that will not compromise on quality for the sake of greedy profiteering. The only NDT I can take is WP Thyroid and it today it is virtually worthless! It does nothing for me like the original brand. RLC Labs keeps saying they haven’t change the formulation but something has changed because our bodies do not lie. Furthermore, they are sourcing their NDT from China and who knows for sure how the NDT is being manufactured. Personally I don’t want to take any medications from China because there standards are not like they were in the US. Let me know your thoughts. I watched your video recently and you said you need our help so I am offering my help to do what we can to bring NDT back to the market without all the synthetic and toxic fillers and additives. – Theresa
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Theresa. Yes, every single pharmaceutical has said they changed nothing, which we all know is a ridiculous statement. Or then you have acella which only admits it’s using a European source, failing to mention all the other obvious changes that patients keenly see.
Also we can’t definitively say that the thyroid powder is coming from China. Sure, we can state we wonder about it, but to state it as fact is not helpful.
Another problem is supply of the porcine powder in the US. It appears to have been lost, which leaves you to wonder if any pharmaceutical would have the same problem of having to source it from out of the country.
What I would like more than anything right now is to have a private conversation with an insider in the pharmaceutical industry as to what is going on. Someone speaking the dirty truth…
Karen H.
I checked with Armour last week and with RLC the week before and they both said all of their porcine thyroid is sourced from WITHIN the continental US for Armour and the continental US and Canada for RLC. Even Acella claims theirs come from Europe, not China. So I don’t think the China connection has been established.
gina
They are lying. There are no remaining NDT powder producers left in the U S. It is produced in China and imported by the U.S. They purchase it from the importer so they can make that claim but it doesn’t change the fact that it is a product of China. Ask for proof of where it is produced. Everyone has a right to know where the ingredients in their medicine comes from.
Just Me
I know this is frustrating, but we cannot say companies are lying about sourcing without proof. We are getting so much misinformation and rumors. Try to find proof. Hire a private investigator, contact an investigative reporter. Understand that people getting supplements from Thailand are probably getting NDT from China.
Janie Bowthorpe
Just Me is right. I’m glad she beat me to the punch–I don’t always get back to posts quick enough. I don’t mind approving everyone’s frustrations, but we can’t make black and white statements that we can’t prove.
Bonnie Medd
Jamie, I may just be dense, but I cannot find where your post is that says what our alternatives are now. Can you let me know the link?
I’m not sure if it’s all this change, but now it appears I’ve developed something called Mast Cell Activation Disease. Every single day I deal with welts all over my body. Burning, itching welts. Has this happened to anyone else? It’s put me in the hospital twice. This started just over a month ago. This is the worst I’ve ever been, even with thyroid cancer and wavering levels. This is debilitating.
Right now I’m on 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15 mcg if cytomel. I feel as if I’m not even on thyroid medicine. I get tested on Monday.
Janie Bowthorpe
Here you go: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
Janie Bowthorpe
We all have to get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Bonnie Medd
Haha. I skimmed through this (all my poor brain can handle right now) and completely missed the options now section. Duh. Thanks.
Any idea on the Mast Cell thing? Apparently it’s another autoimmune thing. Is this something other people without thyroids deal with?
Janie Bowthorpe
Researchers do see a connection with mast cell syndrome and certain autoimmune diseases. But I don’t get the impression one has to have an autoimmune problem to have it. And the inappropriate release of mast cells has nothing to do with not having a thyroid. But I would do an internet search for triggers of the inappropriate release and see if you can avoid those triggers.
RenegadeRN
Bonnie, my mom and daughter both have mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS). No doctor could diagnose them as they have vastly different symptoms… but I stumbled onto a book written by the doc, considered to be the “godfather” of MCAS! Get “Never Bet Against Occam” off Amazon, written by Dr. Lawrence B. Afrin MD. It’s kinda dense, but worth it.
My daughter and mom take 2 mast cell stabilizers daily, that are over the counter, works well! One is a product by Bluebonnet Labs called Super Quercetin, has Quercetin, Vitamin C and other stabilizers, and Zyrtec or Claritin which stabilizes another of the histamines.
If these fail due to something really provoking those mast cells, (like eating leftover Thanksgiving ham), they take Benadryl as a “rescue” med. It has truly changed my adult daughter’s life! Hope that helps!
Bonnie Medd
Thank you!!!
Meagan Kelsey
Ketotifen an H1 has been helpful for me with mast cell! Rx from immunologist and compounded. Insurance covers. Lifesaver! Dr wanted am/pm. I only took PM. For over a year. Finally got toxic breast implants out and source solved. Undertreated thyroid, adrenal strain.. cortisol reactions made me have mast cell reactions (degranulation) another ex more helpful for gi mast cell: cromolyn sodium, can also be applied to skin. Mast cell is also associated with genetic EDS
Nikkeia Hardman
Great news!! I’ve tried all the Old and reformulated NDT and yep they all have gone south!! I have been without a thyroid for 13 years. I’m doing super on T.R by T man. I ordered it from Thailand and I didn’t need a Prescription. They come in 65 mcg and they taste very good (like papaya). I’ve been taking them for 3 months now and I love it!! No side effects and you get 2000 pills for $90. Give it a try!!!
Lou Ann Myers
Can someone please private message me a link to buy this T.R. by T man please?
simona
could you please let us know where u take tr from tman? i tried to buy online and i coulnd’t find anything
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not being made anymore, thus why you are having a hard time finding it.
Judih
Good morning and GOOD NEWS for us NDT users!
I found a compounding pharmacy; their 1gr. = 60 mg.
https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy
They are so nice to deal with and will get my Rx in 5-10 business days!
There is always hope!
Blessings,
Judith
catherine
I was previously on NP. I recently switched to compounded porcine powder. My SHBG has been steadily raising. It was 101 back in June, then 147 in September before switching to compounded and now 163. I do not know what to think? I am not going through menopause yes. I am 46 and hormone levels otherwise were ok.
Why to women on T3/NDT/testosterone treatment tend to have high SHBG?
Leenis
I’ll add my feedback on WP Thyroid to that of others who have found out that it doesn’t work the same any more. I’ll not bore you with the long saga of my thyroid journey. I had put my hopes on the WP Thyroid which had transformed my life before it disappeared from the market. My joy of being able to access it again has turned to huge disappointment instead.
Thank you for running this website, Janie. It’s been very helpful to me. I had wondered if I was the only one who reacted badly to the new WP Thyroid…
Christa Fazzi
Hello,
I am curious what people have noticed with WP Thyroid recently. My husband’s last batch 3 months ago was somewhat smelly (kind of like the issues we had with the NP Thyroid before he switched back to WP) and NO specks. I picked up a batch today and now (just like the NP) it has specks in it but absolutely NO smell…….
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s like all the American brands are using the same source…..
By th way, are you sure they didn’t substitute NP for your WP? Pharmacies tend to do that….
Christa Fazzi
Hi Janie – No, they did not substitute with NP – it has the RLC labs imprinted on it. I found it weird that it did not smell though like the NP started to do and like the last batch of WP. I knew they have all been changing and he has been struggling so we were considering a switch to synthetic T3/T4, but then it took me by surprise that even after the change in the WP last year, (this year?) that is was only NOW that I was seeing specks. Admittedly I was hoping that it was a good sign only in that the last batch without specks a few months ago didn’t seem like he was taking anything! Sigh. Thank you for absolutely everything you do.
Theresa
WP Thyroid used to work optimally but now after the reformulation it no longer works for me. Unfortunately, WP Thyroid was the only medication I could take because all the other NDTs contain synthetic fillers and caused even worse symptoms. I even worked with a compounding pharmacy to prepare a NDT formulation only to find out 3 months later it was generic synthetic T4 and T3 which smelled like the the real thing. I was deceived and you cannot trust PCCA who sets the standards. They are not transparent about what they formulate in their labs and they do not inform compounding pharmacies with the truth to educate the patient if you inquire. Every time I ask more and more questions I get more resistance. When I was on the compounding formula which I thought was 100% NDT powder in capsules I developed high blood pressure which I never had in my life plus a host of other symptoms. And now I’ve learned that our NDT formulations are sourced from China. We don’t even have a trustworthy manufacturer in America that manufactures clean NDT anymore. They sold out for big pharma and money and don’t give a squat about jeopardizing hypothyroid patients health. I think this is criminal and they get away with It. I no longer trust and rely on RLC Labs because they have never been transparent with what is going on behind the scenes. I’ve heard many patients say the new WP formulation does not work but RLC says they haven’t change a thing. We know better. Our symptoms don’t lie. I even tired T3 but this is also synthetic. We have been deceived and misled. I’ve tried bovine but this does not work the same and there is no consistency or brand you can trust. I guess what we can do as a patient group is maybe find a honest investor who would be willing to start a new company to manufacture clean NDT. At this point, I am at a lost. I recommend everyone research and educate themselves on China’s 2023 Intiatiave to be the number one supplier of pharmaceuticals.
Luis Castaño Sánchez
Hello. Few days ago, I see your video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdTB5IRZhs ) and I’m spreading it on FB. But one friend of me (here in Spain) ask me one question: There is maybe one spanish version for better understanding? If not, it’s possible to make one? Thanks a lot for your work. Luis Castaño.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi there Luis. The Spanish translation was done on the 2012 edition. It shows here: https://laughinggrapepublishng.com It’s very expensive to do translations, so we’ll have to wait for awhile to see if there are enough funds from LGP to do another one. But right now, just the 2012 translation.
Luis Castaño Sánchez
Hi: Thanks for the quick answer but I think you misunderstood maybe my question. I have your book in Spanish and it was (and is) very very helpful, so thanks a lot. My question was about the video. Words in the video are in English. And I think it will be great making an spanish version (or maybe sbutitles). That’s my question. Best regards.
Janie Bowthorpe
I have emailed you.
sam
Hi
I suspect that the powers that be read these forums and don’t want people to get better so have put pressure on the manufacturers to change the NDT products. Its nothing to do with profit as they will lose business if their products don’t work!
Its more likely the drug industry as a whole that run the FDA and politicians that insisted on the changes.
There needs to be an investigation as to who instigated these changes. Are there any whistleblowers out there?
Michaeline
Is anyone using thyroid S from Thailand? It seems reasonable and easy to order over the internet.
I would love to have it as a back up in case the desiccated compound I will be getting doesn’t work out. Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
A lot do and they like it.
CHRISTIANNE Pereira Giesbrecht Chaves
It seems Thyroid S is sold out. As well some others from the same manufacturer.
Mimi
I too would like to switch to Thiroid S. Would you mind posting where you ordered this from. My preliminary search showed 189.00 ?? Want to order from a reliable source
Thank you
(From Janie: Please only email Mimi. Sources should never be posted on a public site)
Nikkeia Hardman
Yes I take T.R by T man from Thailand and I feel great!! Been on it for 3 months now!!! I love it!!
Lori
That supplement has been out of stock for a long time, please be cautious of anyone trying to sell it.
Maria
Hi, has anyone tried adding nutri meds or Thyrogold to their ndt and been successful? I’ve had trouble finding a good endo and the one I have now at least is willing to prescribe Armour but she keeps me at 2.25 grains because of my low tsh. My free t3’s and free t4’s are a little low and I definitely have hypo symptoms so I thought I might add in some otc thyroid meds to do the trick. Has anyone tried that combo?
Criss
I’m interested in hearing about Nutri-Meds.
Lorie
Nutrimeds is a good source but when I ordered it in the spring it was backordered and sometimes hard to get. It worked well. Almost too well as i had to back off due to dizziness. They make porcine and bovine.
Cherie Irwin
Hi, another aspect to think about is not the processing of the NDT but that it is the pigs who actually make it- the raw product is actually pig thyroid glands ground up. I think there must of been big change in what the pigs are fed on, feed with more iodine, feed with other growth hormones, feed with huge amounts of vitamins, feed with some antibiotics, new vaccinations for pigs, the list goes on and on of the variables that could make the pig thyroids unhealthy and not as useable for humans with thyroid disease.
Karen H.
Thanks Cherie, this has occurred to me too, especially since Acella is now sourcing their product out of the US. In that respect, Naturethroid or Armour should be the best bets, but unfortunately they have changed too. I keep hoping RLC will figure things out and return with a product we can use again. They were by far the best NDT I have ever used in over 30 years of taking these drugs.
Janie Bowthorpe
RLC has always denied changes, and we are now approaching 1 1/2 years since it changed. Sadly there appears to be nothing in the works in changing the disaster they now have. Same with Erfa. Same with the makers of Armour who charge a very high amount. Same with Acella.
Lori
I think it’s a matter of profit, sometimes the companies change when there is a pig shortage but when the pig shortage is over if they can sell their product for a double or triple profit margin by purchasing cheaper pigs they figure why switch back? I think the only way patients can be guaranteed a good consistent thyroid is to have a pig co op owned by patients so the pigs can’t be sold to China every time they have a swine flu or fever epidemic.
Greg
Maybe we need signatures…..
Read this from France…..they got the government’s attention for a synthetic product and made the company change back.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/france-brings-back-phased-out-drug-after-patients-rebel-against-its-replacement
Mimi
I was told on 11/20 by Dave at Acella that they have switched their source of raw materials to source in China and that has been the “Only Change” however their Medical Affairs Department has now called me every day after the initial interview. I have not responded as I am seeking advice.
Janie Bowthorpe
And again towards Acella, what about the awful taste? That’s a change. What about the awful smell? That’s a change. What about the large body of people who are reporting a return of hypo? That’s a change. What about those who report burning down their esophagus, burning or nausea in their stomach? That’s a change.
antonella
Could please someone share experience with the new formulation of erfa thyroid?
thank you so much!
antonella
Betty White
Has anyone heard from Acella about NP. Last month I contacted them about it and they ask for a sample of my meds to test. So far i have not heard from any of them. I sent them an email last Friday and no one has contacted me.
Janie Bowthorpe
We have no proof that Acella is doing anything to fix the problem of their current pills.
Venus Childress
I spoke with David Margolis (sp?) @ Acella this week. He denied having any knowledge of this issue. He told me he would contact my pharmacy to arrange replacing my current scrip, but he never did. Additionally, he said there was no guarantee that the new bottle would be any better.
I am with you Janie, disgusted.
I don’t like to buy into conspiracy theories, but something isn’t right here. Why would every single manufacturer of NDT suddenly be providing a sub-par product?
Kathryn
For anyone having issues with the fillers in NDT, you couls try taking a digestive supplement that contains cellulase. To some extent, it can help break down the fillers so your body can absorb more of the actual thyroid hormone. Not a perfect solution, but it can help keep you afloat while your figuring out what to do next.
Lisa M
It’s so strange. Since the change in formulas I have been feeling over medicated, anxiety, teeth problems, sciatica, frequent breakouts of shingles, not sleeping well. I thought it was Armour so I switched back to NT and the same thing. So I cut my grain in half and actually feel better, but now my TSH is in the high range again. It went from 6 to 12 in 3 months. I don’t get it. I was doing so well on the old NT formula! I felt like a million bucks.
Betty White
Just wondering, are you talking about Naturethroid?
Lori
Sounds like what I had when I had a severe imbalance w/ symptoms of to much t3 most likely caused my adrenals raising the white flag. I found that when I was shaking at night Milk Thistle by Gaia worked wonders for shutting down a crash and stopping the shaking. Milk Thistle helps w/ Rt3. I found this useful only when I had crashes not as a regular part of my vitamin routine. It can’t be taken with in 4 hours of NDT or it will make it ineffective. Also one teaspoon of organic raw unrefined coconut oil 3 times per day does wonders for my thyroid, also a great oil to use for cooking to make sure soybean oil is avoided.
Michaeline
Hi. Can anyone recommend a compounding pharmacy to compound desiccated thyroid?
Has anyone used NPS pharmacy for compounding? I don’t have a thyroid so I can’t mess around with NP thyroid. I have about a months supply of the good NP that is working. Thank you in advance!
Ellen
The Village Green Apothecary in Bethesda, MD would be the pharmacy that I would contact. They have been compounding for over 30 years. Very helpful and ship anywhere. I would contact them. Website: https://www.myvillagegreen.com/compounding-pharmacy/
Michaeline
Thank you Ellen! Are you optimal on a compound thyroid there?
Ellen
I still have another month of the good NP left. My doctor wants me to try Armour but if that doesn’t work, I will be contacting The Village Green. They have been my pharmacy for nutritional needs for many years.
Michaeline
Ellen,
I just called my village green pharmacy and they are no longer making compounded thyroid meds.
Dorothy
I looked around for compounded NDT. The source I used no longer compounds NDT because they can’t find an acceptable source of raw porcine powder. I can’t find a compounder that sources the powder from North America so I’m doing synthetic T4/T3 combo compounded med. I can control the fillers and ratio but time will tell if this works. I loved the old NDT products, and my antibodies disappeared.
Kerry?
Just curious–why would you compound T3 and T4 and not just take them separately? Doesn’t that have the potential to make them ineffective by adding fillers?
Janie Bowthorpe
T4 and T3 as non-compounded tablets already have fillers. The only advantage of compounded is that you can choose your own fillers, such as olive oil or acidophilus.
Another advantage is that the compounders have a source of porcine powder that is still working.
But on the other side of the coin, some people think it’s an advantage with compounded that you can make it slow release. It’s not an advantage. T4 is already “slow releasing” by converting the T4 to T3 as the body needs it. Even if you feel you don’t convert T4 well, what patients have noticed is that slow-release of the T3 is very imperfect and inconsistent from day to day. Some have reported over the years feeling like it all runs out before the mid to late afternoon and they get hypo symptoms.
All in all, having done what I do for 17 years now and observing patients, I have found it silly for me to pay for what has always been way more expensive plus it always bothered me what some (not all) patients were reporting about the imperfection of slow-release. Today though there is an advantage of compounders having a still-working source of NDT. For me, I would just request no slow-release, and still take it twice a day…
Gina
Hi Janie sorry but i’m a bit confused, why do you say that all compounding pharmacies have effective sources? I don’t think they all take their stuff from the same source, don’t they? Or do you know that the source from which every compound pharmacy has a good pork powder is only one and is certainly reliable? Because instead I have read somewhere that even compounders can use cheap pork powders, from China or other …., thanks for all the informations
Janie Bowthorpe
They do get their powder from the same source, at least in the US.
