The American Thyroid Association is losing its marbles and squirming in its uncomfortable seat thanks to informed thyroid patients.
Oh boy. Here we go again with a brand new nutty focus by the American Thyroid Association.
The American Thyroid Association (ATA) has recently released a dim-witted and negative article towards informed thyroid patients, based on the ATA’s own biased survey with a hidden (but obvious) agenda, titled Patient Requests for Tests and Treatments Impact Physician Management of Hypothyroidism. You can find it in the ATA journal, called Thyroid, Volume: 29 Issue 11.
Who was surveyed?
According to the abstract of the article, the survey was directed towards physicians, whether Endocrinologists or Primary Care doctors, of which 63% responded. It states that “almost half of the physicians reported that patient requests for tests and treatments were somewhat to very likely to being a barrier to appropriate management of thyroid hormone therapy (46%)”. Endocrinologists “were more likely to report patient requests as a barrier”. (Well duh, informed patients would exclaim, as they find most Endo’s to be rigid, arrogant, and narrow-minded.)
“Physician-reported patient requests included requests for preparations other than synthetic thyroxine (52%), adjusting thyroid hormone dose based on symptoms when biochemically euthyroid (52%), maintaining thyrotropin level (TSH) below the reference range (32%), and adjusting dose according to serum T3 level (21%).”
“Physicians who reported receiving patient requests for the former three unconventional practices were more likely to execute them…”
The gist of the article is that thyroid patients who are requesting certain “tests and treatments” from their doctors are erecting “barriers” because of those requests, i.e. barriers against “appropriate management of thyroid hormone therapy.”
i.e. how DARE informed thyroid patients request certain tests and treatments that years of patient experiences reveal has helped!!
How DARE informed thyroid patients learn from years of patient experiences before them and request the same tests and treatment which patients before them used to get well!!
And of course, how dare we go against “appropriate management of thyroid thyroid hormone therapy”–the very therapy which has kept millions in a continued hypothyroid state for decades now. Sorry ATA, we as informed patients are not fooled by your “appropriate” therapy below which we will gleefully stand FIRM against.
- Treated with T4-only (which has kept millions of us since the 1960’s with continued hypothyroid symptoms in our own degree and kind)
- Being held hostage to the man-made TSH lab test range (which patients noted has caused continuing hypothyroid symptoms)
- Your refusal to prescribe the Reverse T3 (RT3) lab test since it’s “unnecessary” (in spite of the fact that rising levels clog our cell receptors which lowers Free T3)
- If T3 is added, failing to give enough to treat one’s need for direct T3 (and of course, because T3 lowers the TSH–an abomination!)
- Calling us “normal” based on erroneous ink spots on a piece of paper (in spite of clear problems related to what is called “normal”)
- Treating clear results of a continued hypothyroid state with more prescription drugs (hypothyroid depression, anxiety, easy weight gain, hair loss, pain, etc)
- Discounting the reality of adrenal/cortisol problems from their “appropriate” treatment as bogus.
And then the second birdbrained comment….
After the comical idea that patients should never request certain tests or treatment which would be inappropriate for proper care, the ATA comes up with another batty conclusion: that if a doctor DARES to “adhere to patient requests”, it may be a “driver for inappropriate care and lead to harm”.
*Yawn*
No ATA, if informed patients (who’ve read the patient-to-patient Stop the Thyroid Madness and/or the books) manage to wisely convince a doctor what they sorely need to feel human again, that doctor is being WISE and HELPFUL. i.e. T3 in their treatment, getting the free T3 optimal, ignoring the low TSH when on T3, and understanding that a reaction to T3 is more about a cortisol problem, just as having a high RT3 can be about low iron or inflammation.
Bottom line
The American Thyroid Association is clearly reacting uncomfortably against the informed patient push contrary to their long-held and HARMFUL beliefs and protocols which have NOT worked for patients and have kept us sick for decades.
No ATA, it’s YOU and the medical professionals who follow your pea-brained ideas which has harmed patients. Put your empty opinions and arrogance on the coat rack and LISTEN TO NEARLY TWO DECADES OF PATIENT EXPERIENCES AND WISDOM in getting well again on Stop the Thyroid Madness. WE are the evidence.
REFERENCES:
The abstract: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2019.0383
From PubMed: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31436135
Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.
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162 Responses to “Informed thyroid patients are officially a bother, says the American Thyroid Association”
JrBor
Thank goodness I became an informed patient but it took losing the last four years of my life to a Dr that kept making comments like “sounds like fibromyalgia.” Each year I returned with worsening debilitating and disabling hypo symptoms. It caused me cortisol and nutritional issues. He knew I only had half a thyroid and the rest didn’t work well on its own. SHortness of breath, dizziness, debilitating fatigue, memory and thinking problems, peripheral neuropathy, toe pain, fluid, pms, irritibility, jaw clenching, body weakness, aches and pain, hypoglycemia, poor unrested sleep and the list goes on and on. The liothyronine in NDT made all of those symptoms go away. Even though my Dr was treating me for hypothyroidism he failed to diagnose my symptoms as hypo, failed to investigate, and at one point he gave me anti inflammatories and even sent me to a chiropractor who gave me steroids for the peripheral neuropathy and carpal tunnel which made me worse, then he sent me to physical therapy, which obviously didn’t work. At one point my Dr said my T4 was too high at 1.6 and my T3 was 2.6 and tried to drop my Levo, like that was going to magically do something, then he said he didn’t know why I responded so poorly. Idiot. I went to a wellness clinic and obgyn who both immediately pointed out that my T3 levels were low and I was put on NDT which proved that I was just T3 starved NOT fibromyalgia. I then went to my GP and confronted him with this info and asked him to sign my medical leave papers because at this point I hadn’t been able to work. When I didn’t get them signed I went on google reviews and outlined the complete negligence of his office over the past three years and how they ruined my life and failed to diagnose my symptoms delaying treatment and T3 that could have improved my health. I got a call that day with a message they had signed my papers. Had I realized this was the problem and not fibro I could have been on the road to feeling better and living my life. Now I’m having to start the process all over again by seeing a functional practitioner this week. It’s going to be a long road probably months and months before I might feel normal again, especially after I had such a hard time with NP Thyroid. After three NDT recalls this year it was causing me anxieties because I felt they aren’t going to be long term reliable. If I hadn’t become informed I would be disabled still.
Heidi
I’m assuming many are aware, but I have just been advised I can’t get my Nature Throid anymore, and I’m out of all my Rx except for a few pills I’ve saved from when they changed my dosage. Upon visiting the RLC Labs site, I found the recall notice below. Does anyone have a suggestion on which product is next best? I don’t know what’s worse, going back to Armour Thyroid or NP Thyroid. I know eventually, I may feel hypo again, and don’t know if I can get the doctor I’m presently seeing to give me a prescription for a compounded Rx or if I can afford it.
August 25, 2020
https://www.rlclabs.com/voluntary-recall-information.html
August 25, 2020
RLC Labs, Inc. is dedicated to the health and safety of our hypothyroid community. As our number one priority, we want to ensure that you are aware of our decision to issue a recall of all unexpired lots of Nature-Throid® (Thyroid USP Tablets) and WP Thyroid® (Thyroid USP Tablets) that are currently in commercial distribution. This recall has been initiated because testing found that certain lots of these products may be sub-potent (i.e. contain less than 90% of the labeled amount of liothyronine or levothryroxine).
We have voluntarily decided to recall all unexpired lots in the marketplace to ensure that patients only receive product that meets our high quality standards.
As of this release, we have not been notified of any adverse reactions from patients related to this recall of Nature-Throid® and/or WP Thyroid®. We are currently working in tandem with the FDA to ensure the quality and safety of our products.
You are encouraged to contact your prescribing health care provider to discuss next steps. If you are currently taking Nature-Throid® or WP Thyroid®, you should not discontinue use without contacting your doctor for further guidance and/or a replacement prescription.
We appreciate your understanding. If you would like to contact our team directly, you can do so at 877-797-7997 or through our website at https://www.rlclabs.com/contact-us.html
Travis
Upon testing my adrenals, my cortisol levels were off the charts, literally. What are some t things that can lower or balance my cortisol levels other than sleep hygiene? HC, adrenal support, etc.?
In addition, what additional labs should I check for if the fear of hair loss/hair thinning & Libido relating to high cortisol?
I hope to get some answers here. Let me know. ASAP. THX!
Janie Bowthorpe
Can you post your saliva results with ranges?
