Hello my thyroid friends. I am updating this in 2025. I ended regular blog posts in 2022 after the physical passing of someone dear to me. And that loss underscored that I need to have an important break from what one was doing before, like writing blog posts and more.
But I do want to tell you what happened to me in 2022, as it will apply to any of you.
If you didn’t know, still being hypothyroid has many symptoms. The best list on the internet is this one.
I say “the best” not to criticize other lists. I say it because this list is not only based on 23 years of reported patient experiences and observations, it doesn’t include symptoms which are more related to adrenals in order to puff the list up.
And one symptom is the “inability to conceive”. l didn’t have this problem. But some women do when they are still hypothyroid, either from not being diagnosed, or being treated poorly on T4-only, or underdosed even with T3 in their treatment.
Here’s more specifically what I want to tell you…
I was at a restaurant eating my breakfast one morning, but it was actually a brunch. I eat my “breakfast”
around 1pm. Why? Because I’m doing intermittent fasting from approximately 10pm the night before until about 1pm the next day. I do this to keep my insulin levels down (I have a touch of insulin resistance I want to fight against). It’s also anti-dementia, anti-Alzheimer’s to do it. Plus doing it keeps my weight down beautifully. It’s not hard for me to do, as I get my energy from fat when fasting. I don’t even notice it much.
The waitress walked up to me. She said “I remember you from a few years ago!” with a smile on her face.
I asked how?? She said that she had waited on me before, and that I was the reason she had been able to turn her inability around to have more children around! She now has three sons instead of the one when I met her.
I had apparently found out she was on Synthroid, told her about Stop the Thyroid Madness, about a better way to treat hypothyroidism and all related no matter the cause. She has now been on Armour instead of the Synthroid she used to be on—the latter which prevented her from getting pregnant again. She was now doing fabulously. She showed me a photo her now three darling sons, all thanks to throwing Synthroid to the wind and now having T3 in her treatment.
She also underscored that she has been using her new STTM knowledge to guide her doctor, who is willing to listen. That is the kind of doctor we all have to work to find. I’ve done it. I know that those of you in the UK, as one example, have it hard, though.
But it’s also important to know that anyone reading this can do fabulously with T4 and T3, or with T3-only if there is an RT3 problem to treat. You just need to READ this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. And I don’t mean skim the latter page. Read it all.
And do consider getting the STTM books, which are here. The bottom line is that doctors have terrible training when it comes to either hypothyroidism or Hashimoto’s, and believe in that terrible training. So it means YOU, ME, ALL OF US have to be better informed when we walk into the doctor’s office in order to counter whatever they try to do that will not help you.
Important notes: All the information on this website is copyrighted. STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.
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420 Responses to “Janie Bowthorpe is back, but this will be the only blog post you can respond to, as I am taking a break from constant blogging….”
connie loynd hill
I have followed on and off for 10? years? After a thyroidectomy :(. What can you say about Dr Childs from Arizona about his supplements. I do take Armour meds and recently lost 10 lbs. just by upping the dose myself! These docs are worthless! But now I want to get even better! So I am looking at supplements. You say?
I also had a stroke 5 years ago 🙁 which didn’t help! A hemorragic stroke, a bleed.
Your insights would be cherished!
Connie Hill
Marilyn Trujillo
Hello Janie,
I have been following your site for years. For about a year after you started the website. I think I followed you on a social media site at one point also.
But I wanted to say sorry for your loss, I know how difficult it is to loose a beloved family and friend.
I know you worked tirelessly on this amazing website and it’s the best out here. I also recommend it to anyone who has any type of thyroid disease.
I have noticed in my area that those who have gotten covid are now having thyroid issues. I still refer them here though. Because it’s important to know what labs to ask for and how to read them.
Thank you for always being here, for being a rock to the thyroid community. For being the one trusted place to go to in a sea of misinformation and scams that are out there.
Always greatful
Marilyn
Judith Stringer
forgot to say you have my thoughts and prayers for your loss. I am glad you found the strength to do this one more time. Hope through the help of others so very important.I led a support group for a couple of years for others who lost loved ones to suicide. I know what grief can do and how important others are in support. We need each other. Blessings. Judith
Judith Stringer
Janie you helped me for years until I told you about being a floxie. You said you were sorry. Maybe nothing can be done without Thousands for stem cell therapy. I have reached the point where I am suicidal every day. I am emf and mcs sensitive and my diagnoses are as long as my arm. My doc is a fam med doc and wanted no medicaid but will order T3 only.Now I think she is trying to get rid of me.I cannot get through the portal.She has dementia.I have on going worsening memory issues, do not drive, home alone most of the time at 78. I had a HA April 23. Hospitalists I think went after my doc for T3 only, my labs showed right over top of range for T3 because I had added in more folate for mthfr. My doc keeps saying ‘this is a business’, she owns two private clinics. I was hospitalized for 6 days w only hi bp as prior symptoms.No perm dam.I need the help of the STTM blog but was told to not submit there anymore.I think my confusion led to that with questions. Don’t know how now, my brain does not work well enough for me to figure out anything. I think I am pooling. T3 30, 30, 25, 25, Iron sat was low last labs DNA probs w iron. Studied mine for 20 yrs.trying to get in for venofer, terribly weak, long term low iron take what I can have gastritis could be internal bleeding. HC 20, 15, 15. Yrs ago good doc put me on it for low T. Money to do saliva tests, I spent my retirement over 31 yrs on nat med. My doc prob won’t help but I will ask for aldosterone blood and try to pay for saliva. Last try I could not get enough saliva. Need your book. latest one. I have been reading STTM site all night unusual for me to be able see double hearing bad. and will tomorrow. Need your new book, had to get walker repaired no $. God Bless & keep you. All of us. My son died by his own hand due to bipolar disease I blame myself have some signs of bipolar I told my doc feel best at night but asked her not to put on my records because others turn their heads don’t want to help.I see she did anyway.Doing nuc tests for gastropharesis. Have so many low t symptoms and even HA could have been hi T.Need good Nat doc my brain is on fire w hi EMF’s need to move no place to go no help from family.Too much trouble one sis and daughter now help w a little $ for food. 31 years. On DSHS but cannot live in public shared wall/laundry bldgs.I am hyper often at night, that is when I feel best now and must do paperwork to keep a roof. I would not have made it this far if I were bipolar 2 or 3.I know T probs can cause it. I am so terribly weak and exhausted. Floxing caused my joints to go, have had both hips, R knee and two neck surgeries.Need both shouldes and L knee but just turned away for knee. Migraines almost daily from spine out of alighnment at C1/C2. When memory goes you are out of it enough to have others leave.I really need the STTM Blog. Can you help me get back on the list? I was told I can figure it out for myself, pay for rest and that all were told to avoid me. But I cannot figure out anything much at all now or then. I hope you remember me, we had many years of helpful discussions. Thank you, Judith
TLC
Janie,
Have you come across any doctors who help Graves’ Disease without resorting to radioactive iodine and/or surgery? If you know of more than one, I live in Florida and asking for my 20-year-old daughter who has extremely elevated antibodies, normal to low TSH, no current eye problems. Tapazole has never changed her antibody levels. Following a gluten-free diet and high-quality food – while being a positive health change – did nothing to help antibodies, either. Thank you.
Sarah Park
I got an ad for this on my Facebook page and am wondering if you’ve heard anything about it. It says it doesn’t need a prescription, which seems weird to me, since Armour and all the other NDT need it. (BTW – you guys are my heroes – turned my life around – thank you!)
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Sarah. You are talking about bovine thyroid, which isn’t regulated like porcine is, thus why it can be sold without a prescription. And there’s no harm in trying it. But I want you to understand that just because one particular company implies that their version of bovine is the best….is not true. All the companies that are selling a bovine thyroid product are getting it from the exact same area of one country. It’s all the same.
But also know that because bovine thyroid is not regulated in any way, there is always the risk that one bottle won’t be the same as previous ones. So it’s important to watch your labs if you use a bovine thyroid product.
I’m so glad you found STTM and it helped turn your life around. One thing I did differently is make Stop the Thyroid Madness NOT about “opinions” (which can be so wrong), but about patient-reported experiences and observations, plus what is consistent in the latter, for years now. So it’s pretty solid.
Francine
Hi Janie,
I’m sorry about your loss. I started taking fludo for low aldosterone about 1 month and 1/2 ago titrating up to 1.75. I started noticing my BP’s were getting higher to dystolic getting to 100 or slightly more on the 1.75 dose. In addition I had sinus surgery 1 week ago. I don’t know if this added to my problems. When I saw the BP’s going higher I weaned down from 1.75 to 1.25 now I seem to be getting rebound with my Bp’s. I am at day 4. I was planning to wean down further as this whole situation has freaked me out. Can you please advise of what to do as I’m getting nervous about them going higher?
Thank You, Fran
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Francine. We are always in the “trying out” phase as patients, and recognizing individuality in experiences. That’s why there is a “gray areas of our experiences” page. Maybe you were on too much? And maybe the sinus surgery hasn’t helped either. Do stay in touch with your doc, too. One sure thing we have learned in working with our docs is getting the sodium and potassium back up if they went south due to low aldosterone. I got low aldosterone due to the stress of loss over time, and I’m working on keeping the potassium up where healthy patients fall. Have to test to see where it is.
Candace
I am so sorry for your loss. I feel that deeply. – about how it ages you. I lost my brother (only 51) in July and less than two months later, my father. It’s been horrible, and during all of that trying to figure out why I have felt like garbage for so long (going on basically a lifetime) with no energy and tens of thousands spent on doctors that never actually helped me.
So, I’m here – looking and hoping to find another piece of the puzzle.
Holly
First of all, I’m sorry for your loss. Second of all, THANK YOU. It’s because of this site that I found back in 2008 that I was able to find a doctor to properly diagnose and treat me, and to take only T3 after various types and dosages of T4 stopped working. I have been symptom-free ever since… Until recently. I was taking 75mcg of T3 twice a day (morning and night) but was able to drop down to every morning plus every other night. That seemed to work for me. Then a new doctor scared me and I dropped to just the morning dose. It took two months to notice my symptoms return, but they did, and I went to taking 75mcg in the morning and 50mcg at night. This is what I’ve been doing for 2-3 years now and everything seemed fine — good energy, good sleep, steady weight. However, in the last year, I’ve been gaining weight again (15 lbs in 12 mos) and I’ve started to feel the fatigue creeping in. What I’m not sure about is whether I’m taking too much T3 or too little (when I was taking too much, it mirrored the symptoms of taking too little!!). I’m scared to go back down to just once a day and wait to see what happens (while I gain more weight….). Wondering if you have seen this kind of thing happen in people. Thank you again.
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m going to assume your doctor stupidly expressed alarm at the normal low TSH when we have T3 in our treatment? They are just terribly uninformed that it is NORMAL to have a low TSH when there is T3 in our treatment, and it is NOT hyper.
Yes, it can happen that being underdosed isn’t obvious for awhile, then all hell breaks lose. And we discovered that we can now have stressed adrenals for not understanding that about the TSH with T3 in our treatment. So you may now have to look into your adrenals: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And seems like you haven’t read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/ That’s always been our goal. But if you now have stressed adrenals from being underdosed, we realized we need to order the saliva test mentioned, plus look at aldosterone testing via blood.
G
HI Janie
if you take too much Thyroid and are hyper, would you see an increase in temp above 98.6? every since taking Progesterone I feel more wired than before and more internal vibration, but temp is usually at 98.6, sometime at 99, in the afternoon.
I don’t understand if it is more cortisol or too much thyroid
Janie Bowthorpe
You mention ‘taking too much thryoid hormone”, then refer to taking Progesterone. Those are different so not sure what you are asking.
What we as patients have noticed is that temps are not always accurate to what is going on.
G
sorry the confusion, a better question would be: can too much cortisol feel like too much thyroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
I need clarification. Are you asking “can taking too much cortisol” feel like too much thyroid ? I would need to know more specifics, such as if you are taking hydrocortisone, how much, why you are taking it.
Or are you asking “does high cortisol in my body” feel like too much thyroid? I would need to know if you’ve tested for high cortisol and how.
G
I’m on 1 grain Armour, TSH is at 1.0 early am, I also have been on Hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue for 2 years, but recently I have decreasing to 20mg and everything was somewhat ok till this point. However, I have been complaining already for quiet sometime to feel a bit too wired at night, and not feeling sleepy at night like I used to.
This what happened: I started to supplement with Progesterone because my level is low, I’m a male by the way. beside enjoying some good benefit from it, I also started to complain of feeling more wired, and really more hyper, too much energy, feeling everything going fast and at some point almost having a panic attack from being too hyper. My temp in the PM taken with underarm thermometer is either at 98.6 or sometime at 99, often I see my systolic BP at 145/50, previously at 125/35
I don’t understand if this can be my thyroid is working more, or this is too much HC. I’m going on Monday am to see if there are changes in the TSH, I’m also cutting back on the HC, currently at 15mg
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. You badly need to study the STTM 1 book with the blue gray cover, especially the chapter on desiccated thyroid. You are seriously underdosing yourself, which continues to stress your adrenals. And you need to study Chapter 6 on the correct use of HC. I can only do so much if you aren’t reading, reading, reading.
Margaret
Is this website only for hypothyroidism as I cannot find anything about hyperthyroidism which is my problem. Thanks in advance
Janie Bowthorpe
Start here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/graves
Jeff
Hi Janie, does an increase in synthetic T3 require a decrease in synthetic T4 for balance, and how much? Had started 5mcg of T3 to accompany my 112 of T4. Recent tests show Free T3 at 290 pg/dL, Free T4 1.4 ng/dL, TSH 1.92 miu/L. Still have symptoms, tired often, twitchy calf muscles, nerves and stomach messed up, but worst is the anxiety and edginess. If trying an increase to 10mcg T3 to get towards optimal, does that require an adjustment to lower the T4, or leave it alone to keep T4 in optimal range? I just didn’t want to increase the anxiety accidentally. Thank you very much for your help, much appreciated!
Janie Bowthorpe
No, an increase in T3 doesn’t mean a decrease in T4. We would only decrease T4 only if our free T4 is getting at the top, which could cause the body to start decreasing that high amount by making it convert to RT3.
Also, it looks like your T3 is a total T3, not a free T3? Totals usually see a whole number result like you posted, whereas free usually shows a decimal number.
Jeff
Hi Janie, sorry, that’s the lab’s results of of 290 pg/dL, but an online conversion calculator seems to be 2.9 pg/mL for the Free T3. My Total T3 is 81. So looks like I need to increase the T3, but leave the T4 the same since it seems around optimal, I think. Thanks again!
Katherine Miller
Hi Janie, I so relate to your journey. Unfortunately, I was following another FB site too long. I was diagnosed in 2021 with Hypo, but may of had it for years before. I came across your website in my research while on Synthroid, but the medical profession had me fooled with keeping me just on Synthroid. I hooked up with an Endo Oct 2023 and she fusses, but she listens to me and is very receptive to the NDT route and assisting in my journey in making me feel better. Since then, I have gotten your book, read the website ad naseum, watch You Tubes you are on, and read the blog messages. Although my journey has not been as long as yours (20 years), I relate with your anger after your 20 year struggle. I am currently working my way up to 3 grains Armour, as I just started 2 grains Armour. I should be on 3 grains by end of Aug. 2023. Lastly, thank you for all you do and have done. You are an inspiration!! Your message and patient-to patient advocancy is magnificant! In any event, I am having a problem locating an actual form to do the Coaching. I am not sure if your are currently Coaching or on a break from it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Your kinds words mean a lot to me. Thank u. I’m taking a break from coaching. But have other plans to do it differently. Will announce when that occurs.
Angel
Does anyone know what is going on with Cytomel? I got a refill at the end of July and had labs done. Same dose dropped me from 4.0 free T3 to 3.4 free T3 in a week of taking it. It is now chalky, super salty and not absorbing. It makes my stomach burn along with my neck and head. Hashi’s is starting to flare and had a panic attack today that I haven’t had in years. Contacted pharmacy and said all liothyronine is now liothyronine sodium. Messaged Pfizer but don’t expect to hear back from them. Could it be overloaded with iodine or sodium and blocking the liothyronine action/absorption? Would taking potassium counteract that? Thanks so much if you can reply. And I thank the Lord above for this site and info since 2008!
Angel
I switched from porcine to T3/T4 synthetic years ago. I thought synthetics would be stable but unfortunately I found out generics constantly reformulate too. Now on only name brand synthetics (Synthroid/Cytomel), I got a Cytomel refill several months ago that was different and am not absorbing it well at all. When I looked up Cytomel on dailymed.nlm.nih.gov it lists Pfizer and Physicians Total Care Inc. as packagers. Pfizer lists no fillers and Physicians Total Care Inc. lists fillers. Both are name brand Cytomel. The fillers are the same as the generics that were not working. How do I find out which version of Cytomel I get or avoid getting when both are the Cytomel brand? How do I break down the calcium sulfate, talc, etc. to actually absorb hormones? Waiting on new lab results which I keep as middle range Free T4 and upper range Free T3.
Janie Bowthorpe
One thing: be careful thinking you got “Cytomel”. Pharmacies are notorious for switching your T3 to an off brand. So when you get your bottle of “cytomel” check the abbreviation of what you got after the mg. It can be an abbreviation for an off brand. And sometimes, they put CYTOMEL, which is then followed by the abbreviation of the off brand. I had to make it clear to my pharmacy that I do NOT want to be switched, that I do want the Cytomel brand name by Pfizer, NOT something else. And you still have to check before walking out with the bottle. They gave me Norton, not Cytomel lately.
Colleen
I’m new to your site and encouraged that there is hope on the horizon; have an appointment with an ‘iodine literate’ doctor in 3 months. But I came here to say I’m so sorry for your loss and admire your courage for making your well being a priority. I lost a daughter 7 years ago and know the pain of grief. It changes your life in such an unexpected way, but God has been with me on my healing journey and I pray He will be there for yours.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Colleen. I’m also sorry for you loss. 🙁 It’s a challenge.
Joni Adams
Hello Janie!! So glad to see you back!! Very sorry for all you have been through the last few years.
I haven’t been here in a while since I had been doing great. I was diagnosed with Hashi and low cortisol back in 2009 and was a wreck. You helped me tremendously and I got my life back. So grateful for your book and all the valuable info. I credit you for all of my recovery.
I had been on Armour thyroid ever since 2009. Three years ago (3/2021) I started having these periods of symptoms that resemble thyroid storm. Horrible hyper symptoms, even though everything shows I am hypo. The extreme hyper symptoms lasts about 3 to 7 days and then it is totally over and gone. These hyper episodes come on about every 6 months. My thyroid labs always show low range FT3 and FT4. TPO has been over 200 these 3 years. Before that it was under 50.
3 months ago I had another hyper episode. I totally stop the thyroid meds and all the symptoms went away. But I am so extremely hypo and TSH is now 31 after the 3 months of no meds. But I cannot add even 15mg of Armour without experiencing hyper symptoms. I tried a couple of times and very slowly. I know this all seems to point to adrenals. So I did the saliva test and it seems ok to me.
Saliva Cortisol – Waking (W) Within range 2.65 ng/mL 1.6 – 4.6
Saliva Cortisol – W+30 min. Below range 3.62 ng/mL 3.7 – 8.2
Saliva Cortisol – W+60 min. Within range 2.96 ng/mL 2.3 – 5.3
Saliva Cortisol – Afternoon High end of range 1.39 ng/mL 0.4 – 1.5
Saliva Cortisol – Night Within range 0.41 ng/mL 0 – 0.9
My metabolized cortisol is 1802—below range 2750-6500
Of course, I haven’t been on thyroid meds for 3 months when I did this test, so the low metabolized cortisol makes sense in relation to that.
My Dr thought that symptoms could be coming from the T3, so she started me on a trail of Synthroid. After 3 weeks on 75mcg, I had another hyper episode lasting 3 days. So now I stopped that and once again on no thyroid meds and getting so hypo. But zero hyper-ness now. Thank God…those symptoms are horrible. Much worse than being hypo.
My Dr. has now quit on me. I don’t know what direction to turn now. Not sure if it is adrenals or some reaction to the meds. Or maybe I should be looking at something else like blood sugar issues. Why would I still have these hyper episodes on synthroid only? Does that seem reasonable? My RT3 is low as well.
Thank you for your thoughts. I tried to keep this short.
Janie Bowthorpe
I see you did the overkill saliva cortisol test. lol. Honestly, we found the 4-point test to be enough. (To those reading this, this one is enough: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/). But no, the results aren’t okay. Compare them to what is on this page for saliva results: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values. Your ranges will be different, but you’ll get the drift. And you also need to test Aldosterone, as that can cause hyper-like symptoms with T3, as well if it has fallen. We also test sodium and potassium to prove it’s fallen.
You also just referred to ‘being on Armour”. Being on Armour is not enough. You have to be “optimal” on Armour. That’s different. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And if you never have been optimal, it causes this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling/
No, no. T3 didn’t cause that.
Keith
Janie,
I very recently discovered your site and ordered your book, great info! I desperately need help, and have a couple questions on T3. Background: 10 years synthroid; PPIs for a few years and stopped, and I guess synth got absorbed much more. I slowly got a few+ hyper symptoms (now I’m more educated), but Doctor didn’t put 2+2 together and didn’t blood test for thyroid changes for 1 year! TSH was .12, FT3 3.1 pg/ml, FT4 1.9 ng/dl. Misdiagnosis had me chasing cardio, gastro, neuro, etc for varied symptoms, and benzo for anxiety attacks. Finally trying to fix this disaster, went from 175mcg synth, 150, 125, now 100 plus 5 Cytomel. Last few weeks when on 125 coming down to 100, I seem sicker and more constantly ill than the past year during the hyper. I also seem to get medium level anxiety/stomach tension after a couple days on the T3, is that ok, just a phase? I still have some fatigue, tinnitus, and eye/eye socket pressure/fatigue/pain that also seems to be short circuiting to my brain and triggers anxiety. Instead of symptoms fading, it seems I still have some hyper symptoms, and now additional hypo ones. Endo thinks I should be ok, and it’s all in my head. Also, how quickly can I get a reliable thyroid blood panel test after starting the T3? I want to check my situation as soon as possible. Thanks so much!
Keith
Sorry, forgot to mention, the Cytomel T3 seems to be giving me acid reflux now into upper throat nearly constant. I was fairly good with Apple Cider Vinegar before meals while on Synthroid, but not now with the T3, any ideas? Thanks so much!
Janie Bowthorpe
Time to get back to that ACV.
Keith
Thanks, but I haven’t stopped taking it. Several months ago started 2 tablespoons ACV in 8 oz water 3 times a day before meals. It worked pretty decent before when on synthroid, but after a couple days after starting T3 acid reflux hit me and ACV no longer worked. So have others had acid reflux pop up when starting T3?
Janie Bowthorpe
Have not seen it happen with T3…unless someone is underdosed.
