The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients

This page is always updated and fits the current day and time. If anything changes, I will say so. ~Janie

The Change of Natural Desiccated Thyroid in 2019 is bad
The life-changing prescription NDTs are not that they used to be…

I never thought that I’d be writing this, but patient- reported evidence underscores that all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have changed from the consistent, quality NDT’s they used to be. 🙁

Where’s the evidence? It’s from many patients who were doing well on each one for years, then saw their symptoms go south, including seeing changes in the tablet at the same time.

  • ARMOUR by Allergan--which for years (before Allergan bought out Forest) was always a consistent and excellent NDT, was the first that patients noticed had made a change in 2009. Patients reported a miserable return of their hypo. 2015 also saw a similar problematic change. See the September, 2015 Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) blog post. Good news: as of early 2020 as I’m adding this part, Armour has been working for some as long as you seek to get optimal, even if it’s still not the same NDT it used to be (harder, far more expensive). Some add T3 to it if they feel it’s needed.
  • ERFA Canada’s NDT in Canada, which many in the US moved over to after Armour went south in 2014 (but is better today and is working if one gets optimal)-there were vast patient reports of a return of hypo symptoms after Erfa had been a great product before. And of course, Erfa stated they changed nothing. Here’s my blog post. It’s still not the smoothly consistent NDT it used to be.
  • NATURETHROID by RLC Labs, which gave excellent results for years, seemed to royally change in 2018 when it came back out after a hiatus. Too many patients reported a miserable return of their hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way when they got back on. See that blog post here. Even though some patients swear it’s working, their labs reveal otherwise, sooner or later. WP Thyroid seems to have gone downhill as well, reported by several patients. Remember it’s about being optimal, not just “how you feel”. Update: there has been a 2020 recall of Naturethroid as well as WP due to sub-potency.
  • NP THYROID, the last remaining consistent and excellent NDT by Acella Pharmaceuticals, seemed to have made the worst change by the summer of 2019. Patients started to report a miserable return of hypo symptoms. But it didn’t end there. Patients also reported a slew of other terrible symptoms, ranging from nausea, burning in stomach, allergic reactions, flu-like symptoms and more depending on who was reporting. Also reported is a highly repulsive taste and rank smell (many patients comparing it to cat pee or kitty litter). My blog post about this here. In 2020 as I’m writing this part, it appears by patients that Acella is now trying cover up the nasty inside with a coating. But that hasn’t changed that it’s nowhere near what is used to be, and also leaves patients wondering what they are still putting in their bodies under that coverup coating. 2020 also announced a recall of NP tabs made in 2018/early 2019, stating super-potent levels of T3. But to ONLY recall NP because of what occurred BEFORE patients reported a return of hypothyroid symptoms, and some with worsening labs starting in the Summer of 2019, and especially starting in the Fall of 2019, seems a bit weird, don’t you think??

And the pharmaceuticals don’t seem to give a damn, exclaim patients!

Sadly, when hypothyroid patients reported contacting each pharmaceutical about the return of their hypo symptoms as well as other strange symptoms, the pharm replies were similar: “We didn’t change anything”. That line was especially true for Erfa, RLC Labs and now Acella, say patients. Some patients have cried “Foul!” and compared it to gaslighting and dismissal.

Or, after patients reported to Acella about a strong return of hypothyroid symptoms on top of the clearly changed tablets, the first seemingly official Acella-reply never even mentioned the horrible symptoms, and simply underscored that “it is normal for tablet colors to be different between batches and have a slight smell’. No, say the majority of patients, the new smell was far worse than any NDT all these years, besides being repulsive, as is the taste. Many patients have compared the smell to kitty litter or cat pee. See patient comments as to what was happening to them on this blog post.

At the time of this writing, not ONE pharmaceutical has done a thing to return these NDT’s to their former, consistent and smooth excellence which once changed our lives, or even considered or admitted that their product was no more what it used to be…or cared. Said one patient in a group “They remind me of the three monkeys.”

It’s all about the money, not about you.

“But I feel good on the changed prescription NDT’s”…

Here are four things we’ve noticed when someone says that….

1) They are still on the former good NP Thyroid (at the time of this writing), somehow managed to be on the former Naturethroid, or are just an exception to the rule…but they are still at risk….

2) They do “feel better” on certain NDT brands which are proven to have gone south. But there’s a failure to understand that “feeling better” may be the result of an increase in adrenaline and cortisol due to still being hypothyroid because of the changes to these brands. We have seen this a lot lately. And their labs (free T3 and free T4) reveal the truth i.e. if the free T3 is midrange (non-optimal) or lower, or the FT4 is low, yet one feels good, it’s usually the adrenaline release.

3) They are combining a low dose of NP Thyroid or Naturethroid with higher doses of T3. They may not notice what’s been going on with others since their NP dose is so low, and their T3 is helping. But some would worry that whatever is in NP (or Naturethroid) now causing all these issues isn’t worth putting in our bodies.

4) Or an unknown, since so many are not doing well. We need to continue figuring this out….

So what are our options now?

Remember, we have found in each other that we still have to be optimal on any of the below.

  • Synthetic T3 with synthetic T4. Yes, they can work for many, espeically those who are getting optimal. So it’s not about a token small dose of T3 (like 5 mcg) that too many doctors will put you on, and leave you on. Dosing the FT3 and FT4 is still very important, we have experienced. Note that one grain of NDT has approx. 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 (this was inadvertently backwards in those who get an email notification. Forgive me). So a switch to the two synthetics can be made based on that, and in a few weeks, we retest the free T3 and free T4. Also take the time in groups to ask others what T3 has been working for them, whether they are swallowing or chewing it up, etc. (For example, the Mayne version has been awful for many patients. So you have to decide if you want it for you. There are other brands.)
  • Armour Yes, it’s the ONLY one that may still work for some; others have had issues with it. But it’s worth a try, and be prepared that those “some” may need to add T3 to it and get optimal Also be prepared that also for “some” depending on where you live, it went way up in price compared to where it used to be. Sad.
  • Natural thyroid “supplements” like NutriMeds, Thyrogold, Thyrovanz and others like them. And remember that even on these, patients have reported the need to be optimal, not just “on them”. NOTE: there are times that even these OTC natural thyroid supplements aren’t doing the job correctly. So it could be wise to keep T3 on hand if that happens to you.
  • A new Thai version of NDT called Tru Thyroid. Sadly, it appears that Thyroid-S, Thiroyd, and T-man aren’t made anymore. Bad timing!!And right now, we haven’t gotten enough feedback about Tru Thyroid. And this? https://www.bioiberica.com/en/media/news/healthcare/bioiberica-launches-natural-origin-thyroid-api-cphi-2019
  • Being on T3-only Yes it works well, but most need to multi-dose it at least three times a day, 3-4 hours a part, to counter the lack of T4 converting to T3 behind the scenes. And some add a small dose at bedtime.
  • Compounded Thyroid There do appear to a few compounding pharmacies who are using a good source of porcine powder made only for compounders. There are also some patients who are reporting that the PCCA-sourced porcine powder is causing problems (just like pharmaceutical-made NDTS.). We are keeping an eye on that. If you know of a pharmacy which is compounding porcine powder that still works, and you are optimal on it, comment below.

Please use this information in working with your doctor if you can. Or find a better one to work with.

I, Janie Bowthorpe, am disgusted by this.

Disgusted that the last consistently excellent NDT by Acella also went down the drain as experienced and reported by a wide variety of patients.

Disgusted by the dismissals by pharmaceuticals when patients report all their returned symptoms and even new and awful symptoms.

Disgusted that they will simply say “we changed nothing” when clearly each NDT did change as reported by patients seeing a return of symptoms with changed tablets.

Disgusted that not even one pharm acknowledges something went wrong, and thus, no changes to the NDT.

Disgusted that we now have this problem on top of doctors who can’t see past their noses about the right use of the former NDT or T3 in the first place.

Disgusted that some facilities are even refusing to test the free T3 and free T4, which are VERY important in finding our right dose of whatever we are on. Or refusing to the test the reverse T3, which is also VERY important.

Disgusted that one pharmaceutical representative may have said that this is all just social media hysteria. Unbelievable.

Disgusted that those in Europe and elsewhere are under a medical system which makes it nearly impossible to get T3, or thinks a TSH up to 10 is fine and dandy.

Disgusted that too many of the over-60 wonderful patients can’t get US medicare to pay for NDT, to pay for T3, both which CHANGE LIVES.

Disgusted by the implication that our wonderful over-60 thyroid patients should be on only T4, or off needed thyroid meds.

I am totally and thoroughly disgusted.

But let’s not be silent about this!

Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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1,007 Responses to “The Sad Saga of Where We Are Today as Hypothyroid Patients”

  1. Rachel Hamlin says:

    Hi again,
    I have been on Armour since the NP cat piss change. And I’ve been being treated for low ferritin (but others normal) MTHFR, and tryng to treat mold illness, chronic EBV, and now LYME…. but after reading your notes about Iron/ferritin and MTHFR I wonder if it could just all be my MTHFR and the crappy Armour???? I had a really hard time trying to take oral iron though-and if it is not being absorbed what do I do?
    and what dose shoudl I be on of methylfolate?
    Also I think I’m allergic to pork, but never responded to synthetics – I thought I’d try the Ancestral beef thyroid… any thoughts please?
    It’s been so hard – I can barely feed my kids lunch. It hurts to walk up stairs, I’m exhausted after ten hours in bed and I’m only 40. (no thyroid due to TT which I deeply regret)

    last levels were : ferritn: 26
    C4a : 1500
    FT3: 3.2
    TIBC: 327
    FT4: 1.13
    TSH: .008
    Help?

    • We have learned the hard way that we don’t just treat a single ferritin result. We can have low ferritin and good or high iron. You have to look at all four iron labs. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron

      • Also compare your other thyroid labs to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Rachel says:

        Sorry reading all that was what led to my question:
        I do have all the iron bloodwork but with the normal others and low ferritin it sounds like the MTHFR issue? Which I have been tested as having a part mutation with. But I couldn’t figure out from that page what to DO about it? If taking iron then doesn’t help (but I have almost all the symptoms listed on your linked iron page) what can I do? I have plenty of dietary iron….. but I guess I’m not absorbing? (this seems to be a theme with vitmins? I’m also on RX strength vitamin D2 which was at 0…)

        • It’s hard to comment without seeing all your iron labs. Can you reply with the results and ranges?

          • Rachel says:

            Iron:
            TIBC: 327 (up from 282) range 250-450
            UIBC 223 (up from 159) r 131-425
            Iron 104 (down from 123) r 27-159
            Iron sat. 32 (down frmo 44) r 15-55
            Ferritin 26 (down from 45; it was 2 when tested previously – this is why DR tried to supplement) r 15-150

            Also : C4a (inflammation marker) 1439 (down from 2195) range 0-650 (!!)
            Vit D 80 (up from 47)
            D2 45 (up from less than 1!!!)
            D3 35 (down from 46)

            confirmed C7660T (if i remember correcrtly) partially MTHFR mutation.

            Thanks you!!! (also – I tend to run hot and now my periods come every 25 days (used to be 32-35) so it doesn’t seem liek that is hypothoid? I have all the muscle weakness,cramps, feelinghto that you list for low iron though. Also always dizzy.)

          • When we see fairly good looking iron results and low ferritin, it seems to be this, not treating the low ferritin: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/mthfr

            Glad to see your c4a going down. I had the same test when I had a mold illness.

            With dizziness, we check out this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

          • Rachel says:

            Oh I didn’t see it had come through! So maybe I need a higher dose of methylfoalte? I’ve been doing 1.5/1,500 for years and years…Its been a while since I did the saliva test but it was normal back then. The D2 supplementation helped bring the dizziness down but it is not all gone. Quitting pork also seems to be helping

            Ok try number two:
            TIBC 327 (previously 282) range 250-450
            UIBC 223 (p 159) r 131-425
            Iron 104 (p 123) r 27-159
            Iron SAturation 32 (p 44) r 15-55
            ferritin 26 (originially 14 when Dr started trying to supplement) 15-150

            C4a (inflammation) 1439 (down from 2195!!!) range 0-650

            Also Vit D 80 (up from 47)
            Vit D2 45 (up from less than one – so Dr started me on 20,000 Vit D2 once a week)
            Vit D3 35 (down from 46)

            Side note – i seem to run hot, and period comes every 25 days instead of the 32-35 from long before – which doesn;t seem hypo? But do have the leg/calf cramps, difficulty with stairs and muscle weakness and hotness you list in the low iron section.
            Thank you!!!

          • Read Dr. Ben Lynch’s book Dirty Genes. It might help, too.

          • Periods closer together have happened to still-hypo women before.

  2. Mendy says:

    Have you got any info regarding Forefront Health thyroid glandular? I almost ordered and have this pause – I have searched all over your website for info because I trust you and the patients but can not find anything. thanks for such good info and sharing!

    • The reality is that all companies or websites of bovine thyroid are getting their bovine from similar sources. So we haven’t seen any one brand being any better than another. We’ve also noticed over the years that it’s not uncommon for any bovine brand to have weak or changed batches here or there.

  3. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Hi Janie is there a reputable compounding pharmacy in Europe that deliver to the U.K please?

  4. Pamela K Corley says:

    Any reviews on Grass Fed Natural Desiccated Thyroid by Ancestral Supplements?

    • It would depend on if someone does a screenshot of the free T4, free T3 and RT3 in order to know for sure. It’s never just about “how you feel”, because we can, at first, feel good on bovine, only to later see problems.

  5. Shantel Brooks says:

    I have been following STTM since 2014 but with everything going on in the last year plus, I haven’t checked back recently. I am floored and disheartened. I am on Armour currently (120mg) and have been back on it for 1 year (after a situation that landed me in the hospital last year due to drug reactions). I am also on 75mcg T3 but my ft3 and ft4 are both below the bottom of the range? It is like I am not taking any meds. Reading this about Armour, I thought that it could make sense of my labs but my ft3??? No med interactions and nothing that is blocking absorption. Could the Armour somehow interfere with the T3 uptake too?

    • Is your ancestry from western Europe like England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland or nearby? Because that seems to be a hotbed for a mutation that causes Thyroid Hormone Resistance. Thus, people with it end up needing very high amounts of NDT and T3 to get out of their hypothyroid state.

  6. Christine Maddy says:

    Current assessment of NP thyroid? I asked for an increase in my Armour and my new prescription is NP. Should I discriminate based on the 2020 changes or have an open mind?

    • I’m a listener and collector of patient reported experiences and observations. And for those who feel they are doing well, there seem to be an awful lot who aren’t doing well on it. So who knows.

      • Stacy C says:

        I have been on NP Thyroid 75 mg for a while now. I was still symptomatic with need to nap, increasing weight and dry skin being my biggest issues.
        After my most recent labs in March, I asked to try some liothyronine, but my doctor wanted to add 25 mcg of levothyroxine instead. I dose all of my thyroid meds in the morning.
        I was just starting to feel like I was possibly getting some relief because I felt warmer and had a little more energy, but now I have roaring hot flashes (although my basal body temp hasn’t changed), and I also have had terrible insomnia for the last couple of days. I’m wondering if I just need to change when I am dosing the levo and the NP, or get more vocal about trying liothyronine instead of the synthetic. Thoughts on this? I get labs again in about two weeks.

        Recent labs as of 3/24/21:

        TSH 0.11 (range 0.45-5.33)
        FT4 0.5 (0.61-1.12)
        FT3 3.3 (2.5-3.9)
        Testosterone 156 (<75) *I feel better at this level, and my hubby appreciates it, too!
        B-12 397 (180-914)

        I would welcome any insight or advice on other tests to request. Thank you so much.

        • There’s a lot to say to you that I hope you can understand.

          Normally, if someone is only on a measly dose of 75 mg of NDT, and that’s horribly underdosed, I would have said that we would always raise the product from that and get optimal. Optimal is a free T3 in the upper part of the range and a free T4 around mid-range, plus maintaining a low rt3.

          But that’s not going to work. First, NP has been repeatedly recalled. It’s the worst NDT to be on when it comes to being recalled along with Naturothoid and WP – they were also recalled. They all three became problematic.

          Second, when any of us are underdosed like you’ve been, the risk goes up there’s going to be a cortisol problem as a result of being underdosed. And when you say you now have insomnia, that’s a clue that you have high cortisol around bedtime. And no telling what’s going on the other times of the day. That’s where we order and do a saliva test to find out what’s going on: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/

          Third, even if none of the above were true, but for you they probably are, it was never about adding T4 to NDT. Doctors constantly make that mistake. NDT is already 80% T4. So.. because when one is underdosed, they can see their cortisol go up too high in response, that causes rising rt3. And adding T4 to NDT when there’s rising rt3 means rt3 is going to go even higher. That only makes us more and more hypo since rt3 is an inactive hormone.

          I can tell you what I would do if your situation had been mine, and then you can decide for you. I would practically demand a prescription for T3 from the doctor. If he or she wouldn’t give it to me, they would be fired and I would find a better doctor to give it.

          Once I got the T3 I would ditch the NP and also greatly lower the T4, since the risk is now much higher that it’s been converting to rt3. And PS, from being underdosed, the risk is now high that one’s iron is falling, and that also pushes rt3 up. Doctors don’t get any of this either.

          I would also immediately test the four iron labs (iron, percent saturation, tibc, and ferritin) and rt3. And again if the doctor refuses to order those, another reason to be fired. Those labs can also be tested from clicking on where you see Ulta Labs on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork

          This is a page to use to compare your lab results to where healthy people would fall: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values

          And once on that t3 (of which doctors usually prescribe a measly 5 micrograms, but in this case would be okay), with a lowered t4, we start raising the T3 a little at a time every week. Until we treat the cortisol problem we have, there will come a point it will cause hyperlike symptoms, so we drop back down, until we treat the cortisol problem.

          The above is all in a nutshell. It would pay to read the website and the book.

          • Forgot to say to you that your free T3 result may represent pooling due to your cortisol problem. Again, another reason to do saliva cortisol testing and treat the problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling. Most doctors also don’t understand this.

          • Stacy Cizek says:

            Thank you so much for your prompt reply. I have read through much of the site previously when my hubby was dealing with hypo issues, but have somehow failed to translate it to my own situation. What you said makes a lot of sense. Thank you, again.

  7. Sarah says:

    I suspect that the Fukushima incident has something to do with the medications being altered.

    • Not sure how that would have done this. That was ten years ago. And if pigs had been affected, many are now dead anyway and their thyroids aren’t being used. But all we can do is speculate.

  8. Bloomy says:

    Does anyone have a good doctor that does telemedicine in any state or in the new york area, that’s reasonably priced since I’m paying out of pocket. I’m already on Armour, need a refill soon and thinking about hormone replacement. I’m also doing the hashimoto protocol so we will see how it all goes. If they do phone/computer consults then they can be in any state

    • Maria says:

      Bloom,
      Did you find a good online endo? I live in central NY state were there seem to be no enlightened ones and I am searching for a good one as well. Let me know if you hear of any leads and I will do the same.

      • Linden says:

        Have you considered an osteopath? Mine is one. Endos HATE NDT, “It’s inconsistent, etc.

        I also called three reputable compounding pharmacies in my area, and they all said that they weren’t compounding it anymore, because of sourcing problems… Availability, consistent potency, etc. They were all just disgusted.

        I’m beyond frustrated.

  9. Michelle Bercier says:

    Hello,

    Preface, I live in Winnipeg, MB, Canada.

    I am almost 50 years old, and have been on Synthoid medication since in my 20’s. I went off the medication for a few years in my late 30’s and then went back on again. Outside of losing weight when I went on the medication, I had no side effects until the last couple years – I have been noticing an extreme amount of hair loss. My doctor referred me to a dermatologist who told me I had frontal fibrosing alopecia. I am using a steroid treatment for that, but it has done nothing. My hair loss has been increasing even more the last couple months. I can’t believe how much hair ends up in the tub every time I shower. I am losing my mind over this. I feel like at this rate I will be bald in about a year.

    I get my bloodwork done every 6 months. My dermatologist recommended that my doctor lower my Synthroid medication, which my doctor did, but that seems to have increase the hair loss.

    I want to make an appointment for more blood work and I need to specifically ask my doctor what levels I want tested, could someone here please guide me on what I should be asking for, keeping in mind I live in Canada, and there are certain tests that we can’t get done here.

  10. Janey G says:

    I have a virtual visit with my doctor tomorrow, who’s been very willing to work with me on information I’ve brought to him. I hate I didn’t think to research here until tonight. Any input you could offer would be appreciated.

    It took forever to get my levels to stabilize. I thought they had stabilized for awhile, but I just wrote my labs down in preparation for this virtual visit tomorrow and it appears I’ve been in a slow decline for awhile. I can’t remember the last time I could think – or speak – well. My focus is shot. I’m forgetting things I used to never forget. Everything is hard. So bad, I went and had an evaluation for Alzheimer’s. He said it’s definitely not that. Praise the Lord! But…

    I’m only 55. My oldest is getting married in May. I need my brain to work!

    As I look over the past 4 years, it looks like my levels were really only stable for about a year with FT3 at 3.4-3.9 (2.0-4.4 pg/mL range) and FT4 1.26-1.44 (0.82-1.77 ng/dL range).

    FT3/FT4 respectively:
    11/28/18: 3.4/1.26
    4/18/19: 3.9/1.29
    10/29/19: 3.9/1.44

    In December of 2019, my FT3 dropped back down to 3.3 and has hovered there while my FT4 has bounced around…

    12/27/19: 3.3/1.17
    But these ranges were different:
    FT3 2.18-3.98 pg/mL
    FT4 0.76-1.46 ng/dL

    3/24/20: 3.4/1.35
    10/26/20: 3.3/1.52
    2/3/21: 3.1/1.25
    With this last set of labs, I also convinced him to run RT3. Apparently they weird doing that pan because insurance with covering it. Anyway, that result was 18.4 with a “normal” range of 9.2-24.1

    Here are the dates RT3 has previously been checked, along with the results – followed by FT3/FT4
    11/28/17 13.5 4.0/.76
    5/26/17 14.9 2.9/1.00
    3/31/17 10.8 2.8/.88
    2/14/17 29.9 1.8/1.13 (this one seems to contraindicate the norm)
    6/21/16 12.8 3.0/1.06 TSH 0.009
    5/13/16 9.2 1.8/0.51 TSH 7.340
    5/5/16 12.2 1.8/0.53 TSH 1.00
    4/21/16, no RT3, but 4.9/1.06 with 0.005 TSH
    4/5/16: 3.8/0.91
    2/2/16: 4.2/1.52 with TSH 0.005

    None of the labs from 2016 make sense to me.
    With the exception of three times (0.005, 0.017, and 0.014), my TSH has been at <0.006 or <0.005 since the 6/21/16 lab.

    They ran antibodies again on 10/29/20:
    Thyroglobulin antibody<1.0 (0.0-0.9)
    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <9 (0-34)

    I do have hemochromatosis mutation of homogeneous C282y. Up until the last year, I’ve had normal to high hemoglobin, iron, and sat with low ferritin. In the last year, about 6 years after my hysterectomy, all measures are confidently high normal to high above range.

    I do have an MTHFR mutation, but I was told it was the mild one that wouldn’t cause issues.

    From what I gather from reading your site, it appears the most severe hemochromatosis mutation didn’t cause issues until recently, but the MTHFR may have been undermining me all along.

    I started off on NP, but they couldn’t get it right, so switched me to levothyroxine and liothyronine to have more flexibility with dosages. I’m currently on 100 of Levo with a total of 15 Lio (10 in am with Levo and another 5 at night). I’ve seen people talking about having more success with compounded slow-release liothyronine. After reading your site, it looks like I need to check my local pharmacy’s sourcing first.

    I’m tired of not feeling well. And note I’ve got these atrocious bags under my eyes and dry eyes to boot – I didn’t notice them until I tried to wear contacts. That was a nightmare.

    Any help you can offer will be most appreciated!
    Thank you I have a virtual visit with my doctor tomorrow, who’s been very willing to work with me on information I’ve brought to him. I hate I didn’t think to research here until tonight. Any input you could offer would be appreciated.

    It took forever to get my levels to stabilize. I thought they had stabilized for awhile, but I just wrote my labs down in preparation for this virtual visit tomorrow and it appears I’ve been in a slow decline for awhile. I can’t remember the last time I could think – or speak – well. My focus is shot. I’m forgetting things I used to never forget. Everything is hard. So bad, I went and had an evaluation for Alzheimer’s. He said it’s definitely not that. Praise the Lord! But…

    I’m only 55. My oldest is getting married in May. I need my brain to work!

    As I look over the past 4 years, it looks like my levels were really only stable for about a year with FT3 at 3.4-3.9 (2.0-4.4 pg/mL range) and FT4 1.26-1.44 (0.82-1.77 ng/dL range).

    FT3/FT4 respectively:
    11/28/18: 3.4/1.26
    4/18/19: 3.9/1.29
    10/29/19: 3.9/1.44

    In December of 2019, my FT3 dropped back down to 3.3 and has hovered there while my FT4 has bounced around…

    12/27/19: 3.3/1.17
    But these ranges were different:
    FT3 2.18-3.98 pg/mL
    FT4 0.76-1.46 ng/dL

    3/24/20: 3.4/1.35
    10/26/20: 3.3/1.52
    2/3/21: 3.1/1.25
    With this last set of labs, I also convinced him to run RT3. Apparently they weird doing that pan because insurance with covering it. Anyway, that result was 18.4 with a “normal” range of 9.2-24.1

    Here are the dates RT3 has previously been checked, along with the results – followed by FT3/FT4
    11/28/17 13.5 4.0/.76
    5/26/17 14.9 2.9/1.00
    3/31/17 10.8 2.8/.88
    2/14/17 29.9 1.8/1.13 (this one seems to contraindicate the norm)
    6/21/16 12.8 3.0/1.06 TSH 0.009
    5/13/16 9.2 1.8/0.51 TSH 7.340
    5/5/16 12.2 1.8/0.53 TSH 1.00
    4/21/16, no RT3, but 4.9/1.06 with 0.005 TSH
    4/5/16: 3.8/0.91
    2/2/16: 4.2/1.52 with TSH 0.005

    None of the labs from 2016 make sense to me.
    With the exception of three times (0.005, 0.017, and 0.014), my TSH has been at <0.006 or <0.005 since the 6/21/16 lab.

    They ran antibodies again on 10/29/20:
    Thyroglobulin antibody<1.0 (0.0-0.9)
    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <9 (0-34)

    I do have hemochromatosis mutation of homogeneous C282y. Up until the last year, I’ve had normal to high hemoglobin, iron, and sat with low ferritin. In the last year, about 6 years after my hysterectomy, all measures are confidently high normal to high above range.

    I do have an MTHFR mutation, but I was told it was the mild one that wouldn’t cause issues.

    From what I gather from reading your site, it appears the most severe hemochromatosis mutation didn’t cause issues until recently, but the MTHFR may have been undermining me all along.

    I started off on NP, but they couldn’t get it right, so switched me to levothyroxine and liothyronine to have more flexibility with dosages. I’m currently on 100 of Levo with a total of 15 Lio (10 in am with Levo and another 5 at night). I’ve seen people talking about having more success with compounded slow-release liothyronine. After reading your site, it looks like I need to check my local pharmacy’s sourcing first.

    I’m tired of not feeling well. And note I’ve got these atrocious bags under my eyes and dry eyes to boot – I didn’t notice them until I tried to wear contacts. That was a nightmare.

    Any insight you can offer will be most appreciated!
    Thank you!

  11. Joann says:

    I recently tried switching from NP to Tirosint/Liothyronine and after a month or so I began with terrible headaches/migraines within 30 minutes of the meds. I stopped taking them completely and headaches stopped. I tried taking it at night, head starts pounding so bad cant sleep. I tried splitting the dose. I feel so out of it and unable to function. Ive been on WP, Naturethroid, then NP for years. Developed many of the symptoms described by others so decided to switch. Initially seemed ok, less puffy, more clear headed. I do have other health conditions making some symptoms hard to distinguish but also more important to keep thyroid optimal and ruled out as a contributor. My doc is not sure what to do and neither am I. Over 10 years Hashimotos. If NDT’s arent working, Tirosint is causing me so many headaches what would be another option? I was on 210mcg of NP.

  12. Emily J says:

    I believe I may have finally gotten the right dose of NDTs, after many increases Each time I raised the dose, started to feel better, then CRASH! Again and again… The crash came faster and more severe each time it happened to me.

    I started out on a very low 16.25 mg of WP Thyroid in early 2018, finally getting prescribed 120 mg of Armour Thyroid in September 2020. At that time, I was Ok for a bit, even had one week where my energy level seemed great. The next week, CRASH, can’t focus, couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, horrible depression. I got my blood tests again in late October right after I noticed the crash.

