The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients

The Change of Natural Desiccated Thyroid in 2019 is bad
The life-changing prescription NDTs are not that they used to be…

I never thought that I’d be writing this, but evidence underscores that all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have gone south/changed from what they used to be.

Where’s the evidence? It’s from many patients who were doing well on each one for years, then saw their symptoms go south, including seeing changes in the tablet at the same time.

  • ARMOUR by Allergan--which for years (before Allergan bought out Forest) was always a consistent and excellent NDT, was the first that patients noticed had made a change in 2009. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypo. 2015 also saw a problem. See the September, 2015 Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) blog post.
  • ERFA Canada’s NDT in Canada, which many in the US moved over to after Armour went south, went south in 2014--there were vast reports of a return of hypo symptoms after it had been a great product before. And of course, Erfa stated they changed nothing. Here’s my blog post.
  • NATURETHROID by RLC Labs, which gave excellent results for years, seemed to royally change in 2018 when it came back out after a hiatus. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way when they got back on. See that blog post here. WP Thyroid seems to have gone downhill as well, reported by “some” patients. We need more feedback to see if for others, it can work again. Remember it’s about being optimal, not just “how you feel”.
  • NP THYROID, the last remaining consistent and excellent NDT by Acella Pharmaceuticals, seemed to change horribly in the summer of 2019. Patients started to report a miserable return of hypo symptoms. But it didn’t end there. Patients also reported a slew of other terrible symptoms, ranging from nausea, burning in stomach, allergic reactions, flu-like symptoms and more depending on who was reporting. Also reported is a highly repulsive taste and rank smell (many patients comparing it to cat pee or kitty litter). My blog post about this here.

And the pharmaceuticals don’t seem to give a damn, exclaim patients!

Sadly, when hypothyroid patients reported contacting each pharmaceutical about the return of their hypo symptoms as well as other strange symptoms, the pharm replies were similar: “We didn’t change anything”. That line was especially true for Erfa, RLC Labs and now Acella, say patients. Some patients have cried “Foul!” and compared it to gaslighting and dismissal.

Or, after patients reported to Acella about a strong return of hypothyroid symptoms on top of the clearly changed tablets, the first seemingly official Acella-reply never even mentioned the horrible symptoms, and simply underscored that “it is normal for tablet colors to be different between batches and have a slight smell’. No, say the majority of patients, the new smell was far worse than any NDT all these years, besides being repulsive, as is the taste. Many patients have compared the smell to kitty litter or cat pee. See patient comments as to what was happening to them on this blog post.

At the time of this writing, not ONE pharmaceutical has done a thing to return these NDT’s to their former, consistent and smooth excellence which once changed our lives, or even considered or admitted that their product was no more what it used to be…or cared. Said one patient in a group “They remind me of the three monkeys.”

It’s all about the money, not about you.

“But I feel good on the changed prescription NDT’s”…

Here are four things we’ve noticed when someone says that….

1) They are still on the former good NP Thyroid (at the time of this writing)

2) They do “feel better” on certain NDT brands which are proven to have gone south. But there’s a failure to understand that “feeling better” may be the result of an increase in adrenaline due to still being hypothyroid because of the changes to these brands. We have seen this a lot lately. And their labs (free T3 and free T4) reveal the truth i.e. if the free T3 is midrange (non-optimal) or lower, or the FT4 is low, yet one feels good, it’s usually the adrenaline release.

3) They are combining a low dose of NP Thyroid with higher doses of T3. They may not notice what’s been going on with others since their NP dose is so low, and their T3 is helping.

4) Or an unknown, since so many are not doing well. We need to continue figuring this out….

So what are our options now?

If like so many, you are having problems or never seeing a resolution of your hypothyroid state (like we used to on NDT), we have no choice but to change our meds….AGAIN. And remember, you still have to be optimal. Here are your options if you want to change:

  • Synthetic T3 with synthetic T4. Yes, they can work for many, but you still have to get optimal. So it’s not about a token small dose of T3 (like 5 mcg) that too many doctors will put you on, and leave you on. Doing the FT3 and FT4 is still very important. Note that one grain of NDT has approx. 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 (this was inadvertently backwards in those who get an email notification. Forgive me). So a switch to the two synthetics can be made based on that, and in a few weeks, retesting the free T3 and free T4. Also take the time in groups to ask others what T3 has been working for them, whether they are swallowing or chewing it up, etc. (For example, the Mayne version has been awful for many patients. So you have to decide if you want it for you. There are other brands.)
  • Natural thyroid “supplements” like Thyrogold, Thyrovanz and others like them. And remember that even on these, you will have to be optimal, not just “on them”. If there is a problem getting optimal on the over-the-counter supplements (you are still too low) some report adding T3 to the natural thyroid supplements. Two comments: 1) We lean towards NOT purchasing those over-the-counter natural thyroid supplements that also contain spleen, adrenals, liver, etc. 2) There are occasional incidences, with labs to prove it, of the free’s going quite high on doses of Thyrovanz that aren’t high doses. So WATCH your frees, just in case.
  • Thai versions of NDT like Thyroid-S Yes, there are an awful lot of fillers, so check them out and decide. Thyroid-S is listed in blue about 1/5th of the way down.
  • Being on T3-only Yes it works well, but most need to multi-dose it at least three times a day, 3-4 hours a part, to counter the lack of T4 converting to T3 behind the scenes. And some add a small dose at bedtime.
  • Compounded Thyroid There do appear to a few compounding pharmacies who are using a perhaps good source of NDT. If you know of one and you are optimal on it, comment below.

Please use this information in working with your doctor if you can. Or find a better one to work with.

I, Janie Bowthorpe, am disgusted by this.

Disgusted that the last consistently excellent NDT by Acella also went down the drain as experienced and reported by a wide variety of patients.

Disgusted by the dismissals by pharmaceuticals when patients report all their returned symptoms and even new and awful symptoms.

Disgusted that they will simply say “we changed nothing” when clearly each NDT did change as reported by patients seeing a return of symptoms with changed tablets.

Disgusted that not even one pharm acknowledges something went wrong, and thus, no changes to the NDT.

Disgusted that we now have this problem on top of doctors who can’t see past their noses about the right use of the former NDT or T3 in the first place.

Disgusted that some facilities are even refusing to test the free T3 and free T4, which are VERY important in finding our right dose of whatever we are on. Or refusing to the test the reverse T3, which is also VERY important.

Disgusted that one pharmaceutical representative may have said that this is all just social media hysteria. Unbelievable.

Disgusted that those in Europe and elsewhere are under a medical system which makes it nearly impossible to get T3, or thinks a TSH up to 10 is fine and dandy.

Disgusted that too many of the over-60 wonderful patients can’t get US medicare to pay for NDT, to pay for T3, both which CHANGE LIVES.

Disgusted by the implication that our wonderful over-60 thyroid patients should be on only T4, or off needed thyroid meds.

I am totally and thoroughly disgusted.

But let’s not be silent about this!

Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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194 Responses to “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients”

  1. Judy

    I know this is of little comfort to all the patients taking NP Thyroid…my husband being one of them, but…I emailed Acella pharma. last week and got a call the next day from “Steve” at Acella. He asked many questions over the period of 10 minutes. He was typing the whole time …hopefully my answers to his questions. He asked me if I had any questions and of course I asked if they had any idea as to what’s going on. He said that they are looking at the change in supplier of the raw porcine. I know this is what you have heard also…my reason for writing is…everyone on NP with the return of symptoms, needs to email Acella with their contact info. so Steve can also contact them. Maybe with a boat load of complaints, they will get serious about this problem!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Anddddd they need to change the cat piss coating on the pills, they need to bring back the sweet taste, they need to bring it back to being softer…..all the many changes they don’t seem to want to talk about…

      Reply
  2. Gem

    Janie,
    So are you saying that good Naturethroid would have been dispensed before 2018? I have some from Jan. and August 2018, but don’t know how effective they are now. Is it safe to take any newly dispensed Naturethroid now? Are there any distinguishing characteristics (smell, color, etc. ) to look for to alert me not to use them?

    Reply
  3. Gem

    Janie,
    I am understanding that all the brands are affected. If so, then are there lot #’s for the Naturethroid? My pharmacy has some on the shelf but we don’t know whether it is good. On the bottles it does say “made in the usa.” Is there any way to tell if it is good?
    On the compounding issue, which pharmacies are providing this and where is their powder coming from?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      We didn’t collect lot numbers when they came back bad. But if you got yours before 2018, it may be the former good version of naturethroid.

      Reply
  4. Sabrina Schön

    Does anyone know if American Labs Inc. are still producing desiccated porcine thyroid glands?

    Reply
  5. Yesii

    So my dr prescribed compounded synthetic t3/t4 . I am getting it mailed from a compounding pharmacy in Florida to my state, Arizona. Doctor wants me to have labs again in 4 weeks. I cant take this inconsistency in the new NP, some days all I want to do is sleep and some days I’m having palpitations. Another reason, is who knows what they are putting in these tablets now that they are getting their source from Europe.

    Reply
    • Dedee

      Yesii, I’m sorry you are having these problems. I am just trying to figure mine out. It sounds like you have a good endocrinologist in AZ somewhere – so I’m wondering if you could please share his/her name? I’m having quite a challenge with finding a doctor who is open to working with patients rather than dictating his/her knowledge “at” a patient. Thank you.