Janie Bowthorpe
Well, first of all, if your free T3 was 3.1 on Synthroid, that is typical of what happens when you are forced to get T3 from conversion alone. 3.1 is too low! And since you mentioned hyper, plus anxiety since starting T3, you might want to consider ordering this: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ and get your doc to prescribe a blood test for aldosterone. It’s common for those on nothing but T4 to end up with adrenal stress. All this is in the book, by the way. 🙂
Barrie
Janie
I have struggled with Armour since January of this year. As I told you in a former comment, I am not happy with any dosage of this new formula. For me it is a heart attack in the making. I live in a small town and no doctor here has been able to deal with all my side effects. I have read that some people are getting their pills from Canada. Did Armour change the formula in Canada? How do I get my doctor to send my RX to the “exchange” group so they can give it to a doctor in Canada, then that doctor passes it on to a pharmacy there, and the pharmacy fills it and sends it to me in the mail?
I was doing great on Armour 30mg every morning, since 2016. Now the side effects are overwhelming. Doctors here are not up to speed on current medical news.
Thank you for your help.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Barrie. Sorry what you are experiencing. 🙁 To explore all possible causes of what you are going through, this may not be about a change in Armour. It can be about now having stressed adrenals, or having rising RT3.
Check this out in the exploration: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3/
Harold Read
Janie,
My wife Judy has had Hashimoto’s for 30 years, and was on T4-Only until recently; she is now taking 90mg Armor. I HAD taken her Armor up to 150mg WITHOUT testing her Cortisol or Aldosterone — my mistake. Her FT3 & FT4 were Above Range, and it became obvious that I had to test her Cortisol and Aldosterone. We did — they are both seriously Low. I know that we must address her Low Cortisol and Low Aldosterone before trying to get her Frees optimal, and we have taken her Armor back down to 90mg, in preparation for that.
A few months ago, we found a New Doctor — he recently finished a Fellowship in Functional Medicine, but he has never treated Low Cortisol or Low Aldosterone — Judy is his test case. He is VERY Open Minded, and so far, he has agreed to prescribe what I need, to treat Judy’s Low Cortisol, using the protocols from your book, STTM. I think he will also be willing to use your protocol for using Florinex to treat her Low Aldosterone. We’ll see him day after tomorrow for that — July 17.
I have already bought All 3 of your books. I have a good understanding of your protocol for treating Low Cortisol — as a stand-alone treatment. But, now that we know her Aldosterone is ALSO low, I have some unanswered Questions. I have read the section in your book on Aldosterone about 10 times, but I could use some additional guidance.
Is it best to treat Aldosterone FIRST? Or, is it best to treat Both Aldosterone and Cortisol at the Same Time?
Start Florinef FIRST? then add in the Hydrocortisone? We have Not started either one, yet.
I understand that Florinef also has Some GLUCOcorticoid action — and I may need to use a lower dose of HC if using both at the same time — reduce the HC by How Much?
I have found NO schedule for weaning off Florinef — in your book, or anywhere on the Internet — some suggestions would help.
How do we know WHEN to wean off the Optimal dose of Florinef? Any suggestions would be appreciated, Harold T Read.
Janie Bowthorpe
Aldosterone and cortisol can be treated at the same time. Yes, because of aldosterone’s glucocorticoid content, it can mean slightly less HC is needed. Slight is key. But not everyone needs to lower their HC with aldosterone. 25mg is still the perfect starting dose for women, though most end up on 27.5 or 30.
Weaning off Florinef is in the book. We lower it by very small amounts starting with the afternoon dose first. We wean off Florinef when 1) we’ve been on HC awhile, 2) which allows us to be optimal with the free T3 and totally out of our hypo state, 3) when we feel GREAT, and 4) are NOT under any heavy stress.
Harold Read
Janie,
Thank you for your prompt reply. Your clear and detailed info on HOW MUCH to reduce the HC is very helpful. I have a VERY clear understanding of the HydroCortisone procedure.
Unfortunately, I am still confused about the ORDER of things, When treating Aldosterone and Cortisol at the Same Time — Can you tell me —
* Which drug do you START First? Hydrocortisone? or Florinef? Does it matter?
* Which drug do you WEAN OFF First? Hydrocortisone? or Florinef?
Clear answers to those 2 questions should have me ready to proceed with getting Judy treated. Your book is a life-saver. Thank you for all you do, Harold Read.
Janie Bowthorpe
It doesn’t matter.
Weaning HC first, Florinef last. It’s all in the book and keep referring to it. :). I created something bigger than I, so that’s why I push reading. 🙂
milagros
Hello Jenny.I I’m a little lost with the lab tests I had done. As I had told you at the beginning, I was taking THYROVANZ 125 mg, as I was still hypothyroid, I increased 15 mcg of synthetic T3, and the results were 5.2 (ref: 2.3 – 4.2). This could have revealed a problem with my adrenal glands, so what I did over time was remove the synthetic T3 to see what lab results I would get with just the 125 mg of thyrovanz, and the results were from the free T3: 4.28 (ref: 2.30 – 4.20). It seems very strange to me to continue being so hypothyroid, with ALL the symptoms.
Then I had the saliva cortisol analysis done in the only laboratory they do here in my city, whose reference values ??are:
(8 AM: Up to 0.69)
(11 PM: Up to 0.43)
and the results were:
* salivary cortisol 9:30 a.m. = 0.55
* salivary cortisol 2:20 p.m. = 0.27
*salivary cortisol 7:20 p.m. = 0.22
*salivary cortisol 1:15 a.m= 0.5
Seric iron: 129.00 (ref: 30-170)
Ferritin:
82.90 (ref: 10 – 291.00)
Transferrin:
210.00 (ref 250 – 400)
Saturation index: 44 (ref: 20 – 45%)
I don’t know… I don’t understand if I have a cortisol problem or not. But my T3 results don’t make sense with what I feel. Why could it be? I’m very lost, I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I need to do the aldosterone test, because I’m waiting for my period to pass.
Afterwards I also have these analyses:
DHEA = 197 (ref: 35 – 430)
FREE TESTOSTERONE= 2.6 (ref: 2 – 8.5)
VITAMIN B12= 583 (ref:210 -910)
I don’t know what I should do, I’m a little lost… whether to switch to t4 and t3 synthetic since thyrovanz doesn’t seem to work. Or if cortisol should work even if it is not reflected in the laboratory.
Just in case I clarify that I am a woman! and I’m from Argentina… I’m translating everything as best I can. Hope it’s understandable!
sam
milagros i see you said your thyrovanz wasnt working . i am trying to find out if others have also noticed thyrovanz has stopped working? it worked great up until about a year ago now have gained over 20 pounds and heart rate very slow again too.
i really hope it does work and maybe a bad batch or because is in a room that can get up to 79 degrees i kept some in freezer too . i wish still worked because dont know what else to do. have been drinking milk with koll marine collagen powder from wild caught fish for past several months too .
thank you jamie so much for yourwoderful website book and help
Janie Bowthorpe
Two things: 1) no matter what you are on, if you don’t truly understand and get optimal, it will backfire. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/. Read every word. Don’t just skim.
2) Bovine thyroid has no regulation whatsoever. So over the years, we’ve seen problems here and there. But I would first consider #1.
sam
i get overwhelmed not sure i understand it all but will try again thanks you again jamie!
ps about the not for weight loss i wish i knew what it was, before was so great to lose 20 pounds plus heart rate was up so i figured it was the thyrovanz and before that the thryrogold.
although i wish that someday can s top taking anything. and that thyroid will start working well again. one dr suggested that till his boss spoke up
milagros
Hi Samuel how are you? Thyrovanz is the only NDT I have ever taken because it is the only one I can get without a prescription. I just took it 3 months ago and the truth is that I didn’t notice ANY changes, I only noticed an improvement in energy and temperature when I added synthetic T3 to the treatment, then I removed it due to the high laboratory results. But now I’m considering stopping thyrovanz and switching to synthetic T4 and T3, I’m just waiting to find the root of what’s happening to me so I can start the treatment properly and not suffer another frustration.
sam
hi milagros if you just started taking thyrovanz just a few months ago it could be because thyrovanz has changed and is not working like it used to. i noticed maybe several months ago to a year ago thats was gaining weight and pulse rate low.if only we could find out what is going on with thyrovanz but there is no phone number to call or email to email.
it worked really well for a few years the same thing happened with. thyrogold. i did not want to take t 3 becuase i do not trust pharmaceutical companies . t4 was terrible [ synthroid] the only thing dr would prescribe
sam
forgot to add had been trying various amounts thyrovanz over the past 2 years 65 mg , sometimes none , but mostly 225 mg now 525 mg still cant lose weight and heartrate is under 60. also tried forefront health a little bit anyone had success with that? i prefer thryovanz if it works or thryogold if it worked , because from cows form new zealand pasture raised
Janie Bowthorpe
Do know that all bovine OTC products come from the same source, even if one company claims theirs is the best. We have not found the latter to be true.
Also, please understand that thyroid products are not weightloss products. There can be other reasons to have issues losing weight.
sam
i didn’t know all come from same source , i sure hope can be trusted !
Janie Bowthorpe
From all our experiences, what happened to your free T3 going that high fits an adrenal issue, whether low cortisol, high cortisol, or low aldosterone. It’s called pooling. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling/ And sadly, since you only got two times, you won’t know what to do between 8am and 11pm as far as treatment.
milagros
I can’t find in my city that they do another saliva cortisol study… is there no other way to find out how my cortisol is? If it is low or high? What other option do I have? What do people do in this situation?
I really believe that 2 years ago I did have very high cortisol because I had a lot of anxiety and I was in a constant state of alert, every sound scared me or I had many anxiety attacks. Afterwards that decreased and today I hardly feel anxiety, I am totally without energy in depression, apathetic. I really THINK I had high cortisol a long time ago. and now it’s DOWN. But I don’t know, Janie, what would you recommend? In these weeks I still have to test my estrogen and progesterone, FSH and LH, and aldosterone levels. What else could you do to me?
I forgot to mention my T4, in the first study when I had the 15mcg of synthetic T3 it came out within the range. and in the second study when I removed it, it came out 1.65 (ref: 0.8 – 1.5)… wouldn’t it have to do with a reverse T3 as well?
milagros
Janie also wanted to ask you if I can get your book in virtual format? Since I am in Argentina and international shipping is very expensive. 🙁
milagros
Janie Sorry for writing again, another question arose! 🙁 I’m not understanding what the saliva cortisol analysis should be like, because I wrote 4 DOSES of saliva done at 4 different times… When you say that I only have 2 doses, what do you mean?
milagros
Hi Jeny, I’m telling you that I’m doing the sortisol saliva laboratory, and my question is: if my sleep has changed, that is, if I sleep late and do the first saliva at 10 pm and the other 4 hours later, and the other in the afternoon… do I do the one at night JUST BEFORE going to sleep? or following the 4 hours later? That is, type 22 23 hours?
milagros
Hi Jenny! Tomorrow I have to do my saliva cortisol laboratory test, but I have a question. From what I read on this page, if I have changed my sleep at night, that is, if I get up at 11 am, that would be my MORNING.
4 hours later the other kit, and another in the afternoon. But the one that confuses me is the one at night… if I fall asleep around 3 am, do I do it at that time? even though it’s been more than 4 hours since last?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
If you are happy with your morning being 11 am, that is your morning. Same with the 3am being your bedtime. If we are not happy with our wakeup time, or our go to sleep time, we test at the times we want to wake up (example: 8am, or 11pm.), and will treat those times.
Bobbi
Where can one find a LDN prescriber in De its one of the states that doctors will not prescribe . They look at it as its for addicts .
Janie Bowthorpe
Doctors will prescribe there. You just haven’t found the right one.
Janie Bowthorpe
Do a google search for something like “Website LDN prescribers”. I’m not where I can access one.
Ivy
Hi Janie
For about 2-3 years now I’ve been reacting poorly to T3 specifically. . After Covid started I was reacting poorly to armor and had to switch from NDT to separate T4/T3 and after so many trials and working so heavily on just about everything I cannot understand why I’m reacting to my T3. I am on tirosint sol and do not react poorly.
It seems to be my fillers. After being on any kind of T3 even on compounded for a maximum of 2 weeks I have to then switch to another brand or try something different. I could even go back and forth from a brand I was using prior and then back again as long as I can switch my fillers I’m able to tolerate T3 most times. However, this is exhausting with no answers. I have worked strongly on gut health, cortisol, and reverse T3 with little to no success because I know of you react poorly to T3 it could be these things… nothing explains why I can’t tolerate it. I am negative for Sibo thru a 3 hr breast test. Negative for hpylori and most gut bacteria. High zonulin which indicates leaky gut but even after being strictly gluten dairy free oat free process foods free I only cook at home never eat out my food intake is spotless and introducing l glutamine and leaky gut healing foods and supplement I STILL have the same problem after two weeks I can no longer tolerate T3 and would have to switch again. I was told there could possibly be some sort of immune system issue with T3. Could this be true? I’ve never met anyone who goes thru this. I stay aaay from histamine foods and because of this issues I was diagnosed with mcas but I do not react poorly to any of my surroundings it is only when I take T3.. mmmm. I’m stuck and not sure what to do. I am positive for mold but have been taking activated charcoal which does nothing for me I don’t feel a difference and ebv. The regimen my physician has put me on I don’t feel a difference. I’m stuck ???? I could really use you you help because I have followed your steps for many years and nothing explains why I become so sensitive. I will have awful joint pains, allergies, “cortisol like issues” with saliva cortisol showing nothing of concern my points will be off by just a a bit while I’m feeling extremely ill. Almost when you take microcrystalline cellulose is how I would feel. Awful just awful. So to avoid further damaging myself I’ll switch T3 brand I’ll feel rest and digest again until about two weeks I’m backs to feeling flight or fight. So not sure what to do anymore. I do saunas often, I workout without over exerting myself (makes me feel good especially in the mornings) and I will also notice no matter the dosage of my T3 my cortisol will remain off. I’m unable to increase as well due to my symptoms one of them being everything looks “pixelated and bright” almost the outlines of things around me are pixelated. xx
Janie Bowthorpe
Reacting to T3 is usually always about what the T3 reaction reveals: stressed adrenals, whether low cortisol, high cortisol, or low aldosterone. We’ve seen this for years now. So there’s how to test it, as it’s NOT about blood testing: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/. But you can test aldosterone via blood.
Ivy
Thank you, Janie. I appreciate your response. Yes I can’t even increase. I never had this problem previously on T3 before though. I was on a very high dose and thriving. Idk what changed and even back then I had cortisol/adrenals issues so it’s hard for me to believe it sometimes that it can be that because my symptoms are so different now. But I’ve literally been tackling everything. I’ll look more into the adrenals again. Many blessings <3
Deedee
What about Niva NDT some people are seeing? Any word about the fate of NatureThroid?
Janie Bowthorpe
Never heard of Niva.
Alma
Hello. I would appreciate it greatly if you have any experience personally or have heard of other others experience with Thyrogold. I’m thinking of switching from armor to Thyrogold simply because it’s a cleaner product. My concern is the GMO presence in Armour Thyroid.
Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
You just have to accept that any bovine NDT is not regulated, and at any moment, your results can change. So it’s imperative to keep an eye on labs and get them optimal. FT3, FT4 and RT3.
sam
dera alma
i took thyro-gold for 5 or more years at first it worked great. then it stopped working the capsules were white . and i gained weight again and found out somehow that for others also it had stopped working. found out here [ thank you jamie] about thyrovanz maybe 4 years ago?. it worked really well up until abut a year ago now gained 20 pounds again!
so am at a loss what to do. taking more thryovanz 400 mg but still gaining weight .
sam
alma that was what was importnat to me too- staying away from GMOS ! thyro-gold and thryovanz supposed to be form cows raised in newzeland 100% grass fed pesticide free pasture raised cows grass-fed .i hope thye all can be trusted . i tried nutrimeds but dont think it worked , they-gold stopped working 5 yeasr ago or so now thyrogold not working it did up until a year or so ago. anyone else experience that and what have you tried that works?
anyone try ancestral beef thyroid? it seems to hav e a lot of liver. i would rather continue the thyrovnaz because it worked well
thank you jamie all you do!
Janie Bowthorpe
A lot of people are not impressed with the liver added to beef thyroid by ancestral. Liver is always high in copper.
sam
thank you jamie i was worried about the liver too,
my typo beofre ‘ they-gold stopped working 5 yeasr ago or so now thyrogold not working it did up until a year or so ago. anyone else experience that and what have you tried that works?’
i meant now thyrovanz not working ! anyone use thyrogold and it works now?[ tammy was so nice woudl always try to help with questions ] or thyrovanz? [ i tkae thryovoanz now but isnt working seems .no one to email or call a t thryovanz am at loss what to do now. thansk you again so much jamie! and hope you are feeling little bit better
sam
alma thyrogold stopped working for me and some others 5 yeasr ago or so now thyrovanz not working ! it did up until a year or so ago. anyone else experience that and what have you tried that works?
gained 20 pounds back! both worked rellay well at first no idea what happened . me too about GMOS
Gianluca
HI Janie
Have you seen a rise in TSH or a drop in temps when dairy is eaten 30 to 60min after taking NDT?
Janie Bowthorpe
Haven’t.
Gianluca
Thank you Janie.
Basically, eating dairy have not effect on NDT absorption, unlike Calcium supplements
Dawn
Hi Janie,
I am pretty new here and damn glad to be here!
My sympathies for your hearts loss of a loved one. Never easy.
I had one question, I did the 4 vial cortisol test thru ZRT (we use them at work!) and found that my levels were backwards! Low in the morning and progressing to higher at bedtime. Can you explain why that is? I am post menopause and still have all my various organs 🙂
I will be doing new tests in the coming months as I have been addressing some other issues. I am waiting on pins and needles for your STTM book to arrive actually!
Thank you,
Dawn
Janie Bowthorpe
Dawn, there are a variety of patterns for stressed adrenals. Yours is just low then higher and higher. So it’s imperative to lower the highs, which will help raise the low morning over time. Good info in the book on ways to lower highs.
Michelle
Hoping Janie sees this. You and the tireless sacrifice for the victims of the medical ‘industry’ i.e. best selling products are sick people who a live long time, have saved my life and I mean that quite literally. Won’t bore with details. I have been on this site for several years and the success is measured by not needing to be here alot as the assistance was so remarkably successful. But today I saw your blog and I want to say it is OK never to be the same after grief. The prefix ‘dis’ [ formerly ‘des’ ] means to be cut in twain, the absence of or permanent void. DESpair. The pair is cut away – and that cut is a very large wound to heal. It is exhausting to suffer tragedy. I liken it to barely being able to tread water in a toxic pond of sludge. Not only being unable to breathe, but every cell in my body soaking up the poison. Or walking around in a black box that no sunlight could ever penetrate – my heart so dead I take my pulse to see if I am still alive – but needn’t worry because in ten minutes I will be on my knees again next to the unfolded laundry gasping in sheer agony. They say that time heals and it is true. What they don’t tell you is how long that time takes and then when you realize that the bear has left off mauling your sorry carcass – nothing about knowing that the bear is gone, will help you to get an ambulance. The cup must be drunk to the dregs. Only then will it be empty AND ready to fill. Grief is like a sharp knife. It can carve us into larger more beautiful designs. Thanks for all you have done and will do. Hug.
PS. Everybody tell someone you love them. Always make up before bedtime. You never know what the morning will bring.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Michelle. I see your comment. 🙂 And as someone who lost the physical presence of someone I deeply loved, I wouldn’t at all say I will be healed. It’s more about “learning to carry the loss, the wound, with me better.” I’m in the better phase, even with the pain of missing the physical presence of someone I deeply loved, who I was, and still am, totally entangled with in that mutual love as in quantum physics.
Barrie Maartin
Janie,
Hello again,
Since my last comments to you I have FINALLY found the information I have needed for years. I don’t know what happened to the Armour thyroid formula, but since January I have been trying to find out why I am suffering after 8 years on the pills. After I had surgery for thyroid cancer in 2015 I have had to deal with 5 doctors. None of them ever mentioned my hypoglycemia. Recently, I found several articles on various websites that helped me deal with all my problems.
American Thyroid Assn: Diet vs Disease-Hypoglycemia and Hypothyroidism: How These Two Impact Each Other” by Ashley Marcine 6-09-2023
pharmacist.com “Avoiding Drug-Induced Hypoglycemia in the Older Adult” 10-16-2019
Asssociated Signs and Symptoms of Drug-Induced Hypoglycemia 10-16-2019
Perhaps some of this information will be of help to to others. Even if you don’t have hypoglycemia, it can become drug induced without you realizing it. I made copies of these articles and took them to all my doctors so they will have a copy for their records.
Now that I have my hypoglycemia under control again, I had a meeting with my surgeon and he gave me a new prescription for the Armour pills, reducing the dosage from 30mg 2X daily, to now 15mg 2X daily. Whatever Armour has done to the formula, I won’t have to consider changing to levothyroxin and Synthroid. I can continue Armour, unless and until they make another crazy formula change without notice.
Thank you for all you have done over so many years to help all of us who are just ordinary people and need all the help we can get. Now I am waiting to see if any grandkids have inherited any of my problems….
George (Jim) Hebbard PE
One of the complaints about variations in Natural vs synthetic hormone replacement is consistency. My thyroid gland was removed 8 years ago, and I find the need for thyroid hormone makeup varies about three time the FDA 10% alarm point. Predictability is important for me, not actual composition.
I am sorry for your loss. I’m 81, and recently diagnosed with Emotional Detachment Syndrome stemming from family problems when I was 2 and 3. I have lived my life trying to do “the right thing” which is not the same as doing the right thing from Love.
Barrie Martin
Janie, I have depended on your info since 2015 when I was diagnosed with tyroid cancer. Tests showed I also had the tall cell variant. After surgery and a huge shot of radiated iodine, I was advised to see our local doctor/expert. The first thing he did was put me on levothoroxin at a high dose. I had devastating side effects and asked about options. He said there are no other options. After 14 months of misery, I discovered the desiccated pig thyroid tablets. Tried a couple and finally settled on Armour because I felt closer to normal. After all these years, I have found that Armour does not work for me anymore, WHY? Also, I found info on the net saying the people with the tall cell variant should not take desiccated thyroid. It can cause more problems, including distant metastases. While on Armour, I have had left-neck lymph nodes removed, 3 surgeries for cancer tumors near my collarbone, and breast cancer. When did the info regarding these problems first appear on the Armour web site or brochures? There is also a very long lab-test article, I have just found after hours of searching the net, which is saying
people with tall cell should not take desiccated thyroid. Does the FDA know this info? When was it made public? My doctor saw the printout I brought to him and he was amazed. He said he has never seen that before and he has been prescribing DPT for many years. What’s going on?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Barrie. Armour works. You just have to fully read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/ All of it. Don’t skim. All of it. And having heard of a lot of nonsense over the years, I have never heard that those with Tall Cell shouldn’t take NDT. Taking NDT after having had cancer has always been about thoroughly suppressing the TSH, not about not taking NDT. Seems odd to me.
