Another nightmare for thyroid patients who depend on Natural Desiccated Thyroid.
If you are new to this subject, 2014 saw new batches of the Canadian Erfa Thyroid come out, along with patients worldwide reporting a return of hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way…sooner or later. It was eerily similar to what happened with Armour thyroid in 2009 after Forest Labs changed the way the pill was made.
This morning, I received a message from a thyroid patient who heard from Dr. Knafo, the Medical Director at Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. He stated to her:
We just received all the retesting on the product and everything looks fine on our end. Did you have a blood test done ?
In other words, when you look at his last question, the implication is the same that has been stated to others: that the symptoms which she has seen return on the new Erfa Thyroid are about HER, not about the pills.
But we also now have an official announcement from Dr. Knafo, and is exactly what I feared would be stated:
Dear All,
I wanted to thank all of you for your response and wanted to update you on the results we got from the retesting done by an independent lab. All the side effects reported were sent to Health Canada and all the retesting were done by a reputable independent lab.
We got about 70 patients reporting to us and there was 55 lack of efficacy reports. Half of the time we had the lot number and we could do an analysis of which lot were involved. There was NO relations between the batches involved and the side effects reported as many batches (50%) were trace back to our older production. Regardless, we decided to retest the batches that were involved (both from the older factory and new one) and sent everything to an independent lab.
There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other. We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique.
We have over 10,000 patients in Canada only and reports from Canadian patients were much less in numbers. We cannot explain why many of you are experiencing those symptoms however I think the right approach is to take every single case separately and understand if there is no other variables involved. The number of reports are however consistent with the increase of sale (we sold 3 times more Thyroid in the past year).
The test results are available in our office for anyone that wants to consult them.
I hope this update clarify a bit more the situation and action we put in place. Please feel free to contact me anytime. Regards,
Dr H. Knafo Medical Director ERFA Canada 2012 inc.
And I want to make my response to Dr. Knafo public here:
Dear Dr. Knafo,
Thank you for the kind way in which you expressed yourself concerning the testing of the “new” Erfa Thyroid by an Independent lab.
I want to underscore to you that the reason Erfa has seen a three-fold increase in its sales last year is because Erfa used to be a great product for all involved. Patients had found it to be as excellent as the “old” Armour used to be for decades, plus they have always loved that they can do Erfa Thyroid sublingually. Additionally, many patients in Europe have had access to Erfa, which was important when knowledge about Natural Desiccated Thyroid is so pitiful in Europe.
Understand that I have worked directly with patients for 12 years as an activist for better thyroid treatment. Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) changes lives and is proven over and over by worldwide patient experiences to be a much better hypothyroid treatment than T4-only. It even edges out the combination of T4 and T3 by its positive effects!
Granted, there are many patients who have reported not doing well on NDT over the past decade. But that wasn’t because NDT didn’t work. We figured out early on that there are two main reasons why NDT may not seem to work: a cortisol issue (low or high), and/or low iron. So patients learned that they must get the right testing for both of those, know how to read the results, and treat both before they will do well with NDT. You can read about all this here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
And of course, some reported NDT not working because they were being held hostage to the TSH lab test, which we as informed patients know is the WORST test to be dosed by. You will remain under-dosed if a doctor goes by the TSH range. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
So because of all the above, I had to discern if all these complaints about the “new” Erfa Thyroid were actually because of any of the above.
But Dr. Knafo, I quickly saw that no, the vast majority were not. The bulk of complaints…and bad experiences…have been coming from patients who were doing wonderfully on Erfa Thyroid for awhile, only to see their symptoms return exactly when they started using the pills that were now being made at a different facility.
You stated in your announcement: There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other. We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique. What is missing from that statement is that you have, in fact, stated to others than Erfa Thyroid did change the facility in which the pills are made. And as far as the “manufacturing technique”…patients clearly see a difference in the “new” batches. They are now slightly shinier, the indentations are deeper, and the new pills have a blotchy look that wasn’t there before.
The photo above shows the difference between the old and new.
Of course, we don’t know if what we are observing in the new pills explains anything. All patients DO know is that all-too-many of them are seeing their hypothyroidism return with the new Erfa Thyroid.
I think you are a sincere man, Dr. Knafo. We appreciate that about you. But…something has, in fact, changed in Erfa Thyroid. And to dismiss the growing overall body of patients worldwide who are not doing well anymore on Erfa thyroid is a bad move, just as it’s insensitive to state that that there are no other variables involved so thus, it must be about the individual circumstances.
P.S. Go back and read all the comments on the May 8th blog post linked above. It’s patently clear that the new Erfa Thyroid has changed, whether testing says otherwise.
UPDATE: thyroid patient S. compiled the following as of August 2015 and these represent expiration dates:
The good batches (no one reported them as bad, and one or more people reported them as good) are: 8/15 (reported by 3 people) and 4/17 (4 reports).
Some batches were reported as both good and bad by different people: 5/17, 7/17, 7/16, 2/17, 10/16, 3/15.
Some were reported only as bad: 11/15 (3 reports); 11/17 (1 report); 3/16 (3 reports); 8/17 (3 reports).
No reports for 1/17, 3/17 or 6/17 so these are unknown.
Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.
Jan 2024, Canada – been taking Erfa 30mg (3tabs/day) for a few years now .. I’ve been unsure for some time but now I believe something else has changed in these pills: I used to always dissolve them under my tongue; fast and efficient.
The last few prescriptions take forever to dissolve, but worse than that – I get the ‘stupid head’ feeling after taking them, and the feel and taste of the sugar/sweetener is gross.
Also, there are literally pieces of (thyroid!) once the tablet is finally dissolved. WTH?
Anyone else having this experience?
Is there any updated information about ERFA? I was on the old formulation of Armour and did amazing until the reformulation in 2009. I was hoping ERFA may be similar to the old Armour formulation.
Was the issues with ERFA just limited to certain batches?
Thank You!
i TOOK SYNTHROID FOR OVER 20 YEARS I HAD DIARRHEA EVERY DAY I HAVE BEEN ALLERGIC TO MILK ALL MY LIFE, WHEN I CPOMPLAINED ABOUT THE LACTOSE ALL I WAS EVER TOLD WAS TAKE METAMUCIL WHICSH MADE THINGS WORSE FOR ME. I DECIDED TO CHECK THE ABBOTT LABS SITE PAGE AFTER PAGE SAID NOTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DOCTORS PAGE AND THE INGREDIENT LIST SHOWED LACTOSE. I ASKED MY DOCTGOR IF HE KNEW THAT AND HE SAID NO, ERFA HAD JUST COME INTO OUR AREA AND SO AGAINST HIS WISHES HE PRESCRIBED THEM, EVERYTHING WAS GREAT AND THEN I GOT DIARRHEA AGAIN DR KNAFO WAS GONE AND THE NEW DIRECTOR WAS A WOMAN SHE TOLD ME ERFA ALWAYS HAD LACTOSE, I TOLD HER THAT WASN’T TRUE. ANYWAY THEY ARE OFF THE MARKET HERE IN WINNIPEG COSTCO WON’T CARRY THEM ANYMORE EVEN IF THEY COME BACK SO I TALKED MY NEW DOCTOR INTO HAVING THE DRUG STORE MAKE THEM FOR ME, SHE COMPLIED. I AM NOW INTO THE 8TH MONTH AND FEEL GREAT. THEY GOST $ 1.84 EACH BUT IT IS WELL WORHT IT, I DID NOT GO TO ANY GATHERINGS FOR 10 YEARS WORRYING ABOUT HAVING THE RUNS. NOW I AM FREE AND GO EVERYWHER UNAFRAID.
I took Armour Thyroid for many years until Forest Lab… (I believe) Changed the ingredients… NO MORE T3!! I Am suffering now from many conditions. I changed to ERFA Thyoid 10 years ago. Im MUCH worse. I rrecently changed to Thyrovanz.. Hoping this will be my magic fix !
Hi Mary. Armour still has T3. The key to making most NDT’s work is being OPTIMAL, not just “in range”. We also need to have optimal iron and optimal cortisol to successfully raise NDT to find our optimal dose. It’s all explained here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
I started taking Armour in 2010 I lost weight, felt so much better I bought it directly from my Naturopath. Then when the Naturopaths were able to write prescriptions I was put on Efra it was ok in the beginning. But I have regained all my weight back, I feel slow & depressed. I totally believe that they changed the formula.
So what do we Canadians use if we have to use something?
Can we get NP Thyroid from the USA?
Dean, I’m just wondering where you get the large bottles of ERFA, if you don’t mind saying. I’m in Canada, too. Thank you. I’m also in the FB FTPO Canada group.
Hi Dee, I send my prescriptions to Haber’s compounding pharmacy in Toronto, cause it used to be much cheaper than in Quebec but now the prices seem to be the same in every province. But i think every pharmacy can order a years supply with a doctors script. It would cost me 150$ shipped to my house for 1 year 750 2 grains tabs, now its close to 500$.
If you know of another place to order that cheaper pls post it.
Thank you,
Dean
Thanks for the information Dean. I’m really not sure of prices elsewhere because I haven’t been on any thyroid hormones for over a year now. I’m doing this unmedicated for the time being, and it ain’t pretty. 😉 I’m also in the FB FTPO group, but haven’t checked it in quite awhile.
Hi everyone, I’ve been on Erfa Thyroid for 13-14 years, my dose has stabilized at 4-4.5 grs I take it all in the morning between 7-9:30 am, I break it up and let it melt under my tongue in small pieces.
I have’nt noticed any change in its effectiveness and I order it for the year in one big bottle always. I have gone through the different formulations of it and I don’t seem to be affected in a negative way by it.
Only thing i did’nt like was the price shooting up 300%.
I live in Mtl,Qc, and over here its extremely hard to find a doctor to dose you properly they all go by the tsh test which doesnt work for me cause I’m at 0.02 tsh.
My question is where can I get other types of desiccated thyroid hormone if Erfa becomes much harder to find?
And does anyone here have any good doctors to recommend in the greater Montreal area that prescribe Thyroid?
Hope everyone here health as I know this disease is hard to get a handle on.
I have Hashis, I am 55 years old, and feel good considering.
Thank you,
Dean
Hi Dean. If no one responds here, I would recommend joining the Facebook FTPO Canada group. Everyone there is in Canada and could provide the best info. Note that the admins have to see either your wall posts or friends list on your facebook page to know you aren’t a spammer. Once you are approved, you can close all that back up if that’s desired.
Hi there, I can’t seem to find the Canadian thyroid group on Facebook – does it still exist? I am taking ndt and getting it at a Rexall …. my MD is old and on my recommendation is letting me try it,..,, but he prescribes a small dose once a day. I am not thinking it’s optimal at all….. and looking for more info. thanks
There are non-connected Canadian groups out there, though who knows how accurate they are. So no matter what you join, just check with STTM to make sure you get the right info or the STTM Facebook page. No, small doses don’t work. Study this page and see if you can teach your doctor…they are still way behind our knowledge: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
May I ask which doctor in Montreal prescribes Erfa? I am currently with a doctor who is insisting on me taking synthetic T3/T4, I’ve been on it for 8 months and it’s just not working. When I lived in the USA, I used to take NP Thyroid and loved it and I am thinking Erfa might be the equivalent? Thank you so much!
hi, I was on Erfa’s ND for years. I finally lost weight, everything was going back to normal. I was happy. Then they absolutely changed their formula 2 years ago, and I was vomiting and sick 24/7. Between new and old batches, taste, smell and look were changed. My old pills tasted of dry liver. The new pills were sweet and left bad aftertaste in mouth. I complained to health Canada. I have been on a rollercoaster. Now stuck on Synthroid, I have no energy gained lots of weight, and feel sick all the time. I feel like time us just wasting away.
I am in Quebec, and I must go back to ND and was looking into thyroid S. My Dr. at the Jewish General, supports me and is amazing. He is not opposed to nd and has worked with me. I mentioned going on thyroid S and the only thing he said is, are u sure u want to start all over? I said yes. I know nd is better for me. Get a referral to Dr. Trifiro in Endocrinology. He is so nice.
I see him next month, and hopefully I can get off synthroid.
Hi Dean,I’m jumping in here a year later…. wonder if people are still having problems with ERFAetc. I discovered WP THyroid last year , after 15 years on Synthroid/SRT3, and I felt like I had my life back. Then, there was a shortage, August 2018, the company stopped making if for a while, then moved their facilities to Costa Rica I believe and the new batches are aweful. On their other product, Nature Thyroid I started huffing and puffing despite being in really good shape. It got so that climbing my house stairs to our second floor made me short of breath. The day I stopped it, i returned to normal. When WP was availble again, I was so happy, only to discover that I got very short of breath again on WP. Now I found a doctor in Kirkland, QC in the ACCESS med clinic and he doesn’t go by TSH (not many doctors in Quebec know what they are doing with thyroid). I got his name from the compounding pharmacy Pearson &Cohen in Westmount. They deliver/send all over. I am starting ERFA this morning, with a lot of reservation, after reading all these comments. Wondering if anyone has found the batches have improved over the last year.
Hi
I had my ERFA RX renewed in January of 2019, and have experienced many health problems since then. I have been on 1.5 grains (90mg) for the past 10 years, and did not have the problems I have now-high blood pressure, chest pains, exhaustion. Ended up in the emerg last month with what was diagnosed as thyroid storm,but I believe the emerg dr. did not understand that my levels were OK:TSH under .5, high free T3, with T4 in the lower range. They had me discontinue my NDT for 3 days, and then take half of my normal dose. Have yet to see an Endocrinologist, and my dr. Does not want to do anything. I have a bottle of older NDT that I am going to use to try to increase back to 1.5 grains to try and determine if there was indeed a change to the ERFA formulation. If I start to feel better again on the old meds, I will need to look for another supplier.
There have been reports over the last 3 years or so about Erfa having changed. But you also seem to have a cortisol problem now causing the free T3 to go high like that and due to being underdosed for so long. It just finally hit you. 90mg is hardly ever optimal. Thus the adrenals become stressed over time.
We are so limited for choices here in Canada, but some of my friends and family here are just getting the Thailand stuff of a Facebook page and are quite happy with it….and apparently the delivery is fairly quick…so I’d say that is the best route….and I still maintain that Erfa changed the ingredients the day they purchased the company…
I used synthroid for more than 20 years, but started feeling terrible again more frequently even with normal blood results. Then I found out that I have Hashmoto and low vitamin D so two days ago I started taking 50,000 of vitamind D and switched from Synthroid (125 mcg) to ERFA (2 pills of 60mg). No idea yet if it will work but I am scared about the lack of consistency of the ERFA and my lack of options as I live in Canada. Any recent news or feedback on that?
What I notice is that there are “less” comments about Erfa not doing as well. But can’t say that’s due to it being better, or people lowering their expectations, or people raising it higher than they did before. We do still get a few bad comments about it.
I agree, I moved on and I am sure everyone else who was ill from new formulations had to move on, so the lack of comments might be due to people changing scripts.
Hi, Elina. Don’t know if this suggestion might be helpful or not but I have a Canadian friend who has to get her thyroid NDT compounded instead of taking Erfa. It has been a while since we discussed it but I think she was allergic to something in Erfa or has a bad reaction to it? And this reaction was happening a long time before Erfa switched mfg facilities.
I’ve been using ERFA bought from Inhouse Pharmacy shipped to the UK because I dont need a script (cant get one anyway) and have been mostly doing far better than any of the other meds available without a script…just checking my last order details on the website and notice all strengths are now discontinued. As there was some mention earlier of there being a potential shortage of porcine thyroid, I wonder if anyone knows anything more about this atall. I realise there has been quite a bit of controversy surrounding this brand in recent years and wonder if they are reformulating finally, or if it has been permanently withdrawn…I will be seriously in trouble if I cant get any once my current supply runs out…all other brands made me ill.
We are not seeing other brands have shortages, so I doubt it. Erfa is being secretive as to what might be going on. Since you react to all other brands, I would sure find out if cortisol or iron are problematic and you don’t realize it…
I order Erfa from UDS in Canada (having problems too, BTW, like I had after Amour changed their formulation), and the last order a month ago was triple in price. Did some research, found that there has been an ongoing catastrophic (more or less) virus killing piglets in the U.S. No one has much of a handle on it yet, and as it has continued, porcine thyroid has become less available. Hence the sudden rise in price.
Hi Janie, Erfa told me over the phone that they had a shortage. They said this was the reason for inflating the price. They said they now were supplying the USA, and some European countries, and had a shortage of porcine to supply everyone. They were very strange with me over the phone because I reported them to Health Canada. They definitely have lied to me numerous times, so they are hiding something and there were changes in their stories. I know that supplying outside of Canada may not be legal- and shortcuts were possibly taken to meet demands. I am surprised with Health Canada. They did not get back to me. I will touch base with them again. It’s possible they were fined and everything was made to be swept under the rug.
Erfa Thyroid, under the umbrella name Forest Pharmaceuticals Canada. which at one point you were re-directed to Allergan’s site on the internet.
Yep, Allergan who is response for the manufacture of Thyroid and who exercised a 300% price hike, continues to have shortages as we are seeing right now!
Thyroid, a drug once covered by OHIP and then de-listed because the price hike could not be justified!
If you do your own sleuthing, you would see how crooked Allergan is.
Jara-Lynn, can you provide proof that Erfa was or is under Forest? It doesn’t sound right other than an opinion. We want to stick with facts here. So proof would help.
Have you ever seen people who have a suppressed TSH, FT3 exactly at the upper limit of the range, but the FT4 a little below the limits of the range with ERFA and no problem with RT3? I have been using ERFA for 2 years and my FT4 does not go up, while my FT3 is still on the top of the range. All my iron tests (4 tests) are optimal according to your book and the saliva tests for cortisol are also optimal? I am in Canada, so I have no choice but ERFA. I feel a little better than with Synthroid, but I never lost weight with ERFA.
I do the same thing…tsh is suppressed but free t3 is always in the middle and free t4 is on the low end of the ref range. I have never had my rt3 checked but i will ask next time. I have non classic congenital adrenal hyperplasia and do not make much cortisol, i make more androgens instead (high testosterone levels). Could that be my problem too? I am on 4 grains of erfa a day. TIA
Jenn
Your frees sound more like you need a raise, but we learned how important it is to check RT3 before doing so, as a high RT3 can mess up the frees, too.
thanks! i will have him check that before doing anything! I am 46 with some hormonal issues too (hot flashes, weight gain,etc)…i just want to feel halfway good again 🙁
No I want to feel 100% good again!!
Ok Janie. I will look into this. I ordered a cortisol saliva test. Two things have happened to me lately. I wonder if they are exacerbating thyroid problems. I am wearing braces to correct a bite – a long story but I have very bad jaw joints – deformed actually some of the problem stemmed from a bite imbalance. Wearing braces causes a lot of strain on my head with headaches and neck aches and seems to even cause imbalances in the muscles of the body. 2) I was exposed to mold and had to move because of it. It was a very difficult experience in which I became very sensitive to mold. Even after I moved some of my things have mold dust in them. My chest is much improved and I use ionizing air purifiers. Would those life events somehow cause the situation I\’m in now?
New-found info. based on my symptoms. Background: Switched to Naturethroid from ERFA few weeks ago because I thought something was off with ERFA. After 2 weeks I know it\\\\\’s my body reacting differently than it ever had before. I read about people becoming reactive to T4. I\\\\\’ve only ever taken NDT (never synthetic T4) but I think it\\\\\’s possible it\\\\\’s not working for me too well anymore because of the T4. I just got some blood work done but haven\\\\\’t got the results back yet. MD ordered reverse T3. I am going to go to a different MD through. I found him through T3 only yahoo group – Dr. Michael Morris.He doesn\\\\\’t live too far from me. I hope he\\\\\’s ok. I also bought a book about T3 by Paul Robinson – what a pain he takes it exactly same time – 4X a day.
So I don\\\\\’t think ERFA is a problem. It\\\\\’s a change in me and I have to figure it out. Have been having hypo symptoms on ERFA and still having them currently on Naturethroid – constipation, low energy, depression, temp. that at its highest won\\\\\’t go above 98. I\\\’m not sure about the T4 problem but could be. Sucks.
Ellen, it’s not about becoming reactive to T4. It’s that you may now have either low iron or a cortisol problem, for one. Either can cause T4 to start converting to more and more RT3. And the reason you may not have done well on the switch from Erfa to Naturethroid is because Erfa became less effective, yes, but the same amount of Naturethroid could have been too strong, and could be revealing issues with iron or cortisol. Start here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol
Hi, ya, I’m happy with them. They are an old Vancouver compounding pharmacy and Dr. Thorpe is the one to talk to….very knowledgeable…..so you might want to phone him with questions. It’s easy, once set up, I just phone for a refill and it’s mailed promptly.
Good Luck,
Nohan
PS I maintain that when Erfa first purchased the company from Parke Davis or whoever, the quality was lost….as I was on the original stuff and never had a problem….they are untrustworthy in my opinion
Thanks so much Noahn. I thrived on erfa when I first started it just like when i first started armour prior to 2009. I am in the US so I hope that won’t make a difference.
Jenn
Dear Janie, Nohan, and Jenn…. what have you switched to then since the original armour thyroid and original erfa have been both reformulated? I am trying to find a good substitute myself… thanks for your ideas and insight! I have had a total thyroidectomy so supplementation to me is super critical, and I have been suffering with hypo and hyper symptoms both over the last year or two when it became unavailable and on a shortage. They too denied to me there was any change and I order it from NorthwestPharmacy.com in Canada. I know better, I’ve been on thyroid meds since my early 30’s and I am now age 54. I started with synthroid, then armour thyroid, lastly erfa thyroid. As a last resort the last month or so I have been taking my thyroid sublingually…. I take it in 3 divided doses throughout the day, a total of 5-6 grains.
Hi,
I’m using compounded thyroid from New Zealand sold through Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver. I get 120 – 60’s for about 100.00 plus 6.00 shipping. They say that they ship all over the world.
I am in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows if there is still only Erfa’s thyroid available to us? I was sure I read on a message board somewhere of another dessicated thyroid prescription product. If anyone knows the name, please share.
With all that is happening and now a triple in price of Erfa, can we not lobby to allow other brands into our country and why has there been an incredible increase that is going to prevent those on limited incomes from buying it? How can they get away with this?
Just figured out that currently on ERFA I have symptoms of hypo. I’ve been taking ERFA 3 1/2 gr. for a good 6-8 months. I’m going to switch at this point – go to the MD and take the one he sells which is either Naturethroid or Westthroid. I never know if it just me and body stresses or if it’s the ERFA underperforming but I’m suspicious. Been more angry, moody and just took my temp and it’s too low. Drats.
I don’t blame you for changing brands. There have just been too many reported problems with Erfa not to suspect it. I would personally also make sure iron is where it should be….too….just in case.
First day on Naturethroid yesterday. Felt so much better – MD told me to just switch and take same amount as what I was taking. But I was having symptoms of hypothyroid on ERFA even though having gone to 4 gr. I don’t actually know what my true dosage is. I was buzzed last night like coffee and could not sleep half the night. This am – tired. I took 1 1/2 gr. and will try going down to 3 gr. instead of 3 1/2 and make sure to take 2nd dose not too late – I usually like 1:30pm. OR SHOULD I START OVER? I’ve been on ERFA for years.
I spoke to a pharmacist last week who said there is another porcine thyroid shortage and that’s why it’s so hard to get and the prices are so high as a result. Maybe that’s why they can’t order the larger sizes of new ERFA right now. Another pharmacist I spoke to said that some of the thyroid hormone producers were shut down because of low quality product. Not sure if this was just producers in the US or in other thyroid-hormone-producing countries as well – and this is just what I heard so I can’t verify this – and maybe I shouldn’t pass that along… BUT, from personal experience, since old ERFA has stopped being produced, I haven’t been able to find an alternative ndt that agrees with me.
Same here Dee… Something has changed for sure. I have tried them all and hypo symptoms returned. I would alternate as I tried each new NDT. Each time I tried a new brand and got sick I’d go back to taking my “old” erfa tabs and instantly symptoms would subside. My Doctor noticed the problem as well. Now all my “old” erfa is gone and the new “ERFA” is crap and I am stuck taking Nature-throid which was the least offensive but still just does not compare to “old” erfa. No one I personally know seems to be feeling like they used to before all these changes started taking place. My doctor told me all her patients including herself are feeling it and she doesn’t have the answer…
Pat, I used to be on the old Erfa, and am still doing just as well on NP Thyroid. Make sure you are optimal on Naturethroid, which may be a different amount than when you were on the old Erfa.
My pharmacy can still order Thyroid ! It’s just that erfa doesn’t sell the big size anymore. I think pharmacies had the choice before between the 100 and 500 sizes (not sure for the quantities)
So nothing change for us 🙂
Just phoned my pharmacy today and they told me they can no longer order Erfa Thyroid… so they are still working on reforming it. Other than Thailand sourced NDT what are our options? Seems sketchy considering we don’t know all the ingredients with some of them and with others they have aluminum. Nutri-Meds looks good but my brother thinks ordering anything online won’t make it across the border anyway. A compounding pharmacy would be a last resort for me because I don’t look forward to convincing my DR I need it.
But have any Canadians reported success gettin Nutri-Med or Thyrogold across the border? Would also be great if anyone can give me reliable sources for purchasing the Thailand brands (for back up).
Well that’s interesting that your pharmacy can no longer get ERFA. Is it your understanding that ERFA may be having problems selling their newly formulated Thyroid and that they may be going back to the old formula?
Also about Nutri-meds and Thyrogold, I’m in Canada and have had no issues getting either one shipped to me. I do have issues with the extra ingredients in ThyroGold, though, but I may be one of the few. I have some older stock Nutri-meds from when they were selling porcine from New Zealand, but they can no longer get the porcine or the bovine from their old supplier, so they have switched to a bovine formula with added ingredients. Plus, most people find Nutri-meds isn’t very strong.
About Thai NDT: there is a fairly new drug simply called TR by TMan Pharma (first reports about it are from late 2015). It has a thin sugar coating which is said to make the pill dissolve in the lower intestine rather than in the stomach, meaning more thyroid hormone will potentially be absorbed by the body as it’s not destroyed by stomach acid…this sounds almost too good to be true. I’d be interested to know if anyone has tried this brand and what your impression is? Also, which brand is the best as far as the other two are concerned: Thyroid-S or Thiroyd? Both have been getting great reviews online for years, but I am not sure about all the fillers and binders in Thyroid-S…I’m especially worried about aluminium and its long-term use (as this is going to be a life-long treatment in my case). On the other hand, it’s said to contain a slow-release agent making it last longer in the body…any input welcome as I have decided not to go down the Erfa road.
I’d also be interested in other people’s opinion as I am currently hesitating between the three brands of NDT. They’ve all got great reviews, although TR not so many (yet) as it has not been available that long…like others, I am not too crazy about the aluminium and other fillers in Thyroid-S but, having said that, it does seem to work great. I have hardly found any negative reviews online, although it has been around since Armour was reformulated eight or nine years ago, which means it must work despite all the fillers…if anyone could tell me which brand works best for you, I’d really appreciate it. Even if Thai NDT is only a fraction of the cost of prescription NDT, I’d still prefer to order a brand many people can vouch for.
I am wondering where things stand with ERFA now, from reports. I remember the Armour disaster, and it was this site that allowed me to tell my doctor and pharmacists what was going on! How crazy is that. The ones that are “supposed to know” had no clue. Glad I am my own advocate, but that was ridiculous.
So, I’ve been on ERFA since the Armour switch, and I really liked it. I was just going to refill my Rx for ERFA through Universal Drugstore (Canada), but for some reason, I decided to do a little research on other options. Then I read the reports here about ERFA changing. Well, I think I was probably affected but didn’t realize what it was. I, too, had to increase my dose and had terrible problems that I attributed to other factors…which they might have been due to, but now I wonder.
I’ve had various bottles of ERFA at different doses, so I went and checked a bottle of 60’s and a bottle of 30’s that I got filled 12/08/2015 but had not opened. Both filled by the same pharmacy, Altec Drug Services, Winnipeg, MB (3 year old pharmacy, I see online), same fill date, etc. However, the 30’s look like the old type, and the 60’s look more mottled and a little darker in color. I had been taking another batch of 60’s from 4-2015 fill date, and they, too, look the new type.
One thing I am also curious about — My bottles look nothing like the white ones with colored labels that I saw in the linked post. Mine are just brown Rx bottles with the Altec Drug label, stating the medication as “Thyroid (60mg)” and elsewhere on the bottle it has “ERF”. No expiration dates, as everyone is talking about. DIN: 00023949 on the 30mg. DIN: 00023957 on the 60mg. Does anything seem off-base that I described?
Now that I know about the ERFA change or problems, I’m wondering if I might want to switch, but I’d like to hear the update on what’s been going on lately. And if there is a “most-preferred” brand right now, I’d love ot hear that, too. Thanks for all that you do in keeping us informed!
Hello Linda,
I can maybe help you on 2 points.
First for the brown bottles it’s normal. Pharmacies often use their own Rx bottles instead of the official ones. No idea why. Maybe because they’re proud of their colors 😉 . Anyway don’t worry about it I receive my ERFA in that kind of bottles for years.
And concerning the “old pills” “new pills” thing, honestly I’ve noticed the difference only in the aspect. I’m responding well on Erfa since 2007 now. I have to increase my dosage every 2 years or so when I feel more hypo but I think it’s part of the hypothyroidism problem. My doctor is well informed about NDT and he changes my prescription when I need it.
Honestly if you feel good on Erfa I don’t know if you should switch… You would have to restart your treatment from the ground and it’s difficult for the body to adapt. A friend did that once and it had been very hard for her.
I hope it answered your questions a bit.
I both called and emailed Erfa about the price rise. I asked if the factory in Spain raised the price or made some changes. They said that the raw material provider from US has increased the price so much and they’re looking for another source and that there was no change in Spain, either to the product or the price.
I’ve been getting Erfa from Pharmaprix on Pierrefond boulevard, just West of St. Jean’s boulevard in West Island, Quebec. I got a bottle of 60’s (they didn’t have any 125mg’s) Oct. ’16, Exp. 11/2018 LF06221A. This week I got a bottle of 125mg expiry date: 07/2017 Lot 14G021. I don’t know why they gave me such a early expiry date this time. Maybe they’re off loading older stuff. So, that’s all I know.
I order ERFA Thyroid from cananadian pharmacy which gets it from Accuscreen pharmacy. They don’t have stock beyond the batch that is 4/2017. If anyone has an Erfa Thyroid batch that is a good batch with a later expiration date (in 2018), please provide pharmacy details and say if they ship to USA. Thanks.
I would pay $300 if ERFA would go back to the way it was before this disaster. Having said that, the price increase is wrong. I think once ERFA realized it had such a big market beyond Canada, everything went for crap.
I have been violently ill for the last 5 days and low and behold for the 3rd time this year, it is because of a bad batch of ERFA NDT.
Here is the lot number: LF06222A EXP. 11/2018
Symptoms are: vomiting with some blood, extreme nausea that will not cease, confusion, palpitations, sweats, lack of appetite, head pains, side left pains, ringing of ears on and off, unable to stay awake and alert for more than eight hours per day.
I was given an expiraton of 05/2019, and if this fails me, I have no medication I can take left. I am seeking an alternative. I also need to know what damage was done to my body. I have written to Erfa and the Health Board of Canada. I discovered a weakness on part of Erfa that can force disclosure of new formulation, and investigation of the drug. We have to live in hopes, that this will prompt someone to take action and give us back the original formula and stop making us sick.
NOTE: the bad medication tastes of sugar at first then goes metallic and leaves dry mouth or it tastes of pure chemicals. The old medication tasted almost like liver. The old had a solid color and new has prominent speckles in it.
Rose, did you ever hear back from ERFA or Health Canada regarding investigating ERFA? I had similar bad reactions to new ERFA. I’m also taking nothing (no ndt) right now, and worried about the consequences of that, and I too live in hope that ERFA will go back to the way it was.
I pray that we get answers!!!
My tsh is 0.006 but my free t3 and free t4 are mid range. My integrative dr now wants to take me down to 2.5-3 grains from 4…not happening and I am so disappointed!! I know when I am over medicated and right now I surely am not!!
Jenn
That is a definite thing we learned years ago…that we canNOT be dosed by the TSH. It’s normal for it go quite low while on NDT. Sorry you have to find out that your doctor is so backwards and brainwashed by his medical school training….:(
Thanks! I know that myself and I thought HE knew that too because he had seen my last tsh of .007 and said that he went by symptoms! My temp was up so he must think that I am getting too much but I was actually getting sick. I am going to call and discuss all of this and point out that my free t’s were fine…..plus my weight is up so i am not over dosed.
Jenn
I find it interesting that since Oct 19th there are no comments on this page so hope that this gets published not that it makes a difference to what has happened in the past as my story is the same as those deeply affected by Erfa’s Thyroid.
Since switching to another brand from Erfa, I am feeling so much better and if I can help it will not ever use Erfa’s thyroid again. My life as everyone elses here is too precious.
Wishing everyone all the best.
I was very disappointed with this brand. The product is very unstable from batch to batch.
It was impossible for me to get a normal life with this product, as everytime the batch changes it is a whole readjustment to make with hypo/hyper bad weeks. And finally my last batch from this brand, which was terribly weak, leads me to switch medication brand.
I have just been prescribed Erfa lot ” LF05829A expiry: 10/18. This is my first attempt at taking NDT after 8 years on synthroid and wondering if there are still problems with Erfa?
Yes, there do appear to be some continued problems for some people, such as doing fine on one batch, not on the next. And Erfa continues to deny they have changed anything, even though we clearly know they have.
Hi Janie,
So I’m confused by what folks are writing about Kripps as if it was a dessicated thyroid and not a pharmacy. I would love to know what they are taking if it works as I’m in Canada and they ship across Canada. Nohan, I would love to have you clarify for me please what you are taking.
thank you
Has anyone had any issues ordering Thyroid-S. I placed an order tried tracing it to see when it might deliver and I couldn’t. I emailed the company repeatedly and get no reply.
Further to my hypo symptoms returning on Erfa, extremely dry skin, low grade depression, severe water retention, heart palpitations, lack of focus and concentration, easily overwhelmed. Ain’t life a barrel of monkeys sometimes!
Erfa should be held accountable.
To the lady who lives in Canada and had a prescription filled in the U.S. and she drove across the border to get it, is there any legal issues with that. I am meeting my doctor Monday to see if he will do that but think he won’t. I also would be sending my husband to get it as I don’t currently have a passport and so does he just pretend like it is his, which he can’t because it will have my name on it and so are we legally able to bring it back across the border?
Hi Sandra,
I live in a Canadian border town and all I had to do was ask my Dr for a copy of my prescriptions and I just keep it in my purse with my passport and show them when I come back to Canada with something.
Yes, Kripps is an independant pharmacy that has been around a very long time and is well known in Vancouver for their natural/conventional products.
Kripps Pharmacy
Address: 5413 West Blvd, Vancouver, BC V6M 3W5
(604) 687-2564
I am taking compounded descciated thyroid sourced from New Zealand. I have a good Dr so he faxed a prescription to Kripps for it and I just phone them for a refill and it arrives within the week…and I am very happy with it.
It’s been a while since I posted, I had been on Erfa’s Thyroid for years and like everyone else no issues until they made some sort of change. I had been getting good and bad batches and bad batches meant that things went hill again so that each day is a struggle to get by. Good batches meant that I was feeling on top of the world, bring anything on I can handle it. I work full time in the interior design field with stressful deadlines and when an Erfa batch is bad then my life becomes a nightmare of worry that my productivity and creativity, will suffer and affect my job.
I recently had a good batch that I was so lucky to have been able to buy 3 months worth out of my own pocket instead of insurance coverage and it was a good batch. My old batch symptoms felt long far gone and I revelled in my new happy life but when they ran out, the new batch that I started a month a go took me down again.
The main symptoms that arise on bad batches for me is low energy, my daily 45 minute walk with good energy on bad batches become a serious struggle and I get what I call achy lungs and easily winded, no stamina to even walk a slight upgrade. My digestion becomes awful and food sensitivities increase dramatically. I want to become a hermit and have nothing to give to anyone outside of my day of work.
I have given up on Erfa and don’t know what the next step is as calling around to different pharmacy’s trying different batches out of my own expense is becoming as I have done in the past while maybe necessary is so very frustrating and costly.
I have ready this forum back into June and don’t know what folks are talking about with Dr. Kripps if anyone can clarify for me.
thank you
Hi Nohan,
Thank you for your reply!
Well that sounds quite simple then, so your doctor calls in the prescription and you take the copy with you so that if customs asks you have a prescription, sounds perfect. I would cross at Niagara Falls Ontario border and was wondering what pharmacy you used successfully.
Of course it sounds like the easiest is the Kripps pharmacy but of course it will be quite a bit more expensive compared to Erfa?
Hi Sandra,
I asked my Dr to write a 4 – 60mcg prescription a day, but I am only taking 3, so 120 – 60mcg.costs me about 110.00 which includes shipping, but even being a pensioner, it’s worth it.
Hopefully your Border Guards are as nice as ours…I only use it for progesterone and peregnenolone, but I think you can just phone the border and find out the thyroid….
I phoned a few compounding pharmacies and they said they were using Erfa, so I got PO’d and never pursued it,but for awhile, I got some thyroid out of Mexico which I used until I couldn’t get anymore and then I used “T3 Only” until I heard about Kripps.
On the old thyroid (pre-Erfa) I was taking 180 mcg a day and am using the same dose of Kripps and feeling good.
For years, I have also been taking Pregnenolone and Pro-Gest E which I believe handles the stress issues.
Dr. Thorpe said that the resting pule should be < 85 and the temperature should be around 37 C around 98 F.
I guess I'm of the mind that dessicated thyroid has worked successfully for over a hundred years and didn't need re-inventing, and Kripps fills that space, but the first month I was definitely in the "unknown".
Also, IF….Efra removed some golden ingrediant from their product, which is now supplied in Kripps, I think it would be subject to the bioaccumlative effect and needs some time.
When I first went to the old Dr years ago, I had a myriad of problems and just wanted to sleep. One of the last things I said to him was "Are you telling me that this pill is going to fix all these problems?" and he said "Yes, you're going to feel a lot better in a month and you'll be back to your old self shortly after"….and he was right, but it took some time.
Thanks, Nohan. I’ll keep working with the Kripps dose. I have never tried prenenolone. However, have next to no estradiol without supplementing, so progesterone is out.
Hi Nohan: After experimenting with the Kripps dessicated, I found my particular batch very weak. Almost immediately body temps went down to below 97, weight gain/fluid retention, constipation…the usual suspects. I upped the dose from my usual 1 and 3/4 – 1 and 7/8 grain to 2 and even 2 plus and it was as if I wasn’t absorbing it at all, or at least not very well. Currently have what feels like a “good” batch of N-T and am doing reasonably well on that….
No matter what amount you are on, do labs after being on an amount for at least 4 weeks! You need a free T3 towards the tip top of the range and a free T4 mid-range. When you’re not there, and a particular batch might be slightly off, you’ll feel it much worse.
Hi Angie,
I was on T3 too, but did not continue with them when I started Kripps. The old Dr said that natural drugs are bioaccumlative and take time to do their thing, unlike a chemical drug which is instant, so I kinda gave myself a month “to get it right”…..but honestly, the first week or so I was uncertain as to where my dose was to end up, but at least I knew I was getting a “complete” natural thyroid replacement.
180 seems to do the trick, but it’s getting colder here, so I may increase it over the winter…
Also in the early days, I was taking my temperature and my resting pulse a couple of time a day as Dr Thorpe from Kripps recommended.
Wow, Nohan…I felt the Kripps SRT3 right away and discontinued it. Am now just taking the compounded dessicated.Am watching my temps (which are a little higher right now, around 99.2 yesterday afternoon) and resting pulse (which is about the same for me and my usual, 66-72), I may have a “bug” as I’m achy, coughing, and sneezing, so temps may be more of a reflection of that that anything else is going on. I keep asking the question, maybe not in the right way, but how did you find the Kripps compared to other dessicateds…was it stronger, weaker, about the same? Did you have to take more, less, etc.? Thanks for your input and help!
On my Kripps meds for the 2nd day…still a little early to tell how well this will work for me, but will sure to report back. I am also very interested in hearing from people that have continued on with ERFA, as to whether (now that ERFA is a little further along in the manufacturing process) they have seen the medicine normalize back to what we were accustomed. Any reports?
You’ll probably need to use the search function to see if anyone else typed in those numbers here, ok? Otherwise, it’s just a matter of trying it out. 🙂 Info here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Just got my Kripps dessicated and SRT3 in the mail today. Will let y’all know how I do on it. It took a while to get the ‘script filled. I did have to call and follow up on an already submitted written order before Kripps got around to filling it. Once they did, however, it came within a week from Vancouver to Virginia.
Hi, good for you!!!
Years ago, I took Canada’s dessicated thyroid when it was “good”, as did a few of my friends and family, but when ERFA bought the company, it no longer worked well for any of us which was known in the first month. In fact, at that time I emailed them and specifically asked if they had changed the formula….and they said that they hadn’t…which was a blatant lie, because it was affecting all 6 of us.
I know that a lot of people from the US were using it when there was an Armour shortage and were pleased with it, BUT a lot of Canadians who were used to the original thyroid, weren’t and it was just a matter of time before others started complaining.
What I find strange is the timing around the sale to Erfa and the formula change in Armour around the same time resulted in so many complaints.
I LOVE Kripps! I played around on it for the first month and then ended up on 180 a day which works well for me and in my opinion is equal to Canada’s original thyroid.
Thanks, Nohan. I have just been on the Kripps dessicated all by itself (no SR T3) for a few days. I am finding that it is not quite as strong as the ERFA or the Nature-throid. I have taken 1 and 3/4 grains daily (sometimes 2 grains in winter/cold months) for years now. How did you find the dose of Kripps compared?
Reagan
I have GOT to find something else besides Armour. I had to up my dosage already, and was feeling great. Then with my last refill, I have all my symptoms back! This is ridiculous!!! And it is SO expensive!!
I’d like to try Erfa, but I’m scared I’ll be in the same boat as I am with Armour. Anyone out there using current bottles and it working fine for them?
You are finding out what a lot of folks have on Armour since Activas bought out Forest. Something went wrong with Armour. As far as Erfa, some are still having problems with it, while others are not. It’s a dice game. I use NP Thyroid VERY successfully. Others use WP or Naturethroid with success, too. Go here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment
I’m wondering if you can do NP Thyroid sublingually? I’m not crazy about the ingredient, mineral oil, but I’m weighing my options about what to try if I finally attempt to find a source of (gluten-free) ndt outside of Canada. Thank you.
Thanks for responding so quickly Janie. Good to know that it can be taken sublingually.
Linda Osmond
Janie, I have 2 questions for you, if you don’t mind answering. Have you (or anyone) contacted the NP Thyroid manufacturer to ask what grade of mineral oil is in their product or to discuss the concerns about contamination? I would guess food-grade, but some of the concerns online about mineral oil are about possible carcinogenic contaminants. I’d like to consider switching to NP Thyroid, as ERFA just came back in stock (30mg only, so far), and it is way more expensive again! Another price increase. I would love to learn anything more about NP and the mineral oil issue.
My second question is this: When you switched from ERFA to NP Thryoid, did you find it a pretty comparable dose going from one to the other? Thank you so much for any input!
Thank you, Janie! Very helpful. I did send a list of specific product questions to Acella but have not heard back yet. I feel some assurance knowing that you’ve been on NP Thyroid long enough to test it out and seem to be doing well on it. Thanks so much for all that you’re doing here. It is my go-to place whenever things start getting wacky with thyroid meds and manufacturing. Very grateful for this forum and your expertise!
I have been using Erfa since Armour was reformulated back in 2010 and LOVED it. When I first read about some bad batches I didn’t think much of it as I’d had zero issues with it. However, when I reordered in January of this year I noticed the pills not only looked different but I was having trouble cutting the tablets in half in order to get my proper dosage of 1 1/2 grains. The pills would just crumble. I’ve been doing this for YEARS so knew something was obviously off but still went ahead and took them. Within a few days I started getting really itchy along my collar bone and broke out in hives. I didn’t know what was causing it at the time and thought maybe I was having a reaction to something else until about 2 weeks later I put two and two together and realized it started right after I began the new batch of Erfa. I still had enough of my old bottle left to test out my theory and within a few days of stopping the new ones the rash began clearing. I tested it out 3 separate times and each time got the same reaction so I contacted Erfa after speaking with the pharmacist who said the company should know about my reaction. Erfa denied any changes other than moving their manufacturing facility from Belgium to Spain. She said they’d had several complaints about the change in the way they look but couldn’t figure out why because the formula was the same…. sorry but you don’t break out in hives for nothing when you’ve been taking the exact same meds for years with no trouble. I even brought in my old Erfa and the new Erfa to my doctor who agreed something had definitely changed based on the way they looked and now crumbled (also showed her the hives I developed). I stopped Erfa and my doctor switched me to NP which has been okay (first tried WP but hated that). Since January I’ve attempted over a dozen times to try to take this bottle of Erfa again for a couple days and every single time I start getting itchy and then break out in hives within about 3 days. I really liked Erfa best of all the NDT brands I’ve tried so kept wanting it to work. It looks like the complaints have died down so I’m going to try to order another batch and see what happens- really hoping it was a fluke and they’ve fixed the issue by now.
I think the complaints have died down because people have decided to just give up on ERFA altogether. I was also getting by on old stock that I managed to get my hands on after reacting to the new ERFA. A couple of weeks ago I finally ran out of my old stock and decided to give new ERFA yet another try. Since the pharmacist knows of my problems with new ERFA, she agreed to loan me ONE 30 mg tablet and ONE 60 mg tablet since I react to new ERFA after taking only one and know right away if there will be a problem.
Both of the tablets look different than my old stock, but I decided to try the 30 mg tablet (the 60 mg tablet is so speckled, it almost looks grey instead of the usual white). I knew right away from the way the 30 mg tab crumbled (I take it sublingually) that there was probably going to be a problem. This time, though, after about 30 seconds under my tongue, it started to burn badly to the point where I had to spit it out. It was like I had taken a lit match and put it right in my mouth. The amount that I had absorbed would have been very tiny, but I still had a stomach reaction to it for most of the day. So I now know nothing has changed. I’m not even going to bother taking the 60 mg tablet. If it’s of any importance, the lot number for the 30 mg tab is LF04826A expiry 01/2018. The 60 mg tab is LF06221A expiry 11/2018.
It’s so depressing and infuriating that a high-quality product has been ruined by whatever happened. I have a feeling there might be something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself because I tried numerous combinations of compound ndt in the last year, and didn’t feel well on those either. But yet, I have no reaction whatsoever to the old stock (different lot #’s and expiry dates), and did great on those. So, no, I don’t believe the issues have been resolved.
That was nice the pharmacist allowed you to have one to try it out- that way you didn’t have to waste the $ on a whole bottle of bad meds. You are right it is SO frustrating that they would mess with a good quality product and something is obviously wrong. I still have two old empty bottles with 2017 expiration dates that had no problems. The one I had rashes from is Lot #LF05809A Exp 9/2018 so right in between the two you just got.
I did go ahead and place a new order this week as a last ditch effort to see if they’ve fixed whatever is going on. If not I’m just going to give up and stick with the NP which hasn’t been bad but just not as good as old Erfa. The pharmacy confirmed they are shipping me a bottle with a 2019 expiration date so at least I know it will be one of Erfa’s newest batches. I’ll report back on what happens- really, really, really hoping it will work this time!
Thanks Michelle…please keep us posted. I have done just okay on Nature-Throid. Did NOT do well on Acella NP or WP. Am currently trying (see my comments below) the Kripps Pharmacy compounded.
Janie: Thanks for your interest, but I am finding that I can do just fine on some Nature-throid batches, can feel hypo on some and hyper on others. How or why would cortisol or iron issues worsen on some batches and not show themselves on others?
I think you need to be open to having either inadequate iron and/or a cortisol problem. It’s just a very common reason why folks don’t do well on NDT…
Angie
Well…I think an iron or cortisol problem would be more persistent and not “fluctuate” so wildly depending upon different lots (and I always, always, always ask for the lot # of each refill and expiration date) of medicine. If you have an answer for why that might be,Janie, I am “open” to listen. I was one of the first to notice a problem with ERFA. A medicine that had not revealed an iron or cortisol problem prior, and that I had done well on for 5 years. It’s my suspicion that I do better on meds with far fewer fillers and a little higher T3/T4 ratio.
Angie, if you are as open as you state, take the time to be honest with any answers in doing the Discovery Steps here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info (plus more in Chapter 5 of the revised STTM book) and do all four iron labs…and compare them to the following page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values Granted, it “could” be the fillers for you. But having been doing what I do for 14 years, Angie, I see this repeatedly. i.e that what you describe is even more, and for a high percentage of people with similar problems, about either cortisol or iron.
Angie
Janie..I’m curious…why have you decided that I have an iron or cortisol problem? I’ve asked the question as to why either or both problems did not reveal themselves on the old ERFA or persist regardless of which Nature-throid batch I might have, and I don’t think I’ve received an answer. I currently have an N-T batch that I’ve done reasonably well on, and am currently adjusting my Kripps dosage, so we’ll see. I don’t think this is just about fillers”..I think this may, for me at least, be also about a little higher T3/T4 ratio, as I’ve said.
It’s not a decision, just a hunch, Angie. Because people don’t normally have issues with Naturethroid, which has been a pretty consistently good product. So when people do, it usually means they in fact do have inadequate iron or a cortisol issue, which any of the better NDTs will reveal. So be open to it by doing the four iron labs, and answering the Discovery Steps on the Adrenal Info page.
wideawake
Just want to jump in on this convo. I just got the new batch of Thyroid and they def look different. Im very sensitive to any kind of meds so often I just bite off 1/2 and than only take it once or twice a week. My T3 and T4 are considered ‘normal’ now but I see more symptoms arising. I cant fall asleep or stay asleep and this is going on for months now. My eyes are drooping, lots of hair loss and dry skin. Got the whole textbook with the goiter, thanks to a doctor who told me not to worry about it in my 40’s because my numbers ‘were all normal’. So here I am, trying to do something about all this but so sensitive to all the meds. The first 3 hours in the morning after I take the NDT, I feel sleepy. Sometimes I just have to lay down. Sometimes if I take a whole NDT (30mg Thyroid), I feel good but cant sleep. Ive read through all this website a number of times and it sounds like a cortisol issue. Id love to just take the NDT and be well but its not working for me. Suggestions?? (I started taking NDT last year but not regularly because of the way it makes me feel)
Hi. Most of the time, when someone thinks they are “sensitive”, it’s actually reactions to have either low cortisol or inadequate iron. So the solution is to test cortisol via the 24 hour adrenal saliva test, and all four iron labs. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me 🙂
After 8 years on synthroid, past 3 months on 125 synthroid & 5 Cytomel, and never feeling well since being diagnosed I got my Dr to prescribe me NDT / Thyroid… After looking it up and reading this I am very scared. I just went and looked at my pills and they are speckled. I took my first one this morning. I already have terrible anxiety, brain “fog”, extreme fatigue and and a long list of other awful things I experience that I don’t need getting worse, I made this switch with high hopes but am now scared of what could happen! 😖 Compounded Thyroid may be better??
Thank you, Janie.
But why so many people getting sick after the denied change in Erfa Thyroid? I will ask my Dr to run those tests for me when I have my thyroid checked again in 4-5 weeks. I know my cortisol was checked by blood a while back and a basic iron test but I don’t know if they’ll check it by saliva. Hopefully. I don’t have the money to be ordering expensive private lab tests. I remember a few months ago I also asked him to run the two antibody tests associated with hashimotos and when it all came back he said everything looked fine… Does this just mean the Hashimotos is dormant?? I’ve been on the same dose of Synthroid since day 1, no jumping around. But it has to be Hashimotos that caused it doesn’t it? Happened postpartum…
Fran, your first post didn’t tell me that you were on Erfa. I now see you said “Thyroid”, which is what the company calls their NDT. We got in the habit of calling it Erfa since just using the word “thyroid” could imply any kind of thyroid medication. lol.
It is okay to see if it’s just a bad batch of Erfa. Some have experienced them for sure. But you will also want to rule out if it’s also that you have an adrenal or iron problem, too. We have to cover all bases, because being on Synthroid that long often causes both an adrenal issue and inadequate iron in a large body of patients which are now revealed by being on NDT.
Hi Fran,
Just wanted to let you know that I felt a transition period like that for the first few days and over the first month, I played with the dose using temperature and resting pulse, but now 3 months later, I not longer nap and feel wonderful.
I also take progesterone and pregnenolone.
Years ago, when I got my first prescription of desiccated thyroid, I was a mess and when I was leaving old Dr Derry’s office I said to him “Are you telling me that this pill is going to take care of all my symptoms?”
And he said “Yes, in a month you’re going to much better and shortly after, you’ll be back to your old self”.
He was right, but it took some time.
Good Luck!
Hi Nohan, thank you for your reply. Do you mean you felt a transition period when Erfa changed? Or switching from Synthroid to Erfa? I’ll have to look into how to use temperature and resting pulse.
Dear Janie: Am having some fairly significant issues with occasional Nature-throid batches. A batch that I purchased around 5-20 made me so sick I could barely drag myself around. And a batch (I had some leftover) that I had plenty left of from early Mar increased my heart rate 50% on the same dose that I had previously been on. I have been on/off these batches enough times to confirm the phenomena. And no, this is not adrenal or iron related. Appears something may be going on with RLC as well. Do we have a way to contact them directly? Don’t see one on their website.
Having been observing and collecting notes from patients for 14 years, I do occasionally see bad batches. But it’s very sporadic. I would find their website and talk to them. (And please be absolutely sure that your iron hasn’t gone done, or you don’t have a cortisol issue. I see SO many say they don’t, but when I look more closely at their labs, they do)
I have an appointment to ask my doctor one last time to put me on Natural Desiccated Thyroid.
If he does not agree I will find a new doctor that will prescribe it for me.
In the event of him being agreeable what Natural Desiccated Thyroid medication would you suggest I ask him for?
I have read almost everything on your site and blog about the lack of reliability of Armour and Erfa Thyroid.
I would prefer not to get into a situation where something he prescribes does not work then we are back to square one.
I’m in B.C. Canada and recommend desiccated thyroid from Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver….they say that they ship all over the world…and they shipped it fairly quickly to me after my Dr faxed the Rx
It comes from NZ and the best I’ve found. A woman named Alissa on the forum here was the one who graciously shared the information and I am indebted to her as this is like all thyroid should be.
Check out her posts, as she certainly did her homework.
Kripps is easy to find: https://krippspharmacy.com/ – a google search of Kripps Pharmacy will bring it right up – they will ship anywhere. I am very happy with their compounded NDT and it’s the only place I could find that sells prescription porcine thyroid from New Zealand which means pasture raised pigs that are not fed Roundup soaked GMO feed. It is more expensive – 3X what ERFA costs in Canada (a little over $100 for 100 day supply), but after a couple months of nagging and sending notes from my Dr., etc. I did get my full 80% insurance coverage for it. Keep at them if your insurance company whines about paying for compounded meds – just keep insisting that they pay for it and keep bumping it up the food chain complaint/appeal wise. In Canada it’s no lie that there are no other options for NDT if ERFA isn’t working for you. It might be harder to get full insurance coverage for compounded NDT in the US where ether are more commercial options, but they should pay for at least some of it.
I also am LOVING compounded slow-release synthetic T3 on top of it. If anyone suspects a problem converting T4 to T3 and/or reverse T3 issues or if you can’t handle as much NDT as you think you need when you feel like you’ve done all you can with the iron and adrenals, I highly recommend giving that that a shot.
Alissa I don’t know why most of my posts are not being displayed but here goes anyway – I have been in contact with pcnzltd.co.nz New Zealand’s largest compounding pharmacy and they have informed me that New Zealand does not have their own thyroid powder supplier and that they actually order it in from the united states. So if Kripps is ordering powder from New Zealand then their really getting US thyroid powder… Did Kripps give you source info?
And US powder has all five thyroid hormones from the pig, by the way. Nothing is removed; nothing is synthetic. And it’s made according to the guidelines of the US Pharmacopeia. Important to lay that out there to avoid unfounded negative speculations.
Alissa
I contacted pcnzltd.co.nz too – they are not who Kripps gets their thyroid from. They have another supplier that Dr. Thorpe does not want to share and I respect that. He provided the ingredients (which is just potato or corn starch and cellulose) and the T4 & T3 levels when I asked. It’s USP whole porcine thyroid powder so it has all the various hormones – nothing has been removed. It has slightly less T4 and about the same T3 as the US powder, but no lactose which is what made me look for an alternative and I did a lot of looking around and contacted pharmacies and compounding pharmacy suppliers all over the place. If you don’t have an issue with lactose, there is probably no need to look further than the American Labs powder that’s more readily available at any compounding pharmacy.
Nohan
I had emailed a company in NZ called Agri-Lab with some questions as I was wondering about cellulose …here’s some excepts
“We have Freeze Dried Bovine Thyroid Gland available as a powder (as well as many other glandulars which are exported all over the world including to Canada”.
“Our products are bulk packed and not in a ready-to-use form — further processing, for example blending or encapsulation, and labeling, is required and is not the responsibility of Agri-lab”.
Kripps Pharmacy’s is making thyroid that is equivalent to the thyroid that was being made by Pfizer (formerly Parke-Davis) before Erfa bought it.
In my opinion, Efra is untrustworthy……after the sale, they could not get their act together to supply their customers and impacted thousands of lives as it was simply unavailable for months and months and then they produced a substandard product.
You can get lost in the extraneous details, but countless people have been searching to find a thyroid pill that works, Kripps is one and there’s more.
If Erfa isn’t can’t be trusted, just keep trying others
Personally, I don’t care where it comes form, because the endgame is to feel good and I, along with Alissa have achieved that with Kripps compounded thyroid..
Tim. I am not sure if you can get any other NDT brand but Erfa if you are in Canada. I may be wrong about that. I am confident that if anyone knows for sure, Janie would know.
I do know of a few Canadians who are allergic to some of the fillers in Erfa and have had to get their natural desiccated thyroid med/rx compounded by a compounding pharmacy. I think they said they use lysine as the filler. I think you can also use acidophilus as a filler.
If this is true (that your doctor can only prescribe or has access to Erfa in Canada), you might see if the doc can write you a prescription for ‘natural desiccated thyroid’ and write the dosage in grains instead of milligrams (gr versus mgs). One grain equals 60 or 65 mgs, depending on the manufacturer.
There are a few vendors in Canada that carry Erfa as well as Naturethroid and Armour and, if your prescription doesn’t specify a particular brand name, you might be able to get them to give you the Naturethroid instead of Erfa? That is a lot of ‘ifs’.. but I just am not sure what you can work out because of being in Canada.
Here is a link to a company that I dealt with for years and had no problem getting thyroid meds delivered to the states. They do require a prescription. You just scan and save your prescription and then send it as an attachment on an email that you send to the company after you order. You might call them and see if they can deliver Naturethroid in Canada. I know it sounds weird to question whether a Canadian company can deliver something into Canada but they often ship meds from their suppliers in other countries. https://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/thyroid
I don’t think you can’t buy any commercial NDT other than ERFA in Canada – I believe it’s the only one approved by Health Canada. You can get compounded NDT at pretty much any compounding pharmacy anywhere though – even if they don’t normally stock it, they probably will get it for you if you ask – every place I went would. Most pharmacies get the thyroid powder they compound from PCCC with gets it from American Laboratories – the only manufacturer in North America. All their NDT comes in a lactose base which was the main reason I went looking from something else and found the kiwi thyroid from Kripps that is in a cellulose & potato starch base.
I’m still waiting on the results of the testing Health Canada is supposedly doing on the ERFA samples I sent them. I emailed a couple weeks ago to see if there was any news and was told my samples had be sent to their lab, but the guy I’m dealing with did not have any results back yet. He assured me that he will let me know the outcome of the testing, which can take a while, and I’ll post that here whenever I hear back from them.
I keep checking back to see if Health Canada has gotten back to you with those results. I don’t know about Health Canada, though – ie. trusting *their* judgment regarding what is healthy for all Canadians – just look at their latest campaign to have Canadian ground beef irradiated for longer shelf life. Makes me wonder about them to be honest.
I don’t have a lot of faith in Health Canada myself and was shocked they even took me up on my offer to provide samples for testing – I really did not expect anything to come out of the complaint. It will be interesting to see what they come back with. I don’t know that I would truly trust their judgment and the T4 & T3 levels is probably all they are testing. I do have enough samples of good and bad batches left to have some other testing done, but I doubt I’ll bother – it’s pretty expensive and I’m happy on something else.
At this point, I’m actually glad the ERFA quit working for me because if forced me to find something that works better than it ever did. I was in a very bad place right after a bad reaction when I made the complaint and I had been stressing about running out of the old ERFA I scored and having to try a new batch for a year and a half – I thought about it every day when I took it. I’m so glad that ordeal is over and wish I would have looked for something else sooner. I really think the compounding where you have more control over the ingredients and dosing is way better. I cut those powdery pills that turn to dust in half for years off and on depending on the dose I was taking – now I can get exactly the dose I want put in a capsule which is awesome with an added bonus of some extra vitamin C.
Suze
Any word at all from Health Canada yet? I know that the bad batches of Erfa do contain some thyroid, but it is erratic amounts – I took them for several months (deliberately to prove that I was wrong and there was nothing wrong with them) and my free T3 went way over the top of the range, while the TSH and free T4 remained moderately low which is hypo, for me. I would dearly love to get random pills from all my batches analyzed to prove their inconsistency, but I’ve looked into it and I can’t afford to pay hundreds of dollars. Because this is prescribed you would think the pharmacists and doctors would be at least concerned, but they looked at me with a glazed, blank expression like “DUH? No one else ever complained about these pills…but then not many people take them….and no, we can’t and won’t analyze them.” It’s Health Canada’s job to analyze pills that made hundreds of people sick so where are their reassurances? I have looked at their site and they list several suspicious reports, but I don’t see any warning, recall or anything at all from them and this stuff started being reported more than two years ago!!!!!!
Hello Gina,
I’m on Erfa for about 3 years. I bought my bottle of this batch in March.
As I said it works like before for me. I think it’s important to say it.
Yes I’m sure we all would prefer not to smell the stench of the NDT. Except there is a huge problem. As so clearly printed on the Armour thyroid insert. Armour “is a natural preparation derived from porcine thyroid glands and has a strong, characteristic odor.” – Not any more! Basically it used to stink like pork. So did erfa. Everyone is noticing that odor is missing from the NDT’s across the board… It isn’t rocket science. No characteristic porcine odor = no porcine…
The odor dissapeared at the same time as pig shortages, with the return of people getting sick on the newer odor free pills.
Again, that is false, Gina. The lack of the characteristic smell can mean they are using a different means to press the tablets and/or cover the tablets, or some change to the fillers. That has been proven before by the fact that chewing the tablets up to a pulp (of certain brands that appeared to change) has rid many people of symptoms. Nothing takes away that Erfa became problematic, and so did Armour after 2014. But it is not helpful to keep pushing that it means in black and white terms “no porcine”. Both problem occurred after the way the tablets are made changed.
Ocarino
I have discovered what “bad batch” can mean with ERFA concerning this one ” 09/2018″ LF05809A.
The difference of potency is quite huge, all my hypo effects get back and forced me to stay on bed with very low energy 🙁 Cannot trust ERFA anymore..
If a brand new batch that expires in 2018 is still subpar, I guess they did not resolve their manufacturing problem. I had high hopes of getting a good batch if I waited long enough for them to correct things, but I think I’ll stay with the synthetic.
This is the same batch I got that caused me to break out in hives over a dozen times I’ve attempted to take it. Something is obviously off but hoping they’ve resolved it by now so going to try one more attempt before I just give up and stick with NP.
I’ve been seeing Dr. David Thompson since 2007 – he’s an endo at UBC/VGH in Vancouver, BC. NDT is not his first choice, but he will prescribe it along with T3 only, compounded NDT, and NDT from the US if you are willing to cross the border yourself to get it – I dabbled with Armour back in 2014 when I had the first bad reaction to the new ERFA. He does dose more by symptoms than labs and has kept me with a low out of range TSH (but not totally suppressed) for years – I still think I was underdosed pretty much the whole time I was on ERFA though. He is good about ordering labs (with the exception of reverse T3 – he says he can’t order that one and have it covered) and does free T3 & T4 and antibody tests on a regular basis if you ask, and he also has been helpful with ordering vitamin D and different iron tests that have to be ordered by a specialist for MSP coverage in BC. He will work with you, but he takes a very measured and methodical approach. I find keeping very detailed notes of my symptoms and how they change with dosage changes complete with tricky excel charts graphing it all really helps – I’ve been building a good relationship with him for nearly a decade though so that helps too. He is getting kind of old and can’t be too far off from retirement. Hopefully, he will find someone to take over his patients with hard to treat thyroid problems which are probably the only ones he sees – if I had not had a severe bad reaction to Synthroid the first time I took it, I probably would never have gotten referred to him all those years ago. It usually takes 2-3 months to get an appointment with him even if you are an existing patient so plan ahead on that.
Thanks for doing the math…but Mr Thorpe phoned yesterday as my Dr had written
240 a day, 60 per pill, so this first month is going to be pricey, but hopefully I’ll find a sweet spot in that month and then get the pills in a cheaper dose.
I’ve been taking 125 of Synthroid with 25 Cytomel and still flat lining. I don’t have a weight issue, but am constantly battling fatigue, cold hands, feet and just the “planning” of dinner is exhausting, let alone cooking the damn meal, and that’s with usually a 2 hour nap and a constant supply of strong coffee.
I think I’ll go straight on 120 of the thyroid for 2 weeks and take it from there and if need be, up and maybe cut up the cytomel pill, but damn, why do we need that along the pure thyroid?
By the way, Mr Thorpe did mention it to me using the pharmaceutical word and I thought “later maybe” but I didn’t even know it was T3 which I’m thinking would be a slow release Cytomel. Right?
It should be here Friday or Monday, along with orders of progesterone and pregnenolone. which I’ve been out of for awhile and frankly just too lazy and apathetic to re-order.
It sounds like you’ve noticed some really positive changes in a week….that’s great, I’m feeling a little uncertain of dosing, as just don’t want to tank anymore than I am, nor go the other way…..but he stressed the importance of temperature and pulse, so will rely on that.
Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it , as others no doubt will too.
I think I have a problem converting T4 to T3 and that is probably why I’m loving the slow release T3 (liothyronine) on top of the NDT. Cytomel was too much for me even in small doses, but this sustained release stuff is very gentle and seems to just soak in without required much effort my my body to do anything with it. Like I said before, I found the Kripps NDT to be not as strong as the ERFA and I’m now up to 30mcg of the T3 on top of 125mg of the NDT and I am feeling better than I have in a very long time. Even if they are expensive, I think having he 60s the first month will be good and give you lots of flexibility to find your right dose. You might not need the T3 on top, but I recommend trying it – my hands and feet have not been this warm in over a decade and I can already tell a difference in my skin and brain power!
125mg of the NDT from Kripps did not seem as strong as 125mg of ERFA and according to the specs it does have a little less T4 and about the same T3. However, I am now adding 30mcg of T3 on top of it and that is probably what is making the difference and making me feel so much better. I started out with just the NDT for almost a week and then started adding 7.5mcg every few days and I’ll keep doing that until I feel like it’s too much. I’ve been keeping my TSH below .1 for over 5 years so it will be interesting to see what happens with that – I’ll do labs in 2-3 weeks after I quit upping the dose.
Low energy is not that much of an issue for me and amazingly I quit caffeine completely about 6 months ago after being a hardcore addict my whole adult life – fyi LOTS of magnesium and ginseng are the key to painless caffeine withdrawal. Since I started the new compounded meds, I have been sleeping better/harder and also have been waking up on my own before my alarm which is always nice.
Hi Alissa: I want to say that your posts are both intriguing and helpful. I was WONDERFUL on ERFA from 2009 to early 2014. I have tried several batches since then and have only had one that was any good. I have emailed Kripps for more info and am so hopeful that I can reach my old ERFA self with their product. Please keep us posted on how you are doing. I am “maintaining” with Nature-throid, but have not reached the level of wellness I had with ERFA. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and to post the info with regard to Kripps!
I have a 4/17 batch bottle here of ERFA that I am afraid to try. It is listed above in the “good batch”section but there was someone who complained about this batch on the comments on the other page and they are visibly different. When I compare the new pills to the old ones they slightly browner, specled with tiny dark dots and are shiny. The smell from the bottle is different too. More medicinal than the familiar stinky smell we all know to well. The label is different as well. I am noticing that erfa used to be in lower case letters and now it’s capital letters…
Don’t be afraid to try it. Take it and be a scientist and observe the results. That is what we all have to do! That is what I had to do with every single batch or change in dose. In fact, though I’ve just been raising my dose of Synthroid and Cytomel to become closer to euthyroid, and am on the verge of being euthyroid every day, I thought of actually trying my old batches of Erfa again as an experiment. I mean the results are temporary if they are bad, and I would go right back to the synthetic if the Erfa still didn’t work. And of course my long term goal is to go back to Erfa eventually – a new supply. It’s been two years since the bad pills. Surely they would have fixed them by now – that would be my gamble if I got a new supply.
Suze – what batches of erfa do you have? Are they the bottle with the old label or the new label? erfa or ERFA. I have a bottle dated 04/17 and it has the new label and it looks like the new pill on the right, in the pic at the top of this page. I tried it for 2 days and I was jittery and sick to my stomach. Also a terrible headache. Now my hair is falling out in clumps! I don’t know what to take??? I was perfect on erfa till they changed it.
They are in the drugstore bottles so I don’t know about the original labels on the Erfa bottles. I have just a few left of the non shiny older ones. I started these yesterday as an experiment (125 mg to start) and so far so good. These expire 4/17. I also have some 8/17- 30 mg tablets that I will use next if I feel OK on these. After being on Synthroid and Cytomel for 6 months I am doing OK but not perfect and I just wanted to give Erfa another chance and see if the Erfa worked for me this time because I am fed up with never losing weight no matter what I do. If you continue to feel sick on the Erfa can you ask your dr. about giving you another kind right away? Did you have a blood test to make sure it’s the right dose? The hair falling out sounds like a hypo thing I used to have.
Your 4/17 batch look like the old pills? My 4/17 batch are the new pills. Shiny with dark speckles more gritty to chew… I have tried others all seem to have changed.
Suze
My 4/17 pills are shiny and taste sugary sweet without the pork smell than they used to have. They have no dark specks on them and are very easy to chew, dissolve immediately and not gritty at all. They are the newer batch but I had no bad reaction to them before. The older ones were matte, not shiny, with a less deep indentation of the lettering. I still have a few in a plastic bag and they expired in 8/15 and I may take them next. Then I have a bottle of 30 mg pills that I am going to take and see what happens. They are 8/17. So far I am euthyroid on these Erfa pills of 125, exp. 4/17. I have only one left for tomorrow and then I will start the older ones.
gina
Do you feel well on them? I have the 125 mg also…How long have you been taking them now?
Suze
I only took the Erfa for 3 days. I felt well but I went back to the T4 and T3 today. I decided not to use the old 30 mg pills or the expired 125 mg pills. It was an experiment and I may go back to Erfa after I get a new prescription. I am sure the Erfa 4/17 is fine and I hope you are doing well on your pills.
KJ
I am new to trying ERFA- Thyroid. I had a bad reaction to it. I am deeply thankful that I found this website and read about it because I figured I just couldn’t take dessicated thyroid, which is not the case. It was the ERFA brand that does not agree with me. My symptoms reminded me of when I took too much iodine and it would put me into more of a hypothyroid state, very cold hands, shivering to where I had to take a hot steaming bath to warm up, and a deep sleepy fatigue and pounding headache. I plan on trying some of the other NDT to find which works best for me, perhaps the Thyroid-S or Nature-Throid. I think it is important to let the company know when people have a bad reaction so that they are aware that there could be a problem. If they are a good company they will be happy to receive feedback and make every effort to produce a good product.
The expiration date on my bottle is 09/2018, Lot: LF05828A
Years ago after Armour changed, I read that a biologist, Dr Ray Peat said that Forest had taken a derivative out of the thyroid to sell separately and that was why it didn’t work as well. It’s just strange that both US and Canada top desiccated thyroid pills went downhill around the same time.
I doubt an investigation by Health Canada is going put Erfa out of business, they’ve got a monopoly here in Canada, but I wonder if they are going to test to see that all the known derivatives are present in the pills….that would be interesting because the original desiccated thyroid worked 100% and now it doesn’t, so makes sense that something could be missing in it….that’s what it feels like to me.
“The old Armour thyroid, made from beef and pork glands before 1990, did contain other components that were probably valuable, but when T3 is absorbed by mitochondria it’s immediately changed into T2, so the synthetic T3’s effects can’t be distinguished from those of a mixture of T3 and T2. The company that now makes Armour thyroid started removing the calcitonin in the 1990s, to sell as a separate product.”
It’s interesting – when I was asking Dr. Thorpe at Kripps how he would recommend my adding some slow release T3 to my NDT – how quickly I should raise the dose and how I would know when I’m at a good point with it, he could have been quoting this article. He made a big point encouraging me to use basal body temp and heart rate as the key indicators of correct dosing and to try to the ignore blood tests. I’m totally going to make a chart and track this closely as recommend in the article as I tinker with the dose.
That article also got me thinking that I need to look at my adrenaline levels again – that always seemed to be more of the adrenal problem for me rather than cortisol which always checked out ok or just a little on the high side. I was thinking about adding some low dose hydrocortisone after a few suggestions, but that might be a mistake and perhaps I should look into other ways to reduce my adrenaline levels first or just give the little nips of slow release T3 I’m adding some time to do their thing. Despite meditating everyday and doing lots of yoga, saunas, soaking, etc., I’ve totally been stressing about running out of the old ERFA for the last few months and then after having the bad reaction again having to find something else!
Kripps would have received my prescription today which my Dr wrote for 240 a day, but they are compounding at 120 a tablet with minimal fillers.
Did Thorpe suggest the extra T3? I’ve been taking Synthroid at 120 and Cytomel at 25mcg for a couple of years and never noticed a difference….
I’ve followed a lot of Ray Peat’s advice over the years and also had a email consultation and while the diet made a difference, I still feel like I’m running on empty by noon and need a nap before the kids get home.
Have you figured out the cost per capsule?
Thanks,
Both Dr. Thorpe and a naturopath recommended the slow release T3 on top of the NDT and my endocrinologist wrote the prescription for it – he thought it was worth trying too. I can’t believe how warm I am, especially my hands and feet and my body temp is higher than it’s been in years. It’s very gentle and I find it a millions times better than Cytomel which I could not handle at all – I did it both with Synthroid and alone back before trying NDT. I had a really bad reaction to that Cytomel – it was like taking a weak and not very fun hallucinogen. My Dr. said I was probably manufacturing my own adrenochrome (of Fear & Loathing fame) due to too much adrenaline mixing with a burst of T3.
Kripps charged me $106 for 100 125mg ($1.06/ea.) of the NDT – a little more than 3X what ERFA costs – and $55 for 90 7.5mcg ($.61/ea.) slow release T3. I’ll be getting some 15mcg capsules soon and they won’t be much more – it’s the filling of the capsules that costs most of the money I believe. I will have some insurance coverage for this, but I’m still waiting to see how much – it probably won’t be the 80% I had with the ERFA but they should pay a minimum of $50-60 which is fine – so far it’s totally worth it to me .
Alissa, I think i saw that you tend to make RT3 if you raise NDT. Did you ever figure out what you do that? i.e. have you done an adrenal saliva test and what were the results? Is your iron optimal vs “in range”?
I’ve had adrenal testing a couple times – saliva & urine – and those always test out ok. Cortisol & adrenaline a little on the high side, but not by much – still in range. Iron is another story – I have been ‘borderline anemic’ since puberty (same with my mom and my grandma) and that got worse and moved below borderline with the thyroid problem and treatment. It does not matter how much or what kind of iron I take, I can’t seem to get my ferratin much over 80 (ug/L). Similarly, I found I was majorly deficient in both Vitamin D and magnesium and I’ve been really working on both of those, along with the iron. The magnesium deficiency was revealed when I first tried to take vitamin D and had a severe bad reaction – chest pain and high blood pressure spikes when that is normally low – below normal. I had to do tons of magnesium – oral and transdermal – for 6 weeks before I could handle any vitamin D – now I’m up to 6000-10000 IU/day and brought the hydroxy 25 (nmol/L) levels from below 20 to a little over 80. I’m really trying to get both the ferratin and vitamin D at least over 100 to rule them out as causing issues, but I seem to max out around right around 80 for each – I just had those tested and my levels of both with went down or up just a little over the last 6 months while taking a LOT of supplements of a few different kinds to try to cover my bases – so discouraging. I thought switching to liposomal iron & vit D might help, but that didn’t make a difference, except in the cost! My body just does not seem to process either one properly and it’s really frustrating. I’m hopeful that adding this slow release T3 to the NDT will finally do the trick since I could never handle as much NDT as I thought I needed without getting all jittery, sweaty and feeling like my heart was going to explode – it really seems to be helping so far with none of the bad effects above.
Great and it makes sense as to why it would work and then not work.
I’ve always thought that and in 2012 I wrote Erfa with that question;
Do you use 100% of the animal thyroid in your Desiccated Thyroid Pills or do you remove some of the components ?
My answer;
Thank you for contacting ERFA Canada 2012 inc. We use the porcine thyroid gland itself. Once it is dried we have a purification process that takes place (removing bacteria, etc..). At the end of the purification process we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered.
Dr Henri Knafo, MD, M.Sc, B.Sc
Directeur Médical/Medical Director
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc
Wonder what the etc was…I guess the question now should be;
Do you remove any of the calcitonin from the porcine thyroid glands?
Nohan I have tried to contact r Henri Knafo and my e-mail is always returned as undeliverable. Maybe the purification process is different now?? I wonder what he meant by ” we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered”? I guess he means they check to make sure its the same? Well it isn’t. The pills are gritty now when I chew them and they have darks specks that the old never had. Something is visibly different with them aside from the negative results…How dare they tell us nothing has changed!
Good morning,
It’s the first time I write a comment here but I don’t feel really comfortable with this complaint to Health Canada.
I’m 68 years old and on Erfa thyroid for about 3 years now. Let me say that this product changed my life.
I have blood tests done on a regular basis and everything is normal (well as much as it can be at my age!)
I do have other health issues like cholesterol and hypertension. Some days are better than others but to say it’s all because of Thyroid… NO.
Thyroid problems are so different for each person. I don’t think that these accusations about toxins or contaminants are relevant. I’m afraid that with this complaint to health canada you will do more harm than good for patients happy and healthy thanks to erfa.
I definitely agree with you Cathy.
When I saw these comments about a different quality of thyroid and even toxins, I was afraid for my health.
I went to my pharmacy in Burnaby BC and talked for a moment with my pharmacist about it.
He confirmed that he orders Thyroid for a long time now because many of his clients are on this medication. He received 0 complaints in years + He almost laughed when I talked about a toxin or a contaminant in the product. He said that we would know it directly if it was the case because symptoms would be (for every single patients on it) like a food poisoning (vomiting, diarrhea…)
Do the person who made this complaint has these symptoms? Because if it’s not the case, she shouldn’t create rumors like this and try to destroy the reputation of a good product I use and love every single day of my life. (And I believe I’m not the only one). If I’m not feeling good on a medicine anymore, well I’ll change! I won’t ask entire Canada to change with me. This is nonsense.
To end on a more positive tone Janie I really like your blog and all the work behind it. You helped me a lot Thank you!
Dorothy unfortunately for some of us we did have an immediate reaction very similar to food poisoning, which we have mentioned further back in this blog, and which is why I can never trust the product again, without knowing what has happened. Within half an hour of taking the first of a new batch I had a violent trip to the bathroom, the same happened the next day and the third day I nearly passed out in the bathroom, had palpitations and then extreme dizziness and lightheadedness for 24 hours. I can only liken it to allergy mixed with knock-out meds. Like you I loved ERFA and had taken it since Armour was reformulated in 2009. I’m having a difficult time now because I’m in England where NDT is frowned on by most doctors and endocrinologists and this has added to their concerns, so I am having to buy over the internet. I don’t think anyone reporting this to Health Canada would do so lightly. I can’t do so because it seems from the forms that only those in Canada can, but, in view of the fact that the ERFA company say there has been no reformulation (and I believe them, because why would they feel the need to deny this if there had been!) I think someone should be investigating at the level of the manufacturing plant in Spain to see what is going on there. That must be where the problem lies.
I made a complaint to Health Canada and I’m glad I did and would do it again. Nothing is going to change with the availability of the new and far from improved ERFA unless they find a major problem and, if that’s the case, why anyone would want to keep taking it is beyond me. If I’m harmed by any product, I’m going to bring it to the attention of someone in a position to do something about it. However, the focus of my complaint was more about asking/begging them to approve other NDT options for use in Canada than doing anything punitive to ERFA. I did tell them my whole story with the bad reactions to not just the ERFA, but synthetic thyroid hormones as well which I also cannot tolerate at all so my options slim. I offered to supply samples for testing and they took me up on it.
I’m not asking anyone to change what they are doing and I am not even close to the only one that had a problem, noticed a change in the ERFA, or filed a complaint – there are lots from other people in this adverse reaction database in the last few years: http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/arquery-rechercheei/index-eng.jsp. The pages and the many comments on this site would not exist unless there is a problem. I was not well for most of 2014 and could not figure out what was going on until I stumbled on the page on this site saying the ERFA had changed. My doctors ran tons of tests and the only thing that came up weird was that my TSH was super low (almost undetectable when I had been stable at .1-.2 for years) and my free T4 & T3 were also low – hyper & hypo at the same time. All of this is very well documented with abnormal labs, detailed lists of symptoms I gave to my doctors, and dosage changes to try to make it work better which is probably why they followed up on my complaint I tracked down some old stock and was back to normal in no time. I don’t have many health issues – mostly just deficiencies – Vit D, magnesium, etc. – which is all related to the thyroid problem The same exact thing happened this year after my supply of the old ERFA dwindled and I had to try a new batch. I went back and forth enough to know there is a big difference at least in my body. ERFA saved my life in 2008 and I was devastated when it quit working for me.
I doubt it’s a toxin and suspect it’s a filler issue or something in the manufacturing process. Obviously, it’s something only some people are sensitive to. I avoid conventionally raised meat and dairy due to not wanting the hormones. antibiotics, or Roundup soaked GMO feed the animals are pumped full of and am really glad I no longer have to take a medicine every day that’s sourced from that kind of scary agriculture. When a frighteningly high percentage of feedlot pigs are ending up sterile and with deformed organs, how healthy do you think their thyroids are? This statement is a condemnation of North American agriculture in general and not directed at any particular company or product, except maybe Monsanto.
I also find it very alarming that the lablel on ERFA states “made in Canada” and the company confesses it is actually made in Spain. This is false advertising and illegal.
That could be right. But the bottom line is that it’s not a conspiracy. A company will say that something is “made by them” where they are located as a company, even if it’s put together somewhere else.
Jane
Good morning,
Just to say that I feel okay on ERFA for many years.
Never noticed a change…
It’s strange to read all these comments.
Jane – Can you please tell me what batch (date on bottle) you are currently taking of erfa? Does the bottle have the old label with lowercase erfa or the new bottle with ERFA? Do the pills have dark speckles.
I phoned Kripps and a woman pharmacist insisted that they just used Erfa…I re-read your email and phoned back for Dr. Thorpe and by that time someone had given her the word that she was wrong…so she wasn’t very pleasant, but I got the info I needed and will be seeing my Dr on the 15th and will get a prescription …..although I’m not even sure what amount to ask for….I did good on the old thyroid at 180 and I was taking 4 and 5 pills of Erfa which wasn’t doing much.
It’s about the same so 180-200mg should be good for you. It has 535 mcg of T4 and 139mcg of T3 per gram – you can do the math and make your best guess and what to try.
Hey Alissa,
i just talked to Mr. Thorpe as I had a couple of questions as to my Dr cutting the prescription and you were right, he is an old school thyroid guy…reminds me of old Dr Derry from Victoria who originally diagnosed thyroid, when my Dr denied it.
i mentioned to him that his name was now on the internet and he said “Great”, they ship all over…
Another thing I didn’t know was that they do thyroid prescriptions for naturopaths and vets…I would think they wouldn’t be so stuck in the dogma of conventional medicine for those who’s Drs aren’t hearing them.
I did warn Dr. Thorpe that I would be telling people about his kiwi NDT – I was so happy to find it. He’s old school for sure! I’ve been taking it for about a week and I think it is a bit weaker than the ERFA, but the difference might also be taking capsules rather than doing it sublingualy. I have opened the capsules a few times, but it needs some sugar or xylitol or something. Other than that, I like it – there’s none of jitteryness and tension I was feeling on my recent batch of ERFA and my hypo symptoms that returned after only 5-6 weeks on it are about gone, but I was on the good old ERFA for a couple weeks during the transition too.
It sounds like the transition is coming together….
When you took the capsules apart, did you take all the thyroid at once?
I just cannot swallow pills…it’s a tape loop in my brain that that it’s gonna get stuck in my throat…so I crush or chew everything…but I was wondering if by doing that, if I was going to OD on thyroid for an hour and then crash.
Did you notice any difference?
Alissa
The capsules are tiny. The last few days I’ve been opening them and putting the contents on a little xylitol and then letting it dissolve in my mouth and swallowing. I also then swallow the empty capsule because it’s not quite empty to make sure I get it all. I’m only doing 125mg of the NDT and I’m taking that at 10-11pm along with 7.5mcg of slow release T3. I would not worry about ODing – I’m taking it an hour to right before bed and have had no problem sleeping. I’m also taking 15mcg of T3 at 10-11am.
I’m staring to feel better than I have in awhile and am going to stick with this dosage for a bit and start monitoring my temp and pulse rate more closely before bumping it up again. I’ve been underdosed for going on 2 years because I reduced what I was taking in 2014 from 155mg then down to 140mg then down to 125mg with the first bad reaction to the new ERFA and then I only had 500 125mgs of the old stock ERFA and I would half-intentionally ‘forget’ to take it fairly regularly to make it last longer – pathetic. I’m so glad I’m not in that mindset anymore and can take as much as I want and experiment to find my optimal dose.
I’m really liking the slow release T3 with the NDT, but you do have to swallow an intact capsule for that. I have a tendency to get too much reverse T3 when raising the NDT over 2.5 grains so I think I’ll keep that at 125mg or maybe just a bit higher and keep adding the T3 until I find the sweet spot. I may also try ramping up the T3 and backing off the NDT ala the Wilson’s temperature syndrome treatment to clear out any excess reverse T3, but I’m not quite sure on that just yet. Since I’m feeling pretty good, I’ll probably just keep doing what I’m doing for now.
Suze
OK thanks for the link about Armour, Janie. I will not bother trying to get Armour since it seems as wracked with scandal as Erfa. I was not impressed to read that this important product was sold so many times to different companies. I did some research and it used to be made by Armour who had packing plants that don’t exist anymore. An unnamed company bought it from Armour and then it went to Forest and then Activas which became Allergan which was taken over by Pfizer this year. Armour’s website is being “updated” presumably to add the new info that it’s now owned by Pfizer. I read on some site a defense of the change in 2008, that it was done to increase the shelf life so they wouldn’t have to have big recalls of expired product since the larger doses didn’t sell as much. They did the recalls of their own free will when their testing showed slight loss of efficacy after a year. I just wonder if it would still be a stable product if Armour was still making it. It is hard to get straight answers about the history and manufacture of any thyroid product and I find that annoying and inexcusable. They should be competing to make the finest thyroid pill in the world but none of them seem to care. I’m still using t3 and t4 synthetics and just raised the t4 and lowered to t3 to try to tweak my dose. I miss the good Erfa but don’t dare to take my old pills again. Maybe some day I’ll try it again with a new batch.
You would think their priority would be to supply the utmost pure medication to us, especially since there are SO many people that need thyroid hormone to live any sort of liveable existence. It seems to be all about the almighty dollar, though.
How about all the thyroid sufferers tell the fda! I know you don’t like synthroid anymore but there is a reason? FDA took thyroid hormone out! did any of you know that? isnstead of the natural (which I know are important) go to the FDA and tell them YOU WANT 90 to 110 percent potency back in synthroid and take the coding off the pills cuz it causes a absorption problem by not getting all the synthroid. FDA has told me they haven’t heard any complaints. I think it’s because all of you are here want natural and no fda can regulate a natural med. look up fda and tell them synthroid is no longer working because there is not enough HORMONE! thanks kimi
Kimi, the problem with Synthroid is not because there is “not enough hormone” or because “it was taken out”. You have misunderstood something you have read. Synthroid hasn’t worked because it’s simply a storage hormone i.e. only one of five thyroid hormones, and the body is not meant to live for conversion alone. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
I had a bad batch (Lot: 13G051, Exp: 07/2016) two years ago and felt awful. After that I had good luck (and good batches) for almost two years and almost forgot about this. Until a month ago I bought a new bottle and noticed right away it was one of the bad ones (Lot: LF04143A, EXP: 07/17). The pills were much harder and soon enough I started to feel as though I hadn’t taken Erfa Thyroid at all.
I’m losing my faith in Erfa Thyroid. But the thing is, we have only two options of NDT here in Finland: Armour and Erfa Thyroid. And Armour seems to be unreliable too at the moment.
I tried that since it worked for me with the reformulated Armour. I have found out that these bad batches of Erfa work best for me if I crush the tablets (really grind them) between two spoons, add a little bit of sugar and then place the powder under my tongue. It seems to dissolve right away.
What’s strange about these batches is that you just don’t know which ones are good and which are bad. I mean I’ve had a good and a bad batch with the same expiry date (07/17) and almost the same lot number (LF04141A=good, LF04143A=bad). It’s like a lottery with your health.
Oh, but I just found out that they have started importing Nature-Throid to Finland. We do have a choice after all!
After some experimenting I´ve found that chewing the tablets does help after all. You just have to keep on chewing for a longer time than I did (chew until there’s no pieces left in your mouth).
For those who crushed the tablets and it worked, that was not my problem. I have chewed up my thyroid tablets since 1991, ever since I found out they were formulated with sugar and were chewable. I wanted them to work right away, not slowly dissolve in the stomach. If it was a matter of grinding them to a fine powder to make them work, wouldn’t chewing them up be equivalent? Despite chewing them every time, there were distinctly bad batches of Erfa in 2014 and 2015 which made me ill, and I finally gave up and went back to synthetic T4 and T3. My dream is to get my new endo to prescribe NT or Armour. I am still not perfectly euthyroid on the synthetics and I never feel as perfect as I did from late 2012 to early 2014 when the Erfa was perfect. Maybe it’s sheer superstition but I wonder if my body misses the T1 and T2.
Hi Suze, When Armour was reformulated in 2009 I started chewing it. Armour needed only a little chewing (maybe five seconds or so) to make it work again. I tried this with the bad batches of Erfa I received and at first decided it didn’t work. But then I tried again and this time kept on chewing until the pill had completely dissolved. This takes me maybe a minute or two. I then realized Erfa was working again. So chewing the pills for a longer time might make a difference.
donna
I switched last week from Erfa’s thyroid pills to a compounded thyroid hormone, and all the symptoms of muscle pain, muscle twitching, extreme muscle weakness, nausea, sleeplessness, emotional and psychological symptoms of exhaustion, paranoia, panic attacks, have all cleared up since I switched. But my first day on a low dose of hydrocortisone, I felt completely normal. I’m off the hydrocortisone now as my adrenal tests returned normal from the ACTH test. I feel so much better, and I’m writing to Health Canada about Erfa’s thyroid hormone, and I suggest anyone else on Erfa’s thyroid hormone experiencing a list of symptoms also write the Health Canada, and force Erfa to seriously look into what they did that made a medicine go from good to less valuable than T4 only. They should not be able to get away with this….enough is enough, I was sick for 18 months….damn sick~!
Hello Donna,
I’m happy to read that you feel better now. I just wanted to say that I felt some of your symptoms about 3 months ago. I’m on erfa to. I talked with my doctor (who is awsome bless him) and he told me to decrease my dosage. In one week everything was back to normal. It was as if my body was telling me that a smaller dosage would be enough for me.
So I don’t think Erfa has anything to do with that. I think it’s just impossible to create a unique pill perfect for everyone and for all your life. I accept the fact that I will probably have to change my dosage again in a few years…
Anyway… Happy that you found something else you like.
Good luck!
I agree Donna – I have been asking my doctors and pharmacists to file complaints with ERFA and Health Canada as well, but doubt they actually have. You can fill out an online complaint form with Health Canada here: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/compli-conform/prob-report-rapport/frm-0317-eng.php – everyone who has a bad reaction to the new ERFA should – it only takes a few minutes.
I was able to stockpile a stash of the old ERFA back in 2014, but it’s running out and expiring so I tried a new batch a month ago. I knew about a week in, it was not ok, but I am going to try to power through a month-6 weeks so I have the blood tests to prove somethings is off with it. My TSH will be super low/suppressed and free T3 will also be low – I can tell and that’s exactly what happened in 2014 – hypo & hyper at the same time. I have a prescription for compounded NDT and am shopping around for pharmacies – so far, I have not found anyone that can make me tablets I can do sublingualy which I would prefer to capsules. Any recommendations on compounding pharmacies in the Vancouver, BC area??
I’m from B.C. and was under the impression that the pharmacy’s would use Erfa in their formulas….am I wrong?
I used to take it, but in my opinion the quality immediately diminished when Erfa bought it from Parke Davis, I believe.
I’m on Synthroid and Cytomel which isn’t working but we lack choices here in Canada. I am thinking of
trying the Thyro Gold, but have read that on a website that one of their ingredients brings other problems, so would be interested to know what others think;
By the way Alissa, there’s a book out about Health Canada, called “Corrupt to the Core” ….so I wouldn’t waste the time or ink, but I believe there’s more value by this site and others exposing Erfa, it’s just too bad that they have no competition in Canada, so why clean up their act.
I also got a very nice personal reply from Health Canada from the form above. I was told that they “opened a case for further follow up” and that my complaint was added to their main database. Because I had a bad reaction, they escalated it to the “Canada Vigilance Program” and said they may contact me again – maybe they will test the old and new. If not, I’ll get that done somewhere. In my complaint I also asked that they approve more brands for use in Canada so patients have options. Corrupt or not, if they get enough complaints they will have to do something – it’s worth taking a few minutes to fill out the form.
I was contacted again by Health Canada – they are looking into this. They requested a lot more information including pictures of the bottles/labels and asked if they could contact the pharmacies I got them from so they can get for more information – lot numbers, etc. from them. Best of all, it sounds like they do want to test the pills – my old stock and the new! They are asking how many I have and would be willing to give them. I do not want to part with very many of the old ones, right now, but I offered a week’s worth – 7 pills and possibly more in a couple months if I’m dong well on the compounded thyroid. They can have all 63 of the new ones. I will report back on what develops with this for sure.
Update: Health Canada is going to test the ERFA! I’m sending them samples from the bad batch I got in February, two different batches that did not work well from 2014, and the good old stuff that does work. They have assured me that they will keep me posted on the progress of the investigation and outcomes of the analysis and I will report back here.
I probably will never take ERFA again after my stash of the old stuff is gone and/or when I’m stable on my new custom made meds, but I would still like to know what happened to it. Look into compounded NDT, especially if you are in Canada as it is the only other option – it is NOT ERFA. I think it is going to end up being a way better option, at least for me and worth every penny of the extra expense.
That’s great news about the compounded, but today I phoned some compounding pharmacies in B.C. and although it appears many are just using the synthetic in their formulas, a pharmacist I talked to said that they did do a desiccated one, although they did not know if the thyroid came from Erfa…but the company that they used for their compounding supplies was called PCCA http://www.pccarx.ca/products
I phoned them questioning if they used Erfa, cause I didn’t want it and the guy who was pretty good said that he wasn’t allowed to say where the product came from BUT I should maybe get the compounding pharmacy to inquire about the “Country of Origin” which pretty much said that it wasn’t from Canada.
Anyhow I did that and the pharmacist phoned and told me that it comes from the US…so would it be likely that this is from Activis as they are in Canada also, but there’s no mention of Thyroid on their website.
By the way, the “good guy” at PCCA said that their company spent a lot of money testing their drugs to make sure ingredients were spot on as they were used for compounding so quality would not be an issue with their products…
So I don’t know, but I’m going to go see my Dr in the next couple of weeks (different city) and will get a prescription for it.
Alissa
Every compounding pharmacy I have gone to (7 now) has or can and will get the NDT powder and there is no connection whatsoever with ERFA which is a commercial preparation made in Spain (formerly Belgium I believe) – not Canada. I have a big long message ‘awaiting moderation’ from a couple days ago mentioning PCCA and lots of info on how the compounding works – not sure why it has not been posted. The PCCA powder is just dried porcine thyroid (20-35%) and lactose (65-80%) Most of the pharmacies use them, but Medisca is the other big supplier in North America: https://www.medisca.com/. I would prefer not to have the lactose so I’m waiting to hear back on what exactly is in the Medisca powder. You also can find out exactly how much T3 & T4 is in each batch – ask for the ‘certificate’.
Some people really like the compounded synthetics and there is way more flexibility with the dosing this way. Also think about getting the slow release capsules – I’m going to experiment with that rather than multi-dosing (which I often miss and don’t do consistently enough) and I’m also going to do some experimenting with slow release T3 on top of the NDT – I’ve had a few pharmacists and naturopaths recommend that. I’m still shopping around, but Finlandia, Kripps, and Pure all look pretty good and they do ship – internationally even, but there are compounding pharmacies everywhere. I’m really excited about getting to customize something exactly to my needs and wish I would have gone this route years ago. I think the ERFA getting ruined is actually going to be for the best for me because it’s forcing me into something way better.
Alissa, where are you seeing that about the high percentage of lactose for what is used in compounded ndt? Can you post a link? The ndt powder made in the US at American labs for all prescription ndt only has a trace of lactose (probably because of what the pigs are fed). So I’m unclear why the powdered porcine for compounded would have such a high amount of lactose.
Alissa
I was told by that same pharmacist that they have to mix the dried thyroid powder with something for compounding purposes just so they could measure/weight it for accurate dosing. I guess the powder on its own is so potent even very accurate scales won’t measure it.
Something doesn’t sound right. All prescription NDT’s do use the powder as is…
Alissa
According to the Medisca’s MSDS – the 65-80% lactose by weight is the deal with the powder from American Labs. It is surprising since one of the main reasons people use compounding pharmacies is to avoid lactose.
Why are you not publishing my posts? I thought I had information people should know, but you are not sharing it so I guess I will not post here anymore.
Hmm. I’m just not sure that’s true that the powder from American Labs has 65-80% lactose. It’s so odd. As far as not publishing your posts, I’m not sure what you mean. All have been approved, so something must have gone wrong.
Alissa
Weird – when I look at this board, I see two of my posts saying ‘your comment is awaiting moderation’ – one from March 31 and one from today.
I emailed American Labs to ask who their distributors are. Both PCCA and Medisca sell it with that same lactose content, but maybe there are others that don’t?? I have yet to find a pharmacy that gets it from anywhere other than those two though and I’ve been to 7. I do have one pharmacist looking into it to see if they can find something without that much lactose outside their normal suppliers, but it might not exist.
Commercial prescription preps probably can buy just the died thyroid powder in bulk without that much lactose because they would be buying a lot of it. That pharmacist told me they have to add more of something when it’s sold for compounding so they can measure it and even then it’s a very small amount so the pharmacy has to add their own fillers to fill a capsule.
Alissa
American Labs was totally unhelpful and would not give me any info on their products or distributors. However, both PCCA and Medisca were super responsive and got back to my right away by phone or email. Neither adds the lactose themselves – they just sell the bulk porcine thyroid powder exactly how they get it from American Labs. Here is the link to Medisca’s SDS again since it was in one of my messages from a few days ago that did not get published and is still awaiting moderation: https://www.medisca.com/NDC_SPECS/MUS/1654/MSDS/1654.pdf
I do have a pharmacist checking to see if he can get anything else from beyond North America (New Zealand seems like the best option – might be coming from the same or similar source for what goes into ThyroGold – they have porcine and bovine), but right now I don’t have any choice other than to have some lactose with my compounded NDT. Crossing the border for other not great options with no insurance coverage is the only alternative other than ThyroGold. I’m from the US and am down there all the time, but the American commercial prescription NDTs are about as expensive as the compounded stuff in Canada (more after my insurance coverage) and they all seem to have their own issues anyway. I tried Armour back in 2014 and did not like it nearly as much as the old ERFA.
I’m tempted to try to round up some investors to produce an organic/grass fed/humanly pasture raised/sustainable/hypoallergenic (or close to it) prescription NDT. Obviously, there’s a market for it! I am envisioning a wishful thinking business model that sells high end pork chops to pay for free or greatly discounted/subsidized NDT for as many people as possible. I’ve never liked taking something originating from commercial feedlots everyday as I believe some of the pain and suffering those animals endure gets bound up in the products made from their dead bodies.
I will keep you posted on the Heath Canada investigation and testing of the ERFA – they should be getting my samples tomorrow. I have to say that I’ve been extremely impressed by the guy I’ve been communicating with on this – he is very professional, thoughtful and cordial. I’ve been pushing him to look at the fillers and source of the dried thyroid was well as just the T3 and T4 levels, but we’ll see what they actually do. I’m beyond pleasantly surprised that they are even conducting an investigation which is way more of a response than I expected when I filled out the online complaint form – like Nohan I assumed that was a waste of time, but I felt like I had to do it after having the bad reaction again and I’m really glad I did. I did hang onto enough of the new bad batch and my old good stuff to have my own analysis done if I want down the road, but I would probably rather just take the old ERFA – it hurt to even send 7 pills of that away for the testing.
ThyroGold is already out there and is the grass-fed NDT you describe….
Nohan
I have thought the same thing and even looked for a “recipe” in old books as I have relatives and friends raising organic beef and pigs.
I read on a forum several years ago that a woman was making it and commented that the measuring had to be very precise.
I’m OK with lactose so am going to get some compounded at drug store in Kelowna, as the pharmacist is on board to bring it in from PCCA.
Alissa
I want the insurance coverage which is why I would like to see better prescription options that are consistently available. I’m also not so sure ThyroGold is organic – just grass fed/pature raised – and it sounds like you have to take quite a few capsules of it – I’d like something more potent.
I don’t have a huge issue with lactose so I will go the compounding route too for now. There are several pharmacies in Vancouver that stock it so no special order is necessary. I just thought I would look for something lactose free since I do generally avoid it along with soy and corn, but not as much a gluten which is a much bigger problem for me. A few of these pharmacists I’ve been talking to also did not realize there was so much lactose in the powder so there were grateful I brought that to their attention.
Actually no, many people on ThyroGold are doing well on only two 150 mg capsules. If they end up needing more, they can move to the 300 mg capsule, etc.
Alissa
That’s good to know and I may try it at some point, but I do want the medical supervision and standing order for labs. I’m afraid my doctors – at least the endo who’s been prescribing the NDT for 8 years – would drop me if I went that route. He’s getting old though and will be retiring before too long so I’ll have to find someone else. Naturopaths are ok, but can they get spendy fast and I don’t like to use them for things that should be covered under the provincial health plan. I have yet to find a regular MD/family doc that is comfortable prescribing the NDT. There is the prescription insurance issue too – I’m used to paying $4-5 CAD for 100 days of ERFA so I kind of get sticker shock when looking at other options.
I hate the idea of all the NDT in North America coming from American Labs. I did not know that and it seems like a very precarious situation – no wonder there have been shortages. Monopolies are never good. I think there really needs to be an alternative for compounding without lactose – I was shocked to find there isn’t. I am going to see what I can track down or get produced for myself and look into the regulations involved to get it to the distributors like PCCA & Medisca.
Alissa
I found a compounding pharmacy that gets their NDT from New Zealand with no fillers. I’m getting capsules with just the pure thyroid and vitamin C. If you have an aversion to lactose and/or feedlots, keep asking around and be persistent – you’ll find someone that already has or is willing to get what you want, especially when they know you’ll be a long-term repeat customer. This stuff is not cheap though – I hope it’s worth it!
Nohan
Good Work!!!
Is it a chain pharmacy or privately owned? I’m in the Interior so am limited in choice. I’ve been phoning independent ones, but no luck so far…just PCCA.
Let me know….and maybe they will mail prescriptions…..I’ve had that before…
Alissa, I’ve been following your posts about Health Canada doing the testing, and I want to thank you for the work you’re doing. I don’t have the same energy as you do, at this time, to do a lot of leg work. Hopefully Health Canada will also test the new ERFA for any sort of contaminants such as ‘Round-up’ or similar toxins. I’m wondering if that isn’t the problem with the new ERFA, and perhaps the fillers they are using now are not as clean/pure as the old ERFA.
I’m in Canada, and my options are dwindling. I’m having a compound pharmacist make up some ndt with just potato starch to see if I can tolerate that. My last try was ndt with glycine, but the glycine won’t work for me because I found out it metabolizes to oxalates in the body. Thyro-Gold doesn’t work for me because of the added ingredients. Nutrimeds has changed their formula because their source for New Zealand hormone has retired. Plus, nutrimeds isn’t that strong. I have a few old ERFA tabs left, and some nutrimeds, but I’m severely under-dosed.
About the compounded, I’m wondering if the problem isn’t also the ndt that is available right now. I had a reaction to the glycine/ndt combo, so once I try the ndt/potato starch combo, I’ll know if it’s the ndt because I’ve tolerated potato starch for 20 years now. I’ll know soon. After that, I really have no option but to be un-medicated.
I’ll report back after I try the potato starch combo. I’m also very interested in hearing any Health Canada updates you might have. Thanks for the link to Kripps pharmacy, too.
Alissa
I was wrong about the Kripps compounded NDT not having any fillers – it does have dextrose, potato starch, and microcrystalline cellulose in addition to the NDT from New Zealand and I then had that mixed with vitamin C. They would not divulge their source for the NDT in New Zealand, but I did find out the T3 & T4 content. It has slightly less T4 (33.4 mcg/grain-62.5mg) and about the same T3 (8.7 mcg/grain-62.5mg) as the ERFA. It is small mom & pop pharmacy and the only one I found that uses NDT from New Zealand so it could dry up if too many people look to them – I really thought twice about even saying who it was. Everywhere else that I inquired got the American Labs NDT via PCCA or Medisca and it all had that lactose that I didn’t want. I too have wondered if something wasn’t off with he NDT itself, but it seems like plenty of people are doing ok on it so it must be just some of us that are sensitive to something that wasn’t there before. The Roundup they dump on the Monsanto GMO corn & soy is really scary and pretty much all commercial pigs are fed that these days. New Zealand never allowed that stuff in. I’ve only been taking the compounded kiwi NDT for a couple days so it’s too early to tell, but I am trying to stay hopeful since I’m pretty much out of other good options too.
I also hope Health Canada does test more than the active ingredients (T3 & T4), but that might be all they do. I will look into getting my own analysis done somewhere if that’s the case since I did hang onto enough to have tested. It doesn’t really matter though – I know I can’t take it anymore. Aside from the hypo symptoms there was something else happening muscle and anxiety wise with me that was very unusual and definitely not ok. Health Canada just received the samples last Wednesday (Apr. 6) so I think it will be at least a few weeks before I hear anything else from them. I will post here when I do.
Inhouse does require an rx and no more credit cards. I had to pay with ck info but it all went well. You are correct that Inhouse does not specify that thyroid meds are rx on the website but… it is in their question/answer section. Once that rx is on file tho, you are good to go.
If you have or can get an rx,, universaldrugstore also sells Erfa and Naturethroid very reasonably. Universal also requires an rx.
Thanks to Mike re crushing/chewing ERFA. I’d love to hear others weigh in. I did try chewing..didn’t see any difference. One thing I noticed was that all my recent ERFA was NOT shipped in the manufacturer’s bottle. In-House pharmacy appears to have ERFA available in manufacturer’s bottle…and doesn’t seem to require a prescription…anybody know? thought I’d try Mike’s advice and man bottle..one last time..
I wanted to provide a follow up from my post of a few days ago. I had developed severe hypothyroidism after starting on my latest batch of ERFA thyroid, so I decided to experimentally crush the tablets before consuming. To do this, I just used the crusher compartment of a pill splitter/crusher to grind them into a fine powder, though of course a mortar and pestle or any number of other things would work fine. From there, I put the contents into an empty gelatin capsule before taking. The result: my hypothyroidism vanished completely and rapidly. Body temps returned to normal and I feel like my old self again.
Consequently, with an important caveat I tend to believe the ERFA rep who said that testing showed the product was fine. From a sheer tablet potency perspective, the assertion is probably true. Based on my experiment, the tablets likely do contain the usual amounts of T3, T4, T1 and T2–at least in the lot that my current supply was bottled from. However, there must have been a recent change with the tablet fillers or binders since thoroughly crushing the tablet bypassed the problem for me. Whatever changed in the formulation was definitely inhibiting the absorption of a substantial portion of the thyroid hormones. Perhaps some of it was getting locked up and passing right through the body. Who knows? Whatever the case may be, crushing it into a fine powder eliminated the problem for me.
This is good to know. It’s exactly what we discovered when Armour was changed in 2009—that it worked better if patients chewed up the tablets. Glad you figured this out!
I’ve been on Erfa for 4 years. I was on synthroid before then. I have hashimotos. Since January 2015 I haven’t felt well. I take 90 (3 30s). In April 2015 my tsh was 3.92. I was concerned but my dr asked me to not drink coffee in the morning to see if it was absorption issue. Well I just had my tsh tested again and it’s 6.92. No change other than maybe a suspect bunch of thyroid now that I’ve found this board….
I haven’t felt well for 2 years but I chocked it up to female issues (low iron due to nightmare cycle for which I had a hysterectomy in April 2015)….but now I wonder how much could have been due to lack of meds!!!
Sarah, it is true that there have been batches of Erfa that seem far less effective than they used to be. But…do know that 90 mg is not an optimal dose for the vast majority of folks anyway. i.e. you have most likely been underdosing yourself for two years, as well!! Read this page on how we find our optimal dose of NDT: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Sarah… As Janie indicated, you may well have been under-medicated but…. I have taken 90 mgs for years and years and my tsh is always 1+/1- so we are all individuals with different requirements. If Erfa is the culprit, it is easy to verify that by taking another NDT brand, maybe WP or Naturethroid or NP and see how you feel on one of those? I do hope you are addressing your low iron (if shown with labs) since it can be difficult to stabilize NDT dosages if iron is subpar.
Tyra, you have to be careful implying this is just about being “individuals with different requirements.” Yes, there are so many areas that each person has different requirements, different needs, etc etc. That you are correct. But after observing and collecting thyroid patient feedback for 14 years, which is what STTM is focused on, it’s pretty clear that yes, the majority are not optimal at 90 mgs and continue to have some symptoms of being undermedicated as Sarah has indicated. Are there exceptions? Yes, but when the majority shows that, Sarah needs to look into that first. We also have seen repeatedly what constitutes “optimal”, and the Natural Thyroid 101 page explains that. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
If I were Sarah, and based on years of reported experiences and wisdom, I would study the above page to see how patients find their optimal dose, and consider another brand with that information since Erfa has been problematic for many.
Just thought I’d add a comment here about my experiences with ERFA thyroid. I’m a male who has used some form of desiccated thyroid for 20 years–originally Armour and then ERFA in more recent years. I’ve taken between 2 and 3 grains daily at various times over the years with good results. My current ERFA thyroid batch, which is lot # LF03727A and has an expiration date of 4/2017, is definitely under-performing.
In recent weeks my waking basal temp has suddenly run a frosty 95.1 – 95.4 degrees Fahrenheit! I’ve made no changes other than getting a new supply of ERFA thyroid. It’s been a complete thyroid crash. I’m careful with my nutrition and supplementation and my yearly extensive labs bear this out, so it really has to be the thyroid medication itself.
I wondered why I was feeling so poorly, cold and achy lately, so I started taking my temperatures and realized I wasn’t even making it beyond 96.5 degrees throughout the entire day. It was as if I was taking little or no thyroid at all. Normally, when taking desiccated thyroid, I’ll hit a peak temperature of about 98.2 or 98.3 sometime in the late afternoon, so this was definitely sub-normal for me.
Last night I remembered I still had a few custom compounded 15 mcg 12 hour timed-release T3 capsules around. It was a prescription filled back in 2007. The relief I started feeling after about two hours of taking one cap was immense. The T3 fortunately had still retained its potency around nine years after formulation. I felt a welcome sensation of warmth and relief beginning in the heart area, which gradually spread out to the rest of the body. Within a few hours I felt human again. My body temp rose from 95.5 to 98.0.
I’m going to experiment with crushing or increasing the 3 grain ERFA dosage because I think that, for one reason or another, it’s effectively a lot lower than actually stated on the bottle. Unfortunately I stocked up a couple of months ago and have three more bottles of 100 tabs filled from the exact same lot number. If I can’t get results I’ll have to switch to something else.
You know, a thought occured to me, why can people not make their very own NDT? I mean, once a healthy “donor” is found, what is to prevent anyone from taking that donors (porcine-pig) thyroid and dessicating (drying out to near zero moisture content-at which point I assume it turns to a powder?) it themselves? I don’t have the background to inform anyone in this process, nor exactly what the process is, how to preserve the dessicated product, figuring out dosages, etc…, but my guess is, it is not rocket science, and should be a fairly easy process, albeit a tedious one! While I am no genius, anyone with a modicum of common sense should be able to do the research necessary to make their own, and at a far lesser cost than any of the companies stated above!! As far as dosages, start very small and work your way up to a tracked and measured dosage that works best for you. This takes the hanky right out of the pharma’s spanky!!!! Bet they get right then! My guess is, these companies have all been approached and been told to change their formula to a non-working one, or else! This, coupled with a boat load of hush money, would go a long way! Speaking of hush money, my guess in this regard is that they are under gag once they make the deal with the devil!! For shame, how can they sleep at night? Of course, this is all mearly conjecture on my part, but given the vast sums involved, associated with ill thyroid patients versus “healthy” thyroid patients, I would not be surprised if my theory (hypothesis?) isn’t correct!! I am simply amazed at how often patients are more informed and knowledgable on this subject than their very own doctor(s) are, the individual that you are going to for answers in the first place!!!!! Astounding! Even more amazing is the fact that a lot of these doctors still strut around like they are smarter than us, or at least do their best to project this image, such that their confidence is not completely destroyed. Pitiful!! I have other thoughts as well, such as bromides and iodine being antagonists towards one another as a possible reason for Iodine allergy……., but I will post these in relevant blogs. My Fiance has had her thyroid removed because of these inept quacks that call themselves men of medicine! I will not rest until I find the most synergetic solution(s) that I can, to make her life as easy, healthy, and uninterrupted by this man-made (for the most part) health issue, as I possibly can. Why do we even need doctors, other than for emergencies, when we are forced to do their job for them, either because they just simply don’t know what they are doing, or have simply “sold out” for prestige and money. EVERYONE needs to shame these people every time they let ignorance or mindless parroting slip out of their mouth!! They will will either quit the profession, run out of patients still willing to be their meal ticket (to their own detriment), or they will wise up, start doing their own research and analysis, and start doctoring as they should have been all along! Doctors; do not fear the AMA, your peers, or any other strictly for profit (over patient care) agency! If you start doing the right thing, you will be revered and truly making a difference! Oh, and you’ll have no shortage of patients!!
I am also in Canada. Quite frankly, I have just about given up hope. I have had 3 different endos, with 3 different protocols and views on the whole Thyroid mess. Not to mention a couple regular MD’s. They are all brainwashed to believe what they believe as gospel, as they do not live it on a daily basis. They just follow what they are fed, rightfully so. They don’t actually care and we are all just uninformed whiners.(in their eyes) I am sick and tired, literally, of being a guinea pig for their research. This is all that I have been for years. My life goes down the drain, while they sit back and profit anyway. Do I sound bitter? hmm..This should not be rocket science to fix! I suppose it’s called Medical” Practice” for a reason. There is strength in numbers. Is there any way that some of us can get connected in our Countries and towns, to actually be able to monitor and support one another. We are all living the same life of misery, basically alone. Not that I am not thankful for this board as it literally saved my life. I learned on here to ask for the TPO test which showed my levels at +6,300 when it should be <3. Then I was casually told that I had Hashimotos. Relief…So, I"m not really lazy and crazy as I was told most of my life, with only TSH tests? I did all of those uppers and downers and anti-d"s for nothing? Such a trusting soul (fool) I used to be. Knowledge is power, for sure. However, we remain powerless in this sense without the stamina to help ourselves for the most part. I believe that this is a huge reason for the sudden mental health crisis. My opinion..however, it is fairly an educated one. (sorry no plaque on my wall…lol) Love to you all…any thoughts? Sorry for the rant.
I was one of the posters from way back in the beginning who instantly began having problems with ERFA once it was reformulated (or whatever they did with it). I’m in Canada, so haven’t had many alternatives, and I react badly to chemical T4 hormone. I also reacted to ThyroGold because of the other ingredient(s) (coleus). I’ve tolerated nutrimeds wonderfully, though; but my tsh is now 54.76… so, I clearly need something stronger. Has anyone in Canada had any luck using Health Canada’s Special Access Programme to get ndt from the US sent into Canada? It’s a form your doctor fills out.
Wow, Dee, I did not know about this form and that we can actually get US NDT this way. I too would love to know about this and if anyone had any luck. I would serious consider it.
I will keep an eye out here.
thanks!
thanks for the link, that was helpful. I too left armour after all the changes and won’t go back. Have been happy on Erfa for 5 years but the cost is expensive as I would get other drugs made in the uS covered by insurance. Does anyone’s insurance in the US cover it? It seems like Acella or Naturethoid seem to be a good bet? Are they avail in US pharmacies?
Erin..the NP by Acella and Naturethroid by RLC Labs are both available in the US but stock can vary from pharmacy to pharmacy. You often have to call and see what they stock and have them ck to see if they can order one of them for you. My husband takes NP by Acella. When we called our local pharmacy, they said they didn’t have it. I asked them to ck their order forms and sure enough. They could order it special for him. So that is what we did.
Whether or not one’s insurance covers thyroid meds, it all depends on the insurance company and their parameters. Some will cover Naturethroid, for instance, for little money but, if you want another brand, you may end up paying $ 25 – $ 35.00 each month. Sometimes, especially with coupons, you can end up paying a little less if you pay cash and bypass the insurance company altogether.
ps. If you have a prescription for natural thyroid meds and are considering using Naturethroid, I just checked Universaldrugstore.com’s website and they offer Erfa and Naturethroid. The Naturethroid prices seem extremely reasonable (also free shipping now). I ordered from them for years for my Erfa before that got squirrely. You just email them a copy of your rx after you place your order.
I don’t know of any prescription thyroid med that isn’t porcine (pig) based. But since you were doing well on the old erfa couldn’t you just try another prescription thyroid med like NP by Acella or WP by RLC Labs?
Nutrimeds makes a bovine based whole glandular that Janie says isn’t as strong as the Thryrogold that you have checked out. I think the dosing would be similar to the instructions given on the Thyrogold website.
Thanks to STTM I was educated well and switched to Erfa 60mg . It was big difference ! ErFa saved me for good 7-8 yrs, but in late 2014 my symptoms slowly returned. miserable again !
My first option was switch to Thyrogold … After some detailed reading I discovered that Thyrogold contains FORSCOLIN ingredient which intefer with B450-hepatic enzymes ,as the result of this inteferance is increased deposition of fat in liver cells. I am already was diagnosed with fatty liver!!! I don’t know what is other option for me to switch?? I prefer bovine NT. Any advice ?
Thank you Tyra! I’ ll continue my research regarding bovine NT. Eventually , I choose one of them.
I feel so disappointed with Erfa… So many yrs I was ok always used Univarsal Drag store pharmacy
And cost me $85 for 10 months supply . If anyone tried to call Erfa and to express our concern about inconsistency in batches?
If you read some of Janie’s old posts, you will note that Erfa has been contacted by more than a few folks about their ‘bad’ batches but Erfa keeps insisting that all is right with the world..lol..
I used Universal also for years and love their service and the Erfa I got from them. They are also selling Naturethroid at a very reasonable price (I just checked their website.) If you already have an rx on file with them, maybe ask if they will send you a smaller quantity of Naturethroid (just to try it out?) instead of Erfa before you give up on the prescription NDT altogether?
Hello. I am new to this website and I have a few questions. I am reading a lot of complaints about Erfa and I am wondering, which brand is the best replacement for Erfa: WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid or Thyrogold? Can anyone tell me what kind of results they have received from WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid and Thyrogold? Why is Thyrogold so different from all the others? I saw Tyra’s post about it being good and I read about it on Janie’s website but what make the Thyrogold so special? Does anyone know the names of reputable pharmacies that sell any of the above to overseas clients? Please provide websites for the pharmacies. I know I am asking many questions but I am trying to do research and someone told me that here is a great place to start. Thanks in advance.
They all work. Everyone just has their favorites. You just have to make sure you understand how to find your optimal dose, which is explained here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 🙂 Google ThyroGold and you’ll find its website for ordering.
Mariella… I take WP and am having good luck with it after being an Erfa user for years. My hubby (recently diagnosed with hypo) takes NP by Acella and he is doing great on that. The different rx thyroid meds all have their different ‘fans’. Maybe it is the fillers in the different brands that some don’t respond well to?? We all have to try the different ones and see which ones suit us. We are all different and can react differently to the same meds.
Thyrogold is NOT a prescription med. It is a whole glandular and is far weaker than the prescription meds. Here in the states, it is treated as a vitamin or food supplement. I think for some folks who are just barely hypo and don’t have iron or adrenal issues, it can meet their needs. For the rest of us who need the concentrated prescription meds, it is only a faint shadow of the ‘real deal’. There are groups, especially in the UK, that you could join and ask about the USA suppliers to overseas users? They would probably be more familiar with what companies or vendors ship to foreign customers. All ‘main street’ type pharmacies that sell thyroid meds in the USA do require prescriptions.
There isn’t anything particularly ‘special’ about ThyroGold and NutriMeds (another whole glandular) except they do have a good track record at helping some folks with thyroid challenges and they are sold ‘over the counter’ (no prescription required). I am sure you can google or do an internet search for these two products and see if they ship overseas as Janie said. I think the Nutrimeds are available overseas. You might ck Amazon UK?
Believe it or not, ThyroGold isn’t far weaker. It’s pretty equivalent to prescription meds. NutriMeds is far weaker, yes, but if enough is taken, it seems to work.
Thanks for the correction, Janie, about ThyroGold. I tried it back when Armour was reformulated and there were shortages all over the country and it did little or nothing for me. But… that was just my experience with it. And I am not a heavy doser of NDT. I have been stable on 90 mgs for 20 yrs. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time?
By the way, this site saved my life back then. I learned from STTM about how to have my NP write my rx for NDT (for desiccated thyroid .. no brand name … and that Erfa was available in Canada and about Universal Drug. I was a happy camper until Erfa messed up. So, thank you, Janie.
Well, doesn’t surprise me if you didn’t feel it did much for you. There are always gray areas in everything I report on! But I can say that for the vast majority who report their experiences on it, ThyroGold seems to be just as effective as prescription NDT if raised to find one’s optimal dose.
Really glad STTM helped you! That was my purpose in compiling it, so it makes me smile. 🙂
Trisha
Really confusing & frustrating no matter how well informed one is! I WAS on ERFA and ready to reorder last year until all the initial bad news started. I wasn’t going to chance spending top dollar for ERFA to have to throw it down the drain, and then have NO thyroid medication! So, the Armour had been tweeked & improved in 2012 after their disastrous reformulation, which I am on now. So, HOW am I doing… all things considered (labs, iron, knowing NDT and my body) – I’d say okay to fair, but NOT soaring or at my best. Some days seem a struggle. But… I DON’T know what to do, doctors & money aside! ERFA still seems unresolved!
ARMOUR though doable, isn’t what it use to be! NATURE-THROID is okay, but I’ve never seemed to do really well on it the 3-4 times I’ve tried! I have not been on WP – but I have NOT really heard any reliable comments about it or much about it at all really – have you? ACELLA gets great reviews but it seems hard to get at times and over the last 3 years, it seems like it’s been on back order at least 4 times; so it’s supply seems unreliable if not difficult! Oh, and I tried Thiroyd for two months and that was a disaster!
Any WISE feedback is greatly appreciated. I am stateside. Thank YOU!
Trisha – your story sounds like mine. I went on Armour on Nov13. 6 months later had rapid heartbeat issues but they passed. My biggest complaint on Armour had been abnormal weight gain, puffy face and brain fog, but i felt better than on Synthroid (headaches, liver issues, etc). 6 months ago, I switched to Nature Throid and now again I am having rapid heartbeat, headaches, tinnitus, high blood pressure….and still no weight loss with exercise and diet and puffy face. I am debating whether to try Erfa? Something seems to always happen at the 6-month mark….is that when steady state is reached? So frustrated and now reading all these comments, I’m not sure what I should be on! I keep trading some symptoms for others.
Marla, sounds like you haven’t been raising NDT high enough…and you may have developed an adrenal issue on top of that. NDT is the one to be on, but you have to know how to use it. Check out this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thanks Janie. My new doc wants to go to compounded T4/T3 thinking I may be getting too much stuff in NDT I don’t need? She is sending me for a ton of labs beforehand though.
False. Thyroid patients on soared on prescription NDT for over 100 years just as it is! Read this and be prepared to guide your doctor: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 as well as Chapter 2 in the revised STTM book with more. Important for you to become informed and prepared to guide.
Lisa R.
Hi there,
I changed from Synthroid to ERFA 3 years ago. I noticed the difference between “old” and “new” pills but just in the aspect, not in the effect. It’s still working perfectly well on me.
Concerning the smell, I think that maybe the pills are compressed harder than before so there is less smelly powder in the bottle…
Just an idea.
Yes it’s definitly good to read this 🙂
And I agree with the link compression/powder/smell
I find the pills easier to take now even if they take more time melt if taken sublingually.
Perhaps I shouldn’t say this but……..I am still not coping with ERFA. I decided to drastically cut my dose and cut it right in half with the view to going up really slowly…almost 2 months later and I cant get above half my original dosage without terrible horrible migraine with visuals et al…just the same in fact as when I used to try to take all the different brands of levo…so I’m wondering if, just maybe someone’s simply chucked in some synthetic stuff for whatever reason. Maybe as suggested to ‘prove’ the natural ones dont work, or even a response to complaints that symptoms were returning on various dud batches over the last few years. The way I’m feeling is so very like when on levo I simply cant think it can be anything else and I am so disgusted and disappointed about this. Still struggling, putting on weight and feeling completely rubbish. !
Jenny, it definitely appears there may have been some odd batches last year, but each individual also has to rule out if their issues are caused by a cortisol problem or low iron instead. Read this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thankyou…I’ve addressed most things and am quite sure that this started with a new bottle of pills. I’ve just ordered some lower strength with a much newer end date. I’m hoping things might have straightened themselves out.
I’m leaning towards Fatima’s theory! How can they possibly label the pills the same, when clearly they are not. It would be nice to know what we are putting into our bodies. (cough, viox, cough) I am using the few old ones that I saved in the freezer after I saw what happened with the Armour. I am too afraid of the new ones.There is only one truth and we are not being told it.
Wow….this explains a lot of symtpoms…I noticed these pills don’t taste as bad as they used to….thought it was just me. Who owns Erfa? I sniff out big pharma trying to “prove” natural doesn’t work so everyone is forced to use synthetics…..thoughts?
Fatima, Erfa is produced under the control of the Canadian government. Canadians can only be prescribed Erfa…. no other NDT product to the best of my knowledge. Of course, if Big Pharma is behind the Erfa in some indirect fashion, then your theory may have some validity..
I’ve been on Synthroid for 11 years and just discovered I’m allergic to it so my Endo started me on Erfa today. I’ve been reading up on Erfa and sincerely hope it works for me without issues because I’ve had a thyroidectomy so my options are limited.
Janie,
I am so upset that I can’t sleep. I came across an old bottle of Erfa from 2009.
There is no comparison in smell! The 2009 bottle smells like bovine and the 2015 bottle smells like synthetics. Clearly, the formula is different. Can anyone else attest to this?
Yes I did notice the differnt smell and appearance of Erfa sometime in late 2014. I continue to give it a chance but it is different and I always get enraged and go back to synthetics which are not working either. When I switched to Erfa in Sept 2012 I gradually went up to one grain and then 1 /12, 2, up fo 2 1/2 grains. I lost nearly 50 lbs of hypo weight. Something really bad started in late 2014 and the pills did not work. I thought it was my diet when I regained 30 lbs, but it’s all on the waist now. I never had that issue before. I had eye pain and one lung infection after another and permanent diarrhea and skin conditions and brain fog….these were not issues for me before. Either the pills are weak and these are hypo symptoms or some toxin in the pills was hurting me. Right now on synthetics I just have the brain fog off and on. I hope to get my hands on Acella or WP – anything but the Erfa or Armour that rampantly harmed patients.
I wanted to reply to your comment about ‘baby fine hair’. Mine is the same over the past 6 months….I had no idea it might be related to ERFA. I have been on it for 12 years, and have had good months and bad months not knowing about this inconsistency wiith the medication. I have called my pharmacy several times to ask about the medication, if something was different and they said “No.” I am relieved to know that its not all in mh head. And since the summer my hair is falling out, and for the past year, I’m hot all the time. Not hot flush hot, just hot/warm.
Just wanted to note the older pills created some “dust” through friction in the bottle. The surface of the new ones don’t seem to do that. I’m not sure if/how they are “sealing” the new pills. Have they always used just pressure or some innocuous sealant?
I wonder where the previous factory was?
Just want to note also that my hair has become very baby fine. I assume it’s more a hyper symptom?
**My doctor gives me a prescription of 6x30mg/day so I am free to adjust my dose based on how I feel. Dr also gives me a low dose Synthroid prescription that I can supplement with. Maybe some of your doctors can do this? It can help with insurance issues if it seems the batch is not effective enough. If you need more then you’ve got it.
I def feel hypo and I had no idea erfa had changed anything. Now it makes sense.
Thanks for the info re Synthroid. My T4 is always really low, T3 really High and my TSH is non-existent even when T3 & T4 are low. I definitely feel hypo but then my hair issues seem to swing between hyper (fine) and hypo(wiry). My hair used to be insanely thick now I look like middle aged man. I’ve never had it grow back since starting treatment for Hashi’s hypo 8 years ago. Small Synth dose once/twice a week seemed to stop the fallout though.
