A Followup to the previous post titled “Is Armour Working…or Not?”

Four days ago, I was finally able to compose a blog post about two issues: that something fishy/suspicious seemed to be going on with Armour desiccated thyroid for a certain body of hypothyroid or Hashimoto’s patients. Plus some comments were also going around that needed better balance.

For anyone new to this topic and scratching your head about any part above:

1) Armour is a brand prescription of porcine desiccated thyroid that has been around for many, many decades. It was, in fact, the only most successful hypothyroid treatment.
2) Desiccated Thyroid has all five hormones (T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin) and has been changing lives all over again since the turn of this century, unlike T4-only which appeared to be a poor treatment for too many patients since 1960.
3) Over the past few years, Armour was the only desiccated thyroid that patients reported was still working, unlike what patients were reporting about Naturethroid, WP Thyroid, and NP Thyroid. And all three of the latter were recalled with most strengths after numerous patient complaints!

What has been brewing about Armour desiccated thyroid?

Turns out that some patients, in different locations, have been noticing and reporting a downhill slide with Armour, whereas before, they didn’t have those problems. For some on the same dose, their labs plummeted, and in this group, there were occasional posted labs to prove it. Other patients in this group simply noticed a strange return of symptoms after doing well for quite awhile.

The other problem

Unfortunately, a strong statement was also going around that Armour was working for “NO ONE”!! But that was unbalanced and false. For those who were paying attention, there have been another body of patients who are still reporting and experiencing Armour as working, and found the latter statement of “NO ONE” insulting to their own experience. And some of these patients have labs to prove it is still working, too.

Is there a possibility that a large body of us will find Armour not working like it used to? Yes. It happened before in 2009. Yet, even with the latter, and even though it appeared to be a huge percentage who had problems in 2009, there were STILL a minority who claimed they were still fine. Patient experiences DO HAVE gray areas.

Today, no one is a magical soothsayer. And with a variety of opposite patient experiences going on, we are nowhere near being able to claim that Armour is currently working for NO ONE. We need time and more experiences to truly figure out what is going on.

Four Armour Exploration posts were created on the Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) facebook page

Below are mention of the four graphic questions. Keep in mind that STTM is not, nor am I, a polling business. This is informal. But it doesn’t take away what we are getting from the comments to each question.

For each question below that was posted on the STTM Facebook page, I also refer here and there to the two camps: those who experienced clear changes vs those who experience still doing well. When you see reference to “optimal“, this refers to having a free T3 in the upper part of the range, and the free T4 around midrange–an important goal we learned about years ago. If we don’t get optimal, our good results eventually backfire. We wanted to differentiate backfiring from not being optimal, to backfiring due to Armour having changed for the negative.

QUESTION #1: Asking where people live who had optimal frees, then redid labs on the same amount of Armour, and now saw their labs were messed up.

This was an attempt to see if locations are common for those who once had optimal labs, then on the same amount and new labs, saw negative changes in their lab results. Before each below will be either GREEN square (representing those experiencing Armour still working), a RED square (representing those whose labs shows a solid experience of a changed Armour) or a BLUE square (representing either a neutral statement, a statement without enough proof, a statement that didn’t fit what the graphic was asking for, or other.)

Had a few state a negative change to labs, but there were problems identifying this as Armour being bad. For example, one possibly had high RT3 (didn’t test it) and another suspected a nodule changing her labs.

One stated she felt she was good, then moved to T4/T3, but we don’t have enough information as she didn’t post labs or go into more detail.

One guy did mention that all labs are showing optimal and have for four years.  (Wish we could have seen the labs, but four years is strong). Another gal said basically the same, but no labs. More positive comments like this under the “other” below.  

A gal mentioned feeling achy, but no thyroid labs to help explain why and could be about low iron. So better info is needed.

Two gals mentioned previous optimal labs, then they went off. One of the two mentioned she’s getting adrenals checked before saying what caused it.

A gal found herself with “crazy high T3”. Another was over range. But more needs to be explored, as a cortisol problem can do that, too.

One gal had symptoms and raising did nothing, so she stopped the Armour. (What we can’t discern with this is were her raises still too low, which would do nothing for her. Need better info to have a strong lean.)

Another gal says she was stable for years on Armour, then her labs were abnormally low in May and June.