    Blood tests were at
    Free T4: 0.8 (range 0.8-1.8)
    Free T3: 3.3 (range 2.3-4.2)
    (Note: the blood test results I had from the tests takes just before WP was recalled, on 130 mg were just slightly lower: Free T4 0.7, Free T3: 3.2)

    But still they were not high enough, as I had just crashed again! Sadly, someone from my doctor’s office called and said I was on the right dose and they wouldn’t change it right then. My depressed, suicidal thoughts made it impossible to attempt to disagree, even though I KNEW I wasn’t o.k. (Really, I fell so far so fast this time!) So I increased my dose on my own, which I could do bc I had lots of the recalled WP left, and I ALWAYS make sure to refill my 30 day prescription as early as I can, which is after 26 days so I get a little bit more. (I’ve panicked a lot about running out of my NDTs because time has shown how often it is unavailable.)

    4 weeks of taking 120 mg Armour, 65 mg WP, feeling fantastic! Then I ran out of WP and switched to
    3 weeks of taking 180 mg Armour, still feel fantastic, except for 1) I am way hotter than everyone else and 2) liquid diarrhea every day. I figure those were hyper- symptoms so I lower the dose to
    6 weeks of 160 mg Armour, maybe a little less energy but the overheatedness and the diarrhea are gone.

    Current labs (6 weeks later):
    Free T4: 1.1 (range 0.8-1.8)
    Free T3: 3.8 (range 2.3-4.2)

    I hope my Doctor will prescribe me the 160 mg dose that has been working for me, because I don’t think it’s a standard amount. Fortunately, I found a doctor who is willing to work with me and listen to my symptoms, who also knows to ignore the suppressed TSH, which is always out of range for someone who is taking NDTs. (I fired three doctors along the way. That was a terrible period of my life, knowing I had Hashimoto’s and not getting treatment.)

    Does anyone have experience with taking a little too much NDTs? Are the diarrhea and overheating the symptoms I should look for? I did not notice any heart palpitations or anything like that. Or is it foolish to not request the higher 180 mg dose, seeing as I was feeling great except for the heat and diarrhea?

    I feel like I am the textbook example everything you say on this site! Optimal must be T3 upper part of range and T4 in the middle. Bad doctors try to put them blame on us. The sad truth that when we are really feeling so crappy, it is just about impossible to try to advocate for ourselves.
    By the way, I have noticed that I generally feel good on a dose that was increased after four weeks, but by six weeks, the hormone stabilizes and that is when I begin to feel bad if the dose is still too low.

    Thank you for all the information! It has helped me so much!

    • Your labs look an awful like you are pooling. Check this information out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling

    • StarrD says:

      Hi, Emily. If it were me, I definitely would’ve lowered my thyroid dose if I saw I was getting
      hotter than everyone else and the liquid diarrhea, even I wasn’t getting heart palps or
      chest pain, etc. I was first diagnosed with hyperthyroidism (Grave’s Disease), and
      those symptoms are like red flags my original thyroid doctor would look for, if I was
      either getting too much hormone from my own gland, or later on, too much hormone
      from the thyroid-replacement hormone pills I’d need to take. I think it may be possible
      to get such symptoms if you are super-low thyroid (I think I’ve been in that situation, before),
      but it’s probably a lot more common to get those symptoms if your thyroid level is too high.
      Keep working with a good doctor on this. I know it’s hard, but hang in there!

    • Emily J says:

      Thank you Janie and StarrD for your input. Janie’s response, which indicated that I might be pooling, made me look further. I am almost certain I have the MTHFR mutation. My iron labs showed higher than normal iron with ultra low ferritin. Here are my iron labs:

      Total Iron: 208 (40-190 range)
      Iron Binding Capacity: 347 mcg/dL
      % Saturation: 60% (range 16-45)
      Ferritin: 22 ng/mL (range 16-232)

      Assuming I have the MTHFR mutation, 10 days ago, I stared supplementing with Vitamin D3 10,000 IU, Methylated B-12 2,500 mcg (yes, this is very high but I’ve previously responded well to a Vitamin B-12 injection), folate 5-MTHF 400 mcg, milk thistle 175X3 mg, Vitamin C 750 mg, Calcium 1000 mg, magnesium 400 mg, zinc 15 mg, and a liquid methylated multi-vitamin formulated for hair growth. I am doing my best to avoid “enriched” foods due to their folic acid content.

      I noticed an improvement within a few days of this regimen and I woke up with energy for the first time in SEVEN years yesterday. It’s been a long struggle, but I feel I am finally going to get my life back.
      THANK YOU! Seriously, I couldn’t have done it without you.

      • Pooling isn’t about high iron. It’s about T3 going high in the blood due to not making it to the cells due to a cortisol problem.

        But glad you started looking into your high iron and MTHFR issue. 🙂

        • Emily J says:

          Thanks again! I misunderstood, I thought pooling was because of either cortisol or iron issues but I just checked again and yes, you only said cortisol. I was not able to convince my endocrinologist to give me a saliva cortisol test. He said there are too frequent issues with the collection of the saliva tests so he only gave me a script for the blood cortisol test. I live in one of the states where we can’t order the saliva test on our own.
          I know you said blood cortisol tests are useless, but I will take the tests he wrote me anyway because it’s what I have. I will see my PCP in a few weeks and will see if they will give me the saliva cortisol test there.
          I will do anything in my power to avoid the next crash!

          • What your Endo said about saliva is one of the biggest pieces of BS I’ve heard in a long time. Lol. It’s like they create a total made-up lie to diss what they know nothing about.

            Yes, do whatever you can to get that saliva testing done. A cortisol blood test is a waste of your blood, time and money. Even if your blood cortisol is one of those rare times that agrees with saliva, it’s only a one-time test. We need to know what’s going on at four key times, which saliva gives us.

  13. Ron says:

    I don’t see any reference to the Ancestral Supplements brand on here. Any feedback/experience for Hashimoto?

    • Ron, it’s always up to you. But we have not seen ONE otc bovine work quite as well as a working NDT prescription…IF the prescription hasn’t gone south. lol. There are inherent problems, here or there.

  14. Karen King says:

    I’ve been on NP for 3 years and have seen no changes in its good results. I get mine from the Walmart pharmacy. It’s now time to get a 90-day refill. Should I schedule an appt with my (excellent) provider before I get the refill to see if she suggests some other med? What I’m getting in my bottle are still the plain Small round grayish tablets that smell a little but not much.

    • You know, we do see a handful of people who think they are still doing good on what was rightly recalled, but their labs reveal they really weren’t dong good at all. Or they someone managed to still be on the pre-changed NP because the pharmacy had a large stock. All I can say is that if it was me, I’d definitely move over to what we know still works: Armour or T4/T3.

  15. Tony says:

    Hey Janie, I have also had major problems with Prescription NDT and Synthetic medicine (allergies). Maybe we can get a group us to organize a way back to normalcy. Anyway, I’m up for it if there is interest.

  16. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Hi Janie. Do you think that it is the end for NDT now as there are so many with problems?

  17. Kay Wood says:

    I gave on NP as well about four months ago. Clearly the formula was changed then there was a problem with there too much T3 in some of the pills then too little. I would say whatever they (all of them) were using in the formulations for years stopped being available at least in the U.S.. When this kind of thing happens it’s best to say “we had a good run” and move on. I don’t believe there is any proof that those formulations included anything besides T4 and T3, we can get those elsewhere, so our goal should be to have those be as superior as possible. Like Tirosint. Insurance companies should not dictate what we can take. Companies making synthetics should be encouraged and rewarded for making clean products, meaning no unnecessary stuff, no cheap fillers, no allergens and no gluten. Let the NDT companies fall away, they also had a good run.

    • Kristen Williams says:

      Hi Kay,
      After stopping NDT did you switch to Tirosint? Or did you do a mix of Tirosint and T3 Cytomel? Also does anyone know if Tirisant comes in veggie capsule?

      Thank you!

  18. Joanne Seward says:

    Hi Janie,
    Had lab tests come back..0.034 TSH and T4 in normal range. She said slightly hyper as a result.
    On a compounded formula of T4 40.8 mcg, T3 9
    7mcg. M,W, F one / day, rest of week 2 / day. Hair thinning, short of breath not sure agree with hyper as she said. Yourv thoughts…
    Going to do cortisol testing.

  19. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Hi Janie. I know you say people seem to like Thyreogland ftom Germany. Do you have any more positive information about it please?

  20. Dawn says:

    Hi Janie, I hope you are doing well. What are your thoughts on NP returning to its original form? A while back I received an email from Acella stating they are working on correcting the medication. Would you trust it at this point, or is there still the tainted medication in the pharmacies?
    Also, which brand of Cytomel is best? I have Celiac and cannot metabolize many fillers, so the less the better, and gluten free.
    Thank you so much for all of your help and guidance! Let’s hope 2021 is a positive turn about!

    • I can only speak for me, but with what I know personally, plus have read, my disappointment in Acella is huge and I don’t trust them at all.

      Both Cytomel and Sigma Pharm seem to be quality T3 products based on patient reports. I have also used them and like either.This doesn’t take away that other brands may be okay.

  21. Cheryl says:

    I was just prescribed 30mg Thyroid NP by Acella. I have never been on thyroid meds before, but my naturopath said I have a slightly sluggish thyroid. She prescribed this along with some hormones. I googled Thyroid NP and the first thing I see is all kinds of recall stuff about it, but I’m confused how I got a prescription filled yesterday on something that is apparently recalled?? Now I’m questioning whether to start taking it or not? I would so appreciate any advice you could give!

  22. Sera says:

    Any knowledge about the compound brand Thyreogland?

  23. Mary McK says:

    It is such a relief to find this page. I was/am caught in the NDT maelstrom – my NDT (NatureThroid) recalled, alternative (NP) tasted disgusting and made me nauseous, thence to compounded NDT, after a month the compounding pharmacy couldn’t get the porcine powder for the foreseeable future. Now I’m on Armour since about a week. In 15 years since my Hashimoto’s diagnosis I have never been optimal or felt well. I wondered if I just kept developing new unrelated health problems like mold sickness, or depression, or what-have-you. This page gives me hope that it’s ALL THYROID and I can feel better. Heart palpitations and feeling out of breath when I have to climb one flight of stairs or walk up a hill is something I’m desperate to address. For some reason my providers at the integrative medicine clinic seem to look only at TSH, even though they test free T3 & T4, and if the TSH goes low they lower my dose of NDT, so I never get my free T3/free T4 to an optimal place. Now I’m armed with what others have discovered, so I can ask for a higher dose. Any thoughts about how much to raise the dose at one time? I’m on 75 mg Armour, my Free T4 is 1.0 (range 0.8-1.8); Free T3 is 2.8 (range 2.3-4.2). TSH 0.3 (range 0.4-4.5). Thanks for any tips you can give me and thank you so much for this site. I have ordered your Hashimoto’s book 🙂

  24. Alana says:

    Tried Armour this week after I ran out of Naturethroid —I hated it. Was having tons of side effects and feeling very hypo. I am on compound TR-T3 (5mcg). Talked to the pharmacist at the compound pharmacy about my options. I am starting compounded dessicated thyroid tomorrow. The pharmacist said Armour has a lot of fillers and this is what I believe I was having side effects from. I will report back.

  25. Sarah says:

    Hi, thank you for this site. I was on naturethroid for years, and had to just move to NP thyroid by Acella. I took 90mg of naturethroid so was prescribed 90mg of the NP thyroid . I’ve taken half a dose each day for 4 days and felt so terrible that I had to stop. I was exhausted, felt drugged and tired, slightly nauseous, and then at 4pm felt really shaky and cold. The doctor told me to stop, said it would get worse not better if I carried on. I’d love to know if the side effects I had are common and/or are to do with the issues Acella are having. My doctor is now only able to give me the option of synthroid and Tirosint because of all the recalls. Would love opinions.

  26. Brenda says:

    Because of the recall, I just switched this morning to Euthrox (walmart generic for levothyroxine) (137mcg) and generic Liothyronine (Sigma) 1/2 (50mcg) from WP Thyroid 3 grain 5 days and 4 grain 2 days. I have been tired for a couple of years but my doc and I concur that my numbers were all good. I had been on Cytomel and Levoxyl before I switched to Westhroid over 10 years ago. And had to change because when the generic came available my insurance charged full price for Cytomel and the generic did not work. Westhroid was much cheaper.
    Before my doctor gave me the new prescriptions, I looked up the ingredients for the different generic formulas of liothyronine and Sigma was the closest to cytomel. And my mail in pharmacy has sigma. I took my first dose this morning and I swear, about 3 hours later I felt more clear in my mind. ?????

  27. Jenny says:

    I am trying to be an advocate for myself, but I am still learning and therefore prone to screw up, which I don’t want to do. Here are my lab results from a week ago:
    TSH 0.58m IU/L (this number has decreased each of the last three years, was 1.73 at its highest in 2017)
    FT4 1.10 ng/dL
    FT3 2.81pg/mL
    RT3 16.2 ng/dL
    TPO AB 271 IU/mL (dx Hashimotos in 2009, probably have had it longer)
    Vitamin D 29.5 ng/mL (started supplement earlier this week)

    Steady at 112 mcg Levothyroxine for about 9 years. I have been on AIP diet for 10 weeks, digestive issues resolved but no change to extreme fatigue/exhaustion & brain fog. Based on my labs I believe I need to add T3; my problem is that my GP is not well versed in thyroid issues (although I believe she may be receptive because she ran all of those labs at my own request with no pushback at all) and I live in a rural area without access to a specialist. I am at a total loss as to whether I should try Armour or just stick with Levo and add Cytomel. I would like to try Armour but my doctor may not know what dosage to use. I have read so many pros and cons to both that I am at a point that I just want to bury my head in the sand. Thoughts?

    • Hi Jenny. Either T4/T3, or Armour, are working great if you get optimal. Check out this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      And because you’ve been on nothing but T4 for so long, you might want to look into the information on iron results and cortisol: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol

      • Jenny says:

        Thanks, Janie. I am going to ask for Armour. Regarding the math: I would think it would be advisable to start at 1 grain; however that only provides 38 mcg of T4. Would I need to continue to also take Levothyroxine at a lower dose (75 mcg) in order to continue getting my 112 daily dose of T4?

        • Just an FYI so you can decide: most of us do not add T4 to Armour. Armour is already 80% T4 anyway. We just learned early on to start on one grain (to allow our body to get used to the direct T3 in it) then raise approximately every two weeks by 1/2 grain, slowing down in the 2-3 grain areas and redoing the free T4 and free T3. A lot of what we learned is in chapter 2 of the updated revision STTM book (just ignore the part in that chapter that said NP Thyroid was still good–that was written before patients started complaining about it, then the recall). Here’s that book: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/ It’s all info you can share with your doctor, too.

          Also, we found it wise to test iron and cortisol (here’s information to read and decide: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol) because if either are off, it causes problems when raising.

    • hi Janie, thanks for your extensive information regarding the downfall of NDT. I’ve been taking in NDT since 2012 and I have noticed a gradual decline in its effectiveness-I go to a compounding pharmacy in Australia. And I’ve never question their source – always believing it was armour thyroid. In the last six months the colour has changed from white to grey. And the potency doesn’t seem as strong. And I’m also noticing some unusual and worrying side-effects. I called my pharmacist today and asked them where they sourced it from one pharmacist told me it was Armour thyroid. The next one said it was from Europe somewhere. I insisted they find out where the somewhere was in Europe. They called me back and said Spain. I asked them which company. They couldn’t tell me. I insisted they Find out which company they get the desiccated thyroid extract is coming from. They say that it is regulated- because we have the therapeutic goods administration TGA here in Australia -so they say it is good quality. However I have noticed a change. Apparently everyone in Australia is sourcing their thyroid extract from compounded from Spain. I’ve decided that I no longer have faith in a product that I don’t know where it comes from and its potency is declining and I’m getting side-effects. So I’m going to trial T4 T3. Thank you Chenelle Hitchcock

  28. JrBor says:

    I tried to add 10mcg T3 by Greenstone embossed with KPI 115 but it felt like I was taking nothing, absolutely no therapeutic benefit. The next day I took 1 grain of NP which has 9.5 mcg of T3 and felt it within the hour. Improvement in mood, appetite and energy. Is there something wrong with brands of synthetic T3? Is there one more superior than the other?

    • It seems to be individual. I’m using greenstone and feel fine. I do prefer Cytomel or Sigma Pharm. Probably because greenstone is cheaper for a pharmacy, they will sneakily switch you to greenstone. So you have to keep an eye on that before you walk out of the store.

      • JrBor says:

        Thanks for the tip. I’ve never tried the name brand Cytomel but I understand Greenstone is a subsidiary of Pfizer, the makers of Cytomel. Do you happen to know if Cytomel is also manufactured my King Pharmaceuticals or if it has different embossing on the Cytomel pills? Obviously, I wouldn’t want to pay name brand prices if it’s really the same pill being supplied as a generic!

        I thought it was odd to take 10 mcg of the greenstone and feel absolutely no therapeutic benefit, not even a body temp increase. I’ll see if anyone chimes in about other brands. Thanks again

  29. Kimberly Rozanski says:

    I am getting ready to switch from Euthyrox 125mcg to Armour.
    Also, where are people ordering Armour online? How long should I take Armour before having labs run?

  30. Nancy H. says:

    I just started Armour Thyroid 3 days ago, I have been on Tirosint for the past 3 months and Levothyroxine for 27 years prior. After the loss of my mom last Summer I started having isssues with my thyroid. The doctor added Cytomel and I developed even worse insomnia than I already had and I was extremely heat intolerant so I had to stop taking it. I also found out I have sleep apnea. She took me off T3 and tested me a month after and I have gone full blown hypothyroid again. I begged her to let me try Armour, thank GOD she let me. Only after 3 days I feel like a new person, I have slept through the night, something I haven’t done in 10 years. I don’t want to believe it’s just “adrenaline”…… I’m hopeful and praying that something will finally work for me. I get tested again in a month, keeping my hopes high and my fingers crossed.

  31. Tomer says:

    Hey! about to start with the NDT from Munich Klösterl-Apotheke “Thyreogland 40”. after being on T3 only.

    Anyone has any knowledge about the potency and current efficiency of Thyreogland?

    Shimpent should arrive tomorrow.

  32. Megan says:

    Finding this information is so helpful so thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. I thought I was depressed for the past few months (blaming this crazy year) due to my extreme exhaustion and all the other horrible physical symptoms I’ve been experiencing. Now I’m positive it’s my hypo back due to the recall of my NDT. Sigh. While I wait for my doctor to get back to me, can anyone recommend a good OTC support that might help ease symptoms a little until my doctor figures out next steps? I was taking NP.

    • To alleviate depression? 5-htp is a good one and in higher amounts than the bottle says for some of us.

      • Kinshasa says:

        I do NOT recommend Ashwaganda to be taken concurrently with 5HTP. Use one or the other.

        I had good results with both 5HTP and Ashwaganda but Ashwaganda worked better on my mood.

        5HTP provided better quality sleep although I did not get more actual hours of rest sleep. I noticed while on it, That my mood was still “crunchy” and sad.

        Ashwaganda helped a great deal with sleep and mood.

        Brands matter. Like anything else, I had to titrate the doses (within label guidelines) to find what works best.

        The brand Gaia works best for Ashwaganda for me.

        The brand NOW for 5HTP works best in my family’s experience.

        Again, please note: I am not recommending the use of these supplements together.

        • Actually, most brands have been fine, as proven by so many patient reported experiences. And there are some who have used both together without any problems. So if you don’t want to put them together, that’s fine. But they have been fine together for others.

  33. Karla says:

    Hello Janie – and anyone else with thoughts regarding Nutri-Meds bovine thyroid supplement. I know it says this has been around since you started this blog, Janie…and by the way, THANK YOU for everything you do with this blog and your information and books!! This website saved my life years ago, and I’m so very appreciative of you and this community!!

    I have been on a full replacement of thyroid for many years, and have been through the issues with NDT since the change in Armour, then Erfa and now NP – UGH! DISGUSTED indeed, Janie! I could not agree with you more!! I take about 3 grains of NP and have been feeling worse and worse, and yes, the new horrid smell is awful!! Do you know of any people on Nutri-Meds Bovine, who are taking a full replacement with no thyroid function – and this is successful for them? Their website reviews are great, but not specific enough to know if anyone is taking a full replacement. I’m a little scared to try to change over to this, but also so incredibly frustrated with Big Pharma and the issues that keep happening – and not feeling great anyway – and I’d love to be free of needing a pharmacy altogether! It seems like the Nutri-Meds products have been around for a while and are more stable. If you know of any reports – or anyone who has tried Nutri-Meds themselves, please do share. Also, I know their website says there is no way to convert amounts of their product to other thyroid medications, but wondering if there is a guesstimate (like there is for THYROGOLD) of conversion? I’d be really curious if anyone has a story about converting over to this from NDT, and how that went for you, especially if anyone who needs full replacement of thyroid can comment? THANK YOU!!

    Also, is there such a thing as T3 supplements OTC, or are they all prescription? All the BEST to you all!

    • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

      Hi I have tried Nutra meds but unfortunately they didn’t work at all for me and just like current NDT on sale, my hypo symptoms returned with a vengeance.

      • Paul, I have a feeling you still need to read this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Karla says:

        Thank you, Paul! What are you taking now? Janie makes a good point, it is important to get to optimal levels.

        Janie, do you have any information/advice regarding Nutri Meds? Thank you!!

        • Nutri Meds has been around a long time. It used to be quite weak. But this year, there seem to be a body of people who are reporting doing well on it. And as has been explained to Paul, we have to attempt to get our frees optimal before deciding something doesn’t work.

        • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

          Struggling with what is left of my Thiroid from Thailand plus Levo. Praying that NDT will return to the once excellent medication again.

          • Nancy says:

            I have no thyroid and was on 2.75 grains (178.75mg) of Nature-Throid using three tablets. I could tell that the NDT was weaker, so I added Nutri-Meds. I ordered the 130mg tablet. I took the Nutri-Med tablet first since it would not split evenly and then added NDT slowly as recommended. I cut my NDT tablets in half and kept a record of the number of mg. I ended up with 130 mg of Nutri-Med plus 89.375 of Nature-Throid. For over a year my numbers were optimal. I hope this helps.

  34. L. C. says:

    Hi Janie, I could use some help. I am on Armour of 1.5 grains. I tried to go up to 2 grains, and I felt better but then my blood pressure was out of control, so I dropped back down to the 1.5 grains. My labs before I tried the 2 grains reflected I had room to move up a dose, but I also did not take my medication that morning before my blood test. Normally I take my Armour before my blood test, and test in the afternoon.
    I did go through a period of extreme stress for one year due to a spouse’s deployment. Since then I have gained a ton of weight and it won’t come off despite exercise and eating healthy, and I still have joint swelling at times. I also don’t feel like my face looks normal–like my eyes are a bit bulgy and they also feel swollen at times.
    Typically when my labs are tested I have a low FT4 and decent FT3 and completely suppressed TSH. I do seem to feel better when my FT4 is a little closer to mid-range, but it seems like it is not in that spot very often and I don’t know how to get it there, especially since my blood pressure was out of control when I attempted to go up to 2 grains. My endo is pretty good–she treats on both labs and symptoms–but when I mentioned adrenal fatigue she said that was basically not possible. :/
    I am assuming you are going to tell me my adrenals are a mess…. But I have a stressful job and three children, and I am also a person whose nature it is to worry over things, so I just do not know where I would even begin to calm down my adrenals (and no, I will not quit my job because I also love it). I don’t even really know where to begin with adrenal fatigue and how to fix it, if that’s the problem. And, even if I could begin to fix it, will I even be able to tell? I need some results in order to stay motivated.
    Sorry. That’s a lot of information, but I am feeling so lost.
    Thanks in advance.

    • Hi. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me Because it sounds like it’s revealing an iron and/or cortisol problem.

    • jeffrey says:

      I think calming/fixing/ however we word it, an adrenal/cortisol problem is hard to do when “our foot is constantly on the gas pedal”. That has been my experience, many pieces to the pie also. Resting during the day for 30 min on your back (even in the middle of a shit storm), Adrenal support herbs…I use Gaia Adrenal Health, nice combo and they are liquid caps so I chew them and let it absorb for a few mins before I swallow. And then we have diet…what are you eating, when are you eating it. Dr Christianson has some informative youtube vids on “carb cycling” for adrenal reset. I use all these and have over the years which brings me to not only optimal on 1 grain of Armour but overall vibrant health, I’m always having to tweak things as the body/enviroment/stress levels are always in flux, its life…

  35. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Hi Janie and others. Has anybody heard of a medication called Natural Sources raw thyroid. I can’t tolerate synthetic t3 but need natural desdicated products that work and are available. I have heard good things about Natural Sources raw thyroid but wondered how much I need to take? Any advice please? I was taking between 2.5 and 3 grains of Armour but here in the U.K it proved hugely expensive.

  36. LC says:

    I contacted a pharmacy in Thailand that sells thyroid s and says it’s in stock. They told me there are new custom rules for the us, which requires a prescription and giving your ssn. They can provide the script but I would have to give my ssn. They said they can ship to other countries without this requirement. They said I could have it shipped to some one in Canada or the UK for example. I’m not going to risk giving my ssn but I thought this was interesting and I’m not sure I trust it although they have a lot of good reviews. Supposedly manufacturing has not stopped but is limited. Just thought I’d share this interesting find.

    • housemaid says:

      If the Thai company wants your SS number, then you know it is a scam. SS numbers are never supposed to be used for ID, so Customs would never require that. I am doing better on the 3 grains of Thyroid-S than I was on the 2 grains Armour plus 1 grain of Thyroid-S. I guess my prior temporary dizziness was from something else, because I have not been sick on the Thai pills. In spite of the slight pee smell and the many unknown fillers they put into Thyroid-S, I will keep on taking what I have, but not buy any more Thyroid-S now that the price has quadrupled. I have enough to last over a year and am hoping that my beloved WP goes back to what it used to be by that time.

  37. Lisa P says:

    I’m looking for a replacement for my WP Thyroid and was wondering if you had any thoughts or had heard anything good/bad about the supplements “GTA Forte II” (from Biotics Research) or “Thyroid” (from Priority One) [bovine glandular sourced from New Zealand with rice chelate as the only filler]? Thanks!

  38. Ginger says:

    I’ve had a return of symptoms for the past several months on Nature-Throid. And now the recall. I get other compounds from my compounding pharmacy and this is the option I plan to try this time, a compound. I hope it works. I was so good for a long time, but now my symptoms are back with a vengeance. I did well on Armour years ago.

  39. Mary Ann says:

    Any advice on switching from subpotent Naturethroid to Armour. Would it be the same dose?

    • Since Naturethroid is now known to be sub-potent, patients have reported starting on less Armour then the amount of Naturethroid they were on. That gives them time to adjust to what is stronger (Armour) and do labs to find the right amount of Armour and raises.

      • Clara says:

        This is what I have been wondering and looking for!!! Thank you!
        I recently switched to Armour and went on the same dose as Naturethroid and my heart is doing funky things. I might be overdosed now that I am on a working medication.

  40. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Does anyone know if Erfa is working now as I was contacted saying that it is available again?

  41. housemaid says:

    I just read that RLC Labs is issuing a voluntary recall for both Nature-throid and WP for being too weak, sometimes as low as 87%. They are offering refunds on unexpired lots through the drugstore where you purchased it. They say they are unaware of any bad reactions to these under-performing batches. Ha! It has been about a year since all the NDT started going bad. Maybe they have used up the bad supply and will get a more reliable safe supply. I have hope that this is so. However, I have no hope that they will ever admit what was really wrong. It wasn’t just slightly weak pills as we all know. I would be willing to go back to WP if they ever get a good supply again, though. It was my favorite.
    https://www.rlclabs.com/voluntary-recall-information-and-forms.html

  42. housemaid says:

    I have been taking 2 grains of Armour and 1 grain Thyroid-S for about a week. I decided I would never know if either was working properly as long as I combined the two, so I took 3 grains of the Thyroid-S today. I feel quite dizzy and weak now. Was that one of the signs of the bad NP that smelled like cat urine? These Thyroid-S pills made in August 2019 do have a taste/smell of cat urine, and that was about the time that all the NDT started going bad. If I let the Thyroid-S dissolve instead of chewing it, the coating on it burns my tongue. The cat pee taste is somewhat masked by sugar.

    I need 3 grains of thyroid, but these 4 grain Armour pills I have crumble so badly when cut. I was always able to cut my other thyroid pills (NP, WP, and Nature-throid) easily to vary my dose as needed, but not these Armour pills. They are soft and chalky, have no smell or taste. I think I got an older batch since the hard coating I have been reading about is not there on the Armour pills I got.

    • Writegirl says:

      I had the same problem trying to cut the 4 grains in half, but then I found I could bite them in half. They split perfectly that way. Give it a try.

    • CAROL says:

      If you put your thumb and forefinger on each side of the three and four grain tablets, they will snap right in half.