Gina
I am in the United States right now and this is not true, i mean really…. I also read from a girl right here on your blog who spoke to her pharmacist who said that most of the powder comes from China and to me they told the same, by more and more American pharmacies, I’m sorry but it’s not like that … otherwise could you say a pharmacy that uses this “same good source” that you say? Because otherwise it is useless since me and others have been told something else ….., I would like to know who supports this, because it is not true …..,right in the comments a lot of people say this same thing, where are these pharmacies with good pig powder? Where are they hiding? I’d like to know….,
Janie Bowthorpe
Gina, just because there is suspicion as to where the porcine powder is coming from for NP Thyroid, Naturethroid, WP, Erfa, et al…and just because a large percentage of porcine powder is produced in China (note it said “large”, not ALL is coming from China)….it doesn’t mean that compounded porcine is coming from the same bad source…yet. There are plenty of people who have reported still doing quite well on compounded NDT/porcine powder. And do note that the source for porcine powder for compounders has always been different than what pharmaceuticals get. Pharmaceuticals appear to be getting a bad source, but compounders are still getting a good source…so far.
And compounding pharmacies aren’t “hiding”. lol. We just haven’t kept track of all those mentioned by doing a list. Maybe someone has been writing those compounding pharmacies down as they are reported and post them here.
Betty
What is everyone taking now that there are problems with NP. I went back to my old pills, but will be running out soon. I had problems with the new np like itching and heart palpatations. Is there a group on facebook that talks about this? I would like to have more conversation about what to do after the np mess.
Janie Bowthorpe
The only American-made NDT that may still work is Armour, but it’s iffy. Some may be doing ok on it, but others have reported they had to add T3 to it to get truly optimal. Optimal puts the free T3 at the top part of the range and a mid-range T4. And having optional frees is important so it doesn’t all backfire on you sooner or later. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optima
Also be prepared that they made Armour very expensive.
Other alternatives are getting optimal on the two synthetics.
You are currently where it’s talked about the most. Look at all the comments.
Betty White
I would just like to see more answers to peoples posts. I do see some that talk about it, but more that are unanswered. I do see that you answer a lot of them and I am thankful for that. I was on armour for years, but a couple of years ago found out it was what was causing my painic attacks. I changed meds and it seemed within weeks the panic went away. Will never go back to armour and it cost so much now. I think I will try nature-throid again. I know it has its problems, but I cannot take this np again. I am also thinking about levo and asking the Doc to add a T3 to it. I am just lost.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi there Betty. It sounds like being confused and frustrated as to what to do is bigger than me not answering comments. There are a lot of answers here by me. 🙂 Other comments by people here are just that….comments that require no reply. 🙂
I talked about what to do in a former blog post, i.e. alternatives. And the good news is that I’m compiling another blog post about it now. 🙂
But Naturethroid is not one to go back to. It went horribly south as experienced by too many. Instead, you might want to go with T4 and T3 and get optimal. Even compounded NDT is an option, as their source of porcine powder is still a good one. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Betty White
So much to think about. I had so much trouble with synthroid and ones like them, but I may try them again and see about adding the cytomel to it. I just wished they would think about us and not about their own greed. I think it was more about money than anything else that made the makers of NP to go overseas for their main ingredient.
Greg
Why is ThyroGold not even mentioned by you. Has it gone South too? Nobody takes it serious as an option?
Janie Bowthorpe
Greg, I mention Thyrogold a lot. But you have to be prepared that there are occasions that a particular bottle has weaker pills than other bottles. We have seen this occasionally as reflected by someone’s labs and symptoms. Might be wise to have T3 on hand if one of these bottles gets into your hands.
Kaleb's Mom
My son is having issues like Ros….Free T4 is .86, Free T3 is 3.4, TSH is 0.214 and yes, he’s been taking biotin for hair loss. Should he quit that? How do I get this kid optimal again? Anxiety levels are climbing, too, poor kid.
Long story short..Armor for 4 yrs., didn’t work. In 2016, tested for cushings..negative, BUT new endo put him on WP which we noticed big changes, so while trying to get optimal, then the shortage hit. He began NP..it was great..was optimal by Dec. 2018. Began weight loss program in Jan. 2019, dropped 50 lbs. THEN in Aug 2019, noticed hypo symptoms coming back. Changed back to WP in Sept/Oct. after finding a pharm that had it. Wasn’t feeling any better. Former doc put him on Naturethroid after labs above-doc likes Naturethroid, but we told him that many were having issues with NDT. Normally, doc runs RT3, Ferritin, Iron, Vit. D, but it hasn’t showed up and I just emailed doc today to ask if we’re still waiting on labs or if he ran them at all.
Kaleb's Mom
Oh, and doc wants to increase Nature Throid from 3 tabs (65 mg tab) to 3 1/2 tabs.
Janie Bowthorpe
Just an FYI: we’ve had people increase and increase with Naturethroid to no avail. It’s not what it used to be. So watch the free’s.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, we have to be off biotin for about a week.
It just may be better to be on the two synthetics for the time being. And get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Ros
If I hadn’t found this I wouldn’t have believed it. I hadn’t noticed any change as I am usually asymptomatic on Naturethroid , however my last lot of bloods are bizarre. My FT4 is unbelievably low and my FT3 is over the top. Am I running on adrenaline? I don’t know- I feel very calm. Have started alternating NDT with synthetic T4 alternate days to see what happens. Don’t know whether this is good or not. Have read your choices above with interest.
Ros
Janie Bowthorpe
First, have you been taking biotin? Biotin can do that.
If not, everything is bizarre now with the American-made NDT’s in one degree or another. But usually, with results like that, it can be revealing a cortisol problem.
Finally, it’s not T4 you should have added. It’s T3.
ros
No Biotin. Reluctant to take T3 ( not that I have any) when I am already over the top. My pulse was higher than normal but has come down to near normal now that I have taken T4 and no NDT. Will look into the synthetic T3 to add to synthetic T4 as an option.
Janie Bowthorpe
What I didn’t say is that a high free T3 like that can be about this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling. That’s more about testing and treating an adrenal problem.
ros
Thanks Janie, I have read through the information which was most useful and I will be taking steps to test and correct appropriately.
Angie F.
Ros..I had the same phenomena in the ER…2 hours or so after taking my evening meds..with high BP and high HR…inCREDibly high FT3 and bottomed out T4…I don’t think that was pooling..I think it was reflective of what is in the meds..I have one theory that we’re either no longer getting porcine a/o synthetics along with it, primarily T3..What makes me think so are those labs (previous day am prior to taking meds looked a little better with LOWER T4 and T3, however) and the recent T3 shortage…I said this on another thread..it’s as if there’s a sudden T3 dump (lasts about an hour to hour and a half for me) and then lower Frees…It’s as if I need, as Janie said, more T3 (and in my case T4), but a smoother, more prolongated delivery as I had on the old formulas. Something’s up..for darn sure.
Michelle Sarchiapone
Hi Janie! So after the NP fiasco, I switched over to a old batch of WP thyroid, a 3 month supply. Labs were optimal. I felt great. I am running out now so I am doing a experiment and mixing in the new WP with the old and retesting labs in 2 weeks to see what happens. I am three days in and its not looking good as I am already tired with a slight sore throat in the morning but we will see. One question: would it be possible to test in a week? Or do you think two weeks is necessary? My ND says two weeks when switching meds, but conceivably this is the same med so I should just stay stable which is why I thought 1 week. Thoughts? I will post labs when I get them.
Janie Bowthorpe
Just me, but I personally wouldn’t do that. Mixing bad with good, to me, is still going to contribute to inferior results, even if less inferior than WP alone. But if you want to continue, and if it’s a similar amount to what you used to be on and had optimal frees before, I personally wouldn’t wait two weeks for testing since you are already feeling bad. And whatever your labs are, they will probably be even worse in a few more weeks, sadly. 🙁
Sandy
Janie, do you have a copy of the Opitmal Lab Values document with a white background? I have the one with the blue background & would like to write on it, but it’s not possible since the background is dark when printed. Thank you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Not sure what you mean? Contact me here and I’ll reply, then you can respond to my reply and attach a photo: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/contact
Jean
I decided to go to a compound pharmacy. Good News! i feel better, but I only took 1 pill so far.
The thing with compound pharmacies based on my experience is that many of them have the attitude issue on synthetic vs. dessicated thyroid. For some reason, many, many doctors, nurses, pharmacists all agree that synthetic is the better choice and the most popular choice.
However, as we all know, we do not agree with that!!! If any of you have tried the compound route, beware that some pharmacists lie about what you are getting, which means, you don’t really know what your taking! Ugh. I did that with a pharmacist years ago. He gave me dessicated thyroid the first couple of months, and then switched it to synthetic and lied! I told him he wasn’t giving me the same medication, and finally, as we were going on and on with each other, he admitted he changed it to synthetic. So be careful where you go if you do go this route. Luckily, I found a pharmacist that carries both with absolutely no problem. Also, he gave me a choice on the filler! No more microcrystalline cellulose! I went with beet powder. That means no more oxidative stress! I wish you all good luck in finding what I found. I just hope this is going to be a regular process. We deserve to have what we absolutely need!! I’m sure you all agree after all we have been thru! I WISH YOU ALL GOOD LUCK!
Julia F.
HI! Would you mind sharing what compounding pharmacy you use? I’m having trouble finding a good one and I believe they can usually send it anywhere. Thanks so much!
Julia F.
Hi! I was wondering if there is a page or list somewhere of good compounding pharmacies with effective sources of either natural desiccated or synthetic t4/t3? I would pay any price for either synthetic or desiccated at this point if it’s effective. It seems like there’s even a difference between the synthetic versions at different compounding pharmacies although idk if that’s just my imagination. Since they can usually ship it out, I would love to find a good compounder! Also….I know cellulose is a no no but in terms of all the other options for the additives they can use, are they all equally optimal? (i.e., vitamin C, beet powder, ginger, etc.) It seems like I can’t absorb anything.
Also this is some total last ditch advise but I’ve been experimenting with squeezing lemon in my water when I take my meds because I think thyroid hormones absorb best in more acidic environments, and it seems to help. It’s cheap so might be worth experimenting if you’re super duper desperate like me.
Laura
Janie, I have had long term issues with thyroid. I went from having a doctor 15 years ago that went by how I felt, not just the numbers and I was on the good Armour Thyroid. Then after breast cancer, we moved and I had to rely on regular doctors and endocrinologists for help, they were NO help. I have been suffering for years because they all want me on Levrooxine T4. I have been to 3 doctors and 1 Endo in the last 2 years. All are ignoring my issues. The first doctor asked “ME” should I raise or lower your meds after getting tested???!!!! The next doctor gave me antidepressants that did not work, the 3rd try they wanted $400 for a scrip! Which was making me so dizzy I could not function. Their answer to this was to stay on the meds, if I need to go to the ER to let them know. I went off all antidepressants cold turkey I was so mad. Current Doctor…….We have had to deal with possible recurring Breast Cancer, my frozen shoulder (which I found out can be thyroid related) and now my back. I have asked for a lot of blood work to be done, I am determined to figure out whyyyy I am so tired allll the time, not to mention a list of symptoms. In my request I asked for TSH, Free T3, Free T4, reverse T3, those are all I personally know of. I got my labs back and they only tested the TSH!!!! I asked why. This was her response: Hello Laura, T3 and T4 are reflexly checked by the lab if the TSH is abnormal but in this case your TSH is normal. Also in regards to your adrenal question earlier, your cortisol is normal so no further adrenal labs are reflexed because cortisol would have to be abnormal if you had any adrenal abnormality. I hope this helps clarify things. Do not hesitate to let me know if you have further questions.
I’m at my end of my rope. I don’t know where to go for proper help. I have to go to someone that will take Medicare, I cannot pay out of pocket. I ordered your book at 4am this morning, as I could not sleep and started reading everything I could. I know there are many in my same position. If there is any advice you can give me I would be totally appreciative.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. I’m sorry what you been through.
And now it’s going to be important to work really hard to find a better doctor. For one, you can start calling pharmacies from the closest to the farthest away, and ask the name of a doctor that has been prescribing T3.
I don’t know where you live, but you could also ask in groups.
Third, there are all sorts of doctor lists out there for thyroid. So do a Google search for thyroid doctors, then read the reviews very carefully. That’s because some people allow someone to post a doctor they just “liked”, and it doesn’t mean they prescribed T3. So look closely.
Laura
Janie, thank you so much for replying! You just gave me information I would have never thought of. This gives me hope……I have not had hope in yearssssss. I will do everything you suggested. THANK YOU!!! I am 67 years old and live in California near Modesto (hopefully not for long LOL). My husband and I have been on the Keto diet for 7 weeks now to learn how to eat healthier and I need to lose at least 50 pounds or more. Today I have lost 14. It’s a start but a long way to go. I want to get off blood pressure meds and hopefully not be in as much pain with my back (I have osteopenia and frozen shoulder (which is also related to thyroid). I really need to feel healthier and out of this thyroid funk. Again thank you for your suggestions!!
housemaid
Janie, I made a comment on the thread “Uh,oh…..we need to talk about NP Thyroid” and it never appeared. In fact, there have been no comments at all on that thread since Oct. 25th, and it had over 1000 comments. I kept looking on there every day for a new comment and wondered, “Is Janie sick or something?” Then I found this thread and am glad to know you are OK. But maybe the comments on that thread have gone into Spam?
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, I occasionally find that a legit comment was lingering in spam. If I see them, I approve them out of spam. They are hard to catch as sometimes there’s hundreds of legit spam….then other times would might be a few, which makes a legit comment stand out.
housemaid
I think I found out what happened, Janie, and it is my fault. I saw all the comments on that thread since Oct. 25th on my husband’s computer downstairs today. Then I went upstairs to my computer and none of the more recent comments were showing. I then realized I needed to delete my history because my Lenovo has been showing me the same cache of that page for 2 weeks. I never had a computer that did that before. Sorry!
Janie Bowthorpe
Glad u figured that out. 🙂
Duane
Any Dr recommendations for the center to west part of PA?
Katrina
I would like to know as well for Central Pa
Debbie Shavitz
This new formulation stuff now makes sense. . I have been on Nature Thyroid for 25 years ish. I am 68, good shape, lots of exercise and energy level just okay. I moved from Nature Thyroid to NP Thyroid about a year ago. I was doing fine on 2 60 mg tablets. However, my TSH got extremely low, so my doctor was worried because I already have Ostepenia. She moved me down to 1 1/2 pills and now after a blood test with very low TSH, she wants me to go down to 1 pill, 60 mg. My eyes will close in the afternoons at my computer. Other than that, I have okay energy to do my biking, hiking etc. But I am getting rapid heart beats and more dizziness. My blood tests were: 11/19/2018 TSH 4.58 (ref .40-4.5); free T4 .8 (ref .8- 1.8); Free T3 2.3 (refer 2.3-4.2) ; T3 REverse 10 (ref 8-25). I think this was when I switched off of Nature Thyroid to NP.
Lab test were now done at Labcorp instead of Quest: (so ref ranges same for next two)
ON 6/12/2019 TSH .006 (ref .45 to 4.5); Free T4 1.26 (ref .82- 1.77); Reverse T3 20 (ref 9.2-24.1) and Free T3 3.1 (ref 2.0- 4.4)
ON 9/27/2019 TSH .008 ; Free T4 1.17; Reverse T3 17.5; Free T3 3.3
My doctor’s appointment is tomorrow 11/4, can you give me an idea of where I should go with this? I plan on bringing her the articles on the meaningless TSH
Thanks! Debbie
Janie Bowthorpe
Your doctor is terrible, Debbie. It’s never ever ever about the very normal low TSH when one has T3 in their treatment. In fact, many patients have seen osteopenia REVERSE when they get optimal with their frees (which naturally lowers the TSH). https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Debra Shavitz
Thanks for the quick response. My doctor is Chinese and very open about meds, so I will talk to her. I had convinced her to give me my 2 pill prescription anyway. So I will go back up to 1 1/2 or 2. But will the NP Thyroid work? I have started taking some Heme Iron, but the dizziness and racing heart may also be adrenals. Are you recommending any Adrenal Cortex supplement?
Janie Bowthorpe
NP has not worked anymore for the vast majority. You need to order and do a 24-hour adrenal saliva test to know what’s going on first: https://sttm.mymedlab.com/sttm-profiles/zrt-saliva-adrenal-4-sample–2
Angie F.
Hi Debbie…I want to weigh in on the NP and heart rate issues. While I also don’t think it’s necessarily about TSH, I have had the same thing on NP, with an ER trip in Oct and a cardio w/u today, and I’d urge caution with regard to raising it. I’m not so sure there isn’t a potency instability issue a/o contamination issue that we’re dealing with.
Janet
Debbie, my TSH has been almost zero for years. I just had a DEXA scan and am in normal range for bone density (I’m 65, no hormone replacement except 50 mg of pregnenolone per day) My doctor watches the free T4 snd T3 and vitamin D and ignores TSH.
Amy
Hi Debbie,
I would suggest looking into your Osteopenia. I went through all of this a few years back pre menopausal and I am very fit/runner so my bone density should be great. I came up with Osteopenia in my hips and then the docs freaked out over my low TSH.
I found; Dexa scans&results can have a significant error and the positioning of the hips is critical. You can be diagnosed with Osteopenia while having normal density for your age group. I also recall that estrogen depletion has a larger (negative) effect on bone density and low TSH due to thyroid meds is not the same as low TSH due to Graves disease. With that said being hypothyroid/low functioning does not replace bone cells at the proper rate and also nutrition absorption negatively impacts bone replacement. Likely more to this but I remember my docs eventually concurred with all of the above and I found the info/evidence using the internet, publications, studies etc.
