The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients

The Change of Natural Desiccated Thyroid in 2019 is bad
The life-changing prescription NDTs are not that they used to be…

I never thought that I’d be writing this, but evidence underscores that all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have gone south/changed from what they used to be.

Where’s the evidence? It’s from many patients who were doing well on each one for years, then saw their symptoms go south, including seeing changes in the tablet at the same time.

  • ARMOUR by Allergan--which for years (before Allergan bought out Forest) was always a consistent and excellent NDT, was the first that patients noticed had made a change in 2009. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypo. 2015 also saw a problem. See the September, 2015 Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) blog post.
  • ERFA Canada’s NDT in Canada, which many in the US moved over to after Armour went south, went south in 2014--there were vast reports of a return of hypo symptoms after it had been a great product before. And of course, Erfa stated they changed nothing. Here’s my blog post.
  • NATURETHROID by RLC Labs, which gave excellent results for years, seemed to royally change in 2018 when it came back out after a hiatus. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way when they got back on. See that blog post here. WP Thyroid seems to have gone downhill as well, reported by “some” patients. We need more feedback to see if for others, it can work again. Remember it’s about being optimal, not just “how you feel”.
  • NP THYROID, the last remaining consistent and excellent NDT by Acella Pharmaceuticals, seemed to change horribly in the summer of 2019. Patients started to report a miserable return of hypo symptoms. But it didn’t end there. Patients also reported a slew of other terrible symptoms, ranging from nausea, burning in stomach, allergic reactions, flu-like symptoms and more depending on who was reporting. Also reported is a highly repulsive taste and rank smell (many patients comparing it to cat pee or kitty litter). My blog post about this here.

And the pharmaceuticals don’t seem to give a damn, exclaim patients!

Sadly, when hypothyroid patients reported contacting each pharmaceutical about the return of their hypo symptoms as well as other strange symptoms, the pharm replies were similar: “We didn’t change anything”. That line was especially true for Erfa, RLC Labs and now Acella, say patients. Some patients have cried “Foul!” and compared it to gaslighting and dismissal.

Or, after patients reported to Acella about a strong return of hypothyroid symptoms on top of the clearly changed tablets, the first seemingly official Acella-reply never even mentioned the horrible symptoms, and simply underscored that “it is normal for tablet colors to be different between batches and have a slight smell’. No, say the majority of patients, the new smell was far worse than any NDT all these years, besides being repulsive, as is the taste. Many patients have compared the smell to kitty litter or cat pee. See patient comments as to what was happening to them on this blog post.

At the time of this writing, not ONE pharmaceutical has done a thing to return these NDT’s to their former, consistent and smooth excellence which once changed our lives, or even considered or admitted that their product was no more what it used to be…or cared. Said one patient in a group “They remind me of the three monkeys.”

It’s all about the money, not about you.

“But I feel good on the changed prescription NDT’s”…

Here are four things we’ve noticed when someone says that….

1) They are still on the former good NP Thyroid (at the time of this writing)

2) They do “feel better” on certain NDT brands which are proven to have gone south. But there’s a failure to understand that “feeling better” may be the result of an increase in adrenaline due to still being hypothyroid because of the changes to these brands. We have seen this a lot lately. And their labs (free T3 and free T4) reveal the truth i.e. if the free T3 is midrange (non-optimal) or lower, or the FT4 is low, yet one feels good, it’s usually the adrenaline release.

3) They are combining a low dose of NP Thyroid with higher doses of T3. They may not notice what’s been going on with others since their NP dose is so low, and their T3 is helping.

4) Or an unknown, since so many are not doing well. We need to continue figuring this out….

So what are our options now?

If like so many, you are having problems or never seeing a resolution of your hypothyroid state (like we used to on NDT), we have no choice but to change our meds….AGAIN. And remember, you still have to be optimal. Here are your options if you want to change:

  • Synthetic T3 with synthetic T4. Yes, they can work for many, but you still have to get optimal. So it’s not about a token small dose of T3 (like 5 mcg) that too many doctors will put you on, and leave you on. Doing the FT3 and FT4 is still very important. Note that one grain of NDT has approx. 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 (this was inadvertently backwards in those who get an email notification. Forgive me). So a switch to the two synthetics can be made based on that, and in a few weeks, retesting the free T3 and free T4. Also take the time in groups to ask others what T3 has been working for them, whether they are swallowing or chewing it up, etc. (For example, the Mayne version has been awful for many patients. So you have to decide if you want it for you. There are other brands.)
  • Armour Yes, it’s the ONLY one that may still work for some; others have had issues with it. But it’s worth a try, and be prepared that those “some” may need to add T3 to it and get optimal Also be prepared that also for “some” depending on where you live, it went way up in price compared to where it used to be. Sad.
  • Natural thyroid “supplements” like Thyrogold, Thyrovanz and others like them. And remember that even on these, you will have to be optimal, not just “on them”. NOTE: there are times that even these OTC natural thyroid supplements aren’t doing the job correctly. So it could be wise to keep T3 on hand if that happens to you.
  • Thai versions of NDT like Thyroid-S Yes, there are an awful lot of fillers, so check them out and decide. Thyroid-S is listed in blue about 1/5th of the way down. But Thyroid-S does work well. DO NOT POST A URL AS TO WHERE YOU GET IT.
  • Being on T3-only Yes it works well, but most need to multi-dose it at least three times a day, 3-4 hours a part, to counter the lack of T4 converting to T3 behind the scenes. And some add a small dose at bedtime.
  • Compounded Thyroid There do appear to a few compounding pharmacies who are using a perhaps good source of NDT. If you know of one and you are optimal on it, comment below.

Please use this information in working with your doctor if you can. Or find a better one to work with.

I, Janie Bowthorpe, am disgusted by this.

Disgusted that the last consistently excellent NDT by Acella also went down the drain as experienced and reported by a wide variety of patients.

Disgusted by the dismissals by pharmaceuticals when patients report all their returned symptoms and even new and awful symptoms.

Disgusted that they will simply say “we changed nothing” when clearly each NDT did change as reported by patients seeing a return of symptoms with changed tablets.

Disgusted that not even one pharm acknowledges something went wrong, and thus, no changes to the NDT.

Disgusted that we now have this problem on top of doctors who can’t see past their noses about the right use of the former NDT or T3 in the first place.

Disgusted that some facilities are even refusing to test the free T3 and free T4, which are VERY important in finding our right dose of whatever we are on. Or refusing to the test the reverse T3, which is also VERY important.

Disgusted that one pharmaceutical representative may have said that this is all just social media hysteria. Unbelievable.

Disgusted that those in Europe and elsewhere are under a medical system which makes it nearly impossible to get T3, or thinks a TSH up to 10 is fine and dandy.

Disgusted that too many of the over-60 wonderful patients can’t get US medicare to pay for NDT, to pay for T3, both which CHANGE LIVES.

Disgusted by the implication that our wonderful over-60 thyroid patients should be on only T4, or off needed thyroid meds.

I am totally and thoroughly disgusted.

But let’s not be silent about this!

Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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419 Responses to “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients”

  1. Lori

    I have been on NDT for over 40 years and I’d just like to say that I have been through many of these shortages or crisis, it’s never been a the end of NDT forever. It may take some time before the supply comes back and either a new NDT that is high quality and can be done sublingual will show up or they will fix one of the current brands. Unfortunately there is a swine fever that has caused a shortage of NDT.
    https://thecompounder.com/2019/05/06/african-swine-fever-hogs-and-thyroid/

    Reply
    • Rachel Hamlin

      I’m on a call with Acella now on hold trying to talk to their NP specialist. THe first line rep says no change was made when I said that was false she said the only change was in supplier, that the porcine thyroid comes from europe now and she speculated it was how they were raised but claimed that no filler etc had changed. Again using the “cosmetic” change line which I told her was false. In any case when I started crying about how this was going to ruin not only my life but my young kids. SO I got through to DAvid as some have mentioned and he gave me a case number but says it should be fine this new supplier was thoroughly vetted and claims that they’ll send me a mailer to send some pills back.
      In any case – if enough people call and go through starting a case file maybe they’ll start to take us seriously…….

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Let’s see, NP supposedly has a different supplier and no other change was made. Hmmm…we have NP that now smells like cat pee. We have NP that now tastes horrific. We have an NP that makes some people nauseated. We have an NP that causes some people to have burning down their throats or burning in their stomach. We have an NP that has made labs go south. We have an NP that seems to be causing the vast majority see a return of their hypothyroid symptoms….

        Also note that many, many have sent their pills back. And all they’ve gotten is silence…..

        Reply
  2. Bonnie Medd

    I’m currently on Tirosint-SOL and cytomel. I haven’t felt good since Naturthroid went south, Then NP.

    My question: is ANYONE optimal and doing great on Thyrovanz?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Get optimal on the tirosint and T3. Then you will feel good. Read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Bonnie Medd

        Just got my results back. Not sure what to do here. Yes, I’ve been under stress with the mast cell stuff, is this why my reverse T3 is so high? Any suggestions?

        Thyroid levels @ 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15mcg Cytomel
        12/5/19

        Free T4 is 1.67
        Range 0.76-1.70

        Free T3 is 3.6
        Range 1.9-3.9

        Reverse T3 is 22.8
        Range 9.0-27.0

        Reply
        • Rachel Hamlin

          some people just can’t metabolize synthetic hormones. I can’t and now I’,m having a hage panic b/c my kids are going to watch me slowly die a horrible death b/c I let those bastards take out my whole thyroid and I don’t know what to do! I can’t go back to lying on the couch after a few minutes of activity my little kids need me!! I’m so scared and mad..

          Reply
          • Janie Bowthorpe

            What about T3? Have you tried getting optimal on it? I did horrible on T4 alone, but I soared on the former good NDTs in spite to not converting the synthetic T4. Right now, the best options are:

            1) T4 with T3 and getting optimal
            2) Compounded NDT and getting optimal – they seem to have a good source of porcine powder
            3) Armour and getting optimal, and if someone can’t get there on it, they add T3 to it and get optimal
            4) T3-only, multi-dosed, and getting optimal

            https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

  3. Betty

    I think I may have an answer to the cat pee taste in the NP. I searched the internet and found out that buckwheat honey can sometimes have a cat pee taste for some people. I than went and found out that pigs can eat buckwheat. What if the ingredient that they are buying in Europe is from pigs that have eaten buckwheat? Just a thought.

    Reply
  4. Val Varela

    I am a Nurse Practitioner and have been prescribing all of the above mentioned thyroid preparations (except Canadian) for years. I have watched my patients labs as well as their symptoms go South for the last several years. We have used many different combinations and I am finding the same results that you have reported here. One thing that I would like to know about, is somewhere I heard that the NDT from China was coming from cloned pigs. Is there anyway to verify this information (misinformation)? Also, I see how dangerous this road is. We do need to gather together to stop this great threat to our health. Thank you for your Blog!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      It is extremely refreshing to have you post here. And yes, we are gathering. We have no choice when it’s the medical community, especially in Endocrinology, fails us. I will be posting more.

      Reply
  5. Betty White

    Have I got a problem. I was on NP and losing weight, but when the new batch came out it made me sick, itchy, and hair falling out. I changed to Nature throid and started to feel better and my hair has stopped falling out, but I cannot lose weight now. Any ideas? I can’t take armour and will not go back to NP as long as they are making it the same.

    Reply
  6. Annomaly

    When I got the news that I had Graves Disease, radiation was required for me. It was life threatening. It took 6 months of Synthroid poisoning to find your website and then my quest to find the right mix of Porcine medication began. Along with much reading and researching on my part, there were a lot of bumps along the way – and after much trial and error (and a dozen doctors and even more tests than I can count) I found the right doctor and the right medicine. WP was THE solution for me. By the time I felt great – it disappeared.

    Like you I was devastated to start back at GO to find a solution. I even went the compound route. It didn’t take long before I felt awful again – and demanded testing which showed my levels were very off.

    I took the initiative and contacted the compound pharma asking about the filler used – there are many different fillers which can impact absorption which I discovered in my research. I got educated on the different types (slow release capsules typically uses a type of cellulose that makes taking the medicine virtually worthless for me) and learned that you can request a different type of filler like a powered milk (which is bad for my lactose intolerance) or none at all. The idea that the filler was impacting me was news to me. No one told me I had an option to change them in my compounded medicine! So I had my medicine remade and went back for testing again months later, only to still have my numbers askew and feeling awful. I also learned that compounding medicines were NOT covered by my insurance 🙁

    I called the pharmacy again -and much to my surprise I learned that they had made my medicine with Synthetic T4 (Synthroid) because it seems the doctor had failed to notate PORCINE. Imagine my horror – at least I had an answer and fired my doctor.

    I asked the compounding pharmacy a lot of questions. What I also learned was that most of the Porcine Powder now used for compounding was being sourced from China – and tariffs and import fees were on the horizon ready to bring higher costs to the consumers.

    For me, a doctor switch was in order and with my new doc, a new medicine. We got me back to ‘optimal’ on NP Thyroid. To be honest, optimal or not, I learned that with each 3 month supply of medicine, blood work is in order to ensure that the latest ‘batch’ of medication isn’t negatively impacting me. For the first time in 5 years I have been consistently normal now for 1 consecutive year. I’m not thrilled about the extra cost of testing, but its a small price to pay compared to having bad medicine make me feel worse.

    I also learned (the hard way) not to combine ‘leftover’ medicine from a prior prescription lot with the newest prescription I receive. This means I can more easily identify what Lot of medication may be negatively impacting me should a switch of ingredients take place.

    Even more concerning now is the fact that the standards for the animals in other countries aren’t as stringent as they are in the US. A September 2019 CNN news article reported over 100 million pigs died of swine flu in China. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/business/china-pork-swine-fever-pigs/index.html

    This news can only mean that the future cost of Porcine based medicines will be fluctuating and may also be in short supply if the sourcing is coming from China.

    If I could buy a 1 year supply in bulk I would – that way I would be sure that I would have the same medicine from a Lot that works for me. Unfortunately that isn’t realistic under my medical insurance.

    Porcine based medicines are only as good as the base AND the FILLER- which are NOT required to be listed by the manufacturers in the ingredients list. When labs have a surplus of a filler used for a different medication they can finish it up by mixing it into our medication to help them save costs. This happens more frequently than anyone wants to admit.

    Asking ‘what has changed’ in my medicine – will get the answer ‘nothing’ and in fact its still porcine the medical ingredient- so that answer is technically correct. The reality is that more likely than not the FILLERS may have changed and with it our ability to absorb. No one is going to identify what FILLER was used because they aren’t required to. Its a guessing game at best.

    I have chosen to continue with NP Thyroid and testing every 3 months to spot any fluctuation in my numbers as early as I possibly can. My daily thyroid cocktail includes (every other day) 15mg or 20mg Cytomel, 75mg NP Thyroid, with Orthomolecular Adren-All and B-Complex, Viviscal Professional, 2000U D3, and every other day Iodine supplements.

    Being vigilant about our medicines and what is in them is the only way we can remain healthy. It seems more frequent testing can help us to identify when changes have occurred and minimize the impacts we may feel because of it. Never be afraid to ask questions at the pharmacy because mistakes happen all the time !

    Good luck to everyone in their quest for ‘optimal’ in 2020.

    a

    Reply
  7. Theresa

    HI Janie,

    I hope you had a good Thanksgiving! I’m reaching out to you because I want to make it my mission with your help to find an ethical pharmaceutical company that will manufacture a clean NDT that will not compromise on quality for the sake of greedy profiteering. The only NDT I can take is WP Thyroid and it today it is virtually worthless! It does nothing for me like the original brand. RLC Labs keeps saying they haven’t change the formulation but something has changed because our bodies do not lie. Furthermore, they are sourcing their NDT from China and who knows for sure how the NDT is being manufactured. Personally I don’t want to take any medications from China because there standards are not like they were in the US. Let me know your thoughts. I watched your video recently and you said you need our help so I am offering my help to do what we can to bring NDT back to the market without all the synthetic and toxic fillers and additives. – Theresa

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Theresa. Yes, every single pharmaceutical has said they changed nothing, which we all know is a ridiculous statement. Or then you have acella which only admits it’s using a European source, failing to mention all the other obvious changes that patients keenly see.

      Also we can’t definitively say that the thyroid powder is coming from China. Sure, we can state we wonder about it, but to state it as fact is not helpful.

      Another problem is supply of the porcine powder in the US. It appears to have been lost, which leaves you to wonder if any pharmaceutical would have the same problem of having to source it from out of the country.

      What I would like more than anything right now is to have a private conversation with an insider in the pharmaceutical industry as to what is going on. Someone speaking the dirty truth…

      Reply
      • Karen H.

        I checked with Armour last week and with RLC the week before and they both said all of their porcine thyroid is sourced from WITHIN the continental US for Armour and the continental US and Canada for RLC. Even Acella claims theirs come from Europe, not China. So I don’t think the China connection has been established.

        Reply
        • gina

          They are lying. There are no remaining NDT powder producers left in the U S. It is produced in China and imported by the U.S. They purchase it from the importer so they can make that claim but it doesn’t change the fact that it is a product of China. Ask for proof of where it is produced. Everyone has a right to know where the ingredients in their medicine comes from.

          Reply
          • Just Me

            I know this is frustrating, but we cannot say companies are lying about sourcing without proof. We are getting so much misinformation and rumors. Try to find proof. Hire a private investigator, contact an investigative reporter. Understand that people getting supplements from Thailand are probably getting NDT from China.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Just Me is right. I’m glad she beat me to the punch–I don’t always get back to posts quick enough. I don’t mind approving everyone’s frustrations, but we can’t make black and white statements that we can’t prove.

  8. Bonnie Medd

    Jamie, I may just be dense, but I cannot find where your post is that says what our alternatives are now. Can you let me know the link?

    I’m not sure if it’s all this change, but now it appears I’ve developed something called Mast Cell Activation Disease. Every single day I deal with welts all over my body. Burning, itching welts. Has this happened to anyone else? It’s put me in the hospital twice. This started just over a month ago. This is the worst I’ve ever been, even with thyroid cancer and wavering levels. This is debilitating.

    Right now I’m on 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15 mcg if cytomel. I feel as if I’m not even on thyroid medicine. I get tested on Monday.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      We all have to get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Bonnie Medd

        Haha. I skimmed through this (all my poor brain can handle right now) and completely missed the options now section. Duh. Thanks.

        Any idea on the Mast Cell thing? Apparently it’s another autoimmune thing. Is this something other people without thyroids deal with?

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Researchers do see a connection with mast cell syndrome and certain autoimmune diseases. But I don’t get the impression one has to have an autoimmune problem to have it. And the inappropriate release of mast cells has nothing to do with not having a thyroid. But I would do an internet search for triggers of the inappropriate release and see if you can avoid those triggers.

          Reply
        • RenegadeRN

          Bonnie, my mom and daughter both have mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS). No doctor could diagnose them as they have vastly different symptoms… but I stumbled onto a book written by the doc, considered to be the “godfather” of MCAS! Get “Never Bet Against Occam” off Amazon, written by Dr. Lawrence B. Afrin MD. It’s kinda dense, but worth it.