A gal in Ireland experiences all is fine, but no labs for more solid proof.

One gal states optimal on 4 grains plus 25mcg T3.  This has been mentioned a few times before and makes you wonder if adding T3 to Armour is a good idea right now. Thus the green.

QUESTION #2: If you are in the camp still experiencing good results with Armour, where do you live?

This is an attempt to discern if locations (i.e. where certain lots of Armour were sent) would explain why some experience still doing well on Armour.

Answers all over the map, though in the US, there were more in the east than the west, and only some in the middle area of the US. Other countries were represented, too, as STTM is for worldwide experiences. This did not give us any definitive answer.

QUESTION #3: This was to see if those who experienced a change in Armour had noticed a change in the tablets.

This was sent to me by thyroid patient Kristen. On the RIGHT was Armour tablet in former bottle. On the LEFT is in current bottle!
And THIS one is by thyroid patient Janet and again, newer one on right this time is also less thick! Both of these could mean either less of a filler, or a different pill presser? We need more info.

Then the following comments:

  • No changes from Texas.
  • No changes in any way for over a year.
  • Tastes the same, same shape, same size (and seems to be working)
  • Same size; same smell.
  • Same smell, but looked and tasted different.
  • Felt better on a different script of Armour, but all were the same with the tabs size, smell, etc.
  • Pills from Dec. 2020 and May 2021 are different (now darker in color and less depth). This fits the photo above.
  • Gal said the new ones are smaller, but no photo produced to give confirmation.  You could say the photo with the newer bottle pill on the left is “smaller” in depth.
  • A gal states the working tablets smelled like roasted meat; new ones are medicinal/chemical. But she can’t verify it was Armour. (Would like to hear more feedback from others.)
  • Last month’s tablets dissolve quickly. This month have to bite in to dissolve. This could also fit what we’re seeing in the photo, as right one (older one) looks chalkier, and new one looks firmer.

QUESTION #4: This question asked how much Armour you have been/are on, and to see labs (free T4, free T3 and RT3) from both camps: those who experienced a negative change in their symptoms with labs to prove it, and those who still experienced doing quite well, and with labs.

Unfortunately and as seen often in groups, getting labs posted can be like trying to suck a thick malted ice cream through a skinny straw. It’s challenging. But below is what we got….

Lots of comments that had nothing to do with labs. But the labs posted showed either potential pooling, or not optimal, or lowered T4 due to rising RT3, or simply a too high RT3. Hard to come to conclusions. 


  • On 240 mg Armour for years and no problems. No labs.
  • Doing well on Armour.
  • From Sweden: Doing good on 240 mg Armour plus 20 mg T3. Another positive response when using both. Hmmmmm
  • Some negative replies about Armour that may be more about underdosing. All were pretty low. So not strong enough information.
  • At least FOUR different people commenting that ARMOUR IS WORKING WITH SOME T3.
  • One interesting comment wondering if COVID did this to a lot of people who have had sudden negative problems. 
  • One gal feels like a mess with 180mg five days a week, 360mg two days a week. Odd dosing for sure!
  • Doing great on 360 mg twice a day and 25 T3 twice a day. (She may have Thyroid Hormone resistance, thus the high amounts. 8 years of of doing great, which is strong for Armour working for her)
  • At least three comments for “No issues”. Another comment for “No difference”


The four Armour Exploratory graphic questions underscored the same situation going on for awhile: differences in experiences, meaning one camp experiencing Armour has changed for the negative, and another camp experiencing still doing quite fine on Armour. So looks like we need more time, more reports.

In the meantime, those who went downhill can definitely consider switching to using synthetic T4 with synthetic T3. And do know that people are using different brands of each successfully. And it continues to be important to learn this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

Others may end up adding T3 to that Armour, but it will be important to have the right amount of cortisol, we as informed patients know first hand. Raising T3 in the presence of a cortisol problem all too frequently results in hyper-like symptoms as T3 climbs high in the blood without the right amount of cortisol. The right amount of cortisol helps that T3 attach to cell receptors. Here’s a saliva cortisol test you can order: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/

So we’ll all keep an eye out over time.

Important notes: All the information on this website is copyrighted. STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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76 Responses to “A Followup to the previous post titled “Is Armour Working…or Not?””