Long story short my docs freaked out over nothing, messed with my medication, made me sick and as biochemist I did my own research and have done lab testing for decades so I am familiar with testing limitations etc. I paid for a second Dexa test and voila…I have normal bone density. My docs conceded as much as their ego(s) would allow and it was clear they started the whole mess based on faulty perception and no facts.
Since then I do not allow them to run the TSH test at all, they can only run free’s etc. My situation may not apply to yours of course but I just wanted to share as I got pretty upset back then only to find it was over nothing.
Dorothy
I took my NP 2 grain pills to the pharmacy to compare their new stock (I gobbled up their previous supply when I read reports of problems here). Here’s what happened:
Their pills didn’t have a smell which surprised the pharmacist (my pills had that familiar smell we all know). I was unable to sit them side by side for size comparison but they were lighter in color. Pharmacist said that the pills darken when they’ve been exposed to air. (My WP thyroid pills used to do this and RLC said it was normal, no need to have a desiccant pack, and that potency wasn’t effected.) Pharmacist said I needed to keep a desiccant in my pill bottle and gave me the extra one from their bottle. She said it would keep the pills stable and to also avoid keeping them near any moisture source (like bathroom). I smelled my bottle of pills the next day and guess what? Absolutely no smell! This was the same bottle of pills that had smelled the previous day. I smelled the desiccant pack and there was a slight chemical smell.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes they can take away the smell, but you do wonder what one is swallowing with the lesser smell due the desiccant.
Jeanne
That has been my worry EXACTLY Janie!
Cathy
I just ordered your new book, Janie. I’m 60 now and a year ago was prescribed 15 mcg of compounded T3 twice a day. It’s addressed a lifetime of hypoglycemia but I’m still struggling in many other ways. Without it, I’ve never seen my Free T3 over 2.8 and I haven’t seen a TSH over 2 since 2008. I don’t have elevated antibodies or reverse T3 and taking T4 doesn’t help so it seems I have a conversion issue. On this dose, my free T3 has ranged between 2.9 and 3.4 and I’ve never felt over stimulated and continue to struggle on several fronts as I said. Do you think it might be worthwhile to try some dosage of cytomel 3-4 times/day or a lower but more frequent dose of the compounded T3? I see my ND this week and we are looking into underlying causes but meanwhile I can’t help but wonder if I am still undertreated.
Janie Bowthorpe
You are underdosed. This is our goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Catherine Knight
Thank you. Have you come across any good references with regard to thyroid levels and gut motility? I thought I read recently somewhere that good motility (talking about the cleaning waves here) requires a T3 between 3 and 4 but now I can’t find that source.
Amy
I am back on a new batch of Nature-throid and feeling much better. My edema is gone and lost a couple of pounds, no more face puff etc. Labs improving and will test again. Take with a grain of salt but the stories “match” so I thought I would share.
I spoke to a couple of people in the pharm/manufacturing industry who said Nature-throid formulation is the same since 2010 (including manufacturing process). They lost their supplier virtually overnight due to the “other” big manufacturer trying to drive then out of business. As I was told Nature-throid and Armour only source from the US and/or Canada and the struggle for Nature-throid was to find an alternate supplier, meet specs etc. I was also told there has never been a raw product shortage in the US/Canada. Another tid bit was (most) NDT is stable/full potency for about 2 yrs assuming it is not exposed to heat etc. Nature-throid is guaranteed full potency for 3 yrs and WP for 2 yrs. I would assume your intel is better than mine – does this information sound valid?
Janie Bowthorpe
There’s always a possibility that RLC will quietly change it back. But at the same time, we see people who say they feel good on it, and their labs aren’t optimal. So they are destined to see it all backfire, sooner or later, due to still not being on a replacement dose–the dose the body says it needs over time. And we see people having problems getting those frees optimal on Naturethroid since it changed. So do test your frees based on what is here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal BOTH the frees. And see if you are or can get optimal. And let us know.
Karen H.
Thanks Amy! This is the most hopeful post I’ve seen in months. I felt my absolute best on Naturethroid and my labs were optimal. I’m hoping Nauturethroid has figured out what was causing the problems and has corrected for this. It would be so great to be able to switch back to them. The US sourcing is an additional plus.
gina
There is no place to “source” it from in the U.S. anymore… The U.S. gets it from China.
Just Me
@gina,
Proof please? Fear mongering with people who already don’t feel well isn’t a good idea.
Janie Bowthorpe
Gina, while it is true that the main US facility that once sourced pig thyroid powder to pharmaceuticals stopped doing so, there is no proof that all the pharmaceuticals are getting it from China. So not a wise statement.
Macie
I started to get the negative effects from the change to NP thyroid. How do convert synthetic T4 and T3? What is 1 grain of NP equivalent to in synthetic T4 and T3? I know this is a starting point for the new medication and I will continue to adjust to feel better.
Janie Bowthorpe
38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 per grain.
jose
does it have t1,t2,and calcitonin in addition to t3and tt4?
Janie Bowthorpe
Synthetic T3 is just T3. Synthetic T4 is just T4..T3 can convert to T2 and T1. Calcitonin can be prescribed.
Andrea
Before I started with 2 Grain of Acella and felt wonderful for some years, I took 75mcg T4. I am now thinking to go back on synthetics. If I do the calculation for 2 Grain Acella like it is written on the bottle, it would be 76mcg T4 and 18mcg T3. This is much higher than 75mcg T4. Would you recommend to start slightly lower or do people feel good by taking exactely the same amount of sinthetics as is described on the Acella bottle? thanks so much for replying!
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not necessarily “higher” though. It just means that you’d be getting direct T3 in the mix instead of solely depending on conversion of T4 to T3. But yes, I do wonder if it’s wiser to start a little lower, just in case. After a few weeks, we then test our frees. We are seeking what is on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Jeanne
My pharmacist has discovered that putting a desiccant pack in the bottle cuts the smell! It is quite tolerable and so far I haven’t noticed a change in weight or energy… but I definitely have the new pills… and take 3-1/2 grains daily.
Janie Bowthorpe
Keep us informed as sadly, many have reported a return of hypothyroid and a change in their frees. We’ll hope for you.
Jeanne
Thanks Janie! … and for all that you do and facilitate!
Dr. Jim Pugh
My daughter, 50 years old, Hashimotos symptoms are overwhelming ; she feels she wants to die it’s so bad. We are waiting for the lab results. Her previous results indicated Hashimotos. Found a applied kinesiologist who my son has been treated for forty years.
He seems profoundly adept in hypothyroidism.. your thought? After reading your books,I’m totally impressed. My daughters illness is dire.
Janie Bowthorpe
I have rarely heard of a doctor who is knowledgeable enough about all this. But that doesn’t mean you couldn’t try.
Can you teach her/guide her what is in the updated revision STTM book and the book called Hashimoto’s: Taming the Beast? Tell her it’s all VERY treatable and there’s no need to die? Because it really is very treatable.
Can she do a coaching call with me? https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/coaching-call
Alex
Jeanne, could you post the batch number and expiration date of the pills you are taking now, please. Thank you!
Jeanne
Alex, my 90 mg tablets have a lot # M331G19-5
There is also something called a S/N- 524777467866
And a GTIN #- 00342192331013
Hope that helps, I am not sure what those last 2 numbers represent or if that is relevant.
Update on status:
The only difference in my body I am noticing is a slight thinning of my hair at the crown. My hair is very responsive to stress and not sure if this is work stress or change in pills !
Janet
For those who need salivary cortisol testing, Mayo Medical Labs has it on their test menu. You can take the sample any time of day…the doctor just needs to write a separate order for each one if you want to get several readings in 24 hours. My insurance won’t cover most labs that offer the saliva testing. But this can be done through any hospital outpatient lab so it will be covered. You just need to get the collection tubes from them in advance.
https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/Specimen/84225
Janie Bowthorpe
This one will give you all four times for one price, too: https://sttm.mymedlab.com/sttm-profiles/zrt-saliva-adrenal-4-sample–2
Janet
Thanks – I have used them several times in the past and they are consistently in line with blood draws and my doctors feel they are very accurate. When I had original Medicare ZRT was covered, but after I switched to a Medicare advantage plan the coverage was denied. So it’s good to have the Mayo option as well.
Michelle L
I only took 4 days with of the new NP thyroid and I was sick to my stomach, couldn’t eat anything but a few chips every day for about 2 weeks. I was nauseous and was having multiple panic attacks every day, I still can’t look at a monitor or TV screen of any sort without getting nauseous. I had just went to the Dr and gotten my 3 month supply and with no insurance I haven’t been able to go back. I am taking L-Tyrosine and have been for probably 2 or 3 weeks now and even though I still don’t feel like I did when I was taking the old NP, one 90 and one 15, still a little tired occasionally, I oddly feel a little better than then as I’m having much less anxiety and panic attacks than I used to when I was. I’m only taking 500mg once a day right now as I have other health issues that I’m making sure isnt affected by it.Has anyone else tried taking L-Tyrosine supplements instead of using medications?
Michelle
Morning 😀
I’m stumped!! Been on Armour (Forrest) for about 6 years now after failing miserably on levothyroxin. Had no problems at all, changed my life in fact….I take one grain in the morning and one and a half at night. My recent lab test TSH 0.01 T4 24 and T3 7. This is normal for me and been consistent during this time. Lately I’ve got really bad itching Arms, back neck and head, my sleeping not brilliant (that could be a riggily hubby tho) no other symptoms at all. Endocrinologist says it’s the menopause but I’m not convinced. My skin is clear no dry patches or anything on the surface it feels crawly and within its driving me crazy!!! I’ve dropped 1/2 grain (since last labs) at night in case over medicated but no change. Just been reading about all the changes on here…shocking!!! Wondering if anyone else has just itching symptoms. Thank you
Ps I have no thyroid function due to RAI
Janie Bowthorpe
Can you provide the results with ranges? And confirm that those are the frees…
Greg
Michelle,
I’ve taken both L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine in various strengths throughout the years. I had a conversation with my MD about a month ago on dosages for both. We discussed our experiences, and concluded that taking large amounts in excess of 50 mg, orally on an empty stomach or sublingually, could provoke extreme anxiety, possibly by disrupting the dopamine receptor sights. The L-Tyrosine may be, in great part, provoking your anxiety. Hope you’re feeling better soon.
Danielle
Yes, I’ve been itchy-crawly too!! It’s recent, began after I started another bottle of WP, maybe a couple weeks ago. Driving me nuts!
Jenny Karsen
I’ve been taking my new bottle of NP Thyroid for about 3 weeks. I have never been so itchy and wheezy in my life. It’s scary- the wheezing. I thought it was from the fall rag weed and walks with my horse. But, I’ve experimented with not taking my NP meds and I get better, with the exception of brain fog. It’s getting worse though today. I literally itched my head, neck, arms non-stop for 45 minutes. And there’s this itch in my ears and throat. Oh, and suddenly when I eat certain foods, my lips start itching like I’m suddenly allergic to it. I go back to my doctor Monday. I’m not sure what to push for, but I’m leaning toward synthetics.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your alternatives:
1) Synthetic T3 with Synthetic T4 and getting optimal
2) T3-only multi-dosed 3 times a day, approx 4 hours apart. Some take a small amount at bedtime. Get optimal.
3) Compounded thyroid meds, either T4/T3 or their NDT powder, and get optimal.
4) Natural thyroid supplements, but get optimal.
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Russ
So, I’ve switched to a compounded bio-identical T3/T4 med. last week. It’s a capsule, not a pill.
Has anyone else switched? Is your new compounded medicine a pill or a capsule?
Janie Bowthorpe
Compounded is what they put in a capsule, yes.
Gina
Russ, You started the Duck feather/hair hormone? Please keep us updated on how you feel. I don’t suppose the pharmacy shared anyone elses results with you?
Russ
Hi Gina,
I’ve been on the compounded T4/T3 for almost 2 weeks and feeling much better than when I was on the new NP Thyroid. Not optimal but doing pretty good. I wake up at 4:00 am and have energy to go all day. And have lost 2.5lbs of the 7lbs that I gained while on NP.
I won’t get labs for several more weeks.
No, the Pharmacy didn’t share results with me.
Thank you for asking.
Michaeline
Russ. What compounding pharmacy do you use? Thank you!
Mary Orsillo
Russ! Hope. You are still feeling better. Think I need compounding meds, as I continue to feel worse on Synthetic T4 and CytomelT3. Do you know the exact name of your current drug and pharmacy…..thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Mary, you need to get optimal on those two meds. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
gina
Hi Russ, It’s been a few months now. How are you making out on the duck feather compound these days?
Loretta
I have been so upset with what is happening with NDT. I got my labs back when I was on the batch and – TSH was 0.63, free T4 is 0.82 and free T3 is 3.5. I just started taking a compounded form so I’m not sure what will occur. Have anyone of you experienced dizziness/vertigo? Could it be that the new batch (bad batch from this summer) I was taking didn’t have the medicine I needed? Could low T4 be the cause? I’m so discouraged.
Rhonda Braun
I read the comment from Loretta about being dizzy. I have my meds compounded T3 30%/T4 100%. My last labs were: (T4 6.4) (T3 Free 4.1) (T3 Reverse 13.5) (THS 5.780). I am feeling dizzy too. I can’t understand why I have this dizzy feeling everyday? Any thoughts?
Janie Bowthorpe
I need ranges for all but the TSH.
Rhonda Braun
6.4 T4 Reference Range: 4.5-12.0 ug/dL
4.1 T3 free Reference Range: 2.0-4.4 pg/m
13.5 Reverse T3, Serum Reference Range: 9.2-24.1 ng/dL
Janie Bowthorpe
TSH reveals the truth. Very hypo. So since Free T3 is close to optimal, and T4 low, makes me wonder if it’s pooling due to a cortisol problem, thus not getting too your cells. do what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Anddd RT3 going up. You need to treat why: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Rhonda Braun
Just ordered the Cortisol test from MyLab. Should I ask my doctor to increase the T4 or wait for the cortisol results? This link: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverseo-t3 says “page not found”
Janie Bowthorpe
Oops. I corrected it.
Probably won’t hurt to raise the T4.
Rhonda Braun
I am on a Beta Blocker. Last Nov. we think the compounding pharmacy make a mistake! Same dosage as above for over a year and my levels suddenly changed to: T4 7.1 T3 8.6 THS 0.041 (same range)
My blood normal BP went 166/104, so doc put me on Bystolic .5.to bring it down. Obviously, I changed my compounding pharmacy. But doc hasn’t taken me off the BB yet. Maybe that could be the issue?
Janie Bowthorpe
Your frees do appear to be the result of being overdosed.
Melissa
Anyone with no thyroid take just T3?
Tracy
I have been on cytomel only for 2 months now. I am having to heal my adrenals along with juggling finding my optimal . I found an APRN that seems to be open to look at some of the information Janie has brought to light. I had been on naturethroid and was doing great until they changed it. My APRN tried a compounded version of T4 and T3. I had severe heart palpitations and was severely hypo. 3 days after being on T3 only the heart palps stopped. My T3 free was 6.0. She lowered my dosage and now it’s at 4. My reverse T3 was never returned to me by DLO labs either blood draw. She’s looking into it. I’m starting to gradually feel a little better. I’m on supplements and adaptogens I feel are helping. It’s not a quick fix but I at least have hope now.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your high free T3 could very well be associated with that adrenal problem. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
Have you done the 24-hour adrenal saliva test so you’ll know exactly what’s wrong? It’s important to know in order to treat it correctly. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol. There’s even a link on the former page to order a saliva test. Adaptogens and supplements won’t be enough if you have several low cortisol in a row
If cortisol is low, you’ll need to be on cortisol supplementation. Why? Because you can’t heal your adrenals until you get out of your hypothyroid state. And T3 doesn’t get to the cells well without the right amount of cortisol to carry it to your cells.
There’s more important details on all this in chapter 6 of the updated revision stop the thyroid madness book. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/updated-revision-sttm-book
Janet
Something that baffles me about all this is that Acella learned nothing from RLC’s disaster. They had just tooled up to meet a greater demand and probably invested a lot of money to do so. Then people bailed when NatureThroid quit working and many switched to NP Thyroid. So Acella did the same thing…increased manufacturing capability to meet the demand and made a big error in changing the product supplier without utilizing patients for feedback before making the switch. I’m sure their year-end reports are going to reflect the loss as well.
Katie Olson
Is NDT relatively inexpensive with insurance? What about compounded? I am newly diagnosed and haven’t decided what I want to ask my naturopath for as far as brands. So, I’m curious – in an ideal world, what would most choose? Compounded? If so how much more $$ is it than NDT?
Janie Bowthorpe
Katie, all American made NDTS are not what they used to be. Instead your better alternatives are as following:
1. Synthetic T4 with synthetic T3 and getting optimal
2. T3-only, multi-dosed and getting optimal
3. Compounded NDT or compounded T4/T3 and getting optimal.
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Katie Olson
In no particular order, or in that order? I’m reading some horror stories and prefer to avoid multiple changes in scripts if I can
Ana
Katie, I’ve been taking Armour since September and have been doing well on it. I wasn’t expecting it to be this good. It might be worth considering. My doctor said that quite a few of her patients have switched to Armour since last summer and most have had positive experiences on it. I’m going in for labs next week and will post my results and a more thorough evaluation then.
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour is the only one that there is slight hope about. That doesn’t change that it is not the good NDT it used to be. All those who used to be on it before it changed have seen that. And also remember that people can “feel good” for awhile before they go south. It’s important with the changed armour that you attempt to get optimal… Or even see if you can get optimal without problems. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Ana
Thanks, Janie! I’ll keep all of that in mind. I took Armour from 2004-2015, and the current version is definitely inferior to the versions I took in that time period. It’s hard to know for certain, but I do think the Armour I’m taking now is better than the 2015 one. My biggest frustration with Armour now is that I haven’t been able to get it to work sublingually. The labs next week should shed some more light on it, and I’ll share them when I get the results. Armour is still in the trial phase for me.