It’s such a mystery. I also couldn’t lose any of the weight until I was given Dexedrine. I also have a severe scaby rash head to toe. Maybe gluten related? Maybe even erfa change exacerbated as it has become much worse within the last year.
Twee, yes, there seemed to be some odd batches last year. But when you describe a high free T3, that could also be pooling because of either low iron or a cortisol issue. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling It’s imperative for each individual to rule that out or not.
I’ll try looking into my iron and cortisol again. I have had both tested but both were done with standard blood tests. My iron comes back as borderline anemia. I believe, from previous reading here, that other types of testing is recommended. Thanks for the info!!
Note that you can’t go by those ranges!! And yes, it’s saliva you need to do for cortisol, NOT blood. Compare your results to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
tyra
Twee… Erfa used to be mfg in a factory in Belgium. Now they are mfg in Spain and that seems to be when the appearance of the tablet changed and the complaints started rolling in.
I also remember how ‘dusty’ the Belgium Erfas were in the bottle. I don’t know if it is the ingredients that have changed (the powers that be deny this vehemently) or if it is the way the Erfa is mfg now (harder coating??) but
something was/is different. That being said, some folks have done just fine on the new ‘Spanish’ Erfa but many
haven’t.
I have always chewed my thyroid pills. If there is no change in formula except the machines pressing them harder, there would be no change in effect when I chewed them up. But they don’t work the same – even the batches that I posted were good before. Did they lose their potency? I did fine on the new Erfa for short periods of time, a day or up to a week at a time, but no consistency. It was like the pills in one bottle were not even from the same batch. I realized that any testing will be useless if they pick one pill from a batch and assay it. Who is guaranteeing that every pill in a dispensed bottle is from the same batch? They could pick, say, ten random pills from a bottle, and test them separately, to be slightly more accurate and see if they are all from the same batch. I don’t even get how this is allowed to happen. Why can’t our pills be made in North America, with strict standards?
I think the testing and production standards are very high in all EU countries; however, there may have been changes made to the manufacturing process that are considered negligible by any country’s standards. For example, there are vitamins that test correctly in the lab but do not absorb well in the body if they are not encased correctly.
The Doctors are not ignorant or stupid when it comes to Thyroid treatment or options. It is with intent that they withhold the medication. You may be in a “referral racketeering ring” as I call it. Dr.s communicate and refer patients to other Dr.s they know will also not help you. Find a good pharmacy, ask them for a list of Dr.s known to prescribe desiccated thyroid, take it to you doctor and ask for your right to choose your hormone treatment or refer you to one from your own list. They get a little more cooperative when they realize that another Doctor outside of their “circle of friends” will see how they have neglected your symptoms and have withheld your right. Also, start a medical journal and log every appointment and make notes right in front of the Doctor. I have been doing this for years. My good Doctors understand and do not take it personally and any UN-Doctor will see that you are keeping track. Bring a supportive friend or relative with you who knows what you want. You can also contact the College of Physicians. Usually after I make the phone call and just explain what happened, without making a formal complaint, the UN-Doctor has a change of mind? Just out of the blue, no coincidence :-)8
Canadian. I had radio active thyroid when I was a 18. Killed most of my thyroid. Hypothyroid for 45 years took Levothyroxine then it stopped working, I have been on ERFA for 3 years and have struggled. The thing is one shoe does not fit all people. I take my thyroid med a.m. with water, no food especially no milk and I also take KELP or iodine drops. I also did a reboot of my intestinal flora. Absorption is everything and if your gut is compromised from poor eating habits you don’t absorb drugs and food properly. I have no problem on my Canadian ERFA the past year and feel great. I recommend looking to other causes why you personally are not responding well on ERFA. Once I revised my methods of taking the med. and my eating habits I am more than happy with the results. You need iodine to help absorb the ERFA. North Americans are low on iodine as our soil is ruined. Especially, if you have dumped iodized salt.
What is going on??? I have noticed over the past few months that about an hour after I take my ERFA thyroid Med’s I feel awful! Tired. Foggy brained. Achy. Nausea. I am now into my second refill so into a fourth month. I just found all of this info earlier today and it is so upsetting. I am going to head to a naturopath to see if he or she can help me. I don’t think my DR will listen as I had to plead with her to allow me to try Thyroid. I don’t want to revert back to Synthroid but what the H is a person supposed to do? I have tried to show empathy to my sputtering thyroid but today I hate it!
I know it is difficult if not impossible to get any other kind of natural desiccated thyroid except Erfa in Canada. But maybe you can check out the websites for Thyro Gold or Nutri Meds? In the States, they are classified like vitamins because they aren’t supposed to contain any T 3 and are considered ‘whole’ glandulars (much weaker than the prescription extract of desiccated thyroid) but… some folks have good luck with them. They aren’t cheap and some have to take quite a large dose (working up slowly with dosage) but maybe worth a shot? I know the Thyro Gold has dosage instructions on their website that I am pretty sure would apply to the Nutri-Meds. Nutri-Meds are available in either a bovine (cow) or porcine (pig) formula. Does Canada let you import vitamins from the US? If so, these should make it into the country as well, I would think.
I used Synthroid for 5 years and I finally found a good holistic doctor who prescribed ERFA Thyroid (I live in Canada and there are only ERFA).
I use Thyroid for 6 months, I feel much better, my blood tests are good, but I lose my hair a lot, while I never lost my hair with Synthroid. I have blood tests every six weeks and my doctor increase my dose based on my symptoms. I take 3 grains and I feel fine, exept for hair loss.
I never had a problem with my hair and no one in my family has hair loss problem.
Do ERFA Thyroid frequently causes hair loss problems?
I would not return to Synthroid, but I do not want to lose my hair at 34 years.
Having previously mentioned how I had gotten used to my latest bottle of ERFA, now am using a new bottle with exactly the same expiry date as before and also the same Lot number even…..I am about to stop taking them altogether as for over a week I have been having ocular migraines almost daily, odd absent sensations, insominia, numbness in arms and more……These are Lot: LF03139B with expiry 10/2016. Quite extraordinary and I dread stopping as I will become useless and virtually unable to move. This is not in my head, it is horribly real and I am terrified of the consequences.
So, in a nutshell, it appears that there is NO clear, and certainly, no definitive resolution of the unprecedented problems with ERFA which began in 2014. Too bad, really too bad! It had
an excellent reputation, was the FIRST
choice after the reformulation of Armour,
and now… another once great NDT down the tubes! How manufacturers can turn a blind eye is beyond me!
I am so glad to have found this site – I have been having problems with ERFA purchased in June 2015, it is just not having the impact it did when I first started the treatment in December. I am up for a new bottle so I will get it and post whether there are any differences and info on the first and second bottles. This is really frustrating.
If anyone here has been taking any of the batches named in the addition to the post (bad/good batches added 08/2015) please add your comments!!! The more we find out, the easier it will (hopefully) be to see a pattern…!
Wow cannot believe Erfa is still having problems. I had to come back here to find out. I switched to Acella NP Thyroid when the Erfa script I had I think 2-3 yrs ago seemed like it was not working like it did. I like the NP Thyroid. I let it dissolve under my tongue. I feel better using it for some reason. The doctor wants me to take more but I want to take less. I want to go by how I feel. The dose he wants me take makes me hot, hungry all the time, I’m tired & I gain weight. If I take less I have more energy, not hungry all the time & have lost 20 lbs in the past year.
Been taking dessicated thyroid for a long time. . I was in the medical profession for 40 years till retirement. first used synthroid and then used dessicated. disliked synthroid. . hate feeling sleepy or taking afternoon naps . armour disliked. tried efra from canada and have had good results. heard complaints on users being sleepy and fillers used in pills. on a empty stomach usually early morning i take my efra pill and using two teaspoons crush the tablet in one spoon. first drink half glass of water then carefully deposit crushed pill on the tongue and drink a half glass of water. the pill crushes very easily always wait one hour before eating or drinking after taking the pill.. this has suited me very well and never take a midday nap and feel great. . since i use very little salt i take a sea kelp tablet for iodine daily 150 mcg. Of course I take a multiple vitamin daily as well. recently i ran out of efra pills and used armour for a week till efra pills arrived from Canada. the armour took great pressure to crush . what fillers do they use.? could this be a problem for armour pills to break apart for absorption into the blood Still prefer Efra never have sublingually tried the absorption method,.seems good for people with throat/swallowing problems. This is my experience, hope it helps others on natural thyroid.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I wil try crushing the tablet and waiting 1 hour before consuming anything other than water. I would love to no longer need a nap!!! Currently using ERF.
Having just read your comment about how you take your NDT Ken, I’m going to try the same thing. My last batch of ERFA seemed not to work as well as previously but I’m not atall sure it was anything other than a slight tweek in production which I needed to get used to. I am certainly rather better now after several months of persisting and after boosting all my vitamin and mineral levels. I’m sure also trying your method will help with absorption too. Thankyou. !
order efra from universal drug google them they are in canada and uk. i pay 22 USA dollar for 100 tabs. fax them your prescription . i get my cholesterol pills and bood pressure from universal in uk via universal drugs as well. read my comment on efra and taking dessicated efra pills. i live in floida love this pharma service.
Ken, will my Synthroid prescription work for getting Thyroid med in Canada?
My doctor refused to prescribe Thyroid …. Frustrating.
I live in Washington state, 3 hours from Canada board.
Thank you.
Also experiencing hypo symptoms on erfa Exp may 2017. Which exp dates are good? Or should I switch to Acella? Bummer this stuff was great for years! Why play w people’s health like this. So annoying.
how to be sure your tablet is absorbing. on a empty stomach first thing in the morning take two tea spoons and crush the pill in one spoon. drink a half glass water take the crushed pill on your tongue then wash down with a half glass water. do not eat or drink for one hour to let it absorb into the blood stream. if your on low salt diet take a sea kelp tablet 250 mcg each day for iodine. this very little so no problem.
I just reordered a new batch of ERFA Thyroid from The Canadian Pharmacy which I started taking on 7/24/15 & all my symptoms have come back. I got 60mg & 30mg for a total of 90mg. The 60mg look like the one in the picture above, all blotchy whereas the 30mg dont. I tried upping to 120mg with 2 60mg & felt worse. Tried 3 x 30mg for 90mg & still feel like hell every day. Also, The Canadian Pharmacy does not send the pills in the original ERFA bottles nor do the provide a Lot # or expiration date? Has anyone else had this issue recently or with pills from The Canadian Pharmacy ?
Same with our pharmacy…no lot # and not in original ERFA bottles. Just received call from the Doc who stated that my levels were too high and I should cut the pill or take 2. Seems very unscientific and yet I am planning to double the dosage as the pill crumbles when I cut it. Been on this product for 6 weeks, after having spent a couple of years on levothyroxine, then a 10 month period of no meds at all!
I decided to try NDT for the first time since being diagnosed nearly 14 years ago. Initially was treated according to TSH test irregardless of symptoms. Resigned to only work part time at the age of 27 years old. Finally managed to get an increase in T4 dosage which seemed allow me to function mostly with less need for napping. However, seemed to require a completely stress free existence in order to stay on a mostly even keel. The tiniest anxiety, like forgetting a word when chatting or get in a rush, would cause me to crash and mess up my circadian cycle, taking days to recover.
I got 100 tablets of Westhroid Pure back in March using the 2% dosage guidelines given in the ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Hypothyroidism’ by Ken Blanchland. He does mention the manufacturer and storage issues with NDT, and I did a search on the effectiveness of Westhroid (I was looking for Armour originally but the only website I found could get it was out of it). Unfortunately, I can’t remember everything after reading a book once.
The first 2.5 months were amazing until one day I seemed to be having hypo symptoms again. However, prior to this, I noticed the tablets changing colour and becoming sticky. I recalled the storage and temperature issues, and summer was just beginning. And living in England generally means no AC. I had about 30 tablets left so put them in the fridge and decided it was probably time to reorder anyway. Unfortunately, the website I used was out of Westhroid. Without thinking to check reviews, I placed an order for 300 tablets of Erfa NDT. I wish I had read this page first!
I feel worse than taking the weird, sticky Westhroid tablets. Feeling irritable, tired all day, brain fog, constipated, body aches, headaches, anxiety, loss of patience with 2 year old, and loss of the new productivity I was experiencing on Westhroid. Guess that I need to write these tablet off as a lesson learned and order a more effective brand.
I am having hypo symptoms since switching to a different pharmacy 5 weeks ago. The batches I am taking are: 60mg (Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017) and 30mg (Lot# 14J01, exp: July 2017). Anybody else having problems with these batches?
I’m going to start with Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017 soon (coming from Armour to Erfa), will let you know if I get more hypo on it. Hope not since I have 3 jars of that batch… Which symptoms do you have?
Hi Caroline, I have been taking the same batch (Lot: LF03831A – Exp: 5/2017) and experiencing hypo symptoms as well. I am quite worried if this medication really has what it says. I will switch to another brand ASAP.
I am new to Thryoid meds. I was told to purchase Erfa from the following website: http://www.antiaging-systems.com/
I received a charge on my credit card from China. Do you think Erfa could be producing these thyroid meds in China, and maybe that’s why we’re receiving weird batches. It’s well known that the Chinese will put anything they can into medicines to cut costs. Maybe we should ask Erfa where they are producing their medications.
In the mean time, I’m wondering where I can purchase good quality, legitimate desiccated thyroid. I was originally using nutria-meds, but someone told me this was not a good brand. What’s the best brand that is available without a prescription?
Hello Georges,
Dr. Knafo told us that Thyroid was made in Spain. Health Canada confirms it. Maybe Anti-aging uses a bank in China in order to reduce charges…
You didn’t say how you were feeling now that you are on Erfa. Better?
I am still very good on it and it’s been 5 years now so I hope you will be ok!
Cheers
I’ve been on erfa for 1 year now. I had been on the other stuff for 25 years and felt like sugar pills. I don’t see the difference. They’ve tested my adrenals, okay. I need energy. I need strength to continue this never ending battle. Doc says loos weight, I’ll send you to a nutrionalist… Why? I don’t have the energy to start. My blood test is in ‘range’. Oh, how I wish I could have a normal life in Ontario.
Leona,
Have you done tested adrenals? You may have a bad batch of Erfa or you may need to treat other things like adrenals and ferritin/iron.
take care
The problem is you are “in range” and that has nothing to do with ERFA. Read the TSH Is Useless page. It doesn’t matter what NDT you are taking, you will feel terrible when “In range”. That is why this site exists.
Hi, have you had a stool test? My daughter has been experiencing lots of problems with fatigue, unexplained weight gain etc. Turns out that her stomach and upper bowel inflammation are 2 1/2 times over the highest inflammation levels, hence the unexplained weight gain and fatigue etc. I think it is always paramount to treat the adrenals first and then start on thyroid hormone if needed at all but raised inflammation markers can have very similar effects to thyroid problems. By the way, the stool test is not available on the NHS if you are in the UK so you need to go to a private clinic – but trust me, after 11 years of searching what is going on with my daughter it was well worth the £250 plus consultation fee! She can now have a life again!
Just a quick, “no BS” update about the ERFA that I have. My above mentioned symptoms were absolutely caused by a particular bottle of ERFA. I have a newer bottle and am having no significant issues. HOWEVER, if I take a pill from the previous bottle, I feel sedated, my eyes are slow to react and other symptoms too. It’s almost as if that particular batch of ERFA contains Benadryl.
Thank you for this helpful information! to your health and good luck also…i am hoping this was just a bad accident, but then again am afraid…it’s not something I would wish on anyone-even my worst enemy. Being a thyroid patient is very very difficile!
I too have experienced a good batch, been completely fine, able to walk 1 hour a night etc, then started a new batch this week and wham! I literally wanted to go to sleep on my drive home last night. Pushed myself to walk and I am not even experiencing the overload of stress from work these days like I was on when I was on the good batch.
I am pissed!!! I purchased 400 pills this time and wont’ get any insurance coverage now on any further ones I buy for some time. Now I have to pay out of pocket to try another batch. When the hell is this going to stop!!!!
Anyone have any news on trying a newer ‘batch’ of Er-fa? It’s been over fourth month now I am not feeling well at all, and have gained a lot of weight, and am too tired for life.
I’ve been taking Er-fa pretty much since 2009.
Trying Acella brand now. I miss the old Armour, and now this!
Last fall I realised all my old thyroid symptoms were back. I saw that there had been a “bad” batch although I suspect there was no actual thyroid in what I had. I called Erfa and was asked to get the batch # which Costco did not keep a record of. My Doctor wrote a new prescription and I began to take those and have been for the last three months. The effect is not anywhere nearly as good as the old Erfa. I have dry skin, am constipated and am gaining weight. It is not as bad as before, but my last test showed I’m taking more thyroid than I should so I have cut back and will be followed closely but I sure wish the old formula was still available. Several others here in Canada are experiencing difficulties with their thyroid medication. Guess I too, need to change brands.
Yes, I am aware of the lab tests being useless. I go by my pulse which will speed up if my dose is too high. It comes back down when I lower the dose. I wonder what Erfa gains by changing the formula. Money for sure but I would pay more for the old formula. My sleep habits have changed and I just don’t feel well. Thyroid can be an amazing med when it works. It certainly changed my life and has given me a great 10 years. I began taking it and within two weeks thought I was having a good day. The good days never stopped until Erfa changed the composition of the pill. Sad.
Oh no, Flo, lab tests are crucial. It’s just the TSH which ends up being pretty useless once on thyroid meds. Sorry you had to experience the problems so many have with Erfa.
Nick
I’ve been on Thiroid for a few weeks and am feeling a lot better, and I mean a lot!
Yesterday they took blood for my regular thyroid check-up so I didn’t take the morning dose (60 mg) of Thiroid. I forgot to take it when I came back home from the hospital just before lunch, so took it at around 14:30. I would normally take the second dose (60mg) at 16:00 but decided to put that back until I went to bed. But not wanting to take another 60 mg that late at night, I got the ERFA back out and took a single 30mg tablet. Today I feel awful again, heavy, tired, and lethargic.
Goodness knows what they added to ERFA last year but it clearly affects some of us very badly.
Hi Nick….I think there may be contaminants as well, but did you see my post regarding my labs on the “new” ERFA? My FT4 was headed south, while my FT3 was ELEVATED as well as my TT3. I have yet to complain to ERFA about this as I’m not sure it would do any good, but I may. Clearly, their Quality Control is off. In some people (and more common in elderly populations), excess T3 can cause a depressed apathy. I call it my “kicked in the chest” feeling as I my chest feels very heavy, I feel like it is an effort to take a deep breath, and I feel very, very tired.
Angie, having a high free T3 with a FT4 heading south may be pointing more to pooling and/or a rising RT3, which means you could have either a cortisol or iron problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Janie.. I appreciate your input, but more recent labs, subsequent to this episode and back on the SAME dose of Nature-throid have my FT4 back up to .9 and FT3 and TT3 back to mid-range. This is neither an iron nor cortisol problem. This is ERFA and inconsistent meds…STILL.
In May I wrote about my experience with ERFA over the past year. In January 2015 I had gotten a “good” batch if ERFA, and I reordered in late April and received LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. I am sad to say that I again went hypo on that batch. Same old, same old that so many of us have gone through. I am tired of playing Russian Roulette with my meds, my health, my finances and my well being.
I asked my doc to change my script to WP Thyroid by RLC labs a few weeks ago. I am soooooo happy to say that I feel better than I have in 14 months since my original (old) ERFA ran out. I have great energy all day, and sleep soundly all night, and I’ve finally lost the 9 lbs I had gained over the past year. I’ve actually ended up with a nice problem: usually my energy for the past year has crashed in the early afternoon. It has not happened since I’ve been taking WP Thyroid. I wait for the energy crash, but it never comes. I’m afraid this means I’ll finally have no excuse not to clean the garage!
thank you for providing feedback when you feel better, it really helps those of us who have tried a different batch and feel off, start to wonder how can this be? Is it in my mind. I again was stupid and bought 400 pills of one batch when I was mistakenly confident that it couldn’t possibly be bad since I was feeling just fine on the previous one.
I am so very very sad, oh yeah and pissed, want my flippin money back as I now have to try yet another batch at my own expense not even covered by my drug plan.
I was diagnosed with hypothyroid in 2009/2010. I was put on synthtoid and felt awful … depressed. .. hot .. always sweating … gained 20lbs in 6 months. I would read forum after forum blog after blog in search of am answer. Than I found stop the thyroid madness. Here u found out about NDT so I went to see my doctor ge couldn’t prescribe UT cause he didn’t know about it. I went to a naturopath here in burnaby bc & paid the fees for free t3 and t4 test. Tham he put me on 30mg of NDT by erfa. After that bottle was gone I brought it to my family doctor and said look it was prescribed to me, and he refilled it. I’ve been with my partner since November 2007. We have been trying for a baby since February 2011. I started erfa NDT I’m September 2014 and i conceived January 31st 2015!!!
Yay … I love NDT
…same experience on Erfa 125’s….went hypo quickly after new Bottle of Erfa and different batch…aching joints, tingling and numbness, actually started fluid filling in ankles …I have no thyroid gland….After SOB I realized I needed to listen to my heart and noticed my mitral valve was not closing fast enough.(usually that is because of schlerosis, plaque built up another thing we hypos have to look forward to if we are not dosed well)..as well myxedema was clsoing in….I took additional thyroxine 100mcg,good multi and some high doses of C’s and B’s and drank a lot of water…..all symptoms resided in 48 hours…. taking synthetic T4 at 50mcg along with 3 Grains of Erfa to stay stable….today feeling like I need to back off the synthetic a little…..something else going on with this medication….Im in nursing now, but have years of medical research and laboratory science…..it’s almost as if there is something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself and not a formulation thing….perhaps some of it is not molecularly sound….this dessicated comes Freezedried….molecular shape changes happen with this and if temp and moisture are not absolutely controlled it will not be able to bind in the receptors needed correctly…..perhaps if they looked carefully at the structure of the hormones using SEM and bought some JAX mice with no thyroid glands and then tested between batches a difference might be seen…..probably only way to test for sure…as for me…I talked my doc into a look at all 4 valves to see what happened suddenly….valve sounds perfectly normal now…..Im pretty pissed this is happening to everyone and very grateful for this site….I dont allow any doc to take charge of my thyroid issues anymore…I will fly overseas if I have to get what I need…..I take all of my own bloodwork because I started in clinical labs as a clin tech 4 and know whatim doing….I actually feel hatred towards medicine for not supporting thyroid reality…F Bomb !…thankyou for allowing me to vent
I just can’t find a balance between relieving the hypo symptoms and sedating myself to the point of not being able to function. I have also noticed eye problems. My long sight appears to have improved at the cost of my near sight. And when I go outside into sunshine, my eyes water for a couple of minutes. The eyes are ‘gritty’. The tiredness is worse when the weather is warmer.
I’m still waiting to hear back from my endo regarding my request to change to WP. If he could feel how I feel these days, he would die of shame that he didn’t do something last year when I asked him about this. The whole issue of the ‘new’ ERFA is disgraceful!
I didn’t do any better on Thyroid S last year. Is Thiroid worth a try? – I am desperate not to lose another year of my life.
Nick hope you know you don’t have to buy a lot of Thiroyd in one go, you can buy it in small amounts at very low cost to try out, that’s how I tried both Thiroid and Thyroid-S. I have a jar of WP to try now in the hope it’s better than either of them and ERFA, but that was quite expensive as my endo won’t prescribe on NHS. I’d love to try Thyro-gold too, I think it’s important these days to know there are several that suit so this situation doesn’t happen again!
Hi Anne. I have found a tub of 250 x 60 mcg of Thiroid (around 27 pounds). Do they do smaller quantities than that?
Although we are all different, it would be interesting to hear of your experience with WP. I ‘m sure that all of us on here agree that it is a good idea to have some sort of back up. I must remember to choose a different illness in my next life! LOL
Anne
Nick, hope you see this can’t reply direct to you. I buy 75 or 150 at a time, helps when you’re trying to work out what to get, costs between £12 and £20. I’ll definitely let you know about the WP. And yes, a different illness next time, especially as the NHS still don’t agree I’m hypo and Dr S has died, so not a good situation!
Nick
Hi Anne, for some reason, the reply option is not available on our last two posts. Do you buy your Thiroid from a country beginning with T or V? 😉
Anne
Hi Nick, I buy it from a country beginning with T. 30 1 grains are $12, 60 I grains are $25, never been held up in postage and arrive quickly. There are cheaper options from other places if you want a larger amount but I found this a good way to trial Thiroid and Thyroid-S. Can’t send the link publicly, are you on TUK’s HU forum where they have Private Messaging?
Nick
Hi Anne, yes, I am Hypopotamus on HealthUnlocked.
Anne
Nick I’ve just sent you a PM there.
Angie
Hi Nick and Anne…I’d love to hear more about how you’re doing on Thiroyd a/o Thiroyd-S. I am on N-T and doing just okay..ERFA, before the reformulation, was perfect for me..I also am curious about how to order it…I am in USA. Thanks.
Sheila
I have been reading these posts regularly for a year now ever since I got a bad batch of ERFA in the Spring of 2014. I went hypo, with all the classic symptoms including: fatigue, weight gain, low energy, numbness and tingling in my extremities and the usual brain fog. The one symptom I simply could not ignore is that almost immediately I started having terrible stomach pains: like a huge gas bubble in my solar plexus that was so bad it would either keep me from falling asleep at night or wake me up. Until I read these posts, I was beginning to think I might have stomach cancer.
At my request, in May 2014 my doc wrote a script for NP Thyroid by Acella, but unfortunately it didn’t help. I continued to get more and more hypo but at least the stomach pain went away. So again at my request he wrote me another script for Armour. The Armour was ok, but compared to old ERFA, Armour just wasn’t close and it was like chewing chaulk.
In October I sent for Thiroyd from Thailand and that worked better that either NP or Armour, but still not quite there. If I couldn’t have gotten anything else, I could have stayed on Thiroyd in spite of the way it’s spelled. Based on what I read here about more positive experiences with some batches of ERFA, in mid-January, I called Universal Pharmacy in Canada and ordered a refill “IF” they could send me a batch with an expiration date of May 2017 since some people here said that they were feeling o.k. on batches with that expiration date. They were able to do that and I received LF03834A, expiry May 2017 and started taking that in late January and started feeling better almost right away. Since I went back to ERFA, I have had blood work done a couple of times and everything is in the optimized range.
I just refilled the script again, but because my doc was a little slow in getting my new script faxed to them in a timely way, by the time they got it, I could no longer get the same batch, and what they sent and I received today is LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. It looks exactly the same as the previous batch. I took one of the new ones for my afternoon dose today. I take two 60-mg tablets in the morning, and one 60-mg tablet in the afternoon. I will post again in two or three weeks, and update you all on how I am doing on this batch.
I hate all this switching around trying one brand and then another. I loved how well I felt on the original ERFA, and I am probably close to feeling that good again. My hesitation is probably a reluctance on my part to truly believe or trust ERFA as I once did, but I am truly hopeful that these variations between batches will recede into the mists of history. On a positive note, I have probably read more and learned more about thyroid and all the interrelated conditions that can impact us. I have also started taking more supplements and overall take better care of myself: getting enough sleep, and not pushing (stressing) myself as I was prone to do.
Last, thanks to all of you who have shared your experiences and the information about the specific batches and expiration dates of either the good or the bad batches. I am sure it has helped many other people besides me.
I switched to Acella NP thyroid when I became extremely hypothyroid on Erfa this fall. (I was on Armour for years until it was reformulated and it stopped working for me in 2009.) It took a couple months for me to get back to my euthyroid state but this past week I started on the latest batch of NP thyroid and it is not working. All of my hypo symptoms are returning. Is anyone else having a problem with NP thyroid- this batch i just picked up in late April.
I ordered that as well. In June picked up script, and took normal grain dose I have been on for years…not doing well enough in this one either! Still waiting to feel better on NP. Thinking of trying something else.
I think there is something else going on…and would not say here, but all I know for sure is that I was doing well with NP for almost two years, and then I decided to go back to taking Er-fa in November or December 2013. This is because of a few different reasons, but really, just because of convenience of having home computer to order my wonderful Er-fa again. I was better, and felt it too.
I was losing a normal amount of weight (gained from who knows what-maybe the NP?) and my energy improve. This was from month of 12 to month of 5 year 2014. Six month! I was from size 12 in December 2013 to a small 6 in May 2014…small change in diet, able to sleep enough, low level of optimized labs etc.,etc…(I am under-treated in my opinion, with other related health issues from this from many years of being under-treated, and with all of this, I was able to function in very stressful job, and very physical too on old Er-fa up to May 2014). I was doing all of this with my doctors supervisions.
Then I began to be very sick…lost more weight too, and I believe I became hyper thyroid…because I was down to a size 4 in September and this is not normal for me!….and I was not on any drugs, and it just happened….so, by the time November 2014 came around, I am aching, tingling feet, arms, tendonitis feelings, highly emotional, major fatigue, loss of memories, eye twitching, hair starting to fall…constipation too much! (my Dr said “wow you are very constipated” when she checked my pelvic exam) and so many other symptoms…so stayed on the Er-fa and getting worse, and worse…till February my tsh levels said 3 up from .09 in September (when I was size 4) so, my friend said prayers for me, and I looked up some information, and found all these problems here in June this year 2015.
My family member too was taking this medicine (Er-fa), and feeling the same ways as me. Same feelings for the months of December 2014 to March 2015 (our last order of Er-fa) to now. She is taking another brand now too, and bad symptoms are improving…
I really loved the Er-fa so, so much! It saved me when Armour did not help me years ago (2009) after they changed, and now this is happening! I think I will keep trying NP for now. And to answer your question finally-sorry!-Paula, no it seems to not be working enough, so I will just give it another few weeks time.
I want to ask this question again as I don’t see where anybody has answered it. I want to try the Nutri-Meds I ordered last month and am trying to find out what the equivalent dose is to 1 grain…Janie….anybody???
Hi, Angie. I think if you go to the Thyro-Gold website, they have information about whole glandular dosages compared to prescription NDT meds. Thyro Gold and Nutri Meds are similar products so that info should prove informative for you.
Tyra
Hi, Jay. When the Erfa fiasco hit last year, I switched to a different brand of NDT after trying all the different ones. I settled on the WP and am doing fine on it. I don’t take a big dose…. 90 mg per day.
Tyra
When they screwed up Erfa, I switched right over to WP thyroid and I’m doing great on it. I was on 1 and ½ grains of Erfa and started with that dose on WP. I had to increase the WP to 2 grains. My tests are good being at the very high end of freeT3, in the Middle of free T4. I have no thyroid gland.
I also had eye problems with the Erfa. Eye pain, blurred vision. Had to change my glasses prescription twice in a month. It wasn’t my eyes. It was the toxins in the pills or the lack of thyroid in the pills making me so hypothyroid my vision went. Plus the lovely Erfa, secretly changed, gave me random arthritis in fingers and toes, pins and needles in hands and feet, anxiety attacks, insomnia, sudden hypo spells and more. I finally switched back to Synthroid and Cytomel. It’s far from perfect but I trust my health will eventually be restored. I will not touch desiccated thyroid again until it is given rave reviews by everyone and proven to be safe and effective again. It was obvious to me that the Erfa was contaminated by something, or had the wrong mix of t3 and t4, since sometime last year when it stopped working right. Before that I was in blooming health on it.
The fact is that it IS proven that it’s safe and effective.
How do you know that there is toxins in the pill? Because I’m not intoxicated and I’m on Erfa for years now.
Just to be clear I’m certainly not saying that you don’t have health problems and I’m really sorry for you. I just think that Thyroid is used as a scape goat for everything…
I haven’t seen the proof that the newly manufactured ERFA *is* actually safe or effective. ERFA has only told us that the ‘concentration’ of T4 and T3 is the same. Personally, with the reactions I’ve had to the new ERFA, I can’t take ERFA’s word for it that the ingredients haven’t changed in some way – that is, either the ingredient(s) itself, or the source of the ingredient(s). It’s probably safe to say (at least I’m betting), that by changing the actual country in which ERFA is manufactured, that the new facility is probably getting their ingredients from a different source.
1) Erfa now makes me extremely tired the instant I take the pill. The tiredness is unlike normal fatigue or sleepiness.
2) Erfa now makes my eyes slow to react to the “eye test” (following a pen-light left to right)
3) Erfa related fatigue wears off by 8:00 PM
4) Erfa now makes me feel like I’ve been drugged
5) If I don’t take the Erfa, I feel fine. Obviously, I can’t avoid taking my meds, as my levels will plummet. I have no thyroid.
Some additional important information:
My dose remains unchanged for 25 years. With stable labs, well in the normal range. I’m neither under or over medicated.
The reaction I now have to Erfa HAS NOT affected my lab results. My labs remain perfect.
I’ve done well on my thyroid meds for decades. This problem is new, real and troubling.
Conclusion: Erfa still contains the proper levels of thyroid hormones.
Speculation: Erfa is contaminated with some other drug! Either via mistake, chemical reaction or intentional.
Contact me at N177CJ att gmail dott commm if you want to discuss the matter.
I agree with you. My reaction was immediate stomach problems and dizziness, cloudiness, a drugged feeling for about 8 hours. This is consistent with my reactions to several prescription meds. I don’t know if the problem is a filler or contamination with some other drug, and if the ERFA company insist that nothing has changed in the formula, then it’s something the new manufacturing facility has added either without their knowledge (do they have such autonomy?) or is a different variety of something that was already in the tablets. I’ve compared ingredients of all makes of NDT and the other drugs I know I can’t take, and the only consistent things that could cause this are the talc or the cornstarch. Both can be bad for some people. This is the only conclusion to be drawn from the fact that some people are still doing fine while other long-term users are not, when taking the same batch. I’ve ditched my prescription for ERFA, been taking Thyroid-S since last summer and have just ordered WP to see what that’s like so that I have a choice of at last two brands in case this happens again. I do think though that some acknowledgement should come from the ERFA company that some of us have been affected by something of which they are not to be aware.
If I reduce my ERFA dose, I am 100% more awake, the constant hunger pangs go away, the mild headaches are no more, and I actually feel glad to be alive. But of course, the hypo symptoms come back. When I increase the ERFA, I am back to feeling like I have been sedated.
I’m currently alternating between half and three quarters of my usual dose. I’ve also written to my endo (yet again) explaining all this, and asking for a trial of Westhroid.
I was one of the unfortunate ones to be affected by the reformulation of Armour, after having good success with it for several years. The new Armour caused a return of hypo symptoms, plus headaches every day. Then I went to ERFA and did well until my new supply in January of 2014, which is when many, I guess, are saying they noticed a problem. The “new” ERFA mostly caused me to be very tired and wasn’t as bad as the new Armour. Then I went to NatureThroid and did not do as well as on the ERFA, but I was getting by until recently. Now it seems the NatureThroid isn’t working for me, and muscle-testing says I am not absorbing it and that ERFA would be better. I’m reading about all the different batches and don’t know whether to risk it or not. I’ve been using Universal Drugstore for my Cortef and got the old ERFA from them. By the way, does anyone know if Armour has reformulated since their 2009 (or thereabouts) reformulation? And has there been any change in the NatureThroid, to anyone’s knowledge? Some of us seem to be ultra-sensitive to these changes, and it’s very frustrating to me. So if anyone knows a good batch number of the ERFA to TRY to get, could you please let me know? Thank you, and good luck to everyone.
I think that you are right Vonda, some of us are ultra-sensitive to something they put in these medications. And I also wonder if some of us get a tolerance to certain medications after a time on them.
I doubt we would all have got a tolerance at the same time Nick, I think the change in manufacturing plant is too much of a co-incidence. Something has either been added, of which fact ERFA aren’t aware, or one of the known fillers is from a different source. I’ve ordered WP to try out.
I searched for a long time for some evidence that the “new Armour” was reformulated back to the “old Armour.” Some say it has been; some say it has not been. There’s nothing official. Most say if they take it differently they can get it to work, such as chewing it or taking more. With reviews like this it doesn’t make me confident about ever trying it.
About the Erfa, I thought I had one good batch, but the next one (even newer) was bad. I am not playing Russian roulette with my health anymore. If you can’t be assured from batch to batch what you are getting, that is no way to live. My entire life was charting my dose and symptoms. I’ve given it up. I was boiling mad at manufacturers who just don’t care about the patients who are taking these pills. There is no accountability, no communication, no conscience. If you do find something that works, stick to it like glue.
Hello all,
I had been on Synthroid for many years because my dear Doctor confirmed without a doubt that it was the one and only medication.. -_-‘ I decided about 6 months ago to find someone else who prescribed me Thyroid from Erfa. I think I’m a brand new person since then. I can do sport, go out… feel alive and not just a zombie.
No side effects or “bad pills” for me…
Great news Emily, wish those of us for whom it suddenly caused such bad reactions could work out why. If you know it could you please let me know the batch number and expiry date of the ERFA you’re taking, then I can see if I can find the same lot, thanks!
Hi, I am going to a new dr this Friday and I am so confused on what to get him to prescribe me…armour? erfa? nt? I was going to order from my normal place but an afraid to! I emailed them asking for exp dates and lot #s.
Jennifer, they all work. But I think the most popular ones are NP Thyroid, Naturethroid, and WP Thyroid. There have been a few complaints about Armour since the company who makes them was taken over.
Thank you very much. I got natur-throid and erfa this last time I ordered. I have been dealing with hashi’s since 1996 & went through the armour reformulation ordeal! I knew something was up with the erfa with order before last. I am going to an integrative dr on friday and hoping he can help me get lined out. I also have adrenal disease (LOCAH) and am 44 so my female hormones are crazy! I had an ectopic in 2012 and have fallen apart since 🙁
Thx again,
Jenn
I have been on NP Thyroid, but have had increasing diarrhea problems. It is to the point that I am thinking of switching to Erfa or NatureThyroid. NatureThyroid is unlikely. I can only take it if my Doctors office an convince Insurance to cover it. I am good with the NP Thyroid, excluding the diarrhea and now irritable bowel syndrome. I am wondering if chewing the NP Thyroid will help with the side effects? Is there any advice on what to do in the case of diarrhea side effects? Perhaps I don’t have to change just yet. This has just been a increasing issue, so I am worried it will get worse.
Hi, Elisabeth. I am so sorry you seem to be having some sort of reaction to the NP Thyroid. We are all so different and reactions are hard to predict. Have you thought about trying WP Thyroid by RLC Labs, the same company that makes Naturethroid? The ‘P’ in the WP stands for pure. The WP only has 3 ingredients besides the Thyroid USP grade.
It is doubtful that chewing the NP will make much difference if the diarrhea is from the NP but it is worth a try. I am not sure about the ingredients in the NP. If you doctor is agreeable to changing your brand, if I were you, I would try the WP. That is the brand I take sublingually with no problems. Hubby takes the NP Thyroid by Acella with no side effects. Tyra
For the record, I had a complete turn around on my old pills, all my hypo symptoms went away, achy lungs and arms, digestive issue, energy, depression, cold, poor sleep, walked for 1 hour the other night with no issue, functioning amazingly well at work, not exhausted completely. I want to say that I live my life the same, don’t change anything like eating habits, exercise, sleep, don’t drink, don’t smoke, go to work, come home, exercise, all home made food, pure clean food, no refined sugar, dairy or gluten and so if Erfa thinks it’ people putting on themselves with their lifestyle, it’s not.
As of this morning, started the batch that Nick is on, LF30833A, and will report how I do on that one. After reading he was doing well, I called and got almost 500 filled (an not covered under my insurance as it is too close to my prescription being filled to the last one) so I wouldn’t loose that batch if the dispensed them to someone else.
All I can say is they had better work or else.
I will keep you posted.
Hi Nick,
I see you are on the batch that I just got filled and am hopeful is a good one, LF30833A. Are you still doing well. I’m hoping you can reply so I can buy more of this batch before they sell it out!!!!
Sorry for the delay in getting back here. I am no longer sure if ERFA is good or not, and this is why.
I was awful most of last year, almost comatose on most days, and hardly able to function most of the time. When the weather got much colder at the end of the year, I started to feel better, On reflection, that has been the case for a few years now. I don’t like the cold, but I do seem to feel ‘more alive’ in it. So, having felt better, I reported on here that the ERFA seemed to be working again.
Alas, as it got warmer, I felt much worse again, ridiculously tired, and wanting to sleep all day. I am annoyed that my endo has not got me some Westhroid to try, despite asking him to do so since last May. But I can’t upset him, as he may well put me back on thyroxine.
Last week, I was feeling fed up with the situation, and wondering what is the point of even taking ERFA is it isn’t working. So the next day, I reduced my dose from 120 to 60, and by mid morning, I was feeling a lot less tired. The hypo symptoms did appear to be a bit worse but at least I could get on with things. The next day I felt a whole lot better, and while I am nowhere near ‘well’ I have sailed through this last week feeling much better than I have for ages. I am actually down to a dose of 30 at present, and feel OK. I like actually waking up in the mornings at present, as before it was like coming to with the worst ever hangovers.
All this begs the question – what is going on? Is the ERFA actually ‘bad’ for some of us? Has my Hashimotos got better (I’ve been hypo for 30 years of more)? Has something else made me need less thyroid medication? I have been taking large amounts of sub-lingual B12 for the last four months. I’ve also taken olive leaf extract (anti-viral), and Oregano, with MasticGum which has helped my stomach considerably.
I’ve got an appointment with the endo coming up, but they did the blood tests before I cut down on the ERFA. I think I will just have to see if this is a strange ‘blip’ or if I continue to do OK with less ERFA. I will reiterate that I did fine on ERFA until the changes the last year.
My endo has told me that I am the only one of his 15 patients on ERFA who has reported any change over the last year, so it looks as though something changed in ERFA that only affects some of us. I know what the rest of you are thing – why me? I wish that I could find all of us an answer. 🙁
Hi Nick,
Thank you so much for answering me and I admit, a ton of things going on in my life that at the end of my work day have no energy nor do I want to even open my email let alone get on the computer to see how everyone is doing here.
I have endured a lot of additional work stress with the potential job loss etc and for the most part have been somewhat ok, perhaps have not been stress dosing my cortef enough but once things settle down hopefully soon then I can honestly assess how I’m doing.
I am wondering though if I too need to lower my dose of Erfa as it is now getting warmer and was feeling quite warm and jittery the past two days and may give that a try tomorrow. I never had to do that in the past though. Perhaps this batch that you and I are on IS a lot stronger than the other batches?
Here we go again, spent much of 2014 suffering on terrible batches, started a new batch early this year and had a substantial turn around for the entire time I was on it, for months, was even walking 1 hour a day and no fatigue, my achy lungs weird symptom and achy forearm symptom went away. Started a new batch a week ago and those symptoms have returned and walking a 30 minutes is the last thing I feel like doing, mild depression has set in. This just can’t be happening, I am already challenged severely at work, desperately need to function at my best or else fear losing my job and I feel myself sliding down the proverbial slippery slope back to hell.
Dear God, how can they continue to do this to us?
Janie, how is it that you have not been affected at all by these batches? I’m curious.
Sadly, I asked the pharmacy to fill a small amount for me to try and then before waiting at least a week, called and said, fill 500 pills for me. Then I started to go downhill, called to ask that since I had not picked them up, could I get them to fill another batch instead and they said no, so now I have to pay for not only a second dispensing fee but also for 500 of garbage pills and if I want to try another batch, then a 3rd dispensing fee along with whatever pills I try next.
This is criminal!
Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.
Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.
Sandra this is so depressing to read, I think many of us had hoped it was a glitch for just a while last year. Do you know the batch number and expiry date of these latest tablets? Also have you reported it to ERFA and did you get any sort of answer from them?
Hi Anne,
Yes I’m sorry that this seems to be the truth.
I did write the batch # down but in my proverbial funk this past week, misplaced it but if I find it somewhere, will surely report it here. I was almost in tears, just feeling overwhelmed, so unwell by all I had to get done and was not getting done before back to work tomorrow when I found 3 days worth of the old pills, immediately took them for my afternoon dose, my walk was still not the best but then guess what as the afternoon moved on, I managed to get some laundry done, kitchen cleaned up, vacuum my porch, banking, resume stuff I needed to do, got a chicken in the oven for dinner etc. Once again, what seemed like the impossible to accomplish this weekend, became effortless!
Then for the first time this week since starting that batch, I laughed out loud, smiled, felt alive and not like a pathetic shell of a human being.
So tell me, is it all in my head OR WHAT?! I think not. I mean it was a serious state I was in mentally as well and I have not been there since last year.
No I have not reported it to Erfa, do you think it will do anything at all? Janie?
Janie, you are so very very lucky to have the opportunity to buy that much at once and am so happy for you that you have not been affected. I am only aloud to have 3 months worth as my doctor wrote “take as directed” so my insurance company wouldn’t limit me to a month at a time.
The one I just got filled in hopes that it is good is 40 days worth. If it works then I will be calling immediately in hopes that they have not dispensed the rest of that batch to anyone else, if not then I’m back to the drawing board with trying another batch.
I will let you know how I make out, so the batch that I am going to try in 3 days when the good pills run out,
is LF03833A. If anyone is doing well on them, please let me know.
Sandra I think all batches which seem to be ‘off’ should be reported to the medical director at ERFA. It doesn’t matter too much whether they investigate (I doubt they will) but I do think that all complaints would have to be logged somewhere and it’s important that ERFA know there is still something wrong. It can’t be a reformulation because that would affect all batches, it’s something else going on either at the quality control stage or in the transportation or storage. I did find a report that the Belgian manufacturing facility was actually part of the ERFA company and was sold off, and that’s why production had to be moved to Spain. If this means it’s been outsourced to some other company then ERFA may not have the same control over some aspects of it. I also found a comment on Mary Shomon’s forum (About.com) from someone not doing well on ERFA that she’d contacted them and the reply said there had been a manufacturing problem last year but it had now been sorted out. I don’t think anyone here got a reply like that, I think most were told there was no problem.
Please let us know how you do on the latest batch and I hope they’re ok!
Hi Anne,
You are right, I will report it, just don’t have the batch number for that one. Wow it is unbelievable how they can get away with lying to us. I know that that information rings true with what my pharmacist said they told her what happened when she inquired about why it was on back order last year.
Hi Anne,
I seem to be doing ok on this batch, same one as Nick is on, hard to right now as I am dealing with a lot of stress but I do not have depression or the other hypo symptoms I had that week on the batch I did not have the number for. If something changes, will let you guys know.
Angie
Universal Drugstore was kind enough to provide me with a lot # from which my next ‘script of ERFA would be filled, if I chose to order. The lot # is LF04245A. Anyone have experience, good or bad, with this batch? Also waiting on Canada Drug to provide. I have to plug CD a little. They have been the most responsive on this whole issue and they were willing to refund me for the last lot I had had a negative experience with. They’ve earned my business IF I can get a good lot # from them.
I ended up with a different batch from the LF04245A. Lot LF03963A. THIS time I had labs drawn on 1 and 3/4 grains which is my usual warm weather dose. (My cold weather dose is 2 grains). Was on this batch for 4 days and my labs were as follows..note that I post my usual labs on this dose right beside. So…this batch was very, very strong on T3 and deficient in T4…They definitely have a problem.
FT3 – 5.1 (usually around 3.7)
FT4 – 0.7 (usually around .8 or .9)
TT3 – 249! (usually around 130-150)
Rt3 – 18.2 (had gotten down to about 10)..
I am thinking of trying the Nutri-Meds porcine product. Nutri-Meds’ website claims to have 130 mg of raw extract per capsule or tablet. STTM site says that this formula is weaker than pharmaceutical brands. I take about 1 and 3/4 grains. What would be the equivalent dose (understand that this may be approximate).
I am taking Nutri-Meds now. Last week I ran out of my 60 mg good ERFA (exp date 01/15), so had no other choice but to switch entirely to NM. I had been taking one 60 mg tab of ERFA in the am, one 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the afternoon, and then one more 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the evening. I was doing this as an experiment, really, because I’m not sure what is the equivalent dose of NM to ERFA. Before the ERFA Fiasco, I was on a dose of about 120 – 135 mgs of ERFA, for reference.
I’m now awaiting my recent blood test results, but I have a feeling I was getting hyper. But at the same time I had some hypo symptoms, too. What I did when I ran out of the 60 mg ERFA tabs was start taking just 2-130 mg caps of Nutri-Meds a day. I’ll know more once I get my test results whether I should stay at just two caps a day, or if I need more or less. So, it’s been a guessing-game.
OK, my reply was kind of confusing… brain fog. To clarify – I had blood work done at the dose of 60mgERFA and 2-130 caps NM a day. I was taking that for quite a few months. So that is what my blood results will be based on. After my blood test last week, I ran out of the ERFA, so dropped my dosage to 2-130 caps of NM a day because I was feeling a little hyper. So, I’ll know if I should adjust this recent dose change once I get my blood results back.
Hi Diane. Thanks for both your replies. I currently take about 1 and 3/4 grains daily of ERFA or Nature-throid. I split my dose thusly: 45 mg rising, 30 mg around noon, 30 mg around 7PM. This works really, really well for me. Keep us posted. I ordered capsules from NM. May be hard to split, but I like the idea of nothing else being in them except for the extract.
Hi Angie, That’s the reason I decided on trying Nutri-Meds, because of the pureness. The capsules actually aren’t hard to split, if you don’t mind emptying them and mixing with water. I’ve been doing this with all my supplements for years anyway because I have an allergic reaction to cellulose. I’m able to swallow the Nutri-Meds capsules when I take the full dose, though, because the capsule is pure bovine gelatin with nothing else added.
You may not get exact doses with splitting them, but pretty close, I think. Let’s just hope Nutri-Meds is strong enough to replace our beloved old ERFA.
Dianne and everyone, also explore ThyroGold. It’s from grass fed cows in New Zealand, and stronger than NutriMeds. Good patient feedback about it.
Dianne
Hi Janie, I have tried Thyro-Gold, but I have a reaction to one or both of the other ingredients in it – maybe the coleus, or the other ingredient (can’t remember what it is). It’s a shame, because I would have liked to take Thyro-Gold since I’ve heard good things about it.
I emailed the owner(s) of Thyro-Gold a few months ago, and asked them if they would consider making a pure version also with only the thyroid hormone minus the two added ingredients, but I haven’t heard back from them. So, I went with the Nutri-Meds.
Can you tell me if Armour Thyroid from Forest Pharmaceuticals is now working as long as we chew them up?
I have been on Erfa since 2009 and they worked perfectly until this last year when they did their reformulation!!!!!
I was on ERFA over a year ago. It worked just “ok” for a time but a few months later end of 2013 I went down hill FAST. I could barely walk. Then I switch to Nature Thyroid and I was back to normal and felt great. However, I gained 15 pounds in 2 weeks on Nature Thyroid. I didn’t gain weight on ERFA however I don’t think it was working very well. Has anyone experienced weight gain on ERFA or Nature Thyroid? Also, now that ERFA seems to be working better, I’m thinking of trying it again just to get the weight off that I gained from Nature Thyroid. I take 65mg on Nature Thyroid so would I take 60 mg for ERFA if I make the switch?
Heather, you are severely underdosing yourself. It’s not about changing to another NDT. It’s about raising the one you are on. Learn this and wok with your doctor: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
thanks for the response. I tried upping my dose by 15mg in January for 6 weeks. I had such bad anxiety and mood swings. My doctor said raising my med from 65mg nature thyroid to 80 was way too much and had to come back down to 65.
Heather, if the anxiety happened fairly quickly, then your answer is here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me i.e. it wasn’t too much. It was about what it revealed. If it happened many weeks later, the anxiety and mood swings were because you were still underdosed, and stayed underdosed way too long. You don’t stay on those low doses longer than two weeks without raising.
Thanks for the help but all my thyroid numbers are where they need to be now. I’m just wondering about weight gain or loss on Nature Thyroid or ERFA and if ERFA is safe to take now and also if I stay on the same MG’s if I switch to ERFA.
Heather, you don’t understand. This isn’t about your thyroid numbers. Please read the link I posted.
Anna
Is there general consensus that Nature-Throid is working better than Armour? I looked at the list of ingredients on the STTM, and it seems awfully long, including calcium which is known to bind thyroid hormone…but Thyroid-S also contains a lot of fillers and binders, and it is generally considered a good product, so the number of ingredients does not necessarily mean the product is bad (or so I try to tell myself…).
I don’t know if I got this wrong somehow, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that when NT was reformulated, methylcellulose (which is even more difficult to digest than microcrystalline cellulose) was replaced by MCC, but not that the amount of cellulose necessarily increased as a result…while the reformulation of Armour basically meant reversing the proportions between cellulose and sucrose, increasing the former and decreasing the latter…?
Anna, there are folks who love Armour: there are folks who love Naturethroid; there are folks who love Acella; there are folks who love Thyroid-S….etc.
I get my ERFA prescribed by by (NHS) endo. I phone his secretary when I need some more, she gets the prescription from him, and then drops it in to the Lloyds pharmacy at the hospital. They make out the prescription, and send it via hospital transport, to the cottage hospital where I live. They phone me when it arrives, and I walk round to collect it.
So yes, I am happy with the whole process.
Angie
Thanks, Nick. I tried Lloyds but they don’t ship to the US. Glad they are working well for you, though.
Anne
Thanks for this info Nick, I guess your pharmacy stocks up from Pharmarama or Idis. I have a private prescription (NHS still won’t agree I’m hypo) and Pharmarama have batch LF04140 60mg expiry July 17, not sure whether to buy them or not as can’t find anyone else using that batch, although that’s probably good because it means no-one is complaining about it!
Also the Health Canada website has ERFA being inspected on 310-2014 with a Type 3 risk, but DEL issued. DEL is license to manufacture, if I understand correctly.
Does anyone know of another Canadian pharmacy from which to obtain ERFA besides Canada Drug or The Canadian Pharmacy? While Canada Drug has been polite and helpful (can most definitely NOT say the same for Canada Drug), I got a lousy batch in November (14G0111) and would like to try one ot the batches with the LF prefix…
Angie… I ordered my Erfa from Universal Drug for years and years until the Erfa fiasco. They require a script. I never received my Erfa in
an original mfg’s bottle… always in a plain brown prescription bottle with a universal drug generated label even tho I ordered 300 quantity at a
time. They are very personable and helpful if you call them. You might telephone and see what the batch numbers and expiry dates are for
whatever Erfa they are currently shipping out. Whether they will tell you or not is a different story. lol
I believe they still sell Armour if you think that might help you. I don’t know if you have to have
a script that specifies a brand name or not. I always had my doctor write my script for natural desiccated thyroid in grains instead of milligrams
… no brand name.
Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info – much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. I’m pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?
I’ve been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. I’ve been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving – to a point – but I’ve crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. I’m just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, I’ll feel better. But it’s strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extent…I’m still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought I’d change. I’m battling daily with myself trying to believe that I’m doing the right thing switching to ERFA…and I’m hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! I’m also taking Cortef although it’s not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know you’ve got a prescription sorted. I’m hoping my doc will sort one out but she’s sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first – sigh …we’ve all been there! Anyhow…I mention the above in case you’ve any info that may help from your own experience – and if you can let me know about the batch number….great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X
Thank you Janie. I’ll take a look at the forums and see if I can find someone to help. I think I’m so low as I stayed on 1 grain for weeks and weeks! Didnt realise. So everything has crashed down. I feel as bad now as I ever did but am just hoping I havent had a bad batch and that I’m simply just waiting for my body to catch up. I’m on 3 grains now but the dose won’t kick in properly for another 3 weeks at least I guess. In the meantime I’ll take the Cortef I need and find a specialist to help.
I’ve just ordered your book and the updated version too…so I’ll get to the bottom of it I’m sure. It’s been over 20 years…so a bit more patience should be OK…although it’s incredibly depressing feeling like I’m back at square 1!! Scrub that…I’m just at the start of the road to a proper recovery 🙂 Thanks Janie. Cheers, Sara X
Hi Sara, I’m in UK too, but haven’t found anyone to really help recently although I now see a private doctor in London and an NHS endo in Kent. I was originally diagnosed by Dr Skinner and also saw Dr Peatfield. He seems to know more than most doctors but ThyroidUK do have a list of helpful endos and doctors, NHS and private and also a forum through Health Unlocked. You mention the expiry date of your ERFA above, and give the DIN number, but do you also have the lot/batch number, which will be something like LF…..A with 5 numbers in the middle and could you also tell me where you got them? Pharmararma (importers) finally have some in stock with an expiry of 2017 which I am hoping will be definitely ok as I got a private prescription from a doctor London recently.
Suddenly realised I put this in the main section rather than replying to you personally, Anne…so I’m reposting 🙂
Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info — much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. I’m pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?
I’ve been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. I’ve been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving — to a point — but I’ve crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. I’m just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, I’ll feel better. But it’s strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extent…I’m still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought I’d change. I’m battling daily with myself trying to believe that I’m doing the right thing switching to ERFA…and I’m hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! I’m also taking Cortef although it’s not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know you’ve got a prescription sorted. I’m hoping my doc will sort one out but she’s sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first — sigh …we’ve all been there! Anyhow…I mention the above in case you’ve any info that may help from your own experience — and if you can let me know about the batch number….great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X
Hi Sara, I did a search for that batch number and found two mentions of it, one is in a comparison photo which Janie put up here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/erfa-in-new-bottle-but-old-pill/ in example 4, to show the old and the new tablets (are your tablets speckled like those?), the other is on the Thyroid UK Health Unlocked forum where someone asks if they’re ok, no-one else had that batch and eventually she switched to NatureThroid and preferred it – but to find that you have to go through her old posts and probably be a member. So I’m afraid that I’m not sure whether they’ve ok or not. If you search for just the batch number you’ll come up with both those mentions plus this thread where you mention it.
I got my last lot in November 2013 from the same pharmacy as you and have been waiting ever since for them to get in some new batches. When I emailed them they admitted a lot of people had complained about them. Mine were a different batch from yours though, but what I find confusing is that people can have the same batch and some be ok and others not. I think it’s possibly a storage problem somewhere along the line.
When I first took NDT it was after taking both levo (125mcg) and T3 (40mcg) and I just felt fine during the switch over. I don’t think you should feel worse, specially as you’re taking Cortef. You said that you started on ERFA via an alternative doctor who “said my energy responded much better to ERFA” Do you mean that he did muscle testing to find that out, or used a pendulum or something like that? If so did he also try it with other forms of NDT at the same time, and was it that batch you now have that he used to test? Sorry for all the questions but this interests me as someone used energy to check if her ERFA would be ok for me and gave it to me as a back-up until I could get something else.
Have you joined any of the groups which Janie linked to? I think you may get a lot of help in some of them and I also think that if you go to an NHS endo feeling awful on NDT he’ll most likely try to switch you back to synthetics.
Hi, Sara. I see you mentioned that you got your Erfa from Inhouse? I also purchase WP by RLC Labs from them.
It seems with inhouse, as long as you have sent them a legit prescription on file, they will fill with any natural thyroid brand name you wish. Have you thought about trying another NDT instead of the Erfa?
I take WP. My hubby takes Armour. I had previously sent my rx to Inhouse for my WP. A few months later, I
ordered the Armour for my hubby. The order went thru with no problem. I waited for them to tell me I needed
a prescription for the Armour (I had the rx all copied in my ‘puter, ready to forward to them) and when I didn’t hear from them, I called and asked if I should send them the rx. They said if I wanted to I could but it wasn’t necessary, that the order had already shipped. hmmm… so.. apparently as long as they have a script on file, they aren’t too particular what brand name you order or how often. This was about a year ago. I assume this policy is still in place.
Firstly thank you so much for all the information Janie. Sincerely appreciated. I hope you can help. I’m not sure if I’m on the right meds/supps or not! I was on Levothyroxine 100mcg for a few years and then saw Dr Barry Peatfield in the UK (thyroid and adrenal specialist) as I simply wasnt getting better..or I should say I’d improved but wasnt nearly there. He addressed my adrenals and I took NAX (Nutri Adrenal Extra) and eventually Cortef (Hydrocortisone) which were life savers. Whilst I was able to lead a reasonably normal life, I’ve never felt great, so in December 14 I was told to switch to ERFA but an alternative specialist. He said my energy responded much better to ERFA. He told me the equivalent dose was 60mg (1 grain) What he didnt tell me was that that was a starting dose! So for a while my pain over my thyroid decreased and my heart rate became stable but then I had the most almighty crash!! I couldnt afford the follow up appt to the specialist and as he didnt tell me I’d prob need to raise my dose I was unaware. That’s when I started doing lots of research again and came across your site (thank you again) I upped my dose to 2 grains, figuring that I’d been on 100mcg of Levo before…I’d up the dose quicker than some. 4 weeks on (today) I’ve improved somewhat but not fully (some days I’m ok, ish, and others like today I’m on the floor). Dr Peatfield has asked me to increase my dose again by 30-60mg of ERFA and I did that last Sunday so I’m waiting to find out how things will pan out. I chose to up it by another grain as this should be pretty comparable to my previous Levo T4 100mcg dose, I’m hoping this will be OK. (gulp!) I’m posting on here because I’m concerned I may be doing the wrong thing. Is ERFA right for me? Is it the right dose? Am I feeling bad cos I’ve had a bad batch? (today I’m aching all over, feeling yuck with no energy) and I don’t know why. I’ve never had a feeling of being totally cured, I don’t know if I’m on the right adrenal support and I have had so much advice from different people, I’m not sure who to listen to now! I’m in the UK and would so love a doctor who would hold my hand through all this. I have a specialist appt at the end of April with an NHS endocrine guy, but I don’t hold out much hope because, as you quite rightly point out, we have to teach them. I’ve been reading about Vitamin D and the iron stuff and suddenly there’s more info. Where on earth do I go to find the right person to work with in the UK? (South?) I’m not sure if Dr Peatfield has all the answers but I can go back to him…but what with the expense of all the meds and supps I’m on, it’s about finding the budget. Anyhow..sorry for waffling on, but if you have any advice on who to see, what to do, whether my dose is OK etc etc…great! I’ve started taking 1 grain 3 times a day (spacing them out) but I’m going to try 2 grains a.m. and 1 in the pm. as that’s been suggested. I’m also on 2 x NAX and 10 to 15mg of Cortef. As this is a steroid, this also brings concerns…but it clearly helps! Thanks for reading. Cheers Sara X
Hi Sara! With all that I do, I’m unable to get into much feedback like this. But I can say I’m optimal on 3 1/2 grains, just for comparison, though folks are different. And we’ve found that 10-15 mg Cortef is inadequate if saliva revealed seriously low cortisol recently, but perhaps you are weaning. Here’s where you can join patient groups, under #2 here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others and get great feedback!
Hi Tyra and Janie, Thank you both for the information. I will take my temperature to get further information. I am not experiencing the symptoms I had long ago when I was first diagnosed: cold hands and feet, fatigue, hair loss, etc. Only heart palpitations and missed beats and occasionally a bit hyper feeling. It is amazing, to me, how quickly the heart palpitations ceased when I switched back to Erfa. The Acella pills are so small, I wouldn’t know how to decrease the amount. I will see my doctor in April and get new labs and ask for a cortisol test.
Ellen, just because those symptoms are different than they used to be doesn’t mean they are less significant. They are clear symptoms that you are either underdosed, or they are revealing an adrenal and/or iron problems. And the size of the pills have nothing to do with it. It’s the mg amount that does. It’s not about decreasing. It’s about finding out what your current amount is “revealing”. The cortisol test you want is not a blood test, by the way, which uniformed doctors tend to order. You need to do saliva testing. You also need to order all four iron labs. All explained here: https://stopthethroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Hello Ellen, I too was taking Erfa for years and switched to Acella NP and immediately had heart palpitations, dizziness and hair shedding. The symptoms stopped immediately after I skipped a dose. My ferritin was 40 when I took the first pill…I will never take Acella NP again.
I took Erfa after the Armour reformulation and did very well using half of the 125 mg tablet per day which is 36.5 mcg T4 and 8.5 mcg T3, The Erfa 60 mg, 35 mcg T4 and 8 mcg T3, was not strong enough. When reports of sickness were reported with Erfa last fall, I changed to Acella thyroid 60 mg per day. I felt fine for the first month and then began having palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling. I couldn’t figure out what was causing these symptoms but then the other day, I decided to skip a dose of Acella and I was able to sleep through the night without palpitations and the next day I took an old Erfa that I had and still feel fine. Could the Acella have inconsistent amounts of thyroid? Wondering if I should try another brand of NDT? Since the US brands are all 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 they may all cause palpitations or would there be a difference in how they are absorbed? I did well on 60 mg of Armour for 10 plus years before it was changed. Would appreciate any input. Thanks.
Janie, thanks for the reply. I read the link you provided but am still confused.
Initially, my doctor started me on a very low dose and we worked up to 60mg Armour where I stayed for many, many years.
I did have a lot of energy at times on it. When I took Erfa, I felt the best on their formula of a little less T3 and T4. Now with a little higher
amounts of T3, T4, it seems to be a tad too much. How would I decrease to get the same effect?
Hi Ellen. Doctors don’t understand yet how to use NDT. In most cases, you don’t start as low as it sounds you were started. We start at 60 mg aka one grain, and build up from there. It’s all explained in the link I gave you. Click on it and you’ll get a lot of good info based on years of wisdom. 🙂
Hi, Ellen. This is not to contradict anything that Janie has told you. She is the pro as far as I am concerned but….
My story is so similar to yours. I take 60mg/90mg, alternating days. I have been on NDT for over twenty years and went to Erfa from Armour when they changed the formulation some years back and did just fine on it. I now take WP but have tried the NP Acella and I liked it. I didn’t take it as long as you… just tried it out for a few weeks. This was when I was changing from the messed up Erfa to another brand of NDT… trying them all.
I read and researched a lot about the Acella and the only complaints I ever heard/read about were from a few folks who had some hyper symptoms on NP. I am just guessing here but I think the NP is better absorbed than some other NDTs out there? So maybe a lower dose of NP would be more appropriate for some?
I think there is a small sub-set group of NDT users like you and I who don’t require a lot of NDT to be stable. I did suffer from cold intolerance all those years but I had always had that problem since I was
a child. I always felt I might like to bump up my NDT dosage but every time I tried it, I would get heart palps. A few years ago, I started supplementing with Lugols/Iodoral iodine and after about a year and slowly working up to 12.5 mgs of iodine, the cold intolerance/ cold nose/feet resolved itself and no more heart palps either. And my tsh (which I know isn’t a particularly good indicator) dropped down to 1./-.1 all by itself with no adjustment made in my NDT dosage.
I was originally put on Synthroid before my doc let me try the Armour…. this was all back in the early
nineties. That year on Synthroid I call my year in hell….lol. I experienced profound exhaustion, horrible short-memory problems, depression (I am never depressed) and I ached from head to toe, especially in my leg bones. So.. I know what hypo symptoms feel like. When I went on Armour all those years ago, it was like the sun came out. This just to share that I know what hypo symptoms feel like and after all that misery, a little cold intolerance was no big deal.
You might want to try the WP by RLC Labs and see if it suits you better than the NP by Acella. Or… try cutting back your NP to say… 45mg/60mg every other day or even 45 mg per day. Experiment and see how you do. We are all so different and people seem to do better on one brand of NDT over another it seems. It is a shame that docs aren’t more open to letting us try different brands in order to find the best match for us.
Yes, you can basically put everyone in these percentage categories on a continuum, we’ve noticed. i.e. the majority on the continuum end up being optimal in the 2 grain to 3 grain area. I am in that majority at the higher end of it at 3 1/2 grains, and my husband is in the lower end of that majority at 2 grains, but we’re going to test to see if he needs a tad more. A smaller percentage, but still a fair size group, are higher than the 2-3 grain area, such as 4 grains and higher. A smaller percentage are optimal at less than 2 grains. One of the doctors who contributed a chapter in the STTM II book is the latter.
So when trying to find your optimal dose, “optimal” seems to equal several things: 1) having a free T3 in the upper quarter of the range–that is important and we’ve seen it repeatedly the past decade when someone is truly optimal 2) the removal of nearly all symptoms clearly related to being hypo for “you” 3) having a mid-afternoon temp close to 98.6F/37C (not done at ovulation or after) 4) having a before-getting-out-of-bed morning temp of 97.8F to 98.2F (using a mercury thermometer in mouth for at least 5 minutes, and not done at ovulation or after) 5) having a good heartrate and blood pressure.
But if on any of the lower doses, one has what Ellen described (palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling), that is definitely not optimal and has nothing to do with “NP Thyroid making some hyper”. It either means one isn’t on enough (because still being hypo can result in excess adrenaline–your body’s way of being alarmed by still being hypo), or it can mean you have revealed that you have either low cortisol or low iron. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me The latter is very informative and important.
Hope that helps. Reported patient experiences rock!
Anne
I’d be interested to know if anyone has batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but am not going to risk buying them without knowing they are ok. Thanks!
Hi Anne: I don’t have this batch, but am considering ordering a batch with similar lot # LF 04245A..Let us know how you do. It appears as if the “LF” batches, at least the later ones, are okay. At least from the comments I’ve seen recently. Y’all (yes, I am from the South), please correct me if I am wrong.
Ik heb LF03506A Exp 02/2017
Ik heb ritmestoornissen ben heel erg moe en heb vreselijke spierpijnen
Geen arts die wat vindt nu weet ik het na dit opzoekwerk !!!!! Die erfa deugt niet
(The above is her Erfa batch and expiration, and the rest seems to translate to: “I’m very tired and arrhythmias have terrible muscle pains No doctor likes what I now know after this research work !!!!! That is no good ERFA.”)
This continues to be a very serious issue and I keep looking to see if there has been any resolution. Gosh – I didn’t even know about this issue with BAD BATCHES of Erfa until late last year when I began feeling ill, came to this site to find some answers, and was hit with a firestorm of reports of bad batches.
Having read through all the comments in the May and June 2014 blogs, I see it started in late 2013. Some of us had pill supplies from the good batches which lasted us well into 2014; I was one of those.
I just spent some hours reading all the comments. I started a chart of the lot numbers that were bad, and the dates, and symptoms. But I got to over 70 and can’t continue – too exhausting. I now see that Janie asked in Aug 2014 if someone would do such a chart. I will just summarize my main findings: the trouble with Erfa started before they moved from Belgium to Spain. Some new bad pills were put in old bottles. Most troubles started around January 2014, proving that batches made in 2013 were already suspect. But most of the bad batches were exp. 2016. People have speculated that it could be: heavy metal, gluten or other contaminants; contaminated raw thyroid gland; feeding the pigs GMO grain; and other possibilities.
People have asked for/said they would get the old and new batches of pills tested by an independent lab, as Erfa has never tested for anything but t3/t4/filler composition, apparently; but I can’t find any results yet. I myself was wanting to do that, as I was so enraged at my ups and downs with the pills. Different results from pills in the same prescription bottle.
The July 2017 batch of 30s was good but the Aug 2017 was bad! Worrying every day whether the pill would throw me into some kind of distress, or leave me feeling well and functional. If I rest enough and get the strength I’ll finish the chart and post it. I exclude anyone who wasn’t ALREADY doing well on Erfa. The problem is it’s a very long document even summarizing the symptoms. I could do the chart without the symptoms to save space. I’ve been trying to be logical and use the 125 mg batch exp. 8/15 that I last got which seems OK. Mind you I am still swinging hypo and hyper from being on crazy batches for at least half a year, and it takes time to rebuild the health. But my good batch will not last forever and it is surely the last of the old formulation. I have to prepare to ask my dr. to order Armour or Naturethroid from the states and hope he will do it and hope it works. So, has anyone actually submitted the bad pills to a lab to look for contaminants?
Suze well done for trying to make up a chart of all this. I tried to last year and gave up, it was too confusing especially when I found some people were saying a certain batch was bad when others said the same batch was fine.
I wondered about having an old tablet and a new one analysed (I have both) and enlisted the help of a family member who is a pharmacist, but could not find anyone willing to do it. It seemed the only way for it to be done at minimal cost would be through a university research lab. If you find someone able to do this I would happily send you a couple of my old tablets and some of the bad batch, all 125mgs.
My bad batch was bought in November 2013 and I had an allergic type reaction it, with almost immediate stomach problems and then dizziness, faintness and palpitations, which took hours to get better, so to me it was nothing to do with the amount of T3 or T4 etc in the tablets, it was definitely something else. But that batch, made in the old factory, was in a bottle with one of the new labels. Because of the awful reaction I only took the tablets for 3 days and Dr Knafo, although he kept in contact with me, would not take my concerns seriously because he wanted me to have blood tests showing a difference since starting them. He also seemed to think the problem was only happening among readers of STTM here and on Facebook, despite my having directed him to other forums where the problems were being discussed. Unfortunately this belief also seems to have permeated other places now.
I switched to Thyroid-S, my labs are higher than ever before but I feel don’t feel as well as I did and know I must switch to something else again. I am in the UK and have a private prescription for ERFA, but can’t afford to lose any more money on a bad batch and also have the ongoing worry of when the next bad batches will appear. I did very well on ERFA for several years and I think Dr Knafo’s attitude was an awful abandonment, on the part of the whole ERFA company, of our concerns but far more of our health and long-term well-being. I wish we could do something to ensure they, and their manufacturers, take issues of safety more seriously in future.
I really like this website for what it brings to the thyroid community. But please stop this non sense of conspiracy theory.
It never occurred to you that if Erfa didn’t “confess” it’s because they never lied???
You have a strange way to thank the company that helped you for years… I’m sorry but people change. If Erfa doesn’t work for you anymore fare enough! Change your medication and stop complaining about a contamination that doesn’t exist!!
This medication is perfect for me (it’s been 5 years!) and I’m certainly not alone.
Please stop criticize without end about a good product that doesn’t work anymore for you but still is a miracle for a big majority of patients.
Where is the conspiracy theory? My last batch of 500 ERFA thyroid tablets made me too sick and dizzy to function within half an hour of taking them. I went back to an old batch which were fine. I tried the new ones once more and once again I was too sick and dizzy to function, the ild batch were still fine for me. Someone mentioned a similar problem on the Thyroid UK forum, I came here and also went to Mary Shomon’s blog and found others with the same batch as mine having identical symptoms. This batch was made in the old factory in Belgium not the new one, so I knew whatever the problem was, it was different from others here. I have suggested several times that it may be to do with transportation or storage en route and not to do with different fillers.
I live in England and do not have the luxury of doctors who happily prescribe NDT. I have to persuade them that it works and I also have to pay for it in full because it is only allowed on private prescription in my area. I was able to get a year’s supply which is too expensive for me to make another mistake, and because of the number of people who have complained about newer batches since the beginning of last year, my endocrinologist is very unwilling to prescribe it again. I have one private prescription left and need to ensure I get a batch which others have no problem with.
My annoyance with the ERFA company is in part that, however kind and concerned Dr Knafo was in our very many emails, he wanted something to show up in blood tests. Naturally enough I was not prepared to continue taking my latest ERFA and becoming non-functioning for six weeks, to do this. Even my endocrinologist thought that dangerous.
Further confusion is that, when I last contacted someone on a different forum about the various current batches, because I would still like to take ERFA in preference to anything else, I was told that it was only people on STTM who had had any bad batches at all. Mary Shomon’s blog no longer shows the relevant posts and the people who posted on Thyroid UK have moved on to other brands, so it is almost impossible to verify that.
As for my having ‘a strange way to thank the company that helped’ me for years, I felt so well on it for five years that I am still trying to take ERFA, which is surely some thanks to them! I didn’t report them to the various health authorities that others suggested over the last year and I kept in polite contact with Dr Knafo until he left. However, there will now be a doubt about what happened and whether it will happen again, because, if it was nothing to do with the manufacture, then it is to do with the storage and transportation and therefore out of the control of the company itself.
This is almost the last place we can compare notes on this issue, please do not try to discourage anyone from doing that or to belittle the very real bad reactions a few of us had to a few of the batches of an otherwise excellent product – something most of us have never denied.
Anne, your experience is not alone. There were enough folks all over the world who were once doing well on Erfa, then when they picked up new batches, were not anymore, that it became clear that there were, in fact, some bad batches out there. Granted, some have not experienced them like Caroll, but enough had that it’s pretty clear something went wrong with some of them, even though Erfa was not going to acknowledge it. It’s not just about “STTM” folks. It was reported elsewhere as well, but some leaders are more “political” than others and don’t want to comment. Hang in there! I hope you find a better NDT for you! Hopefully more will comment about the newer batches that are now working better and folks can move to those or move away from Erfa completely for not acknowledging the bad batches–the latter which was a big turnoff for many.
Dianne
I sang high praises for ERFA Thyroid for the first 6 years I took it, so not only was I shocked and devastated at the change (whatever it is) in the tablets, I was equally shocked at the unwillingness of ERFA to do anything about truly investigating it. And ultimately, yes, I’m very turned off by ERFA. To me, logically, medications don’t stop working for no reason, like it’s a fault of mine. And medications that have previously made us feel well, don’t just suddenly cause horrible reactions for no reason at all.
Some of us aren’t so lucky, either, to be able to ‘change our medication and stop complaining’. Did you know that in Canada ERFA is the ONLY NDT by prescription available to us? So finding a decent replacement has been really difficult.
Dear Carroll: Would like to set the record straight here. I had been taking ERFA since 2009 with great success until early 2014 when a batch from The Canadian Pharmacy made me feel awful. TCP was non-responsive and ERFA was not much better. I could switch back to older ERFA or Nature-throid and symptoms would disappear, so this wasn’t me. There was most definitely something wrong with the batch. I tried some later LF prefix batches and did ok, although one batch did feel extraordinarily strong. When ERFA supposedly looked into the problem, I asked (coming from a laboratory background) to see the data and was refused unless I would sign an agreement not to publicize what I saw. Since others had had problems and I had a moral dilemma with that agreement, I refused. So…no cigar. I do not do as well on other thyroid meds as the old ERFA a/o non-problematic batches. One later batch LF03508A, I did reasonably well on, so there is some inconsistency. A recent batch 14G0111, was again “dodgy”. I find your comments uninformed and short-sighted. While I am glad you are doing well on the ERFA that you have obtained, there are over 800 comments on this site alone and more comments on other thyroid sites expressing similar concerns and problems.
I decided not to do any more on my chart as there is really no big outcry anymore and we are a minority. I have the eight pages of notes which are mostly from comments in the May blog but it’s representative enough. Some people became ill; others had hypo symptoms return such as hair loss, fatigue and weight gain. All of us did well on Erfa before and have no reason to make this up. If we did not become ill or hypo, we’d be the ones scoffing. Maybe we are deluding ourselves? It’s true that some people had no ill effects. My doctor and pharmacist showed no interest in my reporting bad batches that were making me ill. The pharmacist had heard no other complaints. I am still having ups and downs with my doses even when I try adding Synthroid and use my old Erfa which worked last year, so anyone can point to that and say it’s not the Erfa to blame for my ups and downs. All I know is that for two years I was relatively stable taking Erfa and that stopped sometime after starting a new prescription in mid-2014 for 30s and 60s. At this point I realize it’s time to move on and we are really on our own here, and there is not going to be any movement to change Erfa back. I have read about changes in formulation to Armour and Naturethroid which caused a big upheaval, and lots of Eltroxin and Synthroid were recalled years ago as well, and so this is not even new. Maybe all of us just happened to get symptoms from something else. Maybe there were only a few pills in the bad batches and we happened to get them. Whatever the case we are on our own at the mercy of the thyroid pill manufacturers because we need these pills to live. The quality of our life does not seem to be a factor as long as we are taking our pills. I think back to the biggest lie of all which my original endocrinologist said when convincing me to get the radiation. “You will only need to take one little pill a day for the rest of your life and you will be fine, but if you don’t have the radiation you will remain sick.” This little pill was synthroid; I was never fine. I’ve been fine at times on Synthroid plus Cytomel; never on either of those alone. I’ve been pretty well on Erfa and hope to be again. Right now, still having ups and downs.
Suze, I don’t blame you for not wanting to do any more on the chart. I also feel the big outcry has dwindled away, and the minority of us who have had issues with the new ERFA are pretty much on our own to figure out what we’ll do.
I have a couple of tablets with 2017 expiry date that I was going to try, but they have dark specks and are shiny-looking, so I think I’ll pass on them. I’ll see if I can find some 2017 stock somewhere that looks like the old ERFA and give those a try. btw, none of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to have heard any other complaints about the new ERFA, either.
Suze: You know, you are right, I was wondering if it was something they were feeding the pigs. If you change country of manufacture (Belgium to Spain) maybe the origin of the pigs is different. Maybe (upon analysis) the T4 and the T3 is the same as before and correct but maybe the pigs were filled with antibiotics, GMO feed, or worse. From my limited experience with mass spectroscopy the scientists only do target analyses, i.e. they look for what they expect to see and measure their quantities (e.g. T4 and T3). They do not take a full spectrum of everything present – because (guess what) that would be too expensive, and, to be fair, very complex with organic molecules. The offending chemical could be lost in the weeds of the background signals (i.e. signal to noise ratio too low). This information can be “teased out” but it takes a very long time and you have to have some idea where to look. This is why no difference has been seen following the ERF analyses. The answer would be, as suggested, give it to a university lab where a graduate student can sit on the experiment for a month if they feel like it – of course the instrument may drift out of calibration during that time!! Not always easy to find the truth.
I didn’t know anything about this until today! When I picked up my renewed Efra prescription early Jan. 2015 within 3 days I became very sick! flu like symptoms, basically in and out of bed for 7 weeks! Called my Pharmacist because this all started with my Thyroid pills, wanting to find out did I have the right pills? Did they change manufacturer’s. I called 3 times because I felt so sure it was these pills. I even went in to the Pharmacy to check the bottle they were using. When in mid February I ended up on the floor in horrific pain, I called the Pharmacist again about these pills. He told me to call my Specialist immediately, which I did and was taken off immediately and after 7 weeks all of these horrible symptoms stopped. I’m having thyroid blood work this week and seeing my Specialist in 3 weeks but of course being off my medication has left me with numerous problems. Bottom Line: I discovered this blog today and realized I wasn’t crazy! Also learning this medication is derived from desiccated pig (porcine) thyroid gland and creates dosing problems because there is no way to standardize the exact amount of the dose for each batch. My batch is LF04245A Expiry August 2017 and there IS something very wrong with it. I called Erfa, what a waste of time.
I’ve been getting a compounded levo-thyroxine, with the only thing added being some glucose powder. However, doing some sleuthing about the factories that produce levo-thyroxine, I find that it is derived onto a substrate of microcrystalline cellulose. Therefore, nobody even needs to add cellulose for there to be some. I have come up with a solution for myself. Since my compounded stuff comes in a capsule, I empty the capsule into a coffee filter sitting in a strainer, positioned over a cup. I then pour cold water over the powder. I looked up cellulose, and it pretty much does not dissolve in water. The levo-thyroxine does dissolve. After the water drains through, I pour the water into another cup, place the strainer and filter back on the first cup, and pour the water through again. I do this four or five times. I then just drink the water. I use the same filter for about three days, and by the third day there is a fair amount of white powder on the coffee filter, so I discard it and use a new filter. I was quite hypothyroid to begin with, and my numbers keep getting better, so I know I am getting the levo-thyroxine into my system. I did tell my doctor about this, and she told me that as long as my numbers keep getting better, to keep doing what I’m doing.
I live in Canada and have been taking ERFA thyroid for many years. In the last year or so I feel like my hypo symptoms have returned– fatigued , irritable, brain fog, etc. I just had my had my full medical plus all my labs, all normal, TSH suppressed, Free T4/T3 mid to upper range plus ferritin normal. I feel the ERFA does not have the efficacy it once had. I used to take compounded porcine thyroid back when ERFA took over production from Parke Davis and there was a shortage. The compounded worked as long as there was no cellulose. What to do!??
Likely this is a distribution issue.
However, I wonder if anyone else has done really poorly [as in side effects that caused you to stop taking it] on ERFA from the get-go?
My first experience was with them last year 2014, so not sure if I had some of the “bad pills” or am just intolerant to unstable T3 levels in the drug.
I.had.no.idea. Now I know how I went from feeling great to not. I’ve suffered a year. Thanks for all of the conversation. Just have to figure out my own plan now. Anyone know a good Dr. in southern Ontario, Canada?
Jen
I am in Southern On as well and I go to a Nurse Practitioner. I find they are much more compassionate and willing to learn and work with you when it comes to NDT. Search out London On, Nurse practitioner.
My batch of Erfa that expired July 2017 was fine. I just renewed it and could only get Aug 2017. I was startled to see that they were shiny like the 2016 batches that were bad. But I gave them a chance and had a terrible panic attack for no reason. What could be in those pills? Inconsistent amounts of T3 and T4? I can’t even guess what’s wrong. I was doing absolutely fine on dividing the dose until I ran out of the good batch. If it happened to you, would you continue to give the new batch a chance or go back to the old bad batch or search drug stores demanding to look at the pills until you see some that are not shiny? I do not want to get ridiculous over this but there is absolutely no reason I’d have an attack on the dose that worked great for me before.
I live in Canada and have been on ERFA for many years. I have never seen any of these shiner blotchy pills with more of an indent. The pills I have are the same I’ve always had before. Strange I haven’t seen these other ones.
I’ve been on Erfa for three months now. I never had any major symptoms but my TSH was ranging from 3.3-4.5 over the past two years and FT3 and FT4 were low. My reverse T3 ratio was way too high also. (Was negative for Hashis). I’ve only been on 1/2 grain and my recent test came back with TSH down to 1.9 and FT3 and FT4 increased to mid range now (was lower range). My RT3 ratio much better. I’ve just upped to 1 grain to try to get a higher FT3 and drop my TSH further. I feel really good, just concerned as i’ve never had very serious symptoms and this low dose seems to be working to get my numbers in line, but keep reading my dose is super low… when I increased to 1 grain this week felt like intense caffeine reaction, but less reaction a couple of days into it as body must be adjusting. Love Erfa though, been very happy with it.
Yeah, you feel better on ERFA compared to Synthroid but you could probably feel even BETTER. The TSH test the doctors use are terrible and most people feel bad in their ranges. You don’t have to have serious symptoms to be concerned… just annoying ones are enough. When my TSH was in the 1’s, I would stutter or sentences would just come out all jumbled. That isn’t anything serious.. I don’t get paid to talk to people so it’s not like I’d risk losing a job..but it was still an annoying problem. Being cold all the time because your body temp is around 97.1 instead of 98.6 also sucks.
I have been on EFA 30 mg for only going on three months now.. Via my natural path Dr .. The only thing I can comment on is I was getting extremely tired this last month, but figured it was because I stopped my vitamin B shots. Now taking vitamin B vitamin capsules and my energy is picking up. I am going for new blood work two days from now..see my natural path Tuesday to get results and will find out then the new results. I will inquire if or what she has heard about NDT EFA.. Thank you for all your post on Thyroid issues!
Penny, unfortunately, you have been SEVERELY underdosed and for far too long. 30 mg is half of a starting dose. We’ve learned to start on 60 mg (one grain) then start raising by approx. 30 mg (1/2 grain) every two weeks until we’ve found a dose that removes all symptoms. I, Janie, am optimal on 3 1/2 grains….but everyone is a little different on what their optimal amount is. So that’s why you feel extremely tired!! You have now been made worse! Read this page carefully: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 because you’re going to have to teach your Naturopath how to dose with NDT better…or find a much better practitioner….
I disagree Janice. Some of us have a sensitive system and need to start very low. I was on a 1/4 of what you consider a starting dose and had side effects within 5 days. Then the dose was increased slowly over time and side effects worsened and increased. We are as you said, all different. Having a good practitioner who takes time to watch and monitor you is the best thing in the world. I think Penny is fortunate indeed!
Hi Tanya. Hey, most of what STTM represents isn’t about “opinion”. It’s about patient experiences and wisdom. And for most, it’s been reported that one grain aka 60 mg, has been ideal for a starting dose. But it’s okay if someone needs to take less, too. But you might also benefit from reading this, because it sounds like you: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thankfully I’ve not had any problems so far. I’m very happy on Erfa. On the other hand, I don’t know which batches I’ve had, but I’ve been on it for about 15 months now.
It’s nice to see some more comments on this. After stopping the ‘bad’ batches of Erfa early this fall and using over the counter thyroid like nutri meds for a few months, when I restarted the 125mg Erfa exp .4/’17 recently, it did feel too strong. Now, after a few weeks, I’m fine with it.
With the cold weather here in Canada and having been sick with colds, flu too much recently, I may use up my Nutri meds in the afternoon as well as the morning Erfa and see if it helps.
I was not satisfied with the new Erfa – I was getting pins and needles in my hands and feet. I thought I must have become sensitive to the pork or something in the new formulation was completely toxic to me. So like an idiot I went on plain Synthroid. The second day I had a 15 hour hyper/anxiety attack, 3 hours after taking the dose. After analyzing which was worse, I am back on Erfa. I’d rather have tingling hands and feet than massive anxiety from whatever the synthetic T4 was doing in my system. So here I go again, low dose (1 grain) of Erfa, until I am absolutely sure it is safe to raise it a tiny bit. I would rather be in severe brain fog and sleepy all the time than ever go through a nightmare Synthroid attack again. It’s always: who do you trust? They’re all out for profit; they all make mistakes in manufacturing. So you read people’s results. Erfa users still have far fewer major complaints than Synthroid users. And then there’s the big thing = you have to give it 6 weeks to work; the body has to “get used to it.” I have rarely been that patient but I am going to stick it out and if I keep having horrible results it’s got to be something else besides thyroid and I’m going to see a naturopath. My doctors always go, “whaaa? I don’t know….”
Right, and for those of us that have gone through this for 10+ years, a bad batch or a formula change is a regular thing even if years go by before we’re in this mess again. Yeah, ERFA handled this badly and played stupid…but at this point, what are they going to do? Come back and admit they were wrong? Unlikely.
And really, you should’ve tried another brand of NDT instead of going back to Synthroid. Doctors in general suck. They don’t know anything that they can’t check off a chart.
It does not take 6 weeks to kick in. That is just what your doctors tell you when you are on Synthroid and they retest your TSH every 6 weeks to make sure it stays high where you are hypo and feel like crap.
I do not have a thyroid and can tell instantly if something is working for me or not. I let it dissolve under my tongue. You can feel it kicking in like you would feel anything else. It’s kind of like people who are dependent on caffeine or alcohol and need it to pick them up to give them energy… or how you take something for pain relief and feel it fade. You just feel it kicking in. Stick with NDT, get optimized or close to it and then you’d understand everything your Synthroid doctor told you was wrong.
Hi everyone,
I DO want everyone to know that when I started a new batch of Erfa LF03833A expiry 05/2017 have had an improvement. I did as suggested when I was not feeling well and had a ton of blood work done and also tested my heart as I was having palpitations and had a murmur. Along with just feeling pure crap all the time, antisocial, I had a strange symptom of achy lungs, could not do any inclines, even mild ones when I walked without that symptom. I also had a dull ache and lower arm weakness. My results showed I was hyper, ferritin ok and so I lowered it from 5.5 grains to 5 grains and felt better on the new pills. I even invited friends over for the first time in a year this past two weekends and it does feel wonderful to participate in life again. I walk 50- 60 minutes a day now with none of those sypmtoms and am not fatigued from it. I have also been involved in part of a sexual harrassment case at work between a manager and young part time girls and I would never have had the strength to help them with the way I felt before.
Now I know you are all going to say, ah well, she was hyper all along, but if that was the case then why when I tried to lower it before on the crummy Erfa, did I not feel better like I did this time?
I guess the only way to be sure is to try some of those crummy pills again but I just can’t bring myself to do that right now. I am playing catch up with my life.
Sandra, I have been very well since starting this same batch as you. Please people, read the older comments too. I have report my better feelings earlier and still feeling great on Erfa again!
I also have a bottle from the same batch and it’s working! Actually it’s a second one in a row (from the same batch that I received from my pharmacy). The only batch I’ve had problems with so far was Lot: 18G051 Exp: 07/2016. I really hope it was just a temporary thing with the bad batches!
Any RECENT updates of ERFA from Nov. or December 2014? Until solid,
consistent efficacy with ERFA is once again reported by patients – ERFA will
remain doubtful and questionable at best. For me, an unquestionable medication – is NOT am option.
I am now back on Armour which once again is working AFTER they tweaked it 2 years following its reformulation in ’09/2010.
I do NOT do well on Nature-Throid (it just misses the mark), and after 5 weeks on Thiroyd – I realized, it falls short, as I
became mildly depressed two weeks later, and in retrospect could clearly see
how impaired & unproductive I had become.
So now without adrenal issues, & increasing my FERRITEN level, I am
stable once again on Armour. Until
ERFA is able to demonstrate its efficacy
by patient comments, I won’t be going back to it!
Anyone KNOW how much sales have
declined & plummeted? It’s got to be a
drastic reduction! Are they wearing blinders or what?
The problem is that people feeling good on Erfa won’t take the time to put a comment on this website. This is why I do it
I FEEL GOOD on it. And I’m not alone! My pharmacist told me that he still sells a lot of Erfa Thyroid. He even sells more than before and he doesn’t have complaint about it. I think it’s important to say it. A product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist…
Ruth, we’ve watched and worked with NDT for years now. And yes, everyone has their favorite as to what they feel works best for them. But…this was never just about “a product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist”. There were too many patients who, after years of doing wonderful on Erfa just like you, suddenly found themselves doing absolutely awful when they refilled their prescription. It was clear that something terrible was done those those pills, even though Erfa proceeded to deny it.
I understand your point and I’m really sorry about patients who went wrong after a refill. I’ve decided to trust erfa and to trust Health Canada. They wouldn’t have allowed a change like this.
Sadly, Erfa and/or Health Canada clearly did allow a terrible change like this, even if they didn’t realize what had happened, or aren’t going to say so. 🙁 But luckily, some of the new batches aren’t affecting people so badly, so we can hope this 2014 fiasco will fade away. It’s just too bad no one was honest about it.
Angie
I agree with Janie. I had taken ERFA with GREAT success since the initial Armour reformulation in 2009. I also had success with one newer batch and now am having problems on another. I reported this to Canada Drug who were much more responsive than The Canadian Pharmacy regarding the problems. I would once again become ERFA’s #1 fan if they would admit they had a problem and correct it. However, you can not change what you do not acknowledge and it appears that they are still peddling batches that are inconsistent.
Um
I would read through the old posts on this page. You posted a general question on a page that isn’t followed often and some have tried ERFA and reported back. It’s one of those things you’ll either have to avoid it longer or take a chance and decide for yourself. Like everything else in the world, some posters or reviewers will hate it and others will love it.
I do not know about ERFA’s sales. What I am interested in is the “tweaking” that you mention of Armour’s 2009 reformulation. Do you know this for a fact? Janie, any comment? Thanks! Oh and this comment is for Trisha.
Do you notice Armour working differently now than before? I have read so many negative reviews on reformulated Armour that I have hesitated to try it…but do you think it is working better now than before?
Has anyone got any of batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but would like to know they work before buying them!
I mentioned in my previous post, I would re-post once I had received new blood tests contrasting my change from Armour to ERFA. I have those tests now and the values are virtually identical. If anything the values show slightly higher activity for the equivalent dosage of the ERFA brand. This finding corresponds to my subjective feeling that the two brands are more-or-less equivalent. Subjectively, the only difference I thought I observed was that the ERFA brand had a flatter effect across the day while the Armour had a greater initial effect in the morning and less effect in the evening. As I said, that is pure speculation based on a sample of one (me). People should be careful about drawing conclusions based solely on their personal subjective experiences. They are important and determinative, of course, but too many things might have entered the causal chain unless they conduct what is called multiple baseline tests with reversals. Based on the comments, no one here has done that.
Au contraire, Rob. Many of us here that have problems with newer batches of ERFA have done that. I myself have gone back and forth between new and old several times AND between new ERFA and Nature-throid several times. This is not just about equivalent T3 and T4 measurements; but possibly due to contamination or other “active” (e.g., T1, T2 and calcitonin) differences as well.
Hi Susan. There are different doses, such as 15 mg, 30 mg, 60 mg….etc. So we don’t know what you mean. But do know that we usually break our dose up to twice a day. For example, I take 2 grains Erfa in the morning and 1 1/2 grains in the early afternoon.
I discovered that if I take 30 when I get up and 30 five hours later, just as I am falling into a hypo stupor, it revives me completely and I feel euthyroid the rest of the day. I know this is old news for all of you, to divide the doses for a steadier supply of T3, but I had written it off as ineffective when I tried it before. I tried it again in desperation. I think it is working because these pills are stronger than they were in 2012 and 2013 when I remained hypo even on 120, and adding another 15 or 30 later in the day did nothing. Anyway, so far so good. Maybe even the worst thyroid preparations work better in several small doses so we don’t get too much of the strong stuff at a time.
Definitely Suze, about multi-dosing. We’ve seen better results with it, too, especially twice a day. 🙂 More times isn’t usually needed unless one is still underdosed, as you still are.
I was actually thinking that my prescription is from two different batches since the pills TASTE DIFFERENT randomly. One pill will taste disgusting and rancid, like a horrible pork taste; the next pill might have almost no pork taste but an increase in the sugar sweetness and a difference in the way it breaks up when I chew it. I get fed up with the inconsistency and yet I still trust that it will average out. Am I trusting the wrong company? And I realize that maybe it is the cortisol/ferritin/other physical condition I might have. My doctors have refused to give me these tests again and I have got to go to a naturopath or someone to get the tests. So: what about the difference in the pills’ tastes, along with a difference day to day in the effects of the same exact dose? Me, or the pills? I am going to see if I can get it compounded but is that even a guarantee?
It’s been a while since I posted or responded to the continuing thread regarding ERFA. I did reasonably well on a 2017 batch (LFo3508A) and then ordered a new supply from Canada Drug (Lot #14G0111) and here we go again. This batch expires in July 2017. Interesting that this lot# begins with numbers.
Suze, another thing, maybe you should ask your pharmacy if your prescription was made up from two bottles, maybe find out what the batch no’s and expiry dates were on the original bottle (s).
Hi friends, I’m getting used to my latest batch of 125mg Erfa, expiry April 2017 starting with LF forget the rest. I may have had reaction when I started them recently because I had been taking over the counter, much weaker thyroid. Anyway, feeling ok with the above pills now.
Hi, I have a comment and a question. I’ve been on the new Erfa for a few weeks and did all right on 60 though I was mildly hypo. I increased it to 90 after a couple weeks because I felt it was time. I felt so great yesterday – virtually euthyroid for the first time in ages, then today I feel the dose made me hyper. The same dose of 90. I so hate these erratic effects. I mean do the pills vary in strength even in the same batch? I have not had a chance to get blood tests since August. But I know I was hypo for at least 2 months when I had to lower the dose because of the bad batch, as I was forgetful, cold, gained weight, sleepy, and the whole list of hypo things. Yesterday I didn’t forget a single thing. My mind worked perfectly, I had energy and I felt well. I did have insomnia and woke after only 5 hours as if I didn’t need the 7 to 8 hours I’ve needed lately. Why did the euthyroid turn to hyper so fast? I woke with a head and neck ache. It got better after a bath. I’m now feeling hyper, racing, restless, the familiar feeling of too much T3! Just when I thought I was doing better, and felt my stable health coming back. Can someone explain this? In the past my drs. have said alternate the doses; split the doses, etc. I’ve tried all these. I want CONSISTENCY! Does anyone have that? I do not want to go back to the synthetic. I made up my mind to trust the desiccated but there’s got to be something I’m not understanding about the effects. Is it just that I need to live thru the ups and downs again and the body will adjust? I also have pins and needles in both hands and feet, mostly when I lie down to sleep. It’s not as much in the daytime. I’ve had this for weeks. Does anyone else have this when the dose is wrong? And by the way I took as much as 150 last year without feeling hyper so what on earth is up with this?
Suze, your reaction to 90 mg is probably more about a problem with adrenals and/or low iron levels–either or both which you have acquired since last year. You don’t have to go back to synthetic. You will probably need to go back to 60 mg. and do saliva cortisol testing and all four iron labs…and treat what you find before you’ll be able to raise and do well with Erfa. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Dear Kat, It’s probably similar to mine which was LF something April Expiry. Mine is 125mg.
I got a response from Erfa to a letter I sent to the director. There is a new medical director there now but same response as from the last director, Dr Knafo. Unfortunate, but understandable as they couldn’t admit to anything changing. Here it is:
Thank you for your email describing your experience with ERFA THYROID, we are honoured that you and your husband have held us in such regard in the past. We would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention and assure you that we have recorded them in our safety surveillance database as we are committed to providing safe and effective products.
Concerning your question regarding changes in formulation of the product, we have not changed the product, manufacturing methods, or our suppliers. The ingredients are listed on our product monograph that can be found at http://www.eci2012.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Thyroid_monographie_ANGLAIS.pdf but there has been no changes made to them. The pills look shinier due to newer compressing machines (to form the tablet), but this should have no impact on effectiveness.
All complaints that you mentioned on STTM has lead us to test multiple samples of all lots involved and despite what information is available online there does not seem to be any correlation between a specific lot and a patient’s response. I understand that this is frustrating for patients but I assure you that we have not decreased our standards of quality, our ingredients, nor our manufacturing process. I sincerely hope that your health improves soon.
If you are still experiencing symptoms I invite you to consult your physician, who is more familiar with your medical history and your condition and is able to prescribe a TSH test that might help determine if your hypothyroidism is well controlled.
Kat… Someone back in Dec., I think it was, commented that they were doing great on batch
LF 03833A – 60 mg – exp 5.2017. So scroll back up in the comments. 🙂
Sorry for all the messages. I just want to add I’ve been taking 125mg Erfa for many years, once a day, but, as I found this last batch a lot stronger (april 2017) I am having to divide the 125mg in half now morning and afternoon, instead of taking the whole one a.m. It is great to have the energy back and feel clearer.
Ok so this takes some digesting, good to know that we only pay attention to what’s on the bottle, never though about the fact that it’s expiring on a different date on the monthly prescription.
I too live in Canada (Vancouver area) and had a bad reaction to the new ERFA – went hyper with my TSH plummeting to barely detectible and the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, unexplained weight gain) came back. Oddly, this is very similar to the reaction I have to synthroid which I cannot tolerate at all. I had been taking 140mg and maintaining a suppressed TSH of .2-.5 for years and had to cut back to 125 before I found out what had happened and that it had changed thanks to this site.
Right now, if you are in Canada and not close enough to the border to go fill a script yourself (you can take 3 months worth no problem and honestly I would not hesitate to go for a whole years worth and take my chances at the border- it’s thyroid hormone, not oxycontin for crying out loud), I think the best option is to find some of the good old ERFA – it’s still out there. I just found an untapped bottle of 500 of the old 125s so I’m pretty well set until at least March 2016 when they expire and I will be trying to stockpile some more and will take them past the expiry date if I can find more. Luckily, my endo is cool and understands the situation so he will write whatever prescriptions I need to stock up or head across the border. I would bet you can still find 125s & 60s out there if you go looking. I have no hope for the 30s/1 grains though – they seem to be long gone.
The new stuff’s lot numbers mostly start with LF… and the old stuff begins with numbers – usually 12 from my experience. Get in the car and head out to the burbs, bedroom communities, and the weird, small pharmacies that close early – that’s where I’ve has the best luck. Don’t go just by the expiry date – it’s the lot number that matters and the bottles are different too (see the perfect photos on this site!). The last bottle I found of the good old stuff has the same expiry date as the bad new batches so it must be some of the last out of the old factory. Ideally, go to the pharmacies, explain the situation and ask to look at the bottle & actual pills to be sure. If you strike out in your area, get on the phone – I’m sure there is plenty sitting on shelves up north and in the middle of nowhere since not very many people take the NDT – go get it and don’t let it just expire untaken! The place I found the last batch was awesome and actually called around to their other stores and found more of the old ones for me and have them stashed with my name on them so I can just keep buying 100 at time so my extended health benes will pay for them.
I don’t know what I’m going to do when my stash of the old stuff runs out, but it is a relief to have bought some time and, hopefully, the kinks will get worked out at the new factory in Spain in the meantime – sounds like they already are which is great news. I did have some email with ERFA too and just got the company line of ‘nothing has changed.’ Be careful with the new stuff – it seemed stronger to me in a weird and not so good way.
I do feel like I need a little more so think I’m going to start importing and adding a nip/half grain of the Armour to get back to my 140mg. Is Armour the way to go – that’s what my endo wrote the script for and what he is familiar with (he has a few patients that still swear by it and always liked it better than the ERFA), but should I try another brand these days?
Thanks for the super helpful site and good luck everyone!!
Alissa, thanks for your info that March 2016 is still the old type but the last ‘good’ batch I used up was 125mg, expiring Aug, ’15, (12021 batch) and then the November 2015 was bad. But you’re saying that the march ’16 was still the good old ones. Does anyone have any idea how this is possible?
My pharmacy didn’t have any more of the good ones from Aug ’15. Don’t know what to do but am thinking of continuing the too strong 4/17 batch and just keep cutting them in half and taking once or twice daily.
Yes – I no longer have the lot number handy (it is still at the pharmacy and I can check for you if you want – it definitely started with numbers not LF…), but I found some of the old 125s about 6 weeks ago that are non-speckled, not shiny and they actually work! When I first started taking them after months on the new stuff it was like the first time – all warm and tingly – could feel it soaking in. The ones I have expire March 2016 – remember, if you are just looking at a prescription bottle labeled by the pharmacy, the expiry date will usually be no longer than a year from when you filled it rather than the date on the big bottle of 500 the pharmacy has. Try another pharmacy – I went to well over 10 before I found the stash at one that closes at 6pm so no one goes there. Before I showed up, they never had a customer buy them there before, but both the 30s & 60s they had were of the newer vintage which is not too surprising since both (mostly the 30s so people were forced to split the 60s) were in short supply right before the change over. I did find some old 60s elsewhere though so they are around too. At least some of the old ones are still out there – probably with with 2015 & 2016 expiry dates – keep looking and it will at least buy some time until you can figure something else out. Think small towns where the only Dr. insists on synthetics, bad locations, stupid hours, etc. I basically pop into every pharmacy I see these days and see what they have, especially when I’m out of town in more remote areas.
It’s actually very confusing because some of the bad batches actually start with numbers – for eg. some of us have found that 125 mg tabs, batch 13C06 expiry March 2016 is a bad batch. So all bad batches don’t start with letters, necessarily. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the batch numbers, or the sequences of the batches.
It is confusing for sure and it’s probably not worth even trying to figure it out. I have in my possession old and new 125s that both have an expiry date of March 2016 and the new ones are what made me go hyper and hypo at the same time. I have not seen any of the new ones (larger, flatter, shiny, speckled) that start with numbers, but that definitely does not mean they are not out there. I never had a ‘bad batch’ of the old smaller, matte ones, but that also does not mean that they don’t exist either.
Scoring the old ones is not much of a solution, but it sure helped me out for the moment (or until March 2016) so I wanted to let people who are also having a hard time that they are still around with a little looking if you are willing to expend the time and effort to go to a bunch of pharmacies. I guess going in person and actually looking at the pills is the only way to be sure.
shirley
I’m from the east coast of canada. I’m getting a compounded formula from Fords pharmacy in New Brunswick (thyroid porcine(acidoph). At my request, they replaced the filler with acidophilus. I’ve been taking this formula for 3-4 months and I think I finally got the amount correct. First time in many many years that my body feels “normal”. The compound is expensive ( 2x as much as the ERFA) but, given how I feel now (normal), for me, it is worth the extra cost. I wonder if the old filler in the ERFA are a major issue. I’ll let you know how things progress over the next 6 months, if folks are interested.
Hi Shirley, I’m interested in hearing how things progress for you on the compounded thyroid hormone. I’ve also considered using acidophilus as a filler if I go ahead and start compounded thyroid, and it sounds promising. Is it in powder-form in a capsule, and are the only two ingredients desiccated thyroid hormone and acidophilus? How many milligrams per dose, if you don’t mind me asking?Thanks.
Hi Dianne. My compounded thyroid comes in capsule form. Each of my capsules is 112mg (exactly what I require). If i need more they just up each capsule. The only ingredients are the desiccated thyroid hormone and the acidophilus. I’ll let you know how things go over the next 6 months. So far so good. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Hi Shirley, thank you for answering my questions about your compounded thyroid hormone. If I have any more questions, I’ll let you know. I’d appreciate if you update us as time goes on. Thanks again. 🙂
Alissa
Thanks for this info Shirley. I may try going the compounding route when my stash of the old ERFA runs out. I have started adding 15mg of Armour to my 125 of ERFA and so far it seems to be a pretty good combo. Adding 15mg of the new ERFA did not go as well – made me jittery. However, importing my full dose of 140 mg of the Armour (and I may need more since by most accounts it’s weaker than the ERFA) from the States would be more than 4 times as expensive and without my extended heath plan’s 80% prescription coverage, it will cost more than 10 times what I pay for the ERFA. I really like the idea of probiotics as the filler too – that’s an awesome idea!
Hi, Shirley and Alissa 🙂 So? I am Just curious after…. Almost 5 Years ( a lot) are you still taking ndt? It’s interesting to see how things go after a bit….. I am Just asking cause you didn’t update anything even though you said you would, so i don’t understand if it’s good….
Wow, both my daughter and I took our 125mg Erfa, April 2017 expiry date, found it quite strong, we cleaned the whole house! It’s a bit too strong for us so we’ll get a smaller dose.
My daughter, who took the same amount, 125mg of Erfa last night and this morning, is getting the ‘singing’ feeling, feeling energetic. She may cut her dose in 2 and take half morning and half afternoon. Anyone else experiencing this?
I’ve just got some new Erfa, exp. April 2017, they have a slightly shiny exterior like the new ones but dissolve and taste like the old, good ones. Will wait a few days to see how they work. Anyone else tried the April ’17 ones, if so, how do you find them?
I was on synthroid for 8 years and never felt good. I am not on natural vitamins but am curious about NDT….I see alot of mixed reviews and am on the fence of what to do. My doc isn’t supportive of much, I had to make her test my t3 after explaining about all the research I had done. How much is it for erfa’s thyroid??? Anyone try anything else that worked well???
Dear friends, this last post about Erfa being good again is fantastic news. I’d been fine on my old batch of Erfa Batch 12H021, expiring on 08/ 2015 (pharmacist had pasted ex. 2015/01/04) I had a whole bottle (500).
The new batch I got in November ’14 was one of the ‘changed’ batches; shiny, bad symptoms almost immediately was only 200 pills (no batch no.) expiring 2015/11/17.
What you are saying is, get expiry date, July 2017 then? Is that unanimous?
I can report that the July 2017 batch of Erfa is good. I’ve been on it for only 4 days as the Synthroid/Cytomel combo gave me side effects and I gave it up. I got the new Erfa and it looks just like the older batches – not shiny. So whatever they were doing wrong, they stopped. I started in with just one grain to be conservative and have no side effects, no hypo or hyper attacks at all, yet adequate energy. I will stay on one grain as long as it works this well; if it becomes too low I will raise it gradually as I did before. This site has kept me going through all the upheavals. I hope I never look at the synthetics as a valid alternative again. I do think all the complaints that people poured into the manufacturers made a difference. If no one had said a word we’d probably still be getting the shiny pills that did not work right.
I will be getting lab results this coming Monday and will be very interested to see what they say. I have started a new batch of Erfa just after those labs (was on an old batch) and the new one is LF03833A expiry 05/1017.
I know that you say that there could be other things going on with us Janie and that could be a possibility but it is very interesting how one can be on the same lifestyle for years with no changes such as diet, same amount of hydrocortisone with attempts here and there to lower when feeling optimal, same exercise etc. and then you go downhill.
I remember that when I was balanced on the old good Erfa, I could handle all my job throws my way but this past year has been just awful. It wouldn’t even matter if I stress dosed my cortef either. One thing for sure that has happened in the last year and for the life of me cannot figure out is I must have inflammation, have achy forearms that are weak when lifting things and have on and off, achy lungs, a very weird symptom that when walking slightly up hill, on some days ache badly. I have been for an echo cardiogram, stress test, neck xray and lab work so will be very interested to see what is up.
I am so very happy to be off for Christmas break to rest up and pray for a better 2015.
and wishing the same to you all here!
Dear Janie, first i want to thank you immensely for your website… I still would have known so little about it if it weren’t for your information. I cried a lot when going through your website, so many common symptoms i had suffered for years only because my endo’s incapability to make me better.
Since 15 years now i am a hyperthyroid going to hypothyroid due to radioactive iodine therapy after i delivered our first child, 7 months after. I was for 15 years on the Belgian product L-Thyroxine 75mg daily,T4 only medication. On December 1st this month I got a severe depression and uncontrollable moodswings and told myself i want to heal as since my last pregnancy in 2011 my symptoms were getting worse, just as described in your website, i realized afterwards. I found an orthomoleculaire physician here in Belgium, Europe, Dr Proesmans, and i am lucky my general physician Dr Foulon has an open mind and immediately prescribed me the French product Euthyral (combined synthetic T4 0,1mg & T3 0,02mg). I am taking this since only 25 days now along with a number of supplements, keeping away from gluten and sugar, and keeping a more Japanese foodintake and there is a huge difference already: my severe cold intolerance disappeared, my Achilles inflammation stopped, my headskin stopped feeling painful, my eyes started tearing again, my dry skin has improved (not completely gone yet), my joints stopped being painful, my moodswings getting slightly better, allergies has been better, just to name a few. Must admit that my anxiousness towards stress situations still is high and i am hoping to improve this too as none of our four children and husband deserve a mother and a wife being often upset…
Now i am willing to try the NDT’s, more specifically the Canadian Erfa Thyroid. As i read here that the symptoms will disappear in time with synthetic combined thyroid T4 and T3, but they will definately improve much more when on Natural DT. So i am convinced.
My general physician already wrote me the medical prescription and my pharmacist is willing to get it for me. Of course now that i read about the bad batches of Erfa i am doubting to buy these. The ortho physician is willing to get me the Armour, but that brand is also under scrutiny. Any other brand you might recommend me then?
By the way.. i left my endocrinologist after he claimed three weeks ago that most of my symptoms should be addressed by other physicians and are not caused by my lazy thyroid and thus his unwillingness to write me the combined T4 & T3… just as you described here,Janie.
Hi Shinta. Not sure what you mean that Armour is under scrutiny? It’s not anymore. I will say that the 2017 expiration dates of Erfa have been reported as better lately. Or you can go with Armour if you can get it. 🙂
Hi, Shinta… Do research/google estrogen dominance or unapposed estrogen. Here in the states, we can order a natural progesterone cream
that is so helpful for insomnia, moodiness, flooding etc. There is also a book you can read ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause’ by
Dr. John Lee. The book isn’t just for menopausal women but is excellent for women of all ages. We are exposed to so many estrogen-like
compounds in our diet and environment, even women in their thirties can be experiencing estrogen dominance. Natural progesterone can be
helpful in balancing all our hormones. ProGest is one good brand name. You just start counting from the first day of your period… 10 days.
On the 10/11 th day, you start applying just a dab of natural progesterone cream for ten days. Apply to fatty areas (most of us have plenty of
those..lol) such as underarms, sides of breasts, inner thighs, alternating sites in order to avoid saturation.
As for thyroid supplements, WP by RLC Labs and NP by Acella are good. Naturethroid is okay but very chalky. Some say Armour has improved
over the last three- four years and you may be able to take it just fine, especially in the smaller pill size, (60 mg/1 grain and smaller).
I am using 50 Synthroid and 6 Cytomel and I felt horrible yesterday, like a combination of hyper and hypo – severe brain fog mostly. It was frightening. I can’t stay on it. I am not willing to “give it 6 weeks” or whatever. If I am better off using a bad batch of Erfa I will do that. How fast can I increase it to feel normal in the brain again? ?And what is it in this mix that causes it – the T3 or the T4? Like I felt reasonable all day and got the horrible head thing at night, how can I explain it, like a brain lag, where I am not thinking precisely. When I was on the bad batch of Erfa I’d be OK some days, and then have a hyper attack for a few hours, followed by severe hypo at night. BUT I could think. I feel the hypo thing in the eyes first. On one day I felt euthyroid. Does anyone know how to avoid the hypo-hyper attacks and swings on either Erfa or synthetic. I have had these for years so it’s not just the bad batch. It was just more severe with the last Erfa but this seems actually WORSE. I was reading my old notes as far back as 1992 to 2001 and I had horrible attacks of hypo and hyper with plain Synthroid or Eltroxin, and when I was on T3 alone compounded, my tsh went up to 40 even though I could function. Two blood tests I had in 1997, one was a perfect tsh of 0.7 and three months later on the same dose of 100 T4 it shot up to tsh 10. I do not understand how a little hormone pill can cause such havoc, no matter how much I read about the way it works. I would rather be on the edge of hyper but functional all day than severely hypo. Recently I was pretty good mixing 50 Synthroid with 60 Erfa – some days in November. But every dose and type sometimes give me an attack. Bottom line is right now I feel I am hypothyroid, but had severe weird hypo/hyper brain fog last night and do not know what to take today to avoid that! Please give me some hints. Sometimes I take nothing and whatever was wrong seems to clear out of my system. I am wondering if it’s me – something in the conversion, or something in the pituitary, or the actual tsh acting up – whatever it is – it’s not like the little pills are drugs. They are supposed to be bioidentical hormones, therefore why the severe reactions, sometimes delayed? If this rant sounds irrational, that is my brain fog and frustration! My endo is out of town and his secretary not calling me back and I am overdue to see him. I have to solve this on my own. My ferritin and cortisol were normal a few months ago. Is it always that? Can they go wrong just from stress? Or is it diet – I have experimented every which way and was on a low carb paleo diet for 2 years, recently experimented with starches to see if it would calm me. It does not work. I do better on the low carb, high protein. Anything else I should try?
Suze, everything you are describing has to do with either iron and/or cortisol issues. Remember–lab results have nothing to do with falling in the normal range. They had to do with where they fall. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Nick glad you’re feeling better than you were, can you let me know the strength, batch number and expiry date of the ones you think are ok, also did they come via Pharmarama do you know? I have a private prescription but haven’t dared buy any more yet as don’t want to waste even more money. Thanks!
Hi Anne, Apologies for the delay in answering your question – I have been catching up on jobs after last year’s almost continuous ill-health.
My latest batch is CFO 3882A (05/17). The last 2 could be a 7 – it’s hard to tell from the scribble. I am nearly at the end of that one and have my repeat prescription arriving tomorrow.
Thanks for telling me this Nick and I’m glad you’re feeling so much better. I have a private prescription and Pharmarama currently have 1 grains of batch LF04140A expiry July 2017, and I’m wondering whether to buy it at £62.50 for 100 days supply (2.5 grains a day), or whether to try something else completely. I don’t want to waste any more money, so if your next lot happens to be the batch I’ve been offered and they’re ok please could you let me know? Thanks!
I read somewhere above that someone said they have a 2017 batch that has no spots and feel fine on them. I think this might be key, so I’m going to ask around at different pharmacies to let me look at their 2017 batches to see if I can find some spotless ones. Can hardly wait. Sigh. (They’ll say, ‘oh here she comes again’.) This gives ‘Stop the thyroid madness’ a whole new meaning.
So I have been wondering for quite sometime, why is it that Erfa is the only dessicated thyroid available to us here in Canada? Why can’t we purchase US DT? Is there a way to start something to see if this can change such as contacting the manufacturers of US DT to ask why they won’t sell to Canada when there are so many US drugs sold in Canada?
I wish we could buy ndt from the US, too. I don’t understand how Canada can be so strict about what prescription drugs we bring in; but have no problem selling our prescription drugs to other countries. Makes no sense to me.
As I mentioned and I believe others have as well, it appears that subsequent batches of ERFA are fine. I have been taking it for the past few months with essentially the same subjective results as Armour. I’ll receive my blood test in a few more days and will post a follow up if warranted.
Looking over the many posts, I see a few people hoping that the cause of their individual changes can be traced to a medication change. In some cases this may be true but a lot of this may be dosage related, caused by failing to use objective tests to adjust dosage.
We should exercise some caution in blaming a product like ERFA. Keep in mind that if thoughtless blogs are successful in taking ERFA natural thyroid off the market, the price of Armour will triple and half of you will not be able to purchase it. Imagine the complaining we will see then! Even the federal (US) formulary will not recognize any natural thyroid products.
I recently got into trouble with my uptake of WP Thyroid. Quite suddenly my heart started racing & it felt like my heart was turning over in my chest. My resting heart rate was 140’s. No temperature, but very scary.
I had Holter monitor, stress-test, and echocardiogram & blood tests including RT3. All irregularities were attributed to too much thyroid hormone, The cardiologist declared no heart disease, only uptake of too much thyroid hormone that was causing my Afib/arrhythmia & racing heartbeat that lasted over 10 days.
Over the course of the last few months, with the supervision of my GP doctor I have been trying to get my temps up, without success, going up 15 mg each time after blood tests including all 4 irons.
My last dosages of Erfa were 225mg (felt hypo). When I Afibbed the WP dose was 210 mg. Now for 4 weeks I have been taking NO THYROID MEDS AT ALL. I do not feel hypo or hyper at this point, but had blood drawn yesterday see where my levels are. My temp has gone down a bit. I am sleeping better, however I don’t want to get too far into the hypo range. In more than 40 years, I have never stopped taking thyroid meds.
The cardiologist gave me a long lecture on the fact that dessicated thyroid is not regulated by the FDA & there are no strict guidelines for the manufacture of it. This means that wide variances are allowed in both the active ingredients and the fillers, and neither of these are required to be listed on the labels. (This is why there will probably be no recalls) Now I don’t put a lot of faith in some of the drugs that the FDA does allow, so up until now, I have largely ignored this issue. But in terms of sheer dosing, it could account for such wide variations.
My personal opinion is that uptake is highly variable too. Inadvertently, I took supplement that was high in IRON, not realizing that if I had pooling of T3, the iron would facilitate its release & cause “hyperness”. My RT3 test was normal by the time I had it, but probably the T3 had already released.
I realize that cortisol is at play here too. A few days before this Afib episode, I had an extremely emotional experience & was not entirely recovered from it.
If anyone has suggestions on how to start taking a thyroid hormone again I would welcome your thoughts. I have Hashimoto, so perhaps I would be better off with T4 or a combo? Is there any chance that my thyroid gland still works & will not need thyroid supplement at all after all these years?
Oops. I just reread your post and see that it was WP Thyroid that did this to you, not the Erfa initially. So let me repeat the first part: That is FALSE that desiccated thyroid has “no strict guidelines” and there are “wide variances”. To the contrary, all the prescription NDT’s go by the strict guidelines of the US Pharmacopeia. Doctors are simply CLUELESS about NDT and the standards it does have.
As far as the Erfa you are now using, do know that there have been some pretty bad batches with Erfa this year after they changed their manufacturer. For me personally, I would NOT use Erfa batches this year until we know they have changed the problem that they have so far completely denied exists (in spite of too many patients having trouble with certain batches.) But you have to decide for yourself.
You stated that you may have taken too much, but did the Free’s show that? Then you stated you were raising your NDT? A little confused there, but I’m thinking you mean you are raising the new brand of Erfa….
Hope you figure it all out. For me personally, I would dig deep, looking at all labwork and all possibilities that could have caused this to happen! Good luck!! 🙂
Apologies RE: my above post… I looked & looked on but wasn’t able to see the more recent posts (via my iPhone). Then I made my post & viola – there were the recents ones! DO keep posting everyone on the latest. I still would like to go back to ERFA if it regains it’s efficacy!
Thank you.
Hi,
The last post was August 4th. It is NOW December 10th! WHAT please is the latest on ERFA ?? Has everyone jumped ship and/or drowning in a sea of
no return?
Any comments – ANYONE?
Have ERFA sales plummeted? What’s going on? HOPE to hear some feedback.
“Has everyone jumped ship and/or drowning in a sea of
no return?”
Both. 🙁 I also wonder if sales have plummeted, though. Doesn’t seem so, from what people say on the internet. Locally, none of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to are aware of anything amiss with ERFA Thyroid. This has been one of the most frustrating situations I’ve ever been in. I try not to dwell on it because it’s so stressful and feels so hopeless.
I am new to this site as I’ve been brainwashed by my doctor for way too many years, that I only need Synthroid after my Iodine treatment over 20 years ago. For most of this time I was stable but now for the last few years my TSH/T3/T4 are up and down so we raise/lower the dosage of Synthroid. I have may other symptoms that my doc wants to treat separately (not connected to my thyroid according to the doc), mainly sleeping issues (waking up 20, 25 X a night), high cholesterol to name a few. She is not willing to even try desiccated thyroid. Has anyone can recommend a doctor in Ottawa area of someone who is prescribing it (I would get it at compounding pharmacy here). Any help would be greatly appreciated. I wish I came across ‘Stop the Thyroid madness earlier as it seems that there is a hope 🙂
Hello Elizabeth 🙂 I saw on other forums that ERFA has a list of “open minded” doctors in Canada. If you send them an email or call them they will maybe help you.
Because these posts are in blogs from May and June most people are not reading them anymore. I can’t find an active forum where people are actually posting about Erfa, but this is the place where the bad batches of Erfa came to light. I need to hear more feedback about Erfa. Is there an active forum? These pills are having such a toxic effect on me.
Suze, this is active. But a lot of folks simply moved away from using Erfa to something else. And every person who has commented on here gets a notification of your post.
Yeah, if you join the groups on Facebook, many people just got scared of trying it again. I read a few posts saying the 2017 batches were good and 2015-2016 were problems. I went from suppressed/optimized to hypo and back to normal on the 2017 batch.
Suze I’ve been following this problem with ERFA on several forums but this is now the only one I know of with people still commenting on having bad batches, the others have all gone quiet. I’m also on several of the STTM Facebook groups and a lot of people are saying they are doing fine on the latest batches, those people are mainly in the Eastern part of Canada, or else they’ve switched to something else. I switched to Thyroid-S but don’t feel quite right on it so am still trying to get a good batch of new ERFA, hence I keep coming here. As far as I’ve seen, the batches which people think are ok are: LF03833A/expiry 05/2017, 60 mg (Marjaana and Pete here), LF03140B expiry 10/2016, 60 mg, BN136051 expiry 07/2016, 60mgs, LF03140B expiry 10/2016 60mgs.
Hi Anne,
I’m curious how Thyroid-S made you feel. I have been on another batch of Erfa 5 1/2 grains for about a week and a half now and my hands are cold, depression has set in. When I tried Thyroid-S it felt like it was too strong for me and I was on 5 grains. Perhaps there is some truth to the weakness of Erfa.
I also don’t have the pounding heart I had on Thyroid-S. I did have a lot more energy though, nice long walks with the dog on Thyroid-S. I know Janie, you said that if neither are working then it could be something else so I had bloodwork done yesterday and will see what it says. My gut is telling me I may have needed to lower Thyroid-S (I ran out of it) and now that I only have Erfa, raise it.
Yes, if you had a pounding heart on Thyroid-S, there’s a good chance you have a cortisol or iron problem….or you were simply on too much! By the way, remember that you canNOT go by blood when it comes to cortisol. It has to be saliva. And you need four iron labs.
Thanks Janie, unfortunately I cannot go off my Cortef to get another saliva done, would be just too hard on me and perhaps dangerous.
Interesting reveal in my appointment yesterday,they found a heart murmur and am now going for an echocardiogram coming Monday. What fun!
I was really close to redordering Thyroid-S yesterday as I was feeling so very down and out but would love to hear if those who switched did have to take a lower dose and if so how much lower. I know everyone is different, will see what my labs reveal first.
I am truly grateful to have this forum, without it, would be lost.
:).
Sandra
Ah, Sandra, I didn’t catch you were already on Cortef. Then the question for that is: did you do your Daily Average Temps to find the right physiologic amount? i.e. most women find that in the 25 – 32.5 range? That’s VERY important. So is stress dosing in the face of high stress.
Sandra
Hi Janie,
There is no reply available on your recent comment for me you posted today, so am putting my reply here. Yes, you had previously suggested that, but due to my work each day, am not able to chart temps properly, unable to sit for the required 15 minutes prior as I work in retail and if a customer needs me, I’m up and about. I wish I could though, have tried to lower my HC but unable to.
Is there any other way to gauge? I assume not.
No, there’s no other way that we know of. Hopefully you can figure out a way to do this.
Anne
Hi Sandra, when I first started Thyroid-S I was rather unhappy to be taking it as I felt it wasn’t as ‘safe’ as the US and Canadian NDTs, and I felt a bit on edge for a few weeks, but eventually decided it was mainly caused by my worrying about it. Then gradually my muscles started aching a bit more than usual (I have problems in my low back and shoulders due to an accident some years ago, but when they flare up badly I’m inclined to think that a hypo symptom), now the fingers of my left hand have started feeling painful and stiff when I wake up in the morning, that is an old symptom which began some years ago when I was taking synthetic T4 only, my doctor at the time added in T3 and the pain and stiffness disappeared. Generally I don’t have quite as much energy, and don’t feel quite as stable as I did on ERFA, so I assumed I was going hypo and had a blood test taken to see what was going on. It turned out that my FT4 and FT3 were both higher than usual. I used to take 2.75 grains of Armour and then the same dose of Nature-throid when Armour reformulated. When I first stared ERFA I also took 2.75 grains but then had a batch which seemed stronger so went down to 2.5 grains. In all those years my blood test results have been roughly the same. Since June I have been taking 2.5 grains of Thyroid-S and so can only think that it’s stronger than the others but perhaps the T3 isn’t as bio-available to me, if that makes sense. I haven’t had a pounding heart, or any of the digestive type problems I had on the bad batch of ERFA I got at the end of last year though.
Hi Anne,
Thanks so much for explaining your situation. It all can be so dang confusing and overwhelming. That is an interesting point about the T3 and Thyroid-S. So when your labs showed high Free T3 and T4 did you have to lower or did you keep your dose the same? I am still subpar on my current Erfa but will await my labs and unfortunately have to wait well into the New Year for them.
Anne
Sandra I’m replying here as I can’t reply to your last post to me. You asked if I lowered my dose of Thryoid-S when the blood tests showed higher than usual FT3, but no I didn’t I kept to the same dose, mainly because I don’t feel as good on it as I did on ERFA or NatureThroid or the old Armour, although I’m getting used to it more, or perhaps I’m getting used to being tired! I’m due to see the endo next week and will be interested if the latest test results taken two weeks ago are similar!
I didn’t have a problem with the batch of ERFA that expired in 2017 and I don’t have a thyroid. I went fro hypo to back to normal/suppressed pretty quick. I only switched to Nature-Thyroid because my insurance will cover it and it’s cheaper..which is also working for me. I rather try WP though due to having less ingredients. I tried ThyroidS a few years ago and got very hypo. I don’t know why so many people are pushing it when you look at the list of terrible ingredients.. it’s full of fillers and crap that isn’t needed.