Jason
What supplement recommendations do you recommend to thyroid patients? Anyone??
Martin
I was a sudden onset CFS person (now recovered) for 16 years. I had had a virus 6 months before I suddenly felt fatigue and cognitive symptoms like I could not concentrate and if I moved my head it would be dizzy for a few seconds. I also had light headedness and some orthostatic intolerance. Muscle twitches, restless legs, could not sleep etc. Now recovered, I have been speaking to a guy who got ill in an epidemic of CFS/ME in Incline Village. I asked him if they recovered but some haven’;t yet they have tried all kinds of medications he said. So how can a viral mediated CFS be hypothyroidism then if people have tried thyroxine. I tried levothyroxine 150mcg once with 10 T3 but it did not seem to help my symptoms. Here in the UK, ME.CFS is not seen as hypothyroidism by doctors, but they still don’t understand what ME/CFS is they say. Question@ Is it possible for a virus to attack many people at the same time do you think and cause thyroid dysfunction? And why have people not recovered if they have tried all kinds of meds including I presume thyroxine? I don’t get it
Janie Bowthorpe
Martin, this is more about that for “clearly hypothyroid patients”, CFS is diagnosed when doctors don’t understand that these patients are still very hypo. For them, it’s the still being hypo that’s causing the fatigue, plus all the other issues the still being hypo causes. And a large body of these same hypothyroid patients see the fatigue go away with T3 in their treatment and getting the frees where they should be.
No, there are so many causes of hypothyroid and they don’t all point to a virus at all.
Selene Seltzer
FYI It appears that infections (viral or any pathogen) can cause symptoms resembling hyperthyroid conditions — confusing any
Dx,Tx. There’s been a number of reviews/articles on effects of infection (COVID etc), increased inflammation, increased tachycardia + arrhythmias on thyroid issues + ME/CFS:
– Will coronavirus cause long-term chronic fatigue in some patients- The Washington Post
– An Analysis of the Prolonged COVID-19 Symptoms Survey by Patient-Led Research Team – Body Politic COVID-19 Support Group on Slack, the Facebook Survivor Corps group.
– COVID-19 Can Last for Several Months – by Ed Yong published in The Atlantic
– Thousands Who Got COVID-19 in March Are Still Sick – The Atlantic
– Subacute thyroiditis after SARS-CoV-2 infection
Jason
Why is it better to test cortisols via 24-hour saliva test vs blood?
Is testing cortisols through blood no good or a waste?
Janie Bowthorpe
Answer here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol
MAndingo
Is it best to take supps like selenium and zinc one hour away or with thyroid hormone for best results?
Chris
Hi Janie, or anyone –
Since NP Thyroid is no longer working well for me, my doctor is recommending that I try bioidentical compounded T4/T3. If I’m taking 135 mg of NP, what would be the equivalent dosage for the compounded med? Sorry if a conversion chart is posted elsewhere; I couldn’t locate one and am feeling very foggy right now.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s basically the same amount. And remember to get those frees optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
peggy
Chris, If another post, Janie says “One grain of NDT is 38 mcg t4 and 9 mcg T3.” Hope that helps.
Erika
Chris your not the only one I know how you feel. I have Hashish and I’ve been on nature throid for 5 years and I have felt amazing it will never be perfect but better than synthroid. On my last batch that i picked up from the pharmacy i started to feel severely hypo it’s not working for me either. There have been times in the past where my doctor has taken me off for a while and put me on just T3 3 times a day and eventually that stopped working too and I went back to nature throid.
Janie Bowthorpe
If being on T3 stopped working, that’s because you were underdosing yourself. We all need to be on meds that still work well (Armour, T4 and T3, T3-only, for example) and get optimal. Study this, as not being optimal with your free T3 was why you thought the T3 wasn’t working: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Melanie and David R Schrand
Hi Janie or anyone, I have severe adrenal fatigue. I low aldosterone and low renin out of range. I need help. When I lowered my NDT and added in direct T3, I got worse. My morning cortisol is 7.4 and the rest is high. Am I still a candidate for the circadium method? Do you think this Paul Robinson can help me? My rbc potassium is 101 with a range of 90 -111. Is that good or still too low?
Janie Bowthorpe
When there are so many highs, it’s a lot about taking supplement to lower those highs, which will naturally raise a morning that isn’t seriously low. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ps
Melanie and David R Schrand
HI Janie, my doctor still has me on NP thyroid as she checks the source and she thinks it is fine. But I told her about this site and she agreed to let me try armour or compounded t3 and t4. I was on armour for awhile but I cannot lose weight on either NP thyroid or Armour so I now chose to go with compounded t3 and t4. I believe I have severe adrenal fatigue after a doctor gave me 25,000mg of IV Vitamin C which was supposed to help. Instead it crashed my adrenals. I am now back to weak, shaky, dizzy and off balance and I am taking my adrenal supps and they don’t seem to be working anymore. I believe it is because of NP thyroid. I think it is stressing my adrenals more. My question is finally, I heard that Armour thyroid has gluten in it. Is that true? Do people with Hashi’s take Armour thryoid? Just in case the compounded ones don’t work. Also, my RT3 is 19 which is high. But when I went down on NP thyroid and added in T3 my adrenals got worse. So, i am trying milk thistle with dandelion root now to get down the RT3, but i have to be careful as detoxing makes me weaker. An online adrenal fatigue specialists told me that you will not lose weight as long as you have adrenal fatigue. But, i am eating so clean and careful and I keep gaining when I should be losing. I am not sure if it is my high cortisol or my high Rt3 or both preventing me from losing weight. But Armour did not help either.
Bella
Is anyone following the recent thyroid drug industry lawsuits and FDA actions against the industry?
Pilan
Can you post a link. This is the first ive heard anout this.
Lorie
https://www.thepharmaletter.com/article/knoll-to-settle-synthroid-lawsuit#:~:text=Knoll%20Pharmaceuticals%20has%20agreed%20in,than%20non%2Dprescription%20thyroid%20drugs.
Knoll Pharmaceuticals has agreed in principle to pay $135 million into afund to settle class action lawsuits relating to alleged suppression of research demonstrating that its thyroid medication Synthroid (levothyroxine sodium) was no better than non-prescription thyroid drugs. Knoll did not admit wrongdoing but said that it wanted to avoid a long and expensive legal battle. Synthroid has an 85% share of the synthetic thyroid market.
Mary
Hi Jane,
When taking tirosint, is important to take your thyroid complex/support with the medication or away?
im not talking about soy, calcium, etc.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Mary. We simply avoid taking iron, calcium, estrogen at the same time. Also high fiber which can bind. Estrogen dominance can also bind a little, though not completely. Thus always why we check our frees and get optimal. Hopefully you are not forcing your body to get T3 just from conversion. We need some direct T3. And to get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
James
what about zinc and selenium and b vitamins? what about those?
Victoria N.
I’ve never seen an endo and probably never will because I’ve heard too many horror stories. Back in California I had a peach of a doc who was just a GP and he was great, and loved that I was an informed patient. Now in Texas I am seeing a D.O. who isn’t as open minded as I might like, but at least he will let me stay on my combo of NP Thyroid plus levothyroxine. I saw a county doc (sliding scale payment) when I was dirt poor and had no insurance and I really liked him, actually better than the D.O., but my current insurance won’t cover me seeing him.
Janie Bowthorpe
Victoria, unless you still have a large supply of the prechanged NP thyroid, it doesn’t work well anymore. Lots of people have been seeing their hypothyroidism come back on it, besides a host of other problems.
And adding T4 to what is already 80% T4 raises the risk that your Rt3 is going to go high.
Lots of experiences now since NP thyroid went south is about moving over to armour (which seems to be the only American-made NDT that is still working for most) and simply raising it until your frees are optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Victoria N.
I’ll investigate if my insurance will cover the Armour. Even with Good Rx, it’s too expensive,but if my insurance covers I’d be fine with it. It was my first NDT many, many moons ago. I test Reverse T3 from time to time, but all tests are out of pocket so I can’t afford it every time.
By the way, I used the Ulta Labs link from your website. They were so fast! We (my husband and I) had our blood drawn at about 4:30 pm on a Monday. I got online Tuesday morning at 5:45 am and our results were already posted!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hooray! Ulta is great. For those reading this….https://www.ultalabtests.com/sttm/Shop/Items/MostPopularSearch
Jessie
What are essential supplements as a thyroid patient?