Yvette
I have been taking Armour for years and have also noticed a recent change. The smell is horrid, like cat pee as others have noted. I’m also unable to cut the pills in half like I used to, they disintegrate in my pull cutter. I have also noticed that hypo symptoms have returned. There’s something wrong with the medicine. I’m going to ask my doc if I can switch to a compounded sustained release formula of synthetic T4 and T3. Compounded is expensive though, about $95 a month and insurance won’t cover it.
Ana
Yvette, are you talking about Armour or NP Thyroid? The Armour tablets I got in September and 2 days ago are nearly odorless. They don’t have the usual porcine smell, and I have guessed that it might be due to what appears to be a slight coating. There’s no chemical or cat pee smell. The ones I have are also somewhat hard to break/cut in half and do not disintegrate. When did you get the batch you described? I’ve been doing well on the Armour and am apprehensive about going through another NDT failure.
Katie
If just using T3 is an option, what difference does it make compared to T3 +T4? If T3 and T4 is better, what proportion of each?
Elizabeth Montgomery
I picked up my new NP thyroid 90 mg late yesterday. It did not stink but was thicker and some brown specks. Took it at 5:25 a.m an usually I put it under my tongue. Horrible taste. So chewed it. Bad choice.then downed it with water. I began to feel nausea and sweating face and body,heart raced now 5:45 a.m. then burning in my mouth and throat and down. Still horrible taste in mouth. At 6 a.m. horrible taste almost gone.6:15 a strange feeling in my mouth and phlegm. 6:30 a.m. feeling weak all over my body and so sleepy. Drank more water. At 6:55 had green tea with sea salt to try get rid of horrible taste..7:15 a.m. symptoms gone. Lot number m331G19-2 expiration date 12/2020 not taking again.
Barbara
I just received a supply of Nature-Throid (65 mg = 1 grain) and it says ingredients include 17 mg calcium. Why would they put that in? Doesn’t calcium need to be avoided? Made in USA, manufactured in Phoenix, AZ by RLC. Exp. 7/22.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes we do avoid calcium as it binds some of the thyroid hormones. Just no sure about that amount. We do know that naturethroid doesn’t work anymore. People are still having problems trying to be optimal on it.
Janet
When I was researching ingredients in the available synthetic T3 generics, all of them had calcium sulfate as the main filler. That’s probably why compounded works better for most people.
Sondra koehn
What at home thyroid lab test do you recommend. Most comprehensive. Thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Ulta is popular. Scroll down on this page until you see the ULTA logo on the left: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork MyMedLab has the best saliva test.
Darlene
Has anyone tried switching to Nutri-med bovine glandular? If so, how much would one need to take to equal 60mg of NDT?
Janie Bowthorpe
We really don’t know what the equivalency is, sadly. That’s why you’ll need to do labs to tweak.
Diane Thomas
Hi all. I have been on NP Thyroid since January 2015 and doing just fine until earlier this year. I am not sure when exactly but earlier this year I started experiencing a return of hypo symptoms, e.g. unexplained weight gain, lack of energy, chilliness even when in a warm room. I was only on 90 mg so I thought I was under medicated and that this was the infamous backfire. My labs at the end of September supported this interpretation.
I convinced my doctor to raise my dose to 120 mg less than 6 weeks ago (finally!), but my symptoms got worse and my blood pressure went up from 120/73 on August 29th (when I got the new prescription), to a terrifying 149/83. This rise in blood pressure coincided exactly with this new prescription. My labs which were drawn at the end of Sept (after 4 weeks on the new refill) and revealed low t4 and t3, and high rt3. In addition, my iron labs show low iron and %sat, high ferritin and optimal tibc. My cortisol is completely normal. The inflammation this all points to has probably been around for awhile, given that I have felt hypo for some time. But the new prescription of NP Thyroid seems to have aggravated the situation.
After about a week of taking the new dose I felt so terrible that I dropped back to 90 mg, but it didn’t help. I tried splitting the 90 mg dose between morning and afternoon. Didn’t help. I dropped back to 60, and of course, that didn’t help. I finally stopped taking the new refill altogether and returned to the remainder of a prescription filled in June. I started feeling better immediately. At last measure, my blood pressure was down to 130/75. The connection to the new refill of NP Thyroid is not tough to make.
Now I need to decide on a substitute for NP Thyroid. So I am trying Thyrogold to see if it will work. The company said that the 150 mg size of Thyrogold has 50 mcg of T4 and 12.5 mcg of T3. So I am taking a capsule of Thyrogold in the morning and a 30 mg pill of my older refill of Np Thyroid in the afternoon, until they are gone. By that time I hope to have convinced my doc to prescribe a synthetic combination that includes T3. I am over 60 so I am expecting to have to do some persuading, in spite of the fact that I have been taking T3 for 5 years.
Meantime I have started working on the inflammation by taking a closer look at my diet to make sure I am still as gluten dairy and soy free as possible, doing a course of Humaworm to eliminate stealthy pathogens and parasites, and taking appropriate anti-inflammatory supplements. After that, I will start working on improving my iron levels, and then maybe I can get optimal on whichever medication I take for my thyroid.
Nicole
You should address your iron immediately. It was super important to me and my ndt dosing. Once my sever anemia was treated and iron levers were more normal al lot of things fell into place easier.
Just my experience 🥰ðŸ™
Bonnie
Holy crap! Doctor put me on t3 only. I’m dosing 3 times a day. Iron and cortisol are fine. I’ve been going up from 5-5-5mcgs and am currently up to 10-10-10mcg’s. I felt pretty good, energy and no weight gain. But then a week ago, all my symptoms came back!! Worst one being debilitating vertigo. Joint pain, not sleeping, anxiety, hair that tangles up, heart burn and so much more. I’m seriously at the end of my rope.
Janie Bowthorpe
That’s because it wasn’t an optimal dose for you. With T3 only, we have to raise every week and get optimal. Otherwise, you’re hypo comes back with a vengeance. Read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Angela Frye
Here’s the petition to Acella. Please sign, share and otherwise circulate. We have had, to date, about 330 signatures on the RLC Petition. Obviously we have to do better if we want manufacturers to be responsive. https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/np-thyroid-by-acella
Angela Frye
I’ve filled out my MedWatch FDA form which I hope everybody that has had a problem has taken the time and trouble to do. I’ll also put another petition up at MoveOn.org to Acella, which I also hope that everybody will take time to sign. I also had the idea of STTM a/o Shomon doing a webinar of sorts and asking the requisite representatives from each manufacturer to show up and answer questions and concerns from patients. I’ll certainly be present and accounted for.
Sheri
I am in such a bind here and I don’t know what to do. I was on NatureThroid and Cytomel for a long time before all the changes and did well, When the new NT came out I notice a difference so I stockpiled the old NT from anywhere I could find and had enough to carry me through almost until WP was released. I started on that in December 2018. I seemed to do ok until around March of 2018. I find that WP causes awful muscle spasms, naturally those bring on feeling of panic because I’m so tense. I’m not sure if raising is going to help. I could never take NP or Armour due to fillers. We tried to switch to t4/43 synthetics but I seem to be allergic to Levothyroxine. We went through them all. I felt better as far as spasms but my throat swelled up and caused itching. We recently tried a compounded ndt that I was allergic to. I don’t understand. It was compounded with vitamin c in a veggie cap. Could you be allergic to the veggie cap? I’m not allergic to vitamin c. I hate to say but I wonder if they used synthetics. In any case, I’m horrified at at my wits end. I can take Cytomel but it’s a very rough feeling and I don’t like it. I can’t deal with this long term. I’m scared and tired and frustrated And don’t know what to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated. At this point I need to find something I can safely take before I even get back into being optimal. My dr is stumped as well. Has anyone been through this?
Janie Bowthorpe
Sheryl, a few things to help: no one is allergic directly to T4. But they may be to the fillers used to make T4-only med if that’s what you mean? If so, that has to be frustrating for you.
As far as Cytomel being a “rough feeling”…can you explain what you mean? Cytomel, which is T3, changes lives. But it’s important to get optimal on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And you multi-dose it, such as 8 am, noon, and 3-4 pm.
Also, you have to have good levels of cortisol with the T3. Cortisol helps T3 get to the cells.
Sheri
Actually I found one, only one instance online of allergy to t4. Last one I tried was Tirosint. Same exact reaction of all the others. I don’t know what to say or do. With the Cytomel, it’s like a roller coaster. I feel ok, then tired and anxious and I feel like I got hit by a truck in the am. I actually dosed on the same schedule you just mentioned. It’s like Tylenol for a headache. It works, wears off and then you need to take more. It’s a lousy feeling. Are there any reputable compounding pharmacies for NDT out there?
Janie Bowthorpe
Sheri, our thyroids make T4 when healthy, so highly doubt you would be allergic. Instead, it can be the fillers, or it’s causing your rt3 to go up. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Sheri
Nope. Definitely allergic..It’s been confirmed. Lucky me.
Gabrielle Jones
I started nature throid in July 2019,and within 1 month had gained 16 pounds! My endo added 5mcg of T3,which caused the weight gain to slow down,but I lost nothing. Desperate,I went back to thyrovanz which had worked extremely well for me. I have lost some of the weight. My doctor previously insisted that I stop taking it because tsh was 0.0016 and t4 high.
Angela Frye
Reposting my reply to a comment to a STTM Facebook post. See below..
I did occasionally, if I remember correctly, have palps (as did another person responding to your “new WP” blog) on NP…Did not have on the good N-T..So at that point, don’t think it was adrenals. However, with the roller coaster ride that dessicated has been since the Naturethroid debacle, and an inordinate amount of personal stress, adrenals may well be a factor now.
Unlike most of the people reporting feeling hyPO..I’ve felt hyPER.. First order of business is a cardio workup. One thing that I do want to bring to attention, though, is the FDA drugmaker alert on Sichuan Friendly API. Westminster voluntarily recalled their product, but according to the FDA alert, “However, FDA confirmed Sichuan Friendly’s thyroid API remains in the U.S. supply chain. This API and the drug products made from it, present a safety risk to patients. Sichuan Friendly API may be repackaged and/or relabeled before it is further distributed, and not all of the repackaged/relabeled API identifies Sichuan Friendly as the original API manufacturer. Therefore, manufacturers and compounders who make levothyroxine and liothyronine drug products should contact their API supplier to verify the actual manufacturer of the thyroid API they received before using it. Sichuan Friendly’s products may be labeled as “Thyroid Powder” or “Thyroid Powder USP.”
Here’s the link to the entire alert…https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-alerts-drug-makers-recall-porcine-thyroid-api-sichuan-friendly-pharmaceutical-co-limited-china
If I read the alert correctly…the FDA alerted and advised manufacturers but did not force their hand on a recall, which Westminster voluntarily did. So..we don’t know where or in what meds this particular API ended up. Or what the response of the individual manufacturers was, IF they utilized API from this source, again with the exception of Westminster, who appeared to care enough about their patients to issue a recall. And, interestingly enough have not, at least as far as I know, put product back out on the market leading me to wonder whether there is even another API source.
Trying to open the actual Import Alert, also link to follow, but the link is not responsiv Important note, only actually published 10/17, over a year after the initial alert to manufacturers. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_189.html
Jenny Graham
Very interesting link to FDA article- maybe the issues we have encountered are because of an unstable and unregulated porcine powder- the FDA does not regulate NDT and the companies manufacturing them can do what they want without oversight.
It does seem like there has been a concerted effort to discredit NDT for years preceding this crises and I’m in the Delaware/Pennsylvania area and you can’t see a Naturapath or holistic doctor on insurance here- I was able to find 1-3 doctors in New England area that were MDs -the trend is big pharma and an extremely regulated western approach- I’m noticing that doctors here with a more holistic approach have been shut down or moved to bigger gp practices- it’s too bad – because I do think the extremely medicalized approach to medicine makes people sicker.
Rebekah
My pharmacist told me that the manufacturer of Armour purchased the wholesaler of the porcine thyroid that RLC used and quadrupled the price so as to take down RLC as a competitor. As a result, RLC was forced to find a new supplier. I have not verified any of that information, that’s just what my pharmacist told me.
Amy
I cannot believe this is “medicine” in 2019 USA and elsewhere. I was diagnosed hypo a few years back and the ordeal of getting properly diagnosed and medicated has been one hurdle after another. I was in excellent health and went from extremely fit to a very very sick person. They ignored my probable hypo and assumed I had cancer! Why? Because I was “too thin” to be hypo so they dismissed the labs starting them in the face. If not for you/STTM and a naturopath I can’t even imagine how sick I would be today. I am so disgusted with Endo’s I will never go to one again. I have a connection to an area in Europe but sadly they seem very “old fashioned” re thyroid treatment. Over there in my area they view the clearly hypo specific symptoms as just “life” for a middle aged woman. Bull, when I am properly medicated I am out running again and back to my former active lifestyle and all of these odd symptoms resolve. I have gone to extremes to try and find a reliable source of meds not to mention a doctor.
I wish I could do something but I can’t even get the manufacturers to respond. Understandable as I am just a person but STTM represents so many ….will they give you Janie/STTM a forum? The physicians that have contributed to your books? Is there a celebrity who is hypo and up for championing a cause?
It seems that pressure and visibility is the only way to get some change. Squeaky wheel time. Fact is when NDT is optimal I feel NORMAL again. I don’t think that is too much to ask for. I’m frustrated and out of options but managing as I stockpiled meds but I will run out eventually and I am sick of stressing out every time I need to get new meds. This issue needs exposure and a “face”.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Janie Bowthorpe
I did talk extensively to Acella…to deaf ears.
Sabrina Schön
Hallo Amy,
may be a local forum could help you to find a good Doctor/Endo here in Europe, they exist, don’t give up.
Joe Benson
Hillary Clinton is said to be on NDT. Maybe she’d be down to fix this situation?
Rachel
Has anyone any current experience with Erfa? I went from Armour to Erfa in 2009 and was happy with it but switched to NP Thyroid before the 2014 reformulation.
Thought I would try it as running out of options. My experience so far is reasonable but I am more tired than usual and find myself out of breath more easily which is new for me. Maybe I will up my dosage to from 120 to 150 to see if it removes this hypothyroid symptom.
Has anyone any experience with current Erfa?
Janie Bowthorpe
There will always be someone who says they are doing fine on it, but the fact is that it changed and is not the consistently excellent product it used to be, nor has Erfa seemed to care. So the question is has anyone been able to get their frees optimal on it? It will backfire, if not.
Tina
My thyroid was removed in 2006. I live in Sweden where NDT is not approved so I had to take synthetic T4. I managed to get a license for Erfa Thyroid in 2013 and it changed my life. I am still doing well. Work full time and I do karate three times a week. My problem is that they are out of stock more often than not and I can’t just switch to another brand without a new license.
Nadia
I’m new to this site. I’ve been diagnosed with hypothyroidism since my early twenties and I’m 41 now. My endocrinologist put me on Erfa Thyroid (I’m in Canada) since 2015. My menstrual cycle has returned after being missing for 9 years and irregular for many years before Erfa) and my body much warmer. However I have been having heart palpitation since 2017 and feel very tired despite having a good blood work (numbers). The only thing was low iron and that has been treated too but I still feel tired. My endocrinologist says it is the adrenaline and he prescribed adrenaline suppressors (Modofinil?, sorry can’t see his correct spelling), I never purchase it because I’m afraid of the side-effect of Modofinil which is depression. Reading many comments about Erfa here makes me worry. I don’t know what else to do. I have been taking synthetics for years both T3 and T4 they work well for all my symptoms but my menstrual cycle never normalize with synthetics despite of monitoring it very carefully and diligently. If I stop Erfa and switch to synthetics then my menstrual cycle will be gone causing physical symptoms too. My endocrinologist told me because we are replacing what ought to be produced naturally by our thyroid it will never be the same like when our organ (thyroid) produces it. He then mention that he is working on a research on thyroid transplant within the next 2 years. Any advise for me anybody? I’d be more than happy to hear from you.
Lori
I don’t have any experience with the medications you are on but since it seems that many NDT brands are no longer high quality it may be time to consider holistic options for boosting your own thyroid system. One of the things I use in my routine is organic raw unrefined coconut oil in BPA free containers, one teaspoon at least three times per day. It can’t replace thyroid medication but I find it helpful in my holistic routine.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not about being prescribed an adrenaline suppressor. Jeez Endo’s can be clueless. Not is it about a transplant. Double jeez. It’s about being optimal (if you can on the changed Erfa) or switching back to both T4 and T3 and being optimal with both of them. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Judy
I know this is of little comfort to all the patients taking NP Thyroid…my husband being one of them, but…I emailed Acella pharma. last week and got a call the next day from “Steve” at Acella. He asked many questions over the period of 10 minutes. He was typing the whole time …hopefully my answers to his questions. He asked me if I had any questions and of course I asked if they had any idea as to what’s going on. He said that they are looking at the change in supplier of the raw porcine. I know this is what you have heard also…my reason for writing is…everyone on NP with the return of symptoms, needs to email Acella with their contact info. so Steve can also contact them. Maybe with a boat load of complaints, they will get serious about this problem!
Janie Bowthorpe
Anddddd they need to change the cat piss coating on the pills, they need to bring back the sweet taste, they need to bring it back to being softer…..all the many changes they don’t seem to want to talk about…
Dedee
Here’s the contact info I found on the Acella Pharmaceuticals website: https://www.acellapharma.com/contact/
1-800-541-4802
1880 McFarland Parkway Suite 110-B, Alpharetta, GA 30005
Phone: 678.325.5189 Fax: 678.746.0717 Customer Care: 1.800.541.4802
Judy, might you have the email for “Steve” at Acella?
The company also posts a way to report problems to the FDA – I’m cynical about the FDA, but for what it’s worth:
To report suspected adverse reactions, contact the FDA at (800) FDA-1088 or http://www.fda.gov/medwatch
Kim Beck
Email for David Margulis at Acella. He sent me a better smelling bottle of NP after I sent him the cat pee pills I had gotten at Walgreens.