Hi Suze,
I thought I’d reply here just to let you know what has happened to mr. After the ERFA debacle I came to the site frequently. Posted about my poor results with it because of the changes and have since then tried WP THYROID, NATURETHROID AND ARMOUR…….none have which have suited he. I was virtually 100% better on the original ERFA. I am now 4 weeks in to levothyroxine again and just came here to see if this thus debate is still going on. I guess many if us have sort other meds by now.
My progress is slow but I am determined to make levo work……..not much choice left. T3 only will be my final resort.
I feel very angry about ERFA, mostly because we have not been told truthfully what happened to it. Honesty I could graciously accept…….but I’m too old to have the wool pulled over my eyes!
I wish you the best of luck and if course health. X
Sarah, all NDT’s work. Yes people have their favorites, but all are reported as working. So….if you tried WP Thyroid, Naturethroid and Armour and none suited you, that points to you either not raising high enough, or now having an adrenal or iron issue. Promise.
I looked at my current pills (30s and 60s) and they are shinier and different looking than some old ones I had left in my pill cutter from 2013. The old ones are matte finish, no shine. I have never thought my recent horrible ups and downs were due to a change in the Erfa but now I have to. I only got relief from the recent hyper attacks when cutting my dose to 60. Last year I did well on 120 and as high as 150. My endocrinologist was stumped and thought I must need estrogen and testosterone but I won’t take those. Raising the Erfa to 90, the last 2 days, it is too high again and I experienced a brain zap, a bout of diarrhea, and an increase in allover tremor (in other words a “hyper attack”). I started the new batch on May 20. This seems to be when my hyper attacks started and I had to lower the dose. What to do? I even went on Synthroid both combined with Erfa and by itself, in desperation, but felt worse on it. What is the best thing to do while they sort out what happened with the Erfa? There is no other natural thyroid brand in Canada. Please reply – should I keep taking 60 since I didn’t feel sick on that dose? I was just concerned that I was becoming hypo. PS there is no batch number on my pill bottles but the expiry dates for both 30 and 60 are 10/16.
Hi Suze!
Please be careful with your treatment! Your hypothyroidism won’t be the same all your life. It’s normal to change dosage someday if you need it but only after blood tests and analysis. Thyroid pills need at least 6 weeks to reach the maximum of their effect. It’s horrible to say I know but you have to be patient when you change your dosage before changing again. Otherwise you’ll always be up and down (no matter which brand or batch you take). If you feel okay on 60. Stay with it a while and do blood tests in 6 weeks to see what’s going on. I hope you’ll be fine… (I was in the same situation before finding the right dosage for me. I understand how hard it is!)
I would say, just by looking at the expiry date, that it is most likely ‘safe’. I would take it if it had an expiry date of 08/15, for sure – at least I would try it with great confidence.
Dear friends, I’d been fine on my old batch of Erfa Batch 12H021, expiring on 08/ 2015 (pharmacist had pasted ex. 2015/01/04) I had a whole bottle (500).
The new batch I got in November ’14 was one of the ‘changed’ batches; shiny, bad symptoms almost immediately was only 200 pills (no batch no.) expiring 2015/11/17.
Dear Janie Bowthorpe, I wrote saying that I’ve been fine on Erfa and Pfizer 125 mg for almost 12 years. Got a new batch 3 wks ago, expires nov 17, ’15. I’ve changed last week or so, some tender, slightly itchy areas on ribs, one side, now have come up, bad digestion, low energy, a bit depressed. I’m looking at what I should order from US. I understand that the non prescription one from Nutri meds is not nearly as strong so that seems risky to try to figure out how much I’ll need. Or should I go ahead and order the non script anyway?
Can you recommend any particular one. I know an MD in US who may may give me a script. With a script, can you recommend one over another?
I appreciate your help!
I’m feeling good. I have taking this batch since 20.9. and I’m feeling alive again! Bloodtest on monday 3.11., results
were good! My batch is LF03833A/exp 05/2017, 60 mg. Feeling really positive at the moment, it’s great after shitty 8-9 months!
thanks Pete for letting us know your improved, would love to find a good batch to rule out that it isn’t something else. Curious what were your symptoms and how long were you unwell before now?
It seems like this topic has slowed down in that either people have given up or perhaps are seeing improvement and are getting on with their lives.
For myself however, being in Canada, with no other option other than Erfa, have tried Thyroid-S which is an improvement but still i am not feeling my best. I then tried another batch of a 2017 expiry Erfa but immediately had hypo symptom of being freezing at night while on it along with low grade depression.
I would love to hear from those that have been on a 2017 expiry batch that have had good improvement so that I can understand if this is perhaps something else going on with me but I have to say, this all feels to much like the hypo hell Iived in for 5 years before finding out about dessicated thyroid.
thank you
Sandra…bottom line: if you haven’t felt better on Thyroid-S, it means you didn’t raise high enough, or you’ve got an adrenal or iron problem you haven’t addressed fully yet. This doesn’t take away from what happened to Erfa–it’s pretty clear that something went wrong with it. But it does underscore that there’s more going on with you. Read https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Hi Janie,
Thanks for the feedback, I am going to get a full iron panel done as I don’t think it is adrenal, have been on HC full replacement dose for quite sometime now.
I stopped that as it is impossible to take my temps accurately for a week, I never sit for 15 minutes in one time at my full time job. I wish I could though. I take 40 – 42 mg of cortef and have been for years now spread out for 6 doses and thought that 40 mg is a phsiological replacement dose. I have tried on occasions to lower either at night or the end of the day dose but end up shakey, not dealing with stress etc. Currently even on the above dose and about in the last month am waking up with dark circles under my eyes in spite of proper sleep. I know it can be a number of things and have been working on my health for many years now, no gluten, tried Paleo etc, walk each day that I can for 30 minutes and am now in menopause so I know that doesn’t help things.
I have an appt on the 8th to get a stress test and any blood work I need and need to know all the critical blood work. I’m having inflammation symptoms too along with achy lungs. I am also under a lot of pressure at work and feel very stressed along with on and off depression and am not handling stress well. Trying to keep my head up! It shouldn’t be so hard and all was really well before last January, never ever thought this would be happening again. Thank you for replying to me, it means alot, if only to just type it here what I’m going through.
Dianne
Sandra, I’ve also noticed a slow down in people posting about ERFA. imo, I think people have probably moved on to something else or given up trying to get ERFA’s attention. It’s harder for those of us in Canada to move on, though, since ERFA is *it* for ndt. For me, I find it to be a waste of time to even bother with the people at ERFA anymore, since it’s obvious they don’t seem to really care. As long as they are making money off people that are tolerating it, I don’t feel ERFA is going to do much more than they’ve already done, which is test the ‘concentration’ of the tabs (and not the actual ingredients).
As for me, I’m still on some old stock of 60 mg ERFA that I found, but I don’t have much left. I’m also supplementing that with Nutri-Meds desiccated thyroid. I take one 60 mg tab of old ERFA, and one 130 mg capsule of either bovine or porcine Nutri-Meds. I seem to feel better on the bovine. I’m not sure how strong the Nutri-Meds are, though. The caps say 130 mg, but I have no idea if the strength is equivalent to 130 mg of ERFA Thyroid. I think I’m going to up the Nutri-Meds, though. Eventually, it looks like I’ll be on Nutri-Meds only, so hopefully Nutri-Meds is actually working…
Hi Sandra, It will definitely be more expensive to be on Nutri-Meds since I’ll have to take so many (I’ve been increasing it since I’m feeling more and more hypo). I don’t think this (Nutri-Meds) will be a permanent solution; although I don’t have any other plan right now. Yes, I do have a thyroid.
This is my first run with ERFA. I had been using Armour but accepted the alternate when Armour was out of stock.
I received ERFA 125 mg., Expiration 04/17, Lot LF03728A and have been taking them now for two months.
I was taking 1-grain of Armour (60 mg.) and am now taking 1/2 of a 125 mg. ERFA tablet.
Subjectively, the ERFA formulation doesn’t feel quite as biologically active or potent as the Armour within the first few hours of taking them in the AM (most of you will know what I am referring to) but they seem to have a more steady effect across the 24 hour period. I have not had any tests during this period so I have nothing objective to report. So, different, yes; inferior, can’t tell.
I’m somewhat confused by the frequent references to feeling the effects of thyroid pills right after taking them. I have been on armour and, after the reformulation, compounded thyroid and never feel anything after taking a pill. The medication seems to be working, but I am not sure why I don’t feel it when so many others refer to their body “singing” or something similar after taking a pill. Strange.
I’m not a caffeine drinker but I would compare it to a shot of caffeine.. you kinda get a pick-me-up as it kicks in. Not that extreme but close. If I’m late for a dosage, I find myself yawning.
Thanks for the response. I did put it under my tongue when I was on Armour, but I switched to compounded and sublingual doesn’t seem to work well anymore for some reason.
I wrote to dr. Knafo, you can read a copy. Janie, thank you for updating us.
Dear dr. Knafo,
I’ve been taking your Thyroid for several years, being on stable dosage (full supplementation) I’ve never expected to become hypothyroid again. Unfortunately I did when starting the new batch.
I spent the last 3 months on looking for the optimal dosage, spent some extra money on doctor’s appointments and tests. I had to increase my dosage from 90 mg to 120 mg. The test results are like they used to be, but I don’t feel as well as before.
I used to take Armour Thyroid and when it was reformulated, I only had to increase my dosage by 7,5 mg. So I really wonder, what is wrong with your tablets? Taking them sublingually should minimise the effect of different additives or the tablets being harder pressed for instance.
I appreciate your concern and testing the new batches due to our complaints, but since I trusted your products it would have taken a very long time to figure out what was wrong with me all of the sudden if Janie Bowthorpe wouldn’t write about it. I’m very disappointed so I’m going back to Armour Thyroid. Such a shame since your Thyroid is much easier available to me.
Here we go again 🙁 I bought a 500 ct 125 mg bottle in Oct of 2013. I ran out a few weeks ago and got more from a different place. The first time I used them I knew it…..they were MUCH softer but tasted the same so I let it go. Fast forward to a week or so ago I start feeling really tired again and start gaining that weight I just lost and it hit me…NOOOOO, NOT AGAIN!!!!! I went through this with Armour and now Erfa,when I was finally feeling good again 🙁
I was previously taking 3 grains so I bumped it up 4. We’ll see.
My pills have spots on them and exp in 2017.
Jenn
That’s weird. I got a 2017 batch and had NO SPOTS on them that the others are talking about. I went from Hypo to back to normal pretty quick..they were kicking in instantly as always. Bloodwork confirmed I was suppressed and back to normal again.
I’m on Nature-Thyroid right now..which is also working great. The only downside is the chalky taste if you don’t want to swallow it but I’ve gotten used to it. I just rinse my mouth out with water after they’re done disolving and swallow. I only switched to Naturethyroid from ERFA because it’s easier for me to get an rx. This ordering from overseas thing is getting old and expensive. I’ll never trust Armour again and ThyroidS made me hypo a few years ago when I tried it. It was awful.
i have noticed only discolouration or specks if they have not been kept in a bottle or slightly damp, i have to cut my pills, which is a right pain as they tend to crumble anyway, so check to see if your pills might be being affected by moisture, i keep my pills in the brown bottle they come in, in the fridge because my house temp is 27c as otherwise it is to cold for me. I personally think the new 2017 batches are more potent. i am having to take a grain and a half and 25 mcgs t4 but may put this up to 50 mcgs every 2 days and see how i go, 2 grains of the new efra 2017 batch was to much for me, on the 2016 i’d been on it over 6 weeks and fine. drs have said they must give me pills all from the same batch in future.
omg i had a batch of the 2016 it was sub potent and i can prove it because my t4 was 11 and my t3 was 5.2 i was taking 25mcgs t4 and 1 and 1/4 grains erfa and that was the same blood result as if i was still on 100mcgs t4 when t4 was still good for me, so i ended up on 2 grains of erfa and was getting better (over 6 weeks fine) upset tummy stopped no palpitations, then new batch of of erfa 2017 within 48 hrs palpitations all night, so dropped it, to 50mcg t4 1 grain erfa symptoms came back including upset tummy, so i’m going to try the 25mcgs t4 and 1 and 1/2 grain erfa, i need stability. the pharmacy also gave me 200 pills but 2 different 2017 batches in the same pill bottle, that might be hell.
Mostly to Ruth: Sorry I didn’t get back to you on this sooner. I’ve been frantically busy.
I did try to get information about a possible Health Canada recall, but this time they were so tight lipped I got nowhere. I’m about to start on a “new” batch, expiry date May/17; but first I want to get tested to establish a baseline, and I haven’t had the time to do even that. The new pills are a bit blotchy and a shade darker, but the difference is nothing like those pictured on this site. I’ll let everyone know if I start seeing problems with the new batch. Best of luck, everyone!
Thea, do you mean ERFA was tight-lipped about a possible Health Canada recall, or that Health Canada was tight-lipped? I have a couple of 2017 tabs (LF03831B expiry 05/17). These tabs are smaller than my old stock. My old stock tabs are really white in colour, and matte in appearance. The new 2017 tabs I mentioned have ALOT of brown specks, probably about 40/50% of the tab is speckled. It’s also glossy in appearance. I haven’t tried the 2017 stock; it looks *so* different, I’m anxious about trying them. I wonder what the brownish specks are – cellulose, maybe? I hate speculating (wondering… being fearful), but that’s the position ERFA has left us in, imo.
I also wonder, if there was a recall in-the-making, you would think that this information would have trickled down to at least some of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to about the ‘ERFA issue’. It’s surprising to me that NONE of the many pharmacists I’ve spoken to, while explaining my problems with the new ERFA, have heard anything about it. I’ll guess that I’ve spoken to approximately 20 pharmacists in my search for old stock. Then again, a couple of them haven’t even heard of ERFA Thyroid.
My 04/2017 Lot: LFO 3727A batch does not have any specks or discoloration to them. That is weird…I wonder if it’s mold from being poorly sealed/stored before it was shipped to you?
I’m pretty sure the specks aren’t mold. The other two bad batches I had with expiry dates of 2016 also had brown specks. Strange that your 2017 batch has no specks, though.
Hi Thea 🙂 Thank you for your message. I’m not surprised for Health Canada. Confidential confidential… 😉 I’ve asked the same question to many pharmacists about a recall but they all said “No recall”. 2 pharmacists talked about a short back order but that’s all. Honestly I trusted them. I hope that you will be okay. You’re absolutely right to be tested before taking the pills. It’s the best way to see if they make a difference or not. Best of luck to you and please give us a feedback 🙂
Hi Ruth, Dianne… Sorry for the confusion! My Oct. 27 post was related to earlier ones I made in this thread (Oct. 2&3), in which I said a pharmacist had mentioned a HC recall. When I asked for a copy of their notification or a link to it, though, I got denial that there had ever been a recall – as if the previous conversation had never happened. I have not contacted Erfa or HC; I don’t expect any better luck with that than the numerous others who have tried had.
Apologies, too, for taking so long to respond. For some reason I can’t get the comments notifications to work – trying something else this time – and I keep forgetting to come back here and look. Will try to check more often! 🙂
I dont’ think that the size of the pill necessarily means that what is inside is different. Erfa clearly said that the manufacturer changed so the machines/mold that make pills are maybe different too.Erfa is still working for me and I’m happy to read other good testimonies about it 🙂
Yeah, it’s been a few days on them now and I’m no longer freezing or fatigued so clearly they are working for me even though there is something different about them. I’m still going to get blood work soon just for curiosity to see where the numbers are now since I was feeling like crap being without anything.
I am so happy for you 🙂
It’s good to do blood tests. It’s important to know what’s going on in our body (even if numbers often are chinese for us -_- )
Thanks Ruth. I just wanted to update you that I have had bloodwork done after the 2017 ERFA and everything was back to being suppressed. I know TSH doesn’t mean much but I got back down to the 0.0’s where I feel good at.
This is great 🙂 It’s a good Christmas present! I wish you all the best!
Mo
Erfa update
125mg
batch LFO3728A expiry 04/2017
Have taken for 1 week and better than last batch taken (13c06 expiry 03/2016 -had bad pains in legs when increased dose and gradual decline over the 3 months I took it). Its definitely the newer tablets. Not convinced yet but will see how I go.
Anyone else on 2017 and doing ok?
Yep, on 2017 as well. I saw at least 2 other people also say they’re on 2017 batches and it’s better. Mine expire 4/17. There is something different about them but now that it’s been a few days, they’re definitely kicking in. I was starting to go hypo from not having anything and I can at least say my energy is better and internal coldness is gone.
Pains in legs or charlie horses can be from a lack of magnesium so you might want to Google that if all else fails.
Update on ERFA expiration Date: 04/2017
Lot: LFO 3727A
125mg.
About me: Taking ERFA for since 2009 and this is my first try of the “new” batch..or anything after a 2016 expiration date. I normally have a suppressed/optimized TSH but have been going hypo while waiting for the mail and trying to get into a “good” doctor for a new rx of something else.
Pills are slightly larger.. almost like an M&M in size which is not normal.
Taste sweeter, like there is definitely more sugar. I wonder if the people saying their heart beat faster were reacting to the sugar? Could be if you have the same reaction to eating candy or some sugared junk food. I know that is a common reaction to people who avoid it out of their diets completely..diabetic or not.
Pills are softer, pretty much dissolve instantly when you kinda suck on them or just put them under your tongue.
I’m taking slightly less than my normal dosage because I don’t want to jump into a high dosage right off the bat after being off them…but I’m feeling them kicking in instantly..so they are working. It’s just too soon yet to confirm how well they are working or if they are indeed stronger or weaker than previous batches. I know TSH is useless per STTM, but since I know mine was going up due to NOT being on anything, if my numbers are going back “BELOW RANGE” to what they normally are then for me, personally, it will be a good indication it’s working.
All I’m saying by my post is something is definitely different if they got bigger in size and also scary the company is denying a change. Obviously something changed if the size changed. I still want to try something else…mostly because I’m sick of paying out of pocket for ERFA when Naturethroid and WP can be paid for with my insurance at the local pharmacy once I find a new doctor.
I’ve only just found this latest page, but thanks for coming back about your new tablets and the fact you feel them kicking in as soon as you take them. I’d love to get back to ERFA because I felt good on them originally and because they were just about acceptable to my endo, but I still can’t get hold of any with a 2017 expiry date. I’ve been taking Thyroid-S since June and am now used to them and they’re certainly very much cheaper, but they don’t have a known pharmaceutical company name behind them, so are totally unacceptable to everyone I mention them to here in UK!
Hi Sandra, I’m in England which may make a difference. I paid £135 for my last (bad) batch of 500 x 2 grains of ERFA, but I can buy 1000 x 1 grains of Thyroid-S for between £34.99 and £95 depending on which pharmacy I buy from. I can’t get an NHS prescription from my GP here, only a private one from a private doctor, which then has to go through one of our specialist importers and works out more expensive in the end!
Jen
Hi Anne, I actually tried Thyroid-s a few years ago and it made me more hypo than NewArmour. I hate all the colored additives in it, the colors. The taste reminded me of sucking on dry pasta… just colored, processed starch that isn’t good for us.
The batch of 2017 I bought was from the UK… you can always email them and ask what their current batches are.
I’m actually on Nature-thyroid right now which I rather not be due to the cellulose. But I’ve had bloodwork done and for me it’s the same as when I was on ERFA. The only reason I switched is because I’m in the USA and if I can at least get a doctor to write me any kind of rx, then my insurance will cover it.
Hi! Brand new to using desiccated thyroid. I’ve been on 200 of the synthroid for about 15 years. Complained to my GO to see an endocrinologist and he always said my numbers were in range so there was no need. I had crazy pain between my shoulder blades for years. Given anti inflammatories and codeine lol.
Anyways I switched GPs and finally got to see an endocrinologist. I asked for desiccated thyroid. I swear the first day…..no cold hands…..and by the end of this week no more muscle aches and my hair coming out has slowed considerably. I also actually feel alert. I’m assuming I’m on Erfa. No idea how to find out the batch number etc….I do feel slightly dizzy and a little bloated but I’m celiac….not sure what’s in the pills. Anyways I feel better than on synthroid but I shouldn’t feel dizzy. Do I lower the desiccated dose a bit or get off it?
Thanks for the forum! Still learning about desiccated pills!
If Erfa is not good anymore, what are other options available for Canadians? I checked with several local pharmacies and they all say Erfa is the only NDT they sell. All online pharmacies I found require a prescription from a USA licensed doctor. Looks like switching to NP Thyroid by Acella is the right move, but how do I buy it from Canada?
I’ve just received a new prescription of ERFA and am disappointed to see that it appears to be the same batch as last time, ie LF0305 02/17.
I’ve got an appointment with my NHS endo in 10 days time (it’s only taken since May to get it) when I hope to get him to prescribe West Throid instead. What a nightmare!
Hi everyone,
First of all thank you for a helpful & insightful forum.
I have hypothyroidism and been on ERFA for 3 month before travelling to Europe where they only had ARMOUR. I’m back on ERFA now for a month (3 graen) but I’ve had a bad reaction and all my hypo symptoms are back 🙁
I would like to change to the NP thyroid by Acella but the universal drugstore where I usually get my NDT does not distribute NP thyroid by Acella.
Does anyone know a pharmacy where I can aquire NP thyroid? Preferably a pharmacy that can send the drug overseas.
If you prefer you can email me directly at zaimlay@gmail.com
thanks zai
On 8 grains of “new” Erfa (4×125 mg), my FT4 levels were barely mid-range, and my FT3 levels suboptimal. I have had to raise it to 10 grains daily.
Is there any risk of shortages of other brands, like WP Thyroid or NP Thyroid?
I have also been considering Thyro Gold, as it has been getting great reviews, but some claim porcine thyriod is closer to human chemistry than bovine thyroid…so I’d love to hear from anyone having tried Thyro Gold!
What is the expiration date on your bottle though? But yeah, this is what I was worried about with attempting to try ERFA again… needing MORE.
ThyroGold was also recommended to me by people having success with it. If I were to actually try it, I might just get blood work tested more often just for curiosity or peace of mind.
I don’t think pig vs ox or cow or whatever thyroid matter at this point in time. The more sources the better because it seems we’re all getting desperate as the years go by. If one animal is half the human chemistry, seems we would just need more of the other kind to make the same amount. Ugh, remember the Armour shortage? That was scary especially for those without thyroids.
Anna, Jen… Check out nutripakonline.com also. Seems to be like Thyrogold at half the price. It was mentioned by another poster on this site (ck earlier posts) and it is offered in bovine or porcine.
The Erfa pills I am currently taking expire 03/16. I have 2 grain pills (125 mg), the label is no longer blue/white but pink/white.
Lola,
Thank you so much!
It’s great to have alternatives…I am in Europe (Belgium), and all pharmacies I have been in contact with no longer carry Armour, they only carry Erfa…which means I have no options should I ever find it ineffective even after raising it. I cannot get NP Thyroid or WP Thyroid here, so I am stuck with Erfa…
Anna those sound like the ones I have, batch 13C06 expiry 03/16 125mgs, with a pink and white label. I got mine last November and have been told they were made at the old factory in Belgium but they seem to have some new filler to which I’m allergic, they caused an upset stomach, made me feel faint, dizzy, have palpitations, after three days I went back to an old jar and haven’t taken any more. I’ve heard from four others around the world with bad reactions to that batch and one person who said it was fine. I’ve switched to Thyroid-s and will now try NP or WP.
Hi
I need a good advice…I live in denmark and use Erfa Thyroid but I am perhaps able to switch to NP Thyroid, Westhroid, Wrsthorid Pure og Nature Pure. Which one would you recommend?
Why is that Janie? To me, it seems like WP would be the next best option due to less fillers but I have noticed Naturethyroid seems to be more people on all the groups.
RLC Labs does strong marketing with doctors which is probably why u see a lot of folks on Naturethroid. But WP Thyroid is a good product, too. I just personally like the Acella company a lot.
If you ever switch to another brand in Denmark, I’d appreciate if you let me know…as I guess a brand available in one EU country could be imported to other Member States?
I am desperate to find some alternatives, as I can only get Erfa in Belgium, and I hate being stuck with one brand…I have already had to raise it to 10 grains daily. This means one 100 ct bottle will last less than a month…I don’t know about other countries, but in Belgium, NDT is very expensive…which makes me even more reluctant to pay for something that does not work optimally. The few doctors who prescribe it also charge several hundred € a visit, so it’s very frustrating…a vicious circle, to be honest.
Janie, can I interpret your comment to mean that Nature-Throid works better than Armour for most patients?
Anna, no, I’m not saying that about Naturethroid vs Armour. There are patients on both and from what we can tell about reports from the last few years, they have both working well for patients. In fact, other than Erfa, that’s true with all desiccated Thyroid products. Sure there might be some odd reports here and there, which may have something to do with a patients low iron or cortisol issue that the NDT is revealing, or due to a patient reacting to a filler, or that odd bad batch here or there. There might even be the latter going on right now with some batches of Armour. But overall from reports. they all work (other than this year’s batch of Erfa in places).
Jen do you know which batch to avoid??? I am not sure if I dare to buy Erfa again and if I dont, I am not sure which brand I should try. I am afraid to end up with all the symptoms again…
Hope.. The bad batch of erfa that caused my dizziness, light-headedness is batch # LF03139A – exp 10/2016.. 100# – 60 mg. I have a terrible habit of leaving a few tabs
in my bottles of erfa so I have a few bottles around the house that I know were okay. The good batches (most of them probably not available anymore) are…
I2616 -exp 7-2015, 100# 30 mg, I3011, exp 3-2016 – 500# – 30 mg., I2026 – exp 4/2015, 100# – 60 mg. I think these are all from the Belgium mfg facility. My dosage
is 60 mg one day and 90 mg the next, alternating. So I often purchase the 60 mg and 30 mg bottles.
When Armour prices started going up in the spring, I decided to stock up on erfa and boy.. .did I stock up. I have several unopened bottles of erfa that I am scared to
use until we have a more comprehensive list (wish it was posted in one place) of ‘bad’ batches. The ones I have on hand that I am fearful of using are..
LF03140B – exp 10/2016 -500# 60 mg, LF03057A – exp 10/2016 – 100# 30 mg. It would be nice if there was a formal recall so we could get refunds on
unopened bottles.
Hope, you should do just fine on either the WP Thyroid by RLC Labs or the NP Thyroid by Acella Labs. I am taking the WP now and doing fine. My
hubby was recently dx hypo and his doc gave him a rx for the NP this last time and I tried it for a week or so and loved it (had hubby on the good erfa
when he was first dx). He transitioned from the old erfa to NP with no problems. When I have my yearly thyroid ckup, I plan on asking for an rx for the
NP since it seems to be so much like the old Armour. The 30 mg is a tiny, tiny pill tho and difficult to split. Hubby is on 45 mg per day.
Lola I was told by a friend that her batch of 1 grain LF03140B 10/16 is fine but I haven’t tried it so don’t know for sure. Thank you for mentioning how good WP and NP are, I am going to try those I think because I’m not happy with the Thyroid-S which I switched to.
Hi, Anne. Well, that tears it (friend doing fine on LF03140B) if that is true and I have no reason to doubt your friend’s experience. That means that the problem may lie with one of the fillers in the ‘new’ Erfa, a filler that people react very differently to. It seems some of us are reacting instantly to something in the ‘new’ Erfa tabs. That begins to make sense, doesn’t it? The labs would only be checking for the active ingredients and their potency. They wouldn’t be lying if they said it checked out but I wonder if they are being straight with us about different additives.
The same thing is going on with the ‘new’ Armour… that is.. some folks doing fine on it and others doing horribly on it and everyone acknowledges that it is the filler in Armour that is the problem… it impedes absorption. If those of us who are not doing well on the ‘new’ Erfa are having an allergic reaction, that will be hard to quantify and address with the powers that be.
The thyroid S has tons of additives and food colorings in it, thiroyd not so much. I think you will be thrilled with NP Thyroid by Acella. It is soooo like the old Armour that so many of us did well on for
so many years.
The new Armour mostly caused problems in 2009 and early 2010. Today, folks seem to report doing fine on it overall.
Anna
Does this mean that Armour reformulated again; not back to the original formula, but decreased cellulose somewhat?
Has anyone noticed a difference between various strentghs; I spent a few months on Armour back in 2012 (15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 mg pills), and did very well on it as long as I chewed the pills up. I raised it to 5 grains daily and felt fine. Then I switched to 300 mg pills, and crashed within a couple of days. So I wonder if the larger pills contain more cellulose, making them less effective? On the 5 grain pills, I took one and a half pill a day (7,5 grains), and I might just as well have taken sugar pills…
Jen
I don’t know Hope. All I’m getting from many posts is that it seems like the 2016 batches. Only a few people seemed to have chanced trying anything after 2017 and it’s not enough to go by… I was on the same dosage for a few years, optimized and my last bottle expired in 2015.
I don’t know what to do. I chickened out and ordered a 2017 batch of ERFA along with Naturethroid because I’m desperate and the website I order from has limited options. I’ve read through enough posts on here and FB that basically confirm Naturethyroid is the next most popular option especially for those of us without thyroids. I’ll either try both or send one back and demand a refund. I last used Armour back in 09 and will never trust them again.
But didn’t Naturethroid also reformulate just like Armour in about 2011? I took it after Armour in 2009 and was happy with it but then heard it was re-formulating and didn’t want to go through the same thing again so that’s when I switched to ERFA. I wonder if the people doing well on it are new users or were already taking it before 2011. I’m considering WP or NP, but would be far happier if I could find some good ERFA.
Yeah, I was concerned about that too Anne. I know I did try Naturethyroid back in 2009 after the Armour change but probably didn’t give it enough of a chance back then… the fact that it didn’t dissolve under the tongue well was enough of a turn off for me…. it’s what I liked abut ERFA so much. I guess we have to accept there won’t be a perfect medication that never changes… we’re all going to have to go through this every few years for whatever reason..whether it’s a reformulation or change in processing plants or something stupid. It sucks..but that is with any medication or drug..they pretty much own us in that way.
I’m in the USA and the only thing that sucks for me about ERFA was always having a hell of a time getting an rx for it..even half an rx for half the dosage I was taking. At least if I give Naturethyroid another try, I can eventually get a doctor to write a prescription for my full dosage or partial dosage and I can get it in a local pharmacy which my insurance will cover. WP or Acella look better to me but there are no guarantees they’ll never change either.
Where are the updates on this story? Now people on the FB groups are saying it was a bad batch and they received a newer batch of ERFA and feel good. But since I do not have a thyroid, I do not want to take the chance. I come to this page looking for confirmation and you haven’t updated since May.
If you read through the posts, you will see that ERFA continues to deny there is any wrong with ERFA Thyroid. So it doesn’t look like there are any updates per se. One poster says she emailed Dr. Knafo just recently, in the last week or so; and he still says there is nothing changed/wrong.
I have actually read the posts including on the FB groups and there are some people who swear they are doing fine again on the newer batches but it seems most people are reluctant to try them. I find that strange. I guess I was looking for more confirmation from real people that the 2017+ batches were good again but apparently nobody wants to touch that yet.
Dr. Knafo seems like a puppet. All I’m getting out of the ERFA posts is that they keep changing processing companies. But thanks, I decided to go ahead and purchase something else for backup now.
It was more than one bad batch Jen. Mine were bought in November 2013, in a new style jar but made at the old factory in Belgium apparently. People are still being dispensed ‘bad’ batches of the tablets here in England even now. Those are from the new factory in Spain. I have had a long email conversation with Dr Knafo, approaching 30 emails, in which he is variously concerned, having an independent analysis carried out on all the batches complained about out, saying nothing is wrong, asking if I’ve had new blood tests done and even one asking how I am doing now. This episode has convinced my endo that ERFA was never any good anyway and he’s even more enthusiastic about Armour which I don’t get on with. I agree with Dianne that the problem doesn’t seem to be hormone content but some other ingredient or damage to an ingredient possibly during transit. Unfortunately there will probably be fewer and fewer updates because many of us with ‘bad’ batches of ERFA are all having to change to other brands. The ERFA company aren’t admitting there is any problem and are waiting for all the fuss to die down. I can only suggest that you ask what batches your chosen pharmacy can supply you with and then do a search for them here and on some of the Facebook pages dedicated to thyroid issues to see if they are mentioned as being good or bad.
Reporting on a new batch that I tried a few days ago. I took one 60 mg tablet (sublingually) from a refill that I was able to find in my search for (hopefully) older stock. I can report that Lot #12K16 exp. 11/15 is a no-go. My reactions weren’t quite as bad as the reactions I had to two previous (different batches), which lasted (the reactions) for several days. The reactions I had to this batch, though, were dizziness, off-balance-‘ness’, spaciness, confusion, headache, sheer exhaustion, I got really hot/flushed, then I got really cold/shivering, stomach burning/belching. I felt so wiped out about 1 hour after taking the tablet, that I basically passed out on my bed for a couple of hours. These reactions gradually wore off as the day went on. I had saved about a week’s worth of reliable older stock that I’ve been taking for a few months now (exp is earlier 2015, and I don’t have the lot #), so I went back on those the next day, and I was ‘back to normal’.
I have since been able to find some different 60 mg 2015 tablets. These are lot #12D261 exp. 04/2015. I pray these are older stock as I’ve only got 3 tablets left of my reliable stock. I also picked up 2 – 60 mg tablets of 2017 stock Lot# LF03831B expiry 05/2017, just to try these. It’s pretty bad, but I’m SCARED to try either one, and I have to set aside a day when I can afford to be sicker/(or, I feel almost poisoned?). If anyone has info on either of these, I’d appreciate it.
But you’ve only taken a few pills? It’s really not even enough time to know though if you only have taken a couple pills. If you were getting hypo like the rest of us, it’s not like popping an Advil for a headache and expecting instant good feeling. It needs to build up a little, and bring all your levels back down. All you are really describing is your adrenals crashing (passing out on your bed) which will happen to anyone getting NT back into their system after being hypo or going from nothing/synthetic back to NT.
I am seeing ERFA being sold with a much further expiration date of 11/2016 which I do not want to waste money on in if nobody has tried it for at least 1-2 weeks.
No, you’re wrong. You don’t know my history with ndt, nor does it seem you have read all of the previous posts. I’ve been on ERFA Thyroid for over 6 years now, and did pretty well on it. Then the bad ERFA batches started appearing in late 2012, early 2013. In Jan 13 I had a bad reaction to one bad tablet in one of the bad batches; and yes, instantly, after one tablet. If you look through the posts, there are some of us that have reacted almost instantly. This reaction is more of an allergic reaction to one, or more of the ingredients. Plus, it did seem to cause instant hypo-feelings in me, as well. I don’t know what the heck is in this newly manufactured ERFA Thyroid that is causing these reactions – but whatever it is, it isn’t good.
I went back to my old stock each time after having 3 separate reactions to 3 separate lot#’s, and did fine. So this time, I tried another batch again, and reacted instantly after just one tablet, so thought I would report the lot# and expiry date. I won’t be taking any more tablets from any of the batches that give me this bad reaction; so, yes, my post was about my reaction after ‘popping’ one tablet. If it did, in fact, cause my adrenals to crash, as well; then, this is also a problem that ERFA should be addressing/acknowledging.
I will throw my hat (name) in the ring as one who has done fantastic on natural desiccated thyroid for almost twenty years. I went on the old Armour back in the mid-nineties and switched
to Erfa in 2009 after the reformulation of Armour without skipping a beat. No problems whatsoever. When my old Erfa ran out and I reordered a batch which was due to expire in 10/16,
I became light-headed, dizzy and felt like I was going to pass out after just a few days. Since then, I have been ‘shopping around’ for a substitute and settled on WP Thyroid and I am
doing just fine on it.. same dosage, no dizziness, no light-headiness etc. All this happened back in the spring of this year. Oh, I have never had iron or adrenal problems.
By the by… has anyone noticed that most of the problem Erfa seems to have a 10/16 epiry date? I read somewhere that a person is doing just fine on a batch.. lot # LF03508A, expiry 2/17.
Maybe, maybe (fingers crossed), the powers that be did have a problem with the first batches coming out of the mfg in Spain but has now fixed the problem? If so, what a shame that they
don’t share this with us. I would switch back to Erfa in a NY minute.
No, that is what I’m trying to figure out. I’m seeing expiration dates for May 2016 and November 2016 on some sites. What is the problem batch..anyone even know for sure?
OK folks, I think that it is about time to get our complaints together and talk to HealthCanada. As I said, we’re in the middle of a move, but once that is complete, it’s time. IMHO, ERFA’s move to a new manufacturing facility was a mistake. In their initial response to Janie, they state that they haven’t changed their formulation, but my question regarding raw product source went unanswered. I can not begin to tell you all how this has affected my life. ERFA, in its old formulation, was the dessicated thyroid hormone that gave me my life back. Why it worked so well for me, I don’t really know, but it did. I have asked to see the results of their investigation and have been told that I could see IF I would sign some sort of non-disclosure (if nothing is wrong, why would I NEED to sign a non-disclosure). We need to pull in the other thyroid sites on this and approach them en masse. I am willing to help with a lot of the work, but we can not just accept this. If nothing else, then I may employ a testing laboratory to compare batches and share my own results. ERFA’s response, quite frankly, surprises me. They seemed to be very reputable and responsive to their pts in the past. Saying there is not an issue when so many people are having problems coupled with the fact that the “Investigation” results are being held very close to the vest indicates to me that there IS most definitely a problem.
Angie
You’ll need to be very careful how you present this. i.e. it will have to be clear that anyone who is now doing bad on Erfa was, in fact, doing fabulous before i.e no other symptoms whatsoever and for a long while. Honesty with oneself is crucial here for the integrity of what is presented. There have been some on here who clearly have low cortisol and/or low iron, and that can make Erfa look like it’s the problem, when in reality, the problem was the iron/cortisol.
Another good argument is presenting honestly how much better one is doing on another brand of the same amount.
Hi Janie,
I am in Canada and my situation is that my hypothyroid symptoms over the last 6 months were getting worse, bit by bit over time, with the exception of feeling better on only one batch (I get only a months worth of pills at a time) of pills. I have been on Erfa’s thyroid for 5 years now and been balanced on hydrocortisone as well for years.I won’t get into the details but for me, well, lets say that even though I was not functioning like before, I would forget just how great I was doing, basically back to the accepting a new normal. Well, let me tell you, this past week at work has been highly stressful and I put in longer days than usual which would have landed me on my butt (but not before January it wouldn’t have) this weekend. And today, my first day off, I was up at 6am, cleaning the house, whipped up some paleo pancakes before driving for an hour and a half for a fun day (which I have had next to none of since this Erfa disaster happened, even with taking 3, 1 week vacations this summer) to view a lottery show home, went for dinner, walked around Home Sense, drove back home, walked the dog for 30 minute and am not wiped.
So, why did I have a great day and actually a great week? Mmmmm, could it be the Thyroid-S I’ve started at the beginning of the week? I now have 3 full bottles (3 months supply) of Erfa’s thyroid sitting in my cupboard of which I am fearful to try again and have spent my hard earned money on!!! Thyroid-S is far more expensive but so is not being able to do my job well.
As well, I find this very very interesting. I thought I had entered into menopause as my last menses was Oct 2 last year. Well is it also a coincidence that after being on Thyroid-S for a few days that for the first time in a year it returned?
I truly wonder.
How are you getting Thyroid-S? I have looked into it, but can’t seem to find a way to get it. I have also looked at another Thai brand called Thiroid, but again, no way of reaching the company that makes it.
RIght now I take a compounded NDT. Tried to switch back to my last batch of ERFA, and same as last may, they seem to not work. I thought I would try again. Thinking it might have been something else.
I am heading to Thailand in Jan for three months and would love to know I can get something there that works.
Hi Darcy,
so sorry I have not been here for sometime. my apologies, my life has been extremely busy and stressful. There is a facebook page for THyroid-S and that should help you.
Anne
Sandra, when you switched to Thyroid-S did you take the same dose as before or did you increase or decrease it at all? I’ve switched on the same dose and am not sure, feel slightly jittery, not quite a stable as I was on ERFA. Not sure if it’s the Thyroid-S or something else.
Hi Anne,
Yes I too found the same sort of symptoms as I took the same dose but I have been dealing with extreme stress at work and as I’m also on hydrocortisone was not sure if all I was experiencing was at all related to not enough HC or the dose of Thyroid-S. So then I was feeling quite warm and decided to lower by 30 mg and ended up quite chilly at night so put it back up by 15 mg. I will stick with that and see how I do. Big thing I’ve been experiencing is serious heart pounding at night, probably adrenal related though.
Cynthia
How did you get them into Canada? I have the source, but when I select shipping to Canada its a no go! You can email me privately at cynthia.ryan @ gmail . com
Hi Cynthia,
That’s weird. I will check into it and email.
Jen
I agree. I’m one of the ones who was on ERFA for years perfectly with no symptoms and I do not have a thyroid. I ran out of a good supply and saw this mess everyone was in and have been afraid to waste money on a reformulation or bad batch. A lot of these posts on here are not helpful to those of us NOT new to NT. Some people are simply describing their body’s reaction to just getting on NT. Or, maybe just maybe they only need a minimum dosage of NT anyway because they still have a real thyroid that works.
NT is sort of like a stimulant. If you were going hypo like I currently am, and start getting it back into your system.. you will have some symptoms as your body gets kicked back into gear. Sorry, but I went through this back in 09 when Armour went to crap and it’s not going to be as easy as popping a pain killer for a headache and getting instant relief. It wasn’t torture but there were side effects from everything working again.
I also went through the rubbish with Armour, several of us here did. I don’t think most of us here have simply listed our symptoms and implied we were new users of ERFA, I’ve been taking it since the Armour disaster and got on very well with it, which is all the more annoying now. I have mentioned my symptoms because they were immediate on starting my latest batch, not a gradual decline as I got further into the jar, which has led me to believe there was something in them which either shouldn’t have been there or which had been degraded in storage or transit. In such a case the re-analysis arranged by the ERFA company would not have shown anything wrong because it was looking for hormone content. It is as annoying for most of us here as it it for you. I have switched to another make which I don’t think is as good and am hoping that whatever was wrong is found and admitted to so that I can go back to ERFA with confidence, for the moment I’ve lost confidence in it.
For what it’s worth: I was just at my (Canadian) pharmacist’s today and was informed that Health Canada had recalled the “bad batches” of Erfa Thyroid. This came about as I was checking to make sure they ordered in a 2015 or later expiry date next time they needed a new bottle for me – it’s a tiny pharmacy and I’m their only Erfa customer. I haven’t been affected because the old supply they had was all right, but I knew they were due to order more soon.
I checked the HC site and could find no mention of such a recall. I searched in all the ways I could think of. If anyone else can find it, I’d appreciate the link to it. Maybe there are recalls that the public doesn’t get to see..?
Thea I emailed Dr Knafo and asked about a recall, because I had read about one on a Facebook page too, but he replied that there has been no recall at all. This is a shame because without one I cannot get a refund for my jar of 490+ 2 grain tablets which I can’t use.
Hello Thea! May I ask you which pharmacy is it? I asked in different pharmacies but they were surprised of my words. They said that recalls were always official and Health Canada cannot just hide the information… Moreover they don’t care if a company has a bad image, they’re doing the job that’s all. Well it’s my opinion… Maybe your pharmacy mixed with a back order or something
Thanks for your reply and Anne’s too. I am reluctant to give the name of my pharmacy because it identifies too closely my own location to all and sundry, hence there are privacy concerns.
Next week I will ask that pharmacist to give me a link, print out the notice, or email it to me. I hope this works.
Thought I’d check in and apologize (I was actually going to get lots, etc. together). We are in the middle of a move AND had a car accident that injured my back. I have now bought two lots of ERFA trying again. Not sure what is going on, but my system can not handle. This latest batch (lot #L3505A) seems to be STRONG. Too strong. Causing me anxiety and tension, sweaty palms, etc., etc. What the heck is going on with this company? Janie, is there any news or do you have a suggestion? Am really done with ERFA at this point until and unless they go back to their old plant and formulation. And don’t bother telling me that the formulation has not changed and that it’s me, ERFA.
I had, mistakenly it seems, assumed that the batch numbers were sequential, ie each new batch had a higher batch number. But that appears not to be the case so I assume that the batch number perhaps applies to where it was produced, and we need to go by the expiry date.
I made a discovery only the other day that my (current) container of ERFA contains stickers with two batch numbers on it. One says LF037A Expiry 02/17, and the second label says LF0305A, expiry 02/17. I’m nearly through that container now so assume that it is highly unlikely that I have not taken tablets from both both batches, and I still don’t feel better.
I’ve just ordered some more from the hospital, and will phone the pharmacy later and see if they can tell me which batch numbers they are currently working. I did find out recently that there are another 15 (NHS) patients on ERFA from the same endo, but none of them have apparently made a complaint about it.
I wrote to Lloyds pharmacy who supply my ERFA and asked if it was true that they had applied for a license to supply West Throid. In a typically evasive reply (does anybody do straight answers these days?) they just said that I could give them a prescription for the product that I wanted, and they would tell me if they could supply it. Hardly helpful when I need to tell the endo what I want, and therefore know in advance if it is available.
Nick is your latest batch of ERFA ok and if so can you let me know the batch number etc? When I first mentioned this problem to a private doctor who prescribes ERFA he said no-one else had complained, I don’t understand why this is only affecting some of us. I’m still taking Thyroid-S but don’t like it much and am just hoping I can find some good ERFA. I don’t want to keep switching to other brands in the hope one of them will be ok.
I also have noticed how the WP changes when exposed to air. The pills in the original WP bottle w/cottom stay nice and white and separated. The ones I put in my weekly dispenser get
a little darker, a little gummy and stick together. They seem to dissolve sublingually just fine tho w/o having to chew them a little. I only have a week’s worth out at a time so not too
worried about losing potency during just a week. Just finished up a 30 mg/100 count bottle and started on another with no hypo symptoms so far.
The ingredients, as listed on the package insert, are inulin, medium chain triglycerides and *lactose monohydrate (*trace amts only). I really wonder if the pills may have a waxy
coating or some kind of oil coating to hold them together? There is nothing in the ingredients list to indicate how they manage that. I would think they would have to list anything
like that on the ingredients list?
Keep hold of the little drying packets that come inside the WP Thyroid plastic tubs. Transfer them into your dispensing bottles. That’s what I do to stop them from going brown and sticky…….it works.
Hope that helps?
I just stumbled across this site and am so thankful I did. I’m blown away at what I’m readying. I have been taking Erfa’s Thyroid since I moved to Canada in July of 2012 and just figured out I needed to increase my dosage back in January of this year. I finally began to feel normal again. I picked up a refill in August, and ever since then I have been feeling terrible. I told my husband my pills look different but never thought anything about it…..until now. I have been feeling like crap! Fatigue, muscle aches, brain fog,dizziness, you name it……all because of a bad batch!? I’m angry. I feel helpless. Sorry for the rant. My question is what other options do I have here in Canada for desiccated thyroid? TIA
Christie I’m so sorry you are going through all that, it sounds unbearable;-) I too live in Canada & have only recently started ERFA, 6 weeks ago, but am actually doing better on it than Synthroid (20+ years). I’ve tried, unsuccessfully to get WP-Thyroid (Westthroid)-they simply cannot ship to Canada (HPB, Health Protection Branch, Issues). One option is to get a script from a USA doctor (ND, MD etc) & get your Rx filled in the USA as well. I’m still looking into it as WP Thyroid is a superior product (Gluten-Free acceptable fillers) , IMO, though I’ve read that some people do not do well on it either.
Janie i have noticed that WP Thyroid pills become gummy when exposed to air/humidity & become difficult to dissolve sublingually. Do you suppose this affects their potency?
To avoid spoiling the entire contents of the bottle, I dispense several days into tiny zip bags, instead of weekly dispensers, whose snap lids are not as airtight as they appear to be.
Many NDT pills will get like that if exposed to too much moisture, but not sure it affects potency or not….
Angie
Janie:
I do not absorb it very well at all. Can’t be iron or cortisol (at least for me 🙂 ) as I’d do ok when I’d switch back. The only thing that helped with my absorption was taking a little Lact-Aid with the tablets. I am lactose intolerant so figured I may not be able to “break down” the tablets sufficiently.
Angie
Where do I find the Lot # and expiration? I’ve been using Thyroid from Canada’s Universal Pharmacy for years and with my new 6 months supply, just discovered the visual difference in the pills, EXACTLY as what’s pictured on here as the old ERFA & new ERFA. Haven’t started them yet, but I went thru the whole Armour nightmare a few years back and now my heart is sinking once again :-/ Looking for the Lot & expiration but only finding is the DIN number.
Another strange difference that’s now raised HUGE red flags. The label on my old bottle says: “Universal Drugstore” with the address & etc.. BUT the new bottle now says: “Altec Drug Services” and with the same address & etc, and no reference at all of “Universal”.
And here’s what a quick google search brought up regarding Altec:
From 2012:
“Altec Medical Pleads Guilty in Gray-Market Drugs Case
By Joe Carlson
Posted: August 10, 2012
Altec Medical, Easley, S.C., will pay a fine of $2 million and forfeit another $1 million after the corporation pleaded guilty to buying pharmaceuticals from a gray-market supplier and then reintroducing them into the U.S. drug market for sale at retail pharmacies.
The corporation also was sentenced to a year of probation by U.S. District Judge Robert Scola in Miami after pleading guilty to conspiring to defraud the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the U.S. Justice Department said in a news release.
Prosecutors charged that Altec paid co-conspirator William Rodriguez about $55 million between 2007 and 2009 for prescription drugs that company officials knew had been illegally diverted from distribution channels regulated by the FDA. The company then created fake “drug pedigrees” that purported to show that the unidentified drugs had been acquired legally.
Rodriguez pleaded guilty to conspiracy and money laundering in June 2012 but has not yet been sentenced, according to the release.
A spokesperson for Altec could not be reached for comment late Friday.
According to the Justice Department, in many cases diverted drugs come from boxes stolen from warehouses or cargo trucks, from repackaged free samples or from patients who resell them for profit.”
This is my very first “social” connection. I am thankful to have found this site. I am very new on computers but very Old with thyroid/health &complications. Total thyroid ¶thyroid removal due to cancers, 40 years ago. Years of radiation, etc. but through all that I taught myself nutrition, supplementation, and organic gardening ( Drs. Back then were not taught much about nutrition.). I learned I need High doses of B complex twice a day, among many other bits of knowledge to keep me going. As an aside, my children grew up running through the room waving , saying,” hi radioactive mommy.” I’ve had a lifetime of radiation due to recurrences, etc. began at age 25.
That is a brief history to lead into my present unpleasant symptoms. I have been lethargic, exhausted & weak, very unlike myself, for 6 mos. saliva test ( results yesterday) cortisol ok except mid day ( I feel weak & worndown from wake up to bedtime). Estrogens, 3 , too high, TESToSterone out the roof. Iron was low a year ago supplemented now, blood says is ok. I’ve suffered severe depressions thru the years also and not so great right now. Besides the high need for calcium, D, magnesium, also need huge amts of potassium x thirty + years. On synthroid .1 two x a day. A wise Dr. Added cytomel .25mcg about 25 years ago. So what is happening to me now? I am sad, frustrated, & want to be the Real Me again. Thank you for having a place I can write where someone might understand.
Sally you simply must read all of Janies website, get her books and you will find hope in that the information she has blessed us with. Also there are good dessicated thyroid products that are superior to synthroid. Right now many of us are frustrated with Erfa’s Thyroid but there are others to try.
Good luck!
Sooooo, Im doing BAD. I need HELP
I posted last month about starting Amour again since i couldn’t refill my Erfa, and i posted about doing so well. now Im doing really bad, bad for last 2 weeks (maybe since 2nd refill Armour)
you can see my original post at bottom.
I had a pituitary tumor when i was 8 years old- so mine is pituitary related- but never been on thyroid, etc (at time not hypo, only estrogen deficient) until last decade, maybe?.
things downhill since started thyroid maybe do not need it but I’m trapped now- if i try to cut down, i crash
SO NOW- Im wondering if i have adrenal insufficiency
i have all the symptoms
why would that be after 2 refills on armor?
My thyroid labs came back ok
my 8am cortisol blood test was 6.3…. is that considered too low?
I feel so horrible, so much anxiety , palps, fatigue, etc I hope i don’t loose my job or die
should i see a naturopath, or an internist? My endocrinologist doesn’t help- they said they do not diagnose adrenal fatigue, if i go on cortisone drugs i will gain tons of weight
help!!
old post:
beano
August 25, 2014
So I posted back in June about doing poorly on ERFA. I am now on Amour thyroid- and heres my update
first- here was my initial post in June:
bean
June 18, 2014
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
hope this is information to anyone seeking it
–––––––-
update 8-2014
So- Ive come around 360 degrees. Armour back in 2009 I think, was the thing that got me switching all around since reformulating and doing bad. Then nature-throid changed, and so on until I took ERFA. So I changed back to Armour (thats what the pharmacy gave me and what my inexperienced in NT endo called in. I think Armour is doing better. I am DEFINITELY better than when taking ERFA !! I was a bit skeptical about going back on Armour since it sent me on this medical wild goose chase through hell and back- but thought i’d try it and if it didn’t work I could ask for something else. So far feel ok, Ive lost 4 pounds and shed waist fat for sure (on ERFA was STUCK in a weight gain pattern), overall thinner, more energy. I do get periods of panic attacks and skipped heart beats so I don’t like that, and its probably due to the Armour (hypo? Hyper ? ) . I’m going to stick with it and see how it treats me for now since its way better than Erfa. The price went up , oh well. And by the way- I asked for my LOT numbers on the Erfa- and they WOULD NOT give them to me! Ok bye for now.
oh Beano,
I am so sorry you are doing so very terribly. Of course i am not expert but perhaps you could get some help from the moderators on the thyroidless yahoo chat group. They have been a god sent to lots of us.
It does sound to me like adrenal issues but it is hard because hypo and adrenal sometimes have the same symptoms and of course when you are not well, it all just becomes so frustratingly confusing what your feeling.
Perhaps Janie could offer you some advice of a next step to take with your doctor.
Hi Beano,
So perhaps you need to find a doctor who does diagnose adrenal insufficiency. If you go on the thyroidless chat group they can give you a list of doctors to try and contact. I know it is so overwhelming when you are so fatigued but you must try to find the right person to help you.
Janie also does consulting so maybe she can give you some direction.
I wish you all the best and sorry for not being of any real help.
Hello, I’m looking to switch to a NDT from synthroid/SR lyothyronine combo and being in Canada was going to aim for Erfa. Now reading this I’m a little worried.
Does anyone know/ has anyone bought Erfa from their new batches since the complaints to see if it has gone back?
Hi Sam,
I will be receiving a new batch by the end of this week and of course it takes a couple of days for me to know if it is good or not but will let you know.
Sam I’m currently taking ERFA for the first time ever, 6 weeks now & am not experiencing any of the debilitating side-effects that others have been reporting. However, I live in Canada & perhaps that may mean different batch numbers than those shipped to USA/INT’L locations- most probably I’d say. Why that should make any difference though is another mystery.
Hi, does anyone know if the old Armour is back to the way it was, before the re-formulation in 2009? I have read various forums that it now looks and smells like the original version. After reading the comments on this site, I’m very dubious about starting up with Erfa again, either way I need to get off Levothyoxine as soon as possible.
I think those conflicting reports about a possible second reformulation are very confusing…some say Armour works better now than in 2009, while others find it as ineffective as ever. In recent months, the price of Armour has doubled where I live (Belgium). I admit to being at a loss here…but my current batch of Erfa (expiring 03/16) does not work at all, so maybe it would be a good idea to give Armour a chance…?
PS. Some have successfully combined Naturethroid with Candex (cellulase) to break down the cellulose…maybe this would work with Armour as well? Naturethroid is not available where I live, my only options are Erfa and Armour.
Michelle G.
How wonderful it is to stumble upon this forum! Thank you everyone who has taken the time & effort to share their experiences because frankly, people NEED you to keep doing this!
I’ve just started taking ERFA 60mg for one month now after being on Synthroid for 20+ years! So far I’ve only experienced minimal improvement such as slightly better sleep plus my hair has stopped falling out by the handful, however no change in extremely low energy. Still waiting on my latest Labs to confirm what my body is already telling me: that I’m still very tired & not functioning near to even 50% of my normal.
ERFA was not my first choice however in Canada it seems to be the go to NDT. I personally would prefer to try WP Thyroid because of the lack of fillers, but have not been able to find a workaround for getting it to Canada so in the meantime I’ll continue to stay on the ERFA unless or until I my experience dictates I come off.
Hi Michelle. Do know that one grain (60 mg) is just a starting dose, and we’re meant to raise from it every few weeks by 1/2 grain or so. We then do labs somewhere in the 2 grain area to see our progress. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 But at the same time, many have found Erfa to be changed this year in a negative way, so who knows if you got a batch like that or not. Raising should hopefully give a clue.
Right, thank you for that info Janie! My labs should be in any day them my ND’s intention is to raise my dose an additional 30mg then retest in 6 weeks, however, after checking out that link you provided I see that I need to alter the dose more rapidly. Also, I’m going to pay closer attention to my symptoms based on the experiences others are writing about here.
Hi Michelle, if you are noticing even a minimal improvement, it means that it’s working for you. Normaly, we have to wait 6 weeks to have the maximum of eficiency with Thyroid. Wait 1 or 2 more weeks and (as Janie said) see with your dr if you can increase the dosage a bit… Hope it will be okay for you
Thanks so much Ruth! It’s been a trip, as everyone here can attest to…although, we are so lucky to have this outlet of expression & amazing info!
I’m now bumped up to 90 mg & feeling a bit better but a long way to go I’d say. Still waiting for those Labs to come in but frankly I already know that I’m not optimal yet.
So happy to see this thread is still active! I actually complained to Dr. Knafo many months ago. I received my suspicious Erfa LAST YEAR in July. My bottle came from a Canadian pharmacy since Erfa told me they did not have my dosage available (beginning of the end perhaps?). After completing about 80 days of medication, I had a gut feeling something was wrong with the product. Would you believe my bottle didn’t even have a lot number? I feel like Dr. Knafo is just a puppet – doesn’t mean harm, but he did not follow through in reprimanding the pharmacy that was distributing their unlotted product.
I am so glad to have accidentally stumbled upon this blog – now I know others are with me on this. Currently I am on a desiccated compound, but am not feeling good on it. I tried Accella and was not happy with that either. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
And just for the record, my thyroid issues are because of toxic mold poisoning. I wouldn’t be taking anything if I found a cure to get rid of it. Mold destroyed my life, but if my thyroid could get the right support, things would be a lot better.
Janie slightly off topic, I just discovered that Forest Laboratories Inc was purchased by Furiex Pharmaceuticals (Actavis?) on July 2, 2014 per USSEC Form 4. I wonder how this bodes for the future of Armour Thyroid? I do not know if this posting belongs here, but just an FYI.
So far, all that buy-out is done is raise the price of Armour. So doesn’t look like anything foreboding will happen to Armour since they are all about $$$$,
Hi folks, I opened the package 5OO 30 mg to check lot#s and exp date (lot LF03508A EXP 02/2017) and I found that they are the exact same as your post from Lori T:
“Lori T
June 12, 2014
I just received a 500Ö30 bottle shipped from the UK, exp date:02/2017, lot # LF03508A and it seems to look like an old bottle. When I compared these new pills to my pharmacy ones ( came in a brown pharmacy bottle so no idea of date or lot) they looked exactly the same, not any shinier or spotted or indented. I am currently titrating up but am pretty sure my brown bottle pills are okay so hopefully the new ones are too. Strange that the exp date is 2017 but they look the same and what I have now and am not experiencing any side effects.
Could this mean there was a bad batch dated 2016 only?
Are all these pills made in Canada? My bottle says Montreal Quebec Canada.”
With this information, I will give them a try. My own experience with Armour is that after my morning dose upon awakening, by late morning and close to lunch I start to feel low energy. After chewing my mid day dose, I am re-energized. When I start taking the ERFA, I should notice right away if they are not working and will follow up with a report. My only issue has been with my supplier that would only offer a refund on a “resalable” return, which means had I found out after taking them that they were from an ineffective batch, I would have been our of luck per their return policy statement. But thanks to Jamie, her blog and all of you fellow patients I am able to make an informed decision to use the supply that I have been sent. Thank you all.
John there is one person on the FTPO Canada facebook page with that batch who is doing fine on it. I’ve read others with the same batch saying it’s no good, so it’ll be interesting to know what you think.
If it’s ok I’ll try to get some, it’s interesting that you can get it from England but here we have to get it from the US and check the batch numbers first – of course because no-one is buying it at the moment the pharmacy I use has a backlog of the known bad batches!
Thank you for the information, Anne. Here is my experience. I purchased the 500 count of 30 mg Erfa, partially due to cost vs Armour and for the ease of absorption via sublingual vs chewing. My experience the morning after the first day on Erfa was that my Basal Temperature dropped significantly. And for every day I was on Erfa. My usual dose taken late morning that eliminates the reduction in energy I feel at the end of my early morning dose was ineffective on Erfa. I finally could not take the lack of effectiveness, and I communicated with the supplier who says that I am only the second person out of 1000 that has made an issue about the Erfa. And they are in Northampton England. I am having continuing communication difficulties with the company now and so far they are refusing to accept the responsibility of even entertaining the possibility that the batch I was sent was bad. More details if needed, but essentially I will continue with Armour as long as they have been as effective as they have. I just need to work on more blood tests to help determine adrenal levels and iron so that I can effectively work on increasing my dose from the one grain a day I have been prescribed. This will involve increased communication and hopefully the successful education of my doctor with the help of Janie’s new book. Wish me luck. At least on 3 1/2 grain Armour a day I am keeping most of my hair, sanity and Basal temperatures above 97.6
Anything new to report, John? I ordered a bottle of ERFA with a 2017 expiration date because it seems to be 2016 only people are complaining of. I’ve gone through so many old posts on here and FB because nobody seems to want to talk about it anymore. I figure since I am familiar with ERFA and was optimized without a thyroid….. I’ll know within days if it’s a bad batch or not. Somehow I felt more comfortable ordering it again then trying a completely new brand and having to get used to how I react to a new brand of NDT.
Anne, I would think it’s too soon to tell if they’ve been going hypo for the last month before the 2017 batches became available. At this point with all the talk of the “bad batches” and people freaking out….naturally people are scared and expecting the worst..including me.
John,, I took that same batch. I could take it for a day or two and then I would feel weak and shaky with no ability to deal with stress. Did not work for me either.
Angie
Janie, thank you so much for all that you do. I have learned so much from both your postings, blogs and your book. I know of no other patient advocate that has provided as much time, energy and information that empowers us with the ability to work toward better health instead of good lab results. I have received my package with my ERFA 500 count 1/2 grain dose of Thyroid. I have not opened it, and wonder if it would not be prudent to just return it unopened or gamble that it may be an unaffected batch. Any suggestions? It is postmarked from Northhampton England.
John, it makes me feel so good to read that all the work I’ve put into this has empowered folks! I wanted NO ONE to go through what I did as long as I did. Knowledge is power! And that’s especially true when the knowledge is based on solid patient experiences, not “opinion”.
I can’t tell you what to do other than compare your batch number with what folks are saying in their comments. 🙂
I need your help. I ordered a 500 count ERFA 30 mg from a mail order house based in England before I read about your experiences posted on this site. I was intending to use them to supplement and/or replace my Armour prescription based upon their previous reputation, for the ability to use it sub-lingually and the cost for a 500 count supply was cheaper than what I am paying for Armour. After reading about the possibility that my order may be ineffective, I forwarded a link to this website to the supplier. So far, they have failed to stand behind the effectiveness of the Erfa and will only send me a replacement thyroid medication if I return the unopened bottle. My question is, should I try the Erfa to see if it is a good batch that would jeopardize a substitution, or should I just return it? At this time it is still in transit, and do not know batch numbers or expiration dates. I will follow up and post with the batch information when I receive the order, as well.
Hi Pete, I was just wondering whether you get your Erfa from Lloyds pharmacy (UK)? I had a break from Erfa because it stopped working, so went back onto Levothyroxine, which I am still on, and is like a living hell. I used to use armour, until they re-formulated it in 2009, although now I read that Armour is back to the old formulation. So, basically, I’m not sure whether to ask my GP to prescribe Erfa or Armour, both of which were purchased from Lloyds.
No, I live in Finland so we have to rely on one sole importer who then distributes Erfa Thyroid to the pharmacies (as far as I know). The importer in Finland actually just recently ran out of Erfa and we didn’t have any Thyroid left in the pharmacies for a few weeks. The bottle I just got is from the latest shipment which I guess would be one of the latest batches released. I’m keeping my fingers crossed they’ve really gone back to the “old” Erfa. 🙂
Hi Pete, also from Finland, I’ve just opened my Erfa, same as yours LF03833A/exp 05/2017. I did a “blind-test” with my friend, the smell is not so strong on these 05/2017 pills. Also they are much softer. I just took first of them on 20.9. so we’ll wait and see and hope…
So far so good… But only 9 days since I started the new batch. I’m sceptic but somehow hopeful. I’m feeling better now, not so tired anymore! This batch is totally different compared
to my earlier batch. Not so bad smell and much softer. Just like 2013 autumn. So I truly hope Erfa works again. I have wasted 8 months now feeling bad or very bad, with some new symptoms too. So now, fingers crossed here. I will report…
Anne
Marjaana how are you doing with that batch now? Hoping you’re doing ok and we can all get some and get back to ‘normal’!
Hi Anne, I’m feeling good. I can’t believe it yet but now I have taking this batch since 20.9. and still I’m feeling alive! I’m going to take a bloodtest on monday 3.11. so waiting for it now…
My batch is LF03833A/exp 05/2017. Feeling positive at the moment, it’s great after shitty
8 months!
Dave.. I have heard that the Armour in the lower doses (30 mg, especially) seems to be a softer, sweeter pill, more easily absorbed than the higher dose pills. I don’t use Armour so can’t comment
from personal experience. Maybe get your doc to write your rx for a lower dosage (means taking more pills during the day but multi-dosing throughout the day is not a bad thing) but more pills?
For instance .. if you are supposed to take 2 grains per day (120 mg), you would take 4 – 30 mg pills per day instead of one pill.. Just get a month’s worth and see how you do on the lower dose pills?
I wrote to Dr. Knafo and this is what our email conversation was like:
Dear Dr. Knafo,
I am writing to tell you what I’m sure you’ve heard from many people now. The last batch of Erfa that I had refilled is now not working for me.
I am having very bad hypo symptoms…hair loss, weight gain, constipation, air hunger, brain fog, headaches, anxiety, etc…Can you please tell me what has changed in your batches of Erfa? I can guarantee you that nothing else had changed in my diet, my life…nothing except a new batch of Thyroid. I am getting so very sick and need to get better sooner than later!
Thank you for your consideration,
Dear Mrs
I am sorry to hear you are not doing well on our medication. We did not change any ingredients or methods but we are currently investigating any case of lack of efficacy.
Would it be possible for me to give you a call in order to understand why this is happening to you ? I also need the batch number of the medication if you have it and I also need to know if you have any recent blood test done.
Regards,
So it looks like they are at least looking into it to see if something has changed…I hope. I will write again once he calls me.
ok thanks…is that the same as my TPO being over 1000? i am on iron tablets due to previous low iron…should i stop them? is this why my thyroid meds don’t seem to be working? what can i do about it? my TPO has been over 1000 since diagnosis 4 years ago, it never goes down… i just thought that was normal with hashimotos? does this affect adrenals too? am i on the wrong amount of Hc? sorry for all the questions
hi janie yes my ferritin is 126 and saturation last time was 32%. been doing DATS and up till a few weeks ago was stable every day at between 36.9 to 37 then last week it dropped and became a bit unstable at between 36.85 and 36,7…tis is when i tried the old bottle of ERFA, nothing else changed..i was hoping to reduce my HC and come off it as have been on it for almost 2 years but presume i shouldn’t do so until i have the thyroid meds stable again? my Vit D was 175 which is fine too and b12 and folate were actually slightly over range.
i was considering trying a different batch of ERFA with later exp dates..do you know of anyone doing better on later batches being produced now? batch no for 60mg ones is LF03832A exp may 2017 and 30mg ones LF03505A / LF03507A exp march 2017?
I just received and opened a new bottle of Erfa Thyroid (Lot: LF03833A, Exp: 05/2017). The strong smell is gone and the tablets are softer again, just like they used to be. I have to wait and see how it works but this might be good news!
pete thats a similar lot no to the ones i have been told i can now get…please post if they work for you as if so i will get my pharmacist to order them for me..
After 3 weeks I can say that I do feel better now than I did in the past five months when I was using the previous, bad batch. I only hope they will continue to manufacture it like this in the future! I sent an email to Dr Knafo and told all this. He answered with a very short message and just told me to keep him updated (in how I’m doing). Previously he had always denied there was anything wrong with Erfa Thyroid. Was he just too busy to do it this time or have they finally realized how they’ve screwed up Erfa Thyroid?
i am having more problems now on the old ERFA tablets that i found in my cupboard. i had my bloods tested and my free t4 and free t3 were right at the top, t4; 20.8 (12-22) and t3 6.4 (3.10-6.8) all my other vits and mins were fine near top of range so not lacking ferritin or anything else…am on 27.5 mg HC and although temps are lower now they are stable so cant be low cortisol…I’ve been exhausted and constant severe leg pains keeping me up at night and making me more exhausted, feeling really desperate now as i thought the old bottle would work.. i stopped NDT altogether for 2 days and the leg pains went away the started again yesterday and been up all night in pain. not sure if I’m exhausted and feeling nauseous due to lack of sleep of hypo now! my pharmacist cant seem to get hold of NP by acella which i really wanted to try as its sublingual like ERFA…any advice on whats going on with me and what other brand i could try that maybe could do sublingually? in the UK we seem to be only able to get armour, erfa or nature thyroid …so depressed as was doing so well on erfa until july…is it worth asking my pharmacist to get a different batch and trying that? has anyone found trying new batches with later exp dates are better and if so what dates? my early morning temps dropped to 36.5 now which is the lowest its been.any advice would be great. thanks
Fliss, is your iron around 110 and % saturation around 35%? (Or if using Canadian labs, serum iron around 25 and % Sat around .35) That’s important. Have you done your DATS while on 27.5 HC? That’s important as well.
I finally get my Dr to prescribed a NDT and this is what I get. After reading this I’m scared. I don’t want to go crazy with symptoms. Will I be fine because I never had the original erfa or that I am just off the synthetic thyroid? Suggestions please.
Just thought I would update you all -I was so ill on Erfa thyroid after being well on it for three years that i had to go off sick. I only started to recover when I switched brands from Erfa to WP Thyroid.. I had loads of hypothyroid symptoms including a three stone weight gain. It has taken 2-3 months to feel much much better. I have lost half a stone without trying -principally because I can do normal levels of activity now rather then crashing for several days everytime I did a bit of housework! I am hoping to be able to start walking again and ti rebuild all the lost muscle and fitness.
I switched to WP Thyroid…..
Am so grateful to this site -because I could not understand what was going on until I read about it here. Thank you Thank you Thank you……
An endocrinologist has checked me thoroughly out -there is nothing wrong with me bar from suffering with hypothyroidism. The comment this Endocrinologist made was that Erfa had not been successful with the patients that had been put on it -not a brand that the endocrinologist recommends. I am lucky that my Gp has allowed me to switch to WP on the NHS…..
Still feel angry that I became so ill through effectively poor medication -it was all so unnecessary. Shame on the company for not facing up fair and square to THEIR problem -leaving patients to suffer instead!!. We can only vote with our feet….
I hadn’t looked at this webpage for a few weeks but I note that the problems is not going away. So Dr Knafo when are you and Erfa going to get your head out of the sand?!!!
Thank you Waveylines. I have been reading your comments, following along and it is great to hear that things are improving for you which proves to me (I’ve been affected but not to the extreme you were) that it is not in my head! Although you were not even able to exercise, I still push myself (where before I would walk as fast as I could 45- 50 minutes most days and couldn’t wait to get home and walk each night) to get the dog out on her walk each day and one symptom I have is very very poor stamina. A slight grade uphill just walking causes my throat to ache like I ran a marathon. We have no other options here in Canada unless we go back to synthetic which for now, I won’t.
Addressing the group.
Maybe it’s time we find out how to make other options available to us here in Canada like WP thyroid. How do we do that?
Corry what country are you in? If Canada you may find your ERFA is ok because many people there still seem to get on with it. You could ask for the batch number and expiry date then check here to see if anyone has already mentioned it, then you could try it to see how you do on it. The bad batch I have is not from the new factory but the old one in Belgium and I was told nothing is wrong with it, I’d been fine on ERFA for some years but this batch gave me immediate stomach upsets and dizziness, if this happens to you just don’t take any more! Other people are taking the tablets made at the new factory and some are fine but some are gradually getting a return of their hypo symptoms.
Hey fellows, has anyone of you managed to get refunded?
I’m now on WP Thyroid for some months, feeling awesome, but I spent more than 100 Euro on a huge bottle of broken Erfa that gave me nothing but horrible symptoms. Would be nice to finally get that money back, at least a part of it.
Best of health to you all, keep hanging in!
I know of one person on the Thyroid UK forum who got a partial refund from an overseas pharmacy, but the same pharmacy has so far refused to refund me. I have a bottle of 500 x 125mg ERFA, more than a year’s supply and cost about £140, I took just three of them and was ill with each – immediate stomach upset, dizziness, light-headedness, so won’t take any more. If only ERFA would admit something we could get a refund I think.
It’s good to know WP Thyroid suits you, are you in the US? I’ve heard from two people that WP Thyroid is very sensitive to heat and so am unsure whether to have it mailed to England because of this. I can’t decide between WP and NP by Acella.
Hello Anne, thank you for your reply! What you experienced pretty much sounds like what was happening to me. My pharmacy also refused to refund me, since there is no official statement about a faulty charge.
I’m living in Germany. So far I ordered WP-Thyroid twice and it worked well.
J it’s really good to know your WP was ok after being sent to Germany, I’d love to know where you got it from because I know where one person got theirs from and it was heat damaged, so I don’t want to buy from that place! Are you able to tell me where you bought it? I know it’s not good to give sources publicly so am not sure how you can let me know. I’m currently trying Thyroid-S but think it’s making me feel jittery and my muscles hurt too much, so want to try something else.
I would love to try to get some WP-Thyroid as well… where did you get it from? You can contact me at jackie_oh1@hotmail.com.
J
Why is it not good to give sources publicly? I’m starting to be a bit annoyed by all the information masking on forums. I’m all for open information exchange. The more options we know of, the less they can do with us what they want, the more progress for everyone. Why would I not share what worked for me, you asked for it, I answer.
I ordered my WP via Metropolitan Pharmacy München (Germany), 1 grain 100ea for 38,85€. But I do not know if they ship inside the EU. Is this the source from which a package of WP was damaged? I hope not, I really don’t want to reexperience what happened with my last bottle of Erfa.
And after all I hope that I will not have to take those damn pills forever. I’m now living superclean and I’m going to heavily detox for the next years, hopefully my glands will restart working properly at some point.
Edit: What is that avatar doing there and why can’t I request deletion? 🙁
J, there’s nothing the FDA and similar organizations want to do more than shut down websites where NDT is sold without a prescription. i.e those are the “sources” people are referring to, not places where a prescription is required. Those organizations like the FDA are in the hands of the pharmaceuticals, not in your hands. We’ve already seen the FDA have a hand in shutting down many places. So…thyroid patients who depend on these sources want them kept behind the scenes, not on a public blog like this.
J
Oh, I was not aware such sources exist. Thank you for explaining, and also for revoming the picture.
Also thank you for all your work and being so engaged! It’s so important to give people the possibility to inform and help themselves when noone else would!:)
Anne
J thank you for telling me where you got your ERFA from. I’m not sure if they’ll mail to me but I don’t see why they shouldn’t and the advantage would be that Customs wouldn’t examine them! Do they want a prescription or can you buy without one? I shall give them a try.
The ones which were heat damaged had come from a pharmacy in California and the purchaser thought they’d been damaged in transit due to extreme weather temperatures there, so yours should be fine.
The only reason I didn’t know if you would be able to tell me your source is because I know some blogs and sites don’t allow it in case anyone takes note and closes down the pharmacy. I’ve seen it happen once here in England which was very annoying.
Thanks again!
Nick
It’s not encouraging that we haven’t seen more positive comments about the latest batches of ERFA!
Nick I’ve noticed that on the STTM Canada Facebook page most people in Eastern Canada are still doing ok on ERFA, whereas a lot of people on the STTM International Facebook page, so mainly USA, have switched to other brands. I can’t understand how it is so regionalised unless certain batches are earmarked for export.
Are you doing ok on Thyroid-S? I’ve been taking it for 2.5 months now and can’t decide about it. I don’t feel as calm as I used to but that could be the worry about it and what to do next, also my muscles are very painful and leg muscles quite shaky, which is new to me. That too could be a co-incidence though.
Anne, I’m still recovering from a nasty throat infection and I just feel like sleeping most of the day anyway. So I still can’t make a valid assessment of the Thyroid-S.
I do feel slightly ‘on edge’ but is that the Thyroid-S or the infection?
Sorry to hear about the throat infection Nick and hope it goes soon. Your description of being slightly ‘on edge’ is how I feel, not all the time but it’s in the background a lot of the time. I don’t know what to think about the Thyroid-S and may have to order a blood test as I’m not due one for a couple of months, or just get something else and try that. I have an NHS endo and a private doctor, and both say I never needed thyroid meds, it’s so annoying…
The throat infection is improving slowly, and I’ve now nearly finished the month’s supply of Thyroid-S. I have to say that it hasn’t improved my health so unless another factor is involved, I won’t be buying any more.
I have an appointment with the my endo next week when I will ask him why he hasn’t come back to me in the five months since I originally informed him that there was a problem with the ERFA that he prescribes for me.
Ellen
So grateful for this page and to find out about NP thyroid by Acella. After not doing well on the reformulated erfa and naturethroid, am doing as well on Np thyroid by Acella as the old erfa and old armour. Thanks for ideas on what to try after erfa reformulation.
All you Hashimoto sufferers… There will be a FREE ‘webinar’ called The Hashimoto’s Institute, 9/15/2014 to 9/22/2014. I expect it to be along the same lines as The Thyroid Summit I mentioned a few weeks ago. If you go to the above URL, you can view titles from the entire week’s offerings. If it is indeed the same format, the entire program will probably be offered for an introductory price right at the beginning, then the cost will escalate. I bought access after the second day of TTS. Though costing twenty dollars more by then, I still feel the investment was well worth it. It’s good to be able to hear the free programs, but it’s also nice having permanent access to them. Several TTS programs I have accessed over and over.
At the bottom of the web page, the offerings for each day are outlined. Each day, access to those topics are available for 24 hours. In the free format, they can only be listened to once. During free access, they can be paused, but it is a little obscure process.
This is a follow up to the free “Hashimoto’s Institute” I posted about a couple days ago. Yesterday, I devoted a few hours to downloading and listening to the bonus offerings made available for signing up. So far, I’m not enthralled. Instead of the way The Thyroid Summit (TTS) was organized around interviews; these initial recordings are more like lectures, and at times, rather tedious. In one, the doctor seems to be multi-tasking. Judging by the background noises, it sounds like he might be cooking something up in the kitchen, and occasionally turns away from the microphone. Here and there, the recording is also punctuated by loud claps of thunder, a dog barking, and kids intruding in the makeshift studio.
Although some interesting points are made, in my estimation, too much attention is paid to TSH. He also critiques some of the ideas put forth in TTS; ideas with which I resonate, that run counter to the way main stream medicine has ineffectively addressed my own experiences around hypothyroidism.
Maybe the actual “Institute” will improve. I haven’t given up on it entirely, but I am less excited. Each day’s recordings will be made available for 48 hours, instead of TTS’s 24. And so far, no indication of a sales pitch. However, that no doubt will come.
quick question related to my other post….the old bottle of ERFA i found and am going to use has no use by date on it…it just says it was prescribed in june 2012 so its 2 years old…will it still work or does anyone know how long shelf life ERFA has? am in the UK and don’t get ERFA in ERFA bottles just brown ones from pharmacy so no way of telling if out of date…even if they are would they still work?
thanks
Hi fliss, I am also in the UK, and lucky enough to have my ERFA prescribed for me. Like you I started getting all the hypo symptoms back again earlier this year. I am still trying to get an alternative off the endo who prescribes the ERFA for me.
My EFRA comes through Lloyds pharmacy and always has a batch number and expiry date on it.
I did get some Thyroid-S but have had a bad throat infection since it arrived so can’t offer a valid assessment of it yet.
Hi Nick,
Lloyd s Pharmacy are applying for licence to stock WP Thyroid -they said it would take about two months for this process -about a month has gone by so am hopeful they will be able to order it in by end of October……hopefully your endo will switch the brand for you soon…..fingers crossed
I have questions. I am totally new to this concept and thought and such. I was diagnosed several times and by several doctors with fibromylgia and refused to accept it cause of the total body and joint aches and pains daily. I had just accepted that it was arthritis like the rest of my family had. I am anemic which I was told was caused from my bariatric surgery and years ago was put on thyroid meds just cause doctor said it might help my weight problems. My mother had a thyroid goiter back in 1964 removed that weighed 9 pds so I know it in the genes. I have had thyroid tests run over the years all to come back normal. I now suffer daily of body aches and pains and my hips, knees, shoulders, wrists, and feet hurt so badly I can hardly walk. I am very much a advacate for holistic healing and have put off going to the doctor cause I did have the hip and knee xrayed back 6 months ago only for them to tell me it was arthritis and they want to give me injections. I guess my question here is if I get these meds you all talk about and that isnt the problem will it hurt me? Just wasnt wanting to go back to another doctor to made feel stupid and for them to make lots of money off me for nothing.
Hi Susan,
It will well be worth the investment to buy Janie’s books and read all you can. You may very well need thyroid medication and if you do then possibly your aches and pains could disappear as mine did. I thought I was getting arthritis too but wasn’t as bad as you sound. Within a week of switching from sythetic hormone to dessicated mine joints stopped aching and pinching.
Best of luck!
thanks for this..yes i just compared the ones i have and they are exactly as you describe. i don’t have batch numbers as here in the uk the pharmacist dispenses them in brown bottles not in ERFA bottles. i just know i was fine until i started new bottle in july. luckily i have now found about 100 old ERFA in my cupboard so am back on them until i can change to NP or another brand or until this is resolved.
thanks for all your help and for alerting us to this problem as i didn’t know what was wrong with me until i saw this.
fliss
i found an old bottle of ERFA and have noticed 2 things: old ones definitely smell stronger than new and old ones are harder to dissolve and need breaking up a bit…anyone noticed this? what are the other differences between the two and does anyone know why my morning temps are still ok around 36.7 but i feel so lousy?
thanks
Fliss, there are others who notice that certain parameters “look” fine yet they feel lousy on Erfa now as compared to pre-2014 batches. And no one knows what’s going on, and Erfa appears to be refusing to look beyond their supposed lab evaluation of the T4 and T3 content in the tablets. I personally lose respect for companies who take this head-in-the-sand approach.
Fliss.. If you look up at the top of this page, there is a picture shown of the ‘new’ and the old Erfa. The ‘new’ Erfa is just a tad darker than the old, the new is shinier
and the letters are more deeply embossed into the pill. Those are the main physical differences. Also if you ck your bottles (old and new), the new seem to have
longer lot numbers. But that may not be a good way of judging since reactions/reports are mixed between old lot numbers and new lot numbers from users.
Hi
First of all, LOVE this page. The info here saved me. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been on ERFA Thyroid for almost 5 yrs now, getting my life back after 9 years on Levaxin. Took me almost two years to convince my doc to let me change, and about a year to get “normal” again. And I started to build up a life again. Feeling happy and safe. But earlier this year the pills suddenly looked a bit different, tasted different and had a different texture. After a few months I started getting all kinds of hypo symptoms back. Of course I started to think I’d done something wrong, you know, the old blame myself/shape up game. Finally I went here to see if I’d missed some vitamins, minerals or something. And I find this. So horrible, so scary on so any levels. And the response from ERFA! Outrage.
I wonder if anyone knows if something good has happened? Or if they are sticking to their story that nothing is wrong?
Best regards
Anna
Janie, thank you. Sad, scary as well as a really stupid behavior on their part, surprisingly stupid. They will loose business and have a tainted brand, things that cost a LOT of time and money to rebuild. The persons I know also on Erfa and myself have decided to stop using them. And I guess we are not alone, the word is spreading.
Again, thanks for the fantastic STTM and all the time you’ve put into it. If ever in Sweden, drinks/dinner/coffee are on me!
Anna
I agree, Anna. I always respect a company more if they admit there’s a problem and work to fix it than I do one that completely denies a obvious problem.
And as far as being in Sweden, if that ever happens, I’m lookin’ you up. 🙂
fliss.. You should be okay on the NP thyroid. This is the brand from Acella? right? I would take only
2.5 or 3 grains of the NP at first since some folks say the NP is so easily absorbed compared to some of the
others and then work back up to your 3 – 3.5 grains. You should be able to tell by your relief of symptoms
if it is working well for you. I have switched between NP – Acella, WP and Naturethroid (RLC Labs) and had
no problem, even using the same dose.
Thanks Lola thats helpful.. do you know why my temp is still ok but i am so so exhausted with constant aching legs since starting new ERFA?
I am one of the lucky ones who gets NDT prescribed by my dr as many in the Uk don’t..so am waiting for NP by acella to arrive , could take a few weeks…if that brand doesn’t work for me are there any others that are done sublingually or is this the only other one apart from ERFA? how did you do on WP and nature thyroid? have you tried armour?
I was on Synthroid when I was first dx way, way back in the mid-nineties. All my blood work looked fine but… I had profound exhaustion, depression, severe body
aches… you know the drill. I was dumb back then about NDT but researched and found out about natural thyroid. My doc was a jewel and agreed to rx the NDT.
I took the old Armour and did fantastic on it. Then the Armour fiasco and I changed to Erfa and did wonderfully on that also. Now the problem with Erfa (the ‘new’
Erfa makes me lightheaded and dizzy) and I have had to experiment with various NDT brands.
I have a theory and it could be all wrong but… they say it takes a few weeks for the t4 to build up in your system whereas the t3 is felt immediately. Maybe the t4
from the old/new Erfa is still in your system but the symptoms from low t3 are showing up ‘immediately’? In other words you have enough t4 or are getting enough
t4 to keep your temp up but the other symptoms of hypo are making themselves felt with a vengeance? Maybe?
I use all the NDTs sublinguially. In the past few months, I have used Naturthroid by RLC Labs, WP Thyroid by RLC Labs and NP Thyroid by Acella. I must admit, I
loved the Acella product. It tastes more like the old Armour (sweet) and my body ‘sings’ on it. You know what I mean. The WP works well but the Naturethroid doesn’t
seem to cut it for my body. I didn’t change my dosage with any of these. If I were changing from the ‘new’ Armour to one of these others, I would lower my dosage since
Armour isn’t absorbed as well as these other brands.
Just be patient. Your NP by Acella will be in shortly and hopefully, your hypo symptoms then will be a thing of the past. Be sure to keep us posted on how you do. Just remember
to use it sublingually like your Erfa and use a little less for the first week or two… like 2 grains or 2.5 grains?…. see how you do?
fliss.. I forgot one thing. If you try WP by RLC Labs or Naturethroid by RLC Labs, the dosages are a little different. On one or one and a half grain dosages, the
excess isn’t enough to be significant but on larger doses you might tell a difference and might have to back off a smidgen.
i am based in the UK.. had old batch ErFA and was stable on 3.5 grains, had been doing really well on it for 4 years and very happy with it, then in july i had to start new bottle and have been feeling awful since, exhaustion aching legs… bizarrely my morning basal temp is ok at around 36.7. sometimes 36.8…why is this? I am waiting for blood tests next week…i have gone yp to 4 grains but it hasn’t helped..i am considering switching to NP thyroid… what dose should i start on? 3.5 grains? or do we need to start at the bottom again on 1/2 grain and move up slowly>?
Hi All
I went on to the website to see about hypothyroid and menopause and discovered this post on Erfa. I have been on it fo 2 yrs and doing great. I’m from Canada. I’m not sure if I’m feeling bad because I’m almost 50 and possibly hitting some perimenopause symptoms or if it’s the Erfa causing it. What I have not come across in these posts yet (maybe I’ve missed them) is anyone showing there blood work and any changes? I’m having trouble concentrating, orgetfull, sleep is disrupted and muscle are aching more then usual and I’ve had a couple hits of depression that have come and gone out of the blue. I can’t tell if it’s menopause symptoms or Erfa(I looked at pills and I don’t get bottle so they look to be shinier and mores specs and no smell like they used to) I’m going to see doc next week to get full blood work and hormones checked. But if anyone has had significant changes to T3,T4,TSH I’d be interested to know. Thank you, Helene
I agree with Janie. If, by chance, there were changes in one or more other ingredients, that wouldn’t affect labs, I don’t think. Unless that is if we want to personally rule out some other issue than FT3 and FT4. In fact, Dr. Knafo asked me to get blood work done, and I didn’t agree with that angle they were trying to take by saying something must be changed in our bloodwork. I know in my heart it’s something that is not related to the concentration of thyroid hormone, or with *my* iron (for example) levels, etc.
Jen, I have moved on to Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid. It is treated like a supplement by the US FDA, so it doesn’t require a prescription. It may not be the total answer for you, but it might get you by for awhile in a pinch, until you get a hold of something else to try. Yesterday I stopped in at my favorite health food store; prepared to ask if they could possibly order some for me; but they already had it on their shelf! Granted, it cost more than the order I placed for the same thing from Washington State a couple weeks ago, but it totaled less than half of what a similar amount of Erfa would have been, considering the cost of CA postage to the US.
If only it was as pleasant to take sub-lingually as Erfa. It is gritty! Take it with water.
Jen, This Sept 6th post is actually a reply to yours from Sept 3rd. Sorry I didn’t see it right away, The way this format works sometimes makes things easy to miss. Some of this I have stated before, but I made a discovery a little while ago that I want to clear up. (Redux) Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid is treated as a supplement by the US – FDA, rather than a drug; thus no Rx is required. I bought my first bottle of 90 count, 130 mg tablets over the internet, before discovering that my local health food store in Redwood City, CA already had it on their shelf. A web search for: Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid provides several mail order sources. When I ordered, I chose the one closest to me, for quickest delivery. But if you happen to have a health food store that deals in a variety of supplements, you might want to check them out. A “run of the mill” grocery store or even drug store, probably won’t stock this along with their vitamins and supplements.
With mention a few days ago about ‘counterfeit’ pharmaceuticals, the following discovery has me wondering… Both bottles that I have here state that they have been manufactured and packaged by the same provider in Wautoma, WI, (www.nutrapakonline.com), however, the labeling is slightly different. One is shiny, the other not. The two bottles are slightly different in style, threaded vs. snap cap. Besides containing bovine thyroid, the first bottle states other ingredients as: Vegetable Sterate, Starch, Di Calcium Phosphate. The second bottle states: Di Calcium Phosphate, Vegetable Sterate, Pharmaceutical Glaze, Piperine. It is also interesting to note that the first one suggests one tablet per day, “or as otherwise directed”. The second states: Two tablets daily, “or as otherwise directed”.
I have not been taking 1-1/2 – 130 mg tablets (roughly 3 gr.) long enough to compare them otherwise. Plus I plan to keep the second bottle sealed until I need it, so I won’t be able to scrutinize them further, for now; other than to ask some leading questions of Nutri-Pak, such as: can they account for the bottle and labeling differences? I have never deliberately smelled any thyroid preparations, so I can’t judge good or bad by that. If anything needs to be covered up by adding flavor, with either porcine or bovine, I’d go for BBQ. 😉
In years past, when you opened up your Armour thyroid bottle you looked for that distinctive smell to know you were getting the REAL thing. The “old” Erfa had this same smell.
Question:
If you have noticed that your Erfa tablets have less or no smell compared to your OLD Erfa tablets………..do your “no smell” tablets “work”?
I find funny to see that whatever we have, something is wrong…
Let me explain. At the begining of the Erfa replacing Armour new formulation story, everyone was upset of the Erfa pills’ smell. (Not strawberry neither mint ^^)
And now that the smell is not as bad, it has to be wrong to…
The main difference between synthetic and natural formulation is that natural is not necessarily 100% the same batch to batch. Maybe the pigs ate something different or Erfa did something in order to reduce the bad taste of the pills I don’t know…
I’m currently on 60mg thyroid (no batch number sorry my pharmacy took it off :s ) No strong smell compared to my previous bottle and I’m as find as I can be 😉
Note to Erfa :I like to take my medication sub-lingually so if you want to make a flavoured pill you would be my hero ^^
I find the flavour of old ERFA to be just fine, and I’ve been taking it sublingually for 6 years. I vote ‘no’ on adding any flavour… no offense. Not that ERFA is actually listening to us – ha. I don’t even like my supplements to have ‘fruity’ flavour.
I was treated with radioactive iodine in 1983 for Graves disease and was on Synthroid I convinced my doctor to start me on Erfa thyroid in March 2014. He decided 125mg was the dose over a period of 8 weeks I became hyperthyroid. It was horrible, I got very upset and told the doctor I won’t take anything until he orders me a thyroid uptake test I took nothing for the next 8 weeks and felt a lot better. June 18 I had the thyroid uptake test, results were 4 hour uptake within normal range of 11% normal is 4-15
I was then put on 60 mg of Erfa. every day about 2 hours after taking the pills I became completely exhausted. I cut it down to 1 1/2 pills and still didn’t feel much better, I am very depressed, thinking again about just giving up and taking nothing but I cannot find out if I would die without anything. So, I’m back on 2 pills My last test results August 15 were TSH 3.8300 , T4 9, T3 7 MD said reading is ok
I’m very disappointed to find out the Erfa is not working I was on Synthroid for over 20 years and had many side effects. It took me a long time to find a doctor that would prescribe it. I really don’t know what to do anymore. The doctor is an endocrinologist but it’s my opinion he knows nothing about the thyroid, and only goes by test results
Margaret, this is why we, as patients, learned the hard way to start on only 60/65 mg, and raise by 1/2 grain every two weeks or so, to find the right dose…not start on higher doses. But…with Erfa being a mess right now, and the company denying what patients say is going on, it’s hard to know if you will get a good batch or a bad one. But you will also need to make sure that your “hyper” wasn’t caused by having inadequate levels of iron and cortisol–both which need to be optimal. Learn this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned A nd hang in there. This is only a bump in the road. Many Canadians have been switching to other NDT products.
Margaret, what you described is exactly what Pharmacist Rudy Dragone was talking about in his pool table analogy. How the body “up-regulates” and “down-regulates” the number of receptor sites; and how the differing number of sites respond to too changes made in the amount of thyroid hormone. Dragone says he gives talks to young doctors so they will better understand how thyroid hormone acts and interacts; to which they have been reported to respond: “Why don’t they teach this like that, in med school???”
Just as you said about your doctor, he “only goes by test results”. That’s because he is doing what doctors have been taught to do. But here is a test you can monitor yourself: take your temperature, and make a chart. First thing in the morning, find your basal temp; then average a few more readings during the day. Off the top of my head, Dr. Dennis Wilson (Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome) suggests an oral basal temp below 97.8 F. (36.56 C.), indicates a slow metabolism. Above 98.6 F. (37. C.) indicates a fast, or hyper metabolism. The rest of the readings during the day should average out to be around 98.6 F. (37. C.).
It is not completely clear what size tablet you are talking about. You say: “I was then put on 60 mg of Erfa. every day about 2 hours after taking the pills I became completely exhausted. I cut it down to 1 1/2 pills and still didn’t feel much better”. One and one half pills of what size? I How much Erfa did your doctor start you on? Did he start you out with a low dose and gradually increase it until you reached 125 mg? Hopefully he didn’t start you on the full amount all at once.
Determining the right amount of NDT for you is going to take time. Even though you may eventually end up taking the amount your doctor suggested, you are going to have to get there gradually, as your body adjusts to changing amounts, and shuts down excess receptor sites. Until you arrive at that dose, it’s probably not going to be fun. Of course, it would help if present results of Erfa were consistent. However, it might be a tough sell to get your doctor to prescribe something different now, since this first attempt at NDT hasn’t gone smoothly.
During all those weeks of too much; then nothing; then again apparently too much; you have been sending your body mixed messages.
Think of driving a car… if you turn the wheel too sharply and too quickly, you can over steer, and loose control. You have to turn the wheel just the right amount, in the right direction, and at the right time, while applying just the right touch on the accelerator, to keep safely under control.
Margeret…Don’t loose hope..My gland was burnt out as well with radioactive material, I was only 25…Did the synthroid thing for 20 years..Switched to Armour two years ago didn’t know then about the change in the Armour..However I researched a product called Pure Thyro made from New Zealand animal stock I take two a day with the reformulated Armour and another product called Zeno-x which contains Iodine from food sources. A great company established by Dr Bob Marshal…I was on 90 mg of Armour which is equivalint to 150 mg of Synthroid…Went to the Dr. for lab results I was very Hyperthyroid. She had to decrease the dose to 60mg…Went back in 6 weeks guess what same thing now Im on 30mg..What a miracle….which means that Pure Tyro along with the Iodine and Armour has done it’s Job…I live in NYC I used to drag up and down the subways ..Now its a Breeze…Praise God….
I still have enough of the old Erfa to last at least 6 months since I order 500 ct bottles. I decided to go ahead & try NP Thyroid by Acella. I did not want to wait & run into the problems I did when I was taking Armour when they reformulated. My levels were all out of whack & I’m not letting that happen again. I have been taking it for a couple of weeks now & so far doing ok. I like I can do it sublingually. With my Ins. It’s now a better price at $20 for a 3 month supply. I was paying $80 for 500 tablets of Erfa which has gone up to $175. A friend told me to order the Thyroid S but it seems to have a lot of unnecessary ingredients in it. I doubt I will switch back to Erfa if they ever fix the problem as long as I’m doing ok on NP Thyroid by Acella. Thanks to this site I was able to find an alternative.
Tammy,
Glad that NP Thyroid by Acella is working for you. So far, Nutri-Pak bovine appears to be working for me, and for now, I plan to stay with it. It too is a more thrifty product than Erfa. 500 ct bottles were never an option on Erfa’s US web page. My last invoice from 9/9/2013 lists 3 – 100 ct bottles of 60 mg @ $41. USD each, for a total of $123. PLUS around $36. for shipping and handling. A roughly similar amount of Nutri-Pak bovine figures out to be about half, mg for mg.
Another insight from Compounding Pharmacist Rudy Dragone described the FDA standards for acceptable levels of T4 and T3 in desiccated thyroid glands. Given the standard of: 39 mcg of T4, and 9 mcg T3 per grain of desiccated thyroid; the FDA allows a deviation of up to 9 mcg, UP or DOWN of either T4 or T3. That means there can be anywhere from 18 to zero mcg of T3; and 30 to 48 mcg of T4 per grain, and STILL BE ACCEPTABLE to the FDA. Armour is said to go by that standard. But according to RLC Labs, processors of Naturethroid and Westhroid, anything above 2 mcg deviation, up or down, and they reject it. I have no idea what acceptable tolerances would be to Erfa. If what they were using came from the US, and not just “North America” as stated in that interview of Dr. Knafo, then it ought to have been assayed as to content by the FDA.
With so many hypothyroid patients, it’s not hard to imagine that there might also be hypothyroid pigs. After all, they are close to our own DNA, and they too are subject to many of the same stresses in their short lives; GMOs; declining minerals in the soil where their food is grown; pollution; antibiotics; plus overcrowding from factory farming… I am still leaning towards a change in whatever they have been fed, at least contributing to the problem.
As promised:
Registered Pharmacist Rudy Dragone by Dr. David Brownstein M.D., offers an interesting pool table analogy to describe the interaction of thyroid hormone on the body. I have done my best to transcribe the conversation between the doctor and pharmacist, and where necessary, to paraphrase.
Picture a (North American) pool table. There are six pockets in the table, and for this illustration, sixteen balls (including the cue ball). Imagine the pockets as thyroid receptor sites, and the balls as thyroid hormone. Throw all sixteen balls across the table, and one or two will sink, and the body’s biological needs are met. As thyroid levels decline, it’s like taking away a couple of balls, but the body compensates by “up-regulating”. Imagine two more balls are taken away, then two more, until there are only half as many balls remaining. Meanwhile, in response to the declining levels of thyroid hormone, the body has compensated by “up-regulating” the number of receptor sites. “By the time you have eight balls on the table, the body has compensated by putting twelve pockets on the table. You have half the number of balls, but twice the number of pockets, so if you through all eight balls on the table, one or two of them will sink, and the biological function continues. The problem comes when you are down to two balls on the table, but now there are thirty pockets. This is when the person presents to the doctor, and what they see is a hypothyroid patient.
Dragone further explains that during the shortage; deprived of Armour, patients were meanwhile “up regulating”. Their bodies were in need of more, but they were getting none.
When Armour returned to the market; though they now needed an even larger dose than what was previously sufficient; to start with that much, it would be like throwing all sixteen balls on the table at once. But now, with 30 pockets instead of six, maybe as many as ten balls would sink, and you suddenly have a patient with palpitations, and all the problems associated with thyrotoxicosis. It takes time for the body to adjust to gradually increasing doses, by “down-regulating”, or closing off the number of receptor sites.
I have been in touch with Rudy Dragone R.Ph. by email, hoping to encourage him to get together with the artist who produced the “chalk-talk” drawings for Bill Sardi. The concept could make a great dynamic illustration of how the body interacts with thyroid hormone.
Hi everyone,
I started a new batch of pills a couple of days ago 30 mg and when I ordered them the week prior was told over the phone what batch/lot they were but when I called again today to actually write it down (which I should have before) they told me those pills were all gone and they have since reordered a new batch/lot and don’t keep records of previous ones dispensed.
The very next day after starting them I immediately felt better, mood, energy etc and I have my fingers and toes crossed that it continues.
These new pills also have next to know scent to them as the previous ones always did so I was very reluctant they would be better which does prove this is not a psychosematic (sp) thing.
Hi Nick,
Sorry I didn’t see this question of yours. My presciption is filled into a different bottle that the pharmacy gives me so I never see the bottle that it comes in from Erfa.
Nick; Here’s a little something gleaned from “The Thyroid Summit”: When hypothyroidism is adequately treated, BP and cholesterol numbers decline; not because of manipulation of numbers with drugs, but because an underlying deficiency has been corrected.
Been working on paraphrasing something else gleaned from the Thyroid Summit. It’s complicated; involves a pool table analogy; but I think that it might help explain some of the problems we have been having. Hope to have it done by tomorrow.
BTW Nick, hope that your throat is feeling better.
Thanks Chris. When I was called in to see the hypertension nurse, I told her about the thyroid problem, and to her credit, she agreed that it was most likely pushing up my blood pressure.
I was pleasantly surprised as most doctors today focus on one area, seemingly oblivious that all parts of the body are interconnected in some way.
I got the results of my recent blood test last Friday. These were requested by the hypertension nurse rather than my endo.
What is really interesting is that despite me feeling really hypo for the last six months, TSH, T4 and T3 results were the same as they have been over the last few years when ERFA worked well for me.
However, it should also be noted that I had been taking 3 grains a day instead of 2, and that seemed to have made no difference to the blood test results.
Unfortunately I’ve gone down with a nasty throat infection, so am still not in a position to evaluate how well I am now doing on the Thyroid-S (started after the blood test).
WOULD SOMEONE AGREE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE POSTS AND RECORD THE BATCH NUMBERS PLUS SYMPTOMS and put them in the Google Doc link I posted? There can also be symptoms posted even for those who didn’t know the batch number.
It’s also important to avoid posting symptoms for those who may just be experiencing the results of having low cortisol and/or low iron. We’ve got to separate those two issues the best we can i.e. a bad batch vs the results of having low cortisol/low iron.
Hi everybody, thought I chime in. I was quite happy on the “old” erfa for a couple of years and couldn’t get it anymore. I switched to NP Thyroid made by Accela Labs in Georgia. It’s working as well for me as the old erfa (never did try the new and improved version) in the same amounts, and I take in sublingually.
Janie the link takes me to a page telling me to clear my cache, but nothing about Google docs or your page. How can I find it? I will sort the batches that have been reported on another site too.
No Janie I still can’t get to a document, the link takes me to a Google troubleshooting page. However I’ve had a lot of problems with Google recently anyway, so it may be that.
Also the list of comments under Mary Shomon’s January blog about the ERFA backorder, has now been removed. I was going to use that to get a few more batch numbers for you because a lot of people had complained there about the ‘new’ ERFA. I’ll take a look at some of the Facebook pages instead and see what I can find.
So I posted back in June about doing poorly on ERFA. I am now on Amour thyroid- and heres my update
first- here was my initial post in June:
bean
June 18, 2014
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
hope this is information to anyone seeking it
———————-
update 8-2014
So- Ive come around 360 degrees. Armour back in 2009 I think, was the thing that got me switching all around since reformulating and doing bad. Then nature-throid changed, and so on until I took ERFA. So I changed back to Armour (thats what the pharmacy gave me and what my inexperienced in NT endo called in. I think Armour is doing better. I am DEFINITELY better than when taking ERFA !! I was a bit skeptical about going back on Armour since it sent me on this medical wild goose chase through hell and back- but thought i’d try it and if it didn’t work I could ask for something else. So far feel ok, Ive lost 4 pounds and shed waist fat for sure (on ERFA was STUCK in a weight gain pattern), overall thinner, more energy. I do get periods of panic attacks and skipped heart beats so I don’t like that, and its probably due to the Armour (hypo? Hyper ? ) . I’m going to stick with it and see how it treats me for now since its way better than Erfa. The price went up , oh well. And by the way- I asked for my LOT numbers on the Erfa- and they WOULD NOT give them to me! Ok bye for now.
Thanks, that sounds really reassuring! I have also been considering going back on Armour, after feeling hypo (confirmed by labs) on as much as 8 grains of Erfa…a practical question: do you swallow, crush or mix your Armour pills with honey or sugar?
Beano,
Thanks for your letting us all know how you are doing because there are those of us who are not able to get another product and as time moves on, you do start to forget how you once were when you were well, at least I do. I truly wished I’d kept a journal of each and every day of the good days so I could compare to now.
Sandra, when you said: ” I truly wished I’d kept a journal of each and every day of the good days so I could compare to now.”; you said a mouth full. If only we had documentation with which to compare, from when it was that we felt good, including test scores. But how many of us were thinking about such documentation in our prime, or even knew about the appropriate tests. An even bigger question, did our doctors know?!
On August 15th I began playing “Guinea Pig”, by taking Nutri-pak bovine Thyroid, starting with a similar amount (130mg) to what I had last taken of Erfa (120mg). Not knowing their relative strengths, I split the tablets in half, and divided the dose, morning & evening. After three days, I added another half. Yesterday, took a total of two tablets, and have noticed a slight budge in my basal temperatures; up from 97.2 to 97.4, 97.5, and now 97.7. Pulse rate has not changed, no nervousness, but maybe a little improved feeling of attention, yet calm. Could still use more energy though.
Apparently, this product is FDA approved as a supplement, and is not treated as a drug, so no Rx required. Why? I do not know. So far, I give it a “thumbs up”. Time will tell if it deserves two.
Hi Chris,
Not sure if you come back and read previous comments but unfortunately I don’t think we can get that in Canada :(.
Once again we are stuck with no options but to pray things go back. My quality of life at 51 has changed and it sucks and no, it’s not menopausal symptoms!
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO THROUGH ALL THESE COMMENTS AND WRITE DOWN LOT NUMBERS….and add comments about what happened to people on these batches. Also write down expiration dates and comments. WHO WILL DO THIS??
I was on 8 grains of Erfa (4 x 125 mg daily) and both FTs came back low (FT4 1 (ref 0.7-1.7), FT3 2.8 (ref 1.8-3.8) 24 hours after latest dose. I then switched to a bottle of 60 mg pills (batch no LF03141A, exp 10/16) and my latest labs scream hyperthyroid: FT4 2.2, FT3 6.6, so both out of range. The only thing that has changed is the batch. Unfortunately, I don’t have the 125 mg bottle anymore, but both bottles were the new ones (pink/white and green/white respectively), and the pills look like the ones to the right in the photo. But, for some reason, the 60 mg pills work a lot better than the 125 mg ones…
Hello. I’ve been on Erfa for a little over 6 months now. I’m taking 90mg Erfa, and 1/2 of a 75mcg Synthroid daily.
I’ve been reading the posts, but I can’t find where you are finding your lot numbers. Do I have to ask my Pharmacist for this info?
Thank you.
I wonder if all these various pill makers do their own desiccation? Probably not.
If the desiccated gland used to make the pills is sourced from more than one supplier, perhaps there is some variation in the processing that is destroying the effectiveness of some of the product. This could account for the fact that some batches are good.
When baking at home, its SO easy to leave the cookies in the oven just a little too long….
I have an old bottle with a few unused pieces of good Erfa from Oct2013. It smells VERY different from the Feb2014 bottle that caused such awful side effects for me. Sorry no batch numbers on those, the pharmacy said they don’t keep records of batch numbers, which I find hard to believe.
Even though I had just received a new shipment of #800 Erfa, I decided not to take a chance. I chose to switch to WP for 2 reasons: low number of fillers, & my compounding pharmacist told me that RLC has tighter controls on the amounts of active ingredients.
It’s been just over 5 weeks now. So far I am still feeling much better than I did on that last batch of Erfa.
Hi -I read through the posts here about this issue with EFRA. While I appreciate how devastating this has been,
as I went through the reformulation with Armour (it didn’t work anymore for me either), alright already!
It’s settled — the stuff doesn’t work anymore. They aren’t going to fix it, just as Forest Labs didn’t.
Now Let’s move on and make a positive step forward to find out what does work.
Furthermore, here’s my suggestion for TRYING to stop this from ever happening again.
I’m hearing here thyroid S and WP are both possibilities, yes? Then maybe once we see what works best
we collectively get involved – almost like a union (or like a costco) – and communicate with the manufacturer
telling them we will be purchasing their product and want to be involved or informed with all changes having to do
with reformulation or manufacturing facilities, etc. Even better we say collectively we won’t continue to purchase their
product unless we are asked about any changes – I’m just throwing it out there. Basically, what we’d be doing is saying
we’ll bring you business, the same way the docs do. Moreover, we can write a letter almost like a petition and get count on STTM
followers, have Janie sign it representing us. As for ERFA, we can send a similar letter to them and say we will no longer be
purchasing or recommending your product– also giving them the numbers of people we are talking about. Who knows- maybe the dopes
reach out to us.
I think this is a good idea in theory CNY, but am not convinced that the manufacturers really care about our opinion. It would be good though to have advance warning of any changes.
I do think it would be good to have somewhere for people to say how the different brands suited them and to compare them all. I’ve found it confusing to have to decide because of the differing comments about each brand – and just when I’d decided to try WP I was contacted by someone who had a batch of that which was damaged in transit. Best of all would be to pool brands and each try each one, that might lead to some sort of consensus but would be impractical to carry out.
As far as ERFA is concerned it seems that they only received a small number of complaints compared with their overall distribution, that the majority were not from Canada (or not the area of Canada where they are based) and that they weren’t concerned because of this. The worst scenario is that their customer base reduces, they can’t cover the cost of the new ‘facility’ so they stop making it altogether. I still don’t think they’d care about our opinion or how many of us this has affected, but it would give some satisfaction to send the letter you suggest!
I’m curious and would love to hear from those of us who have been greatly affected, are your symptoms constant each and every day progessively getting worse or do you have days where you may be bit better but overall the decline increases every time you do have a worse day?
Gina,
In a nutshell, the quality of our lives is once again being ruined. We have no choice but to try another product which I urge you to do before this goes on too long for you. The longer you wait, the longer it takes to reverse all that the hypo state does to ones health so perhaps read all the messages here and see which other dessicated thyroid product will be worth trying.
Good luck.
I have been taking the new ERFA pills for about 3 weeks. My hair has been falling out, my wrists hurt, I am very bloated and have terrible brain fog.
Batch #LF03727A
Exp 04/2017
Why would ERFA do this to so many patients?! I just don’t understand
Janie, I would appreciate your thoughts about these 24 hr. cortisol scores.
02:15 am – 4.1 ; 07:55 am – 6.1 ; 14:15 pm – 1.5 ; 20:59 pm – 0.8 Thank you.
The ‘chart’ that the lab’s computer generates appears to assume that everyone’s day begins, and cortisol peaks, around 6:00 am. Using that interpretation, my first three scores line up a little below the low-normal line. However, the fourth dot shown at 02:15 am, is way off the chart, showing about five times what a low-normal score would be for someone ‘normally’ awakening around 06:00 am. But, if the reference range curves were to be shifted to the left by about four hours (to better match my sleep/wake cycle), then my scores would appear to all line up near ‘high normal’ or maybe even at the ‘high’ line.
Talk about confusing! I’m not sure if I should be considering adaptogens for low cortisol, or magnolia bark for high cortisol. My doctor didn’t comment on this disparity, and was appeared focused on a different issue.
My Ferritin also runs high, for which I am planning to start donating blood (as advised by “Health Journalist” Bill Sardi. – Those interested in lowering their own potential for “rusting”, can check out this “Have A Heart Health Radio” archived internet radio program from 06/08/2014. Bill’s advice about ferritin starts a little after the 10:30 minute mark. http://billsardihealthandwealthshow.com/2014/06/ Admittedly, there are a couple products that the program pitches, but each first half hour, in general, is devoted to nutrition and debunking some of the missteps of so called “modern” medicine. )
Chris, high ferritin is NOT a reason to give blood!!! High ferritin is from inflammation that needs treatment. It’s hemochromatosis that needs blood donations, and hemochromatosis makes all your iron labs high, not just ferritin. Also, you didn’t give ranges, so it’s hard to comment. But compare what we have learned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values Your wakeup morning cortisol, which I’m assuming 7:55 is, should be at the tip top of the range, for example. I’m thinking yours is not. So that’s low cortisol i.e not hemachromatosis and blood donations.
Thank you, Janie, but 7:55 was an erroneous assumption. My first saliva was collected after awakening at 02:15 am.
Here again are the numbers, along with ZRT’s stated “reference ranges”:
02:15 am — 4.1 – r.r. 3.7 – 9.5 (First saliva collected after awakening)
07:55 am — 6.1 – r.r. 3.7 – 9.5 (The same r.r. is given; as both are registered by the lab as “Morning” scores)
14:15 pm — 1.5 – r.r. 0.6 – 1.9
20:50 pm — 0.8 – r.r. 0.4 – 1.0
Not everyone’s life runs on the same schedule.
Do different labs, running the same tests, actually get completely different numbers? I have heard said that labs typically throw out the top and bottom %5 of all scores, and the remaining 90% represents THEIR particular “reference range”… over the last X# of tests. But subject to change… over the next X# of tests.
Re: iron… Women loose their cardiovascular risk advantage over men, when they reach menopause and iron starts building up, instead of being lost each month. Think of blood donation as exerting a little influence over ‘Mother Nature’, and ‘Father Time’.
If you wake up for your “morning wakeup” every morning around 2:15 am (i.e. you go to bed for the “evening” far earlier than the rest of us, or have a work schedule that means you have to wake up far earlier), that should be at the tip top of the range. i.e. 2:15 is your 8 am.
A little update -i have been taking WP Thyroid for 6 weeks now and am feeling much much better -it has taken me ages to get over from taking Erfa as I ended up being so poorly and had to take over 5 weeks off work plus a month of holiday! Interestingly enough now I am stable on WP am noticing that i can take a much lower dose -a whole grain and more, less! Erfa was not working in my system and I did feel like i wasn’t taking anything but just going downhill -very scary. My endocrinologist felt the meds were not being absorbed into the cells because my blood tests were still in range (but lower then before) but i was showing signs and symptoms of classic hypothyroidism -it was felt Erfa was back-stacking in my blood. i can therefore only assume that something was preventing my body from absorbing it…..strange after being so well on it for over two years! -.hope you are listening Dr Knafo!
I still have a lot of weight to shift that I have put on in recent months but am no longer gaining and have lost a little bit – at least am now beginning to feel well enough to consider setting up a walking and low grade exercise programme.
The one thing i have noticed with WP is that storage is important -it needs to be kept in it’s bottles with the little sachet to keep it dry or it goes sticky…..so during the day I use one of the old bottles with the sachet still in it to transport my daytime dose. This works well…The rest i have stored in the fridge as we have just had a heatwave here in the UK….
No, I haven’t heard any more than any of you have from Dr. Knafo. i.e. Erfa is stone-walling and refusing to admit that something has been seriously wrong with Erfa.
I’m now starting to feel a slight improvement after a few days on Thyroid-S.
Yesterday I received my blood test results (blood taken prior to starting on Thyroid-S, ie while taking ERFA) and the thyroid results were fine. So while I have been feeling terrible on ERFA, it does seem have been doing something as regards blood test results. I had the same experience when they changed Armour, my test results were fine but it obviously wasn’t working as regards making me well.
I hope that I’m wrong but I can’t help thinking that this situation with ERFA is all too like what happened with Armour after the FDA got involved with it.
Hi Nick,
I too have ordered Thyroid-S and am very hopeful now that I hear your news. Thank you for letting us all know how you are doing. Unfortunately when they ship to Canada, there is no way to track it and I am left guessing when it will arrive, anywhere from 10-25 business days!!!! So long to wait when one is not well.
In the meantime I have had to fill a new prescription of Erfa and it is not the same as my old batch and when I got home opened the bottle to see what it looked like and found there is absolutely no smell to the new pills. The old pills, about 15 of them have a strong smell but nothing for 350 new pills. How the heck can this be if there is “nothing different”?
Its all B.S.!!!
Nick it’s very interesting that your blood test results were the same as usual on your latest ERFA. This can only mean that the hormone content is the same but that something else in the tablets has caused some of us to react. I didn’t take mine for long enough to find out what would happen, the first three days of stomach issues were enough for me! I’ve also noticed on the FTPO Canada Facebook group that the majority of people in the Eastern part of Canada are still doing fine on ERFA, but not some of those in the Western part. On the FTPO International and Europe groups a lot of people in the US and Europe have had a problem. So it could also be some ingredient damaged in storage, by heat or some other damage during transit.
Anne, I’m in Eastern Canada, and as you know, I didn’t do well (understatement!) on the new ERFA. I don’t know if we can find any clear pattern to this. I agree that it’s more likely a problem with ‘other’ ingredient(s) in the tablets. Like you, I had a severe and immediate reaction.
I have had problems on both the early 2014 batches AND the batch that some seemed to do well on, LFO3508A. I get twitchy, feel like nerve endings are raw, have palpitations and eventually feel week and shaky…Do not seem to absorb the WP hardly at all…not sure why…someone mentioned some WP batches being heat damaged…would like to know where I can find more info. I too have had “normal” labs on the early 2014 ERFA, but something else not right. ERFA/Knafo have not answered my questions reqarding other ingredients OR my requests to see the results of the supposed “investigation” they performed.. I agree that this a problem with a change in the other Ingredients…really no other assumption to make.
I switched from ERFA back in the early Winter to WP thyroid, and immediately went hypo as my latest labs showed. I’m wondering if the issue with WP thyroid went back that far. I’m now on Thyroid-S, and was one of the “lucky” ones who got an order in for it before they ran out that should do me a while.
Someone above mentioned the GMO link. I actually thought of that myself a few days ago. Which country that makes NDT uses non-GMO feed? I’m going to look into this company myself in Colorado that is making NDT with non-GMO feed.
Is there any update on ERFA yet?
Tamara, Last Monday, I ordered a bottle of that New Zealend, non GMO certified, bovine (cow) sourced thyroid that I mentioned awhile back. In searching for the product name”Nutri-Pak”, I discovered four mail order sources in the US that sell it. They are located in: Kelso WA, Boulder CO, Wautoma WI, and Elmwood Park, IL. That last source is part of a chain called “Fruitful Yield Health Foods”, which lists at least ten “brick and mortar” stores in Illinois.
The Kelso, WA site from which I ordered, offers a basic shipping and handling rate of $4.99 (inside the US) via USPS, and advertises a 3 – 8 day delivery. (I received my shipment in 3 days!) http://nutripakonline.com/Contact-Info.html . Online tracking of the shipment was also available. The box in which it was sent could hold as many as 4 such bottles. Don’t know to what amount that would influence postage. Even if they charged $4.99 for each bottle, I think it would still compare favorably (costwise) to Erfa, mg for mg.
Since Friday, I have been slowly adjusting doses, and evaluating the effects. The tablets are only offered in 130 mg. So far, I have worked up to 1 1/2 tablets/day, in divided doses, and closely watching my temps and pulse rate. I am feeling a little better than I had been on 120 mg of Erfa, but there is still room for improvement.
The taste is not objectionable, however, the texture is terribly gritty. It does not lend itself to being taken sublingualy.
On one of the web sites (along with a surprising variety of “glandulars”), Nutri-Pak also offered thyroid capsules in either bovine or porcine.
My problem is that I feel I can’t trust ERFA anymore. I felt as though my stomach was on fire. The whole of my insides seemed to burn. I tried raising but just got horrible headaches and looked and felt awful.
I’m sticking with WP thyroid for the tine being and raising slowly. I miss ERFA so much but just can’t trust it. At least with WP Thyroid I know it’s coming from a manufacturer who has never had their NDT’s recalled which makes me feel safe.
After years of lack of understanding about what was going on with me, I’ve just been diagnosed with hypothyroidism.
I need advices because as a matter of fact one of my friends has got hypothyroidism to and she’s having Erfa medication. It seems to work with her so I wanted to test this one to. But then I discovered you blog..
Is there any one here who is happy with Erfa?
It’s all new for me and I see so many bad comments while my friend is feeling so well with Erfa…
Thanks for your help
new here, just checking out the site. heres another thought… didnt see it mentioned anywhere. if some are having problems, others not, as well as some noting a changed pill look and others not…. i have read lately about counterfeit meds finding their way into legitimate pharmacies. the counterfeits often look remarkable similar to the real thing, identical packaging etc. they can be sugar pills or sometimes contain less active ingredient. if someone in the supply chain did a swap on a couple boxes somewhere this would also explain alot (including why ERFA testing came out ok).
might also be real interesting if only certain cities are involved. (which could also indicate heat damage etc)
John I have wondered about counterfeit ERFA but when I raised my concern with Dr Knafo and offered to send him some of my tablets for analysis I didn’t get an answer. I’m amazed that he hasn’t agreed to analyse the actual tablets people are complaining about, rather than the stocks they still have of the same batches.
i agree with you. to check out some of the “problem” pills would be good. also, to not do so could end up being a huge marketing faux pas for them.
it would do several things.1. it would demonstrate to their customers they are interested in resolving any problems rather than saving the money needed to investigate/fix them. 2. if turns out to be counterfeit, heat damage etc this would prove its not a manufacturing problem (and they didnt lie to us saying that its not) and the product is still a good one to use. 3. if never resolved, when all future potential customers read thru these internet posts researching ERFA, they’ll be left wondering…. when is the next time the rug is going to be pulled out from under me? why use a treatment if it may change and leave me with nothing?. 4. on the other hand, if they were to have 20 or 30 customers send in some old “good” pills and some new “problem” pills and have them checked…at least they could report this to everyone to show theyre not just sticking their heads into the sand.
on the other hand, it may be a real problem for the company if regulators find out, so they may just be trying to keep things quiet and hoping it all goes away.
i suspect the preference of everyone on this list would be if there was a temporary glitch to get it fixed because alot of folks seem to like this product.
Nick I chew my Thyroid-S thoroughly then swallow whatever is left, because it has a hard coating supposed to keep it intact until the large intestine or something like that. I also take 2.5 grains so split one tablet and checked with others first that you could do this. Some people seem to swallow and some chew and then do sublingual. Please let me know if you think you need more or less than you took of ERFA to feel the same, thanks.
It’s still only a few days so I am still assessing how I am doing on Thyroid-S. I do feel slightly better already though – a bit ‘brighter’. I am taking the same dose as my ERFA, ie 2 tablets per day, and will experiment to see what works best.
Hi Nick,
I was wondering how you are doing now that some time has passed with you being on Thyroid-S?
I have been off on vacation this week and it has been a write off for me which is so sad as I truly look forward to my time off to get so much done (sounds countertproductive I know, but I’m a dooer kind of personality who thrives on checking off the to do list). I finally received my Thyroid-S in the mail and before I started it wondered how you are doing. I have three days of vaca left and even though I have been feeling less than great before taking my vacation, I cannot afford to feel worse than I do as I will need to be back at work Tuesday.
Hi cjean
I’ve replaced my erfa with WP thyroid. It’s early days yet and I’m nowhere near stable because I literally had to start again from square one but so far I’m tolerating it. No nasty reaction. Just raising slowly.
For the first time, I received my ERFA thyroid in the weird looking bottle; I was fairly stable on 2.5 grains (dr. made me lower b/c of high FT3 and unmeasurable TSH) and since starting on the new bottle, my joints are so achy, I am retaining water like crazy – sleep all off — hot flashes — I do have low cortisol. I have cortef, which I took, but after a few weeks, is when I started to ache, like cramping in my feet and pain in my wrists — made me feel really hypo again, so I stopped. I think I had low potassium and maybe the cortef made it worse? All I know now is that I feel SO hypo, carpal tunnel, fluid retention blah — I am SO sick of feeling like shit…sorry, but need some help. Don’t know what to switch to — I have some Thyro-Gold, maybe a trial to see if I feel better?
Thanks.
FYI Shauna: Informed patients stopped letting their doctors lower their meds due to a suppressed TSH. That is normal when optimal on NDT!
But as far as Erfa, each patient has to make sure they don’t confuse the symptoms of low cortisol with a potential bad batch of Erfa. i.e. those are two different things. If you have low cortisol as proven by a 24 hour adrenal cortisol test, you’ll have problems raising any NDT, including Thyro-Gold.
Finally, there is a particular method to using Cortef (if you needed it). It’s explained in Chapter 6 in the revised STTM book.
While researching the subject of B12 deficiency, I came across a symptom that is not often listed. Apparently a shortage of B12 means that the body does not utilize hormones efficiently.
I know that I am short of B12, and I’m one who has not done well on EFRA since around February this year. Could that be the factor that makes the difference between those of us with a problem with certain thyroid medications, and those who don’t?
I’m just off for a blood test requested by the hypertension nurse at my local medical centre. I am praying that something shows up on that re the B12 situation as I have not taken my supplement for a couple of months now.
Hello all,
I just can’t understand what I’m reading here.
I’ve been on Thyroid for 3 years now (so before and after the change of supplier) and everything is ok for me…
Yes I’ve noticed the change in the design of the bottle and the pills. It surprised me at first and I called Erfa to know if I had to change my dosage.
I trusted them when they said that the formulation was exactly the same.
Erfa changed my life and I’m still more than happy with my medication.
I don’t know if you’ll post my message but it was important for me to report my experience.
So Kelly, for the last 7 months or so have you been using any of the lot numbers, noted on this site, that others have been experiencing difficulty with? Thanks for the clarification.
It’s good to know of people who aren’t affected by this, please could you let us know the batch number, expiry date and dose of your tablets of ERFA Thyroid and also what country you are in? Thanks 🙂
The majority of people must be doing well on it otherwise we’d be hearing more about it, but some people are reporting a batch is good when others are having problems with the same batch, so it has become very confusing and may not mean there’s a problem with the manufacture.
Hi Shirley,
Now I’m on Thyroid 60mg LFO3139A (expiration 2016)
I’m sure that I’ve bought some of the ones mentioned but to be honest I don’t have them anymore since I was okay with them :s Sorry
I live in Canada Anne 🙂 I hope it will help
From now on I’ll keep my bottles so I’ll be able to be more precise next time…
Hi Kelly,
Thanks for letting me know your batch number. I’ve just done a general internet search, then searched on about 6 specific sites I know of where people have recorded their problems with ERFA, and that batch number only appears once, in a post on Janie’s first blog about this, asking if it’s ok. So it looks as if this batch can be assumed to be ok for the moment. The only hesitation I have is that the previous three consecutive batches (LF03136/7/8A) are fine according to some people but not according to others. It’s a puzzle!
Hi Janie, thanks for this post. I actually never knew I was taking Erfa or what it was even though I’ve been on this medication for 8 years or so, because I got my pills from Shoppers Drug Mart and they take them out of the manufacturer bottle and put them in a blank bottle with their own label. This time, they ran out and I had to go to Safeway, and put two and two together. I have been feeling awful.
Is there a master list of bad batches somewhere? I”m about to try this new one that I just got. I’d love to know which ones people are reporting, I see a few in the comments but no concise list.
No master list. But if you or someone could write down all the batches mentioned for me in the comments in this string, and include whether the person is doing well on each batch or not, I can post it. And you would get a CYBER GOLD STAR for doing it!!
Thanks you for your help Janey, I thought my ferritin was good a last but I’ll try to sort it out and also start treating my adrenals again. I think the Thyroid-S must be weaker than ERFA and that’s why I got this reaction because it only began when I took my whole dose as Thyroid-S, not while I was still substituting bits of ERFA. Hopefully when Nick tries his he’ll come back and say if he needs more than he did ERFA or less.
For what it’s worth, Anne, people don’t get the palps and shakiness you describe just from being on a low dose. Those are usually associated with either an iron or cortisol problem….
Thanks Janey but this is curious, because I didn’t have either of those on the old ERFA which I was taking bits of up until last week, only three days after switching entirely to Thyroid-S. From the two reasons cortisol is the most likely going by past experience, so I shall do something about it again.
I believe you, but that doesn’t mean that Thyroid-S isn’t revealing the cortisol or iron problem now. It could be that the bad batches of Erfa didn’t have enough thyroid hormones in them (or they were blocked, or they were weakened) to cause what Thyroid-S is revealing to you.
Janie: I’m with Anne on this one. I have not taken any Thyroid-S, but have tried a new batch of ERFA that I feel better on, but weak and shaky after a couple days in. I also have a UTI that seems to be tied to use of this batch, but am not completely sure yet. I do not have problems on the older ERFA batches or the bad ERFA batches..Nor have I had issues on N-T or WP until a batch I opened day before yesterday..Have a physical coming up and a spare cortisol kit, so can certainly check on iron and cortisol status, but seem to have issues only on certain batches.
Are we starting to see issues with other porcine thyroid replacements as well? We need to monitor this because I have NEVER had such problems with NDT. Something seems to definitely be going on.
Anne
Thanks Janie, now done, also apologies for mis-spelling your name for days!