      Reply
      • Yesi

        Hi,
        I fired my local endocrinologists, I found a Nurse Practioner who specializes in hormones (she does hormone pellets) but also sees patients for medical care, (through insurance.) This is my second time seeing her but she has been attentive so far and has worked with me. I’m not sure if I can name her practice, if Janie says it’s ok I will. Just so you know its not in the Phoenix area, I’m in a smaller town about 2.5 to 3 hours from Phoenix or Tucson.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          You can! 🙂

          Reply
          • Leann

            Thyroid cancer had me on Lev for 5 years of sloth-life. I just got STTM in the mail today. I was so excited as I started writing notes for my doctor only to find no available prescription desiccated thyroid available worthy. Janie, what are you hearing is the best in usa after these last few weeks of disappointment?

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            The bottom line is that none of them are the consistently good products they used to be. Yes, some patients will state “I feel good” on this one or that one. But they are never optimal (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal) which is the only way to maintain the feel goods, and some state they can’t even get there without problems. They are just not the same.

            The ONLY one we wonder if it could still work, even though it’s far inferior to the great NDT it used to be, is Armour. We’re waiting for someone to reveal their frees on it.

      • Yesi

        Aura Grace Medical Group
        Tammy Slade Florez N.P.
        Yuma,Az
        928 318 6910

        Reply
  6. Sue Prytherch

    Sorry.. this is a continuation from the above post…. And since apparently, the FDA doesn’t require for them to disclose where they get their raw materials, this is probably what is happening, and they can tell us that their “formula” has not changed. With the recent news of a deal made with China by President Trump’s administration, one of the news organizations mentioned hogs and what is going on with hogs in China. Apparently there has been swine flu there and great numbers of their hogs have been wiped out. Leaving the Chinese to import their pork from the United States recently, and from other countries as well. Possibly, hogs with swine flu have had their thyroids removed, and the Chinese have continued to sell this powder to our drug companies. I hope I do not sound like a crazy person, but my mom’s cat died from the pet food debacle of the Chinese pet food a few years back, so I am extremely skeptical of Chinese products, and with good reason. Even if swine flu in China is not a factor, I think we can all agree, that the quality control of items from China is questionable. So, what can we do, as thyroid patients.

    I am wondering if we can somehow contact a representative with the American Hog Farmers (I am not sure what this association might be called). I do not know how this would unfold, but certainly, their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China. Perhaps the American Hog farmers will be on our side and will yield a bigger voice somehow. I am sure we are perhaps just at the beginning of trying to figure this out, but perhaps that is a direction we can try.

    One last thought. Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway? It should not be anymore of a “drug” than caffeine, or any number of supplements you find in your local health food store. Perhaps we can partner with some American company who makes supplements and suggest to them that they start making a desiccated thyroid supplement only from American pig thyroid powder (and advertise it as such). I know that would be a huge project to start, but it is food for thought. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Maybe instead of trying to communicate with Drug companies who do whatever they want to, we could go to the source of American pig thyroid Powder and work at a new solution. Thanks for reading this. I welcome your thoughts.

    Reply
    • Gina

      Here’s the thing… If you dig a little you will find that all the desiccated thyroid coming out of China is from mixed animals, not specifically just porcine… I’m not sure, but maybe that is the problem with how it has been affecting so many people…anyway, until we test it ourselves we will never get a truthful answer. Is anyone ready to organize and chip in?

      Reply
    • Alex

      Sue Prytherch,

      As for you question: „Why is pig thyroid powder classified as a drug anyway?“
      please read Janie‘s blog https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101/ and try to discovery the story of NDTs on the Internet.

      As for what you say: „…their sales of Pig thyroid powder has decreased for them, because our drug companies are now buying it from China“ , please read the statement from Acella: https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR2hp_ZnWxVsR0YgsgxRSsGxoCvvnLItvddkgA0CHp9cHg-vCUX8DTpeOUo

      Acella says: „The only difference is that the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient (API) is now sourced from an FDA-inspected facility in Europe instead of our former supplier in the U.S.“

      Acella doesn’t buy its API from China!

      Reply
      • Gina

        Alex, I am wondering how the FDA inspects a facility that is outside their US jurisdiction in Europe? Again, If they are not getting their powder from China they should not have any problem telling us the source because until they do, we have to assume they are getting it from the only known manufacturers like everyone else is… It could also be that Acella DOES buy their thyroid powder from Europe BUT that does not mean that it was produced in Europe. Europe could have, and most likely DID, buy it from China! Just like RLC Labs, who was telling everyone they buy their powder from the US not adding that the US was importing it from China!

        Reply
  7. Sue Prytherch

    Hi, Let me throw some things out that I have been thinking of. It seems that most thyroid meds have somehow changed their formula. If you think about the drug industry, it’s all about profit. If they can save money by purchasing their natural desiccated thyroid powder from China, they all have to compete, and I would think it’s all about them saving money. So, the fact that their formula has changed, could very well be that. They may have all changed to a different supplier — from China. To the drug companies, their “formula” has not changed — they are still making their pills from “x” amount of desiccated thyroid powder.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      If I am continually making boxed cakes for a living, and my steps are always about

      1) buying the boxed cake
      2) adding 3 eggs, oil, milk, vanilla
      3) beating 2 minutes,
      then baking at 350 degrees…then I can say I am doing the same thing even still to counter new complaints about my cakes.

      But what is not being said can be this:

      1) I’m buying a different brand of cake mix, so no, it may be totally different in taste and cause problems
      2) The eggs I’m now using come from chickens who are drinking nasty, putrid water
      3) The oil I’m now using has a totally different taste
      4) The milk I’m now using is always on the edge of rancid because my refrig isn’t cooling like it used to
      5) The vanilla I now use is lower quality
      6) I’m using a new oven and it’s heating hotter than 350 degrees, even though it says 350 degrees

      i.e I may be able to say I’m doing the same 3 steps above thing in making the boxed cake, but I’m leaving all the other details out which are ruining my cake.

      Reply
      • Lori

        I’m wondering if they could be using bovine thyroid instead since pigs are currently more expensive, or maybe they are adding larger amounts of filler to stretch it out.

        Reply
  8. Sabrina Schön

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling the original source (not the reseller) of the desiccated Thyroids?

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not telling if their desiccated Thyroids are made only of pigs Thyroid?

    Why are Pharmaceuticals not forced by law to do this?

    Why is it easier to get the information where the pig comes from, when you are buying the meat?

    Reply
  9. Gina

    Ah hah, and where exactly was it privately sourced from? Did they ever tell you that?

    Reply
  10. Russ

    I just called a local Compounding Pharmacy and they told me that they can make bio-identical T3/T4 compound meds that are derived from duck, not porcine. They also use two plant based hypoallergenic fillers.
    Is anybody here using ‘Bio-identical’ T3/T4 compounded meds?
    If so, what is your experience on getting optimal?

    Reply
    • Yesi

      Can you please let us know which pharmacy , I’ve never heard of this

      Reply
      • Russ

        Yesi,
        It’s a Pharmacy near me in Orange County, California. Am I allowed to mention the name on this site?

        Reply
        • Barbara Whitaker

          I’m near Orange County and would love that info as well.

          Reply
          • Russ

            Barbara, I would like to communicate with you.
            How do we exchange Emails privately?

    • Gina

      Russ, Are you in the USA? Are you going to try the duck thyroid? Will they tell you where they get it from?

      Reply
      • Russ

        Gina,
        Yes, I’m in Southern California.
        I’ll call the Pharmacy tomorrow and ask where it it sourced from.
        Not sure if they will tell me but I will ask.

        Reply
        • Gina

          Thanks Russ! I am very excited to learn more about this. I have never heard anything or anyone mention that duck thyroids could help us. I know that pig thyroid is supposedly similar to human thyroid, or the hormones anyway… but I cannot find anything about using duck thyroid for this purpose anywhere online… Anyone else???

          Reply
          • Russ

            OK, this is strange.
            The pharmacist told me that the compounded meds can be made from materials sourced from the duck feathers, not duck thyroids, and even from hair.
            She said they are bio identical but technically a synthetic.
            When asked where they sourced their materials she could only tell me that it was from an FDA approved supplier and she did not know the country of origin.
            I starting to feel like we are all just guinea pigs in some sinister lab experiment……

          • Yesi

            Can you please give the pharmacy name, Interesting concept Id like to know more about for future reference if needed.

  11. Beth

    I was on Armour for almost 20 years, I switched to NP because of insurance formulary list changes. NP has been good, but I did note that the current batch smells weird. It also does not match the color and shape of previous pills from NP. Fortunately, I keep a 90 day supply on hand. I am thinking of going to a synthetic when I see my doctor in a few weeks.

    American Laboratories used to be the sole supplier in the US for porcine thyroid powder. Per their website, they are no longer offering this product. When NP states that they are now getting their porcine powder from the EU, they fail to tell us which country. My research led me to only find a supplier in Argentina and China. China is a huge concern. Bloomberg news has been running a series of reports on generic drugs and raw materials coming from China and India. In India there are about 600 pharmaceutical companies and only 17 FDA inspectors. Never mind if the drug is effective, but other things like rat droppings,etc, have been found. China is not much better. Most of the fentanyl is coming from China in the US Mail.

    Is anyone else concerned about this and other drugs? When you buy a avocado now, grocers are required to tell you where that avocado is sourced. We need to do the same with Pharmaceuticals.

    Reply
    • Amy Lynn

      Wow Beth, that is scary/interesting about the porcine thyroid powder. I’ve asked Acella in an email exactly which country in Europe it is from and as you can expect, I received no answer. Why the secrecy when we’re putting this into our bodies? I agree!