DMargulis@acellapharma.com
Tammy
I sent Acella an email and I did get a response saying I’d be contacted, however that never happened
Gem
Janie,
So are you saying that good Naturethroid would have been dispensed before 2018? I have some from Jan. and August 2018, but don’t know how effective they are now. Is it safe to take any newly dispensed Naturethroid now? Are there any distinguishing characteristics (smell, color, etc. ) to look for to alert me not to use them?
Janie Bowthorpe
It was around summer of 2018 that Naturethroid came back and causing a huge return of hypo in people.
Janie
Gem
Janie,
I am understanding that all the brands are affected. If so, then are there lot #’s for the Naturethroid? My pharmacy has some on the shelf but we don’t know whether it is good. On the bottles it does say “made in the usa.” Is there any way to tell if it is good?
On the compounding issue, which pharmacies are providing this and where is their powder coming from?
Janie Bowthorpe
We didn’t collect lot numbers when they came back bad. But if you got yours before 2018, it may be the former good version of naturethroid.
Sabrina Schön
Does anyone know if American Labs Inc. are still producing desiccated porcine thyroid glands?
Janie Bowthorpe
Supposedly, no.
Yesii
So my dr prescribed compounded synthetic t3/t4 . I am getting it mailed from a compounding pharmacy in Florida to my state, Arizona. Doctor wants me to have labs again in 4 weeks. I cant take this inconsistency in the new NP, some days all I want to do is sleep and some days I’m having palpitations. Another reason, is who knows what they are putting in these tablets now that they are getting their source from Europe.
Dedee
Yesii, I’m sorry you are having these problems. I am just trying to figure mine out. It sounds like you have a good endocrinologist in AZ somewhere – so I’m wondering if you could please share his/her name? I’m having quite a challenge with finding a doctor who is open to working with patients rather than dictating his/her knowledge “at” a patient. Thank you.
Yesi
Hi,
I fired my local endocrinologists, I found a Nurse Practioner who specializes in hormones (she does hormone pellets) but also sees patients for medical care, (through insurance.) This is my second time seeing her but she has been attentive so far and has worked with me. I’m not sure if I can name her practice, if Janie says it’s ok I will. Just so you know its not in the Phoenix area, I’m in a smaller town about 2.5 to 3 hours from Phoenix or Tucson.
Janie Bowthorpe
You can! 🙂
Leann
Thyroid cancer had me on Lev for 5 years of sloth-life. I just got STTM in the mail today. I was so excited as I started writing notes for my doctor only to find no available prescription desiccated thyroid available worthy. Janie, what are you hearing is the best in usa after these last few weeks of disappointment?
Janie Bowthorpe
The bottom line is that none of them are the consistently good products they used to be. Yes, some patients will state “I feel good” on this one or that one. But they are never optimal (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal) which is the only way to maintain the feel goods, and some state they can’t even get there without problems. They are just not the same.
The ONLY one we wonder if it could still work, even though it’s far inferior to the great NDT it used to be, is Armour. We’re waiting for someone to reveal their frees on it.
Dedee
Thanks!
Yesi
Aura Grace Medical Group
Tammy Slade Florez N.P.
Yuma,Az
928 318 6910
Dedee
Thank you, Yesi.
Wow, yes, Yuma would be a very long drive for me. I hope your situation gets better and I hope that this information will help someone in the Yuma, Arizona area. I have mapped the distance and it would take me over 3 hours to get to the edge of town.Darn.:(
Yesi
Yes, living in Yuma was why I thought I couldn’t find someone, but apparently even people in Phoenix or Tucson are having a hard time finding a good provider. 🙁
Sue Prytherch
Sorry.. this is a continuation from the above post…. And since apparently, the FDA doesn’t require for them to disclose where they get their raw materials, this is probably what is happening, and they can tell us that their “formula” has not changed. With the recent news of a deal made with China by President Trump’s administration, one of the news organizations mentioned hogs and what is going on with hogs in China. Apparently there has been swine flu there and great numbers of their hogs have been wiped out. Leaving the Chinese to import their pork from the United States recently, and from other countries as well. Possibly, hogs with swine flu have had their thyroids removed, and the Chinese have continued to sell this powder to our drug companies. I hope I do not sound like a crazy person, but my mom’s cat died from the pet food debacle of the Chinese pet food a few years back, so I am extremely skeptical of Chinese products, and with good reason. Even if swine flu in China is not a factor, I think we can all agree, that the quality control of items from China is questionable. So, what can we do, as thyroid patients.
I am wondering if we can somehow contact a representative with the American Hog Farmers (I am not sure what this association might be called). I do not know how this would unfold, but certainly, their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China. Perhaps the American Hog farmers will be on our side and will yield a bigger voice somehow. I am sure we are perhaps just at the beginning of trying to figure this out, but perhaps that is a direction we can try.
One last thought. Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway? It should not be anymore of a “drug” than caffeine, or any number of supplements you find in your local health food store. Perhaps we can partner with some American company who makes supplements and suggest to them that they start making a desiccated thyroid supplement only from American pig thyroid powder (and advertise it as such). I know that would be a huge project to start, but it is food for thought. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Maybe instead of trying to communicate with Drug companies who do whatever they want to, we could go to the source of American pig thyroid Powder and work at a new solution. Thanks for reading this. I welcome your thoughts.
Gina
Here’s the thing… If you dig a little you will find that all the desiccated thyroid coming out of China is from mixed animals, not specifically just porcine… I’m not sure, but maybe that is the problem with how it has been affecting so many people…anyway, until we test it ourselves we will never get a truthful answer. Is anyone ready to organize and chip in?
Alex
Sue Prytherch,
As for you question: Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway?“
please read Janie‘s blog https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101/ and try to discovery the story of NDTs on the Internet.
As for what you say: …their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China“ , please read the statement from Acella: https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR2hp_ZnWxVsR0YgsgxRSsGxoCvvnLItvddkgA0CHp9cHg-vCUX8DTpeOUo
Acella says: The only difference is that the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient (API) is now sourced from an FDA-inspected facility in Europe instead of our former supplier in the U.S.“
Acella doesn’t buy its API from China!
Gina
Alex, I am wondering how the FDA inspects a facility that is outside their US jurisdiction in Europe? Again, If they are not getting their powder from China they should not have any problem telling us the source because until they do, we have to assume they are getting it from the only known manufacturers like everyone else is… It could also be that Acella DOES buy their thyroid powder from Europe BUT that does not mean that it was produced in Europe. Europe could have, and most likely DID, buy it from China! Just like RLC Labs, who was telling everyone they buy their powder from the US not adding that the US was importing it from China!
Sue Prytherch
Hi, Let me throw some things out that I have been thinking of. It seems that most thyroid meds have somehow changed their formula. If you think about the drug industry, it’s all about profit. If they can save money by purchasing their natural desiccated thyroid powder from China, they all have to compete, and I would think it’s all about them saving money. So, the fact that their formula has changed, could very well be that. They may have all changed to a different supplier — from China. To the drug companies, their “formula” has not changed — they are still making their pills from “x” amount of desiccated thyroid powder.
Janie Bowthorpe
If I am continually making boxed cakes for a living, and my steps are always about
1) buying the boxed cake
2) adding 3 eggs, oil, milk, vanilla
3) beating 2 minutes,
then baking at 350 degrees…then I can say I am doing the same thing even still to counter new complaints about my cakes.
But what is not being said can be this:
1) I’m buying a different brand of cake mix, so no, it may be totally different in taste and cause problems
2) The eggs I’m now using come from chickens who are drinking nasty, putrid water
3) The oil I’m now using has a totally different taste
4) The milk I’m now using is always on the edge of rancid because my refrig isn’t cooling like it used to
5) The vanilla I now use is lower quality
6) I’m using a new oven and it’s heating hotter than 350 degrees, even though it says 350 degrees
i.e I may be able to say I’m doing the same 3 steps above thing in making the boxed cake, but I’m leaving all the other details out which are ruining my cake.
Lori
I’m wondering if they could be using bovine thyroid instead since pigs are currently more expensive, or maybe they are adding larger amounts of filler to stretch it out.
Sabrina Schön
Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling the original source (not the reseller) of the desiccated Thyroids?
Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling if their desiccated Thyroids are made only of pigs Thyroid?
Why are Pharmaceuticals not forced by law to do this?
Why is it easier to get the information where the pig comes from, when you are buying the meat?
Gina
Ah hah, and where exactly was it privately sourced from? Did they ever tell you that?
Janie Bowthorpe
Pharmaceuticals are big into not revealing things like that.
Russ
I just called a local Compounding Pharmacy and they told me that they can make bio-identical T3/T4 compound meds that are derived from duck, not porcine. They also use two plant based hypoallergenic fillers.
Is anybody here using ‘Bio-identical’ T3/T4 compounded meds?
If so, what is your experience on getting optimal?
Yesi
Can you please let us know which pharmacy , I’ve never heard of this
Russ
Yesi,
It’s a Pharmacy near me in Orange County, California. Am I allowed to mention the name on this site?
Barbara Whitaker
I’m near Orange County and would love that info as well.
Russ
Barbara, I would like to communicate with you.
How do we exchange Emails privately?
Russ
Barbara,
I’m curious, who is your Doctor?
As for the Pharmacy, call Central Drugs in Fullerton or La Habra.
Gina
Russ, Are you in the USA? Are you going to try the duck thyroid? Will they tell you where they get it from?
Russ
Gina,
Yes, I’m in Southern California.
I’ll call the Pharmacy tomorrow and ask where it it sourced from.
Not sure if they will tell me but I will ask.
Gina
Thanks Russ! I am very excited to learn more about this. I have never heard anything or anyone mention that duck thyroids could help us. I know that pig thyroid is supposedly similar to human thyroid, or the hormones anyway… but I cannot find anything about using duck thyroid for this purpose anywhere online… Anyone else???
Russ
OK, this is strange.
The pharmacist told me that the compounded meds can be made from materials sourced from the duck feathers, not duck thyroids, and even from hair.
She said they are bio identical but technically a synthetic.
When asked where they sourced their materials she could only tell me that it was from an FDA approved supplier and she did not know the country of origin.
I starting to feel like we are all just guinea pigs in some sinister lab experiment……
Yesi
Can you please give the pharmacy name, Interesting concept Id like to know more about for future reference if needed.
gina martin
Russ… 🙁 we already know the answer to that… it is from China and it is useless… possibly even harmful!
Beth
I was on Armour for almost 20 years, I switched to NP because of insurance formulary list changes. NP has been good, but I did note that the current batch smells weird. It also does not match the color and shape of previous pills from NP. Fortunately, I keep a 90 day supply on hand. I am thinking of going to a synthetic when I see my doctor in a few weeks.
American Laboratories used to be the sole supplier in the US for porcine thyroid powder. Per their website, they are no longer offering this product. When NP states that they are now getting their porcine powder from the EU, they fail to tell us which country. My research led me to only find a supplier in Argentina and China. China is a huge concern. Bloomberg news has been running a series of reports on generic drugs and raw materials coming from China and India. In India there are about 600 pharmaceutical companies and only 17 FDA inspectors. Never mind if the drug is effective, but other things like rat droppings,etc, have been found. China is not much better. Most of the fentanyl is coming from China in the US Mail.
Is anyone else concerned about this and other drugs? When you buy a avocado now, grocers are required to tell you where that avocado is sourced. We need to do the same with Pharmaceuticals.
Amy Lynn
Wow Beth, that is scary/interesting about the porcine thyroid powder. I’ve asked Acella in an email exactly which country in Europe it is from and as you can expect, I received no answer. Why the secrecy when we’re putting this into our bodies? I agree!
Sheila Anderson
I feel great on WP Thyroid when I can get it. Trouble is that the RLC website gives availability for Nature Throid which does not work for me but is silent on when WP Thryoid will become available. I keep calling many of the pharmacies listed on their site, but no one seems to know anything. Wondering if you have heard anything. I am using some old WP Thryroid which turned brown and is several years old plus some Nature Throid (about 8 months old) and trying to hold on but I really need to know if WP Thyroid is going to be shipped again or if I need to get some compounded version of this – sooner rather than later. I will be out of my old stuff within a month and beginning to feel desperate. Why won’t RLC just let us know about WP Thyroid’s expected shipping date? It’s not like this is optional!
Criss
Our local compounding pharmacy carries WP now and I’ve switched my son over to it..waiting to see. We used to get it through Walmart, but not anymore.
Jeanne
Any news on NP thyroid? Any statements from Acella? I’ve scoured the internet and come up with absolutely NOTHING!… except here. I’m taking the new whiter pills, feeling like I’m gaining weight, but scale says no. Maybe it’s just bloating me… also fighting constipation…resting heart rate a little lower in the morning…starting on the second week of it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Basically all that is coming from Acella is denial, minimizing, whitewashing, passing the buck, and failure to touch certain topics with a ten foot pole.
Kim
There gonna be sorry they changed because we will continue to look for whatever will make us feel better even if that means going back to synthetic
Sage
I have read lately that Levothyroxine can perpetrate tachycardia…!
Is that true?
Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s possible since Levo is a lousy way to treat hypo. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Gina
I’ve also read that synthetic is linked to breast cancer…
Janie Bowthorpe
Being poorly treated may be…
Yesi
New labs on np thyroid 150 :
TSH: 0.009. reference range .450-4.500
Free t3: 6.0. Reference range 2.0-4.4
Free t4: 1.34. Reference range .82-1.77
Liver Ast: 55 reference range 0-40
Liver Alt: 65 reference range 0-32
I Do not feel Hyper; tired and constipated, fuzzy brain
Janie any thoughts?
Do mildly elevated liver enzymes corelate to thyroid disease?
I’m asking my dr for compounded synthetic T3/T4 , but dont know what I should ask for, I remember doing best on Naturethroid 146.25 before they went down hill.
Angi
Thank you for this article. I fought and fought through 4 different dr’s to be put on NDT. Have been on NP thyroid for several months and have been feeling worse and worse. Labs confirmed it is just not keeping me regulated. ThyCa in 2015. So it was a big fight getting anyone to switch me from synthroid..Now, I will be going back on the synthroid but will be asking for t3 as well. We’ll see! I am glad to see the article and know that it was not all in my head.
Judy
Hi everyone
If there is anyone that is taking thyroid S and has been on it for at least a couple of months, or a year. Can you comment on how it’s working.
If optimal, is it working well. This is for anyone
I would really be grateful for any information that anyone can provide
Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Judy. There have been many people over the years who do quite well on Thyroid-S! 🙂 Just remember this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Judy
Thanks Janie
Louise Leech
Im disgusted. Im 4 yrs out of work after Levo stopped working for me. Has taken me nearly 2+ yrs to find a Dr to prescribe NDT or believe it was my thyroid. Naturethroid then stopped working after 11 mths, switched to NP. Was titrating up when I started feeling horrendously hypo June 19 onwards. Also experiencing full body hives and allergic rashes. Im in limbo now. My bld tests look optimal with high FT3 and midrange FT4 but Im so ill. Hoping to switch to T3 only
Janie Bowthorpe
Can you post your free T3 and free T4 with ranges?
Russ
Judy,
Before you place your order, make sure to ask if Thyroid S is still able to be shipped to the USA.
I can’t remember where I read it but deliveries from Thailand to the USA might not be available anymore.
Judy
Russ, ok. Thank you
Katrina
I just ordered Thyroid S from a site in September and received it in about 2 weeks. It was from Thailand. No problems and I’m feeling better than when I was on the new NP. Just working on getting optimal now.
Janie Bowthorpe
That’s great, Katrina!
Cissy
I’ve been on Thyroid-S for two years. I saw several doctors who refused to treat me for hypothyroidism. My TSH was 3.9 and rising steadily. I took matters into my own hands and ordered Thyroid-S. I recently saw an ENT who said my T4 was a tad low but agreed it was working for me. I simply added 1/2 grain. Originally, I ordered directly from the manufacturer but most recently ordered on Amazon. It took about 3 weeks to arrive.
Janie Bowthorpe
What we all need to be shooting for is being optimal, which on Thyroid-S, would be what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Kathy Kennedy
Thanks for all your comments. I’m trying to figure out what to do now. Until a few weeks ago I was on 3 grains of Armour. Blood tests showed Free T3 was below range and Free T4 was at the bottom of range. I knew I needed to take afternoon naps again. Doc switched me to 195mg of Naturethroid (Wp was t available) and I am now fully symptomatic. I’ve now added back in 45mg of Armour in addition to the Naturethroid and am sleeping less (12 hours a day instead of 18 hours a day). Doc says talk to the pharmacy, who knows nothing.
Maria
As per the many posts about bad reactions to the new ndt sourcing I have the same severe and horrible reactions to the new ndt now available. I was fine with the older wp-thyroid. Since it became unavailable I took the naturethroid and became very ill with multiple reactions. I then found a pharmacy in Pennsylvania “village compounding pharmacy“ that had almost pure ndt with only 1 natural filler. And again a bad reaction. I believe it is not the fillers or additives in the various ndt products it’s the PCCA source that is now faulty. Has anyone researched a new sourcing that is clean? Is there a population in the world that is using ndt from a good source and not getting sick from it?? I am desperate now. As well as many other bad effects i have severe head and stomache pain from these new ndt stocks.
Gabrielle Jones
I use thyrovanz which is from bovines in New Zealand which has never had mad cow disease. I did great on it,as far as feeling good and keeping my weight at the right place. My doctor said the tsh was way too low 0.0016 and t4 out of range. I tried naturethroid and gained 16 pounds in a month. I went back to thyrovanz and am losing weight. My husband takes it also,and his labs are within range.
Jenny
I have lab work coming up. I take both Naturethroid and np thyroid (which does stink). I currently split my thyroid dose taking it in the morning and at night. Previously, I thought you recommended to move the nighttime dose to the afternoon, but now I see it is recommended to skip the nighttime dose? Sorry, I am confused and want to make sure I test accurately. Thanks so much!
Janie Bowthorpe
For a second dose like that, we would move the nighttime dose to mid-afternoon or so.