Anne
Can I ask what symptoms people are having on the ERFA which is causing problems? Is it a gradual decline into feeling hypo or is a sudden reaction? I got immediate stomach upsets and didn’t continue taking it, kept to an old batch, gradually substituted some Thyroid-S until I was taking only Thyroid-S. But now I’ve had one day of complete exhaustion and today woke up shaking with palpitations, which can only be caused by the Thyroid-S. I still feel awful and don’t know what to try any more, nothing seems to suit everyone who used to get on with ERFA and I’m wondering if taking some of the new ERFA might be better than how I feel at the moment..
Anne, there appears to be outright something wrong with Erfa now.
BUT…..you also have to distinguish if what you are going through is just from Erfa now being bad, or that desiccated thyroid (NDT) is revealing that you now have either low iron or cortisol, which NDT will reveal. So if you have had complete exhaustion also on Thyroid-S, that tells you that you either aren’t raising high enough, or you do have either an iron or cortisol problem which it’s revealing. You need to read https://stopthethyroidimadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thanks Janey but I’ve had a lot of tests recently and my iron is apparently fine – 111.5 (60-180), ferritin 143.4 (10-291) both in April – and serum cortisol last November was 425 nmol/L at 8.45am no range given, but a recent saliva test also showed it as fine (I took hydrocortisone for some years but am now treated by a medical herbalist and adrenals seem to have been coping for a long time). I’ve been taking NDT for years, first Armour until it reformulated, then Naturethroid until it too reformulated then ERFA and was doing very well on it and am still ok on an older batch of ERFA, so I know that NDTs suit me normally. I have just a few tablets left of an old batch of ERFA and took 1 grain today (usual dose is 2.5 grains but I’m worried about running out) instead of taking any more of the Thyroid-S because I felt so awful.
You say that there’s now an outright problem with ERFA, is anyone getting anywhere with the company? Dr Knafo emailed me recently to ask how I was doing which I thought odd, but presumably it’s his way of monitoring those who’ve complained. I’ve asked him if there are any batches which no-one has complained about but not had a reply yet. I’d give anything to get a good batch of ERFA again! Meanwhile I think I’ll order some WP and hope it’s ok. Someone has reported that their batch of that was ’empty’ due to heat during transport which is worrying, and it contains lactose which i avoid, but there’s not much choice left now.
Thanks Janey and sorry if I’m being dense, but how does that ferritin result show inflammation? I thought it was good because years ago it was down to 7 and my GP told me it was fine then I read it had to be over 75. Also what sort of inflammation?
The latest salivary cortisol test I had done was four weeks ago and the results were 9am 18.9 (12-22), midday 9 (5 – 9), afternoon 4.1 (3-7) and night 0.9 (1-3). DHEA ratio came back 0.16 (0.1-0.5). The alternative doc who arranged them said my DHEA could do with boosting but cortisol was fine.
I don’t think the problem can be a reformulation of ERFA, the batches involved are so random and some people are fine others not, also some batches are ok packed in 100s but not packed in 500s. I wish they’d stop blaming us and I could back to feeling normal, or else know what else to try which would be similar.
Anne, when you have inflammation, your body automatically thrusts iron into storage to stop the iron from feeding the inflammation and making it worse. Any kind of inflammation will do this.
Your morning is actually just ‘slightly’ too low, though not yet considered “low cortisol”. People with healthy morning cortisol are usually at the tip top, like 22 or 21. Noon is too high. Afternoon is too low–definitely low cortisol there. You have a stress response, showing your adrenals are taking a hit and need support, like high dose Vit. C, b-vitamins, and herbal support.
Emmy
I started WP Throid and am feeling bad. It does not do sublingual as well as Erfa. My FT3 & FT4 are both very bottom of the range and my TSH has risen. I had labs June 30 knowing I was switching from ERFA since it was having problems and then again on July 7 as I was feel so bad after only 2 weeks on it. Any suggestions? Should I raise the WP Throid (taking 65 mcg & 12.5-25mcgof cytomel currently). I was on 60 ERFA & 12.5-25mcg of cytomel before.
Thank you Nick for sharing your 30 mg batch number of Erfa Thyroid with me. Can anyone else advise me of bad batch numbers of 30 mg Erfa Thyroid pills, or, any GOOD batch numbers of 30 mg pills ? Are the problems occuring for users of 60 mg pills, or are other 30 mg pill users experiencing problems? Thank you for your help, I am grateful for it!
This is so strange because someone in Spain has said that batch is ok for her. Someone here has also said that the batch I have (13C06, 125mg x 500) is fine for him. It seems to me that the entire batches aren’t a problem but that something has happened to some of them. On a different forum someone has mentioned that they have bought WP Thyroid but it has no potency due to being heat damaged during transport and that this problem is known about. I am hoping to get the link about the problem soon, because I have been buying first Armour, then Naturethroid and then ERFA for years and never had a problem due to transport to me.
Anne…I have just finished a batch of WP that I did OK on as long as I included some “Lact-Aid” (just nibbled a little with each dose). However a 2nd batch of WP is really causing me issues. Agitation, fatigue…similar to the bad batch ERFA issues. When you find that link, please let me know..in the meantime, it may be back to Nature-throid.
Hi Angie, this is the link which I was sent by a person who is also having problems with WP: http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroiddrugstreatments/a/drugsinsummer.htm
Soon there won’t be anything left to try 🙁 oh and I still haven’t heard back from Dr Knafo of course. I seem to be ok on Thyroid-s, had a few shaky days last week, but perhaps it’s ok after all. I know several people taking it with no problem, but I don’t like the list of fillers and wish Thiroyd had worked for me instead. I may give it another try actually.
Anne
Leyna I have asked Dr Kanfo if he could let me know the batch numbers of any ERFA which no-one has complained about. I don’t know if I will get a response though. Meanwhile I have been told that the following are ok BN136051 expiry 07 2016 60mgs and
LF03140B expiry 10/2016 60mgs, however I don’t have them and haven’t tried them unfortunately.
Hello again, Anne. I responded at great length to Dr. Knafo sometime ago, again requested the results of the investigation, and have not received a response.
I would very much like to hear from those of you who have switched to WP THYROID because of the ERFA problem. I have just started taking it. How are you doing on it?
After 17 days on WP, I am still feeling good most of the time. My mood & focus are stabilizing. I have lost one pound, no headaches, less pain in joints, only a few almost imperceptible palpitations, nothing like the horrible ones I was having with ERFA. I have not had any more flushing, as I noted in my first rambling posting of Aug 5. My focus seems much better now. This past week I have even started reorganizing my art supplies & started a new project!
I wonder if the flushing I had was from the sudden uptake of T3 when I switched from ERFA to WP?
Hello Pattycakes,
That sounds like really great positive steps forward. Also sounds as though you are becoming creative again which must be a huge relief for you. Thank you for replying…..it gives me hope too. Hope you continue to improve and that your your health returns.x
No Janet, we are not all nuts. There is definitely a problem somewhere, and I am leaning towards that problem being with what is being fed to the pigs on which we rely.
Yesterday, an online news site included an article with a direct accusation as to the cause of birth defects identified by one Danish pig farmer named Ib Borup Pedersen. That article identified one particular chemical manufacturer; but ever since their patent expired, they are no longer the sole producer of that herbicide which happens to be an endocrine disruptor. Different companies combine glyphosate with different adjuvants (substances that intensify an effect), some of which can apparently be even worse than the glyphosate itself.
Twenty years ago, I remember the Danish countryside being covered with bright yellow fields of a crop that I was told would be dried and used for Winter fodder. Now, several Western hemisphere countries are apparently major sources of GMO soy animal feed that is shipped to Europe. Naively, I did not suspect that EU attitudes against GMOs did not extend to feed for their farm animals!
When I suggested that it would be nice if ERFA purchased their raw materials from Denmark, rather than from where ever they had been getting them, little did I realize how wide spread the potential problem was.
“GM soy linked to health damage in pigs – a Danish Dossier”
When farmer Pedersen ran out of feed, he had purchased some imported GMO feed, and shortly ran into all sorts of problems with his herd. He switched back to non-GMO feed without saying anything to his farm hand. Within days, his farm hand noticed an improvement.
“Danish Whistle-blowers Reveal Links between GM soy, Roundup and Health Damage in Pig Herd”
It is quite possible that Dr. Knafo has made absolutely no changes in the production of ERFA; but that an increasing number of farmers, have changed their pigs’ feed.
I’m still leaning towards trying some of that NZ bovine thyroid glandular product, “nutri-pak THYROID”, by way of Colorado.
The title of this article from NZ, lends support to my decision: “GE animal feed? No thanks! ”
Wow Chris,
That is amazing and very scarey information for if this is the case then what options does that leave us. It would be interesting to find out, for all the other dessicated products that continue to work for people, where do they get there material from. I remember specifically my pharmacy telling me that back when it was on back order for the first time that they were told by Erfa that they had changed their supplier. They can say it isn’t so but why would a pharmacist make that up?
Sandra, between the farmer and pharmacist; there are two interim levels of “supplier”. ERFA’s processor is now in Spain, instead of Belgium. But from where is their processor getting the raw materials??? If ERFA changed supplier just for the sake of price, then sadly, they have “sold-out” their reputation, and our source for a product we have come to rely on. That ultimately can’t be good for their bottom line.
I highly recommend this YouTube video that I discovered this morning, which is sort of a debate between a self assured CBC TV ‘personality’ named Kevin O’Leary, and a very astute fourteen year old advocate for GMO labeling. It is titled: “Rachel Parent debates GMO’s (vs) Kevin O’Leary on CBC’s Lang & O’Leary Exchange”. (Either use your search engine to find it, or type in the usual www. then copy, cut, & paste: youtube.com/watch?v=TX_-Zoom9Uc The format of this blog does not allow for the posting of URL links.)
I have about 6 unopened bottles and some are the so called “bad” batches and I’ve opened them and they look exactly the same as the ones I am taking now which are the “old” bottles. Not shiny…no discoloration. No deeper indentions. Hoping the are ok!
Like many of you, I’ve done well with Erfa for many years, and am horrified to learn about the recent problems so many folks are having with it. It’s been a while since I’ve needed to refill my script, but I will soon need to. Can anyone tell me if there have been problems with 30 mg Thyroid tablets?? If so, are there specific batch #’s or expir. dates I should try to GET or AVOID? Last but not least, I live in the US and have ordered directly from Erfa in the past, but more recently, through Canadadrugs.com. Has anyone had luck requesting specific batches or expir. dates when ordering online? If so is there an online company that has been sympathetic or at least accomodating re checking the batch no/expir. dates ahead of the sale? Deepest thanks in advance to anyone who can advise me regarding 30 mg tablets. Thank you!!!!
Leyna I have a bottle of LF03508A 30mg tablets, expiry 02/2017, and they ARE working. I am wondering if Nicks expiry date is different? Could batch numbers be the same for different dates? My bottle also says Montreal Canada on it. Could this make a difference too? Geez how confusing!!
Nick..I have this same batch..and with years of experience, I can’t tell you if it’s working or not. I feel hypo and then alternatively hyper. I have some weak shakiness and feeling like I just can not deal with stress on this new batch..at ALL. HR a little higher than usual and temps lower. Also a recurring UTI and a little weight gain.
I am having problems as well and seem to have the same symptoms as Bettina. I am going to try sublingual method. Increase the dose a bit and take it split a.m and p.m.. Also, taking more selenium and including a few drops of iodine. I am hoping this will work. I contacted the company and they are standing firm that there is no difference in the manufacturing process. Go figure. Are we all nuts???
I was doing great, feeling healthy and strong for a long time, a month ago I started taking the Canada NT that I had received a month ago (before I was taking Armour that I had from 7 months ago), well, for the past 4 weeks, i have been feeling awful, tired, my thyroid has swollen, i have nausea most of the time and my body aches. Now I hear about other people having problems! I can’t even think straight !
Nick when you try the Thyroid-S please will you come back and say how you’re getting on. I’ve taking it since mid-June, just small amounts to start with along with some old ERFA, but this last week have had days of exhaustion and waking up shaking with palpitations since taking my whole dose as Thyroid-S. I’m not sure if I need more of it than I did ERFA or less and can’t find anyone else who’s swapped it for ERFA to compare. Thanks.
Has anybody got any spare Prozac? I’ve just received my next two months supply of ERFA, and it is batch LF03507A despite writing to my endo three times about this issue!
Nick there is one person from Spain on the STTM Canada Facebook page who has batches LF03506A, LF03507A and LF03508A and thinks they all look ok and is getting on ok with the first one, having had a bad batch earlier this year. So it may be worth trying the ones you’ve been given in case they’re ok, because it seems that not all of the same batches are bad, or perhaps it’s that some people are reacting to some batches and some to others.
I started Erfa last summer & was doing pretty well with it until about February. First fatigue, then exhaustion, lack of interest in my usual activites, and headaches, with a continual feeling of a clamp on my head. Ugh. I gained back ten of the fifteen pounds I had previously lost. Several times a day i would have a tightness in my neck/throat area that is difficult to describe & i would feel faint. The worst symptom of all though, were the heart palpitations. It felt like my heart was turning over in my chest. My doctor ordered a Halter monitor then reduced my dosage again from 3.5 to 3gr. Palpitations quieted, but I could barely function.
Then I found all of you, and realize I am not alone!
My doctor prescribed WP Thyroid. I knew from the first dose (3gr sublingual, 6am-10am-2pm) that
Something is not right about that previous batch of Erfa (unknown batch number).
The only side effect that I have had with WP is an episode of facial flushing 24 hrs after first dose & another episode 48 hours after that. Felt like hot pepper sauce poured on my skin, not like a hot flash & my elbows were red too. Both times I had taken my usual handful of vitamins just before the flush started, so I stopped them & am adding them back, one at a time, Iodoral first.
When I felt the best on Erfa I was at 3.75gr. (before February).
I was feeling very hypo after a week on WP at 3gr so 2 days ago I went up to 3.25gr and felt better immediately.
I have read every single one of these comments! Thanks to everybody for writing.
This website has helped me SO much. Janie, you convinced me to get off Synthroid after more than 40 years! Truly I feel SO much better than I did taking it. And now you have helped me again with this information about Erfa. Thank you very much.
Patty, you mentioned taking a usual “hand full of vitamins”. By any chance, did you take a larger amount, or a different type of niacin than usual? Niacin flush can cause a very uncomfortable “hot pepper sauce” feel. I have occasionally felt it after taking a B Complex capsule, that previously hadn’t caused problems. Maybe it came from taking it on an empty stomach, while other times it had been taken with enough food to buffer the reaction? The reaction is supposed to be beneficial, but it sure can be scary too, especially if you don’t know to expect it!
Thank you Chris, you are probably exactly right about niacin causing the flushing. I just looked up symptoms & includes flushing of joints. Even though it was only my face & outer elbows, maybe it was caused by my B complex with 100mg of niacin. I have taken it many times before, but……I discontinued it along with the others vits, and added it back in 3 days ago without further flushing.
When I originally researched thyroid + flushing, all I came up with is medullary thyroid cancer, but does not include joints. So thank you for mentioning this. I will talk it over with my doctor but in the meantime I am very much relieved that it was probably just the niacin!
One thought I had about the WP. One of the fillers is lactose. I am lactose intolerant and wonder if an inability to digest lactose might be the problem. I may try with some Lact-Aid to see if I can actually (feels like I am taking nothing) take this as an ERFA substitute.
Thanks for this blog post. I believe that I may have been taking a ‘bad batch’ too. Since March, I’ve gained 15 lbs with no change in my diet, am retaining a lot more water ( a nightmare during heat waves), wake up stiff and sore, and have been needing to sleep an extra hour or two a day.
So according to folks here. just to make sure I’ve got it straight…
I should ask the pharmacist if they have any of batch #LF03508A in stock? Is this the only batch that seems to work?
If the pharmacy has none of the ‘good batch’, perhaps I could try to up my dosage of ERFA? (I’m currently only on 1 grain (60 mg) which now I’m reading is perhaps too low of a dose to begin with?)
Since I live in Canada, is there a way to get my hands on the other brands of NDT? (besides from Colorado)?
Thanks for all of your information!! I’m glad at least that there’s a reason for my symptoms.
I discovered that in the UK we can report a medicine that appears not to work, to the MHRA. I went to their site but couldn’t find how to complain about a medication, so have written to them for further advice.
It may be worth all of us in the UK reporting current batches of ERFA as being ineffective.
Do understand that with the fact that NDT is an “unapproved drug”, and the fact that the UK medical system is clueless about NDT as a prime treatment, reporting about this may be the worst thing you can do.
Well, they simply replied that they only deal with drugs manufactured in the UK so wouldn’t be interested in ERFA anyway.
Sriram Kannan
I’m new to this site and i made a post already. Forget to ask few more questions.
since Erfa is now having issue. Should i try Armour ?. I take 50 mg Eltroxin and i wanted to try Natural harmone. Please advise if any existing issues with Armour as Erfa. I stay in Canada and i cannot get to order Armour through doctors. Please suggest if available local in canada.
Also please advise on switching to Armour and any current similar issues as Erfa. Thanks
Armour worked well for me initially Sriram but after they reformulated it, it didn’t work at all, hence I moved to ERFA. I rather suspect that you will read similar replies.
Would someone be able to suggest other best working natural thyroid. I see WP-Thyroid, S-Thyroid. What seems more acceptable with user experience. Since I’m in Canada pharmacy do not sell any other natural thyroid other than Erfa..Please provide some direction.
Sriram, I myself just discovered this web site a week ago, after trying to renew my Erfa Rx. Back when my doctor decided to try me on natural thyroid, I requested Erfa, because it was at a time after the Armour reformulation, and there were a lot of complaints about the new Armour not working as well as the old.
The following is for information only; it is not an endorsement; but there is a bovine thyroid product being sold in Colorado. I don’t understand how it can be sold OTC w/o a Rx; but in Colorado they already sell things not allowed for sale in other states (if you catch my drift). There is an FDA disclaimer posted on the page, however, drawing attention to it’s presence, could crack down on it’s availability. Hope that doesn’t happen, because I just may decide to try some. Can’t do too much worse than taking something that already isn’t working like it used to.
The distributor has a Wisconsin address. They also appear to be the manufacturer. Their bovine raw materials come from New Zealand.
I’m going to ask my local Health Food Store if it is something that they could offer.
I recently switched from eltroxin 50 mg to Erfa natural thyroid 60 mg. I feel really terrible with this tablet. its been two weeks on it. Wondering if i need to switch back to Eltroxin until the Erfa batch issue is resolved. I do not know the lot number but the expiry date is 10/2016
Does any one have good results with new batch with expiry after 10/2016.
My blood work were normal on eltroxin with few symptoms and i just wanted to try Erfa but its worst than Eltroxin
After started reading this forum…should i wait for new Erfa batch to try…local pharmacy does not have stock for 60 mg and 30 mg are available with expiry 10/2016. I was told that new batch will be ordered after Aug.
Please advise new batch that i should be looking for and if anyone feeling well
Sriram, I think any informed thyroid patient will tell you not to go back to Eltroxin alone, but instead, add T3 to your Eltroxin until the day comes that Erfa owns up to the problem and makes the correct change. Or you can explore other brands that other Canadians have gotten of NDT. Also remember that one grain is just a starting dose. You WILL feel worse on one grain if you hold onto it for too long. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Thanks for your reply. With consideration 60 mg of erfa is equivalent to 100 mg of t4 only or 74 mg of t4 only (t3 is four time equivalent to t4) many sites suggest it is 100 mg. Should u think that 60 mg is lower dose and i would have been in a feedback loop ?
I believe the return of the symptoms is purely due to current issue and not due to the dosage level. Please share your thoughts on it.
How and where do it get t3 only and how do i calculate the dosage levels. Please advise on it.
Hi I want to know what is this about armour? I take armour and wondering if there was something going on?? Sorry about it being over my head? Thanks so much
I’ve just had to order some more ERFA through my endo who supplies it through the hospital pharmacy. I rang the pharmacy and asked if I could have batch #LF03508A but they told me that they are not allowed to order a specific batch.
So it looks like I will have to order some Thryroid-S or put up with feeling like a zombie!
I’m trying to make a decision based on what I’ve read online Anne. It would appear that I can only get (without prescription) Thyroid-S or Thiroid, and I seen more reports of Thyroid-S working than Thiroid.
I’ve tried both Thiroyd and Thyroid-S recently. I’d say Thyroid-S is the better but in the last week I’ve felt awful and I’m not sure if it’s other things going on or the Thyroid-S. It’s also possible to buy other brands online, my endo will only give me a prescription for Armour, so I buy without prescription. I’m considering WP Thyroid, but if the Thyroid-S is ok then it’s very much cheaper and in the long run I have to think of the cost too. If you want to know the other places to buy the other brands let me know.
Before ‘something’ changed, we (on this blog) all appear to have been satisfied proponents of ERFA – Thyroid. Some participants had also been satisfied proponents of Armour, before it changed. Whatever those changes have been, they have done damage to what had been two fine products.
While searching for answers, I came across this disturbing paragraph on Wikipedia: (Frankly, the whole article is rather disturbing.)
“According to the National Pesticide Information Center fact sheet, Glyphosate is not included in compounds tested for by the Food and Drug Administration’s Pesticide Residue Monitoring Program, nor in the United States Department of Agriculture’s Pesticide Data Program. However a field test showed that lettuce, carrots, and barley contained glyphosate residues up to one year after the soil was treated with 3.71 pounds of glyphosate per acre (4.15 kg per hectare).”
The ERFA/Armour problems maybe caused by something entirely different from any herbicide; but how can we ever find out, if they don’t even look for residues?
Anne’s question above (why this problematic batch is still circulating in Belgium?) made me wonder if NDT simply stays longer on the pharmacy shelves in Europe, for the simple reason that there are fewer patients on it than in the US and Canada…?
When I was first put on NDT, in late 2011, I got Armour, and I did great on it for the first six months (15, 30, 60, 90, and 120 mg pills). I could simply not understand what everyone was talking about. Then I refilled my prescription in July 2012, and crashed within a week. I thought the reason was I had been given 240 mg pills (I figured they contain more cellulose than the smaller pills), so I asked for 120 mg pills instead, only to discover that they were not at all effective (compared to the 120 mg pills I had previously taken).
I have asked many times if it is at all possible that I got the old Armour the first time around, and the answer has always been “no, it’s impossible, the old formula would be long gone from the pharmacy shelves by late 2011”. Yes, in the US and Canada, but what about Europe?! What if the bottles I got had been there since before the 2009 reformulation? They all expired in November or December 2012, so that must mean that old Armour would be good for more than three and a half years after the reformulation…
I cannot explain it, but I remember feeling better than I had in years on the first bottles of Armour. In the first few weeks on it, I lost almost 5 kilograms (10 pounds) of excess fluid and, after a couple of months on it, people started saying to me that I looked better, that my skin looked brighter, and that I seemed to have lost weight and have more energy and stamina…which was true. I have never felt that good again, not even on Erfa, even though it was an acceptable alternative when Armour stopped working.
I am in the UK but buy privately with the knowledge of my endocrinologist so get mine from the US – sort of – so it’s possible that I got one of the first jars of that batch. I think that UK pharmacies buy in almost as needed. But in Europe, especially Belgium as you have a very knowledgeable doctor in Brussels, I would imagine that they keep stock in, so buy every now and then. In which case it could sit on the shelves for a while. Also I don’t think so many people get the 125mg tablets so they’d hang around for longer. I suppose the expiry dates are long lasting so it shouldn’t matter, but it could also explain why Dr Knafo says so few people have complained.
Interesting. I remember reading a statement by Henri Knafo some time ago, where he made it clear that Erfa has an obligation to report all formula changes to Health Canada. Since that does not seem to be the case, I can only conclude that whatever changed to make the pills less effective is not the result of a reformulation.
It is possible that new suppliers of raw material means that the pigs from which the thyroid glands are harvested have been fed something that affects us in a negative way. Or the production methods have changed. It’s obvious that something has changed but, judging from all the messages from the Medical director to patients that I have found online, Erfa is clueless about this…
Suggestion: Everyone who has jumped ship from ERFA out of total necessity, should make a post saying so. Then Dr. Knafo can read these one after another
for evidence.
We are NOT stupid! We KNOW our bodies like no one else, and no one else EVER will! We are informed & resourceful, and we KNOW our medications (with some of us having been on Armour or ERFA, and others for
YEARS)! It is NOT in our heads, it is in
our cells… systemically throughout our bodiesand we know what works and what doesn’t – period!
I for one… am OFF ERFA until this whole thing gets totally resolved, and
ERFA regains it’s efficacy! THAT’S IT!
This thought occurred to me… With so many observed changes in the way Erfa works (or doesn’t); might the responsibility of those changes rest with suppliers of raw materials to Erfa, rather than with Erfa themselves having knowingly made any changes?
My reasons for choosing Erfa in the first place were: (assuming that under EU guidelines that “Belgian” porkers were:)
1. Less likely to have been “factory farmed”
2. Less likely to have been fed antibiotics
3. Less likely to have been fed any GMO feed
4. Less likely to have been given any fluoride in their water source
In recent months, maybe those pigs on which we have come to rely, have been raised somewhere other than Belgium; and were actually subjected to one or more of the above four reasons why I chose Erfa; as well as some as yet unimagined causes. And maybe problems discovered with the product were behind the move of manufacturing from Belgium to Spain.
A few years back, the substance melamine was found to have tainted numerous brands of pet foods. Did all of those brands knowingly incorporate melamine in their product in order to have it ‘test’ with a higher protein content than it actually deserved? Or were they victims of their own suppliers of raw materials? The reason why so many dogs and cats died, escaped discovery for quite some time. When the cause was finally realized, and deliberately looked for, melamine turned up in a surprising number of places. Might Erfa be dealing with a similar situation?
Erfa has consistently denied making any deliberate changes to Thyroid (cf Armour Pharmaceuticals and RLC Labs that never denied reformulating Armour and Nature-Throid, even if their reasons for doing so are not very clear to me), so your theories actually do make a lot of sense.
Are you in Europe? I’m asking because it’s not often anyone outside the EU refers to EU guidelines:-)
According to this interview, Erfa gets its raw material from North America, and then the pills themselves used to be manufactured in Belgium (then manufacturing was moved to Spain last year, it seems?!) I guess this means that the raw material (porcine thyroid) was (and still is) harvested in North America, then shipped to Europe (Belgium), where it was processed and manufactured, and this continues to be the case, only the raw material is now shipped to Spain instead of Belgium…?
Thank you Catarina for posting that article; although sadly, I am disillusioned. The principal reasons for which I chose Erfa have been dashed. Like it or not, it appears that we have probably been taking thyroid that includes all those points I was trying to avoid: “Factory Farmed”, antibiotic laced, GMO fed, and possibly fluoride watered animals. As long as Erfa buys their raw materials elsewhere, I would much rather see them get their NDT from a country famous for their ham production, Denmark.
Chris thank you, I’ve been scanning comments for information on wether or not the thyroid comes from pigs that have been fed GMO feed? I avoid gmo every chance I get and try to eat mostly organic, so I’m very concerned about the source. Most of us know that GMO’s are toxic, and I just read today about piglets born with deformities who mothers were fed gmo soy feed and had very high concentrations of Glyfosate (that’s in Roundup, Monsanto owned). I would hate to imagine that for the last 10 years I’ve been ingesting poison through a medicine that I need to keep me alive. I took Armour which worked great before they screwed it up and have been taking Erfa since then. I am having issues, but not sure if it’s the Erfa not working right, my own hormones or if my ferritin levels are off. Getting more blood work tomorrow so hopefully I’ll know a little more in a few weeks.
Colette, while reading your reply, this thought hit me… Isn’t the EU supposed to ban GMOs? They even refer to them as “Franken Food”. (Franken… as in Frankenstein, not Al Franken!) We ought to have Nation wide labeling laws to keep such products out of their commerce, even if we can’t seem to keep them out of ours.
Something else I have heard, is that Roundup is even used on non “Roundup Ready” crops, such as wheat, to deliberately kill the mature plants, and speed up the grain’s drying time in the field, prior to storage. Might there be binders gleaned from such cellulose?
Chris I think that the problem is outside ERFA’s control or sphere too. Any one of your suggestions could be correct and, reading about how they source the pigs’ thyroid, I also think that there’s plenty of opportunity for the raw material to be damaged somehow in transit. This would all explain why Dr Knafo is taking it seriously (because I think he is taking it seriously) but not coming up with anything. I do think it would be helpful to know what Waveylines’ GP and pharmacist have discovered (post above), but probably there’s a good reason why she hasn’t told us.
Also, the 100 ct bottles I got in June do not look like anything I’ve seen before; it’s a white bottle with a transparent label (blue print), and you don’t screw the lid to open the bottle…it does not seem possible to upload photos here but, like I said, it does not look anything like the previous bottles. Also, on this new bottle, the address of the manufacturer is not mentioned anywhere; all the label says is: “THYROID ERFA 125 mg 100co Lot: 13C06 Exp: 03/16”. In other words, no prescribing or dosage information, no DIN number (to the left on the other labels), no code to scan…it does not even have the Erfa logo.
I wonder if your pharmacy dispensed the tablets from either a different batch or a larger batch. Are you able to ask them? I also think it would be an idea of you could photograph both jars, some of the tablets to show how different they all look, and send the photo to Dr Knafo. I doubt he’d be pleased to know that batches have been mixed up if that’s the case, and if not then it’s definitely something he needs to know about.
I believe the old manufacturing plant was run by Parke-Davies, I wonder who runs the new one. Does anyone know?
Thanks for this input! To my dismay, I saw that two 100 ct bottles (125 mg pills) that I got in Belgium on June 30th belong to the same batch…so yes, they were still in circulation in Belgium a month ago…hopefully, the problems only concerned this particular batch!
I looked again and, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the pills are two different colors (grayish and more yellow)…
I will contact Erfa again, now that they are aware of the problem, and stress that my pills belong to the same batch (when I contacted H Knafo, I had no idea about this).
I got a 500 ct bottle of 125 mg Erfa pills (batch 13C06), exp 03/16) a few months ago (from a pharmacy in Belgium), and only read this today. Since starting on this bottle, I have had to raise my dose from 6 to 8 grains daily; yet, my most recent labs showed barely mid-range FT4 levels, and FT3 levels were not at the top of the range where they used to be. I emailed Dr. Knafo about this, and his reply was: “8 grains is an awfully high dose. Have you had your TSH checked?”
I had a closer look at the pills, and it seems me to me that some are brighter than others…some seem more yellow. Could new and old formula be mixed in one bottle…?
Anyway, I have seriously considered switching to another brand these past few weeks, since it has been very difficult to make Erfa work properly…at least this bottle. I don’t know if other batches are any better?
Catarina that is the batch that several of us have had problems with, including Waveylines above whose doctor and pharmacist have apparently investigated and found a problem with them.
Mine were bought last November (so why are they still in circulation in Belgium?) and they gave me immediate stomach upsets. I only took them for three days before complaining to Dr Knafo. He alleged that I must have become intolerant of ERFA Thyroid but I pointed out that I am fine with an older batch. He also said they were from the old manufacturer in Belgium and not the new one in Spain and that n-one else had complained about that batch, but I know of four others who have done and they live far apart – from Canada to Finland. Mine look exactly the same as before but don’t have such a strong smell as before. I think you are the first person to say that that batch looks different, so I too wonder if they are being mixed up.
Please continue to complain about this to Dr Knafo, we have to find out what has happened so that we can hopefully one day regain our trust in ERFA. I have switched to a different brand but it is too soon to say whether they are going to be ok or not.
Caterina , I get my erfa from a pharmacy in Belgium and took lot 13co6 expiry 3/16 125mg -underwent slow decline. Now on new batch lot LFO3728A and not convinced they are any better but only taken for 2 weeks. Did you swap to a different NDT?
Just picked up my prescription from Costco ( armour 60 mg 120 pills) and was shocked to find the price has doubled from $20 to $40. So I need to find a better price. Any ideas? Also, what is the WP some of you are referring to? I checked my book and couldn’t find any reference.
Is this what has been happening to me??? I had a two bottles from my pharmacy of Erfa (picked them up earlier this year) and about two months ago one morning, i opened the bottle that was finishing and it smelled strongly of rotten fish. I’ve been taking Erfa for 3/4 years now and I had never had my pills smell that badly. I thought weird and the pills went bad. So I opened the new bottle and it had the same strong smell. Because it had never happened before, I took it back to my pharmacist and insisted on getting replacements for it. She kept telling me that it was normal and I told her, that I’ve been taking this for years and I never had this before and because she and I didn’t know why it smelled so rotten, i wasn’t going to mess around my thyroid and continue to take them. She didn’t want to replace them and kept saying I mustve left them out in the heat or something. I just continued arguing with her and she finally replaced them and said she would send them to the lab and they would contact me. I really just thought it was one bad batch. When someone at the lab contacted me they wanted to know if i had left the pills in heat or something. I said no, in my cabinet as always. I wish I’d paid more attention to whom I was talking to but i just dismissed it all as one bad batch.
Now I’m half way through the replacement bottle and I opened it this morning and the smell is back. So i started to google and saw this posting. I realize my depression has been hitting me more than usual and my hair is falling out even more in the shower. is this just me being paranoid or could it have something to do with the pills? I’m going to call my pharmacy tomorrow morning again and get the info for the lab. Is it safe to take this pills despite the smell? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Sara, actually, the smell is common for many NDT products. That wasn’t the problem. The problem is that the 2014 Erfa has not been working well for folks, smell or not.
A little update, I have now been on WP thyroid for nearly a month and feel so much better -finally I have energy – feel like I am getting my life back. I have finally been able to resume my normal hot summer dose of 3 !/2 grains per day. if I had another condition inhibiting or causing my symptoms then I would not be improving on WP Thyroid surely.
How on earth can Erfa say there is not a problem with their Thyroid I really don’t know.
Over in the UK my GP and pharmacist have done their own investigations and found out there is problem -the word is out Dr Knafo -you do need to get this sorted. I am going to see my Endocrinologist today and will be discussing what has happened. over the 6 months of decline ( having done well on Erfa for three years before) I have put on 3 stone in weight!!! This is in part because I have not been able to do any form of sustained activity but 3 stone? I do not buy the argument that I have been given by Dr Knafo that I have developed resistance to Erfa Thyroid but will discuss this with the Endocrinoligist I am seeing today.
I am incredibly grateful to this site -thank you so much Janie -without or the comments on here and elsewhere I may not have twigged for a while longer -the last time I felt so poorly with all the symptoms that i have had ( now all going again :)) is before I was diagnosed!!! never not even on levothyroxine have I felt so ill on thyroid treatment -and believe me that is saying something! Yes my anger is still there. For a start I now have 3 stone to shift!!! I am grateful that my employer has been so understanding as I have not been able to work for 5 weeks. Now feeling like I could resume and sustain work soon -what a relief.
Thank you thank you thank you to you all on here………
“Over in the UK my GP and pharmacist have done their own investigations and found out there is problem”
Waveylines that sentence is intriguing, are you able to elaborate and tell us what they found out? Or if not are they taking it any further? I’m taking Thyroid-S at the moment but am not keen on all the fillers so it’s good to know you’re getting on well with WP Thyroid.
So Sorry Dianne & Tammy for my late reply -been away 🙂 My Gp said he had done his own investigations and had found out that there is a problem with Erfa Thyroid -he said they have changed countries and they have changed the pressers for their tablets. i said could a different presser reduce the efficacy of the tablet -he said yes. Both he and my pharmacist are of the opinion that Erfa has changed -he was really different with me -very compassionate as he totally got why i wanted to change brands. However in the Uk getting a NDT on the NHS is no easy thing so had to go to a private enlightened Endocrinologist to get the ok for brand change… -Of course as i sad I had changed brands in any case -can’t carry on feeling so ill if I can avoid it.
The Endocrinologist was not impressed with Erfa Thyroid -not because it is a NDT -but she said she had many patients complaining of it’s lack of efficacy for them so her opinion was that it is right to switch brands -though she wasn’t happy that I had done it without medical supervision.
Thanks for getting back to us Waveylines. My endocrinologist wasn’t at all amused to hear about the changes to ERFA either, but he only offered me Armour, and said that would have to be on a private prescription, so I’m trying out Thyroid-S at the moment and thinking of getting some WP Thyroid as most people seem to get on with that. If only the NHS would even believe I need thyroid hormones… but they don’t!
Actually Waveylines there is something else – I bought batch 13C06 expiry 03/2016, which I think you also have, in November 2013, so a month before the production changed to Spain, therefore the new pressing machines etc can’t have had any effect on them, something else is wrong with them.
” never not even on levothyroxine have I felt so ill on thyroid treatment -and believe me that is saying something! ”
That’s exactly how I feel now waveylines. I’ve not been quite this bad for so long a period. It’s as though it is actually doing harm rather than just not working. Or perhaps once we get used to thyroid medication that works, we become more dependent on it, and feel worse when it is taken away!
Nick, every human being is dependent on their thyroid hormones. i.e. dependency has nothing to do with “getting used to thyroid medication”. It’s a biological dependency.
Waveylines,
I am so happy to hear you are doing well on an alternate thyroid treatment, it is bitter sweet, sad that you have had to endure this and loose your employment income for 5 weeks. Reading this on a day that seems not as good for me gives me hope that the comings and goings of energy, depression, etc can be remedied with a change to another source. Please keep us posted on your feedback from your appointments and I too would love to know what the findings are by your GP and your pharmacist.
Thank you for your feedback!
Thanks for the update Angie. I have enough of the old Erfa to last until Feb-Mar next year. I hope they get this issue with Erfa resolved. I don’t want to switch brands again. I have been doing good on Erfa since I started taking it back during the Armour reformulation. I will keep checking here for updates. Hope when I order some later this year they will work for me. I don’t understand why these companies make changes to medications that are working for people. Can you still take this new formulation sublingually? That’s how I take the Erfa I have been using & that’s how I used Armour until they reformulated it. Thanks.
I’ve been taking the ‘new’ ERFA sublingually Tammy. I didn’t try that with the older ‘working’ ERFA so can’t say what the difference is to swallowing it..
I am now on my 3rd day of 30 mg batch LF03508A. It seems to be, if a little on the weak side, more like what I am used to from ERFA. At least as yet, no profound fatigue or other sickness that I had on my early 2014 batches. Will continue to keep you all updated.
I did hear back, interestingly enough, from Dr. Knafo. He stated that he had had problems getting emails to me (a couple had bounced back) and that he was checking in to see how I was doing. He also stated that results of ERFA’s investigation would be made available to any that would sign a disclaimer. Here is my response to Dr. Knafo. I once again want to say that he has always been very helpful in the past. Willing to answer questions and genuinely concerned that his product be safe and effective for the customers buying it. He may be simply overwhelmed with the number of complaints and/or have his hands tied by his superiors.
Dear Dr. Knafo:
I am not sure why you had problems getting emails to me directly, but I can report that no one else has indicated to me that they have had a problem. Could this perhaps be a an issue at your end?
Since you have sent me two emails (and I have sent subsequent emails to mine below which have gone unanswered), I will answer both.
Yes. I did have bloodwork done. My FT4 and FT3 levels were a little on the high side with the “new” ERFA. However, I was not well on this medicine as I have reported many times. Gastro-intestinal issues, profound fatigue with a heavy chest feeling, brain-fog and a drop in mood. The fatigue and heavy chest feeling were serious enough for me to have visited my primary care physician twice. I have read, from others experiencing problems, that you have attributed the problems that many of us have had on the new medication to a sudden inability to tolerate ERFA. This is very disappointing to me. As I believe I conveyed to you, I did have a small amount of older, 60 mg tabs that I did not experience the same problems on. I went back and forth 2-3 times between the old and new formulas and did not have the same problems on the old. I did experience, on the older formula, a “drop” in effectiveness. However, as I usually have to increase my meds by about 1/4 grain in the colder months of the year, I assumed that it was not the med, but the seasonal change that was the problem. So…this was not a sudden inability to “tolerate” ERFA. If folks had problems on the older batches, I can not really speak to that. My issues started with the prescription refills that I obtained from The Canadian Pharmacy in early 2014.
Since I have spoken with you, I have once again attempted to try ERFA (batch LF03508A) expiry 2/2017. Since I have only been on it a couple of days, I can not really give any meaningful report, but early indications seem to be that this batch may be a little more what I am used to from ERFA. I am happy to keep you posted, if you would like.
I want to once again speak to the fact that I was once ERFA’s biggest fan. This dessicated thyroid worked for me like none other and helped me return to wellness in late 2009. Since that time, I have taken ERFA with few problems until early 2014. I have noticed that it seems to be sensitive to temps and can expire early if I do not store it in a cool place in the warmer months of the year. I am disappointed that ERFA seems to be attributing 170 or so patient complaints to patient problems and apparently not investigating this thoroughly or if you have, communicating the specifics of that investigation. I have always looked to the Canadian Healthcare System and Canadian companies in general as good examples for our American system and company to follow. I sincerely hope I can continue to do so.
I am very much interested in viewing the results (please let me know whom/where to direct my inquires) of your investigation of the problem. I am also happy to sign a disclaimer as long as it is not a “gag” of sorts if I see problems that might affect my health or the health of other people. I am not interested in a lawsuit, I am interested in wellness as I have every right and responsibility to be. I await your response!
I like your letter Angie and it’s good to know that the latest batch you have may be ok. I too got an email from Dr Knafo this week asking for an update and if I had seen my GP. I was able to tell him much the same as you, that an older batch was working fine, so it’s not a sudden allergy to ERFA. Unfortunately my endocrinologist offered me a prescription for Armour only and I know I don’t get on with that any more, so I’m now on Thyroid-S, but would far prefer to get some decent ERFA. I have also found him to be helpful in the past and am glad that he’s contacting us again, it shows that he is concerned and does want to know if our blood tests show anything out of the ordinary, or if there is some rational explanation that applies to some of us. If it’s a question of incorrect storage of either the ingredients or the tablets somewhere, or a machine going haywire or not having being programmed correctly, he probably really doesn’t know and is as mystified as we are. I don’t think ERFA has been reformulated, the experiences different people are having don’t point to that, but I hope whatever has happened is discovered soon and we can get back to normal, meanwhile I hope you find your latest batch is good and we can all get some!
All..after a few weeks on the batch # indicated, I am sorry to report that it is also causing me problems. While a day or so are okay, eventually I feel weak and shaky and have no ability to handle stress. Now before any jump in to talk to me about adrenals, I don’t think this is the issue as when I switch back to Nature-throid, I do not have this problem. I plan on reporting once more to Dr. Knafo. I have had no response to my above email at all. Including no response to my request for the investigation of the new product.
Angie, I too have switched from Erfa to WP and am not doing well. My doc ordered labs to see why I am not absorbing this stuff and wants me back on 60mg of Erfa 3x a day. I am hoping for a good batch. What’s my chances? Looking forward to your update.
Hi !
I’m a patient and I have been treated with Erfa since November 2013. I was finally seeing results until I started a new bottle in late June… I have lost all appetite, my digestion is a mess, I can’t sleep, my head hurts like hell…
Unfortunately, my pharmacist doesn’t have any good batch for now, and doesn’t want me to return what I’ve bought, but I’m a student and I don’t have a lot of money, so it’s difficult for me to change meds like that (and I’m in Europe so I don’t have a lot of other options).
Do you think increasing the dosage with the batch I’m on could help ? If it’s a problem of coating causing a bad absorption, it could work right ?
I checked my iron and cortisol levels, iron is still a little low but better and increasing, and I was feeling quite fine before even with this level so I’m sure it can’t be it.
Please help me, I’m traveling for three weeks starting Monday and I’m desperate.
Cathy
Increasing the dosage might help if, for whatever reason, the new pills absorb less well. Add half a grain and see how you feel. If it helps, you should feel the difference quickly. If you feel better, but not optimal, you can keep raising it until it relieves your symptoms. This could help if impaired absorption is the only reason you feel worse.
Thanks for the feedback y’all. Whether it takes a year or not, I think it’s going to take some time still… there are too many batches out there that have been mentioned as falling short; batches of
30 mg, 60 mg, and 125 mg.
To me, it WON’T be cleared up until
no negative reports come in – period! Otherwise, it’s Russian Roulette, & good
medication & health CAN’T be a game of rolling the dice! Hang in there! I HOPE ERFA comes back, but only time will tell.
I have ordered a new batch with an expiration date of 2017. I will let you all know how I do. I am not doing that well on the WP. Do reasonably well on Nature-throid, but the fillers aggravate my diverticulitis and had an acute episode just a little over a week ago and had to switch back to the WP. I don’t seem to absorb the WP all that well. I am hoping that my new batch of ERFA is an improvement over the two batches I received early in 2014. If they are not, then I will report my concerns to Health Canada. My objective is not to sue anybody, but quite simply, wellness. I have pointed many thyroid users to ERFA as it used to be a superior product. Obviously I can not continue to do so if it performs poorly.
Hey Janie: I’ve been a thyroid pt since 1996 and am aware of the iron and cortisol issues (also watch my RT3 and total T3 closely). Since I feel fine on the [older] Nature-throid at an equivalent dose (I chew it and take with a little juice) to the WP, don’t think “not enough” is the issue, but it certainly feels like not enough. Don’t know why I don’t do very well on the WP (West-throid)..should do fine, but I don’t. My more recent batch of N-T doesn’t feel like enough either..are we starting to see an issue overall with all dessicated? With the ERFA, my labs on the newer batches were all good, but didn’t feel well. Would switch back to the older N-T or the older ERFA that I had left and feel fine. Almost feels like perhaps one of the “trace amount” ingredients are missing OR there is a contamination issue. Again, will be trying a later expiry date batch of ERFA (should be here today or tomorrow) and will keep y’all posted..
Hi Angie. No, there are no problems with NDT overall. Just Erfa. That’s why I’m wondering if something has changed in you, like iron or cortisol. But I hope you figure it out soon!
Thanks, Janie..let’s keep our eyes and ears open. My later N-T (have never done well on WP) is on the weak side also. My “new” ERFA (expir date 2017) just came in the mail. We shall see!!!
Nick
It’s bad enough to be hypo, worse to find that we don’t respond to thyroxine, and then worse still, many of us seem to only do well on certain types of NDT, which (worse still) appear to change in quality from time to time. I’m never sure if I am more fatigued from being hypo, or for trying to manage it.
Keep the updates coming!
For now, I returned my ERFA (unopened), am taking Armour temporarily for now (which I had),
but am planning to go to a private
physician to get a Rx for either
Acella NP, Westhroid WP, or BOTH!
ERFA must remain on hold until ALL
of this is resolved, which unfortunately,
I think is going to take close to a year – if at all? IF the latter, then ERFA has ruined their stellar history! Another good
horse down – what a shame!
This is beyond pathetic & a travesty what
we with hypothyroidism must endure &
navigate! A TOTAL SHAM!!!
I’m not sure if it will take a year Trish. If the LF03508 batch IS OK then we are good to go again. The only problem being how much of the ‘bad stuff’ is floating around pharmacies that they will expect us to use up first.
If ERFA users won’t accept the ‘bad stuff’ and find an alternative product, sales of ERFA will simply stagnate. I would have thought it good business sense for ERFA to pull all the ‘bad stuff’ sooner rather than later.
Just a thought; imagine if this had happened with all levothyroxine!
Delann,
You have a good suggestion that we go above Dr. Knafo and perhaps with Janie’s help we should move forward.
Janie, any suggestions? What about the newspapers here in Canada, or the companies shareholders? I’m sure they would like to know about the reason that their sales will decline.
Janie I’m curious, how did things turn out with respect to Armour in the end?
Dr Knafo,
If you are reading this, here is my reality.
Today I will drive 1 1/2 hours to see my brother who last past February broke his tibia in three places, developed compartment syndrome. He is a one man show marina operator, a mechanic and a volunteer fire captain along with running snow plow contracts in winter (plowing himself) and shovelling where necessary, snow. He has not walked since then except for a little on crutches as necessity and recently endured another operation to close up the wound but has to bed rest for two weeks to prevent the stitches from breaking the wound open.
He has very little help, cannot afford to have help and I planned to go see him to do whatever he needs to help but in my current state of low energy I don’t see myself of being of much help. I pray it changes that, that something changes with my energy today because all I want to do is help my brother, help my family.
You have robbed me of that.
I wonder, do you sleep well at night?
Hi all,
I have started a new batch of pills 3 days ago, Lot LF03506A expiry Feb 2017 and won’t jump the gun but the following has happened, joint pain, fatigue and now stomach distress/issues. I fell asleep on the sofa last night which I never do and didn’t even make it for my regular walk as I usually do.
I will keep you posted.
This is all very very interesting. I have been on efra for years and have been doing very well UNTIL january of 2014. Since january my benign irregular heartbeat has gone out of control. Had all sorts of test and all came back negative. My cardiologist was willing to put me on a calcium beta blocker if I wanted to give it a try. I’m not a pill person so did not want to start taking this unless it was necessary. So, up until a week ago, I have been suffering with the irregualrity… it was getting worse every month. Since january I had taken cardiac PX that worked before however this time it was doing little to correct the irregularity. I began to test all supplements I was taking as well as any foods. Nothing worked. As a last resort and with the support of my naturalpath, I started reducing my efra and did begin to get some releief. I then had my thyroid test done and all was out of wack (because i had reduced it by a third ie took 60 instead of 90). My family doc convinced me to stop reducing and to go back to the 90. The irregularity came back as bad as ever. After finding your site I convinced my doc to switch me to USPP thyroid done up by a local pharmacy. I’ve been on this for just about a week and boy what a difference. It was almost instant. My heart is almost normal. I’m putting this out there because I know how concerned you can get when your metabolism is out of wack and your life gets out of sorts. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this or has found improvements by switching to a new brand? I’m on the USPP formula for the next month. I’ll let you know how things go, if anyone is interested. I’m thinking if after a month my irregularity is resolved that I will send an email to erfa to let them know and perhaps advise Health Canada. If this is an efra issue I wonder if legal action is required to get them to take action and/or to avoid others having to go through this? Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences and your expertice. Looking forward to future updates.
I’ve noticed a similar irregularity since about February this year (along with other symptoms of hypothyroidism). It’s something I had until I went on NDT about 7 years ago. I would like to see legal action against ERFA but I suspect that it would be a very long case, and difficult to actually prove anything.
Like Sarah, I am desperately awaiting developments on this issue. If I can’t get an alternative NDT through my NHS endo, I think that I will have to order some Thyroid or Thiroid-S from Thailand. We do need more reports about the batch LF03508 Exp. Feb 17 to see if the problem with ERFA has been resolved. I would prefer to stick with ERFA because it can be taken sublingually.
Hi all,
I will be out of my current batch of 30 mg pills in 5 days that I have been feeling well on and the next batch that I will be picking up from pharmacy is
Lot LF03506A expiry Feb 2017.
Is anyone on this batch and feeling ok on it?
Hi Cynthia,
You are right, I did call and they said the same thing. Then I called another pharmacy I use for my testosterone, The Medicine Shoppe in Oshawa and I was going to see how I do on this batch before I let you know. She has lots of it though, said something like 3 bottles of 500 of the 30 mg.
Hi Cynthia,
I have come to the conclusion that this batch is not as good, I have been having issues on and off of various hypo symptoms. I had my bloodwork done last week and will see in a couple of weeks but I don’t need bloodwork to tell me something is not right with this batch.
Nick
Sandra, I have a batch of LF3507A, expiry 02/17 that are not working. So I would be wary of LF3506A. LF3508A is the batch that has been reported as working OK..
Pharmarama in the UK have LF3508A in stock but will not sell it until all their stocks of LF3507A are gone. After all profits are far more important than people’s health. 😉
I guess we need a way of all UK ERFA users coming together to make some sort of legal challenge.
Thanks Nick, I guess I have to take a chance and see, I won’t get much filled this time, just a pain as it is a 45 minute drive to get there to go back if it works and I need more.
My other option is to call everywhere and find my current batch.
So you are saying that they deny a person who request a certain batch/lot!!!!!? That is just down right ridiculous. Since there is really nothing wrong and 10,000 patients on “Thyroid” and just 75 of us sick then what is the problem since it may only be a few who want a certain batch!
I would not settle for that, call who ever you have to to get the right batch.
I emailed Dr Knafo again to ask him why i had become so ill on Erfa after three years of feeling good on it. He emailed very promptly back and said the following:-
” In deed I did not receive your last emails. Therefore I am sorry for the late reply. I am happy to hear that you are feeling better in WP Thyroid. The investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication, however, I am still monitoring patients and complaints.
From my experience there is a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality. ”
Anyone heard of developing problems with a specific NDT when well established on it -when vitamins and minerals are good, adrenals too? I can’t find anything on this -have looked. And why would I improve by switching brands – on WP Thyroid -although I am still crashing if I do physical activity for any length of time -but then I haven’t been well for months and only been on WP for 10days….!!.
Am confused -any thoughts anyone?
Thank you again for the follow up and I wish you a good health.
“From my experience there is a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality.”
Argh. All I can is, when I took the tablets from the two bad batches I tried (and felt like I was dying), and then took tablets from the old stock that I was able to find, I felt immediately better (back to the ‘norm’ for me) on the old stock. So, that ‘explanation’ from Dr. Knafo is not valid.
Angie
I agree with Dianne..and where is Janie? This is a ridiculous explanation from Dr. Knafo and lessens him in my opinion. Like Dianne, I went back and forth from the OLD ERFA to the NEW ERFA and experienced problems on the batches obtained in early 2014. It is not a sudden inability on my part to take ERFA, if that were so I could not have taken the older meds. It is a DIFFERENCE in the medication itself. I have sent several emails now to Dr. Knafo that have not been responded. to. Coupled with the above and the openness to show the results of the investigation and testing only if one traveled to Toronto makes me entirely suspicious. I have a batch that will expire in 2017..will check lot #”s, etc. If this is also a bad batch, I will report both them and The Canadian Pharmacy to Health Canada and my doc here in the USA.
Delann
Waveylines, my thoughts on that email are the following:
To Quote Dr. Knafo that: “The investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication; however, I am still monitoring patients and complaints. From my experience there are a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality. ” …
If, “the investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication…..then what is wrong with a POST of the essay showing it for all of us to see? Also, I for one would like to see posted documents and evidence from research and case studies that show that his “reality” statement is true! Not just his “say so”. I would like to know what patients he is monitoring and from where, his office? Or, from a blog site such as this one with people he has never met personally, did any personal testing on, or interviewed face to face in an office with questions and answers as to their symptoms, because I am NOT HIS patient! (However, I “was a customer”). Or, as the medical director of a pharmaceutical company is he implying that he has a personal practice also with Hypothyroid patients of whom he is seeing and they TOO are having difficulties on any brand of NDT? What evidence is he backing that statement of “this is a reality” with? He states (from HIS experience) “that there are a few people who do not tolerate the NDT after years of treatment and that is a Reality”? What experience, please. I ask you all reading this, what “few patients” would tolerate a med for “YEARS of treatment” that wasn’t working!!! That is contrary to all reason or common sense!
I say he should start producing a whole bundle of research studies, and documentations to back up some of the statements he has been making since the up rise of complaints with these non working batches of thyroid meds and quit shooting out statements like that and own up to the facts that this med is messed up and responsibility lies at his and the companies door!
In his earlier response to Janie above on this page he says “that each person complaining should be handled on an individual basis with their doctors to consider “other variables” Well guess what I HAVE considered other variables and since there are no other variables in my personal life that have changed, the variables I am considering (that I am aware of) are: 1. the change in Erfa manufacture plant and 2. New pressing machines, 3. A possible cover up in the Erfa Company that they are not admitting to from spotty mismanaged quality control and oversight with in that company with those changes.
He doesn’t fool me with his glossed over double talking, no proof explanations, said, no doubt, from the perspective of, “protect my job” point of view. We all here on this blog site, as well as people on other sites, know that something went wrong with the making of this thyroid medication since the move of their company and the beginning of 2014 PERIOD! Maybe we should all be directing or concerns to the C.E.O, or president of this Erfa Company instead of Dr. Knafo?
A through and independent investigation should be started immediately as to prevent harm to many that may still be ingesting these pills because they have no choice and holding on to maybe, just maybe the pills have enough of an element of t3/t4 in them that is working just enough to keep them half way functioning, while suffering weakening, symptoms that could be related to contamination, change in additives or filler, tablet coatings or low quality pig thyroid powder, or who knows what! It is truly frustrating me that they are not investigating this matter seriously.
We all have a right to quality of life and not to settle for such condescending remarks comments, and statements that are coming from the medical “director” Dr. Knafo as facts that are unproven, and short on truth of what is really going on within that company! Fact is, they had a product that served us all well for years until the beginning of 2014. You simply do not tell this many hypothyroid people that are complaining that “nothing is wrong” on Erfa’s end of things! We all know that it worked very well at one time, and now it is not and that, Dr. Knafo, is REALITY!
I get my ERFA through the NHS, and fortunately don’t have to pay for it. But that means getting it prescribed by my endo, who then sends the prescription to the hospital pharmacy, who in turn order it from this company called Pharmarama.
So I don’t actually get to talk to either the hospital pharmacy or the supplier. As such the ERFA supplies come in order of the batch date and number, and the hospital pharmacy has to accept them unless there is official recognition that something is wrong with a batch. So while ERFA continue to deny that there is any problem, patients in my position have to accept what they give us.
I just called Total Health Pharmacy in Newmarket, the one on Davis Dr. and they are back ordered for ERFA. If I recall earlier comments said someone got a batch with 2017 expiry date and was doing well. And now they can’t get any, whats going on? Did ERFA realize they had bad batches (without admitting it of course) and now have adjustments to make? Why the shortage, I thought the whole reason of moving production to Spain was to keep up with demand.
I just wanted to thank you Anne, Waveylines, and you all for your helpful responses. I have decided to forgo on ERFA at this juncture as it is simply too risky at this time… unless AND UNTIL this whole thing gets resolved, even IF it takes a year!
It’s just too risky in terms of health &
money right now – period! I am going
to likely go with the new Westhroid-P,
and we’ll see about Acella (not as readily
accessible or available)!
This indeed is yet another BIG setback for us ALL, & quite frankly, I wish those
responsible for all this, could just get a TASTE of the outright havoc that we go through on a daily basis affecting our
baseline functioning, productivity & livelihood because of these endless, pathetic hoops we have to jump through
from corporate foul play, lack of
integrity, or regard for humanity! It’s disgraceful.
I would like to suggest that all of us who
have lost faith in ERFA, and/or jumped ship for now… write Dr. Knafo directly to inform him!
Ultimately & certainly over time, ERFA
will see a drop in sales, so their stellar
history is about to take an undeniable hit!
Meanwhile, I think you Canadians should unite for more options!!!
Also, I would love to hear from anyone out there on Acella… WHERE do you
reside and WHERE (from what pharmacies are you obtaining your Acella?? I reside in California, & I know of someone in VA, and IT does NOT seem readily or easily available. So your input could help shed some light for us all.
Delann,
Well spoken!!!! This should not be the end of it as you say. To those of us in Canada, our options to change to another source are limited so it would be a blessing if things were to go back to what they were.
Does anyone know why Erfa is the only dessicated thyroid available to us north of the border?
I agree, very well said, Delann. Why do I feel like our heartfelt pleas are falling on deaf ears, though?
And like the other Canadians here, I’d also like to know why more options for ndt are not available here. How can ERFA corner the market? It’s a scary thought since ERFA doesn’t seem to really care about what has happened here, especially knowing that Canadians have no other choice but ERFA. Sounds like we’re hostage.
What the heck was I putting in my body that was making me sick again with hypo symptoms Erfa? What HAVE I been ingesting?
Some of my thoughts and questions are…. IF indeed the Erfa formula has not changed (or even if it has) since the beginning of 2014 …. 1. I think the tablets were perhaps not pressed correctly along with the addition of a new coating?: 2. Machines maybe were not cleaned properly in between different manufacturing of different products, contamination or coatings from other products still in vat? 3. Un- skilled workers using brand new pressing machines were not familiar with procedure or operations? 4. An entirely different coating more suitable for a new pressing machine was applied to the Erfa pills? And all of his could have bearing on the lack of potency or the blocking of the thyroid hormone in our cells, digestions and conversions? Or, simply put, someone was a sleep at the wheel of the whole manufacturing move without oversight by appropriate people in charge of quality control?
From my research: Quote in part: “Many tablets today are coated after being pressed. Modern tablet coatings are polymer and polysaccharide based, with plasticizers and pigments included. Tablet coatings must be stable and strong enough to survive the handling of the tablet, must not make tablets stick together during the coating process, and must follow the fine contours of embossed characters or logos on tablets.”
Note: we can clearly see from the above side by side photos that the “new” pills are shiner, deeper embossed, and have darker pigment and some reporting harder.
Quote: “The tablet press is an essential piece of machinery for any pharmaceutical manufacturer. Tablet presses must allow the operator to adjust the position of the lower and upper punches accurately, so that the tablet weight, thickness and density can each be controlled. Pharmaceutical tablet presses are required to be easy to clean and quick to reconfigure with different tooling, because they are usually used to manufacture many different products. There are 2 main standards of tablet tooling used in pharmaceutical industry: American standard ‘TSM’ and European standard ‘EU’. TSM and EU configurations are similar to each other but cannot be interchanged.” End of Quotes from my research.
With that information keep in mind, Erfa HAS eluded to 2 changes within the company; new pressing machine, and the moving of the manufacturing facility from Belgium to Spain. I personally don’t know, but questions I have are, what standard of the above the Spain facility uses with this “new pressing machine?” What did Belgium use with the “old pressing machine” What coatings were used in Belgium plant? What coating is being used in the Spain plant? “Similar but cannot be interchanged” is the phrase I’m questioning here. Also along with, the coatings of “polymer, polysaccharide, plasticizers and pigments, what the heck did Erfa use on these new pills? If some different coating was used, perhaps therein lays the sickness from the new pills? I don’t know.
However, I’d be surprised if there weren’t some quality control issues along the way in ALL departments of this company’s move, from the worker mixing up the pig powder to adding in the additives/fillers to the person pulling the lever on the pressing machine to decision to us a new coating and All this that will never be reported to the customers under any circumstances for fear of legal retaliation from patients I suspect.
With complaints flooding in recent months maybe just Maybe a THROUGH INVESTIGATION SHOULD have been done from start to finishing of the thyroid tablets in the manufacturing process!!! Then report the results from ALL THAT TESTING, along with the posting for all of us to see from the independent formula analysis, supposedly done, (remember all we have is Erfa saying so’s and if they had nothing to hide what’s wrong with pdf’n the report in a post?) When this many people start complaining about a thyroid treatment that has served them well by elevating hypo symptoms and now doesn’t since beginning of year, and only one thing was looked into and reported by the company “no change in formulation” and we get told to revisit our doctors because it must be us, then TRUST is broken.
We patients know when something “ain’t” right with our bodies from the reactions and symptoms we experience in life when taking ANY medication and in this case these “new” Erfa thyroid tablets ARE/and HAVE BEEN the cause of our return of hypothyroid conditions. To me this is Gross negligence on the part of Erfa to report that nothing is wrong with their product when clearly we know there is. AND to now ride off into the sunset with no public announcement to patients, doctors, and pharmacist of ANY kind (that I’m currently aware of) in addressing this situation, in my opinion is a “cover up” of a “goof up” within the companies operations! And who loses in this situation? Both; Us the thyroid patients with ill health and Erfa in loss of sales as we all scramble to find something else that WORKS! Right?
In conclusion, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I started WP thyroid last week and so far I’m feeling much better! So, Goodbye Erfa to your lack of dedication to your customer’s health by doing EVERYTHING possible to address, find, and correct the problems which have been reported to you in way of symptoms by so many on your thyroid pill since the beginning of the year 2014.. What have you done differently to the thyroid pills? WHAT have we been ingesting into our bodies with your pills that are causing illness! And only a through investigation into all aspects of your manufacturing is going to give all answers.
And to all my fellow hypo thyroid people, I wish you all the best of health and happiness! And to NEVER have to go through a situation like this EVER again once you find another method of treating your hypo condition!
Trisha
July 4, 2014
Hi,
Can anyone comment or report any up to date info / results of either of these two ERFA batches – Both of 125 mg tabs + 500 Tablets:
Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015
Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016
Sincere thanks & best to our of us for
our perseverance and courage!! 🙂
Trisha I’ve just replied to your previous message about this, sorry not to have seen it sooner – I had problems with a 500 jar of the 125mg 13C06 expiry 3/2016 as did several others. We all bought them from different pharmacies in different countries. Dr Kanfo says it was made in the old factory in Belgium not the new one in Spain and that nothing is wrong with it. I had immediate allergic-type reactions and upset stomach taking it, he suggested I had become allergic to the ingredients, but I am fine on an older batch! I have made a gradual switch to Thyroid-S which was the quickest to get and seems to suit me. As others are saying WP Thyroid is similar to the ‘old’ ERFA and ‘old’ Armour, I may go over to that eventually as there are rather a lot of fillers in Thyroid-S
Canadians, what are our options? I switched to T3 only after I read Janie’s previous post. Doing better, but not great, I was on T3 only a couple of years ago and didn’t work well for me then. Considering a small circadian dose of synthroid, starting at 25 mcg. Other than that I don’t know what to do. I want to get back on desiccated as soon as possible, much like everyone else.
So is this it with Erfa? Are we stuck not knowing why so many are sick on different batches? I am feeling better as long as my current batch lasts but then…. who knows with the next. How can they do this to us and get away with it?
Lucky some of you, in Finland our only options are Erfa or Armour. Or synthetic T4… Not good at all. Doing very
ill now, I cant start/buy another batch until I know they will work. This current one doesnt. 🙁
Hi Marjaanna,
You can try thyroid-s that is from Thailand and see if they will ship to you as another option that I too am looking into as we don’t have options here in Canada as well.
Google it to find it and they have a facebook page too.
Just a reminder that this issue is already quite confusing. When people talk about getting a batch of ERFA , it would probably make things clearer if they stated which country it came from.
I’m still confused about EFRA. Do they make it ALL in Europe, or is some made in Canada?
I’m on the point of emailing my endo to ask if I can have some liothyronine (T3) as the EFRA I have here isn’t doing anything and I am so ill.
Hi Nick Some is made in Canada and some is made in Europe…that is my understanding…
I am also am poorly on the last two batches of Erfa that I have had so -have switched brands -end of my my first day on WP Thyroid -and already the pain is lessening -was not expecting that to happen so quickly….but it is too early to say -might be a placebo effect. I am taking the same dose I would on Erfa. Sadly though switching brands was a step too far for my doctor so looks like I am on my own and once again back to buying it myself. My doctor was fine with me carrying on taking Erfa though even though it was making me so ill! Lol;. I am beyond caring so long as I get better I will buy WP myself……..
Thanks Angie, So batch numbers are the same for all of irrespective of where we live.
I’m still awaiting a reply from my(NHS) endo about what he proposes to do. I can’t hassle him because he’s the only person in the NHS who has actually done anything for me in over 30 years.
I am considering trying to buy some Thyroid-S or Thiroid from Thailand.
I’m really pleased you’re feeling good on WP. THYROID. I’ve switched to it too from ERFA and so far so good. I just wish I could get it from a pharmacy in the UK. I have to order online from the US.
Oh thankyou Sarah and Delann -good to hear the WP is working for you both. i am on day three now and feeling better -definitely improving which is a relief. Sarah are you in the uk? If so you can buy it from the Uk if you have prescription whether NHS or private -go onto Thyroid Uk they have a list of sources. Without a prescription you have to buy it abroad….
I found a letter to my thyroid specialist listing the symptoms that occurred when I went on new reformulated Armour thyroid back in 2011 -they were exactly the same as what I have experienced for the last 6 months on Erfa…. back then in 2011 my symptoms resolved when I went onto Erfa -three years ago…
Caz
Sarah, you can order it form Greenhey Pharmacy in Skelmersdale, UK
zai
Hi everybody is there same one who can help me . I was on Erfa and was doing great , but Icouldn’t get more an til August. So switch to Armour they said it the same but I am not feeling well I feeling hypo again. I am taking the same dose so I am asking if anyone has tried the same and what to do thanks zai
Zai, two ideas: have you tried raising the Armour? That might do the trick. Second, if raising doesn’t help, may be time to check adrenals and iron levels.
Sandra
Has anyone switched to Thyroid-S from thailand? I am just wondering if you have and have you had success feeling better on it.
Also I believe it has lactose as an ingredient and although I am not lactose intolerant but am dairy sensitive and wasn’t sure if anyone else who is the same has tolerated it?
Yes I have switched to Thyroid-S, I’d prefer not to take it because it has a lot of fillers, but it seems to suit me and so I’ll continue with it for a while. I am casein intolerant and possibly lactose intolerant – it’s been difficult to distinguish the two – but have not had any problems with the lactose in Thyroid-S.
After all the recent problems with Erfa I will now be looking a buying a different NDT and am considering NP Thyroid by Acella. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or recommendations on others? I live in the UK.
Yes Janie, I have been reading about NP Thyroid and will probably go with this one. I understand it has the least fillers which is what I want as have a lactose intolerance.
I have been following the Erfa story with great interest, having been through the Armour debacle and been on Erfa ever since. My latest lots have been working for me, with verification by fT3 and fT4 labs. Lots are:
60 mg lot 12J011 exp 10/2015
30 mg lot 13C011 exp 03/2016
Roberta:
Thanks..these exp dates are likely from the old factory and okay. Manufacturing dates and expiration respectively from the new factory (and problematic lots) appear to start with Dec/Jan 2014 and exp around 10/2016.
Angie, you stated that: “I already have a batch with expiration dates of 10/2016 that was unsatisfactory.”
Can you tell us please what Dosage,
Quantity of tablets in the bottle, & WHAT the Lot # was of that batch that you report as being instatisfactory?
Thank you!
Trisha: I have 2 batches from that manufacturing timeframe. BOTH were unsatisfactory. Was unable to obtain lot #’s for one of the two..for all I know it could be the same batch or not. The 2nd was 30 mg tabs Lot LF03117A. Supposed to be sealed container..not sure that it was. Do not purchase anything from this lot. Within 2-3 days I am ill from trying to take it and I have tried it, under different circumstances, several times.
Interesting Angie. This is the same lot number I just had filled and I have had to stop due to unreal heart palpations. As noted previously, I have switched brands and after 10 days on the new prescription my palpatations have almost disappeared. FYI
Hello again, Shirley: The 2 batches including the lot # that gave you (and me) problems caused me to feel very ill. I did have palps, which I don’t normally have, but felt hypo. My labs were fine, if even a little on the high side for me, but something was wrong. In addition, I felt a heavy chest feeling and a fatigue so profound I felt like I was seriously ill. I saw my primary care doc and I told him how badly I felt. He knows I am not given to histrionics. I will not take any ERFA from either of the two batches I received early this year again. I just rec’d a new batch with a lot # that others say they’ve done well on..We shall see. Watch my comments as I plan to keep everybody informed.
Hi Angie. I too felt that I was seriously ill and I spent alot of time in bed due to the severe fatigue. I had many nights when I was concerned about going to sleep. Thinking that I might have the “big one” overnight. Had never felt that way before. Look forward to hearing how you do on the new batch.
Angie
Hi Shirley: Early indications are that this batch feels a little more like I am used to. However, it does seem to be a little on the weak side..only on for the 3rd day now, so we shall see and I will definitely keep you posted!
Angie
I would like to know, from those that have ERFA expiration dates of 2017, from what pharmacy were they able to obtain same? I refuse to deal with The Canadian Pharmacy again and Canada Drugs states that they have no lots with expiration dates beyond 10/2016 (manufactured Dec 2013). I already have a batch with expiration dates of 10/2016 that was unsatisfactory.
Hi Angie,
I just bought the last of what they have 204 pills of 30 mg and the expiry was 2017. My pharmacy is Total Health Pharmacy on Davis Drive in Newmarket Ontario. I started them today and will see how I do over the next couple of days.
I had a days worth of my old pills (no shine, no idea what lot or expiry they were from) and felt better by afternoon yesterday when I took them and not feeling to badly today.
They are a local pharmacy but you could always give them a try to see if they would mail to you. They would have to have ordered in a new batch of 30mg as I took the last of what they had so it’s a roll of the dice what they will get when the reorder right?
I will be in the same boat not sure what I will get when I have to reorder.
So far I am feeling better on them.
Angie I bought mine online, it was from a company in the UK. I wasn’t sure if they’d ship to Canada successfully but it was okay. I’m not sure if they would let you know the expiry date before shipping ( I imagine they would though), I found out about the bad batches three days after I ordered them! I lucked out 🙂
Hi Y’all,
I appreciate everyone’s feedback & concern. I suffered greatly from the Armour reformulation fiasco, having to
navigate my way… very costly!!! Thus,
this is very disturbing.
I finally got back on ERFA six months
ago & am now building my ferriten level,
& had just begin to make my biggest turnaround in YEARS!!
However, I now have less than five days of ERFA left & am using a reserve of Armour which I don’t want to do! My dilemma is whether or not to chance reordering some ERFA or not? I don’t have the funds at present to see a private physician to request a Rx for Westhroid-P or Acella NP. But IF I get
a good ERFA batch – I’m set for a year!
Has ANYONE out there tried either of these two ERFA lot numbers: ERFA 125 mg tabs, 500 Tabs, Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015. OR Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016.
I would LOVE to have any feedback
re: these above; good or bad? * Especially if your experience was indisputably notable given a prior
experience of excellent ERFA – such that comparatively, there is no doubt!
Thank you & sincere thanks!!
Hi Y’all,
I appreciate everyone’s feedback & concern. I suffered greatly from the Armour reformulation fiasco, having to
navigate my way… very costly!!! Thus,
this is very disturbing.
I finally got back on ERFA six months
ago & am now building my ferriten level,
& had just begin to make a turnaround!
However, I now only have less than five days of ERFA left & am using a reserve of Armour which I don’t want to do! My dilemma is whether or not to chance reordering some ERFA or not? I don’t have the finds at present to see a private
physician to request a Rx for Westhroid-P or Acella NP. If I get a good ERFA batch I’m set for a year!
Has ANYONE out there tried either of these two ERFA lot numbers: ERFA 125 mg tabs, 500 Tabs, Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015. OR Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016.
I would LOVE to have any feedback
re: these above; good or bad? * especially if your experience was indisputably notable given a prior
experience of excellent ERFA – such that comparatively, there is no doubt!
Thank you & sincere thanks!!
Hi Trisha,
Several of us have had problems with the 125mgs 13C06 expiry 03/2016. Mine were in a jar of 500, we’ve all got them from different pharmacies in different countries. According to Dr Knafo that lot number was manufactured in the old plant in Belgium not the new one in Spain, and he says there is nothing at all wrong with them, nevertheless I had an immediate allergic-type reaction to them which I have never had to ERFA in the past and I have been taking it since 2011. He then suggested I had become allergic to something in ERFA, but when I went back to an older jar I was fine again. I have now made a gradual switch to Thyroid-S which seems good. I have no doubt at all that something is wrong with that lot number, it may be an ingredient or it may have been stored wrongly somewhere, which would explain why more people aren’t complaining about it.
I have just come on here to do a little research for myself and discovered that I am not alone. wow! I also just came back from seeing my doctor today who is sending me for blood tests tomorrow. My depression and hypo symptoms have returned. I have been on natural thyroid now for 4 years. A while back I got my prescription filled and I noticed right away that the pills had changed. I came on the internet to try and find out if Erfa had changed any of the ingredients as I have severe allergies. I could not find any information at all…none. I couldn’t even find an English web sight. So by reading on here I see that there is a severe problem with this company. I am appalled at their secrecy and lies. We know that they have changed it up on us! We know Erfa!! Not sure what it is we can do about this. I feel sick about it. Here I am having to get more testing done when it all has to do with Erfa. Wait till I tell my doctor!
HI Angie,
Please let me know how I can get in touch with Dr. Henri Knafo at Erfa, do you have an e-mail address for him? (Maybe it’s on here and I missed it) I don’t know where to get the lot # from as there isn’t one on my prescription bottle?
The email address is given early in the blog. Please let me know if you don’t find it and I’ll retrieve from my email [direct] correspondence with him.
Today is a different day, I’m home from work, too exhausted after a night of sleep. I then realized today that I did not take enough of the 30 mg pills to equal the dose I was taking in 60 mg pills and was ended up taking 30 mg less. It could be the reason I don’t feel good today but in my anxiousness decided to get the compounded prescription filled with clear instructions of what I want them to use and the amounts based on the information Janie has provided to us under thyroid treatments. The pharmacist told me he can only fill it with synthetic T3 and T4 and it would cost $200.00 for 120 pills. I said I didn’t want synthetic and would like to fill only a weeks worth of compounded. He said that he could not fill a small amount as he as to source and order in a certain amount and if I didn’t want a full prescription then he would be stuck with it, (which I understood). He also said it would be more expensive than the synthetic.
So is synthetic the issue or is the T4 only the issue but a T4/T3 combo possibly ok?
Hi Angie,
Thanks for telling me this and noticing that. You are too kind.I am going to get as many of them as I can now, I know it could be wasted money if they don’t work but if they do then it will be a blessing. So Lori wrote on the comments here that she was doing ok on batch LF03508A 2017 expiry?
thanks
Sandra..Lori wrote, some days ago, that the batch # in question she was doing okay on. If you scroll back in the comments on this blog, you will find her post. The best way to find out if she has continued to do well is to ask her directly.
That is great news! I seem to be doing ok on them too, fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for your reply Lori.
Sandra
Hi,
Late this afternoon, by some miracle was able to get an appt today by someone elses cancellation with my doctor to tell him that since I started my newest batch about a week ago have been seriously hypo. Before I went I called another pharmacy to find out that they had a batch of 30 mg LF03508A expirty 2017 and decided to get three days worth as I’d already spent money on 280 60 mg pills and didn’t want to waste money if this batch didn’t work. I sent my husband to go get them for me and drive me to my appointment as I was sheer exhausted from doing nothing on my day off and ovewhelmed by the thought of the 45 minute drive. I took the new pills before I left and
shortly after my appointment I started to feel my exhaustion lift, my depression disappeared and my mood and energy completely change!! I also crushed the pills between two spoons and put it under my tongue.
I am not going to jump the gun until I see how I do tomorrow when I go to work but will definitely report back.
If it is working then I plan to get as much of those 30 mg pills before they run out. Back up plan is that my doctor has given me a prescription for compounded thyroid and if I need to will use it even though it is more than I can afford to pay but it is either that or back to thinking of quitting my job, which is not an option financially.
Janie, my doctor also gave you high praises for your wonderful website being the greatest compilation of useful thyroid information out there on the internet!!! Thank you again!
Hi,
I have gone down hill since starting a 60 mg batch lot LF03139A exp 10 2016 and they are the shiny pills. I called my pharmacy to see if they have any both 30 or 60 pills expiry 2017 to see if it is a better batch and they have a batch that are from 2017 but are shiny but she said that both the 60’s and the 30’s are on back order!!!
So not only do we have to worry about the formula but we have to worry about getting our prescriptions filled too!
Sandra: I have a 30 mg batch exp 10/2016. Did not do well on them. Very interesting that the meds are back ordered with manufacturing replenishing maneuvers early 2014. Wonder if there was a problem and ERFA is maybe starting from scratch? See my “guinea pig” posts and followups to Janie.
Reading all the latest posts on this subject, it appears that the latest batches of ERFA COULD be OK. I’ve got a batch LF03507A (02/17) but am not yet feeling as well as I did in January/February. BUT, given that many of us may have been taking ERFA that doesn’t work, for months now, I wonder how soon we could actually expect to feel any improvement if these latest batches are OK.
I hope that everybody will continue to report back here in order that we can get a clear picture of what is actually happening with ERFA. As we all no, other factors can affect us, so knowing how others are getting along with the same medication is very useful.
“If you’re new to the use of thyroid hormone, and you’re up to a dose that should be working for you, but you’re not benefiting from it, be sure to let your doctor and your pharmacist know. The dosage range that’s safe and effective for most patients is between 2-to-4 grains (120-to-240 mg) of desiccated thyroid. The equivalent dosage range for T4 is 200-to-400 mcg (0.2-to-0.4 mg). If you’re not improving within this dosage range, you may have thyroid hormone resistance, or the potency of the tablets or capsules you’re using may be lower than what’s stated on the label.
If your thyroid hormone product was prescribed, the bottle containing the pills or capsules will have a batch number. Your pharmacist will probably replace your thyroid hormone tablets or capsules with others from another batch. If you’re using an over-the-counter product such as Nutri-Meds desiccated thyroid, the bottle won’t have a batch number, but you can ask the company to replace the capsules or tablets your currently using.
If thyroid hormone has effectively relieved your hypothyroid or thyroid hormone resistance symptoms, but some of your symptoms have reappeared, you should consider whether the capsules or tablets your presently using have a lower-than-stated potency. You should let your doctor and pharmacist know the symptoms that have recurred. It will also help to have objective evidence, such as a decreased basal body temperature. Your doctor may find that your Achilles reflex that had become normal with thyroid hormone therapy has become slow again. And you may find that your basal temperature is decreased. If your TSH level was within the reference range, it may now be much higher now. Also, if your free T3 level was within the reference range, it may be much lower now”
Not to mention that if you feel like a sledge hammer hit you over the head after taking one tablet, then that means something is wrong with the medication!
Dianne..I enjoyed your post. Just want to point out that my levels of T3 and T4 were fine on the “new” ERFA. I have seen posts from others where that was not the case. However, something was wrong. Of course, T1 and T2 nor calcitonin was measured. Nor did I do any toxicity panels. I had a severe fatigue, a heavy chest feeling, and felt so badly, as I told my primary, I would not have been surprised for him to tell me to put my affairs in order. Interestingly enough, though levels were good (even a little higher than I like them to be), I had no tendon reflex even with the hand-grasping maneuver…hmmmmm…
Hi, first of all, thank you for the blog! I write from Finland. I have been on Thyroid many years after changing from Armour because there was some changes in composition of Armour. In May I started 13G051 exp. 07 2015. I immediately noticed that tablets were extremely hard, and in one or two week I was again extremely tired. I was wondering what was happening and I also wrote email to this Dr. Knafo. He informed me that they have not changed the composition of Thyroid. Thanks to your blog I found out that also other patients have had problems with these new Thyroid tablets. Also some other Finnish patients has had problems with these new tablets. I am tired with these thyroid problems and problems with medications. Also in Finland it is very very difficult to get help from doctors because here in Finland only official medications is called Thyroxin. Also here we have only Armour or Thyroid, not anything else.
Terve, hello Mirjam. I have same lot 13G051 exp 07/2016 (you have exp 2015, it’s 2016?) and these don’t work. My friend have
lot LF03139B EXP10/2016 and it doesnt work eighter. These pills are 60 mg/500 pcs. This is so f***xx frustrating!
I’m just now hearing about the Erfa Thyroid change. I have been taking it since the Armour reformulation with good results. I still have enough to last until beginning of next year. I have not had any problems with what I have on hand right now. None of my bottles have lot numbers or expirations dates on them. I have been getting my refills from Universal Drugstore. I just got another script from my doctor & glad I have not filled it yet. Don’t need 500 pills of crap that don’t work. I hope there is a solution to the problem before I need a refill. Is the Armour back to where you can take it sublingually or is it still like it was when they made the change? You could not take it sublingually any longer on the last refill I had. If Erfa does not solve the problem I will have to switch but have not idea if I should switch back to Armour or something else. I finally signed up for STTM emails so I’m looking forward to an email saying Erfa has solved the problem. What else is everyone taking since this change has occurred? Don’t these companies know if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
FROM JANIE: I heard from Dr. Knafo this morning, and out of respect to him, I’m not going to print his entire email. But what I will state is that he continues to state that “there was no change in formulation or method of manufacturing. All the reports revealed that the medication is within normal specs.” You can also read between the lines of what he might have said by my response below:
Dr. Knafo,
Thank you for responding. I do believe you that you feel nothing was changed.
But your belief doesn’t take away that there are a growing body of patients who were doing very well….then when they started taking the “new” Erfa Thyroid, their symptoms came back. That is very telling, Dr. Knafo, that something has, in fact, changed….even if you believe nothing has.
No, this is not about your medication “not fitting all patients”. This is about patients who did, in fact, fit with Erfa Thyroid and were doing wonderful on it, only to see their symptoms come back when they started on their new bottles with the new Erfa Thyroid.
I work diligently to first examine and evaluate what I hear from patients before coming to any conclusion or even reporting on what I hear. That has been my method for over a decade with anything related to Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM). I have done the same with these patient reports about Erfa Thyroid. I hesitated. I listened. I examined. And it became clear to me that yes, something has changed. You simply cannot discount this many people who did wonderful, ONLY until they started on their “new” Erfa and saw their hypothyroidism return.
It grieves me that you seem to be discounting what’s going on across the board as to what is clearly going on. And if you are reading the heartfelt responses on my blog post, you are grieving many other sincere people, as well. That won’t bode well for Erfa Canada. 🙁
How can he continue to say there was no change in the “method of manufacturing” when we’ve been told the “compression” of the tablet is different due to different equipment? I worked in manufacturing facilities long enough to understand that IS A CHANGE in the manufacturing process. So that lie needs to stop.
As for no “change in the formulation”, ok Dr. Knafo, I can believe you on that. The ingredients may be the same – BUT WERE THEY EXAMINED/ANALYZED for contaminants? For example, in my email to Dr. Knafo (in May which he never answered) I questioned whether there could have been “cross-contamination” with medications that contain gluten. If the new Spain manufacturing facility processes medications with gluten, the equipment must be totally santitized/etc. before processing any medications claiming not to contain gluten – or does ERFA not claim that???
We will never get the truth on this though…and Dr. Knafo’s conscience is his problem…my problem is the decline in health I got while on BAD ERFA…which lost them a loyal customer.
Anyone know where I can get a couple hundred dollars refund due to BAD ERFA? 🙁
Janie..I continue to ask the same questions as in my earlier post. What testing was done? Dr. Knafo has offered to show us the results, but when asked for them he has not responded (at least to my email anyway). ERFA fit me just fine from 2009 to 2014. Life changing like no other. And it is suddenly no longer a fit???? Interestingly enough, when I switched back to older ERFA or N-T, the symptoms I had dissipated. This is not a pt issue. I am not interested in a lawsuit. I am interested in getting my old ERFA back. It sounds as if Knafo and ERFA are going to discount those that have had problems. I have seen a couple of posts that indicate that batches with exp dates of 2017 and after are okay. Janie, can you confirm? I do just okay on Nature-throid, don’t seem to absorb WP at all, have not tried Thyro-Gold and great on the OLD ERFA. In addition, the Nature-throid causes a return of acute diverticulitis eventually, which is no fun at all. Unsure as to why..Please help, Janie and thanks in advance for your help.
Angie, it’s too soon for me to report that batches with an expiration of 2017 are working. As someone attempting to help thyroid patients, I feel a strong responsibility to listen to a lot more reports before mentioning that something is gospel. But I’ll keep listening and report if something looks like a strong possibility.
I am getting confused by the dates for Erfa thyroid batches. When I was sourcing the thyroid med brand I wanted to switch too I spoke to pharmacists at central supplies in the Uk. On of them told me that Erfa Thyroid has changed its formula from 2017 batches onwards…..now I am sorry I was so shocked I didn’t get that person’s name. This pharmacist was very clear about the testing -He said well testing the active ingredients in a thyroid tablet is not going to really help -what you need to know is the fillers and how they interact with the active thyroid meds and the degree they aid or inhibit uptake. So I am interested that Dr Knafo has confirmed that testing for the ratio of t4 to t3 is the same but not commented on the interaction between this and the fillers. Why?
Dr Knafo has still not replied to my last three emails or even read them by the looks of it. I don’t understand, I was a happy patient who was on Erfa doing really well for over three years…..and then something happened in 2014 -and boom crash wallop my health has collapsed and you wont reply? I have no other medical conditions beyond Hypothyroidism…..my doctor has checked! Suddenly Erfa is not a fit for me? -well yes that is true now but not because I have changed Dr Knafo!!
Wavey: We believe the formula was changed OR there was a problem with early 2014 manufactured batches. Not 2017. I disagree, coming from a laboratory testing environment that testing of active ingredients is inconsequential. In fact, changes in proportion or amount of trace active ingredients (calcitonin, T1 and T2) may very well be some of what we all were experiencing as WELL as a thorough investigation as to possible contaminants. Give Dr. Knafo some time. He usually does respond, but can be a little slow.
Angie
Janie: I may volunteer to be a guinea pig. I read that at least one (maybe two or three) had done better on batches/lots with later expiration dates (e.g., 2017). I’ll know pretty quickly if the same issues persist. May take two-three weeks as I receive meds somewhat slowly. Stay tuned and thanks for your help.
Well, attempted to get a 2017 exp date or after from Canada Drug. These people confound me. Every single time I place an order, it takes several phone calls and/or emails to get the order completed and sent on its way. Today was told by someone (I’ve been an educated thyroid pt since 1996) at Canada Drug that they were going to fill my script with Armour (presumably the new since the old isn’t available) since the old Armour and ERFA were the same medication (they actually are not..slight T4/T3 ratio difference). Saw other posts that stated that 30 and 60 mg were not in stock..could this be ERFA starting from scratch and fixing their problem? One can only hope…stay tuned!
Angie
Was just told by Canada Drug that they had no ERFA with an exp date of later than 10/2015…have asked them some pointed questions..where are you all getting the late 2017 exp date batches?
Angie
One other point, however…has Knafo responded to you with regard to testing that was done and actual results?
Angie,
I fully appreciate that Dr Knafo is a very busy man -but what i find strange is that he replied to my first emails giving him the info but has not read the last two emails -as i ask for a read receipt. He has in the past responded quickly……not now… My emails are polite and respectful and were sent nearly two weeks ago..
Darla
Here’s a thought…should we all not report side effects to Health Canada..to launch a further investigation? Online:www.health.gc.ca/medeffect.
That’s a good idea, but I’d hold off on that until we see if the new pills are ok. If Health Canada gets involved they could shut Erfa down completely. I have a friend who works with insurance\drug companies, and she said if they get complaints about a drug, Health Canada shuts them right down… I don’t know all the details about all that… but if the new pills are ok, we definitely down want to loose the only NDT here in Canada.
I’d like to hear from those with later expiration date batches..I’m willing to order one and try it, but if I have similar problems, then I absolutely will complain to Health Canada. If ERFA is not going to launch a serious investigation into this and provide us with full disclosure of same, then quite frankly they NEED to be shut down. I was so ill on the new med I thought I was dying and I assure you my doctor, knowing that I am not given to histrionics, took that quite seriously.
Angie, that’s a good point. If ERFA has no problem putting out what some of us feel is a contaminated product to the public, then maybe they should be reported to Health Canada, and let the chips fall where they may. Like you, some of us have reported we felt like we were dying on it, but we do fine on old ERFA; and ERFA maintains an attitude that it’s something wrong on our part.
Pharmarama in the UK have a batch of 30mg x 500 EFRA Thyroid dated exp 2017, lot # LF03508A but tell me that they will not send any out until earlier stocks are exhausted.
I asked if the person that I spoke to could give me an idea of the appearance of these tablets but they are not allowed to open the containers.
I don’t know how many UK ERFA users get their supply through Phramarama but it could be quite a while before that batch reaches me! 🙁
Lori T
Angie I am one with a newer batch of 30mg x 500 EFRA Thyroid dated exp 2017, lot # LF03508A and am doing fine on them. They seem to be the old version, no shininess, no spots, no hardness, no deep indentations and no bad side effects.
I read earlier that Paul has a batch (Lot: LF03505A, Exp: 02/2017) that is causing him problems. I’m not sure if his are 30mg, but they are one tiny number off in the lot number.
Very interesting Lori. I have a batch of the LF03507A that do not appear to be working (and also resemble the shinier new look). So have ERFA changed back I wonder? It would be the answer to all our prayers!
Angie
Hi Lori T:
What is your specific exp date besides the year (ERFA usually provides the month as well). Thanks for weighing in!
A.
Lori T
Angie, sorry I should have put the month also, it is 02/2017
Sandra
Hi Lori,
I was wondering if you are still doing well on this batch? I just started it today and would love to hear good news. I am starting a staycation next week and although not the big picture would love to feel well enough to enjoy it.
thanks!
Dianne
re: the test results people would like to see: I emailed Dr. Knafo today (June 18, 2014) asking if I could see the results of the test. Dr. Knafo told me that the tests are confidential and seen only by Health Authorities (Health Canada), and that they are available in their office only, also saying that ‘(we don’t let it out)’. I’m not sure if this means if someone is able to travel to Montreal to Dr. Knafo’s office, whether they can view the results there, though.
Interesting…Knafo offered for us to see the tests earlier. I have requested also and I have requested to learn what tests were actually done. I have had no response as yet. To give Dr. Knafo credit, he usually does respond albeit slowly.
Is there a way to get the formulation of what was in the “good” Erfa including what filler, amount of T3 and T4 and other ingredients for me so I can tell my pharmacy what to do to create my compounded natural thyroid formula?
thank you
Hi Janie
When I click that link it says that page is unavailable anymore.
thank you if you could let me know if there is a way to view it or get the amounts listed here.
I have my doubts as others do about the results from the independent lab that nothing was shown to be wrong with the erfa thyroid pills since changing manufacturing facilities. Why didn’t Dr. Knafo post the results from his “independent Re-testing”? Unless I missed it, I suggest he do that. He knows of this site.
I can only sit here and wonder why did a proven thyroid treatment that finally gave me back my life, suddenly with Quote “no change” start making my hypo symptoms return? The repercussions of admitting something did indeed go wrong would create turmoil within that company with perhaps numerous law suits, the returns of batches in question, the refunds in monies. Can you imagine the demands to make good on the bad batches in question and especially with what? 300 “new” customers?
Companies that think they can play with thyroid medication as though it was a vitamin or some general across the board supplement are missing the intelligence boat when it comes to people like me who have NO thyroid gland and have to rely on replacement med to live. We hypothyroid people of all people know when there is a “change” in something. The thyroid hormone is so vital to life that if it gets “off” in the smallest of ways, we detect it.
How can Dr. Knafo dismiss so many reporting ill effects and in the same breath say nothing has changed? Is he trying to send the message that over 170 posts of such that it is all in our heads? Or, we have all of a sudden “changed” something in our lifestyles or diets? Get real. I know I haven’t “changed” anything in my routine.
I don’t know what internal disruption may have taken place within the Erfa Company for it to have “changed” its manufacturing plant in the first place, or what could possibly motivate them to “blame” the patient instead of a through investigation based upon the uproar of patients complaints reporting. I don’t know if contaminations, sub standard ingredients, changes in additives/fillers, unskilled help in the new facility, transport heat and cold regulations were met or what everrrrrrrrr has happened. However, I guess erfa underestimated this time by NOT doing a COMPLETE investigation into EVERY avenue of the manufacturing plant and production of thyroid medication as a concerned company should do and reporting that results, because they now see that many are dropping erfa for other thyroid treatment meds.
Dr Knafo may state that the “retesting” showed no change in the concentrations of t4/t3, However, It is what he is NOT saying that is detrimental! I truly believe they are hiding something. I agree a hundred percent with what Janie said that this is all HOG WASH! I no longer trust Erfa Company and will never recommend it to anyone else again like I did in previous years nor will I use this product Erfa Thyroid again!
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
Hi Delann, similar symptom here too
June 1st, ended and old batch of Thyroid and Started on a new one (Lot: LF03505A, Exp: 02/2017)
Blood work on June 3rd, Back to hypo. TSH:1.4, T4L:11.3 (normal 12-22) T3L: 1.9 (Normal 1.3-3.1) TPO-ab: 29 (Normal 0-35)
June 4- 5 very bad headeakes, June 6-7-8-9 , Terrible headeackes + plus pain all over the body, ackes muscles, could not speep, too painfull, restless legs, had to take tylenol with codeine to ease the pain. No energy at all, very tired.,depress.
Used to have migraine for many years and be hospitalise at some occasion. Found out that I had milk intollerance, stop all milk product since august 2013 and no headakce since. except this episode with Erfa Thyroid, really make me wonder about the product contaminated???
During that episode, I found this site and all this blog on Erfa. I then stard shopping around to differents neigborghoud pharmacies to find and old bottle of Thyroid that I fimally found and start taking it on June 14, That’s a week ago, since, no more headeackes, no more pain, felling better, no more depress, was able to mow the grass, do bike, the sun is back again
From what I read, from the symptom occurings at the same time that I took this new bach or Erfa, 2+2=4 , There seems defenitely something wrong
Thanks Janie ,you are doing a terrific job at hepling and informing people
Paul, Montreal
I forgot to add that, in an act of desperation, I am now crushing the ERFA tabs with half a tab of B12, between two spoons and mixing the powder into 500 ml of fruit juice. I started yesterday and this morning I didn’t wake up feeling like I was in hell.
Nick this is an interesting way to take ERFA. Can you tell me what the lot number and expiry are of the tablets you’re doing this with. Also the B12 tablets please? I have lot humber 13C02 expiry 03/2016 which was made in the old factory in Belgium but I had an immediate stomach reaction to it and after three days became suddenly dizzy and light-headed. Not sure if I want to try them again but if your way of taking them works that would be good as I have a jar with 495 tablets left in it and only two weeks of the old tablets left 🙁
Hi Anne,
Mine are the same batch 13C06 2016 and I feel terrible on them. I was told, like you, they were from the old factory and everything is ‘fine’ Am signed off work by my GP as am too poorly to work -waiting for the WP Thyroid to come through -can’t wait! I was on Erfa Thyroid for over three years and did really well, felt great until the start of 2014…..been down hill ever since….
Dr Knafo -why haven’t you replied to my last three emails? You told us to contact you if we had any concerns…..
Waveylines I told Dr Knafo that I had an immediate allergic-type response to those tablets and he replied by suggesting I had become allergic to something in them and should see my doctor. He didn’t seem to understand that this is impossibloe as I am not allergic to the other ERFA tablets that I have!
Dianne
Anne, I also told Dr. Knafo about my allergic reactions to the new ERFA, and that I wasn’t allergic to the old stock. So more than just one person has complained about an allergic reaction! The ‘not-seeming-to-understand’ part is maddening and a little unbelievable.
Jerrod Penworth
i got the 500 125mg erfa about two weeks ago, lot 13C06 2016,,, i ran out the end of may my body temps began to get real cool by the 10th of june 94.5f under the arm,,,when i got the new batch two weeks ago i began 3 grains a day,,, my body temps back up and everything is well notice no difference except they maybe a little stonger than my last 500 125mg bottle,,my pills do not look all speckled with colors they just slightly crunch and melt in your mouth very pleasent as always,, im very sensitive to change so maybe my batch was a good batch good luck folks
Nick
Sorry for the delay in replying. My batch number is LF93507A (expiry 02/17). My previous batch was LF03072A (10/16).
I noticed no difference from crushing the tablets but have upped my dose from 4×30 mg per day to 6×30 and do feel slightly better. I’m suffering with a bit of hay fever at present so hard to say if the increased dose has any negative effects. I am also taking them sublingually (they taste quite pleasant). And I take my B12 the same way at the same time as my morning dose so the two ‘go in’ together. I’ve no idea if this works well or not.
BTW I used to suffer with hayfever prior to being put on Armour (when it worked). So the hayfever seems to be related to the hypo (which is Hashis). No doubt all tied up with the immune system.
I’m beginning to wonder if they aren’t now making Armour and ERFA with synthetic T4/T3. Remember this all started with the FDA in the US wanting to bring Armour under its control! And we all know that the medical establishment promotes the idea that synthetic thyroid hormones work for everybody.
Thanks for telling me this Nick, also I see you’re going to try NatureThroid, that worked for me after Armour was reformulated but I didn’t get any more when it too was reformulated, I switched straight to ERFA. It would be good to know if you get on with it when you do get some! Are you the person who became ill after travelling in the far east years ago?
It seems that lot numbers BN136051 60 mgs expiry 07/2016, and LF03140B 60 mgs expiry 10/2016 are both ok. If so this adds to the confusion. Some batches ok, some not, some from the old factory in Belgium (mine) some from the new factory in Spain, some look the same as usual some look different, some people are saying the same batches are ok when packaged in 100s but not in 500s, it doesn’t make much sense!
Yes, I got much more ill (I’ve never been properly well) after a back-packing trip around the world between 1979 and 1981. That’s now on You Tube if you are interested.
Nick – I can’t reply to you direct for some reason so I do hope you see this – thank you for the link to your YouTube videos of your trip around the world – I’ve watched the first one and have bookmarked them all to watch over the weekend. I’ve also linked on my Facebook page because I’m sure my friends will enjoy them too!
Nick
Hi Anne, yes I saw your post. I hope you enjoy the video clips (from happier days when my life didn’t revolve around thyroid medication lol)
I can’t see that crushing them would do anything different to having them simply dissolve under the tongue.
Karen
Hi Janie,
Thanks for all you do on behalf of thyroid patients around the world.
After reading your comments and those of others with respect to current Erfa problems, I wondered if there is any possibility that the problem is with the raw T3/T4 active ingredients supplied to the various manufacturers. The reason I ask is I switched to Naturethroid after the Armour disaster and after six months on it have had a return of higher TSH, hair falling out, fatigue, feeling freezing cold and low temperature, etc., with no change in my dose. Does anyone oversee the actual suppliers of the pig/ hog thyroid? Is it manufactured in the US?
Hi Karen, probably not, because there aren’t widespread complaints about any of the other NDT’s. Your issue with Naturethroid was because of what we’ve gone over a few times—you probably have low iron and/or a cortisol problem….:)
I have also telephoned the pharmacy that supplies my ERFA, and they are going to find out if they can obtain Naturethroid. If they can, I will ask my (NHS) endo if I can try that instead of the ERFA.
For those in the UK, the pharmacy (Lloyds) told me that they buy ERFA from Pharmarama. According to the Thyroid UK site, Pharmarama also sell Naturethroid. So in theory at least, it should be an easy switch if your doctor/endo agrees to change the prescription.
Hi Nick,
I live in the Uk too -and normally get my prescription of Erfa on the NHS ( which like you was a major achievement!) -my Lloyds pharamcist has told me they can get Naturethroid so you should be alright once you have convinced your endo….. I actually want to switch to WP Throid which is by the same company but made for those of us who are hypoallegenic ( sorry spelling) but Lloyds say they can’t get it for me -so am on the hunt for a stockist in the UK.
Good luck Nick with the Endo…..I’ve got an appointment with my GP this Wed on the same mission…..not optomistic either! So already pruchased some off the net……not going down the levo route again ever!
I had a call back from the hospital pharmacy yesterday afternoon to ask me about the problem. They suggested that I give my endo a list of all the alternatives as any medication that is purchased by the hospital has to be approved by a committee as being safe, coming from an approved source etc. So the more options that they have, the more likely they are to get an approved alternative, although I suspect that Naturethroid is favourite.
Good luck with your search for WP thyroid. I couldn’t find that one when I searched yesterday.
I haven’t had hay fever since I went on NDT but this year it is very bad!
Hi Nick,
Thanks and you 🙂
WP Thyroid is the new name for WesthroidP it is made by the same manufactureres as Naturethroid
Lloyds Pharamcy can get it -their specialist team in London source and order in and then it is sent out to your local pharmacy. So eitheryou get it from the hospital or your endo needs to ask your GP to prescribe. However I have to warn you that just becuase an endo recommends doesn’t mean to say that the GP’s will oblige you with a prescription…..so be careful! Sorry you probably have found this out already…lol
I also discovered that WP is West-Throid, and it is supplied by the same people as Nature-Throid.
I don’t get my NDT from my GP. He (and the local PCT) refused to supply it, so my very kind endo prescribes it instead. In a way that makes things a bit easier, but of course if he leaves, I am scuppered.
I recently blagged a B12 injection off a new GP, and noticed that it relieved all the hypo symptoms. Because I only had a single shot, the effect was short-lived but I am now in a full-on battle to get regular B12 treatment, even though my serum levels are OK. But, as it took me 15 years to get NDT, I may well be relieved of ALL symptoms before I get the B12 shots. 😉
Nick
As a male, I thought that I’d better chip in before this situation is dismissed as female hysteria! lol
I too have gone right down hill again this year, very similar to how I did when they changed Armour Thyroid. I thought that the reason imay have been a virus I had, but I should be well over that by now, and I am continuing to get worse.
I am in the UK, and will now write to my NHS endo to tell him of the situation, and see if he will agree to try another NDT. It took me months to get him to switch me to ERFA from Armour, so I don’t hold out much help of getting help quickly.
If these companies must change something (and why fix it if it ain’t broken?) then surely they should put out a small batch first to see how the customers react. I worry that this is another company that has been ‘got to’ as ‘they’ try to get us ALL on synthetic thyroid medication.
I feel that the erfa is contaminated.
They wont admit to it.
Too many of us ill.
I am well again on nature – throid.
No confidence in erfa to ever go back.
Unreliable. Can’t be trusted.
I agree, Jobeth. The company lacks integrity and respect for its consumers. Even if the “mystery” of the whole Erfa Thyroid debacle is solved, would we really want to put our faith (and money) into a company that so unethically and disrespectfully disregarded the people who keep them in business??? I. Think. Not. Bye bye Erfa.
To those of you who are switching to other desiccated: Have you looked into the inactive ingredients in some of them? I thought Westhroid P would be a good substitute for ERFA when it was unavailable in Dec-Jan , but I had allergic reactions to ints inactives. I have a list I will post later on inactives in desiccated.
The ingredients are all listed here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands And once you discover and treat either your low iron and/or cortisol issues, you may see what seems like allergic reactions go away!
I just wish these thyroid pharmaceutical companies would produce an ndt medication that doesn’t have all these unnecessary ‘other ingredients’ in them. I don’t think colouring, products used in plastics and anti-freeze, titanium dioxide, CELLULOSE, and who-knows-what-else (to name a few), is needed! Most of us that need thyroid hormone replacement already have enough problems without ingesting… garbage. I believe ERFA had a high quality product that most of us could tolerate well, and then they went and changed the formula. And most likely because it’s cheaper to produce. At least those are my suspicions. Now look at the mess we’re in.
Janie: Unfortunately those tests – serum iron, ferritin and TIBC – are not routinely done when you enter the ER at my hospital. I will have to ask my primary for those tests. Thank you for your information.
Dianne, my thoughts exactly: “Maybe the only way we can really find out for sure what is in ‘new ERFA’ is to find an independent lab that has no direction/instruction from, or affiliation with, ERFA Canada”. Mike at Natural News does toxicity tests on food and perhaps other substances. If I had any of the new pills I’d send him some…
I am SO glad I found this info. I was beginning to think I was nuts. I have been taking ERFA for years and just recently after getting my script refilled my weight began to creep up after being steady at 140 I have gained almost 10lbs in just a few months with no change in diet or exercise. I just looked at my tablets and they look like the new ones- shiny and hard. I have a bottle of older ones and compared- totally different. I think I will switch back to the older batch and contact my local compounding pharmacy to see if they carry Naturethroid. I went through the Armour debacle, am now dealing with trying to locate a good new thyroid Dr since my previous one literally disappeared with no patient notification. The new Dr I saw the other day seems to be narrow minded,only goes by numbers and doesn’t like natural thyroid. I have a feeling she will want to put me on synthroid. I also have an 89 yr old Mum with Graves without a thyroid so I have her to worry about as well.
Janie, please could you ask Dr Knafo to certify that Erfa is still gluten free and that the new factory and new raw ingredients are guten-free certified with no possibility of contamination? I have celiac symptoms while on lot: LF03140A, EXP: 10/16. I observe a strict gluten-free diet and want to know if Erfa is safe in this regard. In order to be given the term ‘gluten-free’ manufacturers must observe certain rules. Erfa has up to now claimed gluten-free status.
Rules on certification are here: http://www.celiaccentral.org/gluten-free-certification/
Erfa has us by the throat and they know it. This problem will persist as long as they are allowed to corner the market. Perhaps we’re better off focusing our energies on someone who will listen and cares about their customers. How do we lobby RLC labs to open shop in Canada – so that we can get Naturethroid and WP. Do we all start sending them emails and start a social media campaign to get RLC’s attention?
Maybe the only way we can really find out for sure what is in ‘new ERFA’ is to find an independent lab that has no direction/instruction from, or affiliation with, ERFA Canada. Does anyone have any ideas? Would Health Canada be able to test it, with no input from ERFA in any way? Or some other lab? It seems ERFA’s recent testing did not test the actual ingredients, just the concentration. Which is of no value to us in the least.
good God…i just started on this yesterday after months of avoiding meds!! my pills are 30mg and don’t look like the grainy ones. they are easy to cut and not hard like the newer ones. they could be the better batch. i am experiencing diarrhea today…i assume from the erfa.
please, do you guys think i should stop taking it and wait for better clarification? thanks for this website..its been so helpful. karen.
I have been taking Erfa Thyroid since 2010..The new 2014 Erfa is making me sick. .I am not going to take Erfa until they correct the medication. I do not care how much “testing” is done. This does not change the fact that all my symptoms have returned and my free t3 and t4 have plummeted. My vitamin D and ferritin levels are perfect..I am interesting in seeing your “sales” for 2014 next year Dr. KNAFO. You would never admit to the public that such a vital mistake was made anyway. To disregard so many people’s health and well- being is beyond me.
It seems they only tested the concentration of all the batches which people complained about, instead of what was actually in them. The problem can’t have been the concentration, because if it were then every person taking ERFA would have complained. The problem must be in the fillers or else due to some sort of contamination. I think this is most likely because many of us had immediate allergic-type reactions to it. It could also be something to do with the new compression machines altering the chemical content by their heat, but that doesn’t explain those of us having problems with the ‘old’ batches made in Belgium. Also I’ve read one post where someone has an even newer batch with an expiry of 2017 and they are fine, so it could possibly be a fault in all batches made between certain dates. A cynic might think that when the first reports started emerging about problems, the facility began a new run with completely new ingredients.
Janie..I live in Ontario.Canada and have read your book a couple of times now and this is what set me in motion to switch to a dessicated thyroid. After being on levo/synthroid and combo of Cytomel for 20 years at .150mg i have struggled with feeling “normal/ human”. I had been diagnosed with Graves disease when I was 19 and was treated twice with Radioactive Iodine, now in my early forties I wanted to take a stand and feel normal again. I decided to switch doctors after my family doctor was against prescribing a natural thyroid and consulted a naturopath doctor in February. This is how it has played out thus far….my NP doctor diagnosed me with adrenal gland fatigue and put me on Adrenplus 300 which is suppose to help the fatigued adrenals. He could not prescribed dessicated thyroid as Health Canada does not permit him to as of yet…he indicated to me that it was soon to be approved. So onto the next step I located a doctor in London, Ontario which I inquired if he treated adrenal and thyroid problems, which was confirmed he did. At my initial visit, he indicated to me that he really doesn’t believe in adrenal fatigue…and so he switched me to ERFA 60 mg. So 3 months later ..now I am in a real mess..here are my tests result as of May 25/14 TSH:15, T4:7, T3:2.1. Two weeks ago I went for my follow-up and he said to increase by 30 mg and then another 30 mg after a while if I still feel awful..no problem until I read about the Erfa mess. I increased by 30 mg and now am having symptoms of Graves disease again…fast heart rate, weak…dizzy…can’t sleep…So, back I went today to see him …this is what he told me to do…go back down to 60 mg! I was shocked and in disbelief that he thought it would work to put me back down to what I was on with such awful tests results and feeling..so tired. I said to him, do you not believe that there could be a problem with my adrenals causing this reaction to the increase of dessicated thyroid. An absolute NO! He said its simple…you felt better on less or I can switch you back to a synthetic t4, t3 combo syn/cyto and to which I indicated i have tried that. He said well you have to decide not me …I left and will not be returning. So now what? I guess I will have to go back on synthroid – which I sure don’t want to do., but until I can find another doctor who is taking new patients and can actually help! If any one reading is from Ontario an has a good doctor I hope you can help….I am once again at my WITTS END!!
Janie,
In the midst of my anger when I posted last, I forgot to say thank you for your well written reply to Dr. Knafo. Thank you for being our voice. I am eternally grateful to you and for your life saving (once again) blog.
I am still at a loss about what is available to those of us in Canada as an alternative besides compounding. Is there a list that I can reference?
thank you
thank you
Hi Darla,
I feel for what you are experiencing. There are a couple of people that you can see, Dr Natasha Turner in Toronto and Dr Cara Flamer are two people. I did see both of them at one time for a short period but they were not covered by OHIP and I could not afford it. Also there is a list of doctors somewhere here on STTM that you can try. Also try calling your local compounding pharmacy and ask for a name of doctors that prescribe NTH and or cortef. It sounds like you need adrenal support in order to proceed and is why NTH is not working for you. Don’t give up and sorry I am not of much more help. I would offer you my MD but he said I cannot refer thyroid patients to him, just wants to treat menopausal men and women!
Hi Heather,
I apologize for not replying as I haven’t checked back on all my comments until recently.
His name is Dr. Gibb and he is located in Oshawa. He is an MD and charges $150.00 for the year and then charges your 20 minute appt to OHIP.
Good luck!
Darla
Sandra…thank you..I have found a doctor in Oakville, ON..appointment not until August 20th…will let you know. She does believe in adrenal fatigue as she herself has experienced it. May be light at the end of the tunnel.
Hi Darla,
That is fantastic!
Would you be able to email me the name of the doctor you will see in August.
I want to keep my doctor options open as I don’t know when my doctor plans on retiring.
thanks and good luck, would love to hear how you make out.
waveylines
Personally I think the clue is when he said they had a three fold increase in demmand for Thyroid ……that’s a huge rise to have to meet, which would not only involve increasing machinery to make it but sourcing increases with their suppliers, distributions, storage, packaging, staffing etc…..and still maintaiin a high quality product! Hmmm…..
Thanks for the tips on alternatives Janie 🙂 🙂
“Also I’ve read one post where someone has an even newer batch with an expiry of 2017 and they are fine, so it could possibly be a fault in all batches made between certain dates. A cynic might think that when the first reports started emerging about problems, the facility began a new run with completely new ingredients.”
That’s interesting to hear Anne. I happen to be a cynic. : ) I might try to see if I can get a hold of a few 2017 tablets, and see how I react. I’ll know pretty quickly. I feel so terrible on new ERFA, though, that I’m actually scared to try it again.
Dianne I’m considering asking the pharmacy where I bought mine to substitute them for a new batch (expiry 2017) as soon as they have new stock. I know that the pharmacy, which is online, has promised that to another person. Either way I’ve spent the money on them and Dr Knafo’s statement means I can’t get a refund easily, but like you I’m now very wary of ERFA. Yesterday I began a slow switch to Thiroyd and am imagining all sorts of off effects today which are no doubt all in my mind!
Janie: would you consider doing a post advising Canadian and international patients on how to switch to another brand of NDT? There is a lot of info about the different options, but, particularly for Canadians, what’s missing is information on how to speak to our dr’s on making the switch to either compounded or a US brand (like WP of Naturethroid, for example). I’m seeing a lot of people on Facebook etc. that have done this, but it would be helpful to have the info on how to request it from your doctor and explain that Erfa is not the only option.
Hi Cynthia,
You say people are ordering other thyroid hormone’s into Canada, are you able to copy and post that information here in case Janie maybe too busy to do that for those of us who may need this sooner than later?
It would help greatly.
Dear Janie and readers,
I’m not affected by the ERFA reformulation, as I buy Thiroyd from Thailand. But I want to ask, have any of you tried crushing a tablet between two spoons, adding a bit of sugar or dextrose (found in the baby aisle at the supermarket) and tucking it in between your cheek and gum? This isn’t a great solution, but it might help somebody survive with their current supplies until they can find a better brand.
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne,
Do you know if your’s can be ordered into Canada? Can you forward any information where to order etc to us here so we can look at that as an option?
That would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Hi Sandra, I’m pretty sure, that YES Thiroyd and Thyroid-S, both from Thailand I believe and sold by the same person can be shipped into Canada, as it is looked at as a supplement. If you are on facebook they have groups you can “like” for Thyroid-S and Thiroyd, and it gives contact information to order the pills. Or I’m sure you could also google it and find some info on the pills as well.
Hi again,
I am now feeling quite desparate as I have been getting worse. I was wondering if you see this, can you tell me why you think I can order it into Canada? I just tried to order it from amazon.com and it wouldn’t ship to my address.
thanks
Like other people, I’m not surprised by Dr. Knafo’s response. I was expecting it. Afterall, ‘there has been no change in formulation’, has been ERFA’s claim all along, and they are sticking to their story. The ‘tests’ sound like a joke, to be frank. Dr. Knafo says, ‘There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other.” So, it sounds like all they looked at was the concentration in all the batches. (?) Then he says, ” We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique.” This doesn’t sound like a result from testing, this is just the same line Dr. Knafo has been saying all along. Did they test for toxins/contaminants/heavy metals; did they compare the exact ingredients of new ERFA with the same ingredients from the tried and true formula they’ve used for years? Certainly doesn’t sound like it? Can you please post the test results for all of us to see, Dr. Knafo?
And, so again, I’m insulted and frustrated and yes, devastated, by how ERFA has handled this disaster. It isn’t necessarily a disaster to them because, hey, ERFA has increased its customer volume in the last year. So that means more money for ERFA. And the loss of just one of the 10,000 Canadian customers is not important. What is important to ME is that ERFA Thyroid is the only prescribed ndt in Canada. There is no other alternative for me. And, I will not poison myself by taking new ERFA. I felt like I was dying on it.
ERFA, there is something drastically wrong with the new ERFA Thyroid, and I feel it is, at the least, unethical to supply this medication to the public. And, I’m sorry, but the whole situation has felt underhanded and dishonest. I lost some of my trust in ERFA when I first contacted you about the reaction I was having to new ERFA back in January, and was told nothing had changed with the formulation. Now I’ve lost complete trust after reading this brushed over statement about the ‘test results’.
I just went to my NP Doctor 2 days ago (she treats allergies etc) and with all my pills she tests them first to see if I’m allergic to them. I gave her my new erfa prescription and she tested me and said I had an allergy to them and shouldn’t take them. Then she tested the old ones and said they were fine, and both of us were scratching our heads as to why this would be happening. Now after reading what has happened to everyone else, it makes sense! I’m fortunate to have 1 week of the old erfa left, and I’m hoping it gives me enough time to switch over to another brand. I’m not waiting around for them to fix it, they have lost me as a customer!
Heather, that is good information to know about the allergy testing by your NP of the new and old ERFA. Not that I needed confirmation to know that there is some ingredient or ingredients in new ERFA that are causing reactions and hypo symptoms for some people. How many?
I had the same thing done … the 125mg (new pills) were “toxic” for me according to the testing done. However, old 30mg tablets were fine (with optimum dosing at 4 of those for 120mg). I’ll be out of the 30s in about a week though, and have no idea what to do after that.
I’m not surprised by Dr. Knafo’s letter. After all, should ERFA admit that anything is amiss, they open themselves up to a huge liability. It’s always about the $$$, isn’t it?
I actually expected to hear from ERFA that the T4/T3 concentrations were all okay in the suspect batches. That may be so – but there is no information about the other raw product – and the possibility of toxins/contamination with that. That’s where I think the problem stems from.
And here’s another theory of mine: I have been diagnosed with Celiac Disease just recently and my symptoms all got worse with my first bad batch of ERFA around the first of the year. I read yesterday that sometimes a medication can “trigger” latent celiac disease into full-blown “bomb going off” celiac. This appears to be what happened to me because of BAD ERFA.
We know from the medical literature that there is a strong connection between celiac disease/gluten intolerance and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. I would encourage every person who has been negatively affected by the BAD ERFA to have a blood celiac panel done as well as genetic testing. I can recommend Enterolab’s genetic test.
Janie, I sincerely thank you for being the thyroid advocate who has been unafraid to blog about this and attempt to help those of us who have suffered such a health setback. Sadly, just as I know it was with the 2009 Armour fiasco, there are folks out there who have gotten sick from the BAD ERFA and don’t know there is a problem. Furthermore, I suspect that as these bad batches get into the market, there will be more reports from patients.
Me, I’ve switched to another brand of desiccated thyroid after being on ERFA since 2009. I don’t think I’ll be going back to ERFA. Integrity is important to me – and for this company to say nothing is wrong – well that’s a lie – and a life-threatening lie to we patients who depended on ERFA. Good riddance to them – and although I’m not ordinarily mean-spirited, I’m hoping their company goes down in flames…
Karen, all the rest of the NDT’s work, but each person might have their favorites. NP Thyroid appears to be very successful—it’s made like the old Armour and you can do it sublingually. WP Thyroid has the least fillers and you can do it sublingually. Naturethroid is also still successful—you can’t do it sublingually very well, though, if that is important to you.
Hi, I’ve been reading but not commenting because my pharmacist is still using one of the old bottles, as far as I can tell from the pictures of the pills, and will be for a while longer.
But I wonder, Janie, if you’d let us know in Canada what other brands are available here, if there are any. I’m in a Google search right now, but it’s not looking fruitful so far; and my pharmacist says Erfa is the only NDT available here. I hope you can prove him wrong too!
Thank you for all the newsletters, all the work on our behalf.
Hi Thea,
I too am in Canada and Janie suggested to google Thyrogold and will do that but my pharmacist said they can compound natural thyroid hormone. Go to the first post on this situation that Janie created and there is a link to other options and in that list gives the guidelines for what to watch out for when ordering compounded formulation.
Good luck to us all!
Seconding Thea’s request, any info on alternatives available in Canada would be greatly appreciated.
I’m sorry that Erfa is not taking this as seriously as they should, I am certain there will be a significant drop in sales now for them. It would be a different case if there was effort to pinpoint the difference, acknowledge it, and correct it. But I am not willing to even give benefit of doubt anymore and will not return to the brand in the future … it’s a trust issue now as well. My problem is, what the heck do I replace it with? I never felt well on synthoid, felt great on Erfa Thyroid until 6 weeks ago, and feel like I am out of options.
I am devastated by this. I live in the Uk and ERFA thyroid is the only medication I have felt well on. The last 3 months has been hell and I am ill again. When oh when will drug companies start putting people’s health before their profit margins. It’s a disgrace to suggest that all these people who have complained about the return of their ill health are somehow imagining it. It cannot be a coincidence!!!
I will now lose months of my life again whilst searching for another NDT that I can take. I’ve already tried 4 different ones and the side effects are awful. I had such faith in ERFA. I feel such an idiot now.
I’ve been wondering why I’m so exhausted all the time. I switched to Erfa when Armour shortages made it impossible to get my scrips filled. What a difference it made.
Now, come 2 pm I can hardly lift my head it feels so heavy. It seems they’ve changed their manufacturing. Yeah, that’s what Forrest Labs said too.
Great, I guess that means I’m going to be changing the brand I buy. I’d be elated that I finally figured out why I’m so exhausted all the time again but I’m too tired to care. I’ll find something new and the bustards’ll do it again and blame the exhaustion on me because it’s always the patient’s fault.
I think this is a really disappointing response. I take real offense that Dr Knafo does not seem to realise that he is talking to many experienced users of their product – Erfa Thyroid -I absoloutley know that what i am experiencing without doubt is a re-emergence of my thyroid symptoms -these are not due to some other ’cause!’ Shame on Erfa for not taking us more seriously.
My GP has offered to get the tablets tested over here in the UK -am now tempted to do so. frankly the upshot of all of this is loss of faith in the company themselves -who is going to trust a company who blames the patient as having ‘individual needs’ whilst acknowldeging they have had 70 compaints!!!
Their sales may have tripled inthe last year but what goes up comes down when you don’t take patients complaints seriously.
I as many others will move across to another NDT that is effective and importantly reliable -am not prepared to carry on gaining masses of weight, be consitpated, crashing after a little exertion exhausted for days, swollen ankles, swollen tongue, dry blurred eyes, indigestion, dry skin, inability to think straight with my hair falling out. Dr Knafo these are classic Hypothyroid symptoms in case you are not aware – there is nothing more mysterious or ‘individual’ than that!! Good effective thyroid treatment will resolve these symptoms as you well know! What a very sad day…..
Great post, Waveylines and yes, this is sad. The re-emergence of thyroid symptoms has been extremely common with many intelligent and informed patients worldwide, and the vast majority of the reports aren’t pointing to a cortisol or iron problem. They are pointing to a change in the pill itself…whatever that change has been. Yes, it’s a sad day for all of you who trusted and appreciated Erfa Canada…
waveylines, please consider taking your GP up on his/her offer to run tests on the new and old ERFA. I would love to get to the truth of the matter somehow! Thank you.
Hi Diane. I will ask my GP 2 to get my tablets analysed – I have some from both the last 125g lots. None from the ones I felt well on. Today I feel so ill all I can do is lay down. I feel so angry as I have no option but to carry on taking Erfa until I can another brand to switch to.. Dr Knafo when you say there is no correlation between the lots how come I have had three people on the same lot as me contacting me to say how ill they feel. All of us on the 125 gramme tablets. I have no option now but 2 get myself signed off sick from work. Also why haven’t you answered my last three emails when you have told us to contact you if we still have concerns?
Dr Knafo we need this resolving not ignoring.
Hi Dianne,
I will take my GP up on his offer to test the tablets -I feel so terrible I can’t go on like this, I slept for hours yesterday and am in so much pain – am desperate to swtich. I feel like I am not on thyroid meds at all. I bumped my dose up 1 & 1 /2 grains yesterday -made no difference. I have tablets from the last two batches of 125g…..I was going to ask him if he would check not only the T4/T3 but also the content. Last time I reacted like this I was on Armour when they changed the formulation and increased the cellulose…..I can only think there is a change in the fillers/procssing that clearly Dr Knafo is not yet aware of. Somethig is definately not right!
I’m sorry you feel so terrible, waveylines. There are no words to describe how disasterous and unforgiveable this ERFA… fiasco has been. I also feel there has been an ingredient(s) change. Thank you for asking your GP to test the ingredients for us. Let us know what they find.
I have been on Erfa for many years and did great up until this last year. I couldn’t figure out why all my hypo symptoms came screaming back. I got brain fog, chronic fatigue, myalgias, constipation, etc. The list goes on and on. I had not heard that Erfa had been reformulated until today. Now it all makes sense.
I have already switched from Erfa a couple months ago to Naturethroid Pure and already feeling better.
Julie, you are an example of those thousands out there who are cited as not having complained yet….but it’s probably because they don’t even know what has gone on…yet…or they are still on the old Erfa. 🙁
Hi. Julie. Could you please be so kind as to tell me a bit more about the product you switched to? I’m not even familiar with the name. I’ve been taking Erfa 125 mg. for several years. I have some left in the bottle (refilled Nov. 2013), but I need make a plan – now – for what I’m going to do when these are used up, and I need to do it fast! I live in the US, near Los Angeles. Any suggestions/advice you can give me would be appreciated. Thank you!
Your opinion on armour desiccated thyroid 30mg plus, .75 synthroid. Is there a better T3 med on the market in canada that is more reliable. Your comment is much appreciated. Thank you Evelyn
If different tablet presses have been used, there is a possibility of the new tablets being firmer, harder, which could influence the absorption. Especially when not taken sublingually. This is something that the retesting of the tablets can’t reveal.
I’m not convinced it’s simply an absorption issue. I did a trial and added a 1/2 grain to my usual compounded NDT dose and immediately felt a reaction (pain) to it.
I was on Erfa for over 5 years and jumped threw all the red tape to get it sent here in the US as well pay all out of pocket on top of it all! I did this because I LOVED how I felt on it. I am so disappointed in the company to say the least. I knew this was coming. I have already gone through the new process of changing to WP Thyroid in the states instead. I actually picked them up today! I will start them tomorrow!! =) Instead of paying over $100 dollars and waiting weeks, I got me new script for $28 in TWO days! WOW! I guess when sales start to drop maybe then Erfa will take notice. I now no longer recommend Erfa. What a shame!!
Tiffany – did you order WP online or pick up in person? Did your insurance cover it? I’m looking into this myself, and looking for any information I can find. Thanks!
Tiffany, my situation is almost identical to yours. I live in the US — near Los Angeles. Can you tell meore about the WP Thyroid product you switched to? I have been taking Erfa 125mg. Any info you can provide would be very appreciated. Thank you!
I had heard about the ERFA situation from your excellent site. So I switched to NP Thyroid before ever refilling my next ERFA order. Since then I have been feeling great and I am saving about $40/month. I should have done it sooner!
When I advised my pharmacist of the change in your “Thyroid” pills he told me that “ANY” change to a drug, not just the formulation but the actual compression of the pill or the coating of a pill warrants a direct notification from the manufacturer to them so they can advise their customers. You have offered different explanations Dr. Knafo to different people at different times during this process, no formula change just the manufacturing facility, no formula change just a new machine compressing the tablets, and to a pharmacist themselves, no formula change just a supplier change and it is clear that you have added a coating of some sort and that is a CHANGE! So to say that it must be those individuals and other issues is a crock and a cop out.
With great fear I am about to start a batch of your new shiny pills and if I start to feel worse than I already do then you will have lost me as a customer and my mother as well.
Shame on your company for not taking responsibility for this disaster.
Absolutely I want to see the testing that was done.. I hope that it did not begin and end with a comparison of T4 and T3 concentrations. Suggest that the batches where problems were reported be tested via some sort of mass spectrometry (High Resolution, Gas Chromatograph, or Liquid Chromatography) for organic consituents as well as testing for heavy metal contamination. While my labs were not an issue, I visited my primary care physician twice with symptoms that dissipated when I changed form the “new” ERFA to Nature-throid. An important note to be made is that only about 25% of a given customer demographic will take the time and trouble to complain. So the actual number (and I believe I read around 170+ comments) for those having problems is likely far greater. Knafo is a class act, but ERFA is not digging into this the way that they should, IMHO. Both Knafo and his company need to realize that the increase in sales is likely to become a decrease with the loss of STTM endorsement as well as the endorsement of long-time, experienced NDT users.
Thank you, Janie..I sent the above to Dr. Knafo on the 12th and have yet to receive a response. Please let us know if/when you get the actual results of testing that ERFA is saying they have done.
I have some from Oct ’13 and got a new batch from March ’14, which I haven’t taken yet. They look the same, no blotches or shininess. Fingers crossed, but I am already thinking of what I will switch to!
I have been taking Thyroid by Erfa for 10 years. I think I know by now whether it is working or not. It is not working now. I am done fooling around with my health. I am making other arrangements. I do not intend to crash to prove a point. You are going to lose many customers – not just me.
It’s such a shame… I was so happy to finally get my doctor to prescribe me some Erfa and now I have to switch to another medication. It goes without saying that we don’t have tons of options in Canada for NDT. I hope we’ll hear more from Dr. Knafo. Thank you so much for the update.
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1,293 Responses to “Part II: Erfa Canada says new thyroid pills are fine: Thyroid Patients worldwide exclaim HOG WASH!!”