      Reply
  12. Sheila Anderson

    I feel great on WP Thyroid when I can get it. Trouble is that the RLC website gives availability for Nature Throid which does not work for me but is silent on when WP Thryoid will become available. I keep calling many of the pharmacies listed on their site, but no one seems to know anything. Wondering if you have heard anything. I am using some old WP Thryroid which turned brown and is several years old plus some Nature Throid (about 8 months old) and trying to hold on but I really need to know if WP Thyroid is going to be shipped again or if I need to get some compounded version of this — sooner rather than later. I will be out of my old stuff within a month and beginning to feel desperate. Why won’t RLC just let us know about WP Thyroid’s expected shipping date? It’s not like this is optional!

    Reply
    • Criss

      Our local compounding pharmacy carries WP now and I’ve switched my son over to it..waiting to see. We used to get it through Walmart, but not anymore.

      Reply
  13. Jeanne

    Any news on NP thyroid? Any statements from Acella? I’ve scoured the internet and come up with absolutely NOTHING!… except here. I’m taking the new whiter pills, feeling like I’m gaining weight, but scale says no. Maybe it’s just bloating me… also fighting constipation…resting heart rate a little lower in the morning…starting on the second week of it.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Basically all that is coming from Acella is denial, minimizing, whitewashing, passing the buck, and failure to touch certain topics with a ten foot pole.

      Reply
      • Kim

        There gonna be sorry they changed because we will continue to look for whatever will make us feel better even if that means going back to synthetic

        Reply
  14. Sage

    I have read lately that Levothyroxine can perpetrate tachycardia…!

    Is that true?

    Thank you

    Reply
  15. Yesi

    New labs on np thyroid 150 :

    TSH: 0.009. reference range .450-4.500

    Free t3: 6.0. Reference range 2.0-4.4

    Free t4: 1.34. Reference range .82-1.77

    Liver Ast: 55 reference range 0-40

    Liver Alt: 65 reference range 0-32

    I Do not feel Hyper; tired and constipated, fuzzy brain

    Janie any thoughts?
    Do mildly elevated liver enzymes corelate to thyroid disease?

    I’m asking my dr for compounded synthetic T3/T4 , but dont know what I should ask for, I remember doing best on Naturethroid 146.25 before they went down hill.

    Reply
  16. Angi

    Thank you for this article. I fought and fought through 4 different dr’s to be put on NDT. Have been on NP thyroid for several months and have been feeling worse and worse. Labs confirmed it is just not keeping me regulated. ThyCa in 2015. So it was a big fight getting anyone to switch me from synthroid..Now, I will be going back on the synthroid but will be asking for t3 as well. We’ll see! I am glad to see the article and know that it was not all in my head.

    Reply
  17. Judy

    Hi everyone

    If there is anyone that is taking thyroid S and has been on it for at least a couple of months, or a year. Can you comment on how it’s working.
    If optimal, is it working well. This is for anyone

    I would really be grateful for any information that anyone can provide

    Thanks!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Judy. There have been many people over the years who do quite well on Thyroid-S! 🙂 Just remember this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • Judy

        Thanks Janie

        Reply
        • Louise Leech

          Im disgusted. Im 4 yrs out of work after Levo stopped working for me. Has taken me nearly 2+ yrs to find a Dr to prescribe NDT or believe it was my thyroid. Naturethroid then stopped working after 11 mths, switched to NP. Was titrating up when I started feeling horrendously hypo June 19 onwards. Also experiencing full body hives and allergic rashes. Im in limbo now. My bld tests look optimal with high FT3 and midrange FT4 but Im so ill. Hoping to switch to T3 only

          Reply
    • Russ

      Judy,
      Before you place your order, make sure to ask if Thyroid S is still able to be shipped to the USA.
      I can’t remember where I read it but deliveries from Thailand to the USA might not be available anymore.

      Reply
  18. Kathy Kennedy

    Thanks for all your comments. I’m trying to figure out what to do now. Until a few weeks ago I was on 3 grains of Armour. Blood tests showed Free T3 was below range and Free T4 was at the bottom of range. I knew I needed to take afternoon naps again. Doc switched me to 195mg of Naturethroid (Wp was t available) and I am now fully symptomatic. I’ve now added back in 45mg of Armour in addition to the Naturethroid and am sleeping less (12 hours a day instead of 18 hours a day). Doc says talk to the pharmacy, who knows nothing.

    Reply
  19. Maria

    As per the many posts about bad reactions to the new ndt sourcing I have the same severe and horrible reactions to the new ndt now available. I was fine with the older wp-thyroid. Since it became unavailable I took the naturethroid and became very ill with multiple reactions. I then found a pharmacy in Pennsylvania “village compounding pharmacy“ that had almost pure ndt with only 1 natural filler. And again a bad reaction. I believe it is not the fillers or additives in the various ndt products it’s the PCCA source that is now faulty. Has anyone researched a new sourcing that is clean? Is there a population in the world that is using ndt from a good source and not getting sick from it?? I am desperate now. As well as many other bad effects i have severe head and stomache pain from these new ndt stocks.

    Reply
  20. Jenny

    I have lab work coming up. I take both Naturethroid and np thyroid (which does stink). I currently split my thyroid dose taking it in the morning and at night. Previously, I thought you recommended to move the nighttime dose to the afternoon, but now I see it is recommended to skip the nighttime dose? Sorry, I am confused and want to make sure I test accurately. Thanks so much!

    Reply
  21. Marie

    Janie-
    When we added extra T3 to my NP last spring, it helped some, but my FT4 was below midpoint. My doctor just wanted to add more T3 since I still had symptoms, but I was worried about the low FT4. The only option she gave me to get both 3 & 4 was to bump my NP by 1/4 grain. 🙁 No improvement, obviously. Is there a danger in not having enough T4, if only supplementing T3? I figure T4 must have *some* purpose, if we need to keep our FT4 at a certain level. Does the body need T4 for anything other than conversion to T3?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No, for years, patients have done just fine if they chose the T3-only route and got optimal. It’s not harmful that it also means the free T4 is quite low. You just have to multi-dose approximately every 4 hours for 3 doses. Some might take a teeny amount at bedtime, too. Optimal for years has put the free T3 at the top when on T3-only, very occasionally slightly over.

      Reply
  22. Maree

    I’m in Australia. Our NDT is not in a tablet form, it is compounded at a local pharmacy and comes in capsules.
    I had not read about the medications changing until today and it explains a lot about why I’ve been feeling crap lately and went to my GP last week.
    I pay $110AUD for 100 capsules of 2.5 Grains.
    Is the compound medicines compromised too?

    Reply
  23. Yesi

    Anyone here using compounded synthetic T3/T4 with good results, if so where are you getting it from and cost?

    Reply
  24. Betty

    What do you all plan on doing now that NP has changed? I am not sure what to go on. I still have a couple of weeks of my old np and than nothing. I was thinking about nature throid. Is anyone doing well on it? I know it has changed, but armour is too much for me right now. Any advice?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No, Naturethroid is the worst on to get on when you see how badly people went hypothyroid after it came out.

      Below are alternatives and remember to get optimal with your frees. It’s not about just being anywhere on them.

      1) Adding synthetic T4 to synthetic T3
      2) T3-only, multi-dosed
      3) Natural Thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al
      4) Compounded thyroid
      5) Thai version of NDT

      Reply
      • Betty

        Thanks. I was on nature throid before they changed it and was great. After the new batch I went more hypo and changed to NP and was great. I am getting tired of changing It is hard for me just to get my Doctor to give me these type of drugs, they want me on synthroid, even though I have problems with it too. Sometimes just want to give up all together on thyroid drugs.

        Reply
      • Ann

        I am curious if others have found success with Amour as of late…..I know its expensive and it sounds like you may need to take more but does it have any known problems with it? (As in manufacturing, etc.)

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It’s a hard call. We see some who as they raised Armour to try and get optimal, they had problems. Other say they are fine, but we honestly can’t tell if they are optimal. We have to be optimal to not lose the “fine”. Right now, we’re just not sure since it went downhill.

          Reply
          • Betty

            I don’t think I will ever go on armour again. I had very bad panic attacks from it all the years I was on it and did not know it was causing it til I went off and went on Naturethroid. The panic attacks slowly went away and I never had them on Np either. I lost so much of my life due to those panic attacks for almost 25 years while on armour.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            How strange because pre-2009, it was an excellent NDT.

    • Betty

      I started amour in 1983 and about two years afterward developed panic attacks and was housebound for years. I learned to cope with them, but they still ruled my life. A few years ago I was changed to nature throid,right before they changed it and the panic attacks and anxiety attack went away. I still cannot explain, it was the only thing that changed in my life. I do not take any other drugs. I went on NP last year and no panic attacks.

      Reply
  25. Shelley Ross

    My current prescription for 210mcg for 100 pills: $248
    Hopkinton Drug Compounding Department

    Reply
  26. Angie B

    Confused!
    I was diagnosed hypothyroid in 2006. Started out with the usual generic Synthroid. Did my research when I felt like death and actually got the doc to prescribe Armour. Did awesome on that and stayed on it for a little while after the reformulation. Switched to Naturethroid and once again did awesome until the reformulation and my hair started falling out so went on NP and didn’t feel all that much better so tried compounded. That was a big no so I stuck it out with the NP. All the time I’ve been on NDT it has smelled. Even the pharmacy tech asked how I could stand it. Never thought much of it. I picked up a new script of NP today and there is absolutely no smell. Maybe faint if you take a big whiff. Asked my hubby to smell the difference and he’s saying my old stuff smells like ammonia or cat urine. Funny thing is it has smelled like this for a long time. I even have an old bottle in the freezer that smells the same. So now what do I do? This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. Ughhhhhhh

    Reply
    • Betty

      Mine was the same way and new one had little smell. I tried it and I stared to itch. Can’t take it and stopped. Now will have to go on something else.