  1. Katherine Anne Lipp says:

    I have Subacute Thyroiditis, how do I get inflammation from my thyroid to go down, I am on good diet and great shape, and on armour thyroid. I take lots nutrition, and vitamins, all test show I am ok. Not sure what to do next. Had it for 3 months.

  2. Judy says:

    Hi Janie

    Are you still on sigma pharma t3. And how much are you on. Do you find that it’s not as strong as cytomel? I just got my script filled and I like it better then cytomel

  3. Annette says:

    I switched to Armour a few months ago, and recently had labs done with a new endo. I am currently on Armour 60mg.. (previously on Levothyroxin 88mcg and Liothyronine 10mcg). My current labs had TSH at 21.20, Free T4 at .74. She didn’t run any T3 labs at all, and told me it doesn’t matter when you are taking Armour (?!?!) Background history: Total thyroidectomy in 1995 for thyroid cancer. I-131 radiation (150mci) and have kept my TSH suppressed ever since. My TSH has never been above1 in years. Also… breast cancer and mastectomy in March 2021. That is why I asked to switch meds…. I had read that Levo could be related to breast cancer. I am meeting this endo next week. Not sure how to educate her on labs. (She just finished her fellowship and this is her first month as an endo on her own) Any advice would be appreciated

    • Hi Annette. You are severely underdosed on Armour. One grain/60 mg is simply a starting dose from which we raise from by 1/2 grain every two weeks, slowing down somewhere in the two grains area to do the free T4 and free T3. So your labs fit holding on to just a starting dose. And it DOES fit to have the free T3 no matter what thyroid meds we are on. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

  4. Kim says:

    Just wanted to share my experience. Don’t think Armour is working for me right now. I live in GA and I’m taking 120mg of Armour with 25 mcg of SR T3 from a compounding pharmacy in California. I know SR T3 is controversial and I’ve had issues with SRT3 in the past but NOT with this pharmacy. I’ve been slowly increasing the dose over many months with a coinciding/consistent increase in free T3 levels. I’ve been doing well over the last year until recently. Return of Typical hypo symptoms for me- fatigue, bloating, weight gain, etc. My results from 5/19/21 were
    Free T4 1.0 (0.8-1.4)
    Free T3 = 3.6 (2.3-4.2)
    RT3 = 8
    MD at that time raised SR T3 from 20mcg to 25 mcg
    Results from 8/25/21
    Free T4 = .8
    Free T3 = 3
    RT3 = 7
    Not sure what to do now as I’ve been on synthetic combo before and was doing much better with this combo. 🥲

    • The only issue that could point to Armour is the FT4 dropping from 1.0 to .8. But that may be remedied by raising the Armour.

      And raising slow release T3 from 20 to 25mcg shows a drop in your free T3 from 3.6 to 3. That seems odd. Again, you could try raising the Armour and see what happens.

  5. PJ Thyroid says:

    I’ll add my two cents…. I have been on NDT for over 10 years. in the past, I have used ARMOUR, ERFA, NATURE-THROID, and NP THYROID. i have always used 2.5 grains and my TSH stayed close to 1. My 3 thyroid panels in 2021 showed my TSH almost at ZERO. So, I would say the 2.5grains of NP-THYROID, I’m using, is STRONGER than usual. Another side effect that I noticed, besides near ZERO TSH, on NP-THYROID, is long spiking of my SYSTOLIC blood pressure. It is taking 10 or more minutes for my SYSTOLIC to SLOWLY drop back to normal. Three days ago, I switched back to 2.5 grains of 2013 ERFA (refrigerated) to see if my TSH will increase. My SYSTOLIC seems to be behaving normally now. I feel like a big experiment.

  6. L.A. says:

    I’m on 60mg each day of Armour and am definitely not feeling optimal. At first, I felt less hungry and stopped gaining weight. But now, a couple months later, I am gaining weight and don’t have enough energy, feel dissatisfied with food and am hungrier. Granted, things are crazy stressful at work, but I can’t change that right now, so I wish I could compare to non-stressful times. Any thoughts, Janie?

    And I must say… I’m tired of doctors. What can we do on our own without a prescription? I’m tired of wasting so much time and money with them. Maybe you can do a blog post on it, or maybe I should ask, does healing come to people by just using the right supplements like thyroid glandulars? I really want to no longer depend on doctors. Even if it’s a decent one, which I have, I’m tired of waiting weeks for each appt. just to make hardly any change. I’m suffering now and need help now.