Hugo
I know there is no single answer. If T4 only doesn’t work. is it better to try a Syntroid/Cytomel or NDT?
Janie Bowthorpe
Either. And this is still the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal/
Narda
Jan 2024, Canada – been taking Erfa 30mg (3tabs/day) for a few years now .. I’ve been unsure for some time but now I believe something else has changed in these pills: I used to always dissolve them under my tongue; fast and efficient.
The last few prescriptions take forever to dissolve, but worse than that – I get the ‘stupid head’ feeling after taking them, and the feel and taste of the sugar/sweetener is gross.
Also, there are literally pieces of (thyroid!) once the tablet is finally dissolved. WTH?
Anyone else having this experience?
Janie Bowthorpe
Patients have reported over the years that Erfa seems to change here and there.
Thyroid Medications for hypothyroidism (NDT, T3, etc) - Stop The Thyroid Madness
Is Armour working…or not?
Janie Bowthorpe
Read the latest blog post.
Gia
Is there any updated information about ERFA? I was on the old formulation of Armour and did amazing until the reformulation in 2009. I was hoping ERFA may be similar to the old Armour formulation.
Was the issues with ERFA just limited to certain batches?
Thank You!
Margaret Del Castillo
i TOOK SYNTHROID FOR OVER 20 YEARS I HAD DIARRHEA EVERY DAY I HAVE BEEN ALLERGIC TO MILK ALL MY LIFE, WHEN I CPOMPLAINED ABOUT THE LACTOSE ALL I WAS EVER TOLD WAS TAKE METAMUCIL WHICSH MADE THINGS WORSE FOR ME. I DECIDED TO CHECK THE ABBOTT LABS SITE PAGE AFTER PAGE SAID NOTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DOCTORS PAGE AND THE INGREDIENT LIST SHOWED LACTOSE. I ASKED MY DOCTGOR IF HE KNEW THAT AND HE SAID NO, ERFA HAD JUST COME INTO OUR AREA AND SO AGAINST HIS WISHES HE PRESCRIBED THEM, EVERYTHING WAS GREAT AND THEN I GOT DIARRHEA AGAIN DR KNAFO WAS GONE AND THE NEW DIRECTOR WAS A WOMAN SHE TOLD ME ERFA ALWAYS HAD LACTOSE, I TOLD HER THAT WASN’T TRUE. ANYWAY THEY ARE OFF THE MARKET HERE IN WINNIPEG COSTCO WON’T CARRY THEM ANYMORE EVEN IF THEY COME BACK SO I TALKED MY NEW DOCTOR INTO HAVING THE DRUG STORE MAKE THEM FOR ME, SHE COMPLIED. I AM NOW INTO THE 8TH MONTH AND FEEL GREAT. THEY GOST $ 1.84 EACH BUT IT IS WELL WORHT IT, I DID NOT GO TO ANY GATHERINGS FOR 10 YEARS WORRYING ABOUT HAVING THE RUNS. NOW I AM FREE AND GO EVERYWHER UNAFRAID.
Mary Huber
I took Armour Thyroid for many years until Forest Lab… (I believe) Changed the ingredients… NO MORE T3!! I Am suffering now from many conditions. I changed to ERFA Thyoid 10 years ago. Im MUCH worse. I rrecently changed to Thyrovanz.. Hoping this will be my magic fix !
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Mary. Armour still has T3. The key to making most NDT’s work is being OPTIMAL, not just “in range”. We also need to have optimal iron and optimal cortisol to successfully raise NDT to find our optimal dose. It’s all explained here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Kim Pasacreta
I started taking Armour in 2010 I lost weight, felt so much better I bought it directly from my Naturopath. Then when the Naturopaths were able to write prescriptions I was put on Efra it was ok in the beginning. But I have regained all my weight back, I feel slow & depressed. I totally believe that they changed the formula.
So what do we Canadians use if we have to use something?
Can we get NP Thyroid from the USA?
Janie Bowthorpe
Have you tried raising it? Optimal puts the free T3 towards the top part of the range and free T4 midrange. Both.
If worse comes to worse, there is being on the two synthetics until optimal.
Ginette Scullion
Can I get Armour, or another good NDT from the US ?
Dean
Sure np for me to email you Nohan, just let me know hwo?
Nohan
Hi Dean, I’m in Canada and if it’s ok with Jane, you can email me.
Thanks,
Nohan
dean
Thank you Janie I will join that group also, didnt know it existed till now and glad it does.
Dee
Dean, I’m just wondering where you get the large bottles of ERFA, if you don’t mind saying. I’m in Canada, too. Thank you. I’m also in the FB FTPO Canada group.
Dean
Hi Dee, I send my prescriptions to Haber’s compounding pharmacy in Toronto, cause it used to be much cheaper than in Quebec but now the prices seem to be the same in every province. But i think every pharmacy can order a years supply with a doctors script. It would cost me 150$ shipped to my house for 1 year 750 2 grains tabs, now its close to 500$.
If you know of another place to order that cheaper pls post it.
Thank you,
Dean
Dee
Thanks for the information Dean. I’m really not sure of prices elsewhere because I haven’t been on any thyroid hormones for over a year now. I’m doing this unmedicated for the time being, and it ain’t pretty. 😉 I’m also in the FB FTPO group, but haven’t checked it in quite awhile.
dean
Hi everyone, I’ve been on Erfa Thyroid for 13-14 years, my dose has stabilized at 4-4.5 grs I take it all in the morning between 7-9:30 am, I break it up and let it melt under my tongue in small pieces.
I have’nt noticed any change in its effectiveness and I order it for the year in one big bottle always. I have gone through the different formulations of it and I don’t seem to be affected in a negative way by it.
Only thing i did’nt like was the price shooting up 300%.
I live in Mtl,Qc, and over here its extremely hard to find a doctor to dose you properly they all go by the tsh test which doesnt work for me cause I’m at 0.02 tsh.
My question is where can I get other types of desiccated thyroid hormone if Erfa becomes much harder to find?
And does anyone here have any good doctors to recommend in the greater Montreal area that prescribe Thyroid?
Hope everyone here health as I know this disease is hard to get a handle on.
I have Hashis, I am 55 years old, and feel good considering.
Thank you,
Dean
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Dean. If no one responds here, I would recommend joining the Facebook FTPO Canada group. Everyone there is in Canada and could provide the best info. Note that the admins have to see either your wall posts or friends list on your facebook page to know you aren’t a spammer. Once you are approved, you can close all that back up if that’s desired.
Wendy
Hi there, I can’t seem to find the Canadian thyroid group on Facebook – does it still exist? I am taking ndt and getting it at a Rexall …. my MD is old and on my recommendation is letting me try it,..,, but he prescribes a small dose once a day. I am not thinking it’s optimal at all….. and looking for more info. thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
There are non-connected Canadian groups out there, though who knows how accurate they are. So no matter what you join, just check with STTM to make sure you get the right info or the STTM Facebook page. No, small doses don’t work. Study this page and see if you can teach your doctor…they are still way behind our knowledge: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Catherine Métayer
Hi Dean,
May I ask which doctor in Montreal prescribes Erfa? I am currently with a doctor who is insisting on me taking synthetic T3/T4, I’ve been on it for 8 months and it’s just not working. When I lived in the USA, I used to take NP Thyroid and loved it and I am thinking Erfa might be the equivalent? Thank you so much!
Rose
hi, I was on Erfa’s ND for years. I finally lost weight, everything was going back to normal. I was happy. Then they absolutely changed their formula 2 years ago, and I was vomiting and sick 24/7. Between new and old batches, taste, smell and look were changed. My old pills tasted of dry liver. The new pills were sweet and left bad aftertaste in mouth. I complained to health Canada. I have been on a rollercoaster. Now stuck on Synthroid, I have no energy gained lots of weight, and feel sick all the time. I feel like time us just wasting away.
I am in Quebec, and I must go back to ND and was looking into thyroid S. My Dr. at the Jewish General, supports me and is amazing. He is not opposed to nd and has worked with me. I mentioned going on thyroid S and the only thing he said is, are u sure u want to start all over? I said yes. I know nd is better for me. Get a referral to Dr. Trifiro in Endocrinology. He is so nice.
I see him next month, and hopefully I can get off synthroid.
Anna-Maria Nicolov
Hi Dean,I’m jumping in here a year later…. wonder if people are still having problems with ERFAetc. I discovered WP THyroid last year , after 15 years on Synthroid/SRT3, and I felt like I had my life back. Then, there was a shortage, August 2018, the company stopped making if for a while, then moved their facilities to Costa Rica I believe and the new batches are aweful. On their other product, Nature Thyroid I started huffing and puffing despite being in really good shape. It got so that climbing my house stairs to our second floor made me short of breath. The day I stopped it, i returned to normal. When WP was availble again, I was so happy, only to discover that I got very short of breath again on WP. Now I found a doctor in Kirkland, QC in the ACCESS med clinic and he doesn’t go by TSH (not many doctors in Quebec know what they are doing with thyroid). I got his name from the compounding pharmacy Pearson &Cohen in Westmount. They deliver/send all over. I am starting ERFA this morning, with a lot of reservation, after reading all these comments. Wondering if anyone has found the batches have improved over the last year.
Irina
Hi
I had my ERFA RX renewed in January of 2019, and have experienced many health problems since then. I have been on 1.5 grains (90mg) for the past 10 years, and did not have the problems I have now-high blood pressure, chest pains, exhaustion. Ended up in the emerg last month with what was diagnosed as thyroid storm,but I believe the emerg dr. did not understand that my levels were OK:TSH under .5, high free T3, with T4 in the lower range. They had me discontinue my NDT for 3 days, and then take half of my normal dose. Have yet to see an Endocrinologist, and my dr. Does not want to do anything. I have a bottle of older NDT that I am going to use to try to increase back to 1.5 grains to try and determine if there was indeed a change to the ERFA formulation. If I start to feel better again on the old meds, I will need to look for another supplier.
Janie Bowthorpe
There have been reports over the last 3 years or so about Erfa having changed. But you also seem to have a cortisol problem now causing the free T3 to go high like that and due to being underdosed for so long. It just finally hit you. 90mg is hardly ever optimal. Thus the adrenals become stressed over time.
Nohan
We are so limited for choices here in Canada, but some of my friends and family here are just getting the Thailand stuff of a Facebook page and are quite happy with it….and apparently the delivery is fairly quick…so I’d say that is the best route….and I still maintain that Erfa changed the ingredients the day they purchased the company…
Nohan
I think a lot of people have moved on to other sources….
Elina
I used synthroid for more than 20 years, but started feeling terrible again more frequently even with normal blood results. Then I found out that I have Hashmoto and low vitamin D so two days ago I started taking 50,000 of vitamind D and switched from Synthroid (125 mcg) to ERFA (2 pills of 60mg). No idea yet if it will work but I am scared about the lack of consistency of the ERFA and my lack of options as I live in Canada. Any recent news or feedback on that?
Janie Bowthorpe
What I notice is that there are “less” comments about Erfa not doing as well. But can’t say that’s due to it being better, or people lowering their expectations, or people raising it higher than they did before. We do still get a few bad comments about it.
Dee
It’s possible that there are fewer bad comments on ERFA because people have given up on it… I know I have. Well, make that, I hold out 1% hope.
Rose
I agree, I moved on and I am sure everyone else who was ill from new formulations had to move on, so the lack of comments might be due to people changing scripts.
tyrafenn
Hi, Elina. Don’t know if this suggestion might be helpful or not but I have a Canadian friend who has to get her thyroid NDT compounded instead of taking Erfa. It has been a while since we discussed it but I think she was allergic to something in Erfa or has a bad reaction to it? And this reaction was happening a long time before Erfa switched mfg facilities.
Janie Bowthorpe
By the way, Elina, I hope you have studied what optimal is, even with Erfa and if it will work. It’s explained in the green graphic here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Dee
Did Health Canada ever come back with the test results of the ERFA tablets? First mentioned here in April 2016, I believe… Thanks.
Lydia M
I think the results were normal otherwise we would have heard about it !
I’m quite reassured about that. Erfa works very well on me for 5 years now 🙂
Jenny Blue
I’ve been using ERFA bought from Inhouse Pharmacy shipped to the UK because I dont need a script (cant get one anyway) and have been mostly doing far better than any of the other meds available without a script…just checking my last order details on the website and notice all strengths are now discontinued. As there was some mention earlier of there being a potential shortage of porcine thyroid, I wonder if anyone knows anything more about this atall. I realise there has been quite a bit of controversy surrounding this brand in recent years and wonder if they are reformulating finally, or if it has been permanently withdrawn…I will be seriously in trouble if I cant get any once my current supply runs out…all other brands made me ill.
Janie Bowthorpe
We are not seeing other brands have shortages, so I doubt it. Erfa is being secretive as to what might be going on. Since you react to all other brands, I would sure find out if cortisol or iron are problematic and you don’t realize it…
Patti G
I order Erfa from UDS in Canada (having problems too, BTW, like I had after Amour changed their formulation), and the last order a month ago was triple in price. Did some research, found that there has been an ongoing catastrophic (more or less) virus killing piglets in the U.S. No one has much of a handle on it yet, and as it has continued, porcine thyroid has become less available. Hence the sudden rise in price.
Rose
Hi Janie, Erfa told me over the phone that they had a shortage. They said this was the reason for inflating the price. They said they now were supplying the USA, and some European countries, and had a shortage of porcine to supply everyone. They were very strange with me over the phone because I reported them to Health Canada. They definitely have lied to me numerous times, so they are hiding something and there were changes in their stories. I know that supplying outside of Canada may not be legal- and shortcuts were possibly taken to meet demands. I am surprised with Health Canada. They did not get back to me. I will touch base with them again. It’s possible they were fined and everything was made to be swept under the rug.
Jara-Lynn
Erfa Thyroid, under the umbrella name Forest Pharmaceuticals Canada. which at one point you were re-directed to Allergan’s site on the internet.
Yep, Allergan who is response for the manufacture of Thyroid and who exercised a 300% price hike, continues to have shortages as we are seeing right now!
Thyroid, a drug once covered by OHIP and then de-listed because the price hike could not be justified!
If you do your own sleuthing, you would see how crooked Allergan is.
Janie Bowthorpe
Jara-Lynn, can you provide proof that Erfa was or is under Forest? It doesn’t sound right other than an opinion. We want to stick with facts here. So proof would help.
Adam
Hello Janie,
Have you ever seen people who have a suppressed TSH, FT3 exactly at the upper limit of the range, but the FT4 a little below the limits of the range with ERFA and no problem with RT3? I have been using ERFA for 2 years and my FT4 does not go up, while my FT3 is still on the top of the range. All my iron tests (4 tests) are optimal according to your book and the saliva tests for cortisol are also optimal? I am in Canada, so I have no choice but ERFA. I feel a little better than with Synthroid, but I never lost weight with ERFA.
Thank you
Adam
Janie Bowthorpe
What you are describing is called pooling, which means you have an iron or cortisol issue. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
Adam
Thank you Janie
Jenn
I do the same thing…tsh is suppressed but free t3 is always in the middle and free t4 is on the low end of the ref range. I have never had my rt3 checked but i will ask next time. I have non classic congenital adrenal hyperplasia and do not make much cortisol, i make more androgens instead (high testosterone levels). Could that be my problem too? I am on 4 grains of erfa a day. TIA
Jenn
Janie Bowthorpe
Your frees sound more like you need a raise, but we learned how important it is to check RT3 before doing so, as a high RT3 can mess up the frees, too.
Jenn
thanks! i will have him check that before doing anything! I am 46 with some hormonal issues too (hot flashes, weight gain,etc)…i just want to feel halfway good again 🙁
No I want to feel 100% good again!!
Ellen
Ok Janie. I will look into this. I ordered a cortisol saliva test. Two things have happened to me lately. I wonder if they are exacerbating thyroid problems. I am wearing braces to correct a bite – a long story but I have very bad jaw joints – deformed actually some of the problem stemmed from a bite imbalance. Wearing braces causes a lot of strain on my head with headaches and neck aches and seems to even cause imbalances in the muscles of the body. 2) I was exposed to mold and had to move because of it. It was a very difficult experience in which I became very sensitive to mold. Even after I moved some of my things have mold dust in them. My chest is much improved and I use ionizing air purifiers. Would those life events somehow cause the situation I\’m in now?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Ellen. Not sure about the braces and the problems they caused, but mold can cause the T4 to start converting to RT3, plus adrenal stress.
Ellen
New-found info. based on my symptoms. Background: Switched to Naturethroid from ERFA few weeks ago because I thought something was off with ERFA. After 2 weeks I know it\\\\\’s my body reacting differently than it ever had before. I read about people becoming reactive to T4. I\\\\\’ve only ever taken NDT (never synthetic T4) but I think it\\\\\’s possible it\\\\\’s not working for me too well anymore because of the T4. I just got some blood work done but haven\\\\\’t got the results back yet. MD ordered reverse T3. I am going to go to a different MD through. I found him through T3 only yahoo group – Dr. Michael Morris.He doesn\\\\\’t live too far from me. I hope he\\\\\’s ok. I also bought a book about T3 by Paul Robinson – what a pain he takes it exactly same time – 4X a day.
So I don\\\\\’t think ERFA is a problem. It\\\\\’s a change in me and I have to figure it out. Have been having hypo symptoms on ERFA and still having them currently on Naturethroid – constipation, low energy, depression, temp. that at its highest won\\\\\’t go above 98. I\\\’m not sure about the T4 problem but could be. Sucks.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ellen, it’s not about becoming reactive to T4. It’s that you may now have either low iron or a cortisol problem, for one. Either can cause T4 to start converting to more and more RT3. And the reason you may not have done well on the switch from Erfa to Naturethroid is because Erfa became less effective, yes, but the same amount of Naturethroid could have been too strong, and could be revealing issues with iron or cortisol. Start here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol
Nohan
Hi, ya, I’m happy with them. They are an old Vancouver compounding pharmacy and Dr. Thorpe is the one to talk to….very knowledgeable…..so you might want to phone him with questions. It’s easy, once set up, I just phone for a refill and it’s mailed promptly.
Good Luck,
Nohan
PS I maintain that when Erfa first purchased the company from Parke Davis or whoever, the quality was lost….as I was on the original stuff and never had a problem….they are untrustworthy in my opinion
https://krippspharmacy.com/
Jenn
Thanks so much Noahn. I thrived on erfa when I first started it just like when i first started armour prior to 2009. I am in the US so I hope that won’t make a difference.
Jenn
Rene
Dear Janie, Nohan, and Jenn…. what have you switched to then since the original armour thyroid and original erfa have been both reformulated? I am trying to find a good substitute myself… thanks for your ideas and insight! I have had a total thyroidectomy so supplementation to me is super critical, and I have been suffering with hypo and hyper symptoms both over the last year or two when it became unavailable and on a shortage. They too denied to me there was any change and I order it from NorthwestPharmacy.com in Canada. I know better, I’ve been on thyroid meds since my early 30’s and I am now age 54. I started with synthroid, then armour thyroid, lastly erfa thyroid. As a last resort the last month or so I have been taking my thyroid sublingually…. I take it in 3 divided doses throughout the day, a total of 5-6 grains.
Nohan
Hi,
I’m using compounded thyroid from New Zealand sold through Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver. I get 120 – 60’s for about 100.00 plus 6.00 shipping. They say that they ship all over the world.
Jenn
Nohan, I am interested in the new zealand formula. I have been ordering erfa and it just isn’t doing much for me 🙁
Thank you,
Jenn
Sandra
I am in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows if there is still only Erfa’s thyroid available to us? I was sure I read on a message board somewhere of another dessicated thyroid prescription product. If anyone knows the name, please share.
With all that is happening and now a triple in price of Erfa, can we not lobby to allow other brands into our country and why has there been an incredible increase that is going to prevent those on limited incomes from buying it? How can they get away with this?
Ellen
Just figured out that currently on ERFA I have symptoms of hypo. I’ve been taking ERFA 3 1/2 gr. for a good 6-8 months. I’m going to switch at this point – go to the MD and take the one he sells which is either Naturethroid or Westthroid. I never know if it just me and body stresses or if it’s the ERFA underperforming but I’m suspicious. Been more angry, moody and just took my temp and it’s too low. Drats.
Janie Bowthorpe
I don’t blame you for changing brands. There have just been too many reported problems with Erfa not to suspect it. I would personally also make sure iron is where it should be….too….just in case.
Ellen
First day on Naturethroid yesterday. Felt so much better – MD told me to just switch and take same amount as what I was taking. But I was having symptoms of hypothyroid on ERFA even though having gone to 4 gr. I don’t actually know what my true dosage is. I was buzzed last night like coffee and could not sleep half the night. This am – tired. I took 1 1/2 gr. and will try going down to 3 gr. instead of 3 1/2 and make sure to take 2nd dose not too late – I usually like 1:30pm. OR SHOULD I START OVER? I’ve been on ERFA for years.
Janie Bowthorpe
We all have to guess, but your idea of going down to 3 grains sounds good.
Ellen
Yup! That’s what I’m going to do. I have always had to have courage and figure it out – with the help of this site! Thank you for your feedback 🙂
Jenn
Oh wow,this sounds promising!! I may get my dr to switch me naturthroid!
Jenn
Dee
I spoke to a pharmacist last week who said there is another porcine thyroid shortage and that’s why it’s so hard to get and the prices are so high as a result. Maybe that’s why they can’t order the larger sizes of new ERFA right now. Another pharmacist I spoke to said that some of the thyroid hormone producers were shut down because of low quality product. Not sure if this was just producers in the US or in other thyroid-hormone-producing countries as well – and this is just what I heard so I can’t verify this – and maybe I shouldn’t pass that along… BUT, from personal experience, since old ERFA has stopped being produced, I haven’t been able to find an alternative ndt that agrees with me.
pat
Same here Dee… Something has changed for sure. I have tried them all and hypo symptoms returned. I would alternate as I tried each new NDT. Each time I tried a new brand and got sick I’d go back to taking my “old” erfa tabs and instantly symptoms would subside. My Doctor noticed the problem as well. Now all my “old” erfa is gone and the new “ERFA” is crap and I am stuck taking Nature-throid which was the least offensive but still just does not compare to “old” erfa. No one I personally know seems to be feeling like they used to before all these changes started taking place. My doctor told me all her patients including herself are feeling it and she doesn’t have the answer…
Janie Bowthorpe
Pat, I used to be on the old Erfa, and am still doing just as well on NP Thyroid. Make sure you are optimal on Naturethroid, which may be a different amount than when you were on the old Erfa.
Jen
My pharmacy can still order Thyroid ! It’s just that erfa doesn’t sell the big size anymore. I think pharmacies had the choice before between the 100 and 500 sizes (not sure for the quantities)
So nothing change for us 🙂
the_pan
Just phoned my pharmacy today and they told me they can no longer order Erfa Thyroid… so they are still working on reforming it. Other than Thailand sourced NDT what are our options? Seems sketchy considering we don’t know all the ingredients with some of them and with others they have aluminum. Nutri-Meds looks good but my brother thinks ordering anything online won’t make it across the border anyway. A compounding pharmacy would be a last resort for me because I don’t look forward to convincing my DR I need it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Thyrogold. 🙂 Or adding T3 to that T4.
the_pan
But have any Canadians reported success gettin Nutri-Med or Thyrogold across the border? Would also be great if anyone can give me reliable sources for purchasing the Thailand brands (for back up).
Janie Bowthorpe
Find others to talk here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others
Dee
Well that’s interesting that your pharmacy can no longer get ERFA. Is it your understanding that ERFA may be having problems selling their newly formulated Thyroid and that they may be going back to the old formula?
Also about Nutri-meds and Thyrogold, I’m in Canada and have had no issues getting either one shipped to me. I do have issues with the extra ingredients in ThyroGold, though, but I may be one of the few. I have some older stock Nutri-meds from when they were selling porcine from New Zealand, but they can no longer get the porcine or the bovine from their old supplier, so they have switched to a bovine formula with added ingredients. Plus, most people find Nutri-meds isn’t very strong.
Please let us know about the ERFA, thanks.
Kate
Thanks Janie:-)
Anna
About Thai NDT: there is a fairly new drug simply called TR by TMan Pharma (first reports about it are from late 2015). It has a thin sugar coating which is said to make the pill dissolve in the lower intestine rather than in the stomach, meaning more thyroid hormone will potentially be absorbed by the body as it’s not destroyed by stomach acid…this sounds almost too good to be true. I’d be interested to know if anyone has tried this brand and what your impression is? Also, which brand is the best as far as the other two are concerned: Thyroid-S or Thiroyd? Both have been getting great reviews online for years, but I am not sure about all the fillers and binders in Thyroid-S…I’m especially worried about aluminium and its long-term use (as this is going to be a life-long treatment in my case). On the other hand, it’s said to contain a slow-release agent making it last longer in the body…any input welcome as I have decided not to go down the Erfa road.
Kate
I’d also be interested in other people’s opinion as I am currently hesitating between the three brands of NDT. They’ve all got great reviews, although TR not so many (yet) as it has not been available that long…like others, I am not too crazy about the aluminium and other fillers in Thyroid-S but, having said that, it does seem to work great. I have hardly found any negative reviews online, although it has been around since Armour was reformulated eight or nine years ago, which means it must work despite all the fillers…if anyone could tell me which brand works best for you, I’d really appreciate it. Even if Thai NDT is only a fraction of the cost of prescription NDT, I’d still prefer to order a brand many people can vouch for.
Janie Bowthorpe
They all work based on the reports we get from people using them. The fillers are a concern, but at least they work.
Janie Bowthorpe
There are reports from people the last year or so who are very pleased with TR. Same with Thyroid-S and Thiroyd.
Linda Osmond
I am wondering where things stand with ERFA now, from reports. I remember the Armour disaster, and it was this site that allowed me to tell my doctor and pharmacists what was going on! How crazy is that. The ones that are “supposed to know” had no clue. Glad I am my own advocate, but that was ridiculous.
So, I’ve been on ERFA since the Armour switch, and I really liked it. I was just going to refill my Rx for ERFA through Universal Drugstore (Canada), but for some reason, I decided to do a little research on other options. Then I read the reports here about ERFA changing. Well, I think I was probably affected but didn’t realize what it was. I, too, had to increase my dose and had terrible problems that I attributed to other factors…which they might have been due to, but now I wonder.
I’ve had various bottles of ERFA at different doses, so I went and checked a bottle of 60’s and a bottle of 30’s that I got filled 12/08/2015 but had not opened. Both filled by the same pharmacy, Altec Drug Services, Winnipeg, MB (3 year old pharmacy, I see online), same fill date, etc. However, the 30’s look like the old type, and the 60’s look more mottled and a little darker in color. I had been taking another batch of 60’s from 4-2015 fill date, and they, too, look the new type.
One thing I am also curious about — My bottles look nothing like the white ones with colored labels that I saw in the linked post. Mine are just brown Rx bottles with the Altec Drug label, stating the medication as “Thyroid (60mg)” and elsewhere on the bottle it has “ERF”. No expiration dates, as everyone is talking about. DIN: 00023949 on the 30mg. DIN: 00023957 on the 60mg. Does anything seem off-base that I described?
Now that I know about the ERFA change or problems, I’m wondering if I might want to switch, but I’d like to hear the update on what’s been going on lately. And if there is a “most-preferred” brand right now, I’d love ot hear that, too. Thanks for all that you do in keeping us informed!
Jen
Hello Linda,
I can maybe help you on 2 points.
First for the brown bottles it’s normal. Pharmacies often use their own Rx bottles instead of the official ones. No idea why. Maybe because they’re proud of their colors 😉 . Anyway don’t worry about it I receive my ERFA in that kind of bottles for years.
And concerning the “old pills” “new pills” thing, honestly I’ve noticed the difference only in the aspect. I’m responding well on Erfa since 2007 now. I have to increase my dosage every 2 years or so when I feel more hypo but I think it’s part of the hypothyroidism problem. My doctor is well informed about NDT and he changes my prescription when I need it.
Honestly if you feel good on Erfa I don’t know if you should switch… You would have to restart your treatment from the ground and it’s difficult for the body to adapt. A friend did that once and it had been very hard for her.
I hope it answered your questions a bit.
Cathy Poland
I both called and emailed Erfa about the price rise. I asked if the factory in Spain raised the price or made some changes. They said that the raw material provider from US has increased the price so much and they’re looking for another source and that there was no change in Spain, either to the product or the price.
Cathy Poland
I’ve been getting Erfa from Pharmaprix on Pierrefond boulevard, just West of St. Jean’s boulevard in West Island, Quebec. I got a bottle of 60’s (they didn’t have any 125mg’s) Oct. ’16, Exp. 11/2018 LF06221A. This week I got a bottle of 125mg expiry date: 07/2017 Lot 14G021. I don’t know why they gave me such a early expiry date this time. Maybe they’re off loading older stuff. So, that’s all I know.
Shawn
I order ERFA Thyroid from cananadian pharmacy which gets it from Accuscreen pharmacy. They don’t have stock beyond the batch that is 4/2017. If anyone has an Erfa Thyroid batch that is a good batch with a later expiration date (in 2018), please provide pharmacy details and say if they ship to USA. Thanks.
Cathy Poland
Last year when I bought a bottle of Erfa 125 mg it cost about $90. Now for the same thing, it costs over $300. Anyone know why this huge increase?
Dee
I would pay $300 if ERFA would go back to the way it was before this disaster. Having said that, the price increase is wrong. I think once ERFA realized it had such a big market beyond Canada, everything went for crap.
Rose
I have been violently ill for the last 5 days and low and behold for the 3rd time this year, it is because of a bad batch of ERFA NDT.
Here is the lot number: LF06222A EXP. 11/2018
Symptoms are: vomiting with some blood, extreme nausea that will not cease, confusion, palpitations, sweats, lack of appetite, head pains, side left pains, ringing of ears on and off, unable to stay awake and alert for more than eight hours per day.
I was given an expiraton of 05/2019, and if this fails me, I have no medication I can take left. I am seeking an alternative. I also need to know what damage was done to my body. I have written to Erfa and the Health Board of Canada. I discovered a weakness on part of Erfa that can force disclosure of new formulation, and investigation of the drug. We have to live in hopes, that this will prompt someone to take action and give us back the original formula and stop making us sick.
NOTE: the bad medication tastes of sugar at first then goes metallic and leaves dry mouth or it tastes of pure chemicals. The old medication tasted almost like liver. The old had a solid color and new has prominent speckles in it.
Dee
Rose, did you ever hear back from ERFA or Health Canada regarding investigating ERFA? I had similar bad reactions to new ERFA. I’m also taking nothing (no ndt) right now, and worried about the consequences of that, and I too live in hope that ERFA will go back to the way it was.
JENNIFER ASHER
I pray that we get answers!!!
My tsh is 0.006 but my free t3 and free t4 are mid range. My integrative dr now wants to take me down to 2.5-3 grains from 4…not happening and I am so disappointed!! I know when I am over medicated and right now I surely am not!!
Jenn
Janie Bowthorpe
That is a definite thing we learned years ago…that we canNOT be dosed by the TSH. It’s normal for it go quite low while on NDT. Sorry you have to find out that your doctor is so backwards and brainwashed by his medical school training….:(
JENNIFER ASHER
Thanks! I know that myself and I thought HE knew that too because he had seen my last tsh of .007 and said that he went by symptoms! My temp was up so he must think that I am getting too much but I was actually getting sick. I am going to call and discuss all of this and point out that my free t’s were fine…..plus my weight is up so i am not over dosed.
Jenn
DB
Just got a new bottle of Erfa 30mg, lot # LF06630A, expiry 02/2019. Anybody experiencing any problems with it?
DB
Sandra, is the product you switched to Thyroid-S?
Sandra
I find it interesting that since Oct 19th there are no comments on this page so hope that this gets published not that it makes a difference to what has happened in the past as my story is the same as those deeply affected by Erfa’s Thyroid.
Since switching to another brand from Erfa, I am feeling so much better and if I can help it will not ever use Erfa’s thyroid again. My life as everyone elses here is too precious.
Wishing everyone all the best.
DB
Sandra, is the product you switched to Thyroid-S?
Sandra
I was very disappointed with this brand. The product is very unstable from batch to batch.
It was impossible for me to get a normal life with this product, as everytime the batch changes it is a whole readjustment to make with hypo/hyper bad weeks. And finally my last batch from this brand, which was terribly weak, leads me to switch medication brand.
Kathy
I have just been prescribed Erfa lot ” LF05829A expiry: 10/18. This is my first attempt at taking NDT after 8 years on synthroid and wondering if there are still problems with Erfa?
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, there do appear to be some continued problems for some people, such as doing fine on one batch, not on the next. And Erfa continues to deny they have changed anything, even though we clearly know they have.
Sandra
Hi Janie,
So I’m confused by what folks are writing about Kripps as if it was a dessicated thyroid and not a pharmacy. I would love to know what they are taking if it works as I’m in Canada and they ship across Canada. Nohan, I would love to have you clarify for me please what you are taking.
thank you
Sandra
Has anyone had any issues ordering Thyroid-S. I placed an order tried tracing it to see when it might deliver and I couldn’t. I emailed the company repeatedly and get no reply.
Further to my hypo symptoms returning on Erfa, extremely dry skin, low grade depression, severe water retention, heart palpitations, lack of focus and concentration, easily overwhelmed. Ain’t life a barrel of monkeys sometimes!
Erfa should be held accountable.
To the lady who lives in Canada and had a prescription filled in the U.S. and she drove across the border to get it, is there any legal issues with that. I am meeting my doctor Monday to see if he will do that but think he won’t. I also would be sending my husband to get it as I don’t currently have a passport and so does he just pretend like it is his, which he can’t because it will have my name on it and so are we legally able to bring it back across the border?
Nohan
Hi Sandra,
I live in a Canadian border town and all I had to do was ask my Dr for a copy of my prescriptions and I just keep it in my purse with my passport and show them when I come back to Canada with something.
Yes, Kripps is an independant pharmacy that has been around a very long time and is well known in Vancouver for their natural/conventional products.
Kripps Pharmacy
Address: 5413 West Blvd, Vancouver, BC V6M 3W5
(604) 687-2564
I am taking compounded descciated thyroid sourced from New Zealand. I have a good Dr so he faxed a prescription to Kripps for it and I just phone them for a refill and it arrives within the week…and I am very happy with it.
Nohan
Sandra
It’s been a while since I posted, I had been on Erfa’s Thyroid for years and like everyone else no issues until they made some sort of change. I had been getting good and bad batches and bad batches meant that things went hill again so that each day is a struggle to get by. Good batches meant that I was feeling on top of the world, bring anything on I can handle it. I work full time in the interior design field with stressful deadlines and when an Erfa batch is bad then my life becomes a nightmare of worry that my productivity and creativity, will suffer and affect my job.
I recently had a good batch that I was so lucky to have been able to buy 3 months worth out of my own pocket instead of insurance coverage and it was a good batch. My old batch symptoms felt long far gone and I revelled in my new happy life but when they ran out, the new batch that I started a month a go took me down again.
The main symptoms that arise on bad batches for me is low energy, my daily 45 minute walk with good energy on bad batches become a serious struggle and I get what I call achy lungs and easily winded, no stamina to even walk a slight upgrade. My digestion becomes awful and food sensitivities increase dramatically. I want to become a hermit and have nothing to give to anyone outside of my day of work.
I have given up on Erfa and don’t know what the next step is as calling around to different pharmacy’s trying different batches out of my own expense is becoming as I have done in the past while maybe necessary is so very frustrating and costly.
I have ready this forum back into June and don’t know what folks are talking about with Dr. Kripps if anyone can clarify for me.
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Kripps is a compounding pharmacy: https://krippspharmacy.com/
Sandra
Hi Nohan,
Thank you for your reply!
Well that sounds quite simple then, so your doctor calls in the prescription and you take the copy with you so that if customs asks you have a prescription, sounds perfect. I would cross at Niagara Falls Ontario border and was wondering what pharmacy you used successfully.
Of course it sounds like the easiest is the Kripps pharmacy but of course it will be quite a bit more expensive compared to Erfa?
Nohan
Hi Sandra,
I asked my Dr to write a 4 – 60mcg prescription a day, but I am only taking 3, so 120 – 60mcg.costs me about 110.00 which includes shipping, but even being a pensioner, it’s worth it.
Hopefully your Border Guards are as nice as ours…I only use it for progesterone and peregnenolone, but I think you can just phone the border and find out the thyroid….
Nohan
Sandra
Thanks Janie!
Nohan
Hi Angie,
I phoned a few compounding pharmacies and they said they were using Erfa, so I got PO’d and never pursued it,but for awhile, I got some thyroid out of Mexico which I used until I couldn’t get anymore and then I used “T3 Only” until I heard about Kripps.
On the old thyroid (pre-Erfa) I was taking 180 mcg a day and am using the same dose of Kripps and feeling good.
For years, I have also been taking Pregnenolone and Pro-Gest E which I believe handles the stress issues.
Dr. Thorpe said that the resting pule should be < 85 and the temperature should be around 37 C around 98 F.
I guess I'm of the mind that dessicated thyroid has worked successfully for over a hundred years and didn't need re-inventing, and Kripps fills that space, but the first month I was definitely in the "unknown".
Also, IF….Efra removed some golden ingrediant from their product, which is now supplied in Kripps, I think it would be subject to the bioaccumlative effect and needs some time.
When I first went to the old Dr years ago, I had a myriad of problems and just wanted to sleep. One of the last things I said to him was "Are you telling me that this pill is going to fix all these problems?" and he said "Yes, you're going to feel a lot better in a month and you'll be back to your old self shortly after"….and he was right, but it took some time.
Take care,
Nohan
Angie
Thanks, Nohan. I’ll keep working with the Kripps dose. I have never tried prenenolone. However, have next to no estradiol without supplementing, so progesterone is out.
Angie
Hi Nohan: After experimenting with the Kripps dessicated, I found my particular batch very weak. Almost immediately body temps went down to below 97, weight gain/fluid retention, constipation…the usual suspects. I upped the dose from my usual 1 and 3/4 – 1 and 7/8 grain to 2 and even 2 plus and it was as if I wasn’t absorbing it at all, or at least not very well. Currently have what feels like a “good” batch of N-T and am doing reasonably well on that….
Janie Bowthorpe
No matter what amount you are on, do labs after being on an amount for at least 4 weeks! You need a free T3 towards the tip top of the range and a free T4 mid-range. When you’re not there, and a particular batch might be slightly off, you’ll feel it much worse.
Nohan
Hi Angie,
I was on T3 too, but did not continue with them when I started Kripps. The old Dr said that natural drugs are bioaccumlative and take time to do their thing, unlike a chemical drug which is instant, so I kinda gave myself a month “to get it right”…..but honestly, the first week or so I was uncertain as to where my dose was to end up, but at least I knew I was getting a “complete” natural thyroid replacement.
180 seems to do the trick, but it’s getting colder here, so I may increase it over the winter…
Also in the early days, I was taking my temperature and my resting pulse a couple of time a day as Dr Thorpe from Kripps recommended.
Nohan
Angie
Wow, Nohan…I felt the Kripps SRT3 right away and discontinued it. Am now just taking the compounded dessicated.Am watching my temps (which are a little higher right now, around 99.2 yesterday afternoon) and resting pulse (which is about the same for me and my usual, 66-72), I may have a “bug” as I’m achy, coughing, and sneezing, so temps may be more of a reflection of that that anything else is going on. I keep asking the question, maybe not in the right way, but how did you find the Kripps compared to other dessicateds…was it stronger, weaker, about the same? Did you have to take more, less, etc.? Thanks for your input and help!
Angie
On my Kripps meds for the 2nd day…still a little early to tell how well this will work for me, but will sure to report back. I am also very interested in hearing from people that have continued on with ERFA, as to whether (now that ERFA is a little further along in the manufacturing process) they have seen the medicine normalize back to what we were accustomed. Any reports?
Kim
Dear Janie
Thank you for your information.
I`ll do my best study.
Kim
I received ERFA Tyroid today from Hong-kong.
is this any problem?
I was just going to change to Syntyirod to NDT
The Lot no LF07082A / Exp : 05/2019
Thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
You’ll probably need to use the search function to see if anyone else typed in those numbers here, ok? Otherwise, it’s just a matter of trying it out. 🙂 Info here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Angie
Just got my Kripps dessicated and SRT3 in the mail today. Will let y’all know how I do on it. It took a while to get the ‘script filled. I did have to call and follow up on an already submitted written order before Kripps got around to filling it. Once they did, however, it came within a week from Vancouver to Virginia.
Nohan
Kripps desiccated sure turned my life around…..took some time, but worth it …Good Luck!!!
Angie
Thanks, Nohan…still trying to adjust dosage. Did you find it was stronger, weaker, or about the same as ERFA?
Nohan
Hi, good for you!!!
Years ago, I took Canada’s dessicated thyroid when it was “good”, as did a few of my friends and family, but when ERFA bought the company, it no longer worked well for any of us which was known in the first month. In fact, at that time I emailed them and specifically asked if they had changed the formula….and they said that they hadn’t…which was a blatant lie, because it was affecting all 6 of us.
I know that a lot of people from the US were using it when there was an Armour shortage and were pleased with it, BUT a lot of Canadians who were used to the original thyroid, weren’t and it was just a matter of time before others started complaining.
What I find strange is the timing around the sale to Erfa and the formula change in Armour around the same time resulted in so many complaints.
I LOVE Kripps! I played around on it for the first month and then ended up on 180 a day which works well for me and in my opinion is equal to Canada’s original thyroid.
Good Luck!!!
Nohan
Angie
Thanks, Nohan. I have just been on the Kripps dessicated all by itself (no SR T3) for a few days. I am finding that it is not quite as strong as the ERFA or the Nature-throid. I have taken 1 and 3/4 grains daily (sometimes 2 grains in winter/cold months) for years now. How did you find the dose of Kripps compared?
Reagan
I have GOT to find something else besides Armour. I had to up my dosage already, and was feeling great. Then with my last refill, I have all my symptoms back! This is ridiculous!!! And it is SO expensive!!
I’d like to try Erfa, but I’m scared I’ll be in the same boat as I am with Armour. Anyone out there using current bottles and it working fine for them?
If not Erfa, then what should I try?
Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
You are finding out what a lot of folks have on Armour since Activas bought out Forest. Something went wrong with Armour. As far as Erfa, some are still having problems with it, while others are not. It’s a dice game. I use NP Thyroid VERY successfully. Others use WP or Naturethroid with success, too. Go here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment
Dee
I’m wondering if you can do NP Thyroid sublingually? I’m not crazy about the ingredient, mineral oil, but I’m weighing my options about what to try if I finally attempt to find a source of (gluten-free) ndt outside of Canada. Thank you.
Janie Bowthorpe
I, in fact, do it sublingually.
Dee
Thanks for responding so quickly Janie. Good to know that it can be taken sublingually.
Linda Osmond
Janie, I have 2 questions for you, if you don’t mind answering. Have you (or anyone) contacted the NP Thyroid manufacturer to ask what grade of mineral oil is in their product or to discuss the concerns about contamination? I would guess food-grade, but some of the concerns online about mineral oil are about possible carcinogenic contaminants. I’d like to consider switching to NP Thyroid, as ERFA just came back in stock (30mg only, so far), and it is way more expensive again! Another price increase. I would love to learn anything more about NP and the mineral oil issue.
My second question is this: When you switched from ERFA to NP Thryoid, did you find it a pretty comparable dose going from one to the other? Thank you so much for any input!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Linda. They are required to use a pharmaceutical grade. https://bizfluent.com/info-12044319-differences-between-food-grade-pharmaceutical-grade-mineral-oil.html And it’s a very very tiny amount, remember. As far as switching, not sure if it’s comparable with the current Erfa. It was comparable before Erfa seemed to get messed up.
Linda Osmond
Thank you, Janie! Very helpful. I did send a list of specific product questions to Acella but have not heard back yet. I feel some assurance knowing that you’ve been on NP Thyroid long enough to test it out and seem to be doing well on it. Thanks so much for all that you’re doing here. It is my go-to place whenever things start getting wacky with thyroid meds and manufacturing. Very grateful for this forum and your expertise!
Janie Bowthorpe
You are very welcome!
Michelle
I have been using Erfa since Armour was reformulated back in 2010 and LOVED it. When I first read about some bad batches I didn’t think much of it as I’d had zero issues with it. However, when I reordered in January of this year I noticed the pills not only looked different but I was having trouble cutting the tablets in half in order to get my proper dosage of 1 1/2 grains. The pills would just crumble. I’ve been doing this for YEARS so knew something was obviously off but still went ahead and took them. Within a few days I started getting really itchy along my collar bone and broke out in hives. I didn’t know what was causing it at the time and thought maybe I was having a reaction to something else until about 2 weeks later I put two and two together and realized it started right after I began the new batch of Erfa. I still had enough of my old bottle left to test out my theory and within a few days of stopping the new ones the rash began clearing. I tested it out 3 separate times and each time got the same reaction so I contacted Erfa after speaking with the pharmacist who said the company should know about my reaction. Erfa denied any changes other than moving their manufacturing facility from Belgium to Spain. She said they’d had several complaints about the change in the way they look but couldn’t figure out why because the formula was the same…. sorry but you don’t break out in hives for nothing when you’ve been taking the exact same meds for years with no trouble. I even brought in my old Erfa and the new Erfa to my doctor who agreed something had definitely changed based on the way they looked and now crumbled (also showed her the hives I developed). I stopped Erfa and my doctor switched me to NP which has been okay (first tried WP but hated that). Since January I’ve attempted over a dozen times to try to take this bottle of Erfa again for a couple days and every single time I start getting itchy and then break out in hives within about 3 days. I really liked Erfa best of all the NDT brands I’ve tried so kept wanting it to work. It looks like the complaints have died down so I’m going to try to order another batch and see what happens- really hoping it was a fluke and they’ve fixed the issue by now.
Dee
I think the complaints have died down because people have decided to just give up on ERFA altogether. I was also getting by on old stock that I managed to get my hands on after reacting to the new ERFA. A couple of weeks ago I finally ran out of my old stock and decided to give new ERFA yet another try. Since the pharmacist knows of my problems with new ERFA, she agreed to loan me ONE 30 mg tablet and ONE 60 mg tablet since I react to new ERFA after taking only one and know right away if there will be a problem.
Both of the tablets look different than my old stock, but I decided to try the 30 mg tablet (the 60 mg tablet is so speckled, it almost looks grey instead of the usual white). I knew right away from the way the 30 mg tab crumbled (I take it sublingually) that there was probably going to be a problem. This time, though, after about 30 seconds under my tongue, it started to burn badly to the point where I had to spit it out. It was like I had taken a lit match and put it right in my mouth. The amount that I had absorbed would have been very tiny, but I still had a stomach reaction to it for most of the day. So I now know nothing has changed. I’m not even going to bother taking the 60 mg tablet. If it’s of any importance, the lot number for the 30 mg tab is LF04826A expiry 01/2018. The 60 mg tab is LF06221A expiry 11/2018.
It’s so depressing and infuriating that a high-quality product has been ruined by whatever happened. I have a feeling there might be something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself because I tried numerous combinations of compound ndt in the last year, and didn’t feel well on those either. But yet, I have no reaction whatsoever to the old stock (different lot #’s and expiry dates), and did great on those. So, no, I don’t believe the issues have been resolved.
Michelle
That was nice the pharmacist allowed you to have one to try it out- that way you didn’t have to waste the $ on a whole bottle of bad meds. You are right it is SO frustrating that they would mess with a good quality product and something is obviously wrong. I still have two old empty bottles with 2017 expiration dates that had no problems. The one I had rashes from is Lot #LF05809A Exp 9/2018 so right in between the two you just got.
I did go ahead and place a new order this week as a last ditch effort to see if they’ve fixed whatever is going on. If not I’m just going to give up and stick with the NP which hasn’t been bad but just not as good as old Erfa. The pharmacy confirmed they are shipping me a bottle with a 2019 expiration date so at least I know it will be one of Erfa’s newest batches. I’ll report back on what happens- really, really, really hoping it will work this time!
Angie
Thanks Michelle…please keep us posted. I have done just okay on Nature-Throid. Did NOT do well on Acella NP or WP. Am currently trying (see my comments below) the Kripps Pharmacy compounded.
Janie Bowthorpe
Cortisol levels? Iron levels?
Angie
Janie: Thanks for your interest, but I am finding that I can do just fine on some Nature-throid batches, can feel hypo on some and hyper on others. How or why would cortisol or iron issues worsen on some batches and not show themselves on others?
Janie Bowthorpe
I think you need to be open to having either inadequate iron and/or a cortisol problem. It’s just a very common reason why folks don’t do well on NDT…
Angie
Well…I think an iron or cortisol problem would be more persistent and not “fluctuate” so wildly depending upon different lots (and I always, always, always ask for the lot # of each refill and expiration date) of medicine. If you have an answer for why that might be,Janie, I am “open” to listen. I was one of the first to notice a problem with ERFA. A medicine that had not revealed an iron or cortisol problem prior, and that I had done well on for 5 years. It’s my suspicion that I do better on meds with far fewer fillers and a little higher T3/T4 ratio.
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, if you are as open as you state, take the time to be honest with any answers in doing the Discovery Steps here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info (plus more in Chapter 5 of the revised STTM book) and do all four iron labs…and compare them to the following page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values Granted, it “could” be the fillers for you. But having been doing what I do for 14 years, Angie, I see this repeatedly. i.e that what you describe is even more, and for a high percentage of people with similar problems, about either cortisol or iron.
Angie
Janie..I’m curious…why have you decided that I have an iron or cortisol problem? I’ve asked the question as to why either or both problems did not reveal themselves on the old ERFA or persist regardless of which Nature-throid batch I might have, and I don’t think I’ve received an answer. I currently have an N-T batch that I’ve done reasonably well on, and am currently adjusting my Kripps dosage, so we’ll see. I don’t think this is just about fillers”..I think this may, for me at least, be also about a little higher T3/T4 ratio, as I’ve said.
Janie Bowthorpe
It’s not a decision, just a hunch, Angie. Because people don’t normally have issues with Naturethroid, which has been a pretty consistently good product. So when people do, it usually means they in fact do have inadequate iron or a cortisol issue, which any of the better NDTs will reveal. So be open to it by doing the four iron labs, and answering the Discovery Steps on the Adrenal Info page.
wideawake
Just want to jump in on this convo. I just got the new batch of Thyroid and they def look different. Im very sensitive to any kind of meds so often I just bite off 1/2 and than only take it once or twice a week. My T3 and T4 are considered ‘normal’ now but I see more symptoms arising. I cant fall asleep or stay asleep and this is going on for months now. My eyes are drooping, lots of hair loss and dry skin. Got the whole textbook with the goiter, thanks to a doctor who told me not to worry about it in my 40’s because my numbers ‘were all normal’. So here I am, trying to do something about all this but so sensitive to all the meds. The first 3 hours in the morning after I take the NDT, I feel sleepy. Sometimes I just have to lay down. Sometimes if I take a whole NDT (30mg Thyroid), I feel good but cant sleep. Ive read through all this website a number of times and it sounds like a cortisol issue. Id love to just take the NDT and be well but its not working for me. Suggestions?? (I started taking NDT last year but not regularly because of the way it makes me feel)
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. Most of the time, when someone thinks they are “sensitive”, it’s actually reactions to have either low cortisol or inadequate iron. So the solution is to test cortisol via the 24 hour adrenal saliva test, and all four iron labs. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me 🙂
Fran
After 8 years on synthroid, past 3 months on 125 synthroid & 5 Cytomel, and never feeling well since being diagnosed I got my Dr to prescribe me NDT / Thyroid… After looking it up and reading this I am very scared. I just went and looked at my pills and they are speckled. I took my first one this morning. I already have terrible anxiety, brain “fog”, extreme fatigue and and a long list of other awful things I experience that I don’t need getting worse, I made this switch with high hopes but am now scared of what could happen! 😖 Compounded Thyroid may be better??
Janie Bowthorpe
Fran, this isn’t about moving to compounded. It’s that the NDT is revealing you have either a cortisol issue or inadequate iron. Read #2 here: https://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Fran
Thank you, Janie.
But why so many people getting sick after the denied change in Erfa Thyroid? I will ask my Dr to run those tests for me when I have my thyroid checked again in 4-5 weeks. I know my cortisol was checked by blood a while back and a basic iron test but I don’t know if they’ll check it by saliva. Hopefully. I don’t have the money to be ordering expensive private lab tests. I remember a few months ago I also asked him to run the two antibody tests associated with hashimotos and when it all came back he said everything looked fine… Does this just mean the Hashimotos is dormant?? I’ve been on the same dose of Synthroid since day 1, no jumping around. But it has to be Hashimotos that caused it doesn’t it? Happened postpartum…
Janie Bowthorpe
Fran, your first post didn’t tell me that you were on Erfa. I now see you said “Thyroid”, which is what the company calls their NDT. We got in the habit of calling it Erfa since just using the word “thyroid” could imply any kind of thyroid medication. lol.
It is okay to see if it’s just a bad batch of Erfa. Some have experienced them for sure. But you will also want to rule out if it’s also that you have an adrenal or iron problem, too. We have to cover all bases, because being on Synthroid that long often causes both an adrenal issue and inadequate iron in a large body of patients which are now revealed by being on NDT.
Nohan
Hi Fran,
Just wanted to let you know that I felt a transition period like that for the first few days and over the first month, I played with the dose using temperature and resting pulse, but now 3 months later, I not longer nap and feel wonderful.
I also take progesterone and pregnenolone.
Years ago, when I got my first prescription of desiccated thyroid, I was a mess and when I was leaving old Dr Derry’s office I said to him “Are you telling me that this pill is going to take care of all my symptoms?”
And he said “Yes, in a month you’re going to much better and shortly after, you’ll be back to your old self”.
He was right, but it took some time.
Good Luck!
Fran
Hi Nohan, thank you for your reply. Do you mean you felt a transition period when Erfa changed? Or switching from Synthroid to Erfa? I’ll have to look into how to use temperature and resting pulse.
Angela Frye
Problems with Nature-Throid batches now.
Dear Janie: Am having some fairly significant issues with occasional Nature-throid batches. A batch that I purchased around 5-20 made me so sick I could barely drag myself around. And a batch (I had some leftover) that I had plenty left of from early Mar increased my heart rate 50% on the same dose that I had previously been on. I have been on/off these batches enough times to confirm the phenomena. And no, this is not adrenal or iron related. Appears something may be going on with RLC as well. Do we have a way to contact them directly? Don’t see one on their website.
Janie Bowthorpe
Having been observing and collecting notes from patients for 14 years, I do occasionally see bad batches. But it’s very sporadic. I would find their website and talk to them. (And please be absolutely sure that your iron hasn’t gone done, or you don’t have a cortisol issue. I see SO many say they don’t, but when I look more closely at their labs, they do)
Tim H
Hi Janie,
I have an appointment to ask my doctor one last time to put me on Natural Desiccated Thyroid.
If he does not agree I will find a new doctor that will prescribe it for me.
In the event of him being agreeable what Natural Desiccated Thyroid medication would you suggest I ask him for?
I have read almost everything on your site and blog about the lack of reliability of Armour and Erfa Thyroid.
I would prefer not to get into a situation where something he prescribes does not work then we are back to square one.
I am in Canada.
Thanks,
Tim H.
Janie Bowthorpe
Any of the others have done quite well for patients. 🙂 NP, WP or Naturethroid.
Nohan
Hi Tim,
I’m in B.C. Canada and recommend desiccated thyroid from Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver….they say that they ship all over the world…and they shipped it fairly quickly to me after my Dr faxed the Rx
It comes from NZ and the best I’ve found. A woman named Alissa on the forum here was the one who graciously shared the information and I am indebted to her as this is like all thyroid should be.
Check out her posts, as she certainly did her homework.
Good Luck!
gina
Nohan please e-mail me about Kripps Thyroid. MrMooples at America online dot com.
Charis
Will you please send any information on Kripps? Thanks so much…..chariswerner@aol.com
Alissa
Kripps is easy to find: https://krippspharmacy.com/ – a google search of Kripps Pharmacy will bring it right up – they will ship anywhere. I am very happy with their compounded NDT and it’s the only place I could find that sells prescription porcine thyroid from New Zealand which means pasture raised pigs that are not fed Roundup soaked GMO feed. It is more expensive – 3X what ERFA costs in Canada (a little over $100 for 100 day supply), but after a couple months of nagging and sending notes from my Dr., etc. I did get my full 80% insurance coverage for it. Keep at them if your insurance company whines about paying for compounded meds – just keep insisting that they pay for it and keep bumping it up the food chain complaint/appeal wise. In Canada it’s no lie that there are no other options for NDT if ERFA isn’t working for you. It might be harder to get full insurance coverage for compounded NDT in the US where ether are more commercial options, but they should pay for at least some of it.
I also am LOVING compounded slow-release synthetic T3 on top of it. If anyone suspects a problem converting T4 to T3 and/or reverse T3 issues or if you can’t handle as much NDT as you think you need when you feel like you’ve done all you can with the iron and adrenals, I highly recommend giving that that a shot.
gina
Alissa I don’t know why most of my posts are not being displayed but here goes anyway – I have been in contact with pcnzltd.co.nz New Zealand’s largest compounding pharmacy and they have informed me that New Zealand does not have their own thyroid powder supplier and that they actually order it in from the united states. So if Kripps is ordering powder from New Zealand then their really getting US thyroid powder… Did Kripps give you source info?
Janie Bowthorpe
And US powder has all five thyroid hormones from the pig, by the way. Nothing is removed; nothing is synthetic. And it’s made according to the guidelines of the US Pharmacopeia. Important to lay that out there to avoid unfounded negative speculations.
Alissa
I contacted pcnzltd.co.nz too – they are not who Kripps gets their thyroid from. They have another supplier that Dr. Thorpe does not want to share and I respect that. He provided the ingredients (which is just potato or corn starch and cellulose) and the T4 & T3 levels when I asked. It’s USP whole porcine thyroid powder so it has all the various hormones – nothing has been removed. It has slightly less T4 and about the same T3 as the US powder, but no lactose which is what made me look for an alternative and I did a lot of looking around and contacted pharmacies and compounding pharmacy suppliers all over the place. If you don’t have an issue with lactose, there is probably no need to look further than the American Labs powder that’s more readily available at any compounding pharmacy.
Nohan
I had emailed a company in NZ called Agri-Lab with some questions as I was wondering about cellulose …here’s some excepts
“We have Freeze Dried Bovine Thyroid Gland available as a powder (as well as many other glandulars which are exported all over the world including to Canada”.
“Our products are bulk packed and not in a ready-to-use form — further processing, for example blending or encapsulation, and labeling, is required and is not the responsibility of Agri-lab”.
Kripps Pharmacy’s is making thyroid that is equivalent to the thyroid that was being made by Pfizer (formerly Parke-Davis) before Erfa bought it.
In my opinion, Efra is untrustworthy……after the sale, they could not get their act together to supply their customers and impacted thousands of lives as it was simply unavailable for months and months and then they produced a substandard product.
You can get lost in the extraneous details, but countless people have been searching to find a thyroid pill that works, Kripps is one and there’s more.
If Erfa isn’t can’t be trusted, just keep trying others
Personally, I don’t care where it comes form, because the endgame is to feel good and I, along with Alissa have achieved that with Kripps compounded thyroid..
tyra
Tim. I am not sure if you can get any other NDT brand but Erfa if you are in Canada. I may be wrong about that. I am confident that if anyone knows for sure, Janie would know.
I do know of a few Canadians who are allergic to some of the fillers in Erfa and have had to get their natural desiccated thyroid med/rx compounded by a compounding pharmacy. I think they said they use lysine as the filler. I think you can also use acidophilus as a filler.
If this is true (that your doctor can only prescribe or has access to Erfa in Canada), you might see if the doc can write you a prescription for ‘natural desiccated thyroid’ and write the dosage in grains instead of milligrams (gr versus mgs). One grain equals 60 or 65 mgs, depending on the manufacturer.
There are a few vendors in Canada that carry Erfa as well as Naturethroid and Armour and, if your prescription doesn’t specify a particular brand name, you might be able to get them to give you the Naturethroid instead of Erfa? That is a lot of ‘ifs’.. but I just am not sure what you can work out because of being in Canada.
Here is a link to a company that I dealt with for years and had no problem getting thyroid meds delivered to the states. They do require a prescription. You just scan and save your prescription and then send it as an attachment on an email that you send to the company after you order. You might call them and see if they can deliver Naturethroid in Canada. I know it sounds weird to question whether a Canadian company can deliver something into Canada but they often ship meds from their suppliers in other countries.
https://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/thyroid
Alissa
I don’t think you can’t buy any commercial NDT other than ERFA in Canada – I believe it’s the only one approved by Health Canada. You can get compounded NDT at pretty much any compounding pharmacy anywhere though – even if they don’t normally stock it, they probably will get it for you if you ask – every place I went would. Most pharmacies get the thyroid powder they compound from PCCC with gets it from American Laboratories – the only manufacturer in North America. All their NDT comes in a lactose base which was the main reason I went looking from something else and found the kiwi thyroid from Kripps that is in a cellulose & potato starch base.
I’m still waiting on the results of the testing Health Canada is supposedly doing on the ERFA samples I sent them. I emailed a couple weeks ago to see if there was any news and was told my samples had be sent to their lab, but the guy I’m dealing with did not have any results back yet. He assured me that he will let me know the outcome of the testing, which can take a while, and I’ll post that here whenever I hear back from them.
Dee
I keep checking back to see if Health Canada has gotten back to you with those results. I don’t know about Health Canada, though – ie. trusting *their* judgment regarding what is healthy for all Canadians – just look at their latest campaign to have Canadian ground beef irradiated for longer shelf life. Makes me wonder about them to be honest.
Alissa
I don’t have a lot of faith in Health Canada myself and was shocked they even took me up on my offer to provide samples for testing – I really did not expect anything to come out of the complaint. It will be interesting to see what they come back with. I don’t know that I would truly trust their judgment and the T4 & T3 levels is probably all they are testing. I do have enough samples of good and bad batches left to have some other testing done, but I doubt I’ll bother – it’s pretty expensive and I’m happy on something else.
At this point, I’m actually glad the ERFA quit working for me because if forced me to find something that works better than it ever did. I was in a very bad place right after a bad reaction when I made the complaint and I had been stressing about running out of the old ERFA I scored and having to try a new batch for a year and a half – I thought about it every day when I took it. I’m so glad that ordeal is over and wish I would have looked for something else sooner. I really think the compounding where you have more control over the ingredients and dosing is way better. I cut those powdery pills that turn to dust in half for years off and on depending on the dose I was taking – now I can get exactly the dose I want put in a capsule which is awesome with an added bonus of some extra vitamin C.
Suze
Any word at all from Health Canada yet? I know that the bad batches of Erfa do contain some thyroid, but it is erratic amounts – I took them for several months (deliberately to prove that I was wrong and there was nothing wrong with them) and my free T3 went way over the top of the range, while the TSH and free T4 remained moderately low which is hypo, for me. I would dearly love to get random pills from all my batches analyzed to prove their inconsistency, but I’ve looked into it and I can’t afford to pay hundreds of dollars. Because this is prescribed you would think the pharmacists and doctors would be at least concerned, but they looked at me with a glazed, blank expression like “DUH? No one else ever complained about these pills…but then not many people take them….and no, we can’t and won’t analyze them.” It’s Health Canada’s job to analyze pills that made hundreds of people sick so where are their reassurances? I have looked at their site and they list several suspicious reports, but I don’t see any warning, recall or anything at all from them and this stuff started being reported more than two years ago!!!!!!
gina
Cathy M When did you get this batch and how long have you been using ERFA?
Cathy M
Hello Gina,
I’m on Erfa for about 3 years. I bought my bottle of this batch in March.
As I said it works like before for me. I think it’s important to say it.
gina
Cathy M do the pills in your bottle look like the ones or the old ones? Do they have that porcine odor?
Cathy M
They’re shinier than before and don’t smell a lot. I prefer like this honestly…
gina
Yes I’m sure we all would prefer not to smell the stench of the NDT. Except there is a huge problem. As so clearly printed on the Armour thyroid insert. Armour “is a natural preparation derived from porcine thyroid glands and has a strong, characteristic odor.” – Not any more! Basically it used to stink like pork. So did erfa. Everyone is noticing that odor is missing from the NDT’s across the board… It isn’t rocket science. No characteristic porcine odor = no porcine…
The odor dissapeared at the same time as pig shortages, with the return of people getting sick on the newer odor free pills.
Janie Bowthorpe
Again, that is false, Gina. The lack of the characteristic smell can mean they are using a different means to press the tablets and/or cover the tablets, or some change to the fillers. That has been proven before by the fact that chewing the tablets up to a pulp (of certain brands that appeared to change) has rid many people of symptoms. Nothing takes away that Erfa became problematic, and so did Armour after 2014. But it is not helpful to keep pushing that it means in black and white terms “no porcine”. Both problem occurred after the way the tablets are made changed.
Ocarino
I have discovered what “bad batch” can mean with ERFA concerning this one ” 09/2018″ LF05809A.
The difference of potency is quite huge, all my hypo effects get back and forced me to stay on bed with very low energy 🙁 Cannot trust ERFA anymore..
Dee
It looks like ERFA is going to be able to get away with a sub-par product indefinitely.
Cathy M
Ocarino I’m myself on this batch and it works very well…
I’m sorry you feel bad on it but for me nothing changed.
Good luck!
Suze
If a brand new batch that expires in 2018 is still subpar, I guess they did not resolve their manufacturing problem. I had high hopes of getting a good batch if I waited long enough for them to correct things, but I think I’ll stay with the synthetic.
Michelle
This is the same batch I got that caused me to break out in hives over a dozen times I’ve attempted to take it. Something is obviously off but hoping they’ve resolved it by now so going to try one more attempt before I just give up and stick with NP.
Francis
Does anybody have an endo that will help work with and prescribe NDT?
Thanks
Alissa
I’ve been seeing Dr. David Thompson since 2007 – he’s an endo at UBC/VGH in Vancouver, BC. NDT is not his first choice, but he will prescribe it along with T3 only, compounded NDT, and NDT from the US if you are willing to cross the border yourself to get it – I dabbled with Armour back in 2014 when I had the first bad reaction to the new ERFA. He does dose more by symptoms than labs and has kept me with a low out of range TSH (but not totally suppressed) for years – I still think I was underdosed pretty much the whole time I was on ERFA though. He is good about ordering labs (with the exception of reverse T3 – he says he can’t order that one and have it covered) and does free T3 & T4 and antibody tests on a regular basis if you ask, and he also has been helpful with ordering vitamin D and different iron tests that have to be ordered by a specialist for MSP coverage in BC. He will work with you, but he takes a very measured and methodical approach. I find keeping very detailed notes of my symptoms and how they change with dosage changes complete with tricky excel charts graphing it all really helps – I’ve been building a good relationship with him for nearly a decade though so that helps too. He is getting kind of old and can’t be too far off from retirement. Hopefully, he will find someone to take over his patients with hard to treat thyroid problems which are probably the only ones he sees – if I had not had a severe bad reaction to Synthroid the first time I took it, I probably would never have gotten referred to him all those years ago. It usually takes 2-3 months to get an appointment with him even if you are an existing patient so plan ahead on that.
Nohan
Thanks for doing the math…but Mr Thorpe phoned yesterday as my Dr had written
240 a day, 60 per pill, so this first month is going to be pricey, but hopefully I’ll find a sweet spot in that month and then get the pills in a cheaper dose.
I’ve been taking 125 of Synthroid with 25 Cytomel and still flat lining. I don’t have a weight issue, but am constantly battling fatigue, cold hands, feet and just the “planning” of dinner is exhausting, let alone cooking the damn meal, and that’s with usually a 2 hour nap and a constant supply of strong coffee.
I think I’ll go straight on 120 of the thyroid for 2 weeks and take it from there and if need be, up and maybe cut up the cytomel pill, but damn, why do we need that along the pure thyroid?
By the way, Mr Thorpe did mention it to me using the pharmaceutical word and I thought “later maybe” but I didn’t even know it was T3 which I’m thinking would be a slow release Cytomel. Right?
It should be here Friday or Monday, along with orders of progesterone and pregnenolone. which I’ve been out of for awhile and frankly just too lazy and apathetic to re-order.
It sounds like you’ve noticed some really positive changes in a week….that’s great, I’m feeling a little uncertain of dosing, as just don’t want to tank anymore than I am, nor go the other way…..but he stressed the importance of temperature and pulse, so will rely on that.
Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it , as others no doubt will too.
Alissa
I think I have a problem converting T4 to T3 and that is probably why I’m loving the slow release T3 (liothyronine) on top of the NDT. Cytomel was too much for me even in small doses, but this sustained release stuff is very gentle and seems to just soak in without required much effort my my body to do anything with it. Like I said before, I found the Kripps NDT to be not as strong as the ERFA and I’m now up to 30mcg of the T3 on top of 125mg of the NDT and I am feeling better than I have in a very long time. Even if they are expensive, I think having he 60s the first month will be good and give you lots of flexibility to find your right dose. You might not need the T3 on top, but I recommend trying it – my hands and feet have not been this warm in over a decade and I can already tell a difference in my skin and brain power!
Nohan
That’s so great to hear. They weren’t here on Friday, but should be tomorrow.
Are you saying that they aren’t as strong, but that you are getting better results than you were with Erfa?
Are you noticing an increase in energy? Beyond the brain fog and the coldness, that’s my real bugaboo.
I functioned best when my TSH was >1 which freaked my Dr, but later read something by Ray Peat, saying that was a good thing.
Anyhow, will start with the 120 and maybe break a capsule in 10 days and monitor temp and pulse and add pieces of T3 later if I feel like I need it…
I was doing the T3 only for a year 50 – 75 mcg, but that wasn’t doing it either. If this doesn’t cut it, I’m buying some pigs.
Alissa
125mg of the NDT from Kripps did not seem as strong as 125mg of ERFA and according to the specs it does have a little less T4 and about the same T3. However, I am now adding 30mcg of T3 on top of it and that is probably what is making the difference and making me feel so much better. I started out with just the NDT for almost a week and then started adding 7.5mcg every few days and I’ll keep doing that until I feel like it’s too much. I’ve been keeping my TSH below .1 for over 5 years so it will be interesting to see what happens with that – I’ll do labs in 2-3 weeks after I quit upping the dose.
Low energy is not that much of an issue for me and amazingly I quit caffeine completely about 6 months ago after being a hardcore addict my whole adult life – fyi LOTS of magnesium and ginseng are the key to painless caffeine withdrawal. Since I started the new compounded meds, I have been sleeping better/harder and also have been waking up on my own before my alarm which is always nice.
Angie
Hi Alissa: I want to say that your posts are both intriguing and helpful. I was WONDERFUL on ERFA from 2009 to early 2014. I have tried several batches since then and have only had one that was any good. I have emailed Kripps for more info and am so hopeful that I can reach my old ERFA self with their product. Please keep us posted on how you are doing. I am “maintaining” with Nature-throid, but have not reached the level of wellness I had with ERFA. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and to post the info with regard to Kripps!
gina
Hi Angie and Alissa I too am very interested in Kripps thyroid can you e-mail me please… MrMooples at America online.
gina
I have a 4/17 batch bottle here of ERFA that I am afraid to try. It is listed above in the “good batch”section but there was someone who complained about this batch on the comments on the other page and they are visibly different. When I compare the new pills to the old ones they slightly browner, specled with tiny dark dots and are shiny. The smell from the bottle is different too. More medicinal than the familiar stinky smell we all know to well. The label is different as well. I am noticing that erfa used to be in lower case letters and now it’s capital letters…
Suze
Don’t be afraid to try it. Take it and be a scientist and observe the results. That is what we all have to do! That is what I had to do with every single batch or change in dose. In fact, though I’ve just been raising my dose of Synthroid and Cytomel to become closer to euthyroid, and am on the verge of being euthyroid every day, I thought of actually trying my old batches of Erfa again as an experiment. I mean the results are temporary if they are bad, and I would go right back to the synthetic if the Erfa still didn’t work. And of course my long term goal is to go back to Erfa eventually – a new supply. It’s been two years since the bad pills. Surely they would have fixed them by now – that would be my gamble if I got a new supply.
gina
Suze – what batches of erfa do you have? Are they the bottle with the old label or the new label? erfa or ERFA. I have a bottle dated 04/17 and it has the new label and it looks like the new pill on the right, in the pic at the top of this page. I tried it for 2 days and I was jittery and sick to my stomach. Also a terrible headache. Now my hair is falling out in clumps! I don’t know what to take??? I was perfect on erfa till they changed it.
Suze
They are in the drugstore bottles so I don’t know about the original labels on the Erfa bottles. I have just a few left of the non shiny older ones. I started these yesterday as an experiment (125 mg to start) and so far so good. These expire 4/17. I also have some 8/17- 30 mg tablets that I will use next if I feel OK on these. After being on Synthroid and Cytomel for 6 months I am doing OK but not perfect and I just wanted to give Erfa another chance and see if the Erfa worked for me this time because I am fed up with never losing weight no matter what I do. If you continue to feel sick on the Erfa can you ask your dr. about giving you another kind right away? Did you have a blood test to make sure it’s the right dose? The hair falling out sounds like a hypo thing I used to have.
gina
Your 4/17 batch look like the old pills? My 4/17 batch are the new pills. Shiny with dark speckles more gritty to chew… I have tried others all seem to have changed.
Suze
My 4/17 pills are shiny and taste sugary sweet without the pork smell than they used to have. They have no dark specks on them and are very easy to chew, dissolve immediately and not gritty at all. They are the newer batch but I had no bad reaction to them before. The older ones were matte, not shiny, with a less deep indentation of the lettering. I still have a few in a plastic bag and they expired in 8/15 and I may take them next. Then I have a bottle of 30 mg pills that I am going to take and see what happens. They are 8/17. So far I am euthyroid on these Erfa pills of 125, exp. 4/17. I have only one left for tomorrow and then I will start the older ones.
gina
Do you feel well on them? I have the 125 mg also…How long have you been taking them now?
Suze
I only took the Erfa for 3 days. I felt well but I went back to the T4 and T3 today. I decided not to use the old 30 mg pills or the expired 125 mg pills. It was an experiment and I may go back to Erfa after I get a new prescription. I am sure the Erfa 4/17 is fine and I hope you are doing well on your pills.
KJ
I am new to trying ERFA- Thyroid. I had a bad reaction to it. I am deeply thankful that I found this website and read about it because I figured I just couldn’t take dessicated thyroid, which is not the case. It was the ERFA brand that does not agree with me. My symptoms reminded me of when I took too much iodine and it would put me into more of a hypothyroid state, very cold hands, shivering to where I had to take a hot steaming bath to warm up, and a deep sleepy fatigue and pounding headache. I plan on trying some of the other NDT to find which works best for me, perhaps the Thyroid-S or Nature-Throid. I think it is important to let the company know when people have a bad reaction so that they are aware that there could be a problem. If they are a good company they will be happy to receive feedback and make every effort to produce a good product.
The expiration date on my bottle is 09/2018, Lot: LF05828A
Nohan
Years ago after Armour changed, I read that a biologist, Dr Ray Peat said that Forest had taken a derivative out of the thyroid to sell separately and that was why it didn’t work as well. It’s just strange that both US and Canada top desiccated thyroid pills went downhill around the same time.
I can’t find the quote, but found these
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18279024
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21215270
I doubt an investigation by Health Canada is going put Erfa out of business, they’ve got a monopoly here in Canada, but I wonder if they are going to test to see that all the known derivatives are present in the pills….that would be interesting because the original desiccated thyroid worked 100% and now it doesn’t, so makes sense that something could be missing in it….that’s what it feels like to me.
Suze
I found the reference:
“The old Armour thyroid, made from beef and pork glands before 1990, did contain other components that were probably valuable, but when T3 is absorbed by mitochondria it’s immediately changed into T2, so the synthetic T3’s effects can’t be distinguished from those of a mixture of T3 and T2. The company that now makes Armour thyroid started removing the calcitonin in the 1990s, to sell as a separate product.”
Here is the whole article:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/03/25/ray-peat-phd-on-thyroid-temperature-pulse-and-tsh/
Alissa
Thanks so much for that article Suze!
It’s interesting – when I was asking Dr. Thorpe at Kripps how he would recommend my adding some slow release T3 to my NDT – how quickly I should raise the dose and how I would know when I’m at a good point with it, he could have been quoting this article. He made a big point encouraging me to use basal body temp and heart rate as the key indicators of correct dosing and to try to the ignore blood tests. I’m totally going to make a chart and track this closely as recommend in the article as I tinker with the dose.
That article also got me thinking that I need to look at my adrenaline levels again – that always seemed to be more of the adrenal problem for me rather than cortisol which always checked out ok or just a little on the high side. I was thinking about adding some low dose hydrocortisone after a few suggestions, but that might be a mistake and perhaps I should look into other ways to reduce my adrenaline levels first or just give the little nips of slow release T3 I’m adding some time to do their thing. Despite meditating everyday and doing lots of yoga, saunas, soaking, etc., I’ve totally been stressing about running out of the old ERFA for the last few months and then after having the bad reaction again having to find something else!
Nohan
Hi Alissa,
Kripps would have received my prescription today which my Dr wrote for 240 a day, but they are compounding at 120 a tablet with minimal fillers.
Did Thorpe suggest the extra T3? I’ve been taking Synthroid at 120 and Cytomel at 25mcg for a couple of years and never noticed a difference….
I’ve followed a lot of Ray Peat’s advice over the years and also had a email consultation and while the diet made a difference, I still feel like I’m running on empty by noon and need a nap before the kids get home.
Have you figured out the cost per capsule?
Thanks,
Alissa
Both Dr. Thorpe and a naturopath recommended the slow release T3 on top of the NDT and my endocrinologist wrote the prescription for it – he thought it was worth trying too. I can’t believe how warm I am, especially my hands and feet and my body temp is higher than it’s been in years. It’s very gentle and I find it a millions times better than Cytomel which I could not handle at all – I did it both with Synthroid and alone back before trying NDT. I had a really bad reaction to that Cytomel – it was like taking a weak and not very fun hallucinogen. My Dr. said I was probably manufacturing my own adrenochrome (of Fear & Loathing fame) due to too much adrenaline mixing with a burst of T3.
Kripps charged me $106 for 100 125mg ($1.06/ea.) of the NDT – a little more than 3X what ERFA costs – and $55 for 90 7.5mcg ($.61/ea.) slow release T3. I’ll be getting some 15mcg capsules soon and they won’t be much more – it’s the filling of the capsules that costs most of the money I believe. I will have some insurance coverage for this, but I’m still waiting to see how much – it probably won’t be the 80% I had with the ERFA but they should pay a minimum of $50-60 which is fine – so far it’s totally worth it to me .
Janie Bowthorpe
Alissa, I think i saw that you tend to make RT3 if you raise NDT. Did you ever figure out what you do that? i.e. have you done an adrenal saliva test and what were the results? Is your iron optimal vs “in range”?
Janie Bowthorpe
I’m not sure how accurate this is. Armour was made solely from pig for a long time i.e. not beef. Also, not sure at all they have removed calcitonin.
Alissa
Hi Janie,
I’ve had adrenal testing a couple times – saliva & urine – and those always test out ok. Cortisol & adrenaline a little on the high side, but not by much – still in range. Iron is another story – I have been ‘borderline anemic’ since puberty (same with my mom and my grandma) and that got worse and moved below borderline with the thyroid problem and treatment. It does not matter how much or what kind of iron I take, I can’t seem to get my ferratin much over 80 (ug/L). Similarly, I found I was majorly deficient in both Vitamin D and magnesium and I’ve been really working on both of those, along with the iron. The magnesium deficiency was revealed when I first tried to take vitamin D and had a severe bad reaction – chest pain and high blood pressure spikes when that is normally low – below normal. I had to do tons of magnesium – oral and transdermal – for 6 weeks before I could handle any vitamin D – now I’m up to 6000-10000 IU/day and brought the hydroxy 25 (nmol/L) levels from below 20 to a little over 80. I’m really trying to get both the ferratin and vitamin D at least over 100 to rule them out as causing issues, but I seem to max out around right around 80 for each – I just had those tested and my levels of both with went down or up just a little over the last 6 months while taking a LOT of supplements of a few different kinds to try to cover my bases – so discouraging. I thought switching to liposomal iron & vit D might help, but that didn’t make a difference, except in the cost! My body just does not seem to process either one properly and it’s really frustrating. I’m hopeful that adding this slow release T3 to the NDT will finally do the trick since I could never handle as much NDT as I thought I needed without getting all jittery, sweaty and feeling like my heart was going to explode – it really seems to be helping so far with none of the bad effects above.
Nohan
Great and it makes sense as to why it would work and then not work.
I’ve always thought that and in 2012 I wrote Erfa with that question;
Do you use 100% of the animal thyroid in your Desiccated Thyroid Pills or do you remove some of the components ?
My answer;
Thank you for contacting ERFA Canada 2012 inc. We use the porcine thyroid gland itself. Once it is dried we have a purification process that takes place (removing bacteria, etc..). At the end of the purification process we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered.
Dr Henri Knafo, MD, M.Sc, B.Sc
Directeur Médical/Medical Director
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc
Wonder what the etc was…I guess the question now should be;
Do you remove any of the calcitonin from the porcine thyroid glands?
gina
Nohan I have tried to contact r Henri Knafo and my e-mail is always returned as undeliverable. Maybe the purification process is different now?? I wonder what he meant by ” we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered”? I guess he means they check to make sure its the same? Well it isn’t. The pills are gritty now when I chew them and they have darks specks that the old never had. Something is visibly different with them aside from the negative results…How dare they tell us nothing has changed!
Cathy M
Good morning,
It’s the first time I write a comment here but I don’t feel really comfortable with this complaint to Health Canada.
I’m 68 years old and on Erfa thyroid for about 3 years now. Let me say that this product changed my life.
I have blood tests done on a regular basis and everything is normal (well as much as it can be at my age!)
I do have other health issues like cholesterol and hypertension. Some days are better than others but to say it’s all because of Thyroid… NO.
Thyroid problems are so different for each person. I don’t think that these accusations about toxins or contaminants are relevant. I’m afraid that with this complaint to health canada you will do more harm than good for patients happy and healthy thanks to erfa.
Janie Bowthorpe
Cathy, it’s definitely a risk.
Dorothy
I definitely agree with you Cathy.
When I saw these comments about a different quality of thyroid and even toxins, I was afraid for my health.
I went to my pharmacy in Burnaby BC and talked for a moment with my pharmacist about it.
He confirmed that he orders Thyroid for a long time now because many of his clients are on this medication. He received 0 complaints in years + He almost laughed when I talked about a toxin or a contaminant in the product. He said that we would know it directly if it was the case because symptoms would be (for every single patients on it) like a food poisoning (vomiting, diarrhea…)
Do the person who made this complaint has these symptoms? Because if it’s not the case, she shouldn’t create rumors like this and try to destroy the reputation of a good product I use and love every single day of my life. (And I believe I’m not the only one). If I’m not feeling good on a medicine anymore, well I’ll change! I won’t ask entire Canada to change with me. This is nonsense.
To end on a more positive tone Janie I really like your blog and all the work behind it. You helped me a lot Thank you!
Anne
Dorothy unfortunately for some of us we did have an immediate reaction very similar to food poisoning, which we have mentioned further back in this blog, and which is why I can never trust the product again, without knowing what has happened. Within half an hour of taking the first of a new batch I had a violent trip to the bathroom, the same happened the next day and the third day I nearly passed out in the bathroom, had palpitations and then extreme dizziness and lightheadedness for 24 hours. I can only liken it to allergy mixed with knock-out meds. Like you I loved ERFA and had taken it since Armour was reformulated in 2009. I’m having a difficult time now because I’m in England where NDT is frowned on by most doctors and endocrinologists and this has added to their concerns, so I am having to buy over the internet. I don’t think anyone reporting this to Health Canada would do so lightly. I can’t do so because it seems from the forms that only those in Canada can, but, in view of the fact that the ERFA company say there has been no reformulation (and I believe them, because why would they feel the need to deny this if there had been!) I think someone should be investigating at the level of the manufacturing plant in Spain to see what is going on there. That must be where the problem lies.
Alissa
I made a complaint to Health Canada and I’m glad I did and would do it again. Nothing is going to change with the availability of the new and far from improved ERFA unless they find a major problem and, if that’s the case, why anyone would want to keep taking it is beyond me. If I’m harmed by any product, I’m going to bring it to the attention of someone in a position to do something about it. However, the focus of my complaint was more about asking/begging them to approve other NDT options for use in Canada than doing anything punitive to ERFA. I did tell them my whole story with the bad reactions to not just the ERFA, but synthetic thyroid hormones as well which I also cannot tolerate at all so my options slim. I offered to supply samples for testing and they took me up on it.
I’m not asking anyone to change what they are doing and I am not even close to the only one that had a problem, noticed a change in the ERFA, or filed a complaint – there are lots from other people in this adverse reaction database in the last few years: http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/arquery-rechercheei/index-eng.jsp. The pages and the many comments on this site would not exist unless there is a problem. I was not well for most of 2014 and could not figure out what was going on until I stumbled on the page on this site saying the ERFA had changed. My doctors ran tons of tests and the only thing that came up weird was that my TSH was super low (almost undetectable when I had been stable at .1-.2 for years) and my free T4 & T3 were also low – hyper & hypo at the same time. All of this is very well documented with abnormal labs, detailed lists of symptoms I gave to my doctors, and dosage changes to try to make it work better which is probably why they followed up on my complaint I tracked down some old stock and was back to normal in no time. I don’t have many health issues – mostly just deficiencies – Vit D, magnesium, etc. – which is all related to the thyroid problem The same exact thing happened this year after my supply of the old ERFA dwindled and I had to try a new batch. I went back and forth enough to know there is a big difference at least in my body. ERFA saved my life in 2008 and I was devastated when it quit working for me.
I doubt it’s a toxin and suspect it’s a filler issue or something in the manufacturing process. Obviously, it’s something only some people are sensitive to. I avoid conventionally raised meat and dairy due to not wanting the hormones. antibiotics, or Roundup soaked GMO feed the animals are pumped full of and am really glad I no longer have to take a medicine every day that’s sourced from that kind of scary agriculture. When a frighteningly high percentage of feedlot pigs are ending up sterile and with deformed organs, how healthy do you think their thyroids are? This statement is a condemnation of North American agriculture in general and not directed at any particular company or product, except maybe Monsanto.
gina
Alissa – I too was saved by erfa for many years and now have a new bottle that tried to kill me. What are you taking now?
gina
I also find it very alarming that the lablel on ERFA states “made in Canada” and the company confesses it is actually made in Spain. This is false advertising and illegal.
Janie Bowthorpe
Gina, the desiccated thyroid powder they use is made in Spain. The tablets can be made in Canada. Nothing false or illegal.
gina
The tablets are made at a new plant in Spain though… The thyroid powder is imported to Spain from UK??? per ERFA 2012
Janie Bowthorpe
That could be right. But the bottom line is that it’s not a conspiracy. A company will say that something is “made by them” where they are located as a company, even if it’s put together somewhere else.
Jane
Good morning,
Just to say that I feel okay on ERFA for many years.
Never noticed a change…
It’s strange to read all these comments.
gina
Jane – Can you please tell me what batch (date on bottle) you are currently taking of erfa? Does the bottle have the old label with lowercase erfa or the new bottle with ERFA? Do the pills have dark speckles.
Nohan
Thanks again Alissa.
I phoned Kripps and a woman pharmacist insisted that they just used Erfa…I re-read your email and phoned back for Dr. Thorpe and by that time someone had given her the word that she was wrong…so she wasn’t very pleasant, but I got the info I needed and will be seeing my Dr on the 15th and will get a prescription …..although I’m not even sure what amount to ask for….I did good on the old thyroid at 180 and I was taking 4 and 5 pills of Erfa which wasn’t doing much.
Will let you know
Nohan
Alissa
It’s about the same so 180-200mg should be good for you. It has 535 mcg of T4 and 139mcg of T3 per gram – you can do the math and make your best guess and what to try.
Nohan
Hey Alissa,
i just talked to Mr. Thorpe as I had a couple of questions as to my Dr cutting the prescription and you were right, he is an old school thyroid guy…reminds me of old Dr Derry from Victoria who originally diagnosed thyroid, when my Dr denied it.
i mentioned to him that his name was now on the internet and he said “Great”, they ship all over…
Another thing I didn’t know was that they do thyroid prescriptions for naturopaths and vets…I would think they wouldn’t be so stuck in the dogma of conventional medicine for those who’s Drs aren’t hearing them.
Thanks for you perseverance!!!.
Alissa
Hey Nohan,
I did warn Dr. Thorpe that I would be telling people about his kiwi NDT – I was so happy to find it. He’s old school for sure! I’ve been taking it for about a week and I think it is a bit weaker than the ERFA, but the difference might also be taking capsules rather than doing it sublingualy. I have opened the capsules a few times, but it needs some sugar or xylitol or something. Other than that, I like it – there’s none of jitteryness and tension I was feeling on my recent batch of ERFA and my hypo symptoms that returned after only 5-6 weeks on it are about gone, but I was on the good old ERFA for a couple weeks during the transition too.
Nohan
It sounds like the transition is coming together….
When you took the capsules apart, did you take all the thyroid at once?
I just cannot swallow pills…it’s a tape loop in my brain that that it’s gonna get stuck in my throat…so I crush or chew everything…but I was wondering if by doing that, if I was going to OD on thyroid for an hour and then crash.
Did you notice any difference?
Alissa
The capsules are tiny. The last few days I’ve been opening them and putting the contents on a little xylitol and then letting it dissolve in my mouth and swallowing. I also then swallow the empty capsule because it’s not quite empty to make sure I get it all. I’m only doing 125mg of the NDT and I’m taking that at 10-11pm along with 7.5mcg of slow release T3. I would not worry about ODing – I’m taking it an hour to right before bed and have had no problem sleeping. I’m also taking 15mcg of T3 at 10-11am.
I’m staring to feel better than I have in awhile and am going to stick with this dosage for a bit and start monitoring my temp and pulse rate more closely before bumping it up again. I’ve been underdosed for going on 2 years because I reduced what I was taking in 2014 from 155mg then down to 140mg then down to 125mg with the first bad reaction to the new ERFA and then I only had 500 125mgs of the old stock ERFA and I would half-intentionally ‘forget’ to take it fairly regularly to make it last longer – pathetic. I’m so glad I’m not in that mindset anymore and can take as much as I want and experiment to find my optimal dose.
I’m really liking the slow release T3 with the NDT, but you do have to swallow an intact capsule for that. I have a tendency to get too much reverse T3 when raising the NDT over 2.5 grains so I think I’ll keep that at 125mg or maybe just a bit higher and keep adding the T3 until I find the sweet spot. I may also try ramping up the T3 and backing off the NDT ala the Wilson’s temperature syndrome treatment to clear out any excess reverse T3, but I’m not quite sure on that just yet. Since I’m feeling pretty good, I’ll probably just keep doing what I’m doing for now.
Suze
OK thanks for the link about Armour, Janie. I will not bother trying to get Armour since it seems as wracked with scandal as Erfa. I was not impressed to read that this important product was sold so many times to different companies. I did some research and it used to be made by Armour who had packing plants that don’t exist anymore. An unnamed company bought it from Armour and then it went to Forest and then Activas which became Allergan which was taken over by Pfizer this year. Armour’s website is being “updated” presumably to add the new info that it’s now owned by Pfizer. I read on some site a defense of the change in 2008, that it was done to increase the shelf life so they wouldn’t have to have big recalls of expired product since the larger doses didn’t sell as much. They did the recalls of their own free will when their testing showed slight loss of efficacy after a year. I just wonder if it would still be a stable product if Armour was still making it. It is hard to get straight answers about the history and manufacture of any thyroid product and I find that annoying and inexcusable. They should be competing to make the finest thyroid pill in the world but none of them seem to care. I’m still using t3 and t4 synthetics and just raised the t4 and lowered to t3 to try to tweak my dose. I miss the good Erfa but don’t dare to take my old pills again. Maybe some day I’ll try it again with a new batch.
Dee
You would think their priority would be to supply the utmost pure medication to us, especially since there are SO many people that need thyroid hormone to live any sort of liveable existence. It seems to be all about the almighty dollar, though.
kimi
How about all the thyroid sufferers tell the fda! I know you don’t like synthroid anymore but there is a reason? FDA took thyroid hormone out! did any of you know that? isnstead of the natural (which I know are important) go to the FDA and tell them YOU WANT 90 to 110 percent potency back in synthroid and take the coding off the pills cuz it causes a absorption problem by not getting all the synthroid. FDA has told me they haven’t heard any complaints. I think it’s because all of you are here want natural and no fda can regulate a natural med. look up fda and tell them synthroid is no longer working because there is not enough HORMONE! thanks kimi
Janie Bowthorpe
Kimi, the problem with Synthroid is not because there is “not enough hormone” or because “it was taken out”. You have misunderstood something you have read. Synthroid hasn’t worked because it’s simply a storage hormone i.e. only one of five thyroid hormones, and the body is not meant to live for conversion alone. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Pete
I had a bad batch (Lot: 13G051, Exp: 07/2016) two years ago and felt awful. After that I had good luck (and good batches) for almost two years and almost forgot about this. Until a month ago I bought a new bottle and noticed right away it was one of the bad ones (Lot: LF04143A, EXP: 07/17). The pills were much harder and soon enough I started to feel as though I hadn’t taken Erfa Thyroid at all.
I’m losing my faith in Erfa Thyroid. But the thing is, we have only two options of NDT here in Finland: Armour and Erfa Thyroid. And Armour seems to be unreliable too at the moment.
Janie Bowthorpe
Try chewing them up to a fine wet powder in your mouth, then drink down and let us know.
Pete
I tried that since it worked for me with the reformulated Armour. I have found out that these bad batches of Erfa work best for me if I crush the tablets (really grind them) between two spoons, add a little bit of sugar and then place the powder under my tongue. It seems to dissolve right away.
What’s strange about these batches is that you just don’t know which ones are good and which are bad. I mean I’ve had a good and a bad batch with the same expiry date (07/17) and almost the same lot number (LF04141A=good, LF04143A=bad). It’s like a lottery with your health.
Oh, but I just found out that they have started importing Nature-Throid to Finland. We do have a choice after all!
Pete
After some experimenting I´ve found that chewing the tablets does help after all. You just have to keep on chewing for a longer time than I did (chew until there’s no pieces left in your mouth).
Suze
For those who crushed the tablets and it worked, that was not my problem. I have chewed up my thyroid tablets since 1991, ever since I found out they were formulated with sugar and were chewable. I wanted them to work right away, not slowly dissolve in the stomach. If it was a matter of grinding them to a fine powder to make them work, wouldn’t chewing them up be equivalent? Despite chewing them every time, there were distinctly bad batches of Erfa in 2014 and 2015 which made me ill, and I finally gave up and went back to synthetic T4 and T3. My dream is to get my new endo to prescribe NT or Armour. I am still not perfectly euthyroid on the synthetics and I never feel as perfect as I did from late 2012 to early 2014 when the Erfa was perfect. Maybe it’s sheer superstition but I wonder if my body misses the T1 and T2.
Janie Bowthorpe
Suze, thank you for your observations that even chewing didn’t help you with bad batches of Erfa. By the way, you might want to reconsider getting on Armour. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2015/09/19/armour-and-unhappy-thyroid-patients/
Pete
Hi Suze, When Armour was reformulated in 2009 I started chewing it. Armour needed only a little chewing (maybe five seconds or so) to make it work again. I tried this with the bad batches of Erfa I received and at first decided it didn’t work. But then I tried again and this time kept on chewing until the pill had completely dissolved. This takes me maybe a minute or two. I then realized Erfa was working again. So chewing the pills for a longer time might make a difference.
donna
I switched last week from Erfa’s thyroid pills to a compounded thyroid hormone, and all the symptoms of muscle pain, muscle twitching, extreme muscle weakness, nausea, sleeplessness, emotional and psychological symptoms of exhaustion, paranoia, panic attacks, have all cleared up since I switched. But my first day on a low dose of hydrocortisone, I felt completely normal. I’m off the hydrocortisone now as my adrenal tests returned normal from the ACTH test. I feel so much better, and I’m writing to Health Canada about Erfa’s thyroid hormone, and I suggest anyone else on Erfa’s thyroid hormone experiencing a list of symptoms also write the Health Canada, and force Erfa to seriously look into what they did that made a medicine go from good to less valuable than T4 only. They should not be able to get away with this….enough is enough, I was sick for 18 months….damn sick~!
Helen
Hello Donna,
I’m happy to read that you feel better now. I just wanted to say that I felt some of your symptoms about 3 months ago. I’m on erfa to. I talked with my doctor (who is awsome bless him) and he told me to decrease my dosage. In one week everything was back to normal. It was as if my body was telling me that a smaller dosage would be enough for me.
So I don’t think Erfa has anything to do with that. I think it’s just impossible to create a unique pill perfect for everyone and for all your life. I accept the fact that I will probably have to change my dosage again in a few years…
Anyway… Happy that you found something else you like.
Good luck!
Alissa
I agree Donna – I have been asking my doctors and pharmacists to file complaints with ERFA and Health Canada as well, but doubt they actually have. You can fill out an online complaint form with Health Canada here: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/compli-conform/prob-report-rapport/frm-0317-eng.php – everyone who has a bad reaction to the new ERFA should – it only takes a few minutes.
I was able to stockpile a stash of the old ERFA back in 2014, but it’s running out and expiring so I tried a new batch a month ago. I knew about a week in, it was not ok, but I am going to try to power through a month-6 weeks so I have the blood tests to prove somethings is off with it. My TSH will be super low/suppressed and free T3 will also be low – I can tell and that’s exactly what happened in 2014 – hypo & hyper at the same time. I have a prescription for compounded NDT and am shopping around for pharmacies – so far, I have not found anyone that can make me tablets I can do sublingualy which I would prefer to capsules. Any recommendations on compounding pharmacies in the Vancouver, BC area??
Nohan
Hi,
I’m from B.C. and was under the impression that the pharmacy’s would use Erfa in their formulas….am I wrong?
I used to take it, but in my opinion the quality immediately diminished when Erfa bought it from Parke Davis, I believe.
I’m on Synthroid and Cytomel which isn’t working but we lack choices here in Canada. I am thinking of
trying the Thyro Gold, but have read that on a website that one of their ingredients brings other problems, so would be interested to know what others think;
Forskolin
Forskolin and derivatives as tools for studying the role of cAMP
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/g … 1/art00001
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/1660629
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23146043
By the way Alissa, there’s a book out about Health Canada, called “Corrupt to the Core” ….so I wouldn’t waste the time or ink, but I believe there’s more value by this site and others exposing Erfa, it’s just too bad that they have no competition in Canada, so why clean up their act.
Alissa
I also got a very nice personal reply from Health Canada from the form above. I was told that they “opened a case for further follow up” and that my complaint was added to their main database. Because I had a bad reaction, they escalated it to the “Canada Vigilance Program” and said they may contact me again – maybe they will test the old and new. If not, I’ll get that done somewhere. In my complaint I also asked that they approve more brands for use in Canada so patients have options. Corrupt or not, if they get enough complaints they will have to do something – it’s worth taking a few minutes to fill out the form.
Alissa
I was contacted again by Health Canada – they are looking into this. They requested a lot more information including pictures of the bottles/labels and asked if they could contact the pharmacies I got them from so they can get for more information – lot numbers, etc. from them. Best of all, it sounds like they do want to test the pills – my old stock and the new! They are asking how many I have and would be willing to give them. I do not want to part with very many of the old ones, right now, but I offered a week’s worth – 7 pills and possibly more in a couple months if I’m dong well on the compounded thyroid. They can have all 63 of the new ones. I will report back on what develops with this for sure.
Alissa
Update: Health Canada is going to test the ERFA! I’m sending them samples from the bad batch I got in February, two different batches that did not work well from 2014, and the good old stuff that does work. They have assured me that they will keep me posted on the progress of the investigation and outcomes of the analysis and I will report back here.
I probably will never take ERFA again after my stash of the old stuff is gone and/or when I’m stable on my new custom made meds, but I would still like to know what happened to it. Look into compounded NDT, especially if you are in Canada as it is the only other option – it is NOT ERFA. I think it is going to end up being a way better option, at least for me and worth every penny of the extra expense.
Nohan
Hey Alissa
That’s great news about the compounded, but today I phoned some compounding pharmacies in B.C. and although it appears many are just using the synthetic in their formulas, a pharmacist I talked to said that they did do a desiccated one, although they did not know if the thyroid came from Erfa…but the company that they used for their compounding supplies was called PCCA
http://www.pccarx.ca/products
I phoned them questioning if they used Erfa, cause I didn’t want it and the guy who was pretty good said that he wasn’t allowed to say where the product came from BUT I should maybe get the compounding pharmacy to inquire about the “Country of Origin” which pretty much said that it wasn’t from Canada.
Anyhow I did that and the pharmacist phoned and told me that it comes from the US…so would it be likely that this is from Activis as they are in Canada also, but there’s no mention of Thyroid on their website.
By the way, the “good guy” at PCCA said that their company spent a lot of money testing their drugs to make sure ingredients were spot on as they were used for compounding so quality would not be an issue with their products…
So I don’t know, but I’m going to go see my Dr in the next couple of weeks (different city) and will get a prescription for it.
Alissa
Every compounding pharmacy I have gone to (7 now) has or can and will get the NDT powder and there is no connection whatsoever with ERFA which is a commercial preparation made in Spain (formerly Belgium I believe) – not Canada. I have a big long message ‘awaiting moderation’ from a couple days ago mentioning PCCA and lots of info on how the compounding works – not sure why it has not been posted. The PCCA powder is just dried porcine thyroid (20-35%) and lactose (65-80%) Most of the pharmacies use them, but Medisca is the other big supplier in North America: https://www.medisca.com/. I would prefer not to have the lactose so I’m waiting to hear back on what exactly is in the Medisca powder. You also can find out exactly how much T3 & T4 is in each batch – ask for the ‘certificate’.
Some people really like the compounded synthetics and there is way more flexibility with the dosing this way. Also think about getting the slow release capsules – I’m going to experiment with that rather than multi-dosing (which I often miss and don’t do consistently enough) and I’m also going to do some experimenting with slow release T3 on top of the NDT – I’ve had a few pharmacists and naturopaths recommend that. I’m still shopping around, but Finlandia, Kripps, and Pure all look pretty good and they do ship – internationally even, but there are compounding pharmacies everywhere. I’m really excited about getting to customize something exactly to my needs and wish I would have gone this route years ago. I think the ERFA getting ruined is actually going to be for the best for me because it’s forcing me into something way better.
Janie Bowthorpe
Alissa, where are you seeing that about the high percentage of lactose for what is used in compounded ndt? Can you post a link? The ndt powder made in the US at American labs for all prescription ndt only has a trace of lactose (probably because of what the pigs are fed). So I’m unclear why the powdered porcine for compounded would have such a high amount of lactose.
Alissa
I was told by that same pharmacist that they have to mix the dried thyroid powder with something for compounding purposes just so they could measure/weight it for accurate dosing. I guess the powder on its own is so potent even very accurate scales won’t measure it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Something doesn’t sound right. All prescription NDT’s do use the powder as is…
Alissa
According to the Medisca’s MSDS – the 65-80% lactose by weight is the deal with the powder from American Labs. It is surprising since one of the main reasons people use compounding pharmacies is to avoid lactose.
Why are you not publishing my posts? I thought I had information people should know, but you are not sharing it so I guess I will not post here anymore.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hmm. I’m just not sure that’s true that the powder from American Labs has 65-80% lactose. It’s so odd. As far as not publishing your posts, I’m not sure what you mean. All have been approved, so something must have gone wrong.
Alissa
Weird – when I look at this board, I see two of my posts saying ‘your comment is awaiting moderation’ – one from March 31 and one from today.
I emailed American Labs to ask who their distributors are. Both PCCA and Medisca sell it with that same lactose content, but maybe there are others that don’t?? I have yet to find a pharmacy that gets it from anywhere other than those two though and I’ve been to 7. I do have one pharmacist looking into it to see if they can find something without that much lactose outside their normal suppliers, but it might not exist.
Commercial prescription preps probably can buy just the died thyroid powder in bulk without that much lactose because they would be buying a lot of it. That pharmacist told me they have to add more of something when it’s sold for compounding so they can measure it and even then it’s a very small amount so the pharmacy has to add their own fillers to fill a capsule.
Alissa
American Labs was totally unhelpful and would not give me any info on their products or distributors. However, both PCCA and Medisca were super responsive and got back to my right away by phone or email. Neither adds the lactose themselves – they just sell the bulk porcine thyroid powder exactly how they get it from American Labs. Here is the link to Medisca’s SDS again since it was in one of my messages from a few days ago that did not get published and is still awaiting moderation: https://www.medisca.com/NDC_SPECS/MUS/1654/MSDS/1654.pdf
I do have a pharmacist checking to see if he can get anything else from beyond North America (New Zealand seems like the best option – might be coming from the same or similar source for what goes into ThyroGold – they have porcine and bovine), but right now I don’t have any choice other than to have some lactose with my compounded NDT. Crossing the border for other not great options with no insurance coverage is the only alternative other than ThyroGold. I’m from the US and am down there all the time, but the American commercial prescription NDTs are about as expensive as the compounded stuff in Canada (more after my insurance coverage) and they all seem to have their own issues anyway. I tried Armour back in 2014 and did not like it nearly as much as the old ERFA.
I’m tempted to try to round up some investors to produce an organic/grass fed/humanly pasture raised/sustainable/hypoallergenic (or close to it) prescription NDT. Obviously, there’s a market for it! I am envisioning a wishful thinking business model that sells high end pork chops to pay for free or greatly discounted/subsidized NDT for as many people as possible. I’ve never liked taking something originating from commercial feedlots everyday as I believe some of the pain and suffering those animals endure gets bound up in the products made from their dead bodies.
I will keep you posted on the Heath Canada investigation and testing of the ERFA – they should be getting my samples tomorrow. I have to say that I’ve been extremely impressed by the guy I’ve been communicating with on this – he is very professional, thoughtful and cordial. I’ve been pushing him to look at the fillers and source of the dried thyroid was well as just the T3 and T4 levels, but we’ll see what they actually do. I’m beyond pleasantly surprised that they are even conducting an investigation which is way more of a response than I expected when I filled out the online complaint form – like Nohan I assumed that was a waste of time, but I felt like I had to do it after having the bad reaction again and I’m really glad I did. I did hang onto enough of the new bad batch and my old good stuff to have my own analysis done if I want down the road, but I would probably rather just take the old ERFA – it hurt to even send 7 pills of that away for the testing.
Janie Bowthorpe
ThyroGold is already out there and is the grass-fed NDT you describe….
Nohan
I have thought the same thing and even looked for a “recipe” in old books as I have relatives and friends raising organic beef and pigs.
I read on a forum several years ago that a woman was making it and commented that the measuring had to be very precise.
I’m OK with lactose so am going to get some compounded at drug store in Kelowna, as the pharmacist is on board to bring it in from PCCA.
Alissa
I want the insurance coverage which is why I would like to see better prescription options that are consistently available. I’m also not so sure ThyroGold is organic – just grass fed/pature raised – and it sounds like you have to take quite a few capsules of it – I’d like something more potent.
I don’t have a huge issue with lactose so I will go the compounding route too for now. There are several pharmacies in Vancouver that stock it so no special order is necessary. I just thought I would look for something lactose free since I do generally avoid it along with soy and corn, but not as much a gluten which is a much bigger problem for me. A few of these pharmacists I’ve been talking to also did not realize there was so much lactose in the powder so there were grateful I brought that to their attention.
Janie Bowthorpe
Actually no, many people on ThyroGold are doing well on only two 150 mg capsules. If they end up needing more, they can move to the 300 mg capsule, etc.
Alissa
That’s good to know and I may try it at some point, but I do want the medical supervision and standing order for labs. I’m afraid my doctors – at least the endo who’s been prescribing the NDT for 8 years – would drop me if I went that route. He’s getting old though and will be retiring before too long so I’ll have to find someone else. Naturopaths are ok, but can they get spendy fast and I don’t like to use them for things that should be covered under the provincial health plan. I have yet to find a regular MD/family doc that is comfortable prescribing the NDT. There is the prescription insurance issue too – I’m used to paying $4-5 CAD for 100 days of ERFA so I kind of get sticker shock when looking at other options.
I hate the idea of all the NDT in North America coming from American Labs. I did not know that and it seems like a very precarious situation – no wonder there have been shortages. Monopolies are never good. I think there really needs to be an alternative for compounding without lactose – I was shocked to find there isn’t. I am going to see what I can track down or get produced for myself and look into the regulations involved to get it to the distributors like PCCA & Medisca.
Alissa
I found a compounding pharmacy that gets their NDT from New Zealand with no fillers. I’m getting capsules with just the pure thyroid and vitamin C. If you have an aversion to lactose and/or feedlots, keep asking around and be persistent – you’ll find someone that already has or is willing to get what you want, especially when they know you’ll be a long-term repeat customer. This stuff is not cheap though – I hope it’s worth it!
Nohan
Good Work!!!
Is it a chain pharmacy or privately owned? I’m in the Interior so am limited in choice. I’ve been phoning independent ones, but no luck so far…just PCCA.
Let me know….and maybe they will mail prescriptions…..I’ve had that before…
Thanks for having such great determination!
Alissa
It’s Kripps – Dr. Thorpe, the owner, is great.
https://krippspharmacy.com/
Dee
Alissa, I’ve been following your posts about Health Canada doing the testing, and I want to thank you for the work you’re doing. I don’t have the same energy as you do, at this time, to do a lot of leg work. Hopefully Health Canada will also test the new ERFA for any sort of contaminants such as ‘Round-up’ or similar toxins. I’m wondering if that isn’t the problem with the new ERFA, and perhaps the fillers they are using now are not as clean/pure as the old ERFA.
I’m in Canada, and my options are dwindling. I’m having a compound pharmacist make up some ndt with just potato starch to see if I can tolerate that. My last try was ndt with glycine, but the glycine won’t work for me because I found out it metabolizes to oxalates in the body. Thyro-Gold doesn’t work for me because of the added ingredients. Nutrimeds has changed their formula because their source for New Zealand hormone has retired. Plus, nutrimeds isn’t that strong. I have a few old ERFA tabs left, and some nutrimeds, but I’m severely under-dosed.
About the compounded, I’m wondering if the problem isn’t also the ndt that is available right now. I had a reaction to the glycine/ndt combo, so once I try the ndt/potato starch combo, I’ll know if it’s the ndt because I’ve tolerated potato starch for 20 years now. I’ll know soon. After that, I really have no option but to be un-medicated.
I’ll report back after I try the potato starch combo. I’m also very interested in hearing any Health Canada updates you might have. Thanks for the link to Kripps pharmacy, too.
Alissa
I was wrong about the Kripps compounded NDT not having any fillers – it does have dextrose, potato starch, and microcrystalline cellulose in addition to the NDT from New Zealand and I then had that mixed with vitamin C. They would not divulge their source for the NDT in New Zealand, but I did find out the T3 & T4 content. It has slightly less T4 (33.4 mcg/grain-62.5mg) and about the same T3 (8.7 mcg/grain-62.5mg) as the ERFA. It is small mom & pop pharmacy and the only one I found that uses NDT from New Zealand so it could dry up if too many people look to them – I really thought twice about even saying who it was. Everywhere else that I inquired got the American Labs NDT via PCCA or Medisca and it all had that lactose that I didn’t want. I too have wondered if something wasn’t off with he NDT itself, but it seems like plenty of people are doing ok on it so it must be just some of us that are sensitive to something that wasn’t there before. The Roundup they dump on the Monsanto GMO corn & soy is really scary and pretty much all commercial pigs are fed that these days. New Zealand never allowed that stuff in. I’ve only been taking the compounded kiwi NDT for a couple days so it’s too early to tell, but I am trying to stay hopeful since I’m pretty much out of other good options too.
I also hope Health Canada does test more than the active ingredients (T3 & T4), but that might be all they do. I will look into getting my own analysis done somewhere if that’s the case since I did hang onto enough to have tested. It doesn’t really matter though – I know I can’t take it anymore. Aside from the hypo symptoms there was something else happening muscle and anxiety wise with me that was very unusual and definitely not ok. Health Canada just received the samples last Wednesday (Apr. 6) so I think it will be at least a few weeks before I hear anything else from them. I will post here when I do.
tyra
Inhouse does require an rx and no more credit cards. I had to pay with ck info but it all went well. You are correct that Inhouse does not specify that thyroid meds are rx on the website but… it is in their question/answer section. Once that rx is on file tho, you are good to go.
If you have or can get an rx,, universaldrugstore also sells Erfa and Naturethroid very reasonably. Universal also requires an rx.
Angie
Thanks to Mike re crushing/chewing ERFA. I’d love to hear others weigh in. I did try chewing..didn’t see any difference. One thing I noticed was that all my recent ERFA was NOT shipped in the manufacturer’s bottle. In-House pharmacy appears to have ERFA available in manufacturer’s bottle…and doesn’t seem to require a prescription…anybody know? thought I’d try Mike’s advice and man bottle..one last time..
Mike
I wanted to provide a follow up from my post of a few days ago. I had developed severe hypothyroidism after starting on my latest batch of ERFA thyroid, so I decided to experimentally crush the tablets before consuming. To do this, I just used the crusher compartment of a pill splitter/crusher to grind them into a fine powder, though of course a mortar and pestle or any number of other things would work fine. From there, I put the contents into an empty gelatin capsule before taking. The result: my hypothyroidism vanished completely and rapidly. Body temps returned to normal and I feel like my old self again.
Consequently, with an important caveat I tend to believe the ERFA rep who said that testing showed the product was fine. From a sheer tablet potency perspective, the assertion is probably true. Based on my experiment, the tablets likely do contain the usual amounts of T3, T4, T1 and T2–at least in the lot that my current supply was bottled from. However, there must have been a recent change with the tablet fillers or binders since thoroughly crushing the tablet bypassed the problem for me. Whatever changed in the formulation was definitely inhibiting the absorption of a substantial portion of the thyroid hormones. Perhaps some of it was getting locked up and passing right through the body. Who knows? Whatever the case may be, crushing it into a fine powder eliminated the problem for me.
Janie Bowthorpe
This is good to know. It’s exactly what we discovered when Armour was changed in 2009—that it worked better if patients chewed up the tablets. Glad you figured this out!
Sarah
I’ve been on Erfa for 4 years. I was on synthroid before then. I have hashimotos. Since January 2015 I haven’t felt well. I take 90 (3 30s). In April 2015 my tsh was 3.92. I was concerned but my dr asked me to not drink coffee in the morning to see if it was absorption issue. Well I just had my tsh tested again and it’s 6.92. No change other than maybe a suspect bunch of thyroid now that I’ve found this board….
I haven’t felt well for 2 years but I chocked it up to female issues (low iron due to nightmare cycle for which I had a hysterectomy in April 2015)….but now I wonder how much could have been due to lack of meds!!!
Ugh.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sarah, it is true that there have been batches of Erfa that seem far less effective than they used to be. But…do know that 90 mg is not an optimal dose for the vast majority of folks anyway. i.e. you have most likely been underdosing yourself for two years, as well!! Read this page on how we find our optimal dose of NDT: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
tyra
Sarah… As Janie indicated, you may well have been under-medicated but…. I have taken 90 mgs for years and years and my tsh is always 1+/1- so we are all individuals with different requirements. If Erfa is the culprit, it is easy to verify that by taking another NDT brand, maybe WP or Naturethroid or NP and see how you feel on one of those? I do hope you are addressing your low iron (if shown with labs) since it can be difficult to stabilize NDT dosages if iron is subpar.
Janie Bowthorpe
Tyra, you have to be careful implying this is just about being “individuals with different requirements.” Yes, there are so many areas that each person has different requirements, different needs, etc etc. That you are correct. But after observing and collecting thyroid patient feedback for 14 years, which is what STTM is focused on, it’s pretty clear that yes, the majority are not optimal at 90 mgs and continue to have some symptoms of being undermedicated as Sarah has indicated. Are there exceptions? Yes, but when the majority shows that, Sarah needs to look into that first. We also have seen repeatedly what constitutes “optimal”, and the Natural Thyroid 101 page explains that. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
If I were Sarah, and based on years of reported experiences and wisdom, I would study the above page to see how patients find their optimal dose, and consider another brand with that information since Erfa has been problematic for many.
Mike
Just thought I’d add a comment here about my experiences with ERFA thyroid. I’m a male who has used some form of desiccated thyroid for 20 years–originally Armour and then ERFA in more recent years. I’ve taken between 2 and 3 grains daily at various times over the years with good results. My current ERFA thyroid batch, which is lot # LF03727A and has an expiration date of 4/2017, is definitely under-performing.
In recent weeks my waking basal temp has suddenly run a frosty 95.1 – 95.4 degrees Fahrenheit! I’ve made no changes other than getting a new supply of ERFA thyroid. It’s been a complete thyroid crash. I’m careful with my nutrition and supplementation and my yearly extensive labs bear this out, so it really has to be the thyroid medication itself.
I wondered why I was feeling so poorly, cold and achy lately, so I started taking my temperatures and realized I wasn’t even making it beyond 96.5 degrees throughout the entire day. It was as if I was taking little or no thyroid at all. Normally, when taking desiccated thyroid, I’ll hit a peak temperature of about 98.2 or 98.3 sometime in the late afternoon, so this was definitely sub-normal for me.
Last night I remembered I still had a few custom compounded 15 mcg 12 hour timed-release T3 capsules around. It was a prescription filled back in 2007. The relief I started feeling after about two hours of taking one cap was immense. The T3 fortunately had still retained its potency around nine years after formulation. I felt a welcome sensation of warmth and relief beginning in the heart area, which gradually spread out to the rest of the body. Within a few hours I felt human again. My body temp rose from 95.5 to 98.0.
I’m going to experiment with crushing or increasing the 3 grain ERFA dosage because I think that, for one reason or another, it’s effectively a lot lower than actually stated on the bottle. Unfortunately I stocked up a couple of months ago and have three more bottles of 100 tabs filled from the exact same lot number. If I can’t get results I’ll have to switch to something else.
Janie Bowthorpe
Keep us informed. It’s just too bad what happened with Erfa.
James Z
You know, a thought occured to me, why can people not make their very own NDT? I mean, once a healthy “donor” is found, what is to prevent anyone from taking that donors (porcine-pig) thyroid and dessicating (drying out to near zero moisture content-at which point I assume it turns to a powder?) it themselves? I don’t have the background to inform anyone in this process, nor exactly what the process is, how to preserve the dessicated product, figuring out dosages, etc…, but my guess is, it is not rocket science, and should be a fairly easy process, albeit a tedious one! While I am no genius, anyone with a modicum of common sense should be able to do the research necessary to make their own, and at a far lesser cost than any of the companies stated above!! As far as dosages, start very small and work your way up to a tracked and measured dosage that works best for you. This takes the hanky right out of the pharma’s spanky!!!! Bet they get right then! My guess is, these companies have all been approached and been told to change their formula to a non-working one, or else! This, coupled with a boat load of hush money, would go a long way! Speaking of hush money, my guess in this regard is that they are under gag once they make the deal with the devil!! For shame, how can they sleep at night? Of course, this is all mearly conjecture on my part, but given the vast sums involved, associated with ill thyroid patients versus “healthy” thyroid patients, I would not be surprised if my theory (hypothesis?) isn’t correct!! I am simply amazed at how often patients are more informed and knowledgable on this subject than their very own doctor(s) are, the individual that you are going to for answers in the first place!!!!! Astounding! Even more amazing is the fact that a lot of these doctors still strut around like they are smarter than us, or at least do their best to project this image, such that their confidence is not completely destroyed. Pitiful!! I have other thoughts as well, such as bromides and iodine being antagonists towards one another as a possible reason for Iodine allergy……., but I will post these in relevant blogs. My Fiance has had her thyroid removed because of these inept quacks that call themselves men of medicine! I will not rest until I find the most synergetic solution(s) that I can, to make her life as easy, healthy, and uninterrupted by this man-made (for the most part) health issue, as I possibly can. Why do we even need doctors, other than for emergencies, when we are forced to do their job for them, either because they just simply don’t know what they are doing, or have simply “sold out” for prestige and money. EVERYONE needs to shame these people every time they let ignorance or mindless parroting slip out of their mouth!! They will will either quit the profession, run out of patients still willing to be their meal ticket (to their own detriment), or they will wise up, start doing their own research and analysis, and start doctoring as they should have been all along! Doctors; do not fear the AMA, your peers, or any other strictly for profit (over patient care) agency! If you start doing the right thing, you will be revered and truly making a difference! Oh, and you’ll have no shortage of patients!!
Janine
I am also in Canada. Quite frankly, I have just about given up hope. I have had 3 different endos, with 3 different protocols and views on the whole Thyroid mess. Not to mention a couple regular MD’s. They are all brainwashed to believe what they believe as gospel, as they do not live it on a daily basis. They just follow what they are fed, rightfully so. They don’t actually care and we are all just uninformed whiners.(in their eyes) I am sick and tired, literally, of being a guinea pig for their research. This is all that I have been for years. My life goes down the drain, while they sit back and profit anyway. Do I sound bitter? hmm..This should not be rocket science to fix! I suppose it’s called Medical” Practice” for a reason. There is strength in numbers. Is there any way that some of us can get connected in our Countries and towns, to actually be able to monitor and support one another. We are all living the same life of misery, basically alone. Not that I am not thankful for this board as it literally saved my life. I learned on here to ask for the TPO test which showed my levels at +6,300 when it should be <3. Then I was casually told that I had Hashimotos. Relief…So, I"m not really lazy and crazy as I was told most of my life, with only TSH tests? I did all of those uppers and downers and anti-d"s for nothing? Such a trusting soul (fool) I used to be. Knowledge is power, for sure. However, we remain powerless in this sense without the stamina to help ourselves for the most part. I believe that this is a huge reason for the sudden mental health crisis. My opinion..however, it is fairly an educated one. (sorry no plaque on my wall…lol) Love to you all…any thoughts? Sorry for the rant.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi. We are so sorry that you have to go through this. There’s a Canadian FTPO group on Facebook you could join for support and feedback: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others
Dee
I was one of the posters from way back in the beginning who instantly began having problems with ERFA once it was reformulated (or whatever they did with it). I’m in Canada, so haven’t had many alternatives, and I react badly to chemical T4 hormone. I also reacted to ThyroGold because of the other ingredient(s) (coleus). I’ve tolerated nutrimeds wonderfully, though; but my tsh is now 54.76… so, I clearly need something stronger. Has anyone in Canada had any luck using Health Canada’s Special Access Programme to get ndt from the US sent into Canada? It’s a form your doctor fills out.
Sandra
Wow, Dee, I did not know about this form and that we can actually get US NDT this way. I too would love to know about this and if anyone had any luck. I would serious consider it.
I will keep an eye out here.
thanks!
Anna
Janie, can I ask what you are taking instead of Erfa?
Janie Bowthorpe
Did I ever answer this? I take either NP Thyroid or WP Thyroid.
erin sheen
thanks for the link, that was helpful. I too left armour after all the changes and won’t go back. Have been happy on Erfa for 5 years but the cost is expensive as I would get other drugs made in the uS covered by insurance. Does anyone’s insurance in the US cover it? It seems like Acella or Naturethoid seem to be a good bet? Are they avail in US pharmacies?
tyra
Erin..the NP by Acella and Naturethroid by RLC Labs are both available in the US but stock can vary from pharmacy to pharmacy. You often have to call and see what they stock and have them ck to see if they can order one of them for you. My husband takes NP by Acella. When we called our local pharmacy, they said they didn’t have it. I asked them to ck their order forms and sure enough. They could order it special for him. So that is what we did.
Whether or not one’s insurance covers thyroid meds, it all depends on the insurance company and their parameters. Some will cover Naturethroid, for instance, for little money but, if you want another brand, you may end up paying $ 25 – $ 35.00 each month. Sometimes, especially with coupons, you can end up paying a little less if you pay cash and bypass the insurance company altogether.
ps. If you have a prescription for natural thyroid meds and are considering using Naturethroid, I just checked Universaldrugstore.com’s website and they offer Erfa and Naturethroid. The Naturethroid prices seem extremely reasonable (also free shipping now). I ordered from them for years for my Erfa before that got squirrely. You just email them a copy of your rx after you place your order.
tyra
I don’t know of any prescription thyroid med that isn’t porcine (pig) based. But since you were doing well on the old erfa couldn’t you just try another prescription thyroid med like NP by Acella or WP by RLC Labs?
Nutrimeds makes a bovine based whole glandular that Janie says isn’t as strong as the Thryrogold that you have checked out. I think the dosing would be similar to the instructions given on the Thyrogold website.
Esther
Thanks to STTM I was educated well and switched to Erfa 60mg . It was big difference ! ErFa saved me for good 7-8 yrs, but in late 2014 my symptoms slowly returned. miserable again !
My first option was switch to Thyrogold … After some detailed reading I discovered that Thyrogold contains FORSCOLIN ingredient which intefer with B450-hepatic enzymes ,as the result of this inteferance is increased deposition of fat in liver cells. I am already was diagnosed with fatty liver!!! I don’t know what is other option for me to switch?? I prefer bovine NT. Any advice ?
Esther
Thank you Tyra! I’ ll continue my research regarding bovine NT. Eventually , I choose one of them.
I feel so disappointed with Erfa… So many yrs I was ok always used Univarsal Drag store pharmacy
And cost me $85 for 10 months supply . If anyone tried to call Erfa and to express our concern about inconsistency in batches?
tyra
If you read some of Janie’s old posts, you will note that Erfa has been contacted by more than a few folks about their ‘bad’ batches but Erfa keeps insisting that all is right with the world..lol..
I used Universal also for years and love their service and the Erfa I got from them. They are also selling Naturethroid at a very reasonable price (I just checked their website.) If you already have an rx on file with them, maybe ask if they will send you a smaller quantity of Naturethroid (just to try it out?) instead of Erfa before you give up on the prescription NDT altogether?
E.
So, if Armour is crap now and now my beloved Erfa is no longer reliable, what is everyone switching to that is more reliable???
Janie Bowthorpe
Well, there are some who are still doing well on Armour, just as there are some still doing okay on Erfa. It’s more about not knowing where you will fall. Here are your options: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment
Mariella
Hello. I am new to this website and I have a few questions. I am reading a lot of complaints about Erfa and I am wondering, which brand is the best replacement for Erfa: WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid or Thyrogold? Can anyone tell me what kind of results they have received from WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid and Thyrogold? Why is Thyrogold so different from all the others? I saw Tyra’s post about it being good and I read about it on Janie’s website but what make the Thyrogold so special? Does anyone know the names of reputable pharmacies that sell any of the above to overseas clients? Please provide websites for the pharmacies. I know I am asking many questions but I am trying to do research and someone told me that here is a great place to start. Thanks in advance.
Janie Bowthorpe
They all work. Everyone just has their favorites. You just have to make sure you understand how to find your optimal dose, which is explained here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 🙂 Google ThyroGold and you’ll find its website for ordering.
tyra
Mariella… I take WP and am having good luck with it after being an Erfa user for years. My hubby (recently diagnosed with hypo) takes NP by Acella and he is doing great on that. The different rx thyroid meds all have their different ‘fans’. Maybe it is the fillers in the different brands that some don’t respond well to?? We all have to try the different ones and see which ones suit us. We are all different and can react differently to the same meds.
Thyrogold is NOT a prescription med. It is a whole glandular and is far weaker than the prescription meds. Here in the states, it is treated as a vitamin or food supplement. I think for some folks who are just barely hypo and don’t have iron or adrenal issues, it can meet their needs. For the rest of us who need the concentrated prescription meds, it is only a faint shadow of the ‘real deal’. There are groups, especially in the UK, that you could join and ask about the USA suppliers to overseas users? They would probably be more familiar with what companies or vendors ship to foreign customers. All ‘main street’ type pharmacies that sell thyroid meds in the USA do require prescriptions.
There isn’t anything particularly ‘special’ about ThyroGold and NutriMeds (another whole glandular) except they do have a good track record at helping some folks with thyroid challenges and they are sold ‘over the counter’ (no prescription required). I am sure you can google or do an internet search for these two products and see if they ship overseas as Janie said. I think the Nutrimeds are available overseas. You might ck Amazon UK?
Janie Bowthorpe
Believe it or not, ThyroGold isn’t far weaker. It’s pretty equivalent to prescription meds. NutriMeds is far weaker, yes, but if enough is taken, it seems to work.
tyra
Thanks for the correction, Janie, about ThyroGold. I tried it back when Armour was reformulated and there were shortages all over the country and it did little or nothing for me. But… that was just my experience with it. And I am not a heavy doser of NDT. I have been stable on 90 mgs for 20 yrs. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time?
By the way, this site saved my life back then. I learned from STTM about how to have my NP write my rx for NDT (for desiccated thyroid .. no brand name … and that Erfa was available in Canada and about Universal Drug. I was a happy camper until Erfa messed up. So, thank you, Janie.
Janie Bowthorpe
Well, doesn’t surprise me if you didn’t feel it did much for you. There are always gray areas in everything I report on! But I can say that for the vast majority who report their experiences on it, ThyroGold seems to be just as effective as prescription NDT if raised to find one’s optimal dose.
Really glad STTM helped you! That was my purpose in compiling it, so it makes me smile. 🙂
Trisha
Really confusing & frustrating no matter how well informed one is! I WAS on ERFA and ready to reorder last year until all the initial bad news started. I wasn’t going to chance spending top dollar for ERFA to have to throw it down the drain, and then have NO thyroid medication! So, the Armour had been tweeked & improved in 2012 after their disastrous reformulation, which I am on now. So, HOW am I doing… all things considered (labs, iron, knowing NDT and my body) – I’d say okay to fair, but NOT soaring or at my best. Some days seem a struggle. But… I DON’T know what to do, doctors & money aside! ERFA still seems unresolved!
ARMOUR though doable, isn’t what it use to be! NATURE-THROID is okay, but I’ve never seemed to do really well on it the 3-4 times I’ve tried! I have not been on WP – but I have NOT really heard any reliable comments about it or much about it at all really – have you? ACELLA gets great reviews but it seems hard to get at times and over the last 3 years, it seems like it’s been on back order at least 4 times; so it’s supply seems unreliable if not difficult! Oh, and I tried Thiroyd for two months and that was a disaster!
Any WISE feedback is greatly appreciated. I am stateside. Thank YOU!
Janie Bowthorpe
WP Thyroid has worked well for folks. NP Thyroid is slowly making a comeback in pharmacies, luckily.