      Reply
    • matt

      “This new script has no smell and looks whiter than what I’ve been taking. ” – which is the opposite of others reviews here; (speckled and stinky).

      Proof there are obvious inconsistencies in NP.

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Matt, I’d like to chat with you and Karen in a group email about your good labs on NP. But the email doesn’t work that you are using here. Can you contact me via this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/contact and give me an email that I can include with Karen’s for a group chat?

        Reply
        • Betty

          Mine are speckled, but no smell.

          Reply
          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Same as my husband’s NP pills–no smell, tiny specks. And he’s been going downhill on them for 6-8 weeks. We just didn’t know why until it clicked last week that even these NP’s have something wrong.

      • Angie B

        Great! Looks like I may have to go back to compounded after my old NP is gone. I’ve had the urge to go off thyroid meds completely to see how I do. I don’t foresee it getting any better in the future. The FDA and Big Pharma have us where they want us!!!

        Reply
  27. Jamie

    I’ve suffered most of my life with a thyroid issue. Only been treated for past 13 years. Started on brand name Synthroid only to feel like death daily. Switched to NDT about 3 years ago. Felt a little more human but when my meds increase so does my adrenaline and heart palps. Saying I’m disappointed is an understatement. Why can’t they stop messing with EVERYTHING under the sun, moon and stars. They’ve poisoned ALL of our food and now our meds. We’re DOOMED! Come quickly Jesus!

    Ko

    Reply
  28. Matt

    oops, edited and ended up re-posting….

    Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
    Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actually FT4 was a little higher.
    ***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
    Maybe the new batches have inconsistencies among them?
    It was re-bottled, so no lot # ect.
    I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.

    Reply
  29. Matt

    Just had labs done on the newer diff smelling and diff shape NP………………Ready for this?……………….
    Labs are the same as two months ago on “old NP”. Actaully FT4 was a little higher.
    ***No bad symptoms***. This must affect diff people differently. This is 100% for certain NOT the “old” NP.
    Maybe the new batches have inconsistancies among them?
    It was e-bottled, so no lot # ect.
    I take it sublingually……which NO ONE here is stating if they do that or not.

    Reply
    • Karen H

      I had the same experience, Matt. My labs have stayed roughly the same, with Free T4 a little over mid-range and Free T3 at the high end of the range. TSH barely detectable. I do not take mine sublingually.

      Reply
  30. Betty

    Is anyone itching on the new NP? After taking mine I started to itch. I stopped taking it and after a day the itching went away. Took it this morning and the itching is back.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, some have mentioned itching as well as a variety of strange symptoms they never had on the previous unchanged NP. It’s gone downhill in the worst way.

      Reply
      • Betty

        I called Acella and told them what happen. They ask me a few questions and than the batch number. I gave them that and they also want me to send them a couple of the pills back to them at their expense. Someone else is suppose to call me and ask me more questions. I have called the Doctor and requested to be put back on Nature throid. The only problem I had with it was that my tests would go up and down. If that happens again I can deal with it. If that becomes problem I will go back on armour. I will just have to find the money to buy it. So sad. I was doing so good on NP.

        Reply
        • Karen H.

          At least Naturethroid is still sourced and manufactured in the US and Canada.

          Reply
  31. LINDA

    I posted this in another thyroid group after reading the post.
    Yep, she outlines the path, I had to take “to a T”. Armour, Erfa, and the other brands, in the very same order I moved from one to the next. Only to have each brand begin to slowly stop working for me, and I realize the same happened to many others, so many others.

    NDT’s may well always be around, but good grief, are they worth the effort of trying to get and then have to keep managing on a week to week basis? This is no way to try to live a productive life!

    She also describes what happened to me with the Thyrovanz “There are occasional incidences, with labs to prove it, of the free’s going quite high on doses of Thyrovanz that aren’t high doses. So WATCH your frees, just in case.” I had to stop the Thyrovanz, I think I felt the worse I ever felt on that. (Other than when I was not on any medication, with a TSH just under 100)

    I just spent over 600.00, out of pocket, to meet with an open minded nurse practitioner First thing she said to me was get off that Thyrovanz and now, after seeing my whacky test results (I had ordered and paid for on my own)
    She sent me for 30 blood tests, this morning, that cost 4,580.00 I hope to h*ll and back, my insurance covers those tests! I am to go for six or seven additional tests in two weeks. Again, I hope my insurance does not “wig out” on me and say they are not going to cover that many tests.
    Here I am with insurance- that costs us an arm and a leg, and paying out of pocket for tests, along with professional direction while knowing my medication options are limited, and most of them, are no longer working for many of us.
    Then too, these odd side effects so many are experiencing.
    What the H*LL!??
    End of my rant.

    Reply
  32. Zoe E

    I am new to T4 and T3 usage after using NDT for years and now using Thyrogold for the past 1 year. Can someone point me to the right blog page, facebook page, etc. where I can find recommendations for better working T4 and T3 brands? Thank you so much!

    Reply
  33. Lisa

    Waving ‘hi’ and so disappointed too! I was on Armour 1998 to around 2014 but yes, around 2009-2010, my symptoms worsened. In 2014, I switched to NatureThroid. I’m currently on 3.5 grains of NatureThroid, having my dose increased 2.5 to 3 times, from around 1 to 1.5 grains. My past physician blamed me for not taking my medication right, which is so ludicrous. I know the drill, such as waiting at least an hour to eat. I took my medication religiously too. They also tried to blame my increase in mediation on having low iron, but nope, that wasn’t the issue. For the past year, I’ve had a new physician who has been willing to put me on T3 (I do generic Cytomel), finding my optimal dose is 25 mcg, split into half, taking it twice daily…This is in addition to my 3.5 grains of NatureThroid. I’m seriously pondering if I want to continue with NatureThroid or other NDT meds, since they seem to be so incredibly inconsistent, unreliable, etc. I’m pondering switching to some kind of synthetic T4, in addition to my current regime of T3. This is all so horrible. I feel for all of us thyroid patients actually, regardless of which medication(s) we chose to use. This IS all about the money (*wink, wink*) and well, Big Pharma really sucks.

    Reply
  34. Lucille

    Why do we bother with NDT at all at this point .. on 5 NP Tyroid since March and too many bad symptoms to list .. switched from NatureThyroid due to availability .. switched from Armout due to cost .. Since synthetic T-4 and T-3 available .. Why are we messing with all this garbage that is so difficult to manage due to all the changes . Synthetic T-4 only did not work for me at all .. now that I know synthetic T-3 is available .. why would I want to push to get NDT ..which has been nothing but a nightmare since 2014. I want my life back .. working the NDT is too much work and I’m not understanding why if the synthetics do the same. Why are we driving ourselves crazy .. I’m seriously asking .. am I missing something? I was in emerg room last week with heart rate of 163 .. they told me panic attack .. I take 5 grains a day . Cry all day long and keep getting cold, hot sweats, virus’s, all over itching, allergy like symptoms, achy all over, headaches, blurred vision, nausea even vomiting, stomach and throat burning and other digestive issues.. yes I’m am quite the mess.. with 3 changes in a year running around to keep up with NDT .. I sit here and wonder why not just T-3 (cytomel) or T-4 and T-3. Why is anyone still struggling to stay on a NDT when stable synthetic t4 and t3 meds are available .. that is my question. We are not doctors and we are trying to keep up on all this complicated adrenal, saliva test, cortisol, iron, b-12, frees etc etc .. its mind boggling and making me more confused than ever .. my ‘it’s not rocket science’ comment for the day is .. just go back to synthroid and add T-3, here they do cytomel .. problem solved .. and then my Medicare will cover.. another problem solved .. no more sizing, smelling, tasting, measuring, and lab work every 6 weeks .. ect act .. I’m feel totally insane and calling my doc tomorrow for switch. Am I out of touch by suggesting this .. I mean no disrespect .. just so tired of feeling sick (like I have the flu) all the time. My brother wanted to take me to ER again today cause I felt like I was breaking down .. I am depressed but never like this .. now I read this and think I’m being poisoned with the NP I’ve been taking since March which is about the same time I took a major dive down hill. Respectfully Lucy

    Reply
    • Alex

      Hi Lusy, I am so sorry that you feel so ill… I understand you very well. Last time on NP I felt ill as well.
      However, I would say that 5 grain is a really high dose. Your symptoms you describe could be also symptoms of the hyperfunction, especially your heart rate of 163.
      Could it be your are overdosed on 5 grain? If I were in your place, I would first of all talk to my doctor and order the blood work.

      If you take the synthetic T4 T3 you also should do your blood work every 6-8 weeks

      Reply
      • Just Me

        @Alex No, 5 grains is not a high dose. I switched to Armour and now have to take over 6 grains. I was on 4 grains of NP. It’s not the same and we seem to need MORE pills because something in ALL NDT’s has caused them to be weaker. More pills means more money and it’s looking like that’s the bottom line. Additionally, when our cortisol and iron is optimal, MOST people need 3-5 grains (per STTM book and website as well as other resources.) I am a thyroid patient AND in the medical profession. I know labs, changed medications, symptoms of Hypo (patients can and do have symptoms which aren’t cookie-cutter hypo/hyper.) I have seen people taking doses as high as 10-11 grains on NDT. We need to be optimal in many areas.