Michelle
It wouldn’t be the active hormone. It would be the “inactive” ingredients. Check them out and know that microcrystalline cellulose is a real problem. [ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18782634/ ] Since STTM is the reason I am still alive, I will tell you a story that might help. I was on NP thyroid [ generic for Armour ] and getting sicker with hypothyroid symptoms. My blood work was bad in many areas, I felt like I was going to explode. My heart rate was usually through the roof, but always exhausted. I would see this as a need to up my dose, which would alleviate the symptoms and then they would return. Up the dose again. Same – until I was on 6 grains and the symptoms kept returning. I thought I was going to have a stroke. I got to speak with Tammy. She said get the RT tested and I read about that in Janie’s book. Well, it was 21 which is not high compared to other results I have heard, but I went on the T3 only and within a couple of weeks I felt fantastic. That was 6 years ago. Get your RT tested. It should be in low single digits. Also read this: https://www.integrativeholistichealth.org/information/dangers-of-microcrystalline-cellulose-filler-in-pharmaceuticals/.
Whitney Defoor
Janie,
I am sorry for your loss. I know how painful and life shattering it can be.
I was hoping you could solve a mystery for me.
I was recently very underdosed on my thyroid meds (honestly due to a bad batch of Thyrogold as far as i can tell). Anyway, it’s been a little over two weeks since i increased my meds (like by a lot!!) to approximating what they should be at. I have seen recent labs and I know I am not underdosed (at least in the eyes of contemporary medicine), but i know i am not optimal.
Anyway, for the past week I have been experiencing on and off sweats/chills/hot/shivering. The worse part is waking in the early morning feeling so cold, not able to warm myself up, and not able to get back to sleep. Actually, upon going to bed i also experiencing cycling between hot and cold… i am really not sleeping well.
I have had experiences in the past when I added t3 to my t4 regimen and I was waking up in the middle of the night with deep chills.
Can you give me some idea what may be happening? I feel it is related to my adrenals…. but it is all confusing.
Janie Bowthorpe
Order this: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ and order Aldosterone via blood and from Ulta here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/ (scroll down to see Ulta)
Lynn
Janie, Hope this finds you doing well. So sorry for your loss, they are so hard. I lost 2 family members before the plandemic was announced (one in late 2019 and one in January 2020) I am writing because I’ve been through all the meds (I have all your books – updated books are great) and for the last 5 years was happy on compounded T3 using acidophilus as a filler. My pharmacy recently was sold to Strive pharmacy. My script was due and my old pharmacy was still active during the merger taking the orders and sending them to Strive. They had my script refill from my doctor but Strive is stating that they could not use that as a filler because it is not “inert”. They say the FDA bulletin told them to stop using acidophilus. Strive did not consult me first, just put in avicel and sent it to me. Five years ago I had a bad reaction to that filler (which they state they never heard of). I didn’t go to the ER, just figured out the cause and stopped using it so I don’t have “proof” of the bad reaction (like they are questioning my bad reaction and statement of allergy). I asked for a refund but they are pushing back and want to try another filler (which will be my second refill – I lost the first one because of the avicel filler in the pills they sent me). I offered to send back but they don’t want them sent back. They will let me know on Monday which filler they are thinking of using (they suggested something like rice filler might work). I don’t know if that would work or not (I cannot have gluten, lactose, soy, avicel etc). Have you heard of rice filler instead of acidophilus or possibly another filler that would be good? Do you know if what they are stating about the FDA’s suggestion about “inert” fillers is true and has an effect on the T3? I called another compounding pharmacy and they said they could use acidophilus. Strive states if a pharmacy is saying that, the pharmacy is not using strict guidelines put out by the FDA. I don’t know about that, it was working for me. My dilemma is to go ahead with the filler they come up with and use the 2nd refill, or not use them and move my script to another pharmacy for refill #2 using acidophilus – and try to get a refund by disputing with my credit card. They also mentioned they might have to use time release but I’ve been on immediate release and don’t want that to change but I think they may state the filler they want to use only works with time release. To go through this is so stressful and I need to have some ideas of how to talk to them on Monday when they tell me their “ideas” of how to move forward. I wanted a refund and to move to another pharmacy but they are not cooperative at this point. I take 3 caps of 25mcg per day so these are not cheap compounded capsules. Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Lynn. I’m thinking you need to do more research about this online by looking up “FDA approved insert fillers” or such and see what you find. Even though many patients have done fine with acidophilus for years, you just may need to look for the list of insert fillers and choose one to avoid this again. Or like you said, find another compounder. As far as rice filler, yes I have heard of it being used, but I can never predict what will work for each individual. So looking that up for you might be a good idea, too.
Now as far as time-release, if I was using compounded, I would personally stomp my foot against time release. There is too much suspicion, which makes sense to me, that the “slowness” could mean some of the T3 is slow enough to arrive in your small intestine, then you pee or poop it out. Even Dr. John C. Lowe thought that, and I admired him greatly. We need every bit of that T3.
The reason they don’t refund is the liability that the capsules have somehow been contaminated by being touched. It’s understandable.
Harold Read
Janie, Thanks again for all that you do for us — I have been reading your website for 8 years. My wife has Hashimoto’s, and is suffering terribly from years of T4-Only. I finally found a new doctor for her 2 months ago, and he knows about the importance of Free T3 — he prescribed Armour for my wife on the first visit — yes! But, the starting dose was only 60mg, and she is NO better after 6 weeks — No surprise there. The problem — he said to WAIT 6 WEEKS to test her Free T3 & Free T4, after starting the Armour. This has been the longest 6 weeks of our lives — she feels terrible. My Question — what is your recommendation for the right amount of time to wait to re-test FT3 & FT4, after increasing the dosage of Armour? The thought of waiting 6 weeks before doing the next blood draw, and then 3 more weeks for a follow-up appt is terrifying for us — it is taking too long. Can we Re-test labs sooner than 6 weeks after increasing the dosage of Armour?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Harold. I think a key point was missed: a “starting dose” is never, ever the ideal dose. It’s just a literal starting dose. It’s a starting dose to allow one’s body to get used to the power of T3. Then 1/2 grain raises occur every two weeks until in the 2-3 grain area for retesting. The goal is to get the free T3 optimal. You and your dear wife badly, badly need to order this book and read to become informed, then see if you can educate this terrible doctor: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/ And because she’s been on a lousy treatment for so long, she may have other problems which need to be discovered and treated. Iron, B12, Vitamin D, adrenals, etc. Get the book.
Harold Read
Janie, thank you for the prompt reply. I don’t think I made myself clear. We have a NEW doctor, and he is very good. He is NOT the one who kept my wife on T4 only for years — he gladly put Judy on Armour during her first visit. He already knows that TSH is worthless, and that T4 only does not work. He is Light Years ahead of any other doctor we’ve tried. But he is NOT perfect. He wants to RE-test FT3 and FT4 BEFORE increasing the dose of Armour. I repeat — He wants to Wait 6 Weeks, then RE-test FT3 and FT4 BEFORE increasing the dose of Armour. If I am to change how he wants to do things, I must be Very Clear about what your recommendation is — precisely. I can’t just start increasing the dose without his approval. Are you saying to increase Armour by 1/2 grain every 2 weeks with NO TESTING?? If yes — then when ARE we supposed to test?
In your reply of April 11, you stated, “Then 1/2 grain raises occur every two weeks until in the 2-3 grain area for retesting.” I don’t mean to be dense, but exactly what does that mean? Two grains or Three? I already know that everybody will be different — I already know that. So, when are we supposed to Test the Frees? Is it based on Improved Symptoms? I am struggling to follow what you are saying. Harold Read.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Believe me, no doctor out there is caught up with what we know, even if they are caught up with a few things. So you will need to see if he’s teachable. What he’s doing wrong is leaving her on the starting dose, not only for 6 horrible weeks, but thinking that’s also the dose to test on. No to both! I’m sickened she’s had to go through that.
What he doesn’t seem to understand is that by taking NDT (with it’s T3 in it as well), it suppresses her own production of whatever low amount of thyroid hormones she makes due to the natural feedback loop. Thus she was destined to get worse. That’s why we don’t go much longer than two weeks on it without starting the 1/2 grain/30mg raises every two weeks. (There are even some who start to feel that suppression after one week on 60mg/one grain, but thankfully that is rare.)
Second, we know from doing this for over 21 years that practically no one is going to be close to being optimal “below” the 2-3 grains area. So there is no need to test. Some do start being optimal in the 2-3 grain area, or some have to be higher. I, for example, am not optimal until I’m closer to 4 grains, but don’t use that as a comparison for HER. We are all individual where we land optimally. But testing starts in that 2-3 grain area.
As far as waiting until we reach the “area of” 2-3 grains: The latter means we could test after reaching 2 grains, or 2 1/4 grains, or 2 1/2 grains or 2 3/4 grains. Any of the latter are in the “area of” of 2-3 grains. I’m think that will make sense.
But after you reach any of those, you do want to wait just a few weeks to give the conversion of T4 to T3 time to show its full conversion. Then test.
Did you order the STTM I book? You really need to as this is all in there. And when you get it, you need to always refer to it. You also need to read about “optimal.” Optimal has nothing to do with when she starts feeling better. She will do so BEFORE she reaches optimal.
Harold Read
Janie, thank you So Much for the detailed reply — that means a lot to me, and I understand you now. I will try to get our new doctor to work with us on this. BTW — I did buy all 3 of your books about a month ago, but I am only halfway through the Hashimoto’s book so far — life is keeping me too busy. I’ll skip over to the STTM book, and look specifically for this info in it. Thanks again, Harold Read.
Jeanine
Hi Janie..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13267477/Why-women-told-theyre-depressed-menopausal-actually-thyroid-prescribed-drugs-condition-dont-need-them.html?ito=link_share_article-factbox
Of all places to find an article on thyroid malfunction that definitely addresses T3 . Thought that you might like to see it – UK based
Janie Bowthorpe
Well, kinda. There’s so much more it could have said. And a lot wrong. But it’s a start and glad you shared it. There are comments that are even better than the article. lol. Irony.
Gian
Hi Janie
I see online some reputable websites claiming that we shouldn’t take any iron/calcium but also magnesium supplement for 4 hours after taking the Armour thyroid. I knew about the iron and calcium, but should we really wait 4 hours also to take a magnesium supplement? this is new to me
Janie Bowthorpe
Even “reputable” sites can either favor “opinion” over experiences, or just mindlessly repeat what they see elsewhere. So keep in mind that when these so-called interactions are mentioned, there is the word “may” affect it when mentioned in so-called reputable medical sites, not it “will” affect it. So if anyone worries about this, our experiences have found that 2 hours is often enough time if you swallow your thyroid meds with an acid in your drink, like lemon juice or apple cider vinegar.
It’s like the idea that weight gain when on nothing but the lousy T4-only is from “not taking enough T4”. That is mentioned by the lousy American Thyroid Association. Yet some patients who have taken enough T4 can see weight gain from not also having direct T3 in their treatment, and thinking being on nothing but a storage hormone does the job. It doesn’t.
All of this is exactly why STTM is about overall experiences, not opinion. 🙂
Gian
I understand, thanks for the advise Janie.
I’m gathering then even Magnesium supplement can interfere with Thyroid absorption, am I understanding right?
Janie Bowthorpe
We really can’t prove it’s true. So just to be safe, we would do the 2 hours away.
Monique
Hello,
I am a patient of Dr. Melnick. Does any one know of good thyriod doctors in Florida. Thanks so much!
Monique
Janice
Hello Dr melnick in New York is retiring and I was told that there’s people posting on the blog regarding possibly other options. I can’t find where that is located. Can someone help?
Raquel
Hello again! I have 1 more question for you which is about my current health struggle. After covid 3 years ago…I started to go hyper. I see a functional medicine natropath so am on all appropriate supplements I think. Iam now very hyperthyroid which has been pretty frustrating after years of being well managed. I have a previous history of EBV, CMV, HPV and late stage Lyme! But had all of those very well managed…gluten free, soy free, mostly organic….but covid threw me into a tail spin and now have inflamed thyroid with graves antibodies. My TSH is nonexistant…can you recomend some reading or anyone who understands how to calm an overactive thyroid that went from hypo to hyper…how long it takes…I am on methimazole, thyrocalm drops, cholestyramine as a binder, and LDN therapy for a few weeks now…it has lowered but there is so little information or support…looking for reading on this subject. Thank you if you have any wisdom in this direction 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
Did you do the free T4 and free T3 to support the diagnosis of Graves’ disease? What were the results with ranges?
Raquel
Hi Janie- I have read 2 of your books-they are all battered and worn out from many flip throughs…Your books are excellent in their information but also format. My daughter is recently diagnosed with sjogrens disease and I wish there was a book like yours that I could give to her. She is not very informed and relies too heavily on the advice of her regular doctors…I know she wants to educate herself on eating right and supporting supplements…if anyone can recomend Sjogrens reading it would be so appreciated. 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
Do a search on Facebook for “Sjogrens”. And it’s too bad she leans that heavily on doctors who are SO far behind us in knowledge.
Jeanine
Hi Janie.
I was wading through different parts of your site and see that you listed Thyroid-S (Thai) as discontinued. I didn’t see an update on that but want you to know that it is available. I have ordered it and it appears to have made it out for delivery.
Since I am new to this whole thing, I’m not sure how much of value that I can share when I start it. I am still awaiting on Dawn from LaughingGrape to correct my order so that I can use some of your years of work to assist in my direction. If there are particulars that you feel are worth sharing as I try out this product, please let me know and I will try to document what I can.
Thanks again
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, that was probably an old post. It’s been back a little while. 🙂
Harold Read
Janie, Thank you for your prompt reply. My wife just ordered your bundle of 3 books, plus the Lab Values Card, from Laughing Grape. Her Hashimoto’s has been a “Millstone Around our Necks” for years, and I regret NOT ordering your books years ago. Better Late than never, I guess, but you can never make up for lost Quality of Life — just accept it and move on. Thanks again for all your years of hard work and dedication to this mission. Harold Read.
Harold Read
Janie — I have used STTM in a 7 1/2-year struggle to get my Wife’s doctors to manage her Hashi’s in a sane manner. Her quality of life is so bad, that I found a new doctor — very difficult to find someone in East Texas who thinks outside the box of traditional medicine. But, we did it. She saw a New doctor 5 days ago, and he knows about the importance of Free T3, and he prescribed Armour during her first visit. We are hopeful for her future for the first time in years. She is 75 years old, and has been on Levo ONLY for over 30 years.
I am eager to share the name of my wife’s new doctor, because finding one that is not brainwashed with TSH-only and Levo-only is challenging and stressful. We also found a 2nd doctor in our area that is extremely likely to think outside the box for thyroid management. I will post their names and contact info below:
Judy’s New doctor, in Lufkin, TX — Dr Josh Allen, DO 936-632-2802; website = “Lufkin Lifestyle & Family Medicine”; he is accepting new Medicare patients!
The 2nd doctor that we found — Judy has not seen him, but he was referred to us by the same person that gave us Dr Allen’s name — she uses him to manage her son’s seizure disorder with Ketogenic Diet — very “outside the box”:
Dr Bryan Davis, MD 936-205-5949; in Nacogdoches, TX; website = http://www.BryanDavisMD.com
Judy is on her 5th day of switching from 75mg Levo ONLY, to 60mg Armour. We are curious about WHEN she might start seeing improved Energy and less Brain Fog from the 60mg Armour — her Free T3 was 1.4 five weeks ago — Dr Allen said that that is very low. When he did the conversion from 75 Levo to Armour, he “bumped up” her Levo dose a little, for the conversion. I know the “when” will vary from one person to another, but do you have any pearls of wisdom??
We have read your “Optimal” page several times, we plan to get Judy’s FT3 “near the top” of range.
We are extremely grateful for the excellent guidance that STTM has provided to us — we could not have done it without you. The information on STTM is literally Life Saving, and we want to contribute to your effort if we can. I recently found a New cardiologist for Judy’s A-Fib — he uses Keto for himself and his patients, & he is superb. He explained how Judy’s Hashi’s has been causing her A-Fib — I will share more on this, if you are interested. Judy and I both are strict Keto, with Fasting — I can share more about that, if you are interested. Many thanks and kudos, Harold Read.
Janie Bowthorpe
Harold, you are good support and advocate for your wife! She’s lucky to have you. And do know that one grain/60mg is just a starting dose from which she will need to raise every two weeks by 1/2 grain/30 mgs until she gets optimal. Check out the chapter on it’s use in this book: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
Susan Photinos
You are correct ‘in theory’ that A-fib is caused by Hashi, because Hypo of any kind is a state of nutrient deficiencies i.e. malnutrition. It’s a low hydrochloric acid issue that disallows you to get the nutrients out of the food you eat. You have Low Magnesium! I had anxiety, panic attacks that led to angina, A-fib! After 1 chelated mag tablet, 15 min later and 1 big deep breath, IT WAS GONE!! It is the HEART screaming for Magnesium that causes all the panic, anxiety, skipped heartbeat and angina! So increase ALL your vitamins and minerals! The One-A Day was ok when we were 20 but NOT at 60! Look up THERAPUTIC DOSES AT over 50! Blessings to you!
Jeanine
Hello Janie.
To start, my condolences. All who have experienced a great love, understand a great loss.
I am new here but you are obviously much respected and your return makes things easier for others, so thank you.
On that note, I’ll launch:
My TSH has dumped to 0.03 and the endocrinologist seems to think that this is acceptable. My hair, what didn’t recently just fall out, is standing on end. I have had to sequential decreases since September, landing me here. I understand that allopathic providers “wait’ for the disease to occur but this seems ludicrous. The thyroid must follow the feedback loop generated by TSH at some point. AM I MISSING SOMETHING? The only understanding that I can muster for this laissez-faire attitude towards the TSH value is that the other hormone levels have not plummeted…as of yet. I am not an endocrinologist, but based upon your experience, please tell me if I am missing something or need to be frantically looking for a different endocrinologist that uses something like the old Socratic reasoning. Last- any idea what happens when TSH hits 0 and how long the body can tolerate it? Many thanks – J
Janie Bowthorpe
Well, first of all, considering that Endos are generally the worst doctors to see for hypothyroidism or Hashi’s, and because they are far too TSH-obsessed in treatment of hypothyroidism with T3, that your Endo is okay with a low TSH is unusual.
You didn’t mention whether you are on meds or not. That doesn’t help my ability to give you a wise answer. So I’ll say this: if you have T3 in your treatment, it is quite normal, and not harmful, for the TSH to drop really low.
If you are not on any meds, a low TSH means you might want to study this, just in case: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/hypopituitary
Jeanine
Hi Janie.
Thank you for the prompt reply.
A little more color for the canvas: I am not on any meds, whatsoever. Both my PCP and this Endo say that there is nothing wrong with me and “wait and see.”
In my younger years, I was a PCOS patient. When I was first diagnosed with that – is when I began to notice changes. I had an endocrinologist waaay back then and he was willing to work with symptomology in combination with blood values- subsequently long since retired. Although I was on synthroid at that time, I became ostepenic secondary to the meds by the end of my 20’s and came off them. No other doctor seemed to think that I needed them so I was ok with the idea at the time.
That said, this recent endo, seems to not take into consideration that I am the stereotypical poster child for hypothyroid-like behavior. Pick any of the classic symptoms and slap my face on it. I believe that they approached it in the way that they did because none of the other values are “out of range,” including FSH and LH. Anti- TPO and TbAb were negative.However, in light of 2 sequential declines of TSH (1.26 to 0.43 down to 0.03) the correct answer is not “you don’t need any medications.” If nothing else, the recommendation should have been that the blood work needs to be repeated in XX months in order to monitor and confirm.
I have had saliva cortisol testing done in the past and am exceedingly low.
I have purchased one of your books which I am reading now. I have and appointment with an Integrative Health MD next week, have begun working with an Ayurvedic practitioner and am awaiting my order of Thyroid-S. I will review the link that you suggested.
If anything comes to mind, your input is appreciated.
Thanks again
J
Susan
Your Dr is the 3rd one I know of, who wanted to Reduce what WAS WORKING! Run!
Judi
Good Evening Janie,
I’m back with information I’ve located about MAYNE brand of T3(liothyronine sodium.) I checked with several additional pharmacies, and compounding pharmacies, and they all told me they were NOT able to order MAYNE brand of T3.
Several of the compounding pharmacies told me I would probably have to pay $130 to $140 a MONTH for CORN/GF liothyronine sodium!!! I am horrified at that prospect! I can’t afford that type of expense so I am preparing myself to go back to regular generic T3, and I’m wondering is there a way for me to determine which brand may have the less amount of corn/gluten. I know that ingredients are listing on packaging in descending order, does that happen with meds too?
I tried reaching Dr. Reddy labs but only found out they are maybe in India, and I haven’t found anything further on how to contact them with questions on whether they will offer the former Mayne brand T3 for sale at some point.
In the meantime my pharmacy has recently called to refilled 1 month of my MAYNE brand, 25 mcg– this after telling me this dosage was no longer available about 4 months ago, and switching me to 50 mcg tabs. I’m shocked that I seem to be the only experience this lack of availability of MAYNE brand of T3! Is no one else having trouble getting this T3 brand??? What could possibly be happening? I’m so confused….. Thanks for any guidance you offer.
Judi
Janie Bowthorpe
Often, when a pharmacy says they can’t get a particular brand, it’s only that pharmacy that can’t. Call around to other pharmacies.
Mark
Janie, I’m sorry for your loss. As you wrote, you don’t get over it; over time, you come to acceptance. It’s a difficult journey that we all have to go through.
For almost two years I’ve been caring for my wife who has rapidly progressing Alzheimer’s. Caregiving takes a toll on even on a healthy person. I have treatment resistant bipolar, primarily depression, and non-restorative sleep. Exhausted and stressed everyday. I need to remain healthy, not just for my wife, but for my ability to function and survive, which has led me to restart/reintroduce NDT after going back and reading Dr. Barnes’ book on hypothyroidism. I’ve got a steep, intimidating mountain to climb and I know that I have to be patient.
You’ve helped many people in their to journey to find healing and health. I hope, with words and thoughts, we can help you on your journey to recovery and emotional healing.
Janie Bowthorpe
Mark, you badly need to order and do a saliva cortisol test: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ Then you can treat what is going on from the stress. (It’s not about blood cortisol.)
You might also want to get your doc to order an aldostone blood test, since it can fall when stressed and cause problems.
danielle osgood
Grief is never-ending. The gifts are the sweet memories and hearing their voices or words of wisdom in your head over the years. It might even be a silly saying. I have noticed that those who have passed haven’t left me. They’re still around. I can’t see them- but I know them. It gives me comfort for my children in the future. Thank you for all the work and giving you did before and continue to do.
Janie Bowthorpe
Glad you figured that out about their continued presence.
Joy McH
So glad to hear this study! Even today, I recommended the book. 🙂 Thank you. I hope you are finding grief moving along after your loss.
Gianluca
HI Janie, I hope you had a great start of the 2024.