Marie
Janie-
When we added extra T3 to my NP last spring, it helped some, but my FT4 was below midpoint. My doctor just wanted to add more T3 since I still had symptoms, but I was worried about the low FT4. The only option she gave me to get both 3 & 4 was to bump my NP by 1/4 grain. 🙁 No improvement, obviously. Is there a danger in not having enough T4, if only supplementing T3? I figure T4 must have *some* purpose, if we need to keep our FT4 at a certain level. Does the body need T4 for anything other than conversion to T3?
Janie Bowthorpe
No, for years, patients have done just fine if they chose the T3-only route and got optimal. It’s not harmful that it also means the free T4 is quite low. You just have to multi-dose approximately every 4 hours for 3 doses. Some might take a teeny amount at bedtime, too. Optimal for years has put the free T3 at the top when on T3-only, very occasionally slightly over.
Marie
Thanks, Janie — I see my doctor in 2 weeks (after my labs come back), and I will ask her about trying T3 only. Unfortunately, I just found out that she is retiring, so that means I will have to find a new doctor and start this all over again. Ugh!
Maree
I’m in Australia. Our NDT is not in a tablet form, it is compounded at a local pharmacy and comes in capsules.
I had not read about the medications changing until today and it explains a lot about why I’ve been feeling crap lately and went to my GP last week.
I pay $110AUD for 100 capsules of 2.5 Grains.
Is the compound medicines compromised too?
Janie Bowthorpe
Haven’t yet heard of any problems with your Australian compounded. You could feel bad because you are underdosed. We all have to be optimal to maintain the feel goods. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Yesi
Anyone here using compounded synthetic T3/T4 with good results, if so where are you getting it from and cost?
Betty
What do you all plan on doing now that NP has changed? I am not sure what to go on. I still have a couple of weeks of my old np and than nothing. I was thinking about nature throid. Is anyone doing well on it? I know it has changed, but armour is too much for me right now. Any advice?
Janie Bowthorpe
No, Naturethroid is the worst on to get on when you see how badly people went hypothyroid after it came out.
Below are alternatives and remember to get optimal with your frees. It’s not about just being anywhere on them.
1) Adding synthetic T4 to synthetic T3
2) T3-only, multi-dosed
3) Natural Thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al
4) Compounded thyroid
5) Thai version of NDT
Betty
Thanks. I was on nature throid before they changed it and was great. After the new batch I went more hypo and changed to NP and was great. I am getting tired of changing It is hard for me just to get my Doctor to give me these type of drugs, they want me on synthroid, even though I have problems with it too. Sometimes just want to give up all together on thyroid drugs.
Ann
I am curious if others have found success with Amour as of late…..I know its expensive and it sounds like you may need to take more but does it have any known problems with it? (As in manufacturing, etc.)
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s a hard call. We see some who as they raised Armour to try and get optimal, they had problems. Other say they are fine, but we honestly can’t tell if they are optimal. We have to be optimal to not lose the “fine”. Right now, we’re just not sure since it went downhill.
Betty
I don’t think I will ever go on armour again. I had very bad panic attacks from it all the years I was on it and did not know it was causing it til I went off and went on Naturethroid. The panic attacks slowly went away and I never had them on Np either. I lost so much of my life due to those panic attacks for almost 25 years while on armour.
Janie Bowthorpe
How strange because pre-2009, it was an excellent NDT.
Betty
I started amour in 1983 and about two years afterward developed panic attacks and was housebound for years. I learned to cope with them, but they still ruled my life. A few years ago I was changed to nature throid,right before they changed it and the panic attacks and anxiety attack went away. I still cannot explain, it was the only thing that changed in my life. I do not take any other drugs. I went on NP last year and no panic attacks.
Maggie1brown@hotmail.com
I too Had anxiety the more Armor I took. I can’t say that I was optimal, but I had to quit taking the Armour as the adrenalin rush feeling was awful. I’ve been off all thyroid meds now for over a year, my tsh
has climbed to 5.22 but am afraid to try anything else. Seeing an OA in Dec who might have some insight.
Shelley Ross
My current prescription for 210mcg for 100 pills: $248
Hopkinton Drug Compounding Department
Angie B
Confused!
I was diagnosed hypothyroid in 2006. Started out with the usual generic Synthroid. Did my research when I felt like death and actually got the doc to prescribe Armour. Did awesome on that and stayed on it for a little while after the reformulation. Switched to Naturethroid and once again did awesome until the reformulation and my hair started falling out so went on NP and didn’t feel all that much better so tried compounded. That was a big no so I stuck it out with the NP. All the time I’ve been on NDT it has smelled. Even the pharmacy tech asked how I could stand it. Never thought much of it. I picked up a new script of NP today and there is absolutely no smell. Maybe faint if you take a big whiff. Asked my hubby to smell the difference and he’s saying my old stuff smells like ammonia or cat urine. Funny thing is it has smelled like this for a long time. I even have an old bottle in the freezer that smells the same. So now what do I do? This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. Ughhhhhhh
Betty
Mine was the same way and new one had little smell. I tried it and I stared to itch. Can’t take it and stopped. Now will have to go on something else.
matt
“This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. ” – which is the opposite of others reviews here; (speckled and stinky).
Proof there are obvious inconsistencies in NP.
Janie Bowthorpe
Matt, I’d like to chat with you and Karen in a group email about your good labs on NP. But the email doesn’t work that you are using here. Can you contact me via this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/contact and give me an email that I can include with Karen’s for a group chat?
Betty
Mine are speckled, but no smell.
Janie Bowthorpe
Same as my husband’s NP pills–no smell, tiny specks. And he’s been going downhill on them for 6-8 weeks. We just didn’t know why until it clicked last week that even these NP’s have something wrong.
Angie B
Great! Looks like I may have to go back to compounded after my old NP is gone. I’ve had the urge to go off thyroid meds completely to see how I do. I don’t foresee it getting any better in the future. The FDA and Big Pharma have us where they want us!!!
Jamie
I’ve suffered most of my life with a thyroid issue. Only been treated for past 13 years. Started on brand name Synthroid only to feel like death daily. Switched to NDT about 3 years ago. Felt a little more human but when my meds increase so does my adrenaline and heart palps. Saying I’m disappointed is an understatement. Why can’t they stop messing with EVERYTHING under the sun, moon and stars. They’ve poisoned ALL of our food and now our meds. We’re DOOMED! Come quickly Jesus!
Ko
Janie Bowthorpe
Jamie, when increasing any T3-containing medication causes what you described, that’s because it’s usually revealing that you have a cortisol problem. And that can be treated. See this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Matt
oops, edited and ended up re-posting….
Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actually FT4 was a little higher.
***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
Maybe the new batches have inconsistencies among them?
It was re-bottled, so no lot # ect.
I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.
Matt
Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actaully FT4 was a little higher.
***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
Maybe the new batches have inconsistancies among them?
It was e-bottled, so no lot # ect.
I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.
Karen H
I had the same experience, Matt. My labs have stayed roughly the same, with Free T4 a little over mid-range and Free T3 at the high end of the range. TSH barely detectable. I do not take mine sublingually.
Betty
Is anyone itching on the new NP? After taking mine I started to itch. I stopped taking it and after a day the itching went away. Took it this morning and the itching is back.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, some have mentioned itching as well as a variety of strange symptoms they never had on the previous unchanged NP. It’s gone downhill in the worst way.
Betty
I called Acella and told them what happen. They ask me a few questions and than the batch number. I gave them that and they also want me to send them a couple of the pills back to them at their expense. Someone else is suppose to call me and ask me more questions. I have called the Doctor and requested to be put back on Nature throid. The only problem I had with it was that my tests would go up and down. If that happens again I can deal with it. If that becomes problem I will go back on armour. I will just have to find the money to buy it. So sad. I was doing so good on NP.
Karen H.
At least Naturethroid is still sourced and manufactured in the US and Canada.
LINDA
I posted this in another thyroid group after reading the post.
Yep, she outlines the path, I had to take “to a T”. Armour, Erfa, and the other brands, in the very same order I moved from one to the next. Only to have each brand begin to slowly stop working for me, and I realize the same happened to many others, so many others.
NDT’s may well always be around, but good grief, are they worth the effort of trying to get and then have to keep managing on a week to week basis? This is no way to try to live a productive life!
She also describes what happened to me with the Thyrovanz “There are occasional incidences, with labs to prove it, of the free’s going quite high on doses of Thyrovanz that aren’t high doses. So WATCH your frees, just in case.” I had to stop the Thyrovanz, I think I felt the worse I ever felt on that. (Other than when I was not on any medication, with a TSH just under 100)
I just spent over 600.00, out of pocket, to meet with an open minded nurse practitioner First thing she said to me was get off that Thyrovanz and now, after seeing my whacky test results (I had ordered and paid for on my own)
She sent me for 30 blood tests, this morning, that cost 4,580.00 I hope to h*ll and back, my insurance covers those tests! I am to go for six or seven additional tests in two weeks. Again, I hope my insurance does not “wig out” on me and say they are not going to cover that many tests.
Here I am with insurance- that costs us an arm and a leg, and paying out of pocket for tests, along with professional direction while knowing my medication options are limited, and most of them, are no longer working for many of us.
Then too, these odd side effects so many are experiencing.
What the H*LL!??
End of my rant.
Zoe E
I am new to T4 and T3 usage after using NDT for years and now using Thyrogold for the past 1 year. Can someone point me to the right blog page, facebook page, etc. where I can find recommendations for better working T4 and T3 brands? Thank you so much!
Janie Bowthorpe
People can respond here to tell you what T4 and T3 are working for them. 🙂
Lisa
Waving ‘hi’ and so disappointed too! I was on Armour 1998 to around 2014 but yes, around 2009-2010, my symptoms worsened. In 2014, I switched to NatureThroid. I’m currently on 3.5 grains of NatureThroid, having my dose increased 2.5 to 3 times, from around 1 to 1.5 grains. My past physician blamed me for not taking my medication right, which is so ludicrous. I know the drill, such as waiting at least an hour to eat. I took my medication religiously too. They also tried to blame my increase in mediation on having low iron, but nope, that wasn’t the issue. For the past year, I’ve had a new physician who has been willing to put me on T3 (I do generic Cytomel), finding my optimal dose is 25 mcg, split into half, taking it twice daily…This is in addition to my 3.5 grains of NatureThroid. I’m seriously pondering if I want to continue with NatureThroid or other NDT meds, since they seem to be so incredibly inconsistent, unreliable, etc. I’m pondering switching to some kind of synthetic T4, in addition to my current regime of T3. This is all so horrible. I feel for all of us thyroid patients actually, regardless of which medication(s) we chose to use. This IS all about the money (*wink, wink*) and well, Big Pharma really sucks.
Lucille
Why do we bother with NDT at all at this point .. on 5 NP Tyroid since March and too many bad symptoms to list .. switched from NatureThyroid due to availability .. switched from Armout due to cost .. Since synthetic T-4 and T-3 available .. Why are we messing with all this garbage that is so difficult to manage due to all the changes . Synthetic T-4 only did not work for me at all .. now that I know synthetic T-3 is available .. why would I want to push to get NDT ..which has been nothing but a nightmare since 2014. I want my life back .. working the NDT is too much work and I’m not understanding why if the synthetics do the same. Why are we driving ourselves crazy .. I’m seriously asking .. am I missing something? I was in emerg room last week with heart rate of 163 .. they told me panic attack .. I take 5 grains a day . Cry all day long and keep getting cold, hot sweats, virus’s, all over itching, allergy like symptoms, achy all over, headaches, blurred vision, nausea even vomiting, stomach and throat burning and other digestive issues.. yes I’m am quite the mess.. with 3 changes in a year running around to keep up with NDT .. I sit here and wonder why not just T-3 (cytomel) or T-4 and T-3. Why is anyone still struggling to stay on a NDT when stable synthetic t4 and t3 meds are available .. that is my question. We are not doctors and we are trying to keep up on all this complicated adrenal, saliva test, cortisol, iron, b-12, frees etc etc .. its mind boggling and making me more confused than ever .. my ‘it’s not rocket science’ comment for the day is .. just go back to synthroid and add T-3, here they do cytomel .. problem solved .. and then my Medicare will cover.. another problem solved .. no more sizing, smelling, tasting, measuring, and lab work every 6 weeks .. ect act .. I’m feel totally insane and calling my doc tomorrow for switch. Am I out of touch by suggesting this .. I mean no disrespect .. just so tired of feeling sick (like I have the flu) all the time. My brother wanted to take me to ER again today cause I felt like I was breaking down .. I am depressed but never like this .. now I read this and think I’m being poisoned with the NP I’ve been taking since March which is about the same time I took a major dive down hill. Respectfully Lucy
Alex
Hi Lusy, I am so sorry that you feel so ill… I understand you very well. Last time on NP I felt ill as well.
However, I would say that 5 grain is a really high dose. Your symptoms you describe could be also symptoms of the hyperfunction, especially your heart rate of 163.
Could it be your are overdosed on 5 grain? If I were in your place, I would first of all talk to my doctor and order the blood work.
If you take the synthetic T4 T3 you also should do your blood work every 6-8 weeks
Just Me
@Alex No, 5 grains is not a high dose. I switched to Armour and now have to take over 6 grains. I was on 4 grains of NP. It’s not the same and we seem to need MORE pills because something in ALL NDT’s has caused them to be weaker. More pills means more money and it’s looking like that’s the bottom line. Additionally, when our cortisol and iron is optimal, MOST people need 3-5 grains (per STTM book and website as well as other resources.) I am a thyroid patient AND in the medical profession. I know labs, changed medications, symptoms of Hypo (patients can and do have symptoms which aren’t cookie-cutter hypo/hyper.) I have seen people taking doses as high as 10-11 grains on NDT. We need to be optimal in many areas.
Alex
Thank you JustMe for your interesting comment. As for me, I have also been on 3,5 NP doing well being optimal with my lubs. Then I changed to 3,5 WP and experienced the same symptoms as when I was hyper with Graves‘ (especially a constant high heart rate) and like Lucy describe her symptoms. I slowly lowered WP dose and with 2,5 grain I feel better, not as well as I felt on 3,5 NP over the last years but better than on 3,5 WP.
I am absolutely agree with you that we should be optimal in many arias. But… we all are different. Therefore I think the best way for Lucy would be go to her dr and do the blood work and then see.
Just Me
Alex, have you seen the great labs which can be ordered here on STTM? Highly recommended. I think everyone is completely frustrated with what’s been happening to NDT… to say the least.
Lucille, I hope you feel better soon.
Tessa
I feel the same way. Diagnosed with Hashimoto’s a year ago and I never have really felt great on NDT
. I give up and im.going to try another Endo and see if I can get my life bac. I cant take the exhaustion much longer
Janie Bowthorpe
Tessa, if you were on NP, you were probably underdosed. It was always about being optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Now all of the NDT’s are not what they used to be. Some patients are still trying to make them work, but experience shows it’s iffy. So others are moving to the natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al, or doing both synthetic T3 with synthetic T4….and getting optimal.
Endos are obsessed with T4-only and the TSH. Fight against that.
Sheila
I have been on all the NDT’s since 2001. Armour: great till changed. ERFA: absolutely the best till they changed. WP Thyroid was working well and then into a shortage and I used Naturethroid which did not work very well and I again experienced hypothyroid symptoms. WPThyroid became available again earlier this year, and when I can get it, it seems to work pretty well. Key is finding it. I have some old WPThyroid which I never took because it turned brown almost right away after getting it (a couple of years old). Now with WPThyroid impossible to find, I am wondering if this older brown WPThyroid is ok to take. What causes it to turn brown anyway?
housemaid
Sheila, I took WP before they quit making it for a year. I would put it in a 7 day pill organizer and it would turn brown when taken out of the bottle it came in which had a dessicant. So I’d say moisture in the air is what turned your pills brown. I think it is worth trying your old WP pills if they were made before they went bad. I had been using some old Nature-throid from Jan. 2016 for a little over a week and they seemed to be working. Then I found an even older bottle of Nature-throid with 30 pills in it from Jan. 2014. I used that for 2 days and crashed. My temperature dropped to 97, my BP fell, and I couldn’t get out of bed. So I went back to the Jan. 2016 Nature-throid and recovered within a day. So just put a dessicant in your old WP pills and give them a try. Desperate situations call for desperate actions! Of course, if your pills stink like the new NP, don’t take them. My old Nature-throid pills are tasteless and odorless.
Sheila
Thanks so much. Am alternating days, taking the older brown WP Thyroid one day, and some of the new WP Thyroid I still have trying to stretch it out until WP Thyroid becomes available again (it will become available soon, right?). I appreciate your insight and so far I don’t feel like I’m crashing or anything. Don’t know what I’ll do when it runs out.
Janie Bowthorpe
When and if WP becomes available again is the deep dark secrets of RLC Labs.
Alex
I have also read this new Acella`s comment on FB.
On the September 11, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:
Quote: In the StopThyroidMadness-facebook is a comment from “Rachel Librach Nisenson”, which says, that David Margolis from Acella told her on the phone, that “..the source of the thyroids are from Europe and North America..”.
So “from Europe” seems new.
I’m from Europe and I’m sure, that we have NO producers of desiccated porcine thyroids.
As far as I know, there are 2 companies in Europe, one in Italy, the other in Spain, that are buying desiccated thyroids from South America, testing them and sell them again.“
Also on the September 9, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:
Quote: 3. We are from Germany, Munich, Metropolitan Pharmacy.“
I would presume that a person who works in a Pharmacy in Europe should be well informed. This raised the question whether Acella is lying again.
Marilyn Turnbull
Hi, I am new to this group. I read STTM book a few years ago and found it to be very helpful. I had Graves Disease and radiation which took all of my thyroid function and have been on Synthroid and then switched to compounded T3/T4.
After reading your latest blog “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients” I called my compounding pharmacy and asked for the name of the company which supplies their thyroid hormones. She said it is called Medisca. Formerly they were using Armour. She didn’t know why they switched.