They are so many conflicting information out there.
I want to hear from you. thx
Janie Bowthorpe
Jessie, the reality is that it’s individual.
Remember that some people are supplying certain nutrients just by the good food they eat. Others may not eat certain foods so need the missed nutrients, or have worse absorption than others.
Some people feel that iodine is important for thyroid, yet others get no improvement with their hypothyroid due to iodine use. For those with Hashimoto’s, some need iodine because we know it helps lower antibodies, but others don’t see lowered antibodies from iodine.
Some articles mention B-vitamins, Selenium, Vitamin A, Zinc etc. So you might test them first. If low, then decide how you want to get them, whether through food or supplements.
Pamela
Been taking 65 mg NT for about 4 yrs and was good had to change Dr a few times but I was good,, Then last Sept I was getting to much my Dr said,, but not that bad,, also my BP went up She told me stop taking them and she would call in lower ,well 3 days later I get a call from Pharm and went to get the meds and they were Levo,!! I called and said I can`t take these,, was told to try ,, 2 weeks later I went hypo cause she gave me 75 I was taking 65mg thats only 38 T4,, I made app and Dr (she ) said you were on 65 shouldn`t make a different and older people should not be on T3,,, got put on 50 levo T4 and 3 days later ended up at hospital with heart beating so hard ,, bad,, Dr said my test was almost normal and bp went down,, well needless to say i made app and told her either I get back on NT or I go to another Dr who will help me get back to normal,, She gave me 48 mg NT and BP med and a app for a head Dr,, I left and get my new meds NT med only and started them,, its not enough but Dr goes by TSH not even test T4 ,T3 unless I ask and does not think its important ,, I have app with another Dr in March also stiil have another 90 days on my insurance wlll not pay for it , my question should I not take my NT the morning of the test? I alway do but this is different
What happen to the Nature Throid back then and is it back to reg, I almost went back to as if never taken med when I was off for 3 days ,, test came bach and tsh was 10.30 ,, I looked at my test before when it was suspose to be high and my T4 was about as it has been for over 3 yrs
Help,, I hate feeling like this and can`t get rid of the weight
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Pamela. I believe you that you felt like you were good on only 65 mg NT. But no one is even close to optimal on only 65 mg, besides the fact that Naturethroid went south. All the latter is why your BP went up and having weight issues. So now on only 48 mg, it’s going to be worse. We have to be close to optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie Bowthorpe
And no, we absolutely do not take our meds right before testing. It creates a high from the rising FT3. We don’t measure the rise. We measure what we are hanging onto the next morning, and before taking meds for that testing day.
Pamela
Thank You ,I have some 65 NT left so I tried splitting both in half ,, then my pulse went crazy,,,I got my test back and TSH only again,, was in middle or the range so here we go,, So what is safe to take anymore? I fell better on 48 NT ,, a change for brands or what ? Never had the problem,, My TSH was way way to much much but T4 was in range,, Dr does TSH with reflex ? so should I change brands or try sticking the NT out for a but,, Not sure what to ask my new Dr in March?
Janie Bowthorpe
By NT, are you referring to Naturethroid? It basically stopped working when it came back out in 2018. So it’s not worth it to “stick it out”, as doing so will only stress your adrenals.
Scroll down to see alternatives: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
But you also need to understand what optimal means: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Pamela
Thank you so very much,, yes NT Naturethroid, but Blood pressure is good in the morning but by afternoon my pulse is very high for me,, I will call Dr and see if she will switch me to Armour to try,,, I didn`t have this pulse problem with Levo but I was only on it for about 3 months, I have to do something before I can see the new Dr 25th of March,, Thank You again
If Naturethroid is that bad I might be better off on using T4 if she will not change to Armour,, till I see new Dr This is awfully feeling with my pulse being fast
Lorie
Pamela…
Have you done the Adrenal Self Discovery test yet? You may be dealing with adrenal issues now on top of crappy NT.
Pamela
I Dr app and she changed meds,, I went 1 day without any pills(waiting for Pharm to call and I feel so great and sleep like a baby 7 hr since last Aug and then got meds name brand Synthroid 50 took 1 the next morning felt good till about 5 hr later and back to not sleeping awaking ever 2 hrs to go bathroom,, I took half this morning ,will see I called my Dr to see if she will order me Adrenal and Cortisone test hoping she will do them Crazy how I feel great not taking the Nature Throid for 24 hr and then back to same even changing Med..If she doesn`t do the test where can I get them done so insurance will cover them?
Janie Bowthorpe
You’d need to call your insurance company about that.
Judith
Found a compounding pharmacy, on NDT for 3 weeks, lost 8 lbs., symptoms were better and then everything stopped. My guess is that I need to be on more selenium and iodine supplements. (Waiting for lab results.) Any suggestions are most appreciated.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sounds like you were underdosed and that fact is now kicking in. See where we are when it doesn’t stop or backfire: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Judith
Janie, thank you – on 259 mg., presently.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Hopefully you have read the link I sent. 🙂
Judith
Yes, I did after I sent you the dosage; will see how my NP proceeds!
Thanks SO much! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Judith
Physician’s Comment
Cut back on medication
Component Value Unit Standard Range Out of Range
T3, FREE 5.7 pg/mL 2.3-4.2
A Free T4 was not done, but wants to cut back on meds, as above.
I gave her your STTM II, but apparently, it was not referenced. Perhaps, I now have Hashi’s?
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Judith
Janie Bowthorpe
The problem is that you may have a low FT4 with that high FT3, and that’s not about cutting down. It’s an adrenal problem if you are on a working NDT.
Judith
Janie, upon further reading, yes, I agree with you! Much thanks!
Judith
Janie, was put on Phosphatidylserine for my ADHD, which I see is indicated for high cortisol; can this elevate my Free T3??
Janie Bowthorpe
PS doesn’t raise FT3. You need to get the FT4, plus an RT3 for further info. And see if anything gives a clue here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Judith
I ordered the saliva cortisol test from mymed.
Much thanks!
Judith
Hi Janie! I am addressing my adrenal issues. My RT3: 11 (8-25) After 4 days on 1.5 gr NDT I am losing 1 lb. a day. Know I have to be optimal, but is this weight loss “normal”? As always, much thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
For some, yes. If you are already skinny, just increase healthy calories.
Robin
I now have afib and was actually bullied by my cardiologist about being on armour thyroid. He said I should be on levo, my TSH was way to low. I said I was on it for 1.5 years and felt worse until I got my doc to put me on armour. Long story short, it’s been one heck of a very long unpleasant ride. I’m finally up to about where I should be. As long as I can keep my t4, t3, rt3 in range my heart doesn’t act up. As soon as that goes out of wack, I end up in the hospital. This started 3 years ago, after what I believe was way to many years being under-treated, age doesn’t help either. My functional doc has helped me the most.
Linda
I was on levothirocine Synthroid and had terrible heart palpitations. Fought with my insurance co. To put me on Synthroid finally did heart palpitations are gone for the most part but having a problem regulating my dosage. My daughter is a RN so you can be sure I get a long speech about being my own doctor.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Can’t tell by how you wrote that, but if you are on nothing but Synthroid, you might want to read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Roxyann
I surely sympathize. I was told by the regulating agencies that providers are ‘willingly ignorant’ about what is going on with thyroid treatment & deliberately misdiagnose. If you are elderly or disabled be assured you will be improperly medicated. We know the problem. How do we fix it? Changing doctors is no longer an option since all medical records are ‘in the cloud’ & accessible by any one. So, if you disagree with the provider & she is malicious (as is mine) she can write up any old thing she wants & it will become part of your medical profile whether or not it is true or accurate. I learned this within the last week. There is NO HIPAA in the medical records dept.
Dorothy
You have the right to request an “opt out” of the electronic medical record. They won’t tell you this. It was set up to automatically include your records in the cloud unless you opt out.
Michelle
Hi Janie,
Do you have information regarding “sub-clinical hyperthyroidism” I have had symptoms my whole life and in the past two years had two miscarriages however doctors are telling me “we don’t treat sub-clinical hyperthyroidism”. I recently tried to get an appointment with an endocrinologist she looked at my labs said they were “normal” even though they are not (T3 and T4 normal but TSH is low) and that I needed a reproductive endocrinologist. Reproductive endocrinologist focus on infertility – which we are NOT we have conceived twice, naturally. I finally did get an appointment with a regular endocrinologist and I’m looking for advice in terms of what I should explore/ask for when I go to the appointment. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Can you post your free T3, free T4, and RT3 with ranges?