    • LA, 60 mg is just a starting dose that we raise after two weeks, and raise again by 1/2 grain, and again, to get optimal. Staying on such a low dose ends up backfiring back to hypo, thus gaining weight, not enough energy, etc. You need to read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

    • Audry Cece says:

      L.A., I could not agree more! I have a natural/good doctor but she wants to test every 8 weeks and possibly only raise me the slightest bit (when I basically beg her.) Since my last apt I have taken it upon myself and doubled how much I take (now up to 120mg of Armour), but now I have to write to her before my next apt and pray she will call me in a new prescription. It’s maddening. Plus expensive to pay for blooodwork every 8 weeks to move at a snail’s pace. I don’t want to feel good in 3 years, I want to feel good ASAP.

      Even good natural doctors online like Dr. Westin Child’s and Mark Haymen’s articles say women only need about 2 grains of Armour. I’m not sure how to make my doctor see that some of us need more than that. Possibly much more! It’s frustrating for sure.

  7. Debbie Bowler says:

    I’m over in the UK but my Armour comes from the USA (California to be precise). I have been taking 3gr Armour for 3yrs with successful results. Just lately I’ve gained weight, bloated, hair falling out, feet hurt, tired and constipated. So definitely hypo symptoms. I took a test and my levels have dropped:

    TSH 0.01 (0.27-4.2)

    FT3 – 4.8 (3.1-6.8)

    FT4 – 12.1(12-22)

    Ferritin 130 (13-150)

    Vitamin D 69 (50-200)

    Folate 16.7 ( >2.7)

    B12 >150 (>37.5)

    I’m working on my vit D but it was even lower at my last test 9 months ago and yet my thyroid levels were higher. I’m on the new armour pill as it looks different and us more crumbly than they were in my last bottle. I’ve raised my armour by 0.5 gr. it’s been 2 weeks and I’m not feeling much better, maybe a teeny weeny bit! How soon do I raise a bit more? Or do I trial levo/t3? Im reluctant to do this as armour worked so well for me in the past but obviously I don’t want fo be unwell

  8. Chris says:

    So I did an experiment. I was recently adjusted in my Armour dose from 2 to 2.5 grains. And I felt ok. However still feeling odd so I have 25 mcg added to Armour. I got my blood work done at 6 weeks so still waiting the results but I feel my reverse T3 might have increased from my 12 with the increase in t4.

    So I went to the pharmacy last week to renew my script and the pharmacy stated they’re having a hard time getting Armour in so I went with NP until they did 2 grains.

    Honestly the NP made me feel more alive , sharp , and energetic and I had less allergy symptoms. Of course I cleared it with my doctor when stating the switch bc I basically had to.

    If NP is back and effective – this could be a huge win for NDT. Remember – abbvie purchased Armour and they screwed up symthroid with all these disgusting fillers. It wouldn’t surprise me if they altered armour thyroid.

    My NP even said the recalls on naturethroid and NP seemed unfair as the sub potency wasn’t in all the lots recalled and most of them had it in t4 which isn’t the engine.

  9. Judy says:

    Janie can you tell me what above mid range would be. Labcorp ranges are
    T3. 2.0-4.4

    So if my t3 is 3.8. T4. 1.33. On the above ranges. Is my t3. In a good place. Or should it be higher. Or does it depend on other factors?


  10. Cat says:

    I used to take armour and it help with fatigue and fogginess. Then a few years ago started armour again and it causes muscle tightness and pain, even with the tiny dose I take. What other medicine should I consider.

    • The answer for you is the word “tiny”. We aren’t meant to be on tiny dose, thus your issues. We have to raise until optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Cat says:

        Thank you for your valuable time. So I used to take it and it did not cause intense muscle pain but I restarted it at 15 mg and my muscle pain and joint pain is intense so I keep quitting it.

        • If it’s truly Armour you are on (there’s an A on the tablet), issues like that happen when we stay on too low a dose. The good results we might have once had backfire due to never being optimal. The individuality is when it backfires. You can always move to T4/T3, or if RT3 is moving up, just T3. But you still need to get optimal.