  43. Sherry says:

    As a thyroid cancer patient, It is incredibly disappointing to experience the recalls with the NDTs. After 5 years without my thyroid, the way I feel is always a barometer of whatever replacement hormone I am taking. Unfortunately, what usually happens to me is that I start to notice hypo symptoms and never immediately think it is the NDT. Months go by before I even consider the NDT. In this case, with the Nature-throid, I had been complaining to my doctors for months not thinking it could be my replacement hormone. Of course now, I understand that I was hearing my body tell me I was “off”, and that it was the Nature-throid. I am going to work with my doctor to move away from NDT and go back to Tirosint and sublingual T3, should I need it.
    Being that I do not have my thyroid anymore, I cannot keep risking my health with the inconsistent NDTs and what seems to me like a cyclical chase to find “the right” NDT.
    Janie, you have been a wonderful source of information to me throughout my cancer journey, and I thank you. You have educated me enough to hear my body and demand more from my doctors. I will be ok because if I switch to synthetic and my body doesn’t like it, I know, from what you have taught me, that I have options.

  44. Lissa Huening says:

    I’ve just started hearing complaints that Armour is now going the way of Nature-throid (et al) and making people feel sub-optimal/hypo…have you heard anything about this? I feel like every time I find something that works, they change it! I finally switched to Armour a year or so ago and it’s been fine…I’m dreading the thought of having to start over yet AGAIN!!

  45. Carolyn says:

    So thankful for this information! Could you please explain again the “going backwards” idea? I’ve read and re-read the optimal page. Is it correct that thyroid hormone replacement is binary?Meaning you’re either making enough yourself or you’re not but to treat halfway or insufficiently is in the long run going to cost your body and other organs. So the idea that supplementing your natural production of thyroid hormones isn’t correct. If treating should treat and replace fully bc with any treatment HPA will be signaled to make less. Thank you for helping me understand. I’ve thought that supporting one’s own production was ideal but reading the optimal page seems that it’s not possible to “support” only to replace fully.

  46. Lynne De Luca says:

    To get on sublingual thyroid can you avoid blood work?

  47. Liz says:

    Hi. I am reading with horror the comments about Nature-Throid. I wondered why I wasn’t feeling so hot. I saw an older list of other recommendations and ordered Bovine Thyroid from Nutri-meds. is that still a reasonable option? So confusing!

  48. Jacqueline says:

    So no surprise to hear RLC has done a voluntary recall of Naturethroid. I’m skeptical to try anything. I was diagnosed hypo back in 2003. That’s when I first discovered STTM. I went to my dr and asked for Armour. When they said no, I searched and found a dr that put me on it. Then came the recall of that in 2009. I went to a compounded version. Loved that even more. Moved to CA, and switched to a new compounding pharmacy who said they could duplicate what I was on. Ha! Their version made me crash. Wasn’t the same at all. So I found a Naturopath who suggested Naturethroid. I’ve been on that since.

    • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

      They need to recall W.P as well as that is just as bad, if not worse!

    • Lynn says:

      I can’t find anything regarding how long RLC has said Naturethroid has been underperforming for. It’s been going on for sure for me since 6/19. Anyone know more?

      • Katina Fernandez says:

        I’ve had a battle with dosing and hypo symptoms on Naturethroid since the end of 2018.

      • Mary Ann says:

        I noticed around 2018 a change in the smell and taste, to me it went from a strong porkish smell to a bland powder. I’ve gone up to 51/2 grains from 2 grains! I still don’t feel as good as I used to. There always were differences in batches in my opinion, so I’d have to adjust the dose up or down but now I’ve had to keep going up and up. I have to take some T3 that my Doc makes and his thyroid formula and Thyroid PX. A good batch of potent Naturethroid used to be pretty good on its own.

  49. Sabrina BurchJohnson says:

    I’ve been on Levothyroxine for close to fifteen years or more. I’ve done well on it until recently. I switched pharmacy’s from a smaller mom & pop type pharmacy to CVS. After the switch my ankles are swollen and they appear to look as if there is a ring toss around both ankles. Physicians put me on a steroid and water pills. Steroid worked but it had an awful side effects on me and now off steroid ankles swole right back up. I’ve been begging my pcp ever since Dr. Hagglund moved from OKC to Tulsa. My PCP said he would look into it fifteen years ago, but to no avail he doesn’t seem to understand my hypothyroid.

  50. Angie says:

    Has anyone tried Levothyrox? It is used by many in France. Merck is the maker. It was recently brought back to market after controversy due to the return of hypo symptoms after a formula change. Supposedly you can get it in the U.S. at Walmart for $4.00 for 30 day supply.

  51. housemaid says:

    I have been using a 2016 bottle of Nature-throid for almost a year now and have only one week left. I ordered some Armour but it has been lost in the mail. For the last week I have noticed that my old Nature-throid is losing strength rapidly as my BP is really dropping and my temperature is only 97. I was able to buy a couple of bottles of Thyroid-S last December. I chewed one pill today and it had the smell & taste of cat urine that I remember from the NP prescription I bought last fall, although not as strong. It is not a “pork” smell. I am wondering if the manufacturer of Thyroid-S might have gotten their thyroid powder from the same contaminated source, which I think is Sichuan Friendly from China. Is anybody using Thyroid-S from last winter successfully? If so, what does yours taste like?

    • housemaid says:

      My Armour pills showed up in the mail today. I bought the 4 grain size intending to cut them in half. I used a brand new pill splitter, but they crumbled badly. There is no coating at all on the Armour pills. It seems like they have made them that way to prevent people from spitting them and saving money. The pills have absolutely no smell or taste of either cat urine or “pig”. That is a good thing, as I am worried about the Thyroid-S pills I bought last winter which have the smell of cat pee and a bad taste.

    • Amy Lynn says:

      @housemaid I have been taking Thyroid-S since March-ish, and I received my bottle in January or February, can’t remember which. Manufacture date: 2/9/19 with an expiration of 2/9/22. Haven’t noticed the cat pee taste or smell with mine when I chew them, only what I’d describe as a slight chemical taste/burn? Very hard coating to chew, so it’s kinda hard to tell exactly what’s inside. Probably all the fillers they use, which is unfortunate. Also the fact that no one can even get it anymore 😔 However, I am doing quite well on it despite that…I’m on 3 1/2-4 grains of it plus T3 but I’ll have to go off it next month due to lack of supply. But it’s been better than Armour (for me) as a temporary substitute after NP went downhill a year ago now. Compounded PCCA Ndt was the same, it started smelling like cat pee & basically was an expensive failure. Plus my only option for filler was a ton of cellulose in the capsules. Will be asking my Nurse Practitioner for Tirosint or Tirosint-Sol through the direct program to make more affordable, and T3. Seems the only rational next step forward after all these NDT mishaps. If they ever returns to their former glory, I’ll be back on them, but for now, nope. I’m done!

      • housemaid says:

        Amy Lynn, thanks for your reply. My Thyroid-S pills were manufactured in 8/19. That is about the time that NP and other brands of natural dessicated thyroid started going bad. I got 2 of the last 1000 pill bottles of Thyroid-S before the price doubled. I have been taking 2 grains of Armour with 1 grain of the Thyroid-S. When I use up the Armour pills (only bought 30), I will buy the 3 grain Armour. I have only been on the Armour for 4 days now. My BP and temperature have normalized. My hair loss has slacked off. But I still have build-up of dead skin cells all over my body, acne, weakness of arm muscles, and arthritis like pains in my hands. Those are all things that go away when I am optimal. It probably hasn’t been long enough, but I am thinking that I am not getting enough T3 from the Armour. The Thyroid-S isn’t making me sick, but I am worried about the cat pee smell and taste.

  52. Ashley says:

    I have been on Nature Throid and my labs finally tanked. Do you recommend trying Armour or just going straight to synthetics? I’m in the US and those are the 2 options I’m looking at. Thanks!

    • A lot of people have reported moving to either Armour or T4/T3 when they started having problems with Naturethroid, WP or NP.

      • Jeffrey says:

        I switched to Armour a little over a month ago, bumped my dose up a 1/4 grain (still on a very small dose) and I feel great! haven’t had labs yet but so far so good….pills look and smell like the old WP.

        • Yes, we have noticed we will feel good on doses that aren’t anywhere near optimal, but it usually backfire on us! So here’s the page on what we’ve learned about what it means to be optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          • Jeffrey says:

            Is there a page on your site that has “optimal numbers” ?

            I use/my doc the numbers for “functional medicine” and how I’m feeling. Not the standard range they is here in the US

            2 months into Armour, feeling epic!

          • Here you go: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal You’ll also see that you can order a Lab values card for easier reference.

          • Jeffrey says:

            Thanks! I compared my labs with your reference…i think it was Free3 in the upper range and Free 4 in the mid? Cant remember but….im completely optimal with 1 grain of Armour. Feel great, best in years….would love to hear people posting more positive experiences, seems like this blog is just filled with people that are suffering. Would just be nice to hear people report back that feel awesome 🙂

          • People who are doing well aren’t here as often as those trying to figure things out. But well-treated thyroid patients are out there!

        • April says:

          Hi Jeffrey,

          Are you still doing well on Armour? My old faithful (WP) was not working for me but I found an old bottle of NP from 2018 that I’m finishing. My doctor will then be switching over to Armour but I’ve heard mixed things about it for the long-term.

  53. Esther Roberts says:

    I am so puzzled. Since RLC resumed production I have been using NatureThroid because they didn’t have my WP. I adjusted to the new product and kept on an even keel by cutting the dose a bit twice a week. Oddly, for 2 months in early spring, and now again, I am getting symptoms of overdose: tenseness, irritability, shakiness, exhaustion, highly irritated digestive tract. Why would it suddenly be too high a dose? Testing only gets paid once a year. My new primary care doc not interested.

    • Ester, what you are describing may be more about a huge adrenaline release by your adrenals, simply because naturethroid does not work anymore. The body will usually release excess adrenaline when it’s alarmed about what’s going on… meaning being alarmed by your underlying hypothyroid state on naturethroid.

    • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

      Hi Janie just wondering if anyone knows the drop off rate whereby patients who used to buy W.P or Naturethroid, like me, no longer purchase from the company. It must be huge so I am wondering what their next move will be?

  54. Anna says:

    Thyroid-S is still being manufactured and the manufacturer (Sriprasit Phama) has no plans to discontinue it. I recently contacted them after reading a lots of rumors online and they confirmed it is NOT being discontinued. However, due to recent shortages of raw porcine powder due to an outbreak of Asian swine fever, the price has literally doubled in recent months, and the 1000 ct bottles are no longer available. The biggest bottle available now is a 500 ct bottle which costs more than a 1000 ct bottle used to cost (approx 100 GBP/130 USD for 500 pills). But it´s still cheaper than most prescription brands of NDT.

    • Hi Anna. Do know that others called Sriprasit Phama, and the word discontinue was used by the pharm. So it wasn’t a rumor. But we’ll hope they mean it was “discontinued” as far as not being produced for awhile, and will come back.

  55. Santa Stocking says:

    For the first time my ND and I had a difference of opinion with my lab numbers. Here are my recent labs:
    Free T3: range 1.7– 5.2, result 3.5
    Free T4: range 0.7 – 1.6, result 0.9
    RT3 : range 0.9 – 27.0, result 17.1
    I told her that my T3 should be 4.33, T4 should be 1.15 and that my RT3 should be 11.7 or below to be optimal. I was still having hypo syptoms with the medicine dosage that I was taking at the time of my lab work. So she increase my Tirosint 75 mcg 2 days/week, 50 mcg 5 days/week, T3 30 mcg BID. She felt that my current number were goods number so I told her those number still had me in hypo status. I’d love your opinion on this. Thank you mucho!!

  56. Joanne says:

    Does anyone know if there is a connection between thyroid medication and rashes. I have developed a rash around the back of my neck and groin area. Itchy, red, splotchy, spreads out and worse in the morning and evening. I am on WP Thyroid and think it has changed from before. Also, my hair is thinning terribly. I have celiac so if I were to switch to another thyroid medication it would be a tough challenge to do because of the fillers. Was on synthyroid for years, stopped working and now on WP. Not so sure THAT one is working now. Horrible situation… I think I have hives and will be seeing dermatologist this coming Thursday. Also, I am not sure the rashes are from 3 MRI contrast with gadolineum ( a toxic metal not a dye ) like I thought of which I am on a blog site for that issue. Trying to play detective here and looking for all the help I can get…..ugh !! Latest test results: Free T 4 – 0.89, TSH – 3.99 as of 7/6/20, B12 – 260. Thank you one and all…Take care !

    • Starr D. says:

      It is possible to get a rash from thyroid medicine, because I’ve had bad skin reactions from
      a couple of them….Cytomel, many years ago, gave me raised red bumps on my arms and
      stomach. Had to get off–they didn’t have generic T3 back then (that I know of), so it’s
      possible I would’ve been OK on that….drugs from different companies can have different
      fillers, dyes, etc. and sometimes that’s what causes the problem (inactive ingredients,
      they call them–but they aren’t totally inactive if they’re causing you problems.) I also
      had a really bad skin reaction from Levoxyl years ago…raised bumps, swelling, all kinds
      of horrible things. My bad reactions to these drugs got better gradually as I got off them.
      So, yes it can happen…not sure if that’s what’s going on in your case, but it can happen.

    • Joyce says:

      Starr D.: I’ve had a similar rash (red itchy circular blotches) on chest since switching from levothyroxine to Nature Thyroid.

  57. Sarah says:

    Hi Janie –

    I can’t seem to find the link with the picture of the chemical structure of NDT and synthetic T4.
    I’ve searched the website but I can’t seem to find it.
    I want to show my Endo synthetic T4 is not identical to our thyroid.
    can you direct me to the article / link?
    Thank you.

    • Synthetics are very similar, except that it’s a mirror image–the latter is the difference. But that’s not the issue with an Endo. The issue is that a healthy thyroid ALSO makes some direct T3. We are NOT meant to live for conversion alone, and there are simply too many life issues, including genetics, that can hinder that conversion. The latter is what narrow-minded Endo’s fail to consider. Fight for that. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work

  58. Dawn says:

    Hi Janie,
    I ordered Tru Thyroid from Thailand and received the two bottles last week. They do smell like the old NDT. They’re 30 mg each. I normally take 105 mg of NP, and had done well for many years on this dose. I have Celiac and am very health conscious regarding everything, to using no fluoride toothpaste and only drinking bottled water, to a very strict GF, dairy, egg, soy free diet.
    The first day I had to take 8 of the pills. Nothing, felt hypo, enlarged tongue, water bloat, brain fog..
    The second day I crushed 8, added dextrose and it took hours, no joke, about 6 hours, before I felt anything. They seem to work with the dextrose. I’m worried about having to keep upping the dose. You get 800 pills in a bottle, but by the time you use multiple during the day, it’s really not that cost effective.
    Their customer service has been great, from sending me the ingredients, to now saying I can send both bottles back for a full refund.
    I’m torn, as I do not want to go on synthetics.
    How safe, in your opinion, is it to go up on doses with this?
    Thank you for all of your help!

  59. Toni says:

    I am continuing on 3 grains of NP Thyroid, despite the new pills’ intensity of smell. I do chew the tablets before washing them down with a glass of water. Here are my recent labs:
    Free T3: range 2.3 – 4.2, result 3.8
    Free T4: range 0.8 – 1.8, result 1.4
    TSH : range 0.4 – 4.5, result 0.01

    I’d love your opinion on these, as I’m not sure what constitutes “top” and “middle” of the ranges.

    • Your frees are ok. But you should test your RT3, just in case. It needs to be in the bottom 2-3 numbers and no higher. Do you feel good?

      And how long before these labs did you take your meds?

      • Toni says:

        I’ll get my RT3 tested. I had it tested several years ago, and I was surprised at how low it was, but a more recent test would be better.

        I feel fine, however I am gaining weight with no real explanation. I had recently lost some weight, and I’m suspecting I was taking some of the 115% NP Thyroid. I did call my pharmacy, Express Scripts, to check that, and they said that they never received any of the recalled batches so I needn’t worry. But who knows? Maybe Acella didn’t catch ALL the “extra T3” batches.

        I dose with NP Thyroid once per day in the morning, half an hour after taking my adrenals, but that day I waited until after the test to take either. So my last dose of NP Thyroid was 25 or 26 hours before this test.

  60. Suz says:

    I’ve also run the gamut of NDTs and compounded thyroid and am now throwing in the towel and switching to Synthroid and Cytomel. Do you know if the generic Cytomel is as good as the name brand? I know the generic T4 isn’t as stable as the name brand but don’t know if the same is true for T3.

  61. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Does anyone know why porcine powder isnt working? Aren’t NDT companies worried as patients will stop buying?

    • No, we don’t know why. The common thread for those not working seems to be getting their powder from “Europe.” Why aren’t they worried? Stupidity?? Heads in the sand?

      • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

        So Janie if European porcine powder is a problem as is Chinese. Is there any that is actually working. I know you said Armour is working and it did brilliantly last year but it isn’t working for me currently even though I am adding T3. W.P hasn’t worked either and I have tried both Thyrogold and Metavive with no positive results. Weight has ballooned over two stone despite eating very little. Endo said adrenals are fine. Im back on Levo and don’t know what else to do? Any suggestions?

  62. Susan Hall says:

    I switched to the Synthroid/Cytomel combination of 150 MCG Synthroid and 15 MCG Cytomel taken 3 times a day @ 5 MCG each. RT3 is thru the roof at 32.5 ng/dL

    Labs:
    Free T4 1.79 ng/dL on a scale of .82-1.77
    Free T3 3.5 pg/mL on a scale of 2-4.4
    TSH .006 on a scale of .45-4.5
    RT3 32.5 ng/dL on a scale of 9.2-24.1

    Iron Labs
    Iron Bind. Cap (TIBC) 289 ug/dL on a scale of 250-450
    UIBC 183 ug/dL on a scale of 118-369
    Iron 106 ug/dL on a scale of 27-139
    Iron Saturation 37% on a scale of 15-55
    Ferritin, Serum 137 ng/mL on a scale of 15-150

    Vitamin D seems low at 48.4 ng/mL on a scale of 30-100.
    Vitamin B12 is 720 pg/mL on a scale of 232-1245.
    Vitamin A is 48.9 ug/dL on a scale of 22-69.5
    Vitamin C is 1.8 mg/dL on a scale of .4-2.0

    I’m getting ready to make a telemedicine appointment with my doctor but I’m not sure how to proceed. Would it be useful to ask to go on T3 only? If I go on T3 Cytomel only would 3 grains be about right? What about lowering the Synthroid to 100 MCG or 1 grain and continuing the 15 MCG of Cytomel?

    I was on NP Thyroid 3.5 grains until it went south.

    Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

  63. Tracy Scott says:

    I am waiting on my first order of Tru Thyroid it will come as a powder, but information on the site I order from says that Thyroid S is being produced again and they are shipping backorders and first come first served. You can put an order in to be in line but it looks like December is the earliest. I also read they are rationing.

  64. Janet says:

    I’m currently taking 150 mg of NP Thyroid and not feeling great, actually feeling fairly ‘flat’ emotionally, losing hair, constantly trying to not gain weight even with exercise and plus restrictions, tired, achy, cold hands and feet – it’s actually ridiculous that my naturopath says it’s just part of getting older.

    My latest lab work.

    TSH .006 Ref range .450-4.50 (ulU/mL)
    Free T3 3.9 Ref range 2.0-4.4 (pg/mL)
    Free T4 1.25 Ref range 0.82-1.77 (ng/dL)
    Reverse T3 18.3. Ref range 9.2-24.1 (ng/dL)

    Iron binding (TIBC) 284 Ref range 250-450 (ug/dL)
    UIBC 154 Ref range 131-425 (ug/dL)
    Iron 130 Ref range 27-159 (ug/dL)
    Iron Saturation 46 Ref range 15-55 (%)
    Ferritin, Serum 134 Ref range 15-150 (ng/mL)

    Past testing revealed that I’m heterozygous for the MTHFR C677T and A11298C.

    I have felt worse in the past, especially when I was on Synthroid, but just don’t feel like myself right now either.

    I’m not sure what to do. Should I ask for a trial month of Armour, ask more a small increase in NP Thyroid?

    What have people experienced moving from NP to Armour?

    Thanks!

    • Hi Janet. The blog post that you are commenting on tells you what to do.

      • Janet says:

        Thank you for your response Janie and all of the work you’ve done over the years. Your website and books are what have helped me not throw in the towel.

        I’m pretty sure I need to switch to Armour, just scared to feel even worse and not be able to work, to lose more hair, and to lose my mind!

        I will be asking my naturopath for a prescription to Armour today. Do I ask for the same dose as NP Thyroid, which is NOT working well?

  65. Norma Snapp says:

    On August 29, 2018, I received an Urgent Medication Recall from Women’s International Pharmacy stating that they were currently working with Syntec Chem Corp to conduct a voluntary recall of all medications compounded with active pharmaceutical ingredient Thyroid Powder USP received from Syntec. The Pharmacy solicited me to take compounded thyroid which consisted of only thyroid powder and olive oil. Previous to this time the Pharmacy had filled my scripts with Armour Thyroid. The Urgent Drug Recall distributed by Syntec was a product of Sichuan Friendly Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd (China). The recall was initiated by the FDA and my notice included this paragraph: “This recall has been initiated because FDA laboratory testing confirmed the Thyroid Powder has inconsistent levels of the active ingredients–leothyroxine and liothyronine. Use of this powder to manufacture or compound drugs for patients use could result in over or under treatment of hypothyroidism which could result in permanent or life-threatening adverse health consequences.” Syntec siad they shipped the affected lots, 200kgs each, around Sept 5 & Oct 15, 2017 for your export to USA. It is my understanding the recall was for all entities, retail and other, using thyroid powder to manufacture natural thyroid medication.
    My search for the factory produced much earlier notices in Europe. ALSO, PRIOR TO RECEIVING THIS RECALL, I was diagnosed with a fatal fish bacteria in my gut that caused systems such as fecal incontinence . This bacteria is usually only found in humans in Japan and other countries that eat larger quantities of raw fish. There was an unconfirmed conclusion that I may have contracted the bacteria through the compounded thyroid medication.
    The reason I tried the compounded medication is because after the sale of Forrest Labs, I had all of the same experiences as others have listed on this website. I called the new owner of Armour Thyroid to find out why the size of the pills seemed smaller and much denser. I was told that sometimes adjustments of the equipment can cause this and that it was possible to have the pills so dense that they pass through the gastrointestinal system without being digested. I was also given the other ingredients, i.e., chalk, etc.) I would add that the price for three months of thyroid medication went from under $50 before the sale to over $150 for the same supply. I have since wondered if there are many manufacturers of Armour Thyroid and thus no consistent oversight of manufacturing processes. I have no proof that this could be true.

    • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

      This is indeed very interesting especially as most of the bigger Pharma companies source thrir porcone products from China. Sadly, with such a poor record of hygiene standards that serm applicable in China, this could have been expected. Perhaps that is why so many of us who have tried a variety of different NDT recently, that once worked so well ate struggling. I, like many, have tried the once superb W.P, Naturethroid and the gold standard Armour with a very real return of hyp symptoms including rapid weight gain on all of them.

  66. Kristina says:

    Hi! In the same boat as everyone else. Janie, your work has literally saved my life… Thank you! Can someone please email me to tell me where/how I can purchase Thyroid-S?
    My email address is kmtspintosoprano@gmail.com

    Thank you!

  67. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Hi all. Im still searching for a working NDT as I wasted money on the sadly, now usess W.P, followed by the once gold standard Armour that isn’t working either. I have tried Metavive without success and am thinking of trying either Thyreogland from Germany or Tru Thiroyd from Thailand. Has anyone had experience of these please. I tried Thiroid from Thailand and found them ok for alleviating symptoms but the fillers gave me crippling insomnia. Im not sure how far we are along from being able to take legal action against NDT pharmecutical companies as clearly we know something has changed despite their claims to the contrary?

    • Armour still works if you get those free T3 and free T4 optimal. I think we established before that you are frees were not optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

    • Lilith says:

      I’ve alternated between Thiroyd and Thyroid-S for several years, with more success on Thiroyd, but both worked fairly well for me. I had placed an order for Thyroid-S in March. In April, after asking for an update on the order, they informed me that there was a delay and offered to send me an interim “sample” of Tru-Thyroid and would send my order of Thyroid-S when it came in. I agreed and told them I would be fine with replacing the entire order with the Tru-Thyroid (it’s actually cheaper). They never actually confirmed what they were sending out. I finally received the sample a couple of weeks ago (four months later), then sent a message asking for the tracking information for the original order, since they now have Thyroid-S in stock. I mainly wanted to know how I need to ration out what I have before the other arrived.

      They haven’t responded. So now I’m kind of stuck in a situation. I rationed out my last order to the point that I had no medication at all for about a month. I’m now rationing out a small sample, and I have no idea if the original order is even on its way. Given the length of time orders are currently taking due to the COVID shipping issues, I feel like I need to place another order as soon as possible. But I’m afraid of placing another order because they are now not responsive, and I’m worried I’ll be paying for another order that won’t arrive.

      As far as I know, there is only one source for the Thailand products. I’m thinking I need to return to the doctor and get back on synthetics again, as it’s mildly better than being completely without.

      • Dawn says:

        Hi Lilith,
        What did you think of the Tru Thyroid? Did you get a good response from it? Please comment on your thoughts of taking it.
        Thanks very much.

        • Lilith says:

          It seems like it works, but I can’t exactly give an accurate answer. I’m trying to ration them, so I’m on a much lower dose. It’s definitely worth trying if you can get some. I’m just doubting what used to be a reliable source for obtaining it.

          • Dawn says:

            Thank you for your input. I’m sorry this is so hard on you, and all of us suffering just to feel well.

  68. Anna says:

    Sadly, Thiroyd was also discontinued in 2019, leaving only Thyroid-S of the Thai brands. However, there is a new Thai brand called Tru Thyroid (that´s how it´s spelled), with the same hormone content as Thiroyd, available both as a pill and as a powder. It´s so recent that I have not seen any reviews yet, but I did receive a message from the supplier back in April that it was now available. Like Thiroyd, it does not contain cellulose and less fillers than Thyroid-S.

  69. Cathy says:

    I am on 60mg of Armour and still feeling horrible. Do I have to add t3 to it or increase the Armour. Very frustrated & not functioning. I haven’t felt good in a year. Tired of not being myself & all the weight gain.

  70. Joanne says:

    Hello,

    I keep forgetting to ask this question: Do all the pharmaceutical companies out there ( nationally and globally ) know about this blog that Janie started as well as the book that she wrote. If so, this may be a good thing as they will have an insight as to what is going on across the spectrum in regards to thyroid medications and could lead them to clean up their acts.

    Anyone know if they know about STTM blog and book ?… be great if they do..!!!

    Thanks in advance for any input.

  71. Joanne says:

    Hello all,
    I would like to reach out to anyone that if there is ever a need to do research or as a result of research as to what has changed for all the thyroid meds and find it necessary to go to court or file a lawsuit let’s band together to do so per Paul’s latest blog. I could not do it alone but we need to band together and fix this. So many of us are suffering needlessly.

    We would be up against Big Pharma ” but there is strength in numbers. Something is not only amiss but worse about the integrity of all the meds from what I am reading. This has gone on long enough. However, it would take a lot of work but possibly in the end we could facilitate change and get back to the purity of the meds, etc.

    Your thoughts everyone…

  72. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    The way I see it is unless someone still had a quantity of older NDT and some of the newer versions i.e Old Np to new NP or old W.P and nrw W.P and got someone to analyze both tablets we would have concrete proof of changes which means legal action could be taken.

  73. Melissa says:

    So what DO we take? I’m searching for desiccated thyroid and adrenal brands and I’m stumped. I don’t want porcine. I want bovine and I have no idea what works and what doesn’t.

    Is there any brand to trust for dessicated organs??

  74. Joanne says:

    Hi Janie,

    How can I find out what happened to WP Thyroid as I think they have now added fillers which I am allergic to such as; cornstarch, cellulose, starch, guar gum, etc. and having celiac disease ? I am not feeling as good as I used to on it and feel that the ingredients are not as pure as they once were. They claim there are only three but something is amiss.

    How can I get the truth and how to contact the company to speak to a live person? Sad part is they just might not admit it. Something has changed !!

    Thanks for what you do.
    Regards,
    Joanne

  75. Cathy says:

    Does Armour work without adding t3? My pharmacy messed up and subbed Armour with NP thyroid. I’m trying get it changed.

    • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

      It didn’t for me unfortunately. It worked well last year but something has definately changed and I feel completely unmedicated on Armour now despite increasing the dosage and supplementing with t3

      • Paul, increased to how much?

        What was your RT3?

        What condition are your adrenals in?

        It’s usually not the Armour. It’s usually found in the three questions. Promise.

        • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

          one grain and my adrenals are fine according to my enfo whrn I asked.

          • One grain is simply a starting dose from which we are supposed to raise to find our optimal dose. So it wasn’t about Armour being bad. You were badly underdosed and that will make anyone feel bad if they hold to it. And Endo’s know squat about adrenals, we have experienced repeatedly.

      • Liz says:

        I have been on Armour for about 3 years now (was on Naturethroid for a time but discontinued and went back to Armour when it had production issues.) I have recently added T3 to my Armour 120 due to a return in my symptoms. Sadly I do not feel any better. At all. I am at loss as to what my next step is. No one deserves this diminished quality of life. I’m desperate.