          My daughter and mom take 2 mast cell stabilizers daily, that are over the counter, works well! One is a product by Bluebonnet Labs called Super Quercetin, has Quercetin, Vitamin C and other stabilizers, and Zyrtec or Claritin which stabilizes another of the histamines.
          If these fail due to something really provoking those mast cells, (like eating leftover Thanksgiving ham), they take Benadryl as a “rescue” med. It has truly changed my adult daughter’s life! Hope that helps!

          Reply
  9. Nikkeia Hardman

    Great news!! I’ve tried all the Old and reformulated NDT and yep they all have gone south!! I have been without a thyroid for 13 years. I’m doing super on T.R by T man. I ordered it from Thailand and I didn’t need a Prescription. They come in 65 mcg and they taste very good (like papaya). I’ve been taking them for 3 months now and I love it!! No side effects and you get 2000 pills for $90. Give it a try!!!

    Reply
  10. Judih

    Good morning and GOOD NEWS for us NDT users!

    I found a compounding pharmacy; their 1gr. = 60 mg.

    https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy

    They are so nice to deal with and will get my Rx in 5-10 business days!

    There is always hope!

    Blessings,
    Judith

    Reply
  11. catherine

    I was previously on NP. I recently switched to compounded porcine powder. My SHBG has been steadily raising. It was 101 back in June, then 147 in September before switching to compounded and now 163. I do not know what to think? I am not going through menopause yes. I am 46 and hormone levels otherwise were ok.

    Why to women on T3/NDT/testosterone treatment tend to have high SHBG?

    Reply
  12. Leenis

    I’ll add my feedback on WP Thyroid to that of others who have found out that it doesn’t work the same any more. I’ll not bore you with the long saga of my thyroid journey. I had put my hopes on the WP Thyroid which had transformed my life before it disappeared from the market. My joy of being able to access it again has turned to huge disappointment instead.
    Thank you for running this website, Janie. It’s been very helpful to me. I had wondered if I was the only one who reacted badly to the new WP Thyroid…

    Reply
  13. Christa Fazzi

    Hello,
    I am curious what people have noticed with WP Thyroid recently. My husband’s last batch 3 months ago was somewhat smelly (kind of like the issues we had with the NP Thyroid before he switched back to WP) and NO specks. I picked up a batch today and now (just like the NP) it has specks in it but absolutely NO smell…….

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      It’s like all the American brands are using the same source…..

      By th way, are you sure they didn’t substitute NP for your WP? Pharmacies tend to do that….

      Reply
      • Christa Fazzi

        Hi Janie – No, they did not substitute with NP – it has the RLC labs imprinted on it. I found it weird that it did not smell though like the NP started to do and like the last batch of WP. I knew they have all been changing and he has been struggling so we were considering a switch to synthetic T3/T4, but then it took me by surprise that even after the change in the WP last year, (this year?) that is was only NOW that I was seeing specks. Admittedly I was hoping that it was a good sign only in that the last batch without specks a few months ago didn’t seem like he was taking anything! Sigh. Thank you for absolutely everything you do.

        Reply
  14. Theresa

    WP Thyroid used to work optimally but now after the reformulation it no longer works for me. Unfortunately, WP Thyroid was the only medication I could take because all the other NDTs contain synthetic fillers and caused even worse symptoms. I even worked with a compounding pharmacy to prepare a NDT formulation only to find out 3 months later it was generic synthetic T4 and T3 which smelled like the the real thing. I was deceived and you cannot trust PCCA who sets the standards. They are not transparent about what they formulate in their labs and they do not inform compounding pharmacies with the truth to educate the patient if you inquire. Every time I ask more and more questions I get more resistance. When I was on the compounding formula which I thought was 100% NDT powder in capsules I developed high blood pressure which I never had in my life plus a host of other symptoms. And now I’ve learned that our NDT formulations are sourced from China. We don’t even have a trustworthy manufacturer in America that manufactures clean NDT anymore. They sold out for big pharma and money and don’t give a squat about jeopardizing hypothyroid patients health. I think this is criminal and they get away with It. I no longer trust and rely on RLC Labs because they have never been transparent with what is going on behind the scenes. I’ve heard many patients say the new WP formulation does not work but RLC says they haven’t change a thing. We know better. Our symptoms don’t lie. I even tired T3 but this is also synthetic. We have been deceived and misled. I’ve tried bovine but this does not work the same and there is no consistency or brand you can trust. I guess what we can do as a patient group is maybe find a honest investor who would be willing to start a new company to manufacture clean NDT. At this point, I am at a lost. I recommend everyone research and educate themselves on China’s 2023 Intiatiave to be the number one supplier of pharmaceuticals.

    Reply
  15. Luis Castaño Sánchez

    Hello. Few days ago, I see your video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdTB5IRZhs ) and I’m spreading it on FB. But one friend of me (here in Spain) ask me one question: There is maybe one spanish version for better understanding? If not, it’s possible to make one? Thanks a lot for your work. Luis Castaño.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi there Luis. The Spanish translation was done on the 2012 edition. It shows here: https://laughinggrapepublishng.com It’s very expensive to do translations, so we’ll have to wait for awhile to see if there are enough funds from LGP to do another one. But right now, just the 2012 translation.

      Reply
      • Luis Castaño Sánchez

        Hi: Thanks for the quick answer but I think you misunderstood maybe my question. I have your book in Spanish and it was (and is) very very helpful, so thanks a lot. My question was about the video. Words in the video are in English. And I think it will be great making an spanish version (or maybe sbutitles). That’s my question. Best regards.

        Reply
  16. sam

    Hi
    I suspect that the powers that be read these forums and don’t want people to get better so have put pressure on the manufacturers to change the NDT products. Its nothing to do with profit as they will lose business if their products don’t work!
    Its more likely the drug industry as a whole that run the FDA and politicians that insisted on the changes.
    There needs to be an investigation as to who instigated these changes. Are there any whistleblowers out there?

    Reply
  17. Michaeline

    Is anyone using thyroid S from Thailand? It seems reasonable and easy to order over the internet.
    I would love to have it as a back up in case the desiccated compound I will be getting doesn’t work out. Thanks.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      A lot do and they like it.

      Reply
      • CHRISTIANNE Pereira Giesbrecht Chaves

        It seems Thyroid S is sold out. As well some others from the same manufacturer.

        Reply
    • Mimi

      I too would like to switch to Thiroid S. Would you mind posting where you ordered this from. My preliminary search showed 189.00 ?? Want to order from a reliable source

      Thank you

      (From Janie: Please only email Mimi. Sources should never be posted on a public site)

      Reply
    • Nikkeia Hardman

      Yes I take T.R by T man from Thailand and I feel great!! Been on it for 3 months now!!! I love it!!

      Reply
      • Lori

        That supplement has been out of stock for a long time, please be cautious of anyone trying to sell it.

        Reply
  18. Maria

    Hi, has anyone tried adding nutri meds or Thyrogold to their ndt and been successful? I’ve had trouble finding a good endo and the one I have now at least is willing to prescribe Armour but she keeps me at 2.25 grains because of my low tsh. My free t3’s and free t4’s are a little low and I definitely have hypo symptoms so I thought I might add in some otc thyroid meds to do the trick. Has anyone tried that combo?

    Reply
    • Criss

      I’m interested in hearing about Nutri-Meds.

      Reply
    • Lorie

      Nutrimeds is a good source but when I ordered it in the spring it was backordered and sometimes hard to get. It worked well. Almost too well as i had to back off due to dizziness. They make porcine and bovine.

      Reply
  19. Cherie Irwin

    Hi, another aspect to think about is not the processing of the NDT but that it is the pigs who actually make it- the raw product is actually pig thyroid glands ground up. I think there must of been big change in what the pigs are fed on, feed with more iodine, feed with other growth hormones, feed with huge amounts of vitamins, feed with some antibiotics, new vaccinations for pigs, the list goes on and on of the variables that could make the pig thyroids unhealthy and not as useable for humans with thyroid disease.

    Reply
    • Karen H.

      Thanks Cherie, this has occurred to me too, especially since Acella is now sourcing their product out of the US. In that respect, Naturethroid or Armour should be the best bets, but unfortunately they have changed too. I keep hoping RLC will figure things out and return with a product we can use again. They were by far the best NDT I have ever used in over 30 years of taking these drugs.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        RLC has always denied changes, and we are now approaching 1 1/2 years since it changed. Sadly there appears to be nothing in the works in changing the disaster they now have. Same with Erfa. Same with the makers of Armour who charge a very high amount. Same with Acella.

        Reply
      • Mimi

        I was told on 11/20 by Dave at Acella that they have switched their source of raw materials to source in China and that has been the “Only Change” however their Medical Affairs Department has now called me every day after the initial interview. I have not responded as I am seeking advice.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          And again towards Acella, what about the awful taste? That’s a change. What about the awful smell? That’s a change. What about the large body of people who are reporting a return of hypo? That’s a change. What about those who report burning down their esophagus, burning or nausea in their stomach? That’s a change.

          Reply
  20. Betty White

    Has anyone heard from Acella about NP. Last month I contacted them about it and they ask for a sample of my meds to test. So far i have not heard from any of them. I sent them an email last Friday and no one has contacted me.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      We have no proof that Acella is doing anything to fix the problem of their current pills.

      Reply
      • Venus Childress

        I spoke with David Margolis (sp?) @ Acella this week. He denied having any knowledge of this issue. He told me he would contact my pharmacy to arrange replacing my current scrip, but he never did. Additionally, he said there was no guarantee that the new bottle would be any better.
        I am with you Janie, disgusted.
        I don’t like to buy into conspiracy theories, but something isn’t right here. Why would every single manufacturer of NDT suddenly be providing a sub-par product?

        Reply
  21. Kathryn

    For anyone having issues with the fillers in NDT, you couls try taking a digestive supplement that contains cellulase. To some extent, it can help break down the fillers so your body can absorb more of the actual thyroid hormone. Not a perfect solution, but it can help keep you afloat while your figuring out what to do next.

    Reply
  22. Lisa M

    It’s so strange. Since the change in formulas I have been feeling over medicated, anxiety, teeth problems, sciatica, frequent breakouts of shingles, not sleeping well. I thought it was Armour so I switched back to NT and the same thing. So I cut my grain in half and actually feel better, but now my TSH is in the high range again. It went from 6 to 12 in 3 months. I don’t get it. I was doing so well on the old NT formula! I felt like a million bucks.

    Reply
    • Betty White

      Just wondering, are you talking about Naturethroid?

      Reply
    • Lori

      Sounds like what I had when I had a severe imbalance w/ symptoms of to much t3 most likely caused my adrenals raising the white flag. I found that when I was shaking at night Milk Thistle by Gaia worked wonders for shutting down a crash and stopping the shaking. Milk Thistle helps w/ Rt3. I found this useful only when I had crashes not as a regular part of my vitamin routine. It can’t be taken with in 4 hours of NDT or it will make it ineffective. Also one teaspoon of organic raw unrefined coconut oil 3 times per day does wonders for my thyroid, also a great oil to use for cooking to make sure soybean oil is avoided.

      Reply
  23. Michaeline

    Hi. Can anyone recommend a compounding pharmacy to compound desiccated thyroid?
    Has anyone used NPS pharmacy for compounding? I don’t have a thyroid so I can’t mess around with NP thyroid. I have about a months supply of the good NP that is working. Thank you in advance!

    Reply
    • Ellen

      The Village Green Apothecary in Bethesda, MD would be the pharmacy that I would contact. They have been compounding for over 30 years. Very helpful and ship anywhere. I would contact them. Website: https://www.myvillagegreen.com/compounding-pharmacy/

      Reply
      • Michaeline

        Thank you Ellen! Are you optimal on a compound thyroid there?

        Reply
        • Ellen

          I still have another month of the good NP left. My doctor wants me to try Armour but if that doesn’t work, I will be contacting The Village Green. They have been my pharmacy for nutritional needs for many years.

          Reply
      • Michaeline

        Ellen,

        I just called my village green pharmacy and they are no longer making compounded thyroid meds.

        Reply
    • Dorothy

      I looked around for compounded NDT. The source I used no longer compounds NDT because they can’t find an acceptable source of raw porcine powder. I can’t find a compounder that sources the powder from North America so I’m doing synthetic T4/T3 combo compounded med. I can control the fillers and ratio but time will tell if this works. I loved the old NDT products, and my antibodies disappeared.

      Reply
      • Kerry?

        Just curious–why would you compound T3 and T4 and not just take them separately? Doesn’t that have the potential to make them ineffective by adding fillers?

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          T4 and T3 as non-compounded tablets already have fillers. The only advantage of compounded is that you can choose your own fillers, such as olive oil or acidophilus.

          Another advantage is that the compounders have a source of porcine powder that is still working.

          But on the other side of the coin, some people think it’s an advantage with compounded that you can make it slow release. It’s not an advantage. T4 is already “slow releasing” by converting the T4 to T3 as the body needs it. Even if you feel you don’t convert T4 well, what patients have noticed is that slow-release of the T3 is very imperfect and inconsistent from day to day. Some have reported over the years feeling like it all runs out before the mid to late afternoon and they get hypo symptoms.

          All in all, having done what I do for 17 years now and observing patients, I have found it silly for me to pay for what has always been way more expensive plus it always bothered me what some (not all) patients were reporting about the imperfection of slow-release. Today though there is an advantage of compounders having a still-working source of NDT. For me, I would just request no slow-release, and still take it twice a day…

          Reply
  24. Betty

    What is everyone taking now that there are problems with NP. I went back to my old pills, but will be running out soon. I had problems with the new np like itching and heart palpatations. Is there a group on facebook that talks about this? I would like to have more conversation about what to do after the np mess.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      The only American-made NDT that may still work is Armour, but it’s iffy. Some may be doing ok on it, but others have reported they had to add T3 to it to get truly optimal. Optimal puts the free T3 at the top part of the range and a mid-range T4. And having optional frees is important so it doesn’t all backfire on you sooner or later. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optima

      Also be prepared that they made Armour very expensive.

      Other alternatives are getting optimal on the two synthetics.

      You are currently where it’s talked about the most. Look at all the comments.

      Reply
      • Betty White

        I would just like to see more answers to peoples posts. I do see some that talk about it, but more that are unanswered. I do see that you answer a lot of them and I am thankful for that. I was on armour for years, but a couple of years ago found out it was what was causing my painic attacks. I changed meds and it seemed within weeks the panic went away. Will never go back to armour and it cost so much now. I think I will try nature-throid again. I know it has its problems, but I cannot take this np again. I am also thinking about levo and asking the Doc to add a T3 to it. I am just lost.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Hi there Betty. It sounds like being confused and frustrated as to what to do is bigger than me not answering comments. There are a lot of answers here by me. 🙂 Other comments by people here are just that….comments that require no reply. 🙂

          I talked about what to do in a former blog post, i.e. alternatives. And the good news is that I’m compiling another blog post about it now. 🙂

          But Naturethroid is not one to go back to. It went horribly south as experienced by too many. Instead, you might want to go with T4 and T3 and get optimal. Even compounded NDT is an option, as their source of porcine powder is still a good one. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          Reply
          • Betty White

            So much to think about. I had so much trouble with synthroid and ones like them, but I may try them again and see about adding the cytomel to it. I just wished they would think about us and not about their own greed. I think it was more about money than anything else that made the makers of NP to go overseas for their main ingredient.

          • Greg

            Why is ThyroGold not even mentioned by you. Has it gone South too? Nobody takes it serious as an option?

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Greg, I mention Thyrogold a lot. But you have to be prepared that there are occasions that a particular bottle has weaker pills than other bottles. We have seen this occasionally as reflected by someone’s labs and symptoms. Might be wise to have T3 on hand if one of these bottles gets into your hands.

  25. Kaleb's Mom

    My son is having issues like Ros….Free T4 is .86, Free T3 is 3.4, TSH is 0.214 and yes, he’s been taking biotin for hair loss. Should he quit that? How do I get this kid optimal again? Anxiety levels are climbing, too, poor kid.

    Long story short..Armor for 4 yrs., didn’t work. In 2016, tested for cushings..negative, BUT new endo put him on WP which we noticed big changes, so while trying to get optimal, then the shortage hit. He began NP..it was great..was optimal by Dec. 2018. Began weight loss program in Jan. 2019, dropped 50 lbs. THEN in Aug 2019, noticed hypo symptoms coming back. Changed back to WP in Sept/Oct. after finding a pharm that had it. Wasn’t feeling any better. Former doc put him on Naturethroid after labs above-doc likes Naturethroid, but we told him that many were having issues with NDT. Normally, doc runs RT3, Ferritin, Iron, Vit. D, but it hasn’t showed up and I just emailed doc today to ask if we’re still waiting on labs or if he ran them at all.

    Reply
  26. Ros

    If I hadn’t found this I wouldn’t have believed it. I hadn’t noticed any change as I am usually asymptomatic on Naturethroid , however my last lot of bloods are bizarre. My FT4 is unbelievably low and my FT3 is over the top. Am I running on adrenaline? I don’t know- I feel very calm. Have started alternating NDT with synthetic T4 alternate days to see what happens. Don’t know whether this is good or not. Have read your choices above with interest.
    Ros

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      First, have you been taking biotin? Biotin can do that.

      If not, everything is bizarre now with the American-made NDT’s in one degree or another. But usually, with results like that, it can be revealing a cortisol problem.

      Finally, it’s not T4 you should have added. It’s T3.

      Reply
      • ros

        No Biotin. Reluctant to take T3 ( not that I have any) when I am already over the top. My pulse was higher than normal but has come down to near normal now that I have taken T4 and no NDT. Will look into the synthetic T3 to add to synthetic T4 as an option.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          What I didn’t say is that a high free T3 like that can be about this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling. That’s more about testing and treating an adrenal problem.

          Reply
          • ros

            Thanks Janie, I have read through the information which was most useful and I will be taking steps to test and correct appropriately.

        • Angie F.

          Ros..I had the same phenomena in the ER…2 hours or so after taking my evening meds..with high BP and high HR…inCREDibly high FT3 and bottomed out T4…I don’t think that was pooling..I think it was reflective of what is in the meds..I have one theory that we’re either no longer getting porcine a/o synthetics along with it, primarily T3..What makes me think so are those labs (previous day am prior to taking meds looked a little better with LOWER T4 and T3, however) and the recent T3 shortage…I said this on another thread..it’s as if there’s a sudden T3 dump (lasts about an hour to hour and a half for me) and then lower Frees…It’s as if I need, as Janie said, more T3 (and in my case T4), but a smoother, more prolongated delivery as I had on the old formulas. Something’s up..for darn sure.

          Reply
  27. Michelle Sarchiapone

    Hi Janie! So after the NP fiasco, I switched over to a old batch of WP thyroid, a 3 month supply. Labs were optimal. I felt great. I am running out now so I am doing a experiment and mixing in the new WP with the old and retesting labs in 2 weeks to see what happens. I am three days in and its not looking good as I am already tired with a slight sore throat in the morning but we will see. One question: would it be possible to test in a week? Or do you think two weeks is necessary? My ND says two weeks when switching meds, but conceivably this is the same med so I should just stay stable which is why I thought 1 week. Thoughts? I will post labs when I get them.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Just me, but I personally wouldn’t do that. Mixing bad with good, to me, is still going to contribute to inferior results, even if less inferior than WP alone. But if you want to continue, and if it’s a similar amount to what you used to be on and had optimal frees before, I personally wouldn’t wait two weeks for testing since you are already feeling bad. And whatever your labs are, they will probably be even worse in a few more weeks, sadly. 🙁

      Reply
  28. Sandy

    Janie, do you have a copy of the Opitmal Lab Values document with a white background? I have the one with the blue background & would like to write on it, but it’s not possible since the background is dark when printed. Thank you.