Roxyann
If you are on any vit supplements, quit them for about 2 weeks & see if you can get a thyroid blood test without biotin. It made a HUGE difference in my lab results (see FDA,ATA,Endo. Soc warnings on biotin. I found the articles to be very enlightening.). The problem may be getting your provider to accept the info. Good luck.
Michelle
Hi Janie,
I don’t have the ranges, but my T3 3.0, T4 1.30 and TSH 0.175
Thanks,
Michelle
Janie Bowthorpe
Sadly, I can’t help much without the ranges and can only guess your frees are not optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Roxyann
I had been stable on the Levo 124mcg for more than a decade until a (looking for a politically correct term here) idiot woman? Will that work? Decided to reduce my meds. Also known as withhold. Nearly killed me. Since then she has been completely uncooperative in returning my correct dosage, completely ignoring ALL info regarding the hypothyroid problem. In an effort to continue regaining my health & hopefully maintaining it without a braindamaged “Provider” I am looking into raw thyroid. Maybe I can eventually get rid of these new idiotic ideas & remain healthy. Anyone else have a similar experience? I would like to eventually post an ‘improvement & Praise post’ on here! Once I got the correct labs my tests are ok. Doesn’t make a difference to this female-(I swear she is OCD & mentally ill!) & her counterpart psychopath male. Looking for advice…..
Janie Bowthorpe
That was funny…the “idiot woman”. But not funny what you’ve had to go through. And yes, it’s been happening to others. People are looking for a much better doctor, or self-treating.
Roxyann
Thanks for that response. I feel better already. Problem: I have no doctor to change to. I live in a small community with limited providers. In the past when a provider proved unwilling to listen I went to a new one. Now there is nowhere to go. I have no choice but to self treat & I just don’t know how to do it. He gave me a portion of the needed dosage 112mcg but I don’t know how to get the 12mcg I need to add to it. Add to it that the providers here don’t believe in HIPPA. So, instead of going by the patient & the tests they go by the ‘info’ provided my…uh..(politically incorrect again?) incompetent NP. I am so lost here.
Robin
I completely get the small community. I too live in a small community, 4.5 hours away from any city. Thank God I found a functional doc here. There are now two in our area. It’s hard, I know but if you have to leave the area to find a doc that’ll work with you.
Roxyann
Wish I could. I am home bound & no one is willing to drive 1 1/2 miles out of their way to see me. The only functional clinic around here doesn’t do house calls as they are approx 40 miles away. Can’t blame them but there ya have it. I am pretty much on my own.
Judy
I just go my saliva cortisol results back. They’re a bit on the low side Not too low. I’m thinking of supplementing with Adrenal cortex. Has anyone tried Nutri Meds Adrenal cortex supplements I would like to hear of anyone’s experience. Did it work for anyone. Did they feel better. Any input would be appreciated
Thanks!
Robin
I use American Biological cortex, it is sometimes very hard to find. I’ve tried a few brands and it seems to be the only one that helps me. Also use a smaller dose in the afternoon, by Thorne. But just switched over to Seeking Health Adrenal cortex.
Sarah Burgess
Janie, I’m new to this journey. Heading to dr. tomorrow and was reading all over your site. So much info!! I have a question in response to your answers to Terry below about starting two new meds. You mention “They can work. Just get your T’s optimal”. I’m not sure if you are saying to “supplement” the prescriptions with over the counter T meds? Or just saying to watch the two new meds with tests to make sure they’re optimal. How do you know when your optimal? Thanks for any info. I’m trying to get my info straight to be able to make a case to the dr. Sarah
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Sarah. It’s referring to moving over to T4 and T3 as the main treatment for hypothyroid all by themselves. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Terry
Thyroid removed 2002 due to cancer. Eleven years of synthroid just about killed me. Changed doctors and started armor 2007, then erfa, then naturethroid and now np Acella after each went south. I have been optimal on Acella and cytomel added last May 2019. Doing great, now I’ve been following the Acella sad saga. I have dr appt tomorrow and trying to decide the least of the evils. Open to suggestions. Thanks to finding Janie’s book & natural dedicated thyroid has changed my life for the better. What now??
Janie Bowthorpe
Look into the equivalent amount of T4 and T3 for whatever was working for you before. For example, one grain equals approximately 38 mcgs of T4 and 9 mcgs of T3. So you can figure your total amount based on what you were on. Remember that even on T4 and T3, you do want to get optimal. So it’s important to test after you move over within a few weeks. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Terry
Thank you so much. Thinking of switching to Tirosint. Is there a conversion chart for switching from Acella to Tirosint? I take two Acella 60 mg and two in evening. I also take cytomel 5 mcg in am and pm. Gonna get lab work done today.
Janie Bowthorpe
One grain of NDT is 38 mcg t4 and 9 mcg T3.
Terry
Thx Janie, sorry I asked the same thing twice – just nervous about appt today. Got scripts for tirosint and cytomel – fingers crossed, first time off NDA since 2007. More labs in 4 months.
Janie Bowthorpe
They can work. 🙂 Just get your frees optimal.
Roxyann
Are you saying I can replace my Levo with the T4 & T3? How do I find that product? I am optimal on the Levo 124mcg but this woman & her buddy decided if I asked 1 more time for the correct dose they will refuse ALL future refills of all my meds (3). I can’t do that. What product do I need, please?
Janie Bowthorpe
Nutrimeds is one example. It’s from bovine and has both T4 and T3, but also T2, T1 and calcitonin. People have reported being pleased with it. But it’s important to keep track of the frees and also have good iron and cortisol to avoid issues with raising.
Roxyann
Thank you. All my…um…ingredients?? are good. As long as I had my correct dosage my symptoms were minimal. Since my doctor refuses to give me any more blood tests or referrals I am not sure how to do what you suggest. I will see what I can figure out.
Roxyann
Is anyone familiar with Thyrovanz? It appears I may be able to get that without a script. Apparently it is bovine from New Zealand.
Tom
Hi,
I’m having trouble finding a good thyroid doctor in the Massachusetts,
Rhode island area. Anybody out there who can suggest someone ?
I’m new to the group and have been on Levox/synthetic for about 20
Years and want to get to the botyombof my symptoms.
Thanks so much,
Tom
Janie Bowthorpe
Here’s the bottom of your thyroid symptoms: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
jeff bezos
What do you think of T3 only treatment?
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s fine. You just have to multi-dose it approximately every four hours apart up to 3 times a day.
Belle
Further to the points made in the blog post, the preface to Dr. Henry Lindner’s ebook entitled, The Art and Science of Hormone Restoration (2018), contains a chilling account of his experience as an endocrinologist who has dared to think outside of the box, and the very difficult position that this has put him – and his patients – in, when each has to interact with the traditional medical community. (The relevant portion can be found toward the end of the preface.)
It’s a Must-Read for all informed thyroid patients.
http://www.hormonerestoration.com/Ebook.html
Ben H
I too have used T4/T3 for a long time and now none of it works. The best was Naturethroid, now I just recently filled my perscript with Armour and it is awful, feel horrible and flat. So I decided to try something new as I had a thought one day. What if all theses thyroid manufactures were shorting people on T3 and that’s why they felt so good for so long. Now hear me out on this. Many years ago I had taken just T4 and it did not work for what ever reason but I had a thought just take it and see what happens so that what I did and you know what I started to feel better, huh. So after that I decided to add some T3 that the doc said I could try and you know what I started feeling awful again. I think the FDA made all of these companies put the right amount of T3 back in their drugs and now I think is too much. This week has been the best I have felt since the old Naturthroid days of 2017 and prior. I will check my numbers soon and report back on my new findings I hope it works as there is nothing left for me to take of the NDT stuff that works now.
Amy Lynn
@Ben H so what are you on now that has you feeling better, the best you’ve felt since the Naturethroid/2017? Confused by your post, as you said T3/T4 now none of it works, and that there’s nothing left of Ndt’s that work. Thanks!
Ben H
I have been on straight T4 for a few weeks. I know it’s working as I get palpitations with it sometimes. I am now able to convert T4 to T3 as I have changed my lifestyle since the first time that I used it. I also take selenium when I take my T4 which has helped a lot. As my trainer at the gym said, the more you workout with weights the more HGH you will make and I found out that helps T4 conversion also. Just need to get my numbers closer and I am hoping this works as like I said before, everytime I take something with T3 in it I get fatigued but I never had that problem prior to the manufacturers changing all the NDT products out there now. My adrenals and cortisol were all normal.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ben, years and literally decades of patient experiences and reports show you’re asking for trouble by forcing your body to live for conversion alone. And by the way, having palps does not mean it’s working in the way it needs to work…but fails us.