  76. Toni says:

    Just a little mathematical nerdiness here for those worried about the “hyperpotent” recalled NP Thyroid. If a batch of NP Thyroid has 115% of the normal T3, that means there’s 15% more T3 than you would have expected.

    I worry that people see “115%” and think that means there’s more than double the expected amount of T3. Not so. It’s a relatively mild 15% increase. Of course, all pharmaceuticals ought to be spot on with their active ingredients, but 15% is not a huge increase. For example, the 1 grain NP Thyroid tablets contain 9mcg (micrograms) of T3. The “superpotent” recalled batches would contain 10.4mcg of T3.

    • You are very correct. And it’s what happened since Summer of 2019 until today that SHOULD have been recalled. NP Thyroid is now crap, say many, many patients.

      • Ana says:

        Yes! And the FDA allows pharmaceuticals to be between 90% and 110% of the stated active ingredients. The difference between 110% and 115% is minuscule. I think this recall is purely a PR maneuver by Acella. They’re probably trying to establish credibility with the medical community by making a show of how ethical and exacting their manufacturing standards are. This stunt is also a way to discredit the thyroid patients who’ve been reporting the very serious problems with NP Thyroid. Acella is making it look as if they’ll recall batches with some tiny variation, while not revealing what has really been wrong with NP Thyroid since last summer.

  77. Ana says:

    I’ve been noticing the comments lately about Armour and want to share my experience with it. I’ve been taking Armour since the problems with NP Thyroid started in the summer of 2019 and have been doing very well on it. My batches have all been consistent both in potency and appearance. I picked up a new prescription a week ago, and nothing has changed. The current Armour is definitely not like the versions of Armour I took off and on from 2004-2015. If I just swallow the pill with water I don’t seem to absorb much if anything. It also hasn’t worked for me sublingually. What does work is chewing it and then drinking it with a large glass of water. Maybe I’ve just been lucky and have avoided some bad batches that have been in circulation.

    • Ana says:

      Janie suggested that some of your pharmacists might have substituted NP Thyroid for Armour, and that makes sense to me. That could explain the bad batches that sound just like the bad NP Thyroid. NP Thyroid also has a big A on one side (for Acella?). If you haven’t already done this, you could compare your tablets to photos of Armour and NP Thyroid online to see which one matches yours.

      Thanks, Janie, for this great resource!

      • Dawn says:

        Hi Ana,
        I’m glad to hear Armour is working for you. It makes me hopeful that maybe there are batches that work. I did check my NP, there is an AP stamped on the one side. I’m assuming for Acella Pharmaceuticals? Is your Armour the same color as the tainted NP? Thanks for your help.

        • Ana says:

          Hi, Dawn.
          The Armour tablets I’ve been getting since last fall have all been a tan color. It’s been consistent. I just looked at my most recent batch, and they’re tan with no speckles. They look nothing like the tainted NP Thyroid. I hope Armour will work for you!

          • Dawn says:

            Thank you, Ana! That is excellent news! The Armour I picked up from my pharmacy a few weeks back is gray and speckled. No odor to it. I put it next to the bad NP I have, and they are exactly the same color. I am so glad to hear that yours don’t look like this! Continued good health to you!

          • Do know that color can vary depending on the batches of pig thyroids used.

          • Dawn says:

            Hi Janie,
            Yes, I understand that, but I cannot negate the fact that I responded exactly to the bad NP as I did to the Armour I picked up. I just hope that there are working batches of Armour out there, as I cannot take synthetics and the stress of all of this is making things worse. I know I’m not alone in this, but going through this every few years is for the birds.
            I read that Armour will be manufactured by a new company. Maybe (wishful thinking) they will produce a better, working product. Thanks for all of your help and guidance!

  78. Bella says:

    Hi,

    Does anyone know what is different about the batch when it is a bad one? I have been taking Erfa for years now and doing really well with labs in optimal ranges. Just a couple of months ago I started gaining weight- just took my labs again and at the same dose I have been at for years, my free t4, Free t3, and also reverse are all within range but at the very bottom of the range. I’ve gained about 25 lbs very rapidly! Is there any way to identify a “bad” batch?
    Thank you!

    Bella

  79. judy burns says:

    what is the link between afib and synthroid?

  80. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    Im getting rather desperate now as I spent a lot on the now useless W.P and then followed it by spending a lot on Armour which now doesn’t work either. Has anyone tried Thyreogland from Germany. If so does it work?

    • Paul, Armour works again!! You just have to get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Dawn says:

        Janie,
        I respect and admire you greatly! I have been following you for years, and have your books. I beg to differ though, Armour does not work. It is no different than the tainted NP. I literally just picked up a very expensive rx of Armour. I took one and within minutes started having the same bad reaction that I did to the recalled NP. It has to be the poisoned porcine powder. I think others that have stated they are doing well on Armour now, might have received, or had older pills that worked before this nightmare started. I don’t believe there’s a way to get optimal on Armour now. I pray everyday that something will change and we’ll all be able to enjoy life knowing that we have an NDT that works. Thank you for letting me voice this.

        • Hi Dawn. Armour has, in fact, been working great for several months via patient reports. So that is what I relay back. So it’s really not a “beg to differ” kind of thing. Has it changed as of recently, though? We aren’t getting reports yet that it has. So what you may need to do is call the pharmacy and see if they switched you to NP…which too many pharmacies do without telling you. And it’s irritating. If you confirm from them that they in fact gave you Armour and not NP, it’s then going to be a matter of getting more consistent reports of a change.

      • Paul Portlock-Smith says:

        Hi Janie thanks for the response. Initially I was put on Armour around March 2018 and it was like a magic bullet. It was superb. I felt and looked better thsn I had in years. Unfortunately the NHS in the U.K told me I could not have it on prescription sny longer and it was awfully expensive to buy. I alternated betwern awful Levo and Thiroyd from Thailand for several months with varying results but nowhere near as good as I was on Armour. As my health is important I decided to buy Armour ptivayely. This was in July 2019 and it has definately chsnged by then as my weight increased and felt generally unwell on it. I bought it again recently after trying the miserable W.P but with the same results. There is a definite change of something as despite increadsng my dose I feel very under medicated!

        • Hi Paul. Honestly, we have not gotten consistent feedback that Armour changed for people in July of 2019, nor even recently. Instead, what we saw were either 1) people being put on NP by their pharmacies and not realizing it, which has been highly irritating to switch people like that (though I know you said you buy it privately, or 2) People being underdosed and not realizing what that can do to them. Even raising while still underdosed can cause problems. The more you you raise still too-low doses, the more it’s suppressing your own feedback loop. i.e. people can be “suppressing more than replacing”. Thus they continue to feel awful.

          But I, as owner of STTM, and those who report to me, always keep an eye out as to what consistent reports are. And if I start seeing more reports as to problems, I’ll report it for sure.

    • Tenly Connor says:

      I’m having problems with Armour too. I checked the bottle and it says Forrest lab, but my TSH is usually below 1 and was over 11. My doctor prescribes a 3 month supply. I don’t know if the new batch is okay or not. My doctor increases my dose from 90 to 120. I have Hashimoto and I think I am having a flare up. Any suggestions? Some of the information on here I just don’t understand. But I thought I should chime in that Armour appears to not be working. I’ve had problems of it going up and down, but only more recently. It use to be manufactured in Dublin, but changed ownership and is now made in India.

  81. sam says:

    thank you jamie so much for this ! and everyone .
    anyone using the new bottle thyrogold or using thyrovanz have any luck?
    thyrogold used to work for me but the new bottles [ white label instead of blue ]dont work at all . gained weight low heart rate.

    found still had 1 old bottle.it worked lost 8 pounds heart rate went up
    but now bottle almost empty. will try thyrovanz but has anyone else had problems wihth the new label thyrogold . does it work if take 3 or 4 x the amount used to?gets expensive ]
    any problems or sucesses with thryovanz ?

    appreciate so much any help

    • It appears something bad has happened to Thyrogold with the amount of people who are seeing a bad return of their hypothyroid symptoms. I tried to talk to Tammy about it…but….

      With Thyrovanz, there is evidence that a certain body of users are having a high RT3 with it. Suspicion is towards cow thyroid perhaps having higher amounts of T4, or related to when the cow’s thyroid was removed–some research shows higher RT3 at certain times of the year. Just suspicions though. Others feel good on it.

      Nutrimeds is another OTC worth looking into.

      • sam says:

        thank you so much jamie .appreciate it so much.so distressing when things are changed and then dont work anymore and
        back to square one . am trying thyrovanz. ill look for nutrimned s too. thank you for talking to tammy about it i wish she would fix it .it s definitely not working since changed suppliers or label.

        if thyrovanz does cause high RT 3 si there anyway of knowing with out blood test and is it dangerous . thank you jamie so much

        • Yes, there has been some evidence that Thyrovanz has been causing high RT3, even though some will deny what has been seen. But not all are seeing it. It’s not that it’s “dangerous”. It’s just that the higher RT3 goes, the more hypo you will become, as it’s known to inhibit cellular levels of FT3.

  82. Paul Portlock-Smith says:

    As a U.K male hypothyroid sufferer I too am disgusted with way NDT users have been treated. I also think this is fraudulent as being in the U.K I paid hundreds for several months supply of W.P (which used to work brilliantly) but the latest incarnation felt like I wasn’t taking anything. When I contacted them I was told nothing had changed when clearly it had. When I contacted them again mentioning legsl action I received no reply. Sadly out of desperation I spent more money on Armour which worked terrifically well when I took it about 15 months ago but now, slmost the same results as W.P. It is now like these meds don’t have any thyroid hormone, particularly T3! To have to pay for something that isn’t working is wrong. To say that nothing has chznged is wrong. I think the FDA need to be contacted (as I have) as products are being sold without proper checks. In France when patients complained about changes in medication the French government forced the msnufacturer to change it back. We should be able to do this, or at least challenge companies. It shouldn’t be about money as when domething doesn’t work people invariably stop buying!

  83. Elizabeth says:

    [[ Janie, I just left a comment, I’m so sorry, this sentence is out of bounds and unkind:

    If I could replace with “Generic levothyroxine for a year (sometimes with T3) was pure hell and and I won’t do that again.” Thank you so much, please excuse me, E ]]

  84. Elizabeth says:

    Thanks to all for the information. I write the following as my experiences are a bit different than many are reporting. Due to the pandemic, not only did my doctor disappear, but my Canadian pharmacy was not able to refill my Erfa Thyroid. I had been doing pretty well on it for three years. My local pharmacy had 60 tablets of Armour left and I was able to find an NP to prescribe it; I had taken the old Armour before the 2009 problems and done well with it.

    Since using it, it is clear that it is somehow not working properly, and I get a low grade fever from it as well. I still have some Erfa so I was able to experiment. The Armour says Mfg: Forest and the tablet is very crumbly. I suspect that I am having some kind of sensitivity to an ingredient in the tablet.

    I tried Nature-Throid for a year in 2016 and gained a lot of weight, etc. Generic levothyroxine for a year (sometimes with T3) was pure hell and I’d rather die in a gutter than try that again. Tried NP Thyroid by Acella in 2014 and by the end of the year, was like a zombie, I may as well have taken a placebo. I had switched to it from Erfa Canada due to finances.

    Needless to say, if our thyroids are not working properly, we are susceptible to illness. Like the rest of you, I am desperate and disgusted.

  85. Paul says:

    From my own extensive research it appears there are only a couple of sources of Thyroid API left in the USA.

    One recent source is from Bioiberica (Spain) who are partnered with Bayer Animal Health and the other is Chinese (likely more than one Chinese producer that I can’t quite find out the exact names of, also see note[*]) but they’ve been severely affected by the African Swine Fever virus.

    China lost up to 60% of its hogs to ASF between 2018-2020. Since China produces about half of the world’s hogs, this drove up the price of Thyroid API and local US based suppliers have had to look for alternatives, now typically sourcing from the EU.

    The US based manufacturer, American Laboratories (ALI) was the sole US producer until some time ago (possibly around 2017?) when they ceased producing thyroid API.

    Another producer from EU is Biofac (Denmark) but they don’t seem to export any Thyroid API to the US as far as I can tell.

    * Sichuan Friendly was one of them now seemingly defunct since the FDA warning letter in 2018, or it’s likely just been cleaned up and rebranded.

    • Paul says:

      I found a couple more suppliers showing “active” filings on the USDMF.

      LABORATORIO OPOTERAPICO ARGENTINO SA (Argentina) – they only list bovine thyroid powder on their website but have many other porcine powders so they could produce and export both?
      NORDMARK ARZNEIMITTEL GMBH AND CO KG (Germany) – showing a recent filing as of May 2019 so they may be the EU supplier referenced in my previous post, since Bioiberica only announced thyroid API production late last year.

    • Subhanjan Bhattacharya says:

      Don’t think Bioiberica is partnered with Bayer Animal Health on this. This one is a human drug and there must be some other Pharmaceutical company. They’ve claimed in their press release- “The development of our new thyroid API is the direct result of collaborative partnership with a key player in the pharmaceutical market”. Who could this be? And has that “key player” launched the product already?

  86. Carmen says:

    I recently received a letter from Walgreens saying many of the doses of NP Thyroid are being recalled due to having much higher doses than the dose on the bottle, some up to 150% higher!!!
    I am beyond frustrated. I no longer know what to take. I feel as if we’ve been kicked to the gutter. And I feel defeated. I’ve tried Synthroid, Armour, Levo, Nature Thyroid and NP Thyroid. Help!!!

  87. Karen H. says:

    Just wondering if anyone experienced eczema-like rashes on the new NP Thyroid? Thanks!

    • Reports by patients reveal a lot of negative outcomes on NP thyroid.

      • Dee Lee says:

        I got what I call “rhino skin”. The first knuckles in my hand were so thick and scaley and would bunch up if flexed. I had horizontal lines in my skin up and down all my fingers. Just, very weird skin.

  88. Norma Grieve says:

    Firstly, huge thanks for all your work and this site.
    Would really appreciate your input. I have Hasihimoto’s plus Addison’s diseases and am watching my diminishing Thiroyd supply (1 grain twice daily) with alarm. So, I halved the dose and added in Metavive II (60mg porcine thyroid) which some on thyroid.uk have found helpful. All fine for about two months until, this last week, a rapid heart rate and breathlessness.
    It is difficult to be certain which disease is causing the problems as low blood pressure causes these issues but this discussion indicates low thyroid hormones causes something similar too. As I cannot visit my doctor for tests, I would be grateful for your thoughts as to how to proceed.
    Thank you SO much!!!

  89. Hilary White says:

    Well I am disgusted, as well. I was on NP, feeling great with perfect labs until a few weeks ago when I got my new bottle. Now? TSH at 10 and feel horrible. Went through the EXACT SAME THING with Armour, Naturethroid, Erfa and now NP. Got the recall letter yesterday but being hyper is not my problem, it’s whatever they did last summer catching me now.

    I just finished treatment for breast cancer. Chemo, lumpectomy, and just finished radiation a month ago and am now cancer free! Woot! Throughout, I was worried about my thyroid being stable and the medication not changing, as I’m always waiting for the other shoe to drop with the dreaded “formulation change.” I’m lucky I guess that I made it through all that until now. On the positive side, my doc put me on prescription D and now I’m up to 56. I was never much about 30 before. Yay for that.

    So now I don’t know what I’ll do. I have a bottle of Armour they gave me by mistake so maybe I’ll try that again, as Janie suggests. Or I may just go with the synthetic T4/T3 combo.

    A friend told me Wagner Jones in Fresno is seeking clients affected by the recall. My lot number supposedly was not affected – but I may call them anyway. I’d really like to hurt all these companies in the wallet for hurting all of us over and over and over.

    • Yup, that’s NP for you. And it appears that like you, people who’ve been feeling well on NP have been receiving the old, good stock. So once they pick up the new stock, it’s all downhill.

      • Cathryn says:

        I just checked on your website today and the last time I checked your site was a year ago. I’m on the NP Thyroid and I was wondering why I’ve been gaining weight back and feeling sluggish and having tons if bloating and my hair falling out the past months so I thought I’d better check and sure enough I’m right after reading all what is going on. What I find strange is I looked at my pills and it says 331 on them, and going by the pictures that you have posted I saw 228 and 330….so I wonder why mine says 331? Would you happen to know why? I just know now that I need to do something and quickly because I dont want to gain back the 20 pounds that I lost. Which I have like 60 pounds to go, and I dont want to start going back up again…I’m 60 years old and I’ve tried synthroid (which I was on for about 20 years and was sicker then a dog like most others) I’ve tried Armour, Naturthyroid and WP Thyroid….so I’m hesitant to try Armour again. If I go to the synthetic t4 and t3, what are the names of them? I heard the names Tirosent and Cytomel…but not sure what they are, can you elaborate more on what are good synthetic brands to take?

  90. Lindsey says:

    I am on 90 mg NP thyroid my
    FT3 2.6 (2 – 4.4)
    FT4 1.13 (0.82-1.77)
    RT3 15.6 (9.2 – 24.1)
    I am sub optimal on T3 from what I understand and am having some hypo symptoms. My rt3 ratio is 16 (and should be over 20?) I have 5 mg tabs of T3 would it be recommended to add some t3 4 hours after I take the NP thyroid? Should I ask my dr to switch me to armour- which my insurance doesn’t pay for I believe ?) thanks for your help – trying to feel better and navigate all of this ! It’s tough to get in to the dr during these weird times as well.

  91. sar m says:

    can anyone recommend good doctor in houston who are not looking at tsh and labs values rather than symptoms and are not afraid to increase dosage ? have been searching

  92. Michaeline says:

    I am taking a compound NDT from Care First Specialty Pharmacy. I am optimal and have been since November.

  93. Jeanne Crockett says:

    Do you know where the “American” NDTs are actually manufactured? If you’ve read a book called “Bottle of Lies” about drug manufacturing in India, it might explain some of the problems. I tried to determine where the NatureThroid was manufactured but got lost in the maze. I’m doing fine on Thyroid-S but worry about the supply line. Any interest in manufacturing our own? I’d be up for that.
    Thanks for all you do. It had changed my life, and I know my mother was severely hypothyroid her entire life. She took a thyroid pill ONCE; it made her feel terrible so she refused to consider anything else ever again.

    • Lori says:

      Jeanne, I’m also doing good on Thyroid-s but am now worried as it’s not available anywhere after searching for days now. Do you or anyone know where it might be available? Thank you!

  94. Shona says:

    Hi Janie,
    Do you know if there are people on the STTM forum who are interested in and may have the knowledge to help us fugure out how or even if it is possible for us to manufacture our own NDT? If you think there are enough people interested or willing to contribute their time and knowledge, would you be willing to sponor some kind of group? Or maybe there already is a group of this kind that I’m not aware of…if so please let me know…I have written some business plans in the past and I know something about raising hogs…
    If anyone here agrees with me, please chime in….
    Because Big Pharma is the richest most powerful lobbyist in Washington and also has its hands in the pockets of the FDA any dreams of getting congress to listen to our pleas or getting anyone in our Government to listen are futile and a waste of time and effort. If you are skeptical about this like I was, I encourage you to do some research.
    Therefore, I think if we desire safe and optimal medication to treat our disease we need to organize and act…as individual voices we are ignored, but together, I believe we have the power to make affordable NDT available to anyone who needs it. AT LEAST I THINK IT’S WORTH INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITIES…
    I am grateful Janie for all you do for us….you have helped countless thyroid disease patients

  95. Joanne says:

    Hello everyone,

    I was wondering if mild to at times severe swelling of the ankles and top of foot could be related to insufficient amounts or levels in WP Thyroid. I take 65 mg 2x / day. I am playing detective to find out if it is cardiac related or something else. It is primarily the left foot. Swelling and puffiness around the ankle on both sides and top of the foot. It also could be the barometric pressure as I watch it like a hawk. Once it dips below 30.0 I find the swelling to start as well as feeling it in both knees which are bone on bone. Ugh…. I have a feeling it is a combination of several issues. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions or ideas….

    • wP Thyroid doesn’t work well anymore. So no telling what role it could be playing in what you are describing. You might try moving to Armour as this blog post explains.

      • Joanne says:

        Hi Janie,

        Thanks for responding concerning the swollen left foot and ankle. Update: been diagnosed with lymphedema.You suggested switching to Armour. Having celiac disease doesn’t Armour have fillers such as; cornstarch, wheat, cellulose, starches, etc.?
        Thanks for your response.

    • Charlotte Boyett says:

      I am currently on 2 grains of WP + T3. My labs consistently show less than normal range of FT4. My symptoms are sore stiff feet right out of bed, muscle/joint aches, along with the typical inability to lose weight even on upper range of T3. I just asked my Dr. to switch to Armour.

      • Hi. Do you mean a less than normal lab result within the provided range? Come back here and post your free T4, free T3 and RT3 with ranges. But switching to Armour may be better anyway. We’ve seen a lot of folks on WP who just aren’t doing as well as they used to. BUT get very familiar with the wisdom on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal It’s your goal on any thyroid meds with T3 in the treatment.

      • Lisa D says:

        Hi Janie
        Thanks for your time and effort in the fight against thyroid disease, you have definitely helped me feel better and to understand the complexity of my Hashimotos.
        I am about to change to Metavive II, my year’s supply of Thiroyd from Thailand is almost out but has served me well. I ordered more of that but it made me feel awful. I am slightly worried about switching to Metavive but know I have no other choice. I have been taking 1 and half to 2 grains of Thiroyd quite comfortably for ages. Do you know what equivalent dosage I should take on this Metavive please?
        Thanks in advance
        Lisa

    • Jan Harris says:

      The first thing I noticed when NP Thyroid went “south,” was swelling of the legs, ankles, and feet. Also noticed milder swelling when on the “new” Nature-Throid.

  96. Annomaly says:

    If you haven’t see this, I received this email last week from Acella, the manufacturer of NP Thyroid. As you read this, you may be as shocked as I was to learn that the amount of active ingredient in your medication may NOT be what is listed on your prescription bottle. Its no wonder that our doctors have such difficulty determining the proper dosage of medication, let alone why we may feel completely different on the same medication when we get a refill!

    Some pharmacies list the LOT number of the pharmacy bottle on the label of your prescription bottle, others don’t. To find out you have to do a lot of wrangling to get the LOT from their computer systems (they must keep track of it)

    From now on I am going to make an effort to keep a list of these LOT numbers so that I can include it with the blood work result tracking that I do. Its not all in our heads, its what’s (not) in our meds!

    Stay well –
    A

    FROM ACELLA

    As a valued member of our NP Thyroid® community, there is nothing more important to us than your health and safety. That is why we wanted to make sure you heard from us about a voluntarily recall of specific lot numbers of NP
    Thyroid® bottles produced in 2018 and early 2019 that may contain a percentage of T3 above the amount listed on the label. While we expect that most of the recalled product has been used, we are working closely with our distributors to ensure that if there is any affected NP Thyroid® on pharmacy shelves or with consumers, it is recalled and returned to us.

    The affected lots had levels of Liothyronine (T3) of up to 115.0% of the amount listed on the labels, which is outside of the acceptable range of 90.0 to 110.0%. The bottles affected include 30-mg, 60-mg, and 90-mg tablets from 13 batches
    that were produced in 2018 and early 2019.

    As you may be aware, in July 2019, we changed the supplier for our active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) to an FDA-inspected facility in Europe. The affected lots are not related to our current supplier; they were produced before
    we made the switch to our new supplier.

    Because of the seriousness of hypothyroidism, you should not stop taking your NP Thyroid® medication. If you are concerned that your medication may be from the affected lots, you can check the lot numbers for the 13 affected lots listed on our website. The lot or batch number may be listed on your prescription bottle. If not, you can contact your pharmacist to check the lot number on the current prescription dispensed to you.

    If your NP Thyroid® is part of the 13 recalled lots, continue to take your medication as prescribed. Do not stop your medication unless you have talked to your healthcare provider to discuss your prescription. They may recommend that
    you obtain a new refill of your prescription for NP Thyroid®. Our mission is to provide patients with high-quality and cost-effective medicine that helps you manage your hypothyroidism and associated symptoms. We continually review
    our quality assurance processes to make improvements and have expanded our quality checking team and put extra reviews in place.

    We deeply value the trust you place in us to help you manage your health. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact our team directly at recall@acellapharma.com or 1-800-541-4802.

    • NP Thyroid has sucked since early last Fall. It even started to suck last summer for some.

      • Debbie Shavitz says:

        But that makes more sense now. If there were bad batches that had more T3 in them than normal. we were actually ramping up our T3 without knowing it. And then when they switched suppliers, the T3 was dropped and we felt like our symptoms were coming back. Right?
        Debbie

        • Not in 2019. In 2019, starting in the summer, and definitely by Fall, a huge body of NP users were seeing a horrific return of hypo, besides burning down their throats, burning or nausea in their stomachs, etc. What they are describing with an excess of T3 was hardly noticed by the majority, even if a few may have.

          • Annomaly says:

            I personally have the ‘princess and the pea’ level of sensitivity when my medication isn’t balanced regardless of which value it is. I was very ill from NP Thyroid during the period of this voluntary recall and after they switched where they receive their glandulars from (I was told that they get them now from Polish Pigs not from China). I had to stop taking this medication as I discovered that I am allergic to something in the filler. I have successfully switched back to WP Thyroid and am feeling the same as I did before it was temporarily unavailable.

            Here’s the latest from Acella:

            Acella has confirmed that all recalled medication has been removed from pharmacies and all NP Thyroid in stock at pharmacies is current.

            • If you would like to send your medication back or receive a refund from NP, they have contacted with Qualanax to facilitate the returns and refunds process. (Note that you do not need to return the medication but you are welcome to do so if you want.) To contact Qualanax, please note the following:

            —- Before you call, please have the bottle of NP in front of you as well as a copy of your receipt from the pharmacy. (If you need a copy of the receipt, your pharmacy can scan and print a receipt from your current bottle when you pick up your refill).

            —- Call their Customer Service line at 888-280-2042. The CSR will guide you through the process. If you are sending back the medication, they will send you a Recall Kit.

          • Cath says:

            The email from Acella sounds a bit alarmist to me. The 90% to 110% would translate to 8.1-9.9 mcg of T3 per grain. The stated max of 115% is 10.35mcg T3 per grain. If you take 3.5 grains per day (my dose) it would only be 1.6 mcg of T3 above my expected max intake of 35.7mcg.

            Yes its higher than it should be, but in the scheme of things does anyone really notice a change of 1.6 in 35.7?

  97. Karen Bice says:

    Janie, do you have any suggestions or stories about patients who have switched to Synthroid and T3? How are they doing and what doses? I was basically on 120 NPThyroid and had to increase my dosage from 150 to 180 to feel optimal. I’m tired of it all and might consider leaving desiccated thyroid, but also afraid as I’ve been on Synthroid years ago, and it didn’t make me well. I’m seeing my doctor in 15 days and would love to know how it’s working for them.

  98. Brandy Porche says:

    Hello. I am currently on Thyrovanz and T3. Prior to that, I was taking Thyrovanz alone but still had heavy edema and palpitations. At one point I went down to 25mg Thyrovanz and still had palps. I had great test results with 150mg Thyrovanz alone but still had edema and palps. I am now on 150mg Thyrovanz and 15 mcg T3. On this dosage, my edema decreased by 70% but I still have palps. I am thinking of trying T4 and T3. Are many Hashimoto patients doing this? Any problems? What should my dosage be for each? Trying to get rid of all of the edema and palps. Thank you in advance for your help.

  99. I had switched to NP Thyroid back during the Naturethroid backlog. Now there is a recall on several dosages of NP Thyroid 30, 60 and 90 for being superpotent
    Trying to decide what i want to ask my endo for??
    Synthroid nearly killed me years ago
    Armour – I ended up with a bad batch of medication (it had all kinds of debris and specks in my tablets they were very odd looking) my mouth was burning and i tasted metal for 2 weeks occurred when it was acquired from Forest and it took me months to get well swore i would never go back but i do have family members on it now they are doing great
    Naturethroid saved me then couldn’t get it any longer so switched to NP. Seemed ok but last 2 months i have been jittery and I had a lot of lost sleep. I was prescribed an antibiotic that i had taken several times in my life with no issues felt like my heart would never slow down and i shook for several days. It was contraindicated for someone with hyperthyroidism. I have to wonder if my batch was affected i do take the 60 (1 grain). Unfortunately for me i had to stop antibiotic doc would not prescribe me anything else due to the rxn and then i got really really sick and had to go to the hospital to get correct antibiotic. Very exhausting and expensive.
    Now I find out the dosages could be off for the T3 component being too high.
    So what now? I have always taken levoxyl with my NDT contemplating going back to cytomel but I feel better on NDT however I have had 3 health scares because of them.