        Reply
        • Alex

          Thank you JustMe for your interesting comment. As for me, I have also been on 3,5 NP doing well being optimal with my lubs. Then I changed to 3,5 WP and experienced the same symptoms as when I was hyper with Graves‘ (especially a constant high heart rate) and like Lucy describe her symptoms. I slowly lowered WP dose and with 2,5 grain I feel better, not as well as I felt on 3,5 NP over the last years but better than on 3,5 WP.

          I am absolutely agree with you that we should be optimal in many arias. But… we all are different. Therefore I think the best way for Lucy would be go to her dr and do the blood work and then see.

          Reply
          • Just Me

            Alex, have you seen the great labs which can be ordered here on STTM? Highly recommended. I think everyone is completely frustrated with what’s been happening to NDT… to say the least.

            Lucille, I hope you feel better soon.

    • Tessa

      I feel the same way. Diagnosed with Hashimoto’s a year ago and I never have really felt great on NDT
      . I give up and im.going to try another Endo and see if I can get my life bac. I cant take the exhaustion much longer

      Reply
      • Janie Bowthorpe

        Tessa, if you were on NP, you were probably underdosed. It was always about being optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

        Now all of the NDT’s are not what they used to be. Some patients are still trying to make them work, but experience shows it’s iffy. So others are moving to the natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold, et al, or doing both synthetic T3 with synthetic T4….and getting optimal.

        Endos are obsessed with T4-only and the TSH. Fight against that.

        Reply
  35. Sheila

    I have been on all the NDT’s since 2001. Armour: great till changed. ERFA: absolutely the best till they changed. WP Thyroid was working well and then into a shortage and I used Naturethroid which did not work very well and I again experienced hypothyroid symptoms. WPThyroid became available again earlier this year, and when I can get it, it seems to work pretty well. Key is finding it. I have some old WPThyroid which I never took because it turned brown almost right away after getting it (a couple of years old). Now with WPThyroid impossible to find, I am wondering if this older brown WPThyroid is ok to take. What causes it to turn brown anyway?

    Reply
    • housemaid

      Sheila, I took WP before they quit making it for a year. I would put it in a 7 day pill organizer and it would turn brown when taken out of the bottle it came in which had a dessicant. So I’d say moisture in the air is what turned your pills brown. I think it is worth trying your old WP pills if they were made before they went bad. I had been using some old Nature-throid from Jan. 2016 for a little over a week and they seemed to be working. Then I found an even older bottle of Nature-throid with 30 pills in it from Jan. 2014. I used that for 2 days and crashed. My temperature dropped to 97, my BP fell, and I couldn’t get out of bed. So I went back to the Jan. 2016 Nature-throid and recovered within a day. So just put a dessicant in your old WP pills and give them a try. Desperate situations call for desperate actions! Of course, if your pills stink like the new NP, don’t take them. My old Nature-throid pills are tasteless and odorless.

      Reply
      • Sheila

        Thanks so much. Am alternating days, taking the older brown WP Thyroid one day, and some of the new WP Thyroid I still have trying to stretch it out until WP Thyroid becomes available again (it will become available soon, right?). I appreciate your insight and so far I don’t feel like I’m crashing or anything. Don’t know what I’ll do when it runs out.

        Reply
  36. Alex

    I have also read this new Acella`s comment on FB.

    On the September 11, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:

    Quote: „In the StopThyroidMadness-facebook is a comment from “Rachel Librach Nisenson”, which says, that David Margolis from Acella told her on the phone, that “..the source of the thyroids are from Europe and North America..”.

    So “from Europe” seems new.

    I’m from Europe and I’m sure, that we have NO producers of desiccated porcine thyroids.
    As far as I know, there are 2 companies in Europe, one in Italy, the other in Spain, that are buying desiccated thyroids from South America, testing them and sell them again.“

    Also on the September 9, 2019 Sabrina Schon wrote:

    Quote: „3. We are from Germany, Munich, Metropolitan Pharmacy.“

    I would presume that a person who works in a Pharmacy in Europe should be well informed. This raised the question whether Acella is lying again.

    Reply
  37. Marilyn Turnbull

    Hi, I am new to this group. I read STTM book a few years ago and found it to be very helpful. I had Graves Disease and radiation which took all of my thyroid function and have been on Synthroid and then switched to compounded T3/T4.

    After reading your latest blog “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients” I called my compounding pharmacy and asked for the name of the company which supplies their thyroid hormones. She said it is called Medisca. Formerly they were using Armour. She didn’t know why they switched.

    I am presently in a hyperthyroid state with an elevated T3. I have been using glandulars: Dr. Ron’s Ultra Pure Kidney from New Zealand and Thyro Complex from Endo-met Labs which contains kelp, Bovine thyroid, Porcine adrenal, porcine pituitary and porcine spleen powders and a separate supplement from Endomet Labs, Kelp. I am on a special program to balance the thyroid and adrenal levels and sodium/potassium pump called Nutritional Balancing started years ago by Dr. Paul Eck and is being carried on by Dr. Lawrence Wilson and Dr. Eck’s family continue to run the laboratory which is in Phoenix, Arizona. I’ve been doing well on this program.

    I am 70 years old and lost my thyroid function when I was 35 years old. I have been on the Nutritional Balancing program for six years and a half years and have dumped a ton of heavy metals. I feel the recent increase in my T3 is probably due to too many glandulars. I get my dessicated thyroid hormones in 30 mg. tablets and use my hair analysis to determine my thyroid hormone status. This is done by assessing the calcium/potassium ratio which is the thyroid ratio and the adrenal ratio which is the sodium/magnesium ratio and the vitality ratio by the sodium/potassium ratio AND the oxidation rate. I am presently in slow oxidation and the thyroid meds are not penetrating the cells as they should so in this case I would increase the hormones to 150 mg. per day versus 120 mg. per day. this has worked well until I increased the Thyro Complex. So now I am having panic attacks again. I am wondering if I should leave the thyroid dosage at 150 mg. and stop the Thyro Complex or should I also decrease the thyroid meds to 120 mg. per day until the panic attacks stop.

    Also, how has Medisca been rated by STTM? It’s a scary thing to think we may have been put out to sea in a tiny boat with no anchor.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      That is the facility that provides NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) powder to compounding pharmacies. We really don’t know much about it.

      If you are having panic attacks, might need look into doing a saliva cortisol test, then comparing the results to the Lab Values Page on STTM. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol

      Also, might want to do blood testing for the free T3 and free T4 and compare the the Lab Values page, too.

      Reply
  38. Stephanie Pierce

    So I just saw this on FB, not sure if it has been reported here already, but yeah, they did change sonething, they changed where they sourced their material. https://npthyroid.com/product-updates/?fbclid=IwAR05k-PjRJGIcZn2wFWR8VzSAlaLxZqh6Ag_yq3oODX1oc3enIyKnmrs-HY

    Reply
  39. matt

    For people feeling hypo on this – I am not seeing people mentioning taking this sublingual. If its a coating issue, sublingual, grind up first in cheek then leaving / taking sublingual – takes about 10 imn to absorb should help. My new spotted, taller, diff smelling NP 60’s work fine this way so far. thats how Ive taken many brands of NDT though, zero ill feeling so far.. With past brands (4), I tested/ compared this way, then rertested swallowing. Taking the Sub method always offered slightly higher T4 if mouth is clean- no protine traces.T3 is never changed by protien (impossible), just T4 can be bound to protien.there is ALWAYS for trace protien in gut than mouth if you rinse out your mouth. Cant rinse out your gut LOL. I take twice a day too. TRY It.

    Reply
    • matt

      Of course this is for people going hypo if this new NP has absorbing issues (like Armour and NT in 2009-2010 forward).. If there is other symptoms then this wont do anything. So far this is fine for me. We are all different and maybe not all of the new NP is the same.

      Reply
  40. Kathy

    The option I chose was changing to compound T3 and T4. It was only a few dollars more than NP.

    I had a “conversation” with a rep. from Acella over the phone. I repeatedly told him he was NOT addressing the complaint of taste, color etc. and there was no way the formula was the same. And I would be not be taking NP again.

    Also has anyone else noticed that one of the fillers in NP is calcium stearate?  Several health professionals I listen to recommend taking no calcium, magnesium or zinc until 2-4 hours later!! Maybe the calcium stearate is why my free T4 and free T3 stayed at the bottom of the range!!!

    Kathy S. Lawrence 

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, their line is always along the line of “we changed nothing” and “it’s normal to have differences between batches”. Those of us who have used Acella awhile, or other brands, know very well that there has NEVER been changes like this. What they are not addressing are the myriad of bad reactions and return of hypo symptoms that so many are having. It’s a tragedy and people are responding by refusing to give Acella their money.

      Reply
  41. sam

    does that mean that if you a re still feeling tired and cant lose weight very easily that is ok to take more thyrogold[ or whatevr are taking ] .sometimes if i take a lot more heartrate can be higher but you mean thats becuase are not taking enough adn if tak e more for a week or 2 heart rate will go down ot normal and will adjust and the problem is still too litttle not too much thryo gold . [ am not sure i understand correclty ] thank you jamie for this website !!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      You always have to watch your free T3 and free T4 before raising. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Reply
      • sam

        thansk you jamie hate going to the dr such a waste of time and hard to ge t them to do the tests like this on e . they’ll do the tsh etc but pain i the neck to get them to do others

        wish there was some other way to tell

        Reply
    • Karen f

      I was on NP and because my numbers were still off I had to switch to Tirosant (t4 only synthetic) . I didn’t have a choice. But now my free t3 and freet4 are good and tsh is super low at .0006. My heart rate is always high and I did not know that my meds could cause that. Is that what causes it? It’s so up and down from 78-130! And I don’t work out ! Sometimes I’ll just be standing there and it’s 104. Seems high to me for just standing.