    Reply
  29. Jean

    I decided to go to a compound pharmacy. Good News! i feel better, but I only took 1 pill so far.
    The thing with compound pharmacies based on my experience is that many of them have the attitude issue on synthetic vs. dessicated thyroid. For some reason, many, many doctors, nurses, pharmacists all agree that synthetic is the better choice and the most popular choice.

    However, as we all know, we do not agree with that!!! If any of you have tried the compound route, beware that some pharmacists lie about what you are getting, which means, you don’t really know what your taking! Ugh. I did that with a pharmacist years ago. He gave me dessicated thyroid the first couple of months, and then switched it to synthetic and lied! I told him he wasn’t giving me the same medication, and finally, as we were going on and on with each other, he admitted he changed it to synthetic. So be careful where you go if you do go this route. Luckily, I found a pharmacist that carries both with absolutely no problem. Also, he gave me a choice on the filler! No more microcrystalline cellulose! I went with beet powder. That means no more oxidative stress! I wish you all good luck in finding what I found. I just hope this is going to be a regular process. We deserve to have what we absolutely need!! I’m sure you all agree after all we have been thru! I WISH YOU ALL GOOD LUCK!

    Reply
    • Julia F.

      HI! Would you mind sharing what compounding pharmacy you use? I’m having trouble finding a good one and I believe they can usually send it anywhere. Thanks so much!

      Reply
    • Julia F.

      Hi! I was wondering if there is a page or list somewhere of good compounding pharmacies with effective sources of either natural desiccated or synthetic t4/t3? I would pay any price for either synthetic or desiccated at this point if it’s effective. It seems like there’s even a difference between the synthetic versions at different compounding pharmacies although idk if that’s just my imagination. Since they can usually ship it out, I would love to find a good compounder! Also….I know cellulose is a no no but in terms of all the other options for the additives they can use, are they all equally optimal? (i.e., vitamin C, beet powder, ginger, etc.) It seems like I can’t absorb anything.

      Also this is some total last ditch advise but I’ve been experimenting with squeezing lemon in my water when I take my meds because I think thyroid hormones absorb best in more acidic environments, and it seems to help. It’s cheap so might be worth experimenting if you’re super duper desperate like me.

      Reply
  30. Laura

    Janie, I have had long term issues with thyroid. I went from having a doctor 15 years ago that went by how I felt, not just the numbers and I was on the good Armour Thyroid. Then after breast cancer, we moved and I had to rely on regular doctors and endocrinologists for help, they were NO help. I have been suffering for years because they all want me on Levrooxine T4. I have been to 3 doctors and 1 Endo in the last 2 years. All are ignoring my issues. The first doctor asked “ME” should I raise or lower your meds after getting tested???!!!! The next doctor gave me antidepressants that did not work, the 3rd try they wanted $400 for a scrip! Which was making me so dizzy I could not function. Their answer to this was to stay on the meds, if I need to go to the ER to let them know. I went off all antidepressants cold turkey I was so mad. Current Doctor…….We have had to deal with possible recurring Breast Cancer, my frozen shoulder (which I found out can be thyroid related) and now my back. I have asked for a lot of blood work to be done, I am determined to figure out whyyyy I am so tired allll the time, not to mention a list of symptoms. In my request I asked for TSH, Free T3, Free T4, reverse T3, those are all I personally know of. I got my labs back and they only tested the TSH!!!! I asked why. This was her response: Hello Laura, T3 and T4 are reflexly checked by the lab if the TSH is abnormal but in this case your TSH is normal. Also in regards to your adrenal question earlier, your cortisol is normal so no further adrenal labs are reflexed because cortisol would have to be abnormal if you had any adrenal abnormality. I hope this helps clarify things. Do not hesitate to let me know if you have further questions.
    I’m at my end of my rope. I don’t know where to go for proper help. I have to go to someone that will take Medicare, I cannot pay out of pocket. I ordered your book at 4am this morning, as I could not sleep and started reading everything I could. I know there are many in my same position. If there is any advice you can give me I would be totally appreciative.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi. I’m sorry what you been through.

      And now it’s going to be important to work really hard to find a better doctor. For one, you can start calling pharmacies from the closest to the farthest away, and ask the name of a doctor that has been prescribing T3.

      I don’t know where you live, but you could also ask in groups.

      Third, there are all sorts of doctor lists out there for thyroid. So do a Google search for thyroid doctors, then read the reviews very carefully. That’s because some people allow someone to post a doctor they just “liked”, and it doesn’t mean they prescribed T3. So look closely.

      Reply
      • Laura

        Janie, thank you so much for replying! You just gave me information I would have never thought of. This gives me hope……I have not had hope in yearssssss. I will do everything you suggested. THANK YOU!!! I am 67 years old and live in California near Modesto (hopefully not for long LOL). My husband and I have been on the Keto diet for 7 weeks now to learn how to eat healthier and I need to lose at least 50 pounds or more. Today I have lost 14. It’s a start but a long way to go. I want to get off blood pressure meds and hopefully not be in as much pain with my back (I have osteopenia and frozen shoulder (which is also related to thyroid). I really need to feel healthier and out of this thyroid funk. Again thank you for your suggestions!!

        Reply
  31. housemaid

    Janie, I made a comment on the thread “Uh,oh…..we need to talk about NP Thyroid” and it never appeared. In fact, there have been no comments at all on that thread since Oct. 25th, and it had over 1000 comments. I kept looking on there every day for a new comment and wondered, “Is Janie sick or something?” Then I found this thread and am glad to know you are OK. But maybe the comments on that thread have gone into Spam?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, I occasionally find that a legit comment was lingering in spam. If I see them, I approve them out of spam. They are hard to catch as sometimes there’s hundreds of legit spam….then other times would might be a few, which makes a legit comment stand out.

      Reply
      • housemaid

        I think I found out what happened, Janie, and it is my fault. I saw all the comments on that thread since Oct. 25th on my husband’s computer downstairs today. Then I went upstairs to my computer and none of the more recent comments were showing. I then realized I needed to delete my history because my Lenovo has been showing me the same cache of that page for 2 weeks. I never had a computer that did that before. Sorry!

        Reply
  32. Duane

    Any Dr recommendations for the center to west part of PA?

    Reply
  33. Debbie Shavitz

    This new formulation stuff now makes sense. . I have been on Nature Thyroid for 25 years ish. I am 68, good shape, lots of exercise and energy level just okay. I moved from Nature Thyroid to NP Thyroid about a year ago. I was doing fine on 2 60 mg tablets. However, my TSH got extremely low, so my doctor was worried because I already have Ostepenia. She moved me down to 1 1/2 pills and now after a blood test with very low TSH, she wants me to go down to 1 pill, 60 mg. My eyes will close in the afternoons at my computer. Other than that, I have okay energy to do my biking, hiking etc. But I am getting rapid heart beats and more dizziness. My blood tests were: 11/19/2018 TSH 4.58 (ref .40-4.5); free T4 .8 (ref .8- 1.8); Free T3 2.3 (refer 2.3-4.2) ; T3 REverse 10 (ref 8-25). I think this was when I switched off of Nature Thyroid to NP.

    Lab test were now done at Labcorp instead of Quest: (so ref ranges same for next two)
    ON 6/12/2019 TSH .006 (ref .45 to 4.5); Free T4 1.26 (ref .82- 1.77); Reverse T3 20 (ref 9.2-24.1) and Free T3 3.1 (ref 2.0- 4.4)
    ON 9/27/2019 TSH .008 ; Free T4 1.17; Reverse T3 17.5; Free T3 3.3
    My doctor’s appointment is tomorrow 11/4, can you give me an idea of where I should go with this? I plan on bringing her the articles on the meaningless TSH

    Thanks! Debbie

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Your doctor is terrible, Debbie. It’s never ever ever about the very normal low TSH when one has T3 in their treatment. In fact, many patients have seen osteopenia REVERSE when they get optimal with their frees (which naturally lowers the TSH). https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Debra Shavitz

        Thanks for the quick response. My doctor is Chinese and very open about meds, so I will talk to her. I had convinced her to give me my 2 pill prescription anyway. So I will go back up to 1 1/2 or 2. But will the NP Thyroid work? I have started taking some Heme Iron, but the dizziness and racing heart may also be adrenals. Are you recommending any Adrenal Cortex supplement?

        Reply
      • Angie F.

        Hi Debbie…I want to weigh in on the NP and heart rate issues. While I also don’t think it’s necessarily about TSH, I have had the same thing on NP, with an ER trip in Oct and a cardio w/u today, and I’d urge caution with regard to raising it. I’m not so sure there isn’t a potency instability issue a/o contamination issue that we’re dealing with.

        Reply
    • Janet

      Debbie, my TSH has been almost zero for years. I just had a DEXA scan and am in normal range for bone density (I’m 65, no hormone replacement except 50 mg of pregnenolone per day) My doctor watches the free T4 snd T3 and vitamin D and ignores TSH.

      Reply
    • Amy

      Hi Debbie,

      I would suggest looking into your Osteopenia. I went through all of this a few years back pre menopausal and I am very fit/runner so my bone density should be great. I came up with Osteopenia in my hips and then the docs freaked out over my low TSH.
      I found; Dexa scans&results can have a significant error and the positioning of the hips is critical. You can be diagnosed with Osteopenia while having normal density for your age group. I also recall that estrogen depletion has a larger (negative) effect on bone density and low TSH due to thyroid meds is not the same as low TSH due to Graves disease. With that said being hypothyroid/low functioning does not replace bone cells at the proper rate and also nutrition absorption negatively impacts bone replacement. Likely more to this but I remember my docs eventually concurred with all of the above and I found the info/evidence using the internet, publications, studies etc.
      Long story short my docs freaked out over nothing, messed with my medication, made me sick and as biochemist I did my own research and have done lab testing for decades so I am familiar with testing limitations etc. I paid for a second Dexa test and voila…I have normal bone density. My docs conceded as much as their ego(s) would allow and it was clear they started the whole mess based on faulty perception and no facts.
      Since then I do not allow them to run the TSH test at all, they can only run free’s etc. My situation may not apply to yours of course but I just wanted to share as I got pretty upset back then only to find it was over nothing.

      Reply
  34. Dorothy

    I took my NP 2 grain pills to the pharmacy to compare their new stock (I gobbled up their previous supply when I read reports of problems here). Here’s what happened:

    Their pills didn’t have a smell which surprised the pharmacist (my pills had that familiar smell we all know). I was unable to sit them side by side for size comparison but they were lighter in color. Pharmacist said that the pills darken when they’ve been exposed to air. (My WP thyroid pills used to do this and RLC said it was normal, no need to have a desiccant pack, and that potency wasn’t effected.) Pharmacist said I needed to keep a desiccant in my pill bottle and gave me the extra one from their bottle. She said it would keep the pills stable and to also avoid keeping them near any moisture source (like bathroom). I smelled my bottle of pills the next day and guess what? Absolutely no smell! This was the same bottle of pills that had smelled the previous day. I smelled the desiccant pack and there was a slight chemical smell.

    Reply
  35. Cathy

    I just ordered your new book, Janie. I’m 60 now and a year ago was prescribed 15 mcg of compounded T3 twice a day. It’s addressed a lifetime of hypoglycemia but I’m still struggling in many other ways. Without it, I’ve never seen my Free T3 over 2.8 and I haven’t seen a TSH over 2 since 2008. I don’t have elevated antibodies or reverse T3 and taking T4 doesn’t help so it seems I have a conversion issue. On this dose, my free T3 has ranged between 2.9 and 3.4 and I’ve never felt over stimulated and continue to struggle on several fronts as I said. Do you think it might be worthwhile to try some dosage of cytomel 3-4 times/day or a lower but more frequent dose of the compounded T3? I see my ND this week and we are looking into underlying causes but meanwhile I can’t help but wonder if I am still undertreated.

    Reply
  36. Amy

    I am back on a new batch of Nature-throid and feeling much better. My edema is gone and lost a couple of pounds, no more face puff etc. Labs improving and will test again. Take with a grain of salt but the stories “match” so I thought I would share.
    I spoke to a couple of people in the pharm/manufacturing industry who said Nature-throid formulation is the same since 2010 (including manufacturing process). They lost their supplier virtually overnight due to the “other” big manufacturer trying to drive then out of business. As I was told Nature-throid and Armour only source from the US and/or Canada and the struggle for Nature-throid was to find an alternate supplier, meet specs etc. I was also told there has never been a raw product shortage in the US/Canada. Another tid bit was (most) NDT is stable/full potency for about 2 yrs assuming it is not exposed to heat etc. Nature-throid is guaranteed full potency for 3 yrs and WP for 2 yrs. I would assume your intel is better than mine – does this information sound valid?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      There’s always a possibility that RLC will quietly change it back. But at the same time, we see people who say they feel good on it, and their labs aren’t optimal. So they are destined to see it all backfire, sooner or later, due to still not being on a replacement dose–the dose the body says it needs over time. And we see people having problems getting those frees optimal on Naturethroid since it changed. So do test your frees based on what is here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal BOTH the frees. And see if you are or can get optimal. And let us know.

      Reply
    • Karen H.

      Thanks Amy! This is the most hopeful post I’ve seen in months. I felt my absolute best on Naturethroid and my labs were optimal. I’m hoping Nauturethroid has figured out what was causing the problems and has corrected for this. It would be so great to be able to switch back to them. The US sourcing is an additional plus.

      Reply
    • gina

      There is no place to “source” it from in the U.S. anymore… The U.S. gets it from China.

      Reply
      • Just Me

        @gina,
        Proof please? Fear mongering with people who already don’t feel well isn’t a good idea.

        Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Gina, while it is true that the main US facility that once sourced pig thyroid powder to pharmaceuticals stopped doing so, there is no proof that all the pharmaceuticals are getting it from China. So not a wise statement.

        Reply
  37. Macie

    I started to get the negative effects from the change to NP thyroid. How do convert synthetic T4 and T3? What is 1 grain of NP equivalent to in synthetic T4 and T3? I know this is a starting point for the new medication and I will continue to adjust to feel better.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 per grain.

      Reply
      • jose

        does it have t1,t2,and calcitonin in addition to t3and tt4?

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Synthetic T3 is just T3. Synthetic T4 is just T4..T3 can convert to T2 and T1. Calcitonin can be prescribed.

          Reply
          • Andrea

            Before I started with 2 Grain of Acella and felt wonderful for some years, I took 75mcg T4. I am now thinking to go back on synthetics. If I do the calculation for 2 Grain Acella like it is written on the bottle, it would be 76mcg T4 and 18mcg T3. This is much higher than 75mcg T4. Would you recommend to start slightly lower or do people feel good by taking exactely the same amount of sinthetics as is described on the Acella bottle? thanks so much for replying!

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            It’s not necessarily “higher” though. It just means that you’d be getting direct T3 in the mix instead of solely depending on conversion of T4 to T3. But yes, I do wonder if it’s wiser to start a little lower, just in case. After a few weeks, we then test our frees. We are seeking what is on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

  38. Jeanne

    My pharmacist has discovered that putting a desiccant pack in the bottle cuts the smell! It is quite tolerable and so far I haven’t noticed a change in weight or energy… but I definitely have the new pills… and take 3-1/2 grains daily.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Keep us informed as sadly, many have reported a return of hypothyroid and a change in their frees. We’ll hope for you.

      Reply
      • Jeanne

        Thanks Janie! … and for all that you do and facilitate!

        Reply
      • Dr. Jim Pugh

        My daughter, 50 years old, Hashimotos symptoms are overwhelming ; she feels she wants to die it’s so bad. We are waiting for the lab results. Her previous results indicated Hashimotos. Found a applied kinesiologist who my son has been treated for forty years.
        He seems profoundly adept in hypothyroidism.. your thought? After reading your books,I’m totally impressed. My daughters illness is dire.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          I have rarely heard of a doctor who is knowledgeable enough about all this. But that doesn’t mean you couldn’t try.

          Can you teach her/guide her what is in the updated revision STTM book and the book called Hashimoto’s: Taming the Beast? Tell her it’s all VERY treatable and there’s no need to die? Because it really is very treatable.

          Can she do a coaching call with me? https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/coaching-call

          Reply
    • Alex

      Jeanne, could you post the batch number and expiration date of the pills you are taking now, please. Thank you!

      Reply
      • Jeanne

        Alex, my 90 mg tablets have a lot # M331G19-5
        There is also something called a S/N- 524777467866
        And a GTIN #- 00342192331013

        Hope that helps, I am not sure what those last 2 numbers represent or if that is relevant.

        Update on status:
        The only difference in my body I am noticing is a slight thinning of my hair at the crown. My hair is very responsive to stress and not sure if this is work stress or change in pills !

        Reply
  39. Janet

    For those who need salivary cortisol testing, Mayo Medical Labs has it on their test menu. You can take the sample any time of day…the doctor just needs to write a separate order for each one if you want to get several readings in 24 hours. My insurance won’t cover most labs that offer the saliva testing. But this can be done through any hospital outpatient lab so it will be covered. You just need to get the collection tubes from them in advance.

    https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/Specimen/84225

    Reply
  40. Michelle L

    I only took 4 days with of the new NP thyroid and I was sick to my stomach, couldn’t eat anything but a few chips every day for about 2 weeks. I was nauseous and was having multiple panic attacks every day, I still can’t look at a monitor or TV screen of any sort without getting nauseous. I had just went to the Dr and gotten my 3 month supply and with no insurance I haven’t been able to go back. I am taking L-Tyrosine and have been for probably 2 or 3 weeks now and even though I still don’t feel like I did when I was taking the old NP, one 90 and one 15, still a little tired occasionally, I oddly feel a little better than then as I’m having much less anxiety and panic attacks than I used to when I was. I’m only taking 500mg once a day right now as I have other health issues that I’m making sure isnt affected by it.Has anyone else tried taking L-Tyrosine supplements instead of using medications?

    Reply
  41. Michelle

    Morning 😀
    I’m stumped!! Been on Armour (Forrest) for about 6 years now after failing miserably on levothyroxin. Had no problems at all, changed my life in fact….I take one grain in the morning and one and a half at night. My recent lab test TSH 0.01 T4 24 and T3 7. This is normal for me and been consistent during this time. Lately I’ve got really bad itching Arms, back neck and head, my sleeping not brilliant (that could be a riggily hubby tho) no other symptoms at all. Endocrinologist says it’s the menopause but I’m not convinced. My skin is clear no dry patches or anything on the surface it feels crawly and within its driving me crazy!!! I’ve dropped 1/2 grain (since last labs) at night in case over medicated but no change. Just been reading about all the changes on here…shocking!!! Wondering if anyone else has just itching symptoms. Thank you
    Ps I have no thyroid function due to RAI

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Can you provide the results with ranges? And confirm that those are the frees…

      Reply
    • Greg

      Michelle,

      I’ve taken both L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine in various strengths throughout the years. I had a conversation with my MD about a month ago on dosages for both. We discussed our experiences, and concluded that taking large amounts in excess of 50 mg, orally on an empty stomach or sublingually, could provoke extreme anxiety, possibly by disrupting the dopamine receptor sights. The L-Tyrosine may be, in great part, provoking your anxiety. Hope you’re feeling better soon.