I have a question regarding your article called “Take your temp!”. You mention if the temp is taken underarm to add .5 degree, and if it is taken orally to subtract .5 degree. I’m using an old fashion but mercury free thermometer, If I take my temp in the PM, orally it shows almost at 98.8, under armpit almost at 98.6, pretty similar. However in the am underarm is 97.2, and orally almost 97.8.
I’m a bit confused with adding or subtracting the .5 degree, and if I should use it orally vs underarm
Janie Bowthorpe
The general instructions are not based on mercury free thermometers. They are just based on mercury thermometers.
Gianluca
Thank you for your reply Janie. What would I do with a mercury free thermometer then? or should I try to find a mercury one and follow the instructions on “Take your temp!”?
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s such a hard call with mercury-free thermometers. They are advertised as being accurate, but when both have been used at the same time, it leaves us dubious about the non-mercury thermometers. And remember that we are looking for consistency in repeated use. Not sure what to say.
Gianluca
Thank you Janie.
I have been staying in a house for a couple of months where the humidity was always about 75% or a bit more inside, should I be concerned about my Armor potency now? I kept it in the CVS bottle
Amy
Do you have any info on the ndt thyroid by ani pharmaceuticals? Was prescribed np thyroid and the pharmacy substituted the ani without telling me. I didn’t think to check as I thought they couldn’t substitute. About 5 weeks in and I feel like crap with severe fatigue. It’s not on your list of thyroid meds.
Janie Bowthorpe
Pharmacies nearly always substitute to that which gives them a bettert profit, which I personally find appalling and dishonest.
But as far as you feeling like crap with severe fatigue–that doesn’t mean there is something wrong with it. You just could be underdosed. What tells us that something is less quality is when a quality NDT was used for a long time with excellent results, then when using one that pharmacies subbed for, and we feel much less well….that usually a hint.
This is always our goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/
Anna
I was horrified to read about this study to be carried out in the UK. They are looking for volunteers to go off levothyroxine for six weeks and see if they stay euthyroid. The author claims that it´s common for patients with transient hypothyroidism only to be treated with levothyroxine in the both US and the UK…I´m at a loss for words. Even if levo is bad, certainly no meds at all must be even worse…!
https://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN65030272
Alma
Hello Janie. My condolences on your loss. The grief process is a day by day one. I completely understand where you’re at. My heart goes out to you. My question is simple: Are you taking consultations at the moment? I did see the post still up that you’re taking a break but then you’re kind of back so wasn’t sure where you’re at. I wanted to check in. Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
When it comes to loss and grief, you can eventually learn to “carry it with you better”. I do that. As far as coaching calls, I’m still on a break but will be announcing later when I resume. 🙂
IV
Hi Janie
Happy holidays to you and your family
Are you still taking booking calls? I’ve attempted to schedule a zoom with you twice but no replies 🙁
Janie Bowthorpe
If you tried to schedule a call before Dec. 26th when you wrote this…I discovered that some requests were NOT showing up on my end. I was horrified. But I figured out a way to see them behind the scenes. So when I’m ready to start again (I’m currently taking a break), I will make an announcement and use the backend way to see requests.
Judy Kocon
My deepest condolences to you for your loss and your in my prayers.
My naturopath started me on Nature Throid 20 plus years ago going from 1/2 grain to 1 grain.
I never had a problem with it so when the recall occurred in 2020 I had a little on hand because of supply issues beforehand. When it was no longer available, my doctor prescribed NP thyroid for me but I was reluctant to switch since I always did well on Nature Throid. So in 2021 I asked him to order a prescription from my local compounding pharmacy. I took the compounded one grain from them in 2021 through 9/20/22 and never had a problem They were getting a little expensive so I went on the Nature Throid website and found a pharmacy in my state that was less expensive. My naturopath called in a prescription for me for a year and I did not realize instead of 1 grain (65 mg) he ordered 81.25 mg. and I started taking them sometime in September 2022.
I have had a chronic pain syndrome (CRPS) since 2007 and manage it very well with a machine that I use daily. In June of this year I started having unusual pain that I could not resolve. My CRPS doctor worked with me but we could never get to the root cause. In September 2023 I had blood drawn and my TSH was 0.02, A year earlier in 2022 it was 5.47. I was shocked as it had always been in normal range. So I immediately poundered whether the thyroid was the problem that triggered my pain. I started with a new primary care doctor in September, and the first visit saw a fill-in doctor who apparently did not understand thyroid issues and said I was not getting enough medication and to increase to 2 grain and then go back for blood work, Found out later he ordered wrong thyroid panel and that is why I could not compare. When he saw blood results, he said go back to 1 grain and have blood drawn in 3 months. My pain was getting worse so I had blood drawn in November and the TSH was 0.01. This time the regular doctor was back and she said I was getting too much thyroid med. That is when I discovered I had been taking 81.25 instead of 65 mg. for a year. She ordered 65 mg from the compounding pharmacy and it took 5 days to receive. So I found an old 2019 Nature throid bottle with a few pills in it and took them for 5 days. I thought they were 65 mg. but discovered later they were 32.5. Well, the first 3 days I had no pain, the 4th and 5th day I had some mild pain. Then I started the new compounded 65 mg. capsules. The first night my pain returned in full force. I have now been taking them 10 days and the pain is worse than it was before I started taking them. I had blood drawn again this week and my TSH was 0.02; so after 13 days of decreasing the dosage, it barely moved the needle. My doctor believes I am still getting too much and has ordered the 3/4 grain for me. Because of my elevated pain, I am contemplating taking the old pills until I receive the new ones.
I do not know if the dosage alone is the issue; I am suspicious of the ingredients causing my pain syndrome to flair up. I talked to the pharmacist and asked if they had changed ingredients in 2023. She told me they use the same porcine powder that Nature throid used for the pills – it is the same supplier and one inactive ingredient (micro crystalline cellouse). In Nov. 2022 through May 2023 it was not available and they had to go to a different supplier for the porcine powder. So I probably took the 81.25 mg capsules for 6-8 weeks before they used a different supplier for 6 months. My problems started in June when they went back to the original supplier. I am so puzzled because while I was on the higher dose I did okay while they were using that supplier but when they went back to original supplier is when my problem started. Along with the systemic pain, I have headaches, heart pounding, 15 pound weight loss.
This new doctor would like to try a lower dose at the same pharmacy to see how I do. But she is also open to go back to the first compounding pharmacy where I had no problem,
I have been reading your posts and respect your knowledge and advice. Do you have any idea what may be happening? Could it be the dosage and/or ingredients? I trust I haven’t rambled too long. Appreciate any help you can give me.
Judi
Hi Janie, I posted recently and I didn’t see it posted or a response. Is it because I used my nickname “JB” Anyway, I’m posting because my pharmacy recently told me the my T3 – brand Mayne is no longer going to sell my liothyronine sodium. I take Mayne brand because I’m sensitive to gluten and CORN, and it’s the only T3 I know of which says its FREE of those. Have you heard anything about Mayne discontinuing make T3? Since I hadn’t heard anything I also did a on-line search and the only thing I could find was that a lab called Dr Reddy brought Mayne in Feb. 2023 but it seem to be 45 generics and some other items. Mayne brand liothyronine sodium is a generic of cytomel but the article didn’t mention T3 specifically. I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide on this issue. Thank you Janie for all you do, and my condolences to you and your family on the loss of love one. I hope, and pray your good memories of your love one with sustain you, support and comfort as you grieve your loss. Grace, mercy and God’s blessings to you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Judi. Never heard of a lab called Dr Reddy but maybe you can contact them. And you might want to call around to other pharmacies to see if they have it in stock. And thank you for your kind words. 🙂
JB
Janie grace, mercy and blessings for you. My condolences to you on the loss of your love one. I hope and pray that your good memories with your love one will support, comfort and strengthen you during your time of grief. I so appreciate all you do.
I have been taking Mayne(aka Paddock, Perrigo) brand T3 for about the last 5 to 7 yrs. because I have tested for sensitive to corn and gluten, but for the last several months my pharmacy has taken longer and longer to fill my script. Last week after waiting over a month Mayne told my pharmacy they are NO longer going to sell liothyronine sodium. Has anyone else heard anything about this? Has anyone found another brand of T3 w/o corn and/or gluten? I’m without words! I’ve been trying to get “optimal” since 2003, this is the closest I have ever been! I’m afraid going back to a med w/corn is going to undo all my progress and prevent me ever getting “optimal”
JB
Nicole
Hi Janie,
Thank you for all of your wonderful information. I have been on Np thyroid 2.5 grains. I had previously been on 3 grains for many years but in 2022 the doctor thought t3 was too high so reduced dose. Six months ago, my estrogen dose was increased causing SHBG to keep increasing. I am now feeling tired, unmotivated, and depressed. Could my SHBG and estradiol be affecting how I am absorbing the NDT?
Levels are, tsh below .005, Free T3 is 3.6, T3 – 187, T4 free direct 1.23 and T4 9.4.
SHBG 269 (climbing steadily in last 6 months) Estradiol free 371, estradiol free percent, .7, estradiol free serum 2.6.
I truly appreciate any input. Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
You probably weren’t even optimal on 2 1/2 grains. Read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Read every word. Don’t skim.
Traci Zrelak
Hi Janie, I am in awe of your knowledge. I am 59 yrs. old and used to love Armor until they ruined it. Then on NDT my calcium levels rose and I was having issues with my parathyroid. After seeing a DO, Endo, and Functional Med doc they hoped to balance my parathyroid thru T3. And it worked on paper but I went into osteoporosis. Since then my TSH level is 0.005 while on 100mcg T4 and 75mcg of T3. I moved so now I am seeing a new naturopath who thinks my bone issue is too much T3. So she is changing my T3 to 30 mcg and putting my on thyroid supplements. Well since the change, I am constipated, depressed, fat, sick and losing hair. I trust this new doc because she is treating underlying symptoms like viruses and heavy metals. I have had STTM book for years but refreshed my knowledge and realize I need adrenals too. But could 75 mcg of liothyronine the cause of osteoporosis because I felt soooo much better on it? Thank you God Bless. Traci
Janie Bowthorpe
Traci, doctors tend to falsely blame osteoporosis on “too much T3” when we definitely are NOT on too much T3. It’s the fact that the TSH is sensitive to T3 and drops down that underlies their false idea, too. And to move down to 30mcg of T3, with all those symptoms, definitely underscore that your doc has now made you worse.
Monica
My condolences to you, Jane. I’m so sorry for your loss.
I am now 52 and have been on thyroid medication since my 20s. I have all levels checked, but if my TSH is above a 2 there’s usually trouble. I’m on compounded T3 and T4 at the proper ratio. My current problem is I’m experiencing puffiness under my chin down toward my neck and what looks like cellulite on my legs. I am 30 lbs. overweight and still gaining despite a healthy lifestyle. In my 20s I started on Armour which was the best ever, until shortages and then recalls. Then switched to Nature Throid and the same thing happened. The compounded medication has helped, but it seems to no longer be working as well (not sure the reason) and I may need an increase. I so wish Armour was as good as it used to be. My question is, if my new doctor suggests a combo of synthetic T4 with additional T3, is that less of a risk than going back to the NDTs due to problems with availability and recalls? Or is it better to push to stay on the compounded thyroid medication and ask for an increase?
Thank you in advance and thank you for all your hard work here. You have been a Godsend.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Monica. Since you gave the idea that being above 2 is problematic, that implies you think that being in the one’s is okay? It’s not. It means you are underdosing yourself as compared to our experiences. Because as long as we have been focusing on experiences and observations, and becoming fully optimal with the free T3 (fully read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal), our TSH will be below zero. Mine is frequently .004 or .009 when my free T3 is optimal. And contrary to the scaremongering from TSH-obsessed doctors, there has been no harm.
When you say the compounded stopped working, you have probably never been truly optimal.
All this also goes for Armour, for any working NDT, for both T4 and T3. To be optimal.
Monica
Thank you so much for this information, Janie. This is extremely helpful. (Sorry I left out a letter in your name in my first post.) Does this also go for synthetic T4 and T3 when it comes to being optimal?
You reminded me of a time when my TSH was below 1 (I’m not sure my other levels back then) and I felt better than on any other med. That was back when Armour was good.
As for the compounded, while it helped at first, my TSH started rising and my T4 and T3 were getting lower. My doctor at that time ignored the T3 issue and only increased the T4 which made matters worse, including causing anxiety and heart racing. I have a new doctor now who seems to have a better understanding, but we have not made any adjustments to my medication yet. I’m having labs done today and seeing him soon. I’m trying to gather as much information as possible.
Janie Bowthorpe
Whether we are on desiccated thyroid, or T4/T3, or just T3, we need to get the free T3 optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And you know why that doctor increased your T4 when both T4 and T3 were getting lower? Because they are primarily ONLY trained about T4. Their training on what we really need the most–T3–is pitiful. If they do prescribe it, they UNDERDOSE us with it because of their fear of it. Afraid of what changes our lives!! Totally ludicrous. Doctors are NOT taught to think and analyze. Medical school is simply STUFFING doctors with masses amount of information, and some of it crappy. Period. Forget about being able to question. Doctors are robots of what they are stuffed with.
Monica
Thank you, Janie. I agree about doctors and it is awful to be a victim of not being listened to and then being prescribed something that ruins your quality of life. I am still very angry with that doctor who increased the T4 when my T3 was clearly low but “within range”. Another physician adjusted my med since then to the “proper” ratio thank God and I started to feel a bit better, but like I said things are not going in the right direction anymore. I may ask for an increase in T3 only with my new doctor and see how things go. My worst symptoms now are feeling pressure and swelling across my throat and shortness of breath. I’ve been down this road before, so I know it’s thyroid related. Hopefully this new practice listens and I won’t have to resume my search for a good doctor.
Janie Bowthorpe
Make sure you have done the two antibodies tests. Swelling across your thyroid “could” be revealing Hashi’s.
Monica
Hi Janie,
I just wanted to post an update. I took your advice and asked to have the two antibodies tests done again, although they did not indicate autoimmune problems when tested 2 months ago and also over the years. I agree it’s still important to have these checked. I requested an ultrasound of my thyroid and there was no swelling or abnormalities, thank God! Also, I asked to be switched back to Armour which was the first thyroid medication I was ever on, and the only one that made me feel and function “normally” along with optimal labs. I’ve been back on Armour for over 2 weeks now and can already tell a huge difference. The fluid retention is decreasing daily and what appears to be cellulite (but probably isn’t) is smoothing out. The labored breathing is getting much better, I have a more positive outlook and improved energy (although it’s going to take time to truly heal from my setback). Also, the body aches and random muscle spasms are almost not noticeable. I’m a bit sad that I was misdirected due to the drug company messing up Armour back around 2012, but I’m trying to get over that and have hope that it stays “good” again like it once was. NatureThroid just wasn’t as good for me as when Armour was good my first round, and unfortunately that was recalled after I became sick and before the drug company recalled it. I gained 30 lbs. in 18 months and felt like death warmed over! My body knew something was wrong with my medication before the drug company admitted it! That’s when I tried compounded T3 and T4 which helped but just didn’t cut the mustard. So now I’m back to Armour and insisting my TSH be below 1 and having all levels checked regularly. Thankfully the new practice I’m working with seems to be listening and respecting that I know my body and that I wasn’t born yesterday. Thank you as always for what you’re doing here to help thyroid patients 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
Monica, I’m so happy for you! Do know that this is your goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Not achieving it can mean that hypo symptoms can return. The individuality is when.
Monica
Hi Janie,
I just wanted to give an update and ask a question. Like I said I’ve been way better back on Armour. That said, I was increased to 90 mg two and a half weeks ago. It’s hard to tell if I feel better and while the fluid retention has decreased greatly, even on 60 mg Armour, there is still some puffiness and brain fog (while greatly improved). I know this isn’t tons of time to see it’s full effects and I haven’t had my labs done yet, but I was wondering if at my age (52) it is common for TSH to get out of whack and then normalize itself in time without medication adjustments. I realize I will probably need an increase to 2 grains either way and am following your advice closely and refer to your link frequently. Thanks again and I hope you are doing well.
Janie Bowthorpe
60 mg, nor 90mg, will ever result in this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/ Read every single word. Don’t skim.
Monica
Hi Janie,
I’m so grateful you shared that your TSH has been “.004 or .009 when free T3 is optimal” because my TSH is now .087 and considered “Low” according to labs. Thank God my new NP gets it and is good with keeping me on my current dosage. She is not acting alarmed or being a fear monger like some others have in the past. Thank you so much for sharing this information. I might have been worried if you hadn’t shared your TSH results. BTW my T3 and T4 look good. Have a blessed and safe holiday 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
It has been that for years while on NDT or T3. Years. And I’m not suffering nor am I hyper. 🙂 Doctors are pretty stupid about the TSH.
Monica
I am so happy you shared this with me, Janie! It did cross my mind (probably from the fear mongering in the past) that my symptoms might become hyper, although deep down I didn’t believe that. So glad to year your TSH has been that low and you are still doing well and not suffering or hyper! I agree how stupid doctors can be about TSH. It can be astonishing to say the least. I’m at the point I know my med is good and I need to be patient as my symptoms subside, which they are most definitely. It’s taken 6 years to get back on track with this mess! Happy Thanksgiving if you celebrate xo!
Erika Barcenes
Hi Janie,
My condolences for your loss.
I had a question of what has been going on with me. I have been stable more than a year at 2 Grains on Np thyroid which i take both grains in the morning. I was more than fine. But then i started experiencing alot of pain in my hip area left shoulder and thought this could be fibromyalgia. I recently spoke to my doctor about it and he said I need more medication because of the fibromyalgia. Before I went to two grains I was on 4 a day. I started reducing it because I started feeling hyper. Now that I tried to go back on the 4 grains my body does not want it I feel like my eyes want to explode and my neck is so tight as if I’m being severely chocked. I can’t even speak for long becuase my voice dies. My mouth went completely dry. Not sure what this is. I experienced similar when I was on synthroid many years back. I have been reducing it back to 2 grains in the last couple of days because i cannot take it. I’m waiting to see how I going to feel on the 2 grain again. Any suggestions what you think is happening here.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Erika. Unfortunately, though you felt stable on two grains, that amount leaves most people underdosed. It rarely achieves this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I don’t know what “4 a day” means. Four of what? Were you taking four of each grain of NP? If so, that is far too much of a raise to go from two grains to four grains. We only go up 1/2 grain at a time. So if you were on 4 grains, you were possibly overdosed thus hyper.
But there is a possibility, because you were underdosing yourself on only two grains for so long, then possibly went too high, that your adrenals became very stressed and still are. This page gives you a clue: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And you said you are wanting to see how you feel on two grains again. It’s not, not, not about just how you “feel”. A lot of people can feel okay on two grains, but are underdosing themselves and not achieving optimal. Then they end up with problems.
Steven H.
First of all, I would like to express my deepest respect for Janie Bowthorpe, your contribution to the thyroid patients all over the world for the past 20 years. Your advocacy of natural thyroxine has resulted in good treatment for my wife, we express our heartfelt gratitude!
My wife was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 2013. Like all such patients, she started taking her doctor’s prescription: levothyroxine. However, like all patients on this medication, she was not getting the right treatment. All the symptoms and pain kept tormenting her, causing her to even attempt suicide.
In my quest to find a cure for my wife’s illness, I searched for any information I could and it wasn’t until 2017 that I discovered Janie Bowthorpe’s website, STTM. I followed your guidance and began to look for natural thyroxine medicine. February 24, 2017, my wife had begun taking various brands of natural thyroxine manufactured in various countries. Till today a total of 6 years, 5 months and 4 days, all on natural thyroxine. My wife’s hypothyroidism is under control and she is healthy and happy.
I am very sorry that I have not informed you of this good news until now, I should have informed you and expressed my utmost respect and gratitude as soon as my wife’s improvement became apparent.
Initially, I was not sure whether natural thyroxine would be effective in the long term. As you are well aware, there were several brands that were not stable during the first year of taking the medication. My wife tried natural thyroxine from the US, Canada, New Zealand and even Thailand, sometimes with good results and sometimes not. Finally I found a stable natural thyroxine and I understand the reason why this medication can be stable. My wife continued to use this natural thyroxine and her conditions were stable since then, for a total of 5 years.
I would like to share this natural thyroxine with you and other hypothyroid patients. Because it is made by a Chinese pharmaceutical company, it is unlikely to pass FDA testing and be available in North America and Europe. It may not be of much help to patients in those areas.
Because I am a biochemical engineer and understand the reasons for the stable efficacy of thyroxine medicine produced by this Chinese drug company. I can reveal the deciding factor to you. You will then decide whether to notify trusted pharmaceutical companies in the United States or other countries so that they will consider changing the way they extract from raw material. This will ensure the stabilizing effect of the natural thyroid medicine.
Thank you once again for your help to our family, and I wish more patients get the right treatment through your 20 years of contribution.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi there Steven. I’m a bit confused by your post. Are you referring to “natural desiccated thyroid”? Because there is no such thing as natural thyroxine, which is just T4, a storage hormone.
Steven H.
Hi Janie,
You’re correct, I was referring to natural desiccated thyroid, My wife has tested them from 6 different manufactures of 6 different countries.
CS
Hi Steven, do you mind sharing the natural desiccated thyroid that your wife had success with? I have found a brand of it that I am trying but have had trouble figuring out the dosing, I think I am under-dosing. Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
Amounts are different between people. It’s whatever amount eventually achieves this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/
Bj Cobb
Hi Janie,
I feel just awful, so tired all the time (sleeping night and day) itching and pain in arms and back so bad. It drove me to the internet looking for help and came across this site. Lots of these people on here are having the same symptoms I am. I took synthroid for about 30 years and switched to Np Thyroid about 4 years ago – it helped. Then about 2 years ago it was not working good and switched to Armour Thyroid. I go to a hormone clinic, but moved 5 months ago and going to the same clinic but different address and people. About 4 months ago I started being so tired I could not stand up. Spending lots of time on the couch. Tiredness I could not understand. The last month of so arms and neck are killing me, back too. Cannot think very well when I try to work on taxes or such. At the other clinic the NP said she could not raise my thyroid meds because it would be dangerous, at this clinic last week the new NP said she wanted to raise it, I asked about the danger and she said they go by how you feel not your bloodwork. I feel horrible, golly I need some help. I need someone to guide me, a doc or NP but not sure where to find one. My dose of Armour is 90 & 30, it was 90 & 15 a week ago. This tiredness is not normal for me, please help.
My bloodwork as of last week is: tsh 1.270, T3 844, T4 4.7 – The test says my tsh is low, my t3 is hight and my t4 about in the middle.
My husband of 30 years died of cancer and I cannot tell you of the ache inside my heart, it’s been a few years but I miss him so. What ever has made you sad I’m so sorry for that.
I have not done this before so how will I k now if you read this or not? than you so much. Bj Cobb
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Bj. Sorry to read of the problems you are having. And I think most of us, including me, would say with sincerity that we are sorry for your loss of your husband. I’ve been through it.