      Reply
  42. Margarita

    I think I still have a good batch of NP Thyroid. It’s sweet tasting (even though it does have a particular taste, it’s NOT cat litter). When I first started on NP from Naturethroid back in January 2019, my T4 and T3 went high! I had to lower my dose from 3 grains to 2 to keep my T3 in the upper range. HOWEVER, I am on my last two days of “good batch NP”. I just placed a refill and am scared to start on the new batch. I am not even sure whether it might still be one of the good ones or not. I’ll have to see.
    My question is – will it be ok to start taking T3 only even when Free T3 is already in the higher range?

    I am looking at other options offered here too and am overwhelmed of what would be the best route to take. I am so upset about this change in NDT!!! Just when I started to feel better and do better (my hair stopped falling out, no heart palps), I am seeing this post and it makes me want to cry, it’s so upsetting. I too am disgusted by many of the ignorant doctors and our pharmaceutical industry. Both are in the business to make money and not help people. It’s sad.

    A huge THANK YOU to you, Janie, for advocating for us and providing us with all this information. It’s been a blessing.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      If a free T3 is in the very upper part (way above midrange) and free T4 is midrange, that is optimal

      You’ll know you have the changed NP is the smell is way worse, the taste is horrid, and you start having any kind of problems on the same amount you’re no now.

      And you are very welcome. 🙂

      Reply
  43. Lynn

    Janie, I am not on Facebook but look at your page to keep updated. I used to be able to load the comments to your posts (relevant, oldest, or all comments) but now they aren’t loading. When I choose “all comments” it just keeps spinning. I don’t know if Facebook is messing with it so they won’t load or if it is a setting that changed. In any event, now the only way I can read comments is if you have also posted here. When you posted about the T3 Mayne Pharma change I was able to quickly switch within one week so I didn’t get alot of bad symptoms and it is the way I found my compounding pharmacy, American Integrative in Lomita CA. They only use one filler, Acidophilus and someone had posted their information. Your Facebook posts and comments keep me healthy! I am still signed up to receive your newsletter and check your blog here often to read comments and the latest updates. I just wish the Facebook comments were visible to me. Thank you for doing what you do, you are a valuable source of information and are much appreciated.

    Reply
  44. Vicky

    Am about five days into my new NP. Have labs ordered for 3 weeks in. I am one who thinks the old stinky NP was the good stuff and the new, no smell NP but yes taste is definitely cat litter. I am going to see if there are compounded options. I heard from my compounder that it is expensive but doable. I had such a horrific response to cytomel along with levothyroxin, I am loathe to try it again. Damn the cost, I will pay whatever. Anyone have advice for me.

    Reply
    • Stefanie

      I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.

      Reply
      • Margarita

        How do you order exactly? Do you just call the compounding pharmacy and tell them you need 60-65 mg of NDT? I’m confused with this. Help!

        Reply
  45. Lynn

    What’s your opinion of WP Thyroid? I’ve taken it for years.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Lynn. It’s honestly not about opinion. I’ve made sure that the majority of what is associated with Stop the Thyroid Madness is about years of strong experiences and wisdom. SO….WP was always a great product as expressed by patients.

      When RLC quit making both WP and Naturethroid for a year, the first that came back was Naturethroid and we watched what appeared to be every single patient have problems. It was clearly now messed up. WP came out later, and we really haven’t had good responses the past year.

      The problem is that we have to be optimal on NDT, not just “on it”. If our labs are not optimal, the feels good eventually go south. We have seen that for years. The individuality is when it will south.

      We’ve had some people say they felt great on a non-optimal dose of any NDT for a few years, only to later admit they had problems, but didn’t associate them with not being optimal. Then they get worse. And some people claim they feel great, but when we see their free t3 and free T4, they aren’t optimal and are destined to see a return of hypo. (And they get defensive about their labs and feel-goods, taking it like an assault when we explain what happens if not optimal.)

      SO we do have two people recently who have said they feel great on WP. SO without seeing their frees, it’s a gamble.

      So for you saying you’ve taken it for years, it’s important to be optimal. This explains: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal See if you can be optimal on it.

      Reply
  46. Debbie Rhyner

    I have not had any problems with WP Thyroid by RLC Labs.  I have been on it since 2015.

    Reply
  47. Margie

    I definitely had severe trouble with Nature-Throid in 2018. My doctor and I worked through it with lots of blood tests and fiddling with dosage. I’m still taking Nature-Throid and seem to be staying relatively stable lately. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find so my doctor has been talking about switching me to NP Thyroid. After reading this I’m not so thrilled about that idea. Another option she has offered is a compounding pharmacy. I’m wondering if NDT from compounding pharmacies is having similar problems? I’m now leaning in that direction.

    Do you have a link to a page that outlines how you collect your data on people reporting problems with their medication? Do you share your data somewhere? Is it anecdotal or do you have other methods you use for data collection? Just thinking about talking to my doctor about reported problems with her current favorite medication, NP Thyroid.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Margie, it started out being just me in 2002, but quickly moved to a lot of patient reporting, listening, gathering what people were saying. This has been going on for 17 years.

      And via those 17 years of patient reports and wisdom, we saw a pattern for so many things–where people fall in lab rantes when optimal (which means they don’t lose the good effect), which meds work better than others (it was clearly NDT or even T3), how we need the right amount of iron and cortisol to get optimal without problems…on and on

      The sharing of what we have learned is right on the STTM website, in the books, in the blog comments and on the Facebook page. We also continue to get feedback on the solid info we have gathered.

      But with doctors, many can pooh-pooh the solid info. They think that the truth revolves around research. Yet we know for a fact that research will often represent who is paying for it, or be faulty. For example, the Walter Reed VA facility did research on NDT (DTE). And they came up with only the following:

      “DTE therapy did not result in a significant improvement in quality of life; however, DTE caused modest weight loss and nearly half (48.6%) of the study patients expressed preference for DTE over L-T₄. DTE therapy may be relevant for some hypothyroid patients.”

      First, there has always been a significant improvement in quality of life as reported by patients, but we have to be OPTIMAL on our NDT, not just on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Additionally, though 48.6% said they approve NDT, it could have been a LOT higher. Why? The research was going by the TSH, which we know is the WORST way to dose by. The range leaves us hypo. Second, the researchers did not know about the problems with adrenal fatigue and low iron. Both, when raising NDT, will cause problems!!

      Do the bottom line, this is one of many example of “research” can be very faulty.

      But I have been collecting research which at least underscores what we know by repeated experiences to be true: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research

      Reply
  48. Catbond

    Im on compound WTE and compound T3 from CompoundLabs in NZ. Both are working very well to get me towards optimal, however, they say that there is an ongoing worldwide shortage of ingredients for both the WTE and T3 and so are only dispensing 30 days supply at a time. It also is taking approximately a week to dispatch, once ordered, so its very easy for us to be caught short and not be able to get more quickly.

    Reply
    • Stefanie

      I switched to compounded NDT. I use Woodland Hills Pharmacy based out of California. They are licensed all over and can ship.

      Reply
  49. DeeCan

    Here is the cycle I’ve noticed. First Armour changed so people from the US and Internationally went on ERFA from Canada. That was scary for me, being from Canada, because it seems to be one of the reasons ERFA switched manufacturers so that they could accommodate people from all around the world. Then ERFA changed (trying to produce Thyroid more cost-effectively for ERFA perhaps?). So that was the end of ERFA Thyroid as we once knew it. Now that other ndts have changed, except for Thyroid-S, apparently, there will be a huge demand for other sources of natural dessicated thyroid. Pretty soon that will go the way of the Dodo bird, too. Basically, we’re doomed. Sorry, I’ve been basically off ndt for 3 or 4 years now, and I’m feeling very pessimistic, and my brain is nowhere near functioning at optimal levels.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi DeeCan. Yes, it’s frustrating. 🙁 But we are not necessarily doomed. You never know who will see this and produce another NDT. And even so, there are options that may work well as outlined in the post. Don’t forget those, and remember to get optimal with those frees (but you have to have optimal iron and cortisol to get there without problems, we have learned repeatedly. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol)

      Reply
    • Amy

      My dd and I both have hashis. She has flipped back and forth from naturethroid to wp depending on availability. I have tried to stay with wp as I liked it better and could chew it. I am also on t3(sigma pharm). We have both felt worse over the summer and my hair has been falling out. We get 90 supplies of the meds, so it would make sense that we got one of the new batches. I found some of the old batch and the color difference is quite noticeable. I have upped my t3 again, which seems to help the symptoms, but lab numbers are all over the place. The pharmacy is back ordered again, which is getting really old. We go back to the doctor on Thursday so I’ll be interested in what she says. She sells naturethroid from the office, and wp when you couldn’t get it. Wondering if she is seeing this across her patients.

      Reply
  50. Pamela

    I used to be on Acella, but because I wanted more control over my dosing, I switched to Thyrovanz this past February. I feel I’ve been doing well on it, but I do intend to order a blood test from an independent lab to confirm.

    I can’t speak to other supplements, but as far as Thyrovanz is concerned: the only active ingredient is bovine thyroid powder. There aren’t any spleen, adrenal, liver, or any other glandular powders to be concerned about. If I understand correctly, this NDT has the “dietary supplement” label because it is not subjected to the FDA for analysis. As far as the government is concerned, it’s a food product, not a pharmaceutical. The provider, then, can’t make claims about its potency, and that’s probably the biggest risk factor about using the product: getting the right dose right away.