  100. Hi I was on 50mcg of eltroxin for about a year and a half . My dr put me up to 75mcg that’s when these horrendous symptoms started racing heart palpitations pounding heart fatigue anxiety pain sweating insomnia breathless internally tremors. Shaking then I was changed to ndt still symptomatic now on thybon still the same only more pronounced symptoms… I was told by a FM dr that I have Hashimoto’s along with hemachromatosis too. Will I ever feel like myself again. On beta blockers now but still suffering.can somebody please advise or me. I’m working my way up to 40mcg thybon. I’m taking it in quarters as my symptoms increase if I take anymore in large doses more than 5mg .

    Thank you Yvonne

  101. Patticia says:

    Hi. I am so overwhelmed right now. After at least 5 years of being undiagnosed hypothyroidism, 2 days ago a nurse practitioner finally looked at my T3 and said 2 is too low to feel good and prescribed me NP. I am SO new to this and looked it up. All I kept seeing was negative reviews. Actually all the NDTs were looking pretty bad. Except maybe Armour. Which I asked my doc to switch me to because I’m scared of the others. I was so excited to start this journey or healing and feeling normal again but now I’m scared and confused. Please can someone guide me? This whole thing seems like a rabbit hole of other problems and I dont even know where to begin. Oh and my doc is starting me off at 30mg for 2 weeks, then bump it up to 60 mg for 4 more weeks then check. Is this right?

  102. Vicki. Gattuso says:

    I tried to order Ultimate Iron By Enzymatic Therapy & it’s not available. Does anybody have any information on that product. Geez losing our good NP’s and now this!

  103. Linda Osmond says:

    Hi, Jannie. Sorry, but I have a couple more questions that I thought of after posting the previous list. So, to continue… 5) Has anyone become optimal on the OTC bovine products alone, or they always need to be complimented with an Rx of NDT or other? 6) Is rice filler a better option (in general) over micro crystalline cellulose in compounded? 7) I had Isabella Wentz (AKA the Thyroid/Hashi’s Pharmacist) tell me that the sustained-release form of compounded T3 can be problematic for those with auto-immunity. She recommended taking it more often throughout the day vs the sustained-release. I’d have to look back at why that was. Are you familiar with this issue? I do understand about the short half-life of T3, but don’t recall if that was the issue in this case or something else related. Thank you so much!!!

    • It’s odd about the bovine products, because with Thyrovanz especially there a certain body of people who see themselves with quite high rt3 as if bovine thyroid has more T4 than human thyroid, this converting the excess to rt3. Others state they feel pretty good on it. Even Nutri-meds is having happy patients. I would sure keep an eye on the free T3, free T4, and RT3 on the bovines supplements, just in case.

      I personally think that anything is better than the cellulose….

      As far as T3 and Hashimoto’s, most have done quite well with it. And we learned early on, as reported by STTM, to multi-dose it whether we have hashi’s or not. As far as slow-release, and though some seem happy with it, we have just found it better to do direct T3. The problem was slow-release T3 is that some of it can make its way to the small intestine still unreleased, and you just poop it out. It’s a theory proposed by Dr John C. Lowe…

    • Terry Kopf says:

      I tried 150 mg of Thyrogold since I was taking 120 mg NP. My TSH went up from .006 to 3.5 in 8 weeks. I was continuing to take 20-25 mcg of T3 that I took with the NP. I increased my dose of ThyroGold to 300 mg and same T3 and my TSH went up to 5.35 6 weeks later. No point in increasing the TG at that point. I went on 24 mcg Tirosint and T3at 37.5 mcg and had huge anxiety and insomnia plus headache. Dropped T3 to 20 mcg and anxiety and insomnia went away but I felt “ill” and extremely tired. My poor body just loves this bouncing around. Two days ago I started taking Tirosint around 2:30 AM and T3 at 7AM when I got up ..then the balance of 20 mcg T3 at 3 pm and everything seems to be settling down. Will do new labs in 5 weeks.

  104. Linda Osmond says:

    Hi, Janie. I don’t know what we all would do without your great information and support. Thank you! So, I turned to your site (again) when the NP changed. One pill told me that, and your site confirmed and gave further info. I’m on my last good bottle of OLD NP Thyroid and am looking to make a switch to ….possibly Armour. I have a few questions: 1) What did you personally decide to do/try after NP went awry, and how is it going? 2) Did I read correctly that another company just bought out Armour??? And do we know anything about those changes yet, particularly if there will be product changes? 3) I called my mail-order pharmacy to check on prices of Armour. It was quite strange that lower dose pill was twice the price of a higher dose one! I wonder if that could possibly reflect the current stock / mfg (lower price) and a new stock that has changed (higher price)? Any ideas? 4) I had heard about NP being subbed for Armour. I asked the pharmacist if NP was now generic for Armour, and with some checking he said it is indicated that way. What??? 5) If looking into switching from NP to compounded or synthetic, does one begin with the current T4, T3 amounts in the optional old NP tablets and go from there to optimize?

    Sorry for the list of questions, but I have an appointment on Monday to discuss this with my new or temporary doctor. Sure hope there is openness there. I appreciate you!!!

  105. Michelle says:

    I switched from NP back to Armour with high hopes, but I’m experiencing weight gain, hair falling out, and muscle aches. At least no heart palps. I’m getting labs done this week so will see what my numbers look like. I’m considering synthetics (sigh). But what I wanted to point out is that Allergan was bought by Abbvie just last week. It’s no wonder we can’t get optimal or straight answers! These pharmaceutical companies change hands like underwear! I wonder what that’ll mean for Armour. Like you’ve said, Janie, it’s all about money, not consistent patient care.

  106. Joanne says:

    Thanks, Janie. So is anyone out there that would at least begin just a conversation (early in the game) about testifying before the United States Congress in light of what is going on regarding ” Big Pharma ” and thyroid medications.
    I feel totally disregarded by them while they tamper with and manipulate the medications for the sake of big bucks and greed. I resent that I can not contact RLC labs to just ask a question. How much longer will this travisty to on? Any comments….?!

    • Here’s what I can do. I can start a blog post about this and your desire to get volunteers to speak to Congress. Even better, it can be a STTM Guest blog post I’ll put up from you. But you’re going to need to do a lot of homework first as to how it all works, and whether it will work. i.e. what kind of power has Congress taken in the past against big pharma, how to present this in the most powerful way, and anything related. This will need to be more than just our emotion and our disgust. Either you’ll need to do quite a lot of research and study yourself or find people reading this who have some experience with preparing this and can help. It will take needed homework and preparation, and Stop the Thyroid Madness will definitely support it… And that support in turn will create a huge following.

      • Joanne says:

        Hi Janie,
        Thanks for responding.

        In reading it, is there a way we can communicate privately to discuss in a little more detail what this would involve? Being relatively new to the site I wanted to inquire about that kind of communication without violating or hurting anything. I am a novice at all of this.

        Take care and thanks so much for what you do….

        • I’m not an expert on it, even though I’ve thought about it many times over the years considering how badly thyroid patients suffer due to the madness out there. I’m just extremely busy with all I do…more than people realize. So it needs others who are interested. I think you need to first just do an internet search of what it involves.

          • Joanne says:

            Ok.. will at least give it a try and research this kind of endeavor. Thanks much for your input so far.

            Joanne

      • Mary says:

        Hi Joanne,
        I was reading your interest in trying to work with Congress in improving access to quality thyroid products and am interested in helping.
        Thanks,
        Mary

    • CYNTHIA GREEN says:

      Yessss!! I would get involved. There are a lot of us who will literally die if we get any worse!

  107. Joanne says:

    Considering all of the reading that I do on this wonderful site that Janie started about this horribly disappointing issue related to thyroid medications, there must be something we can all do to mitigate this.Too much needless suffering is sad and disheartening, to say the least.

    I was wondering if in the US some of us ( when the virus is over ) could go before the Senate and testify ( like you see on TV ) when citizens ban together and plead their cases on various issues and such. Stand up to the Big Pharma and let our voices be heard. Expose what is going on. Maybe get a bill started. Our well being and our future health is at stake here. And Chris spoke of the Chinese… what is that all about ?
    Anyone weigh in as to this suggestion. Has it been done before?
    Thanks for reading and best to all of you.

    • Since I, Janie, can’t do everything, these kind of actions will always be supported by me.

    • Starr D. says:

      Hi, Joanne. I admire you for even thinking about trying to get something done like
      this, to make changes for the better for thyroid patients. It isn’t right how these
      companies get away with making changes that can really affect some patients
      badly….and this has been going on for years, with both synthetic and natural
      thyroid meds.

      I first got hit with something like this back in 1982-83, when the manufacturer
      of Synthroid at the time made changes in it without having to test the new
      version for safety & effectiveness on anyone. That’s because they said they
      left the active ingredient alone, but it was the inactive ingredients they messed
      around with–and the inactive ingredients can affect how you use and absorb
      the main, active ingredient. They also changed the assaying method used,
      too, and someone at a different pharmaceutical company told me he’d heard
      at that time Synthroid may have changed where they got their ingredients from,
      too–from the United States to elsewhere in the world, and that can make a
      difference. After I finally found out these changes happened, I called a lot of
      people to see what could be done. Finally spoke to some higher-up at the
      FDA who told me, “You need an act of Congress to get changes made–
      the FDA can’t (won’t) do anything, otherwise.” Well, I couldn’t pull this
      off by myself. The internet wasn’t big then, either, to reach out to others.
      And today’s Synthroid remains, as far as I know, the more inferior version
      than it was before 1982-83. I know the T-4 meds aren’t so popular on
      this site, and I do understand that. Old Synthroid wasn’t perfect, even for me–
      I’m just saying that pre-1982 Synthroid worked better than more recent
      versions, for at least some patients (this was written up in a Federal
      Register report in 1997 or ’98, so it isn’t just my opinion.)

      I’ve been on many different thyroid drugs since, and I’m still not well. I’ve
      been through these changes when WP and NP thyroid worked better for
      awhile, and then they didn’t. And when Levoxyl was changed in the early
      ’90s and didn’t need to be tested, etc, etc. You’re right–this entire scene is
      a big mess for all thyroid patients. I hope you can figure out a way to get
      something done about this–although I’m not well, if you’d like to talk more
      about this with me or anything, please let me know. Starr D.

  108. Chris says:

    Backstory: Hi, I’m 56, Hashi/Low T for 25+ years, male, former athlete. Armour for years, no real problems, ( even with the Armour to Erfa switch) SUDDENLY a bad ERFA batch around 2014, (the very day I took that bad batch, my eyes would move properly, just an hour after taking the pill and I became exhausted as the drug absorbed, just like taking a benadryl) ever worsening results despite trying more Erfa, then WP and NP. Switched to 75mcg T4 and 135 NDT to get labs right. Sleep a lot, instant loss of energy/stamina when active (workouts can’t be finished due to hard crash) , feel horrible. Tried 10mg prednisone and problems resolved quite well. Unfortunately docs took me off of pred. 2019 labs = T4 low/T3 high. So doc switches me to 175 synthroid. Labs OK, but I’m non functional, gaining a pound per week, can’t work, can’t think, life destroyed. The talk about pooling makes me think I had the issue on NDT, related to low cortisol. I’ve always known I don’t do well on T4 alone. Doc’s don’t listen and quite frankly, often don’t know what they are doing. We suffer due to this.

    I strongly suspect the NDT manufacturers are sourcing the desiccated thyroid from the Chinese. While the drugs test correctly for thyroid levels, the “observational results” of patient’s symptoms (mine and others) (which are valid and not anecdotal, remember anecdotal means unreliable) tell a correct story. These drugs don’t work like the old “American sourced” drugs did. I suspect some form of contaminate that is not being tested for. It’s time we start a company that makes an American thyroid product for the American market.

  109. Nonie says:

    Big Pharma got to them.

  110. Diane Valenti says:

    How long does it take after switching from NDT to T4/T3 to feel better? I am so tired of being tired.

    • You will feel better as you make your way to up optimal. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal If you have problems getting there, check your iron and cortisol: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol

      • Diane Valenti says:

        Thanks, Janie! I am excellent on iron and inflammation. But, cortisol is low. Plan to start trying Rhodiola Rosea on Sunday when it comes in. I actually felt pretty darn good on NP (about 85% normal) even with low cortisol.

        I am sooooo disappointed that it changed and that we are powerless to do anything about it. How many adverse event reports does the FDA need to receive before they step in?! These pharma companies are required by law to submit reports of adverse events to the FDA. So, the FDA knows what is going on. I just don’t understand why they don’t act.

        • Diane, if you did a saliva cortisol test and it proves low cortisol, taking rhodiola or any adaptogens has never done the job for us. Where adaptogens have helped is if the saliva cortisol pattern is a see-saw, like L, H, L, H or vice versa. And we take adaptogens at least 3 times a day for that kind of pattern. And it’s always about saliva, NOT blood.

          And feeling good on NP can be more about rising adrenaline or cortisol due to it actually not being good. So the feeling good always backfires.

          • Diane Valenti says:

            Oh… good to know. I have done all other adaptogens, glandulars, and HC. HC gave me scary high blood pressure.

            My next step is to try CT3M. Don’t think that there is anything else left that I haven’t tried. What do you think? Good idea or not? Thanks!!!

          • If HC seems connected to high blood pressure, it can really mean you weren’t using it correctly. That’s why everyone with a very low cortisol problem needs to study chapters 5 and 6 in the updated revision sttm book.

  111. Naomi Klahn says:

    I recently purchased “Tyromax” from Ideal Labs, after listening to Georgi Dinkov on the Danny Roddy YT channel. He spoke to the delitarious changes NDT, and that bovine NDT was better, and unadulterated.It’s difficult to know if the Bovine NDT is making a difference, as I also suffer from Meniere’s Disease, so medications take a while to ‘work’.
    I also purchased “Thyroid Glandular” (200mg of bovine thyroid gland per capsule) & Lugol’s iodine 2% drops (do you have information on iodine drops?)

  112. Windy says:

    Is anyone supplementing NatureThroid with Thyrovanz or other OTC supplements? Is it even a good idea?

    I am unable to get tested now due to the virus stay-at-home orders, but want to see if adding something to my current dose helps my symptoms…

    What would be a good amount to add to start?

    • Naturethroid has been so awful compared to what it used to be that people are just using an OTC and getting optimal. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Windy says:

        Thanks Janie – my last test levels of FreeT3 of 4.8 and FreeT4 of 1.31 on Naturethroid in December were OK according to my doctor, so I continued on it ( I chew my dose of 3 grains up sublingually with 2 grains in the AM and 1 in the late afternoon)..

        I also asked my doctor’s office and pharmacists if they were aware of any issues with it and they said no – all their patients have been fine so far, and no one has been switched to anything else. Really wish I could get tested now, but am self-isolating and don’t want to risk going to a lab for a blood draw right now.

        I will be going on Medicare in Sept and may need to look at switching to a t3 t4 combination then due to Medicare not covering NDT anyway. Did I hear you have a group for 60 and over people with Hashi’s like me? How can I access that group?

        • Your free T3 is pooling due to a cortisol problem if the top of the range was 4.2. And a cortisol problem is because Naturethroid is now stressing the adrenals. And pharmacists are very behind, and so many seem to make up stuff, so I’m not surprised what was said. The group is mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others

          • Windy says:

            Thanks for your quick reply Janie. I am not surprised since I have also been under a lot of stress over the last several years with caretaking of my husband, mother, and father at the end of their lives, the funerals, and as estate executor.

            How exactly is NT stressing the adrenals? What is the physiologic mechanism?

            I was taking 200 mg of adrenal cortex daily previously, then stopped, and started taking 50 mg daily again in Feb. Perhaps I should go up to 100 mg, or do you think going back to 200 mg would be better to support my adrenals and stop the pooling?

            Thank for you assistance with helping me understand how to handle this – I really appreciate it.

        • Terry Kopf says:

          I went on T4 only Tirosint and Medicare denied it. My doctor then got them to approve it but my Walgreens RX plan through AARP wanted $350 for a 90 day supply of 25 mcg Tirosint! I was able to get it for $120 for 90 days Thru one of the four pharmacies Tirosint licensed to distribute their medicine.

      • Jennifer says:

        I am also currently on the RLC Nature Throid – have been for YEARS…. I don’t have any symptoms but that being said, my recent labs show my Free T3 at 2.2pg/mL and my Reverse T3 at 10ng/dL and TSH at .10mIU/L. Unfortunately they didn’t run my T4 but my TPO is 165 which is lower than it has been. I am on 4.5mg LDN and 1.75grain of Nature Throid. The issue I have been having is low nightime HRV. In addition, recently (late Feb) I got super sick for the first time since 1998 and it was around the time I would have been ovulating and two weeks later, didn’t get a cycle and still haven’t gotten one. I was having SEVERE nights sweats for four weeks which have finally subsided so not sure if that is thyroid related or not. Not sure what do to or what it means to have Low T3 AND Low TSH. My prolactin levels are 2.2ng/mL. My ND wants me to lower my Nature Throid to 1.5 grain because I think she is looking just at my TSH which I know tends to get suppressed with NDT. I would love ANY advice here that anyone can give? I just don’t know what to do. There is a wonderful company called Ancestral Supplements that makes a natural Thyroid supplement that comes directly from the grass-fed cows and has the FULL spectrum of thyroid hormones in it. Wondering if that could be an avenue to explore instead of NDT – the problem is getting the labs due to thinking it might not be a good idea to be going to labs right now to get blood draws due to COVID. Can anyone provide some feedback? Should I go back and just get another blood draw with the T4 in it? I just would love any kind of feedback or direction – majorly struggling here 🙁

        • Normally, with a good NDT (which Naturethroid isn’t anymore), I’d tell you that are very underdosed if your FT3 is that low (you didn’t put the range, which is important. But I’m assuming it’s at the bottom?). Also, practically no one is optimal under two grains. And even at 2 grains, the majority are not optimal. This is always the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          BUT….we have noticed that Naturethroid has gone south. Practically no one is doing as well as they used to on it. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/ You’ll see alternatives if you scroll down.

          • Jennifer says:

            The range is 2.3-4.2 for Free T3 with the lab I used. So I am just below the bottom. And my doc wants me to REDUCE my Nature Throid to 1.5 grain instead of the 1.75 I have been taking as she thinks the low TSH is what might be causing my body to stay in sympathetic mode while sleeping thus causing my low HRV. Do you think I should take T3 only? I am reading the Optimal Post and learning…. I assume this Optimal applies to Hashi’s people like me too right?

          • Jennifer, any informed patients would tell you that your doctor is NOT good for you. First, Naturethroid does NOT work anymore. Second, even if it was a good NDT like Armour, you do NOT go by the TSH. You go by the frees whether Hashi’s or any non-autoimmune cause of hypo. I would personally run, run from a doctor like you are describing. But you have to decide.

          • Jennifer says:

            Janie, thank you so much for your insight… If I may ask another question?
            I just found out that my T4 is 1.1 (lab range 0.8-1.8)… (results just hadn’t come back yet and just got them)
            I was wondering now how that number plays into my low T3 and suppressed TSH? and do you recommend Armour or what do think would be the best choice for me to switch to? Wondering if T3 only might be better? I read the “OPTIMAL” page….Again, thank you SOOOO much. I am just feeling super defeated at the moment as I FINALLY thought I found a doc that “got it” – such a bummer.

          • The suppressed TSH is seen all the time if one has T3 in their treatment, even a now cruddy NDT like Naturethroid. We see low frees when we are severely hypothyroid. Yes, a lot of patients have done quite well on Armour if they truly understand what optimal means with the free T4 and free T3 (many say they are optimal, and end up not being so. Optimal puts the free T3 at the top area of the range with a midrange FT4.) Did you read the linked page? It shows all the alternatives to consider. And you’re welcome. 🙂

          • Jennifer says:

            Thank you again Janie, my goodness you are a godsend! Ok I am ordering Armour (WOW it is $$) in the 2 Grain dose. With my T3 just under the lowest end of the range and my T4 at 1.1 (which isn’t quite mid-range), do you think the Amour will help even things out? And when would you recommend I test again after starting on this dose with this new NDT? Thank you SOOOO much again.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

          • Armour definitely has been helping as long you get those frees optimal, yes. 2 grains probably won’t make your frees optimal. And yes, it’s expensive and to me, it’s ridiculous to do that to patients.

          • Lisa Ann says:

            With RLC’s WP having been unavailable for so long, I too had switched to Acela NP and was OK until their “change”. I managed to find a few bottles of the old formula to tide me over and was very excited about WP finally being available, again. I (foolishly?) quickly filled my Rx several times, since it was written last year when WP was still unavailable and is about to expire. (My very hard found “understanding” endo retired last year and I didn’t want to be caught without what works(ed) for me while I find a new doctor.
            I see no comments about the quality, or lack of quality for the newly available WP batches. Any information would be very much appreciated.

          • There are now enough patient comments that it appears WP has been negatively affected, too. it was the last one we weren’t sure about.

          • Lisa Ann says:

            I am with everyone else, here, in our gratitude for your extensive information and generosity. Thank you for the reply. I have been on 120 NP in the AM and 1/2 or 1/4 130mg WP (they are scored and easily split; less expensive for any of the meds) in the early afternoon, all doses have been taken sublingually, for years (the usual parade of ARMOUR, then ERFA, then WP, then NP, and now…??). Since I already have the WP stocked up in the freezer and am due for labs, I will try going full on WP morning and afternoon and then see where labs go on my regular dose. My GP will request whichever labs I ask for, although she has always been uncomfortable with out of the box treatment. That’s why my Lyme disease went on for 4 years before I found an integrative Lyme literate doctor. Have to do the same, again, for Hypothyroid. 🙁
            Any comments are welcome.

    • Diane Valenti says:

      I was using Thyrovanz. It seemed to work for awhile and then stopped. I think my RT3 got too high. I tested just over the range after being on Thyrovanz for a week and a half. I am waiting to see my doc, delays due to covid 19, and need to get retested. In the meantime, I tried Nutrimeds. I feel awful. I am having a difficult time just functioning. I may try Armour and then ideally get on the synthetics. I need to do something as I am self-employed. I don’t have the luxury of sleeping all day on the couch because I am so tired I feel drugged. I was doing great, best in years, on the NP Thyroid until it changed.

  113. Maureen Rizzo says:

    Hi, Janie
    And hope all enjoyed what they could of Easter this year.
    Beginning of March, endo started me on 15 mg Armour. Had to beg for this. I am 64, a good 64. My thyroid labs are in the “normal” range, but not normal, not optimal. This was my first endo visit and it took me 3 months to get the appointment.
    I think the doc is so afraid of overtreating me that she will under treat me. When I was into my third week of 15mg, I contacted the doc, via patient portal. I asked if she would increase me to 30 mg, that I still wasn’t feeling great. She said she wouldn’t change anything until I had labs done again. When I first went to endo, I took labs my pcp ordered. TSH was 2.82, Ft3 was 3.2. I wasn’t feeling great. Endo ordered more labs. Beginning of March, about 6 weeks after previous labs, TSH was 3.84, ft4 was 1.1, ft3 was 3.0 Endo said those numbers weren’t too bad, but after being like a lawyer arguing a case, she reluctantly agreed to put me on Armour. Wanted to put me synthroid or levo but I said ‘no’. Started me on the Armour 15 mg….almost nothing. As I said, third week in and I ask for an increase. Endo said more labs first. Had labs done again last week. TSH down a little at 3.48, ft4 1.1, ft3 down to 2.7. No wonder I don’t feel great!
    Endo ordered 30mg, still low, and said if I get palpitations to stop taking and call her. My next appointment isn’t until mid June. I guess with all my ranting, just wondering if anyone has tried bovine glandular, otc, and what they thought. I bought a bottle but trying Armour first, and definitely thinking I will need a higher dose of Armour. This could take awhile…..frustrating! Just fyi, reference ranges for labs….tsh (.4–4.5), ft4 (.8–1.8), ft3 (2.3–4.2). Thanks!!

  114. JanBor says:

    I always took 88 mcg of Levo but have tried Unithroid as well. My T3 levels dropped from 3.8 down the 2.6 for the past three years. I have a bottle of cytomel but the Dr wanted me to start with half a pill of cytomel which would be 2.5 mcg. That seems pretty low to move my T3 up. Anyone here start with higher than that? How long does it take once you add T3 onto T4 to see improvements. Last month I tried this and by the end of the week I’d bloated up 10 lbs and was aggravated. I’d rather be on synthetics. Any advice would be great. I just can’t seem to find an NDT that works for me and I need the T3 because I keep crashing on T4 only and my voice is so hoarse. I will say the two improvements I’ve had on NDT is I got my voice back and I haven’t been suffering from hypoglycemia.

    On 88 mcg of sythetic T4 my Free T4 levels are usually around 1.7 and Free T3 is 2.6 to 2.8. Do you think it’s okay just to add cytomel on top of what I’m already taking? Do people usually cut it down to like 50 mcg or 75 mcg and then add on T3?

    Thanks ya’ll

  115. Joanne Seward says:

    Hi Janie.
    Sent you a prior message. Sending another. What is it about the actual WP tablet as to what and how they changed them. Do they add, take away, falsify, cheapen it, etc.? Does anyone know what they actually did to them? Terribly sad to everyone who is on WP. Thanks for responding.
    Have a blessed Easter.🙏
    Joanne

    • Hi Joanne. We don’t know what changed, other than their source of porcine powder having an unknown issue. It’s the same for Naturetroid, and the same for NP Thyroid. Even Erfa in Canada changed. It’s very sad.

      • Joanne says:

        Ah ha…they specifically changed the powder. Wonder the source. Thanks much for the detail I was looking for. Too bad RLC Lab is sooo hard to deal with. Slap in the face to people with thyroid issues or who don’t have one like me. Hope your Easter was lovely.

  116. Michele says:

    Just a note to let you know that I changed from my beloved NDT of 35 years to Synthroid and Cytomel. Did that 2 weeks ago. Each day I feel more like myself and am actually pretty shocked. No testing done as my NP is out on maternity leave and I’m self-isolating, but I do feel better, and am sleeping better once again. And, per Janie’s comments, I am still able to take both synthetics sublingually and that makes me a happy camper.

  117. Joanne says:

    Hi Janie,
    Hope you are well and safe.
    In reading comments and much info on this website, you speak of how WP Thyroid changed as well. Can you tell me in what way. On 65mg 2/per day and have celiac but sneezing more. What exactly changed?
    Thanks so much.

    • At first, we weren’t sure that WP had changed like Naturethroid had. But over time, we started seeing a growing amount of comments that people weren’t doing as well on it as they used to. They reported still seeing hypothyroid symptoms. And several have been reporting high RT3…and several have been reporting pooling. i.e. we’re seeing a lot of results that pertain to an adrenal problem. And as we thought about it, we weren’t surprised. We have been guessing they’re using the same source of desiccated thyroid as naturethroid began to use.

      And of course, reporting what we’ve been seeing makes a few people angry or defiant, stating they feel fine on WP. But they don’t realize it’s only a matter of time before they crash.

      • Joanne Seward says:

        So do you think the ingredients changed, or the integrity of the ingredients. What do mean by pooling specifically?..this is such a shame for all that are on it and don’t feel as well as before including myself. Like you said it’s all about the money..
        But what changed with the tablets?.Thanks again, dear. You are a voice for sure.

  118. Michelle says:

    I’m so grateful for this website! Like many others, I have been on a thyroid roller coaster over the years. Being seriously under-medicated in 2017 led to heart disease and a nearly fatal heart attack at 43 years old. I fought my way back off of heart meds with diet and exercise and was feeling better, having found an expensive functional med doc willing to adjust my NP until optimal, only to start nose-diving again over the past several months with all of the usual hypo symptoms. But also my legs have been super tight and achy and recently my heart started pounding and/or skipping beats with periods of dizziness and shortness of breath. I’ve been scared to death until I learned of the NP changes and read that others on here are having similar problems. I’m relieved to know I’m not alone and that I can take action before I land back in the cardiac unit. I have some left-over armour that I started today in the hopes that the heart palps will stop, but I had switched from armour to NP because it stopped working so I don’t think that’s the answer. I don’t want to go back to traditional synthetics because I feel natural is usually better (though maybe not anymore?), and I’m very sensitive to the fillers. So that leaves compounding pharms or OTCs? Sadly, I couldn’t afford to continue paying the functional med doc out of pocket, so I’m with a new endo dr, and I feel like I need to go to her armed with knowledge and ready to fight for what I think I need. Or just go it on my own with one of the OTCs I’ve seen recommended on here, though I’ve never gotten labs without a dr’s order so not sure how that works. Any information from others finding success with specific pharms or OTCs would be greatly appreciated!

    • Laura says:

      I too am on NP and have heart palpitations! I started getting them last year when I was on Armour (in the Spring of 2019) and have been on a thyroid journey since. The best they’ve been alleviated was on levothyroxine, but I don’t understand why when NDT is in all the literature so much better providing the support of T3. I’m so frustrated! I did well for years on NDT and now it’s all gone down hill with the heart palpitations being the worst! I feel your pain!

  119. JT says:

    So what is left to take then???? Which thyroid med works for hashimotos??? I have celiac disease so I can’t have gluten.

  120. Joanne says:

    Hi Janie,
    Thinking of switching to Tirosint or Tirocint Sol. Do you happen to have an opinion on either?
    Thanks for your reply. You are a god send for thyroid medication issues.