    • Cat says:

      Thank you so much for your time. Armour years ago would help with fatigue and fogginess.
      Now when I take it at 15mg I get very tight muscles and grinding joints (neck and shoulders etc) and I get foggy so I keep stopping it. The tight muscles are intense makes it hard to focus and do my job and be productive. But when I don’t take it I am exhausted.
      Wanted to add:
      T4 0.9
      T3 Free 2.6
      TSH 3.0

  11. Suze says:

    I just want to report that Erfa is still working well for me. I went back to T4 and T3 for a while and it worked too, but that makes me more hyper, whereas Erfa makes me feel more balanced. I am angry that Cytomel is now $54 and I decided to stay on Erfa, which is covered. Cytomel went generic so you have to pay for the name brand now in Canada. I tried the generic and didn’t like it. On Erfa, I still get these sudden feelings of well-being, even while suffering in the heat wave. At night when it gets cooler I feel I could do anything. That is really all I ask.

  12. Aimee says:

    Does a high reverse T3 & pooling automatically mean that Armour isn’t working/good for me, or is it something specifically wrong with me (iron or cortisol?) I’m on 3 1/2 grains Armour plus 10mcgs of Lio. I’ve never had this issue before on any of the other Ndt’s. My Free T4 is on the low end at 0.90, Free T3 on the higher end at 3.9, and reverse T3 is up to 17.5 using Labcorp’s ranges

    • Hi Aimee. In all of the fair evaluation with Armour, do know that high RT3 is about either low iron, inflammation, or high cortisol. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-ot3

      And a low FT4 with a high FT3 can mean exploring this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling

      • Aimee says:

        Thank you for your response, Janie. Will look into those things and bring them to the attention of my provider. I have been under quite a lot of stress lately (frantic move to a new house in another town earlier this year, the ongoing covid pandemic, facing addiction in my marriage, and the death of a parent this month) so I think those things may have something to do with me feeling poorly & not doing as well as I should with thyroid/adrenal/cortisol balance. It’s a cascade of issues for sure, and I’m starting to understand now how they’re all linked

  13. Liesl Wright says:

    IDK what to do, Janie. I’ve been using OTC thyroid brands for years. Did you know that most of them are sold out of thyroid, due to the pandemic? The only company that isn’t sold out, Nutrimeds, has jacked up their price substantially. Also, the Nutrimed product doesn’t seem to work right anymore. It is what I’ve mostly used for years. I’m not sure what to do. It’s sounds like Armor is really the only option with a prescription and it may not even work. Is the idea to make sure none of these products work so we are forced to take a synthetic thyroid? Help!

    • It is nothing but fear-mongering by certain individuals that this was done purposely with conspiracy to stop us from using animal thyroid. It happened because the only US distributor stopped selling porcine powder around 2017. And we don’t know exactly why due to the ridiculous secrecy out there. So US pharms were forced to find the powder elsewhere. And two admitted they were getting it from “Europe”, but what does that actually mean? Clearly, something was wrong with it.

      Armour has still been reported as working for what appears to be a good % of thyroid patients, which dispels the black and white, attention-getting opinion that “NDT is working for no one” in this current day and time. To say the latter is not paying attention to a full body of patients that includes both camps. Will Armour go bad for all someday? Anything is possible. But it’s not going on at all yet.

      So there is trying Armour if you want to try it and getting those frees optimal, or moving to T4 and T3 and getting those frees optimal, or T3 only and getting the free T3 optimal. 🙂

  14. Ana says:

    I’m following up an earlier comment I made about being one of those still doing well on Armour (150 mg. daily, in split doses). I had thyroid labs done last week, and the results confirm that nothing for me has changed. My numbers have been the same since the fall of 2019: free t3 at the top of the range, free t4 at 1.2 and TSH suppressed.

    I noticed that the lab my doctor has used for 12 years keeps changing the reference ranges. Twelve years ago the free t3 range was 2.9 to 4.2. The bottom of the range has gradually gone down over the years; 2.6, then 2.3 and now 2. The top of the range went from 4.2 to 4.4, which is good. The free t3 range is now 2 to 4.4. The free t4 range was .9 to 1.8 until this last test. Now it’s .7 to 1.5. I don’t know what’s going on, but my free t4 was still 1.2 on this different range. It makes me fear they are going even further in trying to normalize hypothyroid blood levels.