I am presently in a hyperthyroid state with an elevated T3. I have been using glandulars: Dr. Ron’s Ultra Pure Kidney from New Zealand and Thyro Complex from Endo-met Labs which contains kelp, Bovine thyroid, Porcine adrenal, porcine pituitary and porcine spleen powders and a separate supplement from Endomet Labs, Kelp. I am on a special program to balance the thyroid and adrenal levels and sodium/potassium pump called Nutritional Balancing started years ago by Dr. Paul Eck and is being carried on by Dr. Lawrence Wilson and Dr. Eck’s family continue to run the laboratory which is in Phoenix, Arizona. I’ve been doing well on this program.
I am 70 years old and lost my thyroid function when I was 35 years old. I have been on the Nutritional Balancing program for six years and a half years and have dumped a ton of heavy metals. I feel the recent increase in my T3 is probably due to too many glandulars. I get my dessicated thyroid hormones in 30 mg. tablets and use my hair analysis to determine my thyroid hormone status. This is done by assessing the calcium/potassium ratio which is the thyroid ratio and the adrenal ratio which is the sodium/magnesium ratio and the vitality ratio by the sodium/potassium ratio AND the oxidation rate. I am presently in slow oxidation and the thyroid meds are not penetrating the cells as they should so in this case I would increase the hormones to 150 mg. per day versus 120 mg. per day. this has worked well until I increased the Thyro Complex. So now I am having panic attacks again. I am wondering if I should leave the thyroid dosage at 150 mg. and stop the Thyro Complex or should I also decrease the thyroid meds to 120 mg. per day until the panic attacks stop.
Also, how has Medisca been rated by STTM? It’s a scary thing to think we may have been put out to sea in a tiny boat with no anchor.
Janie Bowthorpe
That is the facility that provides NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) powder to compounding pharmacies. We really don’t know much about it.
If you are having panic attacks, might need look into doing a saliva cortisol test, then comparing the results to the Lab Values Page on STTM. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol
Also, might want to do blood testing for the free T3 and free T4 and compare the the Lab Values page, too.
Stephanie Pierce
So I just saw this on FB, not sure if it has been reported here already, but yeah, they did change sonething, they changed where they sourced their material. https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR05k-PjRJGIcZn2wFWR8VzSAlaLxZqh6Ag_yq3oODX1oc3enIyKnmrs-HY
matt
For people feeling hypo on this – I am not seeing people mentioning taking this sublingual. If its a coating issue, sublingual, grind up first in cheek then leaving / taking sublingual – takes about 10 imn to absorb should help. My new spotted, taller, diff smelling NP 60’s work fine this way so far. thats how Ive taken many brands of NDT though, zero ill feeling so far.. With past brands (4), I tested/ compared this way, then rertested swallowing. Taking the Sub method always offered slightly higher T4 if mouth is clean- no protine traces.T3 is never changed by protien (impossible), just T4 can be bound to protien.there is ALWAYS for trace protien in gut than mouth if you rinse out your mouth. Cant rinse out your gut LOL. I take twice a day too. TRY It.
matt
Of course this is for people going hypo if this new NP has absorbing issues (like Armour and NT in 2009-2010 forward).. If there is other symptoms then this wont do anything. So far this is fine for me. We are all different and maybe not all of the new NP is the same.
Kathy
The option I chose was changing to compound T3 and T4. It was only a few dollars more than NP.
I had a “conversation” with a rep. from Acella over the phone. I repeatedly told him he was NOT addressing the complaint of taste, color etc. and there was no way the formula was the same. And I would be not be taking NP again.
Also has anyone else noticed that one of the fillers in NP is calcium stearate? Several health professionals I listen to recommend taking no calcium, magnesium or zinc until 2-4 hours later!! Maybe the calcium stearate is why my free T4 and free T3 stayed at the bottom of the range!!!
Kathy S. Lawrence
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, their line is always along the line of “we changed nothing” and “it’s normal to have differences between batches”. Those of us who have used Acella awhile, or other brands, know very well that there has NEVER been changes like this. What they are not addressing are the myriad of bad reactions and return of hypo symptoms that so many are having. It’s a tragedy and people are responding by refusing to give Acella their money.
sam
does that mean that if you a re still feeling tired and cant lose weight very easily that is ok to take more thyrogold[ or whatevr are taking ] .sometimes if i take a lot more heartrate can be higher but you mean thats becuase are not taking enough adn if tak e more for a week or 2 heart rate will go down ot normal and will adjust and the problem is still too litttle not too much thryo gold . [ am not sure i understand correclty ] thank you jamie for this website !!
Janie Bowthorpe
You always have to watch your free T3 and free T4 before raising. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
sam
thansk you jamie hate going to the dr such a waste of time and hard to ge t them to do the tests like this on e . they’ll do the tsh etc but pain i the neck to get them to do others
wish there was some other way to tell
Karen f
I was on NP and because my numbers were still off I had to switch to Tirosant (t4 only synthetic) . I didn’t have a choice. But now my free t3 and freet4 are good and tsh is super low at .0006. My heart rate is always high and I did not know that my meds could cause that. Is that what causes it? It’s so up and down from 78-130! And I don’t work out ! Sometimes I’ll just be standing there and it’s 104. Seems high to me for just standing.
Margarita
I think I still have a good batch of NP Thyroid. It’s sweet tasting (even though it does have a particular taste, it’s NOT cat litter). When I first started on NP from Naturethroid back in January 2019, my T4 and T3 went high! I had to lower my dose from 3 grains to 2 to keep my T3 in the upper range. HOWEVER, I am on my last two days of “good batch NP”. I just placed a refill and am scared to start on the new batch. I am not even sure whether it might still be one of the good ones or not. I’ll have to see.
My question is – will it be ok to start taking T3 only even when Free T3 is already in the higher range?
I am looking at other options offered here too and am overwhelmed of what would be the best route to take. I am so upset about this change in NDT!!! Just when I started to feel better and do better (my hair stopped falling out, no heart palps), I am seeing this post and it makes me want to cry, it’s so upsetting. I too am disgusted by many of the ignorant doctors and our pharmaceutical industry. Both are in the business to make money and not help people. It’s sad.
A huge THANK YOU to you, Janie, for advocating for us and providing us with all this information. It’s been a blessing.
Janie Bowthorpe
If a free T3 is in the very upper part (way above midrange) and free T4 is midrange, that is optimal
You’ll know you have the changed NP is the smell is way worse, the taste is horrid, and you start having any kind of problems on the same amount you’re no now.
And you are very welcome. 🙂
Lynn
Janie, I am not on Facebook but look at your page to keep updated. I used to be able to load the comments to your posts (relevant, oldest, or all comments) but now they aren’t loading. When I choose “all comments” it just keeps spinning. I don’t know if Facebook is messing with it so they won’t load or if it is a setting that changed. In any event, now the only way I can read comments is if you have also posted here. When you posted about the T3 Mayne Pharma change I was able to quickly switch within one week so I didn’t get alot of bad symptoms and it is the way I found my compounding pharmacy, American Integrative in Lomita CA. They only use one filler, Acidophilus and someone had posted their information. Your Facebook posts and comments keep me healthy! I am still signed up to receive your newsletter and check your blog here often to read comments and the latest updates. I just wish the Facebook comments were visible to me. Thank you for doing what you do, you are a valuable source of information and are much appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
Lynn, the exact same thing happens to me on Mac. So it’s a Facebook issue. I have to go to my phone to see all the messages.
Vicky
Am about five days into my new NP. Have labs ordered for 3 weeks in. I am one who thinks the old stinky NP was the good stuff and the new, no smell NP but yes taste is definitely cat litter. I am going to see if there are compounded options. I heard from my compounder that it is expensive but doable. I had such a horrific response to cytomel along with levothyroxin, I am loathe to try it again. Damn the cost, I will pay whatever. Anyone have advice for me.
Stefanie
I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.
Margarita
How do you order exactly? Do you just call the compounding pharmacy and tell them you need 60-65 mg of NDT? I’m confused with this. Help!
Lynn
What’s your opinion of WP Thyroid? I’ve taken it for years.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Lynn. It’s honestly not about opinion. I’ve made sure that the majority of what is associated with Stop the Thyroid Madness is about years of strong experiences and wisdom. SO….WP was always a great product as expressed by patients.
When RLC quit making both WP and Naturethroid for a year, the first that came back was Naturethroid and we watched what appeared to be every single patient have problems. It was clearly now messed up. WP came out later, and we really haven’t had good responses the past year.
The problem is that we have to be optimal on NDT, not just “on it”. If our labs are not optimal, the feels good eventually go south. We have seen that for years. The individuality is when it will south.
We’ve had some people say they felt great on a non-optimal dose of any NDT for a few years, only to later admit they had problems, but didn’t associate them with not being optimal. Then they get worse. And some people claim they feel great, but when we see their free t3 and free T4, they aren’t optimal and are destined to see a return of hypo. (And they get defensive about their labs and feel-goods, taking it like an assault when we explain what happens if not optimal.)
SO we do have two people recently who have said they feel great on WP. SO without seeing their frees, it’s a gamble.
So for you saying you’ve taken it for years, it’s important to be optimal. This explains: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal See if you can be optimal on it.
Debbie Rhyner
I have not had any problems with WP Thyroid by RLC Labs. I have been on it since 2015.
Janie Bowthorpe
That’s great, Debbie. Thanks for letting us know. We’ve had a hard time figuring out if people are doing well on it.
Margie
I definitely had severe trouble with Nature-Throid in 2018. My doctor and I worked through it with lots of blood tests and fiddling with dosage. I’m still taking Nature-Throid and seem to be staying relatively stable lately. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find so my doctor has been talking about switching me to NP Thyroid. After reading this I’m not so thrilled about that idea. Another option she has offered is a compounding pharmacy. I’m wondering if NDT from compounding pharmacies is having similar problems? I’m now leaning in that direction.
Do you have a link to a page that outlines how you collect your data on people reporting problems with their medication? Do you share your data somewhere? Is it anecdotal or do you have other methods you use for data collection? Just thinking about talking to my doctor about reported problems with her current favorite medication, NP Thyroid.
Janie Bowthorpe
Margie, it started out being just me in 2002, but quickly moved to a lot of patient reporting, listening, gathering what people were saying. This has been going on for 17 years.
And via those 17 years of patient reports and wisdom, we saw a pattern for so many things–where people fall in lab rantes when optimal (which means they don’t lose the good effect), which meds work better than others (it was clearly NDT or even T3), how we need the right amount of iron and cortisol to get optimal without problems…on and on
The sharing of what we have learned is right on the STTM website, in the books, in the blog comments and on the Facebook page. We also continue to get feedback on the solid info we have gathered.
But with doctors, many can pooh-pooh the solid info. They think that the truth revolves around research. Yet we know for a fact that research will often represent who is paying for it, or be faulty. For example, the Walter Reed VA facility did research on NDT (DTE). And they came up with only the following:
“DTE therapy did not result in a significant improvement in quality of life; however, DTE caused modest weight loss and nearly half (48.6%) of the study patients expressed preference for DTE over L-T. DTE therapy may be relevant for some hypothyroid patients.”
First, there has always been a significant improvement in quality of life as reported by patients, but we have to be OPTIMAL on our NDT, not just on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Additionally, though 48.6% said they approve NDT, it could have been a LOT higher. Why? The research was going by the TSH, which we know is the WORST way to dose by. The range leaves us hypo. Second, the researchers did not know about the problems with adrenal fatigue and low iron. Both, when raising NDT, will cause problems!!
Do the bottom line, this is one of many example of “research” can be very faulty.
But I have been collecting research which at least underscores what we know by repeated experiences to be true: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research
Catbond
Im on compound WTE and compound T3 from CompoundLabs in NZ. Both are working very well to get me towards optimal, however, they say that there is an ongoing worldwide shortage of ingredients for both the WTE and T3 and so are only dispensing 30 days supply at a time. It also is taking approximately a week to dispatch, once ordered, so its very easy for us to be caught short and not be able to get more quickly.
Stefanie
I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.
Sheri
Are you still doing well with Woodland Hills NDT compound? How long have you used them? I tried a couple and it didn’t go too well. I’d like to try them. I was hoping to see positive feedback.
DeeCan
Here is the cycle I’ve noticed. First Armour changed so people from the US and Internationally went on ERFA from Canada. That was scary for me, being from Canada, because it seems to be one of the reasons ERFA switched manufacturers so that they could accommodate people from all around the world. Then ERFA changed (trying to produce Thyroid more cost-effectively for ERFA perhaps?). So that was the end of ERFA Thyroid as we once knew it. Now that other ndts have changed, except for Thyroid-S, apparently, there will be a huge demand for other sources of natural dessicated thyroid. Pretty soon that will go the way of the Dodo bird, too. Basically, we’re doomed. Sorry, I’ve been basically off ndt for 3 or 4 years now, and I’m feeling very pessimistic, and my brain is nowhere near functioning at optimal levels.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi DeeCan. Yes, it’s frustrating. 🙁 But we are not necessarily doomed. You never know who will see this and produce another NDT. And even so, there are options that may work well as outlined in the post. Don’t forget those, and remember to get optimal with those frees (but you have to have optimal iron and cortisol to get there without problems, we have learned repeatedly. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol)
Amy
My dd and I both have hashis. She has flipped back and forth from naturethroid to wp depending on availability. I have tried to stay with wp as I liked it better and could chew it. I am also on t3(sigma pharm). We have both felt worse over the summer and my hair has been falling out. We get 90 supplies of the meds, so it would make sense that we got one of the new batches. I found some of the old batch and the color difference is quite noticeable. I have upped my t3 again, which seems to help the symptoms, but lab numbers are all over the place. The pharmacy is back ordered again, which is getting really old. We go back to the doctor on Thursday so I’ll be interested in what she says. She sells naturethroid from the office, and wp when you couldn’t get it. Wondering if she is seeing this across her patients.
Pamela
I used to be on Acella, but because I wanted more control over my dosing, I switched to Thyrovanz this past February. I feel I’ve been doing well on it, but I do intend to order a blood test from an independent lab to confirm.
I can’t speak to other supplements, but as far as Thyrovanz is concerned: the only active ingredient is bovine thyroid powder. There aren’t any spleen, adrenal, liver, or any other glandular powders to be concerned about. If I understand correctly, this NDT has the “dietary supplement” label because it is not subjected to the FDA for analysis. As far as the government is concerned, it’s a food product, not a pharmaceutical. The provider, then, can’t make claims about its potency, and that’s probably the biggest risk factor about using the product: getting the right dose right away.
But if a person is truly unhappy with the current NDT products, and if blood tests verify the ineffectiveness, then I personally wouldn’t hesitate to point them toward Thyrovanz as a potentially viable alternative.
Janie Bowthorpe
And it’s important to add that Thyrogold, which has been around even longer, is also a good OTC natural thyroid supplement by years of patient reports, first created by Dr. John C. Lowe. All good ones need to be mentioned.
Also especially with Thyrovanz, there appear to be a few who have quite high frees on a lower amount of Thyrovanz, to the point of being problematic. So on any OTC, watch your frees before raising. That means whether it’s Thyrovanz or not. There is no guarantee that any OTC natural thyroid supplement will be consistent from bottle to bottle.
And if anyone finds a third OTC that is making one optimal (free T3 at the top part of the range, free T4 midrange–both) let us know.
Sheila
I am on NP 90mgs per day..I get the 30mgs..Take 2 in AM…1 in afternoon…
Has this affected the 30 mg tablets…mine seem the same…have a sweet taste..I chew them and let them dissolve in my mouth…I just got my re fill last week..say Sept..15th..
Janie Bowthorpe
Sounds like you still have the old good stock. By the way, a total of 90 mg of the good stock is most likely underdosing you as we’ve seen before in others or our own experiences. You won’t be optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Ellen weir
Hello. I’ve been through 30 plus years of changes and he’ll. Thank you Janie. I’m still able to get old NP, not too stinky from my local pharmacy. But, the generic HC I’ve been on for a year has now changed size and distributor!! I haven’t slept in 2 weeks and it’s the same BS that we are getting with NP. I went to CVS which I had band, and they have WP, which is the only natural thyroid meds I haven’t been on. Have people been experiencing same problems on WP? Jeez
Janie Bowthorpe
We can’t tell with WP.
Mariana
Hi. Finding all thes comments on NDT on this blog is so useful!!! I am switching to synthetic T4 + T3 and I am splitting my T3 AND T4 in 3 daily doses. I think Taking T4 (and not only T3) in small doses throughout the day is closer to thyroid physiology and to what we do when we split our NDT. It definitely helps me.
Janie Bowthorpe
Remember that no matter what we are on, this is still important: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal That is also mentioned more now in the updated revision STTM book. This one: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/updated-revision-sttm-book
Janie Bowthorpe
So glad for you. And remember that our goal even on the to synthetics is still to get optimal.
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Jay
Other Options for Treatment with NDT:
1) ARMOUR: A few days ago, I asked a question on another board about Armour………….Two patients responded that they are on Armour and they started AFTER the 2009 fiasco and they are still doing well on Armour today. So the question is………is Armour still WORKABLE? Seems like it would be worth a shot to try Armour (if your current brand is not working) and if Armour does not work right away to raise the dose, if needed, after checking labs to get optimal.
2) THAILAND (THRYOID-S, THIROYD, TR) Are they still producing any of these three? I have seen posts VERY recently saying that some or all are now out of production. I have heard about these medications for many years and the reviews have mostly been positive. Can anyone give updates on the availability of these meds and/or their effectiveness?
3) WP: Is WP back or is it NOT back? This question needs to be answered. I talked to my doctor a few days ago and he said it is very hard to get. If it is back, what strengths are back? Also, how is it working for patients if it is back? WP MIGHT be the one that steps in to SAVE the day since there are so few fillers. And WP is made by a company that has been in the NDT business for a long, long time. It would be a GOOD idea to start calling them about WP to see if they can work with the NDT community to help out.