      Reply
    • Danielle

      Yes, I’ve been itchy-crawly too!! It’s recent, began after I started another bottle of WP, maybe a couple weeks ago. Driving me nuts!

      Reply
    • Jenny Karsen

      I’ve been taking my new bottle of NP Thyroid for about 3 weeks. I have never been so itchy and wheezy in my life. It’s scary- the wheezing. I thought it was from the fall rag weed and walks with my horse. But, I’ve experimented with not taking my NP meds and I get better, with the exception of brain fog. It’s getting worse though today. I literally itched my head, neck, arms non-stop for 45 minutes. And there’s this itch in my ears and throat. Oh, and suddenly when I eat certain foods, my lips start itching like I’m suddenly allergic to it. I go back to my doctor Monday. I’m not sure what to push for, but I’m leaning toward synthetics.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Your alternatives:

        1) Synthetic T3 with Synthetic T4 and getting optimal
        2) T3-only multi-dosed 3 times a day, approx 4 hours apart. Some take a small amount at bedtime. Get optimal.
        3) Compounded thyroid meds, either T4/T3 or their NDT powder, and get optimal.
        4) Natural thyroid supplements, but get optimal.

        https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

        Reply
  42. Russ

    So, I’ve switched to a compounded bio-identical T3/T4 med. last week. It’s a capsule, not a pill.
    Has anyone else switched? Is your new compounded medicine a pill or a capsule?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Compounded is what they put in a capsule, yes.

      Reply
    • Gina

      Russ, You started the Duck feather/hair hormone? Please keep us updated on how you feel. I don’t suppose the pharmacy shared anyone elses results with you?

      Reply
      • Russ

        Hi Gina,
        I’ve been on the compounded T4/T3 for almost 2 weeks and feeling much better than when I was on the new NP Thyroid. Not optimal but doing pretty good. I wake up at 4:00 am and have energy to go all day. And have lost 2.5lbs of the 7lbs that I gained while on NP.
        I won’t get labs for several more weeks.
        No, the Pharmacy didn’t share results with me.
        Thank you for asking.

        Reply
  43. Loretta

    I have been so upset with what is happening with NDT. I got my labs back when I was on the batch and – TSH was 0.63, free T4 is 0.82 and free T3 is 3.5. I just started taking a compounded form so I’m not sure what will occur. Have anyone of you experienced dizziness/vertigo? Could it be that the new batch (bad batch from this summer) I was taking didn’t have the medicine I needed? Could low T4 be the cause? I’m so discouraged.

    Reply
    • Rhonda Braun

      I read the comment from Loretta about being dizzy. I have my meds compounded T3 30%/T4 100%. My last labs were: (T4 6.4) (T3 Free 4.1) (T3 Reverse 13.5) (THS 5.780). I am feeling dizzy too. I can’t understand why I have this dizzy feeling everyday? Any thoughts?

      Reply
  44. Melissa

    Anyone with no thyroid take just T3?

    Reply
    • Tracy

      I have been on cytomel only for 2 months now. I am having to heal my adrenals along with juggling finding my optimal . I found an APRN that seems to be open to look at some of the information Janie has brought to light. I had been on naturethroid and was doing great until they changed it. My APRN tried a compounded version of T4 and T3. I had severe heart palpitations and was severely hypo. 3 days after being on T3 only the heart palps stopped. My T3 free was 6.0. She lowered my dosage and now it’s at 4. My reverse T3 was never returned to me by DLO labs either blood draw. She’s looking into it. I’m starting to gradually feel a little better. I’m on supplements and adaptogens I feel are helping. It’s not a quick fix but I at least have hope now.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Your high free T3 could very well be associated with that adrenal problem. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling

        Have you done the 24-hour adrenal saliva test so you’ll know exactly what’s wrong? It’s important to know in order to treat it correctly. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol. There’s even a link on the former page to order a saliva test. Adaptogens and supplements won’t be enough if you have several low cortisol in a row

        If cortisol is low, you’ll need to be on cortisol supplementation. Why? Because you can’t heal your adrenals until you get out of your hypothyroid state. And T3 doesn’t get to the cells well without the right amount of cortisol to carry it to your cells.

        There’s more important details on all this in chapter 6 of the updated revision stop the thyroid madness book. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/updated-revision-sttm-book

        Reply
  45. Janet

    Something that baffles me about all this is that Acella learned nothing from RLC’s disaster. They had just tooled up to meet a greater demand and probably invested a lot of money to do so. Then people bailed when NatureThroid quit working and many switched to NP Thyroid. So Acella did the same thing…increased manufacturing capability to meet the demand and made a big error in changing the product supplier without utilizing patients for feedback before making the switch. I’m sure their year-end reports are going to reflect the loss as well.

    Reply
  46. Katie Olson

    Is NDT relatively inexpensive with insurance? What about compounded? I am newly diagnosed and haven’t decided what I want to ask my naturopath for as far as brands. So, I’m curious – in an ideal world, what would most choose? Compounded? If so how much more $$ is it than NDT?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Katie, all American made NDTS are not what they used to be. Instead your better alternatives are as following:

      1. Synthetic T4 with synthetic T3 and getting optimal
      2. T3-only, multi-dosed and getting optimal
      3. Compounded NDT or compounded T4/T3 and getting optimal.

      https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Katie Olson

        In no particular order, or in that order? I’m reading some horror stories and prefer to avoid multiple changes in scripts if I can

        Reply
    • Ana

      Katie, I’ve been taking Armour since September and have been doing well on it. I wasn’t expecting it to be this good. It might be worth considering. My doctor said that quite a few of her patients have switched to Armour since last summer and most have had positive experiences on it. I’m going in for labs next week and will post my results and a more thorough evaluation then.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Armour is the only one that there is slight hope about. That doesn’t change that it is not the good NDT it used to be. All those who used to be on it before it changed have seen that. And also remember that people can “feel good” for awhile before they go south. It’s important with the changed armour that you attempt to get optimal… Or even see if you can get optimal without problems. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

        Reply
        • Ana

          Thanks, Janie! I’ll keep all of that in mind. I took Armour from 2004-2015, and the current version is definitely inferior to the versions I took in that time period. It’s hard to know for certain, but I do think the Armour I’m taking now is better than the 2015 one. My biggest frustration with Armour now is that I haven’t been able to get it to work sublingually. The labs next week should shed some more light on it, and I’ll share them when I get the results. Armour is still in the trial phase for me.

          Reply
        • Yvette

          I have been taking Armour for years and have also noticed a recent change. The smell is horrid, like cat pee as others have noted. I’m also unable to cut the pills in half like I used to, they disintegrate in my pull cutter. I have also noticed that hypo symptoms have returned. There’s something wrong with the medicine. I’m going to ask my doc if I can switch to a compounded sustained release formula of synthetic T4 and T3. Compounded is expensive though, about $95 a month and insurance won’t cover it.

          Reply
          • Ana

            Yvette, are you talking about Armour or NP Thyroid? The Armour tablets I got in September and 2 days ago are nearly odorless. They don’t have the usual porcine smell, and I have guessed that it might be due to what appears to be a slight coating. There’s no chemical or cat pee smell. The ones I have are also somewhat hard to break/cut in half and do not disintegrate. When did you get the batch you described? I’ve been doing well on the Armour and am apprehensive about going through another NDT failure.

    • Katie

      If just using T3 is an option, what difference does it make compared to T3 +T4? If T3 and T4 is better, what proportion of each?

      Reply
  47. Elizabeth Montgomery

    I picked up my new NP thyroid 90 mg late yesterday. It did not stink but was thicker and some brown specks. Took it at 5:25 a.m an usually I put it under my tongue. Horrible taste. So chewed it. Bad choice.then downed it with water. I began to feel nausea and sweating face and body,heart raced now 5:45 a.m. then burning in my mouth and throat and down. Still horrible taste in mouth. At 6 a.m. horrible taste almost gone.6:15 a strange feeling in my mouth and phlegm. 6:30 a.m. feeling weak all over my body and so sleepy. Drank more water. At 6:55 had green tea with sea salt to try get rid of horrible taste..7:15 a.m. symptoms gone. Lot number m331G19-2 expiration date 12/2020 not taking again.

    Reply
  48. Barbara

    I just received a supply of Nature-Throid (65 mg = 1 grain) and it says ingredients include 17 mg calcium. Why would they put that in? Doesn’t calcium need to be avoided? Made in USA, manufactured in Phoenix, AZ by RLC. Exp. 7/22.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes we do avoid calcium as it binds some of the thyroid hormones. Just no sure about that amount. We do know that naturethroid doesn’t work anymore. People are still having problems trying to be optimal on it.

      Reply
      • Janet

        When I was researching ingredients in the available synthetic T3 generics, all of them had calcium sulfate as the main filler. That’s probably why compounded works better for most people.

        Reply
  49. Sondra koehn

    What at home thyroid lab test do you recommend. Most comprehensive. Thanks

    Reply
  50. Darlene

    Has anyone tried switching to Nutri-med bovine glandular? If so, how much would one need to take to equal 60mg of NDT?

    Reply
  51. Diane Thomas

    Hi all. I have been on NP Thyroid since January 2015 and doing just fine until earlier this year. I am not sure when exactly but earlier this year I started experiencing a return of hypo symptoms, e.g. unexplained weight gain, lack of energy, chilliness even when in a warm room. I was only on 90 mg so I thought I was under medicated and that this was the infamous backfire. My labs at the end of September supported this interpretation.
    I convinced my doctor to raise my dose to 120 mg less than 6 weeks ago (finally!), but my symptoms got worse and my blood pressure went up from 120/73 on August 29th (when I got the new prescription), to a terrifying 149/83. This rise in blood pressure coincided exactly with this new prescription. My labs which were drawn at the end of Sept (after 4 weeks on the new refill) and revealed low t4 and t3, and high rt3. In addition, my iron labs show low iron and %sat, high ferritin and optimal tibc. My cortisol is completely normal. The inflammation this all points to has probably been around for awhile, given that I have felt hypo for some time. But the new prescription of NP Thyroid seems to have aggravated the situation.
    After about a week of taking the new dose I felt so terrible that I dropped back to 90 mg, but it didn’t help. I tried splitting the 90 mg dose between morning and afternoon. Didn’t help. I dropped back to 60, and of course, that didn’t help. I finally stopped taking the new refill altogether and returned to the remainder of a prescription filled in June. I started feeling better immediately. At last measure, my blood pressure was down to 130/75. The connection to the new refill of NP Thyroid is not tough to make.
    Now I need to decide on a substitute for NP Thyroid. So I am trying Thyrogold to see if it will work. The company said that the 150 mg size of Thyrogold has 50 mcg of T4 and 12.5 mcg of T3. So I am taking a capsule of Thyrogold in the morning and a 30 mg pill of my older refill of Np Thyroid in the afternoon, until they are gone. By that time I hope to have convinced my doc to prescribe a synthetic combination that includes T3. I am over 60 so I am expecting to have to do some persuading, in spite of the fact that I have been taking T3 for 5 years.
    Meantime I have started working on the inflammation by taking a closer look at my diet to make sure I am still as gluten dairy and soy free as possible, doing a course of Humaworm to eliminate stealthy pathogens and parasites, and taking appropriate anti-inflammatory supplements. After that, I will start working on improving my iron levels, and then maybe I can get optimal on whichever medication I take for my thyroid.

    Reply
    • Nicole

      You should address your iron immediately. It was super important to me and my ndt dosing. Once my sever anemia was treated and iron levers were more normal al lot of things fell into place easier.
      Just my experience 🥰🙏

      Reply
  52. Bonnie

    Holy crap! Doctor put me on t3 only. I’m dosing 3 times a day. Iron and cortisol are fine. I’ve been going up from 5-5-5mcgs and am currently up to 10-10-10mcg’s. I felt pretty good, energy and no weight gain. But then a week ago, all my symptoms came back!! Worst one being debilitating vertigo. Joint pain, not sleeping, anxiety, hair that tangles up, heart burn and so much more. I’m seriously at the end of my rope.

    Reply
  53. Angela Frye

    Here’s the petition to Acella. Please sign, share and otherwise circulate. We have had, to date, about 330 signatures on the RLC Petition. Obviously we have to do better if we want manufacturers to be responsive. https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/np-thyroid-by-acella

    Reply
  54. Angela Frye

    I’ve filled out my MedWatch FDA form which I hope everybody that has had a problem has taken the time and trouble to do. I’ll also put another petition up at MoveOn.org to Acella, which I also hope that everybody will take time to sign. I also had the idea of STTM a/o Shomon doing a webinar of sorts and asking the requisite representatives from each manufacturer to show up and answer questions and concerns from patients. I’ll certainly be present and accounted for.

    Reply
  55. Sheri

    I am in such a bind here and I don’t know what to do. I was on NatureThroid and Cytomel for a long time before all the changes and did well, When the new NT came out I notice a difference so I stockpiled the old NT from anywhere I could find and had enough to carry me through almost until WP was released. I started on that in December 2018. I seemed to do ok until around March of 2018. I find that WP causes awful muscle spasms, naturally those bring on feeling of panic because I’m so tense. I’m not sure if raising is going to help. I could never take NP or Armour due to fillers. We tried to switch to t4/43 synthetics but I seem to be allergic to Levothyroxine. We went through them all. I felt better as far as spasms but my throat swelled up and caused itching. We recently tried a compounded ndt that I was allergic to. I don’t understand. It was compounded with vitamin c in a veggie cap. Could you be allergic to the veggie cap? I’m not allergic to vitamin c. I hate to say but I wonder if they used synthetics. In any case, I’m horrified at at my wits end. I can take Cytomel but it’s a very rough feeling and I don’t like it. I can’t deal with this long term. I’m scared and tired and frustrated And don’t know what to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated. At this point I need to find something I can safely take before I even get back into being optimal. My dr is stumped as well. Has anyone been through this?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Sheryl, a few things to help: no one is allergic directly to T4. But they may be to the fillers used to make T4-only med if that’s what you mean? If so, that has to be frustrating for you.

      As far as Cytomel being a “rough feeling”…can you explain what you mean? Cytomel, which is T3, changes lives. But it’s important to get optimal on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And you multi-dose it, such as 8 am, noon, and 3-4 pm.

      Also, you have to have good levels of cortisol with the T3. Cortisol helps T3 get to the cells.

      Reply
      • Sheri

        Actually I found one, only one instance online of allergy to t4. Last one I tried was Tirosint. Same exact reaction of all the others. I don’t know what to say or do. With the Cytomel, it’s like a roller coaster. I feel ok, then tired and anxious and I feel like I got hit by a truck in the am. I actually dosed on the same schedule you just mentioned. It’s like Tylenol for a headache. It works, wears off and then you need to take more. It’s a lousy feeling. Are there any reputable compounding pharmacies for NDT out there?

        Reply
  56. Gabrielle Jones

    I started nature throid in July 2019,and within 1 month had gained 16 pounds! My endo added 5mcg of T3,which caused the weight gain to slow down,but I lost nothing. Desperate,I went back to thyrovanz which had worked extremely well for me. I have lost some of the weight. My doctor previously insisted that I stop taking it because tsh was 0.0016 and t4 high.

    Reply
  57. Angela Frye

    Reposting my reply to a comment to a STTM Facebook post. See below..

    I did occasionally, if I remember correctly, have palps (as did another person responding to your “new WP” blog) on NP…Did not have on the good N-T..So at that point, don’t think it was adrenals. However, with the roller coaster ride that dessicated has been since the Naturethroid debacle, and an inordinate amount of personal stress, adrenals may well be a factor now.

    Unlike most of the people reporting feeling hyPO..I’ve felt hyPER.. First order of business is a cardio workup. One thing that I do want to bring to attention, though, is the FDA drugmaker alert on Sichuan Friendly API. Westminster voluntarily recalled their product, but according to the FDA alert, “However, FDA confirmed Sichuan Friendly’s thyroid API remains in the U.S. supply chain. This API and the drug products made from it, present a safety risk to patients. Sichuan Friendly API may be repackaged and/or relabeled before it is further distributed, and not all of the repackaged/relabeled API identifies Sichuan Friendly as the original API manufacturer. Therefore, manufacturers and compounders who make levothyroxine and liothyronine drug products should contact their API supplier to verify the actual manufacturer of the thyroid API they received before using it. Sichuan Friendly’s products may be labeled as “Thyroid Powder” or “Thyroid Powder USP.”

    Here’s the link to the entire alert…https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-alerts-drug-makers-recall-porcine-thyroid-api-sichuan-friendly-pharmaceutical-co-limited-china

    If I read the alert correctly…the FDA alerted and advised manufacturers but did not force their hand on a recall, which Westminster voluntarily did. So..we don’t know where or in what meds this particular API ended up. Or what the response of the individual manufacturers was, IF they utilized API from this source, again with the exception of Westminster, who appeared to care enough about their patients to issue a recall. And, interestingly enough have not, at least as far as I know, put product back out on the market leading me to wonder whether there is even another API source.

    Trying to open the actual Import Alert, also link to follow, but the link is not responsiv Important note, only actually published 10/17, over a year after the initial alert to manufacturers. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia/importalert_189.html

    Reply
    • Jenny Graham

      Very interesting link to FDA article- maybe the issues we have encountered are because of an unstable and unregulated porcine powder- the FDA does not regulate NDT and the companies manufacturing them can do what they want without oversight.

      It does seem like there has been a concerted effort to discredit NDT for years preceding this crises and I’m in the Delaware/Pennsylvania area and you can’t see a Naturapath or holistic doctor on insurance here- I was able to find 1-3 doctors in New England area that were MDs -the trend is big pharma and an extremely regulated western approach- I’m noticing that doctors here with a more holistic approach have been shut down or moved to bigger gp practices- it’s too bad – because I do think the extremely medicalized approach to medicine makes people sicker.

      Reply
  58. Rebekah

    My pharmacist told me that the manufacturer of Armour purchased the wholesaler of the porcine thyroid that RLC used and quadrupled the price so as to take down RLC as a competitor. As a result, RLC was forced to find a new supplier. I have not verified any of that information, that’s just what my pharmacist told me.