    I’ve wondered if some people might have decreased potency in some batches of Armour because of the heat. Thyroid hormones degrade quickly in the heat, and I question whether the Armour is kept cool enough during shipping.

    Thank you so much, Janie, for digging into this topic. A great help as always!

    • And you are in the company of many others like you…so far. Again, why there’s no integrity is exclaiming it works for no one. lol.

      And who knows if certain batches got heat exposed. Another good guess. We’ll just have to let time go by to figure this out.

  15. Karen H. says:

    Just got my Free T3, Free T4 and TSH back and was chagrined to discover my TSH is over 15 (I usually sit somewhere between less than 1 to much lower than that). Both Free T’s have gone down considerably but still within normal range. I will write a follow-up with ranges soon, but Armour is definitely not working for me. This is really discouraging as it was my last hope in NDTs. Is anyone doing okay on Naturethroid? Cytomel is way too over-stimulating for me. I have ms and can’t tolerate it.

    • Karen, in the spirit of being open to all possibilities, post how much Armour you’ve been on and your last (before the latest test you are mentioning) free T4 and free T3, plus RT3.

      And Naturethroid has been gone awhile since it’s recall. And if Cytomel is too over-stimulating, that can point to this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

      i.e. this may not be due to Armour changing. So we have to explore the above.

  16. Judy says:

    Hi Janie

    I hope you can clarify which armour thyroid pills are the new and which are the old ones. I had a script filled last September for armour I never took them. This year I had a new script filled and the pills are a bit harder and a very small amount thinner. So for a week I took the ones from last year and I didn’t feel well at all. I got a headache and just too much anxiety. I was just going to stop taking armour all together. But then decided to try the new ones and I have been taking them for a couple of weeks and feel so much better. No headaches, no anxiety.
    I’m confused about which are old which are new. This is the first time taking armour since 2009.

    Hope you can help

    • The problem is that I am getting reports that contradict each other about the pills. The problem can be multi-fold. For one, a change in color can simply be due to a different batch of pig thyroid mixed together as compared to the last batch of powder being used. That’s been known for decades. So color is not definitive in detecting a bad batch of Armour.

      Second, some description of pills fit how Armour has been looking/dissolving/tasting for a few years now. i.e. it’s not anything new, even though for the person reporting it, they think it is. You never know what you are picking up from a pharmacy, what batch a patient had been on awhile, etc.

      Third, some patients go downhill due to having been underdosed. A crash is inevitable when one isn’t truly optimal. And some people totally fail to fully read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      And a fourth important piece of information: when a brand truly goes bad, the amount of people reporting on has obvious growth. We haven’t yet seen the degree of growth like we have in the past. So we need more time for this to unfold.

    • Judy says:


      Thank you

      Just curious is mannitol a bad thing in a small amount. I notice that sigma pharma t3 pills has it listed as a ingredient?

  17. Sue Prytherch says:

    Can I just ask a question here? Maybe Janie will find it? I am scheduled to have my labs done tomorrow morning at 8:30am. They are usually running late, so the blood might be drawn around 9:15. I usually take my Armour and T3 at around 8:30. Should I take it before I arrive? Or wait and take it after they draw the blood. Just trying to make sure they have an accurate blood draw. Thanks for any response. I appreciate it. …Should I have posted this on your Facebook group? I don’t see how to post a new topic, so I would need to post it under a previous topic posted by Janie? Thanks.

  18. Sue Prytherch says:

    Just an update from me. I have been on Armour for a couple years now. Just picked up my refilled prescription yesterday (7/19/2021). I am located on SW Florida, near Fort Myers. The new pills are thinner (like some have already mentioned) and I think they are slightly more beige colored. The new pills are VERY slightly not white. I will not need to start taking these new pills for at least a couple weeks. Should I change over to them NOW? And see if I have problems? And then I could go back to my “good” bottle of pills, while I figure out what to do next? Of those people thinking the new pills are less effective — what have you done? Changed brands of NDT? or have you gotten your doctor to raise your dosage of Armour? What are the other choices of NDT? I am taking 180 mg. of Armour daily – 90 mg. in the morning and 90 mg. at noon. I was so happy on Armour… wish they wouldn’t do this to us. Sad.

    • That makes sense to me to start now so that you have the former pills to fall back on. But also know that it’s been known for decades that the color of these pills can change depending on the stock of pigs that made the powder.