4) Australia, Germany, Denmark, New Zealand: NDT from these countries has always been on the listed on this website. Has anyone from the US, Canada, or UK ever been able to order NDT from these countries and have them shipped to the US, Canada, or UK?
Janie Bowthorpe
The problem is that we don’t really know if someone is truly doing *well* on anything without seeing their free T3 and free T4. To be optimal in these two labs is critical to avoid lingering problems–the latter which people don’t always mention when they say they are “doing well”, we’ve noticed repeatedly.
Just Me
Just an FYI: Labs are private and requests from non-medical persons for individual lab results violates HIPAA laws.
Janie Bowthorpe
It appears to be about consent, Just Me. Not forcing anyone. But it doesn’t change that each individual might want to learn from patient experiences about what optimal is. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie Bowthorpe
Just Me, research was done by two admins here and HIPAA Rules apply only to Healthcare providers, Health plans, healthcare clearing houses, etc. Also to Business associates of HIPAA covered associates. It doesn’t apply to fellow patients, which are not covered entities. A patient can choose to share or not their lab results with no penalty either way.
Stephanie Morgan
I recently ordered Thyroid S after not doing well on Thyrogold. The first week on Thyroid S I felt much better, but by the second week I was having heart palpitations. I dropped my dose and continued to take it but by the third week my heart felt like it was pounding out of my chest. I stopped taking it. After doing some research, I discovered that this is a common problem on this NDT.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Stephanie. Actually, that’s a common problem when on any NDT if you are underdosed, or have an adrenal problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Anina
@ Jay
I am very sorry! Sriprasit Pharma in Thailand decided this summer to stop producing Thyroid-S, allegedly due to low demand from hospitals and pharmacies. Also, T.Man Pharma already last spring stopped producing TR Thyroid. Only Thiroyd remains in production so far …
It’s possible that Thai manufacturers are currently testing how their domestic customers will respond to the forced switch to synthetic levothyroxine, but Thailand is a country where reduced ability to work = starvation, so I reckon when purchased ‘stocks’ of NDT are no more, and those desperate poor sick realize that they cannot maintain livelihood on synthetic levothyroxine – it will probably start a minor civil war.
In contrast, in countries like the Scandinavian/European, where health care is paid over the taxes – society is paying for all the losses which are results of doctors preventing the hypothyroid patients from getting well … while we are paying the same doctors millions and millions in high salaries each and every year, just for keeping us sick.
Keep in mind that synthetic levothyroxine is a constant number between 3 and 5 in the top ten of the largest number of daily doses sold – on ALL the continents of the world! Through ALL the decades since the 1970s! The risk of losing these HUGE revenues (billions and billions) is why NDT drugs are now consistently sabotaged worldwide. It is a battle we will lose unless millions of our healthy relatives begin to fight with us.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s Thiroyd that is ceasing, not Thyroid-S.
Ana
Thank you, Janie, for this summary of the current state of thyroid treatment. I too am disgusted. All we want is a medical community that will listen to us, will learn from our experiences, and will not be afraid to challenge the 50-year-old, deeply flawed dogma that has harmed so many patients over the years.
There are wonderful doctors out there, but because of the lack of research, problematic guidelines, and limited treatment options even the best doctors are stumbling around in the dark. And thyroid disease itself is viewed by most in the medical community as insignificant, creating another hurdle to getting improved care.
We need more scientific inquiry, more intelligent research, guidelines based on the best science, an overhaul in the way doctors are trained, and a variety of safe, consistent medications that will allow us to lead full, productive lives. How do we bring about such a change?
Janie Bowthorpe
Actually, there is research that proves what we know by our experiences: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research And doctors need to LISTEN To and OBSERVE their patients better in the first place. It’s not, not, not just about research (and who was paid to do the research). There is also very biased and crap research out there, too.
Ana
Yes, I completely understand that all of STTM is based on good research. I didn’t express myself well. My frustration is that in the medical community all the good research gets buried (Robert Utiger’s research on the TSH reactions to NDTS/t3 for example) and doesn’t get built upon by successive generations of scientists. Most of the research of the past 50 years is based on faulty premises, that someone on synthetic t4 monotherapy with a TSH in a broad reference range is normal, etc. Those flawed, often badly designed studies get cited over and over and other researchers do yet more research based on the faulty findings. The doctors in my family have told me that protocols won’t change without replicated research, and for complicated reasons, the thyroid research went off on the wrong track around 1970 (much of it driven by the manufacturers of synthetic t4). It will only get turned around with more good research that can refute all the bad stuff that’s driving the diagnostic and treatment protocols. The good research will come from practitioners listening to and learning from their patients, observing how what patients actually experience contradicts the accepted dogma.
matt
Janie- I have the new NP’s, since august, they do look different – just like the photos provided on STTM, I use them sublingual, and they taste the same to me. They smell a little different, but Im NOT smelling cat pee. Im a guy, but still I think some are over exaggerating the smell. Counting past obvious reformulations, I ve used eight formulations of NDT in my life, they all smelled a little different. Yes we had more brands only 12 years ago. Since Acella says they added manufacturing on their website “NP update”, this would be new machinery added (I’v been a manufacturing engineer) and explains the shape difference. The new machinery might need a different release agent too, – thus the smell change. I have used about 60 of my new pills, in combination with some of my old leftover pills. Even at 50% new pills, I should feel hypo or with new symptoms, but dont. I will look into getting the three labs done soon to see what my levels are and report back.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, the only logical explanation said to me personally by Acella a few weeks ago is why the tablet size was different–the new tablet press machine. The rest which was stated struck me as dismissal.
DeeCan
It seems really coincidental that ALL manufacturers of ndt have new pressing machines. ERFA has new machines, now others?
Janie Bowthorpe
It may be because of demand.
Carolyn
Janie,
I am picking up a new NP rx tomorrow. Are all of the new pills speckled like NatureThroid? What else should I be looking for to see if I have a new/bad batch or an old batch. I use a small local pharmacy so there is a good chance of getting either one (for different reasons). Just need to know what to look for. I couldn’t clearly see the differences on the posted photos.
Janie Bowthorpe
A release agent…can you tell us more about that?
matt
They can either use a “dusting” compound (fda appvd) or air blast to release pills from press forms. Too light to just fall out on their own.
Janie Bowthorpe
That is interesting. Thank you for explaining that. We as patients are kept in the dark about most things “pharmaceutical”.
Yet, neither of those seem to explain the repugnant smell patients have noticed on the changed NP Thyroid tablets, a smell far worse than the natural pig smell that we have noticed for years.
matt
It might, if the release is not an air, nitrogen or other gas “blast” and is chemically compounded into the outside of the pill, or the “dusting” itself stinks and impregnates into the pills. .There are many ways to do this. Everything has a smell, just how strong is what makes it obvious or not. Other pills can smell sometimes, not just these thyroid pills.
Pamela
I can personally attest to the fact that compressed air–the kind marketed to clean dust of a computer keyboard–can transfer a super nasty taste to the fingers of the keyboard user. So I can easily imagine that an air blast release might explain the repugnant taste and smell of the pills.
Janie Bowthorpe
Interesting analogy, Pamela!
Melody
I know Wikipedia isn’t a medical site. Here is 1 paragraph about canned air/duster. If you think further about adding this to pills, there is bound to be moisture to some extent in the cans. Could it be that this is destroying the good that is in the pills, once they get a little damp?
Since gas dusters are one of the many inhalants that can be easily abused, many manufacturers have added a bittering agent to deter people from inhaling the product. Because of the generic name “canned air”, it is mistakenly believed that the can only contains normal air or contains a less harmful substance (such as nitrous oxide, for example). However, the gases actually used are denser than air, such as difluoroethane. When inhaled, the gas displaces the oxygen in the lungs and removes carbon dioxide from the blood causing the user to suffer from hypoxia which results in the euphoric feeling abusers desire. This type of inhalant abuse can cause a plethora of negative effects including brain and nerve damage, paralysis, serious injury, or death.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your comment was apparently sent to spam and I just found it and “undid” the spam designation. Sorry about that. It’s very interesting.
Just Me
@Matt, We are definitely NOT exaggerating and to suggest that is highly offensive and dismissive. Shall I tell you about the extreme chemical burn in my alimentary canal due to the “New” NP? Please don’t make blanket statements simply because you may have the older batch.
LB
I agree! It is very dismissive, and seems to imply (to me) that it is women who are exaggerating and complaining about this. I’ve tasted all kinds of bad tasting/smelling foods and health supplements in my time traveling the world without complaint, but my first whiff of this “new” NP smelled and tasted very much like chemicals or the cat pee of many complaints. However, I found very little of the smell lingered in my refills after I put a desiccant pack in the bottle, although the taste was still a bit off.
matt
On average, mens sense of smell is not as great as womens, That is why I wrote that. And you automaticaly asumed I was putting down women? Jumping on that pretty fast there arent you? My batch looks and smells different than any NP Ive had for four years running. It was ordered in for me late August as they had none in stock.
Emily
Matt, I’m sorry to say that whether you are aware of it or not, your statement did come across as dismissive. My husband is also “a guy”, but one with a strong sense of smell, so when I asked him what my recently refilled tablets smelled like to him, his response was “cat piss” (we have cats, so we are well familiar with that smell). Please remember that many of us are here because doctors and others did not believe our symptoms but we got better when we found answers here, so perhaps if we are a bit sensitive to being told that some of us are “over exaggerating”, it is because we are tired of not being heard or believed.
Margarita
Matt’s comment was not an attack on women. By saying “some” does not equal “women”. I am a woman, and I do not see anything dismissive or offensive in the post. Maybe it’s time for some to recheck their adrenals…
Ana
Matt, are you working for Acella?
Sandy
I first began taking thyroid medications 20+ years ago. I was prescribed Synthroid originally, & took T4-only meds (Synthroid, Levothroid, etc) for 15+ years. However, I kept feeling worse & worse, to the point that I was almost non-functional. My chiropractor told me about the STTM book, which I purchased & read. Then I had to find a doctor who would prescribe NDT. I finally found an endocrinologist who reluctantly prescribed 1 grain of Armour, but wouldn’t do more lab work for 2 months & therefore wouldn’t increase my dosage. I felt so much better on it that I thought maybe that was all I needed. Unfortunately, just as the STTM book says will happen, after a while, I started feeling bad again. I finally found a doctor who would allow me to gradually increase my dosage by 15 mg per week, & did so until I reached 3 grains. I felt much better on that dosage, & the doctor was pleased with the lab work. I honestly don’t know if I was optimal on that dosage, based on the STTM recommendations, or not, because I just relied on what the doctor told me at that time. At some point I was changed to NatureThroid, I think due to insurance, & continued to do pretty well on that until the issue with not being able to get it. At that point, I was changed by my current nurse practitioner to NP Thyroid. I felt pretty well on it, & was very close to optimal until my latest refill. I always thought it had a very strong smell, much stronger than the other NDTs I’d taken. But when I got the new one, it had hardly any smell. Also, instead of being pure white like it had previously been, it was now light gray with dark speckles. By this time, I had read about the changes here, but hoped I’d still do OK on it. Before too long though, my symptoms returned, & I felt like I was heading back toward that almost non-functional place. I contacted my nurse practitioner’s office a couple of different times concerning this, & after explaining how terrible I felt & how desperate I was becoming, she sent in a prescription for Armour for me. It took a while before I could get it because my insurance wouldn’t pay for it yet, since it was too soon after I’d had the NP Thyroid filled. I was finally able to start taking it on October 11, & I’m feeling so much better about the last week or so. I haven’t had labs done yet, so I don’t know yet whether I’m optimal or not, but I’m so glad to be feeling better again. I hope it continues! I appreciate all of the good info that’s available from STTM!
Jen
Has anyone been using Thyrogold and can attest that it’s not falling to the same fate as the prescribed NDT? I’m interested in trying it, but am worried that it too will start to suffer in it’s potency. This whole situation IS disgusting, Janie. I feel like I had my life back for a whole 2 years only to have it ripped away again.
Janie Bowthorpe
The OTC natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold are not falling the same fate. Prescription NDT’s were not from New Zealand as these are.
sam
ive been using thyrogold for mayeb 10 or 8 years now . after 5 yeasrs of worhtless synthroid . i havent started the new looking bottle [ white with back lettering ] the old one s have navy blue label[ 300 ] or medium blue 150]
ill try the new one soon to see if any differnet
i still do have some problems with fatigue and weight gain but wiht out taking anyhting was exhasuted . i buy it because i refuse to buy GMOS adn pretty s ure the other pharmecutical stuff is from GMO fed pigs [ factory farmed too probably ]
did have very bad adrenal fatigue several yeasr ago think still have it jsut not as bad as was .
i wonder if i never started tkaing synthroid 15 or so years ago if my thyroid woudl have gone back to normal after a stressful year .thats what happened to a freind of mine . but i was bullied or talked into taking it by a dr who i never should have listened to! and they wonder why we dont trust drs and dislike them !
Janie Bowthorpe
Sounds like you need to be watching your free t3 and free T4 and get them optimal on Thyrogold. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Marylynn Caldwell
I’ve recently gone from 2 1/2 grains of NDT to T4/T3 synthetic. For years I’ve wanted to get back on 3 grains of NDT but met resistance because I’m 76. So because my Rt3 was high, I managed to get my compounding pharmacist and nurse practitioner working together to adjust my dose on synthetic and I’m now 30 micrograms of synthetic T3 which is even a little more than the equivalent of 3 grains of NDT and less T4 (83 micrograms) . Finally. I actually feel better on the synthetic than I did on the natural. Probably because they were messing around with it. So I think you’re on the right track.
Janie Bowthorpe
Marylynn, one grain of NDT is equal to 25 micrograms of T3.
Marylynn Caldwell
From Naturethroid’s website: getrealthyroid. com it says each grain contains 38 micrograms of T4 and 9 micrograms of T3
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, that is mentioned all over STTM and in the book.
Mary Ann Z
I use naturethroid. For the last year, I have had maybe 1 good batch of NDT.
It may not be the way they make it however.
Perhaps the source ingredients are ineffective.
My son who is in medical school suggested that if the pigs the thyroid glands are taken from are
hypothyroid, the NDT will not be very effective. I don’t know what’s going on but I keep buying more and more bottles hoping I’ll get a good one, sigh!
Karen H
Hi Janie,
I feel kind of sheepish about this, but I just got my thyroid blood tests results and everything is optimal. Free T4 slightly above the middle of the normal range, Free T3 high normal, and TSH almost undetectable. I too have been feeling extremely fatigued and having some return of hypo symptoms. I was pretty sure the cause was the “new” NP. B12 was optimal. The only thing that had gone down a bit, but was still well within the normal range was Ferritin. I’ve been on the new stinky NP since May of this year. So now I’m confused as to whether the changes are as dramatic as I had thought. I would hate to return to synthetics, as I found cytomel to be EXTREMELY over-stimulating relative to the NDT T3.
Janie Bowthorpe
No need to feel sheepish. We want to learn from each other. Are you saying that you have felt extremely fatigued and a return of hypo symptoms since May and to the current day? Also, do you know that all NDT (unless there is a strong coating) are a little stinky? What patients are reporting is a massive amount of terrible stink.
Karen H
My lot numbers match up with two of the ones on the list. I take 15 (1/4) and 30 (1/2) grain tablets. I don’t chew the tablets up, but I did notice an extra strong odor on the new 30s.
My symptoms aren’t as extreme as many of the people who have written in and consist mainly of fatigue, feeling cold and some muscle heaviness. It may also be exacerbated by the weather as we head into fall.
Janie Bowthorpe
People were noticing a difference in the Summer.
Sarie
Karen, what was your Reverse T3? The Frees can appear optimal, but if Reverse is high we’re not getting T3 into the cells 💗
Meg Chrisler
Janie, this is such a great site and has always been helpful; HOWEVER, please define certain terms when they are first used. I’ve referred several friends of mine to this site and they are discouraged because too many abbreviations are used without defining them. We all are bombarded by abbreviations and acronyms in this busy world and it would really make reading your site much easier, especially for newbies who are dealing with thyroid disease. Keep up the great work!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Meg. I have added the words “Natural Thyroid Hormones” before NDT and also added “Stop the Thyroid Madness” before STTM. At the very beginning. 🙂 For future reference for others: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/acronyms
Jenn
I’m confused because I thought Erfa was still working for people & I planned to switch to that although I’m in US. If Erfa changed in past I thought I heard that Erfa went back to the original & was concerned about the change even asking patients effected to give them batch #s in order to fix the problem. Am I wrong with this information? Can anyone explain more on Erfa? I spoke to a pharmacist from an online Canadian pharmacy & she said she looked into this when Armour changed & many US patients then switched to Erfa. If Erfa is also no good then I will have to find something else.
Janie Bowthorpe
Jenn, if you want to try and make Erfa work, you are supported!! This info is about people who used to be on it, then saw a terrible return of their hypothyroid symptoms after something changed. It’s the latter that at different times is being referred to. And it’s been very unclear how people are really doing since then.
There are some people on every single of these once changed NDTs that feel they are doing well. Sure hope that is true.
Gina
If you remember this itching thing started with the new erfa a few years back too… Listen Janie I can’t even believe I logged on today to see this new article from you. I have been telling you this for YEARS now. The thyroid powder is no longer made in the US and none of the manufacturers are being honest about where they are getting it from OR if it is even really porcine thyroid powder at all! It is well known that China are the great imitators and this is clearly no different. I have also noticed from my own research that many of the pig farmers are not allowed to sell us the pig thyroids anymore. Something is definitely up! Since you have so many readers now, AND so many suffering, including yourself, can you please organize this group to start having these damn pills tested? Let’s find out what is REALLY in them together. Can we come together and do this now? It will be affordable if we all chip in for the cost. There is NO known safe porcine thyroid powder producer left on the planet that I can find. Russ really has me thinking about the duck thyroid… hmmm.. I wonder if it could work?
Janie Bowthorpe
Gina, it’s only been a few years since the one US manufacturer stopped making it. And NP was using a private source, and it worked…until now.