    Reply
  59. Amy

    I cannot believe this is “medicine” in 2019 USA and elsewhere. I was diagnosed hypo a few years back and the ordeal of getting properly diagnosed and medicated has been one hurdle after another. I was in excellent health and went from extremely fit to a very very sick person. They ignored my probable hypo and assumed I had cancer! Why? Because I was “too thin” to be hypo so they dismissed the labs starting them in the face. If not for you/STTM and a naturopath I can’t even imagine how sick I would be today. I am so disgusted with Endo’s I will never go to one again. I have a connection to an area in Europe but sadly they seem very “old fashioned” re thyroid treatment. Over there in my area they view the clearly hypo specific symptoms as just “life” for a middle aged woman. Bull, when I am properly medicated I am out running again and back to my former active lifestyle and all of these odd symptoms resolve. I have gone to extremes to try and find a reliable source of meds not to mention a doctor.
    I wish I could do something but I can’t even get the manufacturers to respond. Understandable as I am just a person but STTM represents so many ….will they give you Janie/STTM a forum? The physicians that have contributed to your books? Is there a celebrity who is hypo and up for championing a cause?
    It seems that pressure and visibility is the only way to get some change. Squeaky wheel time. Fact is when NDT is optimal I feel NORMAL again. I don’t think that is too much to ask for. I’m frustrated and out of options but managing as I stockpiled meds but I will run out eventually and I am sick of stressing out every time I need to get new meds. This issue needs exposure and a “face”.
    Thanks for letting me vent.

    Reply
  60. Rachel

    Has anyone any current experience with Erfa? I went from Armour to Erfa in 2009 and was happy with it but switched to NP Thyroid before the 2014 reformulation.
    Thought I would try it as running out of options. My experience so far is reasonable but I am more tired than usual and find myself out of breath more easily which is new for me. Maybe I will up my dosage to from 120 to 150 to see if it removes this hypothyroid symptom.

    Has anyone any experience with current Erfa?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      There will always be someone who says they are doing fine on it, but the fact is that it changed and is not the consistently excellent product it used to be, nor has Erfa seemed to care. So the question is has anyone been able to get their frees optimal on it? It will backfire, if not.

      Reply
      • Tina

        My thyroid was removed in 2006. I live in Sweden where NDT is not approved so I had to take synthetic T4. I managed to get a license for Erfa Thyroid in 2013 and it changed my life. I am still doing well. Work full time and I do karate three times a week. My problem is that they are out of stock more often than not and I can’t just switch to another brand without a new license.

        Reply
        • Nadia

          I’m new to this site. I’ve been diagnosed with hypothyroidism since my early twenties and I’m 41 now. My endocrinologist put me on Erfa Thyroid (I’m in Canada) since 2015. My menstrual cycle has returned after being missing for 9 years and irregular for many years before Erfa) and my body much warmer. However I have been having heart palpitation since 2017 and feel very tired despite having a good blood work (numbers). The only thing was low iron and that has been treated too but I still feel tired. My endocrinologist says it is the adrenaline and he prescribed adrenaline suppressors (Modofinil?, sorry can’t see his correct spelling), I never purchase it because I’m afraid of the side-effect of Modofinil which is depression. Reading many comments about Erfa here makes me worry. I don’t know what else to do. I have been taking synthetics for years both T3 and T4 they work well for all my symptoms but my menstrual cycle never normalize with synthetics despite of monitoring it very carefully and diligently. If I stop Erfa and switch to synthetics then my menstrual cycle will be gone causing physical symptoms too. My endocrinologist told me because we are replacing what ought to be produced naturally by our thyroid it will never be the same like when our organ (thyroid) produces it. He then mention that he is working on a research on thyroid transplant within the next 2 years. Any advise for me anybody? I’d be more than happy to hear from you.

          Reply
          • Lori

            I don’t have any experience with the medications you are on but since it seems that many NDT brands are no longer high quality it may be time to consider holistic options for boosting your own thyroid system. One of the things I use in my routine is organic raw unrefined coconut oil in BPA free containers, one teaspoon at least three times per day. It can’t replace thyroid medication but I find it helpful in my holistic routine.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            It’s not about being prescribed an adrenaline suppressor. Jeez Endo’s can be clueless. Not is it about a transplant. Double jeez. It’s about being optimal (if you can on the changed Erfa) or switching back to both T4 and T3 and being optimal with both of them. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

  61. Judy

    I know this is of little comfort to all the patients taking NP Thyroid…my husband being one of them, but…I emailed Acella pharma. last week and got a call the next day from “Steve” at Acella. He asked many questions over the period of 10 minutes. He was typing the whole time …hopefully my answers to his questions. He asked me if I had any questions and of course I asked if they had any idea as to what’s going on. He said that they are looking at the change in supplier of the raw porcine. I know this is what you have heard also…my reason for writing is…everyone on NP with the return of symptoms, needs to email Acella with their contact info. so Steve can also contact them. Maybe with a boat load of complaints, they will get serious about this problem!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Anddddd they need to change the cat piss coating on the pills, they need to bring back the sweet taste, they need to bring it back to being softer…..all the many changes they don’t seem to want to talk about…

      Reply
      • Dedee

        Here’s the contact info I found on the Acella Pharmaceuticals website: https://www.acellapharma.com/contact/
        1-800-541-4802

        1880 McFarland Parkway Suite 110-B, Alpharetta, GA 30005
        Phone: 678.325.5189 Fax: 678.746.0717 Customer Care: 1.800.541.4802

        Judy, might you have the email for “Steve” at Acella?
        The company also posts a way to report problems to the FDA – I’m cynical about the FDA, but for what it’s worth:
        To report suspected adverse reactions, contact the FDA at (800) FDA-1088 or http://www.fda.gov/medwatch

        Reply
    • Tammy

      I sent Acella an email and I did get a response saying I’d be contacted, however that never happened

      Reply
  62. Gem

    Janie,
    So are you saying that good Naturethroid would have been dispensed before 2018? I have some from Jan. and August 2018, but don’t know how effective they are now. Is it safe to take any newly dispensed Naturethroid now? Are there any distinguishing characteristics (smell, color, etc. ) to look for to alert me not to use them?

    Reply
  63. Gem

    Janie,
    I am understanding that all the brands are affected. If so, then are there lot #’s for the Naturethroid? My pharmacy has some on the shelf but we don’t know whether it is good. On the bottles it does say “made in the usa.” Is there any way to tell if it is good?
    On the compounding issue, which pharmacies are providing this and where is their powder coming from?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      We didn’t collect lot numbers when they came back bad. But if you got yours before 2018, it may be the former good version of naturethroid.

      Reply
  64. Sabrina Schön

    Does anyone know if American Labs Inc. are still producing desiccated porcine thyroid glands?

    Reply
  65. Yesii

    So my dr prescribed compounded synthetic t3/t4 . I am getting it mailed from a compounding pharmacy in Florida to my state, Arizona. Doctor wants me to have labs again in 4 weeks. I cant take this inconsistency in the new NP, some days all I want to do is sleep and some days I’m having palpitations. Another reason, is who knows what they are putting in these tablets now that they are getting their source from Europe.

    Reply
    • Dedee

      Yesii, I’m sorry you are having these problems. I am just trying to figure mine out. It sounds like you have a good endocrinologist in AZ somewhere – so I’m wondering if you could please share his/her name? I’m having quite a challenge with finding a doctor who is open to working with patients rather than dictating his/her knowledge “at” a patient. Thank you.

      Reply
      • Yesi

        Hi,
        I fired my local endocrinologists, I found a Nurse Practioner who specializes in hormones (she does hormone pellets) but also sees patients for medical care, (through insurance.) This is my second time seeing her but she has been attentive so far and has worked with me. I’m not sure if I can name her practice, if Janie says it’s ok I will. Just so you know its not in the Phoenix area, I’m in a smaller town about 2.5 to 3 hours from Phoenix or Tucson.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          You can! 🙂

          Reply
          • Leann

            Thyroid cancer had me on Lev for 5 years of sloth-life. I just got STTM in the mail today. I was so excited as I started writing notes for my doctor only to find no available prescription desiccated thyroid available worthy. Janie, what are you hearing is the best in usa after these last few weeks of disappointment?

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            The bottom line is that none of them are the consistently good products they used to be. Yes, some patients will state “I feel good” on this one or that one. But they are never optimal (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal) which is the only way to maintain the feel goods, and some state they can’t even get there without problems. They are just not the same.

            The ONLY one we wonder if it could still work, even though it’s far inferior to the great NDT it used to be, is Armour. We’re waiting for someone to reveal their frees on it.

          • Dedee

            Thanks!

      • Yesi

        Aura Grace Medical Group
        Tammy Slade Florez N.P.
        Yuma,Az
        928 318 6910

        Reply
        • Dedee

          Thank you, Yesi.
          Wow, yes, Yuma would be a very long drive for me. I hope your situation gets better and I hope that this information will help someone in the Yuma, Arizona area. I have mapped the distance and it would take me over 3 hours to get to the edge of town.Darn.:(

          Reply
          • Yesi

            Yes, living in Yuma was why I thought I couldn’t find someone, but apparently even people in Phoenix or Tucson are having a hard time finding a good provider. 🙁

  66. Sue Prytherch

    Sorry.. this is a continuation from the above post…. And since apparently, the FDA doesn’t require for them to disclose where they get their raw materials, this is probably what is happening, and they can tell us that their “formula” has not changed. With the recent news of a deal made with China by President Trump’s administration, one of the news organizations mentioned hogs and what is going on with hogs in China. Apparently there has been swine flu there and great numbers of their hogs have been wiped out. Leaving the Chinese to import their pork from the United States recently, and from other countries as well. Possibly, hogs with swine flu have had their thyroids removed, and the Chinese have continued to sell this powder to our drug companies. I hope I do not sound like a crazy person, but my mom’s cat died from the pet food debacle of the Chinese pet food a few years back, so I am extremely skeptical of Chinese products, and with good reason. Even if swine flu in China is not a factor, I think we can all agree, that the quality control of items from China is questionable. So, what can we do, as thyroid patients.

    I am wondering if we can somehow contact a representative with the American Hog Farmers (I am not sure what this association might be called). I do not know how this would unfold, but certainly, their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China. Perhaps the American Hog farmers will be on our side and will yield a bigger voice somehow. I am sure we are perhaps just at the beginning of trying to figure this out, but perhaps that is a direction we can try.

    One last thought. Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway? It should not be anymore of a “drug” than caffeine, or any number of supplements you find in your local health food store. Perhaps we can partner with some American company who makes supplements and suggest to them that they start making a desiccated thyroid supplement only from American pig thyroid powder (and advertise it as such). I know that would be a huge project to start, but it is food for thought. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Maybe instead of trying to communicate with Drug companies who do whatever they want to, we could go to the source of American pig thyroid Powder and work at a new solution. Thanks for reading this. I welcome your thoughts.

    Reply
    • Gina

      Here’s the thing… If you dig a little you will find that all the desiccated thyroid coming out of China is from mixed animals, not specifically just porcine… I’m not sure, but maybe that is the problem with how it has been affecting so many people…anyway, until we test it ourselves we will never get a truthful answer. Is anyone ready to organize and chip in?

      Reply
    • Alex

      Sue Prytherch,

      As for you question: „Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway?“
      please read Janie‘s blog https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101/ and try to discovery the story of NDTs on the Internet.

      As for what you say: „…their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China“ , please read the statement from Acella: https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR2hp_ZnWxVsR0YgsgxRSsGxoCvvnLItvddkgA0CHp9cHg-vCUX8DTpeOUo

      Acella says: „The only difference is that the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient (API) is now sourced from an FDA-inspected facility in Europe instead of our former supplier in the U.S.“

      Acella doesn’t buy its API from China!

      Reply
      • Gina

        Alex, I am wondering how the FDA inspects a facility that is outside their US jurisdiction in Europe? Again, If they are not getting their powder from China they should not have any problem telling us the source because until they do, we have to assume they are getting it from the only known manufacturers like everyone else is… It could also be that Acella DOES buy their thyroid powder from Europe BUT that does not mean that it was produced in Europe. Europe could have, and most likely DID, buy it from China! Just like RLC Labs, who was telling everyone they buy their powder from the US not adding that the US was importing it from China!

        Reply
  67. Sue Prytherch

    Hi, Let me throw some things out that I have been thinking of. It seems that most thyroid meds have somehow changed their formula. If you think about the drug industry, it’s all about profit. If they can save money by purchasing their natural desiccated thyroid powder from China, they all have to compete, and I would think it’s all about them saving money. So, the fact that their formula has changed, could very well be that. They may have all changed to a different supplier — from China. To the drug companies, their “formula” has not changed — they are still making their pills from “x” amount of desiccated thyroid powder.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      If I am continually making boxed cakes for a living, and my steps are always about

      1) buying the boxed cake
      2) adding 3 eggs, oil, milk, vanilla
      3) beating 2 minutes,
      then baking at 350 degrees…then I can say I am doing the same thing even still to counter new complaints about my cakes.

      But what is not being said can be this:

      1) I’m buying a different brand of cake mix, so no, it may be totally different in taste and cause problems
      2) The eggs I’m now using come from chickens who are drinking nasty, putrid water
      3) The oil I’m now using has a totally different taste
      4) The milk I’m now using is always on the edge of rancid because my refrig isn’t cooling like it used to
      5) The vanilla I now use is lower quality
      6) I’m using a new oven and it’s heating hotter than 350 degrees, even though it says 350 degrees

      i.e I may be able to say I’m doing the same 3 steps above thing in making the boxed cake, but I’m leaving all the other details out which are ruining my cake.

      Reply
      • Lori

        I’m wondering if they could be using bovine thyroid instead since pigs are currently more expensive, or maybe they are adding larger amounts of filler to stretch it out.

        Reply
  68. Sabrina Schön

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling the original source (not the reseller) of the desiccated Thyroids?

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling if their desiccated Thyroids are made only of pigs Thyroid?

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not forced by law to do this?

    Why is it easier to get the information where the pig comes from, when you are buying the meat?

    Reply
  69. Gina

    Ah hah, and where exactly was it privately sourced from? Did they ever tell you that?

    Reply
  70. Russ

    I just called a local Compounding Pharmacy and they told me that they can make bio-identical T3/T4 compound meds that are derived from duck, not porcine. They also use two plant based hypoallergenic fillers.
    Is anybody here using ‘Bio-identical’ T3/T4 compounded meds?
    If so, what is your experience on getting optimal?

    Reply
    • Yesi

      Can you please let us know which pharmacy , I’ve never heard of this

      Reply
      • Russ

        Yesi,
        It’s a Pharmacy near me in Orange County, California. Am I allowed to mention the name on this site?

        Reply
        • Barbara Whitaker

          I’m near Orange County and would love that info as well.

          Reply
          • Russ

            Barbara, I would like to communicate with you.
            How do we exchange Emails privately?

          • Russ

            Barbara,
            I’m curious, who is your Doctor?
            As for the Pharmacy, call Central Drugs in Fullerton or La Habra.

    • Gina

      Russ, Are you in the USA? Are you going to try the duck thyroid? Will they tell you where they get it from?

      Reply
      • Russ

        Gina,
        Yes, I’m in Southern California.
        I’ll call the Pharmacy tomorrow and ask where it it sourced from.
        Not sure if they will tell me but I will ask.

        Reply
        • Gina

          Thanks Russ! I am very excited to learn more about this. I have never heard anything or anyone mention that duck thyroids could help us. I know that pig thyroid is supposedly similar to human thyroid, or the hormones anyway… but I cannot find anything about using duck thyroid for this purpose anywhere online… Anyone else???

          Reply
          • Russ

            OK, this is strange.
            The pharmacist told me that the compounded meds can be made from materials sourced from the duck feathers, not duck thyroids, and even from hair.
            She said they are bio identical but technically a synthetic.
            When asked where they sourced their materials she could only tell me that it was from an FDA approved supplier and she did not know the country of origin.
            I starting to feel like we are all just guinea pigs in some sinister lab experiment……

          • Yesi

            Can you please give the pharmacy name, Interesting concept Id like to know more about for future reference if needed.

        • gina martin

          Russ… 🙁 we already know the answer to that… it is from China and it is useless… possibly even harmful!

          Reply
  71. Beth

    I was on Armour for almost 20 years, I switched to NP because of insurance formulary list changes. NP has been good, but I did note that the current batch smells weird. It also does not match the color and shape of previous pills from NP. Fortunately, I keep a 90 day supply on hand. I am thinking of going to a synthetic when I see my doctor in a few weeks.

    American Laboratories used to be the sole supplier in the US for porcine thyroid powder. Per their website, they are no longer offering this product. When NP states that they are now getting their porcine powder from the EU, they fail to tell us which country. My research led me to only find a supplier in Argentina and China. China is a huge concern. Bloomberg news has been running a series of reports on generic drugs and raw materials coming from China and India. In India there are about 600 pharmaceutical companies and only 17 FDA inspectors. Never mind if the drug is effective, but other things like rat droppings,etc, have been found. China is not much better. Most of the fentanyl is coming from China in the US Mail.

    Is anyone else concerned about this and other drugs? When you buy a avocado now, grocers are required to tell you where that avocado is sourced. We need to do the same with Pharmaceuticals.

    Reply
    • Amy Lynn

      Wow Beth, that is scary/interesting about the porcine thyroid powder. I’ve asked Acella in an email exactly which country in Europe it is from and as you can expect, I received no answer. Why the secrecy when we’re putting this into our bodies? I agree!

      Reply
  72. Sheila Anderson

    I feel great on WP Thyroid when I can get it. Trouble is that the RLC website gives availability for Nature Throid which does not work for me but is silent on when WP Thryoid will become available. I keep calling many of the pharmacies listed on their site, but no one seems to know anything. Wondering if you have heard anything. I am using some old WP Thryroid which turned brown and is several years old plus some Nature Throid (about 8 months old) and trying to hold on but I really need to know if WP Thyroid is going to be shipped again or if I need to get some compounded version of this — sooner rather than later. I will be out of my old stuff within a month and beginning to feel desperate. Why won’t RLC just let us know about WP Thyroid’s expected shipping date? It’s not like this is optional!

    Reply
    • Criss

      Our local compounding pharmacy carries WP now and I’ve switched my son over to it..waiting to see. We used to get it through Walmart, but not anymore.

      Reply
  73. Jeanne

    Any news on NP thyroid? Any statements from Acella? I’ve scoured the internet and come up with absolutely NOTHING!… except here. I’m taking the new whiter pills, feeling like I’m gaining weight, but scale says no. Maybe it’s just bloating me… also fighting constipation…resting heart rate a little lower in the morning…starting on the second week of it.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Basically all that is coming from Acella is denial, minimizing, whitewashing, passing the buck, and failure to touch certain topics with a ten foot pole.

      Reply
      • Kim

        There gonna be sorry they changed because we will continue to look for whatever will make us feel better even if that means going back to synthetic

        Reply
  74. Sage

    I have read lately that Levothyroxine can perpetrate tachycardia…!

    Is that true?

    Thank you

    Reply
  75. Yesi

    New labs on np thyroid 150 :

    TSH: 0.009. reference range .450-4.500

    Free t3: 6.0. Reference range 2.0-4.4

    Free t4: 1.34. Reference range .82-1.77

    Liver Ast: 55 reference range 0-40

    Liver Alt: 65 reference range 0-32

    I Do not feel Hyper; tired and constipated, fuzzy brain

    Janie any thoughts?
    Do mildly elevated liver enzymes corelate to thyroid disease?

    I’m asking my dr for compounded synthetic T3/T4 , but dont know what I should ask for, I remember doing best on Naturethroid 146.25 before they went down hill.