  19. Sue Prytherch says:

    Just an update from me. I have been on Armour for a couple years now. Just picked up my refilled prescription yesterday (7/19/2021). I am located on SW Florida, near Fort Myers. The new pills are thinner (like some have already mentioned) and I think they are slightly more beige colored. The new pills are VERY slightly not white. I will not need to start taking these new pills for at least a couple weeks. Should I change over to them NOW? And see if I have problems? And then I could go back to my “good” bottle of pills, while I figure out what to do next? Of those people thinking the new pills are less effective — what have you done? Changed brands of NDT? or have you gotten your doctor to raise your dosage of Armour? What are the other choices of NDT? I was so happy on Armour… wish they wouldn’t do this to us. Sad.

  20. Gare says:

    The past 2 weeks I’ve been feeling run down, depressed and sometimes anxious just out of nowhere. Today I saw your post about Armour possibly going bad. I checked the refill date on my prescription and it was 6/29…3 weeks ago. I get a 90 day supply every time so my last refill was around March and I was fine during that time. The timing of everything going downhill coincides exactly with my new refill. I’m bummed with finding this out today, but glad there seems to be an explanation. Not sure where to go from here since I had to twist my doctors arm to just Armour, which turned everything around for me over a year ago. When people say they are still doing well on Armour I think it’s important to know when their last refill was. I was doing great until my last refill 3 weeks ago. I’m tempted to up my dose before seeing my doctor to try to get relief, but I suppose it’s best to get new labs on the same dose for an accurate comparison. For informational purposes – I’m in Texas. Any tips on what I should try for next would be appreciated.

    • Gare, to have the best analysis and exploration of this, you also have to consider if you crashed due to being underdosed i.e. not optimal with your frees. A high percentage of us eventually experience a crash just from not having been optimal with our frees. This doesn’t take away that Armour may have changed in certain batches. But we also have to consider other reasons, too. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal

      • Gare says:

        Well I know my labs were good last March and I felt great up until a week after my last refill 3 weeks ago, so it seems to be related to the new refill. But yes, I’ll get my labs again and go from there. Something interesting to note – Last summer i got a bad batch of Armour and went downhill until I got a new refill and returned to normal – so that was a temporary issue with it. I know it was a bad batch because after I got my new refill and started feeling normal again I went on vacation and accidentally took the bad batch with me and I went downhill on vacation. It wasn’t until I got home that I realized I had taken the bad batch – so I know it wasn’t psychosomatic. Hopefully it’s just a temporary setback. I will start paying more attention to the look of the pills.

  21. Ivy says:

    I just think a huge majority of the people saying it hasn’t been working for them have other issues going on like iron/cortisol and inflammation.

    I once thought Cytomel just blankly stopped working for me and when I saw my labs it didn’t make sense as my TSH was super suppressed and free T3 was at 21 lol! So I thought the formula changed because I felt so crappy! This happened to me with Armour before I got on Cytomel! Inflammation lead me to crash and I thought it was the Armour to bad I never checked my labs at that point in time this was 10/2020. This is when Initially ran into a problem with Armour or atleast I thought I did I’ll never know..

    I’m no longer on Cytomel since it has corn. So I haven’t been on Cytomel not Armour for a while now.

  22. Chris says:

    So I keep hearing that the issues with Armour is you may have to go up on your dose if there’s issues on the same one you had optimal results on prior.

    My question is: due to cost and say you were on 120 mg of Armour and your free thyroid hormones went down. Why not go up on NP to 150 or 180 MG ? NP is available and the last recall only had a few lots that were recalled.

    • Some did try upping NP and got nowhere. Others were concerned as to upping whatever was causing a cat piss smell..

    • Chris says:

      I gotcha. Yeah Armour is just too pricey to be on 2.5 grains 🙁 I wish they could offer that in 1 pill. My functional doctor is asking if I’d prefer a compound medication that would save me $30 a month.

      • You can also look at just doing synthetic T4 with synthetic T3…and still get those frees optimal.

        • Chris says:

          Tried it and the synthetic combo doesnt replace the t1 and t2 benefits. I felt constantly bloated from drinking water on synthetic t4 with t3.

          • Use T4 and T3 with Betaine.

          • Chris says:

            Are you no longer a fan of Armour ?