    But if a person is truly unhappy with the current NDT products, and if blood tests verify the ineffectiveness, then I personally wouldn’t hesitate to point them toward Thyrovanz as a potentially viable alternative.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      And it’s important to add that Thyrogold, which has been around even longer, is also a good OTC natural thyroid supplement by years of patient reports, first created by Dr. John C. Lowe. All good ones need to be mentioned.

      Also especially with Thyrovanz, there appear to be a few who have quite high frees on a lower amount of Thyrovanz, to the point of being problematic. So on any OTC, watch your frees before raising. That means whether it’s Thyrovanz or not. There is no guarantee that any OTC natural thyroid supplement will be consistent from bottle to bottle.

      And if anyone finds a third OTC that is making one optimal (free T3 at the top part of the range, free T4 midrange–both) let us know.

      Reply
  51. Sheila

    I am on NP 90mgs per day..I get the 30mgs..Take 2 in AM…1 in afternoon…
    Has this affected the 30 mg tablets…mine seem the same…have a sweet taste..I chew them and let them dissolve in my mouth…I just got my re fill last week..say Sept..15th..

    Reply
  52. Ellen weir

    Hello. I’ve been through 30 plus years of changes and he’ll. Thank you Janie. I’m still able to get old NP, not too stinky from my local pharmacy. But, the generic HC I’ve been on for a year has now changed size and distributor!! I haven’t slept in 2 weeks and it’s the same BS that we are getting with NP. I went to CVS which I had band, and they have WP, which is the only natural thyroid meds I haven’t been on. Have people been experiencing same problems on WP? Jeez

    Reply
  53. Mariana

    Hi. Finding all thes comments on NDT on this blog is so useful!!! I am switching to synthetic T4 + T3 and I am splitting my T3 AND T4 in 3 daily doses. I think Taking T4 (and not only T3) in small doses throughout the day is closer to thyroid physiology and to what we do when we split our NDT. It definitely helps me.

    Reply
  54. Jay

    Other Options for Treatment with NDT:

    1) ARMOUR: A few days ago, I asked a question on another board about Armour………….Two patients responded that they are on Armour and they started AFTER the 2009 fiasco and they are still doing well on Armour today. So the question is………is Armour still WORKABLE? Seems like it would be worth a shot to try Armour (if your current brand is not working) and if Armour does not work right away to raise the dose, if needed, after checking labs to get optimal.

    2) THAILAND (THRYOID-S, THIROYD, TR) Are they still producing any of these three? I have seen posts VERY recently saying that some or all are now out of production. I have heard about these medications for many years and the reviews have mostly been positive. Can anyone give updates on the availability of these meds and/or their effectiveness?

    3) WP: Is WP back or is it NOT back? This question needs to be answered. I talked to my doctor a few days ago and he said it is very hard to get. If it is back, what strengths are back? Also, how is it working for patients if it is back? WP MIGHT be the one that steps in to SAVE the day since there are so few fillers. And WP is made by a company that has been in the NDT business for a long, long time. It would be a GOOD idea to start calling them about WP to see if they can work with the NDT community to help out.

    4) Australia, Germany, Denmark, New Zealand: NDT from these countries has always been on the listed on this website. Has anyone from the US, Canada, or UK ever been able to order NDT from these countries and have them shipped to the US, Canada, or UK?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      The problem is that we don’t really know if someone is truly doing *well* on anything without seeing their free T3 and free T4. To be optimal in these two labs is critical to avoid lingering problems–the latter which people don’t always mention when they say they are “doing well”, we’ve noticed repeatedly.

      Reply
      • Just Me

        Just an FYI: Labs are private and requests from non-medical persons for individual lab results violates HIPAA laws.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It appears to be about consent, Just Me. Not forcing anyone. But it doesn’t change that each individual might want to learn from patient experiences about what optimal is. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Just Me, research was done by two admins here and HIPAA Rules apply only to Healthcare providers, Health plans, healthcare clearing houses, etc. Also to Business associates of HIPAA covered associates. It doesn’t apply to fellow patients, which are not covered entities. A patient can choose to share or not their lab results with no penalty either way.

          Reply
    • Stephanie Morgan

      I recently ordered Thyroid S after not doing well on Thyrogold. The first week on Thyroid S I felt much better, but by the second week I was having heart palpitations. I dropped my dose and continued to take it but by the third week my heart felt like it was pounding out of my chest. I stopped taking it. After doing some research, I discovered that this is a common problem on this NDT.

      Reply
    • Anina

      @ Jay
      I am very sorry! Sriprasit Pharma in Thailand decided this summer to stop producing Thyroid-S, allegedly due to low demand from hospitals and pharmacies. Also, T.Man Pharma already last spring stopped producing TR Thyroid. Only Thiroyd remains in production so far …

      It’s possible that Thai manufacturers are currently testing how their domestic customers will respond to the forced switch to synthetic levothyroxine, but Thailand is a country where reduced ability to work = starvation, so I reckon when purchased ‘stocks’ of NDT are no more, and those desperate poor sick realize that they cannot maintain livelihood on synthetic levothyroxine – it will probably start a minor civil war.

      In contrast, in countries like the Scandinavian/European, where health care is paid over the taxes – society is paying for all the losses which are results of doctors preventing the hypothyroid patients from getting well … while we are paying the same doctors millions and millions in high salaries each and every year, just for keeping us sick.

      Keep in mind that synthetic levothyroxine is a constant number between 3 and 5 in the top ten of the largest number of daily doses sold – on ALL the continents of the world! Through ALL the decades since the 1970s! The risk of losing these HUGE revenues (billions and billions) is why NDT drugs are now consistently sabotaged worldwide. It is a battle we will lose unless millions of our healthy relatives begin to fight with us.

      Reply
  55. Ana

    Thank you, Janie, for this summary of the current state of thyroid treatment. I too am disgusted. All we want is a medical community that will listen to us, will learn from our experiences, and will not be afraid to challenge the 50-year-old, deeply flawed dogma that has harmed so many patients over the years.

    There are wonderful doctors out there, but because of the lack of research, problematic guidelines, and limited treatment options even the best doctors are stumbling around in the dark. And thyroid disease itself is viewed by most in the medical community as insignificant, creating another hurdle to getting improved care.

    We need more scientific inquiry, more intelligent research, guidelines based on the best science, an overhaul in the way doctors are trained, and a variety of safe, consistent medications that will allow us to lead full, productive lives. How do we bring about such a change?

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Actually, there is research that proves what we know by our experiences: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/medical-research And doctors need to LISTEN To and OBSERVE their patients better in the first place. It’s not, not, not just about research (and who was paid to do the research). There is also very biased and crap research out there, too.

      Reply
      • Ana

        Yes, I completely understand that all of STTM is based on good research. I didn’t express myself well. My frustration is that in the medical community all the good research gets buried (Robert Utiger’s research on the TSH reactions to NDTS/t3 for example) and doesn’t get built upon by successive generations of scientists. Most of the research of the past 50 years is based on faulty premises, that someone on synthetic t4 monotherapy with a TSH in a broad reference range is normal, etc. Those flawed, often badly designed studies get cited over and over and other researchers do yet more research based on the faulty findings. The doctors in my family have told me that protocols won’t change without replicated research, and for complicated reasons, the thyroid research went off on the wrong track around 1970 (much of it driven by the manufacturers of synthetic t4). It will only get turned around with more good research that can refute all the bad stuff that’s driving the diagnostic and treatment protocols. The good research will come from practitioners listening to and learning from their patients, observing how what patients actually experience contradicts the accepted dogma.

        Reply
  56. matt

    Janie- I have the new NP’s, since august, they do look different – just like the photos provided on STTM, I use them sublingual, and they taste the same to me. They smell a little different, but Im NOT smelling cat pee. Im a guy, but still I think some are over exaggerating the smell. Counting past obvious reformulations, I ve used eight formulations of NDT in my life, they all smelled a little different. Yes we had more brands only 12 years ago. Since Acella says they added manufacturing on their website “NP update”, this would be new machinery added (I’v been a manufacturing engineer) and explains the shape difference. The new machinery might need a different release agent too, – thus the smell change. I have used about 60 of my new pills, in combination with some of my old leftover pills. Even at 50% new pills, I should feel hypo or with new symptoms, but dont. I will look into getting the three labs done soon to see what my levels are and report back.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Yes, the only logical explanation said to me personally by Acella a few weeks ago is why the tablet size was different–the new tablet press machine. The rest which was stated struck me as dismissal.

      Reply
      • DeeCan

        It seems really coincidental that ALL manufacturers of ndt have new pressing machines. ERFA has new machines, now others?

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          It may be because of demand.

          Reply
          • Carolyn

            Janie,
            I am picking up a new NP rx tomorrow. Are all of the new pills speckled like NatureThroid? What else should I be looking for to see if I have a new/bad batch or an old batch. I use a small local pharmacy so there is a good chance of getting either one (for different reasons). Just need to know what to look for. I couldn’t clearly see the differences on the posted photos.

    • Janie Bowthorpe

      A release agent…can you tell us more about that?

      Reply
      • matt

        They can either use a “dusting” compound (fda appvd) or air blast to release pills from press forms. Too light to just fall out on their own.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          That is interesting. Thank you for explaining that. We as patients are kept in the dark about most things “pharmaceutical”.

          Yet, neither of those seem to explain the repugnant smell patients have noticed on the changed NP Thyroid tablets, a smell far worse than the natural pig smell that we have noticed for years.