No, “lots” of people are not having those symptoms. If someone is, it’s explainable. For one, most anyone would be UNDERdosed on just 2 grains, which you are on. Thus, hypothyroid symptoms will eventually come back with a vengeance…as has happened to you. Two grains hardly ever achieves this goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Read the ENTIRE page I just posted a link to. All of it. You most likely now have stressed adrenals, as well, from being so underdosed. You might even now have inadequate iron levels, declining B12, declining Vitamin D, from being underdosed. And though you’d think we would just go by symptoms, that is wrong. We can feel fine for awhile while underdosed, then it comes back to haunt us with a return of symptoms. We need to also go by lab results. The page will explain.
Bj Cobb
Hi Janie,
Sounds crazy I know but I feel if I do not get help soon I will die. My body feels like it’s being drained of it’s resources. I have been going to a Hormone NP but she does not seem to know a lot. I need to find a doctor to help but cannot not seem too. So tired it’s hard to look. What kind of doctor do I need? Md, Do, other? Called a functional medicine doctor and now he keeps calling and texting me wants me to sign up for a year or something. Sounds fishy. I did the salivia test and things came back real low. Cortisol .9, .8, 1.5, She said it was real low. The DHEA (whatever that is) was very low 3 times, .7,.8,.9. She said she did not understand that test. Dopamine, epinephrine, norep/epi ratio and GABA all bad numbers. Vit D low, she said use 5 drops of Vit D. She put me on 10 mg of steroids, it’s been a week and I don’t feel any better. The company that tested was m2 square. I guess I am wondering if you know what type of doctor I should try to find to help me. Thank you so much. Bj Cobb I live in New Braunfels, Texas – Hot as Heck here. 104
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi BJ. There is no perfect doc out there. You might luck out using a functional med doc, though. But there are doctors who aren’t functional med who are trainable, too. We just have to find a doc we can guide.
As far as your saliva results, you only mentioned three of four spits and no ranges. But if they are low, they are low. To understand it, it’s all in Chapter 6 of the updated revision STTM books. This one: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/ You can also compare your results to where healthy people fall, here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
It also sounds like you need someone to read the STTM book to help you, and who could go in the office with you with the knowledge.
Low Vitamin D for us is the result of being poorly treated for hypothyroid state. But you can’t get out of your hypothyroid state without T3, and without raising, and without being on cortisol for those lows. Cortisol is what enables T3 to get to the cells. Otherwise, T3 will pool in the blood and not make it to the cells. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
A cortisol problem can also go hand-in-hand with low aldosterone, another steroid. So it should be tested, too. Then compared to the above Lab Values page. Both will need to be treated. Low cortisol is treated with Cortef (right amounts in the STTM book) and low aldosterone is treated with Florinef.
Low GABA can be a mutation problem. I have chronically low GABA for that reason, so I take it every evening before bed.
Evelyn
Have you heard about the new FDA requirement that NDT is a ‘biologic’ and needs to apply for FDA approval as a biologic by 2029 or it will not be able to be manufactured, advertised or sold? In addition, compounded NDT is in danger of being banned at any time. I saw this on many websites, the best info presentation I found was: https://www.palomahealth.com/learn/natural-desiccated-thyroid-drugs#anchor1
For a treatment that has been used effectively & safely for 130 years, this seems to be a focused attack by the pharmacy companies.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes. It’s now common knowledge. It was even cited in 1989 that natural thyroid preparation‘s are biologically active. No big deal, though, when you consider, its decades of safe use and changed lives. The FDA are control freaks and gaslighters who think that the use of NDT can cause a relapse of hypothyroidism, or even hyperthyroidism, ‘unlike thyroxine’. Total BS. They fail to consider that thyroxine has done major harm to patients worldwide for decades. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
nikkeia hardman
ADTHYZA has been working really well for me. I was on THROYD-S, and I just didn’t feel quite right on it, (too many fillers). I’m glad that I’m trying this new medication. hope and pray that it continue to work.
Janie Bowthorpe
Believe it or not, and for the majority, it’s not usually the fillers that causes someone to feel they have problems with an NDT medication. Problems happen because they never have read the optimal page, thus have not gotten truly optimal with their free T3. Second reason, they aren’t paying attention to the RT3, which should be in the very bottom of the range, if not below range. Or they aren’t paying attention to having a cortisol or low aldosterone issue.
Adrienne Vincent
Hello Janie,
First let me say I really sympathize with you having lost someone you very much loved because I have been there, too, so I know of the excruciating pain you’ve been feeling. I honestly don’t expect to ever be quite the same no matter how much time passes, but I have mostly recovered, and I’m sure you will, too. Thank you for getting back to your blog, this is wonderful for those of us with thyroid issues who are puzzled. 🙂 I found your site because I am wondering if anyone has ever reported having mild depression as a result of taking Armour thyroid! I know that sounds unlikely, but I can’t help wondering. While I have had periods of depression in my life, this is a mild to moderate depression that started after I went on Armour, and it’s not letting up. Any thoughts are most appreciated, Adrienne
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Adrienne. Armour doesn’t cause depression. Being on too little can, as can never being this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie Bowthorpe
And thank you for your kind words. 🙂 I don’t find “recovered” to fit this for me. Losing the love of you life as I did only means that I will hopefully carry the loss with me better, but not recover.
Sandra Rechisky
Hi Jamie, I am so sorry for your loss and hope you’ll feel better day by day.
I am a non converter. I saw your interview with Dr Child’s this morning and your comment on NP Thyroid which I currently take. I did notice the unpleasant odor of the tablets and it was concerning. I did have a bit of a reaction when I started the 2nd month of NP Thyroid 60mg daily. I had palpitations and felt very weak. I had to rest for a few hours. I was taking Liothyronine 5mcg 2x a day for 1 month prior to that. My functional medicine NP added Liothyronine 5mcg daily to the NP Thyroid and I seem to be better but I’m wondering if I should ask for a different brand?
I checked my labs done on 5/16. Previous labs were on 3/14.
Iron – 118
TIBC – 289
TSH – 0.229 3/14 – 0.572
RT3 – 15.9 23.8
FT3 – 2.6 2.2
FT4 – 1.58 1.48
Seems I’m going in the right direction but I’m concerned about the. NP Thyroid.
Thank you,
Sandra
Janie Bowthorpe
My comment to Dr. Childs may have been when it had gone bad and then the recall. Today, any desiccated thyroid will smell like pig, which isn’t always a great smell. lol. You didn’t give ranges for the labs you gave. So compare then to what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com. I can already tell your RT3 is way too high, FT3 is way too low.
Dorothy Marshall
Thank you for this website and your book that were responsible for diagnosing my Hashi’s 15 yrs ago and since treating it.
New doc cut my Armour from 2 to 1 grain as I had body tremors following 1.5 to 2.0 increase (that instead were likely due to having taken the neuro toxin doxycycline). I suspected this was too drastic, but let down my guard. Have lost half my hair, yet still have tremors. Have been back to 1.5 grains for a couple months, and now requested increasing to 2 grains to help grow hair and to heal my bilateral hip bursitis. New doc suggests going to 2.0 only on alternate days (!)..which I think is insane… but cannot find anything to support this. (I am increasing to 2.0 everyday on my own.) BTW, FT3 on 2 grains in Feb was 4.3 H (2.3-4.2) while FT4 was 1.3 (0.8-1.8). TSH was 0.01L. These were done before my daily dose. On 1.5 grains May 28, FT3 was 3.3 (2.3-4.2) before daily dose. From what I can tell, my Feb’23 test report from ZRT seems good. Advice pls?
Janie Bowthorpe
We as patients have learned that to react that way (tremors), just from going from 1 1/2 grains to 2 grains (which never overdoses most people) implies it’s revealing that you could have a cortisol problem. This is the page to read: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And doctors suggest alternating days because they don’t understand the connection to having either low cortisol, high cortisol, and/or low aldosterone. Any of the latter causes problems with T3 in our treatment.
Also, your free T3 of 4.3 on only 2 grains implies you can be pooling due to that cortisol problem, and sometimes due to low aldosterone. This: https://stopthethyroidomadness.com/pooling
Dorothy Marshall
Thank you, Janie.
I did do ZRT cortisol saliva test in Feb and was surprised that “Cortisol is within expected range throughout most of the day and is following a normal circadian rhythm.”
I have hip bursitis that won’t heal, body tremors (that could be attributed to tetracycline…and which did not go away w reduced Armour), significant hair loss (which I attribute in part to going from 2 to 1 grain, but also to Olaplex hair product). My thyroid bloodwork is always done before morning dose, so my numbers would likely show I was hyper otherwise.
Your suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Dorothy, you need to go by what is shown for each of the 4 times that you spit, here under the heading 24-HOUR CORTISOL SALIVA: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Dorothy Marshall
FT3 is 3.7 pg/mL
RT3 is 15 ng/dL (8-25 ng/dL)
ODX Calculator says RT3 ratio is 25.133
Your thoughts pls?
They did not run Aldosterone…says not done. Aargh.
The lab did not run the aldosterone test. Says “not done”.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Dorothy. Here’s where to always go to understand lab results: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Alice
I’m sorry for your loss. I can only imagine the stress that this has caused.
I have a loved one: No thyroid and struggling with all thyroid medications. I read your book and reviewed the website and know it is due to low Aldosterone and Cortisol (2x out of the day). What can one do if they are struggling with Florinef? It seems it peaks then after a couple hours is out of their system and they say it makes their heart hurt even when they take 1/2 a pill at a time? Any thoughts? They can’t get out of hypo state unless their temps don’t fluctuate after taking Florinef and cortisol 10 days and have stable temps? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Just to answer correctly, you referred to they. This is not you?? If it is you, try taking food with florinef? Correct, unless one is adequately treating one’s saliva results, plus low cortisol, it’s hard to get out of one’s hypothyroid state because you tend to pool if trying to raise thyroid meds.
Alice
Thank you for your response. They have tried taking with Food and that had helped and their DATS temperatures are not fluctuation more than .2 a day with their cortisol supplementation yet they are still pooling- racing heart but tired. Does it just take a while? Would low Iron cause this as they are very low in Iron? They are taking only T3 medication at this time as they had high RT3 due to low iron. Also, How long would it take to see results? Will they have to increase their iron before they will see results?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Alice. I’m not sure this is going to work via a 3rd party communication situation. Information gets too watered down. This is why I end up having to do a coaching call directly with the person having the issue, instead of with a party inbetween (you). And a side note: low iron is only one of three potential causes of rising Rt3.
Rhonda Caywood
Hello Janie,
I’m sorry to hear of your loss. I’m so glad you’re back. I have been reading your information and blogs for a long time.
I am now seeing a new doctor since my previous pcp retired. He doesn’t believe in the rT3 test and I am currently waiting for my lab test results. I had a TT in 2010 and I currently take Armour 90 mg each morning and he doesn’t care one way or another if I take my meds before during or after lab testing. He did order the rT3 at my request although if he doesn’t believe in it what’s the point? The range my lab uses is 9.3 to 20.0 which is huge, but I understand a preferable result would be below 10. How can I explain the result when it comes back and what it means in regard to Free T3? He told me he goes by the Frees only to make adjustments. During the past few months, I have gained about 12 pounds the first weight gain since my surgery 13 years ago when I started with Synthroid, then switched to Nature-Throid, and now Armour. I have read several definitions of rT3 and what it means for the Free T3. I would appreciate a simple explanation so he doesn’t force something on me without all of the information.
Thank you,
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Rhonda. You are severely underdosed on Armour, I’d be more concerned about that fact. That’s why you gained the weight. First, take the time to read every bit of what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Then here’s info about the RT3, but that’s secondary to how badly you are underdosed.
Annette
Hi Janie glad to see ur back. Your expertise is incredible and so greatly appreciated. I have a thyroid problem and want to take control of it. It has been a nightmare with drs here in ny. Iam going to take blood test and adrenals to start. Where can I get an accurate blood and adrenal test? Iam in ny and want to start this asap.
Janie Bowthorpe
First, blood cortisol is measuring mostly bound, unusable cortisol. So we need to do saliva cortisol, which measures you are four key times and is measuring what is available for use and thus far more accurate. But NY is stupid and won’t allow you to order your own Saliva Cortisol. So what patients in New York are doing is finding a friend or family member in a nearby state to order it to their own address, then turn around repackage it, and send it to you. https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/
The thyroid labs (free T4, free T3, and RT3) are fine with the blood draw, and you just have to find a doctor to prescribe them, or a facility there that allows you to order your own.
gita
Thankyou so much for all you do for your fellow humans. Can you please give more information on those born without a thyroid glad? What is the information out there for best meds and treatments?
Janie Bowthorpe
The entire STTM I book is for any cause of one’s hypothyroidism. https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
Cheryl
Janie, I trust you above all my “other” doctors! Two are trying to convince me my NP Thyroid 1.5g every 12 hours is the root cause of my osteoporosis. I found info in the archives, I am not Graves, no hyper symptoms ever…, no clinical studies that directly show NDT causes osteo. From what I’ve found in research, is that it’s a possibility of issues with bone density, when you take a dose 240 mcg per day, but it cannot be proven. Seems the researchers are trying to prove the osteoclasts are in high gear and over work to break down bone. My doc, who I got sent to because of severe osteo, post parathyroid tumor, says my TSH should be 0.5>. I’ve taken NDT since 2015, so TSH is suppressed. Thyroid has been viewed at surgery and ultrasound by two doctors, both stunned at how small it is. What do you think?
Janie Bowthorpe
Patients have found that what you have been told to be total BS, as if NDT all by itself causes osteoporosis. In fact, 1.5 grains twice a day is only 3 grains total. 3 grains rarely overdoses anyone. In fact, for some, it UNDERdoses them. This is our goal, and it will be individual what amount of NDT achieves our goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And it’s NOT about the TSH: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless. Our TSH goes low due to being sensitive to T3 in our treatment. Period. Our low TSH is NOT NOT NOT the same as the low TSH from Graves’ disease.
Thyroids get small due to us being on thyroid meds. That’s normal.
Gianluca
Janie
I understand the recommendations for testing the Thyroid while on NDT are not to take it before labs, but if someone is to take it and test let’s say 4 hours after the second dose, what do you think would be the maximum acceptable spike for the FT3? do we care that the FT3 may be at supraphysiological levels for most of the day?
Janie Bowthorpe
We haven’t been that technical as far as coming up with an “maximum acceptable spike”. But we do know, from years of our experiences, that even 4 hours later is too soon after taking NDT or T3 to do labs. Just wait and do it all right the next day i.e. do the blood draw before you take your meds for the day.
.
Gianluca Bonetti
thanks. Something that me and my GF noticed, is that when adding Iodine we get more absorption of the NDT. One grain 2 hours later with no Iodine brings FT3 to about 4, with the Iodine over 6
Janie Bowthorpe
That may have nothing to do with the iodine. Instead, this can be the cause: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
Gianluca
HI Janie, I hope you had a good weekend.
I have allot of extra Armour, is refrigerating them still a safe practice for long term storage?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
yes, but it’s more about keeping it totally away from moisture, too.
Gianluca
Hi Janie
I understand it is normal and healthy for the TSH to go below range while on NDT. However, my TSH is at .009, is this generally or sometime a level that indicates people are taking a bit too much?
Janie Bowthorpe
I have many times been .009 with my TSH without being hyper or on too much.
Gianluca
HI Janie, I hope you are enjoying the summer. Do you think it is ok to take some fiber supplement after about 6hr of ingesting the Armour?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Probably.
Gianluca
hi Janie
when we say not to take the NDT with calcium, Iron or fiber. we mean the supplemental for right?
I’m moving one of my dose of NDT close to my snack that consists of a banana and maybe a few nuts, that should be ok right? probably only slow down the absorption of the NDT?
thanks Janie, I hope you doing great and all is good
Janie Bowthorpe
High iron food, high calcium food, high fiber food, or supplemental iron, supplemental calcium, supplemental fiber powder.
Gianluca
thank you. Do you think it is ok to take the NDT after 30min/1hr after I had few nuts and a banana?
Janie Bowthorpe
Definitely yes.
Kathy
First, I’m really sorry for your loss. The last few years have seen losses in my family too, so I hope you’re getting better day by day.
Second, I want to let you know about a recent experience of mine. Since NDTs all went bad in 2020, I have been on generic Cytomel to at least have T3 in my system (I don’t convert T3 from T4). Last month, my doctor asked if I wanted to go back on NDTs, and suggested NP Thyroid. I asked if it was back like it was before, and he said as far as he understood it was. So I said OK.
Picked up my prescription the end of March.
It has been a horrible six weeks. NP Thyroid is NOT back to the way it was before at all. It’s as if it’s a placebo, a sugar pill. I have all the classic hypo symptoms, extreme weight gain (even though nothing else changed, I exercise and eat an average of 1600 calories a day), extreme muscle weakness, extreme joint pain, no energy, hair falling out, etc. Tomorrow I have a phone appointment with my doctor, and will be asking for him to rewrite the prescription for the generic Cytomel instead.
Now, I haven’t tried the Armour Thyroid, because the cheapest price I can find for a 90 day supply of 120mg tablets is $167.99 at a pharmacy 80 miles away. Anything closer and the price jumps to almost $200.00. Basically, since insurance doesn’t cover Armour Thyroid, it’s way out of my price range. sad that it has been the only NDT on the market, while all the others have been taken off. I also know that the FDA is requiring that NDTs be registered with them, instead of grandfathered in, and they’re all scrambling to get the paperwork done for it. it makes me wonder if the FDA guidelines have had the effect of rendering NDTs useless, even though they’ve been successfully treating hypothyroidism since the 1890s.
It appears that, even though it’s back on the market as a thyroid medicine, it’s nowhere near as potent as it used to be. Please let other hypo patients know to stick with the synthetics, unless they want to either pay an arm and a leg for their meds, or they want to regress back to square one trying to become optimal again. I now have close to 20 lbs to lose—AGAIN—once I’m back on generic Cytomel. It’s like I go forward, become optimal, and finally not only feel good but also get down to a weight where I feel good, without having to starve myself, something happens that sets me back several months. I just wish the NDTs would get back to where they were pre-2020, or at least that Armour Thyroid would quit gouging the public.
Anyway, that’s my rant.
Janie Bowthorpe
Kathy, thank you for your kind words. I have found out first hand that the journey of a loss like this doesn’t mean I am back to where I was before the loss. It’s a bit of a lifetime adjustment. In some ways, you never get over a loss like this. You just cope with it better to a degree. But that loss always sits there.
As far as NP, if I am reading correctly that you are only on two grains, that can be a big part of your problem. Two grains rarely is enough to fully treat one’s hypothyroid state. When we are on thyroid meds, the hypothalamus in your brain area senses it. Thus, it tells the pituitary to tell the thyroid to release less. That is the normal suppression. Thus, we have to raise and raise again to counter that suppression.
That’s why we all end up raising until we achieve this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Do read the entire page instead of skimming it. There are also factors to look out for, such as having a cortisol issue, or rising RT3, besides underdosing ourselves.
Even if a brand is less potent, we still raise until we achieve optimal. Some even add a little T3. Lab results are important in this journey of thyroid treatment.
I totally agree with you about the cost of Armour. It’s a bit insulting. I also use Good Rx, though, which helps me a lot.
Cheryl
You are in our hearts and prayers! Thank you for all you do for us!
Janie Bowthorpe
Thank you for that. I never came back to do another blog post. But I still do coaching calls. One step at a time.
Gianluca
HI Janie
I hope you are doing well. considering I understand we don’t take our NDT before going to labs, is it however necessary to fast before the blood draw or having a bit of food is k?
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
It seems to be mostly about not taking thyroid meds before the blood draw sometime in one’s morning–to take them after the lab. Otherwise, we are simply measuring the rise of the thyroid hormones. Some literature says the rise peaks at 2 hours, yet we still see a peak 4 hours later and more. We aren’t interested in seeing the rise and peak. We are far more interested in seeing what we are holding onto.
Russ
Hi Janie,
This is off topic, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised to see you mentioned and recommended by two well known M.D.’s
Cardiologist William Davis M.D. gives you high praises in his book ‘UnDoctored’.
And Family Physician Dr. Ken Berry recommends STTM in one of his Youtube videos on Thyroid health.
Keep up the good work!
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s always heartening that there can be some medical professionals who are open to and appreciate patient experiences and observations in getting well!
Just Me
Hi All. First, Janie, I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my parent 18 months ago and it’s just been terrible. Sending you lots of hugs and love. Grief sucks. Grief with thyroid disease sucks harder. <3
2nd: Has anyone heard of a (very) new NDT called Adthyza? My doctor just gave me samples (I have no thyroid) because the Armour/Cytomel combo isn’t working well. She said it was made here in the states in PA (which begged me asking where are the current NDT meds being manufactured now).
The company is Azurity Pharmaceuticals.
She gave me a month’s sample. The dosage is much like the old WP/Naturethroid dosing. Anyone taking it or know anything about it?
Janie Bowthorpe
Thanks for your condolences. I’ve lost parents, a friend, and for me only, losing the love of my life was even worse.
I posted about that NDT on the STTM Facebook page. Just be aware that they have a sugar alcohol in it, which for a percentage of people, could cause gastrointestinal upset. It always does me. So I am personally VERY unimpressed that the maker of a thyroid med would put that in there.
Just Me
Losing my twin, every family member in 2 years then my parent to suspicious circumstances has been a huge grief. Every loss is personal and changes us forever. It just hurts like crazy because we still love them . <3 <3
As to why I haven’t seen anything on Adthyza before: I’m not on any social media platforms. I just started the Adthyza today and while one day isn’t enough time by a long shot, I have noticed a good initial start. Adrenals have been treated for some time and still paying attention to cortisol, iron, vitamin D etc. so, no issues there.
I haven’t had a problem with mannitol. I do know it’s sold as a supplement in health food stores. Since I started Armour, it wasn’t like WP or even NP pre-2019. I had to add Cytomel. When I saw my Integrative MD, she recognized my thyroid medication wasn’t working based on multiple factors. I usually notice it, so it must have been pretty bad. I’ll keep you updated on what happens. Doesn’t seem to be any reviews on it. Thanks, Janie! <3
Betty
Hi janie sorry for your loss.
Janie Bowthorpe
Thanks Betty.
Lesley Sims
Is there anything that we can do to fight the FDA on their recent decision to classify desiccated thyroid hormones as a “biologic” drug? I need to refill my prescription and was shocked that the price of NP Thyroid has tripled since I last got it 6 months ago. This is an unfair and disgusting move on their part!
Janie Bowthorpe
A site like this: https://www.evexias.com/take-action-now-fda-attacking-natural-thyroid
Ivelisse
Hi Janie,
How can I go about going from T3 only to combination? I’ve been on T3 only with still a lot of problems and seeking to go back to combination. Unfortunately, I cannot do armour thyroid and instead have mine compounded. Do I do the equivalent of 38/9? Considering I’m taking 100mcg of T3 only I’m very uncertain if this is right for me or not I cannot get optimal it’s very frustrating learning how to. I feel I was doing better before while on combination despite reverse T3 problems. As far as dosing regime with combination throughout the day typically how do I do so? Very lost right now. Xx
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Ivelisse. Can you be more specific as to those problems? What’s your free T3 on 100 mcg of T3?