Marla
Trisha – your story sounds like mine. I went on Armour on Nov13. 6 months later had rapid heartbeat issues but they passed. My biggest complaint on Armour had been abnormal weight gain, puffy face and brain fog, but i felt better than on Synthroid (headaches, liver issues, etc). 6 months ago, I switched to Nature Throid and now again I am having rapid heartbeat, headaches, tinnitus, high blood pressure….and still no weight loss with exercise and diet and puffy face. I am debating whether to try Erfa? Something seems to always happen at the 6-month mark….is that when steady state is reached? So frustrated and now reading all these comments, I’m not sure what I should be on! I keep trading some symptoms for others.
Janie Bowthorpe
Marla, sounds like you haven’t been raising NDT high enough…and you may have developed an adrenal issue on top of that. NDT is the one to be on, but you have to know how to use it. Check out this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Marla
Thanks Janie. My new doc wants to go to compounded T4/T3 thinking I may be getting too much stuff in NDT I don’t need? She is sending me for a ton of labs beforehand though.
Janie Bowthorpe
False. Thyroid patients on soared on prescription NDT for over 100 years just as it is! Read this and be prepared to guide your doctor: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 as well as Chapter 2 in the revised STTM book with more. Important for you to become informed and prepared to guide.
Lisa R.
Hi there,
I changed from Synthroid to ERFA 3 years ago. I noticed the difference between “old” and “new” pills but just in the aspect, not in the effect. It’s still working perfectly well on me.
Concerning the smell, I think that maybe the pills are compressed harder than before so there is less smelly powder in the bottle…
Just an idea.
nomorebadnews!
Thanks for sharing this! It’s encouraging and helpful to hear you are doing well.
Susan
Yes it’s definitly good to read this 🙂
And I agree with the link compression/powder/smell
I find the pills easier to take now even if they take more time melt if taken sublingually.
Jenny
Perhaps I shouldn’t say this but……..I am still not coping with ERFA. I decided to drastically cut my dose and cut it right in half with the view to going up really slowly…almost 2 months later and I cant get above half my original dosage without terrible horrible migraine with visuals et al…just the same in fact as when I used to try to take all the different brands of levo…so I’m wondering if, just maybe someone’s simply chucked in some synthetic stuff for whatever reason. Maybe as suggested to ‘prove’ the natural ones dont work, or even a response to complaints that symptoms were returning on various dud batches over the last few years. The way I’m feeling is so very like when on levo I simply cant think it can be anything else and I am so disgusted and disappointed about this. Still struggling, putting on weight and feeling completely rubbish. !
Janie Bowthorpe
Jenny, it definitely appears there may have been some odd batches last year, but each individual also has to rule out if their issues are caused by a cortisol problem or low iron instead. Read this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Jenny
Thankyou…I’ve addressed most things and am quite sure that this started with a new bottle of pills. I’ve just ordered some lower strength with a much newer end date. I’m hoping things might have straightened themselves out.
Janine
I’m leaning towards Fatima’s theory! How can they possibly label the pills the same, when clearly they are not. It would be nice to know what we are putting into our bodies. (cough, viox, cough) I am using the few old ones that I saved in the freezer after I saw what happened with the Armour. I am too afraid of the new ones.There is only one truth and we are not being told it.
Fatima
Wow….this explains a lot of symtpoms…I noticed these pills don’t taste as bad as they used to….thought it was just me. Who owns Erfa? I sniff out big pharma trying to “prove” natural doesn’t work so everyone is forced to use synthetics…..thoughts?
Janie Bowthorpe
Fatima, that has been proposed before and is probably not the case. They are out to make money, and they do so on NDT as well.
tyra
Fatima, Erfa is produced under the control of the Canadian government. Canadians can only be prescribed Erfa…. no other NDT product to the best of my knowledge. Of course, if Big Pharma is behind the Erfa in some indirect fashion, then your theory may have some validity..
Lesia
I’ve been on Synthroid for 11 years and just discovered I’m allergic to it so my Endo started me on Erfa today. I’ve been reading up on Erfa and sincerely hope it works for me without issues because I’ve had a thyroidectomy so my options are limited.
Cullen McDonald
Hey Lesia, how are feeling now?
Janine
Janie,
I am so upset that I can’t sleep. I came across an old bottle of Erfa from 2009.
There is no comparison in smell! The 2009 bottle smells like bovine and the 2015 bottle smells like synthetics. Clearly, the formula is different. Can anyone else attest to this?
Suze
Yes I did notice the differnt smell and appearance of Erfa sometime in late 2014. I continue to give it a chance but it is different and I always get enraged and go back to synthetics which are not working either. When I switched to Erfa in Sept 2012 I gradually went up to one grain and then 1 /12, 2, up fo 2 1/2 grains. I lost nearly 50 lbs of hypo weight. Something really bad started in late 2014 and the pills did not work. I thought it was my diet when I regained 30 lbs, but it’s all on the waist now. I never had that issue before. I had eye pain and one lung infection after another and permanent diarrhea and skin conditions and brain fog….these were not issues for me before. Either the pills are weak and these are hypo symptoms or some toxin in the pills was hurting me. Right now on synthetics I just have the brain fog off and on. I hope to get my hands on Acella or WP – anything but the Erfa or Armour that rampantly harmed patients.
Twee
Yes, I remember the smell was overwhelming before. I used to avoid smelling the pills. Now it’s unnoticeable when I take them.
Linda McAllister
I wanted to reply to your comment about ‘baby fine hair’. Mine is the same over the past 6 months….I had no idea it might be related to ERFA. I have been on it for 12 years, and have had good months and bad months not knowing about this inconsistency wiith the medication. I have called my pharmacy several times to ask about the medication, if something was different and they said “No.” I am relieved to know that its not all in mh head. And since the summer my hair is falling out, and for the past year, I’m hot all the time. Not hot flush hot, just hot/warm.
Twee
Just wanted to note the older pills created some “dust” through friction in the bottle. The surface of the new ones don’t seem to do that. I’m not sure if/how they are “sealing” the new pills. Have they always used just pressure or some innocuous sealant?
I wonder where the previous factory was?
Just want to note also that my hair has become very baby fine. I assume it’s more a hyper symptom?
**My doctor gives me a prescription of 6x30mg/day so I am free to adjust my dose based on how I feel. Dr also gives me a low dose Synthroid prescription that I can supplement with. Maybe some of your doctors can do this? It can help with insurance issues if it seems the batch is not effective enough. If you need more then you’ve got it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Just an FYI: adding T4 to NDT has caused some patients to start making too much RT3, the inactive hormone. NDT is 80% T4 anyway.
Twee
I def feel hypo and I had no idea erfa had changed anything. Now it makes sense.
Thanks for the info re Synthroid. My T4 is always really low, T3 really High and my TSH is non-existent even when T3 & T4 are low. I definitely feel hypo but then my hair issues seem to swing between hyper (fine) and hypo(wiry). My hair used to be insanely thick now I look like middle aged man. I’ve never had it grow back since starting treatment for Hashi’s hypo 8 years ago. Small Synth dose once/twice a week seemed to stop the fallout though.
It’s such a mystery. I also couldn’t lose any of the weight until I was given Dexedrine. I also have a severe scaby rash head to toe. Maybe gluten related? Maybe even erfa change exacerbated as it has become much worse within the last year.
Janie Bowthorpe
Twee, yes, there seemed to be some odd batches last year. But when you describe a high free T3, that could also be pooling because of either low iron or a cortisol issue. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling It’s imperative for each individual to rule that out or not.
Twee
I’ll try looking into my iron and cortisol again. I have had both tested but both were done with standard blood tests. My iron comes back as borderline anemia. I believe, from previous reading here, that other types of testing is recommended. Thanks for the info!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Note that you can’t go by those ranges!! And yes, it’s saliva you need to do for cortisol, NOT blood. Compare your results to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
tyra
Twee… Erfa used to be mfg in a factory in Belgium. Now they are mfg in Spain and that seems to be when the appearance of the tablet changed and the complaints started rolling in.
I also remember how ‘dusty’ the Belgium Erfas were in the bottle. I don’t know if it is the ingredients that have changed (the powers that be deny this vehemently) or if it is the way the Erfa is mfg now (harder coating??) but
something was/is different. That being said, some folks have done just fine on the new ‘Spanish’ Erfa but many
haven’t.
Suze
I have always chewed my thyroid pills. If there is no change in formula except the machines pressing them harder, there would be no change in effect when I chewed them up. But they don’t work the same – even the batches that I posted were good before. Did they lose their potency? I did fine on the new Erfa for short periods of time, a day or up to a week at a time, but no consistency. It was like the pills in one bottle were not even from the same batch. I realized that any testing will be useless if they pick one pill from a batch and assay it. Who is guaranteeing that every pill in a dispensed bottle is from the same batch? They could pick, say, ten random pills from a bottle, and test them separately, to be slightly more accurate and see if they are all from the same batch. I don’t even get how this is allowed to happen. Why can’t our pills be made in North America, with strict standards?
Twee
I think the testing and production standards are very high in all EU countries; however, there may have been changes made to the manufacturing process that are considered negligible by any country’s standards. For example, there are vitamins that test correctly in the lab but do not absorb well in the body if they are not encased correctly.
Rachel's Awakening
The Doctors are not ignorant or stupid when it comes to Thyroid treatment or options. It is with intent that they withhold the medication. You may be in a “referral racketeering ring” as I call it. Dr.s communicate and refer patients to other Dr.s they know will also not help you. Find a good pharmacy, ask them for a list of Dr.s known to prescribe desiccated thyroid, take it to you doctor and ask for your right to choose your hormone treatment or refer you to one from your own list. They get a little more cooperative when they realize that another Doctor outside of their “circle of friends” will see how they have neglected your symptoms and have withheld your right. Also, start a medical journal and log every appointment and make notes right in front of the Doctor. I have been doing this for years. My good Doctors understand and do not take it personally and any UN-Doctor will see that you are keeping track. Bring a supportive friend or relative with you who knows what you want. You can also contact the College of Physicians. Usually after I make the phone call and just explain what happened, without making a formal complaint, the UN-Doctor has a change of mind? Just out of the blue, no coincidence :-)8
Janet
Canadian. I had radio active thyroid when I was a 18. Killed most of my thyroid. Hypothyroid for 45 years took Levothyroxine then it stopped working, I have been on ERFA for 3 years and have struggled. The thing is one shoe does not fit all people. I take my thyroid med a.m. with water, no food especially no milk and I also take KELP or iodine drops. I also did a reboot of my intestinal flora. Absorption is everything and if your gut is compromised from poor eating habits you don’t absorb drugs and food properly. I have no problem on my Canadian ERFA the past year and feel great. I recommend looking to other causes why you personally are not responding well on ERFA. Once I revised my methods of taking the med. and my eating habits I am more than happy with the results. You need iodine to help absorb the ERFA. North Americans are low on iodine as our soil is ruined. Especially, if you have dumped iodized salt.
Brenda
What is going on??? I have noticed over the past few months that about an hour after I take my ERFA thyroid Med’s I feel awful! Tired. Foggy brained. Achy. Nausea. I am now into my second refill so into a fourth month. I just found all of this info earlier today and it is so upsetting. I am going to head to a naturopath to see if he or she can help me. I don’t think my DR will listen as I had to plead with her to allow me to try Thyroid. I don’t want to revert back to Synthroid but what the H is a person supposed to do? I have tried to show empathy to my sputtering thyroid but today I hate it!
tyra
I know it is difficult if not impossible to get any other kind of natural desiccated thyroid except Erfa in Canada. But maybe you can check out the websites for Thyro Gold or Nutri Meds? In the States, they are classified like vitamins because they aren’t supposed to contain any T 3 and are considered ‘whole’ glandulars (much weaker than the prescription extract of desiccated thyroid) but… some folks have good luck with them. They aren’t cheap and some have to take quite a large dose (working up slowly with dosage) but maybe worth a shot? I know the Thyro Gold has dosage instructions on their website that I am pretty sure would apply to the Nutri-Meds. Nutri-Meds are available in either a bovine (cow) or porcine (pig) formula. Does Canada let you import vitamins from the US? If so, these should make it into the country as well, I would think.
Janie Bowthorpe
Tyra is right on!! Great information, Tyra. And I personally would go with ThyroGold. Stronger than NutriMeds. Patients love both though.
Adam
Hello,
I used Synthroid for 5 years and I finally found a good holistic doctor who prescribed ERFA Thyroid (I live in Canada and there are only ERFA).
I use Thyroid for 6 months, I feel much better, my blood tests are good, but I lose my hair a lot, while I never lost my hair with Synthroid. I have blood tests every six weeks and my doctor increase my dose based on my symptoms. I take 3 grains and I feel fine, exept for hair loss.
I never had a problem with my hair and no one in my family has hair loss problem.
Do ERFA Thyroid frequently causes hair loss problems?
I would not return to Synthroid, but I do not want to lose my hair at 34 years.
Thanks for your help
Adam
Jenny
Having previously mentioned how I had gotten used to my latest bottle of ERFA, now am using a new bottle with exactly the same expiry date as before and also the same Lot number even…..I am about to stop taking them altogether as for over a week I have been having ocular migraines almost daily, odd absent sensations, insominia, numbness in arms and more……These are Lot: LF03139B with expiry 10/2016. Quite extraordinary and I dread stopping as I will become useless and virtually unable to move. This is not in my head, it is horribly real and I am terrified of the consequences.
Trisha
So, in a nutshell, it appears that there is NO clear, and certainly, no definitive resolution of the unprecedented problems with ERFA which began in 2014. Too bad, really too bad! It had
an excellent reputation, was the FIRST
choice after the reformulation of Armour,
and now… another once great NDT down the tubes! How manufacturers can turn a blind eye is beyond me!
Pamela
I am so glad to have found this site – I have been having problems with ERFA purchased in June 2015, it is just not having the impact it did when I first started the treatment in December. I am up for a new bottle so I will get it and post whether there are any differences and info on the first and second bottles. This is really frustrating.
Anna
If anyone here has been taking any of the batches named in the addition to the post (bad/good batches added 08/2015) please add your comments!!! The more we find out, the easier it will (hopefully) be to see a pattern…!
Tammy
Wow cannot believe Erfa is still having problems. I had to come back here to find out. I switched to Acella NP Thyroid when the Erfa script I had I think 2-3 yrs ago seemed like it was not working like it did. I like the NP Thyroid. I let it dissolve under my tongue. I feel better using it for some reason. The doctor wants me to take more but I want to take less. I want to go by how I feel. The dose he wants me take makes me hot, hungry all the time, I’m tired & I gain weight. If I take less I have more energy, not hungry all the time & have lost 20 lbs in the past year.
Diana
How do I get Erfa, do I need a prescription or can I order it online? How do I know how much to take?
Janie Bowthorpe
Diana, Erfa is normally by prescription, and patient experiences and wisdom in its use is right here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
ken williams
Been taking dessicated thyroid for a long time. . I was in the medical profession for 40 years till retirement. first used synthroid and then used dessicated. disliked synthroid. . hate feeling sleepy or taking afternoon naps . armour disliked. tried efra from canada and have had good results. heard complaints on users being sleepy and fillers used in pills. on a empty stomach usually early morning i take my efra pill and using two teaspoons crush the tablet in one spoon. first drink half glass of water then carefully deposit crushed pill on the tongue and drink a half glass of water. the pill crushes very easily always wait one hour before eating or drinking after taking the pill.. this has suited me very well and never take a midday nap and feel great. . since i use very little salt i take a sea kelp tablet for iodine daily 150 mcg. Of course I take a multiple vitamin daily as well. recently i ran out of efra pills and used armour for a week till efra pills arrived from Canada. the armour took great pressure to crush . what fillers do they use.? could this be a problem for armour pills to break apart for absorption into the blood Still prefer Efra never have sublingually tried the absorption method,.seems good for people with throat/swallowing problems. This is my experience, hope it helps others on natural thyroid.
joy
Thank you for sharing your experience. I wil try crushing the tablet and waiting 1 hour before consuming anything other than water. I would love to no longer need a nap!!! Currently using ERF.
Jenny
Having just read your comment about how you take your NDT Ken, I’m going to try the same thing. My last batch of ERFA seemed not to work as well as previously but I’m not atall sure it was anything other than a slight tweek in production which I needed to get used to. I am certainly rather better now after several months of persisting and after boosting all my vitamin and mineral levels. I’m sure also trying your method will help with absorption too. Thankyou. !
Deb
I’m confused. I was ordering efra from England lab antiaging. .com. and they have armour for 89.00 99.00 with shipping anyone tell me what to do
ken williams
order efra from universal drug google them they are in canada and uk. i pay 22 USA dollar for 100 tabs. fax them your prescription . i get my cholesterol pills and bood pressure from universal in uk via universal drugs as well. read my comment on efra and taking dessicated efra pills. i live in floida love this pharma service.
Tatyana
Ken, will my Synthroid prescription work for getting Thyroid med in Canada?
My doctor refused to prescribe Thyroid …. Frustrating.
I live in Washington state, 3 hours from Canada board.
Thank you.
kicik111
CHANGE THE DOCTOR IF HE/SHE HAS REFUSED TO RX ARMOR THYROID
Kendra
Also experiencing hypo symptoms on erfa Exp may 2017. Which exp dates are good? Or should I switch to Acella? Bummer this stuff was great for years! Why play w people’s health like this. So annoying.
ken williams
how to be sure your tablet is absorbing. on a empty stomach first thing in the morning take two tea spoons and crush the pill in one spoon. drink a half glass water take the crushed pill on your tongue then wash down with a half glass water. do not eat or drink for one hour to let it absorb into the blood stream. if your on low salt diet take a sea kelp tablet 250 mcg each day for iodine. this very little so no problem.
Patricia Brannon
I just reordered a new batch of ERFA Thyroid from The Canadian Pharmacy which I started taking on 7/24/15 & all my symptoms have come back. I got 60mg & 30mg for a total of 90mg. The 60mg look like the one in the picture above, all blotchy whereas the 30mg dont. I tried upping to 120mg with 2 60mg & felt worse. Tried 3 x 30mg for 90mg & still feel like hell every day. Also, The Canadian Pharmacy does not send the pills in the original ERFA bottles nor do the provide a Lot # or expiration date? Has anyone else had this issue recently or with pills from The Canadian Pharmacy ?
joy
Same with our pharmacy…no lot # and not in original ERFA bottles. Just received call from the Doc who stated that my levels were too high and I should cut the pill or take 2. Seems very unscientific and yet I am planning to double the dosage as the pill crumbles when I cut it. Been on this product for 6 weeks, after having spent a couple of years on levothyroxine, then a 10 month period of no meds at all!
Regina
I decided to try NDT for the first time since being diagnosed nearly 14 years ago. Initially was treated according to TSH test irregardless of symptoms. Resigned to only work part time at the age of 27 years old. Finally managed to get an increase in T4 dosage which seemed allow me to function mostly with less need for napping. However, seemed to require a completely stress free existence in order to stay on a mostly even keel. The tiniest anxiety, like forgetting a word when chatting or get in a rush, would cause me to crash and mess up my circadian cycle, taking days to recover.
I got 100 tablets of Westhroid Pure back in March using the 2% dosage guidelines given in the ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Hypothyroidism’ by Ken Blanchland. He does mention the manufacturer and storage issues with NDT, and I did a search on the effectiveness of Westhroid (I was looking for Armour originally but the only website I found could get it was out of it). Unfortunately, I can’t remember everything after reading a book once.
The first 2.5 months were amazing until one day I seemed to be having hypo symptoms again. However, prior to this, I noticed the tablets changing colour and becoming sticky. I recalled the storage and temperature issues, and summer was just beginning. And living in England generally means no AC. I had about 30 tablets left so put them in the fridge and decided it was probably time to reorder anyway. Unfortunately, the website I used was out of Westhroid. Without thinking to check reviews, I placed an order for 300 tablets of Erfa NDT. I wish I had read this page first!
I feel worse than taking the weird, sticky Westhroid tablets. Feeling irritable, tired all day, brain fog, constipated, body aches, headaches, anxiety, loss of patience with 2 year old, and loss of the new productivity I was experiencing on Westhroid. Guess that I need to write these tablet off as a lesson learned and order a more effective brand.
Caroline
I am having hypo symptoms since switching to a different pharmacy 5 weeks ago. The batches I am taking are: 60mg (Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017) and 30mg (Lot# 14J01, exp: July 2017). Anybody else having problems with these batches?
Arch
I’m going to start with Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017 soon (coming from Armour to Erfa), will let you know if I get more hypo on it. Hope not since I have 3 jars of that batch… Which symptoms do you have?
Anabella
Hi Caroline, I have been taking the same batch (Lot: LF03831A – Exp: 5/2017) and experiencing hypo symptoms as well. I am quite worried if this medication really has what it says. I will switch to another brand ASAP.
Missy
I feel horrible on ERFA. So hypo and just miserable. Exp. date 07/2017
Lot 14G02
george
I am new to Thryoid meds. I was told to purchase Erfa from the following website:
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/
I received a charge on my credit card from China. Do you think Erfa could be producing these thyroid meds in China, and maybe that’s why we’re receiving weird batches. It’s well known that the Chinese will put anything they can into medicines to cut costs. Maybe we should ask Erfa where they are producing their medications.
In the mean time, I’m wondering where I can purchase good quality, legitimate desiccated thyroid. I was originally using nutria-meds, but someone told me this was not a good brand. What’s the best brand that is available without a prescription?
Thanks!
Terry B
Hello Georges,
Dr. Knafo told us that Thyroid was made in Spain. Health Canada confirms it. Maybe Anti-aging uses a bank in China in order to reduce charges…
You didn’t say how you were feeling now that you are on Erfa. Better?
I am still very good on it and it’s been 5 years now so I hope you will be ok!
Cheers
Eveline
Also experienced crash on one batch of Erfa pills and had no issues prior or on next batch.
Leona
I’ve been on erfa for 1 year now. I had been on the other stuff for 25 years and felt like sugar pills. I don’t see the difference. They’ve tested my adrenals, okay. I need energy. I need strength to continue this never ending battle. Doc says loos weight, I’ll send you to a nutrionalist… Why? I don’t have the energy to start. My blood test is in ‘range’. Oh, how I wish I could have a normal life in Ontario.
Sandra
Leona,
Have you done tested adrenals? You may have a bad batch of Erfa or you may need to treat other things like adrenals and ferritin/iron.
take care
J
The problem is you are “in range” and that has nothing to do with ERFA. Read the TSH Is Useless page. It doesn’t matter what NDT you are taking, you will feel terrible when “In range”. That is why this site exists.
Brigitte
Hi, have you had a stool test? My daughter has been experiencing lots of problems with fatigue, unexplained weight gain etc. Turns out that her stomach and upper bowel inflammation are 2 1/2 times over the highest inflammation levels, hence the unexplained weight gain and fatigue etc. I think it is always paramount to treat the adrenals first and then start on thyroid hormone if needed at all but raised inflammation markers can have very similar effects to thyroid problems. By the way, the stool test is not available on the NHS if you are in the UK so you need to go to a private clinic – but trust me, after 11 years of searching what is going on with my daughter it was well worth the £250 plus consultation fee! She can now have a life again!
CJ
Which batch or batches and grain tabs have you found to be good and bad?
Janie Bowthorpe
CJ, if you will go through all the comments, you’ll see mention of batches as being either good or bad.
cujet
Just a quick, “no BS” update about the ERFA that I have. My above mentioned symptoms were absolutely caused by a particular bottle of ERFA. I have a newer bottle and am having no significant issues. HOWEVER, if I take a pill from the previous bottle, I feel sedated, my eyes are slow to react and other symptoms too. It’s almost as if that particular batch of ERFA contains Benadryl.
tcj
Thank you for this helpful information! to your health and good luck also…i am hoping this was just a bad accident, but then again am afraid…it’s not something I would wish on anyone-even my worst enemy. Being a thyroid patient is very very difficile!
Sandra
I too have experienced a good batch, been completely fine, able to walk 1 hour a night etc, then started a new batch this week and wham! I literally wanted to go to sleep on my drive home last night. Pushed myself to walk and I am not even experiencing the overload of stress from work these days like I was on when I was on the good batch.
I am pissed!!! I purchased 400 pills this time and wont’ get any insurance coverage now on any further ones I buy for some time. Now I have to pay out of pocket to try another batch. When the hell is this going to stop!!!!
tcj
Anyone have any news on trying a newer ‘batch’ of Er-fa? It’s been over fourth month now I am not feeling well at all, and have gained a lot of weight, and am too tired for life.
I’ve been taking Er-fa pretty much since 2009.
Trying Acella brand now. I miss the old Armour, and now this!
Flo Masson
Last fall I realised all my old thyroid symptoms were back. I saw that there had been a “bad” batch although I suspect there was no actual thyroid in what I had. I called Erfa and was asked to get the batch # which Costco did not keep a record of. My Doctor wrote a new prescription and I began to take those and have been for the last three months. The effect is not anywhere nearly as good as the old Erfa. I have dry skin, am constipated and am gaining weight. It is not as bad as before, but my last test showed I’m taking more thyroid than I should so I have cut back and will be followed closely but I sure wish the old formula was still available. Several others here in Canada are experiencing difficulties with their thyroid medication. Guess I too, need to change brands.
Janie Bowthorpe
If that test you referred to as showing you are “taking more thyroid than you should” is the TSH, might want to read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
Flo Masson
Yes, I am aware of the lab tests being useless. I go by my pulse which will speed up if my dose is too high. It comes back down when I lower the dose. I wonder what Erfa gains by changing the formula. Money for sure but I would pay more for the old formula. My sleep habits have changed and I just don’t feel well. Thyroid can be an amazing med when it works. It certainly changed my life and has given me a great 10 years. I began taking it and within two weeks thought I was having a good day. The good days never stopped until Erfa changed the composition of the pill. Sad.
Janie Bowthorpe
Oh no, Flo, lab tests are crucial. It’s just the TSH which ends up being pretty useless once on thyroid meds. Sorry you had to experience the problems so many have with Erfa.
Nick
I’ve been on Thiroid for a few weeks and am feeling a lot better, and I mean a lot!
Yesterday they took blood for my regular thyroid check-up so I didn’t take the morning dose (60 mg) of Thiroid. I forgot to take it when I came back home from the hospital just before lunch, so took it at around 14:30. I would normally take the second dose (60mg) at 16:00 but decided to put that back until I went to bed. But not wanting to take another 60 mg that late at night, I got the ERFA back out and took a single 30mg tablet. Today I feel awful again, heavy, tired, and lethargic.
Goodness knows what they added to ERFA last year but it clearly affects some of us very badly.
Angie
Hi Nick….I think there may be contaminants as well, but did you see my post regarding my labs on the “new” ERFA? My FT4 was headed south, while my FT3 was ELEVATED as well as my TT3. I have yet to complain to ERFA about this as I’m not sure it would do any good, but I may. Clearly, their Quality Control is off. In some people (and more common in elderly populations), excess T3 can cause a depressed apathy. I call it my “kicked in the chest” feeling as I my chest feels very heavy, I feel like it is an effort to take a deep breath, and I feel very, very tired.
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, having a high free T3 with a FT4 heading south may be pointing more to pooling and/or a rising RT3, which means you could have either a cortisol or iron problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Angie
Janie.. I appreciate your input, but more recent labs, subsequent to this episode and back on the SAME dose of Nature-throid have my FT4 back up to .9 and FT3 and TT3 back to mid-range. This is neither an iron nor cortisol problem. This is ERFA and inconsistent meds…STILL.
Sheila
In May I wrote about my experience with ERFA over the past year. In January 2015 I had gotten a “good” batch if ERFA, and I reordered in late April and received LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. I am sad to say that I again went hypo on that batch. Same old, same old that so many of us have gone through. I am tired of playing Russian Roulette with my meds, my health, my finances and my well being.
I asked my doc to change my script to WP Thyroid by RLC labs a few weeks ago. I am soooooo happy to say that I feel better than I have in 14 months since my original (old) ERFA ran out. I have great energy all day, and sleep soundly all night, and I’ve finally lost the 9 lbs I had gained over the past year. I’ve actually ended up with a nice problem: usually my energy for the past year has crashed in the early afternoon. It has not happened since I’ve been taking WP Thyroid. I wait for the energy crash, but it never comes. I’m afraid this means I’ll finally have no excuse not to clean the garage!
Sandra
thank you for providing feedback when you feel better, it really helps those of us who have tried a different batch and feel off, start to wonder how can this be? Is it in my mind. I again was stupid and bought 400 pills of one batch when I was mistakenly confident that it couldn’t possibly be bad since I was feeling just fine on the previous one.
I am so very very sad, oh yeah and pissed, want my flippin money back as I now have to try yet another batch at my own expense not even covered by my drug plan.
Chantelle
I was diagnosed with hypothyroid in 2009/2010. I was put on synthtoid and felt awful … depressed. .. hot .. always sweating … gained 20lbs in 6 months. I would read forum after forum blog after blog in search of am answer. Than I found stop the thyroid madness. Here u found out about NDT so I went to see my doctor ge couldn’t prescribe UT cause he didn’t know about it. I went to a naturopath here in burnaby bc & paid the fees for free t3 and t4 test. Tham he put me on 30mg of NDT by erfa. After that bottle was gone I brought it to my family doctor and said look it was prescribed to me, and he refilled it. I’ve been with my partner since November 2007. We have been trying for a baby since February 2011. I started erfa NDT I’m September 2014 and i conceived January 31st 2015!!!
Yay … I love NDT
Janie Bowthorpe
Congrats!
Knute Kritt
…same experience on Erfa 125’s….went hypo quickly after new Bottle of Erfa and different batch…aching joints, tingling and numbness, actually started fluid filling in ankles …I have no thyroid gland….After SOB I realized I needed to listen to my heart and noticed my mitral valve was not closing fast enough.(usually that is because of schlerosis, plaque built up another thing we hypos have to look forward to if we are not dosed well)..as well myxedema was clsoing in….I took additional thyroxine 100mcg,good multi and some high doses of C’s and B’s and drank a lot of water…..all symptoms resided in 48 hours…. taking synthetic T4 at 50mcg along with 3 Grains of Erfa to stay stable….today feeling like I need to back off the synthetic a little…..something else going on with this medication….Im in nursing now, but have years of medical research and laboratory science…..it’s almost as if there is something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself and not a formulation thing….perhaps some of it is not molecularly sound….this dessicated comes Freezedried….molecular shape changes happen with this and if temp and moisture are not absolutely controlled it will not be able to bind in the receptors needed correctly…..perhaps if they looked carefully at the structure of the hormones using SEM and bought some JAX mice with no thyroid glands and then tested between batches a difference might be seen…..probably only way to test for sure…as for me…I talked my doc into a look at all 4 valves to see what happened suddenly….valve sounds perfectly normal now…..Im pretty pissed this is happening to everyone and very grateful for this site….I dont allow any doc to take charge of my thyroid issues anymore…I will fly overseas if I have to get what I need…..I take all of my own bloodwork because I started in clinical labs as a clin tech 4 and know whatim doing….I actually feel hatred towards medicine for not supporting thyroid reality…F Bomb !…thankyou for allowing me to vent
gina
Knute Kritt Can you e-mail me MrMooples at America online. I need to discuss this with you…
Nick
I just can’t find a balance between relieving the hypo symptoms and sedating myself to the point of not being able to function. I have also noticed eye problems. My long sight appears to have improved at the cost of my near sight. And when I go outside into sunshine, my eyes water for a couple of minutes. The eyes are ‘gritty’. The tiredness is worse when the weather is warmer.
I’m still waiting to hear back from my endo regarding my request to change to WP. If he could feel how I feel these days, he would die of shame that he didn’t do something last year when I asked him about this. The whole issue of the ‘new’ ERFA is disgraceful!
I didn’t do any better on Thyroid S last year. Is Thiroid worth a try? – I am desperate not to lose another year of my life.
Janie Bowthorpe
Nick, sorry you have had to go through this. Yes, there are many folks who report being happy with Thiroid. Also google ThyroGold.
Nick
Thanks Janie, if I don’t get a positive response from the endo by the end of May, I Iwill have to try and purchase one of those.
Anne
Nick hope you know you don’t have to buy a lot of Thiroyd in one go, you can buy it in small amounts at very low cost to try out, that’s how I tried both Thiroid and Thyroid-S. I have a jar of WP to try now in the hope it’s better than either of them and ERFA, but that was quite expensive as my endo won’t prescribe on NHS. I’d love to try Thyro-gold too, I think it’s important these days to know there are several that suit so this situation doesn’t happen again!
Nick
Hi Anne. I have found a tub of 250 x 60 mcg of Thiroid (around 27 pounds). Do they do smaller quantities than that?
Although we are all different, it would be interesting to hear of your experience with WP. I ‘m sure that all of us on here agree that it is a good idea to have some sort of back up. I must remember to choose a different illness in my next life! LOL
Anne
Nick, hope you see this can’t reply direct to you. I buy 75 or 150 at a time, helps when you’re trying to work out what to get, costs between £12 and £20. I’ll definitely let you know about the WP. And yes, a different illness next time, especially as the NHS still don’t agree I’m hypo and Dr S has died, so not a good situation!
Nick
Hi Anne, for some reason, the reply option is not available on our last two posts. Do you buy your Thiroid from a country beginning with T or V? 😉
Anne
Hi Nick, I buy it from a country beginning with T. 30 1 grains are $12, 60 I grains are $25, never been held up in postage and arrive quickly. There are cheaper options from other places if you want a larger amount but I found this a good way to trial Thiroid and Thyroid-S. Can’t send the link publicly, are you on TUK’s HU forum where they have Private Messaging?
Nick
Hi Anne, yes, I am Hypopotamus on HealthUnlocked.
Anne
Nick I’ve just sent you a PM there.
Angie
Hi Nick and Anne…I’d love to hear more about how you’re doing on Thiroyd a/o Thiroyd-S. I am on N-T and doing just okay..ERFA, before the reformulation, was perfect for me..I also am curious about how to order it…I am in USA. Thanks.
Sheila
I have been reading these posts regularly for a year now ever since I got a bad batch of ERFA in the Spring of 2014. I went hypo, with all the classic symptoms including: fatigue, weight gain, low energy, numbness and tingling in my extremities and the usual brain fog. The one symptom I simply could not ignore is that almost immediately I started having terrible stomach pains: like a huge gas bubble in my solar plexus that was so bad it would either keep me from falling asleep at night or wake me up. Until I read these posts, I was beginning to think I might have stomach cancer.
At my request, in May 2014 my doc wrote a script for NP Thyroid by Acella, but unfortunately it didn’t help. I continued to get more and more hypo but at least the stomach pain went away. So again at my request he wrote me another script for Armour. The Armour was ok, but compared to old ERFA, Armour just wasn’t close and it was like chewing chaulk.
In October I sent for Thiroyd from Thailand and that worked better that either NP or Armour, but still not quite there. If I couldn’t have gotten anything else, I could have stayed on Thiroyd in spite of the way it’s spelled. Based on what I read here about more positive experiences with some batches of ERFA, in mid-January, I called Universal Pharmacy in Canada and ordered a refill “IF” they could send me a batch with an expiration date of May 2017 since some people here said that they were feeling o.k. on batches with that expiration date. They were able to do that and I received LF03834A, expiry May 2017 and started taking that in late January and started feeling better almost right away. Since I went back to ERFA, I have had blood work done a couple of times and everything is in the optimized range.
I just refilled the script again, but because my doc was a little slow in getting my new script faxed to them in a timely way, by the time they got it, I could no longer get the same batch, and what they sent and I received today is LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. It looks exactly the same as the previous batch. I took one of the new ones for my afternoon dose today. I take two 60-mg tablets in the morning, and one 60-mg tablet in the afternoon. I will post again in two or three weeks, and update you all on how I am doing on this batch.
I hate all this switching around trying one brand and then another. I loved how well I felt on the original ERFA, and I am probably close to feeling that good again. My hesitation is probably a reluctance on my part to truly believe or trust ERFA as I once did, but I am truly hopeful that these variations between batches will recede into the mists of history. On a positive note, I have probably read more and learned more about thyroid and all the interrelated conditions that can impact us. I have also started taking more supplements and overall take better care of myself: getting enough sleep, and not pushing (stressing) myself as I was prone to do.
Last, thanks to all of you who have shared your experiences and the information about the specific batches and expiration dates of either the good or the bad batches. I am sure it has helped many other people besides me.
Sheila
Paula
I switched to Acella NP thyroid when I became extremely hypothyroid on Erfa this fall. (I was on Armour for years until it was reformulated and it stopped working for me in 2009.) It took a couple months for me to get back to my euthyroid state but this past week I started on the latest batch of NP thyroid and it is not working. All of my hypo symptoms are returning. Is anyone else having a problem with NP thyroid- this batch i just picked up in late April.
tcj
Paula,
I ordered that as well. In June picked up script, and took normal grain dose I have been on for years…not doing well enough in this one either! Still waiting to feel better on NP. Thinking of trying something else.
I think there is something else going on…and would not say here, but all I know for sure is that I was doing well with NP for almost two years, and then I decided to go back to taking Er-fa in November or December 2013. This is because of a few different reasons, but really, just because of convenience of having home computer to order my wonderful Er-fa again. I was better, and felt it too.
I was losing a normal amount of weight (gained from who knows what-maybe the NP?) and my energy improve. This was from month of 12 to month of 5 year 2014. Six month! I was from size 12 in December 2013 to a small 6 in May 2014…small change in diet, able to sleep enough, low level of optimized labs etc.,etc…(I am under-treated in my opinion, with other related health issues from this from many years of being under-treated, and with all of this, I was able to function in very stressful job, and very physical too on old Er-fa up to May 2014). I was doing all of this with my doctors supervisions.
Then I began to be very sick…lost more weight too, and I believe I became hyper thyroid…because I was down to a size 4 in September and this is not normal for me!….and I was not on any drugs, and it just happened….so, by the time November 2014 came around, I am aching, tingling feet, arms, tendonitis feelings, highly emotional, major fatigue, loss of memories, eye twitching, hair starting to fall…constipation too much! (my Dr said “wow you are very constipated” when she checked my pelvic exam) and so many other symptoms…so stayed on the Er-fa and getting worse, and worse…till February my tsh levels said 3 up from .09 in September (when I was size 4) so, my friend said prayers for me, and I looked up some information, and found all these problems here in June this year 2015.
My family member too was taking this medicine (Er-fa), and feeling the same ways as me. Same feelings for the months of December 2014 to March 2015 (our last order of Er-fa) to now. She is taking another brand now too, and bad symptoms are improving…
I really loved the Er-fa so, so much! It saved me when Armour did not help me years ago (2009) after they changed, and now this is happening! I think I will keep trying NP for now. And to answer your question finally-sorry!-Paula, no it seems to not be working enough, so I will just give it another few weeks time.
Angie
I want to ask this question again as I don’t see where anybody has answered it. I want to try the Nutri-Meds I ordered last month and am trying to find out what the equivalent dose is to 1 grain…Janie….anybody???
tyra
Hi, Angie. I think if you go to the Thyro-Gold website, they have information about whole glandular dosages compared to prescription NDT meds. Thyro Gold and Nutri Meds are similar products so that info should prove informative for you.
Tyra
Angie
Thanks, Tyra.
Jay
OLD Erfa vs. WP thyroid.
I was on 4 grains of the OLD Erfa and switched to 4 grains of WP thyroid.
I seem to be going hypo on 4 grains of WP thyroid. At the same time WP seems to be a good product.
My thoughts are that OLD Erfa was very potent and that I may need to raise to a higher dose on WP thyroid when compared to OLD Erfa.
Has anyone else had to raise their dose when they switched from OLD Erfa to WP Thyroid?
tyra
Hi, Jay. When the Erfa fiasco hit last year, I switched to a different brand of NDT after trying all the different ones. I settled on the WP and am doing fine on it. I don’t take a big dose…. 90 mg per day.
Tyra
Delann
When they screwed up Erfa, I switched right over to WP thyroid and I’m doing great on it. I was on 1 and ½ grains of Erfa and started with that dose on WP. I had to increase the WP to 2 grains. My tests are good being at the very high end of freeT3, in the Middle of free T4. I have no thyroid gland.
Suze
I also had eye problems with the Erfa. Eye pain, blurred vision. Had to change my glasses prescription twice in a month. It wasn’t my eyes. It was the toxins in the pills or the lack of thyroid in the pills making me so hypothyroid my vision went. Plus the lovely Erfa, secretly changed, gave me random arthritis in fingers and toes, pins and needles in hands and feet, anxiety attacks, insomnia, sudden hypo spells and more. I finally switched back to Synthroid and Cytomel. It’s far from perfect but I trust my health will eventually be restored. I will not touch desiccated thyroid again until it is given rave reviews by everyone and proven to be safe and effective again. It was obvious to me that the Erfa was contaminated by something, or had the wrong mix of t3 and t4, since sometime last year when it stopped working right. Before that I was in blooming health on it.
Jeff
The fact is that it IS proven that it’s safe and effective.
How do you know that there is toxins in the pill? Because I’m not intoxicated and I’m on Erfa for years now.
Just to be clear I’m certainly not saying that you don’t have health problems and I’m really sorry for you. I just think that Thyroid is used as a scape goat for everything…
Dianne
I haven’t seen the proof that the newly manufactured ERFA *is* actually safe or effective. ERFA has only told us that the ‘concentration’ of T4 and T3 is the same. Personally, with the reactions I’ve had to the new ERFA, I can’t take ERFA’s word for it that the ingredients haven’t changed in some way – that is, either the ingredient(s) itself, or the source of the ingredient(s). It’s probably safe to say (at least I’m betting), that by changing the actual country in which ERFA is manufactured, that the new facility is probably getting their ingredients from a different source.
Cujet
Facts:
1) Erfa now makes me extremely tired the instant I take the pill. The tiredness is unlike normal fatigue or sleepiness.
2) Erfa now makes my eyes slow to react to the “eye test” (following a pen-light left to right)
3) Erfa related fatigue wears off by 8:00 PM
4) Erfa now makes me feel like I’ve been drugged
5) If I don’t take the Erfa, I feel fine. Obviously, I can’t avoid taking my meds, as my levels will plummet. I have no thyroid.
Some additional important information:
My dose remains unchanged for 25 years. With stable labs, well in the normal range. I’m neither under or over medicated.
The reaction I now have to Erfa HAS NOT affected my lab results. My labs remain perfect.
I’ve done well on my thyroid meds for decades. This problem is new, real and troubling.
Conclusion: Erfa still contains the proper levels of thyroid hormones.
Speculation: Erfa is contaminated with some other drug! Either via mistake, chemical reaction or intentional.
Contact me at N177CJ att gmail dott commm if you want to discuss the matter.
I’m switching back to Armour.
Anne
I agree with you. My reaction was immediate stomach problems and dizziness, cloudiness, a drugged feeling for about 8 hours. This is consistent with my reactions to several prescription meds. I don’t know if the problem is a filler or contamination with some other drug, and if the ERFA company insist that nothing has changed in the formula, then it’s something the new manufacturing facility has added either without their knowledge (do they have such autonomy?) or is a different variety of something that was already in the tablets. I’ve compared ingredients of all makes of NDT and the other drugs I know I can’t take, and the only consistent things that could cause this are the talc or the cornstarch. Both can be bad for some people. This is the only conclusion to be drawn from the fact that some people are still doing fine while other long-term users are not, when taking the same batch. I’ve ditched my prescription for ERFA, been taking Thyroid-S since last summer and have just ordered WP to see what that’s like so that I have a choice of at last two brands in case this happens again. I do think though that some acknowledgement should come from the ERFA company that some of us have been affected by something of which they are not to be aware.
Nick
I agree 100% with all your five statements Cujet.
If I reduce my ERFA dose, I am 100% more awake, the constant hunger pangs go away, the mild headaches are no more, and I actually feel glad to be alive. But of course, the hypo symptoms come back. When I increase the ERFA, I am back to feeling like I have been sedated.
I’m currently alternating between half and three quarters of my usual dose. I’ve also written to my endo (yet again) explaining all this, and asking for a trial of Westhroid.
Angie
Well…my last labs on ERFA showed the batch I was on to be extraordinarily strong…
gina
Angie – what batch is it??? Expiry date?
Vonda
I was one of the unfortunate ones to be affected by the reformulation of Armour, after having good success with it for several years. The new Armour caused a return of hypo symptoms, plus headaches every day. Then I went to ERFA and did well until my new supply in January of 2014, which is when many, I guess, are saying they noticed a problem. The “new” ERFA mostly caused me to be very tired and wasn’t as bad as the new Armour. Then I went to NatureThroid and did not do as well as on the ERFA, but I was getting by until recently. Now it seems the NatureThroid isn’t working for me, and muscle-testing says I am not absorbing it and that ERFA would be better. I’m reading about all the different batches and don’t know whether to risk it or not. I’ve been using Universal Drugstore for my Cortef and got the old ERFA from them. By the way, does anyone know if Armour has reformulated since their 2009 (or thereabouts) reformulation? And has there been any change in the NatureThroid, to anyone’s knowledge? Some of us seem to be ultra-sensitive to these changes, and it’s very frustrating to me. So if anyone knows a good batch number of the ERFA to TRY to get, could you please let me know? Thank you, and good luck to everyone.
Nick
I think that you are right Vonda, some of us are ultra-sensitive to something they put in these medications. And I also wonder if some of us get a tolerance to certain medications after a time on them.
Anne
I doubt we would all have got a tolerance at the same time Nick, I think the change in manufacturing plant is too much of a co-incidence. Something has either been added, of which fact ERFA aren’t aware, or one of the known fillers is from a different source. I’ve ordered WP to try out.
Nick
Sorry, I meant an intolerance, which showed up with the change in manufacturing process.
Suze
I searched for a long time for some evidence that the “new Armour” was reformulated back to the “old Armour.” Some say it has been; some say it has not been. There’s nothing official. Most say if they take it differently they can get it to work, such as chewing it or taking more. With reviews like this it doesn’t make me confident about ever trying it.
About the Erfa, I thought I had one good batch, but the next one (even newer) was bad. I am not playing Russian roulette with my health anymore. If you can’t be assured from batch to batch what you are getting, that is no way to live. My entire life was charting my dose and symptoms. I’ve given it up. I was boiling mad at manufacturers who just don’t care about the patients who are taking these pills. There is no accountability, no communication, no conscience. If you do find something that works, stick to it like glue.
Emily
Hello all,
I had been on Synthroid for many years because my dear Doctor confirmed without a doubt that it was the one and only medication.. -_-‘ I decided about 6 months ago to find someone else who prescribed me Thyroid from Erfa. I think I’m a brand new person since then. I can do sport, go out… feel alive and not just a zombie.
No side effects or “bad pills” for me…
JENNIFER ASHER
So you are doing good on the erfa thyroid?
Emily
Yep! Erfa works very well for me 🙂
Anne
Great news Emily, wish those of us for whom it suddenly caused such bad reactions could work out why. If you know it could you please let me know the batch number and expiry date of the ERFA you’re taking, then I can see if I can find the same lot, thanks!
JENNIFER ASHER
That is great!
JENNIFER ASHER
Hi, I am going to a new dr this Friday and I am so confused on what to get him to prescribe me…armour? erfa? nt? I was going to order from my normal place but an afraid to! I emailed them asking for exp dates and lot #s.
SO SO LOST
Janie Bowthorpe
Jennifer, they all work. But I think the most popular ones are NP Thyroid, Naturethroid, and WP Thyroid. There have been a few complaints about Armour since the company who makes them was taken over.
JENNIFER ASHER
Thank you very much. I got natur-throid and erfa this last time I ordered. I have been dealing with hashi’s since 1996 & went through the armour reformulation ordeal! I knew something was up with the erfa with order before last. I am going to an integrative dr on friday and hoping he can help me get lined out. I also have adrenal disease (LOCAH) and am 44 so my female hormones are crazy! I had an ectopic in 2012 and have fallen apart since 🙁
Thx again,
Jenn
Elisabeth
I have been on NP Thyroid, but have had increasing diarrhea problems. It is to the point that I am thinking of switching to Erfa or NatureThyroid. NatureThyroid is unlikely. I can only take it if my Doctors office an convince Insurance to cover it. I am good with the NP Thyroid, excluding the diarrhea and now irritable bowel syndrome. I am wondering if chewing the NP Thyroid will help with the side effects? Is there any advice on what to do in the case of diarrhea side effects? Perhaps I don’t have to change just yet. This has just been a increasing issue, so I am worried it will get worse.
Janie Bowthorpe
I would join patient groups and ask if others have had this problem, and what they did about it. Here’s the main one on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/FTPOThyroid/ And here’s the one on Yahoo: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NaturalThyroidHormones/
Keep kicking your post up until you get replies.
tyra
Hi, Elisabeth. I am so sorry you seem to be having some sort of reaction to the NP Thyroid. We are all so different and reactions are hard to predict. Have you thought about trying WP Thyroid by RLC Labs, the same company that makes Naturethroid? The ‘P’ in the WP stands for pure. The WP only has 3 ingredients besides the Thyroid USP grade.
It is doubtful that chewing the NP will make much difference if the diarrhea is from the NP but it is worth a try. I am not sure about the ingredients in the NP. If you doctor is agreeable to changing your brand, if I were you, I would try the WP. That is the brand I take sublingually with no problems. Hubby takes the NP Thyroid by Acella with no side effects. Tyra
Sandra
For the record, I had a complete turn around on my old pills, all my hypo symptoms went away, achy lungs and arms, digestive issue, energy, depression, cold, poor sleep, walked for 1 hour the other night with no issue, functioning amazingly well at work, not exhausted completely. I want to say that I live my life the same, don’t change anything like eating habits, exercise, sleep, don’t drink, don’t smoke, go to work, come home, exercise, all home made food, pure clean food, no refined sugar, dairy or gluten and so if Erfa thinks it’ people putting on themselves with their lifestyle, it’s not.
As of this morning, started the batch that Nick is on, LF30833A, and will report how I do on that one. After reading he was doing well, I called and got almost 500 filled (an not covered under my insurance as it is too close to my prescription being filled to the last one) so I wouldn’t loose that batch if the dispensed them to someone else.
All I can say is they had better work or else.
I will keep you posted.
Sandra
Hi Nick,
I see you are on the batch that I just got filled and am hopeful is a good one, LF30833A. Are you still doing well. I’m hoping you can reply so I can buy more of this batch before they sell it out!!!!
Nick
Hi Sandra,
Sorry for the delay in getting back here. I am no longer sure if ERFA is good or not, and this is why.
I was awful most of last year, almost comatose on most days, and hardly able to function most of the time. When the weather got much colder at the end of the year, I started to feel better, On reflection, that has been the case for a few years now. I don’t like the cold, but I do seem to feel ‘more alive’ in it. So, having felt better, I reported on here that the ERFA seemed to be working again.
Alas, as it got warmer, I felt much worse again, ridiculously tired, and wanting to sleep all day. I am annoyed that my endo has not got me some Westhroid to try, despite asking him to do so since last May. But I can’t upset him, as he may well put me back on thyroxine.
Last week, I was feeling fed up with the situation, and wondering what is the point of even taking ERFA is it isn’t working. So the next day, I reduced my dose from 120 to 60, and by mid morning, I was feeling a lot less tired. The hypo symptoms did appear to be a bit worse but at least I could get on with things. The next day I felt a whole lot better, and while I am nowhere near ‘well’ I have sailed through this last week feeling much better than I have for ages. I am actually down to a dose of 30 at present, and feel OK. I like actually waking up in the mornings at present, as before it was like coming to with the worst ever hangovers.
All this begs the question – what is going on? Is the ERFA actually ‘bad’ for some of us? Has my Hashimotos got better (I’ve been hypo for 30 years of more)? Has something else made me need less thyroid medication? I have been taking large amounts of sub-lingual B12 for the last four months. I’ve also taken olive leaf extract (anti-viral), and Oregano, with MasticGum which has helped my stomach considerably.
I’ve got an appointment with the endo coming up, but they did the blood tests before I cut down on the ERFA. I think I will just have to see if this is a strange ‘blip’ or if I continue to do OK with less ERFA. I will reiterate that I did fine on ERFA until the changes the last year.
My endo has told me that I am the only one of his 15 patients on ERFA who has reported any change over the last year, so it looks as though something changed in ERFA that only affects some of us. I know what the rest of you are thing – why me? I wish that I could find all of us an answer. 🙁
Sandra
Hi Nick,
Thank you so much for answering me and I admit, a ton of things going on in my life that at the end of my work day have no energy nor do I want to even open my email let alone get on the computer to see how everyone is doing here.
I have endured a lot of additional work stress with the potential job loss etc and for the most part have been somewhat ok, perhaps have not been stress dosing my cortef enough but once things settle down hopefully soon then I can honestly assess how I’m doing.
I am wondering though if I too need to lower my dose of Erfa as it is now getting warmer and was feeling quite warm and jittery the past two days and may give that a try tomorrow. I never had to do that in the past though. Perhaps this batch that you and I are on IS a lot stronger than the other batches?
Angie
NIck…I don’t think it’s you…see my post above…
Sandra
Here we go again, spent much of 2014 suffering on terrible batches, started a new batch early this year and had a substantial turn around for the entire time I was on it, for months, was even walking 1 hour a day and no fatigue, my achy lungs weird symptom and achy forearm symptom went away. Started a new batch a week ago and those symptoms have returned and walking a 30 minutes is the last thing I feel like doing, mild depression has set in. This just can’t be happening, I am already challenged severely at work, desperately need to function at my best or else fear losing my job and I feel myself sliding down the proverbial slippery slope back to hell.
Dear God, how can they continue to do this to us?
Janie, how is it that you have not been affected at all by these batches? I’m curious.
Sadly, I asked the pharmacy to fill a small amount for me to try and then before waiting at least a week, called and said, fill 500 pills for me. Then I started to go downhill, called to ask that since I had not picked them up, could I get them to fill another batch instead and they said no, so now I have to pay for not only a second dispensing fee but also for 500 of garbage pills and if I want to try another batch, then a 3rd dispensing fee along with whatever pills I try next.
This is criminal!
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.
gina
Janie what batch is it that you still have?
Janie Bowthorpe
Gina, that was awhile ago and I don’t have those batches anymore. Sorry.
Anne
Sandra this is so depressing to read, I think many of us had hoped it was a glitch for just a while last year. Do you know the batch number and expiry date of these latest tablets? Also have you reported it to ERFA and did you get any sort of answer from them?
Sandra
Hi Anne,
Yes I’m sorry that this seems to be the truth.
I did write the batch # down but in my proverbial funk this past week, misplaced it but if I find it somewhere, will surely report it here. I was almost in tears, just feeling overwhelmed, so unwell by all I had to get done and was not getting done before back to work tomorrow when I found 3 days worth of the old pills, immediately took them for my afternoon dose, my walk was still not the best but then guess what as the afternoon moved on, I managed to get some laundry done, kitchen cleaned up, vacuum my porch, banking, resume stuff I needed to do, got a chicken in the oven for dinner etc. Once again, what seemed like the impossible to accomplish this weekend, became effortless!
Then for the first time this week since starting that batch, I laughed out loud, smiled, felt alive and not like a pathetic shell of a human being.
So tell me, is it all in my head OR WHAT?! I think not. I mean it was a serious state I was in mentally as well and I have not been there since last year.
No I have not reported it to Erfa, do you think it will do anything at all? Janie?
Janie, you are so very very lucky to have the opportunity to buy that much at once and am so happy for you that you have not been affected. I am only aloud to have 3 months worth as my doctor wrote “take as directed” so my insurance company wouldn’t limit me to a month at a time.
The one I just got filled in hopes that it is good is 40 days worth. If it works then I will be calling immediately in hopes that they have not dispensed the rest of that batch to anyone else, if not then I’m back to the drawing board with trying another batch.
I will let you know how I make out, so the batch that I am going to try in 3 days when the good pills run out,
is LF03833A. If anyone is doing well on them, please let me know.
Anne
Sandra I think all batches which seem to be ‘off’ should be reported to the medical director at ERFA. It doesn’t matter too much whether they investigate (I doubt they will) but I do think that all complaints would have to be logged somewhere and it’s important that ERFA know there is still something wrong. It can’t be a reformulation because that would affect all batches, it’s something else going on either at the quality control stage or in the transportation or storage. I did find a report that the Belgian manufacturing facility was actually part of the ERFA company and was sold off, and that’s why production had to be moved to Spain. If this means it’s been outsourced to some other company then ERFA may not have the same control over some aspects of it. I also found a comment on Mary Shomon’s forum (About.com) from someone not doing well on ERFA that she’d contacted them and the reply said there had been a manufacturing problem last year but it had now been sorted out. I don’t think anyone here got a reply like that, I think most were told there was no problem.
Please let us know how you do on the latest batch and I hope they’re ok!
Sandra
Hi Anne,
You are right, I will report it, just don’t have the batch number for that one. Wow it is unbelievable how they can get away with lying to us. I know that that information rings true with what my pharmacist said they told her what happened when she inquired about why it was on back order last year.
Sandra
Hi Anne,
I seem to be doing ok on this batch, same one as Nick is on, hard to right now as I am dealing with a lot of stress but I do not have depression or the other hypo symptoms I had that week on the batch I did not have the number for. If something changes, will let you guys know.
Angie
Universal Drugstore was kind enough to provide me with a lot # from which my next ‘script of ERFA would be filled, if I chose to order. The lot # is LF04245A. Anyone have experience, good or bad, with this batch? Also waiting on Canada Drug to provide. I have to plug CD a little. They have been the most responsive on this whole issue and they were willing to refund me for the last lot I had had a negative experience with. They’ve earned my business IF I can get a good lot # from them.
Heather
I want to know if the old good ERFA is back to normal. Anyone know?
Sandra
not in my opinion, is it consistent for all batches.
Marge
I am new here… just found you all today and posted a reply to a February post regarding LF04245A, Exp. Aug. 2017… VERY bad experience.
Marge
Angie
I ended up with a different batch from the LF04245A. Lot LF03963A. THIS time I had labs drawn on 1 and 3/4 grains which is my usual warm weather dose. (My cold weather dose is 2 grains). Was on this batch for 4 days and my labs were as follows..note that I post my usual labs on this dose right beside. So…this batch was very, very strong on T3 and deficient in T4…They definitely have a problem.
FT3 – 5.1 (usually around 3.7)
FT4 – 0.7 (usually around .8 or .9)
TT3 – 249! (usually around 130-150)
Rt3 – 18.2 (had gotten down to about 10)..
Angie
I am thinking of trying the Nutri-Meds porcine product. Nutri-Meds’ website claims to have 130 mg of raw extract per capsule or tablet. STTM site says that this formula is weaker than pharmaceutical brands. I take about 1 and 3/4 grains. What would be the equivalent dose (understand that this may be approximate).
Dianne
I am taking Nutri-Meds now. Last week I ran out of my 60 mg good ERFA (exp date 01/15), so had no other choice but to switch entirely to NM. I had been taking one 60 mg tab of ERFA in the am, one 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the afternoon, and then one more 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the evening. I was doing this as an experiment, really, because I’m not sure what is the equivalent dose of NM to ERFA. Before the ERFA Fiasco, I was on a dose of about 120 – 135 mgs of ERFA, for reference.
I’m now awaiting my recent blood test results, but I have a feeling I was getting hyper. But at the same time I had some hypo symptoms, too. What I did when I ran out of the 60 mg ERFA tabs was start taking just 2-130 mg caps of Nutri-Meds a day. I’ll know more once I get my test results whether I should stay at just two caps a day, or if I need more or less. So, it’s been a guessing-game.
Dianne
OK, my reply was kind of confusing… brain fog. To clarify – I had blood work done at the dose of 60mgERFA and 2-130 caps NM a day. I was taking that for quite a few months. So that is what my blood results will be based on. After my blood test last week, I ran out of the ERFA, so dropped my dosage to 2-130 caps of NM a day because I was feeling a little hyper. So, I’ll know if I should adjust this recent dose change once I get my blood results back.
Angie
Hi Diane. Thanks for both your replies. I currently take about 1 and 3/4 grains daily of ERFA or Nature-throid. I split my dose thusly: 45 mg rising, 30 mg around noon, 30 mg around 7PM. This works really, really well for me. Keep us posted. I ordered capsules from NM. May be hard to split, but I like the idea of nothing else being in them except for the extract.
Dianne
Hi Angie, That’s the reason I decided on trying Nutri-Meds, because of the pureness. The capsules actually aren’t hard to split, if you don’t mind emptying them and mixing with water. I’ve been doing this with all my supplements for years anyway because I have an allergic reaction to cellulose. I’m able to swallow the Nutri-Meds capsules when I take the full dose, though, because the capsule is pure bovine gelatin with nothing else added.
You may not get exact doses with splitting them, but pretty close, I think. Let’s just hope Nutri-Meds is strong enough to replace our beloved old ERFA.
Janie Bowthorpe
Dianne and everyone, also explore ThyroGold. It’s from grass fed cows in New Zealand, and stronger than NutriMeds. Good patient feedback about it.
Dianne
Hi Janie, I have tried Thyro-Gold, but I have a reaction to one or both of the other ingredients in it – maybe the coleus, or the other ingredient (can’t remember what it is). It’s a shame, because I would have liked to take Thyro-Gold since I’ve heard good things about it.
I emailed the owner(s) of Thyro-Gold a few months ago, and asked them if they would consider making a pure version also with only the thyroid hormone minus the two added ingredients, but I haven’t heard back from them. So, I went with the Nutri-Meds.
Tammy
Can you tell me if Armour Thyroid from Forest Pharmaceuticals is now working as long as we chew them up?
I have been on Erfa since 2009 and they worked perfectly until this last year when they did their reformulation!!!!!
Janie Bowthorpe
Tammy, Armour is working even if people swallow it for many. But some people like other brands better. It’s up to each person. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment
Heather
I was on ERFA over a year ago. It worked just “ok” for a time but a few months later end of 2013 I went down hill FAST. I could barely walk. Then I switch to Nature Thyroid and I was back to normal and felt great. However, I gained 15 pounds in 2 weeks on Nature Thyroid. I didn’t gain weight on ERFA however I don’t think it was working very well. Has anyone experienced weight gain on ERFA or Nature Thyroid? Also, now that ERFA seems to be working better, I’m thinking of trying it again just to get the weight off that I gained from Nature Thyroid. I take 65mg on Nature Thyroid so would I take 60 mg for ERFA if I make the switch?
Janie Bowthorpe
Heather, you are severely underdosing yourself. It’s not about changing to another NDT. It’s about raising the one you are on. Learn this and wok with your doctor: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Heather
thanks for the response. I tried upping my dose by 15mg in January for 6 weeks. I had such bad anxiety and mood swings. My doctor said raising my med from 65mg nature thyroid to 80 was way too much and had to come back down to 65.
Janie Bowthorpe
Heather, if the anxiety happened fairly quickly, then your answer is here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me i.e. it wasn’t too much. It was about what it revealed. If it happened many weeks later, the anxiety and mood swings were because you were still underdosed, and stayed underdosed way too long. You don’t stay on those low doses longer than two weeks without raising.
Heather
Thanks for the help but all my thyroid numbers are where they need to be now. I’m just wondering about weight gain or loss on Nature Thyroid or ERFA and if ERFA is safe to take now and also if I stay on the same MG’s if I switch to ERFA.
Janie Bowthorpe
Heather, you don’t understand. This isn’t about your thyroid numbers. Please read the link I posted.
Anna
Is there general consensus that Nature-Throid is working better than Armour? I looked at the list of ingredients on the STTM, and it seems awfully long, including calcium which is known to bind thyroid hormone…but Thyroid-S also contains a lot of fillers and binders, and it is generally considered a good product, so the number of ingredients does not necessarily mean the product is bad (or so I try to tell myself…).
I don’t know if I got this wrong somehow, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that when NT was reformulated, methylcellulose (which is even more difficult to digest than microcrystalline cellulose) was replaced by MCC, but not that the amount of cellulose necessarily increased as a result…while the reformulation of Armour basically meant reversing the proportions between cellulose and sucrose, increasing the former and decreasing the latter…?
Janie Bowthorpe
Anna, there are folks who love Armour: there are folks who love Naturethroid; there are folks who love Acella; there are folks who love Thyroid-S….etc.
Nick
My most recent batch – LF03883A/05/17 seems to be working better.
Angie
Nick, if you don’t mind, where were you able to obtain that batch? Thanks!
Nick
Hi Angie, I get mine through Lloyds Pharmacy.
Angie
Thanks, NIck! That’s one I don’t have from the STTM site. Are you pretty happy with their Customer Service, etc.?
Nick
I get my ERFA prescribed by by (NHS) endo. I phone his secretary when I need some more, she gets the prescription from him, and then drops it in to the Lloyds pharmacy at the hospital. They make out the prescription, and send it via hospital transport, to the cottage hospital where I live. They phone me when it arrives, and I walk round to collect it.
So yes, I am happy with the whole process.
Angie
Thanks, Nick. I tried Lloyds but they don’t ship to the US. Glad they are working well for you, though.
Anne
Thanks for this info Nick, I guess your pharmacy stocks up from Pharmarama or Idis. I have a private prescription (NHS still won’t agree I’m hypo) and Pharmarama have batch LF04140 60mg expiry July 17, not sure whether to buy them or not as can’t find anyone else using that batch, although that’s probably good because it means no-one is complaining about it!
Sandra
Nick, I see you are on the batch that I have just got filled and am so hopeful that they are good. Are you still doing well?
See my comment below
Angie
Also the Health Canada website has ERFA being inspected on 310-2014 with a Type 3 risk, but DEL issued. DEL is license to manufacture, if I understand correctly.
Angie
Dear Janie…obtained the following from ERFA’s website regarding microbial contamination of another of their products. Maybe no relation to the problems some of us have been experiencing at all, but was related to a “manufacturing issue” and took place late August 2014. Hmmmmm…..http://3023581417d2979ec5cce126.alexandrevanierw.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/AMSA-NtH-ERFA-EN.pdf
Angie
Does anyone know of another Canadian pharmacy from which to obtain ERFA besides Canada Drug or The Canadian Pharmacy? While Canada Drug has been polite and helpful (can most definitely NOT say the same for Canada Drug), I got a lousy batch in November (14G0111) and would like to try one ot the batches with the LF prefix…
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, several are listed here at the bottom: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment
tyra
Angie… I ordered my Erfa from Universal Drug for years and years until the Erfa fiasco. They require a script. I never received my Erfa in
an original mfg’s bottle… always in a plain brown prescription bottle with a universal drug generated label even tho I ordered 300 quantity at a
time. They are very personable and helpful if you call them. You might telephone and see what the batch numbers and expiry dates are for
whatever Erfa they are currently shipping out. Whether they will tell you or not is a different story. lol
I believe they still sell Armour if you think that might help you. I don’t know if you have to have
a script that specifies a brand name or not. I always had my doctor write my script for natural desiccated thyroid in grains instead of milligrams
… no brand name.
Angie
Thanks Janie and Tyra! I will try some of these and see if I can get the LF lot #’s.
Sara MdC
Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info – much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. I’m pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?
I’ve been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. I’ve been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving – to a point – but I’ve crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. I’m just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, I’ll feel better. But it’s strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extent…I’m still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought I’d change. I’m battling daily with myself trying to believe that I’m doing the right thing switching to ERFA…and I’m hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! I’m also taking Cortef although it’s not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know you’ve got a prescription sorted. I’m hoping my doc will sort one out but she’s sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first – sigh …we’ve all been there! Anyhow…I mention the above in case you’ve any info that may help from your own experience – and if you can let me know about the batch number….great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X
Sara MdC
Thank you Janie. I’ll take a look at the forums and see if I can find someone to help. I think I’m so low as I stayed on 1 grain for weeks and weeks! Didnt realise. So everything has crashed down. I feel as bad now as I ever did but am just hoping I havent had a bad batch and that I’m simply just waiting for my body to catch up. I’m on 3 grains now but the dose won’t kick in properly for another 3 weeks at least I guess. In the meantime I’ll take the Cortef I need and find a specialist to help.
I’ve just ordered your book and the updated version too…so I’ll get to the bottom of it I’m sure. It’s been over 20 years…so a bit more patience should be OK…although it’s incredibly depressing feeling like I’m back at square 1!! Scrub that…I’m just at the start of the road to a proper recovery 🙂 Thanks Janie. Cheers, Sara X
Anne
Hi Sara, I’m in UK too, but haven’t found anyone to really help recently although I now see a private doctor in London and an NHS endo in Kent. I was originally diagnosed by Dr Skinner and also saw Dr Peatfield. He seems to know more than most doctors but ThyroidUK do have a list of helpful endos and doctors, NHS and private and also a forum through Health Unlocked. You mention the expiry date of your ERFA above, and give the DIN number, but do you also have the lot/batch number, which will be something like LF…..A with 5 numbers in the middle and could you also tell me where you got them? Pharmararma (importers) finally have some in stock with an expiry of 2017 which I am hoping will be definitely ok as I got a private prescription from a doctor London recently.
Sara MdC
Suddenly realised I put this in the main section rather than replying to you personally, Anne…so I’m reposting 🙂
Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info — much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. I’m pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?
I’ve been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. I’ve been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving — to a point — but I’ve crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. I’m just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, I’ll feel better. But it’s strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extent…I’m still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought I’d change. I’m battling daily with myself trying to believe that I’m doing the right thing switching to ERFA…and I’m hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! I’m also taking Cortef although it’s not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know you’ve got a prescription sorted. I’m hoping my doc will sort one out but she’s sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first — sigh …we’ve all been there! Anyhow…I mention the above in case you’ve any info that may help from your own experience — and if you can let me know about the batch number….great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X
Reply
Anne
Hi Sara, I did a search for that batch number and found two mentions of it, one is in a comparison photo which Janie put up here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/erfa-in-new-bottle-but-old-pill/ in example 4, to show the old and the new tablets (are your tablets speckled like those?), the other is on the Thyroid UK Health Unlocked forum where someone asks if they’re ok, no-one else had that batch and eventually she switched to NatureThroid and preferred it – but to find that you have to go through her old posts and probably be a member. So I’m afraid that I’m not sure whether they’ve ok or not. If you search for just the batch number you’ll come up with both those mentions plus this thread where you mention it.
I got my last lot in November 2013 from the same pharmacy as you and have been waiting ever since for them to get in some new batches. When I emailed them they admitted a lot of people had complained about them. Mine were a different batch from yours though, but what I find confusing is that people can have the same batch and some be ok and others not. I think it’s possibly a storage problem somewhere along the line.
When I first took NDT it was after taking both levo (125mcg) and T3 (40mcg) and I just felt fine during the switch over. I don’t think you should feel worse, specially as you’re taking Cortef. You said that you started on ERFA via an alternative doctor who “said my energy responded much better to ERFA” Do you mean that he did muscle testing to find that out, or used a pendulum or something like that? If so did he also try it with other forms of NDT at the same time, and was it that batch you now have that he used to test? Sorry for all the questions but this interests me as someone used energy to check if her ERFA would be ok for me and gave it to me as a back-up until I could get something else.
Have you joined any of the groups which Janie linked to? I think you may get a lot of help in some of them and I also think that if you go to an NHS endo feeling awful on NDT he’ll most likely try to switch you back to synthetics.
tyra
Hi, Sara. I see you mentioned that you got your Erfa from Inhouse? I also purchase WP by RLC Labs from them.
It seems with inhouse, as long as you have sent them a legit prescription on file, they will fill with any natural thyroid brand name you wish. Have you thought about trying another NDT instead of the Erfa?
I take WP. My hubby takes Armour. I had previously sent my rx to Inhouse for my WP. A few months later, I
ordered the Armour for my hubby. The order went thru with no problem. I waited for them to tell me I needed
a prescription for the Armour (I had the rx all copied in my ‘puter, ready to forward to them) and when I didn’t hear from them, I called and asked if I should send them the rx. They said if I wanted to I could but it wasn’t necessary, that the order had already shipped. hmmm… so.. apparently as long as they have a script on file, they aren’t too particular what brand name you order or how often. This was about a year ago. I assume this policy is still in place.
Sara MdC
Firstly thank you so much for all the information Janie. Sincerely appreciated. I hope you can help. I’m not sure if I’m on the right meds/supps or not! I was on Levothyroxine 100mcg for a few years and then saw Dr Barry Peatfield in the UK (thyroid and adrenal specialist) as I simply wasnt getting better..or I should say I’d improved but wasnt nearly there. He addressed my adrenals and I took NAX (Nutri Adrenal Extra) and eventually Cortef (Hydrocortisone) which were life savers. Whilst I was able to lead a reasonably normal life, I’ve never felt great, so in December 14 I was told to switch to ERFA but an alternative specialist. He said my energy responded much better to ERFA. He told me the equivalent dose was 60mg (1 grain) What he didnt tell me was that that was a starting dose! So for a while my pain over my thyroid decreased and my heart rate became stable but then I had the most almighty crash!! I couldnt afford the follow up appt to the specialist and as he didnt tell me I’d prob need to raise my dose I was unaware. That’s when I started doing lots of research again and came across your site (thank you again) I upped my dose to 2 grains, figuring that I’d been on 100mcg of Levo before…I’d up the dose quicker than some. 4 weeks on (today) I’ve improved somewhat but not fully (some days I’m ok, ish, and others like today I’m on the floor). Dr Peatfield has asked me to increase my dose again by 30-60mg of ERFA and I did that last Sunday so I’m waiting to find out how things will pan out. I chose to up it by another grain as this should be pretty comparable to my previous Levo T4 100mcg dose, I’m hoping this will be OK. (gulp!) I’m posting on here because I’m concerned I may be doing the wrong thing. Is ERFA right for me? Is it the right dose? Am I feeling bad cos I’ve had a bad batch? (today I’m aching all over, feeling yuck with no energy) and I don’t know why. I’ve never had a feeling of being totally cured, I don’t know if I’m on the right adrenal support and I have had so much advice from different people, I’m not sure who to listen to now! I’m in the UK and would so love a doctor who would hold my hand through all this. I have a specialist appt at the end of April with an NHS endocrine guy, but I don’t hold out much hope because, as you quite rightly point out, we have to teach them. I’ve been reading about Vitamin D and the iron stuff and suddenly there’s more info. Where on earth do I go to find the right person to work with in the UK? (South?) I’m not sure if Dr Peatfield has all the answers but I can go back to him…but what with the expense of all the meds and supps I’m on, it’s about finding the budget. Anyhow..sorry for waffling on, but if you have any advice on who to see, what to do, whether my dose is OK etc etc…great! I’ve started taking 1 grain 3 times a day (spacing them out) but I’m going to try 2 grains a.m. and 1 in the pm. as that’s been suggested. I’m also on 2 x NAX and 10 to 15mg of Cortef. As this is a steroid, this also brings concerns…but it clearly helps! Thanks for reading. Cheers Sara X
Sara MdC
p.s. worth noting my product number is DIN 00023957 60mg with the light green stripe on the bottle and the expiry date is 10/2016 xx
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Sara! With all that I do, I’m unable to get into much feedback like this. But I can say I’m optimal on 3 1/2 grains, just for comparison, though folks are different. And we’ve found that 10-15 mg Cortef is inadequate if saliva revealed seriously low cortisol recently, but perhaps you are weaning. Here’s where you can join patient groups, under #2 here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others and get great feedback!
Sandra M.
Janie Bowthorpe:
Just curious if you’re still on Erfa? What brand and dosage are you currently on? How are you feeling? Thanks!
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, still on Erfa and feeling great. 3 1/2 grains. So far, knock on wood, I don’t appear to have gotten the lousy batches.
Ellen
Hi Tyra and Janie, Thank you both for the information. I will take my temperature to get further information. I am not experiencing the symptoms I had long ago when I was first diagnosed: cold hands and feet, fatigue, hair loss, etc. Only heart palpitations and missed beats and occasionally a bit hyper feeling. It is amazing, to me, how quickly the heart palpitations ceased when I switched back to Erfa. The Acella pills are so small, I wouldn’t know how to decrease the amount. I will see my doctor in April and get new labs and ask for a cortisol test.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ellen, just because those symptoms are different than they used to be doesn’t mean they are less significant. They are clear symptoms that you are either underdosed, or they are revealing an adrenal and/or iron problems. And the size of the pills have nothing to do with it. It’s the mg amount that does. It’s not about decreasing. It’s about finding out what your current amount is “revealing”. The cortisol test you want is not a blood test, by the way, which uniformed doctors tend to order. You need to do saliva testing. You also need to order all four iron labs. All explained here: https://stopthethroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Shanna
Hello Ellen, I too was taking Erfa for years and switched to Acella NP and immediately had heart palpitations, dizziness and hair shedding. The symptoms stopped immediately after I skipped a dose. My ferritin was 40 when I took the first pill…I will never take Acella NP again.
Ellen
I took Erfa after the Armour reformulation and did very well using half of the 125 mg tablet per day which is 36.5 mcg T4 and 8.5 mcg T3, The Erfa 60 mg, 35 mcg T4 and 8 mcg T3, was not strong enough. When reports of sickness were reported with Erfa last fall, I changed to Acella thyroid 60 mg per day. I felt fine for the first month and then began having palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling. I couldn’t figure out what was causing these symptoms but then the other day, I decided to skip a dose of Acella and I was able to sleep through the night without palpitations and the next day I took an old Erfa that I had and still feel fine. Could the Acella have inconsistent amounts of thyroid? Wondering if I should try another brand of NDT? Since the US brands are all 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 they may all cause palpitations or would there be a difference in how they are absorbed? I did well on 60 mg of Armour for 10 plus years before it was changed. Would appreciate any input. Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
Ellen, 60 mg is simply a starting dose from which we have to raise from…and again…and again. So that’s probably why you had those issues on just 60 mg. Read https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Ellen
Janie, thanks for the reply. I read the link you provided but am still confused.
Initially, my doctor started me on a very low dose and we worked up to 60mg Armour where I stayed for many, many years.
I did have a lot of energy at times on it. When I took Erfa, I felt the best on their formula of a little less T3 and T4. Now with a little higher
amounts of T3, T4, it seems to be a tad too much. How would I decrease to get the same effect?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Ellen. Doctors don’t understand yet how to use NDT. In most cases, you don’t start as low as it sounds you were started. We start at 60 mg aka one grain, and build up from there. It’s all explained in the link I gave you. Click on it and you’ll get a lot of good info based on years of wisdom. 🙂
tyra
Hi, Ellen. This is not to contradict anything that Janie has told you. She is the pro as far as I am concerned but….
My story is so similar to yours. I take 60mg/90mg, alternating days. I have been on NDT for over twenty years and went to Erfa from Armour when they changed the formulation some years back and did just fine on it. I now take WP but have tried the NP Acella and I liked it. I didn’t take it as long as you… just tried it out for a few weeks. This was when I was changing from the messed up Erfa to another brand of NDT… trying them all.
I read and researched a lot about the Acella and the only complaints I ever heard/read about were from a few folks who had some hyper symptoms on NP. I am just guessing here but I think the NP is better absorbed than some other NDTs out there? So maybe a lower dose of NP would be more appropriate for some?
I think there is a small sub-set group of NDT users like you and I who don’t require a lot of NDT to be stable. I did suffer from cold intolerance all those years but I had always had that problem since I was
a child. I always felt I might like to bump up my NDT dosage but every time I tried it, I would get heart palps. A few years ago, I started supplementing with Lugols/Iodoral iodine and after about a year and slowly working up to 12.5 mgs of iodine, the cold intolerance/ cold nose/feet resolved itself and no more heart palps either. And my tsh (which I know isn’t a particularly good indicator) dropped down to 1./-.1 all by itself with no adjustment made in my NDT dosage.
I was originally put on Synthroid before my doc let me try the Armour…. this was all back in the early
nineties. That year on Synthroid I call my year in hell….lol. I experienced profound exhaustion, horrible short-memory problems, depression (I am never depressed) and I ached from head to toe, especially in my leg bones. So.. I know what hypo symptoms feel like. When I went on Armour all those years ago, it was like the sun came out. This just to share that I know what hypo symptoms feel like and after all that misery, a little cold intolerance was no big deal.
You might want to try the WP by RLC Labs and see if it suits you better than the NP by Acella. Or… try cutting back your NP to say… 45mg/60mg every other day or even 45 mg per day. Experiment and see how you do. We are all so different and people seem to do better on one brand of NDT over another it seems. It is a shame that docs aren’t more open to letting us try different brands in order to find the best match for us.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, you can basically put everyone in these percentage categories on a continuum, we’ve noticed. i.e. the majority on the continuum end up being optimal in the 2 grain to 3 grain area. I am in that majority at the higher end of it at 3 1/2 grains, and my husband is in the lower end of that majority at 2 grains, but we’re going to test to see if he needs a tad more. A smaller percentage, but still a fair size group, are higher than the 2-3 grain area, such as 4 grains and higher. A smaller percentage are optimal at less than 2 grains. One of the doctors who contributed a chapter in the STTM II book is the latter.
So when trying to find your optimal dose, “optimal” seems to equal several things: 1) having a free T3 in the upper quarter of the range–that is important and we’ve seen it repeatedly the past decade when someone is truly optimal 2) the removal of nearly all symptoms clearly related to being hypo for “you” 3) having a mid-afternoon temp close to 98.6F/37C (not done at ovulation or after) 4) having a before-getting-out-of-bed morning temp of 97.8F to 98.2F (using a mercury thermometer in mouth for at least 5 minutes, and not done at ovulation or after) 5) having a good heartrate and blood pressure.
But if on any of the lower doses, one has what Ellen described (palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling), that is definitely not optimal and has nothing to do with “NP Thyroid making some hyper”. It either means one isn’t on enough (because still being hypo can result in excess adrenaline–your body’s way of being alarmed by still being hypo), or it can mean you have revealed that you have either low cortisol or low iron. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me The latter is very informative and important.
Hope that helps. Reported patient experiences rock!
Anne
I’d be interested to know if anyone has batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but am not going to risk buying them without knowing they are ok. Thanks!
Angie
Hi Anne: I don’t have this batch, but am considering ordering a batch with similar lot # LF 04245A..Let us know how you do. It appears as if the “LF” batches, at least the later ones, are okay. At least from the comments I’ve seen recently. Y’all (yes, I am from the South), please correct me if I am wrong.
Sam
Hi,
Anyone tried LF03506A, exp. 02/2017? Is it working, how are you feeling?
Frieda Dekeyzer
Ik heb LF03506A Exp 02/2017
Ik heb ritmestoornissen ben heel erg moe en heb vreselijke spierpijnen
Geen arts die wat vindt nu weet ik het na dit opzoekwerk !!!!! Die erfa deugt niet
(The above is her Erfa batch and expiration, and the rest seems to translate to: “I’m very tired and arrhythmias have terrible muscle pains No doctor likes what I now know after this research work !!!!! That is no good ERFA.”)
Suze
This continues to be a very serious issue and I keep looking to see if there has been any resolution. Gosh – I didn’t even know about this issue with BAD BATCHES of Erfa until late last year when I began feeling ill, came to this site to find some answers, and was hit with a firestorm of reports of bad batches.
Having read through all the comments in the May and June 2014 blogs, I see it started in late 2013. Some of us had pill supplies from the good batches which lasted us well into 2014; I was one of those.
I just spent some hours reading all the comments. I started a chart of the lot numbers that were bad, and the dates, and symptoms. But I got to over 70 and can’t continue – too exhausting. I now see that Janie asked in Aug 2014 if someone would do such a chart. I will just summarize my main findings: the trouble with Erfa started before they moved from Belgium to Spain. Some new bad pills were put in old bottles. Most troubles started around January 2014, proving that batches made in 2013 were already suspect. But most of the bad batches were exp. 2016. People have speculated that it could be: heavy metal, gluten or other contaminants; contaminated raw thyroid gland; feeding the pigs GMO grain; and other possibilities.
People have asked for/said they would get the old and new batches of pills tested by an independent lab, as Erfa has never tested for anything but t3/t4/filler composition, apparently; but I can’t find any results yet. I myself was wanting to do that, as I was so enraged at my ups and downs with the pills. Different results from pills in the same prescription bottle.
The July 2017 batch of 30s was good but the Aug 2017 was bad! Worrying every day whether the pill would throw me into some kind of distress, or leave me feeling well and functional. If I rest enough and get the strength I’ll finish the chart and post it. I exclude anyone who wasn’t ALREADY doing well on Erfa. The problem is it’s a very long document even summarizing the symptoms. I could do the chart without the symptoms to save space. I’ve been trying to be logical and use the 125 mg batch exp. 8/15 that I last got which seems OK. Mind you I am still swinging hypo and hyper from being on crazy batches for at least half a year, and it takes time to rebuild the health. But my good batch will not last forever and it is surely the last of the old formulation. I have to prepare to ask my dr. to order Armour or Naturethroid from the states and hope he will do it and hope it works. So, has anyone actually submitted the bad pills to a lab to look for contaminants?
Anne
Suze well done for trying to make up a chart of all this. I tried to last year and gave up, it was too confusing especially when I found some people were saying a certain batch was bad when others said the same batch was fine.
I wondered about having an old tablet and a new one analysed (I have both) and enlisted the help of a family member who is a pharmacist, but could not find anyone willing to do it. It seemed the only way for it to be done at minimal cost would be through a university research lab. If you find someone able to do this I would happily send you a couple of my old tablets and some of the bad batch, all 125mgs.
My bad batch was bought in November 2013 and I had an allergic type reaction it, with almost immediate stomach problems and then dizziness, faintness and palpitations, which took hours to get better, so to me it was nothing to do with the amount of T3 or T4 etc in the tablets, it was definitely something else. But that batch, made in the old factory, was in a bottle with one of the new labels. Because of the awful reaction I only took the tablets for 3 days and Dr Knafo, although he kept in contact with me, would not take my concerns seriously because he wanted me to have blood tests showing a difference since starting them. He also seemed to think the problem was only happening among readers of STTM here and on Facebook, despite my having directed him to other forums where the problems were being discussed. Unfortunately this belief also seems to have permeated other places now.
I switched to Thyroid-S, my labs are higher than ever before but I feel don’t feel as well as I did and know I must switch to something else again. I am in the UK and have a private prescription for ERFA, but can’t afford to lose any more money on a bad batch and also have the ongoing worry of when the next bad batches will appear. I did very well on ERFA for several years and I think Dr Knafo’s attitude was an awful abandonment, on the part of the whole ERFA company, of our concerns but far more of our health and long-term well-being. I wish we could do something to ensure they, and their manufacturers, take issues of safety more seriously in future.
Caroll
I really like this website for what it brings to the thyroid community. But please stop this non sense of conspiracy theory.
It never occurred to you that if Erfa didn’t “confess” it’s because they never lied???
You have a strange way to thank the company that helped you for years… I’m sorry but people change. If Erfa doesn’t work for you anymore fare enough! Change your medication and stop complaining about a contamination that doesn’t exist!!
This medication is perfect for me (it’s been 5 years!) and I’m certainly not alone.
Please stop criticize without end about a good product that doesn’t work anymore for you but still is a miracle for a big majority of patients.
Anne
Where is the conspiracy theory? My last batch of 500 ERFA thyroid tablets made me too sick and dizzy to function within half an hour of taking them. I went back to an old batch which were fine. I tried the new ones once more and once again I was too sick and dizzy to function, the ild batch were still fine for me. Someone mentioned a similar problem on the Thyroid UK forum, I came here and also went to Mary Shomon’s blog and found others with the same batch as mine having identical symptoms. This batch was made in the old factory in Belgium not the new one, so I knew whatever the problem was, it was different from others here. I have suggested several times that it may be to do with transportation or storage en route and not to do with different fillers.
I live in England and do not have the luxury of doctors who happily prescribe NDT. I have to persuade them that it works and I also have to pay for it in full because it is only allowed on private prescription in my area. I was able to get a year’s supply which is too expensive for me to make another mistake, and because of the number of people who have complained about newer batches since the beginning of last year, my endocrinologist is very unwilling to prescribe it again. I have one private prescription left and need to ensure I get a batch which others have no problem with.
My annoyance with the ERFA company is in part that, however kind and concerned Dr Knafo was in our very many emails, he wanted something to show up in blood tests. Naturally enough I was not prepared to continue taking my latest ERFA and becoming non-functioning for six weeks, to do this. Even my endocrinologist thought that dangerous.
Further confusion is that, when I last contacted someone on a different forum about the various current batches, because I would still like to take ERFA in preference to anything else, I was told that it was only people on STTM who had had any bad batches at all. Mary Shomon’s blog no longer shows the relevant posts and the people who posted on Thyroid UK have moved on to other brands, so it is almost impossible to verify that.
As for my having ‘a strange way to thank the company that helped’ me for years, I felt so well on it for five years that I am still trying to take ERFA, which is surely some thanks to them! I didn’t report them to the various health authorities that others suggested over the last year and I kept in polite contact with Dr Knafo until he left. However, there will now be a doubt about what happened and whether it will happen again, because, if it was nothing to do with the manufacture, then it is to do with the storage and transportation and therefore out of the control of the company itself.
This is almost the last place we can compare notes on this issue, please do not try to discourage anyone from doing that or to belittle the very real bad reactions a few of us had to a few of the batches of an otherwise excellent product – something most of us have never denied.
Janie Bowthorpe
Anne, your experience is not alone. There were enough folks all over the world who were once doing well on Erfa, then when they picked up new batches, were not anymore, that it became clear that there were, in fact, some bad batches out there. Granted, some have not experienced them like Caroll, but enough had that it’s pretty clear something went wrong with some of them, even though Erfa was not going to acknowledge it. It’s not just about “STTM” folks. It was reported elsewhere as well, but some leaders are more “political” than others and don’t want to comment. Hang in there! I hope you find a better NDT for you! Hopefully more will comment about the newer batches that are now working better and folks can move to those or move away from Erfa completely for not acknowledging the bad batches–the latter which was a big turnoff for many.
Dianne
I sang high praises for ERFA Thyroid for the first 6 years I took it, so not only was I shocked and devastated at the change (whatever it is) in the tablets, I was equally shocked at the unwillingness of ERFA to do anything about truly investigating it. And ultimately, yes, I’m very turned off by ERFA. To me, logically, medications don’t stop working for no reason, like it’s a fault of mine. And medications that have previously made us feel well, don’t just suddenly cause horrible reactions for no reason at all.
Some of us aren’t so lucky, either, to be able to ‘change our medication and stop complaining’. Did you know that in Canada ERFA is the ONLY NDT by prescription available to us? So finding a decent replacement has been really difficult.
Angie
Dear Carroll: Would like to set the record straight here. I had been taking ERFA since 2009 with great success until early 2014 when a batch from The Canadian Pharmacy made me feel awful. TCP was non-responsive and ERFA was not much better. I could switch back to older ERFA or Nature-throid and symptoms would disappear, so this wasn’t me. There was most definitely something wrong with the batch. I tried some later LF prefix batches and did ok, although one batch did feel extraordinarily strong. When ERFA supposedly looked into the problem, I asked (coming from a laboratory background) to see the data and was refused unless I would sign an agreement not to publicize what I saw. Since others had had problems and I had a moral dilemma with that agreement, I refused. So…no cigar. I do not do as well on other thyroid meds as the old ERFA a/o non-problematic batches. One later batch LF03508A, I did reasonably well on, so there is some inconsistency. A recent batch 14G0111, was again “dodgy”. I find your comments uninformed and short-sighted. While I am glad you are doing well on the ERFA that you have obtained, there are over 800 comments on this site alone and more comments on other thyroid sites expressing similar concerns and problems.
Suze
I decided not to do any more on my chart as there is really no big outcry anymore and we are a minority. I have the eight pages of notes which are mostly from comments in the May blog but it’s representative enough. Some people became ill; others had hypo symptoms return such as hair loss, fatigue and weight gain. All of us did well on Erfa before and have no reason to make this up. If we did not become ill or hypo, we’d be the ones scoffing. Maybe we are deluding ourselves? It’s true that some people had no ill effects. My doctor and pharmacist showed no interest in my reporting bad batches that were making me ill. The pharmacist had heard no other complaints. I am still having ups and downs with my doses even when I try adding Synthroid and use my old Erfa which worked last year, so anyone can point to that and say it’s not the Erfa to blame for my ups and downs. All I know is that for two years I was relatively stable taking Erfa and that stopped sometime after starting a new prescription in mid-2014 for 30s and 60s. At this point I realize it’s time to move on and we are really on our own here, and there is not going to be any movement to change Erfa back. I have read about changes in formulation to Armour and Naturethroid which caused a big upheaval, and lots of Eltroxin and Synthroid were recalled years ago as well, and so this is not even new. Maybe all of us just happened to get symptoms from something else. Maybe there were only a few pills in the bad batches and we happened to get them. Whatever the case we are on our own at the mercy of the thyroid pill manufacturers because we need these pills to live. The quality of our life does not seem to be a factor as long as we are taking our pills. I think back to the biggest lie of all which my original endocrinologist said when convincing me to get the radiation. “You will only need to take one little pill a day for the rest of your life and you will be fine, but if you don’t have the radiation you will remain sick.” This little pill was synthroid; I was never fine. I’ve been fine at times on Synthroid plus Cytomel; never on either of those alone. I’ve been pretty well on Erfa and hope to be again. Right now, still having ups and downs.
Dianne
Suze, I don’t blame you for not wanting to do any more on the chart. I also feel the big outcry has dwindled away, and the minority of us who have had issues with the new ERFA are pretty much on our own to figure out what we’ll do.
I have a couple of tablets with 2017 expiry date that I was going to try, but they have dark specks and are shiny-looking, so I think I’ll pass on them. I’ll see if I can find some 2017 stock somewhere that looks like the old ERFA and give those a try. btw, none of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to have heard any other complaints about the new ERFA, either.
Good luck to you.
LAHa
Suze: You know, you are right, I was wondering if it was something they were feeding the pigs. If you change country of manufacture (Belgium to Spain) maybe the origin of the pigs is different. Maybe (upon analysis) the T4 and the T3 is the same as before and correct but maybe the pigs were filled with antibiotics, GMO feed, or worse. From my limited experience with mass spectroscopy the scientists only do target analyses, i.e. they look for what they expect to see and measure their quantities (e.g. T4 and T3). They do not take a full spectrum of everything present – because (guess what) that would be too expensive, and, to be fair, very complex with organic molecules. The offending chemical could be lost in the weeds of the background signals (i.e. signal to noise ratio too low). This information can be “teased out” but it takes a very long time and you have to have some idea where to look. This is why no difference has been seen following the ERF analyses. The answer would be, as suggested, give it to a university lab where a graduate student can sit on the experiment for a month if they feel like it – of course the instrument may drift out of calibration during that time!! Not always easy to find the truth.
Marge
I didn’t know anything about this until today! When I picked up my renewed Efra prescription early Jan. 2015 within 3 days I became very sick! flu like symptoms, basically in and out of bed for 7 weeks! Called my Pharmacist because this all started with my Thyroid pills, wanting to find out did I have the right pills? Did they change manufacturer’s. I called 3 times because I felt so sure it was these pills. I even went in to the Pharmacy to check the bottle they were using. When in mid February I ended up on the floor in horrific pain, I called the Pharmacist again about these pills. He told me to call my Specialist immediately, which I did and was taken off immediately and after 7 weeks all of these horrible symptoms stopped. I’m having thyroid blood work this week and seeing my Specialist in 3 weeks but of course being off my medication has left me with numerous problems. Bottom Line: I discovered this blog today and realized I wasn’t crazy! Also learning this medication is derived from desiccated pig (porcine) thyroid gland and creates dosing problems because there is no way to standardize the exact amount of the dose for each batch. My batch is LF04245A Expiry August 2017 and there IS something very wrong with it. I called Erfa, what a waste of time.
Janice the Elder
I’ve been getting a compounded levo-thyroxine, with the only thing added being some glucose powder. However, doing some sleuthing about the factories that produce levo-thyroxine, I find that it is derived onto a substrate of microcrystalline cellulose. Therefore, nobody even needs to add cellulose for there to be some. I have come up with a solution for myself. Since my compounded stuff comes in a capsule, I empty the capsule into a coffee filter sitting in a strainer, positioned over a cup. I then pour cold water over the powder. I looked up cellulose, and it pretty much does not dissolve in water. The levo-thyroxine does dissolve. After the water drains through, I pour the water into another cup, place the strainer and filter back on the first cup, and pour the water through again. I do this four or five times. I then just drink the water. I use the same filter for about three days, and by the third day there is a fair amount of white powder on the coffee filter, so I discard it and use a new filter. I was quite hypothyroid to begin with, and my numbers keep getting better, so I know I am getting the levo-thyroxine into my system. I did tell my doctor about this, and she told me that as long as my numbers keep getting better, to keep doing what I’m doing.
BrianZee
I live in Canada and have been taking ERFA thyroid for many years. In the last year or so I feel like my hypo symptoms have returned– fatigued , irritable, brain fog, etc. I just had my had my full medical plus all my labs, all normal, TSH suppressed, Free T4/T3 mid to upper range plus ferritin normal. I feel the ERFA does not have the efficacy it once had. I used to take compounded porcine thyroid back when ERFA took over production from Parke Davis and there was a shortage. The compounded worked as long as there was no cellulose. What to do!??
Tanya
Likely this is a distribution issue.
However, I wonder if anyone else has done really poorly [as in side effects that caused you to stop taking it] on ERFA from the get-go?
My first experience was with them last year 2014, so not sure if I had some of the “bad pills” or am just intolerant to unstable T3 levels in the drug.
Jen
I.had.no.idea. Now I know how I went from feeling great to not. I’ve suffered a year. Thanks for all of the conversation. Just have to figure out my own plan now. Anyone know a good Dr. in southern Ontario, Canada?
Char
Jen
I am in Southern On as well and I go to a Nurse Practitioner. I find they are much more compassionate and willing to learn and work with you when it comes to NDT. Search out London On, Nurse practitioner.
Jen
Thanks Char! I’m on ERFA Thyroid, but I have all my old symptoms and some new ones (hives!). I’m going to try the hormone health clinic in Oakville.
Suze
My batch of Erfa that expired July 2017 was fine. I just renewed it and could only get Aug 2017. I was startled to see that they were shiny like the 2016 batches that were bad. But I gave them a chance and had a terrible panic attack for no reason. What could be in those pills? Inconsistent amounts of T3 and T4? I can’t even guess what’s wrong. I was doing absolutely fine on dividing the dose until I ran out of the good batch. If it happened to you, would you continue to give the new batch a chance or go back to the old bad batch or search drug stores demanding to look at the pills until you see some that are not shiny? I do not want to get ridiculous over this but there is absolutely no reason I’d have an attack on the dose that worked great for me before.
Cheryl
I live in Canada and have been on ERFA for many years. I have never seen any of these shiner blotchy pills with more of an indent. The pills I have are the same I’ve always had before. Strange I haven’t seen these other ones.
Maleia
I’ve been on Erfa for three months now. I never had any major symptoms but my TSH was ranging from 3.3-4.5 over the past two years and FT3 and FT4 were low. My reverse T3 ratio was way too high also. (Was negative for Hashis). I’ve only been on 1/2 grain and my recent test came back with TSH down to 1.9 and FT3 and FT4 increased to mid range now (was lower range). My RT3 ratio much better. I’ve just upped to 1 grain to try to get a higher FT3 and drop my TSH further. I feel really good, just concerned as i’ve never had very serious symptoms and this low dose seems to be working to get my numbers in line, but keep reading my dose is super low… when I increased to 1 grain this week felt like intense caffeine reaction, but less reaction a couple of days into it as body must be adjusting. Love Erfa though, been very happy with it.
Kris
Yeah, you feel better on ERFA compared to Synthroid but you could probably feel even BETTER. The TSH test the doctors use are terrible and most people feel bad in their ranges. You don’t have to have serious symptoms to be concerned… just annoying ones are enough. When my TSH was in the 1’s, I would stutter or sentences would just come out all jumbled. That isn’t anything serious.. I don’t get paid to talk to people so it’s not like I’d risk losing a job..but it was still an annoying problem. Being cold all the time because your body temp is around 97.1 instead of 98.6 also sucks.
Penny
I have been on EFA 30 mg for only going on three months now.. Via my natural path Dr .. The only thing I can comment on is I was getting extremely tired this last month, but figured it was because I stopped my vitamin B shots. Now taking vitamin B vitamin capsules and my energy is picking up. I am going for new blood work two days from now..see my natural path Tuesday to get results and will find out then the new results. I will inquire if or what she has heard about NDT EFA.. Thank you for all your post on Thyroid issues!
Janie Bowthorpe
Penny, unfortunately, you have been SEVERELY underdosed and for far too long. 30 mg is half of a starting dose. We’ve learned to start on 60 mg (one grain) then start raising by approx. 30 mg (1/2 grain) every two weeks until we’ve found a dose that removes all symptoms. I, Janie, am optimal on 3 1/2 grains….but everyone is a little different on what their optimal amount is. So that’s why you feel extremely tired!! You have now been made worse! Read this page carefully: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 because you’re going to have to teach your Naturopath how to dose with NDT better…or find a much better practitioner….
Tanya
I disagree Janice. Some of us have a sensitive system and need to start very low. I was on a 1/4 of what you consider a starting dose and had side effects within 5 days. Then the dose was increased slowly over time and side effects worsened and increased. We are as you said, all different. Having a good practitioner who takes time to watch and monitor you is the best thing in the world. I think Penny is fortunate indeed!
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Tanya. Hey, most of what STTM represents isn’t about “opinion”. It’s about patient experiences and wisdom. And for most, it’s been reported that one grain aka 60 mg, has been ideal for a starting dose. But it’s okay if someone needs to take less, too. But you might also benefit from reading this, because it sounds like you: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Monica
Thankfully I’ve not had any problems so far. I’m very happy on Erfa. On the other hand, I don’t know which batches I’ve had, but I’ve been on it for about 15 months now.
Cathy Poland
It’s nice to see some more comments on this. After stopping the ‘bad’ batches of Erfa early this fall and using over the counter thyroid like nutri meds for a few months, when I restarted the 125mg Erfa exp .4/’17 recently, it did feel too strong. Now, after a few weeks, I’m fine with it.
With the cold weather here in Canada and having been sick with colds, flu too much recently, I may use up my Nutri meds in the afternoon as well as the morning Erfa and see if it helps.
Suze
I was not satisfied with the new Erfa – I was getting pins and needles in my hands and feet. I thought I must have become sensitive to the pork or something in the new formulation was completely toxic to me. So like an idiot I went on plain Synthroid. The second day I had a 15 hour hyper/anxiety attack, 3 hours after taking the dose. After analyzing which was worse, I am back on Erfa. I’d rather have tingling hands and feet than massive anxiety from whatever the synthetic T4 was doing in my system. So here I go again, low dose (1 grain) of Erfa, until I am absolutely sure it is safe to raise it a tiny bit. I would rather be in severe brain fog and sleepy all the time than ever go through a nightmare Synthroid attack again. It’s always: who do you trust? They’re all out for profit; they all make mistakes in manufacturing. So you read people’s results. Erfa users still have far fewer major complaints than Synthroid users. And then there’s the big thing = you have to give it 6 weeks to work; the body has to “get used to it.” I have rarely been that patient but I am going to stick it out and if I keep having horrible results it’s got to be something else besides thyroid and I’m going to see a naturopath. My doctors always go, “whaaa? I don’t know….”
Um
Right, and for those of us that have gone through this for 10+ years, a bad batch or a formula change is a regular thing even if years go by before we’re in this mess again. Yeah, ERFA handled this badly and played stupid…but at this point, what are they going to do? Come back and admit they were wrong? Unlikely.
And really, you should’ve tried another brand of NDT instead of going back to Synthroid. Doctors in general suck. They don’t know anything that they can’t check off a chart.
Kris
It does not take 6 weeks to kick in. That is just what your doctors tell you when you are on Synthroid and they retest your TSH every 6 weeks to make sure it stays high where you are hypo and feel like crap.
I do not have a thyroid and can tell instantly if something is working for me or not. I let it dissolve under my tongue. You can feel it kicking in like you would feel anything else. It’s kind of like people who are dependent on caffeine or alcohol and need it to pick them up to give them energy… or how you take something for pain relief and feel it fade. You just feel it kicking in. Stick with NDT, get optimized or close to it and then you’d understand everything your Synthroid doctor told you was wrong.
Sandra
Hi everyone,
I DO want everyone to know that when I started a new batch of Erfa LF03833A expiry 05/2017 have had an improvement. I did as suggested when I was not feeling well and had a ton of blood work done and also tested my heart as I was having palpitations and had a murmur. Along with just feeling pure crap all the time, antisocial, I had a strange symptom of achy lungs, could not do any inclines, even mild ones when I walked without that symptom. I also had a dull ache and lower arm weakness. My results showed I was hyper, ferritin ok and so I lowered it from 5.5 grains to 5 grains and felt better on the new pills. I even invited friends over for the first time in a year this past two weekends and it does feel wonderful to participate in life again. I walk 50- 60 minutes a day now with none of those sypmtoms and am not fatigued from it. I have also been involved in part of a sexual harrassment case at work between a manager and young part time girls and I would never have had the strength to help them with the way I felt before.
Now I know you are all going to say, ah well, she was hyper all along, but if that was the case then why when I tried to lower it before on the crummy Erfa, did I not feel better like I did this time?
I guess the only way to be sure is to try some of those crummy pills again but I just can’t bring myself to do that right now. I am playing catch up with my life.
Marjaana
Sandra, I have been very well since starting this same batch as you. Please people, read the older comments too. I have report my better feelings earlier and still feeling great on Erfa again!
Pete
I also have a bottle from the same batch and it’s working! Actually it’s a second one in a row (from the same batch that I received from my pharmacy). The only batch I’ve had problems with so far was Lot: 18G051 Exp: 07/2016. I really hope it was just a temporary thing with the bad batches!
Trisha
Any RECENT updates of ERFA from Nov. or December 2014? Until solid,
consistent efficacy with ERFA is once again reported by patients – ERFA will
remain doubtful and questionable at best. For me, an unquestionable medication – is NOT am option.
I am now back on Armour which once again is working AFTER they tweaked it 2 years following its reformulation in ’09/2010.
I do NOT do well on Nature-Throid (it just misses the mark), and after 5 weeks on Thiroyd – I realized, it falls short, as I
became mildly depressed two weeks later, and in retrospect could clearly see
how impaired & unproductive I had become.
So now without adrenal issues, & increasing my FERRITEN level, I am
stable once again on Armour. Until
ERFA is able to demonstrate its efficacy
by patient comments, I won’t be going back to it!
Anyone KNOW how much sales have
declined & plummeted? It’s got to be a
drastic reduction! Are they wearing blinders or what?
Ruth
The problem is that people feeling good on Erfa won’t take the time to put a comment on this website. This is why I do it
I FEEL GOOD on it. And I’m not alone! My pharmacist told me that he still sells a lot of Erfa Thyroid. He even sells more than before and he doesn’t have complaint about it. I think it’s important to say it. A product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist…
Janie Bowthorpe
Ruth, we’ve watched and worked with NDT for years now. And yes, everyone has their favorite as to what they feel works best for them. But…this was never just about “a product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist”. There were too many patients who, after years of doing wonderful on Erfa just like you, suddenly found themselves doing absolutely awful when they refilled their prescription. It was clear that something terrible was done those those pills, even though Erfa proceeded to deny it.
Ruth
I understand your point and I’m really sorry about patients who went wrong after a refill. I’ve decided to trust erfa and to trust Health Canada. They wouldn’t have allowed a change like this.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sadly, Erfa and/or Health Canada clearly did allow a terrible change like this, even if they didn’t realize what had happened, or aren’t going to say so. 🙁 But luckily, some of the new batches aren’t affecting people so badly, so we can hope this 2014 fiasco will fade away. It’s just too bad no one was honest about it.
Angie
I agree with Janie. I had taken ERFA with GREAT success since the initial Armour reformulation in 2009. I also had success with one newer batch and now am having problems on another. I reported this to Canada Drug who were much more responsive than The Canadian Pharmacy regarding the problems. I would once again become ERFA’s #1 fan if they would admit they had a problem and correct it. However, you can not change what you do not acknowledge and it appears that they are still peddling batches that are inconsistent.
Um
I would read through the old posts on this page. You posted a general question on a page that isn’t followed often and some have tried ERFA and reported back. It’s one of those things you’ll either have to avoid it longer or take a chance and decide for yourself. Like everything else in the world, some posters or reviewers will hate it and others will love it.
Angie
I do not know about ERFA’s sales. What I am interested in is the “tweaking” that you mention of Armour’s 2009 reformulation. Do you know this for a fact? Janie, any comment? Thanks! Oh and this comment is for Trisha.
Anna
Trisha,
Do you notice Armour working differently now than before? I have read so many negative reviews on reformulated Armour that I have hesitated to try it…but do you think it is working better now than before?
Anne
Has anyone got any of batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but would like to know they work before buying them!
Rob
I mentioned in my previous post, I would re-post once I had received new blood tests contrasting my change from Armour to ERFA. I have those tests now and the values are virtually identical. If anything the values show slightly higher activity for the equivalent dosage of the ERFA brand. This finding corresponds to my subjective feeling that the two brands are more-or-less equivalent. Subjectively, the only difference I thought I observed was that the ERFA brand had a flatter effect across the day while the Armour had a greater initial effect in the morning and less effect in the evening. As I said, that is pure speculation based on a sample of one (me). People should be careful about drawing conclusions based solely on their personal subjective experiences. They are important and determinative, of course, but too many things might have entered the causal chain unless they conduct what is called multiple baseline tests with reversals. Based on the comments, no one here has done that.
Angie
Au contraire, Rob. Many of us here that have problems with newer batches of ERFA have done that. I myself have gone back and forth between new and old several times AND between new ERFA and Nature-throid several times. This is not just about equivalent T3 and T4 measurements; but possibly due to contamination or other “active” (e.g., T1, T2 and calcitonin) differences as well.
Cathy Poland
Hi Janie, So you are back on Erfa? What is your expiry date? And do you find they work ok for you now?
Janie Bowthorpe
Cathy, I never went off. I had gobs of the old Erfa.
Susan
I just started taking the tablets today and I am so scared, should I be worrying? I swallow all three together….
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Susan. There are different doses, such as 15 mg, 30 mg, 60 mg….etc. So we don’t know what you mean. But do know that we usually break our dose up to twice a day. For example, I take 2 grains Erfa in the morning and 1 1/2 grains in the early afternoon.
Lola
Susan.. Many of us take a portion of our total daily thyroid dosage in the am and then again in the mid-afternoon.
Suze
I discovered that if I take 30 when I get up and 30 five hours later, just as I am falling into a hypo stupor, it revives me completely and I feel euthyroid the rest of the day. I know this is old news for all of you, to divide the doses for a steadier supply of T3, but I had written it off as ineffective when I tried it before. I tried it again in desperation. I think it is working because these pills are stronger than they were in 2012 and 2013 when I remained hypo even on 120, and adding another 15 or 30 later in the day did nothing. Anyway, so far so good. Maybe even the worst thyroid preparations work better in several small doses so we don’t get too much of the strong stuff at a time.
Janie Bowthorpe
Definitely Suze, about multi-dosing. We’ve seen better results with it, too, especially twice a day. 🙂 More times isn’t usually needed unless one is still underdosed, as you still are.
Suze
I was actually thinking that my prescription is from two different batches since the pills TASTE DIFFERENT randomly. One pill will taste disgusting and rancid, like a horrible pork taste; the next pill might have almost no pork taste but an increase in the sugar sweetness and a difference in the way it breaks up when I chew it. I get fed up with the inconsistency and yet I still trust that it will average out. Am I trusting the wrong company? And I realize that maybe it is the cortisol/ferritin/other physical condition I might have. My doctors have refused to give me these tests again and I have got to go to a naturopath or someone to get the tests. So: what about the difference in the pills’ tastes, along with a difference day to day in the effects of the same exact dose? Me, or the pills? I am going to see if I can get it compounded but is that even a guarantee?
Angie
It’s been a while since I posted or responded to the continuing thread regarding ERFA. I did reasonably well on a 2017 batch (LFo3508A) and then ordered a new supply from Canada Drug (Lot #14G0111) and here we go again. This batch expires in July 2017. Interesting that this lot# begins with numbers.
Cathy Poland
Suze, another thing, maybe you should ask your pharmacy if your prescription was made up from two bottles, maybe find out what the batch no’s and expiry dates were on the original bottle (s).
Cathy Poland
Hi friends, I’m getting used to my latest batch of 125mg Erfa, expiry April 2017 starting with LF forget the rest. I may have had reaction when I started them recently because I had been taking over the counter, much weaker thyroid. Anyway, feeling ok with the above pills now.
Suze
Hi, I have a comment and a question. I’ve been on the new Erfa for a few weeks and did all right on 60 though I was mildly hypo. I increased it to 90 after a couple weeks because I felt it was time. I felt so great yesterday – virtually euthyroid for the first time in ages, then today I feel the dose made me hyper. The same dose of 90. I so hate these erratic effects. I mean do the pills vary in strength even in the same batch? I have not had a chance to get blood tests since August. But I know I was hypo for at least 2 months when I had to lower the dose because of the bad batch, as I was forgetful, cold, gained weight, sleepy, and the whole list of hypo things. Yesterday I didn’t forget a single thing. My mind worked perfectly, I had energy and I felt well. I did have insomnia and woke after only 5 hours as if I didn’t need the 7 to 8 hours I’ve needed lately. Why did the euthyroid turn to hyper so fast? I woke with a head and neck ache. It got better after a bath. I’m now feeling hyper, racing, restless, the familiar feeling of too much T3! Just when I thought I was doing better, and felt my stable health coming back. Can someone explain this? In the past my drs. have said alternate the doses; split the doses, etc. I’ve tried all these. I want CONSISTENCY! Does anyone have that? I do not want to go back to the synthetic. I made up my mind to trust the desiccated but there’s got to be something I’m not understanding about the effects. Is it just that I need to live thru the ups and downs again and the body will adjust? I also have pins and needles in both hands and feet, mostly when I lie down to sleep. It’s not as much in the daytime. I’ve had this for weeks. Does anyone else have this when the dose is wrong? And by the way I took as much as 150 last year without feeling hyper so what on earth is up with this?
Janie Bowthorpe
Suze, your reaction to 90 mg is probably more about a problem with adrenals and/or low iron levels–either or both which you have acquired since last year. You don’t have to go back to synthetic. You will probably need to go back to 60 mg. and do saliva cortisol testing and all four iron labs…and treat what you find before you’ll be able to raise and do well with Erfa. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Cathy Poland
Dear Kat, It’s probably similar to mine which was LF something April Expiry. Mine is 125mg.
I got a response from Erfa to a letter I sent to the director. There is a new medical director there now but same response as from the last director, Dr Knafo. Unfortunate, but understandable as they couldn’t admit to anything changing. Here it is:
Thank you for your email describing your experience with ERFA THYROID, we are honoured that you and your husband have held us in such regard in the past. We would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention and assure you that we have recorded them in our safety surveillance database as we are committed to providing safe and effective products.
Concerning your question regarding changes in formulation of the product, we have not changed the product, manufacturing methods, or our suppliers. The ingredients are listed on our product monograph that can be found at http://www.eci2012.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Thyroid_monographie_ANGLAIS.pdf but there has been no changes made to them. The pills look shinier due to newer compressing machines (to form the tablet), but this should have no impact on effectiveness.
All complaints that you mentioned on STTM has lead us to test multiple samples of all lots involved and despite what information is available online there does not seem to be any correlation between a specific lot and a patient’s response. I understand that this is frustrating for patients but I assure you that we have not decreased our standards of quality, our ingredients, nor our manufacturing process. I sincerely hope that your health improves soon.
If you are still experiencing symptoms I invite you to consult your physician, who is more familiar with your medical history and your condition and is able to prescribe a TSH test that might help determine if your hypothyroidism is well controlled.
Kind regards,
Sebastien Chartrand
Kat
Anyone tried LFO3834A Exp: May 2017 (60mg)? Any good?
Lola
Kat… Someone back in Dec., I think it was, commented that they were doing great on batch
LF 03833A – 60 mg – exp 5.2017. So scroll back up in the comments. 🙂
Cathy Poland
Sorry for all the messages. I just want to add I’ve been taking 125mg Erfa for many years, once a day, but, as I found this last batch a lot stronger (april 2017) I am having to divide the 125mg in half now morning and afternoon, instead of taking the whole one a.m. It is great to have the energy back and feel clearer.
Cathy Poland
Ok so this takes some digesting, good to know that we only pay attention to what’s on the bottle, never though about the fact that it’s expiring on a different date on the monthly prescription.
Alissa
I too live in Canada (Vancouver area) and had a bad reaction to the new ERFA – went hyper with my TSH plummeting to barely detectible and the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, unexplained weight gain) came back. Oddly, this is very similar to the reaction I have to synthroid which I cannot tolerate at all. I had been taking 140mg and maintaining a suppressed TSH of .2-.5 for years and had to cut back to 125 before I found out what had happened and that it had changed thanks to this site.
Right now, if you are in Canada and not close enough to the border to go fill a script yourself (you can take 3 months worth no problem and honestly I would not hesitate to go for a whole years worth and take my chances at the border- it’s thyroid hormone, not oxycontin for crying out loud), I think the best option is to find some of the good old ERFA – it’s still out there. I just found an untapped bottle of 500 of the old 125s so I’m pretty well set until at least March 2016 when they expire and I will be trying to stockpile some more and will take them past the expiry date if I can find more. Luckily, my endo is cool and understands the situation so he will write whatever prescriptions I need to stock up or head across the border. I would bet you can still find 125s & 60s out there if you go looking. I have no hope for the 30s/1 grains though – they seem to be long gone.
The new stuff’s lot numbers mostly start with LF… and the old stuff begins with numbers – usually 12 from my experience. Get in the car and head out to the burbs, bedroom communities, and the weird, small pharmacies that close early – that’s where I’ve has the best luck. Don’t go just by the expiry date – it’s the lot number that matters and the bottles are different too (see the perfect photos on this site!). The last bottle I found of the good old stuff has the same expiry date as the bad new batches so it must be some of the last out of the old factory. Ideally, go to the pharmacies, explain the situation and ask to look at the bottle & actual pills to be sure. If you strike out in your area, get on the phone – I’m sure there is plenty sitting on shelves up north and in the middle of nowhere since not very many people take the NDT – go get it and don’t let it just expire untaken! The place I found the last batch was awesome and actually called around to their other stores and found more of the old ones for me and have them stashed with my name on them so I can just keep buying 100 at time so my extended health benes will pay for them.
I don’t know what I’m going to do when my stash of the old stuff runs out, but it is a relief to have bought some time and, hopefully, the kinks will get worked out at the new factory in Spain in the meantime – sounds like they already are which is great news. I did have some email with ERFA too and just got the company line of ‘nothing has changed.’ Be careful with the new stuff – it seemed stronger to me in a weird and not so good way.
I do feel like I need a little more so think I’m going to start importing and adding a nip/half grain of the Armour to get back to my 140mg. Is Armour the way to go – that’s what my endo wrote the script for and what he is familiar with (he has a few patients that still swear by it and always liked it better than the ERFA), but should I try another brand these days?
Thanks for the super helpful site and good luck everyone!!
Cathy Poland
Alissa, thanks for your info that March 2016 is still the old type but the last ‘good’ batch I used up was 125mg, expiring Aug, ’15, (12021 batch) and then the November 2015 was bad. But you’re saying that the march ’16 was still the good old ones. Does anyone have any idea how this is possible?
My pharmacy didn’t have any more of the good ones from Aug ’15. Don’t know what to do but am thinking of continuing the too strong 4/17 batch and just keep cutting them in half and taking once or twice daily.
Alissa
Yes – I no longer have the lot number handy (it is still at the pharmacy and I can check for you if you want – it definitely started with numbers not LF…), but I found some of the old 125s about 6 weeks ago that are non-speckled, not shiny and they actually work! When I first started taking them after months on the new stuff it was like the first time – all warm and tingly – could feel it soaking in. The ones I have expire March 2016 – remember, if you are just looking at a prescription bottle labeled by the pharmacy, the expiry date will usually be no longer than a year from when you filled it rather than the date on the big bottle of 500 the pharmacy has. Try another pharmacy – I went to well over 10 before I found the stash at one that closes at 6pm so no one goes there. Before I showed up, they never had a customer buy them there before, but both the 30s & 60s they had were of the newer vintage which is not too surprising since both (mostly the 30s so people were forced to split the 60s) were in short supply right before the change over. I did find some old 60s elsewhere though so they are around too. At least some of the old ones are still out there – probably with with 2015 & 2016 expiry dates – keep looking and it will at least buy some time until you can figure something else out. Think small towns where the only Dr. insists on synthetics, bad locations, stupid hours, etc. I basically pop into every pharmacy I see these days and see what they have, especially when I’m out of town in more remote areas.
Dianne
It’s actually very confusing because some of the bad batches actually start with numbers – for eg. some of us have found that 125 mg tabs, batch 13C06 expiry March 2016 is a bad batch. So all bad batches don’t start with letters, necessarily. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the batch numbers, or the sequences of the batches.
Alissa
It is confusing for sure and it’s probably not worth even trying to figure it out. I have in my possession old and new 125s that both have an expiry date of March 2016 and the new ones are what made me go hyper and hypo at the same time. I have not seen any of the new ones (larger, flatter, shiny, speckled) that start with numbers, but that definitely does not mean they are not out there. I never had a ‘bad batch’ of the old smaller, matte ones, but that also does not mean that they don’t exist either.
Scoring the old ones is not much of a solution, but it sure helped me out for the moment (or until March 2016) so I wanted to let people who are also having a hard time that they are still around with a little looking if you are willing to expend the time and effort to go to a bunch of pharmacies. I guess going in person and actually looking at the pills is the only way to be sure.
shirley
I’m from the east coast of canada. I’m getting a compounded formula from Fords pharmacy in New Brunswick (thyroid porcine(acidoph). At my request, they replaced the filler with acidophilus. I’ve been taking this formula for 3-4 months and I think I finally got the amount correct. First time in many many years that my body feels “normal”. The compound is expensive ( 2x as much as the ERFA) but, given how I feel now (normal), for me, it is worth the extra cost. I wonder if the old filler in the ERFA are a major issue. I’ll let you know how things progress over the next 6 months, if folks are interested.
Dianne
Hi Shirley, I’m interested in hearing how things progress for you on the compounded thyroid hormone. I’ve also considered using acidophilus as a filler if I go ahead and start compounded thyroid, and it sounds promising. Is it in powder-form in a capsule, and are the only two ingredients desiccated thyroid hormone and acidophilus? How many milligrams per dose, if you don’t mind me asking?Thanks.
shirley
Hi Dianne. My compounded thyroid comes in capsule form. Each of my capsules is 112mg (exactly what I require). If i need more they just up each capsule. The only ingredients are the desiccated thyroid hormone and the acidophilus. I’ll let you know how things go over the next 6 months. So far so good. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Dianne
Hi Shirley, thank you for answering my questions about your compounded thyroid hormone. If I have any more questions, I’ll let you know. I’d appreciate if you update us as time goes on. Thanks again. 🙂
Alissa
Thanks for this info Shirley. I may try going the compounding route when my stash of the old ERFA runs out. I have started adding 15mg of Armour to my 125 of ERFA and so far it seems to be a pretty good combo. Adding 15mg of the new ERFA did not go as well – made me jittery. However, importing my full dose of 140 mg of the Armour (and I may need more since by most accounts it’s weaker than the ERFA) from the States would be more than 4 times as expensive and without my extended heath plan’s 80% prescription coverage, it will cost more than 10 times what I pay for the ERFA. I really like the idea of probiotics as the filler too – that’s an awesome idea!
Juls
Hi, Shirley and Alissa 🙂 So? I am Just curious after…. Almost 5 Years ( a lot) are you still taking ndt? It’s interesting to see how things go after a bit….. I am Just asking cause you didn’t update anything even though you said you would, so i don’t understand if it’s good….
Cathy Poland
Wow, both my daughter and I took our 125mg Erfa, April 2017 expiry date, found it quite strong, we cleaned the whole house! It’s a bit too strong for us so we’ll get a smaller dose.
Cathy Poland
My daughter, who took the same amount, 125mg of Erfa last night and this morning, is getting the ‘singing’ feeling, feeling energetic. She may cut her dose in 2 and take half morning and half afternoon. Anyone else experiencing this?
Cathy Poland
I’ve just got some new Erfa, exp. April 2017, they have a slightly shiny exterior like the new ones but dissolve and taste like the old, good ones. Will wait a few days to see how they work. Anyone else tried the April ’17 ones, if so, how do you find them?
Kate
Hi everyone,
I was on synthroid for 8 years and never felt good. I am not on natural vitamins but am curious about NDT….I see alot of mixed reviews and am on the fence of what to do. My doc isn’t supportive of much, I had to make her test my t3 after explaining about all the research I had done. How much is it for erfa’s thyroid??? Anyone try anything else that worked well???
Cathy Poland
Dear friends, this last post about Erfa being good again is fantastic news. I’d been fine on my old batch of Erfa Batch 12H021, expiring on 08/ 2015 (pharmacist had pasted ex. 2015/01/04) I had a whole bottle (500).
The new batch I got in November ’14 was one of the ‘changed’ batches; shiny, bad symptoms almost immediately was only 200 pills (no batch no.) expiring 2015/11/17.
What you are saying is, get expiry date, July 2017 then? Is that unanimous?
Cathy Poland
That’s great news, will contact pharmacy and ask for expiration date mid 2017 Erfa and try them out.
Suze
I can report that the July 2017 batch of Erfa is good. I’ve been on it for only 4 days as the Synthroid/Cytomel combo gave me side effects and I gave it up. I got the new Erfa and it looks just like the older batches – not shiny. So whatever they were doing wrong, they stopped. I started in with just one grain to be conservative and have no side effects, no hypo or hyper attacks at all, yet adequate energy. I will stay on one grain as long as it works this well; if it becomes too low I will raise it gradually as I did before. This site has kept me going through all the upheavals. I hope I never look at the synthetics as a valid alternative again. I do think all the complaints that people poured into the manufacturers made a difference. If no one had said a word we’d probably still be getting the shiny pills that did not work right.
Sandra
I will be getting lab results this coming Monday and will be very interested to see what they say. I have started a new batch of Erfa just after those labs (was on an old batch) and the new one is LF03833A expiry 05/1017.
I know that you say that there could be other things going on with us Janie and that could be a possibility but it is very interesting how one can be on the same lifestyle for years with no changes such as diet, same amount of hydrocortisone with attempts here and there to lower when feeling optimal, same exercise etc. and then you go downhill.
I remember that when I was balanced on the old good Erfa, I could handle all my job throws my way but this past year has been just awful. It wouldn’t even matter if I stress dosed my cortef either. One thing for sure that has happened in the last year and for the life of me cannot figure out is I must have inflammation, have achy forearms that are weak when lifting things and have on and off, achy lungs, a very weird symptom that when walking slightly up hill, on some days ache badly. I have been for an echo cardiogram, stress test, neck xray and lab work so will be very interested to see what is up.
I am so very happy to be off for Christmas break to rest up and pray for a better 2015.
and wishing the same to you all here!
Shinta
Dear Janie, first i want to thank you immensely for your website… I still would have known so little about it if it weren’t for your information. I cried a lot when going through your website, so many common symptoms i had suffered for years only because my endo’s incapability to make me better.
Since 15 years now i am a hyperthyroid going to hypothyroid due to radioactive iodine therapy after i delivered our first child, 7 months after. I was for 15 years on the Belgian product L-Thyroxine 75mg daily,T4 only medication. On December 1st this month I got a severe depression and uncontrollable moodswings and told myself i want to heal as since my last pregnancy in 2011 my symptoms were getting worse, just as described in your website, i realized afterwards. I found an orthomoleculaire physician here in Belgium, Europe, Dr Proesmans, and i am lucky my general physician Dr Foulon has an open mind and immediately prescribed me the French product Euthyral (combined synthetic T4 0,1mg & T3 0,02mg). I am taking this since only 25 days now along with a number of supplements, keeping away from gluten and sugar, and keeping a more Japanese foodintake and there is a huge difference already: my severe cold intolerance disappeared, my Achilles inflammation stopped, my headskin stopped feeling painful, my eyes started tearing again, my dry skin has improved (not completely gone yet), my joints stopped being painful, my moodswings getting slightly better, allergies has been better, just to name a few. Must admit that my anxiousness towards stress situations still is high and i am hoping to improve this too as none of our four children and husband deserve a mother and a wife being often upset…
Now i am willing to try the NDT’s, more specifically the Canadian Erfa Thyroid. As i read here that the symptoms will disappear in time with synthetic combined thyroid T4 and T3, but they will definately improve much more when on Natural DT. So i am convinced.
My general physician already wrote me the medical prescription and my pharmacist is willing to get it for me. Of course now that i read about the bad batches of Erfa i am doubting to buy these. The ortho physician is willing to get me the Armour, but that brand is also under scrutiny. Any other brand you might recommend me then?
By the way.. i left my endocrinologist after he claimed three weeks ago that most of my symptoms should be addressed by other physicians and are not caused by my lazy thyroid and thus his unwillingness to write me the combined T4 & T3… just as you described here,Janie.
Shinta (47 years)
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Shinta. Not sure what you mean that Armour is under scrutiny? It’s not anymore. I will say that the 2017 expiration dates of Erfa have been reported as better lately. Or you can go with Armour if you can get it. 🙂
Lola
Hi, Shinta… Do research/google estrogen dominance or unapposed estrogen. Here in the states, we can order a natural progesterone cream
that is so helpful for insomnia, moodiness, flooding etc. There is also a book you can read ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause’ by
Dr. John Lee. The book isn’t just for menopausal women but is excellent for women of all ages. We are exposed to so many estrogen-like
compounds in our diet and environment, even women in their thirties can be experiencing estrogen dominance. Natural progesterone can be
helpful in balancing all our hormones. ProGest is one good brand name. You just start counting from the first day of your period… 10 days.
On the 10/11 th day, you start applying just a dab of natural progesterone cream for ten days. Apply to fatty areas (most of us have plenty of
those..lol) such as underarms, sides of breasts, inner thighs, alternating sites in order to avoid saturation.
As for thyroid supplements, WP by RLC Labs and NP by Acella are good. Naturethroid is okay but very chalky. Some say Armour has improved
over the last three- four years and you may be able to take it just fine, especially in the smaller pill size, (60 mg/1 grain and smaller).
Suze
OK – I will get those tests again. I’ll study your info. Thanks!