  121. Michele Zeitter says:

    I have been on 90mg of Armour for a long time. Still don’t feel like myself- body aches, fatigue, etc. but my doctor wouldn’t increase my dose last time I asked. How do I find one that will? I live in Grand Rapids, MI.

    • 90 mg is so low that it’s crazy that your doctor won’t let you raise!! “Do no harm” has been thrown in the trash. They are just clueless about all this. One way: call pharmacies and ask the name of a doctor that is prescribing Armour. Keep calling. If that doesn’t work, patients are adding OTC ones with the prescription like NutriMeds or Thyrovanz. Remember to get optimal frees.

  122. Dawn says:

    Hi again Janie,
    Sorry for the multiple questions. My dr is not seeing patients now and is available only for emergencies. I have about two weeks left of my good NP left.
    Is it okay to take my 90mg NP in the morning, then take a thyroid supplement, such as GTA Forte for my evening dose instead of taking my 15 mg. NP? I searched online and could not find an answer for this. Is it okay to mix the two?
    Thank you a million times over for your guidance!!

  123. Michele says:

    I have a question for those who have changed to Synthroid and Cytomel. I finally did after much frustration. I used to take my Armour, Erfa, NP sublingually. I was looking online and it said Synthroid should be swallowed with a glass of water. Before reading that, I chewed it and mine was sweet and easy to get down….and I took the Cytomel sublingually. Can these medications be chewed or taken sublingually to avoid one more thing having to be processed by the liver? My Synthroid and Cytomel were Rx’d for me in 2017 (I saved them) and didn’t work for me back then, but with all that is happening, I hope it works now. I am on a totally different way of eating for the last 2 years, so I’m hoping it will work. Thanks.

  124. Dawn says:

    Hi Janie,
    First of all, you are a Godsend. Thank you immensely for all of your hard work and dedication. You are truly an angel here on earth.
    I am at the last weeks of my good NP. I saw previous comments about the medication from Thailand. I could not find the ingredients and would hate to order it and not be able to take it. I have Celiac Disease, Dairy/Egg allergies. Do you know where I can find the ingredients? Do I need an rx from an MD to order this? Lastly, would the porcine powder be the same that’s now infected all NDT’s?
    Thank you so much for any guidance! Be well and safe!

  125. Debra Shavitz says:

    Janie: BTW, my first comment was February 26, when the heart palpitations started. I hadn’t changed to Armour at that time

  126. Debra Shavitz says:

    Don’t know how to restart. I am 68, been on NDT since 42. Was doing fine on Nature throid. As manufacturer’s changed prescriptions, I’ve tried different ones. Still fatigued in afternoon. Last good dose was 90mg. of Armour. Over the last month, my heart palpitations are coming more frequent and longer, which is why I had tried NP thyroid and then Armour. 10 days ago, I had a cramp in my calf muscle. Darted out of bed to walk it off into bathroom. Next minute I knew my husband was walking me to be after picking me up off the floor, where I hit my right side skull really hard, but must have blacked out. I was dizzy, nauseous, vomitted, and pooped. Took 2 days of constant rest and sleeping, then another 5 to fully recover and feel less dizzy. Did vertigo excercise. Went to a cardiologist–nothing abnormal. However, I stopped all thyroid meds, and my compounded hormones, and slowly going back on vitamins. I’m still getting bouts of high racing pulse for sometimes 1/2 hour, sometimes 1 or 2 hours. Since being off of things for 10 days, and not much change, I want to start going back on, but what should I start with? Oh, BTW, I tried a couple of tests for Adrenals. I have no problem with pupil test. But I drop 10 points on Systolic BP when sitting to standing. No other symptoms. And also my temps are low and fluctuate more than .2 through out the day. Since weaning is not helping, which med should I start with first to add back on?

    • Hi. Honestly, 90 mg gets practically no one optimal. This is always where you should have been: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Thus, without being optimal, it all backfires as it has for you. But it’s going to be impossible to get optimal now because it appears you have both a cortisol problem and an aldosterone problem as a result. Either will cause you to have hyper-like symptoms as you raise.

      Read this as it’s what you will need to do now: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol

      And you’ll need to test your aldosterone to see how bad it is. Mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone

      And temp comparisons are not about each individual temp per day.

      In the meantime, you could try one grain and see how you do. If you do fine, maybe 1 1/2 grains, but no higher right now until you do the latter tests.

      • Debbie Shavitz says:

        I take blood tests and saliva tests regularly (about every 6 months). I don’t seem to have any of the listed symptoms on the aldosterone list, as well as my potassum and sodium are usually spot on. My last 4 times cortisol test showed low around 12:00 noon and early evening before dinner. So I think that can explain the drop in BP when standing. In the past I would get that feeling when the doctor tried to reduce my thyroid meds. I did the pupil test today and I don’t have problems holding the dialation.
        Seems like my thyroid meds were not getting me optimal, so is that why cortisol started getting too low. So won’t I be able to reverse that once I get optimal on the thyroid meds?

        I will start back on Armour Thyroid tomorrow am (1/2, then 1? or start right away on 1)? And should I take Pure Encapsultions Xtra Energy, which is Adaptogens (Ashwaganha, Eleuthero, Rhodiola, and Asian Ginseng) for Adrenals,which doctor gave me, or get something stronger?

        Thanks,
        Debbie

        • Hi Debbie. The pupil test helps but doesn’t always show the aldosterone problem. The only way to know is to do the aldosterone blood test. Because dropping 10 points on Systolic BP when sitting to standing is very suspicious for low aldosterone. The aldosterone page explains where we need to fall.

          You can’t get optimal on thyroid meds if you have a cortisol problem. You have to treat the cortisol and aldosterone problem in order to get optimal. Lots of years of experiences on this. Chapter 6 in the updated revision STTM book explains a lot.

          For saliva results, adaptogens only work when saliva results are like a seesaw, such as H, L, H, L or vice versa. And this needs to be based on a saliva test less than 3 months old. See chapter 6.

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            Okay, I just ordered your updated STTM book to help me. I will talk to my doctor about Aldosterone test when office is reopened. In the meantime, while waiting, should I buy some Thorne Adrenal Cortex so I am ready to start helping my adrenals?
            Today I took 1/2 60mg pill of Armour in am and another at 1:00. Thought I should start back slowly after being off 10 days?) Was on a 2 hour bike ride, no problem. After taking the second Armour, started to get a racing heart, so I put some HC cream on my forearm, and I don’t know if it was a coincidence, but the heart settled down pretty quick.
            BTW, I do take Ithyroid 6.25mg of Iodine and usually 25mg of DHEA, but I was holding that off too. Should I be taking the above?
            Thanks for all your help

          • What to do is always based on a recent saliva test.

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            Janie: Just a follow up and question. I am up to 2 each 60 mg Armour thyroid and taking some Adrenal support I had in the house along with a little hydrocortisone cream. I received a bottle of Ultra Enterprises Raw Adrenal Cortex 200mg the other day and started taking one of those and I’ll stop the hydro cream and only take one of the adrenal support herbs. So far temperatures climbing and I am not dizzy on standing up from sitting, and BP increases when I test it from sitting to standing, so I’m doing better.
            But this morning, I got a small bout of high pulse. So I was wondering, can I cut the Adrenal Cortex and take half a pill when I first get up without food, as far as you know? Because I was putting on the cream first thing in the morning. Also, I am taking some extra iodine liquid, but expect to pick up some 6.25mg Ithroid pills later today. I will take some blood tests on iron soon. And I could add some himalayan salt to my drink in the morning. I already take a lot of vitamin C, among lots of other stuff. Any other suggestions of what may cause my higher pulse that I should test?
            I am also starting to keep track of temperatures so I can see where I am at with adrenals and thyroid supplements, and I will take another 4x cortisol test, but I would like to be on it for a time and see if I have it figured out, before I have to stay off of adrenal support for two weeks before the testing.
            BTW, got your book and I’m making my way through it. Thank you, for your help. Debbie

          • Hi Debbie. It’s hard to comment without seeing your initial saliva cortisol test. This is not something we guess about. And we can’t redo saliva cortisol testing while on cortisol.

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            My last 4x cortisol was done in Nov, 2019 Results were .273 at 8am; .059 at 1pm; .068 at 5 pm; and .025 at 10pm. Ref ranges: .097-.337; .027-.106; .013-.068; and less than .034 So my 1st thing in am and 2nd were a little low. And my Cortisol Awakenng Response only raised 40%, expected should be greater than 50%. My DHEA was 11 on ref range 71-640
            I really wasn’t having much problem with light headed ness until my pulse started going high in late Feb. so I started trying different brands of NDT. Then when I fell, I stopped thyroid and my BP dropped upon standing. So I started supplementing with HC cream 1% when I got a high pulse. And then some Adrenal support. It has been better for about 4 days.

            My belief is that I need “optimal” thyroid supplementation and a little bit of adrenal support in the morning to straighten things out. Although, I have sleepiness feeling a lot of the day and especially mid afternoon and I still have to figure out where that is coming from? But the one question I had was if I could take Raw Adrenal supplement (by Ultra first thing in the morning without food), if you knew?

          • Hi. Can you repost the results in a row, one below the other, but put the ranges right next to each result please? Would make this easier to read.
            Janie

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            SORRY

            My last 4x cortisol was done in Nov, 2019 Results were:
            .273 at 8am; rr .097-.337
            .059 at 1pm; rr .027-.106
            .068 at 5 pm; rr .013-.068
            .025 at 10pm. rr less than .034
            I think in am and 2nd were a little low.
            DHEA was 11 ; rr 71-640
            And my Cortisol Awakenng Response only raised 40%, expected should be greater than 50%.

            Thanks, Debbe

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            Janie: I have been taking the last month to get lots of testing done. My main problems are fatigue (although it does not prevent my active lifestyle), just tired to get up in the morning and tired in afternoon. But mainly I have been having a racing heart, which seemed to start when my doctor reduced my NDT because of low TSH numbers, and I kept switching brands of NDT due to formulation changes. See my previous posts. Here is my new test results and some of the things I have done, but still having the above problems, although heart palpitations are less frequent. Any insights would be appreciated. Thank You, Debbie Shavitz
            date test results range 11/19 results
            4/27/2020 IRON, TOTAL 88 45-160
            IRON BINDING 288 250-450
            % SATURATION 31 16-45
            FERRITIN 44 16-288

            4/29/2020 ALDOSTERONE 11.3 normal
            (over 24 hours)

            5/15/2020 IODINE 958 52-109
            (I just realized I was taking 12.5 mg supplement for a month instead of my 6.25mg
            and also took one 4 hours before test!!)

            4/12/2020 DHEA
            (saliva) 8:00 AM 21 71-640
            CORT RATIO/10,000 45 358-2,538 Sep-19
            (on 2 1/2 grains of NDT) (on 1 grains of NDT) (1 1/2 gr)
            cort :8:15 am 0.465 .097-.337 0.273
            cort: 12:40 pm 0.133 .027-.106 0.059
            cort : 5:00 pm 0.1 .013-.068 0.068
            cort 10:30 pm 0.022 <.034 0.025

            4/12/2020 Estradiol 6.7 2.9-13.7 11.3
            (saliva) Estrone 81 36.6-253.2 54.8
            Estriol 177 <135 232
            Testosterone 140 34-183 41
            Progesterone 1050 52-850 1614
            P/E2 Ratio 157 10-106 143

            5/28/2020 TSH 0.01 .4-4.5 0.253 0.008
            T3 REVERSE 15 8.0-25.0 13 17.5
            THYROGLOBULIN AB <1 < OR= 1
            THYROID PEROX AB 1 <9
            FREE T4 1.5 .8- 1.8 0.83 1.17
            FREE T3 4.2 2.3-4.2 2.3 3.3

            5/8/2020 MTHFR MUTATION C677T HETEROZYGOUS

            5/8/2020 MICRONUTRIENTS
            selenium deficient
            serine deficient
            biotin borderline
            glutathione borderline
            oleic acid borderline
            pantothenate borderline
            vit. B3 borderline

            glutamine normal
            asparagine normal
            choline normal
            insolital normal
            manganese normal
            calcium normal
            zinc normal
            copper normal
            magnesium normal
            glucose-insulin interaction normal
            chromium normal
            cysteine normal
            coq10 normal
            alpha lipoic acid normal

            CHANGES SO FAR:
            stopped Iodine and will retest in a few months
            stopped adrenal support and extra adrenal
            will get transdermal hormones tweeked
            I added back DHEA 25mg supplementation
            And for now staying on 2 1/2 grains of thyroid
            Added 18mg of Heme Iron daily

            STILL FATIGUED DURING THE DAY AND HARD TO GET UP IN THE MORNING
            MY BIG PROBLEM WITH HEART PALPITATIONS IS MORE UNDER CONTROL
            BUT HAPPENED AGAIN YESTERDAY.

          • Hi there Debbie. Sorry what you are going through. 🙁 Honestly, it’s hard for me to get through that much info on just this blog post. Forgive me. So in the meantime, you’ll see where you have problems by comparing your results to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values

          • Debbie Shavitz says:

            Sorry, let me ask the important questions only:
            My iron numbers were in the normal range but not quite optimal, so I figured I would start by adding a little and I’ll retest in a few months. I was off for 10 days before testing.
            Adrenals and aldosterone came out fine. And all my thyroid numbers came out optimal.
            My DHEA is LOW
            My Progesterone is High
            My Selenium low
            and I found out I was taking too much iodine supplement, so numbers were huge and I just stopped it about a week ago. I still get heart palpitations ocasionally (maybe the iodine?).
            And still get sleepy during the day and rough time getting up, even though my cortisol is good.
            4/27/2020 IRON, TOTAL 88 45-160
            IRON BINDING 288 250-450
            % SATURATION 31 16-45
            FERRITIN 44 16-288
            T3 REVERSE 15 8.0-25.0
            Progesterone 1050 52-850
            DHEA(saliva) 8:00 am 21 71-640

            And this looks optimal?
            FREE T4 1.5 .8- 1.8 ( was .83 on 1 grain; 1.15 on 1 1/2 grains)
            FREE T3 4.2 2.3-4.2 ( was 2.3 on 1 grain and 3.3 on 1 1/2 grains)
            So I am assuming I should stay on the 2 1/2 grains, right?

            Hopefully I cut this down enough. Thanks for the help.
            Debbie

          • Hi Debbie. Iron results, like any results including your question about the frees at the end, have nothing to do with just falling in the normal range. You really need to take your results to this page and compare: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values It will answer your questions. 🙂

          • Debra Shavitz says:

            Janie: Since I have stopped Iodine supplementation, I have not experienced heavy heart palpitations, so we may have solved that. However, not I am very sleepy most of the day and hungrier than normal.
            Would you know if that is that a symptom of stopping Iodine and how long would excessive Iodine get out of your system, where I can test it again?

            Thanks, Debbie

  127. For the past year I’ve been getting compounded thyroid pills via a local
    Pharmacy in Arizona. Two months ago I was told no one could get the powder anymore, reason unknown. For the past few months I’ve been in nature-throid 3/4 grain. I had shoulder surgery in January and have been in physical therapy for 5 weeks. I’ve been blaming my awful symptoms on those two things. I’ve gained 25 pounds but I walk and do my pt routine daily, my ankles and hands are swollen and ache, my knees are painful, so is my hip. I have a lot more common hypo symptoms too. My daughter mentioned that there are negative reporting about NT. I’m stopping it today and contacting my NMD. Interesting, last month my neuro suggested out of the blue that I might want to consider trying a synthetic for awhile because of all the problems ndt patients are having. However, she could not prescribe. Anyway, here I am miserable. Thanks for all your personal comments. Carole

    • If you want to follow years of wisdom from thyroid patients, do not accept being put on nothing but T4. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work

      Instead, request both T4 and T3 and work to become optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Hi Janie
        I had my labs and more done by my pcp. Since naturethroid my tsh has tripled in 2 months. I do best just below 1.0. It’s now 2.30. She does labs a bit different than my NMD (he’s unavailable due to a loss) T3 total 117 and T4 8.9 (Sonora Q). In search of a reason for my edema because there was nothing in my labs, she had my hormones done. I was referred to my gyno because my labs were high. I Don’t take any hormones, have no ovaries and had my annual with an ultrasound in December. Estrogen 125.1 Progesterone 0.22 Testosterone 12. There is nothing else I take that would effect my usual non existent hormones. Are they lacing naturethroid??? And my cholesterol soared from my January labs. This drug is poison and has wrecked havoc in my body. I’m on synthroid and will be seeing my NMD in a few weeks to sort this out and get optimal. Totally disappointed AND disgusted. I found out RLC is in my own backyard, Cave Creek AZ. PS after stopping Nthroid my edema has slowly dissipated along with other awful symptoms. Proof. Thank you. Carole

  128. Rachel Hamlin says:

    Well the WP seems to give me sweats and I just don’t ‘like’ it – so I found an old bottle of NT while waiting fort his care first pharmacy everyone was talking about. Finally got the carefirst RX in the mail; thought it smelled a bit off so I broke a capsule apart, rubbed the power between my fingers and smelled….. it smells like cat urine like the new NP…
    Has anyone gotten a recent batch from this or another compounder that worked and didn’t smell like ammonia?
    Maybe I should try Armour despite all the fillers? Try one of these non RX supplements? Try this bovine?
    For background I have no thyroid, can’t metabolize synthetic hormones of nay kind, and have Mtfthr, lyme, and chronic EBV……
    And now I need to homeschool two 6 year olds……….Help….

  129. Bonnie Medd says:

    After NP went south, I switched to Tirosint-SOL (liquid synthetic T4 with zero fillers) and cytomel. Thinking that the Tirosint would be best as it had no fillers and I’m highly reactive to fillers and changes.

    Well, I began the new regimen in early November and I began to get chronic hives and angioedema shortly thereafter. For some ridiculous reason, I never put two and two together that it MIGHT be the Tirosint. I’ve been hospitalized three times because of the severe reactions, still not realizing it happened shortly after changing medication.

    I went off Tirosint last weekend (which I had gotten optimal on) and immediately felt better. However, the hives and now vertigo are back. The allergist/immunologist told me my hives were autoimmune related and I just have to wait it out until my body stops attacking itself.

    I’m on Thyrovanz now. I’m hoping and praying that once I get optimal again on Thyrovanz that these insidious chronic hives will leave me. I’ve never felt so desperate.

    Has anyone else experienced autoimmune hives and angioedema with a medication switch?

  130. Melanie and David R Schrand says:

    Hello there, I am trying to get on the thyroid and adrenal facebook page which i joined and now it is saying this content is not available right now. I tried to remedy this before as it happened to me with another facebook page. I could not do it even though I googled it. I need to be a part of this page. Any suggestions?

  131. Diane Valenti says:

    I could really use a doctor who can help me switch from NP to T3/T4. Saw my endo last week and he wanted to give me T4 only. I am also struggling with adrenal fatigue. I am below the curve on the saliva test. And, I can’t do a lot of the typical treatments because they cause high blood pressure or mimic estrogen. The latter stimulates uterine fibroid growth. Anyway, the endo dismissed adrenal fatigue as non-disease. I am currently self-treating with Thyrovanz and bovine cortisol. Looking into Dr. Wilson’s adrenal protocol. But, sure could use a doc who knows what they are doing to help me. I am totally winging it. I am in the SF Bay area. Help!

    • ST says:

      Hi there,
      fellow hypothyroid here living in Bayarea too. Recently switched from Armour thyroid ( it completely stopped working after 10+ years) to Tirosint & cytomel. Found Dr. Brandford Flagg @ john muir after endless useless endocrinologist visits.

      • Diane Valenti says:

        ST, thank you so much! I haven’t been on here in awhile because I had given up. I’ll check out Dr. Flagg!

  132. Do you know of anyone with truly no endogenous thyroid, who lives by conversion from T4 alone and has had nearly optimal success (feels normal, BP normal or low, adrenals A+, cholesterol not cause for alarm, actually feels like they’ve gone too high on T3 augmentation therapy)? Like, is that a thing that happens to some people? Do some people just convert really well? Or does everyone have crossover hyper/hypo (as one of my best friends with thyroid failure does) when they try to get optimal on tetra-only?

    I’m just curious. Don’t have thyroid dysfunction myself (though it is in the family).

    • Yes, there are some who definitely convert T4 to T3 better than others. But…their risk is high to have conversion problems in the face of an illness like the flu/bronchitis/pneumonia etc, having a physical injury, having surgery, acquiring Lyme, being exposed to mold, inflammation of any kind, being under any kind is stress, even aging. And that is not an exhaustive list.

      If that person felt hyper with T3, then lower it.

  133. Maya says:

    Hi Janie. Any advice or word on how the Ancestral Supplements brand of NDT works? It’s an absolutely amazing company, and my parents have thrived on many of their other supplements. The bovine is Grass-Fed/Finished from New Zealand, and there are absolutely no fillers added. I am carnivore and my mom is Keto, and we have sensitivities to most fillers in other brands… Especially me to plant-based fillers mostly. I saw that they mentioned your Thyroid expertise on their website as well. I’ d love to get your feedback! Thank you in advance, and God bless you for all that you do!

    • I haven’t seen too many comments from patients about it. So it may just be about trying it out, and watching your free T4 and free T3 to get them optimal. And come back here and report about it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Thank you so much! I will sure report back. On the Ancestral Supplement site, it states that each pill is 30 mg of Bovine Thyroid. It suggests starting at two pills, and then continuing to add 1 every other week until you reach 8 pills. Would you suggest continuing to rise every other week until I feel optimal or until my labs are optimal, or both? Just would love for you to clarify this for me and my mom, so that no rebound symptoms occur. This is of course, considering the best case scenario regarding the efficiency of the supplements themselves.

  134. Fay says:

    Do you think it would help to contact the FDA regarding the inferior, half working NP Thyroid medication that Acella Pharmace is now providing? I am so upset to learn that there is nowhere else to get this medication! I have similar issues to many who have made comments on your blog with a 90 day supply of NP Thyroid that I got in January that tastes like cat pee. I messaged Acella about a week ago and have heard nothing from them except an auto generic reply saying they would contact me.

  135. Susan says:

    It appears I have all the symptoms of the revised NP. For months, napping, lethargy, no interest in anything, just plain feeling so NOT myself. Other than reading all I can on your site and ordering the 2 books (just done), what is my next step? Ask my doc to change rx to Armour? Request a visit with her and ask for a deep dive into labs and see where I am now, or wait and do that after I switch thyroid (or do it now and in a month or so?)? I feel overwhelmed with all of this, and yes, I feel it answers why I have felt so lousy, but what to do now? TIA

  136. Dixie says:

    I stopped taking my Armour Thyroid, 1gr (60mg) to see how I felt and no difference that I could tell except my migraines went away. I tried taking it again and got a migraine so I stopped again and they went away. I started taking it again a couple days ago and boom, I have a migraine. I have no symptoms of thyroid issues, I feel fine. My GYN only does the basic TSH 3rd gen. test. Very frustrating.

  137. Heidi says:

    Aloha, I am new here. Does anyone here take over the counter bovine thyroid? The doctor originally put me on levothyroxine, but as soon as I started feeling better he lowered my dose until I felt junk again. So I went to a kenisiogogist who said I needed much more & put me on Pure Thyro 500, a bovine thyroid tissue, initially at 7.69 grains but after awhile I dropped down to half that at 3.85 grains. But more recently they ran out of this product & I couldn’t find it anywhere. So I drastically reduced my dosage plus skipped days just trying to stretch out what little product I had left. Of course then I crashed pretty hard, gained 10 lbs right away plus pain & aches all over, so tired etc. so now I recently found a raw thyroid complex, which has some adrenal & kelp & whatnot in it, but it only has 50 mg of actual bovine thyroid in it. The mg I was taking at the 3.85 grains works out to about 250 mg prior. So that’s way not enough. But then I found a 130 mg raw bovine thyroid and ordered it because I know there is not enough in the new complex I just got but I don’t want to double up on that because it would be doubling the other ingredients in the complex as well. So I figure I will take the complex at 50 mg thyroid, plus the 130 mg raw thyroid and that should bring me up closer to my old range, but not quite. Just wondering how anyone else on bovine is doing etc. I’m trying to figure this out & get myself better. My doctor would only give me the Levo & that didn’t help me.

  138. Jan says:

    Anyone with an opinion on Professional Health Products EcoThyro125? Says 125mg of Thyroid Tissue (Thyroid Lyophilized Concentrate; New Zealand Glands/Tissue). My functional doctor gave me when my labs indicated mild hypothyroidism. Don’t see much info about this product, Help! Thanks.

  139. David says:

    I am a 55 year old male in good health and I am seeking some advice and direction for my thyroid medication.  In March 2000 I was treated with both ABVD chemotherapy and mantle field radiation to treat Hodgkin’s Lymphoma.  In October 2000 I was declared cancer free and have remained so since, thank the Lord.  I was put on Synthroid almost immediately, having been informed that my thyroid was no longer active.  I remained on Synthroid, 88-112 mcg, switching to the generic Levothyroxine for several years due to financial constraints.  Approximately 4 years ago I was introduced to Naturethroid and worked up to a dosage of 113.75 mcg (1-3/4 grain).  This worked well for a few years, but in April of 2019 I could no longer find it in my local Las Vegas pharmacies, so I requested to go back to Synthroid, having had “good” results in the past.  This didn’t seem to work well, as the dosing of 100 mcg seemed too weak, per the lab results after about 4 months on this dosage.  I was then bumped up to 112 mcg and after 8 weeks had minimal change in my hormone levels.  I then began taking 175 mcg for 8 weeks, from Dec. 2, 2019 – Jan. 27, 2020 and although my blood test came back solid (TSH =0.08;  T4 = 1.5;  T3 = 3.8; Reverse T3 = 21), the Reverse T3 was considered high by my research.  I was on the 175 mcg for those 8 weeks, only to get a good cycle reading, but I felt absolutely horrible a few weeks after the increase.  I put on 15 pounds in the last month on 175 mcg, was extremely lethargic and fatigued, and digestion was at a snail’s pace causing extreme constipation.  Looking back, I truly was in a downward spiral after the change to Synthroid and it continually got worse with each increase in dosage, in spite of the lab results.

    My question is this, how can those latest results justify the weight gain?  Is it the Reverse T3 level, which I understand to coincide with a “starvation” status in my body? Honestly, I didn’t have the “full” understanding of the differences between synthetic T4 and the NDT medications.  I do now and I’ve been on Armour (2 grain) for 2 weeks now and feel marginally better, if at all.  My weight and digestion have remained the same and not improved at all.  I understand that it may take a couple more weeks to start to see marked improvement, but I would love to hear advice and any similar experience by anyone else.  I understand all of the NDT varieties have been altered in recent years and not for the betterment of some.  Would I be better off switching to a synthetic T3/T4 combination?

    If any other information isneeded, I will gladly provide it.  Thank you in advance for your comments and advice.

  140. Karen C says:

    What about bovine NDT? Been reading on the STTM group mod Danielle uses it. Any comment would be helpful. Thanks so much.

  141. Laura says:

    I was put on Armour in 2007, after having my left thyroid lobe and isthmus surgically removed. My right side never woke up after being shut down due to a toxic nodule that I had for 14 years so my dr put me on Armour when I didn’t do well on the synthetics. It changed my life and I felt awesome. Then summer of 2009, after the Armour reformulation, it changed for the worst. I was stuck on it as I didn’t know what else to take, then switched a few years ago to Nature-throid. Bumped up to 2 grains from 1.5, but I can’t get a dr to work with me on being “optimal.” I am going to do my own labs soon with Ulta. Wondering if I should go back to Armour after reading this. Also have to find a new dr to help me, as around here they only want to go by TSH. Ridculous! What should I be looking for, as I am not quite in the “thyroid removed” category as I still have a small part, and am not in the intact thyroid category either. Does that make a difference? Should I still be looking for high T3’s and mid range T4’s? Thanks for any insight you can provide.

  142. Fran R says:

    I couldn’t get natural thyroid anymore (just not available anymore at any local pharmacies!) even though it was a prescription! So I ordered the Thyroid-S. I’ve been taking it for about 2 months now and I just feel so much better! More energy to do things.. to WANT to do things! So far I’m impressed even though there are fillers. It appears to be working much better than the natural thyroid I was on before and of course, much much better than the synthroid which appeared to do nothing.

  143. John says:

    Thank you for this, I do not feel so alone now. I’ve been on various NDT for a few years now, currently on 90 mg of NP Thyroid. And I have been draggin’ my wagon man. Most days, I need to take a hard nap (1 hr or more) I just crash. I never feel good anymore. I really hate the idea of going back to the synthetics, when I was first put on them, it was horrible. But it might be time to reconsider.