Sure, you may feel positive right now. And yes, you may go awhile feeling positive about being on nothing but a storage hormone. But too many experiences show it will backfire on you, sooner or later.
If you got fatigue from T3, that most likely means you weren’t on enough. Being on T3, which is the most powerful and life-changing thyroid hormone, will definitely suppress our own production of it, even if our production is less than optimal. Thus, we are “suppressing” more than “replacing” if we don’t find an optimal dose of T3.
Also, your last sentence implies you may now already have an adrenal problem by the use of the words “were all normal”. And sadly, your use of T4 only raises the risk that your adrenals will get worse because of compensating for a poor treatment. We have seen that for years now.
Judy
Bob.
How much T4 do you take?
Janie Bowthorpe
Just an FYI before he answers: each person’s need for a thyroid hormone can be different based on what it takes to get the free T4 and free T3 optimal. So Ben’s T4 amount should never been seen as a guide for everyone.
Cathy
I switched from Levothyroxine to Thyrovanz (150 mg) two weeks ago and I’ve already lost 3 kg with no effort or change in diet. I am awake from 7 am until midnight every day and I do not get tired during the day. My doctor kept telling me that my blood tests “look good” despite me telling him that I still had hypothyroid symptoms (aches and pains, hair falling out, chronic fatigue, shortness of breath etc), despite a really healthy diet and good supplementation. At the last visit, he asked me a series of ‘depression’ questions so he could diagnose me with depression and add another drug to my daily intake. As a therapist, I recognised what he was doing and stopped him mid-sentence. I told him that I am “not depressed, just very tired a lot of the time”, and “I do not want to take an anti-depressant drug”. I then ended the session abruptly, walked out and vowed inwardly that I would find a way to cure myself no-matter-what! A few months ago my iron blood test showed I was extremely low, which further explained the symptoms I was experiencing. After being on an organic iron supplement since then (with Vitamin C), I’ve been feeling much better and my hair has stopped falling out. I actually feel more alert and have more energy (and no shortness of breath). I also added Zinc, Selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E and Ashwagandha (adaptogen herb) to my existing daily supplements (B multi, magnesium, Vitamin D, probiotic), and these have all contributed to my better health. I also take Lugol’s Iodine in water an hour after taking my morning Thyrovanz capsule, and an hour before eating breakfast. I have suffered the effects of hypothyroidism for a decade with no joy until recently. I believe that the body knows how to heal itself once it’s given the right environment, nutrients/minerals and whatever other natural ‘resources’ it needs for the job. This is why the body immediately begins to heal itself when we injure ourselves–a small cut on the body will visibly heal within one week! I’ve always believed in my ability to help my body to heal itself, but I ended up going to see a doctor (reluctantly) about six years ago because, despite all my knowledgeable efforts, I was still struggling with chronic fatigue and was finding it hard to get through my work day. However, it was through my tedious and frustrating doctor-patient journey that I learned what I needed to know to get myself healthier. The key is to keep searching and researching, to gain new knowledge that will enable you to try out different things until you get a breakthrough. The right knowledge will help you to change your environment, diet, supplementation and lifestyle–to give your body the opportunity to effectively heal itself. Also, drink natural, pure water (with no fluoride etc), move about as much as you can, breathe more deeply, eat the right foods, take the right supplements and think positively. Knowledge really is power! Lastly, the Stop the Thyroid Madness book was a Godsend, and was instrumental in giving me the knowledge I needed about T4/T3 and how it all really works. I fully recommend this book (and any updated versions) to anyone struggling with thyroid issues.
Alexa
When I was first recommended to see an Endo, I thought he was going to run ALL KINDS OF BLOODWORK. After about 3 visits, it seemed clear that he wasn’t. I think it was this visit that I told him that I needed help to do my homework from college; I couldn’t punctuate a simple sentence. I showed him the sentence. He said, WOW! I took it upon myself to tell him,
ME: I want my other hormones checked, they’ve NEVER been checked.
DR: I think they will come back ALL NORMAL!
ME: I want to do process of elimination; they’ve never been checked.
He ordered my estrogen, progesterone and testosterone along with FT3, FT4.
When they came back I was told Dr. H wasn’t available, you’ll have to see his assistant. I was fine with that, a doctor is a doctor.
The reason is because I WAS HARDLY PRODUCING ANY HORMONES!! ALL were so LOW.
After taking one dose of all 3 I couldn’t sleep. The next night, I decided to cut down on the Armour dose.
Each day forward, I needed to cut down on Armour & Levothyroxine. In a short time, I was no longer taking thyroid medication. I was shocked at having to beg to have my other hormones checked. I thought for sure he would be willing to run the tests and begin to help me improve my health. He was probably disappointed when the tests showed how low all of my hormones were since he didn’t want to see me at my next appointment.
Belle
Found a published paper, written by an MD, that some docs might be open to reading :”The Swinging Pendulum in Treatment for Hypothyroidism: From (and Toward?) Combination Therapy”: //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6629976/#!po=0.373134
Extremely frustrated by the status quo. The old WP Thyroid gave me my life back, and it took years of suffering and struggling with doctors to get to finally get that relief. I am now going down the same path “Beaux” has set off on. Wish us luck.
Beaux
This is why I have embarked on self treatment with OTC bovine NDT, self tests, and self supplements. NO DOCTORS. NO INSURSURANCE. NO PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES. I’d rather die or go broke with the freedom and control of my own biology than to give another penny to these broken systems of ignorance, greed, and contempt.
Martin
May I ask what bovine NDT you are now using?
I am considering Thyrovanz because I seem to react badly to the amino acids they put in many of the other products. How much do you have to up the dosage from the prescription brands?
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions you can make, Thanks.
Joan Price
I am using AllergyResourseCenter Thyroid Natural Glandular formulated by Dr Nicholas Gonzalez, prescribed by my Functional Medicine MD. (I’m not sure one needs a prescription.) I just started yesterday, so, not sure how it will work out for me.
Beaux
I’m using Thyrovanz – join the Facebook group “Thyrovanz Users.” Search the group for “dosing” from Jamie Horwitz, she has a protocol for switching that could get you started. They’re not fast at approving and addressing individual posts since the group is so large, but most of your initial questions will probably have been addressed so just use the search feature and/or peruse other people’s health posts. They also do a good job of promoting STTM wisdom. Note that I have not (yet) achieved optimal as I’ve only made the switch 4-5 weeks ago so I’m in process, but my DAT’s are higher than they’ve been since I’ve been monitoring them (years).
Roxyann
You might notice I am very new here but looks like there may be hope. I don’t do facebook. Have to borrow a neighbor computer. Is there a way to get the info Beau gave as to where to get & how to use the bovine thyroid? Once my script runs out I will be OUT of my needed dose. My Dr. Is absolutely not open to ANY ideas. Long story & not for here. I need help, please?
Janie Bowthorpe
There are two that are pretty reliable: NutriMeds and Thyrovanz. Thyrogold has had problems, but we hear that Tammy will be using a different distributor by March which will hopefully improve it.
It’s really not easy to figure out how to use the OTC versions. Generally, patients start low and make their way up in small amounts. It’s important to do the free T3 and free T4, trying to get close to optimal without having any problems on the way up: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal But it’s also important to have good iron and cortisol. If there are problems, patients go back to the dose that had no problems. As we get older, there is a possibility we won’t need as much as when younger, but others are still on the same amount. It’s individual.
Grace
Beaux, trying to find where to order my bovine NDT, that is why I arrived at this website today. Where do you order/purchase yours from? I bought Xymogen from a functional M.D. but I cannot afford another consult with him plus I currently live 1100 miles from there.
Beaux
See my reply above to Martin.
Catherine
Bottom line is that our society has fostered a libelous community. Doctors are forced to consider liability first and patient needs second. They will do a procedure that will put you in a lifetime of pain vs treating the patient with a conservative approach as they need to CYA. This cover your ass first approach is what has ruined medical care in our country. Some of the old school doctora still care about us but that is becoming sparse and hard to find as they retire.
As long as we do not drop dead under their care all is good. Let us die or suffer under an indirectly related conditions that results from substandard or inappropriate care.