Suze
I am using 50 Synthroid and 6 Cytomel and I felt horrible yesterday, like a combination of hyper and hypo – severe brain fog mostly. It was frightening. I can’t stay on it. I am not willing to “give it 6 weeks” or whatever. If I am better off using a bad batch of Erfa I will do that. How fast can I increase it to feel normal in the brain again? ?And what is it in this mix that causes it – the T3 or the T4? Like I felt reasonable all day and got the horrible head thing at night, how can I explain it, like a brain lag, where I am not thinking precisely. When I was on the bad batch of Erfa I’d be OK some days, and then have a hyper attack for a few hours, followed by severe hypo at night. BUT I could think. I feel the hypo thing in the eyes first. On one day I felt euthyroid. Does anyone know how to avoid the hypo-hyper attacks and swings on either Erfa or synthetic. I have had these for years so it’s not just the bad batch. It was just more severe with the last Erfa but this seems actually WORSE. I was reading my old notes as far back as 1992 to 2001 and I had horrible attacks of hypo and hyper with plain Synthroid or Eltroxin, and when I was on T3 alone compounded, my tsh went up to 40 even though I could function. Two blood tests I had in 1997, one was a perfect tsh of 0.7 and three months later on the same dose of 100 T4 it shot up to tsh 10. I do not understand how a little hormone pill can cause such havoc, no matter how much I read about the way it works. I would rather be on the edge of hyper but functional all day than severely hypo. Recently I was pretty good mixing 50 Synthroid with 60 Erfa – some days in November. But every dose and type sometimes give me an attack. Bottom line is right now I feel I am hypothyroid, but had severe weird hypo/hyper brain fog last night and do not know what to take today to avoid that! Please give me some hints. Sometimes I take nothing and whatever was wrong seems to clear out of my system. I am wondering if it’s me – something in the conversion, or something in the pituitary, or the actual tsh acting up – whatever it is – it’s not like the little pills are drugs. They are supposed to be bioidentical hormones, therefore why the severe reactions, sometimes delayed? If this rant sounds irrational, that is my brain fog and frustration! My endo is out of town and his secretary not calling me back and I am overdue to see him. I have to solve this on my own. My ferritin and cortisol were normal a few months ago. Is it always that? Can they go wrong just from stress? Or is it diet – I have experimented every which way and was on a low carb paleo diet for 2 years, recently experimented with starches to see if it would calm me. It does not work. I do better on the low carb, high protein. Anything else I should try?
Janie Bowthorpe
Suze, everything you are describing has to do with either iron and/or cortisol issues. Remember–lab results have nothing to do with falling in the normal range. They had to do with where they fall. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Nick Whetstone
I will also give a cautious thumbs up to EFRA again as I am feeling better than I was through the middle part of the year.
Anne
Nick glad you’re feeling better than you were, can you let me know the strength, batch number and expiry date of the ones you think are ok, also did they come via Pharmarama do you know? I have a private prescription but haven’t dared buy any more yet as don’t want to waste even more money. Thanks!
Nick Whetstone
Hi Anne, Apologies for the delay in answering your question – I have been catching up on jobs after last year’s almost continuous ill-health.
My latest batch is CFO 3882A (05/17). The last 2 could be a 7 – it’s hard to tell from the scribble. I am nearly at the end of that one and have my repeat prescription arriving tomorrow.
Anne
Thanks for telling me this Nick and I’m glad you’re feeling so much better. I have a private prescription and Pharmarama currently have 1 grains of batch LF04140A expiry July 2017, and I’m wondering whether to buy it at £62.50 for 100 days supply (2.5 grains a day), or whether to try something else completely. I don’t want to waste any more money, so if your next lot happens to be the batch I’ve been offered and they’re ok please could you let me know? Thanks!
Dianne
I read somewhere above that someone said they have a 2017 batch that has no spots and feel fine on them. I think this might be key, so I’m going to ask around at different pharmacies to let me look at their 2017 batches to see if I can find some spotless ones. Can hardly wait. Sigh. (They’ll say, ‘oh here she comes again’.) This gives ‘Stop the thyroid madness’ a whole new meaning.
Sandra
So I have been wondering for quite sometime, why is it that Erfa is the only dessicated thyroid available to us here in Canada? Why can’t we purchase US DT? Is there a way to start something to see if this can change such as contacting the manufacturers of US DT to ask why they won’t sell to Canada when there are so many US drugs sold in Canada?
Dianne
I wish we could buy ndt from the US, too. I don’t understand how Canada can be so strict about what prescription drugs we bring in; but have no problem selling our prescription drugs to other countries. Makes no sense to me.
RT
As I mentioned and I believe others have as well, it appears that subsequent batches of ERFA are fine. I have been taking it for the past few months with essentially the same subjective results as Armour. I’ll receive my blood test in a few more days and will post a follow up if warranted.
Looking over the many posts, I see a few people hoping that the cause of their individual changes can be traced to a medication change. In some cases this may be true but a lot of this may be dosage related, caused by failing to use objective tests to adjust dosage.
We should exercise some caution in blaming a product like ERFA. Keep in mind that if thoughtless blogs are successful in taking ERFA natural thyroid off the market, the price of Armour will triple and half of you will not be able to purchase it. Imagine the complaining we will see then! Even the federal (US) formulary will not recognize any natural thyroid products.
Pattycakes
I recently got into trouble with my uptake of WP Thyroid. Quite suddenly my heart started racing & it felt like my heart was turning over in my chest. My resting heart rate was 140’s. No temperature, but very scary.
I had Holter monitor, stress-test, and echocardiogram & blood tests including RT3. All irregularities were attributed to too much thyroid hormone, The cardiologist declared no heart disease, only uptake of too much thyroid hormone that was causing my Afib/arrhythmia & racing heartbeat that lasted over 10 days.
Over the course of the last few months, with the supervision of my GP doctor I have been trying to get my temps up, without success, going up 15 mg each time after blood tests including all 4 irons.
My last dosages of Erfa were 225mg (felt hypo). When I Afibbed the WP dose was 210 mg. Now for 4 weeks I have been taking NO THYROID MEDS AT ALL. I do not feel hypo or hyper at this point, but had blood drawn yesterday see where my levels are. My temp has gone down a bit. I am sleeping better, however I don’t want to get too far into the hypo range. In more than 40 years, I have never stopped taking thyroid meds.
The cardiologist gave me a long lecture on the fact that dessicated thyroid is not regulated by the FDA & there are no strict guidelines for the manufacture of it. This means that wide variances are allowed in both the active ingredients and the fillers, and neither of these are required to be listed on the labels. (This is why there will probably be no recalls) Now I don’t put a lot of faith in some of the drugs that the FDA does allow, so up until now, I have largely ignored this issue. But in terms of sheer dosing, it could account for such wide variations.
My personal opinion is that uptake is highly variable too. Inadvertently, I took supplement that was high in IRON, not realizing that if I had pooling of T3, the iron would facilitate its release & cause “hyperness”. My RT3 test was normal by the time I had it, but probably the T3 had already released.
I realize that cortisol is at play here too. A few days before this Afib episode, I had an extremely emotional experience & was not entirely recovered from it.
If anyone has suggestions on how to start taking a thyroid hormone again I would welcome your thoughts. I have Hashimoto, so perhaps I would be better off with T4 or a combo? Is there any chance that my thyroid gland still works & will not need thyroid supplement at all after all these years?
Janie Bowthorpe
Oops. I just reread your post and see that it was WP Thyroid that did this to you, not the Erfa initially. So let me repeat the first part: That is FALSE that desiccated thyroid has “no strict guidelines” and there are “wide variances”. To the contrary, all the prescription NDT’s go by the strict guidelines of the US Pharmacopeia. Doctors are simply CLUELESS about NDT and the standards it does have.
As far as the Erfa you are now using, do know that there have been some pretty bad batches with Erfa this year after they changed their manufacturer. For me personally, I would NOT use Erfa batches this year until we know they have changed the problem that they have so far completely denied exists (in spite of too many patients having trouble with certain batches.) But you have to decide for yourself.
You stated that you may have taken too much, but did the Free’s show that? Then you stated you were raising your NDT? A little confused there, but I’m thinking you mean you are raising the new brand of Erfa….
Hope you figure it all out. For me personally, I would dig deep, looking at all labwork and all possibilities that could have caused this to happen! Good luck!! 🙂
Trisha
Apologies RE: my above post… I looked & looked on but wasn’t able to see the more recent posts (via my iPhone). Then I made my post & viola – there were the recents ones! DO keep posting everyone on the latest. I still would like to go back to ERFA if it regains it’s efficacy!
Thank you.
Trisha
Hi,
The last post was August 4th. It is NOW December 10th! WHAT please is the latest on ERFA ?? Has everyone jumped ship and/or drowning in a sea of
no return?
Any comments – ANYONE?
Have ERFA sales plummeted? What’s going on? HOPE to hear some feedback.
Sincere thanks!
Dianne
“Has everyone jumped ship and/or drowning in a sea of
no return?”
Both. 🙁 I also wonder if sales have plummeted, though. Doesn’t seem so, from what people say on the internet. Locally, none of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to are aware of anything amiss with ERFA Thyroid. This has been one of the most frustrating situations I’ve ever been in. I try not to dwell on it because it’s so stressful and feels so hopeless.
Elizabeth
I am new to this site as I’ve been brainwashed by my doctor for way too many years, that I only need Synthroid after my Iodine treatment over 20 years ago. For most of this time I was stable but now for the last few years my TSH/T3/T4 are up and down so we raise/lower the dosage of Synthroid. I have may other symptoms that my doc wants to treat separately (not connected to my thyroid according to the doc), mainly sleeping issues (waking up 20, 25 X a night), high cholesterol to name a few. She is not willing to even try desiccated thyroid. Has anyone can recommend a doctor in Ottawa area of someone who is prescribing it (I would get it at compounding pharmacy here). Any help would be greatly appreciated. I wish I came across ‘Stop the Thyroid madness earlier as it seems that there is a hope 🙂
Ruth
Hello Elizabeth 🙂 I saw on other forums that ERFA has a list of “open minded” doctors in Canada. If you send them an email or call them they will maybe help you.
Elizabeth
Thank you Ruth, greatly appreciated!
Suze
Because these posts are in blogs from May and June most people are not reading them anymore. I can’t find an active forum where people are actually posting about Erfa, but this is the place where the bad batches of Erfa came to light. I need to hear more feedback about Erfa. Is there an active forum? These pills are having such a toxic effect on me.
Janie Bowthorpe
Suze, this is active. But a lot of folks simply moved away from using Erfa to something else. And every person who has commented on here gets a notification of your post.
Sandra
That is funny, I don’t get notifications but it does say I have subscribed to this post.
Jen
Yeah, if you join the groups on Facebook, many people just got scared of trying it again. I read a few posts saying the 2017 batches were good and 2015-2016 were problems. I went from suppressed/optimized to hypo and back to normal on the 2017 batch.
Anne
Suze I’ve been following this problem with ERFA on several forums but this is now the only one I know of with people still commenting on having bad batches, the others have all gone quiet. I’m also on several of the STTM Facebook groups and a lot of people are saying they are doing fine on the latest batches, those people are mainly in the Eastern part of Canada, or else they’ve switched to something else. I switched to Thyroid-S but don’t feel quite right on it so am still trying to get a good batch of new ERFA, hence I keep coming here. As far as I’ve seen, the batches which people think are ok are: LF03833A/expiry 05/2017, 60 mg (Marjaana and Pete here), LF03140B expiry 10/2016, 60 mg, BN136051 expiry 07/2016, 60mgs, LF03140B expiry 10/2016 60mgs.
Sandra
Hi Anne,
I’m curious how Thyroid-S made you feel. I have been on another batch of Erfa 5 1/2 grains for about a week and a half now and my hands are cold, depression has set in. When I tried Thyroid-S it felt like it was too strong for me and I was on 5 grains. Perhaps there is some truth to the weakness of Erfa.
I also don’t have the pounding heart I had on Thyroid-S. I did have a lot more energy though, nice long walks with the dog on Thyroid-S. I know Janie, you said that if neither are working then it could be something else so I had bloodwork done yesterday and will see what it says. My gut is telling me I may have needed to lower Thyroid-S (I ran out of it) and now that I only have Erfa, raise it.
Janie Bowthorpe
Yes, if you had a pounding heart on Thyroid-S, there’s a good chance you have a cortisol or iron problem….or you were simply on too much! By the way, remember that you canNOT go by blood when it comes to cortisol. It has to be saliva. And you need four iron labs.
Sandra
Thanks Janie, unfortunately I cannot go off my Cortef to get another saliva done, would be just too hard on me and perhaps dangerous.
Interesting reveal in my appointment yesterday,they found a heart murmur and am now going for an echocardiogram coming Monday. What fun!
I was really close to redordering Thyroid-S yesterday as I was feeling so very down and out but would love to hear if those who switched did have to take a lower dose and if so how much lower. I know everyone is different, will see what my labs reveal first.
I am truly grateful to have this forum, without it, would be lost.
:).
Sandra
Janie Bowthorpe
Ah, Sandra, I didn’t catch you were already on Cortef. Then the question for that is: did you do your Daily Average Temps to find the right physiologic amount? i.e. most women find that in the 25 – 32.5 range? That’s VERY important. So is stress dosing in the face of high stress.
Sandra
Hi Janie,
There is no reply available on your recent comment for me you posted today, so am putting my reply here. Yes, you had previously suggested that, but due to my work each day, am not able to chart temps properly, unable to sit for the required 15 minutes prior as I work in retail and if a customer needs me, I’m up and about. I wish I could though, have tried to lower my HC but unable to.
Is there any other way to gauge? I assume not.
Janie Bowthorpe
No, there’s no other way that we know of. Hopefully you can figure out a way to do this.
Anne
Hi Sandra, when I first started Thyroid-S I was rather unhappy to be taking it as I felt it wasn’t as ‘safe’ as the US and Canadian NDTs, and I felt a bit on edge for a few weeks, but eventually decided it was mainly caused by my worrying about it. Then gradually my muscles started aching a bit more than usual (I have problems in my low back and shoulders due to an accident some years ago, but when they flare up badly I’m inclined to think that a hypo symptom), now the fingers of my left hand have started feeling painful and stiff when I wake up in the morning, that is an old symptom which began some years ago when I was taking synthetic T4 only, my doctor at the time added in T3 and the pain and stiffness disappeared. Generally I don’t have quite as much energy, and don’t feel quite as stable as I did on ERFA, so I assumed I was going hypo and had a blood test taken to see what was going on. It turned out that my FT4 and FT3 were both higher than usual. I used to take 2.75 grains of Armour and then the same dose of Nature-throid when Armour reformulated. When I first stared ERFA I also took 2.75 grains but then had a batch which seemed stronger so went down to 2.5 grains. In all those years my blood test results have been roughly the same. Since June I have been taking 2.5 grains of Thyroid-S and so can only think that it’s stronger than the others but perhaps the T3 isn’t as bio-available to me, if that makes sense. I haven’t had a pounding heart, or any of the digestive type problems I had on the bad batch of ERFA I got at the end of last year though.
Sandra
Hi Anne,
Thanks so much for explaining your situation. It all can be so dang confusing and overwhelming. That is an interesting point about the T3 and Thyroid-S. So when your labs showed high Free T3 and T4 did you have to lower or did you keep your dose the same? I am still subpar on my current Erfa but will await my labs and unfortunately have to wait well into the New Year for them.
Anne
Sandra I’m replying here as I can’t reply to your last post to me. You asked if I lowered my dose of Thryoid-S when the blood tests showed higher than usual FT3, but no I didn’t I kept to the same dose, mainly because I don’t feel as good on it as I did on ERFA or NatureThroid or the old Armour, although I’m getting used to it more, or perhaps I’m getting used to being tired! I’m due to see the endo next week and will be interested if the latest test results taken two weeks ago are similar!
Jen
I didn’t have a problem with the batch of ERFA that expired in 2017 and I don’t have a thyroid. I went fro hypo to back to normal/suppressed pretty quick. I only switched to Nature-Thyroid because my insurance will cover it and it’s cheaper..which is also working for me. I rather try WP though due to having less ingredients. I tried ThyroidS a few years ago and got very hypo. I don’t know why so many people are pushing it when you look at the list of terrible ingredients.. it’s full of fillers and crap that isn’t needed.
Sarah
Hi Suze,
I thought I’d reply here just to let you know what has happened to mr. After the ERFA debacle I came to the site frequently. Posted about my poor results with it because of the changes and have since then tried WP THYROID, NATURETHROID AND ARMOUR…….none have which have suited he. I was virtually 100% better on the original ERFA. I am now 4 weeks in to levothyroxine again and just came here to see if this thus debate is still going on. I guess many if us have sort other meds by now.
My progress is slow but I am determined to make levo work……..not much choice left. T3 only will be my final resort.
I feel very angry about ERFA, mostly because we have not been told truthfully what happened to it. Honesty I could graciously accept…….but I’m too old to have the wool pulled over my eyes!
I wish you the best of luck and if course health. X
Janie Bowthorpe
Sarah, all NDT’s work. Yes people have their favorites, but all are reported as working. So….if you tried WP Thyroid, Naturethroid and Armour and none suited you, that points to you either not raising high enough, or now having an adrenal or iron issue. Promise.
Axel
I became the last 500 60s pills from erfa in November 2014 and i must take a higher dose, now a take 300mg per day .
I think there are not so potent as the pills some years ago. I take the tyroid since 10 years first amor and later Erfa. My weight is 75 kg.
That is not normaly. What for doses You take with the new Erfa tyroid? Please write it here .
Axel
Suze
I looked at my current pills (30s and 60s) and they are shinier and different looking than some old ones I had left in my pill cutter from 2013. The old ones are matte finish, no shine. I have never thought my recent horrible ups and downs were due to a change in the Erfa but now I have to. I only got relief from the recent hyper attacks when cutting my dose to 60. Last year I did well on 120 and as high as 150. My endocrinologist was stumped and thought I must need estrogen and testosterone but I won’t take those. Raising the Erfa to 90, the last 2 days, it is too high again and I experienced a brain zap, a bout of diarrhea, and an increase in allover tremor (in other words a “hyper attack”). I started the new batch on May 20. This seems to be when my hyper attacks started and I had to lower the dose. What to do? I even went on Synthroid both combined with Erfa and by itself, in desperation, but felt worse on it. What is the best thing to do while they sort out what happened with the Erfa? There is no other natural thyroid brand in Canada. Please reply – should I keep taking 60 since I didn’t feel sick on that dose? I was just concerned that I was becoming hypo. PS there is no batch number on my pill bottles but the expiry dates for both 30 and 60 are 10/16.
Danny
Hi Suze!
Please be careful with your treatment! Your hypothyroidism won’t be the same all your life. It’s normal to change dosage someday if you need it but only after blood tests and analysis. Thyroid pills need at least 6 weeks to reach the maximum of their effect. It’s horrible to say I know but you have to be patient when you change your dosage before changing again. Otherwise you’ll always be up and down (no matter which brand or batch you take). If you feel okay on 60. Stay with it a while and do blood tests in 6 weeks to see what’s going on. I hope you’ll be fine… (I was in the same situation before finding the right dosage for me. I understand how hard it is!)
Catherine
Janie,
Is there any way of finding out if Erfa 125 mg Expiration of 8/2015 Batch # 12H02 is “safe” or potent?
Thank you
Dianne
I would say, just by looking at the expiry date, that it is most likely ‘safe’. I would take it if it had an expiry date of 08/15, for sure – at least I would try it with great confidence.
Cathy Poland
Dear friends, I’d been fine on my old batch of Erfa Batch 12H021, expiring on 08/ 2015 (pharmacist had pasted ex. 2015/01/04) I had a whole bottle (500).
The new batch I got in November ’14 was one of the ‘changed’ batches; shiny, bad symptoms almost immediately was only 200 pills (no batch no.) expiring 2015/11/17.
Cathy Poland
Dear Janie Bowthorpe, I wrote saying that I’ve been fine on Erfa and Pfizer 125 mg for almost 12 years. Got a new batch 3 wks ago, expires nov 17, ’15. I’ve changed last week or so, some tender, slightly itchy areas on ribs, one side, now have come up, bad digestion, low energy, a bit depressed. I’m looking at what I should order from US. I understand that the non prescription one from Nutri meds is not nearly as strong so that seems risky to try to figure out how much I’ll need. Or should I go ahead and order the non script anyway?
Can you recommend any particular one. I know an MD in US who may may give me a script. With a script, can you recommend one over another?
I appreciate your help!
Marjaana
I’m feeling good. I have taking this batch since 20.9. and I’m feeling alive again! Bloodtest on monday 3.11., results
were good! My batch is LF03833A/exp 05/2017, 60 mg. Feeling really positive at the moment, it’s great after shitty 8-9 months!
Sandra
Marjaana, wow that is super and it does give hope to those of us struggling so thanks for sharing. May it continue for you!
Anne
Marjaana thank you so much for telling us this, now I need to find some of that batch!
Pete
My batch is also LF03833A and after two months or so on it I can also confirm that I do feel much better now!
Sandra
thanks Pete for letting us know your improved, would love to find a good batch to rule out that it isn’t something else. Curious what were your symptoms and how long were you unwell before now?
Sandra
It seems like this topic has slowed down in that either people have given up or perhaps are seeing improvement and are getting on with their lives.
For myself however, being in Canada, with no other option other than Erfa, have tried Thyroid-S which is an improvement but still i am not feeling my best. I then tried another batch of a 2017 expiry Erfa but immediately had hypo symptom of being freezing at night while on it along with low grade depression.
I would love to hear from those that have been on a 2017 expiry batch that have had good improvement so that I can understand if this is perhaps something else going on with me but I have to say, this all feels to much like the hypo hell Iived in for 5 years before finding out about dessicated thyroid.
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra…bottom line: if you haven’t felt better on Thyroid-S, it means you didn’t raise high enough, or you’ve got an adrenal or iron problem you haven’t addressed fully yet. This doesn’t take away from what happened to Erfa–it’s pretty clear that something went wrong with it. But it does underscore that there’s more going on with you. Read https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Sandra
Hi Janie,
Thanks for the feedback, I am going to get a full iron panel done as I don’t think it is adrenal, have been on HC full replacement dose for quite sometime now.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, it’s important to have done your Daily Average Temps to know if you are on a full replacement dose…have you??
Sandra
I stopped that as it is impossible to take my temps accurately for a week, I never sit for 15 minutes in one time at my full time job. I wish I could though. I take 40 – 42 mg of cortef and have been for years now spread out for 6 doses and thought that 40 mg is a phsiological replacement dose. I have tried on occasions to lower either at night or the end of the day dose but end up shakey, not dealing with stress etc. Currently even on the above dose and about in the last month am waking up with dark circles under my eyes in spite of proper sleep. I know it can be a number of things and have been working on my health for many years now, no gluten, tried Paleo etc, walk each day that I can for 30 minutes and am now in menopause so I know that doesn’t help things.
I have an appt on the 8th to get a stress test and any blood work I need and need to know all the critical blood work. I’m having inflammation symptoms too along with achy lungs. I am also under a lot of pressure at work and feel very stressed along with on and off depression and am not handling stress well. Trying to keep my head up! It shouldn’t be so hard and all was really well before last January, never ever thought this would be happening again. Thank you for replying to me, it means alot, if only to just type it here what I’m going through.
Dianne
Sandra, I’ve also noticed a slow down in people posting about ERFA. imo, I think people have probably moved on to something else or given up trying to get ERFA’s attention. It’s harder for those of us in Canada to move on, though, since ERFA is *it* for ndt. For me, I find it to be a waste of time to even bother with the people at ERFA anymore, since it’s obvious they don’t seem to really care. As long as they are making money off people that are tolerating it, I don’t feel ERFA is going to do much more than they’ve already done, which is test the ‘concentration’ of the tabs (and not the actual ingredients).
As for me, I’m still on some old stock of 60 mg ERFA that I found, but I don’t have much left. I’m also supplementing that with Nutri-Meds desiccated thyroid. I take one 60 mg tab of old ERFA, and one 130 mg capsule of either bovine or porcine Nutri-Meds. I seem to feel better on the bovine. I’m not sure how strong the Nutri-Meds are, though. The caps say 130 mg, but I have no idea if the strength is equivalent to 130 mg of ERFA Thyroid. I think I’m going to up the Nutri-Meds, though. Eventually, it looks like I’ll be on Nutri-Meds only, so hopefully Nutri-Meds is actually working…
Sandra
Hey Dianne,
I think you are right about that. What would the expense comparison be if you were taking Nutrimeds instead?
Do you have a thyroid?
Dianne
Hi Sandra, It will definitely be more expensive to be on Nutri-Meds since I’ll have to take so many (I’ve been increasing it since I’m feeling more and more hypo). I don’t think this (Nutri-Meds) will be a permanent solution; although I don’t have any other plan right now. Yes, I do have a thyroid.
RT
This is my first run with ERFA. I had been using Armour but accepted the alternate when Armour was out of stock.
I received ERFA 125 mg., Expiration 04/17, Lot LF03728A and have been taking them now for two months.
I was taking 1-grain of Armour (60 mg.) and am now taking 1/2 of a 125 mg. ERFA tablet.
Subjectively, the ERFA formulation doesn’t feel quite as biologically active or potent as the Armour within the first few hours of taking them in the AM (most of you will know what I am referring to) but they seem to have a more steady effect across the 24 hour period. I have not had any tests during this period so I have nothing objective to report. So, different, yes; inferior, can’t tell.
Stephanie
I’m somewhat confused by the frequent references to feeling the effects of thyroid pills right after taking them. I have been on armour and, after the reformulation, compounded thyroid and never feel anything after taking a pill. The medication seems to be working, but I am not sure why I don’t feel it when so many others refer to their body “singing” or something similar after taking a pill. Strange.
Jen
Do you swallow or put it under your tongue?
I’m not a caffeine drinker but I would compare it to a shot of caffeine.. you kinda get a pick-me-up as it kicks in. Not that extreme but close. If I’m late for a dosage, I find myself yawning.
Stephanie
Thanks for the response. I did put it under my tongue when I was on Armour, but I switched to compounded and sublingual doesn’t seem to work well anymore for some reason.
Alenka
I wrote to dr. Knafo, you can read a copy. Janie, thank you for updating us.
Dear dr. Knafo,
I’ve been taking your Thyroid for several years, being on stable dosage (full supplementation) I’ve never expected to become hypothyroid again. Unfortunately I did when starting the new batch.
I spent the last 3 months on looking for the optimal dosage, spent some extra money on doctor’s appointments and tests. I had to increase my dosage from 90 mg to 120 mg. The test results are like they used to be, but I don’t feel as well as before.
I used to take Armour Thyroid and when it was reformulated, I only had to increase my dosage by 7,5 mg. So I really wonder, what is wrong with your tablets? Taking them sublingually should minimise the effect of different additives or the tablets being harder pressed for instance.
I appreciate your concern and testing the new batches due to our complaints, but since I trusted your products it would have taken a very long time to figure out what was wrong with me all of the sudden if Janie Bowthorpe wouldn’t write about it. I’m very disappointed so I’m going back to Armour Thyroid. Such a shame since your Thyroid is much easier available to me.
Sincerely,
Jenn A
Hi,
Did you ever get a reply? I haven’t :/
Jenn
Jenn A
Here we go again 🙁 I bought a 500 ct 125 mg bottle in Oct of 2013. I ran out a few weeks ago and got more from a different place. The first time I used them I knew it…..they were MUCH softer but tasted the same so I let it go. Fast forward to a week or so ago I start feeling really tired again and start gaining that weight I just lost and it hit me…NOOOOO, NOT AGAIN!!!!! I went through this with Armour and now Erfa,when I was finally feeling good again 🙁
I was previously taking 3 grains so I bumped it up 4. We’ll see.
My pills have spots on them and exp in 2017.
Jenn
Sandra
Hey Jenn,
So how are you when you raised your dose?
Jenn A
Hi, well a little better but not as good as before 🙁 I did get my cycle on time this month so that is a good sign!
Thanks for asking.
Jenn
Jen
That’s weird. I got a 2017 batch and had NO SPOTS on them that the others are talking about. I went from Hypo to back to normal pretty quick..they were kicking in instantly as always. Bloodwork confirmed I was suppressed and back to normal again.
I’m on Nature-Thyroid right now..which is also working great. The only downside is the chalky taste if you don’t want to swallow it but I’ve gotten used to it. I just rinse my mouth out with water after they’re done disolving and swallow. I only switched to Naturethyroid from ERFA because it’s easier for me to get an rx. This ordering from overseas thing is getting old and expensive. I’ll never trust Armour again and ThyroidS made me hypo a few years ago when I tried it. It was awful.
diane
i have noticed only discolouration or specks if they have not been kept in a bottle or slightly damp, i have to cut my pills, which is a right pain as they tend to crumble anyway, so check to see if your pills might be being affected by moisture, i keep my pills in the brown bottle they come in, in the fridge because my house temp is 27c as otherwise it is to cold for me. I personally think the new 2017 batches are more potent. i am having to take a grain and a half and 25 mcgs t4 but may put this up to 50 mcgs every 2 days and see how i go, 2 grains of the new efra 2017 batch was to much for me, on the 2016 i’d been on it over 6 weeks and fine. drs have said they must give me pills all from the same batch in future.
Mo
Jen
how are you doing on the 2017 batch – have been on mine a week and and seem to be going hypo.
Anna
I would like to ask if anyone has tried combining Armour with cellulase (Candex etc) to break down cellulose?
diane
omg i had a batch of the 2016 it was sub potent and i can prove it because my t4 was 11 and my t3 was 5.2 i was taking 25mcgs t4 and 1 and 1/4 grains erfa and that was the same blood result as if i was still on 100mcgs t4 when t4 was still good for me, so i ended up on 2 grains of erfa and was getting better (over 6 weeks fine) upset tummy stopped no palpitations, then new batch of of erfa 2017 within 48 hrs palpitations all night, so dropped it, to 50mcg t4 1 grain erfa symptoms came back including upset tummy, so i’m going to try the 25mcgs t4 and 1 and 1/2 grain erfa, i need stability. the pharmacy also gave me 200 pills but 2 different 2017 batches in the same pill bottle, that might be hell.
Thea
Mostly to Ruth: Sorry I didn’t get back to you on this sooner. I’ve been frantically busy.
I did try to get information about a possible Health Canada recall, but this time they were so tight lipped I got nowhere. I’m about to start on a “new” batch, expiry date May/17; but first I want to get tested to establish a baseline, and I haven’t had the time to do even that. The new pills are a bit blotchy and a shade darker, but the difference is nothing like those pictured on this site. I’ll let everyone know if I start seeing problems with the new batch. Best of luck, everyone!
Dianne
Thea, do you mean ERFA was tight-lipped about a possible Health Canada recall, or that Health Canada was tight-lipped? I have a couple of 2017 tabs (LF03831B expiry 05/17). These tabs are smaller than my old stock. My old stock tabs are really white in colour, and matte in appearance. The new 2017 tabs I mentioned have ALOT of brown specks, probably about 40/50% of the tab is speckled. It’s also glossy in appearance. I haven’t tried the 2017 stock; it looks *so* different, I’m anxious about trying them. I wonder what the brownish specks are – cellulose, maybe? I hate speculating (wondering… being fearful), but that’s the position ERFA has left us in, imo.
Dianne
I also wonder, if there was a recall in-the-making, you would think that this information would have trickled down to at least some of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to about the ‘ERFA issue’. It’s surprising to me that NONE of the many pharmacists I’ve spoken to, while explaining my problems with the new ERFA, have heard anything about it. I’ll guess that I’ve spoken to approximately 20 pharmacists in my search for old stock. Then again, a couple of them haven’t even heard of ERFA Thyroid.
Jen
My 04/2017 Lot: LFO 3727A batch does not have any specks or discoloration to them. That is weird…I wonder if it’s mold from being poorly sealed/stored before it was shipped to you?
Dianne
I’m pretty sure the specks aren’t mold. The other two bad batches I had with expiry dates of 2016 also had brown specks. Strange that your 2017 batch has no specks, though.
Ruth
Hi Thea 🙂 Thank you for your message. I’m not surprised for Health Canada. Confidential confidential… 😉 I’ve asked the same question to many pharmacists about a recall but they all said “No recall”. 2 pharmacists talked about a short back order but that’s all. Honestly I trusted them. I hope that you will be okay. You’re absolutely right to be tested before taking the pills. It’s the best way to see if they make a difference or not. Best of luck to you and please give us a feedback 🙂
Thea
Hi Ruth, Dianne… Sorry for the confusion! My Oct. 27 post was related to earlier ones I made in this thread (Oct. 2&3), in which I said a pharmacist had mentioned a HC recall. When I asked for a copy of their notification or a link to it, though, I got denial that there had ever been a recall – as if the previous conversation had never happened. I have not contacted Erfa or HC; I don’t expect any better luck with that than the numerous others who have tried had.
Apologies, too, for taking so long to respond. For some reason I can’t get the comments notifications to work – trying something else this time – and I keep forgetting to come back here and look. Will try to check more often! 🙂
Dianne
Thanks for explaining that, Thea.
Ruth
I dont’ think that the size of the pill necessarily means that what is inside is different. Erfa clearly said that the manufacturer changed so the machines/mold that make pills are maybe different too.Erfa is still working for me and I’m happy to read other good testimonies about it 🙂
Jen
Yeah, it’s been a few days on them now and I’m no longer freezing or fatigued so clearly they are working for me even though there is something different about them. I’m still going to get blood work soon just for curiosity to see where the numbers are now since I was feeling like crap being without anything.
Ruth
I am so happy for you 🙂
It’s good to do blood tests. It’s important to know what’s going on in our body (even if numbers often are chinese for us -_- )
Jen
Thanks Ruth. I just wanted to update you that I have had bloodwork done after the 2017 ERFA and everything was back to being suppressed. I know TSH doesn’t mean much but I got back down to the 0.0’s where I feel good at.
Ruth
This is great 🙂 It’s a good Christmas present! I wish you all the best!
Mo
Erfa update
125mg
batch LFO3728A expiry 04/2017
Have taken for 1 week and better than last batch taken (13c06 expiry 03/2016 -had bad pains in legs when increased dose and gradual decline over the 3 months I took it). Its definitely the newer tablets. Not convinced yet but will see how I go.
Anyone else on 2017 and doing ok?
Jen
Yep, on 2017 as well. I saw at least 2 other people also say they’re on 2017 batches and it’s better. Mine expire 4/17. There is something different about them but now that it’s been a few days, they’re definitely kicking in. I was starting to go hypo from not having anything and I can at least say my energy is better and internal coldness is gone.
Pains in legs or charlie horses can be from a lack of magnesium so you might want to Google that if all else fails.
Jen
Update on ERFA expiration Date: 04/2017
Lot: LFO 3727A
125mg.
About me: Taking ERFA for since 2009 and this is my first try of the “new” batch..or anything after a 2016 expiration date. I normally have a suppressed/optimized TSH but have been going hypo while waiting for the mail and trying to get into a “good” doctor for a new rx of something else.
Pills are slightly larger.. almost like an M&M in size which is not normal.
Taste sweeter, like there is definitely more sugar. I wonder if the people saying their heart beat faster were reacting to the sugar? Could be if you have the same reaction to eating candy or some sugared junk food. I know that is a common reaction to people who avoid it out of their diets completely..diabetic or not.
Pills are softer, pretty much dissolve instantly when you kinda suck on them or just put them under your tongue.
I’m taking slightly less than my normal dosage because I don’t want to jump into a high dosage right off the bat after being off them…but I’m feeling them kicking in instantly..so they are working. It’s just too soon yet to confirm how well they are working or if they are indeed stronger or weaker than previous batches. I know TSH is useless per STTM, but since I know mine was going up due to NOT being on anything, if my numbers are going back “BELOW RANGE” to what they normally are then for me, personally, it will be a good indication it’s working.
Jen
All I’m saying by my post is something is definitely different if they got bigger in size and also scary the company is denying a change. Obviously something changed if the size changed. I still want to try something else…mostly because I’m sick of paying out of pocket for ERFA when Naturethroid and WP can be paid for with my insurance at the local pharmacy once I find a new doctor.
Anne
I’ve only just found this latest page, but thanks for coming back about your new tablets and the fact you feel them kicking in as soon as you take them. I’d love to get back to ERFA because I felt good on them originally and because they were just about acceptable to my endo, but I still can’t get hold of any with a 2017 expiry date. I’ve been taking Thyroid-S since June and am now used to them and they’re certainly very much cheaper, but they don’t have a known pharmaceutical company name behind them, so are totally unacceptable to everyone I mention them to here in UK!
Sandra
Curious how Thyroid-S is cheaper as I found the opposite?
Anne
Hi Sandra, I’m in England which may make a difference. I paid £135 for my last (bad) batch of 500 x 2 grains of ERFA, but I can buy 1000 x 1 grains of Thyroid-S for between £34.99 and £95 depending on which pharmacy I buy from. I can’t get an NHS prescription from my GP here, only a private one from a private doctor, which then has to go through one of our specialist importers and works out more expensive in the end!
Jen
Hi Anne, I actually tried Thyroid-s a few years ago and it made me more hypo than NewArmour. I hate all the colored additives in it, the colors. The taste reminded me of sucking on dry pasta… just colored, processed starch that isn’t good for us.
The batch of 2017 I bought was from the UK… you can always email them and ask what their current batches are.
I’m actually on Nature-thyroid right now which I rather not be due to the cellulose. But I’ve had bloodwork done and for me it’s the same as when I was on ERFA. The only reason I switched is because I’m in the USA and if I can at least get a doctor to write me any kind of rx, then my insurance will cover it.
Jen
Received my new bottle of ERFA today. Expiration Date 4/17 and a completely different label compared to my bottles that expire in 2016.
Scared to try them..
Ken
Hi! Brand new to using desiccated thyroid. I’ve been on 200 of the synthroid for about 15 years. Complained to my GO to see an endocrinologist and he always said my numbers were in range so there was no need. I had crazy pain between my shoulder blades for years. Given anti inflammatories and codeine lol.
Anyways I switched GPs and finally got to see an endocrinologist. I asked for desiccated thyroid. I swear the first day…..no cold hands…..and by the end of this week no more muscle aches and my hair coming out has slowed considerably. I also actually feel alert. I’m assuming I’m on Erfa. No idea how to find out the batch number etc….I do feel slightly dizzy and a little bloated but I’m celiac….not sure what’s in the pills. Anyways I feel better than on synthroid but I shouldn’t feel dizzy. Do I lower the desiccated dose a bit or get off it?
Thanks for the forum! Still learning about desiccated pills!
Gore
If Erfa is not good anymore, what are other options available for Canadians? I checked with several local pharmacies and they all say Erfa is the only NDT they sell. All online pharmacies I found require a prescription from a USA licensed doctor. Looks like switching to NP Thyroid by Acella is the right move, but how do I buy it from Canada?
Nick
I’ve just received a new prescription of ERFA and am disappointed to see that it appears to be the same batch as last time, ie LF0305 02/17.
I’ve got an appointment with my NHS endo in 10 days time (it’s only taken since May to get it) when I hope to get him to prescribe West Throid instead. What a nightmare!
zai
Hi everyone,
First of all thank you for a helpful & insightful forum.
I have hypothyroidism and been on ERFA for 3 month before travelling to Europe where they only had ARMOUR. I’m back on ERFA now for a month (3 graen) but I’ve had a bad reaction and all my hypo symptoms are back 🙁
I would like to change to the NP thyroid by Acella but the universal drugstore where I usually get my NDT does not distribute NP thyroid by Acella.
Does anyone know a pharmacy where I can aquire NP thyroid? Preferably a pharmacy that can send the drug overseas.
If you prefer you can email me directly at zaimlay@gmail.com
thanks zai
Anna
On 8 grains of “new” Erfa (4×125 mg), my FT4 levels were barely mid-range, and my FT3 levels suboptimal. I have had to raise it to 10 grains daily.
Is there any risk of shortages of other brands, like WP Thyroid or NP Thyroid?
I have also been considering Thyro Gold, as it has been getting great reviews, but some claim porcine thyriod is closer to human chemistry than bovine thyroid…so I’d love to hear from anyone having tried Thyro Gold!
Jen
What is the expiration date on your bottle though? But yeah, this is what I was worried about with attempting to try ERFA again… needing MORE.
ThyroGold was also recommended to me by people having success with it. If I were to actually try it, I might just get blood work tested more often just for curiosity or peace of mind.
I don’t think pig vs ox or cow or whatever thyroid matter at this point in time. The more sources the better because it seems we’re all getting desperate as the years go by. If one animal is half the human chemistry, seems we would just need more of the other kind to make the same amount. Ugh, remember the Armour shortage? That was scary especially for those without thyroids.
Lola
Anna, Jen… Check out nutripakonline.com also. Seems to be like Thyrogold at half the price. It was mentioned by another poster on this site (ck earlier posts) and it is offered in bovine or porcine.
Anna
Jen,
The Erfa pills I am currently taking expire 03/16. I have 2 grain pills (125 mg), the label is no longer blue/white but pink/white.
Lola,
Thank you so much!
It’s great to have alternatives…I am in Europe (Belgium), and all pharmacies I have been in contact with no longer carry Armour, they only carry Erfa…which means I have no options should I ever find it ineffective even after raising it. I cannot get NP Thyroid or WP Thyroid here, so I am stuck with Erfa…
Anne
Anna those sound like the ones I have, batch 13C06 expiry 03/16 125mgs, with a pink and white label. I got mine last November and have been told they were made at the old factory in Belgium but they seem to have some new filler to which I’m allergic, they caused an upset stomach, made me feel faint, dizzy, have palpitations, after three days I went back to an old jar and haven’t taken any more. I’ve heard from four others around the world with bad reactions to that batch and one person who said it was fine. I’ve switched to Thyroid-s and will now try NP or WP.
Anna
Anne,
I looked more closely, and it’s the same batch as yours:-(
Jen
Anna, just wondering – do you have a thyroid?
Anna
Yes, I have a thyroid. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis in 1995, and spent ten years on T4 drugs only.
Hope
Hi
I need a good advice…I live in denmark and use Erfa Thyroid but I am perhaps able to switch to NP Thyroid, Westhroid, Wrsthorid Pure og Nature Pure. Which one would you recommend?
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Hope. They all work. It’s more about individual preferences. If I, Janie, ever have to switch, I lean towards NP Thyroid.
Hope
Thank you so much Janie
Jen
Why is that Janie? To me, it seems like WP would be the next best option due to less fillers but I have noticed Naturethyroid seems to be more people on all the groups.
Janie Bowthorpe
RLC Labs does strong marketing with doctors which is probably why u see a lot of folks on Naturethroid. But WP Thyroid is a good product, too. I just personally like the Acella company a lot.
Jen
Thank you Janie for the explanation!
Anna
Hope,
If you ever switch to another brand in Denmark, I’d appreciate if you let me know…as I guess a brand available in one EU country could be imported to other Member States?
I am desperate to find some alternatives, as I can only get Erfa in Belgium, and I hate being stuck with one brand…I have already had to raise it to 10 grains daily. This means one 100 ct bottle will last less than a month…I don’t know about other countries, but in Belgium, NDT is very expensive…which makes me even more reluctant to pay for something that does not work optimally. The few doctors who prescribe it also charge several hundred € a visit, so it’s very frustrating…a vicious circle, to be honest.
Janie, can I interpret your comment to mean that Nature-Throid works better than Armour for most patients?
Janie Bowthorpe
Anna, no, I’m not saying that about Naturethroid vs Armour. There are patients on both and from what we can tell about reports from the last few years, they have both working well for patients. In fact, other than Erfa, that’s true with all desiccated Thyroid products. Sure there might be some odd reports here and there, which may have something to do with a patients low iron or cortisol issue that the NDT is revealing, or due to a patient reacting to a filler, or that odd bad batch here or there. There might even be the latter going on right now with some batches of Armour. But overall from reports. they all work (other than this year’s batch of Erfa in places).
Hope
Jen do you know which batch to avoid??? I am not sure if I dare to buy Erfa again and if I dont, I am not sure which brand I should try. I am afraid to end up with all the symptoms again…
Lola
Hope.. The bad batch of erfa that caused my dizziness, light-headedness is batch # LF03139A – exp 10/2016.. 100# – 60 mg. I have a terrible habit of leaving a few tabs
in my bottles of erfa so I have a few bottles around the house that I know were okay. The good batches (most of them probably not available anymore) are…
I2616 -exp 7-2015, 100# 30 mg, I3011, exp 3-2016 – 500# – 30 mg., I2026 – exp 4/2015, 100# – 60 mg. I think these are all from the Belgium mfg facility. My dosage
is 60 mg one day and 90 mg the next, alternating. So I often purchase the 60 mg and 30 mg bottles.
When Armour prices started going up in the spring, I decided to stock up on erfa and boy.. .did I stock up. I have several unopened bottles of erfa that I am scared to
use until we have a more comprehensive list (wish it was posted in one place) of ‘bad’ batches. The ones I have on hand that I am fearful of using are..
LF03140B – exp 10/2016 -500# 60 mg, LF03057A – exp 10/2016 – 100# 30 mg. It would be nice if there was a formal recall so we could get refunds on
unopened bottles.
Hope, you should do just fine on either the WP Thyroid by RLC Labs or the NP Thyroid by Acella Labs. I am taking the WP now and doing fine. My
hubby was recently dx hypo and his doc gave him a rx for the NP this last time and I tried it for a week or so and loved it (had hubby on the good erfa
when he was first dx). He transitioned from the old erfa to NP with no problems. When I have my yearly thyroid ckup, I plan on asking for an rx for the
NP since it seems to be so much like the old Armour. The 30 mg is a tiny, tiny pill tho and difficult to split. Hubby is on 45 mg per day.
Anne
Lola I was told by a friend that her batch of 1 grain LF03140B 10/16 is fine but I haven’t tried it so don’t know for sure. Thank you for mentioning how good WP and NP are, I am going to try those I think because I’m not happy with the Thyroid-S which I switched to.
Lola
Hi, Anne. Well, that tears it (friend doing fine on LF03140B) if that is true and I have no reason to doubt your friend’s experience. That means that the problem may lie with one of the fillers in the ‘new’ Erfa, a filler that people react very differently to. It seems some of us are reacting instantly to something in the ‘new’ Erfa tabs. That begins to make sense, doesn’t it? The labs would only be checking for the active ingredients and their potency. They wouldn’t be lying if they said it checked out but I wonder if they are being straight with us about different additives.
The same thing is going on with the ‘new’ Armour… that is.. some folks doing fine on it and others doing horribly on it and everyone acknowledges that it is the filler in Armour that is the problem… it impedes absorption. If those of us who are not doing well on the ‘new’ Erfa are having an allergic reaction, that will be hard to quantify and address with the powers that be.
The thyroid S has tons of additives and food colorings in it, thiroyd not so much. I think you will be thrilled with NP Thyroid by Acella. It is soooo like the old Armour that so many of us did well on for
so many years.
Janie Bowthorpe
The new Armour mostly caused problems in 2009 and early 2010. Today, folks seem to report doing fine on it overall.
Anna
Does this mean that Armour reformulated again; not back to the original formula, but decreased cellulose somewhat?
Has anyone noticed a difference between various strentghs; I spent a few months on Armour back in 2012 (15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 mg pills), and did very well on it as long as I chewed the pills up. I raised it to 5 grains daily and felt fine. Then I switched to 300 mg pills, and crashed within a couple of days. So I wonder if the larger pills contain more cellulose, making them less effective? On the 5 grain pills, I took one and a half pill a day (7,5 grains), and I might just as well have taken sugar pills…
Jen
I don’t know Hope. All I’m getting from many posts is that it seems like the 2016 batches. Only a few people seemed to have chanced trying anything after 2017 and it’s not enough to go by… I was on the same dosage for a few years, optimized and my last bottle expired in 2015.
I don’t know what to do. I chickened out and ordered a 2017 batch of ERFA along with Naturethroid because I’m desperate and the website I order from has limited options. I’ve read through enough posts on here and FB that basically confirm Naturethyroid is the next most popular option especially for those of us without thyroids. I’ll either try both or send one back and demand a refund. I last used Armour back in 09 and will never trust them again.
Anne
But didn’t Naturethroid also reformulate just like Armour in about 2011? I took it after Armour in 2009 and was happy with it but then heard it was re-formulating and didn’t want to go through the same thing again so that’s when I switched to ERFA. I wonder if the people doing well on it are new users or were already taking it before 2011. I’m considering WP or NP, but would be far happier if I could find some good ERFA.
Janie Bowthorpe
The Naturethroid reformulation wasn’t like the Armour reformulation, no. It was a change, but nothing as drastic.
Jen
Yeah, I was concerned about that too Anne. I know I did try Naturethyroid back in 2009 after the Armour change but probably didn’t give it enough of a chance back then… the fact that it didn’t dissolve under the tongue well was enough of a turn off for me…. it’s what I liked abut ERFA so much. I guess we have to accept there won’t be a perfect medication that never changes… we’re all going to have to go through this every few years for whatever reason..whether it’s a reformulation or change in processing plants or something stupid. It sucks..but that is with any medication or drug..they pretty much own us in that way.
I’m in the USA and the only thing that sucks for me about ERFA was always having a hell of a time getting an rx for it..even half an rx for half the dosage I was taking. At least if I give Naturethyroid another try, I can eventually get a doctor to write a prescription for my full dosage or partial dosage and I can get it in a local pharmacy which my insurance will cover. WP or Acella look better to me but there are no guarantees they’ll never change either.
Jen
Where are the updates on this story? Now people on the FB groups are saying it was a bad batch and they received a newer batch of ERFA and feel good. But since I do not have a thyroid, I do not want to take the chance. I come to this page looking for confirmation and you haven’t updated since May.
Dianne
If you read through the posts, you will see that ERFA continues to deny there is any wrong with ERFA Thyroid. So it doesn’t look like there are any updates per se. One poster says she emailed Dr. Knafo just recently, in the last week or so; and he still says there is nothing changed/wrong.
Jen
I have actually read the posts including on the FB groups and there are some people who swear they are doing fine again on the newer batches but it seems most people are reluctant to try them. I find that strange. I guess I was looking for more confirmation from real people that the 2017+ batches were good again but apparently nobody wants to touch that yet.
Dr. Knafo seems like a puppet. All I’m getting out of the ERFA posts is that they keep changing processing companies. But thanks, I decided to go ahead and purchase something else for backup now.
Anne
It was more than one bad batch Jen. Mine were bought in November 2013, in a new style jar but made at the old factory in Belgium apparently. People are still being dispensed ‘bad’ batches of the tablets here in England even now. Those are from the new factory in Spain. I have had a long email conversation with Dr Knafo, approaching 30 emails, in which he is variously concerned, having an independent analysis carried out on all the batches complained about out, saying nothing is wrong, asking if I’ve had new blood tests done and even one asking how I am doing now. This episode has convinced my endo that ERFA was never any good anyway and he’s even more enthusiastic about Armour which I don’t get on with. I agree with Dianne that the problem doesn’t seem to be hormone content but some other ingredient or damage to an ingredient possibly during transit. Unfortunately there will probably be fewer and fewer updates because many of us with ‘bad’ batches of ERFA are all having to change to other brands. The ERFA company aren’t admitting there is any problem and are waiting for all the fuss to die down. I can only suggest that you ask what batches your chosen pharmacy can supply you with and then do a search for them here and on some of the Facebook pages dedicated to thyroid issues to see if they are mentioned as being good or bad.
Dianne
Reporting on a new batch that I tried a few days ago. I took one 60 mg tablet (sublingually) from a refill that I was able to find in my search for (hopefully) older stock. I can report that Lot #12K16 exp. 11/15 is a no-go. My reactions weren’t quite as bad as the reactions I had to two previous (different batches), which lasted (the reactions) for several days. The reactions I had to this batch, though, were dizziness, off-balance-‘ness’, spaciness, confusion, headache, sheer exhaustion, I got really hot/flushed, then I got really cold/shivering, stomach burning/belching. I felt so wiped out about 1 hour after taking the tablet, that I basically passed out on my bed for a couple of hours. These reactions gradually wore off as the day went on. I had saved about a week’s worth of reliable older stock that I’ve been taking for a few months now (exp is earlier 2015, and I don’t have the lot #), so I went back on those the next day, and I was ‘back to normal’.
I have since been able to find some different 60 mg 2015 tablets. These are lot #12D261 exp. 04/2015. I pray these are older stock as I’ve only got 3 tablets left of my reliable stock. I also picked up 2 – 60 mg tablets of 2017 stock Lot# LF03831B expiry 05/2017, just to try these. It’s pretty bad, but I’m SCARED to try either one, and I have to set aside a day when I can afford to be sicker/(or, I feel almost poisoned?). If anyone has info on either of these, I’d appreciate it.
Jen
But you’ve only taken a few pills? It’s really not even enough time to know though if you only have taken a couple pills. If you were getting hypo like the rest of us, it’s not like popping an Advil for a headache and expecting instant good feeling. It needs to build up a little, and bring all your levels back down. All you are really describing is your adrenals crashing (passing out on your bed) which will happen to anyone getting NT back into their system after being hypo or going from nothing/synthetic back to NT.
I am seeing ERFA being sold with a much further expiration date of 11/2016 which I do not want to waste money on in if nobody has tried it for at least 1-2 weeks.
Dianne
No, you’re wrong. You don’t know my history with ndt, nor does it seem you have read all of the previous posts. I’ve been on ERFA Thyroid for over 6 years now, and did pretty well on it. Then the bad ERFA batches started appearing in late 2012, early 2013. In Jan 13 I had a bad reaction to one bad tablet in one of the bad batches; and yes, instantly, after one tablet. If you look through the posts, there are some of us that have reacted almost instantly. This reaction is more of an allergic reaction to one, or more of the ingredients. Plus, it did seem to cause instant hypo-feelings in me, as well. I don’t know what the heck is in this newly manufactured ERFA Thyroid that is causing these reactions – but whatever it is, it isn’t good.
I went back to my old stock each time after having 3 separate reactions to 3 separate lot#’s, and did fine. So this time, I tried another batch again, and reacted instantly after just one tablet, so thought I would report the lot# and expiry date. I won’t be taking any more tablets from any of the batches that give me this bad reaction; so, yes, my post was about my reaction after ‘popping’ one tablet. If it did, in fact, cause my adrenals to crash, as well; then, this is also a problem that ERFA should be addressing/acknowledging.
Lola
I will throw my hat (name) in the ring as one who has done fantastic on natural desiccated thyroid for almost twenty years. I went on the old Armour back in the mid-nineties and switched
to Erfa in 2009 after the reformulation of Armour without skipping a beat. No problems whatsoever. When my old Erfa ran out and I reordered a batch which was due to expire in 10/16,
I became light-headed, dizzy and felt like I was going to pass out after just a few days. Since then, I have been ‘shopping around’ for a substitute and settled on WP Thyroid and I am
doing just fine on it.. same dosage, no dizziness, no light-headiness etc. All this happened back in the spring of this year. Oh, I have never had iron or adrenal problems.
By the by… has anyone noticed that most of the problem Erfa seems to have a 10/16 epiry date? I read somewhere that a person is doing just fine on a batch.. lot # LF03508A, expiry 2/17.
Maybe, maybe (fingers crossed), the powers that be did have a problem with the first batches coming out of the mfg in Spain but has now fixed the problem? If so, what a shame that they
don’t share this with us. I would switch back to Erfa in a NY minute.
Jen
No, that is what I’m trying to figure out. I’m seeing expiration dates for May 2016 and November 2016 on some sites. What is the problem batch..anyone even know for sure?
Angie
OK folks, I think that it is about time to get our complaints together and talk to HealthCanada. As I said, we’re in the middle of a move, but once that is complete, it’s time. IMHO, ERFA’s move to a new manufacturing facility was a mistake. In their initial response to Janie, they state that they haven’t changed their formulation, but my question regarding raw product source went unanswered. I can not begin to tell you all how this has affected my life. ERFA, in its old formulation, was the dessicated thyroid hormone that gave me my life back. Why it worked so well for me, I don’t really know, but it did. I have asked to see the results of their investigation and have been told that I could see IF I would sign some sort of non-disclosure (if nothing is wrong, why would I NEED to sign a non-disclosure). We need to pull in the other thyroid sites on this and approach them en masse. I am willing to help with a lot of the work, but we can not just accept this. If nothing else, then I may employ a testing laboratory to compare batches and share my own results. ERFA’s response, quite frankly, surprises me. They seemed to be very reputable and responsive to their pts in the past. Saying there is not an issue when so many people are having problems coupled with the fact that the “Investigation” results are being held very close to the vest indicates to me that there IS most definitely a problem.
Angie
Janie Bowthorpe
You’ll need to be very careful how you present this. i.e. it will have to be clear that anyone who is now doing bad on Erfa was, in fact, doing fabulous before i.e no other symptoms whatsoever and for a long while. Honesty with oneself is crucial here for the integrity of what is presented. There have been some on here who clearly have low cortisol and/or low iron, and that can make Erfa look like it’s the problem, when in reality, the problem was the iron/cortisol.
Another good argument is presenting honestly how much better one is doing on another brand of the same amount.
Sandra
Hi Janie,
I am in Canada and my situation is that my hypothyroid symptoms over the last 6 months were getting worse, bit by bit over time, with the exception of feeling better on only one batch (I get only a months worth of pills at a time) of pills. I have been on Erfa’s thyroid for 5 years now and been balanced on hydrocortisone as well for years.I won’t get into the details but for me, well, lets say that even though I was not functioning like before, I would forget just how great I was doing, basically back to the accepting a new normal. Well, let me tell you, this past week at work has been highly stressful and I put in longer days than usual which would have landed me on my butt (but not before January it wouldn’t have) this weekend. And today, my first day off, I was up at 6am, cleaning the house, whipped up some paleo pancakes before driving for an hour and a half for a fun day (which I have had next to none of since this Erfa disaster happened, even with taking 3, 1 week vacations this summer) to view a lottery show home, went for dinner, walked around Home Sense, drove back home, walked the dog for 30 minute and am not wiped.
So, why did I have a great day and actually a great week? Mmmmm, could it be the Thyroid-S I’ve started at the beginning of the week? I now have 3 full bottles (3 months supply) of Erfa’s thyroid sitting in my cupboard of which I am fearful to try again and have spent my hard earned money on!!! Thyroid-S is far more expensive but so is not being able to do my job well.
As well, I find this very very interesting. I thought I had entered into menopause as my last menses was Oct 2 last year. Well is it also a coincidence that after being on Thyroid-S for a few days that for the first time in a year it returned?
I truly wonder.
Darcy M
Sandra,
How are you getting Thyroid-S? I have looked into it, but can’t seem to find a way to get it. I have also looked at another Thai brand called Thiroid, but again, no way of reaching the company that makes it.
RIght now I take a compounded NDT. Tried to switch back to my last batch of ERFA, and same as last may, they seem to not work. I thought I would try again. Thinking it might have been something else.
I am heading to Thailand in Jan for three months and would love to know I can get something there that works.
Darcy
Sandra
Hi Darcy,
so sorry I have not been here for sometime. my apologies, my life has been extremely busy and stressful. There is a facebook page for THyroid-S and that should help you.
Anne
Sandra, when you switched to Thyroid-S did you take the same dose as before or did you increase or decrease it at all? I’ve switched on the same dose and am not sure, feel slightly jittery, not quite a stable as I was on ERFA. Not sure if it’s the Thyroid-S or something else.
Sandra
Hi Anne,
Yes I too found the same sort of symptoms as I took the same dose but I have been dealing with extreme stress at work and as I’m also on hydrocortisone was not sure if all I was experiencing was at all related to not enough HC or the dose of Thyroid-S. So then I was feeling quite warm and decided to lower by 30 mg and ended up quite chilly at night so put it back up by 15 mg. I will stick with that and see how I do. Big thing I’ve been experiencing is serious heart pounding at night, probably adrenal related though.
Cynthia
How did you get them into Canada? I have the source, but when I select shipping to Canada its a no go! You can email me privately at cynthia.ryan @ gmail . com
Sandra
Hi Cynthia,
That’s weird. I will check into it and email.
Jen
I agree. I’m one of the ones who was on ERFA for years perfectly with no symptoms and I do not have a thyroid. I ran out of a good supply and saw this mess everyone was in and have been afraid to waste money on a reformulation or bad batch. A lot of these posts on here are not helpful to those of us NOT new to NT. Some people are simply describing their body’s reaction to just getting on NT. Or, maybe just maybe they only need a minimum dosage of NT anyway because they still have a real thyroid that works.
NT is sort of like a stimulant. If you were going hypo like I currently am, and start getting it back into your system.. you will have some symptoms as your body gets kicked back into gear. Sorry, but I went through this back in 09 when Armour went to crap and it’s not going to be as easy as popping a pain killer for a headache and getting instant relief. It wasn’t torture but there were side effects from everything working again.
Anne
I also went through the rubbish with Armour, several of us here did. I don’t think most of us here have simply listed our symptoms and implied we were new users of ERFA, I’ve been taking it since the Armour disaster and got on very well with it, which is all the more annoying now. I have mentioned my symptoms because they were immediate on starting my latest batch, not a gradual decline as I got further into the jar, which has led me to believe there was something in them which either shouldn’t have been there or which had been degraded in storage or transit. In such a case the re-analysis arranged by the ERFA company would not have shown anything wrong because it was looking for hormone content. It is as annoying for most of us here as it it for you. I have switched to another make which I don’t think is as good and am hoping that whatever was wrong is found and admitted to so that I can go back to ERFA with confidence, for the moment I’ve lost confidence in it.
Thea
For what it’s worth: I was just at my (Canadian) pharmacist’s today and was informed that Health Canada had recalled the “bad batches” of Erfa Thyroid. This came about as I was checking to make sure they ordered in a 2015 or later expiry date next time they needed a new bottle for me – it’s a tiny pharmacy and I’m their only Erfa customer. I haven’t been affected because the old supply they had was all right, but I knew they were due to order more soon.
I checked the HC site and could find no mention of such a recall. I searched in all the ways I could think of. If anyone else can find it, I’d appreciate the link to it. Maybe there are recalls that the public doesn’t get to see..?
Anne
Thea I emailed Dr Knafo and asked about a recall, because I had read about one on a Facebook page too, but he replied that there has been no recall at all. This is a shame because without one I cannot get a refund for my jar of 490+ 2 grain tablets which I can’t use.
Ruth
Hello Thea! May I ask you which pharmacy is it? I asked in different pharmacies but they were surprised of my words. They said that recalls were always official and Health Canada cannot just hide the information… Moreover they don’t care if a company has a bad image, they’re doing the job that’s all. Well it’s my opinion… Maybe your pharmacy mixed with a back order or something
Thea
Hi Ruth,
Thanks for your reply and Anne’s too. I am reluctant to give the name of my pharmacy because it identifies too closely my own location to all and sundry, hence there are privacy concerns.
Next week I will ask that pharmacist to give me a link, print out the notice, or email it to me. I hope this works.
Angie
Thought I’d check in and apologize (I was actually going to get lots, etc. together). We are in the middle of a move AND had a car accident that injured my back. I have now bought two lots of ERFA trying again. Not sure what is going on, but my system can not handle. This latest batch (lot #L3505A) seems to be STRONG. Too strong. Causing me anxiety and tension, sweaty palms, etc., etc. What the heck is going on with this company? Janie, is there any news or do you have a suggestion? Am really done with ERFA at this point until and unless they go back to their old plant and formulation. And don’t bother telling me that the formulation has not changed and that it’s me, ERFA.
Janie Bowthorpe
Oh no Angie. Sorry to read about your back. No, nothing is being admitted by Erfa.
Nick
As far as I know, batch L3505A is one of the older batches. Does yours have an expiry date on it, and if so what is it?
Angie
Nick, this is a 2014 manufactured batch with 2/17 expiration date..
Nick
Thanks Angie,
I had, mistakenly it seems, assumed that the batch numbers were sequential, ie each new batch had a higher batch number. But that appears not to be the case so I assume that the batch number perhaps applies to where it was produced, and we need to go by the expiry date.
I made a discovery only the other day that my (current) container of ERFA contains stickers with two batch numbers on it. One says LF037A Expiry 02/17, and the second label says LF0305A, expiry 02/17. I’m nearly through that container now so assume that it is highly unlikely that I have not taken tablets from both both batches, and I still don’t feel better.
I’ve just ordered some more from the hospital, and will phone the pharmacy later and see if they can tell me which batch numbers they are currently working. I did find out recently that there are another 15 (NHS) patients on ERFA from the same endo, but none of them have apparently made a complaint about it.
I wrote to Lloyds pharmacy who supply my ERFA and asked if it was true that they had applied for a license to supply West Throid. In a typically evasive reply (does anybody do straight answers these days?) they just said that I could give them a prescription for the product that I wanted, and they would tell me if they could supply it. Hardly helpful when I need to tell the endo what I want, and therefore know in advance if it is available.
Anne
Nick is your latest batch of ERFA ok and if so can you let me know the batch number etc? When I first mentioned this problem to a private doctor who prescribes ERFA he said no-one else had complained, I don’t understand why this is only affecting some of us. I’m still taking Thyroid-S but don’t like it much and am just hoping I can find some good ERFA. I don’t want to keep switching to other brands in the hope one of them will be ok.
Lola
I also have noticed how the WP changes when exposed to air. The pills in the original WP bottle w/cottom stay nice and white and separated. The ones I put in my weekly dispenser get
a little darker, a little gummy and stick together. They seem to dissolve sublingually just fine tho w/o having to chew them a little. I only have a week’s worth out at a time so not too
worried about losing potency during just a week. Just finished up a 30 mg/100 count bottle and started on another with no hypo symptoms so far.
The ingredients, as listed on the package insert, are inulin, medium chain triglycerides and *lactose monohydrate (*trace amts only). I really wonder if the pills may have a waxy
coating or some kind of oil coating to hold them together? There is nothing in the ingredients list to indicate how they manage that. I would think they would have to list anything
like that on the ingredients list?
Sarah
Keep hold of the little drying packets that come inside the WP Thyroid plastic tubs. Transfer them into your dispensing bottles. That’s what I do to stop them from going brown and sticky…….it works.
Hope that helps?
Christie
I just stumbled across this site and am so thankful I did. I’m blown away at what I’m readying. I have been taking Erfa’s Thyroid since I moved to Canada in July of 2012 and just figured out I needed to increase my dosage back in January of this year. I finally began to feel normal again. I picked up a refill in August, and ever since then I have been feeling terrible. I told my husband my pills look different but never thought anything about it…..until now. I have been feeling like crap! Fatigue, muscle aches, brain fog,dizziness, you name it……all because of a bad batch!? I’m angry. I feel helpless. Sorry for the rant. My question is what other options do I have here in Canada for desiccated thyroid? TIA
Michelle G.
Christie I’m so sorry you are going through all that, it sounds unbearable;-) I too live in Canada & have only recently started ERFA, 6 weeks ago, but am actually doing better on it than Synthroid (20+ years). I’ve tried, unsuccessfully to get WP-Thyroid (Westthroid)-they simply cannot ship to Canada (HPB, Health Protection Branch, Issues). One option is to get a script from a USA doctor (ND, MD etc) & get your Rx filled in the USA as well. I’m still looking into it as WP Thyroid is a superior product (Gluten-Free acceptable fillers) , IMO, though I’ve read that some people do not do well on it either.
Janie Bowthorpe
If anyone says they aren’t doing well on WP Thyroid, that’s more due to having a cortisol or iron problem, or not raising high enough.
Pattycakes
Janie i have noticed that WP Thyroid pills become gummy when exposed to air/humidity & become difficult to dissolve sublingually. Do you suppose this affects their potency?
To avoid spoiling the entire contents of the bottle, I dispense several days into tiny zip bags, instead of weekly dispensers, whose snap lids are not as airtight as they appear to be.
Janie Bowthorpe
Many NDT pills will get like that if exposed to too much moisture, but not sure it affects potency or not….
Angie
Janie:
I do not absorb it very well at all. Can’t be iron or cortisol (at least for me 🙂 ) as I’d do ok when I’d switch back. The only thing that helped with my absorption was taking a little Lact-Aid with the tablets. I am lactose intolerant so figured I may not be able to “break down” the tablets sufficiently.
Angie
Tammy
Where do I find the Lot # and expiration? I’ve been using Thyroid from Canada’s Universal Pharmacy for years and with my new 6 months supply, just discovered the visual difference in the pills, EXACTLY as what’s pictured on here as the old ERFA & new ERFA. Haven’t started them yet, but I went thru the whole Armour nightmare a few years back and now my heart is sinking once again :-/ Looking for the Lot & expiration but only finding is the DIN number.
Another strange difference that’s now raised HUGE red flags. The label on my old bottle says: “Universal Drugstore” with the address & etc.. BUT the new bottle now says: “Altec Drug Services” and with the same address & etc, and no reference at all of “Universal”.
And here’s what a quick google search brought up regarding Altec:
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120810/NEWS/308109962
From 2012:
“Altec Medical Pleads Guilty in Gray-Market Drugs Case
By Joe Carlson
Posted: August 10, 2012
Altec Medical, Easley, S.C., will pay a fine of $2 million and forfeit another $1 million after the corporation pleaded guilty to buying pharmaceuticals from a gray-market supplier and then reintroducing them into the U.S. drug market for sale at retail pharmacies.
The corporation also was sentenced to a year of probation by U.S. District Judge Robert Scola in Miami after pleading guilty to conspiring to defraud the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the U.S. Justice Department said in a news release.
Prosecutors charged that Altec paid co-conspirator William Rodriguez about $55 million between 2007 and 2009 for prescription drugs that company officials knew had been illegally diverted from distribution channels regulated by the FDA. The company then created fake “drug pedigrees” that purported to show that the unidentified drugs had been acquired legally.
Rodriguez pleaded guilty to conspiracy and money laundering in June 2012 but has not yet been sentenced, according to the release.
A spokesperson for Altec could not be reached for comment late Friday.
According to the Justice Department, in many cases diverted drugs come from boxes stolen from warehouses or cargo trucks, from repackaged free samples or from patients who resell them for profit.”
Sally
This is my very first “social” connection. I am thankful to have found this site. I am very new on computers but very Old with thyroid/health &complications. Total thyroid ¶thyroid removal due to cancers, 40 years ago. Years of radiation, etc. but through all that I taught myself nutrition, supplementation, and organic gardening ( Drs. Back then were not taught much about nutrition.). I learned I need High doses of B complex twice a day, among many other bits of knowledge to keep me going. As an aside, my children grew up running through the room waving , saying,” hi radioactive mommy.” I’ve had a lifetime of radiation due to recurrences, etc. began at age 25.
That is a brief history to lead into my present unpleasant symptoms. I have been lethargic, exhausted & weak, very unlike myself, for 6 mos. saliva test ( results yesterday) cortisol ok except mid day ( I feel weak & worndown from wake up to bedtime). Estrogens, 3 , too high, TESToSterone out the roof. Iron was low a year ago supplemented now, blood says is ok. I’ve suffered severe depressions thru the years also and not so great right now. Besides the high need for calcium, D, magnesium, also need huge amts of potassium x thirty + years. On synthroid .1 two x a day. A wise Dr. Added cytomel .25mcg about 25 years ago. So what is happening to me now? I am sad, frustrated, & want to be the Real Me again. Thank you for having a place I can write where someone might understand.
Sandra
Sally you simply must read all of Janies website, get her books and you will find hope in that the information she has blessed us with. Also there are good dessicated thyroid products that are superior to synthroid. Right now many of us are frustrated with Erfa’s Thyroid but there are others to try.
Good luck!
beano
Sooooo, Im doing BAD. I need HELP
I posted last month about starting Amour again since i couldn’t refill my Erfa, and i posted about doing so well. now Im doing really bad, bad for last 2 weeks (maybe since 2nd refill Armour)
you can see my original post at bottom.
I had a pituitary tumor when i was 8 years old- so mine is pituitary related- but never been on thyroid, etc (at time not hypo, only estrogen deficient) until last decade, maybe?.
things downhill since started thyroid maybe do not need it but I’m trapped now- if i try to cut down, i crash
SO NOW- Im wondering if i have adrenal insufficiency
i have all the symptoms
why would that be after 2 refills on armor?
My thyroid labs came back ok
my 8am cortisol blood test was 6.3…. is that considered too low?
I feel so horrible, so much anxiety , palps, fatigue, etc I hope i don’t loose my job or die
should i see a naturopath, or an internist? My endocrinologist doesn’t help- they said they do not diagnose adrenal fatigue, if i go on cortisone drugs i will gain tons of weight
help!!
old post:
beano
August 25, 2014
So I posted back in June about doing poorly on ERFA. I am now on Amour thyroid- and heres my update
first- here was my initial post in June:
bean
June 18, 2014
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
hope this is information to anyone seeking it
–––––––-
update 8-2014
So- Ive come around 360 degrees. Armour back in 2009 I think, was the thing that got me switching all around since reformulating and doing bad. Then nature-throid changed, and so on until I took ERFA. So I changed back to Armour (thats what the pharmacy gave me and what my inexperienced in NT endo called in. I think Armour is doing better. I am DEFINITELY better than when taking ERFA !! I was a bit skeptical about going back on Armour since it sent me on this medical wild goose chase through hell and back- but thought i’d try it and if it didn’t work I could ask for something else. So far feel ok, Ive lost 4 pounds and shed waist fat for sure (on ERFA was STUCK in a weight gain pattern), overall thinner, more energy. I do get periods of panic attacks and skipped heart beats so I don’t like that, and its probably due to the Armour (hypo? Hyper ? ) . I’m going to stick with it and see how it treats me for now since its way better than Erfa. The price went up , oh well. And by the way- I asked for my LOT numbers on the Erfa- and they WOULD NOT give them to me! Ok bye for now.
see top post. help
Sandra
oh Beano,
I am so sorry you are doing so very terribly. Of course i am not expert but perhaps you could get some help from the moderators on the thyroidless yahoo chat group. They have been a god sent to lots of us.
It does sound to me like adrenal issues but it is hard because hypo and adrenal sometimes have the same symptoms and of course when you are not well, it all just becomes so frustratingly confusing what your feeling.
Perhaps Janie could offer you some advice of a next step to take with your doctor.
beano
its hard to get to the dr because they are booked out months- so scary. they flat out told me on phone they do not diagnose adrenal “fatigue”
Sandra
Hi Beano,
So perhaps you need to find a doctor who does diagnose adrenal insufficiency. If you go on the thyroidless chat group they can give you a list of doctors to try and contact. I know it is so overwhelming when you are so fatigued but you must try to find the right person to help you.
Janie also does consulting so maybe she can give you some direction.
I wish you all the best and sorry for not being of any real help.
Sam
Hello, I’m looking to switch to a NDT from synthroid/SR lyothyronine combo and being in Canada was going to aim for Erfa. Now reading this I’m a little worried.
Does anyone know/ has anyone bought Erfa from their new batches since the complaints to see if it has gone back?
Thanks!
Sandra
Hi Sam,
I will be receiving a new batch by the end of this week and of course it takes a couple of days for me to know if it is good or not but will let you know.
Michelle G.
Sam I’m currently taking ERFA for the first time ever, 6 weeks now & am not experiencing any of the debilitating side-effects that others have been reporting. However, I live in Canada & perhaps that may mean different batch numbers than those shipped to USA/INT’L locations- most probably I’d say. Why that should make any difference though is another mystery.
Dave
Hi, does anyone know if the old Armour is back to the way it was, before the re-formulation in 2009? I have read various forums that it now looks and smells like the original version. After reading the comments on this site, I’m very dubious about starting up with Erfa again, either way I need to get off Levothyoxine as soon as possible.
Janie Bowthorpe
Dave, not sure if the “old Armour” is back. But….Armour started working better again by late 2010, so it’s fine.
Dave
Thank you Janie. Great site by the way.
Anna
I think those conflicting reports about a possible second reformulation are very confusing…some say Armour works better now than in 2009, while others find it as ineffective as ever. In recent months, the price of Armour has doubled where I live (Belgium). I admit to being at a loss here…but my current batch of Erfa (expiring 03/16) does not work at all, so maybe it would be a good idea to give Armour a chance…?
Anna
PS. Some have successfully combined Naturethroid with Candex (cellulase) to break down the cellulose…maybe this would work with Armour as well? Naturethroid is not available where I live, my only options are Erfa and Armour.
Michelle G.
How wonderful it is to stumble upon this forum! Thank you everyone who has taken the time & effort to share their experiences because frankly, people NEED you to keep doing this!
I’ve just started taking ERFA 60mg for one month now after being on Synthroid for 20+ years! So far I’ve only experienced minimal improvement such as slightly better sleep plus my hair has stopped falling out by the handful, however no change in extremely low energy. Still waiting on my latest Labs to confirm what my body is already telling me: that I’m still very tired & not functioning near to even 50% of my normal.
ERFA was not my first choice however in Canada it seems to be the go to NDT. I personally would prefer to try WP Thyroid because of the lack of fillers, but have not been able to find a workaround for getting it to Canada so in the meantime I’ll continue to stay on the ERFA unless or until I my experience dictates I come off.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Michelle. Do know that one grain (60 mg) is just a starting dose, and we’re meant to raise from it every few weeks by 1/2 grain or so. We then do labs somewhere in the 2 grain area to see our progress. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 But at the same time, many have found Erfa to be changed this year in a negative way, so who knows if you got a batch like that or not. Raising should hopefully give a clue.
Michelle G.
Right, thank you for that info Janie! My labs should be in any day them my ND’s intention is to raise my dose an additional 30mg then retest in 6 weeks, however, after checking out that link you provided I see that I need to alter the dose more rapidly. Also, I’m going to pay closer attention to my symptoms based on the experiences others are writing about here.
Ruth
Hi Michelle, if you are noticing even a minimal improvement, it means that it’s working for you. Normaly, we have to wait 6 weeks to have the maximum of eficiency with Thyroid. Wait 1 or 2 more weeks and (as Janie said) see with your dr if you can increase the dosage a bit… Hope it will be okay for you
Michelle G.
Thanks so much Ruth! It’s been a trip, as everyone here can attest to…although, we are so lucky to have this outlet of expression & amazing info!
I’m now bumped up to 90 mg & feeling a bit better but a long way to go I’d say. Still waiting for those Labs to come in but frankly I already know that I’m not optimal yet.
Beth
So happy to see this thread is still active! I actually complained to Dr. Knafo many months ago. I received my suspicious Erfa LAST YEAR in July. My bottle came from a Canadian pharmacy since Erfa told me they did not have my dosage available (beginning of the end perhaps?). After completing about 80 days of medication, I had a gut feeling something was wrong with the product. Would you believe my bottle didn’t even have a lot number? I feel like Dr. Knafo is just a puppet – doesn’t mean harm, but he did not follow through in reprimanding the pharmacy that was distributing their unlotted product.
I am so glad to have accidentally stumbled upon this blog – now I know others are with me on this. Currently I am on a desiccated compound, but am not feeling good on it. I tried Accella and was not happy with that either. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
And just for the record, my thyroid issues are because of toxic mold poisoning. I wouldn’t be taking anything if I found a cure to get rid of it. Mold destroyed my life, but if my thyroid could get the right support, things would be a lot better.
John
Janie slightly off topic, I just discovered that Forest Laboratories Inc was purchased by Furiex Pharmaceuticals (Actavis?) on July 2, 2014 per USSEC Form 4. I wonder how this bodes for the future of Armour Thyroid? I do not know if this posting belongs here, but just an FYI.
Janie Bowthorpe
So far, all that buy-out is done is raise the price of Armour. So doesn’t look like anything foreboding will happen to Armour since they are all about $$$$,
John
Hi folks, I opened the package 5OO 30 mg to check lot#s and exp date (lot LF03508A EXP 02/2017) and I found that they are the exact same as your post from Lori T:
“Lori T
June 12, 2014
I just received a 500Ö30 bottle shipped from the UK, exp date:02/2017, lot # LF03508A and it seems to look like an old bottle. When I compared these new pills to my pharmacy ones ( came in a brown pharmacy bottle so no idea of date or lot) they looked exactly the same, not any shinier or spotted or indented. I am currently titrating up but am pretty sure my brown bottle pills are okay so hopefully the new ones are too. Strange that the exp date is 2017 but they look the same and what I have now and am not experiencing any side effects.
Could this mean there was a bad batch dated 2016 only?
Are all these pills made in Canada? My bottle says Montreal Quebec Canada.”
With this information, I will give them a try. My own experience with Armour is that after my morning dose upon awakening, by late morning and close to lunch I start to feel low energy. After chewing my mid day dose, I am re-energized. When I start taking the ERFA, I should notice right away if they are not working and will follow up with a report. My only issue has been with my supplier that would only offer a refund on a “resalable” return, which means had I found out after taking them that they were from an ineffective batch, I would have been our of luck per their return policy statement. But thanks to Jamie, her blog and all of you fellow patients I am able to make an informed decision to use the supply that I have been sent. Thank you all.
Anne
John there is one person on the FTPO Canada facebook page with that batch who is doing fine on it. I’ve read others with the same batch saying it’s no good, so it’ll be interesting to know what you think.
If it’s ok I’ll try to get some, it’s interesting that you can get it from England but here we have to get it from the US and check the batch numbers first – of course because no-one is buying it at the moment the pharmacy I use has a backlog of the known bad batches!
John
Thank you for the information, Anne. Here is my experience. I purchased the 500 count of 30 mg Erfa, partially due to cost vs Armour and for the ease of absorption via sublingual vs chewing. My experience the morning after the first day on Erfa was that my Basal Temperature dropped significantly. And for every day I was on Erfa. My usual dose taken late morning that eliminates the reduction in energy I feel at the end of my early morning dose was ineffective on Erfa. I finally could not take the lack of effectiveness, and I communicated with the supplier who says that I am only the second person out of 1000 that has made an issue about the Erfa. And they are in Northampton England. I am having continuing communication difficulties with the company now and so far they are refusing to accept the responsibility of even entertaining the possibility that the batch I was sent was bad. More details if needed, but essentially I will continue with Armour as long as they have been as effective as they have. I just need to work on more blood tests to help determine adrenal levels and iron so that I can effectively work on increasing my dose from the one grain a day I have been prescribed. This will involve increased communication and hopefully the successful education of my doctor with the help of Janie’s new book. Wish me luck. At least on 3 1/2 grain Armour a day I am keeping most of my hair, sanity and Basal temperatures above 97.6
Jen
Anything new to report, John? I ordered a bottle of ERFA with a 2017 expiration date because it seems to be 2016 only people are complaining of. I’ve gone through so many old posts on here and FB because nobody seems to want to talk about it anymore. I figure since I am familiar with ERFA and was optimized without a thyroid….. I’ll know within days if it’s a bad batch or not. Somehow I felt more comfortable ordering it again then trying a completely new brand and having to get used to how I react to a new brand of NDT.
Jen
Anne, I would think it’s too soon to tell if they’ve been going hypo for the last month before the 2017 batches became available. At this point with all the talk of the “bad batches” and people freaking out….naturally people are scared and expecting the worst..including me.
Lori T
John I am still doing fine on that batch 🙂 I hope you have the same luck.
Angie
John,, I took that same batch. I could take it for a day or two and then I would feel weak and shaky with no ability to deal with stress. Did not work for me either.
Angie
John
Janie, thank you so much for all that you do. I have learned so much from both your postings, blogs and your book. I know of no other patient advocate that has provided as much time, energy and information that empowers us with the ability to work toward better health instead of good lab results. I have received my package with my ERFA 500 count 1/2 grain dose of Thyroid. I have not opened it, and wonder if it would not be prudent to just return it unopened or gamble that it may be an unaffected batch. Any suggestions? It is postmarked from Northhampton England.
Janie Bowthorpe
John, it makes me feel so good to read that all the work I’ve put into this has empowered folks! I wanted NO ONE to go through what I did as long as I did. Knowledge is power! And that’s especially true when the knowledge is based on solid patient experiences, not “opinion”.
I can’t tell you what to do other than compare your batch number with what folks are saying in their comments. 🙂
John
I need your help. I ordered a 500 count ERFA 30 mg from a mail order house based in England before I read about your experiences posted on this site. I was intending to use them to supplement and/or replace my Armour prescription based upon their previous reputation, for the ability to use it sub-lingually and the cost for a 500 count supply was cheaper than what I am paying for Armour. After reading about the possibility that my order may be ineffective, I forwarded a link to this website to the supplier. So far, they have failed to stand behind the effectiveness of the Erfa and will only send me a replacement thyroid medication if I return the unopened bottle. My question is, should I try the Erfa to see if it is a good batch that would jeopardize a substitution, or should I just return it? At this time it is still in transit, and do not know batch numbers or expiration dates. I will follow up and post with the batch information when I receive the order, as well.
Dave
Hi Pete, I was just wondering whether you get your Erfa from Lloyds pharmacy (UK)? I had a break from Erfa because it stopped working, so went back onto Levothyroxine, which I am still on, and is like a living hell. I used to use armour, until they re-formulated it in 2009, although now I read that Armour is back to the old formulation. So, basically, I’m not sure whether to ask my GP to prescribe Erfa or Armour, both of which were purchased from Lloyds.
Pete
No, I live in Finland so we have to rely on one sole importer who then distributes Erfa Thyroid to the pharmacies (as far as I know). The importer in Finland actually just recently ran out of Erfa and we didn’t have any Thyroid left in the pharmacies for a few weeks. The bottle I just got is from the latest shipment which I guess would be one of the latest batches released. I’m keeping my fingers crossed they’ve really gone back to the “old” Erfa. 🙂
Marjaana
Hi Pete, also from Finland, I’ve just opened my Erfa, same as yours LF03833A/exp 05/2017. I did a “blind-test” with my friend, the smell is not so strong on these 05/2017 pills. Also they are much softer. I just took first of them on 20.9. so we’ll wait and see and hope…
Mirjam
Hi Marjaana! As I am also from Finland, I would really like to know how are you doing with those tablets with 05/2017!!
Marjaana
So far so good… But only 9 days since I started the new batch. I’m sceptic but somehow hopeful. I’m feeling better now, not so tired anymore! This batch is totally different compared
to my earlier batch. Not so bad smell and much softer. Just like 2013 autumn. So I truly hope Erfa works again. I have wasted 8 months now feeling bad or very bad, with some new symptoms too. So now, fingers crossed here. I will report…
Anne
Marjaana how are you doing with that batch now? Hoping you’re doing ok and we can all get some and get back to ‘normal’!
Marjaana
Hi Anne, I’m feeling good. I can’t believe it yet but now I have taking this batch since 20.9. and still I’m feeling alive! I’m going to take a bloodtest on monday 3.11. so waiting for it now…
My batch is LF03833A/exp 05/2017. Feeling positive at the moment, it’s great after shitty
8 months!
Lola
Dave.. I have heard that the Armour in the lower doses (30 mg, especially) seems to be a softer, sweeter pill, more easily absorbed than the higher dose pills. I don’t use Armour so can’t comment
from personal experience. Maybe get your doc to write your rx for a lower dosage (means taking more pills during the day but multi-dosing throughout the day is not a bad thing) but more pills?
For instance .. if you are supposed to take 2 grains per day (120 mg), you would take 4 – 30 mg pills per day instead of one pill.. Just get a month’s worth and see how you do on the lower dose pills?
JackieO
I wrote to Dr. Knafo and this is what our email conversation was like:
Dear Dr. Knafo,
I am writing to tell you what I’m sure you’ve heard from many people now. The last batch of Erfa that I had refilled is now not working for me.
I am having very bad hypo symptoms…hair loss, weight gain, constipation, air hunger, brain fog, headaches, anxiety, etc…Can you please tell me what has changed in your batches of Erfa? I can guarantee you that nothing else had changed in my diet, my life…nothing except a new batch of Thyroid. I am getting so very sick and need to get better sooner than later!
Thank you for your consideration,
Dear Mrs
I am sorry to hear you are not doing well on our medication. We did not change any ingredients or methods but we are currently investigating any case of lack of efficacy.
Would it be possible for me to give you a call in order to understand why this is happening to you ? I also need the batch number of the medication if you have it and I also need to know if you have any recent blood test done.
Regards,
So it looks like they are at least looking into it to see if something has changed…I hope. I will write again once he calls me.
fliss
ok thanks…is that the same as my TPO being over 1000? i am on iron tablets due to previous low iron…should i stop them? is this why my thyroid meds don’t seem to be working? what can i do about it? my TPO has been over 1000 since diagnosis 4 years ago, it never goes down… i just thought that was normal with hashimotos? does this affect adrenals too? am i on the wrong amount of Hc? sorry for all the questions
fliss
hi janie yes my ferritin is 126 and saturation last time was 32%. been doing DATS and up till a few weeks ago was stable every day at between 36.9 to 37 then last week it dropped and became a bit unstable at between 36.85 and 36,7…tis is when i tried the old bottle of ERFA, nothing else changed..i was hoping to reduce my HC and come off it as have been on it for almost 2 years but presume i shouldn’t do so until i have the thyroid meds stable again? my Vit D was 175 which is fine too and b12 and folate were actually slightly over range.
i was considering trying a different batch of ERFA with later exp dates..do you know of anyone doing better on later batches being produced now? batch no for 60mg ones is LF03832A exp may 2017 and 30mg ones LF03505A / LF03507A exp march 2017?
Janie Bowthorpe
A ferritin of 126 means you have inflammation.
Pete
I just received and opened a new bottle of Erfa Thyroid (Lot: LF03833A, Exp: 05/2017). The strong smell is gone and the tablets are softer again, just like they used to be. I have to wait and see how it works but this might be good news!
fliss
pete thats a similar lot no to the ones i have been told i can now get…please post if they work for you as if so i will get my pharmacist to order them for me..
Pete
After 3 weeks I can say that I do feel better now than I did in the past five months when I was using the previous, bad batch. I only hope they will continue to manufacture it like this in the future! I sent an email to Dr Knafo and told all this. He answered with a very short message and just told me to keep him updated (in how I’m doing). Previously he had always denied there was anything wrong with Erfa Thyroid. Was he just too busy to do it this time or have they finally realized how they’ve screwed up Erfa Thyroid?
Marjaana
Pete, I feel the same!!! We have the same batch. Greatgreatgreat!!!!
Jen
Thanks for the info Pete. Some of us are still reading this page!!
fliss
i am having more problems now on the old ERFA tablets that i found in my cupboard. i had my bloods tested and my free t4 and free t3 were right at the top, t4; 20.8 (12-22) and t3 6.4 (3.10-6.8) all my other vits and mins were fine near top of range so not lacking ferritin or anything else…am on 27.5 mg HC and although temps are lower now they are stable so cant be low cortisol…I’ve been exhausted and constant severe leg pains keeping me up at night and making me more exhausted, feeling really desperate now as i thought the old bottle would work.. i stopped NDT altogether for 2 days and the leg pains went away the started again yesterday and been up all night in pain. not sure if I’m exhausted and feeling nauseous due to lack of sleep of hypo now! my pharmacist cant seem to get hold of NP by acella which i really wanted to try as its sublingual like ERFA…any advice on whats going on with me and what other brand i could try that maybe could do sublingually? in the UK we seem to be only able to get armour, erfa or nature thyroid …so depressed as was doing so well on erfa until july…is it worth asking my pharmacist to get a different batch and trying that? has anyone found trying new batches with later exp dates are better and if so what dates? my early morning temps dropped to 36.5 now which is the lowest its been.any advice would be great. thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Fliss, is your iron around 110 and % saturation around 35%? (Or if using Canadian labs, serum iron around 25 and % Sat around .35) That’s important. Have you done your DATS while on 27.5 HC? That’s important as well.
Corry
I finally get my Dr to prescribed a NDT and this is what I get. After reading this I’m scared. I don’t want to go crazy with symptoms. Will I be fine because I never had the original erfa or that I am just off the synthetic thyroid? Suggestions please.
waveylines
Just thought I would update you all -I was so ill on Erfa thyroid after being well on it for three years that i had to go off sick. I only started to recover when I switched brands from Erfa to WP Thyroid.. I had loads of hypothyroid symptoms including a three stone weight gain. It has taken 2-3 months to feel much much better. I have lost half a stone without trying -principally because I can do normal levels of activity now rather then crashing for several days everytime I did a bit of housework! I am hoping to be able to start walking again and ti rebuild all the lost muscle and fitness.
I switched to WP Thyroid…..
Am so grateful to this site -because I could not understand what was going on until I read about it here. Thank you Thank you Thank you……
An endocrinologist has checked me thoroughly out -there is nothing wrong with me bar from suffering with hypothyroidism. The comment this Endocrinologist made was that Erfa had not been successful with the patients that had been put on it -not a brand that the endocrinologist recommends. I am lucky that my Gp has allowed me to switch to WP on the NHS…..
Still feel angry that I became so ill through effectively poor medication -it was all so unnecessary. Shame on the company for not facing up fair and square to THEIR problem -leaving patients to suffer instead!!. We can only vote with our feet….
I hadn’t looked at this webpage for a few weeks but I note that the problems is not going away. So Dr Knafo when are you and Erfa going to get your head out of the sand?!!!
Angela
Thank you Waveylines. I have been reading your comments, following along and it is great to hear that things are improving for you which proves to me (I’ve been affected but not to the extreme you were) that it is not in my head! Although you were not even able to exercise, I still push myself (where before I would walk as fast as I could 45- 50 minutes most days and couldn’t wait to get home and walk each night) to get the dog out on her walk each day and one symptom I have is very very poor stamina. A slight grade uphill just walking causes my throat to ache like I ran a marathon. We have no other options here in Canada unless we go back to synthetic which for now, I won’t.
Addressing the group.
Maybe it’s time we find out how to make other options available to us here in Canada like WP thyroid. How do we do that?
Anne
Corry what country are you in? If Canada you may find your ERFA is ok because many people there still seem to get on with it. You could ask for the batch number and expiry date then check here to see if anyone has already mentioned it, then you could try it to see how you do on it. The bad batch I have is not from the new factory but the old one in Belgium and I was told nothing is wrong with it, I’d been fine on ERFA for some years but this batch gave me immediate stomach upsets and dizziness, if this happens to you just don’t take any more! Other people are taking the tablets made at the new factory and some are fine but some are gradually getting a return of their hypo symptoms.
JackieO
I am in Canada and I just got a new refill of bad Erfa…I got them about a month ago and I’ve been feeling worse every day since starting them.
J
Hey fellows, has anyone of you managed to get refunded?
I’m now on WP Thyroid for some months, feeling awesome, but I spent more than 100 Euro on a huge bottle of broken Erfa that gave me nothing but horrible symptoms. Would be nice to finally get that money back, at least a part of it.
Best of health to you all, keep hanging in!
Anne
I know of one person on the Thyroid UK forum who got a partial refund from an overseas pharmacy, but the same pharmacy has so far refused to refund me. I have a bottle of 500 x 125mg ERFA, more than a year’s supply and cost about £140, I took just three of them and was ill with each – immediate stomach upset, dizziness, light-headedness, so won’t take any more. If only ERFA would admit something we could get a refund I think.
It’s good to know WP Thyroid suits you, are you in the US? I’ve heard from two people that WP Thyroid is very sensitive to heat and so am unsure whether to have it mailed to England because of this. I can’t decide between WP and NP by Acella.
J
Hello Anne, thank you for your reply! What you experienced pretty much sounds like what was happening to me. My pharmacy also refused to refund me, since there is no official statement about a faulty charge.
I’m living in Germany. So far I ordered WP-Thyroid twice and it worked well.
Anne
J it’s really good to know your WP was ok after being sent to Germany, I’d love to know where you got it from because I know where one person got theirs from and it was heat damaged, so I don’t want to buy from that place! Are you able to tell me where you bought it? I know it’s not good to give sources publicly so am not sure how you can let me know. I’m currently trying Thyroid-S but think it’s making me feel jittery and my muscles hurt too much, so want to try something else.
JackieO
I would love to try to get some WP-Thyroid as well… where did you get it from? You can contact me at jackie_oh1@hotmail.com.
J
Why is it not good to give sources publicly? I’m starting to be a bit annoyed by all the information masking on forums. I’m all for open information exchange. The more options we know of, the less they can do with us what they want, the more progress for everyone. Why would I not share what worked for me, you asked for it, I answer.
I ordered my WP via Metropolitan Pharmacy München (Germany), 1 grain 100ea for 38,85€. But I do not know if they ship inside the EU. Is this the source from which a package of WP was damaged? I hope not, I really don’t want to reexperience what happened with my last bottle of Erfa.
And after all I hope that I will not have to take those damn pills forever. I’m now living superclean and I’m going to heavily detox for the next years, hopefully my glands will restart working properly at some point.
Edit: What is that avatar doing there and why can’t I request deletion? 🙁
Janie Bowthorpe
J, there’s nothing the FDA and similar organizations want to do more than shut down websites where NDT is sold without a prescription. i.e those are the “sources” people are referring to, not places where a prescription is required. Those organizations like the FDA are in the hands of the pharmaceuticals, not in your hands. We’ve already seen the FDA have a hand in shutting down many places. So…thyroid patients who depend on these sources want them kept behind the scenes, not on a public blog like this.
J
Oh, I was not aware such sources exist. Thank you for explaining, and also for revoming the picture.
Also thank you for all your work and being so engaged! It’s so important to give people the possibility to inform and help themselves when noone else would!:)
Anne
J thank you for telling me where you got your ERFA from. I’m not sure if they’ll mail to me but I don’t see why they shouldn’t and the advantage would be that Customs wouldn’t examine them! Do they want a prescription or can you buy without one? I shall give them a try.
The ones which were heat damaged had come from a pharmacy in California and the purchaser thought they’d been damaged in transit due to extreme weather temperatures there, so yours should be fine.
The only reason I didn’t know if you would be able to tell me your source is because I know some blogs and sites don’t allow it in case anyone takes note and closes down the pharmacy. I’ve seen it happen once here in England which was very annoying.
Thanks again!
Nick
It’s not encouraging that we haven’t seen more positive comments about the latest batches of ERFA!
Anne
Nick I’ve noticed that on the STTM Canada Facebook page most people in Eastern Canada are still doing ok on ERFA, whereas a lot of people on the STTM International Facebook page, so mainly USA, have switched to other brands. I can’t understand how it is so regionalised unless certain batches are earmarked for export.
Are you doing ok on Thyroid-S? I’ve been taking it for 2.5 months now and can’t decide about it. I don’t feel as calm as I used to but that could be the worry about it and what to do next, also my muscles are very painful and leg muscles quite shaky, which is new to me. That too could be a co-incidence though.
Nick
Anne, I’m still recovering from a nasty throat infection and I just feel like sleeping most of the day anyway. So I still can’t make a valid assessment of the Thyroid-S.
I do feel slightly ‘on edge’ but is that the Thyroid-S or the infection?
Anne
Sorry to hear about the throat infection Nick and hope it goes soon. Your description of being slightly ‘on edge’ is how I feel, not all the time but it’s in the background a lot of the time. I don’t know what to think about the Thyroid-S and may have to order a blood test as I’m not due one for a couple of months, or just get something else and try that. I have an NHS endo and a private doctor, and both say I never needed thyroid meds, it’s so annoying…
Nick
The throat infection is improving slowly, and I’ve now nearly finished the month’s supply of Thyroid-S. I have to say that it hasn’t improved my health so unless another factor is involved, I won’t be buying any more.
I have an appointment with the my endo next week when I will ask him why he hasn’t come back to me in the five months since I originally informed him that there was a problem with the ERFA that he prescribes for me.
Ellen
So grateful for this page and to find out about NP thyroid by Acella. After not doing well on the reformulated erfa and naturethroid, am doing as well on Np thyroid by Acella as the old erfa and old armour. Thanks for ideas on what to try after erfa reformulation.
Chris
All you Hashimoto sufferers… There will be a FREE ‘webinar’ called The Hashimoto’s Institute, 9/15/2014 to 9/22/2014. I expect it to be along the same lines as The Thyroid Summit I mentioned a few weeks ago. If you go to the above URL, you can view titles from the entire week’s offerings. If it is indeed the same format, the entire program will probably be offered for an introductory price right at the beginning, then the cost will escalate. I bought access after the second day of TTS. Though costing twenty dollars more by then, I still feel the investment was well worth it. It’s good to be able to hear the free programs, but it’s also nice having permanent access to them. Several TTS programs I have accessed over and over.
At the bottom of the web page, the offerings for each day are outlined. Each day, access to those topics are available for 24 hours. In the free format, they can only be listened to once. During free access, they can be paused, but it is a little obscure process.
Chris
This is a follow up to the free “Hashimoto’s Institute” I posted about a couple days ago. Yesterday, I devoted a few hours to downloading and listening to the bonus offerings made available for signing up. So far, I’m not enthralled. Instead of the way The Thyroid Summit (TTS) was organized around interviews; these initial recordings are more like lectures, and at times, rather tedious. In one, the doctor seems to be multi-tasking. Judging by the background noises, it sounds like he might be cooking something up in the kitchen, and occasionally turns away from the microphone. Here and there, the recording is also punctuated by loud claps of thunder, a dog barking, and kids intruding in the makeshift studio.
Although some interesting points are made, in my estimation, too much attention is paid to TSH. He also critiques some of the ideas put forth in TTS; ideas with which I resonate, that run counter to the way main stream medicine has ineffectively addressed my own experiences around hypothyroidism.
Maybe the actual “Institute” will improve. I haven’t given up on it entirely, but I am less excited. Each day’s recordings will be made available for 48 hours, instead of TTS’s 24. And so far, no indication of a sales pitch. However, that no doubt will come.
fliss
ok thanks Janie
fliss
quick question related to my other post….the old bottle of ERFA i found and am going to use has no use by date on it…it just says it was prescribed in june 2012 so its 2 years old…will it still work or does anyone know how long shelf life ERFA has? am in the UK and don’t get ERFA in ERFA bottles just brown ones from pharmacy so no way of telling if out of date…even if they are would they still work?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
They last for years and years! 🙂
Nick
Hi fliss, I am also in the UK, and lucky enough to have my ERFA prescribed for me. Like you I started getting all the hypo symptoms back again earlier this year. I am still trying to get an alternative off the endo who prescribes the ERFA for me.
My EFRA comes through Lloyds pharmacy and always has a batch number and expiry date on it.
I did get some Thyroid-S but have had a bad throat infection since it arrived so can’t offer a valid assessment of it yet.
waveylines
Hi Nick,
Lloyd s Pharmacy are applying for licence to stock WP Thyroid -they said it would take about two months for this process -about a month has gone by so am hopeful they will be able to order it in by end of October……hopefully your endo will switch the brand for you soon…..fingers crossed
Susan
I have questions. I am totally new to this concept and thought and such. I was diagnosed several times and by several doctors with fibromylgia and refused to accept it cause of the total body and joint aches and pains daily. I had just accepted that it was arthritis like the rest of my family had. I am anemic which I was told was caused from my bariatric surgery and years ago was put on thyroid meds just cause doctor said it might help my weight problems. My mother had a thyroid goiter back in 1964 removed that weighed 9 pds so I know it in the genes. I have had thyroid tests run over the years all to come back normal. I now suffer daily of body aches and pains and my hips, knees, shoulders, wrists, and feet hurt so badly I can hardly walk. I am very much a advacate for holistic healing and have put off going to the doctor cause I did have the hip and knee xrayed back 6 months ago only for them to tell me it was arthritis and they want to give me injections. I guess my question here is if I get these meds you all talk about and that isnt the problem will it hurt me? Just wasnt wanting to go back to another doctor to made feel stupid and for them to make lots of money off me for nothing.
Sandra
Hi Susan,
It will well be worth the investment to buy Janie’s books and read all you can. You may very well need thyroid medication and if you do then possibly your aches and pains could disappear as mine did. I thought I was getting arthritis too but wasn’t as bad as you sound. Within a week of switching from sythetic hormone to dessicated mine joints stopped aching and pinching.
Best of luck!
fliss
thanks for this..yes i just compared the ones i have and they are exactly as you describe. i don’t have batch numbers as here in the uk the pharmacist dispenses them in brown bottles not in ERFA bottles. i just know i was fine until i started new bottle in july. luckily i have now found about 100 old ERFA in my cupboard so am back on them until i can change to NP or another brand or until this is resolved.
thanks for all your help and for alerting us to this problem as i didn’t know what was wrong with me until i saw this.
fliss
fliss
i found an old bottle of ERFA and have noticed 2 things: old ones definitely smell stronger than new and old ones are harder to dissolve and need breaking up a bit…anyone noticed this? what are the other differences between the two and does anyone know why my morning temps are still ok around 36.7 but i feel so lousy?
thanks
Janie Bowthorpe
Fliss, there are others who notice that certain parameters “look” fine yet they feel lousy on Erfa now as compared to pre-2014 batches. And no one knows what’s going on, and Erfa appears to be refusing to look beyond their supposed lab evaluation of the T4 and T3 content in the tablets. I personally lose respect for companies who take this head-in-the-sand approach.
Lola
Fliss.. If you look up at the top of this page, there is a picture shown of the ‘new’ and the old Erfa. The ‘new’ Erfa is just a tad darker than the old, the new is shinier
and the letters are more deeply embossed into the pill. Those are the main physical differences. Also if you ck your bottles (old and new), the new seem to have
longer lot numbers. But that may not be a good way of judging since reactions/reports are mixed between old lot numbers and new lot numbers from users.
Anna Östberg
Hi
First of all, LOVE this page. The info here saved me. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been on ERFA Thyroid for almost 5 yrs now, getting my life back after 9 years on Levaxin. Took me almost two years to convince my doc to let me change, and about a year to get “normal” again. And I started to build up a life again. Feeling happy and safe. But earlier this year the pills suddenly looked a bit different, tasted different and had a different texture. After a few months I started getting all kinds of hypo symptoms back. Of course I started to think I’d done something wrong, you know, the old blame myself/shape up game. Finally I went here to see if I’d missed some vitamins, minerals or something. And I find this. So horrible, so scary on so any levels. And the response from ERFA! Outrage.
I wonder if anyone knows if something good has happened? Or if they are sticking to their story that nothing is wrong?
Best regards
Anna
Janie Bowthorpe
Anna, they appear to be denying that anything is wrong still. Sad.
Anna Östberg
Janie, thank you. Sad, scary as well as a really stupid behavior on their part, surprisingly stupid. They will loose business and have a tainted brand, things that cost a LOT of time and money to rebuild. The persons I know also on Erfa and myself have decided to stop using them. And I guess we are not alone, the word is spreading.
Again, thanks for the fantastic STTM and all the time you’ve put into it. If ever in Sweden, drinks/dinner/coffee are on me!
Anna
Janie Bowthorpe
I agree, Anna. I always respect a company more if they admit there’s a problem and work to fix it than I do one that completely denies a obvious problem.
And as far as being in Sweden, if that ever happens, I’m lookin’ you up. 🙂
Lola
fliss.. You should be okay on the NP thyroid. This is the brand from Acella? right? I would take only
2.5 or 3 grains of the NP at first since some folks say the NP is so easily absorbed compared to some of the
others and then work back up to your 3 – 3.5 grains. You should be able to tell by your relief of symptoms
if it is working well for you. I have switched between NP – Acella, WP and Naturethroid (RLC Labs) and had
no problem, even using the same dose.
fliss
Thanks Lola thats helpful.. do you know why my temp is still ok but i am so so exhausted with constant aching legs since starting new ERFA?
I am one of the lucky ones who gets NDT prescribed by my dr as many in the Uk don’t..so am waiting for NP by acella to arrive , could take a few weeks…if that brand doesn’t work for me are there any others that are done sublingually or is this the only other one apart from ERFA? how did you do on WP and nature thyroid? have you tried armour?
Lola
I was on Synthroid when I was first dx way, way back in the mid-nineties. All my blood work looked fine but… I had profound exhaustion, depression, severe body
aches… you know the drill. I was dumb back then about NDT but researched and found out about natural thyroid. My doc was a jewel and agreed to rx the NDT.
I took the old Armour and did fantastic on it. Then the Armour fiasco and I changed to Erfa and did wonderfully on that also. Now the problem with Erfa (the ‘new’
Erfa makes me lightheaded and dizzy) and I have had to experiment with various NDT brands.
I have a theory and it could be all wrong but… they say it takes a few weeks for the t4 to build up in your system whereas the t3 is felt immediately. Maybe the t4
from the old/new Erfa is still in your system but the symptoms from low t3 are showing up ‘immediately’? In other words you have enough t4 or are getting enough
t4 to keep your temp up but the other symptoms of hypo are making themselves felt with a vengeance? Maybe?
I use all the NDTs sublinguially. In the past few months, I have used Naturthroid by RLC Labs, WP Thyroid by RLC Labs and NP Thyroid by Acella. I must admit, I
loved the Acella product. It tastes more like the old Armour (sweet) and my body ‘sings’ on it. You know what I mean. The WP works well but the Naturethroid doesn’t
seem to cut it for my body. I didn’t change my dosage with any of these. If I were changing from the ‘new’ Armour to one of these others, I would lower my dosage since
Armour isn’t absorbed as well as these other brands.
Just be patient. Your NP by Acella will be in shortly and hopefully, your hypo symptoms then will be a thing of the past. Be sure to keep us posted on how you do. Just remember
to use it sublingually like your Erfa and use a little less for the first week or two… like 2 grains or 2.5 grains?…. see how you do?
Lola
fliss.. I forgot one thing. If you try WP by RLC Labs or Naturethroid by RLC Labs, the dosages are a little different. On one or one and a half grain dosages, the
excess isn’t enough to be significant but on larger doses you might tell a difference and might have to back off a smidgen.
Armour and Acella are… 30 mg – 1/2 Grain 60 mg – 1 Grain, etc
Naturethroid
and WP are ……… 32.5 mg- 1/2 Grain 65 mg – 1 Grain, etc
So, it is always a good idea to have your rx written for dessicated thyroid in Grains instead of mgs
if you are shopping for different brands.
fliss
i am based in the UK.. had old batch ErFA and was stable on 3.5 grains, had been doing really well on it for 4 years and very happy with it, then in july i had to start new bottle and have been feeling awful since, exhaustion aching legs… bizarrely my morning basal temp is ok at around 36.7. sometimes 36.8…why is this? I am waiting for blood tests next week…i have gone yp to 4 grains but it hasn’t helped..i am considering switching to NP thyroid… what dose should i start on? 3.5 grains? or do we need to start at the bottom again on 1/2 grain and move up slowly>?
Helene
Hi All
I went on to the website to see about hypothyroid and menopause and discovered this post on Erfa. I have been on it fo 2 yrs and doing great. I’m from Canada. I’m not sure if I’m feeling bad because I’m almost 50 and possibly hitting some perimenopause symptoms or if it’s the Erfa causing it. What I have not come across in these posts yet (maybe I’ve missed them) is anyone showing there blood work and any changes? I’m having trouble concentrating, orgetfull, sleep is disrupted and muscle are aching more then usual and I’ve had a couple hits of depression that have come and gone out of the blue. I can’t tell if it’s menopause symptoms or Erfa(I looked at pills and I don’t get bottle so they look to be shinier and mores specs and no smell like they used to) I’m going to see doc next week to get full blood work and hormones checked. But if anyone has had significant changes to T3,T4,TSH I’d be interested to know. Thank you, Helene
Janie Bowthorpe
Not everyone had big changes to their free T3 and free T4, even though they still felt awful on Erfa!!
Dianne
I agree with Janie. If, by chance, there were changes in one or more other ingredients, that wouldn’t affect labs, I don’t think. Unless that is if we want to personally rule out some other issue than FT3 and FT4. In fact, Dr. Knafo asked me to get blood work done, and I didn’t agree with that angle they were trying to take by saying something must be changed in our bloodwork. I know in my heart it’s something that is not related to the concentration of thyroid hormone, or with *my* iron (for example) levels, etc.
Jen
So, the only question I have that I haven’t seen an answer to yet…
What the hell do we use now that ERFA has failed us the way Armour did back in 2009?
Chris
Jen, I have moved on to Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid. It is treated like a supplement by the US FDA, so it doesn’t require a prescription. It may not be the total answer for you, but it might get you by for awhile in a pinch, until you get a hold of something else to try. Yesterday I stopped in at my favorite health food store; prepared to ask if they could possibly order some for me; but they already had it on their shelf! Granted, it cost more than the order I placed for the same thing from Washington State a couple weeks ago, but it totaled less than half of what a similar amount of Erfa would have been, considering the cost of CA postage to the US.
If only it was as pleasant to take sub-lingually as Erfa. It is gritty! Take it with water.
Chris
Jen, This Sept 6th post is actually a reply to yours from Sept 3rd. Sorry I didn’t see it right away, The way this format works sometimes makes things easy to miss. Some of this I have stated before, but I made a discovery a little while ago that I want to clear up. (Redux) Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid is treated as a supplement by the US – FDA, rather than a drug; thus no Rx is required. I bought my first bottle of 90 count, 130 mg tablets over the internet, before discovering that my local health food store in Redwood City, CA already had it on their shelf. A web search for: Nutri-Pak NZ bovine thyroid provides several mail order sources. When I ordered, I chose the one closest to me, for quickest delivery. But if you happen to have a health food store that deals in a variety of supplements, you might want to check them out. A “run of the mill” grocery store or even drug store, probably won’t stock this along with their vitamins and supplements.
With mention a few days ago about ‘counterfeit’ pharmaceuticals, the following discovery has me wondering… Both bottles that I have here state that they have been manufactured and packaged by the same provider in Wautoma, WI, (www.nutrapakonline.com), however, the labeling is slightly different. One is shiny, the other not. The two bottles are slightly different in style, threaded vs. snap cap. Besides containing bovine thyroid, the first bottle states other ingredients as: Vegetable Sterate, Starch, Di Calcium Phosphate. The second bottle states: Di Calcium Phosphate, Vegetable Sterate, Pharmaceutical Glaze, Piperine. It is also interesting to note that the first one suggests one tablet per day, “or as otherwise directed”. The second states: Two tablets daily, “or as otherwise directed”.
I have not been taking 1-1/2 – 130 mg tablets (roughly 3 gr.) long enough to compare them otherwise. Plus I plan to keep the second bottle sealed until I need it, so I won’t be able to scrutinize them further, for now; other than to ask some leading questions of Nutri-Pak, such as: can they account for the bottle and labeling differences? I have never deliberately smelled any thyroid preparations, so I can’t judge good or bad by that. If anything needs to be covered up by adding flavor, with either porcine or bovine, I’d go for BBQ. 😉
Jay
Question: Do Tablets with “no smell” work?
In years past, when you opened up your Armour thyroid bottle you looked for that distinctive smell to know you were getting the REAL thing. The “old” Erfa had this same smell.
Question:
If you have noticed that your Erfa tablets have less or no smell compared to your OLD Erfa tablets………..do your “no smell” tablets “work”?
Judith
I find funny to see that whatever we have, something is wrong…
Let me explain. At the begining of the Erfa replacing Armour new formulation story, everyone was upset of the Erfa pills’ smell. (Not strawberry neither mint ^^)
And now that the smell is not as bad, it has to be wrong to…
The main difference between synthetic and natural formulation is that natural is not necessarily 100% the same batch to batch. Maybe the pigs ate something different or Erfa did something in order to reduce the bad taste of the pills I don’t know…
I’m currently on 60mg thyroid (no batch number sorry my pharmacy took it off :s ) No strong smell compared to my previous bottle and I’m as find as I can be 😉
Note to Erfa :I like to take my medication sub-lingually so if you want to make a flavoured pill you would be my hero ^^
Dianne
I find the flavour of old ERFA to be just fine, and I’ve been taking it sublingually for 6 years. I vote ‘no’ on adding any flavour… no offense. Not that ERFA is actually listening to us – ha. I don’t even like my supplements to have ‘fruity’ flavour.
Dianne
Many of us have problems with any unnecessary added ingredients, also. Keep it simple, is my motto.
Margaret Del Castillo
I was treated with radioactive iodine in 1983 for Graves disease and was on Synthroid I convinced my doctor to start me on Erfa thyroid in March 2014. He decided 125mg was the dose over a period of 8 weeks I became hyperthyroid. It was horrible, I got very upset and told the doctor I won’t take anything until he orders me a thyroid uptake test I took nothing for the next 8 weeks and felt a lot better. June 18 I had the thyroid uptake test, results were 4 hour uptake within normal range of 11% normal is 4-15
I was then put on 60 mg of Erfa. every day about 2 hours after taking the pills I became completely exhausted. I cut it down to 1 1/2 pills and still didn’t feel much better, I am very depressed, thinking again about just giving up and taking nothing but I cannot find out if I would die without anything. So, I’m back on 2 pills My last test results August 15 were TSH 3.8300 , T4 9, T3 7 MD said reading is ok
I’m very disappointed to find out the Erfa is not working I was on Synthroid for over 20 years and had many side effects. It took me a long time to find a doctor that would prescribe it. I really don’t know what to do anymore. The doctor is an endocrinologist but it’s my opinion he knows nothing about the thyroid, and only goes by test results
Janie Bowthorpe
Margaret, this is why we, as patients, learned the hard way to start on only 60/65 mg, and raise by 1/2 grain every two weeks or so, to find the right dose…not start on higher doses. But…with Erfa being a mess right now, and the company denying what patients say is going on, it’s hard to know if you will get a good batch or a bad one. But you will also need to make sure that your “hyper” wasn’t caused by having inadequate levels of iron and cortisol–both which need to be optimal. Learn this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned A nd hang in there. This is only a bump in the road. Many Canadians have been switching to other NDT products.
Chris
Margaret, what you described is exactly what Pharmacist Rudy Dragone was talking about in his pool table analogy. How the body “up-regulates” and “down-regulates” the number of receptor sites; and how the differing number of sites respond to too changes made in the amount of thyroid hormone. Dragone says he gives talks to young doctors so they will better understand how thyroid hormone acts and interacts; to which they have been reported to respond: “Why don’t they teach this like that, in med school???”
Just as you said about your doctor, he “only goes by test results”. That’s because he is doing what doctors have been taught to do. But here is a test you can monitor yourself: take your temperature, and make a chart. First thing in the morning, find your basal temp; then average a few more readings during the day. Off the top of my head, Dr. Dennis Wilson (Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome) suggests an oral basal temp below 97.8 F. (36.56 C.), indicates a slow metabolism. Above 98.6 F. (37. C.) indicates a fast, or hyper metabolism. The rest of the readings during the day should average out to be around 98.6 F. (37. C.).
It is not completely clear what size tablet you are talking about. You say: “I was then put on 60 mg of Erfa. every day about 2 hours after taking the pills I became completely exhausted. I cut it down to 1 1/2 pills and still didn’t feel much better”. One and one half pills of what size? I How much Erfa did your doctor start you on? Did he start you out with a low dose and gradually increase it until you reached 125 mg? Hopefully he didn’t start you on the full amount all at once.
Determining the right amount of NDT for you is going to take time. Even though you may eventually end up taking the amount your doctor suggested, you are going to have to get there gradually, as your body adjusts to changing amounts, and shuts down excess receptor sites. Until you arrive at that dose, it’s probably not going to be fun. Of course, it would help if present results of Erfa were consistent. However, it might be a tough sell to get your doctor to prescribe something different now, since this first attempt at NDT hasn’t gone smoothly.
During all those weeks of too much; then nothing; then again apparently too much; you have been sending your body mixed messages.
Think of driving a car… if you turn the wheel too sharply and too quickly, you can over steer, and loose control. You have to turn the wheel just the right amount, in the right direction, and at the right time, while applying just the right touch on the accelerator, to keep safely under control.
Teresa
Margeret…Don’t loose hope..My gland was burnt out as well with radioactive material, I was only 25…Did the synthroid thing for 20 years..Switched to Armour two years ago didn’t know then about the change in the Armour..However I researched a product called Pure Thyro made from New Zealand animal stock I take two a day with the reformulated Armour and another product called Zeno-x which contains Iodine from food sources. A great company established by Dr Bob Marshal…I was on 90 mg of Armour which is equivalint to 150 mg of Synthroid…Went to the Dr. for lab results I was very Hyperthyroid. She had to decrease the dose to 60mg…Went back in 6 weeks guess what same thing now Im on 30mg..What a miracle….which means that Pure Tyro along with the Iodine and Armour has done it’s Job…I live in NYC I used to drag up and down the subways ..Now its a Breeze…Praise God….
Tammy
I still have enough of the old Erfa to last at least 6 months since I order 500 ct bottles. I decided to go ahead & try NP Thyroid by Acella. I did not want to wait & run into the problems I did when I was taking Armour when they reformulated. My levels were all out of whack & I’m not letting that happen again. I have been taking it for a couple of weeks now & so far doing ok. I like I can do it sublingually. With my Ins. It’s now a better price at $20 for a 3 month supply. I was paying $80 for 500 tablets of Erfa which has gone up to $175. A friend told me to order the Thyroid S but it seems to have a lot of unnecessary ingredients in it. I doubt I will switch back to Erfa if they ever fix the problem as long as I’m doing ok on NP Thyroid by Acella. Thanks to this site I was able to find an alternative.
Chris
Tammy,
Glad that NP Thyroid by Acella is working for you. So far, Nutri-Pak bovine appears to be working for me, and for now, I plan to stay with it. It too is a more thrifty product than Erfa. 500 ct bottles were never an option on Erfa’s US web page. My last invoice from 9/9/2013 lists 3 – 100 ct bottles of 60 mg @ $41. USD each, for a total of $123. PLUS around $36. for shipping and handling. A roughly similar amount of Nutri-Pak bovine figures out to be about half, mg for mg.
Another insight from Compounding Pharmacist Rudy Dragone described the FDA standards for acceptable levels of T4 and T3 in desiccated thyroid glands. Given the standard of: 39 mcg of T4, and 9 mcg T3 per grain of desiccated thyroid; the FDA allows a deviation of up to 9 mcg, UP or DOWN of either T4 or T3. That means there can be anywhere from 18 to zero mcg of T3; and 30 to 48 mcg of T4 per grain, and STILL BE ACCEPTABLE to the FDA. Armour is said to go by that standard. But according to RLC Labs, processors of Naturethroid and Westhroid, anything above 2 mcg deviation, up or down, and they reject it. I have no idea what acceptable tolerances would be to Erfa. If what they were using came from the US, and not just “North America” as stated in that interview of Dr. Knafo, then it ought to have been assayed as to content by the FDA.
With so many hypothyroid patients, it’s not hard to imagine that there might also be hypothyroid pigs. After all, they are close to our own DNA, and they too are subject to many of the same stresses in their short lives; GMOs; declining minerals in the soil where their food is grown; pollution; antibiotics; plus overcrowding from factory farming… I am still leaning towards a change in whatever they have been fed, at least contributing to the problem.
Chris
As promised:
Registered Pharmacist Rudy Dragone by Dr. David Brownstein M.D., offers an interesting pool table analogy to describe the interaction of thyroid hormone on the body. I have done my best to transcribe the conversation between the doctor and pharmacist, and where necessary, to paraphrase.
Picture a (North American) pool table. There are six pockets in the table, and for this illustration, sixteen balls (including the cue ball). Imagine the pockets as thyroid receptor sites, and the balls as thyroid hormone. Throw all sixteen balls across the table, and one or two will sink, and the body’s biological needs are met. As thyroid levels decline, it’s like taking away a couple of balls, but the body compensates by “up-regulating”. Imagine two more balls are taken away, then two more, until there are only half as many balls remaining. Meanwhile, in response to the declining levels of thyroid hormone, the body has compensated by “up-regulating” the number of receptor sites. “By the time you have eight balls on the table, the body has compensated by putting twelve pockets on the table. You have half the number of balls, but twice the number of pockets, so if you through all eight balls on the table, one or two of them will sink, and the biological function continues. The problem comes when you are down to two balls on the table, but now there are thirty pockets. This is when the person presents to the doctor, and what they see is a hypothyroid patient.
Dragone further explains that during the shortage; deprived of Armour, patients were meanwhile “up regulating”. Their bodies were in need of more, but they were getting none.
When Armour returned to the market; though they now needed an even larger dose than what was previously sufficient; to start with that much, it would be like throwing all sixteen balls on the table at once. But now, with 30 pockets instead of six, maybe as many as ten balls would sink, and you suddenly have a patient with palpitations, and all the problems associated with thyrotoxicosis. It takes time for the body to adjust to gradually increasing doses, by “down-regulating”, or closing off the number of receptor sites.
I have been in touch with Rudy Dragone R.Ph. by email, hoping to encourage him to get together with the artist who produced the “chalk-talk” drawings for Bill Sardi. The concept could make a great dynamic illustration of how the body interacts with thyroid hormone.
Jen
Where do you get that one without an RX?
Thyroid – S is terrible along with a terrible list of ingredients. I used it once after Armour back in 2009 and I was a mess.
Sandra
Hi everyone,
I started a new batch of pills a couple of days ago 30 mg and when I ordered them the week prior was told over the phone what batch/lot they were but when I called again today to actually write it down (which I should have before) they told me those pills were all gone and they have since reordered a new batch/lot and don’t keep records of previous ones dispensed.
The very next day after starting them I immediately felt better, mood, energy etc and I have my fingers and toes crossed that it continues.
These new pills also have next to know scent to them as the previous ones always did so I was very reluctant they would be better which does prove this is not a psychosematic (sp) thing.
Nick
Sandra, isn’t there a batch number and date on the bottle?
Sandra
Hi Nick,
Sorry I didn’t see this question of yours. My presciption is filled into a different bottle that the pharmacy gives me so I never see the bottle that it comes in from Erfa.
Chris
Nick; Here’s a little something gleaned from “The Thyroid Summit”: When hypothyroidism is adequately treated, BP and cholesterol numbers decline; not because of manipulation of numbers with drugs, but because an underlying deficiency has been corrected.
Been working on paraphrasing something else gleaned from the Thyroid Summit. It’s complicated; involves a pool table analogy; but I think that it might help explain some of the problems we have been having. Hope to have it done by tomorrow.
BTW Nick, hope that your throat is feeling better.
Nick
Thanks Chris. When I was called in to see the hypertension nurse, I told her about the thyroid problem, and to her credit, she agreed that it was most likely pushing up my blood pressure.
I was pleasantly surprised as most doctors today focus on one area, seemingly oblivious that all parts of the body are interconnected in some way.
The throat is a little better today thanks.
Nick
I got the results of my recent blood test last Friday. These were requested by the hypertension nurse rather than my endo.
What is really interesting is that despite me feeling really hypo for the last six months, TSH, T4 and T3 results were the same as they have been over the last few years when ERFA worked well for me.
However, it should also be noted that I had been taking 3 grains a day instead of 2, and that seemed to have made no difference to the blood test results.
Unfortunately I’ve gone down with a nasty throat infection, so am still not in a position to evaluate how well I am now doing on the Thyroid-S (started after the blood test).
Janie Bowthorpe
WOULD SOMEONE AGREE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE POSTS AND RECORD THE BATCH NUMBERS PLUS SYMPTOMS and put them in the Google Doc link I posted? There can also be symptoms posted even for those who didn’t know the batch number.
It’s also important to avoid posting symptoms for those who may just be experiencing the results of having low cortisol and/or low iron. We’ve got to separate those two issues the best we can i.e. a bad batch vs the results of having low cortisol/low iron.
Anyone willing to volunteer to do this?
Daivid Tomen
Hi everybody, thought I chime in. I was quite happy on the “old” erfa for a couple of years and couldn’t get it anymore. I switched to NP Thyroid made by Accela Labs in Georgia. It’s working as well for me as the old erfa (never did try the new and improved version) in the same amounts, and I take in sublingually.
Dianne
That’s good to know about NP Thyroid, Daivid. Thanks for telling us.
Janie Bowthorpe
TO EVERYONE: I have started a GOOGLE DOCUMENT to record BATCH/LOT NUMBERS plus your reactions. You can comment right on it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SpdSQ6EKhzMHSGGTTPd3FblzCBrAjD6FZnVYPzmTMIc/edit?usp=sharing
You either have to have a google page or gmail to comment.
NOTE THAT I GLANCED AT A FEW OF YOUR COMMENTS AND ADDED WHAT I SAW. But this is not everyone. So add accordingly.
Anne
Janie the link takes me to a page telling me to clear my cache, but nothing about Google docs or your page. How can I find it? I will sort the batches that have been reported on another site too.
Janie Bowthorpe
I was told it wasn’t working. Here it is again, just in case: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SpdSQ6EKhzMHSGGTTPd3FblzCBrAjD6FZnVYPzmTMIc/edit?usp=sharing Let me know.
Anne
No Janie I still can’t get to a document, the link takes me to a Google troubleshooting page. However I’ve had a lot of problems with Google recently anyway, so it may be that.
Anne
Also the list of comments under Mary Shomon’s January blog about the ERFA backorder, has now been removed. I was going to use that to get a few more batch numbers for you because a lot of people had complained there about the ‘new’ ERFA. I’ll take a look at some of the Facebook pages instead and see what I can find.
beano
So I posted back in June about doing poorly on ERFA. I am now on Amour thyroid- and heres my update
first- here was my initial post in June:
bean
June 18, 2014
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
hope this is information to anyone seeking it
———————-
update 8-2014
So- Ive come around 360 degrees. Armour back in 2009 I think, was the thing that got me switching all around since reformulating and doing bad. Then nature-throid changed, and so on until I took ERFA. So I changed back to Armour (thats what the pharmacy gave me and what my inexperienced in NT endo called in. I think Armour is doing better. I am DEFINITELY better than when taking ERFA !! I was a bit skeptical about going back on Armour since it sent me on this medical wild goose chase through hell and back- but thought i’d try it and if it didn’t work I could ask for something else. So far feel ok, Ive lost 4 pounds and shed waist fat for sure (on ERFA was STUCK in a weight gain pattern), overall thinner, more energy. I do get periods of panic attacks and skipped heart beats so I don’t like that, and its probably due to the Armour (hypo? Hyper ? ) . I’m going to stick with it and see how it treats me for now since its way better than Erfa. The price went up , oh well. And by the way- I asked for my LOT numbers on the Erfa- and they WOULD NOT give them to me! Ok bye for now.
Anna
Thanks, that sounds really reassuring! I have also been considering going back on Armour, after feeling hypo (confirmed by labs) on as much as 8 grains of Erfa…a practical question: do you swallow, crush or mix your Armour pills with honey or sugar?
beano
based on info on this site, I chew up and dissolve the Armour in mouth, rather than swallowing. There really is no taste
Sandra
Beano,
Thanks for your letting us all know how you are doing because there are those of us who are not able to get another product and as time moves on, you do start to forget how you once were when you were well, at least I do. I truly wished I’d kept a journal of each and every day of the good days so I could compare to now.
Chris
Sandra, when you said: ” I truly wished I’d kept a journal of each and every day of the good days so I could compare to now.”; you said a mouth full. If only we had documentation with which to compare, from when it was that we felt good, including test scores. But how many of us were thinking about such documentation in our prime, or even knew about the appropriate tests. An even bigger question, did our doctors know?!