Ivelisse
Hi, sorry I haven’t tested it since I’ve read T3 only we go by symptoms and not blood tests. I know on 80mcg I was around 4.8 on a labcorp range. I am trying to go back to combination but unsure how to start this. When I use to be on armour it was many years ago and I believe I was dividing my doses during the day but I don’t remember how many times a day I was diving the armour. Soon after I learned I had reverse T3 problems and started adding T3 to my NDT. Eventually so much so I got off armour and on synthetic combination T4/T3. Was having severe problems and eventually went into T3 only but really interested in starting T4 again. I am just stuck how to start over.
I really wasnt ever sure on what the problems were for the reverse T3 other than cortisol and inflammation. I am having to change fillers extremely frequently recently I’m assuming because of leaky gut which I have always had but confirmed just this month via stool. I am testing for sibo considering I can’t ingest any fermented foods.
Janie Bowthorpe
Patient-to-patient information for 21 years now has shown it can be huge mistake to just go by symptoms. We need to watch labs and understand what optimal means. Also, with rising Rt3, we have to treat the causes before getting back on T4: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
s walsh
Looking for Great doctor/Endo in MA
Lucinda Horst
i finally got my doctor to give me 1 grain dessicated thyroid. She refuses to go higher. My T3 is 5.32. Would raising my medication make my T3 go up? Im still very depressed and tired.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Lucinda. Because lab facilities can be slightly different as far as ranges, you need to give the range. You also need to clarify if that’s the free T3, not just T3.
Tammy
I came here looking to see if I could find any info about the FDA designating NDT as a Biologic? I read the article “What’s Happening With Natural Desiccated Thyroid Drugs” at Paloma Health.
In order to keep selling NDT they have to get a BLA license by 2029. The FDA wants to limit or eliminate compounding.
The price will skyrocket after this happens.
Hope you are doing well. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Dontforgetcortisol
Hi Tammy, I’m looking for similar information… doesn’t look good at all.
Maria
Hi Janie. Do I need to have my latest test results including vitamins and minerals before our first call.? What happens after the first call.
Thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Lab results for the call do help. Free T3, free T3, RT3, B12, Vitamin D, four iron labs, sodium, potassium, aldosterone.
Janie Bowthorpe
Whoops. I put two of “free T3”. The second one would be the free T4.
Marie Wallner
Dear Janie, I offer my sincerest condolences to you for your loss. I was able to care for my 93 year old Mom this past August and bring her home on Hospice. My 4 Sisters and 4 Brothers rotated in and out to help as I am the only medical person in my Family. Mom wanted to be at home and we all got to help her with this. I know I will be grieving for a long time as Mom was my best Friend. I developed Papillary Ca Nov. 2021 with T.T. in January 2022. Would your books benefit me now that I have no thyroid but still struggle with “hypo symptoms”? Thank you so very much! marie
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m sending my love to you concerning your dear Mom. And yes, the book will benefit. Hypothyroidism is hypothyroidism no matter the cause.
Carrie Coates
Janie,
Sending warm hugs & my deepest condolences. I understand the deepness of grief, after the loss of my family in 2014. I was looking for the group site on FB and couldn’t find it….are you still doing individual consults? I had to go back on thyroid meds b/c of a recent battle with COVID & pneumonia but my doctor finally put my on Armour (Yeah ????). I think I’ve finally hit menopause, so I was hoping for guidance on managing the Hashimoto’s plus menopause to manage everything. I’m on the lowest dose of Armour and waiting for my blood labs. My hair has finally stopped falling out in clumps! (Small victory). I think I need to go to either the functional dr and/or my obgyn but wanted your insight before I do any of that….I hope you are staying safe & smiling. If you are doing private consults, I’d love to touch base once I have those labs. Sending my best 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, the coaching calls have continued by me. I was able to continue them without too much stress in this journey. Here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/coaching-call I can tell I would have a lot to teach you in getting well, based on two decades of what we have learned, which doctors can be behind on.
Yes, Armour still works. But…only if your RT3 stays down. Also, you have to have good cortisol levels with it, plus understand this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal And the lowest dose does nothing and will never achieve what is explained on the latter page.
Brenda
Welcome back Janie and sincere condolences for your loss.
I have been hypothyroid for the past 30-odd years (total thyroidectomy).
I believe that my hypothyroidism has been fairly well-managed. I am taking Euthyrox and Tertroxin (T3). My doctor (general practitioner) added T3 to my meds about 10 years ago.
My worst symptoms are “overheating” and weight gain and trouble sleeping. Apart from that I feel good. 🙂
I suffer from the occasional hot flash which I think is menopause-related. I have been in 2 minds about starting HRT as I have been told that HRT will interfere with my thyroid medication.
Do you have any suggestions? I have checked on the STTM site, but didn’t see anything about menopause and hypothyroidism.
Any pointers as to what I discuss with my doctor about going on HRT together with my thyroid medication?
Thanks
Brenda (South Africa)
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Brenda. The symptoms you are describing point out that you are definitely NOT well-managed.
Weight gain implies you are underdosed and haven’t followed this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Overheating could point to sex hormone issues with meno, but also implies you could have low iron https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron (which happens from being underdosed) or even more so, this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone
Trouble sleeping implies this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Sex hormones, especially estrogen, interfere if you take them close to your thyroid meds. You just take them away from thyroid meds, not avoid them!! Especially the estrogen.
Brenda
Thanks so much Janie, your reply is well-received.
Sofia Ferenburg
Hello Janie,
I am sorry for your loss. I know the feeling. I lost both my parents few years ago. I still remember them every day.
I need some help. I am going to this functional doctor who is also an MD. She is very knowledgeable. She wants to adjust my thyroid medication since she thinks I am taking too much T3 for my age. I am 65 1/2 years old. I decided to give it a try. She put me on 1 grain T4 from compound pharmacy and 30mg NP Thyroid twice a day. After taking it for about 6 weeks my blood test showed the following:Free T3- 2.3 (range 2.0-4.4), Free T4- 0.99 (range 0.79-1.77), TSH- 0.061 (range 0.45-4.5), T3 Reverse 20.1 range (8.0-25.0), Thyroglobulin Ab – 14.4 (range 0.00-115.0), Anti-TPO 11.90 (range 0.00-35.00).
I didn’t take meds the morning of the lab, last time I took 30mg NP Thyroid the day before around 2:30pm. She says my Free T’s are high because they are short lived. They should be lower. My TSH is too low. She want me to start taking brand Synthroid 50mg and 15mg NP Thyroid twice a day. Please let me know what do you think?
Thank you.
Sofia F
Janie Bowthorpe
Sofia, there are no “grains” of T4.
Your results show you haven’t read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal or this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3. Your frees are LOW not high. Read the links. Also, it’s never ever about the TSH. READ: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
Sofia
Hello Janie,
I am so confused. Could the person be on Synthroid and NP thyroid at the same time? I only see synthetic T4 and synthetic T3, of NDT.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sofia, NP or Armour is already 80% T4. Adding T4 is not what we do, because it raises the risk that you’ll be on too much T4. If the latter happens, RT3 will go up. We just raise the NDT by itself until we have achieved this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie Bowthorpe
The people who add T3 to NDT is usually because they already had an RT3 problem. So they greatly lower the NDT, which lowers the 80% T4, then make up the difference with added T3. This may not be you. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Sofia
Hello Janie,
My doctor made me have a blood test at 1pm after I took 30 mcg T4 and 1/4 grain NP Thyroid at 7am in the morning.
My FT4 is 1.0 (range 0.8-1.8). FT3 is 2.7 (range 2.3-4.2). RT3 is 18 (range 8-25).
I know these are low. I see some symptoms like losing hair, dry skin etc coming back. She wants me to stay now on 50 mcg Synthroid, and 1/4mcg NP Thyroid twice a day.
What do you think I should do? I am so confused.
Thank you in advance.
Janie Bowthorpe
We as patients have learned a lot.
1) We never do labs after taking our meds. We take our meds after the morning blood draw.
2) We find it stupid to be in such a low amount of NDT (when NDT by itself works great in larger amounts) along with her clueless emphasis on T4.
3) But…at this point in time, you can’t even be solely on NDT and raise it. The problem is your already too high RT3, which will only continue to go up due to doctor who is raising T4. It will also go up on just NDT, since NDT is 80% T4. RT3 comes from T4 due to three issues. She is making you worse according to years of our experiences. Time to read this and all of it: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Gianluca
Hi Janie, Happy New Year!.
Does endogenous Thyroid increase Pregnenolone? if so what do you think would be the mechanism?
Gianluca
I actually meant exogenous, so like the NDT we are taking
Janie Bowthorpe
Thyroid doesn’t increase low pregnenolone. Taking Pregnenolone increases low levels. Important to test it first and not guess.
Gianluca
HI Janie.
i wanted to report that both me and my GF, were able to get optimal with only two grains Amour, We followed the recommendation on your book for testing also. Beside the FT3, our FT4 is at the top of the range as well, actually hers is a bit above. Does this mean we are taking a bit too much, since in your book you wrote FT4 should fall about mid range?
My GF doesn’t have any side effects, but I do think I have been feeling a bit too wired later in the day, plus my heart rate seems to increase more in situations where I generally feel anxious
Janie Bowthorpe
If your free T4 is at the top of the range, that’s way too high. It will now be converting to RT3 to clear out the excess.
You also may have a high free T3 due to this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling, not because it’s “optimal”. And that can mean you need to explore having a cortisol problem. The symptoms you describe are usually cortisol- related, we have noticed.
This is the saliva test we order: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ Then compare to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Gianluca
thanks for your reply Janie.
Our FT3 is not high, but at top of range, we both are about 4.2 pg/ml (LabCorp)
I’m already on 30mg HC for my cortisol. And my basal am body temp finally rose to 97.8. I may think I’m not pulling, neither is my GF. We both got similar test results with only 2 grains. I think we may go back to 90mg total for now.
Based on the reading I have done on your book and website, I really thought we would need to get in the 3 grains area to be optimal,
Have you heard of other patients complaining about Armour batches being too strong? we are in California
Janie Bowthorpe
Armour has not been too strong. If it feels that way, it can be because the T3 in Armour is revealing a cortisol problem.
Gianluca
These are our labs, I hope you could be able to comment on it. both me and GF did not take any Armour before the labs in the am. We both take 1 grain in the am, and 1 grain in the PM around 4PM, would you just take a half grain less since the above mid range FT4?
Me: FT4 1.7 Range 0.82-1.77
FT3 4.2 Range 2.0-4.4
GF: FT4 1.99
FT3 4.3
RT3 14 (no range)
Gianluca
Janie, if you could give me some guidance here, as I’m a bit lost.
As I wrote in the above comment, my FT4 on 2 grains came back at 1.7, not even at 4 weeks marker since the previous increase, but a few days before. FT3 top range also. I decreased my dose of half grain less, and I feel better I think. Do you think I need perhaps to lower another half grain to lower that FT4 to mid range from 1.7?.I decreased my dose just a little bit over two weeks ago.
I read your book and blog, so I know 1 grain is a starting dose, and I’m not pulling neither here. The blood test to me clearly showed 2 grains is too much. I take 500mcg Iodine as well, so I suspect that is helping. I have seen many people needing to cut the dose substantially when starting some Iodine
Janie Bowthorpe
If a range goes up to 1.7, we definitely don’t want to be “above” 1.4ish, otherwise, it’s too much FT4, and the body attempts to clear it out by converting the excess FT4 to the inactive RT3. i.e. RT3 moves up, and we don’t want that either. Lowering the FT4 to midrange will usually make the FT3 a bit too low.
UPDATE: I accidentally put “excess FT3”. It’s now changed to “excess FT4”.
Gianluca
Thank you Janie. My guess then, is that if we need to lower FT4 to midrange and FT3 comes back a bit too low, we may need to add some T3 if we still have symptoms. I will wait another two weeks this way and pull another FT4/FT3, but I hope that with 30mg less my FT4 goes down to midrange, I feel pretty good over all on 90mg, probably still a tiny bit too much, I’m always hungry.
thank you J god bless you!
Janie
Janie when decreasing the NDT dose, is going down with half grain every two weeks a good strategy?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi.l’m having to scroll back past a lot of others posts to reread your previous posts, and it’s getting confusing figuring everything out. This might work better by you scheduling a coaching call. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/coaching-call
Angi
I have been struggling for several years now to get my thyroid straight. I have no thyroid due to cancer. It was removed in 2014. I did well on synthroid once we got to a level where I felt good. I started a low carb/keto diet in January of 2016 and lost 77 lbs in the first 11 months. My dr lowered my synthroid dosage. Then my weight loss stopped, then started creeping up again…I begged her to try something different as that was the only thing that had changed. I spent the next 3 years gaining back 45 of the 77 that I had lost and searching for a dr who would listen to me. I fired my endo and after several crazy drs (one tried to take me off of my meds for 6 weeks to get a “baseline”…I don’t have a thyroid. my baseline is ZERO! I now am so lucky to have a functional dr (I drive 2 hours to see her) who asks me what I think we need to do…we have tried various things, we tried NDT (I Never felt good on it) Went back to synthroid but added t3, and now I am back on the dosage of synthroid that I was when I originally lost the weight. The Only way I have been able to lose anymore weight is to do alternate day fasting. and then it is just a little here and there. I still have about 30 lbs to get to where I was before the change in dosage. I just had labs done, and my free t3 is showing a little high. I have another appointment after the first of the year. I am not sure where to ask to go from here medication wise. She ordered a complete metobolic panel as well as other standard blood tests. She is very receptive to anything I want to try, I just don’t know where to go next. Any help would be so greatly appreciated!
Karla
Welcome back, Janie! My deepest condolences for your loss!
I found your blog many years ago and am forever grateful to you! I am wondering if you or anyone on here has also experienced or know what is going on with “new method and reference range effective 7/18/2022” for thyroid tests? Specifically, I had both my FT4 and FT3 tested and had this note on both, and the reference range has changed – FT3 went from the top of 5.2 down to 4.4? I just recently had my blood drawn to check my levels and what is reported seems way high and inaccurate and this note is on both values – I am just trying to find any information about this change to the method and reference range?? THANK YOU for any help you can provide.
All the best and happy holidays! ~Karla
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Karla and thank you.
Actually, the top of the free T3 range at 4.4 has been around for several years. Most of the time, the top is either 4.2 or 4.4. It’s as if the lab facility you use it just now catching up.
Karla
Thank you so much for your response, Janie! That is mind blowing! My lab results I’m in Santa Fe NM, from June 2022 have the top being 5.2, and then this new test states “New method and reference range as of July 2022”, so just after my last blood test in June. Do you know if this new method gives the same results so to speak? Meaning, if my FT3 was at 5.3 in June – and then I get this new test and haven’t changed anything – it should still be in that same range – or would the new translation be different? I guess I’m asking what does “new method and reference range” mean – in the new method -is the overall measurement of FT3 and FT4 the same as the previous method – just a different range? OR, are the measurements different altogether in what will come up as a number in this range? Funny that I’m this behind the times in Santa Fe NM…I’ve been thinking that optimal FT3 is as close to 5.2 on the old scale as possible for many years now. Curious if the new “methods” of measuring have anything to do with such a drastically different reading without changing my medication? Thank you again for your time and assistance, it is invaluable to have you back!! I’m VERY GRATEFUL you are back, and glad to know that you are taking good care to allow yourself the time you need to heal and grieve. All the best to you and yours! ~Karla
Janie Bowthorpe
Your result should come back “in relation to” the new improved range.
Karla
Thank you so much, Janie! It’s strange, I’m taking Nutri-Meds and a bit of T3 compounded – my last blood test had my FT3 at 5.3, which was slightly high (at the range with the top at 5.2), so we lowered my T3 slightly and expected it would go down into 5.1 or so, but with the new method and range my FT3 was 5.8. I would think that at 5.8 I would have heart palpitations (typical for me if hyper), which I do not have hyper symptoms. Either way, it’s strange that we lowered my medication and both my FT4 and FT3 are elevated way high and over the range. I am talking with my doctor tomorrow, so hopefully we will find some answers and I will proceed forward trying to get balanced yet again – since NP Thyroid went down the tube! 🙂 All the best and thank you again!!
Betty
Did np thyroid have a huge increase? A few months ago I paid 48.00 and now paying 135.00 for 90 tablets of 90mgs
Janie Bowthorpe
That sounds terribly high. Call around to different pharmacies.
Betty
I have and it is almost the same
Tammy Meier
I too have experienced a similar increase in price for NP thyroid. I checked Good Rx and every pharmacy is showing the same huge increase. Does anyone have any suggestions for a substitute. I’ve done very well for a number of years on NP and hate the thought of trying something else.
Brenda
Yes – total increase where I am for NP thyroid (upstate NY). Good RX no longer offers a discount. Last month I paid $80, just today $94 and the pharmacist was encouraging me to try levothyroxine to save money – unbelievable. So I did a quick google and found this article which I haven’t verified just yet: https://anh-usa.org/fda-attacks-natural-thyroid/
Also this states the same => https://www.palomahealth.com/learn/natural-desiccated-thyroid-drugs
Very concerning information if the above are true. Each article gives action steps to take. I’ll pay the higher fee to feel better, but wow – to not even have that as an option takes my breathe away.
Janie – sorry to hear your news. My deepest condolences to you. Take care of yourself.
Janie Bowthorpe
The articles are about compounded NDT, not about NDT in general. Thank you for your condolences.
Sarah
Hi Janie, very sorry to hear of your loss. I can imagine the grief. Seen it, and have felt it too. Leaning on God and knowing he has all the answers is the key to obtaining comfort. I am new to your page and blog. I come to you with a few questions, I hope you can shed some light on.
I have never had any thyroid issues, nor family history. But, I had taken a high dose prescription of aspirin for 10 days after a knee surgery. I ended up in the ER and was tested for aspirin toxicity came back as negative. But, Er Dr. Said it could have still been that.
I had all the symptoms of a Hyperthyroidism reaction. Rapid heart beat, very dry mouth and anxiety that was like nothing I experienced before.
I then went for a checkup to my Drs. Office and they had me do a neck X-Ray because I was experiencing neck pain. Within a week my thyroid swelled up and it was quite painful. I had an MRI and it was hurting during that.
I was sent for ultrasound on my thyroid and yes, it was enlarged with 3 nodules, that I never knew I had, A biopsy came back benign.But, it was just like they appeared over night with the enlarged thyroid.
I have been going to have lab test done on regular basis and my labs they say are all in normal range TSH is a little under 1. I went to a Endo surgeon for possible Alcohol Ablation and was told I wouldn’t be a candidate, but could be for radio frequency ablation.
The Endo Dr. Told me though he thought in three months I would probably not feel a need anyway. I guess thinking the swelling will go down.
He also mentioned a lot of grayish speckled matter. Do you have any idea why the aspirin reaction would cause this? Then I thought well maybe it was the xray , could that have caused it?
I don’t know, but my thyroid is causing me pain in ear and side of neck. I do not want to have it removed.
It has been 6 months now since reaction and X-Ray and swelling took place. Is there anything you have heard that helps to Bring my swelling down. I am hoping it will just heal itself.
I am on no medicines, only take vitamin D and Zinc sometimes magnesium. I also started drinking sea salt in water on and off. Thank you and Prayers for your comfort and oeace .
Janie Bowthorpe
Though normal amounts of aspirin rarely affect our thyroids, you mentioned a high dose. And that could have done it. And if I was in your shoes, I’d first ask for both thyroid antibodies. Anti-TPO and anti-thyroglobulin. Taking high dose aspirin for as long as you did could have caused subacute thyroiditis.
Diane Blair
Need some help please. I have both books and follow as much as I can but as you know the cost of NP went up so much I can no longer pay for it so my Dr suggested we go to Levothyroxin and add Liothyronine to it. I was at 3 grains 2 in morning and one at night so now she says 100 mcg 3 times a day and add 5 mcg mid day . What do you think of this???I just turned 70 a few days ago and feel like crape. Have not started yet as I still have a few NP left. Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
We as patients have found Tirosint to be a better way to get T4, along with a working brand of T3 like Cytomel or Sigma Pharm. One grain of NDT = 38 mcg T4 and 9mcg T3. So 3 grains equals 114mcg T4 and 27 mcg T3. So hell no is 5mcg T3 enough. Typical paltry dose done by clueless doctors. But, you also need to know where your RT3 is. If that T4 is converting to RT3 (three reasons mentioned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3) you would need far less T4, a little more T3, and correct the three issues.
Lynda
Hi Janie,
good to hear from you! You mght want to hear about this case against Merck and their Levthyrox (new formula) in France. They’ve been ordered to pay over 3000 plaintiffs €1000 each after they experienced, and cl.aimed, that the new formulation didin’t work.
A total of 295 and 42 775 (adverse) reports for the old formulation and new formulation, respectively, were retrieved, with 149 and 5503 medically confirmed.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Levothyrox-controversy-Lyon-court-wins-payout-for-patients-from-manufacturer-pharmaceutical-Merck
Janie Bowthorpe
When we as thyroid patients are already faced with far too many ignorant doctors who push the TSH, this is actually good news.
AWhitney
Janie, your blog has been a lifesaver. I have a very complicated condition that seemed to start with thyroid presentation but it was a mitochondrial disorder – 4 yrs and probably 50 Drs. later I have some idea how to manage it, but it was the thyroid presentation and my “almost normal” labs that were like red herrings and kept throwing Drs. off the track. I kept coming back to your lab values posts and it took time but I found an allergist who figured out the source of inflammation – radiation and MTHFR – that was throwing my thyroid and metabolism out of whack. I don’t treat thyroid (it’s normal most of the time now), but I also figured out I don’t treat a number of other things (supplementing mostly makes things worse) and my body is starting to turn around. I’ve worked closely with a functional medicine nutritionist (there are no functional medicine Drs. here which is unbelievable, I’m in a large metro area in NY) – and over the last several months she has started using the information here to evaluate labs for patients, especially when they don’t make sense.
I cannot express enough gratitude, after 5 endocrinologists dismissed me despite being bed-bound from tachycardia and dehydration, I finally knew what to do so the next endocrinologist could see the pattern for hypoglycemia (which causes hormone dysregulation and can knock HPA Axis and thyroid out together). Anyway, thank you and many blessings!
Sandra
I’ve not been here for sometime but need to say how much of a blessing you are to us all and all you do educating us.
I also want to say I’m so very sorry to hear of your pain and your loss. Your being there for your loved one when they needed you most is such a special gift you gave them and I hope that you are able to now take sometime for you.
Bless you and thank you
Leisa Forman
Been on all t3/HC for 12 years. Recent keto OMAD with terrible stress from a family member loss( sorry for yours as well. I’m unable to control the anxiety pray for healing) lost too much weight labs still show totally surpressed tsh, ft3 near top of level, but sudden new extreme anxiety. Doctor says high beaver top calcium means I need to add t4. And probably have a problem with hyperparathyroid causing high calcium. Is lowering t3 and adding t4 the right thing to do? I feel I just got messed up due to stress and weight loss.