    Reply
  76. Angi

    Thank you for this article. I fought and fought through 4 different dr’s to be put on NDT. Have been on NP thyroid for several months and have been feeling worse and worse. Labs confirmed it is just not keeping me regulated. ThyCa in 2015. So it was a big fight getting anyone to switch me from synthroid..Now, I will be going back on the synthroid but will be asking for t3 as well. We’ll see! I am glad to see the article and know that it was not all in my head.

    Reply
  77. Judy

    Hi everyone

    If there is anyone that is taking thyroid S and has been on it for at least a couple of months, or a year. Can you comment on how it’s working.
    If optimal, is it working well. This is for anyone

    I would really be grateful for any information that anyone can provide

    Thanks!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Judy. There have been many people over the years who do quite well on Thyroid-S! 🙂 Just remember this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Judy

        Thanks Janie

        Reply
        • Louise Leech

          Im disgusted. Im 4 yrs out of work after Levo stopped working for me. Has taken me nearly 2+ yrs to find a Dr to prescribe NDT or believe it was my thyroid. Naturethroid then stopped working after 11 mths, switched to NP. Was titrating up when I started feeling horrendously hypo June 19 onwards. Also experiencing full body hives and allergic rashes. Im in limbo now. My bld tests look optimal with high FT3 and midrange FT4 but Im so ill. Hoping to switch to T3 only

          Reply
    • Russ

      Judy,
      Before you place your order, make sure to ask if Thyroid S is still able to be shipped to the USA.
      I can’t remember where I read it but deliveries from Thailand to the USA might not be available anymore.

      Reply
    • Cissy

      I’ve been on Thyroid-S for two years. I saw several doctors who refused to treat me for hypothyroidism. My TSH was 3.9 and rising steadily. I took matters into my own hands and ordered Thyroid-S. I recently saw an ENT who said my T4 was a tad low but agreed it was working for me. I simply added 1/2 grain. Originally, I ordered directly from the manufacturer but most recently ordered on Amazon. It took about 3 weeks to arrive.

      Reply
  78. Kathy Kennedy

    Thanks for all your comments. I’m trying to figure out what to do now. Until a few weeks ago I was on 3 grains of Armour. Blood tests showed Free T3 was below range and Free T4 was at the bottom of range. I knew I needed to take afternoon naps again. Doc switched me to 195mg of Naturethroid (Wp was t available) and I am now fully symptomatic. I’ve now added back in 45mg of Armour in addition to the Naturethroid and am sleeping less (12 hours a day instead of 18 hours a day). Doc says talk to the pharmacy, who knows nothing.

    Reply
  79. Maria

    As per the many posts about bad reactions to the new ndt sourcing I have the same severe and horrible reactions to the new ndt now available. I was fine with the older wp-thyroid. Since it became unavailable I took the naturethroid and became very ill with multiple reactions. I then found a pharmacy in Pennsylvania “village compounding pharmacy“ that had almost pure ndt with only 1 natural filler. And again a bad reaction. I believe it is not the fillers or additives in the various ndt products it’s the PCCA source that is now faulty. Has anyone researched a new sourcing that is clean? Is there a population in the world that is using ndt from a good source and not getting sick from it?? I am desperate now. As well as many other bad effects i have severe head and stomache pain from these new ndt stocks.

    Reply
    • Gabrielle Jones

      I use thyrovanz which is from bovines in New Zealand which has never had mad cow disease. I did great on it,as far as feeling good and keeping my weight at the right place. My doctor said the tsh was way too low 0.0016 and t4 out of range. I tried naturethroid and gained 16 pounds in a month. I went back to thyrovanz and am losing weight. My husband takes it also,and his labs are within range.

      Reply
  80. Jenny

    I have lab work coming up. I take both Naturethroid and np thyroid (which does stink). I currently split my thyroid dose taking it in the morning and at night. Previously, I thought you recommended to move the nighttime dose to the afternoon, but now I see it is recommended to skip the nighttime dose? Sorry, I am confused and want to make sure I test accurately. Thanks so much!

    Reply
  81. Marie

    Janie-
    When we added extra T3 to my NP last spring, it helped some, but my FT4 was below midpoint. My doctor just wanted to add more T3 since I still had symptoms, but I was worried about the low FT4. The only option she gave me to get both 3 & 4 was to bump my NP by 1/4 grain. 🙁 No improvement, obviously. Is there a danger in not having enough T4, if only supplementing T3? I figure T4 must have *some* purpose, if we need to keep our FT4 at a certain level. Does the body need T4 for anything other than conversion to T3?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No, for years, patients have done just fine if they chose the T3-only route and got optimal. It’s not harmful that it also means the free T4 is quite low. You just have to multi-dose approximately every 4 hours for 3 doses. Some might take a teeny amount at bedtime, too. Optimal for years has put the free T3 at the top when on T3-only, very occasionally slightly over.

      Reply
      • Marie

        Thanks, Janie — I see my doctor in 2 weeks (after my labs come back), and I will ask her about trying T3 only. Unfortunately, I just found out that she is retiring, so that means I will have to find a new doctor and start this all over again. Ugh!

        Reply
  82. Maree

    I’m in Australia. Our NDT is not in a tablet form, it is compounded at a local pharmacy and comes in capsules.
    I had not read about the medications changing until today and it explains a lot about why I’ve been feeling crap lately and went to my GP last week.
    I pay $110AUD for 100 capsules of 2.5 Grains.
    Is the compound medicines compromised too?

    Reply
  83. Yesi

    Anyone here using compounded synthetic T3/T4 with good results, if so where are you getting it from and cost?

    Reply
  84. Betty

    What do you all plan on doing now that NP has changed? I am not sure what to go on. I still have a couple of weeks of my old np and than nothing. I was thinking about nature throid. Is anyone doing well on it? I know it has changed, but armour is too much for me right now. Any advice?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No, Naturethroid is the worst on to get on when you see how badly people went hypothyroid after it came out.

      Below are alternatives and remember to get optimal with your frees. It’s not about just being anywhere on them.

      1) Adding synthetic T4 to synthetic T3
      2) T3-only, multi-dosed
      3) Natural Thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al
      4) Compounded thyroid
      5) Thai version of NDT

      Reply
      • Betty

        Thanks. I was on nature throid before they changed it and was great. After the new batch I went more hypo and changed to NP and was great. I am getting tired of changing It is hard for me just to get my Doctor to give me these type of drugs, they want me on synthroid, even though I have problems with it too. Sometimes just want to give up all together on thyroid drugs.

        Reply
      • Ann

        I am curious if others have found success with Amour as of late…..I know its expensive and it sounds like you may need to take more but does it have any known problems with it? (As in manufacturing, etc.)

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It’s a hard call. We see some who as they raised Armour to try and get optimal, they had problems. Other say they are fine, but we honestly can’t tell if they are optimal. We have to be optimal to not lose the “fine”. Right now, we’re just not sure since it went downhill.

          Reply
          • Betty

            I don’t think I will ever go on armour again. I had very bad panic attacks from it all the years I was on it and did not know it was causing it til I went off and went on Naturethroid. The panic attacks slowly went away and I never had them on Np either. I lost so much of my life due to those panic attacks for almost 25 years while on armour.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            How strange because pre-2009, it was an excellent NDT.

    • Betty

      I started amour in 1983 and about two years afterward developed panic attacks and was housebound for years. I learned to cope with them, but they still ruled my life. A few years ago I was changed to nature throid,right before they changed it and the panic attacks and anxiety attack went away. I still cannot explain, it was the only thing that changed in my life. I do not take any other drugs. I went on NP last year and no panic attacks.

      Reply
      • Maggie1brown@hotmail.com

        I too Had anxiety the more Armor I took. I can’t say that I was optimal, but I had to quit taking the Armour as the adrenalin rush feeling was awful. I’ve been off all thyroid meds now for over a year, my tsh
        has climbed to 5.22 but am afraid to try anything else. Seeing an OA in Dec who might have some insight.

        Reply
  85. Shelley Ross

    My current prescription for 210mcg for 100 pills: $248
    Hopkinton Drug Compounding Department

    Reply
  86. Angie B

    Confused!
    I was diagnosed hypothyroid in 2006. Started out with the usual generic Synthroid. Did my research when I felt like death and actually got the doc to prescribe Armour. Did awesome on that and stayed on it for a little while after the reformulation. Switched to Naturethroid and once again did awesome until the reformulation and my hair started falling out so went on NP and didn’t feel all that much better so tried compounded. That was a big no so I stuck it out with the NP. All the time I’ve been on NDT it has smelled. Even the pharmacy tech asked how I could stand it. Never thought much of it. I picked up a new script of NP today and there is absolutely no smell. Maybe faint if you take a big whiff. Asked my hubby to smell the difference and he’s saying my old stuff smells like ammonia or cat urine. Funny thing is it has smelled like this for a long time. I even have an old bottle in the freezer that smells the same. So now what do I do? This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. Ughhhhhhh

    Reply
    • Betty

      Mine was the same way and new one had little smell. I tried it and I stared to itch. Can’t take it and stopped. Now will have to go on something else.

      Reply
    • matt

      “This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. ” – which is the opposite of others reviews here; (speckled and stinky).

      Proof there are obvious inconsistencies in NP.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Matt, I’d like to chat with you and Karen in a group email about your good labs on NP. But the email doesn’t work that you are using here. Can you contact me via this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/contact and give me an email that I can include with Karen’s for a group chat?

        Reply
        • Betty

          Mine are speckled, but no smell.

          Reply
          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Same as my husband’s NP pills–no smell, tiny specks. And he’s been going downhill on them for 6-8 weeks. We just didn’t know why until it clicked last week that even these NP’s have something wrong.

      • Angie B

        Great! Looks like I may have to go back to compounded after my old NP is gone. I’ve had the urge to go off thyroid meds completely to see how I do. I don’t foresee it getting any better in the future. The FDA and Big Pharma have us where they want us!!!

        Reply
  87. Jamie

    I’ve suffered most of my life with a thyroid issue. Only been treated for past 13 years. Started on brand name Synthroid only to feel like death daily. Switched to NDT about 3 years ago. Felt a little more human but when my meds increase so does my adrenaline and heart palps. Saying I’m disappointed is an understatement. Why can’t they stop messing with EVERYTHING under the sun, moon and stars. They’ve poisoned ALL of our food and now our meds. We’re DOOMED! Come quickly Jesus!

    Ko

    Reply
  88. Matt

    oops, edited and ended up re-posting….

    Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
    Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actually FT4 was a little higher.
    ***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
    Maybe the new batches have inconsistencies among them?
    It was re-bottled, so no lot # ect.
    I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.

    Reply
  89. Matt

    Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
    Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actaully FT4 was a little higher.
    ***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
    Maybe the new batches have inconsistancies among them?
    It was e-bottled, so no lot # ect.
    I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.

    Reply
    • Karen H

      I had the same experience, Matt. My labs have stayed roughly the same, with Free T4 a little over mid-range and Free T3 at the high end of the range. TSH barely detectable. I do not take mine sublingually.

      Reply
  90. Betty

    Is anyone itching on the new NP? After taking mine I started to itch. I stopped taking it and after a day the itching went away. Took it this morning and the itching is back.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, some have mentioned itching as well as a variety of strange symptoms they never had on the previous unchanged NP. It’s gone downhill in the worst way.

      Reply
      • Betty

        I called Acella and told them what happen. They ask me a few questions and than the batch number. I gave them that and they also want me to send them a couple of the pills back to them at their expense. Someone else is suppose to call me and ask me more questions. I have called the Doctor and requested to be put back on Nature throid. The only problem I had with it was that my tests would go up and down. If that happens again I can deal with it. If that becomes problem I will go back on armour. I will just have to find the money to buy it. So sad. I was doing so good on NP.

        Reply
        • Karen H.

          At least Naturethroid is still sourced and manufactured in the US and Canada.

          Reply
  91. LINDA

    I posted this in another thyroid group after reading the post.
    Yep, she outlines the path, I had to take “to a T”. Armour, Erfa, and the other brands, in the very same order I moved from one to the next. Only to have each brand begin to slowly stop working for me, and I realize the same happened to many others, so many others.

    NDT’s may well always be around, but good grief, are they worth the effort of trying to get and then have to keep managing on a week to week basis? This is no way to try to live a productive life!

    She also describes what happened to me with the Thyrovanz “There are occasional incidences, with labs to prove it, of the free’s going quite high on doses of Thyrovanz that aren’t high doses. So WATCH your frees, just in case.” I had to stop the Thyrovanz, I think I felt the worse I ever felt on that. (Other than when I was not on any medication, with a TSH just under 100)

    I just spent over 600.00, out of pocket, to meet with an open minded nurse practitioner First thing she said to me was get off that Thyrovanz and now, after seeing my whacky test results (I had ordered and paid for on my own)
    She sent me for 30 blood tests, this morning, that cost 4,580.00 I hope to h*ll and back, my insurance covers those tests! I am to go for six or seven additional tests in two weeks. Again, I hope my insurance does not “wig out” on me and say they are not going to cover that many tests.
    Here I am with insurance- that costs us an arm and a leg, and paying out of pocket for tests, along with professional direction while knowing my medication options are limited, and most of them, are no longer working for many of us.
    Then too, these odd side effects so many are experiencing.
    What the H*LL!??
    End of my rant.

    Reply
  92. Zoe E

    I am new to T4 and T3 usage after using NDT for years and now using Thyrogold for the past 1 year. Can someone point me to the right blog page, facebook page, etc. where I can find recommendations for better working T4 and T3 brands? Thank you so much!

    Reply
  93. Lisa

    Waving ‘hi’ and so disappointed too! I was on Armour 1998 to around 2014 but yes, around 2009-2010, my symptoms worsened. In 2014, I switched to NatureThroid. I’m currently on 3.5 grains of NatureThroid, having my dose increased 2.5 to 3 times, from around 1 to 1.5 grains. My past physician blamed me for not taking my medication right, which is so ludicrous. I know the drill, such as waiting at least an hour to eat. I took my medication religiously too. They also tried to blame my increase in mediation on having low iron, but nope, that wasn’t the issue. For the past year, I’ve had a new physician who has been willing to put me on T3 (I do generic Cytomel), finding my optimal dose is 25 mcg, split into half, taking it twice daily…This is in addition to my 3.5 grains of NatureThroid. I’m seriously pondering if I want to continue with NatureThroid or other NDT meds, since they seem to be so incredibly inconsistent, unreliable, etc. I’m pondering switching to some kind of synthetic T4, in addition to my current regime of T3. This is all so horrible. I feel for all of us thyroid patients actually, regardless of which medication(s) we chose to use. This IS all about the money (*wink, wink*) and well, Big Pharma really sucks.

    Reply
  94. Lucille

    Why do we bother with NDT at all at this point .. on 5 NP Tyroid since March and too many bad symptoms to list .. switched from NatureThyroid due to availability .. switched from Armout due to cost .. Since synthetic T-4 and T-3 available .. Why are we messing with all this garbage that is so difficult to manage due to all the changes . Synthetic T-4 only did not work for me at all .. now that I know synthetic T-3 is available .. why would I want to push to get NDT ..which has been nothing but a nightmare since 2014. I want my life back .. working the NDT is too much work and I’m not understanding why if the synthetics do the same. Why are we driving ourselves crazy .. I’m seriously asking .. am I missing something? I was in emerg room last week with heart rate of 163 .. they told me panic attack .. I take 5 grains a day . Cry all day long and keep getting cold, hot sweats, virus’s, all over itching, allergy like symptoms, achy all over, headaches, blurred vision, nausea even vomiting, stomach and throat burning and other digestive issues.. yes I’m am quite the mess.. with 3 changes in a year running around to keep up with NDT .. I sit here and wonder why not just T-3 (cytomel) or T-4 and T-3. Why is anyone still struggling to stay on a NDT when stable synthetic t4 and t3 meds are available .. that is my question. We are not doctors and we are trying to keep up on all this complicated adrenal, saliva test, cortisol, iron, b-12, frees etc etc .. its mind boggling and making me more confused than ever .. my ‘it’s not rocket science’ comment for the day is .. just go back to synthroid and add T-3, here they do cytomel .. problem solved .. and then my Medicare will cover.. another problem solved .. no more sizing, smelling, tasting, measuring, and lab work every 6 weeks .. ect act .. I’m feel totally insane and calling my doc tomorrow for switch. Am I out of touch by suggesting this .. I mean no disrespect .. just so tired of feeling sick (like I have the flu) all the time. My brother wanted to take me to ER again today cause I felt like I was breaking down .. I am depressed but never like this .. now I read this and think I’m being poisoned with the NP I’ve been taking since March which is about the same time I took a major dive down hill. Respectfully Lucy

    Reply
    • Alex

      Hi Lusy, I am so sorry that you feel so ill… I understand you very well. Last time on NP I felt ill as well.
      However, I would say that 5 grain is a really high dose. Your symptoms you describe could be also symptoms of the hyperfunction, especially your heart rate of 163.
      Could it be your are overdosed on 5 grain? If I were in your place, I would first of all talk to my doctor and order the blood work.

      If you take the synthetic T4 T3 you also should do your blood work every 6-8 weeks

      Reply
      • Just Me

        @Alex No, 5 grains is not a high dose. I switched to Armour and now have to take over 6 grains. I was on 4 grains of NP. It’s not the same and we seem to need MORE pills because something in ALL NDT’s has caused them to be weaker. More pills means more money and it’s looking like that’s the bottom line. Additionally, when our cortisol and iron is optimal, MOST people need 3-5 grains (per STTM book and website as well as other resources.) I am a thyroid patient AND in the medical profession. I know labs, changed medications, symptoms of Hypo (patients can and do have symptoms which aren’t cookie-cutter hypo/hyper.) I have seen people taking doses as high as 10-11 grains on NDT. We need to be optimal in many areas.

        Reply
        • Alex

          Thank you JustMe for your interesting comment. As for me, I have also been on 3,5 NP doing well being optimal with my lubs. Then I changed to 3,5 WP and experienced the same symptoms as when I was hyper with Graves‘ (especially a constant high heart rate) and like Lucy describe her symptoms. I slowly lowered WP dose and with 2,5 grain I feel better, not as well as I felt on 3,5 NP over the last years but better than on 3,5 WP.

          I am absolutely agree with you that we should be optimal in many arias. But… we all are different. Therefore I think the best way for Lucy would be go to her dr and do the blood work and then see.

          Reply
          • Just Me

            Alex, have you seen the great labs which can be ordered here on STTM? Highly recommended. I think everyone is completely frustrated with what’s been happening to NDT… to say the least.

            Lucille, I hope you feel better soon.

    • Tessa

      I feel the same way. Diagnosed with Hashimoto’s a year ago and I never have really felt great on NDT
      . I give up and im.going to try another Endo and see if I can get my life bac. I cant take the exhaustion much longer

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Tessa, if you were on NP, you were probably underdosed. It was always about being optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

        Now all of the NDT’s are not what they used to be. Some patients are still trying to make them work, but experience shows it’s iffy. So others are moving to the natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al, or doing both synthetic T3 with synthetic T4….and getting optimal.

        Endos are obsessed with T4-only and the TSH. Fight against that.