We are forced to navigate through a sea of sharks to get the care that we deserve watching and protecting ourselves at every turn. We can no longer blindly put ourselves in the hands of doctors.
This is the ruthless truth. Career before patient.
Roxyann
Add a few details & you could be talking about me. I honestly think they ARE trying to kill me. I am 72 & the NP with held my levo for 5 days. Just bam! No quality doctors left for me here in our small community. Need to find help.
Joanne
I’ve been on NDT for 14 years, and doing well. During one of the shortages I was no able to get my NDT and I quickly went down hill. It took about 6 months to return to health. Well now I am soon to be enrolling into Medicare. To my horror, I will not be able to get my NDT through my current mail order pharmacy. It is not covered and they will not allow me to purchase since they are an insurance only provider. They pharmacys in my area have had difficulty obtaining NDT for the past year. That is why I needed to use a mail order pharmacy. I’m trying to find out if I can find another mail order pharmacy that will allow me to purchase without a drug plan. Has anyone gone or is having the same difficulty. I’m really frightened that I will not be able to have to quality of life that I have been experiencing.I’m also sure the price out pocket is going to be enormous.
Hope
Well, Joanne, I’ll try to abbreviate. I have literally fought the medical profession for the past several years trying to save my health. And, when I enrolled in Medicare in 2018, things got even more complicated. Long story short, I am on 90mg of Armour and I have to pay for it out of pocket. Around $100 a month. I don’t know if that helps but that’s the reality for me. I might add, I have worked with a wonderful functional medicine practitioner for the past 11 years and she has literally saved my life. I am 66 years old (will be 67 soon) and the Armour is the only prescription medication I take. I had the RAI in 1987 and no one ever said a word to me about what I was going to encounter later. And about 15 years ago, it all started coming unwound. The rude awakening when I turned 65 and enrolled in Medicare was the medical profession and Big Pharma see me as a lab rat and a cash cow.
Elizabeth S.
My pharmacy also is unable to get the Thyroid USP powder that they used for compounded NDT capsules that made me feel great for nearly 10 years. Since last year, I’ve been struggling on various tablet formulations that don’t work as well for me (Armour, Nature-Throid, and WP-Thyroid). I finally thought I found compounded at CareFirst, a mail order pharmacy out of New Jersey. I was really hopeful until my refill capsules were a different color and I started feeling awful. I am now getting by on WP-Thyroid but I am not optimal. I have dark circles under my eyes and I am tired all the time. I feel particularly bad in the morning when it feels like I have zero T3 in my system. If anyone is getting a good quality compounded NDT from a mail order pharmacy, please share! I am getting desperate. I caught a really bad cold for the first time in about 6-7 years. When I was optimal, I never got sick! I am really tired of living in a run-down state.
Howard M
Joanne, there are multiple options for purchasing NDT that isn’t covered by Medicare. You will need a doctor’s Rx. The least expensive is likely to be a chain pharmacy such as Walgreens, CVS, etc. Go to goodrx.com, put in your drug info, and then print out the coupon. Bring it to the pharmacy and have them run it thorough the GoodRx codes instead of your regular Rx insurance codes. Works for me. Another very reliable online pharmacy option is healthwarehouse.com.
Donna
I cannot put into words how much this subject pisses me off….OPEN LETTER TO A THYROID DOCTOR: “Dear Thyroid Doctor “It’s just too bad you consider me, a highly informed thyroid patient, “a bother.” This is exactly why I choose a Functional Medicine Physciain who WANTS to work with me in partnership on my health. You have lost me and many others in the same situation due to your arrogance and short term thinking. We informed patients no longer see you as a medical God and no longer want to blindly follow your advice without doing our own research first. It was a doctor like you that tested only a few of my markers and found me to be “fine/within range” when I indeed had Autoimmune Hashimotos’, adrenal fatigue, a huge goiter and two thyroid nodules. You have lost my confidence in your ability treat me and others like me.” You are fired!
DAL
DJ
So, The American Thyroid Association – I’m guessing their studies are largely funded by the pharmacuetical company that manufactures Levothyroxin/Synthyroid? Or what is the root of the T4 obsession? Where did that begin?
Janie Bowthorpe
That is all in Chapter 1 of the updated revision STTM book. And medical schools are heavily funded by the makers of Synthroid.
Bailey
This hits close to home today. After a few years of struggling to treat on my own and arguing with my husband about his desire for an “actual diagnosis”, I went to establish care with a new doctor today. I have been taking NDT over the counter for about 3 years, until 5 weeks ago. I am miserable. Since stopping the NDT I have chronic headaches, depression, gaining weight rapidly, the list goes on. I stopped taking the NDT in hopes of getting “clean” labs and working with a doctor that would help me sort things out *facepalm* I know better. I left today feeling worse than when I walked in and with a prescription for Zoloft, which I have no intention of taking. This doctor told me that the labs I requested were unnecessary because TSH tells us when our thyroid isn’t working properly. That having little to no TSH (as a result of the NDT) was harmful. Never bothered to ask why I thought I was hypo, when the depressed feelings started or accept that it correlated with when I stopped the NDT. They would rather tell me I am depressed and the fact that I have no body hair and am going bald at the age of 34 and have horrible struggles with my cycle among countless other red flags for hypo, is normal.
Amy
I hadn’t needed a doctor until hypo hit. I have been appalled at what I have experienced. Simply put my education allows me to challenge them and I have found terrible diagnostics, improper dosages, testing … I have been forced to have $$ procedures which I feel were intended to pad their wallets. I am not exaggerating as in one case I filed a formal complaint and the insurer went after them. I had a “mere” chiro find in 15 min what 7 “specialists” missed. I refuse to ever see an endo again, they were the worst. I have family overseas and needed a surgery which my expensive insurance here denied 2x despite 5 surgeons saying I needed it asap. It would have cost me 120k here. I had it done in Germany for 13k and with far better technology. I have no doubt the ATA is recognizing the change in patient education and pushing back. This is big $ but at our expense. To think an educated patient is interfering with proper care, ha! Tell that to some of the docs who hung their head when I figured out my own issues with some help of course. None of them deny my diagnoses today. I do believe the doctors were worried about me but the US health care system dropped the ball and repeatedly. This is a systemic issue and they are not unaware…I had some enlightening conversations more than once. We need to fight to protect our health and pay attention to laws which may be deleterious to us. I am concerned that will be the next move to protect their pockets. I have written to my representatives on the subject but we need a big name or a physician to represent the cause so to speak. As a patient I adamantly enforce my own care and I verify everything before agreeing to it. I do not want to “play doctor” I feel I have too.
C. Mitchell
I honestly can’t imagine how irresponsible any doc could be, not to give patients any & all tests they or their insurance are willing to pay for. Since all humans (and computers too, actually) are fallible & miss things sometimes? Along with all the benefits of simply giving the patient the full peace of mind they need? How is that not worth the money they’re paying you for your time? Is the test you think they don’t need really any different from a second opinion? Yes, because you’ll have more confirmed information at your disposal for the both of you. Your job will be completed to an even further degree, so you both rest easier. Complaining about performing one’s *full job is approximately as backwards & corrupt as any officer who complains about the extra time it takes to not use violence. If you don’t think you have the time to handle it, fine; just pass the paycheck to a qualified person who does & we’ll all be better off.
Dorothy
This article is a good example of what happens when medical schools shut-down curiosity and questioning of their students, and encourages medical paternalism. Instead of these researchers & doctor at the University of Michigan surveying what happens when patients assert themselves, perhaps we all would be better served if they spent their time questioning and researching why so many treated thyroid patients continue to have symptoms (and develop better treatment strategies).
Especially irritating and unacceptable is this comes after a 2016 research study finding hypothyroid symptoms remain despite treatment. Dr Antonio Bianco, past ATA president and a researcher in this study said “Doctors should be telling their patients, ‘I’m going to normalize your TSH, but you’re going to be at a higher risk for gaining weight, experiencing depression and fatigue. It is also more likely that your cholesterol will go up.’ ” This is beyond nonsense and should be malpractice.
https://www.rush.edu/news/press-releases/hypothyroidism-symptoms-linger-despite-medication-use-normal-blood-tests
Susan Siens
Dr Levy, in his book about Vitamin C and its uses, discusses why doctors are such utter conformists.
Linda Duncan
My latest Endo visit was a real challenge. It was all I could do NOT to walk out.