Janie Bowthorpe
Doctors are solely trained about T4. So they unthinkingly think that when a problem arises, we need more T4. Not necessarily so. In fact, in the face of stress, that FT4 will start converting to the inactive RT3. Doctors are poorly trained about that. So if our free T3 isn’t optimal, it’s T3 we need.
Hyperparathyroid doesn’t make anyone feel good. Treatment often reverses that. I have a friend with hyperthyroid who was feeling worse and worse, and they kept saying “Let’s wait another 6 months.” Then again “Let’s wait another 6 months.”…all while she was getting worse and worse. She on her own found a surgeon to take out the two bad parathyroids, and she felt so much better!
Grief is a bitch if you lost someone close. That alone stresses the adrenals. So we have to do whatever we can to calm ourselves down (I used meditation and calming supplements) and I only choose to do things that give me joy.
Jennifer B
So nice to have you back, Janie. I hope these blogs posts will get back to me.
I just had tests (only ones paid for by insurance)
TSH 42.340 (.0400 – 5.000) Critical Low
T3 total 1.41 (0.59 – 1.74)
T4 Free 0.6 (0.7 -2.0)
I was given 65 mgs of Nature Throid …does this seem like enough or too little? And I am finding it difficult
to find desiccated hormone in my area. Are they trying to discontinue it? Is there anywhere
we can purchase online? Thank you.
Janie Bowthorpe
Unless something has changed, Naturethroid production was halted in 2020 by the FDA due to a recall. So not sure what you are on?
Total T3 is measuring mostly bound, unusable T3. We need the free T3, which measures what is unbound and available.
60 or 65 of any NDT is simply a starting dose from which we raise from. I would strongly recommend you order this: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/ and study chapter 2.
Jennifer B
Yes, they told me Nature Throid was discontinued at the time but they had some on the shelf so I asked for that anyway. It seems to be working well but I won’t be able to find more. What desiccated brand works best now for most folks? And who can I order from if I cannot find it locally? Thanks, Janie…. and happy holidays to all.
Janie Bowthorpe
Contrary to those few who are determined to catastrophize and blame all their problems on Armour, or are not truly looking at their saliva cortisol levels or aldosterone, Armour IS IN FACT still working for the vast majority. There aren’t many places to get it without a prescription.
Kathy Hartzler
Janie I need your guidance. I have very low cortisol in the AM you and I had a coaching call you suggested 1/4 tsp hydrocortisone applied in a variety of places to help bring up that low reading. Doc wont rx HC tablets. Now after a month or so my face is red and swollen. I’m wondering if Hydrocortisone applied to other locations on my body can be causing this facial flushing with hive like spots? I’m reducing the amount a little daily to get off the protocol and will retest w/saliva testing. Thank you
Ralph Lewis
Good Morning Janie ,
Years back I had 1st found “Stop The Thyroid Madness” and your later “Stop The Thyroid Madness II” and have shared your information links with many others – including MD’s and other health professionals.
After retiring as a too-busy Industrial-construction Electrician, I admit the COVID Plandemic / $CAMdemic had displaced me from attention to your Internet sites. ( – too busy searching for censored viral-truths from HONEST, clinical doctors )
Anyway, I feel “back in the thyroid groove” and I’m sure many others are grateful your wisdom is again back online to shine !
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Ralph. I had to drop doing blog posts awhile for my sanity. Losing someone significant is not easy. But I at least continue to do coaching calls and that works for me.
Julie Scarsbrook
Janie, so sorry to hear about your loss. I have been using your wisdom for years, your book was a life saver.
J
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not fun to go through a grief journey when you lose someone highly significant. But it can be done and time helps. I just had to drop posting on the blog for awhile. But I still do coaching calls.
Linda L Schneider
I am so utterly sorry to hear about your loss. Its traumatizing. As you know, we dont get over it, but we get through it. My heart goes out to you and I understand….people who you dont even know care, and they understand.
Janie Bowthorpe
Thank you for that, Linda. Losing someone this significant is a hell of a journey. I have been able to continue all the coaching calls I do, but had to pull back on other parts of my activism for a little while. This is not for the faint of heart,
Jennifer
Janie,
I’m very sorry about your loss of a loved one. It can be overwhelming.
I just became aware that the FDA has declared desiccated thyroid extract (DTE) to be a biologic drug and therefore ineligible for compounding. I found out when I called my compounding pharmacy this morning for a refill. Do you think there’s any chance of that being overturned?
Janie Bowthorpe
There are push-backs going on. Here are two. It will take a lot of effort but worth it as nutty as this is by the FDA.
https://anh-usa.org/fda-attacks-natural-thyroid/
https://a4pc.org/
Linda L Schneider
I just got my letter today and Im shaking….please start writing these places to file a complaint. The one on my letter is: compounding@fda.hhs.gov. was told by the pharmacist to also contact your state representitives.
Michael D
Hi Janie, I am very, very sorry to hear about your loss.
I also wanted to send a big ‘thank you’ your way for all of your efforts on thyroid wisdom and related topics! You have helped so many for years, and you have just helped me yet again (more on that below). I have been following your website for a handful of years, and have learned a great deal about T3, NDTs, optimal lab values, and so much more. My wife had her thyroid removed (cancer) years ago and I have Hashi’s, so we’ve both benefited from your wisdom. We are both in our 30s.
Very recently, I stumbled on one of your pages about iron which led me to discover an issue. I have been using NDT or T4+T3 for a few years, and other than the very beginning, I have not felt good. The usual fatigue and brain fog, with a few other symptoms. I was able to get my T3 Free in the top quarter of the range (also tried the top third) and my T4 Free in the very middle of the range, but the symptoms were still there. I mean, there was some improvement, but overall I still felt lousy. I thought, “what else is there to check” and “will I ever feel normal again”? I was let down after all the efforts to get the lab values in their ideal ranges (including fighting with the Endo to ignore the super low TSH) and still not feeling good in the end. Then I saw the Iron page and it reminded me of my iron results that my doctor has run at different times when I complained of easy exhaustion. It turns out that my serum iron and TIBC are both above the range, the % saturation is near the top of the range, and my ferritin is on the low side, especially for a male (when looking at your optimal lab values page).
Iron Total: 184 mcg/dL HIGH (Lab range 50 – 180 mcg/dL)
TIBC: 459 mcg/dL HIGH (Lab range 250 – 425 mcg/dL)
% Saturation: 40 % (Lab range 20 – 48 %)
Ferritin: 66 ng/mL (Lab range 38 – 380 ng/mL)
My primary doctor didn’t understand how the iron and TIBC were both high. He was confused and said usually when one is high, the other is low, and vice versa. But, he wasn’t too concerned since the values were “only a little high”, and referred me to my Endo to review it. My Endo essentially said the same thing. Eyeroll. I wasn’t really satisfied with this answer but I didn’t know what else to do at that point. A third doctor also said the same thing, that there wasn’t a concern because they were “barely above the range”. So I thought I was the crazy one and left it alone. Keep in mind, I went back and found labs that my doctor ran for iron (all 4 tests above) in 2017 and they were all basically the same as above. So this has been an issue for at least 5 years, and we had the labs sitting right there in front of us, but no one knew what to do!
And so from your Iron page, it looks like I have methylation issues (and I’m probably in a ‘low iron’ state)! Yours was the only website I could find that mentioned a reason for both high iron and TIBC at the same time. Thank you for having this info available!! I now have something to go after instead of feeling stuck/hopeless. I will be getting tested for MTHFR and will start working through whatever treatment is necessary. I had seen your MTHFR page in the past, but I was overwhelmed/didn’t understand genetic mutations at all, so I think it skipped over it thinking it was not applicable to me.
For all those still reading, I say all of this to encourage you – if you got your thyroid values in their optimal ranges (not just anywhere in the lab ranges) and you still don’t feel right, keep searching! There are other things that could be the cause!
Janie Bowthorpe
Michael, your willingness to read what patients have learned for 20 years makes me feel so humbly proud and glad I created STTM for someone just like YOU who is willing to read. Because you hit it all on the nail. You aren’t breaking it down for use, thus in a low iron state. Plus, you didn’t mention RT3. Low iron pushes the inactive hormone RT3 up, and that can also make you feel less than great. Take the time to study this page. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Michael D
Janie, thank you for the info on the link between low iron and RT3. That is very interesting and would definitely explain my symptoms. Also, I wanted to follow up and let you know that my MTHFR results came back and I have 2 copies of the C677T mutation (aka homozygous C677T). I guess this would confirm why my iron results were the way they were! Now I have something to start treating! Again, thank you for providing the knowledge on this website, it has been invaluable.
Janie Bowthorpe
Being homozygous 677 can definitely push iron up for some if those mutations are active. You are welcome! This is one reason I like doing coaching calls–people hearing me say what we’ve learned as patients really seems to get through!! By the way, you also have to rule out hemochromatosis, another mutation-caused problem when both iron and ferritin are high! It’s the HFE gene. If that’s the cause, you give blood.
David Ferry
My wife is a Np thyroid taker – some 60 years now. We recently lost our primary care doctor and just interviewed with a new one. This doctor claims that T3 causes or amplifies atrial fibrillation (which my wife has had for 2 years). and suggests going on Synthroid. She has been on that route and Synthroid does not work in her system Is there an adverse effect of T3 and AF?
Been following STTM since its beginning – it’s great!
Janie Bowthorpe
Just an FYI: NP Thyroid hasn’t been around for 60 years. Maybe you mean desiccated thyroid.
And that comment about T3 can be based on patients who, if they have a cortisol problem, then raise T3, it can cause hyper-like symptoms like a higher heartrate or palps. But that’s not due to the T3. It’s due to what the T3 raise is revealing, which is this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info We are light years ahead of doctors about all this.
And you might want to read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/afib/
Carol Florio
Canada,s Universal Drugs has changed the dessicated thyroid I have used for years. Anyone know if they will get the old formula back? Or where to get a similar one? Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Carol, we need more information than that. What was your latest free T3, free T4 and RT3 with ranges?
Carol Florio
As long as I stay on 60mg of dessicated thyroid my labs are all within range. Problem is I am running out of what universal drug had in past. The new formula causes severe muscle tightening side effects. Will they be returning to old formula ?
Janie Bowthorpe
Carol, your problem can be from only staying on 60 mg. That is simply a starting dose. We have found repeatedly that we are not meant to stay on only a starting dose without raising. Otherwise we start having problems.
Lab results are not about being anywhere in the normal range. That’s another important point we discovered. Lab results are about where you fall in the range. Read about the goal we have learned for years now: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Terry
Sending hugs your way. I lost my FIL suddenly this spring (rare non Hodgkin’s lymphoma). Still working thru things with my hubby’s step mom.
Learning from your website I’ve been able to talk to customers who come into our natural foods and wellness store about what tests to ask for (yep the Drs in my area still chase TSH – even an IFM Dr). I’ve given them your website as well as what labs to ask for and in some instances the names of Drs I know who don’t shy away from prescribing Cytomel.
I’m still working on my thyroid but thanks to your book and website I’m making progress!
melannie
Hi Janie,
I interested to know more about the intermittent fasting. Given how taxing it is on adrenals, i’m curious about it’s safe uses. If you have more info to share or resources you could point me to that would be great!
Melannie
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. You stated “given how taxing it is on the adrenals”—according to whom?? I’m betting you read that opinion somewhere on the internet. And we all tend to read something on the internet, or hear it stated firmly by someone in a group, and get fooled by the black and white aspect of it. It’s like that time a year ago that a particular someone exclaimed in black and white emphasis that NO NDT’S WORK. Yet, numerous people were still doing well on Armour with labs to prove it when that was yelled…and that is still the fact today if someone understands what an “optimal” free T3 and free T4 mean (by reading the article on optimal, which too many don’t), and having a low or below range RT3, plus good cortisol levels.
I for one, have never, ever had fasting cause my adrenals to be taxed by it. I’ve even done it when I was stressed and it didn’t make my adrenals worse.
Now there is the possibility that someone with low cortisol could have noticed a problem when they did it. Yet others have reported doing it with low cortisol and they have reported no issue!! Opposites!! So we have to consider “individuality”. The statement that it’s “taxing on the adrenals” is too global when you read experience with intermittent fasting.
Even Dr. Berg believes that fasting helps the adrenals, even with a cortisol problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EctvVSwWSQ The answer may be to make sure you eat a good meal before the time you start into fasting. Plus to go SLOWLY in the amount of time you do intermittent fasting. I went slowly went I started, meaning I did NOT go until noon or 1pm before eating again. I built up to that. So being gradual in the time one does the fasting may be a good answer.
Tea
Janie, “grief is love with nowhere to go”…. I’m sorry for your loss. I know it all too well. Thank you for the strength, wisdom and knowledge you give to so many including me 🙂
Lorie
Hey, me again.
Have you tried CoQ10? It is good for insulin control. It’s also good for the liver and kidneys as well as the heart. And it’s good for energy as it feeds the mitochondria and it helps with brain fog. It’s safe even in high doses. Though too much can upset your stomach or make you feel jittery. But that’s and easy fix. Find a low dose bottle (30mg) and start with that and increase until you find the optimal dose for whatever you’re taking it for. Adrenal people may find higher doses may cause crashes.
Heather Green
Hi Janie. Welcome back and so sorry for your loss! I was wondering if you had heard accounts of those on T3 monotherapy for several years that, when they tried to incorporate a natural dessicated thyroid, their FT4 numbers did not come up by very much (e.g .4 to .46). This was after 2.5 months of decreasing the T3 and adding Ancestral Thyroid. FT3 was also very suboptimal in labs after this switch. Perhaps the supplement is just not enough in this scenario? Thoughts appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Heather. T4 won’t come up much on desiccated thyroid if someone is underdosing. Same with Free T3.
And ancestral is cow-sourced, so no telling what it will do when batches are not regulated.
Shelly Paige
Janie, I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my Dad last September and I am still struggling to get back to my routine. Take your time to grieve and go at your own pace.
Would you give an update on what NDT’s are still considered “working”? Is Armour still the best NDT option, at this point?
Janie Bowthorpe
We are in a state where it varies. Some state they are still doing quite well on Armour; others feel it’s not working. But the “not working” appears to be a single batch issue here or there more than a widespread issue.
Diane Blair
Hi Jamie I was wondering if NP THYROID is messed up again I have looked everywhere to see if there is a new recall but only see lawyers. I had a great Dr but we moved my new Dr is willing to do whatever for me but…. I have gained almost 49 pounds in 3 months or less as I set here I am freezing and it’s 90 plus outside. My THS is creeping up a little the same old story cant sleep, losing what hair is left on and on. I am 69 and on 60 three times each day. Oh yeah, i have had a very high ferritin level but coming down a little.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi there Diane. From one patient to another, gaining/being freezing/rising TSH/hair loss and etc can be because a high ferritin equals inflammation, and inflammation is one of three causes of rising RT3, the inactive hormone. You might want to consider getting your RT3 tested. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Also, high ferritin means the body is pushing iron into storage, which ferritin is, and is the result of the inflammation, and that can lower your iron levels. https://stopthethyroidomadness.com/inflammation
John Brown
I came across this Blog in my search for some answers to my health problems. If there is someone that may have some direction to point me, that would be appreciated. I suffer from almost all of the symptoms of hypo thyroid but I am a man and so I cannot get a Dr in my area to look into my thyroid as something that could be what is causing the problem. I had some blood work done and because my TSH was normal my Dr said my thyroid was fine, however, both my FreeT3 and TotalT3 were high and my T4 was normal. Maybe my Dr is right but I have thought something is off for years and because I am a guy and I have been told men don’t normally have thyroid problems I have wandered down the hopeless trail.
Janie Bowthorpe
We as patients have repeatedly learned over the years that we can never, ever go by the TSH alone. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
So it’s on our shoulders to find a doctor we can guide.
Amber
My uncle has hypothyroidism, as do my mom, grandma, and myself. So while yes women suffer from hypothyroidism more often, men absolutely can and so have hypothyroidism as well. I hope you find your answers.
Gianluca
I’m glad you are back, and sorry for your loss.
In the updated version of the book, you give a few examples of HC dosing, with the first dose taken first thing in the AM, should i take that immediately upon rising with my NDT or later with breakfast, which is generally at least an hour later or more
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
We can take it first thing in the morning with thyroid meds.
It should also be mentioned that taking HC when our free T3 is pooling, meaning way over range, can cause that T3 to rush in the cells like a son of a gun and cause hyper like symptoms. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
Gianluca
Thanks for you response. Do you think adrenal patients need to start the NDT as 30mg in the am and 30mg in the PM, or that is ok to start with the introductory dose of 1 grain in the am, then building up the next dose in the PM?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Either way have worked. 🙂
Gianluca
Janie, thanks for responding to my comments. Your book has been very helpful, and easy to understand i wish I had read it years ago!
Couple days after my rise going from 1/2 grain to 1 grain, I experienced some pretty noticeable hyper symptoms, two of which were speediness and increased sweating, along with some good benefits though . I’m thinking my body needs to adopt to it. But how long does generally take for the body to adjust to the new dose, before I decide this is too much for now?
I’m on about 25mg HC, and I have also a low aldosterone to treat, but the hyper symptoms didn’t really feel like the usual adrenal hyper.
Janie Bowthorpe
Having hyperlike symptoms after a raise to such a small amount as one grain is about this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling And the latter can be due to that low aldosterone, we as informed patients have discovered for years how. Also, 25 mg HC is simply a starting dose and for women. Time to read Chapter 6 in this book: https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
Gianluca
Janie
My Hydrocortisone has as a filler some calcium stearate, greenstone brand. Should I not take it with my Thyroid because the calcium?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s probably such a tiny amount that you’ll be fine. And the calcium problem is more about with thyroid meds. 🙂
Gianluca
Janie, I much appreciate your responses. I really wish I read your book years ago!
do you think the “morning before rise” temperature is still a reliable measure of thyroid function, even if I’m on the Hydrocortisone?
Janie Bowthorpe
Using a temp to discern hypothyroid is more about doing it around 3pm. In the US, it should be close to 98.6. But….there are other issues which can affect one’s temp. So we concluded that a temp alone may not be reliable enough in some cases.
Gianluca
Janie I hope you are having a wonderful weekend, thank you for your work, 20 years or thyroid patients records is amazing, thank god for that!
I find myself needing to raise my NDT dose, currently at 1 grain, and I also need to raise my 1/4 tab Fludrocortisone. Would you do one in particular before the other, or both around same time should be ok?
thank you for your guidance
by the way, is there any particular place I could write a review about your work or book? please let me know
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, STTM is now about 20 years of compiling worldwide patient reported experiences and observations in getting well. And I only compile what is consistent among patients.
One grain is simply a starting dose from which we raise every two weeks or so by 1/2 grain, slowing down in the 2 grain area and doing labs to see where we are. This is the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And to anyone reading this: If a raise causes hyper-like symptoms like higher heartrate, palps, anxiety, etc, that can point to a cortisol problem needing a saliva test https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ to see what needs treatment. Chapter 6 in the updated revision STTM book with blue-gray cover. You will also read about low aldosterone which is a second adrenal issue that so many end up with.
I would personally raise Fludrocortisone first. You did the aldosterone lab to prove you needed it, right? What about your cortisol levels? Low aldosterone doesn’t stand alone: it accompanies a cortisol problem that we also treat.
Gianluca
Yes, I did the Aldosterone test and it was low. I’m going to increase the .025mg Fludrocortsione to .05mg, hold it for 7 days then increase the NDT. I believe .05mg Fludrocortisone may be an ok dose for now, and it is really time to go up with my NDT.
Cortisol also came low at 3 points, beside the am one. I’m on 27,5mg HC, 10/10/5/2,5 I checked my temps last week, and they were stable. However, my doc left me a script for 35mg HC if need to go up that much. But he told me to check the ACTH level, and if it goes below 10, to reduce my HC dose.
I know in your book the HC protocol for male start with 12mg in the am, but I’m just concern taking more than 10mg all in once in the am, will decrease more my ACTH for the day. I will take my temps in another week or so after the Fludrocortisone increase.
thank you again for you help Janie
Gianluca
Janie, when I was on 1/4 tab of the Fludrocortisone I tested my Renin and it came back at 1.063, on a scale 0.167 – 5.830, do i need to be concerned about this low level?
I also increased my Fludrocortisone to 1/2 tablet for the past two weeks, so potentially my Renin is a bit lower now. I also believe I started to experience insomnia from it, but only for the past few days
Janie Bowthorpe
It appears that if you do just a regular blood test, it will look falsely low since it really should be testing plasma and collected in a chilled blood sample and spun–the latter which isn’t usually done. In the meantime, certain doctors over the years have directly patients to consume a lot more potassium when on Florinef.
Gianluca
Thank you Janie. The test I took it was a Plasma Renin Activity, I’m buying blood test on my own.
I generally get 4/5grs of Potassium from my diet.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, we can need a lot of potassium, for sure, when low aldosterone goes on awhile, and on Florinef.
mark olinyk
Hello… Sorry for your loss.. Do u know or anyone know what NDT can be be bought without a script that actually works? I tried the Thailand thyroid s and found it didnt do much .. I have tried nature-throid and felt it was doing something.
Janie Bowthorpe
Some differences can be due to different fillers, we suspect, somehow slowing down absorption. So with thyroid-s, which before had quite a lot of fillers, one might need slightly more to achieve the same good results as an American-made product before something went wrong with it. Also, be sure to have fully read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Monique
Hi Janie, so sorry to hear about your loss. It’s inspiring to hear how you took time out to take care of yourself, grieve and heal. And we appreciate you coming back to support our community as well.
I have a question about being on T3 only which is the only dosage that works for me with the least side effects (I’m on 85 mcg currently). Both my endo and general MD have said that to get pregnant and stay pregnant I would need to add T4 to my meds. Preferably before I get pregnant. Do you have any experience with women on T3 only and pregnancy? I’m not ready to get pregnant just yet but when the time comes I’d like to be prepared. Any advice you have from experience would be helpful!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Monique. All I can say to you, as someone who has been listening to and collecting patient reported experiences and observations for 20 years, it’s never been about just “having T4 in our treatment”. Yes, some do have T4 in their treatment, but some don’t and are just on T3. And it’s been about being out of our hypothyroid state when it comes to getting pregnant. This explains what that means, and note the free T3: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Doctors are generally only trained about T4 in their medical schools. This is why they tend to put the emphasis on it. But we are light years ahead of them. our repeated and worldwide experiences show that what they are saying to you is the wrong focus, even if having T4 in our treatment is fine, since it can convert to T3 for us in the background. But we have learned that even more important is that T3 in our treatment, too, (or by itself) and where to get the free T3.
sandra
Janie,
I am so very sorry to hear of your loss, your loved one was very blessed to have you by their side during such times and I am sending prayers of kindness to yourself, rest and recovery and in hopes you continue to look after yourself.