        Reply
  95. Sheila

    I have been on all the NDT’s since 2001. Armour: great till changed. ERFA: absolutely the best till they changed. WP Thyroid was working well and then into a shortage and I used Naturethroid which did not work very well and I again experienced hypothyroid symptoms. WPThyroid became available again earlier this year, and when I can get it, it seems to work pretty well. Key is finding it. I have some old WPThyroid which I never took because it turned brown almost right away after getting it (a couple of years old). Now with WPThyroid impossible to find, I am wondering if this older brown WPThyroid is ok to take. What causes it to turn brown anyway?

    Reply
    • housemaid

      Sheila, I took WP before they quit making it for a year. I would put it in a 7 day pill organizer and it would turn brown when taken out of the bottle it came in which had a dessicant. So I’d say moisture in the air is what turned your pills brown. I think it is worth trying your old WP pills if they were made before they went bad. I had been using some old Nature-throid from Jan. 2016 for a little over a week and they seemed to be working. Then I found an even older bottle of Nature-throid with 30 pills in it from Jan. 2014. I used that for 2 days and crashed. My temperature dropped to 97, my BP fell, and I couldn’t get out of bed. So I went back to the Jan. 2016 Nature-throid and recovered within a day. So just put a dessicant in your old WP pills and give them a try. Desperate situations call for desperate actions! Of course, if your pills stink like the new NP, don’t take them. My old Nature-throid pills are tasteless and odorless.

      Reply
      • Sheila

        Thanks so much. Am alternating days, taking the older brown WP Thyroid one day, and some of the new WP Thyroid I still have trying to stretch it out until WP Thyroid becomes available again (it will become available soon, right?). I appreciate your insight and so far I don’t feel like I’m crashing or anything. Don’t know what I’ll do when it runs out.

        Reply
  96. Alex

    I have also read this new Acella`s comment on FB.

    On the September 11, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:

    Quote: „In the StopThyroidMadness-facebook is a comment from “Rachel Librach Nisenson”, which says, that David Margolis from Acella told her on the phone, that “..the source of the thyroids are from Europe and North America..”.

    So “from Europe” seems new.

    I’m from Europe and I’m sure, that we have NO producers of desiccated porcine thyroids.
    As far as I know, there are 2 companies in Europe, one in Italy, the other in Spain, that are buying desiccated thyroids from South America, testing them and sell them again.“

    Also on the September 9, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:

    Quote: „3. We are from Germany, Munich, Metropolitan Pharmacy.“

    I would presume that a person who works in a Pharmacy in Europe should be well informed. This raised the question whether Acella is lying again.

    Reply
  97. Marilyn Turnbull

    Hi, I am new to this group. I read STTM book a few years ago and found it to be very helpful. I had Graves Disease and radiation which took all of my thyroid function and have been on Synthroid and then switched to compounded T3/T4.

    After reading your latest blog “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients” I called my compounding pharmacy and asked for the name of the company which supplies their thyroid hormones. She said it is called Medisca. Formerly they were using Armour. She didn’t know why they switched.

    I am presently in a hyperthyroid state with an elevated T3. I have been using glandulars: Dr. Ron’s Ultra Pure Kidney from New Zealand and Thyro Complex from Endo-met Labs which contains kelp, Bovine thyroid, Porcine adrenal, porcine pituitary and porcine spleen powders and a separate supplement from Endomet Labs, Kelp. I am on a special program to balance the thyroid and adrenal levels and sodium/potassium pump called Nutritional Balancing started years ago by Dr. Paul Eck and is being carried on by Dr. Lawrence Wilson and Dr. Eck’s family continue to run the laboratory which is in Phoenix, Arizona. I’ve been doing well on this program.

    I am 70 years old and lost my thyroid function when I was 35 years old. I have been on the Nutritional Balancing program for six years and a half years and have dumped a ton of heavy metals. I feel the recent increase in my T3 is probably due to too many glandulars. I get my dessicated thyroid hormones in 30 mg. tablets and use my hair analysis to determine my thyroid hormone status. This is done by assessing the calcium/potassium ratio which is the thyroid ratio and the adrenal ratio which is the sodium/magnesium ratio and the vitality ratio by the sodium/potassium ratio AND the oxidation rate. I am presently in slow oxidation and the thyroid meds are not penetrating the cells as they should so in this case I would increase the hormones to 150 mg. per day versus 120 mg. per day. this has worked well until I increased the Thyro Complex. So now I am having panic attacks again. I am wondering if I should leave the thyroid dosage at 150 mg. and stop the Thyro Complex or should I also decrease the thyroid meds to 120 mg. per day until the panic attacks stop.

    Also, how has Medisca been rated by STTM? It’s a scary thing to think we may have been put out to sea in a tiny boat with no anchor.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      That is the facility that provides NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) powder to compounding pharmacies. We really don’t know much about it.

      If you are having panic attacks, might need look into doing a saliva cortisol test, then comparing the results to the Lab Values Page on STTM. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol

      Also, might want to do blood testing for the free T3 and free T4 and compare the the Lab Values page, too.

      Reply
  98. Stephanie Pierce

    So I just saw this on FB, not sure if it has been reported here already, but yeah, they did change sonething, they changed where they sourced their material. https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR05k-PjRJGIcZn2wFWR8VzSAlaLxZqh6Ag_yq3oODX1oc3enIyKnmrs-HY

    Reply
  99. matt

    For people feeling hypo on this – I am not seeing people mentioning taking this sublingual. If its a coating issue, sublingual, grind up first in cheek then leaving / taking sublingual – takes about 10 imn to absorb should help. My new spotted, taller, diff smelling NP 60’s work fine this way so far. thats how Ive taken many brands of NDT though, zero ill feeling so far.. With past brands (4), I tested/ compared this way, then rertested swallowing. Taking the Sub method always offered slightly higher T4 if mouth is clean- no protine traces.T3 is never changed by protien (impossible), just T4 can be bound to protien.there is ALWAYS for trace protien in gut than mouth if you rinse out your mouth. Cant rinse out your gut LOL. I take twice a day too. TRY It.

    Reply
    • matt

      Of course this is for people going hypo if this new NP has absorbing issues (like Armour and NT in 2009-2010 forward).. If there is other symptoms then this wont do anything. So far this is fine for me. We are all different and maybe not all of the new NP is the same.

      Reply
  100. Kathy

    The option I chose was changing to compound T3 and T4. It was only a few dollars more than NP.

    I had a “conversation” with a rep. from Acella over the phone. I repeatedly told him he was NOT addressing the complaint of taste, color etc. and there was no way the formula was the same. And I would be not be taking NP again.

    Also has anyone else noticed that one of the fillers in NP is calcium stearate?  Several health professionals I listen to recommend taking no calcium, magnesium or zinc until 2-4 hours later!! Maybe the calcium stearate is why my free T4 and free T3 stayed at the bottom of the range!!!

    Kathy S. Lawrence 

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, their line is always along the line of “we changed nothing” and “it’s normal to have differences between batches”. Those of us who have used Acella awhile, or other brands, know very well that there has NEVER been changes like this. What they are not addressing are the myriad of bad reactions and return of hypo symptoms that so many are having. It’s a tragedy and people are responding by refusing to give Acella their money.

      Reply
  101. sam

    does that mean that if you a re still feeling tired and cant lose weight very easily that is ok to take more thyrogold[ or whatevr are taking ] .sometimes if i take a lot more heartrate can be higher but you mean thats becuase are not taking enough adn if tak e more for a week or 2 heart rate will go down ot normal and will adjust and the problem is still too litttle not too much thryo gold . [ am not sure i understand correclty ] thank you jamie for this website !!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      You always have to watch your free T3 and free T4 before raising. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • sam

        thansk you jamie hate going to the dr such a waste of time and hard to ge t them to do the tests like this on e . they’ll do the tsh etc but pain i the neck to get them to do others

        wish there was some other way to tell

        Reply
    • Karen f

      I was on NP and because my numbers were still off I had to switch to Tirosant (t4 only synthetic) . I didn’t have a choice. But now my free t3 and freet4 are good and tsh is super low at .0006. My heart rate is always high and I did not know that my meds could cause that. Is that what causes it? It’s so up and down from 78-130! And I don’t work out ! Sometimes I’ll just be standing there and it’s 104. Seems high to me for just standing.

      Reply
  102. Margarita

    I think I still have a good batch of NP Thyroid. It’s sweet tasting (even though it does have a particular taste, it’s NOT cat litter). When I first started on NP from Naturethroid back in January 2019, my T4 and T3 went high! I had to lower my dose from 3 grains to 2 to keep my T3 in the upper range. HOWEVER, I am on my last two days of “good batch NP”. I just placed a refill and am scared to start on the new batch. I am not even sure whether it might still be one of the good ones or not. I’ll have to see.
    My question is – will it be ok to start taking T3 only even when Free T3 is already in the higher range?

    I am looking at other options offered here too and am overwhelmed of what would be the best route to take. I am so upset about this change in NDT!!! Just when I started to feel better and do better (my hair stopped falling out, no heart palps), I am seeing this post and it makes me want to cry, it’s so upsetting. I too am disgusted by many of the ignorant doctors and our pharmaceutical industry. Both are in the business to make money and not help people. It’s sad.

    A huge THANK YOU to you, Janie, for advocating for us and providing us with all this information. It’s been a blessing.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      If a free T3 is in the very upper part (way above midrange) and free T4 is midrange, that is optimal

      You’ll know you have the changed NP is the smell is way worse, the taste is horrid, and you start having any kind of problems on the same amount you’re no now.

      And you are very welcome. 🙂

      Reply
  103. Lynn

    Janie, I am not on Facebook but look at your page to keep updated. I used to be able to load the comments to your posts (relevant, oldest, or all comments) but now they aren’t loading. When I choose “all comments” it just keeps spinning. I don’t know if Facebook is messing with it so they won’t load or if it is a setting that changed. In any event, now the only way I can read comments is if you have also posted here. When you posted about the T3 Mayne Pharma change I was able to quickly switch within one week so I didn’t get alot of bad symptoms and it is the way I found my compounding pharmacy, American Integrative in Lomita CA. They only use one filler, Acidophilus and someone had posted their information. Your Facebook posts and comments keep me healthy! I am still signed up to receive your newsletter and check your blog here often to read comments and the latest updates. I just wish the Facebook comments were visible to me. Thank you for doing what you do, you are a valuable source of information and are much appreciated.

    Reply
  104. Vicky

    Am about five days into my new NP. Have labs ordered for 3 weeks in. I am one who thinks the old stinky NP was the good stuff and the new, no smell NP but yes taste is definitely cat litter. I am going to see if there are compounded options. I heard from my compounder that it is expensive but doable. I had such a horrific response to cytomel along with levothyroxin, I am loathe to try it again. Damn the cost, I will pay whatever. Anyone have advice for me.

    Reply
    • Stefanie

      I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.

      Reply
      • Margarita

        How do you order exactly? Do you just call the compounding pharmacy and tell them you need 60-65 mg of NDT? I’m confused with this. Help!

        Reply
  105. Lynn

    What’s your opinion of WP Thyroid? I’ve taken it for years.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Lynn. It’s honestly not about opinion. I’ve made sure that the majority of what is associated with Stop the Thyroid Madness is about years of strong experiences and wisdom. SO….WP was always a great product as expressed by patients.

      When RLC quit making both WP and Naturethroid for a year, the first that came back was Naturethroid and we watched what appeared to be every single patient have problems. It was clearly now messed up. WP came out later, and we really haven’t had good responses the past year.

      The problem is that we have to be optimal on NDT, not just “on it”. If our labs are not optimal, the feels good eventually go south. We have seen that for years. The individuality is when it will south.

      We’ve had some people say they felt great on a non-optimal dose of any NDT for a few years, only to later admit they had problems, but didn’t associate them with not being optimal. Then they get worse. And some people claim they feel great, but when we see their free t3 and free T4, they aren’t optimal and are destined to see a return of hypo. (And they get defensive about their labs and feel-goods, taking it like an assault when we explain what happens if not optimal.)

      SO we do have two people recently who have said they feel great on WP. SO without seeing their frees, it’s a gamble.

      So for you saying you’ve taken it for years, it’s important to be optimal. This explains: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal See if you can be optimal on it.

      Reply
  106. Debbie Rhyner

    I have not had any problems with WP Thyroid by RLC Labs.  I have been on it since 2015.

    Reply
  107. Margie

    I definitely had severe trouble with Nature-Throid in 2018. My doctor and I worked through it with lots of blood tests and fiddling with dosage. I’m still taking Nature-Throid and seem to be staying relatively stable lately. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find so my doctor has been talking about switching me to NP Thyroid. After reading this I’m not so thrilled about that idea. Another option she has offered is a compounding pharmacy. I’m wondering if NDT from compounding pharmacies is having similar problems? I’m now leaning in that direction.

    Do you have a link to a page that outlines how you collect your data on people reporting problems with their medication? Do you share your data somewhere? Is it anecdotal or do you have other methods you use for data collection? Just thinking about talking to my doctor about reported problems with her current favorite medication, NP Thyroid.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Margie, it started out being just me in 2002, but quickly moved to a lot of patient reporting, listening, gathering what people were saying. This has been going on for 17 years.

      And via those 17 years of patient reports and wisdom, we saw a pattern for so many things–where people fall in lab rantes when optimal (which means they don’t lose the good effect), which meds work better than others (it was clearly NDT or even T3), how we need the right amount of iron and cortisol to get optimal without problems…on and on

      The sharing of what we have learned is right on the STTM website, in the books, in the blog comments and on the Facebook page. We also continue to get feedback on the solid info we have gathered.

      But with doctors, many can pooh-pooh the solid info. They think that the truth revolves around research. Yet we know for a fact that research will often represent who is paying for it, or be faulty. For example, the Walter Reed VA facility did research on NDT (DTE). And they came up with only the following:

      “DTE therapy did not result in a significant improvement in quality of life; however, DTE caused modest weight loss and nearly half (48.6%) of the study patients expressed preference for DTE over L-T₄. DTE therapy may be relevant for some hypothyroid patients.”

      First, there has always been a significant improvement in quality of life as reported by patients, but we have to be OPTIMAL on our NDT, not just on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Additionally, though 48.6% said they approve NDT, it could have been a LOT higher. Why? The research was going by the TSH, which we know is the WORST way to dose by. The range leaves us hypo. Second, the researchers did not know about the problems with adrenal fatigue and low iron. Both, when raising NDT, will cause problems!!

      Do the bottom line, this is one of many example of “research” can be very faulty.

      But I have been collecting research which at least underscores what we know by repeated experiences to be true: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research

      Reply
  108. Catbond

    Im on compound WTE and compound T3 from CompoundLabs in NZ. Both are working very well to get me towards optimal, however, they say that there is an ongoing worldwide shortage of ingredients for both the WTE and T3 and so are only dispensing 30 days supply at a time. It also is taking approximately a week to dispatch, once ordered, so its very easy for us to be caught short and not be able to get more quickly.

    Reply
    • Stefanie

      I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.

      Reply
      • Sheri

        Are you still doing well with Woodland Hills NDT compound? How long have you used them? I tried a couple and it didn’t go too well. I’d like to try them. I was hoping to see positive feedback.

        Reply
  109. DeeCan

    Here is the cycle I’ve noticed. First Armour changed so people from the US and Internationally went on ERFA from Canada. That was scary for me, being from Canada, because it seems to be one of the reasons ERFA switched manufacturers so that they could accommodate people from all around the world. Then ERFA changed (trying to produce Thyroid more cost-effectively for ERFA perhaps?). So that was the end of ERFA Thyroid as we once knew it. Now that other ndts have changed, except for Thyroid-S, apparently, there will be a huge demand for other sources of natural dessicated thyroid. Pretty soon that will go the way of the Dodo bird, too. Basically, we’re doomed. Sorry, I’ve been basically off ndt for 3 or 4 years now, and I’m feeling very pessimistic, and my brain is nowhere near functioning at optimal levels.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi DeeCan. Yes, it’s frustrating. 🙁 But we are not necessarily doomed. You never know who will see this and produce another NDT. And even so, there are options that may work well as outlined in the post. Don’t forget those, and remember to get optimal with those frees (but you have to have optimal iron and cortisol to get there without problems, we have learned repeatedly. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol)

      Reply
    • Amy

      My dd and I both have hashis. She has flipped back and forth from naturethroid to wp depending on availability. I have tried to stay with wp as I liked it better and could chew it. I am also on t3(sigma pharm). We have both felt worse over the summer and my hair has been falling out. We get 90 supplies of the meds, so it would make sense that we got one of the new batches. I found some of the old batch and the color difference is quite noticeable. I have upped my t3 again, which seems to help the symptoms, but lab numbers are all over the place. The pharmacy is back ordered again, which is getting really old. We go back to the doctor on Thursday so I’ll be interested in what she says. She sells naturethroid from the office, and wp when you couldn’t get it. Wondering if she is seeing this across her patients.

      Reply
  110. Pamela

    I used to be on Acella, but because I wanted more control over my dosing, I switched to Thyrovanz this past February. I feel I’ve been doing well on it, but I do intend to order a blood test from an independent lab to confirm.

    I can’t speak to other supplements, but as far as Thyrovanz is concerned: the only active ingredient is bovine thyroid powder. There aren’t any spleen, adrenal, liver, or any other glandular powders to be concerned about. If I understand correctly, this NDT has the “dietary supplement” label because it is not subjected to the FDA for analysis. As far as the government is concerned, it’s a food product, not a pharmaceutical. The provider, then, can’t make claims about its potency, and that’s probably the biggest risk factor about using the product: getting the right dose right away.

    But if a person is truly unhappy with the current NDT products, and if blood tests verify the ineffectiveness, then I personally wouldn’t hesitate to point them toward Thyrovanz as a potentially viable alternative.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      And it’s important to add that Thyrogold, which has been around even longer, is also a good OTC natural thyroid supplement by years of patient reports, first created by Dr. John C. Lowe. All good ones need to be mentioned.

      Also especially with Thyrovanz, there appear to be a few who have quite high frees on a lower amount of Thyrovanz, to the point of being problematic. So on any OTC, watch your frees before raising. That means whether it’s Thyrovanz or not. There is no guarantee that any OTC natural thyroid supplement will be consistent from bottle to bottle.

      And if anyone finds a third OTC that is making one optimal (free T3 at the top part of the range, free T4 midrange–both) let us know.

      Reply
  111. Sheila

    I am on NP 90mgs per day..I get the 30mgs..Take 2 in AM…1 in afternoon…
    Has this affected the 30 mg tablets…mine seem the same…have a sweet taste..I chew them and let them dissolve in my mouth…I just got my re fill last week..say Sept..15th..

    Reply
  112. Ellen weir

    Hello. I’ve been through 30 plus years of changes and he’ll. Thank you Janie. I’m still able to get old NP, not too stinky from my local pharmacy. But, the generic HC I’ve been on for a year has now changed size and distributor!! I haven’t slept in 2 weeks and it’s the same BS that we are getting with NP. I went to CVS which I had band, and they have WP, which is the only natural thyroid meds I haven’t been on. Have people been experiencing same problems on WP? Jeez

    Reply
  113. Mariana

    Hi. Finding all thes comments on NDT on this blog is so useful!!! I am switching to synthetic T4 + T3 and I am splitting my T3 AND T4 in 3 daily doses. I think Taking T4 (and not only T3) in small doses throughout the day is closer to thyroid physiology and to what we do when we split our NDT. It definitely helps me.