In the visit as usual they check all my weight and BP etc… so all that was very normal (except for my consistent 25 lbs overweight that I have been HOLDING since I started Armour Thyroid in 2015. (Though I have no longer gained weight since starting Armour Thyroid)
The medical group UTMB in Galveston TX, is also a College branch. Which means that an Intern will do the initial evaluation questions. The questions are about which supplements/vitamins I take and a discussion about the previous labs. For my own records, between the last 6-month visit, I have been paying for my own labs about every 6 weeks. They have shown improvement with my antibodies, iron, cholesterol, T3s and T4s, which have been normal or just a little low. TSH has been below 0.01 since I started Armour. BUT Armour has made me feel more balanced. When I get these results I pay for, I can change my diet to keep healthy, as well as I know how.
The Endo Drs I have seen, are constantly telling me that I need to lower my dose. But I know that when TSH is 2.+ or more, I don’t feel good and have a hard time participating with family or enjoying anything, I will also have anxiety and gain weight feeling no energy etc.
I told the intern that I would be keeping my dose and doing the same as I have been since the last visit and would appreciate the Dr ordering the Labs (STTM) recommended. I even had to raise my voice to insist I get these checked for their records. Paying out of my own pocket within the last 6 months, I wanted THEM to use my insurance and have the latest results on record. Also, insurance won’t pay for labs but every 6 months or only every year!! I disagree that waiting that long in-between labs only gets me way off track and sick.
Anyway, when the REAL Dr came in after the Intern had spoke to her behind closed doors, the Dr backed up the Interns diagnoses and recommendations. I really was angry. Why would I trust someone with very little experience about the symptoms and individual labs that a Hypothyroid disease puts us through. If I tell them that “I’m feeling as good and close to normal but would like a check on labs” then they should want a good count on labs for ME.
Since their last labs, I had been having trouble with my anemia OR too much iron, and had to beg them to check my blood count. (they wanted me to go see a Hematologist then!!) Frustrated as I felt, then the Dr said to me “you really need to get a PCP for those blood tests” (it appears that this Endo only wants to study TSH and T levels.)
I disagreeded and told the DR that the thyroid controls blood and Cholesterol, and checking the Antibodies would be a good sign that you’re not going through unnecessary pain and inflammation etc.!! And To keep a count on the Ts 3 & 4 as to check the total balance, is what I NEED.
She then asked me “Do you know what TSH is?” I thought for a second why she asked it that way… then told her “It’s a hormone”. She then said how do you get it? I told her, your pituitary gland tells your thyroid to produce Thyroxine. I think she was testing me… But then she mentioned If you have too much causing a very low TSH count, then it can cause you a heart attack or Stroke in time. Then she still insisted that I lower my dose of meds.
I asked the Endo Dr “Do you have hypo?” and she said “No” So then I said, “How would you know how I feel?”
She then agreed that she wouldn’t but that the Medical guide lines that many Drs must “GO BY “are what She must implement under the “Standards”. Then the Endo left the room and wanted me to get my Thyroid labs done after a month (which is 7 months between testing for her records)
Well… as I was leaving, I looked straight at the Intern in training, and said, I was not coming back. Her expression appeared as if she had accomplished her “Treatment recommendations, in spite of the fact I wasn’t coming back”
I really felt alone and helpless about who I could trust to GUIDE me. I know I will “again” be looking for another Dr. and how could I possibly go to a PCP Family Dr who probably doesn’t treat Hypo patients. It’s stressful to deal with people who haven’t lived it. ☹
Hope
I feel your pain and frustration. I have felt so badly for so many years. I am weary of fighting with the medical profession. My thyroid gland was ‘killed off’ 32 years ago with RAI and all the doctors wanted to shove at me was Levothyroxine. It is a journey and you are spot on. If a person hasn’t lived it, they can’t understand. It’s tragic the doctors that are being turned out today. They cannot think. They are taught to prescribe to the symptoms. And if you’re my age (nearly 67) they are muttering under their breath, she’s going to die anyway.
Paige Kelley
If you’re female, fat, and forty, (or over) guaranteed, the physician will tell you to “exercise and lose weight.” That’s what happened to me when I turned 40 and had unexplained symptoms. I countered with, “I run 3 miles a day and have lost 35 lbs in the past year. Is that enough for you?” Then the neurologist walked over to my purse, picked it up, and said “It’s too heavy. Lighten it up.” He also declared I had too much stress in my life and it could be helped by massage therapy. (which was conveniently offered through his office) I told him that now that my two toddlers napped at the same time, and the other was in school, my life was wonderful. I LOVED having little ones. He ignored me. The next visit, I even had a suggestion for a diagnosis…which he immediately dismissed. “Too rare! Impossible!” Next visit, I showed up with a CT scan ordered by my primary, and its results/reading- which indicated the exact diagnosis (sarcoidosis)he had so arrogantly dismissed. He FINALLY ordered some tests.
Several years later, I repeatedly told my rheumatologist that I felt like I had been run over by a Mack truck. She insisted that I must do aerobic exercise. I said the only thing that helped was working in my garden. “Not aerobic enough” she said. I showed her a picture of the retaining wall I had built. “Well, no wonder you hurt.That’s TOO much!” she said. (Cue eye roll) I ended up getting a second opinion. I was hypothyroid and had a Vitamin D level of 17. My rheumatologist didn’t appreciate the second opinion, and became snarky and unprofessional, as well as very dismissive of the treatment recommendations of the fibromyalgia/fatigue clinic. (Which included bioidentical thyroid) I ended up leaving her. She missed the obvious clues I had been giving her. She could have solved my problem on her own, but apparently I was only a fibromyalgia and sarcoidosis patient to her- and she couldn’t see beyond that. As a doctor, she should have known that people develop other problems that need to be treated, but she had developed tunnel vision.
It’s been 19 years, and I continue to see only one of the doctors from those years, a wonderful pulmonologist. A good primary went into concierge medicine. The rest are long gone. As a nurse, I have no tolerance for incompetent or dismissive and arrogant physicians.
Mary Renken
I found a perfect companion survey of hypothyroid patients:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29620972
Janie Bowthorpe
Bingo. And satisfaction would have been even higher is they knew to raise until optimal, and had good iron and cortisol to be able to raise well.
Catherine
So they can create a Frankenstein such as myself by removing half of my thyroid due to papillary carcinoma that rarely spreads outside the neck anyway and where the treatments are often more harmful than the cancer and then refuse to take responsibility and treat us? That is what I am reading. Let’s put them in our shoes and see how much they enjoy their quality of life!
Susan
I have had TSH tested and doctors say it’s normal. However I have so many symptoms of thyroid problems but docs are just throwing more and more prescriptions At me to treat symptoms. I asked for a full thyroid panel of blood work but when I got to the lab it was only another TSH. The doctor said unless it was abnormal there was no reason to test anything else.
connie hill
What is the latest on change in NP thyroid? I have gained ten # in one month all the sudden! What’s an alternate treatment?
Janie Bowthorpe
The latest is that it sucks. Run. Alternatives listed on this blog post (and sign up to be notified by email about new blog posts on the bottom of any page on STTM): https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2019/09/23/the-sad-saga-of-where-we-are-today-as-hypothyroid-patients/
P.S. When you have signed up and get an email notification of the blog post, DO NOT REPLY TO THE EMAIL. Click on the underlined title of the blog post and post directly on the blog post. 🙂
Liz
I too have gained an excessive amount of weight this last month on 240 mg NP thyroid??
Montana NAR
I have also gained 10# on this last bottle of NP Thyroid.
Susan Siens
Wow, you all make me feel lucky. I’m still taking NP Thyroid and I am definitely under-dosed due to concern about further stressing my overstressed adrenal glands. But I haven’t gained any weight! Do any of you take Lugol’s solution or another form of iodine?
Rachel Hamlin
I’m on a call with Acella now on hold trying to talk to their NP specialist. THe first line rep says no change was made when I said that was false she said the only change was in supplier, that the porcine thyroid comes from europe now and she speculated it was how they were raised but claimed that no filler etc had changed. Again using the “cosmetic” change line which I told her was false. In any case when I started crying about how this was going to ruin not only my life but my young kids. SO I got through to DAvid as some have mentioned and he gave me a case number but says it should be fine this new supplier was thoroughly vetted and claims that they’ll send me a mailer to send some pills back.