          • There are still a strong body of people whose experience and labs show Armour is working for them, even though there are others that it isn’t. So it’s up to you.

          • Chris says:

            I actually thought about just going on straight t3 to be honest. They added 25 mcg of t3 to my 2.5 grains of Armour. Feel good. It’s just pricey. Wondering if going down on Armour to 1.5 or 2 grains and going up on t3 might work. Get my labs drawn in a bit.

            I think the t1 and t2 and calcitonin are extremely beneficial that you can’t get from synthetics in my opinion.


  23. Karen says:

    I have been taking Armour for many years, and It has always worked for me. But,
    On 4/9/2021 my TSH was 6.13 and T4, 0.8. Doctor up my dose to 90.
    New labs, 7/8/2021 and my TSH is 6.59. TPO, 190 and TbAg, 134.
    (My PC fights me on testing T4 & T3.) Upping my dose again to 120.

    Im not sure what is happening with Armour but 90 mg did nothing, fingers crossed that the 120 will work, as he want to put my on Levothoxine, and I don’t want this…

  24. Ana says:

    The reports of Armour not working are alarming, but you can add me to the category of people who are still doing well on Armour. So far, so good. I’ve taken it on and off since 2004, and I have been on it again since the Fall of 2019. My labs have been consistently optimal during that time. My tablets have been hard since 2019 until the batch I picked up last month. The new ones are softer, and I was happy to find I could absorb them sublingually. I’m going in for labs this week and will report back.

    Philippa, where did you hear that Mannitol has been added to Armour? All the sources I’ve found, most recently updated May 2021, do not show Mannitol or citric acid as being in the Armour formulation. The inactive ingredients are: calcium stearate, dextrose, microcrystalline cellulose, sodium starch glycolate, and opadry white. Perhaps the formula is different in Europe?

  25. Philippa Snowdon says:

    I think I have worked it out. Mannitol.
    “Promotion of elimination of renally excreted toxic substances in poisoning.” This is one of the uses of Mannitol. (found in EMC)

    For some of us, (quite a lot in France, see ‘Merck’ )I believe the addition of Mannitol and citric acid instead of lactose -beware lactose free – causes the mannitol to mistake the main ingredient for poison. When a drug does not work for me, it doesn’t matter how many pills I take. Armour have added mannitol, to make it lactose free and increase the shelf life. For a large number of us that is very disappointing.

  26. Katie says:

    The first time I got a 90 day supply in October all was well. When I got a refill in January, I started getting headaches. I never get headaches usually – I have a very healthy lifestyle. Since I got the 3rd 90 day supply, the headaches have been gone. I absolutely believed there was something different and the visual in this article appears to confirm it. Just wish I knew what it was so I could avoid it again…it’s so hard to know where to go (I was previously on Naturethroid with lots of hair falling out).

  27. Russ says:

    The thickness and color of my old and new prescription is the opposite of what is shown in the pics.
    My old is the thinner one and my new is thicker and also a lighter color.

    • I had to laugh and shake my head. Because these two opposite observations about the pill, just like the two opposite experiences with Armour, are
      EXACTLY why it’s lacking in wisdom to say “Armour works for no one”. lol. It’s akin to taking one of the observations about the pills (the new ones have less depth) and totally ignoring what YOU are seeing, which is the opposite. Thank you so much for posting this. It again and again says “It’s is not smart to make black and white conclusions”. We need more time and exploration.

  28. Arlin Tapper says:

    not familiar with posting comments & where is most appropriate to reply with the Armour thyroid issues but here goes:

    labs from 7/20/20 on 120mg Armour
    Free T3: 4.06 pg/mL
    Free T4: 1.27 ng/dL
    RT3: 24.8 ng/dL

    labs from 6/14/21 still on 120mg of Armour

    Free T3: 3.96 pg/mL
    Free T4: .96 ng/dL
    RT3: 17 ng/dL

    From S. California; not other issue that I know about in regards to B12, Iron, adrenals etc.

  29. Stephanie sanchez says:

    Terrible anxiety I have to meditate 2 hours a day been like this since March or I take a little Xanax. Am on 75 mg of armour

  30. Kathie says:

    You know, 3 months ago when I opened my new script of Armour, some of the pills I took melted under my tongue super fast. I thought I was reformulated, but then the rest of the pills were like the old ones that take forever to dissolve.

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