    Reply
  114. Jay

    Other Options for Treatment with NDT:

    1) ARMOUR: A few days ago, I asked a question on another board about Armour………….Two patients responded that they are on Armour and they started AFTER the 2009 fiasco and they are still doing well on Armour today. So the question is………is Armour still WORKABLE? Seems like it would be worth a shot to try Armour (if your current brand is not working) and if Armour does not work right away to raise the dose, if needed, after checking labs to get optimal.

    2) THAILAND (THRYOID-S, THIROYD, TR) Are they still producing any of these three? I have seen posts VERY recently saying that some or all are now out of production. I have heard about these medications for many years and the reviews have mostly been positive. Can anyone give updates on the availability of these meds and/or their effectiveness?

    3) WP: Is WP back or is it NOT back? This question needs to be answered. I talked to my doctor a few days ago and he said it is very hard to get. If it is back, what strengths are back? Also, how is it working for patients if it is back? WP MIGHT be the one that steps in to SAVE the day since there are so few fillers. And WP is made by a company that has been in the NDT business for a long, long time. It would be a GOOD idea to start calling them about WP to see if they can work with the NDT community to help out.

    4) Australia, Germany, Denmark, New Zealand: NDT from these countries has always been on the listed on this website. Has anyone from the US, Canada, or UK ever been able to order NDT from these countries and have them shipped to the US, Canada, or UK?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      The problem is that we don’t really know if someone is truly doing *well* on anything without seeing their free T3 and free T4. To be optimal in these two labs is critical to avoid lingering problems–the latter which people don’t always mention when they say they are “doing well”, we’ve noticed repeatedly.

      Reply
      • Just Me

        Just an FYI: Labs are private and requests from non-medical persons for individual lab results violates HIPAA laws.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It appears to be about consent, Just Me. Not forcing anyone. But it doesn’t change that each individual might want to learn from patient experiences about what optimal is. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Just Me, research was done by two admins here and HIPAA Rules apply only to Healthcare providers, Health plans, healthcare clearing houses, etc. Also to Business associates of HIPAA covered associates. It doesn’t apply to fellow patients, which are not covered entities. A patient can choose to share or not their lab results with no penalty either way.

          Reply
    • Stephanie Morgan

      I recently ordered Thyroid S after not doing well on Thyrogold. The first week on Thyroid S I felt much better, but by the second week I was having heart palpitations. I dropped my dose and continued to take it but by the third week my heart felt like it was pounding out of my chest. I stopped taking it. After doing some research, I discovered that this is a common problem on this NDT.

      Reply
    • Anina

      @ Jay
      I am very sorry! Sriprasit Pharma in Thailand decided this summer to stop producing Thyroid-S, allegedly due to low demand from hospitals and pharmacies. Also, T.Man Pharma already last spring stopped producing TR Thyroid. Only Thiroyd remains in production so far …

      It’s possible that Thai manufacturers are currently testing how their domestic customers will respond to the forced switch to synthetic levothyroxine, but Thailand is a country where reduced ability to work = starvation, so I reckon when purchased ‘stocks’ of NDT are no more, and those desperate poor sick realize that they cannot maintain livelihood on synthetic levothyroxine – it will probably start a minor civil war.

      In contrast, in countries like the Scandinavian/European, where health care is paid over the taxes – society is paying for all the losses which are results of doctors preventing the hypothyroid patients from getting well … while we are paying the same doctors millions and millions in high salaries each and every year, just for keeping us sick.

      Keep in mind that synthetic levothyroxine is a constant number between 3 and 5 in the top ten of the largest number of daily doses sold – on ALL the continents of the world! Through ALL the decades since the 1970s! The risk of losing these HUGE revenues (billions and billions) is why NDT drugs are now consistently sabotaged worldwide. It is a battle we will lose unless millions of our healthy relatives begin to fight with us.

      Reply
  115. Ana

    Thank you, Janie, for this summary of the current state of thyroid treatment. I too am disgusted. All we want is a medical community that will listen to us, will learn from our experiences, and will not be afraid to challenge the 50-year-old, deeply flawed dogma that has harmed so many patients over the years.

    There are wonderful doctors out there, but because of the lack of research, problematic guidelines, and limited treatment options even the best doctors are stumbling around in the dark. And thyroid disease itself is viewed by most in the medical community as insignificant, creating another hurdle to getting improved care.

    We need more scientific inquiry, more intelligent research, guidelines based on the best science, an overhaul in the way doctors are trained, and a variety of safe, consistent medications that will allow us to lead full, productive lives. How do we bring about such a change?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Actually, there is research that proves what we know by our experiences: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research And doctors need to LISTEN To and OBSERVE their patients better in the first place. It’s not, not, not just about research (and who was paid to do the research). There is also very biased and crap research out there, too.

      Reply
      • Ana

        Yes, I completely understand that all of STTM is based on good research. I didn’t express myself well. My frustration is that in the medical community all the good research gets buried (Robert Utiger’s research on the TSH reactions to NDTS/t3 for example) and doesn’t get built upon by successive generations of scientists. Most of the research of the past 50 years is based on faulty premises, that someone on synthetic t4 monotherapy with a TSH in a broad reference range is normal, etc. Those flawed, often badly designed studies get cited over and over and other researchers do yet more research based on the faulty findings. The doctors in my family have told me that protocols won’t change without replicated research, and for complicated reasons, the thyroid research went off on the wrong track around 1970 (much of it driven by the manufacturers of synthetic t4). It will only get turned around with more good research that can refute all the bad stuff that’s driving the diagnostic and treatment protocols. The good research will come from practitioners listening to and learning from their patients, observing how what patients actually experience contradicts the accepted dogma.

        Reply
  116. matt

    Janie- I have the new NP’s, since august, they do look different – just like the photos provided on STTM, I use them sublingual, and they taste the same to me. They smell a little different, but Im NOT smelling cat pee. Im a guy, but still I think some are over exaggerating the smell. Counting past obvious reformulations, I ve used eight formulations of NDT in my life, they all smelled a little different. Yes we had more brands only 12 years ago. Since Acella says they added manufacturing on their website “NP update”, this would be new machinery added (I’v been a manufacturing engineer) and explains the shape difference. The new machinery might need a different release agent too, – thus the smell change. I have used about 60 of my new pills, in combination with some of my old leftover pills. Even at 50% new pills, I should feel hypo or with new symptoms, but dont. I will look into getting the three labs done soon to see what my levels are and report back.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, the only logical explanation said to me personally by Acella a few weeks ago is why the tablet size was different–the new tablet press machine. The rest which was stated struck me as dismissal.

      Reply
      • DeeCan

        It seems really coincidental that ALL manufacturers of ndt have new pressing machines. ERFA has new machines, now others?

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It may be because of demand.

          Reply
          • Carolyn

            Janie,
            I am picking up a new NP rx tomorrow. Are all of the new pills speckled like NatureThroid? What else should I be looking for to see if I have a new/bad batch or an old batch. I use a small local pharmacy so there is a good chance of getting either one (for different reasons). Just need to know what to look for. I couldn’t clearly see the differences on the posted photos.

    • Janie Bowthorpe

      A release agent…can you tell us more about that?

      Reply
      • matt

        They can either use a “dusting” compound (fda appvd) or air blast to release pills from press forms. Too light to just fall out on their own.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          That is interesting. Thank you for explaining that. We as patients are kept in the dark about most things “pharmaceutical”.

          Yet, neither of those seem to explain the repugnant smell patients have noticed on the changed NP Thyroid tablets, a smell far worse than the natural pig smell that we have noticed for years.

          Reply
          • matt

            It might, if the release is not an air, nitrogen or other gas “blast” and is chemically compounded into the outside of the pill, or the “dusting” itself stinks and impregnates into the pills. .There are many ways to do this. Everything has a smell, just how strong is what makes it obvious or not. Other pills can smell sometimes, not just these thyroid pills.

          • Pamela

            I can personally attest to the fact that compressed air–the kind marketed to clean dust of a computer keyboard–can transfer a super nasty taste to the fingers of the keyboard user. So I can easily imagine that an air blast release might explain the repugnant taste and smell of the pills.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Interesting analogy, Pamela!

      • Melody

        I know Wikipedia isn’t a medical site. Here is 1 paragraph about canned air/duster. If you think further about adding this to pills, there is bound to be moisture to some extent in the cans. Could it be that this is destroying the good that is in the pills, once they get a little damp?

        Since gas dusters are one of the many inhalants that can be easily abused, many manufacturers have added a bittering agent to deter people from inhaling the product. Because of the generic name “canned air”, it is mistakenly believed that the can only contains normal air or contains a less harmful substance (such as nitrous oxide, for example). However, the gases actually used are denser than air, such as difluoroethane. When inhaled, the gas displaces the oxygen in the lungs and removes carbon dioxide from the blood causing the user to suffer from hypoxia which results in the euphoric feeling abusers desire. This type of inhalant abuse can cause a plethora of negative effects including brain and nerve damage, paralysis, serious injury, or death.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Your comment was apparently sent to spam and I just found it and “undid” the spam designation. Sorry about that. It’s very interesting.

          Reply
    • Just Me

      @Matt, We are definitely NOT exaggerating and to suggest that is highly offensive and dismissive. Shall I tell you about the extreme chemical burn in my alimentary canal due to the “New” NP? Please don’t make blanket statements simply because you may have the older batch.

      Reply
      • LB

        I agree! It is very dismissive, and seems to imply (to me) that it is women who are exaggerating and complaining about this. I’ve tasted all kinds of bad tasting/smelling foods and health supplements in my time traveling the world without complaint, but my first whiff of this “new” NP smelled and tasted very much like chemicals or the cat pee of many complaints. However, I found very little of the smell lingered in my refills after I put a desiccant pack in the bottle, although the taste was still a bit off.

        Reply
        • matt

          On average, mens sense of smell is not as great as womens, That is why I wrote that. And you automaticaly asumed I was putting down women? Jumping on that pretty fast there arent you? My batch looks and smells different than any NP Ive had for four years running. It was ordered in for me late August as they had none in stock.

          Reply
          • Emily

            Matt, I’m sorry to say that whether you are aware of it or not, your statement did come across as dismissive. My husband is also “a guy”, but one with a strong sense of smell, so when I asked him what my recently refilled tablets smelled like to him, his response was “cat piss” (we have cats, so we are well familiar with that smell). Please remember that many of us are here because doctors and others did not believe our symptoms but we got better when we found answers here, so perhaps if we are a bit sensitive to being told that some of us are “over exaggerating”, it is because we are tired of not being heard or believed.

        • Margarita

          Matt’s comment was not an attack on women. By saying “some” does not equal “women”. I am a woman, and I do not see anything dismissive or offensive in the post. Maybe it’s time for some to recheck their adrenals…

          Reply
    • Ana

      Matt, are you working for Acella?

      Reply
      • Sandy

        I first began taking thyroid medications 20+ years ago. I was prescribed Synthroid originally, & took T4-only meds (Synthroid, Levothroid, etc) for 15+ years. However, I kept feeling worse & worse, to the point that I was almost non-functional. My chiropractor told me about the STTM book, which I purchased & read. Then I had to find a doctor who would prescribe NDT. I finally found an endocrinologist who reluctantly prescribed 1 grain of Armour, but wouldn’t do more lab work for 2 months & therefore wouldn’t increase my dosage. I felt so much better on it that I thought maybe that was all I needed. Unfortunately, just as the STTM book says will happen, after a while, I started feeling bad again. I finally found a doctor who would allow me to gradually increase my dosage by 15 mg per week, & did so until I reached 3 grains. I felt much better on that dosage, & the doctor was pleased with the lab work. I honestly don’t know if I was optimal on that dosage, based on the STTM recommendations, or not, because I just relied on what the doctor told me at that time. At some point I was changed to NatureThroid, I think due to insurance, & continued to do pretty well on that until the issue with not being able to get it. At that point, I was changed by my current nurse practitioner to NP Thyroid. I felt pretty well on it, & was very close to optimal until my latest refill. I always thought it had a very strong smell, much stronger than the other NDTs I’d taken. But when I got the new one, it had hardly any smell. Also, instead of being pure white like it had previously been, it was now light gray with dark speckles. By this time, I had read about the changes here, but hoped I’d still do OK on it. Before too long though, my symptoms returned, & I felt like I was heading back toward that almost non-functional place. I contacted my nurse practitioner’s office a couple of different times concerning this, & after explaining how terrible I felt & how desperate I was becoming, she sent in a prescription for Armour for me. It took a while before I could get it because my insurance wouldn’t pay for it yet, since it was too soon after I’d had the NP Thyroid filled. I was finally able to start taking it on October 11, & I’m feeling so much better about the last week or so. I haven’t had labs done yet, so I don’t know yet whether I’m optimal or not, but I’m so glad to be feeling better again. I hope it continues! I appreciate all of the good info that’s available from STTM!

        Reply
  117. Jen

    Has anyone been using Thyrogold and can attest that it’s not falling to the same fate as the prescribed NDT? I’m interested in trying it, but am worried that it too will start to suffer in it’s potency. This whole situation IS disgusting, Janie. I feel like I had my life back for a whole 2 years only to have it ripped away again.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      The OTC natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold are not falling the same fate. Prescription NDT’s were not from New Zealand as these are.

      Reply
    • sam

      ive been using thyrogold for mayeb 10 or 8 years now . after 5 yeasrs of worhtless synthroid . i havent started the new looking bottle [ white with back lettering ] the old one s have navy blue label[ 300 ] or medium blue 150]

      ill try the new one soon to see if any differnet
      i still do have some problems with fatigue and weight gain but wiht out taking anyhting was exhasuted . i buy it because i refuse to buy GMOS adn pretty s ure the other pharmecutical stuff is from GMO fed pigs [ factory farmed too probably ]

      did have very bad adrenal fatigue several yeasr ago think still have it jsut not as bad as was .
      i wonder if i never started tkaing synthroid 15 or so years ago if my thyroid woudl have gone back to normal after a stressful year .thats what happened to a freind of mine . but i was bullied or talked into taking it by a dr who i never should have listened to! and they wonder why we dont trust drs and dislike them !

      Reply
  118. Marylynn Caldwell

    I’ve recently gone from 2 1/2 grains of NDT to T4/T3 synthetic. For years I’ve wanted to get back on 3 grains of NDT but met resistance because I’m 76. So because my Rt3 was high, I managed to get my compounding pharmacist and nurse practitioner working together to adjust my dose on synthetic and I’m now 30 micrograms of synthetic T3  which is even a little more than the equivalent  of 3 grains of NDT and less T4 (83 micrograms) . Finally. I actually feel better on the synthetic than I did on the natural. Probably because they were messing around with it. So I think you’re on the right track.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Marylynn, one grain of NDT is equal to 25 micrograms of T3.

      Reply
    • Mary Ann Z

      I use naturethroid. For the last year, I have had maybe 1 good batch of NDT.
      It may not be the way they make it however.
      Perhaps the source ingredients are ineffective.
      My son who is in medical school suggested that if the pigs the thyroid glands are taken from are
      hypothyroid, the NDT will not be very effective. I don’t know what’s going on but I keep buying more and more bottles hoping I’ll get a good one, sigh!

      Reply
  119. Karen H

    Hi Janie,
    I feel kind of sheepish about this, but I just got my thyroid blood tests results and everything is optimal. Free T4 slightly above the middle of the normal range, Free T3 high normal, and TSH almost undetectable. I too have been feeling extremely fatigued and having some return of hypo symptoms. I was pretty sure the cause was the “new” NP. B12 was optimal. The only thing that had gone down a bit, but was still well within the normal range was Ferritin. I’ve been on the new stinky NP since May of this year. So now I’m confused as to whether the changes are as dramatic as I had thought. I would hate to return to synthetics, as I found cytomel to be EXTREMELY over-stimulating relative to the NDT T3.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No need to feel sheepish. We want to learn from each other. Are you saying that you have felt extremely fatigued and a return of hypo symptoms since May and to the current day? Also, do you know that all NDT (unless there is a strong coating) are a little stinky? What patients are reporting is a massive amount of terrible stink.

      Reply
      • Karen H

        My lot numbers match up with two of the ones on the list. I take 15 (1/4) and 30 (1/2) grain tablets. I don’t chew the tablets up, but I did notice an extra strong odor on the new 30s.

        My symptoms aren’t as extreme as many of the people who have written in and consist mainly of fatigue, feeling cold and some muscle heaviness. It may also be exacerbated by the weather as we head into fall.

        Reply
    • Sarie

      Karen, what was your Reverse T3? The Frees can appear optimal, but if Reverse is high we’re not getting T3 into the cells 💗

      Reply
  120. Meg Chrisler

    Janie, this is such a great site and has always been helpful; HOWEVER, please define certain terms when they are first used. I’ve referred several friends of mine to this site and they are discouraged because too many abbreviations are used without defining them. We all are bombarded by abbreviations and acronyms in this busy world and it would really make reading your site much easier, especially for newbies who are dealing with thyroid disease. Keep up the great work!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Meg. I have added the words “Natural Thyroid Hormones” before NDT and also added “Stop the Thyroid Madness” before STTM. At the very beginning. 🙂 For future reference for others: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/acronyms

      Reply
      • Jenn

        I’m confused because I thought Erfa was still working for people & I planned to switch to that although I’m in US. If Erfa changed in past I thought I heard that Erfa went back to the original & was concerned about the change even asking patients effected to give them batch #s in order to fix the problem. Am I wrong with this information? Can anyone explain more on Erfa? I spoke to a pharmacist from an online Canadian pharmacy & she said she looked into this when Armour changed & many US patients then switched to Erfa. If Erfa is also no good then I will have to find something else.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Jenn, if you want to try and make Erfa work, you are supported!! This info is about people who used to be on it, then saw a terrible return of their hypothyroid symptoms after something changed. It’s the latter that at different times is being referred to. And it’s been very unclear how people are really doing since then.

          There are some people on every single of these once changed NDTs that feel they are doing well. Sure hope that is true.

          Reply
          • Gina

            If you remember this itching thing started with the new erfa a few years back too… Listen Janie I can’t even believe I logged on today to see this new article from you. I have been telling you this for YEARS now. The thyroid powder is no longer made in the US and none of the manufacturers are being honest about where they are getting it from OR if it is even really porcine thyroid powder at all! It is well known that China are the great imitators and this is clearly no different. I have also noticed from my own research that many of the pig farmers are not allowed to sell us the pig thyroids anymore. Something is definitely up! Since you have so many readers now, AND so many suffering, including yourself, can you please organize this group to start having these damn pills tested? Let’s find out what is REALLY in them together. Can we come together and do this now? It will be affordable if we all chip in for the cost. There is NO known safe porcine thyroid powder producer left on the planet that I can find. Russ really has me thinking about the duck thyroid… hmmm.. I wonder if it could work?

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Gina, it’s only been a few years since the one US manufacturer stopped making it. And NP was using a private source, and it worked…until now.

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