In any case — if enough people call and go through starting a case file maybe they’ll start to take us seriously……
Susan Siens
I will do as you suggest, Rachel. What I have noticed about my NP is that it now leaves a paper residue under my tongue which it did not do before. I can also drink a little coffee which I could not do when the medication was working more effectively (got jittery even with just a little bit).
Wes
I hope this does something to the bad endo doctor community. I am still suffering with hypothyroid issues with being on just T4. I can’t find a doctor, in Central NC (Durham/RTP) to give me the T3 I need.
Z.M.
Wow, doctors are really proud of destroying lives, huh? They seem to love it when patients are suffering and ill. Guess it makes them more money. I believe in science but have no faith in doctors. STTM helped me when doctors never could. Doctors told me for almost ten years that there was nothing they can do for my symptoms. I followed the STTM protocol and now I’m better! Amazing how dumb doctors are. It seems all they learn in medical school is how to rake in the $$$$$$$.
I firmly believe that this is also because women are the main sufferers of thyroid illness. Doctors are mainly men. By refusing to treat female patients, they’re able to stop women from advancing. It also means male thyroid patients suffer because they can’t get treatment. Just another example of the medical community listening to their prejudices instead of their patients. (John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight had a great segment on this issue for those who aren’t familiar with it.)
I’m glad we’re a bother to the ATA and endocrinologists (who are the worst ‘doctors’ I’ve ever met). They don’t believe in science. They only believe in lining their own pockets. Keep up the amazing work, Janie! We’re with you all the way.
Catherine
Agreed. Especially when they are a woman over 40 complaining. They view us as weak and easy to brush over. Even the female doctors! I had a female endocrinologist that was rude and abrupt and took no consideration for how I felt.
I had half of my thyroid out when 32 yrs old. I am now 46. At the time of removal I predicted that my symptoms would be dismissed as aging and my prediction is apparently correct based on the overwhelming amount of responses on Sttm concerning their doctors treatment of them.
One day the medical community will look back and see our current standard of treatment as barbaric. Eventually alternative medicine will merge more and more with traditional medicine and everything will change. Unfortunately, we are just victims of our time.
Susan Siens
I agree with everything you say, Z.M. Doctors AND nurse practitioners are grossly ignorant and have no interest in educating themselves beyond the textbooks they read in school and whatever the last drug salesman they saw had to say. I have come to the conclusion that the “medical profession” tends to attract people with serious mental and emotional problems who like having power over people.
Nancy Carter
Totally agree. When my husband goes along on visit to Dr, he is listened to MOREthan me, the patient suffering the symptoms. UNBELIEVABLE! Men are not advised antidepressants when hypo symptomatic.
K
Wish to god a class action suit could be brought forth
And legislation enacted to force them to abide by the hippocratic oath of “do no harm”
Susan Siens
Some form of mass protest, instead of our individual howls, would be most welcome. Frankly it appears that nothing gets through to doctors except a swift kick to the [you fill in the blank].
Rayann
Well the Physician Assistant I was seeing told me very sincerely that he lived by the motto “do no harm” it was very important to him. That’s why, he told me, even though I have just about every hypo symptom there is, he could not give me T3. I said, well I still have all these hypo symptoms and you know they’re hypo symptoms because you said they were so what are we going to do about that? He just shrugged….
Janie Bowthorpe
Wow. I have never heard of twisting the Do No Harm as a reason to withhold T3. But it makes sense if they think T3 is harmful..which is incredulous.
Susan Siens
So what do they do with people who make sufficient T3? Lower it so they can get sick as well? My husband is an RN and he completely believes that most doctors WANT people to be sick so they can make money. I have heard two RNs say they think doctors want patients to become diabetic (which I believe as it is fairly easy not to become diabetic if you know the first thing about nutrition). Stuff that up the hole in your face, Dr Phil.
Big B
Good luck with getting any legislator in the US to help unless you give them big money. None of them care about us.
Roxyann
I will sign it! I did learn thru my ordeal that biotin (vit B) skews thyroid & other lab tests. If you are doing lab tests research the articles on biotin because your doctors & endos WON’T TELL YOU! Then they play with your meds & order treatments you don’t need & will make you ill.. You may not agree with the FDA & ATA or Endo Soc but listen to what they say about biotin. It is true. When I finally got the lab test when I was off my supplements my lab tests came back normal. This is just an FYI.
Di
Australian nurse Sister Elizabeth Kenny went through this, fighting to get past the medical
community’s group think at the time. Her treatments worked! But they were not in the
official textbooks, so they would not even listen to her–even though her patients
were walking in front of their eyes!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Did I already approve this and this was a duplicate?
Di
AARGH!! Australian nurse, Sister Elizabeth Kenny, went through this–trying to get through to
the medical community, and counter their erroneous group think at the time. Her methods actually worked, but they were not
in the official textbooks, so she was laughed at.
Mary Renken
Somehow, I picture most of these annoying patients as women over forty. Not all, but most. When the Docs start with, well, you ARE getting older…
Jenny
Mary, I now am one of those women (over, in fact well over) forty – but when the doctor first told me when I asked for help for these symptoms ‘Well, you are getting older…’ I was twenty three. TWENTY THREE!!!!! And decades later am still suffering from these arrogant and stupid men (most of them are men) – and certainly three of those I encountered seem to have had sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies – those three seemed to get some sort of delight from actually LYING (pre internet when it was so much easier for them to get away with it as we couldn’t look anything up). One – the only one who took my temperature,three decades ago, told me that my body temperature of 35 degrees C was normal. Used to Fahrenheit, and being desperately hypo (as I now know, too late) I eventually queried his statement, and he said ‘normal for you’ – it should have been 37C or nearly five degrees Fahrenheit higher. And he got away with it. ‘First do no harm’ – my foot! For two decades until I got the internet I struggled to get through each day with a temp that rose to 35 but each afternoon dropped to 33 (in bed with six hot water bottles, unbearably cold), unable to work – yes, adrenals on top of hypothyroid and also Cell Danger Response, I know now, but my doctors (a different lot of sadists) ignored that.
Thank God for the internet – we must keep it free and fair!
James West
At Ann Arbor VA I find the medical students tend to parrot the lies verbatim that they hear so they’re able to give the “right answer.” Nevermind that discerning truth is discouraged almost with blunt force trauma. My primary care physician at Ann Arbor VA openly admits he knows “little” about thyroid care, but asserts that it is” simple as ABC”.
VA has gone to hell in a handbasket!
I’m not kidding.
James West
Russ
The find-a-good-doctor list seems outdated.
Can we start a thread about Doctors who are actually working with us?
If so, I’m near Orange County in Southern California and would appreciate the names and location of any good Doctors within 75 miles of me.
Thanks in advance!
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s continually added to, Russ. Others taken away when reports show the doctor isn’t good anymore.
sam
i cant find the list of drs anywhere can you haev a link rigth here thank you jamie
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s in this group: https://groups.io/g/sttmgroup
sam
thansk you jamie i thoguht it was a list of dr s adn locations that i remeebr seeing somehwere years ago am so tired cant figure it out but thank you !
Julie Cinquina
Tustin Longevity Center is great.
Russ
Thank you, Julie.
Patricia
Russ – Dr Lai at Renovi Medicine in Glendora, CA. You can also look for a functional doc closer to you on the International Functional Medicine website.
Russ
Thank you, Patricia.
Sheila
I’m on Orange County Ca. The doctor I use is one of the best. Regenerative Optimal Health functional Integrative Medicine. The best thing is finding this type of doctor who accepts insurance. She is in Huntington Beach Ca. Her name is Evelynne Llorente, MD…Board Certified Internal Medicine. She knows more about thyroid health than any endocrinologist I ever used. She also has a thyroid problem (Hashimoto) and will listen and get you optimal.
John Triggs Triggs
They keep prescribing drugs that have nothing to do with the management of our health. I took LevoThyroxine for 5 years. My GP kept prescribing the same thing but added Blood pressure, Cholesterol and anti depressant medication. When I asked for Whole Thyroid she refused. I changed GP’s and my health improved within 5 days. If I had relied on mainstream medicine I would be dead. John, Auckland New Zealand
Jill
Janie Bowthorpe, I just love and appreciate you and STTM sooooo much! Reading this made my day. Your writing gives me hope and energy. Also, this time your illustrations made me laugh out loud, as a release to decades of time-wasting, endless struggles with incompetent, moronic endocrinologists and know-it-all Drs. THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for this article and for ALL that you do!!!
STTM People: United, we will never be defeated! ✊🙌