  144. Michele Minaker says:

    Janie – you are so brave!! I give you credit for ALL that you have done, and what we will do now moving forward. I read these stories and add my own – my thyroid took a hardcore dive after a bike accident and I was out of sorts (you can’t think when you’re in that state!) THANK GOD I found STTM and help … couldn’t get off the ground with NP, my endo CUT my dose too!! Shocking … but I found my way out using thai doses. However, the shortage there is 99% .,… there are hardly any bottles available!! I think it’s time to pool our resources, we need a STTM organic Pork farm coupled with a nearby pharmaceutical processor who can make OUR OWN STTM MEDS! Am I dreaming? 🙂

  145. Karen H says:

    It looks like RLC has been releasing more strengths of WP and Naturethroid. Is it possible that they are finally getting their act together? Is anyone on this forum doing well on either of them? It would be great to have a rough idea of how many total users of Naturethroid there are and how many people are doing well on it. I suspect our forum is relatively small with respect to the total number of people out there with thyroid problems. It would be helpful to be able to apply some sort of statistical analysis to how many people are doing well (optimally) on any given NDT product so we’d have a better idea of the numbers. Otherwise, we are just dismissed by mainstream medicine as “not grounded in research.”

    I have been on all the NDT’s over the last 35 years and am once again back where I started with Armour. My labs stayed optimal with NP, but I didn’t feel great on it and also didn’t like the fact that Acella wouldn’t disclose where in Europe they were getting their raw materials. I am doing fine on the Armour, but not as well as on the original Armour before the changes.

    • So far, no one has gotten optimal. And those who say they are doing well don’t have labs to prove it. So they eventually crash. We’re seeing more people admit they finally crashed even after saying they were doing well.

      • Debbie Shavitz says:

        Since I am going to the doctor I’m sure she will write a prescription for any brand I ask for and I am due for a refill. So I had wanted to know which one was the best shot for a good NDT? Is Thyro gold regulated better than all the rest at this point to make a good alternative?
        Also, do you have any insights to why I would get rapid heart beats at times? Do you think it has something to do with the poor quality of NP Thyroid?

        • Right now, it’s proven by patients that armour is the only one left that can get most people optimal. Thyroid-S can, too. Some compounded NDT can, too, in the US. Others have had problems.

          Australian NDT which is compounded also still seems fine.

          • Jenn B says:

            I am pregnant and my thyroid care switched to my OB office as a result. They have zero clue and at every appointment they tell me they want me on synthroid. My labs have been good on NP for years at 60mg 2x/day for 5 days then 1x/day for 2 days. At 8 weeks pregnant my TSH was at 3.74 and Free T4 at .67 so they raised me to 60 mg 2x/day every day. I told them I know my body, that won’t be enough to drop it. Just redid my labs and Low and behold, at 14 weeks my TSH was 4.94 and Free T4 at .67. I ask for Free and Reverse T3 and they act like I’m a madman. I’m at my wit’s end, I know they’ll mismanage me again and continue not listening, but this is the best birthing center within a reasonable driving distance from my home. I know they’ll be calling me tomorrow to tell me my labs are off again but have no clue how to handle them anymore since they don’t listen and only believe in synthroid. I’m so concerned this is affecting my baby’s brain development.

          • That sounds horrible that it’s the best birthing center, yet it sounds like they will keep you sick with hypo.

        • Lori says:

          I am on Armour again after trying Nature and NP. Armour is not the same Armour of years ago. I want to switch to something else but all the NDT’S are not good anymore. I wish these NDT companies would get their act together.

  146. Debbie Shavitz says:

    I had been on Nature Throid for years and doing fine. Then I started feeling sleepy late afternoons, so I figured I should try something different. My doctor also freaked about my low TSH, so she wanted me to go down from 120 mg to 90mg, then tried 60mg. It was obvious that my afternoon fatigue started earlier and I was getting racing heartbeat at times. So I went back to 90. Over the last summer or so I switched to NP Thyroid to see if that would be better. My most recent batch, I am extremely sleepy in the mid mornng/afternoon. And yesterday I got rapid heartbeat in the late afternoon/evening and just don’t feel right in the head. My most recent labs should low end of Free T3 and Free T4 (but that was on the 60mg). Also my cortisol levels are lower than optimal mid morning and afternoon. Where should I go from here?
    Thanks for any insight you can give me. I’m seeing my doctor soon and she’s pretty open.
    Debbie

    Also, does any of those diet programs help to totally regulate your adrenals and thyroid so you can get off of the meds all together?

  147. Victoria N. says:

    My husband is 60 and has care through the VA. They only test TSH. His was higher than I’d like (but within their wide range). I used Ulta Labs to get his Free T3 and Free T4 tested. They were in range. Maybe not optimal, but not the bottom either, so no doctor is going to touch him while those numbers are where they are. I now think something else is going on with him and not thyroid related.

    I take NP Thyroid (150mg) and levothyroxine (100mcg). The Vitamin C supplementation is working too well and my Free T4 is now the tip top of the range, so I think I’ll cut my levo in half, then retest and see if that comes down at all. The doc won’t raise my NP Thyroid dose so I’m forced to take it with Vitamin C to increase the absorption. It does work! At least my doc is okay with me taking NDT and not freaked out by my non-existant TSH.

  148. CC says:

    Hi Janie,

    Thank you for everything you do! I was on NP Thyroid for most of 2019 until I noticed a rancid smell and started getting itchy and anxious. My numbers were deemed “good” by my doctor (TSH = .165, T4 = 1.02, T3 = 2.8, Reverse T3 = 14.4). Though my numbers were OK, I got fed up by the effects and I switched to a compounded synthetic version of T3/T4 made by my local compounding pharmacy in North Carolina. They had never compounded my dose before, which gave me a little pause. My TSH shot up to 60.87 in January. I’m now on a higher dose of compounded synthetic T3 (20mcg) and T4 (175 mcg) from the same compounding pharmacy. I got my blood drawn Friday and my TSH = 5.99, Free T4 = 1.14, Free T3 = 2.6 and still waiting on the Reverse T3 results. It’s been 5 weeks on this dose. While on both the NP and the synthetic compounded thyroid, I experienced huge hair loss and volume, severe constipation, weight gain, fatigue, brain fog/short-term memory loss. I’m celiac, so that also affects what thyroid hormone I take. Can you offer me any suggestions? Right now I feel like Goldilocks with all the thyroid hormones. Nothing seems to be just right. In the past 17 years, I have tried Tirosint, Synthroid, Levoxyl, Armour, Cytomel, generics. I’m not sure if I should look at better compounding pharmacies out of state for synthetic drugs or try to hunt down the only remaining good porcine powder providers. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Sincerely, CC

  149. Ellen says:

    Hi Janie,
    I’m on 180mg (3 grains) of Armour which I take every morning. Lab results show mid range t3 (3.4) and mid range t4 (1.1). To get to optimal i would need to raise my t3? How much should I ask for my dr to start with? She is very freaked out by my non-existent TSH (below .01) so I am hoping to explain…but maybe if i get my t3 up, it will help. Thank you for all this excellent info!

    • Ellen, you probably need to be splitting your dose, not taking it all at once. For example, 2 grains first thing, then one grain by early afternoon. Then redo labs. If still not optimal, we raise until we are optimal.

      • Ellen says:

        Thank you! I will start that asap and redo labs after a few weeks. I so appreciate this website and all of your info. It has been tremendously helpful to me for many years!!

        • DebbieC says:

          I’m a senior citizen and disgusted that Medicare will not allow payments for “any” of the NDTs (regardless of their current efficacy or not), so my Medicare Part D is useless. My last prescription was for NP Thyroid and I was able to use GoodRX to cover some of the cost. But I decided to try Thyroid-S where I can get it at a much more reasonable price now that Medicare is screwing me on the payment.

      • Ann says:

        Hi Janie,
        Is 14 hours after taking my last dose of medication long enough time before testing my T3 and T4? Thank you! You and this website have been so very helpful.

  150. I’m 73 and have taken all the ndt only to have them all go south after changing whatever they change. Last one was NP Thyroid which was never the best for me but last fall was a nightmare with it. Didn’t realize it was the NP until this January. Switched to .50 of levothyroxine last week. I felt better almost immediately. Yesterday and today had allergic reaction, throat felt funny and today a big hive. There goes this one as well. Have to be without it for 5 days. Any advice on another synthetic that may work? I did feel great except for the allergic reaction. After NP and all the changes to the others, I do not want ndt anymore. I don’t know if I am allergic to levothyroxine, would I be allergic to another synthetic? We all hate this mess

    • Peggy, it is honestly never, ever a good switch to move to nothing but T4. Years and years of experiences prove that. We aren’t meant to live for conversion of T4 to T3 alone. There are too many obstacles in life which can prevent that conversion. A healthy thyroid also gives us some direct T3. So try BOTH T4 and T3, and work to get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      Instead of levo, try Tirosint. For T3, there is Cytomel.

      • Hadassah says:

        Hi Janie ,
        It’s very tragic what has happened to our NDT . I am a TT patient and I always say my thyroids now come from the bottle. I was wondering that Cytomel has corn starch as one of the fillers and I’m allergic to it . On your sight you mention T3 from Mayne . Is that one good too?

        • We have noticed a lot of people doing lousy on the Mayne version of T3, even if others say they are doing ok. I personally avoid the Mayne brand, just in case, with the volume of people who haven’t done well on it.

          • Judy says:

            Hi Janie

            If you don’t mind. May I ask which T 3 are you currently taking? If any

            I’m thinking of going that route But I don’t want to get cytomel. Brand. I’d rather try a generic brand. Which would be the best in your opinion

            Thank you

          • Sigma Pharm. And you have to make SURE the pharmacist gives that. They often sneakily give you another brand which is probably cheaper for them wholesale.

  151. Sarah says:

    I just found your website after feeling so sick and tired of being sick and tired. I’ve had hypothyroidism for 12 years. Started on Synthroid, then when they tried the generic, found that didn’t work, then finally asked my doctor about natural thyroid last year after reading about it online. I was on
    Synthroid 0.137mg and she put me on Nature-Throid which made me feel better so after labwork came back she wanted to increase the dosage. We tried 3/4 GR (48.75MG) 2 & 1/2 tablets every day and then I felt manic on it so I went down to 2 pills a day. I went to get my refills and the manufacturer was out after the dr prescribed Nature-Throid 113.75 MG tablet, so they put me on Nature-Throid 0.5gr (32.5mg) two pills a day and Nature-Throid 3/4gr (48.75mg) one pill a day. I feel worse so I am getting blood drawn again in a few days with a follow up next week. My Free T4 was 1.1 in August 2018 and most recently in October was 0.7 L. My Free T3 was 2.7 August 2018 and in October 2019 was 3.7. My TSH was 7.18 August 2018 and October 2019 was 0.18. I have read and reread so much and still do not know what to ask my doctor at my next appt. Now I just read NatureThroid doesn’t work for lots of people so what should I do or ask my dr at the next appt? Thank you in advance. I know this was probably TMI, I just don’t know what to do anymore.

  152. Lina says:

    I looked around and it seems that they didn’t change their formulations (ingredient and proportions of ingredients), but they all changed their source of API (the active ingredient, in this case porcine thyroid). So they’re not lying when they say they didn’t change their formulations… But they changed the source of the main ingredient.

    NP changed from US-grown and made API to European. They say it is guaranteed that none of the API comes from China.

    But my thought is, that something is going wrong in the chain from slaughter to dessication. Maybe it’s being dried in too hot temperatures, destroying the hormones? Maybe it’s not being ground in the same ways (hence the specks). Etc etc.

    And here in EU, use of NDT is heavily discouraged. It doesn’t seem like the best place to source the API.

    We’re just gonna have to raise our own pigs…

    • Excellent info, Lina.

      The suspicious problem is a change in some fillers or change of source of fillers. But the source of porcine powder seems clearly messed up when problems have been happening with other brands.

  153. Emily Smith says:

    I realize that this question probably can’t be answered, but, why do you think Armour is working now for some people after its big loss of effectiveness several years ago? Could the pharmaceutical company have adjusted the formula after receiving so many bad reviews by their patients?

  154. Danielle Lehon says:

    Michaeline, thank you for the information about your compounding pharmacy. I am taking ERFA from Canada but at 4 grains still have all my symptoms and labs are high. My doctor sent a prescription to Care First today for 2.5 grains and he will increase as needed. Again, thank you. Fingers crossed!!

  155. Dana says:

    What is very concerning is that the Thyroid S, from Thailand, contains aluminum! It’s in the dyes. I know we get aluminum from many sources, but this aluminum would be directed towards the thyroid. Aluminum is not good for the thyroid.

    • Amy says:

      It’s probably a minute/insignificant amount of aluminum, no? Maybe Janie or someone else who knows can chime in. Hoping it’s safe to ingest, as I’m about to receive mine this week..

      • Yes, it’s minute. Just make sure you don’t have a methylation problem like MTHFR or other reasons.

      • blan says:

        oila janie je me permet de vous écrire je suit français et jai prix depuis prés de 7ans de la thyroïde S de Thaïlande et depuis quelque moi j’ai vue revenir des symptôme de hyperthyroïdie et de hypothyroïdie ainsi que de grosse insomnie avec un problème de surrénale qui travaille toute la journée avec le corp brulant et qui se calme le soir mais qui me réveille la nuit ou je d’or QUE deux heure je voulait vous signaler un retour ver hypothyroïdie et une modification du certaine de la formule du fabricant du médicament de la thyroide s merci de me répondre il ni a pas de forum en France et voudrait savoir comment communique avec des gent qui prenne se médicament pour voir si il on signaler JE c est pa comment vous le dire mais il on changer eu aussi comme les autre marque le gou et plus fort sa doit venir dune mauvaise qualiter de poudre de thyroïde moi je net plus de thyroïde et je suit très sensible a sa cela a commencer sur des lot qui expire en 2021 ET EN 2022 JUSQUAT PRESSANT IL ni avait pas de problème l’an dernier je vous lavait signalait quart javais essailler cest nouveaux lot et comme il me rester des ancien lot je lai et repris plus insomnie plus de depretion plus axieter quatre foi de vtt par semaine tout aller bien a quel médicament maintenant se fier jai tout perdu a causse de tout cest laboratoire qui change et nous tu petit a petit ver ou me retourner maintenant pour retrouver un bon médicament je vous remerci je vous demande de voir sur dautre forum quar vous dite que la thyroid s de Thaïlande et encorre au top vous vous tromper merci de me répondre je vais vous faire parvenir les numero de lot

        • Salut. Désolé que cela vous arrive. Ce n’est peut-être pas parce que Thyroid-S est maintenant de moins bonne qualité. Vous vous êtes peut-être sous-dosé pendant tout ce temps, donc les glandes surrénales sont stressées en essayant de continuer. Beaucoup de gens font cette erreur – s’arrêter à un niveau de NDT comme Thyroid-S ou même T4 / T3 parce qu’ils “se sentent bien”, mais leurs T4 et T3 gratuits ne sont pas optimaux. Il est très important d’obtenir ces valeurs optimales dans les plages pour arrêter cela. Optimal place le T4 gratuit autour des médiums, mais plus important encore, place le T3 gratuit en haut de la gamme.

          Soit dit en passant, ce groupe européen a un modérateur qui parle français. Elle vit ici. https://groups.io/g/NTHEurope/topics

  156. Zina Alien says:

    Hello!

    May I, please, ask you about some product? What do you think about it?
    The product I am interested in is this one:

    https://www.vitacost.com/natural-sources-raw-thyroid-90-capsules

    Do you think it can cause problems not related to inaccurate dosage?

    I would be very thankful for your help.

    Best regards,

    Zina

    • Understand that as you raise a product like this to find your optimal amount, you would be raising the other ingredients: Adrenal Tissue, Pituitary Tissue, Thymus Tissue, Spleen Tissue, Malto-dextrin (corn-derivative, American Ginseng) May not be a good idea…..

    • Jim Ogilvy says:

      I tried Raw Thyroid from Vitacost last October after reading an article about it. After a week on it, I ordered another two bottles, just because that’s when my S.S. check came in. I went downhill and kept adding more capsules each day and still went downhill more. After 3 weeks of that, I went back to taking Thyrovanz which I highly recommend. My 2nd order had come in and I wrote to Vitacost for a refund and offered to return the 2 bottles I had just received un-opened. They credited me back for it and didn’t want the 2 bottles returned. They are still in the freezer. I do not recommend Raw Thyroid. Please be careful.

  157. Nicole says:

    My labs are so-so, definitely not optimal on NP and I finally got the cat pee tasting pills from my latest refill which make me want to gag. My main symptoms are serious brain fog and plantar fasciitis since August, and probably other things I’m not even aware of that are related. I’m fed up and tomorrow I will start a compounded NDT. I asked a lot of questions and probably annoyed the pharmacy way too much, but the info I received was that they still have 2018 PCCA porcine API and they used microcrystalline cellulose as my filler since I requested immediate release. I asked for acidophilus or brown rice instead but they didn’t have it in stock and I’m not willing to wait another day to start. The 30 day scrip cost me $55 versus the $10 I usually pay. I would save a little more if I got a 90 day supply. Wish me luck. I’m nervous to try this and so tired of feeling like crap 🙁

    • Microcrystalline cellulose will bind some of the thyroid hormones, and is used to slow release it, too which doesn’t work well for many. But you could definitely try….

      • Peggy says:

        Having T3 and T4 compounding and they are using Hypromellose, short for hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) which functions as a controlled release agent to delay the release of a medicinal compound into the digestive tract. This is was not ‘optional’ but the additional filler is somewhat optional and I am getting ginger.

    • James Mitchell says:

      Nicole-

      Can you tell me who your compounding pharmacy is? I’m paying $210 for a one month supply of NDT at my compounding pharmacy!

      TIA,

      James

      • Yesi says:

        I can share mine. I have mine mailed to me from skips pharmacy in Florida. I have combo t3/t4 equivalent to old Naturethroid 146.25 (when it was good) I pay about under $ 80 + 8$ shipping for a 3 month supply! Love them and way cheaper than other regular pharmacy brands. Got tired of all the NDT companies changing thier formulas and then I tank, and they lie.

  158. Gladioli says:

    After reading through many of the comments here it is hard to know what to do with regard to starting thyroid treatment. Sounds like ALL NDTs have problems. If a product is different every time you get your script filled how is one supposed to ever stabilize on a dose? Would I be better off starting out with Thyro-Gold or Thyrovanz instead of trying to convince my doc into giving me Armour (because that is likely the only thing he will prescribe other than a T4 only)? I was hoping I had finally found a way to be functional again but I am so confused about what to do, I have not done a thing to move forward with treatment.

  159. Gail says:

    What combination of standardized t4 and t3 tablets/capsules is the equivalent of 1 grain of NDT?

  160. Wanda says:

    Hi. I picked up my Armour Thyroid from local pharmacy a few days ago. When I go to split the pill, it crumbles. I said, oh no they have given me NP Thyroid again by mistake. So I look at the pill and it has the same A stamp on it for Armour. Had one last Armour pill and compared them. The RX and stamp seems authentic. But, it is clearly not the same formula. The pills can hardly be split without crumbling. Anyone else notice a change in Armour Thyroid?

    • Peggy says:

      Wanda,
      I picked up Armour this week and it is crumbly. I don’t have anything to compare with, though, as it is the first Armour I have purchased in years — been taking WP or NatureThroid. I think this Armour tastes nasty. WP and NatureThroid do not taste the same to me, either. (I remember how I used to look forward to chewing my pill and finding that little nugget of “porcine thyroid.” Those days are long gone.)

  161. Rachel Hamlin says:

    Update: Acella’s adverse effects reporting division called me and so I gave them a thorough and detailed accounting of how it differed and how it made me sick. Is there a chance that this means they’ll take it seriously? Still haven’t received any bottle to send it back though. Maybe they are just going through the motions to satisfy FDA reporting…..I just want old NP back…..

    I think I’ll try WP ……

  162. Christa says:

    So….I have read through the thread and in response to my question and a few others is the reason we are unable to get Thiroyd, Thyroid-S etc from Thailand. So my qustion is, does anyone know just how long they will last on the shelf in the dark? When I started this crazy ride with my husband, we could not find a dr. to prescribe NDT so I bought a large bottle of Thiroyd, We then found a dr. to prescribe NDT and switched. I have at least 800 pills. Manufacture date was 2015 🙁 are they garbage?????? Argh. Any thoughts would be appreciated, because if I thought for a minute they could still be good I would switch him back.

    • Lori says:

      I like to store my NDT in the refrigerator, my experience has been that it does last for years, worst case scenario it will become weaker and the dose has to be increased. You are lucky to have Greater Pharma, I have found Thyroid S to be weaker, more difficult to make work and it’s now triple price but it’s all that’s left.

  163. Nicky says:

    Does anyone have a good dr that understands how all of this works in Cleveland area? I moved here recently and have been told that some of my symptoms are due to taking armour ( I can’t sleep at night, and get irritable, too many swings in feelings) and have been switched to levothyroxine and a lower amount of armour. It’s been 20 years since RAI and I need an endo that is good at this. I originally had a “top doc” I found at UBC in Vancouver but am now living here in the US and having to start over, and also trying to find one that takes my insurance. This is just a nightmare. ( I was taking cytomel and armour for a while and I felt good but also a bit too hyper. This is so difficult to figure out. ) I also cannot find the “top doc” page where I found my endo in Vancouver. Any help is appreciated.

    • Total BS from doctors who can’t stand the fact that a medication called Armour works better than their beloved T4-only. And to add t4 what is already 80% T4 is mostly silly and all a person has to do is raise the armour.

      But in your case, it’s what the armour is revealing that is important. We have learned that it can be two issues: one, that you kept yourself on a lower dose too long. That backfires on us. Or two, Armour is revealing that you now have a cortisol problem (and being are mostly T4 is going to exacerbate that problem).

      First do Discovery step one on this page to see if you have an adrenal problem that needs a saliva test and to treat: : https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

      And when the day comes that a potential adrenal problem is properly treated, learn what optimal is: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Nicky says:

        Thanks for this info. I have been on a low dose for a long time that is true. I had to argue with the dr to keep taking some of the armour. I have not had any money at all to take expensive tests, and have only bought my own free t4, free t3 and tsh from labcorp for myself. We lost health insurance after a car accident and lost a job because of the car accident. So, self treating for 3 years. Now on insurance and hoping to find a dr that will follow your thinking!

        • Lexy Johnson says:

          Hi. Dr Silverblatt in mentor is excellent and very open to ndt. Due to the disaster above he’s working with me on options for something other than ndt but I do recommend him highly.

  164. Sue says:

    Thank you for posting this info. I’ve recently crashed from my latest Rx of Nature-Throid. After about a week, I had dizziness. I checked my blood pressure and it was up substantially but my heart rate was low. Hair was starting to fall out again. Weight was going up. Of course, every time this happens it takes a couple of days to process and research because my brain stops working. Fortunately, I had some of an Erfa Rx leftover that I’m able to take until I can get another prescription.

    Thank you for all you do to help us. I’ve grown weary of pleading with manufacturers to provide safe medicines.

  165. Gail says:

    This past Saturday my BP went up to 219/102 at highest reading and was fluctuating between that and 170/79. I was still on Naturethroid (with some added T3) but had my new prescription for Armour in hand. After starting the Armour, stopping T3, and cutting my ndt dose almost in half AND taking supplements to support my adrenals, my BP has come down, thankfully, though not quite back to normal yet. The Naturethroid was a 90 day prescription dated 11/8/19 with a 1 year expiration date. It has the speckles but I didn’t notice any change in smell. That could be because I always refrigerate it. The only warning was that my dose had come down with the previous 2 refills based on labs, and some dizzy spells, but I didn’t make a connection. I had a BP reading the Wednesday before that was perfectly normal.

    After getting stable on Armour I’m going to try bioidentical/sythetic T4/T3 to see how it works because, as Janie says, who knows when Armour (or even compounded ndt) will go south. I dealt with the shortages of WP and compounded ndt but never imagined something like this could happen. Luckily I found out what’s going on through this page in time to get something else prescribed and shipped to me (in the nick of time!).

    Janie, in getting optimal by adding T3 to NDT do you still need to multi-dose? I was taking the extra 15 mcg T3 all at once.

  166. Ruth says:

    I got a mail order batch that I had to check markings on because I could immediately tell smelled different. Ever since I have felt terrible and now I am having palpitations they almost landed me in the ER AND put me on afib according to my Apple Watch I have appt with the cardiologist. Unbelievable.

    • So sorry you’ve had to go through that. It’s terrible what has happened. Which brand?

      • Ruth says:

        Acella – I am so angry right now. I have no idea what to do – go to synthetics? I don’t convert well so add the t3 synthetic? Terrified over the porcine now. You should see the readings from the Apple Watch. All symptoms started when I noticed the new smell. I am not crazy.

        • No, you are not crazy. It’s been happening to many patients with the smelly ones. It’s fine to go with T4 and T3 as long as you work to get optimal. Many are liking both for their treatment. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

          • Julie says:

            Ok, so confused. I was doing gr8 on naturethroid but had to switch when I couldnt get it. Went on np. Ok at first, actually seemed to have less itching issues. But did notice a distinct change in pills taste and smell during summer of 2019. So now, I cant say I have noticed any obvious effects from the different np tablets, but I dont feel great either and my levels are not optimal as they were on naturethroid back b4 its backlog. Main question…u mentioned synthetic t3 and t4 as an option. Is that different than the synthroid/levothyoxine I have heard is so bad? I am confused as to what to ask my doctor for. What do u suggest as the first nwxt step?

        • Yesi says:

          Yes, same here stated off with Naturethroid, then Np thyroid, then switched to armour with cytomel. Finally went to synthetic T3/T4 from a compounding pharmacy, skips pharmacy in Florida. Been ot it since sep. of last year and saw an immediate difference and still feel great! Much cheaper than buying armour and adding cytomel. And since its compounded especially for me, it’s the exact t3/t4 my body needs. Never going back to those other brands

      • Ruth says:

        By the way the palpitations started pretty much immediately – recently they got so bad they were registering afib on the watch and my general practitioner was concerned and sent me straight to the cardiologist if the same type of episode repeats he advised me to go straight to ER. Funny enough since backing off the thyroid meds I have had a reduction of symptoms. Won’t touch Acella again. Now to decide if to chance armour (I had done great on it before) or if I will go to synthetics with t3 but I had terrible anxiety on syntheroid alone – since I don’t convert

        • Sandie says:

          Hi Ruth. I had the same problem with NP causing tachycardia and it then registered as a fib on the Apple Watch. I just stopped the NP and all issues with heart rhythm stopped…..ironically a itchy rash on the back of my head disappeared after stopping NP. I’m in my 3rd week on Armour and doing just fine with no rhythm issues.

  167. Michaeline says:

    Hi everyone…I haven’t been on the website lately, but so many people asked about the compounding dessicated thyroid meds I’m on.
    I don’t get notifications… I wasn’t trying to ignore anyone by not commenting!
    Still amazing…I just received a 3 month supply. Hope it’s still great!

    https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy/

    • Danielle Lehon says:

      Michaeline, did you stay on the same dosage your were on with NP? Thank you for the name of the pharmacy. Danielle

      • Michaeline says:

        Amy, I used the acidophilus as a filler.

      • Michaeline says:

        Danielle,
        I was on 4.5-5 grains of NP thyroid…but my labs were really high…free T3 always way over the range, so I lowered to 4 grains on the compounded thyroid from cps.
        I feel great, but I just hope they haven’t changed suppliers. We shall see…I just started my new batch yesterday.

        • Gina says:

          Hi, Michaeline I’m just curious to know, you have already done your labs at this point? Have you ever tried t3 + t4 before? Is it your energy fine too right now?, If you’ve been taking it for a while now I’d like to know more about your experience with it, if you’ve ever had headaches or other symptoms before while using NP and if you’ve now completely solved them all, sometimes certain informations are more important than a simple :”i feel great ” when you decide to share your thoughts with others because it helps them understand more …., thanks, Gina.

          • That’s a great way to say it about “I feel great”. The problem is that even on the still working NDT’s like Armour and some compounds, you will feel great before labs are optimal, and it will backfire sooner or latter from not taking enough for you daily, weekly, months needs. It’s being optimal that prevents the backfire. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

    • Amy Lynn says:

      Thank you for coming back & responding, appreciate it. Which filler are you using from cfs, the acidophilus or cellulose? Thanks!

  168. Danielle Lehon says:

    Thank you for all the valuable information on this site. I have battled Hypo for 30 yrs. Synthetics were awful, tried Armour in 2006 it was starting work then went south Sept. 2007, tried NP , Hotze compounded and finally Erfa. On Erfa for about 4 years but still have symptoms,,,a lot of symptoms. 1 1/2 yrs ago diagnosed Hashimoto’s so I eliminated gluten. That helped about 30%. While on 2 grains Erfa 10 mcg Cytomel were added but I started gaining weight and symptoms persisted. At 3 grains of Erfa
    My labs from Quest:
    FT3 4.6 (2.3-4.2). High
    RT3 38 (8 – 25). High
    FT4 1.6 (0.9-1.7) High normal
    TSH .10 (.35 – 4.0)
    To me seems RT3 is the problem. Possibly a conversion issue? Could that cause extreme fatigue, insomnia, low energy, hair falling out, always irritated!!?? What
    Can I do to lower RT3? Doctor has no idea. I talked him into raising me to 4.00 grains but still have same symptoms. Haven’t had labs yet for 4 grains. Any ideas? Thank you, Danielle

    • Hi Danielle. Here’s what we’ve learned about labs like yours: 1) The frees are not meant to be that high. Read where optimal is: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal i.e. it’s not a conversion issue. It’s too much thyroid meds. 2) The RT3 is meant to be in the 3 bottom numbers of the range. Part of why your RT3 is too high is the body will clear out excess T4 by converting it to RT3. 1.6 is excess T4.