Thank you for all you have done for us and bless you!
Sandra
Lorie
Glad to see you back. I’ve been thinking about you. I am so sorry for your loss. I was my brother’s caretaker for the last 6 months of his life, he passed in October 2017. I cherish the time I had with him, as he moved in with me so I could better take care of him, but it almost destroyed me. My adrenals were already weak and I needed to go back on higher doses of cortisone just to make it through the day of doctor’s appointments, radiation and chemo appointments, meal prep (he lost his tongue to cancer so he was tube fed, I had to blend all his meals) and wound care (he had two flap surgeries for tongue reconstruction which caused a huge wound on his abdomen and pectoralis muscle when the first flap failed), plus all his medications. I’m still struggling because the stress hasn’t gotten better, just new stresses. My husband has been out of work for almost a year now. We’ve been surviving on savings, but it’s been tough.
Jan Kasza
You’re the Best!
Linda Burns
My deepest condolences Janie, and I am so sorry for your loss. I just wanted to share how much you helped me. Approximately 13 years ago I began experiencing secondary infertility after easily conceiving and carrying 2 children. Bloodwork showed that I was ‘subclinical’ hypothyroid but no doctor was willing to treat me. But from reading your info, I trusted myself enough not to give up. Thankfully I found a Dr 1 hour away who was willing to prescribe meds, and within a short time I was pregnant.
Your knowledge, books, website, and more have empowered me to take charge of my health, and to share my knowledge with my friends, family, and practitioners. I await the day, when I believe the medical establishment will come round and acknowledge that this is the optimal way to go, and you will deserve a lot of credit!!
Wishing you much continued comfort and strength, Linda
Janie Bowthorpe
So happy to read that getting those thyroid meds help you get pregnant!
Elle
My sincerest condolences to you . Your work has been such a blessing to me and now to my daughter and to so many others . Prayers of light , love , and peace to you and all affected by the loss of a loved one .
Deborah Olcott
Sending you condolences Jeannie. I am so sorry that you lost someone that you love so dearly and it sounds as if it was very hard on you and very beautiful to be by their side. Of course the grieving and recovery and healing all take time and shift. I am extremely grateful that you continue to be there for everyone struggling with thyroid challenges. You have certainly changed my life. And I am still working to get to an optimal place but you have given me so much hope (and so much information 🙂 to work with!! Thank you!!
Bernice Caruth
Hi Jamie
Sending hugs and love your way. Loneliness isn’t easy but maybe all of the people you are helping here can fill that void with love. I’m so glad to see you back. Your books and website are my source of fantastic, credible thyroid information.
When I read your first book many many times, my brain fog at that time was so bad that I could not apprehend a word. Well maybe the “the’s” and “ands.” Several years later I can now read the second book and understand it. Maybe not remember it all but can understand it.
I found a doctor in my local community who is my partner with thyroid treatment. My first visit probably was awkward as I felt that I had some credible information to share with her. She has since been more open and willing to hear what I have to share. First visit only TSH was done. Next visit I insisted on the full panel for thyroid and iron. I keep a spread sheet with my lab results and med changes and bring it with for my visits.
I have been on compounded T4/T3 for years, always with the T4 being higher. Recently, at my persistence, she has raised the T3 and lowered the T4. Amazing difference but still have more to do with cortisol and iodine testing again. I have other lab work every six weeks. A year or two ago she wanted to do blood cortisol and I said I would do saliva testing instead. She didn’t know much about the saliva test. My last visit she recommended the saliva test!!! A few months ago I eliminated all grains my diet, lost weight, and feel better. Now she is doing blood food sensitivity test to see where I have issues.
I have promoted your books and website and she said “there is good information.” Gentle persistence and information can help doctors become better doctors.
Without your information I don’t know where I would be. Welcome back, Jamie. We have missed you so much.
Philippa Snowdon
Janie, this is important. The effects on different people after re-formulation of drugs, is the addition of MANNITOL.
(Hence the successful demonstrations in France)
For me and for many, but not all of us, the inclusion of MANNITOL as an unlisted excipient stops the medicines from being absorbed. They are no longer bio-available. Take as much as you like, it can never work.
MANNITOL needs to be listed so we save money. SThyroid from Thailand has evidently added MANNITOL to its new formulation. It was very expensive. It used to really work for me. NO MORE.
All those others. I am so sorry. Add MANNITOL and it will never work for you.
housemaid
Phillipa, I am on Thyroid S and it has worked great for me. But the bottle I have been taking expires August 2022, meaning they were made in 2019. I have bought new bottles that expire in August 2024, meaning they were made in 2021. When did this addition of mannitol take place? I read that it acts as a diuretic and is poorly absorbed by the intestines. I guess that is why the pills don’t work. Have you tried chewing them? How do you know they contain mannitol since it is not listed as an ingredient? I am so upset as I am due to start on the new bottle in 2 weeks. None of the US brands including Armour worked for me after they all went bad, but Thyroid S did.
I cannot understand why manufacturers always have to mess with a good formulation. I have not looked at STTM in a long time, as I have been doing fine on Thyroid S. But what is the US brand that now works, if any?
RachelDLS
Hello Janie,
I want you to know how sorry I am for you and your loved one, and any other family and friends that are grieving. I too, just lost someone dear to my heart. It was wonderful to read your story this morning and hard at the same time. We each of us deal with grieve in separate ways, don’t we? For me, I found my music, which I had stopped doing because of my own health issues, to be a comfort, as I worked on songs for the memorial service. I am grateful that I was asked to do the music. It has brought that part of my life back into my life! I am hoping to do more of that now.
I am also so happy to hear about your waitress! It is funny, I talk to my waitresses as well, and ask them if there is anything they would like me to pray about for them. It is amazing some of the answers I have received!
I too, have to thank you for all you have done. I was quietly dying on Synthroid, even after they added Cytomel. I am now getting my Thyroid medication from a compounding pharmacy, as Armour does not work for me. I end up with a lot of joint pain when I take it. I suspect it is the corn in the Opadry White that causes it. Thankfully, my insurance reimburses me for a good part of the cost. I am so grateful to have found something that works so well! 🙂
I am so grateful to have found your site. I share the site name, with everyone I can. My doctor listens too, and even though she was reluctant to see me on Naturally Desiccated Thyroid medication at first, she has seen the improvement over the years, and now lets me run my own show in that department.
I am truly blessed!
Janie Bowthorpe
Glad you figured that out about the corn in Opadry White. And yes, we have to run our own show when so many doctors lag far behind in knowledge and end up keeping us sick. That’s why I created a patient to patient movement I call Stop the Thyroid Madness.
For others reading this, Armour can seem to not be working because you have never achieved this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Don’t skim it. Read it all. The information also applies to taking synthetic T4 with synthetic T3. Or even just T3.
Rosemary
Dear Janie, Condolences and thank you for being a caretaker. I’ve been there, and it is so much work and so rewarding. May your loved one Rest In Peace. This type of fasting has worked for me, but I drink coffee in the morning and then eat at 1 pm. I guess that’s not fasting. I do feel better if I start food later and I take Thyrovanz, also, late. Thanks for your post.
Lesli
Welcome back. So sorry for your loss. You have been a lifesaver for myself and my clients even while you were gone. Your work is irreplaceable. Go slow and know how much you mean to perfect strangers.
Janie Bowthorpe
Thank you for that, Lesli.
Rainbow
I’m so sorry to hear of the loss you’ve endured. I love this quote from WandaVision: “What is grief, if not love persevering?” The love never dies, but I know how difficult it is to redirect that love once the object of that love is gone.
Optimizing my autoimmune hypothyroidism did start me ovulating for the first time in my life (in my late 20s). Unfortunately, I was never able to conceive a child, but we had 10 embryos left over after IVF, and so far we’ve donated two of them to another family. It’s wonderful to watch these two genetic children grow up and be so loved, even if we’re not directly in their lives. Without your site and help, I never would have been healthy enough to even consider the rigors of IVF. So there are two more children who probably would not exist had it not been for your help 🙂
Janie Bowthorpe
That is so wonderful.
TRISHA
Does the pain ever go away? Maybe. Maybe not —. depending… on countless things. One cannot, I believe, limit the unlimited, or contain, the uncontainable! Still, in time, it will evolve — like it or not. But hopefully, we will evolve with it.
Upon reading these words some time ago, I found, and still FIND…. comfort herein. Somehow in one succinct sentence — it put everything into perspective and spike spike a truth to my heart and soul…. which continues to this very day, to give me comfort.
And those words: “As long as there is love, there will
always be loss.” HOW could it be otherwise? Still, I firmly believe, that in the LOVE…. there will ALWAYS be Light!
Mariya
Dear Janie. Condolences to you. Grief makes us stronger. I wish you strength, health and good luck. I hope you will continue to delight us with your lyrics.
Robin
Condolences from N.Z.
Cheryl Jansen
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Dorothy
My sincere condolences on your loss. It is hard to lose someone so close so please take care of you!!
Thank you for all the great work you do to help us all.
Lilian
So sorry to hear of your Loss Janie. You have my very deepest sympathy.
Michele
Great to see you Janie! Where would any of us be without you and STTM?! Half dead I’m sure, lol … being so grateful for you, we all send you BIG HUGS and love in your difficult times.
Mary Lou Vanda
So so sorry for your loss. When someone hears that a friend has experienced a profound loss, they share the grief. Janie, you are a friend to all of us. They want, so bad, to take the pain away but all they can do is be there to help support. Stay strong and busy. We will pray for you.
Gail
Janie, So sorry to hear you lost a loved one. Thank you for your latest post. Do take your time getting back to your regular schedule. There’s so much you’ve already done for this community that we can use to get answers!
Dawn
Dear Janie,
I am so, so sorry to read about your devastating loss. Please know you are not alone, as you have helped countless of us, we are here for you. Grief knows no bounds nor limits. Please allow yourself to feel whatever shows up in your body and mind, and acknowledge it’s there, and just do your best. There’s no right or wrong answer for how you respond.
Thank you for letting us be a part of your grief. May each day become a little easier for you, as heartache turns to warm memories that will be there forever.
I don’t see you as being aged. You look beautiful, as you always have. Your kindness radiates. That is timeless.
We love you!!
Dawn
Mary
Dear Janie, so very sorry about your dear one’s passing. Sending you blessings, prayers, and peace. Much appreciation for all you’ve done for all of us.
Mary
Jeanne
Janie you are a treasure! I’d heard of your loss and sending a HUGE hug. I am taking care of my elderly mom these days and it’s sure hard to see her decline. Little things like taking care of her bills and seeing her forget how to do things she was previously able to do! Hard but rewarding.
It’s been 34 years since my RAI for Graves and I am just now getting to where I should be -on T3 only! I have learned so much from you and grieve the decades I’ve lost to improper treatment. You are indeed a treasure and blessings on your healing journey.
oLt
My dear Janie:
So sorry to hear :(( May God comfort you and all morning the loss of a loved one. Please take extra good care of yourself during the healing/grieving process.
Stephanie Tackett
My deepest condolences on your loss. Thinking of you and wishing you strength and healing in this difficult time.
Cindy Zuniga
I’m so sorry for your loss. I have been a caretaker for family members that were very dear but I haven’t suffered grief to the depth you have. I do know it takes time and grief is not something you can suddenly still in a box and tuck it away. Our prayers and condolences go with you. We all appreciate all that you have done and do for us.
Trish
I’m so sorry for your loss. Wishing you comfort and blessings.
Trish
Trisha
anie,
If one can suffer too much loss, then I believe I may qualify. Still, I KNOW countless others have suffered way MORE than myself or what I could ever imagine! My heartfelt condolences to both you and Kristie whose first year anniversary of her son’s loss is fast approaching on June 30th. Sending you both Light and Love to Carry On!
And HERE is one of the BEST poems on the subject EVER written, for both of you, and ALL of you suffering a recent and/or wrenching loss!
CARRY ON!
It’s easy to fight when everything’s right,
And you’re mad with the thrill and the glory;
It’s easy to cheer when victory’s near,
And wallow in fields that are gory.
It’s a different song when everything’s wrong,
When you’re feeling infernally mortal;
When it’s ten against one, and hope there is none,
Buck up, little soldier, and chortle:
Carry on! Carry on!
There isn’t much punch in your blow.
You’re glaring and staring and hitting out blind;
You’re muddy and bloody, but never you mind.
Carry on! Carry on!
You haven’t the ghost of a show.
It’s looking like death, but while you’ve a breath,
Carry on, my son! Carry on!
And so in the strife of the battle of life
It’s easy to fight when you’re winning;
It’s easy to slave, and starve and be brave,
When the dawn of success is beginning.
But the man who can meet despair and defeat
With a cheer, there’s the man of God’s choosing;
The man who can fight to Heaven’s own height
Is the man who can fight when he’s losing.
Carry on! Carry on!
Things never were looming so black.
But show that you haven’t a cowardly streak,
And though you’re unlucky you never are weak.
Carry on! Carry on!
Brace up for another attack.
It’s looking like hell, but—you never can tell:
Carry on, old man! Carry on!
There are some who drift out in the deserts of doubt,
And some who in brutishness wallow;
There are others, I know, who in piety go
Because of a Heaven to follow.
But to labour with zest, and to give of your best,
For the sweetness and joy of the giving;
To help folks along with a hand and a song;
Why, there’s the real sunshine of living.
Carry on! Carry on!
Fight the good fight and true;
Believe in your mission, greet life with a cheer;
There’s big work to do, and that’s why you are here.
Carry on! Carry on!
Let the world be the better for you;
And at last when you die, let this be your cry:
Carry on, my soul! Carry on!
— Robert Service
AD
Sending you well wishes, Janie. Grief fundamentally changes who we are…I think of the process like going into a cocoon for a while and coming out a more beautiful person. Lost my father two years ago after doing some caregiving for him, then had to close his estate…navigating that world as a single 30-year-old was truly something. Be patient with yourself…your special person will visit you in unexpected ways. That being said, congratulations on 20 years of STTM website! While I don’t personally have thyroid issues, the site and forum is an awesome resource as an integrative heath practitioner.
Katherine Hughes
Dearest Janie,
Thank God you are ‘feeling better’. !! 🙂 I don’t think grief ever leaves us completely, but I am thankful that the time has come for you to ‘surface’ a bit more. Thank you again and again from so many of us who owe the recovery we have to you and your dedication.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, this is just a surface by me. That made me chuckle. But it’s real. I can only do a little at a time.
Peg
Love you, Janie, and a big THANKS! May the God of all comfort meet your every need.
Carolyn Hutchins
I was so sorry to read of your loss, Janie. It’s always devastating to lose someone who has been a huge part of our lives. It leaves us drifting anchorless for what feels like eternity. I hope you’re beginning to forge a new path now and finding a little peace in knowing that you will always have your memories.
Suki Singh
Hello Janie,
Please accept my condolences for your loss. It’s very hard and hopefully over time the pain will get less. Just remember that you have all this virtual family here for support as you have helped so many people overcome issues with thyroid. So thank you for your help and keep the chin up even in this hard time .. god bless
Kristie Mulreed Blank
I am so very sorry for your loss, Janie. Grief can be a very lonely journey. I know this all too well. I lost my older son suddenly and unexpectedly on 6/30/21. My family acts differently and my friends disappeared. They’re uncomfortable and don’t know what to say to me. I hope that you have loving support, as this grief journey is truly brutal. Please know that I am sending love, hugs and prayers for comfort and peace to heal your hurting heart.
Janie Bowthorpe
You said it well. Loss and grief is a lonely and brutal journey that we all have to travel if we do lose someone significant. And I am so very sorry for your own loss. Yes, people do disappear. And their discomfort is palpable. And many are just plain silent. It’s brutal.
Adela
Janie,
Grief is so hard to move through, a crushing force, but then as you say, you begin to live alongside it. What I have found (I’ve had several huge losses) is that with time the grief is softer, comes inside, becomes the lost one we love living inside us. Accompanying us. And makes us wider and fuller.
Thank you for your story, and thank you for your book that has guided me into much better health. Adela
Janie Bowthorpe
A crushing force. So true.
Jeannie Crockett
What a wonderful story. I am so glad she spoke to you and shared how you helped her.
Grief is so shattering…I am glad you are seeing some glimpses of light. Are you still getting out in the sunlight first thing in the morning?
Thank you for all you have done and will continue to do.
Janie Bowthorpe
I do get out. And yes, she was such a delight. We hugged right there in the noisy and busy restaurant.
Bev
So sorry you lost someone important in your life. It’s not easy as you have now found out. I wish you well with your grieving process and please remember, there s no timeline. It’s hard work and you will get through it. All I can offer is a hug!
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, that there is no timeline is something a body of people don’t understand. This is a lifetime of dealing with it on this physical plane, even if you get a little better. The actress Betty White knew this.
Alison
I’m so very sorry for your loss! Caregiving is deeply personal, loving, and will take all you have and more. I’m glad you’ve taken time for your own healing.
Frances
I have many of the hypo symptoms and my FT3 is low and is not optimal but just in range. Do I need a T3 treatment?
Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
We would definitely have T3 in our treatment, always. And this is the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Betty Downs
Janie, my heart felt condolences, can’t imagine the pain of such a loss. I found your page here right after a heart valve replacement & the Dr wanted me back on synthroid. I happened onto your Facebook page & my life has actually changed for the good. At 77 on Armour & T3 I’m able to do so many things I enjoy doing. A big thank you Janie.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ohhh I’m so glad to read that, Betty. Congrats!!
Jean Humphrey
What a lovely story! I think of all of the people you’ve helped that you don’t even know about. I’m one of them. At 76, I’ve been on NDT for 15+ years and I’m doing well. I wish you wonderful memories of your loved one as you “live alongside” your grief.
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m so glad you told me that you are doing well on NDT for 15 years.
I’m only 8 months out from losing someone so dear to me. It’s still not easy. But there is music that reminds me of him that makes me smile. 🙂
Lucy
Janie I actually found you because a clerk at my medical marijuana store told me about you. In two weeks time of finding you I have found answers for my symptoms have fired endo going to naturopath who mentioned your website in a podcast this week. I am so grateful for you and send you love and comfort for your loss. Thank you so much and may you feel your loved one with you supporting you in your legacy and love
Linda Siller
I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. Please accept my condolences.
Janie, I found you in 2009. My first child was born hypothyroid in 1994. After me requesting to have my levels checked, it was discovered that I too was hypothyroid. My daughter and I were prescribed ‘The Gold Standard’ synthroid. I knew nothing about the thyroid and was at the mercy of the doctors. A sonogram showed my new born baby had nodules instead of a fully developed thyroid gland. Through several sonograms over a 10 year period, I watched my thyroid disappear. When my daughter turned 15, she began having heart palpitations. This is when I found STTM. We both switched to NDT and oh what a difference that made. Her palpitations stopped and many other symptoms disappeared, as did mine. My health was so much worse than her. I truly believe you saved my life. Probably both our lives. The knowledge you so givingly share gave both of us a better quality of life. She is now married with a child of her own who is not hypothyroid. I’m 61 years old and I can’t thank you enough. You are a blessing.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ohhh Linda, that is a wonderful testimony. Thank you for telling me.
Nancy Murillo
I finally found a doctor who had done the work and added T3 to my T4. It has made a lot of difference. He also found out I was anemic (low ferritin levels). Thank you for your work.
Sending love and positive thoughts your way in your loss. It is hard. I am so sorry.
I lost someone very close to me last September after caring for them daily for 2.5 years. I was in a fog of grief in all it’s stages for months and it still hits me out of the blue.
We were such a blessing to these loved ones by lovingly caring for them and providing companionship. What a blessing to have spent the last days with them.
Janie Bowthorpe
Nancy, it’s never about treating ferritin. Ferritin as storage iron can be low with high iron, so treating it can drive the high serum iron even higher…if the serum is high. It’s always about serum iron. 🙂 The only thing we look at with ferritin is if it’s high. That’s inflammation and we treat the latter. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron
Fog of grief–that describes what I went through, too. And I’m still in the area of only being tolerate so much. But I felt ready to try one post. I still have my days and know they will always be there.
Debbie
Janie,
Condolences to you as you continue to learn how to live with a great loss. May you find joy in in the memories and see life in the nature around you.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s a slow journey but I’m at least glad I finally felt ready to do a blog post. Yes, nature was very important to both of us.
KayHehir
Deepest Condolences in your recent loss of a beloved one…. It is wonderful that you’ve allowed yourself time for the grieving process & integrating your new reality… Please go gently, as you are.. Know also that you are supported with love in this journey, from many of us……Sending Prayers for you & your loved ones….????????????????????
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, I have no choice but to go gently. Grief fills you up to the point you can barely add anything else in your life. But after seeing this waitress and what she told me, I was at least ready to talk about her in a blog post.
Judith Stringer
Your pain touches my heart. I know it well, and the loss of my 38 yr old son 17 years ago is a part of my bones. I learned from others in grief that this will change, and be ‘softer’ over time, yet will never go away. Yes, we learn how to live alongside the loss, grief. And somehow it makes us stronger. You are wise to lean on others. We can help you carry this. Your work has blessed so many of us. Thank you.
Mary Ann Pressley
I was on Armour then my new doctor stopped it and put me on levothyroxine. I prefer Armour but am looking for a doctor that will listen to me. My condolences on your loss.
Janie Bowthorpe
Keep up that search. We have to have the right doctor and also expect to GUIDE them. That’s why the website, the books, the coaching calls exist. To educate all of you so you can step in the doctor’s office and guide.
KayHehir
Deepest Condolences in your recent loss of a beloved one…. It is wonderful that you’ve allowed yourself time for the grieving process & integrating your new reality… Please go gently, as you are.. Know also that you are supported with love in this journey, from many of us……Sending Prayers for you & your loved ones…
Janie Bowthorpe
I see this is a duplicate. Thank u.
Mary Kay Parulski
Oh Janie, my heart aches for your loss. You have helped countless numbers of people, including me. Walking your loved one home is both an honor filled with much sadness, but also much joy that cannot be matched any other way. You have my deepest sympathies.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hardest thing I ever did. Yet at the same time, the grief is even harder. Thank u.
Judith Booth
Hi Janie. Deepest sympathy to you at such a sad time.
In 2005 I found a doctor who had worked this out. Her daughter kept miscarrying and after adding T3 she had no troubles. She was one of the first to understand this. It was this doctor who gave me natural thyroid hormone when I felt suicidal due to thyroxin only meds for 25 years. It went against all medical advice at the time.
I am now 77 and still taking NTH. It’s been my lifesaver for the past 15 years. But there are still so many people struggling on T4 meds only.
Janie Bowthorpe
I am so glad you gave your age. You are proof, as are many, that even those in their 70’s and BEYOND can do well with NDT. Medicare is stupid about this. Thank you deeply for your sympathy.
Kathy Forrest
That is a wonderful story of you in the restaurant. You have helped many. I am sure we can all understand your grief in the loss of someone special. Please accept my condolences.
Janie Bowthorpe
People who tell me things like she did mean a lot to me. Makes all these twenty years worth it. Thank u for your condolences.