          Reply
          • matt

            It might, if the release is not an air, nitrogen or other gas “blast” and is chemically compounded into the outside of the pill, or the “dusting” itself stinks and impregnates into the pills. .There are many ways to do this. Everything has a smell, just how strong is what makes it obvious or not. Other pills can smell sometimes, not just these thyroid pills.

          • Pamela

            I can personally attest to the fact that compressed air–the kind marketed to clean dust of a computer keyboard–can transfer a super nasty taste to the fingers of the keyboard user. So I can easily imagine that an air blast release might explain the repugnant taste and smell of the pills.

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Interesting analogy, Pamela!

      • Melody

        I know Wikipedia isn’t a medical site. Here is 1 paragraph about canned air/duster. If you think further about adding this to pills, there is bound to be moisture to some extent in the cans. Could it be that this is destroying the good that is in the pills, once they get a little damp?

        Since gas dusters are one of the many inhalants that can be easily abused, many manufacturers have added a bittering agent to deter people from inhaling the product. Because of the generic name “canned air”, it is mistakenly believed that the can only contains normal air or contains a less harmful substance (such as nitrous oxide, for example). However, the gases actually used are denser than air, such as difluoroethane. When inhaled, the gas displaces the oxygen in the lungs and removes carbon dioxide from the blood causing the user to suffer from hypoxia which results in the euphoric feeling abusers desire. This type of inhalant abuse can cause a plethora of negative effects including brain and nerve damage, paralysis, serious injury, or death.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Your comment was apparently sent to spam and I just found it and “undid” the spam designation. Sorry about that. It’s very interesting.

          Reply
    • Just Me

      @Matt, We are definitely NOT exaggerating and to suggest that is highly offensive and dismissive. Shall I tell you about the extreme chemical burn in my alimentary canal due to the “New” NP? Please don’t make blanket statements simply because you may have the older batch.

      Reply
      • LB

        I agree! It is very dismissive, and seems to imply (to me) that it is women who are exaggerating and complaining about this. I’ve tasted all kinds of bad tasting/smelling foods and health supplements in my time traveling the world without complaint, but my first whiff of this “new” NP smelled and tasted very much like chemicals or the cat pee of many complaints. However, I found very little of the smell lingered in my refills after I put a desiccant pack in the bottle, although the taste was still a bit off.

        Reply
        • matt

          On average, mens sense of smell is not as great as womens, That is why I wrote that. And you automaticaly asumed I was putting down women? Jumping on that pretty fast there arent you? My batch looks and smells different than any NP Ive had for four years running. It was ordered in for me late August as they had none in stock.

          Reply
          • Emily

            Matt, I’m sorry to say that whether you are aware of it or not, your statement did come across as dismissive. My husband is also “a guy”, but one with a strong sense of smell, so when I asked him what my recently refilled tablets smelled like to him, his response was “cat piss” (we have cats, so we are well familiar with that smell). Please remember that many of us are here because doctors and others did not believe our symptoms but we got better when we found answers here, so perhaps if we are a bit sensitive to being told that some of us are “over exaggerating”, it is because we are tired of not being heard or believed.

        • Margarita

          Matt’s comment was not an attack on women. By saying “some” does not equal “women”. I am a woman, and I do not see anything dismissive or offensive in the post. Maybe it’s time for some to recheck their adrenals…

          Reply
    • Ana

      Matt, are you working for Acella?

      Reply
  57. Jen

    Has anyone been using Thyrogold and can attest that it’s not falling to the same fate as the prescribed NDT? I’m interested in trying it, but am worried that it too will start to suffer in it’s potency. This whole situation IS disgusting, Janie. I feel like I had my life back for a whole 2 years only to have it ripped away again.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      The OTC natural thyroid supplements like Thyrogold are not falling the same fate. Prescription NDT’s were not from New Zealand as these are.

      Reply
    • sam

      ive been using thyrogold for mayeb 10 or 8 years now . after 5 yeasrs of worhtless synthroid . i havent started the new looking bottle [ white with back lettering ] the old one s have navy blue label[ 300 ] or medium blue 150]

      ill try the new one soon to see if any differnet
      i still do have some problems with fatigue and weight gain but wiht out taking anyhting was exhasuted . i buy it because i refuse to buy GMOS adn pretty s ure the other pharmecutical stuff is from GMO fed pigs [ factory farmed too probably ]

      did have very bad adrenal fatigue several yeasr ago think still have it jsut not as bad as was .
      i wonder if i never started tkaing synthroid 15 or so years ago if my thyroid woudl have gone back to normal after a stressful year .thats what happened to a freind of mine . but i was bullied or talked into taking it by a dr who i never should have listened to! and they wonder why we dont trust drs and dislike them !

      Reply
  58. Marylynn Caldwell

    I’ve recently gone from 2 1/2 grains of NDT to T4/T3 synthetic. For years I’ve wanted to get back on 3 grains of NDT but met resistance because I’m 76. So because my Rt3 was high, I managed to get my compounding pharmacist and nurse practitioner working together to adjust my dose on synthetic and I’m now 30 micrograms of synthetic T3  which is even a little more than the equivalent  of 3 grains of NDT and less T4 (83 micrograms) . Finally. I actually feel better on the synthetic than I did on the natural. Probably because they were messing around with it. So I think you’re on the right track.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Marylynn, one grain of NDT is equal to 25 micrograms of T3.

      Reply
    • Mary Ann Z

      I use naturethroid. For the last year, I have had maybe 1 good batch of NDT.
      It may not be the way they make it however.
      Perhaps the source ingredients are ineffective.
      My son who is in medical school suggested that if the pigs the thyroid glands are taken from are
      hypothyroid, the NDT will not be very effective. I don’t know what’s going on but I keep buying more and more bottles hoping I’ll get a good one, sigh!

      Reply
  59. Karen H

    Hi Janie,
    I feel kind of sheepish about this, but I just got my thyroid blood tests results and everything is optimal. Free T4 slightly above the middle of the normal range, Free T3 high normal, and TSH almost undetectable. I too have been feeling extremely fatigued and having some return of hypo symptoms. I was pretty sure the cause was the “new” NP. B12 was optimal. The only thing that had gone down a bit, but was still well within the normal range was Ferritin. I’ve been on the new stinky NP since May of this year. So now I’m confused as to whether the changes are as dramatic as I had thought. I would hate to return to synthetics, as I found cytomel to be EXTREMELY over-stimulating relative to the NDT T3.

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      No need to feel sheepish. We want to learn from each other. Are you saying that you have felt extremely fatigued and a return of hypo symptoms since May and to the current day? Also, do you know that all NDT (unless there is a strong coating) are a little stinky? What patients are reporting is a massive amount of terrible stink.

      Reply
      • Karen H

        My lot numbers match up with two of the ones on the list. I take 15 (1/4) and 30 (1/2) grain tablets. I don’t chew the tablets up, but I did notice an extra strong odor on the new 30s.

        My symptoms aren’t as extreme as many of the people who have written in and consist mainly of fatigue, feeling cold and some muscle heaviness. It may also be exacerbated by the weather as we head into fall.

        Reply
    • Sarie

      Karen, what was your Reverse T3? The Frees can appear optimal, but if Reverse is high we’re not getting T3 into the cells 💗

      Reply
  60. Meg Chrisler

    Janie, this is such a great site and has always been helpful; HOWEVER, please define certain terms when they are first used. I’ve referred several friends of mine to this site and they are discouraged because too many abbreviations are used without defining them. We all are bombarded by abbreviations and acronyms in this busy world and it would really make reading your site much easier, especially for newbies who are dealing with thyroid disease. Keep up the great work!

    Reply
    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Hi Meg. I have added the words “Natural Thyroid Hormones” before NDT and also added “Stop the Thyroid Madness” before STTM. At the very beginning. 🙂 For future reference for others: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/acronyms

      Reply
      • Jenn

        I’m confused because I thought Erfa was still working for people & I planned to switch to that although I’m in US. If Erfa changed in past I thought I heard that Erfa went back to the original & was concerned about the change even asking patients effected to give them batch #s in order to fix the problem. Am I wrong with this information? Can anyone explain more on Erfa? I spoke to a pharmacist from an online Canadian pharmacy & she said she looked into this when Armour changed & many US patients then switched to Erfa. If Erfa is also no good then I will have to find something else.

        Reply
        • Janie Bowthorpe

          Jenn, if you want to try and make Erfa work, you are supported!! This info is about people who used to be on it, then saw a terrible return of their hypothyroid symptoms after something changed. It’s the latter that at different times is being referred to. And it’s been very unclear how people are really doing since then.

          There are some people on every single of these once changed NDTs that feel they are doing well. Sure hope that is true.

          Reply
          • Gina

            If you remember this itching thing started with the new erfa a few years back too… Listen Janie I can’t even believe I logged on today to see this new article from you. I have been telling you this for YEARS now. The thyroid powder is no longer made in the US and none of the manufacturers are being honest about where they are getting it from OR if it is even really porcine thyroid powder at all! It is well known that China are the great imitators and this is clearly no different. I have also noticed from my own research that many of the pig farmers are not allowed to sell us the pig thyroids anymore. Something is definitely up! Since you have so many readers now, AND so many suffering, including yourself, can you please organize this group to start having these damn pills tested? Let’s find out what is REALLY in them together. Can we come together and do this now? It will be affordable if we all chip in for the cost. There is NO known safe porcine thyroid powder producer left on the planet that I can find. Russ really has me thinking about the duck thyroid… hmmm.. I wonder if it could work?

          • Janie Bowthorpe

            Gina, it’s only been a few years since the one US manufacturer stopped making it. And NP was using a private source, and it worked…until now.

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