      • Danielle Lehon says:

        Janie, thank you. If my Free’s are too high and at a lower dose my symptoms are severe ERFA must not be the correct med. for me.
        So frustrating! Thank you so much for your information. Danielle

  169. Gail says:

    I just spoke with a pharmacist at the compounding pharmacy where I used to get my compounded NDT. They lost their supply of Thyroid USP a couple years ago and still don’t have compounded NDT available because they can’t find a decent supply. I asked her what’s going on and she said she’s not sure why the supply dried up but she did say the one supply they found they won’t use because it has a lot of lactose filler in it and they don’t consider that acceptable since a lot of people can’t tolerate lactose.

  170. Peggy says:

    Janie, I just want to say “Thanks.”

  171. Artie Turner says:

    I knew this would eventually happen: Jane admits that”..all prescription Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) in the US and Canada have gone south/changed from what they used to be.” I first suspected this years ago when the rumors of Armour’s reformulation began. When I could no longer get Armour at any local pharmacies, I started on NP thyroid at the SAME dosage I had been taking of Armour and went through the roof with the jitters. Janie’s comment at the time was that it wasn’t the fault of the new NDT, I simply wasn’t optimal. I found that answer insulting. Of course it’s always great to be “optimal” but there are simply too many moving targets to hit to get uniformly and consistently “optimal” when you have no idea what’s in the NDT you’re taking. I shudder to think what’s causing the physical symptoms that NP users are complaining of. But at least it’s now out there in. the open: NDT is a crap shoot, where you’re never sure what you’re getting from any given batch by any pharmaceutical company. It’s good to know that anyone who comes to this site for thyroid information can at least get the story about combining Synthroid and Cytomel. Given the climate of deregulation that’s gripping the US and the e-coli horrors of the meat processing industry, it’s hard to understand why anyone would want to ingest these bovine organs.

    I’m going back to Synthroid plus cytomel. If you can get “optimal” on the toxic merry go round of NDT, you can get optimal on synthetics with a lot less grief.

    • Artie, you took it wrong. Many people, when NP used to work, simply weren’t getting optimal. When they did get optimal, the problems went away. That’s also true if they got their cortisol optimal. But today, Artie, it’s now true that NDT is a crap shoot because it just seems off and has been causing all sorts of problems with people. And double yes about taking T4 and T3 and getting optimal. It just may be the way to go, because who knows when Armour “might” go south too.

    • Rachel Hamlin says:

      But not everyone can metabolize synthetic hormones. I couldn’t metabolize them, not for thyroid, not for birth control, not for several other issues.

  172. DEBBIE HUDSON says:

    My doctor that has now retired put me on a slow release T3 only. I use the RC Compounding Pharmacy

  173. Gail says:

    I was doing well on Naturthroid but my labs started to go wonky in August of last year, with a return of some hypo symptoms and an elevated heart rate. I was also getting these short intense dizzy spells – almost like a mini-black out. My Dr started lowering my dose because of my elevated heart rate before I found this blog post. I’m going to try switching to Armour based on the information here and if that doesn’t work will try a t3/t4 combo. I hope one of those works. I also recently was diagnosed with swelling around my optic nerve that has caused impaired vision. I’m not sure if it’s related. Has anyone else experienced this?

  174. Laurel says:

    Can someone send me a link to where I can buy the NDT from Thailand? I’ve looked on a few sites and they say they are sold out. Which one do you find most effective?

    • Pascale says:

      Due to the shortage of pigs resulted from the African Swine Fever epidemic, production of Thiroyd S and T.R. have been discontinued until further notice.
      this is the answer i got from my supplier in thailand and they don’t know when the production will start again so for the moment nowhere available

    • judy says:

      Laurel…the Thailand suppliers are out of their supplies. There is only one Thailand thyroid product that will continued to be manufactured and that is Thyroid S. They will not be back into production until early spring. Hopefully the formula will be the same…even though they use a number of fillers. Thyroid S seems to have worked for so many. The price will basically double.

    • Lori says:

      You can Google it, the only one available now is Thyroid S in 500 tablet bottles. It can be chewed, rubbed on the side of cheeks and some of that done sublingual.

  175. Tom says:

    Can someone please recommend where to order Thyroid-S from? ERFA is no longer cutting it. Email is discounttommy@hotmail.com

  176. Tamara Shurling says:

    My TSH is at 8.4 right now, as I have had thyroid cancer it is supposed to be suppressed, I have been on Armour for years now and this last year has been hell, I don’t want to go to generic levothyroxine but I don’t see that I have a choice in the matter.

  177. Christa says:

    Hello, could someone let me know (via email I guess?) where they are ordering either Thiroyd, Thyroid-S or T.Man? Everything I can find online is “Out of Stock” – Thank you!!!

    • Judy says:

      Thiroyd and TR Man have been discontinued. The company producing Thyroid S is suppose to be starting production again soon.

  178. Michelle Sarchiapone says:

    Can someone please recommend where to order Thyroid-S from? And the dosage? I am on WP now 2 1/2 65 mgs tablets a day. Also any reliable compounding pharmacies using porcine that IS working for people?

  179. James Mitchell says:

    I was doing pretty well on NP Thyroid for years and then it stopped working for me this year. I’d say I started having issues one prescription before it started smelling and tasting like cat pee. Around August 2019 (approximately.) I decided to try the compounding pharmacy route, and had a long talk with someone there. Take it for what it’s worth, but he said there is only only one legitimate porcine source left in the US. This person/company bought up and owns it all, and is charging whatever they want for the “good stuff”. Supposedly this source is located in Dallas. Again, heresay at this point, but could certainly be the case.

    I’m on week five of the compounded porcine, seem to be doing okay. May try synthetic T4/T3 in the future when I feel more stable.

  180. Kristen Brewer says:

    So, I missed the memo on Nature-Throid going south…after fighting to get on it for the last 7 years. I’ve been doing a combo of Nature-Throid (1 1/2 grains, split dose) and Cytomel (10mcg 3 times/day). This past week was the first time my labs came back even close to good (My RT3 dropped to the bottom number, my FT3 is near the top of the range, but my FT4 is low). Still working on low iron, low D, and adrenals, but I feel human again. Am I feeling better because of so much T3? I don’t think my doc is going to go for another switch after begging to be on this for so long.

  181. Yesi says:

    After months of going down hill and countless doctor visits I have since moved on, found a great Nurse Practioner who was willing to prescribe compounded thyroid meds till I found my correct dose. My thyroid med is synthetic T3/T4. There is no reliable porcine powder anywhere, I’ve called many pharmacies across the country. I am very happy with the synthetic T3/T4, and my numbers are finally great. I will never be going back to desiccated thyroid med, its not worth my time or health dealing and waiting for these company manufacturers to get thier acts together. My meds cost about $76 for a 3 month supply, which is about $10 more than what I would have paid for an NP thyroid 3 month supply but way less if I had gone to Armour. I get my prescription filled at Skips Pharmacy in Floria, I live in Az and they mail it to me with no issues.

    • Donna says:

      Yesi I am in Mesa, AZ. I am wanting to go this route as well. Can I ask you who your nurse practitioner is?

      • Yesi says:

        She is out of Yuma, Az.

        Tammy Slade Florez N.P
        Office name:
        Aura Grace

        • Roberta says:

          I have been on wp it originally worked til they changed it in may I then Went to armour still felt bad then NP in August felt ok but slowly been getting worse however my labs r ok except my tsh went from. Point 9 in July to now 1.07 but my free t3 at top of range and t4 at bottom of range which is supposed to be right? Well I have gained tons of weight and the lethargy is awful I also take 5mcg t3 twice a day. I just got switched to levothyroxine 50 MCG and will never take it again all day had a racing heart and hot and cold and yawning all day til 3 am. What is helping? My Dr is suggesting armour it naturethroid he says the base thyroid may be lower now in the newly made meds which may be the issue.

      • Yesi says:

        Since you are out of Mesa, I would call Porters Compounding (close to Mesa I belive) and ask them for names of Drs who prescribe compounded t3/t4 in your area. Obviously those Drs are open to prescribing for patients.

  182. Michaeline says:

    Hi. I just started a desiccated compound thyroid medication and it’s amazing. Better then NP even when it was good. My labs are beyond optimal, more energy and have loss a few pounds. If anyone would like the name of compound pharmacy, please let me know. They use acidophilus as a filler. There is hope!!

  183. Lori says:

    I have been on NDT for over 40 years and I’d just like to say that I have been through many of these shortages or crisis, it’s never been a the end of NDT forever. It may take some time before the supply comes back and either a new NDT that is high quality and can be done sublingual will show up or they will fix one of the current brands. Unfortunately there is a swine fever that has caused a shortage of NDT.
    https://thecompounder.com/2019/05/06/african-swine-fever-hogs-and-thyroid/

    • Rachel Hamlin says:

      I’m on a call with Acella now on hold trying to talk to their NP specialist. THe first line rep says no change was made when I said that was false she said the only change was in supplier, that the porcine thyroid comes from europe now and she speculated it was how they were raised but claimed that no filler etc had changed. Again using the “cosmetic” change line which I told her was false. In any case when I started crying about how this was going to ruin not only my life but my young kids. SO I got through to DAvid as some have mentioned and he gave me a case number but says it should be fine this new supplier was thoroughly vetted and claims that they’ll send me a mailer to send some pills back.
      In any case – if enough people call and go through starting a case file maybe they’ll start to take us seriously…….

      • Let’s see, NP supposedly has a different supplier and no other change was made. Hmmm…we have NP that now smells like cat pee. We have NP that now tastes horrific. We have an NP that makes some people nauseated. We have an NP that causes some people to have burning down their throats or burning in their stomach. We have an NP that has made labs go south. We have an NP that seems to be causing the vast majority see a return of their hypothyroid symptoms….

        Also note that many, many have sent their pills back. And all they’ve gotten is silence…..

        • Amy says:

          I can now add that the bad smelling NP is the likely cause of me losing a significant amount of hair. Something I have been through before but my hair has been stable for a couple of years now. I keep records and my hair fall out timing is rather predictable and dramatic…an event and about 2.5 months later my hair falls out. I was losing 8x the normal rate. I actually measure it and know my baseline etc. I log everything, med changes, side effects etc and I can’t prove it but it fits my “pattern” and my doc concurs. I lost at least 30% and will be regrowing for the next 2 yrs. Again. So frustrating, my hair had recovered so nicely I let it grow longer than normal and I got a lot of compliments. Then I have to go and cut it all off, my hair dresser, doc everyone was so kind but they totally could see the loss. Doc was very kind and is monitoring me closely make sure I am optimal on everything. If you have any suggestions re hair I’d appreciate it.

      • Yesi says:

        Rachel,
        Sorry to break it to you but David nor anyone there care. I spoke with many people at the main office. They promised to send a mailer, call my pharmacy, exchange my meds. Refund me, and they did nothing. All lies. After months of going down hill and countless doctor visits I have since moved on, found a great Nurse Practioner who was willing to prescribe compounded thyroid meds till I found my correct dose. My thyroid med is synthetic T3/T4. There is no reliable porcine powder anywhere, I’ve called many pharmacies across the country. I am very happy with the synthetic T3/T4, and my numbers are finally great. I will never be going back to desiccated thyroid med, its not worth my time or health dealing and waiting for these company manufacturers to get thier acts together. My compounded meds cost about $76 for a 3 month supply, which is about $10 more than what I would have paid for an NP thyroid 3 month supply but way less if I had gone to Armour. I get my prescription filled at Skips Pharmacy in Floroda.

  184. Bonnie Medd says:

    I’m currently on Tirosint-SOL and cytomel. I haven’t felt good since Naturthroid went south, Then NP.

    My question: is ANYONE optimal and doing great on Thyrovanz?

    • Get optimal on the tirosint and T3. Then you will feel good. Read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Bonnie Medd says:

        Just got my results back. Not sure what to do here. Yes, I’ve been under stress with the mast cell stuff, is this why my reverse T3 is so high? Any suggestions?

        Thyroid levels @ 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15mcg Cytomel
        12/5/19

        Free T4 is 1.67
        Range 0.76-1.70

        Free T3 is 3.6
        Range 1.9-3.9

        Reverse T3 is 22.8
        Range 9.0-27.0

        • Rachel Hamlin says:

          some people just can’t metabolize synthetic hormones. I can’t and now I’,m having a hage panic b/c my kids are going to watch me slowly die a horrible death b/c I let those bastards take out my whole thyroid and I don’t know what to do! I can’t go back to lying on the couch after a few minutes of activity my little kids need me!! I’m so scared and mad..

          • What about T3? Have you tried getting optimal on it? I did horrible on T4 alone, but I soared on the former good NDTs in spite to not converting the synthetic T4. Right now, the best options are:

            1) T4 with T3 and getting optimal
            2) Compounded NDT and getting optimal – they seem to have a good source of porcine powder
            3) Armour and getting optimal, and if someone can’t get there on it, they add T3 to it and get optimal
            4) T3-only, multi-dosed, and getting optimal

            https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

        • Yesi says:

          Try compounded synthetic T3/T4 . Worked for me

  185. Betty says:

    I think I may have an answer to the cat pee taste in the NP. I searched the internet and found out that buckwheat honey can sometimes have a cat pee taste for some people. I than went and found out that pigs can eat buckwheat. What if the ingredient that they are buying in Europe is from pigs that have eaten buckwheat? Just a thought.

  186. Val Varela says:

    I am a Nurse Practitioner and have been prescribing all of the above mentioned thyroid preparations (except Canadian) for years. I have watched my patients labs as well as their symptoms go South for the last several years. We have used many different combinations and I am finding the same results that you have reported here. One thing that I would like to know about, is somewhere I heard that the NDT from China was coming from cloned pigs. Is there anyway to verify this information (misinformation)? Also, I see how dangerous this road is. We do need to gather together to stop this great threat to our health. Thank you for your Blog!

    • It is extremely refreshing to have you post here. And yes, we are gathering. We have no choice when it’s the medical community, especially in Endocrinology, fails us. I will be posting more.

  187. Betty White says:

    Have I got a problem. I was on NP and losing weight, but when the new batch came out it made me sick, itchy, and hair falling out. I changed to Nature throid and started to feel better and my hair has stopped falling out, but I cannot lose weight now. Any ideas? I can’t take armour and will not go back to NP as long as they are making it the same.

  188. Annomaly says:

    When I got the news that I had Graves Disease, radiation was required for me. It was life threatening. It took 6 months of Synthroid poisoning to find your website and then my quest to find the right mix of Porcine medication began. Along with much reading and researching on my part, there were a lot of bumps along the way – and after much trial and error (and a dozen doctors and even more tests than I can count) I found the right doctor and the right medicine. WP was THE solution for me. By the time I felt great – it disappeared.

    Like you I was devastated to start back at GO to find a solution. I even went the compound route. It didn’t take long before I felt awful again – and demanded testing which showed my levels were very off.

    I took the initiative and contacted the compound pharma asking about the filler used – there are many different fillers which can impact absorption which I discovered in my research. I got educated on the different types (slow release capsules typically uses a type of cellulose that makes taking the medicine virtually worthless for me) and learned that you can request a different type of filler like a powered milk (which is bad for my lactose intolerance) or none at all. The idea that the filler was impacting me was news to me. No one told me I had an option to change them in my compounded medicine! So I had my medicine remade and went back for testing again months later, only to still have my numbers askew and feeling awful. I also learned that compounding medicines were NOT covered by my insurance 🙁

    I called the pharmacy again -and much to my surprise I learned that they had made my medicine with Synthetic T4 (Synthroid) because it seems the doctor had failed to notate PORCINE. Imagine my horror – at least I had an answer and fired my doctor.

    I asked the compounding pharmacy a lot of questions. What I also learned was that most of the Porcine Powder now used for compounding was being sourced from China – and tariffs and import fees were on the horizon ready to bring higher costs to the consumers.

    For me, a doctor switch was in order and with my new doc, a new medicine. We got me back to ‘optimal’ on NP Thyroid. To be honest, optimal or not, I learned that with each 3 month supply of medicine, blood work is in order to ensure that the latest ‘batch’ of medication isn’t negatively impacting me. For the first time in 5 years I have been consistently normal now for 1 consecutive year. I’m not thrilled about the extra cost of testing, but its a small price to pay compared to having bad medicine make me feel worse.

    I also learned (the hard way) not to combine ‘leftover’ medicine from a prior prescription lot with the newest prescription I receive. This means I can more easily identify what Lot of medication may be negatively impacting me should a switch of ingredients take place.

    Even more concerning now is the fact that the standards for the animals in other countries aren’t as stringent as they are in the US. A September 2019 CNN news article reported over 100 million pigs died of swine flu in China. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/business/china-pork-swine-fever-pigs/index.html

    This news can only mean that the future cost of Porcine based medicines will be fluctuating and may also be in short supply if the sourcing is coming from China.

    If I could buy a 1 year supply in bulk I would – that way I would be sure that I would have the same medicine from a Lot that works for me. Unfortunately that isn’t realistic under my medical insurance.

    Porcine based medicines are only as good as the base AND the FILLER- which are NOT required to be listed by the manufacturers in the ingredients list. When labs have a surplus of a filler used for a different medication they can finish it up by mixing it into our medication to help them save costs. This happens more frequently than anyone wants to admit.

    Asking ‘what has changed’ in my medicine – will get the answer ‘nothing’ and in fact its still porcine the medical ingredient- so that answer is technically correct. The reality is that more likely than not the FILLERS may have changed and with it our ability to absorb. No one is going to identify what FILLER was used because they aren’t required to. Its a guessing game at best.

    I have chosen to continue with NP Thyroid and testing every 3 months to spot any fluctuation in my numbers as early as I possibly can. My daily thyroid cocktail includes (every other day) 15mg or 20mg Cytomel, 75mg NP Thyroid, with Orthomolecular Adren-All and B-Complex, Viviscal Professional, 2000U D3, and every other day Iodine supplements.

    Being vigilant about our medicines and what is in them is the only way we can remain healthy. It seems more frequent testing can help us to identify when changes have occurred and minimize the impacts we may feel because of it. Never be afraid to ask questions at the pharmacy because mistakes happen all the time !

    Good luck to everyone in their quest for ‘optimal’ in 2020.

    a

  189. Theresa says:

    HI Janie,

    I hope you had a good Thanksgiving! I’m reaching out to you because I want to make it my mission with your help to find an ethical pharmaceutical company that will manufacture a clean NDT that will not compromise on quality for the sake of greedy profiteering. The only NDT I can take is WP Thyroid and it today it is virtually worthless! It does nothing for me like the original brand. RLC Labs keeps saying they haven’t change the formulation but something has changed because our bodies do not lie. Furthermore, they are sourcing their NDT from China and who knows for sure how the NDT is being manufactured. Personally I don’t want to take any medications from China because there standards are not like they were in the US. Let me know your thoughts. I watched your video recently and you said you need our help so I am offering my help to do what we can to bring NDT back to the market without all the synthetic and toxic fillers and additives. – Theresa

    • Hi Theresa. Yes, every single pharmaceutical has said they changed nothing, which we all know is a ridiculous statement. Or then you have acella which only admits it’s using a European source, failing to mention all the other obvious changes that patients keenly see.

      Also we can’t definitively say that the thyroid powder is coming from China. Sure, we can state we wonder about it, but to state it as fact is not helpful.

      Another problem is supply of the porcine powder in the US. It appears to have been lost, which leaves you to wonder if any pharmaceutical would have the same problem of having to source it from out of the country.

      What I would like more than anything right now is to have a private conversation with an insider in the pharmaceutical industry as to what is going on. Someone speaking the dirty truth…

      • Karen H. says:

        I checked with Armour last week and with RLC the week before and they both said all of their porcine thyroid is sourced from WITHIN the continental US for Armour and the continental US and Canada for RLC. Even Acella claims theirs come from Europe, not China. So I don’t think the China connection has been established.

        • gina says:

          They are lying. There are no remaining NDT powder producers left in the U S. It is produced in China and imported by the U.S. They purchase it from the importer so they can make that claim but it doesn’t change the fact that it is a product of China. Ask for proof of where it is produced. Everyone has a right to know where the ingredients in their medicine comes from.

          • Just Me says:

            I know this is frustrating, but we cannot say companies are lying about sourcing without proof. We are getting so much misinformation and rumors. Try to find proof. Hire a private investigator, contact an investigative reporter. Understand that people getting supplements from Thailand are probably getting NDT from China.

          • Just Me is right. I’m glad she beat me to the punch–I don’t always get back to posts quick enough. I don’t mind approving everyone’s frustrations, but we can’t make black and white statements that we can’t prove.

  190. Bonnie Medd says:

    Jamie, I may just be dense, but I cannot find where your post is that says what our alternatives are now. Can you let me know the link?

    I’m not sure if it’s all this change, but now it appears I’ve developed something called Mast Cell Activation Disease. Every single day I deal with welts all over my body. Burning, itching welts. Has this happened to anyone else? It’s put me in the hospital twice. This started just over a month ago. This is the worst I’ve ever been, even with thyroid cancer and wavering levels. This is debilitating.

    Right now I’m on 75mcg Tirosint-SOL and 15 mcg if cytomel. I feel as if I’m not even on thyroid medicine. I get tested on Monday.

      • Bonnie Medd says:

        Haha. I skimmed through this (all my poor brain can handle right now) and completely missed the options now section. Duh. Thanks.

        Any idea on the Mast Cell thing? Apparently it’s another autoimmune thing. Is this something other people without thyroids deal with?

        • Researchers do see a connection with mast cell syndrome and certain autoimmune diseases. But I don’t get the impression one has to have an autoimmune problem to have it. And the inappropriate release of mast cells has nothing to do with not having a thyroid. But I would do an internet search for triggers of the inappropriate release and see if you can avoid those triggers.

        • RenegadeRN says:

          Bonnie, my mom and daughter both have mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS). No doctor could diagnose them as they have vastly different symptoms… but I stumbled onto a book written by the doc, considered to be the “godfather” of MCAS! Get “Never Bet Against Occam” off Amazon, written by Dr. Lawrence B. Afrin MD. It’s kinda dense, but worth it.

          My daughter and mom take 2 mast cell stabilizers daily, that are over the counter, works well! One is a product by Bluebonnet Labs called Super Quercetin, has Quercetin, Vitamin C and other stabilizers, and Zyrtec or Claritin which stabilizes another of the histamines.
          If these fail due to something really provoking those mast cells, (like eating leftover Thanksgiving ham), they take Benadryl as a “rescue” med. It has truly changed my adult daughter’s life! Hope that helps!

          • Bonnie Medd says:

            Thank you!!!

          • Meagan Kelsey says:

            Ketotifen an H1 has been helpful for me with mast cell! Rx from immunologist and compounded. Insurance covers. Lifesaver! Dr wanted am/pm. I only took PM. For over a year. Finally got toxic breast implants out and source solved. Undertreated thyroid, adrenal strain.. cortisol reactions made me have mast cell reactions (degranulation) another ex more helpful for gi mast cell: cromolyn sodium, can also be applied to skin. Mast cell is also associated with genetic EDS

  191. Nikkeia Hardman says:

    Great news!! I’ve tried all the Old and reformulated NDT and yep they all have gone south!! I have been without a thyroid for 13 years. I’m doing super on T.R by T man. I ordered it from Thailand and I didn’t need a Prescription. They come in 65 mcg and they taste very good (like papaya). I’ve been taking them for 3 months now and I love it!! No side effects and you get 2000 pills for $90. Give it a try!!!

  192. Judih says:

    Good morning and GOOD NEWS for us NDT users!

    I found a compounding pharmacy; their 1gr. = 60 mg.

    https://www.cfspharmacy.pharmacy

    They are so nice to deal with and will get my Rx in 5-10 business days!

    There is always hope!

    Blessings,
    Judith

  193. catherine says:

    I was previously on NP. I recently switched to compounded porcine powder. My SHBG has been steadily raising. It was 101 back in June, then 147 in September before switching to compounded and now 163. I do not know what to think? I am not going through menopause yes. I am 46 and hormone levels otherwise were ok.

    Why to women on T3/NDT/testosterone treatment tend to have high SHBG?

  194. Leenis says:

    I’ll add my feedback on WP Thyroid to that of others who have found out that it doesn’t work the same any more. I’ll not bore you with the long saga of my thyroid journey. I had put my hopes on the WP Thyroid which had transformed my life before it disappeared from the market. My joy of being able to access it again has turned to huge disappointment instead.
    Thank you for running this website, Janie. It’s been very helpful to me. I had wondered if I was the only one who reacted badly to the new WP Thyroid…

  195. Christa Fazzi says:

    Hello,
    I am curious what people have noticed with WP Thyroid recently. My husband’s last batch 3 months ago was somewhat smelly (kind of like the issues we had with the NP Thyroid before he switched back to WP) and NO specks. I picked up a batch today and now (just like the NP) it has specks in it but absolutely NO smell…….

    • It’s like all the American brands are using the same source…..

      By th way, are you sure they didn’t substitute NP for your WP? Pharmacies tend to do that….

      • Christa Fazzi says:

        Hi Janie – No, they did not substitute with NP – it has the RLC labs imprinted on it. I found it weird that it did not smell though like the NP started to do and like the last batch of WP. I knew they have all been changing and he has been struggling so we were considering a switch to synthetic T3/T4, but then it took me by surprise that even after the change in the WP last year, (this year?) that is was only NOW that I was seeing specks. Admittedly I was hoping that it was a good sign only in that the last batch without specks a few months ago didn’t seem like he was taking anything! Sigh. Thank you for absolutely everything you do.

  196. Theresa says:

    WP Thyroid used to work optimally but now after the reformulation it no longer works for me. Unfortunately, WP Thyroid was the only medication I could take because all the other NDTs contain synthetic fillers and caused even worse symptoms. I even worked with a compounding pharmacy to prepare a NDT formulation only to find out 3 months later it was generic synthetic T4 and T3 which smelled like the the real thing. I was deceived and you cannot trust PCCA who sets the standards. They are not transparent about what they formulate in their labs and they do not inform compounding pharmacies with the truth to educate the patient if you inquire. Every time I ask more and more questions I get more resistance. When I was on the compounding formula which I thought was 100% NDT powder in capsules I developed high blood pressure which I never had in my life plus a host of other symptoms. And now I’ve learned that our NDT formulations are sourced from China. We don’t even have a trustworthy manufacturer in America that manufactures clean NDT anymore. They sold out for big pharma and money and don’t give a squat about jeopardizing hypothyroid patients health. I think this is criminal and they get away with It. I no longer trust and rely on RLC Labs because they have never been transparent with what is going on behind the scenes. I’ve heard many patients say the new WP formulation does not work but RLC says they haven’t change a thing. We know better. Our symptoms don’t lie. I even tired T3 but this is also synthetic. We have been deceived and misled. I’ve tried bovine but this does not work the same and there is no consistency or brand you can trust. I guess what we can do as a patient group is maybe find a honest investor who would be willing to start a new company to manufacture clean NDT. At this point, I am at a lost. I recommend everyone research and educate themselves on China’s 2023 Intiatiave to be the number one supplier of pharmaceuticals.

  197. Luis Castaño Sánchez says:

    Hello. Few days ago, I see your video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdTB5IRZhs ) and I’m spreading it on FB. But one friend of me (here in Spain) ask me one question: There is maybe one spanish version for better understanding? If not, it’s possible to make one? Thanks a lot for your work. Luis Castaño.

    • Hi there Luis. The Spanish translation was done on the 2012 edition. It shows here: https://laughinggrapepublishng.com It’s very expensive to do translations, so we’ll have to wait for awhile to see if there are enough funds from LGP to do another one. But right now, just the 2012 translation.

      • Luis Castaño Sánchez says:

        Hi: Thanks for the quick answer but I think you misunderstood maybe my question. I have your book in Spanish and it was (and is) very very helpful, so thanks a lot. My question was about the video. Words in the video are in English. And I think it will be great making an spanish version (or maybe sbutitles). That’s my question. Best regards.

  198. sam says:

    Hi
    I suspect that the powers that be read these forums and don’t want people to get better so have put pressure on the manufacturers to change the NDT products. Its nothing to do with profit as they will lose business if their products don’t work!
    Its more likely the drug industry as a whole that run the FDA and politicians that insisted on the changes.
    There needs to be an investigation as to who instigated these changes. Are there any whistleblowers out there?

  199. Michaeline says:

    Is anyone using thyroid S from Thailand? It seems reasonable and easy to order over the internet.
    I would love to have it as a back up in case the desiccated compound I will be getting doesn’t work out. Thanks.