On August 15th I began playing “Guinea Pig”, by taking Nutri-pak bovine Thyroid, starting with a similar amount (130mg) to what I had last taken of Erfa (120mg). Not knowing their relative strengths, I split the tablets in half, and divided the dose, morning & evening. After three days, I added another half. Yesterday, took a total of two tablets, and have noticed a slight budge in my basal temperatures; up from 97.2 to 97.4, 97.5, and now 97.7. Pulse rate has not changed, no nervousness, but maybe a little improved feeling of attention, yet calm. Could still use more energy though.
Apparently, this product is FDA approved as a supplement, and is not treated as a drug, so no Rx required. Why? I do not know. So far, I give it a “thumbs up”. Time will tell if it deserves two.
Anna
Interesting, thanks for posting! I’d be interested in hearing from people having tried both Nutri-Pak bovine thyroid and Thyrogold!
Angela
Hi Chris,
Not sure if you come back and read previous comments but unfortunately I don’t think we can get that in Canada :(.
Once again we are stuck with no options but to pray things go back. My quality of life at 51 has changed and it sucks and no, it’s not menopausal symptoms!
Pattycakes
Janie, is there some way that you could post a chart with columns for the info you need, then we could each go there & fill in the info we have?
Janie Bowthorpe
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO THROUGH ALL THESE COMMENTS AND WRITE DOWN LOT NUMBERS….and add comments about what happened to people on these batches. Also write down expiration dates and comments. WHO WILL DO THIS??
Angie
I’ll do it, Janie…but can’t get to it until the weekend..
Anna
I was on 8 grains of Erfa (4 x 125 mg daily) and both FTs came back low (FT4 1 (ref 0.7-1.7), FT3 2.8 (ref 1.8-3.8) 24 hours after latest dose. I then switched to a bottle of 60 mg pills (batch no LF03141A, exp 10/16) and my latest labs scream hyperthyroid: FT4 2.2, FT3 6.6, so both out of range. The only thing that has changed is the batch. Unfortunately, I don’t have the 125 mg bottle anymore, but both bottles were the new ones (pink/white and green/white respectively), and the pills look like the ones to the right in the photo. But, for some reason, the 60 mg pills work a lot better than the 125 mg ones…
Elizabeth Brideau
Hello. I’ve been on Erfa for a little over 6 months now. I’m taking 90mg Erfa, and 1/2 of a 75mcg Synthroid daily.
I’ve been reading the posts, but I can’t find where you are finding your lot numbers. Do I have to ask my Pharmacist for this info?
Thank you.
Pattycakes
I wonder if all these various pill makers do their own desiccation? Probably not.
If the desiccated gland used to make the pills is sourced from more than one supplier, perhaps there is some variation in the processing that is destroying the effectiveness of some of the product. This could account for the fact that some batches are good.
When baking at home, its SO easy to leave the cookies in the oven just a little too long….
I have an old bottle with a few unused pieces of good Erfa from Oct2013. It smells VERY different from the Feb2014 bottle that caused such awful side effects for me. Sorry no batch numbers on those, the pharmacy said they don’t keep records of batch numbers, which I find hard to believe.
Even though I had just received a new shipment of #800 Erfa, I decided not to take a chance. I chose to switch to WP for 2 reasons: low number of fillers, & my compounding pharmacist told me that RLC has tighter controls on the amounts of active ingredients.
It’s been just over 5 weeks now. So far I am still feeling much better than I did on that last batch of Erfa.
CNY
Hi -I read through the posts here about this issue with EFRA. While I appreciate how devastating this has been,
as I went through the reformulation with Armour (it didn’t work anymore for me either), alright already!
It’s settled — the stuff doesn’t work anymore. They aren’t going to fix it, just as Forest Labs didn’t.
Now Let’s move on and make a positive step forward to find out what does work.
Furthermore, here’s my suggestion for TRYING to stop this from ever happening again.
I’m hearing here thyroid S and WP are both possibilities, yes? Then maybe once we see what works best
we collectively get involved – almost like a union (or like a costco) – and communicate with the manufacturer
telling them we will be purchasing their product and want to be involved or informed with all changes having to do
with reformulation or manufacturing facilities, etc. Even better we say collectively we won’t continue to purchase their
product unless we are asked about any changes – I’m just throwing it out there. Basically, what we’d be doing is saying
we’ll bring you business, the same way the docs do. Moreover, we can write a letter almost like a petition and get count on STTM
followers, have Janie sign it representing us. As for ERFA, we can send a similar letter to them and say we will no longer be
purchasing or recommending your product– also giving them the numbers of people we are talking about. Who knows- maybe the dopes
reach out to us.
There’s strength in numbers…
Anne
I think this is a good idea in theory CNY, but am not convinced that the manufacturers really care about our opinion. It would be good though to have advance warning of any changes.
I do think it would be good to have somewhere for people to say how the different brands suited them and to compare them all. I’ve found it confusing to have to decide because of the differing comments about each brand – and just when I’d decided to try WP I was contacted by someone who had a batch of that which was damaged in transit. Best of all would be to pool brands and each try each one, that might lead to some sort of consensus but would be impractical to carry out.
As far as ERFA is concerned it seems that they only received a small number of complaints compared with their overall distribution, that the majority were not from Canada (or not the area of Canada where they are based) and that they weren’t concerned because of this. The worst scenario is that their customer base reduces, they can’t cover the cost of the new ‘facility’ so they stop making it altogether. I still don’t think they’d care about our opinion or how many of us this has affected, but it would give some satisfaction to send the letter you suggest!
Sandra
I’m curious and would love to hear from those of us who have been greatly affected, are your symptoms constant each and every day progessively getting worse or do you have days where you may be bit better but overall the decline increases every time you do have a worse day?
Sandra
Gina,
In a nutshell, the quality of our lives is once again being ruined. We have no choice but to try another product which I urge you to do before this goes on too long for you. The longer you wait, the longer it takes to reverse all that the hypo state does to ones health so perhaps read all the messages here and see which other dessicated thyroid product will be worth trying.
Good luck.
Gina
The brain fog is so bad I forgot to mention the exhaustion!! Dry itchy skin and my hair is also feeling like hay 😞
Gina
I have been taking the new ERFA pills for about 3 weeks. My hair has been falling out, my wrists hurt, I am very bloated and have terrible brain fog.
Batch #LF03727A
Exp 04/2017
Why would ERFA do this to so many patients?! I just don’t understand
Chris
Janie, I would appreciate your thoughts about these 24 hr. cortisol scores.
02:15 am – 4.1 ; 07:55 am – 6.1 ; 14:15 pm – 1.5 ; 20:59 pm – 0.8 Thank you.
The ‘chart’ that the lab’s computer generates appears to assume that everyone’s day begins, and cortisol peaks, around 6:00 am. Using that interpretation, my first three scores line up a little below the low-normal line. However, the fourth dot shown at 02:15 am, is way off the chart, showing about five times what a low-normal score would be for someone ‘normally’ awakening around 06:00 am. But, if the reference range curves were to be shifted to the left by about four hours (to better match my sleep/wake cycle), then my scores would appear to all line up near ‘high normal’ or maybe even at the ‘high’ line.
Talk about confusing! I’m not sure if I should be considering adaptogens for low cortisol, or magnolia bark for high cortisol. My doctor didn’t comment on this disparity, and was appeared focused on a different issue.
My Ferritin also runs high, for which I am planning to start donating blood (as advised by “Health Journalist” Bill Sardi. – Those interested in lowering their own potential for “rusting”, can check out this “Have A Heart Health Radio” archived internet radio program from 06/08/2014. Bill’s advice about ferritin starts a little after the 10:30 minute mark. http://billsardihealthandwealthshow.com/2014/06/ Admittedly, there are a couple products that the program pitches, but each first half hour, in general, is devoted to nutrition and debunking some of the missteps of so called “modern” medicine. )
Janie Bowthorpe
Chris, high ferritin is NOT a reason to give blood!!! High ferritin is from inflammation that needs treatment. It’s hemochromatosis that needs blood donations, and hemochromatosis makes all your iron labs high, not just ferritin. Also, you didn’t give ranges, so it’s hard to comment. But compare what we have learned here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values Your wakeup morning cortisol, which I’m assuming 7:55 is, should be at the tip top of the range, for example. I’m thinking yours is not. So that’s low cortisol i.e not hemachromatosis and blood donations.
Chris
Thank you, Janie, but 7:55 was an erroneous assumption. My first saliva was collected after awakening at 02:15 am.
Here again are the numbers, along with ZRT’s stated “reference ranges”:
02:15 am — 4.1 – r.r. 3.7 – 9.5 (First saliva collected after awakening)
07:55 am — 6.1 – r.r. 3.7 – 9.5 (The same r.r. is given; as both are registered by the lab as “Morning” scores)
14:15 pm — 1.5 – r.r. 0.6 – 1.9
20:50 pm — 0.8 – r.r. 0.4 – 1.0
Not everyone’s life runs on the same schedule.
Do different labs, running the same tests, actually get completely different numbers? I have heard said that labs typically throw out the top and bottom %5 of all scores, and the remaining 90% represents THEIR particular “reference range”… over the last X# of tests. But subject to change… over the next X# of tests.
Re: iron… Women loose their cardiovascular risk advantage over men, when they reach menopause and iron starts building up, instead of being lost each month. Think of blood donation as exerting a little influence over ‘Mother Nature’, and ‘Father Time’.
Janie Bowthorpe
If you wake up for your “morning wakeup” every morning around 2:15 am (i.e. you go to bed for the “evening” far earlier than the rest of us, or have a work schedule that means you have to wake up far earlier), that should be at the tip top of the range. i.e. 2:15 is your 8 am.
waveylines
A little update -i have been taking WP Thyroid for 6 weeks now and am feeling much much better -it has taken me ages to get over from taking Erfa as I ended up being so poorly and had to take over 5 weeks off work plus a month of holiday! Interestingly enough now I am stable on WP am noticing that i can take a much lower dose -a whole grain and more, less! Erfa was not working in my system and I did feel like i wasn’t taking anything but just going downhill -very scary. My endocrinologist felt the meds were not being absorbed into the cells because my blood tests were still in range (but lower then before) but i was showing signs and symptoms of classic hypothyroidism -it was felt Erfa was back-stacking in my blood. i can therefore only assume that something was preventing my body from absorbing it…..strange after being so well on it for over two years! -.hope you are listening Dr Knafo!
I still have a lot of weight to shift that I have put on in recent months but am no longer gaining and have lost a little bit – at least am now beginning to feel well enough to consider setting up a walking and low grade exercise programme.
The one thing i have noticed with WP is that storage is important -it needs to be kept in it’s bottles with the little sachet to keep it dry or it goes sticky…..so during the day I use one of the old bottles with the sachet still in it to transport my daytime dose. This works well…The rest i have stored in the fridge as we have just had a heatwave here in the UK….
Janie have you heard anything more from Dr Knafo?
Janie Bowthorpe
No, I haven’t heard any more than any of you have from Dr. Knafo. i.e. Erfa is stone-walling and refusing to admit that something has been seriously wrong with Erfa.
Nick
I’m now starting to feel a slight improvement after a few days on Thyroid-S.
Yesterday I received my blood test results (blood taken prior to starting on Thyroid-S, ie while taking ERFA) and the thyroid results were fine. So while I have been feeling terrible on ERFA, it does seem have been doing something as regards blood test results. I had the same experience when they changed Armour, my test results were fine but it obviously wasn’t working as regards making me well.
I hope that I’m wrong but I can’t help thinking that this situation with ERFA is all too like what happened with Armour after the FDA got involved with it.
Angela
Hi Nick,
I too have ordered Thyroid-S and am very hopeful now that I hear your news. Thank you for letting us all know how you are doing. Unfortunately when they ship to Canada, there is no way to track it and I am left guessing when it will arrive, anywhere from 10-25 business days!!!! So long to wait when one is not well.
In the meantime I have had to fill a new prescription of Erfa and it is not the same as my old batch and when I got home opened the bottle to see what it looked like and found there is absolutely no smell to the new pills. The old pills, about 15 of them have a strong smell but nothing for 350 new pills. How the heck can this be if there is “nothing different”?
Its all B.S.!!!
Anne
Nick it’s very interesting that your blood test results were the same as usual on your latest ERFA. This can only mean that the hormone content is the same but that something else in the tablets has caused some of us to react. I didn’t take mine for long enough to find out what would happen, the first three days of stomach issues were enough for me! I’ve also noticed on the FTPO Canada Facebook group that the majority of people in the Eastern part of Canada are still doing fine on ERFA, but not some of those in the Western part. On the FTPO International and Europe groups a lot of people in the US and Europe have had a problem. So it could also be some ingredient damaged in storage, by heat or some other damage during transit.
Dianne
Anne, I’m in Eastern Canada, and as you know, I didn’t do well (understatement!) on the new ERFA. I don’t know if we can find any clear pattern to this. I agree that it’s more likely a problem with ‘other’ ingredient(s) in the tablets. Like you, I had a severe and immediate reaction.
Angie
I have had problems on both the early 2014 batches AND the batch that some seemed to do well on, LFO3508A. I get twitchy, feel like nerve endings are raw, have palpitations and eventually feel week and shaky…Do not seem to absorb the WP hardly at all…not sure why…someone mentioned some WP batches being heat damaged…would like to know where I can find more info. I too have had “normal” labs on the early 2014 ERFA, but something else not right. ERFA/Knafo have not answered my questions reqarding other ingredients OR my requests to see the results of the supposed “investigation” they performed.. I agree that this a problem with a change in the other Ingredients…really no other assumption to make.
Tamara
I switched from ERFA back in the early Winter to WP thyroid, and immediately went hypo as my latest labs showed. I’m wondering if the issue with WP thyroid went back that far. I’m now on Thyroid-S, and was one of the “lucky” ones who got an order in for it before they ran out that should do me a while.
Someone above mentioned the GMO link. I actually thought of that myself a few days ago. Which country that makes NDT uses non-GMO feed? I’m going to look into this company myself in Colorado that is making NDT with non-GMO feed.
Is there any update on ERFA yet?
Chris
Tamara, Last Monday, I ordered a bottle of that New Zealend, non GMO certified, bovine (cow) sourced thyroid that I mentioned awhile back. In searching for the product name”Nutri-Pak”, I discovered four mail order sources in the US that sell it. They are located in: Kelso WA, Boulder CO, Wautoma WI, and Elmwood Park, IL. That last source is part of a chain called “Fruitful Yield Health Foods”, which lists at least ten “brick and mortar” stores in Illinois.
The Kelso, WA site from which I ordered, offers a basic shipping and handling rate of $4.99 (inside the US) via USPS, and advertises a 3 – 8 day delivery. (I received my shipment in 3 days!) http://nutripakonline.com/Contact-Info.html . Online tracking of the shipment was also available. The box in which it was sent could hold as many as 4 such bottles. Don’t know to what amount that would influence postage. Even if they charged $4.99 for each bottle, I think it would still compare favorably (costwise) to Erfa, mg for mg.
Since Friday, I have been slowly adjusting doses, and evaluating the effects. The tablets are only offered in 130 mg. So far, I have worked up to 1 1/2 tablets/day, in divided doses, and closely watching my temps and pulse rate. I am feeling a little better than I had been on 120 mg of Erfa, but there is still room for improvement.
The taste is not objectionable, however, the texture is terribly gritty. It does not lend itself to being taken sublingualy.
On one of the web sites (along with a surprising variety of “glandulars”), Nutri-Pak also offered thyroid capsules in either bovine or porcine.
Sarah
My problem is that I feel I can’t trust ERFA anymore. I felt as though my stomach was on fire. The whole of my insides seemed to burn. I tried raising but just got horrible headaches and looked and felt awful.
I’m sticking with WP thyroid for the tine being and raising slowly. I miss ERFA so much but just can’t trust it. At least with WP Thyroid I know it’s coming from a manufacturer who has never had their NDT’s recalled which makes me feel safe.
Annie
After years of lack of understanding about what was going on with me, I’ve just been diagnosed with hypothyroidism.
I need advices because as a matter of fact one of my friends has got hypothyroidism to and she’s having Erfa medication. It seems to work with her so I wanted to test this one to. But then I discovered you blog..
Is there any one here who is happy with Erfa?
It’s all new for me and I see so many bad comments while my friend is feeling so well with Erfa…
Thanks for your help
John
new here, just checking out the site. heres another thought… didnt see it mentioned anywhere. if some are having problems, others not, as well as some noting a changed pill look and others not…. i have read lately about counterfeit meds finding their way into legitimate pharmacies. the counterfeits often look remarkable similar to the real thing, identical packaging etc. they can be sugar pills or sometimes contain less active ingredient. if someone in the supply chain did a swap on a couple boxes somewhere this would also explain alot (including why ERFA testing came out ok).
might also be real interesting if only certain cities are involved. (which could also indicate heat damage etc)
Anne
John I have wondered about counterfeit ERFA but when I raised my concern with Dr Knafo and offered to send him some of my tablets for analysis I didn’t get an answer. I’m amazed that he hasn’t agreed to analyse the actual tablets people are complaining about, rather than the stocks they still have of the same batches.
John
i agree with you. to check out some of the “problem” pills would be good. also, to not do so could end up being a huge marketing faux pas for them.
it would do several things.1. it would demonstrate to their customers they are interested in resolving any problems rather than saving the money needed to investigate/fix them. 2. if turns out to be counterfeit, heat damage etc this would prove its not a manufacturing problem (and they didnt lie to us saying that its not) and the product is still a good one to use. 3. if never resolved, when all future potential customers read thru these internet posts researching ERFA, they’ll be left wondering…. when is the next time the rug is going to be pulled out from under me? why use a treatment if it may change and leave me with nothing?. 4. on the other hand, if they were to have 20 or 30 customers send in some old “good” pills and some new “problem” pills and have them checked…at least they could report this to everyone to show theyre not just sticking their heads into the sand.
on the other hand, it may be a real problem for the company if regulators find out, so they may just be trying to keep things quiet and hoping it all goes away.
i suspect the preference of everyone on this list would be if there was a temporary glitch to get it fixed because alot of folks seem to like this product.
Nick
I received my Thyroid-S this morning (absolutely excellent service) and will report back here when I have had sufficient time to assess it.
Has anybody tried taking it sublingually?
Anne
Nick I chew my Thyroid-S thoroughly then swallow whatever is left, because it has a hard coating supposed to keep it intact until the large intestine or something like that. I also take 2.5 grains so split one tablet and checked with others first that you could do this. Some people seem to swallow and some chew and then do sublingual. Please let me know if you think you need more or less than you took of ERFA to feel the same, thanks.
Nick
Thanks Anne, I’ll try sublingual.
It’s still only a few days so I am still assessing how I am doing on Thyroid-S. I do feel slightly better already though – a bit ‘brighter’. I am taking the same dose as my ERFA, ie 2 tablets per day, and will experiment to see what works best.
Angela
Hi Nick,
I was wondering how you are doing now that some time has passed with you being on Thyroid-S?
I have been off on vacation this week and it has been a write off for me which is so sad as I truly look forward to my time off to get so much done (sounds countertproductive I know, but I’m a dooer kind of personality who thrives on checking off the to do list). I finally received my Thyroid-S in the mail and before I started it wondered how you are doing. I have three days of vaca left and even though I have been feeling less than great before taking my vacation, I cannot afford to feel worse than I do as I will need to be back at work Tuesday.
cjean
What are people finding that satisfactorily is replacing Erfa?
Sarah
Hi cjean
I’ve replaced my erfa with WP thyroid. It’s early days yet and I’m nowhere near stable because I literally had to start again from square one but so far I’m tolerating it. No nasty reaction. Just raising slowly.
Shauna
For the first time, I received my ERFA thyroid in the weird looking bottle; I was fairly stable on 2.5 grains (dr. made me lower b/c of high FT3 and unmeasurable TSH) and since starting on the new bottle, my joints are so achy, I am retaining water like crazy – sleep all off — hot flashes — I do have low cortisol. I have cortef, which I took, but after a few weeks, is when I started to ache, like cramping in my feet and pain in my wrists — made me feel really hypo again, so I stopped. I think I had low potassium and maybe the cortef made it worse? All I know now is that I feel SO hypo, carpal tunnel, fluid retention blah — I am SO sick of feeling like shit…sorry, but need some help. Don’t know what to switch to — I have some Thyro-Gold, maybe a trial to see if I feel better?
Thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
FYI Shauna: Informed patients stopped letting their doctors lower their meds due to a suppressed TSH. That is normal when optimal on NDT!
But as far as Erfa, each patient has to make sure they don’t confuse the symptoms of low cortisol with a potential bad batch of Erfa. i.e. those are two different things. If you have low cortisol as proven by a 24 hour adrenal cortisol test, you’ll have problems raising any NDT, including Thyro-Gold.
Finally, there is a particular method to using Cortef (if you needed it). It’s explained in Chapter 6 in the revised STTM book.
Nick
While researching the subject of B12 deficiency, I came across a symptom that is not often listed. Apparently a shortage of B12 means that the body does not utilize hormones efficiently.
I know that I am short of B12, and I’m one who has not done well on EFRA since around February this year. Could that be the factor that makes the difference between those of us with a problem with certain thyroid medications, and those who don’t?
I’m just off for a blood test requested by the hypertension nurse at my local medical centre. I am praying that something shows up on that re the B12 situation as I have not taken my supplement for a couple of months now.
Kelly
Hello all,
I just can’t understand what I’m reading here.
I’ve been on Thyroid for 3 years now (so before and after the change of supplier) and everything is ok for me…
Yes I’ve noticed the change in the design of the bottle and the pills. It surprised me at first and I called Erfa to know if I had to change my dosage.
I trusted them when they said that the formulation was exactly the same.
Erfa changed my life and I’m still more than happy with my medication.
I don’t know if you’ll post my message but it was important for me to report my experience.
shirley
So Kelly, for the last 7 months or so have you been using any of the lot numbers, noted on this site, that others have been experiencing difficulty with? Thanks for the clarification.
Anne
It’s good to know of people who aren’t affected by this, please could you let us know the batch number, expiry date and dose of your tablets of ERFA Thyroid and also what country you are in? Thanks 🙂
The majority of people must be doing well on it otherwise we’d be hearing more about it, but some people are reporting a batch is good when others are having problems with the same batch, so it has become very confusing and may not mean there’s a problem with the manufacture.
Kelly
Hi Shirley,
Now I’m on Thyroid 60mg LFO3139A (expiration 2016)
I’m sure that I’ve bought some of the ones mentioned but to be honest I don’t have them anymore since I was okay with them :s Sorry
I live in Canada Anne 🙂 I hope it will help
From now on I’ll keep my bottles so I’ll be able to be more precise next time…
Anne
Hi Kelly,
Thanks for letting me know your batch number. I’ve just done a general internet search, then searched on about 6 specific sites I know of where people have recorded their problems with ERFA, and that batch number only appears once, in a post on Janie’s first blog about this, asking if it’s ok. So it looks as if this batch can be assumed to be ok for the moment. The only hesitation I have is that the previous three consecutive batches (LF03136/7/8A) are fine according to some people but not according to others. It’s a puzzle!
Kelly
Yes it seems complicated. :s. I can live again thanks to Erfa and I really wish that it will suit you again soon 🙂
Ren Gron
It’s been a while, is there any new correspondence from the manufacturers of Erfa?
Elysha
Hi Janie, thanks for this post. I actually never knew I was taking Erfa or what it was even though I’ve been on this medication for 8 years or so, because I got my pills from Shoppers Drug Mart and they take them out of the manufacturer bottle and put them in a blank bottle with their own label. This time, they ran out and I had to go to Safeway, and put two and two together. I have been feeling awful.
Is there a master list of bad batches somewhere? I”m about to try this new one that I just got. I’d love to know which ones people are reporting, I see a few in the comments but no concise list.
Janie Bowthorpe
No master list. But if you or someone could write down all the batches mentioned for me in the comments in this string, and include whether the person is doing well on each batch or not, I can post it. And you would get a CYBER GOLD STAR for doing it!!
Anne
Thanks you for your help Janey, I thought my ferritin was good a last but I’ll try to sort it out and also start treating my adrenals again. I think the Thyroid-S must be weaker than ERFA and that’s why I got this reaction because it only began when I took my whole dose as Thyroid-S, not while I was still substituting bits of ERFA. Hopefully when Nick tries his he’ll come back and say if he needs more than he did ERFA or less.
Janie Bowthorpe
For what it’s worth, Anne, people don’t get the palps and shakiness you describe just from being on a low dose. Those are usually associated with either an iron or cortisol problem….
Anne
Thanks Janey but this is curious, because I didn’t have either of those on the old ERFA which I was taking bits of up until last week, only three days after switching entirely to Thyroid-S. From the two reasons cortisol is the most likely going by past experience, so I shall do something about it again.
Janie Bowthorpe
I believe you, but that doesn’t mean that Thyroid-S isn’t revealing the cortisol or iron problem now. It could be that the bad batches of Erfa didn’t have enough thyroid hormones in them (or they were blocked, or they were weakened) to cause what Thyroid-S is revealing to you.
Anne
Ah, hadn’t thought of that! Ok so more to think about and sort out, thanks for your help!
Anne
Actually this brings two further questions up, but I feel I’m taking over this thread, is there anywhere else I can ask them such as facebook etc?
Janie Bowthorpe
Anne: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others
Angie
Janie: I’m with Anne on this one. I have not taken any Thyroid-S, but have tried a new batch of ERFA that I feel better on, but weak and shaky after a couple days in. I also have a UTI that seems to be tied to use of this batch, but am not completely sure yet. I do not have problems on the older ERFA batches or the bad ERFA batches..Nor have I had issues on N-T or WP until a batch I opened day before yesterday..Have a physical coming up and a spare cortisol kit, so can certainly check on iron and cortisol status, but seem to have issues only on certain batches.
Are we starting to see issues with other porcine thyroid replacements as well? We need to monitor this because I have NEVER had such problems with NDT. Something seems to definitely be going on.
Anne
Thanks Janie, now done, also apologies for mis-spelling your name for days!
Anne
Can I ask what symptoms people are having on the ERFA which is causing problems? Is it a gradual decline into feeling hypo or is a sudden reaction? I got immediate stomach upsets and didn’t continue taking it, kept to an old batch, gradually substituted some Thyroid-S until I was taking only Thyroid-S. But now I’ve had one day of complete exhaustion and today woke up shaking with palpitations, which can only be caused by the Thyroid-S. I still feel awful and don’t know what to try any more, nothing seems to suit everyone who used to get on with ERFA and I’m wondering if taking some of the new ERFA might be better than how I feel at the moment..
Janie Bowthorpe
Anne, there appears to be outright something wrong with Erfa now.
BUT…..you also have to distinguish if what you are going through is just from Erfa now being bad, or that desiccated thyroid (NDT) is revealing that you now have either low iron or cortisol, which NDT will reveal. So if you have had complete exhaustion also on Thyroid-S, that tells you that you either aren’t raising high enough, or you do have either an iron or cortisol problem which it’s revealing. You need to read https://stopthethyroidimadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Anne
Thanks Janey but I’ve had a lot of tests recently and my iron is apparently fine – 111.5 (60-180), ferritin 143.4 (10-291) both in April – and serum cortisol last November was 425 nmol/L at 8.45am no range given, but a recent saliva test also showed it as fine (I took hydrocortisone for some years but am now treated by a medical herbalist and adrenals seem to have been coping for a long time). I’ve been taking NDT for years, first Armour until it reformulated, then Naturethroid until it too reformulated then ERFA and was doing very well on it and am still ok on an older batch of ERFA, so I know that NDTs suit me normally. I have just a few tablets left of an old batch of ERFA and took 1 grain today (usual dose is 2.5 grains but I’m worried about running out) instead of taking any more of the Thyroid-S because I felt so awful.
You say that there’s now an outright problem with ERFA, is anyone getting anywhere with the company? Dr Knafo emailed me recently to ask how I was doing which I thought odd, but presumably it’s his way of monitoring those who’ve complained. I’ve asked him if there are any batches which no-one has complained about but not had a reply yet. I’d give anything to get a good batch of ERFA again! Meanwhile I think I’ll order some WP and hope it’s ok. Someone has reported that their batch of that was ’empty’ due to heat during transport which is worrying, and it contains lactose which i avoid, but there’s not much choice left now.
Janie Bowthorpe
Your ferritin reveals you have inflammation which needs treatment! Astaxanthin and Curcumin help, daily, until you fix this.
You can’t go by serum cortisol. It’s measuring both unbound and bound and doesn’t give an accurate idea. You need to redo saliva.
No, no one is getting anywhere with the company. They continue to act like it’s not their pills and you guys are the problem. Sad.
Anne
Thanks Janey and sorry if I’m being dense, but how does that ferritin result show inflammation? I thought it was good because years ago it was down to 7 and my GP told me it was fine then I read it had to be over 75. Also what sort of inflammation?
The latest salivary cortisol test I had done was four weeks ago and the results were 9am 18.9 (12-22), midday 9 (5 – 9), afternoon 4.1 (3-7) and night 0.9 (1-3). DHEA ratio came back 0.16 (0.1-0.5). The alternative doc who arranged them said my DHEA could do with boosting but cortisol was fine.
I don’t think the problem can be a reformulation of ERFA, the batches involved are so random and some people are fine others not, also some batches are ok packed in 100s but not packed in 500s. I wish they’d stop blaming us and I could back to feeling normal, or else know what else to try which would be similar.
Janie Bowthorpe
Anne, when you have inflammation, your body automatically thrusts iron into storage to stop the iron from feeding the inflammation and making it worse. Any kind of inflammation will do this.
Your morning is actually just ‘slightly’ too low, though not yet considered “low cortisol”. People with healthy morning cortisol are usually at the tip top, like 22 or 21. Noon is too high. Afternoon is too low–definitely low cortisol there. You have a stress response, showing your adrenals are taking a hit and need support, like high dose Vit. C, b-vitamins, and herbal support.
Emmy
I started WP Throid and am feeling bad. It does not do sublingual as well as Erfa. My FT3 & FT4 are both very bottom of the range and my TSH has risen. I had labs June 30 knowing I was switching from ERFA since it was having problems and then again on July 7 as I was feel so bad after only 2 weeks on it. Any suggestions? Should I raise the WP Throid (taking 65 mcg & 12.5-25mcgof cytomel currently). I was on 60 ERFA & 12.5-25mcg of cytomel before.
Leyna
Thank you Nick for sharing your 30 mg batch number of Erfa Thyroid with me. Can anyone else advise me of bad batch numbers of 30 mg Erfa Thyroid pills, or, any GOOD batch numbers of 30 mg pills ? Are the problems occuring for users of 60 mg pills, or are other 30 mg pill users experiencing problems? Thank you for your help, I am grateful for it!
Angela
Hi Leyna,
I have been on LF03506A 30 mg for a couple of weeks now and am struggling. In my opinion this batch is not good.
Anne
This is so strange because someone in Spain has said that batch is ok for her. Someone here has also said that the batch I have (13C06, 125mg x 500) is fine for him. It seems to me that the entire batches aren’t a problem but that something has happened to some of them. On a different forum someone has mentioned that they have bought WP Thyroid but it has no potency due to being heat damaged during transport and that this problem is known about. I am hoping to get the link about the problem soon, because I have been buying first Armour, then Naturethroid and then ERFA for years and never had a problem due to transport to me.
Angie
Anne…I have just finished a batch of WP that I did OK on as long as I included some “Lact-Aid” (just nibbled a little with each dose). However a 2nd batch of WP is really causing me issues. Agitation, fatigue…similar to the bad batch ERFA issues. When you find that link, please let me know..in the meantime, it may be back to Nature-throid.
Anne
Hi Angie, this is the link which I was sent by a person who is also having problems with WP:
http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroiddrugstreatments/a/drugsinsummer.htm
Soon there won’t be anything left to try 🙁 oh and I still haven’t heard back from Dr Knafo of course. I seem to be ok on Thyroid-s, had a few shaky days last week, but perhaps it’s ok after all. I know several people taking it with no problem, but I don’t like the list of fillers and wish Thiroyd had worked for me instead. I may give it another try actually.
Anne
Leyna I have asked Dr Kanfo if he could let me know the batch numbers of any ERFA which no-one has complained about. I don’t know if I will get a response though. Meanwhile I have been told that the following are ok BN136051 expiry 07 2016 60mgs and
LF03140B expiry 10/2016 60mgs, however I don’t have them and haven’t tried them unfortunately.
Angie
Hello again, Anne. I responded at great length to Dr. Knafo sometime ago, again requested the results of the investigation, and have not received a response.
Sarah
I would very much like to hear from those of you who have switched to WP THYROID because of the ERFA problem. I have just started taking it. How are you doing on it?
Pattycakes
After 17 days on WP, I am still feeling good most of the time. My mood & focus are stabilizing. I have lost one pound, no headaches, less pain in joints, only a few almost imperceptible palpitations, nothing like the horrible ones I was having with ERFA. I have not had any more flushing, as I noted in my first rambling posting of Aug 5. My focus seems much better now. This past week I have even started reorganizing my art supplies & started a new project!
I wonder if the flushing I had was from the sudden uptake of T3 when I switched from ERFA to WP?
Sarah
Hello Pattycakes,
That sounds like really great positive steps forward. Also sounds as though you are becoming creative again which must be a huge relief for you. Thank you for replying…..it gives me hope too. Hope you continue to improve and that your your health returns.x
Chris
No Janet, we are not all nuts. There is definitely a problem somewhere, and I am leaning towards that problem being with what is being fed to the pigs on which we rely.
Yesterday, an online news site included an article with a direct accusation as to the cause of birth defects identified by one Danish pig farmer named Ib Borup Pedersen. That article identified one particular chemical manufacturer; but ever since their patent expired, they are no longer the sole producer of that herbicide which happens to be an endocrine disruptor. Different companies combine glyphosate with different adjuvants (substances that intensify an effect), some of which can apparently be even worse than the glyphosate itself.
Twenty years ago, I remember the Danish countryside being covered with bright yellow fields of a crop that I was told would be dried and used for Winter fodder. Now, several Western hemisphere countries are apparently major sources of GMO soy animal feed that is shipped to Europe. Naively, I did not suspect that EU attitudes against GMOs did not extend to feed for their farm animals!
When I suggested that it would be nice if ERFA purchased their raw materials from Denmark, rather than from where ever they had been getting them, little did I realize how wide spread the potential problem was.
“GM soy linked to health damage in pigs – a Danish Dossier”
When farmer Pedersen ran out of feed, he had purchased some imported GMO feed, and shortly ran into all sorts of problems with his herd. He switched back to non-GMO feed without saying anything to his farm hand. Within days, his farm hand noticed an improvement.
“Danish Whistle-blowers Reveal Links between GM soy, Roundup and Health Damage in Pig Herd”
It is quite possible that Dr. Knafo has made absolutely no changes in the production of ERFA; but that an increasing number of farmers, have changed their pigs’ feed.
I’m still leaning towards trying some of that NZ bovine thyroid glandular product, “nutri-pak THYROID”, by way of Colorado.
The title of this article from NZ, lends support to my decision: “GE animal feed? No thanks! ”
Sandra
Wow Chris,
That is amazing and very scarey information for if this is the case then what options does that leave us. It would be interesting to find out, for all the other dessicated products that continue to work for people, where do they get there material from. I remember specifically my pharmacy telling me that back when it was on back order for the first time that they were told by Erfa that they had changed their supplier. They can say it isn’t so but why would a pharmacist make that up?
Chris
Sandra, between the farmer and pharmacist; there are two interim levels of “supplier”. ERFA’s processor is now in Spain, instead of Belgium. But from where is their processor getting the raw materials??? If ERFA changed supplier just for the sake of price, then sadly, they have “sold-out” their reputation, and our source for a product we have come to rely on. That ultimately can’t be good for their bottom line.
I highly recommend this YouTube video that I discovered this morning, which is sort of a debate between a self assured CBC TV ‘personality’ named Kevin O’Leary, and a very astute fourteen year old advocate for GMO labeling. It is titled: “Rachel Parent debates GMO’s (vs) Kevin O’Leary on CBC’s Lang & O’Leary Exchange”. (Either use your search engine to find it, or type in the usual www. then copy, cut, & paste: youtube.com/watch?v=TX_-Zoom9Uc The format of this blog does not allow for the posting of URL links.)
ShayFL
I have about 6 unopened bottles and some are the so called “bad” batches and I’ve opened them and they look exactly the same as the ones I am taking now which are the “old” bottles. Not shiny…no discoloration. No deeper indentions. Hoping the are ok!
Leyna
Like many of you, I’ve done well with Erfa for many years, and am horrified to learn about the recent problems so many folks are having with it. It’s been a while since I’ve needed to refill my script, but I will soon need to. Can anyone tell me if there have been problems with 30 mg Thyroid tablets?? If so, are there specific batch #’s or expir. dates I should try to GET or AVOID? Last but not least, I live in the US and have ordered directly from Erfa in the past, but more recently, through Canadadrugs.com. Has anyone had luck requesting specific batches or expir. dates when ordering online? If so is there an online company that has been sympathetic or at least accomodating re checking the batch no/expir. dates ahead of the sale? Deepest thanks in advance to anyone who can advise me regarding 30 mg tablets. Thank you!!!!
Nick
I have a batch of LF03508A 30mg tablets and they are NOT working.
Lori T
Leyna I have a bottle of LF03508A 30mg tablets, expiry 02/2017, and they ARE working. I am wondering if Nicks expiry date is different? Could batch numbers be the same for different dates? My bottle also says Montreal Canada on it. Could this make a difference too? Geez how confusing!!
Angie
Nick..I have this same batch..and with years of experience, I can’t tell you if it’s working or not. I feel hypo and then alternatively hyper. I have some weak shakiness and feeling like I just can not deal with stress on this new batch..at ALL. HR a little higher than usual and temps lower. Also a recurring UTI and a little weight gain.
Janet Wright
I am having problems as well and seem to have the same symptoms as Bettina. I am going to try sublingual method. Increase the dose a bit and take it split a.m and p.m.. Also, taking more selenium and including a few drops of iodine. I am hoping this will work. I contacted the company and they are standing firm that there is no difference in the manufacturing process. Go figure. Are we all nuts???
Bettina
I was doing great, feeling healthy and strong for a long time, a month ago I started taking the Canada NT that I had received a month ago (before I was taking Armour that I had from 7 months ago), well, for the past 4 weeks, i have been feeling awful, tired, my thyroid has swollen, i have nausea most of the time and my body aches. Now I hear about other people having problems! I can’t even think straight !
Sandra
How come I haven’t seen any new comments the past two days, I”m sure people are still talking?
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, all comments which come in are posted.
Sandra
thanks Janie, sorry, your blog keeps me sane :).
Angela
Great, now Thyroid-S and Thiroyd are both sold out. Now what does one do?
Nick
I’ve got an order for Thyroid-S marked as ‘dispatched’ from yesterday.
Anne
Nick when you try the Thyroid-S please will you come back and say how you’re getting on. I’ve taking it since mid-June, just small amounts to start with along with some old ERFA, but this last week have had days of exhaustion and waking up shaking with palpitations since taking my whole dose as Thyroid-S. I’m not sure if I need more of it than I did ERFA or less and can’t find anyone else who’s swapped it for ERFA to compare. Thanks.
Nick
Has anybody got any spare Prozac? I’ve just received my next two months supply of ERFA, and it is batch LF03507A despite writing to my endo three times about this issue!
I guess it is now hello Thyroid-S.
Anne
Nick there is one person from Spain on the STTM Canada Facebook page who has batches LF03506A, LF03507A and LF03508A and thinks they all look ok and is getting on ok with the first one, having had a bad batch earlier this year. So it may be worth trying the ones you’ve been given in case they’re ok, because it seems that not all of the same batches are bad, or perhaps it’s that some people are reacting to some batches and some to others.
Nick
I’ve been taking the new batch pills since Thursday and feel as bad as ever.
Pattycakes
I started Erfa last summer & was doing pretty well with it until about February. First fatigue, then exhaustion, lack of interest in my usual activites, and headaches, with a continual feeling of a clamp on my head. Ugh. I gained back ten of the fifteen pounds I had previously lost. Several times a day i would have a tightness in my neck/throat area that is difficult to describe & i would feel faint. The worst symptom of all though, were the heart palpitations. It felt like my heart was turning over in my chest. My doctor ordered a Halter monitor then reduced my dosage again from 3.5 to 3gr. Palpitations quieted, but I could barely function.
Then I found all of you, and realize I am not alone!
My doctor prescribed WP Thyroid. I knew from the first dose (3gr sublingual, 6am-10am-2pm) that
Something is not right about that previous batch of Erfa (unknown batch number).
The only side effect that I have had with WP is an episode of facial flushing 24 hrs after first dose & another episode 48 hours after that. Felt like hot pepper sauce poured on my skin, not like a hot flash & my elbows were red too. Both times I had taken my usual handful of vitamins just before the flush started, so I stopped them & am adding them back, one at a time, Iodoral first.
When I felt the best on Erfa I was at 3.75gr. (before February).
I was feeling very hypo after a week on WP at 3gr so 2 days ago I went up to 3.25gr and felt better immediately.
I have read every single one of these comments! Thanks to everybody for writing.
This website has helped me SO much. Janie, you convinced me to get off Synthroid after more than 40 years! Truly I feel SO much better than I did taking it. And now you have helped me again with this information about Erfa. Thank you very much.
Chris
Patty, you mentioned taking a usual “hand full of vitamins”. By any chance, did you take a larger amount, or a different type of niacin than usual? Niacin flush can cause a very uncomfortable “hot pepper sauce” feel. I have occasionally felt it after taking a B Complex capsule, that previously hadn’t caused problems. Maybe it came from taking it on an empty stomach, while other times it had been taken with enough food to buffer the reaction? The reaction is supposed to be beneficial, but it sure can be scary too, especially if you don’t know to expect it!
Pattycakes
Thank you Chris, you are probably exactly right about niacin causing the flushing. I just looked up symptoms & includes flushing of joints. Even though it was only my face & outer elbows, maybe it was caused by my B complex with 100mg of niacin. I have taken it many times before, but……I discontinued it along with the others vits, and added it back in 3 days ago without further flushing.
When I originally researched thyroid + flushing, all I came up with is medullary thyroid cancer, but does not include joints. So thank you for mentioning this. I will talk it over with my doctor but in the meantime I am very much relieved that it was probably just the niacin!
Angie
One thought I had about the WP. One of the fillers is lactose. I am lactose intolerant and wonder if an inability to digest lactose might be the problem. I may try with some Lact-Aid to see if I can actually (feels like I am taking nothing) take this as an ERFA substitute.
Kathleen McGee
Thanks for this blog post. I believe that I may have been taking a ‘bad batch’ too. Since March, I’ve gained 15 lbs with no change in my diet, am retaining a lot more water ( a nightmare during heat waves), wake up stiff and sore, and have been needing to sleep an extra hour or two a day.
So according to folks here. just to make sure I’ve got it straight…
I should ask the pharmacist if they have any of batch #LF03508A in stock? Is this the only batch that seems to work?
If the pharmacy has none of the ‘good batch’, perhaps I could try to up my dosage of ERFA? (I’m currently only on 1 grain (60 mg) which now I’m reading is perhaps too low of a dose to begin with?)
Since I live in Canada, is there a way to get my hands on the other brands of NDT? (besides from Colorado)?
Thanks for all of your information!! I’m glad at least that there’s a reason for my symptoms.
Nick
I discovered that in the UK we can report a medicine that appears not to work, to the MHRA. I went to their site but couldn’t find how to complain about a medication, so have written to them for further advice.
It may be worth all of us in the UK reporting current batches of ERFA as being ineffective.
Janie Bowthorpe
Do understand that with the fact that NDT is an “unapproved drug”, and the fact that the UK medical system is clueless about NDT as a prime treatment, reporting about this may be the worst thing you can do.
Nick
I take your point Janie but it could also work both ways.
Janie Bowthorpe
No Nick, NDT is considered an “unapproved drug”. By reporting Erfa, the risk can be greater that what they do is not going to help patients at all.
Nick
Well, they simply replied that they only deal with drugs manufactured in the UK so wouldn’t be interested in ERFA anyway.
Sriram Kannan
I’m new to this site and i made a post already. Forget to ask few more questions.
since Erfa is now having issue. Should i try Armour ?. I take 50 mg Eltroxin and i wanted to try Natural harmone. Please advise if any existing issues with Armour as Erfa. I stay in Canada and i cannot get to order Armour through doctors. Please suggest if available local in canada.
Also please advise on switching to Armour and any current similar issues as Erfa. Thanks
Nick
Armour worked well for me initially Sriram but after they reformulated it, it didn’t work at all, hence I moved to ERFA. I rather suspect that you will read similar replies.
Sriram Kannan
Would someone be able to suggest other best working natural thyroid. I see WP-Thyroid, S-Thyroid. What seems more acceptable with user experience. Since I’m in Canada pharmacy do not sell any other natural thyroid other than Erfa..Please provide some direction.
Chris
Sriram, I myself just discovered this web site a week ago, after trying to renew my Erfa Rx. Back when my doctor decided to try me on natural thyroid, I requested Erfa, because it was at a time after the Armour reformulation, and there were a lot of complaints about the new Armour not working as well as the old.
The following is for information only; it is not an endorsement; but there is a bovine thyroid product being sold in Colorado. I don’t understand how it can be sold OTC w/o a Rx; but in Colorado they already sell things not allowed for sale in other states (if you catch my drift). There is an FDA disclaimer posted on the page, however, drawing attention to it’s presence, could crack down on it’s availability. Hope that doesn’t happen, because I just may decide to try some. Can’t do too much worse than taking something that already isn’t working like it used to.
The distributor has a Wisconsin address. They also appear to be the manufacturer. Their bovine raw materials come from New Zealand.
I’m going to ask my local Health Food Store if it is something that they could offer.
Sriram Kannan
I recently switched from eltroxin 50 mg to Erfa natural thyroid 60 mg. I feel really terrible with this tablet. its been two weeks on it. Wondering if i need to switch back to Eltroxin until the Erfa batch issue is resolved. I do not know the lot number but the expiry date is 10/2016
Does any one have good results with new batch with expiry after 10/2016.
My blood work were normal on eltroxin with few symptoms and i just wanted to try Erfa but its worst than Eltroxin
After started reading this forum…should i wait for new Erfa batch to try…local pharmacy does not have stock for 60 mg and 30 mg are available with expiry 10/2016. I was told that new batch will be ordered after Aug.
Please advise new batch that i should be looking for and if anyone feeling well
Janie Bowthorpe
Sriram, I think any informed thyroid patient will tell you not to go back to Eltroxin alone, but instead, add T3 to your Eltroxin until the day comes that Erfa owns up to the problem and makes the correct change. Or you can explore other brands that other Canadians have gotten of NDT. Also remember that one grain is just a starting dose. You WILL feel worse on one grain if you hold onto it for too long. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Sriram Kannan
Hi Janie,
Thanks for your reply. With consideration 60 mg of erfa is equivalent to 100 mg of t4 only or 74 mg of t4 only (t3 is four time equivalent to t4) many sites suggest it is 100 mg. Should u think that 60 mg is lower dose and i would have been in a feedback loop ?
I believe the return of the symptoms is purely due to current issue and not due to the dosage level. Please share your thoughts on it.
How and where do it get t3 only and how do i calculate the dosage levels. Please advise on it.
Ruth Keeme
Hi I want to know what is this about armour? I take armour and wondering if there was something going on?? Sorry about it being over my head? Thanks so much
Elysha
Ruth this is about Erfa Thyroid, not Armour. Different brands.
Nick
I’ve just had to order some more ERFA through my endo who supplies it through the hospital pharmacy. I rang the pharmacy and asked if I could have batch #LF03508A but they told me that they are not allowed to order a specific batch.
So it looks like I will have to order some Thryroid-S or put up with feeling like a zombie!
Anne
Nick is there any particular reason why you’ve chosen Thyroid-S rather than any of the others?
Nick
I’m trying to make a decision based on what I’ve read online Anne. It would appear that I can only get (without prescription) Thyroid-S or Thiroid, and I seen more reports of Thyroid-S working than Thiroid.
Anne
I’ve tried both Thiroyd and Thyroid-S recently. I’d say Thyroid-S is the better but in the last week I’ve felt awful and I’m not sure if it’s other things going on or the Thyroid-S. It’s also possible to buy other brands online, my endo will only give me a prescription for Armour, so I buy without prescription. I’m considering WP Thyroid, but if the Thyroid-S is ok then it’s very much cheaper and in the long run I have to think of the cost too. If you want to know the other places to buy the other brands let me know.
Chris
Before ‘something’ changed, we (on this blog) all appear to have been satisfied proponents of ERFA – Thyroid. Some participants had also been satisfied proponents of Armour, before it changed. Whatever those changes have been, they have done damage to what had been two fine products.
While searching for answers, I came across this disturbing paragraph on Wikipedia: (Frankly, the whole article is rather disturbing.)
“According to the National Pesticide Information Center fact sheet, Glyphosate is not included in compounds tested for by the Food and Drug Administration’s Pesticide Residue Monitoring Program, nor in the United States Department of Agriculture’s Pesticide Data Program. However a field test showed that lettuce, carrots, and barley contained glyphosate residues up to one year after the soil was treated with 3.71 pounds of glyphosate per acre (4.15 kg per hectare).”
The ERFA/Armour problems maybe caused by something entirely different from any herbicide; but how can we ever find out, if they don’t even look for residues?
Catarina
Chris,
You’re right, it’s really confusing…not to mention frightening. Thanks for this additional piece of info.
Chris
Don’t know if Yogi Berra ever said this or not, but he could have:
“If you don’t look for something, you hardly ever find ‘it’. ”
Maybe Dr. Knafo should be testing all raw materials (NDT, AND any fillers) for traces of Glyphosate.
Maybe we all should be tested for traces of Glyphosate.
Catarina
Anne’s question above (why this problematic batch is still circulating in Belgium?) made me wonder if NDT simply stays longer on the pharmacy shelves in Europe, for the simple reason that there are fewer patients on it than in the US and Canada…?
When I was first put on NDT, in late 2011, I got Armour, and I did great on it for the first six months (15, 30, 60, 90, and 120 mg pills). I could simply not understand what everyone was talking about. Then I refilled my prescription in July 2012, and crashed within a week. I thought the reason was I had been given 240 mg pills (I figured they contain more cellulose than the smaller pills), so I asked for 120 mg pills instead, only to discover that they were not at all effective (compared to the 120 mg pills I had previously taken).
I have asked many times if it is at all possible that I got the old Armour the first time around, and the answer has always been “no, it’s impossible, the old formula would be long gone from the pharmacy shelves by late 2011”. Yes, in the US and Canada, but what about Europe?! What if the bottles I got had been there since before the 2009 reformulation? They all expired in November or December 2012, so that must mean that old Armour would be good for more than three and a half years after the reformulation…
I cannot explain it, but I remember feeling better than I had in years on the first bottles of Armour. In the first few weeks on it, I lost almost 5 kilograms (10 pounds) of excess fluid and, after a couple of months on it, people started saying to me that I looked better, that my skin looked brighter, and that I seemed to have lost weight and have more energy and stamina…which was true. I have never felt that good again, not even on Erfa, even though it was an acceptable alternative when Armour stopped working.
Anne
I am in the UK but buy privately with the knowledge of my endocrinologist so get mine from the US – sort of – so it’s possible that I got one of the first jars of that batch. I think that UK pharmacies buy in almost as needed. But in Europe, especially Belgium as you have a very knowledgeable doctor in Brussels, I would imagine that they keep stock in, so buy every now and then. In which case it could sit on the shelves for a while. Also I don’t think so many people get the 125mg tablets so they’d hang around for longer. I suppose the expiry dates are long lasting so it shouldn’t matter, but it could also explain why Dr Knafo says so few people have complained.
Catarina
Chris,
Interesting. I remember reading a statement by Henri Knafo some time ago, where he made it clear that Erfa has an obligation to report all formula changes to Health Canada. Since that does not seem to be the case, I can only conclude that whatever changed to make the pills less effective is not the result of a reformulation.
It is possible that new suppliers of raw material means that the pigs from which the thyroid glands are harvested have been fed something that affects us in a negative way. Or the production methods have changed. It’s obvious that something has changed but, judging from all the messages from the Medical director to patients that I have found online, Erfa is clueless about this…
Trisha
Hi,
Suggestion: Everyone who has jumped ship from ERFA out of total necessity, should make a post saying so. Then Dr. Knafo can read these one after another
for evidence.
We are NOT stupid! We KNOW our bodies like no one else, and no one else EVER will! We are informed & resourceful, and we KNOW our medications (with some of us having been on Armour or ERFA, and others for
YEARS)! It is NOT in our heads, it is in
our cells… systemically throughout our bodiesand we know what works and what doesn’t – period!
I for one… am OFF ERFA until this whole thing gets totally resolved, and
ERFA regains it’s efficacy! THAT’S IT!
Chris
This thought occurred to me… With so many observed changes in the way Erfa works (or doesn’t); might the responsibility of those changes rest with suppliers of raw materials to Erfa, rather than with Erfa themselves having knowingly made any changes?
My reasons for choosing Erfa in the first place were: (assuming that under EU guidelines that “Belgian” porkers were:)
1. Less likely to have been “factory farmed”
2. Less likely to have been fed antibiotics
3. Less likely to have been fed any GMO feed
4. Less likely to have been given any fluoride in their water source
In recent months, maybe those pigs on which we have come to rely, have been raised somewhere other than Belgium; and were actually subjected to one or more of the above four reasons why I chose Erfa; as well as some as yet unimagined causes. And maybe problems discovered with the product were behind the move of manufacturing from Belgium to Spain.
A few years back, the substance melamine was found to have tainted numerous brands of pet foods. Did all of those brands knowingly incorporate melamine in their product in order to have it ‘test’ with a higher protein content than it actually deserved? Or were they victims of their own suppliers of raw materials? The reason why so many dogs and cats died, escaped discovery for quite some time. When the cause was finally realized, and deliberately looked for, melamine turned up in a surprising number of places. Might Erfa be dealing with a similar situation?
Catarina
Chris,
Very interesting indeed!
Erfa has consistently denied making any deliberate changes to Thyroid (cf Armour Pharmaceuticals and RLC Labs that never denied reformulating Armour and Nature-Throid, even if their reasons for doing so are not very clear to me), so your theories actually do make a lot of sense.
Are you in Europe? I’m asking because it’s not often anyone outside the EU refers to EU guidelines:-)
Chris
Catarina, I am in California, but aware that Europe has different standards from what goes on here in North America.
Catarina
Chris (and others),
According to this interview, Erfa gets its raw material from North America, and then the pills themselves used to be manufactured in Belgium (then manufacturing was moved to Spain last year, it seems?!) I guess this means that the raw material (porcine thyroid) was (and still is) harvested in North America, then shipped to Europe (Belgium), where it was processed and manufactured, and this continues to be the case, only the raw material is now shipped to Spain instead of Belgium…?
https://ruthroland.wordpress.com/?s=strictly+North+American+porcine
Catarina
Chris
Thank you Catarina for posting that article; although sadly, I am disillusioned. The principal reasons for which I chose Erfa have been dashed. Like it or not, it appears that we have probably been taking thyroid that includes all those points I was trying to avoid: “Factory Farmed”, antibiotic laced, GMO fed, and possibly fluoride watered animals. As long as Erfa buys their raw materials elsewhere, I would much rather see them get their NDT from a country famous for their ham production, Denmark.
Colette
Chris thank you, I’ve been scanning comments for information on wether or not the thyroid comes from pigs that have been fed GMO feed? I avoid gmo every chance I get and try to eat mostly organic, so I’m very concerned about the source. Most of us know that GMO’s are toxic, and I just read today about piglets born with deformities who mothers were fed gmo soy feed and had very high concentrations of Glyfosate (that’s in Roundup, Monsanto owned). I would hate to imagine that for the last 10 years I’ve been ingesting poison through a medicine that I need to keep me alive. I took Armour which worked great before they screwed it up and have been taking Erfa since then. I am having issues, but not sure if it’s the Erfa not working right, my own hormones or if my ferritin levels are off. Getting more blood work tomorrow so hopefully I’ll know a little more in a few weeks.
Chris
Colette, while reading your reply, this thought hit me… Isn’t the EU supposed to ban GMOs? They even refer to them as “Franken Food”. (Franken… as in Frankenstein, not Al Franken!) We ought to have Nation wide labeling laws to keep such products out of their commerce, even if we can’t seem to keep them out of ours.
Something else I have heard, is that Roundup is even used on non “Roundup Ready” crops, such as wheat, to deliberately kill the mature plants, and speed up the grain’s drying time in the field, prior to storage. Might there be binders gleaned from such cellulose?
Catarina
http://ec.europa.eu/food/plant/gmo/legislation/index_en.htm
Anne
Chris I think that the problem is outside ERFA’s control or sphere too. Any one of your suggestions could be correct and, reading about how they source the pigs’ thyroid, I also think that there’s plenty of opportunity for the raw material to be damaged somehow in transit. This would all explain why Dr Knafo is taking it seriously (because I think he is taking it seriously) but not coming up with anything. I do think it would be helpful to know what Waveylines’ GP and pharmacist have discovered (post above), but probably there’s a good reason why she hasn’t told us.
Catarina
Also, the 100 ct bottles I got in June do not look like anything I’ve seen before; it’s a white bottle with a transparent label (blue print), and you don’t screw the lid to open the bottle…it does not seem possible to upload photos here but, like I said, it does not look anything like the previous bottles. Also, on this new bottle, the address of the manufacturer is not mentioned anywhere; all the label says is: “THYROID ERFA 125 mg 100co Lot: 13C06 Exp: 03/16”. In other words, no prescribing or dosage information, no DIN number (to the left on the other labels), no code to scan…it does not even have the Erfa logo.
Anne
I wonder if your pharmacy dispensed the tablets from either a different batch or a larger batch. Are you able to ask them? I also think it would be an idea of you could photograph both jars, some of the tablets to show how different they all look, and send the photo to Dr Knafo. I doubt he’d be pleased to know that batches have been mixed up if that’s the case, and if not then it’s definitely something he needs to know about.
I believe the old manufacturing plant was run by Parke-Davies, I wonder who runs the new one. Does anyone know?
Catarina
Anne,
Thanks for this input! To my dismay, I saw that two 100 ct bottles (125 mg pills) that I got in Belgium on June 30th belong to the same batch…so yes, they were still in circulation in Belgium a month ago…hopefully, the problems only concerned this particular batch!
I looked again and, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the pills are two different colors (grayish and more yellow)…
I will contact Erfa again, now that they are aware of the problem, and stress that my pills belong to the same batch (when I contacted H Knafo, I had no idea about this).
Catarina
I got a 500 ct bottle of 125 mg Erfa pills (batch 13C06), exp 03/16) a few months ago (from a pharmacy in Belgium), and only read this today. Since starting on this bottle, I have had to raise my dose from 6 to 8 grains daily; yet, my most recent labs showed barely mid-range FT4 levels, and FT3 levels were not at the top of the range where they used to be. I emailed Dr. Knafo about this, and his reply was: “8 grains is an awfully high dose. Have you had your TSH checked?”
I had a closer look at the pills, and it seems me to me that some are brighter than others…some seem more yellow. Could new and old formula be mixed in one bottle…?
Anyway, I have seriously considered switching to another brand these past few weeks, since it has been very difficult to make Erfa work properly…at least this bottle. I don’t know if other batches are any better?
Anne
Catarina that is the batch that several of us have had problems with, including Waveylines above whose doctor and pharmacist have apparently investigated and found a problem with them.
Mine were bought last November (so why are they still in circulation in Belgium?) and they gave me immediate stomach upsets. I only took them for three days before complaining to Dr Knafo. He alleged that I must have become intolerant of ERFA Thyroid but I pointed out that I am fine with an older batch. He also said they were from the old manufacturer in Belgium and not the new one in Spain and that n-one else had complained about that batch, but I know of four others who have done and they live far apart – from Canada to Finland. Mine look exactly the same as before but don’t have such a strong smell as before. I think you are the first person to say that that batch looks different, so I too wonder if they are being mixed up.
Please continue to complain about this to Dr Knafo, we have to find out what has happened so that we can hopefully one day regain our trust in ERFA. I have switched to a different brand but it is too soon to say whether they are going to be ok or not.
Mo
Caterina , I get my erfa from a pharmacy in Belgium and took lot 13co6 expiry 3/16 125mg -underwent slow decline. Now on new batch lot LFO3728A and not convinced they are any better but only taken for 2 weeks. Did you swap to a different NDT?
Mary
Just picked up my prescription from Costco ( armour 60 mg 120 pills) and was shocked to find the price has doubled from $20 to $40. So I need to find a better price. Any ideas? Also, what is the WP some of you are referring to? I checked my book and couldn’t find any reference.
Janie Bowthorpe
Mary, read about it here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands And yes, it was destined to happen when NDT has become so popular. Greedy pharmaceuticals.
Sara
Is this what has been happening to me??? I had a two bottles from my pharmacy of Erfa (picked them up earlier this year) and about two months ago one morning, i opened the bottle that was finishing and it smelled strongly of rotten fish. I’ve been taking Erfa for 3/4 years now and I had never had my pills smell that badly. I thought weird and the pills went bad. So I opened the new bottle and it had the same strong smell. Because it had never happened before, I took it back to my pharmacist and insisted on getting replacements for it. She kept telling me that it was normal and I told her, that I’ve been taking this for years and I never had this before and because she and I didn’t know why it smelled so rotten, i wasn’t going to mess around my thyroid and continue to take them. She didn’t want to replace them and kept saying I mustve left them out in the heat or something. I just continued arguing with her and she finally replaced them and said she would send them to the lab and they would contact me. I really just thought it was one bad batch. When someone at the lab contacted me they wanted to know if i had left the pills in heat or something. I said no, in my cabinet as always. I wish I’d paid more attention to whom I was talking to but i just dismissed it all as one bad batch.
Now I’m half way through the replacement bottle and I opened it this morning and the smell is back. So i started to google and saw this posting. I realize my depression has been hitting me more than usual and my hair is falling out even more in the shower. is this just me being paranoid or could it have something to do with the pills? I’m going to call my pharmacy tomorrow morning again and get the info for the lab. Is it safe to take this pills despite the smell? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sara, actually, the smell is common for many NDT products. That wasn’t the problem. The problem is that the 2014 Erfa has not been working well for folks, smell or not.
Sara
oh ok thank you!
waveylines
A little update, I have now been on WP thyroid for nearly a month and feel so much better -finally I have energy – feel like I am getting my life back. I have finally been able to resume my normal hot summer dose of 3 !/2 grains per day. if I had another condition inhibiting or causing my symptoms then I would not be improving on WP Thyroid surely.
How on earth can Erfa say there is not a problem with their Thyroid I really don’t know.
Over in the UK my GP and pharmacist have done their own investigations and found out there is problem -the word is out Dr Knafo -you do need to get this sorted. I am going to see my Endocrinologist today and will be discussing what has happened. over the 6 months of decline ( having done well on Erfa for three years before) I have put on 3 stone in weight!!! This is in part because I have not been able to do any form of sustained activity but 3 stone? I do not buy the argument that I have been given by Dr Knafo that I have developed resistance to Erfa Thyroid but will discuss this with the Endocrinoligist I am seeing today.
I am incredibly grateful to this site -thank you so much Janie -without or the comments on here and elsewhere I may not have twigged for a while longer -the last time I felt so poorly with all the symptoms that i have had ( now all going again :)) is before I was diagnosed!!! never not even on levothyroxine have I felt so ill on thyroid treatment -and believe me that is saying something! Yes my anger is still there. For a start I now have 3 stone to shift!!! I am grateful that my employer has been so understanding as I have not been able to work for 5 weeks. Now feeling like I could resume and sustain work soon -what a relief.
Thank you thank you thank you to you all on here………
Anne
“Over in the UK my GP and pharmacist have done their own investigations and found out there is problem”
Waveylines that sentence is intriguing, are you able to elaborate and tell us what they found out? Or if not are they taking it any further? I’m taking Thyroid-S at the moment but am not keen on all the fillers so it’s good to know you’re getting on well with WP Thyroid.
Dianne
waveylines, I second Anne’s request. If you are able to tell us what they found out we would greatly appreciate it.
waveylines
So Sorry Dianne & Tammy for my late reply -been away 🙂 My Gp said he had done his own investigations and had found out that there is a problem with Erfa Thyroid -he said they have changed countries and they have changed the pressers for their tablets. i said could a different presser reduce the efficacy of the tablet -he said yes. Both he and my pharmacist are of the opinion that Erfa has changed -he was really different with me -very compassionate as he totally got why i wanted to change brands. However in the Uk getting a NDT on the NHS is no easy thing so had to go to a private enlightened Endocrinologist to get the ok for brand change… -Of course as i sad I had changed brands in any case -can’t carry on feeling so ill if I can avoid it.
The Endocrinologist was not impressed with Erfa Thyroid -not because it is a NDT -but she said she had many patients complaining of it’s lack of efficacy for them so her opinion was that it is right to switch brands -though she wasn’t happy that I had done it without medical supervision.
Anne
Thanks for getting back to us Waveylines. My endocrinologist wasn’t at all amused to hear about the changes to ERFA either, but he only offered me Armour, and said that would have to be on a private prescription, so I’m trying out Thyroid-S at the moment and thinking of getting some WP Thyroid as most people seem to get on with that. If only the NHS would even believe I need thyroid hormones… but they don’t!
Anne
Actually Waveylines there is something else – I bought batch 13C06 expiry 03/2016, which I think you also have, in November 2013, so a month before the production changed to Spain, therefore the new pressing machines etc can’t have had any effect on them, something else is wrong with them.
Dianne
Thanks for answering our question waveylines. 🙂
Nick
” never not even on levothyroxine have I felt so ill on thyroid treatment -and believe me that is saying something! ”
That’s exactly how I feel now waveylines. I’ve not been quite this bad for so long a period. It’s as though it is actually doing harm rather than just not working. Or perhaps once we get used to thyroid medication that works, we become more dependent on it, and feel worse when it is taken away!
Janie Bowthorpe
Nick, every human being is dependent on their thyroid hormones. i.e. dependency has nothing to do with “getting used to thyroid medication”. It’s a biological dependency.
Sandra
Waveylines,
I am so happy to hear you are doing well on an alternate thyroid treatment, it is bitter sweet, sad that you have had to endure this and loose your employment income for 5 weeks. Reading this on a day that seems not as good for me gives me hope that the comings and goings of energy, depression, etc can be remedied with a change to another source. Please keep us posted on your feedback from your appointments and I too would love to know what the findings are by your GP and your pharmacist.
Thank you for your feedback!
Tammy
Thanks for the update Angie. I have enough of the old Erfa to last until Feb-Mar next year. I hope they get this issue with Erfa resolved. I don’t want to switch brands again. I have been doing good on Erfa since I started taking it back during the Armour reformulation. I will keep checking here for updates. Hope when I order some later this year they will work for me. I don’t understand why these companies make changes to medications that are working for people. Can you still take this new formulation sublingually? That’s how I take the Erfa I have been using & that’s how I used Armour until they reformulated it. Thanks.
Nick
I’ve been taking the ‘new’ ERFA sublingually Tammy. I didn’t try that with the older ‘working’ ERFA so can’t say what the difference is to swallowing it..
Angie
Update…somewhat long…sorry.
I am now on my 3rd day of 30 mg batch LF03508A. It seems to be, if a little on the weak side, more like what I am used to from ERFA. At least as yet, no profound fatigue or other sickness that I had on my early 2014 batches. Will continue to keep you all updated.
I did hear back, interestingly enough, from Dr. Knafo. He stated that he had had problems getting emails to me (a couple had bounced back) and that he was checking in to see how I was doing. He also stated that results of ERFA’s investigation would be made available to any that would sign a disclaimer. Here is my response to Dr. Knafo. I once again want to say that he has always been very helpful in the past. Willing to answer questions and genuinely concerned that his product be safe and effective for the customers buying it. He may be simply overwhelmed with the number of complaints and/or have his hands tied by his superiors.
Dear Dr. Knafo:
I am not sure why you had problems getting emails to me directly, but I can report that no one else has indicated to me that they have had a problem. Could this perhaps be a an issue at your end?
Since you have sent me two emails (and I have sent subsequent emails to mine below which have gone unanswered), I will answer both.
Yes. I did have bloodwork done. My FT4 and FT3 levels were a little on the high side with the “new” ERFA. However, I was not well on this medicine as I have reported many times. Gastro-intestinal issues, profound fatigue with a heavy chest feeling, brain-fog and a drop in mood. The fatigue and heavy chest feeling were serious enough for me to have visited my primary care physician twice. I have read, from others experiencing problems, that you have attributed the problems that many of us have had on the new medication to a sudden inability to tolerate ERFA. This is very disappointing to me. As I believe I conveyed to you, I did have a small amount of older, 60 mg tabs that I did not experience the same problems on. I went back and forth 2-3 times between the old and new formulas and did not have the same problems on the old. I did experience, on the older formula, a “drop” in effectiveness. However, as I usually have to increase my meds by about 1/4 grain in the colder months of the year, I assumed that it was not the med, but the seasonal change that was the problem. So…this was not a sudden inability to “tolerate” ERFA. If folks had problems on the older batches, I can not really speak to that. My issues started with the prescription refills that I obtained from The Canadian Pharmacy in early 2014.
Since I have spoken with you, I have once again attempted to try ERFA (batch LF03508A) expiry 2/2017. Since I have only been on it a couple of days, I can not really give any meaningful report, but early indications seem to be that this batch may be a little more what I am used to from ERFA. I am happy to keep you posted, if you would like.
I want to once again speak to the fact that I was once ERFA’s biggest fan. This dessicated thyroid worked for me like none other and helped me return to wellness in late 2009. Since that time, I have taken ERFA with few problems until early 2014. I have noticed that it seems to be sensitive to temps and can expire early if I do not store it in a cool place in the warmer months of the year. I am disappointed that ERFA seems to be attributing 170 or so patient complaints to patient problems and apparently not investigating this thoroughly or if you have, communicating the specifics of that investigation. I have always looked to the Canadian Healthcare System and Canadian companies in general as good examples for our American system and company to follow. I sincerely hope I can continue to do so.
I am very much interested in viewing the results (please let me know whom/where to direct my inquires) of your investigation of the problem. I am also happy to sign a disclaimer as long as it is not a “gag” of sorts if I see problems that might affect my health or the health of other people. I am not interested in a lawsuit, I am interested in wellness as I have every right and responsibility to be. I await your response!
Angie Frye
Raleigh, NC
Nick
Great letter Angie. And what looks like an endorsement for batch LF03508A!
Anne
I like your letter Angie and it’s good to know that the latest batch you have may be ok. I too got an email from Dr Knafo this week asking for an update and if I had seen my GP. I was able to tell him much the same as you, that an older batch was working fine, so it’s not a sudden allergy to ERFA. Unfortunately my endocrinologist offered me a prescription for Armour only and I know I don’t get on with that any more, so I’m now on Thyroid-S, but would far prefer to get some decent ERFA. I have also found him to be helpful in the past and am glad that he’s contacting us again, it shows that he is concerned and does want to know if our blood tests show anything out of the ordinary, or if there is some rational explanation that applies to some of us. If it’s a question of incorrect storage of either the ingredients or the tablets somewhere, or a machine going haywire or not having being programmed correctly, he probably really doesn’t know and is as mystified as we are. I don’t think ERFA has been reformulated, the experiences different people are having don’t point to that, but I hope whatever has happened is discovered soon and we can get back to normal, meanwhile I hope you find your latest batch is good and we can all get some!
Evelyn Kjørstad
Well done Angie. Thank’s for keeping updates – ups – GREAT updates 🙂
Angie
All..after a few weeks on the batch # indicated, I am sorry to report that it is also causing me problems. While a day or so are okay, eventually I feel weak and shaky and have no ability to handle stress. Now before any jump in to talk to me about adrenals, I don’t think this is the issue as when I switch back to Nature-throid, I do not have this problem. I plan on reporting once more to Dr. Knafo. I have had no response to my above email at all. Including no response to my request for the investigation of the new product.
Angela
Has anyone switched over to Thyroid-S or Thiroyd successfully and which one works for you?
Sheryl
Angie, I too have switched from Erfa to WP and am not doing well. My doc ordered labs to see why I am not absorbing this stuff and wants me back on 60mg of Erfa 3x a day. I am hoping for a good batch. What’s my chances? Looking forward to your update.
Cathy
Hi !
I’m a patient and I have been treated with Erfa since November 2013. I was finally seeing results until I started a new bottle in late June… I have lost all appetite, my digestion is a mess, I can’t sleep, my head hurts like hell…
Unfortunately, my pharmacist doesn’t have any good batch for now, and doesn’t want me to return what I’ve bought, but I’m a student and I don’t have a lot of money, so it’s difficult for me to change meds like that (and I’m in Europe so I don’t have a lot of other options).
Do you think increasing the dosage with the batch I’m on could help ? If it’s a problem of coating causing a bad absorption, it could work right ?
I checked my iron and cortisol levels, iron is still a little low but better and increasing, and I was feeling quite fine before even with this level so I’m sure it can’t be it.
Please help me, I’m traveling for three weeks starting Monday and I’m desperate.
Cathy
Catarina
Cathy,
Increasing the dosage might help if, for whatever reason, the new pills absorb less well. Add half a grain and see how you feel. If it helps, you should feel the difference quickly. If you feel better, but not optimal, you can keep raising it until it relieves your symptoms. This could help if impaired absorption is the only reason you feel worse.
Trisha
Thanks for the feedback y’all. Whether it takes a year or not, I think it’s going to take some time still… there are too many batches out there that have been mentioned as falling short; batches of
30 mg, 60 mg, and 125 mg.
To me, it WON’T be cleared up until
no negative reports come in – period! Otherwise, it’s Russian Roulette, & good
medication & health CAN’T be a game of rolling the dice! Hang in there! I HOPE ERFA comes back, but only time will tell.
Angie
I have ordered a new batch with an expiration date of 2017. I will let you all know how I do. I am not doing that well on the WP. Do reasonably well on Nature-throid, but the fillers aggravate my diverticulitis and had an acute episode just a little over a week ago and had to switch back to the WP. I don’t seem to absorb the WP all that well. I am hoping that my new batch of ERFA is an improvement over the two batches I received early in 2014. If they are not, then I will report my concerns to Health Canada. My objective is not to sue anybody, but quite simply, wellness. I have pointed many thyroid users to ERFA as it used to be a superior product. Obviously I can not continue to do so if it performs poorly.
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, make sure your absorption issue isn’t more related to not being on enough NDT…or being here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Angie
Hey Janie: I’ve been a thyroid pt since 1996 and am aware of the iron and cortisol issues (also watch my RT3 and total T3 closely). Since I feel fine on the [older] Nature-throid at an equivalent dose (I chew it and take with a little juice) to the WP, don’t think “not enough” is the issue, but it certainly feels like not enough. Don’t know why I don’t do very well on the WP (West-throid)..should do fine, but I don’t. My more recent batch of N-T doesn’t feel like enough either..are we starting to see an issue overall with all dessicated? With the ERFA, my labs on the newer batches were all good, but didn’t feel well. Would switch back to the older N-T or the older ERFA that I had left and feel fine. Almost feels like perhaps one of the “trace amount” ingredients are missing OR there is a contamination issue. Again, will be trying a later expiry date batch of ERFA (should be here today or tomorrow) and will keep y’all posted..
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Angie. No, there are no problems with NDT overall. Just Erfa. That’s why I’m wondering if something has changed in you, like iron or cortisol. But I hope you figure it out soon!
Angie
Thanks, Janie..let’s keep our eyes and ears open. My later N-T (have never done well on WP) is on the weak side also. My “new” ERFA (expir date 2017) just came in the mail. We shall see!!!
Nick
It’s bad enough to be hypo, worse to find that we don’t respond to thyroxine, and then worse still, many of us seem to only do well on certain types of NDT, which (worse still) appear to change in quality from time to time. I’m never sure if I am more fatigued from being hypo, or for trying to manage it.
Trisha
Keep the updates coming!
For now, I returned my ERFA (unopened), am taking Armour temporarily for now (which I had),
but am planning to go to a private
physician to get a Rx for either
Acella NP, Westhroid WP, or BOTH!
ERFA must remain on hold until ALL
of this is resolved, which unfortunately,
I think is going to take close to a year – if at all? IF the latter, then ERFA has ruined their stellar history! Another good
horse down – what a shame!
This is beyond pathetic & a travesty what
we with hypothyroidism must endure &
navigate! A TOTAL SHAM!!!
Nick
I’m not sure if it will take a year Trish. If the LF03508 batch IS OK then we are good to go again. The only problem being how much of the ‘bad stuff’ is floating around pharmacies that they will expect us to use up first.
If ERFA users won’t accept the ‘bad stuff’ and find an alternative product, sales of ERFA will simply stagnate. I would have thought it good business sense for ERFA to pull all the ‘bad stuff’ sooner rather than later.
Just a thought; imagine if this had happened with all levothyroxine!
Angie
Nick, my new batch is 30 mg LF03508A, exp 2/2017. I’ll let you guys know how I do.
Nick
The very best of luck with that batch Angie.
Sandra
Delann,
You have a good suggestion that we go above Dr. Knafo and perhaps with Janie’s help we should move forward.
Janie, any suggestions? What about the newspapers here in Canada, or the companies shareholders? I’m sure they would like to know about the reason that their sales will decline.
Janie I’m curious, how did things turn out with respect to Armour in the end?
Dr Knafo,
If you are reading this, here is my reality.
Today I will drive 1 1/2 hours to see my brother who last past February broke his tibia in three places, developed compartment syndrome. He is a one man show marina operator, a mechanic and a volunteer fire captain along with running snow plow contracts in winter (plowing himself) and shovelling where necessary, snow. He has not walked since then except for a little on crutches as necessity and recently endured another operation to close up the wound but has to bed rest for two weeks to prevent the stitches from breaking the wound open.
He has very little help, cannot afford to have help and I planned to go see him to do whatever he needs to help but in my current state of low energy I don’t see myself of being of much help. I pray it changes that, that something changes with my energy today because all I want to do is help my brother, help my family.
You have robbed me of that.
I wonder, do you sleep well at night?
Sandra
Hi all,
I have started a new batch of pills 3 days ago, Lot LF03506A expiry Feb 2017 and won’t jump the gun but the following has happened, joint pain, fatigue and now stomach distress/issues. I fell asleep on the sofa last night which I never do and didn’t even make it for my regular walk as I usually do.
I will keep you posted.
shirley
This is all very very interesting. I have been on efra for years and have been doing very well UNTIL january of 2014. Since january my benign irregular heartbeat has gone out of control. Had all sorts of test and all came back negative. My cardiologist was willing to put me on a calcium beta blocker if I wanted to give it a try. I’m not a pill person so did not want to start taking this unless it was necessary. So, up until a week ago, I have been suffering with the irregualrity… it was getting worse every month. Since january I had taken cardiac PX that worked before however this time it was doing little to correct the irregularity. I began to test all supplements I was taking as well as any foods. Nothing worked. As a last resort and with the support of my naturalpath, I started reducing my efra and did begin to get some releief. I then had my thyroid test done and all was out of wack (because i had reduced it by a third ie took 60 instead of 90). My family doc convinced me to stop reducing and to go back to the 90. The irregularity came back as bad as ever. After finding your site I convinced my doc to switch me to USPP thyroid done up by a local pharmacy. I’ve been on this for just about a week and boy what a difference. It was almost instant. My heart is almost normal. I’m putting this out there because I know how concerned you can get when your metabolism is out of wack and your life gets out of sorts. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this or has found improvements by switching to a new brand? I’m on the USPP formula for the next month. I’ll let you know how things go, if anyone is interested. I’m thinking if after a month my irregularity is resolved that I will send an email to erfa to let them know and perhaps advise Health Canada. If this is an efra issue I wonder if legal action is required to get them to take action and/or to avoid others having to go through this? Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences and your expertice. Looking forward to future updates.
Nick
I’ve noticed a similar irregularity since about February this year (along with other symptoms of hypothyroidism). It’s something I had until I went on NDT about 7 years ago. I would like to see legal action against ERFA but I suspect that it would be a very long case, and difficult to actually prove anything.
Like Sarah, I am desperately awaiting developments on this issue. If I can’t get an alternative NDT through my NHS endo, I think that I will have to order some Thyroid or Thiroid-S from Thailand. We do need more reports about the batch LF03508 Exp. Feb 17 to see if the problem with ERFA has been resolved. I would prefer to stick with ERFA because it can be taken sublingually.
Sandra
Shirley,
Absolutely please do let us know how you are doing.
Sarah
Are there any recent updates? Does anyone know? This is really frustrating.
Sandra
Hi all,
I will be out of my current batch of 30 mg pills in 5 days that I have been feeling well on and the next batch that I will be picking up from pharmacy is
Lot LF03506A expiry Feb 2017.
Is anyone on this batch and feeling ok on it?
thanks!
Cynthia
Hi Sandra, are you getting your refill from Total Health Pharmacy on Davis Dr? I ask because when I called they said they were back-ordered.
Sandra
Hi Cynthia,
You are right, I did call and they said the same thing. Then I called another pharmacy I use for my testosterone, The Medicine Shoppe in Oshawa and I was going to see how I do on this batch before I let you know. She has lots of it though, said something like 3 bottles of 500 of the 30 mg.
Sandra
Hi Cynthia,
I have started the new batch and will let you know how I am doing in a week.
Cynthia
Thank you for keeping me updated.
Sandra
Hi Cynthia,
I have come to the conclusion that this batch is not as good, I have been having issues on and off of various hypo symptoms. I had my bloodwork done last week and will see in a couple of weeks but I don’t need bloodwork to tell me something is not right with this batch.
Nick
Sandra, I have a batch of LF3507A, expiry 02/17 that are not working. So I would be wary of LF3506A. LF3508A is the batch that has been reported as working OK..
Pharmarama in the UK have LF3508A in stock but will not sell it until all their stocks of LF3507A are gone. After all profits are far more important than people’s health. 😉
I guess we need a way of all UK ERFA users coming together to make some sort of legal challenge.
Sandra
Thanks Nick, I guess I have to take a chance and see, I won’t get much filled this time, just a pain as it is a 45 minute drive to get there to go back if it works and I need more.
My other option is to call everywhere and find my current batch.
So you are saying that they deny a person who request a certain batch/lot!!!!!? That is just down right ridiculous. Since there is really nothing wrong and 10,000 patients on “Thyroid” and just 75 of us sick then what is the problem since it may only be a few who want a certain batch!
I would not settle for that, call who ever you have to to get the right batch.
waveylines
I emailed Dr Knafo again to ask him why i had become so ill on Erfa after three years of feeling good on it. He emailed very promptly back and said the following:-
” In deed I did not receive your last emails. Therefore I am sorry for the late reply. I am happy to hear that you are feeling better in WP Thyroid. The investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication, however, I am still monitoring patients and complaints.
From my experience there is a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality. ”
Anyone heard of developing problems with a specific NDT when well established on it -when vitamins and minerals are good, adrenals too? I can’t find anything on this -have looked. And why would I improve by switching brands – on WP Thyroid -although I am still crashing if I do physical activity for any length of time -but then I haven’t been well for months and only been on WP for 10days….!!.
Am confused -any thoughts anyone?
Thank you again for the follow up and I wish you a good health.
Dianne
“From my experience there is a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality.”
Argh. All I can is, when I took the tablets from the two bad batches I tried (and felt like I was dying), and then took tablets from the old stock that I was able to find, I felt immediately better (back to the ‘norm’ for me) on the old stock. So, that ‘explanation’ from Dr. Knafo is not valid.
Angie
I agree with Dianne..and where is Janie? This is a ridiculous explanation from Dr. Knafo and lessens him in my opinion. Like Dianne, I went back and forth from the OLD ERFA to the NEW ERFA and experienced problems on the batches obtained in early 2014. It is not a sudden inability on my part to take ERFA, if that were so I could not have taken the older meds. It is a DIFFERENCE in the medication itself. I have sent several emails now to Dr. Knafo that have not been responded. to. Coupled with the above and the openness to show the results of the investigation and testing only if one traveled to Toronto makes me entirely suspicious. I have a batch that will expire in 2017..will check lot #”s, etc. If this is also a bad batch, I will report both them and The Canadian Pharmacy to Health Canada and my doc here in the USA.
Delann
Waveylines, my thoughts on that email are the following:
To Quote Dr. Knafo that: “The investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication; however, I am still monitoring patients and complaints. From my experience there are a few patients that don’t tolerate the medication even after years of treatment. I cannot explain why but this is a reality. ” …
If, “the investigation didn’t reveal anything wrong with the medication…..then what is wrong with a POST of the essay showing it for all of us to see? Also, I for one would like to see posted documents and evidence from research and case studies that show that his “reality” statement is true! Not just his “say so”. I would like to know what patients he is monitoring and from where, his office? Or, from a blog site such as this one with people he has never met personally, did any personal testing on, or interviewed face to face in an office with questions and answers as to their symptoms, because I am NOT HIS patient! (However, I “was a customer”). Or, as the medical director of a pharmaceutical company is he implying that he has a personal practice also with Hypothyroid patients of whom he is seeing and they TOO are having difficulties on any brand of NDT? What evidence is he backing that statement of “this is a reality” with? He states (from HIS experience) “that there are a few people who do not tolerate the NDT after years of treatment and that is a Reality”? What experience, please. I ask you all reading this, what “few patients” would tolerate a med for “YEARS of treatment” that wasn’t working!!! That is contrary to all reason or common sense!
I say he should start producing a whole bundle of research studies, and documentations to back up some of the statements he has been making since the up rise of complaints with these non working batches of thyroid meds and quit shooting out statements like that and own up to the facts that this med is messed up and responsibility lies at his and the companies door!
In his earlier response to Janie above on this page he says “that each person complaining should be handled on an individual basis with their doctors to consider “other variables” Well guess what I HAVE considered other variables and since there are no other variables in my personal life that have changed, the variables I am considering (that I am aware of) are: 1. the change in Erfa manufacture plant and 2. New pressing machines, 3. A possible cover up in the Erfa Company that they are not admitting to from spotty mismanaged quality control and oversight with in that company with those changes.
He doesn’t fool me with his glossed over double talking, no proof explanations, said, no doubt, from the perspective of, “protect my job” point of view. We all here on this blog site, as well as people on other sites, know that something went wrong with the making of this thyroid medication since the move of their company and the beginning of 2014 PERIOD! Maybe we should all be directing or concerns to the C.E.O, or president of this Erfa Company instead of Dr. Knafo?
A through and independent investigation should be started immediately as to prevent harm to many that may still be ingesting these pills because they have no choice and holding on to maybe, just maybe the pills have enough of an element of t3/t4 in them that is working just enough to keep them half way functioning, while suffering weakening, symptoms that could be related to contamination, change in additives or filler, tablet coatings or low quality pig thyroid powder, or who knows what! It is truly frustrating me that they are not investigating this matter seriously.
We all have a right to quality of life and not to settle for such condescending remarks comments, and statements that are coming from the medical “director” Dr. Knafo as facts that are unproven, and short on truth of what is really going on within that company! Fact is, they had a product that served us all well for years until the beginning of 2014. You simply do not tell this many hypothyroid people that are complaining that “nothing is wrong” on Erfa’s end of things! We all know that it worked very well at one time, and now it is not and that, Dr. Knafo, is REALITY!
Janie Bowthorpe
Major Bravo!
Nick
I get my ERFA through the NHS, and fortunately don’t have to pay for it. But that means getting it prescribed by my endo, who then sends the prescription to the hospital pharmacy, who in turn order it from this company called Pharmarama.
So I don’t actually get to talk to either the hospital pharmacy or the supplier. As such the ERFA supplies come in order of the batch date and number, and the hospital pharmacy has to accept them unless there is official recognition that something is wrong with a batch. So while ERFA continue to deny that there is any problem, patients in my position have to accept what they give us.
Cynthia
I just called Total Health Pharmacy in Newmarket, the one on Davis Dr. and they are back ordered for ERFA. If I recall earlier comments said someone got a batch with 2017 expiry date and was doing well. And now they can’t get any, whats going on? Did ERFA realize they had bad batches (without admitting it of course) and now have adjustments to make? Why the shortage, I thought the whole reason of moving production to Spain was to keep up with demand.
Stephanie
Let’s hope they are quietly fixing the problem. They can’t admit that there is a problem with any of the batches for liability reasons.
Trisha
Hi,
I just wanted to thank you Anne, Waveylines, and you all for your helpful responses. I have decided to forgo on ERFA at this juncture as it is simply too risky at this time… unless AND UNTIL this whole thing gets resolved, even IF it takes a year!
It’s just too risky in terms of health &
money right now – period! I am going
to likely go with the new Westhroid-P,
and we’ll see about Acella (not as readily
accessible or available)!
This indeed is yet another BIG setback for us ALL, & quite frankly, I wish those
responsible for all this, could just get a TASTE of the outright havoc that we go through on a daily basis affecting our
baseline functioning, productivity & livelihood because of these endless, pathetic hoops we have to jump through
from corporate foul play, lack of
integrity, or regard for humanity! It’s disgraceful.
I would like to suggest that all of us who
have lost faith in ERFA, and/or jumped ship for now… write Dr. Knafo directly to inform him!
Ultimately & certainly over time, ERFA
will see a drop in sales, so their stellar
history is about to take an undeniable hit!
Meanwhile, I think you Canadians should unite for more options!!!
Also, I would love to hear from anyone out there on Acella… WHERE do you
reside and WHERE (from what pharmacies are you obtaining your Acella?? I reside in California, & I know of someone in VA, and IT does NOT seem readily or easily available. So your input could help shed some light for us all.
My sincere thanks & encouragement to
everyone!
Sandra
Delann,
Well spoken!!!! This should not be the end of it as you say. To those of us in Canada, our options to change to another source are limited so it would be a blessing if things were to go back to what they were.
Does anyone know why Erfa is the only dessicated thyroid available to us north of the border?
Cynthia
I would be interested in that answer as well. T3 only is not working for me and need to switch back to NDT as soon as possible.
Dianne
I agree, very well said, Delann. Why do I feel like our heartfelt pleas are falling on deaf ears, though?
And like the other Canadians here, I’d also like to know why more options for ndt are not available here. How can ERFA corner the market? It’s a scary thought since ERFA doesn’t seem to really care about what has happened here, especially knowing that Canadians have no other choice but ERFA. Sounds like we’re hostage.
Delann
What the heck was I putting in my body that was making me sick again with hypo symptoms Erfa? What HAVE I been ingesting?
Some of my thoughts and questions are…. IF indeed the Erfa formula has not changed (or even if it has) since the beginning of 2014 …. 1. I think the tablets were perhaps not pressed correctly along with the addition of a new coating?: 2. Machines maybe were not cleaned properly in between different manufacturing of different products, contamination or coatings from other products still in vat? 3. Un- skilled workers using brand new pressing machines were not familiar with procedure or operations? 4. An entirely different coating more suitable for a new pressing machine was applied to the Erfa pills? And all of his could have bearing on the lack of potency or the blocking of the thyroid hormone in our cells, digestions and conversions? Or, simply put, someone was a sleep at the wheel of the whole manufacturing move without oversight by appropriate people in charge of quality control?
From my research: Quote in part: “Many tablets today are coated after being pressed. Modern tablet coatings are polymer and polysaccharide based, with plasticizers and pigments included. Tablet coatings must be stable and strong enough to survive the handling of the tablet, must not make tablets stick together during the coating process, and must follow the fine contours of embossed characters or logos on tablets.”
Note: we can clearly see from the above side by side photos that the “new” pills are shiner, deeper embossed, and have darker pigment and some reporting harder.
Quote: “The tablet press is an essential piece of machinery for any pharmaceutical manufacturer. Tablet presses must allow the operator to adjust the position of the lower and upper punches accurately, so that the tablet weight, thickness and density can each be controlled. Pharmaceutical tablet presses are required to be easy to clean and quick to reconfigure with different tooling, because they are usually used to manufacture many different products. There are 2 main standards of tablet tooling used in pharmaceutical industry: American standard ‘TSM’ and European standard ‘EU’. TSM and EU configurations are similar to each other but cannot be interchanged.” End of Quotes from my research.
With that information keep in mind, Erfa HAS eluded to 2 changes within the company; new pressing machine, and the moving of the manufacturing facility from Belgium to Spain. I personally don’t know, but questions I have are, what standard of the above the Spain facility uses with this “new pressing machine?” What did Belgium use with the “old pressing machine” What coatings were used in Belgium plant? What coating is being used in the Spain plant? “Similar but cannot be interchanged” is the phrase I’m questioning here. Also along with, the coatings of “polymer, polysaccharide, plasticizers and pigments, what the heck did Erfa use on these new pills? If some different coating was used, perhaps therein lays the sickness from the new pills? I don’t know.
However, I’d be surprised if there weren’t some quality control issues along the way in ALL departments of this company’s move, from the worker mixing up the pig powder to adding in the additives/fillers to the person pulling the lever on the pressing machine to decision to us a new coating and All this that will never be reported to the customers under any circumstances for fear of legal retaliation from patients I suspect.
With complaints flooding in recent months maybe just Maybe a THROUGH INVESTIGATION SHOULD have been done from start to finishing of the thyroid tablets in the manufacturing process!!! Then report the results from ALL THAT TESTING, along with the posting for all of us to see from the independent formula analysis, supposedly done, (remember all we have is Erfa saying so’s and if they had nothing to hide what’s wrong with pdf’n the report in a post?) When this many people start complaining about a thyroid treatment that has served them well by elevating hypo symptoms and now doesn’t since beginning of year, and only one thing was looked into and reported by the company “no change in formulation” and we get told to revisit our doctors because it must be us, then TRUST is broken.
We patients know when something “ain’t” right with our bodies from the reactions and symptoms we experience in life when taking ANY medication and in this case these “new” Erfa thyroid tablets ARE/and HAVE BEEN the cause of our return of hypothyroid conditions. To me this is Gross negligence on the part of Erfa to report that nothing is wrong with their product when clearly we know there is. AND to now ride off into the sunset with no public announcement to patients, doctors, and pharmacist of ANY kind (that I’m currently aware of) in addressing this situation, in my opinion is a “cover up” of a “goof up” within the companies operations! And who loses in this situation? Both; Us the thyroid patients with ill health and Erfa in loss of sales as we all scramble to find something else that WORKS! Right?
In conclusion, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I started WP thyroid last week and so far I’m feeling much better! So, Goodbye Erfa to your lack of dedication to your customer’s health by doing EVERYTHING possible to address, find, and correct the problems which have been reported to you in way of symptoms by so many on your thyroid pill since the beginning of the year 2014.. What have you done differently to the thyroid pills? WHAT have we been ingesting into our bodies with your pills that are causing illness! And only a through investigation into all aspects of your manufacturing is going to give all answers.
And to all my fellow hypo thyroid people, I wish you all the best of health and happiness! And to NEVER have to go through a situation like this EVER again once you find another method of treating your hypo condition!
Greta
Janie, are there any news from Dr. Knafo?
Trisha
Trisha
July 4, 2014
Hi,
Can anyone comment or report any up to date info / results of either of these two ERFA batches – Both of 125 mg tabs + 500 Tablets:
Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015
Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016
Sincere thanks & best to our of us for
our perseverance and courage!! 🙂
THANK YOU!!!
Anne
Trisha I’ve just replied to your previous message about this, sorry not to have seen it sooner – I had problems with a 500 jar of the 125mg 13C06 expiry 3/2016 as did several others. We all bought them from different pharmacies in different countries. Dr Kanfo says it was made in the old factory in Belgium not the new one in Spain and that nothing is wrong with it. I had immediate allergic-type reactions and upset stomach taking it, he suggested I had become allergic to the ingredients, but I am fine on an older batch! I have made a gradual switch to Thyroid-S which was the quickest to get and seems to suit me. As others are saying WP Thyroid is similar to the ‘old’ ERFA and ‘old’ Armour, I may go over to that eventually as there are rather a lot of fillers in Thyroid-S
waveylines
yes Trisha _ I agree with Ann -have had major problems with lot 13C06 expiry date 3/2016…..
Trisha
Hi,
Can anyone report any up to date comments Re: either if these two
ERFA batches – both of 125 mg tabs,
500 Tablets.
THANK YOU!!!
Trisha
Waveylines,
I MORE than understand. Where if at all can one purchase it? And can one without a Rx? Hope to hear from you! TrishaLHogan@yahoo.com
Big thanks!
Cynthia
Canadians, what are our options? I switched to T3 only after I read Janie’s previous post. Doing better, but not great, I was on T3 only a couple of years ago and didn’t work well for me then. Considering a small circadian dose of synthroid, starting at 25 mcg. Other than that I don’t know what to do. I want to get back on desiccated as soon as possible, much like everyone else.
Sandra
So is this it with Erfa? Are we stuck not knowing why so many are sick on different batches? I am feeling better as long as my current batch lasts but then…. who knows with the next. How can they do this to us and get away with it?
Dianne
Good questions, Sandra. Looks like as far as ERFA is concerned, they seem to have no further comment. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Marjaana from Finland
Lucky some of you, in Finland our only options are Erfa or Armour. Or synthetic T4… Not good at all. Doing very
ill now, I cant start/buy another batch until I know they will work. This current one doesnt. 🙁
Sandra
Hi Marjaanna,
You can try thyroid-s that is from Thailand and see if they will ship to you as another option that I too am looking into as we don’t have options here in Canada as well.
Google it to find it and they have a facebook page too.
Nick
Just a reminder that this issue is already quite confusing. When people talk about getting a batch of ERFA , it would probably make things clearer if they stated which country it came from.
I’m still confused about EFRA. Do they make it ALL in Europe, or is some made in Canada?
I’m on the point of emailing my endo to ask if I can have some liothyronine (T3) as the EFRA I have here isn’t doing anything and I am so ill.
waveylines
Hi Nick Some is made in Canada and some is made in Europe…that is my understanding…
I am also am poorly on the last two batches of Erfa that I have had so -have switched brands -end of my my first day on WP Thyroid -and already the pain is lessening -was not expecting that to happen so quickly….but it is too early to say -might be a placebo effect. I am taking the same dose I would on Erfa. Sadly though switching brands was a step too far for my doctor so looks like I am on my own and once again back to buying it myself. My doctor was fine with me carrying on taking Erfa though even though it was making me so ill! Lol;. I am beyond caring so long as I get better I will buy WP myself……..
Angie
ERFA is made entirely in Spain, the old manufacturing plant was in Belgium. Nick, no need to be confused..Manufacturing in Spain started in Dec.
Nick
Thanks Angie, So batch numbers are the same for all of irrespective of where we live.
I’m still awaiting a reply from my(NHS) endo about what he proposes to do. I can’t hassle him because he’s the only person in the NHS who has actually done anything for me in over 30 years.
I am considering trying to buy some Thyroid-S or Thiroid from Thailand.
Delann
Waveylines, I too switched from Erfa to WP thyroid. It has been 7 days and I feel good so far!
Sarah
I’m really pleased you’re feeling good on WP. THYROID. I’ve switched to it too from ERFA and so far so good. I just wish I could get it from a pharmacy in the UK. I have to order online from the US.
waveylines
Oh thankyou Sarah and Delann -good to hear the WP is working for you both. i am on day three now and feeling better -definitely improving which is a relief. Sarah are you in the uk? If so you can buy it from the Uk if you have prescription whether NHS or private -go onto Thyroid Uk they have a list of sources. Without a prescription you have to buy it abroad….
I found a letter to my thyroid specialist listing the symptoms that occurred when I went on new reformulated Armour thyroid back in 2011 -they were exactly the same as what I have experienced for the last 6 months on Erfa…. back then in 2011 my symptoms resolved when I went onto Erfa -three years ago…
Caz
Sarah, you can order it form Greenhey Pharmacy in Skelmersdale, UK
zai
Hi everybody is there same one who can help me . I was on Erfa and was doing great , but Icouldn’t get more an til August. So switch to Armour they said it the same but I am not feeling well I feeling hypo again. I am taking the same dose so I am asking if anyone has tried the same and what to do thanks zai
Janie Bowthorpe
Zai, two ideas: have you tried raising the Armour? That might do the trick. Second, if raising doesn’t help, may be time to check adrenals and iron levels.
Sandra
Has anyone switched to Thyroid-S from thailand? I am just wondering if you have and have you had success feeling better on it.
Also I believe it has lactose as an ingredient and although I am not lactose intolerant but am dairy sensitive and wasn’t sure if anyone else who is the same has tolerated it?
Anne
Yes I have switched to Thyroid-S, I’d prefer not to take it because it has a lot of fillers, but it seems to suit me and so I’ll continue with it for a while. I am casein intolerant and possibly lactose intolerant – it’s been difficult to distinguish the two – but have not had any problems with the lactose in Thyroid-S.
janella brown
After all the recent problems with Erfa I will now be looking a buying a different NDT and am considering NP Thyroid by Acella. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or recommendations on others? I live in the UK.
Janie Bowthorpe
NP Thyroid is a great product, Janella!
janella brown
Yes Janie, I have been reading about NP Thyroid and will probably go with this one. I understand it has the least fillers which is what I want as have a lactose intolerance.
Roberta
I have been following the Erfa story with great interest, having been through the Armour debacle and been on Erfa ever since. My latest lots have been working for me, with verification by fT3 and fT4 labs. Lots are:
60 mg lot 12J011 exp 10/2015
30 mg lot 13C011 exp 03/2016
I hope this info can help somebody.
Angie
Roberta:
Thanks..these exp dates are likely from the old factory and okay. Manufacturing dates and expiration respectively from the new factory (and problematic lots) appear to start with Dec/Jan 2014 and exp around 10/2016.
Angie
Hi Lori…I would need to know the expiration date. I stopped Canada Drugs from shipping me a 10/2016 batch just in time.
Trisha
Angie, you stated that: “I already have a batch with expiration dates of 10/2016 that was unsatisfactory.”
Can you tell us please what Dosage,
Quantity of tablets in the bottle, & WHAT the Lot # was of that batch that you report as being instatisfactory?
Thank you!
Angie
Trisha: I have 2 batches from that manufacturing timeframe. BOTH were unsatisfactory. Was unable to obtain lot #’s for one of the two..for all I know it could be the same batch or not. The 2nd was 30 mg tabs Lot LF03117A. Supposed to be sealed container..not sure that it was. Do not purchase anything from this lot. Within 2-3 days I am ill from trying to take it and I have tried it, under different circumstances, several times.
Shirley
Interesting Angie. This is the same lot number I just had filled and I have had to stop due to unreal heart palpations. As noted previously, I have switched brands and after 10 days on the new prescription my palpatations have almost disappeared. FYI
Angie
Hello again, Shirley: The 2 batches including the lot # that gave you (and me) problems caused me to feel very ill. I did have palps, which I don’t normally have, but felt hypo. My labs were fine, if even a little on the high side for me, but something was wrong. In addition, I felt a heavy chest feeling and a fatigue so profound I felt like I was seriously ill. I saw my primary care doc and I told him how badly I felt. He knows I am not given to histrionics. I will not take any ERFA from either of the two batches I received early this year again. I just rec’d a new batch with a lot # that others say they’ve done well on..We shall see. Watch my comments as I plan to keep everybody informed.
Shirley
Hi Angie. I too felt that I was seriously ill and I spent alot of time in bed due to the severe fatigue. I had many nights when I was concerned about going to sleep. Thinking that I might have the “big one” overnight. Had never felt that way before. Look forward to hearing how you do on the new batch.
Angie
Hi Shirley: Early indications are that this batch feels a little more like I am used to. However, it does seem to be a little on the weak side..only on for the 3rd day now, so we shall see and I will definitely keep you posted!
Angie
I would like to know, from those that have ERFA expiration dates of 2017, from what pharmacy were they able to obtain same? I refuse to deal with The Canadian Pharmacy again and Canada Drugs states that they have no lots with expiration dates beyond 10/2016 (manufactured Dec 2013). I already have a batch with expiration dates of 10/2016 that was unsatisfactory.
Sandra
Hi Angie,
I just bought the last of what they have 204 pills of 30 mg and the expiry was 2017. My pharmacy is Total Health Pharmacy on Davis Drive in Newmarket Ontario. I started them today and will see how I do over the next couple of days.
I had a days worth of my old pills (no shine, no idea what lot or expiry they were from) and felt better by afternoon yesterday when I took them and not feeling to badly today.
Angie
Thanks, Sandra..do you have any idea if THP would ship to the US?
Sandra
They are a local pharmacy but you could always give them a try to see if they would mail to you. They would have to have ordered in a new batch of 30mg as I took the last of what they had so it’s a roll of the dice what they will get when the reorder right?
I will be in the same boat not sure what I will get when I have to reorder.
So far I am feeling better on them.
Cynthia
Keep us updated. I would really like to go back on desiccated. On cytomel now.
Lori T
Angie I bought mine online, it was from a company in the UK. I wasn’t sure if they’d ship to Canada successfully but it was okay. I’m not sure if they would let you know the expiry date before shipping ( I imagine they would though), I found out about the bad batches three days after I ordered them! I lucked out 🙂
Kelly
Lori did you buy them from IAS? That is who I usually order from. If so then I am ordering some today.
Lori T
Yes I did Kelly.
Sarah
Today I have picked up a new batch of ERFA
LF 03072A. Expires 10/16
has anyone had this batch and had problems with them?
Trisha
Hi Y’all,
I appreciate everyone’s feedback & concern. I suffered greatly from the Armour reformulation fiasco, having to
navigate my way… very costly!!! Thus,
this is very disturbing.
I finally got back on ERFA six months
ago & am now building my ferriten level,
& had just begin to make my biggest turnaround in YEARS!!
However, I now have less than five days of ERFA left & am using a reserve of Armour which I don’t want to do! My dilemma is whether or not to chance reordering some ERFA or not? I don’t have the funds at present to see a private physician to request a Rx for Westhroid-P or Acella NP. But IF I get
a good ERFA batch – I’m set for a year!
Has ANYONE out there tried either of these two ERFA lot numbers: ERFA 125 mg tabs, 500 Tabs, Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015. OR Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016.
I would LOVE to have any feedback
re: these above; good or bad? * Especially if your experience was indisputably notable given a prior
experience of excellent ERFA – such that comparatively, there is no doubt!
Thank you & sincere thanks!!
Trisha
Hi Y’all,
I appreciate everyone’s feedback & concern. I suffered greatly from the Armour reformulation fiasco, having to
navigate my way… very costly!!! Thus,
this is very disturbing.
I finally got back on ERFA six months
ago & am now building my ferriten level,
& had just begin to make a turnaround!
However, I now only have less than five days of ERFA left & am using a reserve of Armour which I don’t want to do! My dilemma is whether or not to chance reordering some ERFA or not? I don’t have the finds at present to see a private
physician to request a Rx for Westhroid-P or Acella NP. If I get a good ERFA batch I’m set for a year!
Has ANYONE out there tried either of these two ERFA lot numbers: ERFA 125 mg tabs, 500 Tabs, Lot #: 12H021 EXP. 8-31-2015. OR Lot #: 13C06 EXP. 3-31-2016.
I would LOVE to have any feedback
re: these above; good or bad? * especially if your experience was indisputably notable given a prior
experience of excellent ERFA – such that comparatively, there is no doubt!
Thank you & sincere thanks!!
Anne
Hi Trisha,
Several of us have had problems with the 125mgs 13C06 expiry 03/2016. Mine were in a jar of 500, we’ve all got them from different pharmacies in different countries. According to Dr Knafo that lot number was manufactured in the old plant in Belgium not the new one in Spain, and he says there is nothing at all wrong with them, nevertheless I had an immediate allergic-type reaction to them which I have never had to ERFA in the past and I have been taking it since 2011. He then suggested I had become allergic to something in ERFA, but when I went back to an older jar I was fine again. I have now made a gradual switch to Thyroid-S which seems good. I have no doubt at all that something is wrong with that lot number, it may be an ingredient or it may have been stored wrongly somewhere, which would explain why more people aren’t complaining about it.
Marilyn Borley
I have just come on here to do a little research for myself and discovered that I am not alone. wow! I also just came back from seeing my doctor today who is sending me for blood tests tomorrow. My depression and hypo symptoms have returned. I have been on natural thyroid now for 4 years. A while back I got my prescription filled and I noticed right away that the pills had changed. I came on the internet to try and find out if Erfa had changed any of the ingredients as I have severe allergies. I could not find any information at all…none. I couldn’t even find an English web sight. So by reading on here I see that there is a severe problem with this company. I am appalled at their secrecy and lies. We know that they have changed it up on us! We know Erfa!! Not sure what it is we can do about this. I feel sick about it. Here I am having to get more testing done when it all has to do with Erfa. Wait till I tell my doctor!
Angie
Marilyn: Please make sure you report lot # and problems to Dr. Henri Knafo at ERFA Canada…
Marilyn Borley
HI Angie,
Please let me know how I can get in touch with Dr. Henri Knafo at Erfa, do you have an e-mail address for him? (Maybe it’s on here and I missed it) I don’t know where to get the lot # from as there isn’t one on my prescription bottle?
Angie
The email address is given early in the blog. Please let me know if you don’t find it and I’ll retrieve from my email [direct] correspondence with him.
Marilyn Borley
thanks Angie
Sandra
Does any know or has anyone been able to find out if we can order Thiroyd or thyroid-s by Greater Pharma Manufacturing into Canada?
thank you
Samirah
Hi Sandra, yes we can order Thiroyd and Thyroid-S into Canada. Email me at sammi_261186@hotmail.com and I will give you the info that I know 🙂
Sandra
thank you!
I am at work today so will email you tonight when I’m home.
Sandra
Today is a different day, I’m home from work, too exhausted after a night of sleep. I then realized today that I did not take enough of the 30 mg pills to equal the dose I was taking in 60 mg pills and was ended up taking 30 mg less. It could be the reason I don’t feel good today but in my anxiousness decided to get the compounded prescription filled with clear instructions of what I want them to use and the amounts based on the information Janie has provided to us under thyroid treatments. The pharmacist told me he can only fill it with synthetic T3 and T4 and it would cost $200.00 for 120 pills. I said I didn’t want synthetic and would like to fill only a weeks worth of compounded. He said that he could not fill a small amount as he as to source and order in a certain amount and if I didn’t want a full prescription then he would be stuck with it, (which I understood). He also said it would be more expensive than the synthetic.
So is synthetic the issue or is the T4 only the issue but a T4/T3 combo possibly ok?
Angie
Sandra: Your lot # is the same as Lori’s that she reports she is doing okay on. You may want to give it a little time.
Sandra
Hi Angie,
Thanks for telling me this and noticing that. You are too kind.I am going to get as many of them as I can now, I know it could be wasted money if they don’t work but if they do then it will be a blessing. So Lori wrote on the comments here that she was doing ok on batch LF03508A 2017 expiry?
thanks
w
Angie
Sandra..Lori wrote, some days ago, that the batch # in question she was doing okay on. If you scroll back in the comments on this blog, you will find her post. The best way to find out if she has continued to do well is to ask her directly.
Sandra
thanks again Angie,
Lori T
Sandra I am still doing fine on them, no change whatsoever from my previous pills. 🙂
Sandra
That is great news! I seem to be doing ok on them too, fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for your reply Lori.
Sandra
Hi,
Late this afternoon, by some miracle was able to get an appt today by someone elses cancellation with my doctor to tell him that since I started my newest batch about a week ago have been seriously hypo. Before I went I called another pharmacy to find out that they had a batch of 30 mg LF03508A expirty 2017 and decided to get three days worth as I’d already spent money on 280 60 mg pills and didn’t want to waste money if this batch didn’t work. I sent my husband to go get them for me and drive me to my appointment as I was sheer exhausted from doing nothing on my day off and ovewhelmed by the thought of the 45 minute drive. I took the new pills before I left and
shortly after my appointment I started to feel my exhaustion lift, my depression disappeared and my mood and energy completely change!! I also crushed the pills between two spoons and put it under my tongue.
I am not going to jump the gun until I see how I do tomorrow when I go to work but will definitely report back.
If it is working then I plan to get as much of those 30 mg pills before they run out. Back up plan is that my doctor has given me a prescription for compounded thyroid and if I need to will use it even though it is more than I can afford to pay but it is either that or back to thinking of quitting my job, which is not an option financially.
Janie, my doctor also gave you high praises for your wonderful website being the greatest compilation of useful thyroid information out there on the internet!!! Thank you again!
Sandra
Hi,
I have gone down hill since starting a 60 mg batch lot LF03139A exp 10 2016 and they are the shiny pills. I called my pharmacy to see if they have any both 30 or 60 pills expiry 2017 to see if it is a better batch and they have a batch that are from 2017 but are shiny but she said that both the 60’s and the 30’s are on back order!!!
So not only do we have to worry about the formula but we have to worry about getting our prescriptions filled too!
Angie
Sandra: I have a 30 mg batch exp 10/2016. Did not do well on them. Very interesting that the meds are back ordered with manufacturing replenishing maneuvers early 2014. Wonder if there was a problem and ERFA is maybe starting from scratch? See my “guinea pig” posts and followups to Janie.
Nick
Reading all the latest posts on this subject, it appears that the latest batches of ERFA COULD be OK. I’ve got a batch LF03507A (02/17) but am not yet feeling as well as I did in January/February. BUT, given that many of us may have been taking ERFA that doesn’t work, for months now, I wonder how soon we could actually expect to feel any improvement if these latest batches are OK.
I hope that everybody will continue to report back here in order that we can get a clear picture of what is actually happening with ERFA. As we all no, other factors can affect us, so knowing how others are getting along with the same medication is very useful.
waveylines
This is from Dr Lowe in the USA -thought it might be of interest -please note what he says for re-occurance of symptoms on medication, Hopefully Dr Knafo will see this:-
http://web.archive.org/web/20101030194420/http://drlowe.com/QandA/askdrlowe/t4therapy.htm
“If you’re new to the use of thyroid hormone, and you’re up to a dose that should be working for you, but you’re not benefiting from it, be sure to let your doctor and your pharmacist know. The dosage range that’s safe and effective for most patients is between 2-to-4 grains (120-to-240 mg) of desiccated thyroid. The equivalent dosage range for T4 is 200-to-400 mcg (0.2-to-0.4 mg). If you’re not improving within this dosage range, you may have thyroid hormone resistance, or the potency of the tablets or capsules you’re using may be lower than what’s stated on the label.
If your thyroid hormone product was prescribed, the bottle containing the pills or capsules will have a batch number. Your pharmacist will probably replace your thyroid hormone tablets or capsules with others from another batch. If you’re using an over-the-counter product such as Nutri-Meds desiccated thyroid, the bottle won’t have a batch number, but you can ask the company to replace the capsules or tablets your currently using.
If thyroid hormone has effectively relieved your hypothyroid or thyroid hormone resistance symptoms, but some of your symptoms have reappeared, you should consider whether the capsules or tablets your presently using have a lower-than-stated potency. You should let your doctor and pharmacist know the symptoms that have recurred. It will also help to have objective evidence, such as a decreased basal body temperature. Your doctor may find that your Achilles reflex that had become normal with thyroid hormone therapy has become slow again. And you may find that your basal temperature is decreased. If your TSH level was within the reference range, it may now be much higher now. Also, if your free T3 level was within the reference range, it may be much lower now”
Dianne
Not to mention that if you feel like a sledge hammer hit you over the head after taking one tablet, then that means something is wrong with the medication!
Angie
Dianne..I enjoyed your post. Just want to point out that my levels of T3 and T4 were fine on the “new” ERFA. I have seen posts from others where that was not the case. However, something was wrong. Of course, T1 and T2 nor calcitonin was measured. Nor did I do any toxicity panels. I had a severe fatigue, a heavy chest feeling, and felt so badly, as I told my primary, I would not have been surprised for him to tell me to put my affairs in order. Interestingly enough, though levels were good (even a little higher than I like them to be), I had no tendon reflex even with the hand-grasping maneuver…hmmmmm…
Christine
Where can I buy good Armour online? Please email me and let me know. selam@nym.hush.com Doctors do not prescribe enough to take away my symptoms.
Mirjam
Correction to my earlier post: The new Thyroid was 13G051 exp. 07 2016.
Marjaana
sorry Mirjam, did no read above :-), airhead…
Mirjam
Hi, first of all, thank you for the blog! I write from Finland. I have been on Thyroid many years after changing from Armour because there was some changes in composition of Armour. In May I started 13G051 exp. 07 2015. I immediately noticed that tablets were extremely hard, and in one or two week I was again extremely tired. I was wondering what was happening and I also wrote email to this Dr. Knafo. He informed me that they have not changed the composition of Thyroid. Thanks to your blog I found out that also other patients have had problems with these new Thyroid tablets. Also some other Finnish patients has had problems with these new tablets. I am tired with these thyroid problems and problems with medications. Also in Finland it is very very difficult to get help from doctors because here in Finland only official medications is called Thyroxin. Also here we have only Armour or Thyroid, not anything else.
Marjaana
Terve, hello Mirjam. I have same lot 13G051 exp 07/2016 (you have exp 2015, it’s 2016?) and these don’t work. My friend have
lot LF03139B EXP10/2016 and it doesnt work eighter. These pills are 60 mg/500 pcs. This is so f***xx frustrating!
Tammy
I’m just now hearing about the Erfa Thyroid change. I have been taking it since the Armour reformulation with good results. I still have enough to last until beginning of next year. I have not had any problems with what I have on hand right now. None of my bottles have lot numbers or expirations dates on them. I have been getting my refills from Universal Drugstore. I just got another script from my doctor & glad I have not filled it yet. Don’t need 500 pills of crap that don’t work. I hope there is a solution to the problem before I need a refill. Is the Armour back to where you can take it sublingually or is it still like it was when they made the change? You could not take it sublingually any longer on the last refill I had. If Erfa does not solve the problem I will have to switch but have not idea if I should switch back to Armour or something else. I finally signed up for STTM emails so I’m looking forward to an email saying Erfa has solved the problem. What else is everyone taking since this change has occurred? Don’t these companies know if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Janie Bowthorpe
FROM JANIE: I heard from Dr. Knafo this morning, and out of respect to him, I’m not going to print his entire email. But what I will state is that he continues to state that “there was no change in formulation or method of manufacturing. All the reports revealed that the medication is within normal specs.” You can also read between the lines of what he might have said by my response below:
Dr. Knafo,
Thank you for responding. I do believe you that you feel nothing was changed.
But your belief doesn’t take away that there are a growing body of patients who were doing very well….then when they started taking the “new” Erfa Thyroid, their symptoms came back. That is very telling, Dr. Knafo, that something has, in fact, changed….even if you believe nothing has.
No, this is not about your medication “not fitting all patients”. This is about patients who did, in fact, fit with Erfa Thyroid and were doing wonderful on it, only to see their symptoms come back when they started on their new bottles with the new Erfa Thyroid.
I work diligently to first examine and evaluate what I hear from patients before coming to any conclusion or even reporting on what I hear. That has been my method for over a decade with anything related to Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM). I have done the same with these patient reports about Erfa Thyroid. I hesitated. I listened. I examined. And it became clear to me that yes, something has changed. You simply cannot discount this many people who did wonderful, ONLY until they started on their “new” Erfa and saw their hypothyroidism return.
It grieves me that you seem to be discounting what’s going on across the board as to what is clearly going on. And if you are reading the heartfelt responses on my blog post, you are grieving many other sincere people, as well. That won’t bode well for Erfa Canada. 🙁
Sincerely,
Janie Bowthorpe, M.Ed.
Cynthia
How can he continue to say there was no change in the “method of manufacturing” when we’ve been told the “compression” of the tablet is different due to different equipment? I worked in manufacturing facilities long enough to understand that IS A CHANGE in the manufacturing process. So that lie needs to stop.
As for no “change in the formulation”, ok Dr. Knafo, I can believe you on that. The ingredients may be the same – BUT WERE THEY EXAMINED/ANALYZED for contaminants? For example, in my email to Dr. Knafo (in May which he never answered) I questioned whether there could have been “cross-contamination” with medications that contain gluten. If the new Spain manufacturing facility processes medications with gluten, the equipment must be totally santitized/etc. before processing any medications claiming not to contain gluten – or does ERFA not claim that???
We will never get the truth on this though…and Dr. Knafo’s conscience is his problem…my problem is the decline in health I got while on BAD ERFA…which lost them a loyal customer.
Anyone know where I can get a couple hundred dollars refund due to BAD ERFA? 🙁
Angie
Janie..I continue to ask the same questions as in my earlier post. What testing was done? Dr. Knafo has offered to show us the results, but when asked for them he has not responded (at least to my email anyway). ERFA fit me just fine from 2009 to 2014. Life changing like no other. And it is suddenly no longer a fit???? Interestingly enough, when I switched back to older ERFA or N-T, the symptoms I had dissipated. This is not a pt issue. I am not interested in a lawsuit. I am interested in getting my old ERFA back. It sounds as if Knafo and ERFA are going to discount those that have had problems. I have seen a couple of posts that indicate that batches with exp dates of 2017 and after are okay. Janie, can you confirm? I do just okay on Nature-throid, don’t seem to absorb WP at all, have not tried Thyro-Gold and great on the OLD ERFA. In addition, the Nature-throid causes a return of acute diverticulitis eventually, which is no fun at all. Unsure as to why..Please help, Janie and thanks in advance for your help.
Janie Bowthorpe
Angie, it’s too soon for me to report that batches with an expiration of 2017 are working. As someone attempting to help thyroid patients, I feel a strong responsibility to listen to a lot more reports before mentioning that something is gospel. But I’ll keep listening and report if something looks like a strong possibility.
waveylines
I am getting confused by the dates for Erfa thyroid batches. When I was sourcing the thyroid med brand I wanted to switch too I spoke to pharmacists at central supplies in the Uk. On of them told me that Erfa Thyroid has changed its formula from 2017 batches onwards…..now I am sorry I was so shocked I didn’t get that person’s name. This pharmacist was very clear about the testing -He said well testing the active ingredients in a thyroid tablet is not going to really help -what you need to know is the fillers and how they interact with the active thyroid meds and the degree they aid or inhibit uptake. So I am interested that Dr Knafo has confirmed that testing for the ratio of t4 to t3 is the same but not commented on the interaction between this and the fillers. Why?
Dr Knafo has still not replied to my last three emails or even read them by the looks of it. I don’t understand, I was a happy patient who was on Erfa doing really well for over three years…..and then something happened in 2014 -and boom crash wallop my health has collapsed and you wont reply? I have no other medical conditions beyond Hypothyroidism…..my doctor has checked! Suddenly Erfa is not a fit for me? -well yes that is true now but not because I have changed Dr Knafo!!
Angie
Wavey: We believe the formula was changed OR there was a problem with early 2014 manufactured batches. Not 2017. I disagree, coming from a laboratory testing environment that testing of active ingredients is inconsequential. In fact, changes in proportion or amount of trace active ingredients (calcitonin, T1 and T2) may very well be some of what we all were experiencing as WELL as a thorough investigation as to possible contaminants. Give Dr. Knafo some time. He usually does respond, but can be a little slow.
Angie
Janie: I may volunteer to be a guinea pig. I read that at least one (maybe two or three) had done better on batches/lots with later expiration dates (e.g., 2017). I’ll know pretty quickly if the same issues persist. May take two-three weeks as I receive meds somewhat slowly. Stay tuned and thanks for your help.
Angie
Well, attempted to get a 2017 exp date or after from Canada Drug. These people confound me. Every single time I place an order, it takes several phone calls and/or emails to get the order completed and sent on its way. Today was told by someone (I’ve been an educated thyroid pt since 1996) at Canada Drug that they were going to fill my script with Armour (presumably the new since the old isn’t available) since the old Armour and ERFA were the same medication (they actually are not..slight T4/T3 ratio difference). Saw other posts that stated that 30 and 60 mg were not in stock..could this be ERFA starting from scratch and fixing their problem? One can only hope…stay tuned!
Angie
Was just told by Canada Drug that they had no ERFA with an exp date of later than 10/2015…have asked them some pointed questions..where are you all getting the late 2017 exp date batches?
Angie
One other point, however…has Knafo responded to you with regard to testing that was done and actual results?
waveylines
Angie,
I fully appreciate that Dr Knafo is a very busy man -but what i find strange is that he replied to my first emails giving him the info but has not read the last two emails -as i ask for a read receipt. He has in the past responded quickly……not now… My emails are polite and respectful and were sent nearly two weeks ago..
Darla
Here’s a thought…should we all not report side effects to Health Canada..to launch a further investigation? Online:www.health.gc.ca/medeffect.
Samirah
That’s a good idea, but I’d hold off on that until we see if the new pills are ok. If Health Canada gets involved they could shut Erfa down completely. I have a friend who works with insurance\drug companies, and she said if they get complaints about a drug, Health Canada shuts them right down… I don’t know all the details about all that… but if the new pills are ok, we definitely down want to loose the only NDT here in Canada.
Angie
I’d like to hear from those with later expiration date batches..I’m willing to order one and try it, but if I have similar problems, then I absolutely will complain to Health Canada. If ERFA is not going to launch a serious investigation into this and provide us with full disclosure of same, then quite frankly they NEED to be shut down. I was so ill on the new med I thought I was dying and I assure you my doctor, knowing that I am not given to histrionics, took that quite seriously.
Dianne
Angie, that’s a good point. If ERFA has no problem putting out what some of us feel is a contaminated product to the public, then maybe they should be reported to Health Canada, and let the chips fall where they may. Like you, some of us have reported we felt like we were dying on it, but we do fine on old ERFA; and ERFA maintains an attitude that it’s something wrong on our part.
Nick
Pharmarama in the UK have a batch of 30mg x 500 EFRA Thyroid dated exp 2017, lot # LF03508A but tell me that they will not send any out until earlier stocks are exhausted.
I asked if the person that I spoke to could give me an idea of the appearance of these tablets but they are not allowed to open the containers.
I don’t know how many UK ERFA users get their supply through Phramarama but it could be quite a while before that batch reaches me! 🙁
Lori T
Angie I am one with a newer batch of 30mg x 500 EFRA Thyroid dated exp 2017, lot # LF03508A and am doing fine on them. They seem to be the old version, no shininess, no spots, no hardness, no deep indentations and no bad side effects.
I read earlier that Paul has a batch (Lot: LF03505A, Exp: 02/2017) that is causing him problems. I’m not sure if his are 30mg, but they are one tiny number off in the lot number.
Nick
Very interesting Lori. I have a batch of the LF03507A that do not appear to be working (and also resemble the shinier new look). So have ERFA changed back I wonder? It would be the answer to all our prayers!
Angie
Hi Lori T:
What is your specific exp date besides the year (ERFA usually provides the month as well). Thanks for weighing in!
A.
Lori T
Angie, sorry I should have put the month also, it is 02/2017
Sandra
Hi Lori,
I was wondering if you are still doing well on this batch? I just started it today and would love to hear good news. I am starting a staycation next week and although not the big picture would love to feel well enough to enjoy it.
thanks!
Dianne
re: the test results people would like to see: I emailed Dr. Knafo today (June 18, 2014) asking if I could see the results of the test. Dr. Knafo told me that the tests are confidential and seen only by Health Authorities (Health Canada), and that they are available in their office only, also saying that ‘(we don’t let it out)’. I’m not sure if this means if someone is able to travel to Montreal to Dr. Knafo’s office, whether they can view the results there, though.
Angie
Interesting…Knafo offered for us to see the tests earlier. I have requested also and I have requested to learn what tests were actually done. I have had no response as yet. To give Dr. Knafo credit, he usually does respond albeit slowly.
Sandra
Is there a way to get the formulation of what was in the “good” Erfa including what filler, amount of T3 and T4 and other ingredients for me so I can tell my pharmacy what to do to create my compounded natural thyroid formula?
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands
Sandra
Hi Janie
When I click that link it says that page is unavailable anymore.
thank you if you could let me know if there is a way to view it or get the amounts listed here.
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, just corrected it. 🙂
Delann
I have my doubts as others do about the results from the independent lab that nothing was shown to be wrong with the erfa thyroid pills since changing manufacturing facilities. Why didn’t Dr. Knafo post the results from his “independent Re-testing”? Unless I missed it, I suggest he do that. He knows of this site.
I can only sit here and wonder why did a proven thyroid treatment that finally gave me back my life, suddenly with Quote “no change” start making my hypo symptoms return? The repercussions of admitting something did indeed go wrong would create turmoil within that company with perhaps numerous law suits, the returns of batches in question, the refunds in monies. Can you imagine the demands to make good on the bad batches in question and especially with what? 300 “new” customers?
Companies that think they can play with thyroid medication as though it was a vitamin or some general across the board supplement are missing the intelligence boat when it comes to people like me who have NO thyroid gland and have to rely on replacement med to live. We hypothyroid people of all people know when there is a “change” in something. The thyroid hormone is so vital to life that if it gets “off” in the smallest of ways, we detect it.
How can Dr. Knafo dismiss so many reporting ill effects and in the same breath say nothing has changed? Is he trying to send the message that over 170 posts of such that it is all in our heads? Or, we have all of a sudden “changed” something in our lifestyles or diets? Get real. I know I haven’t “changed” anything in my routine.
I don’t know what internal disruption may have taken place within the Erfa Company for it to have “changed” its manufacturing plant in the first place, or what could possibly motivate them to “blame” the patient instead of a through investigation based upon the uproar of patients complaints reporting. I don’t know if contaminations, sub standard ingredients, changes in additives/fillers, unskilled help in the new facility, transport heat and cold regulations were met or what everrrrrrrrr has happened. However, I guess erfa underestimated this time by NOT doing a COMPLETE investigation into EVERY avenue of the manufacturing plant and production of thyroid medication as a concerned company should do and reporting that results, because they now see that many are dropping erfa for other thyroid treatment meds.
Dr Knafo may state that the “retesting” showed no change in the concentrations of t4/t3, However, It is what he is NOT saying that is detrimental! I truly believe they are hiding something. I agree a hundred percent with what Janie said that this is all HOG WASH! I no longer trust Erfa Company and will never recommend it to anyone else again like I did in previous years nor will I use this product Erfa Thyroid again!
Dianne
Delann, You took the words right out of my mouth. I agree with everything you’ve just said and couldn’t have said it any better.
Lauren
I agree Delann!
bean
I was on the old Armour when it all changed- horrible- so went on Nature-throid, same thing happened with that company!! So is Nature-throid OK now??!!
Then because of it all- i went on Erfa a few years back. This week I called my pharmacy to refill (recommended by this site- universal drug store)- and they said NO Erfa available- and hasn’t been for a month. I came online to research, and found these comments on Erfa. I wonder if this is why they can’t refill my Rx ?
I “thought” i was doing OK on Erfa, until a thought back a few months to beginning of 2014 and remembered (maybe Feb ?) of horrible symptoms- extreme muscle pain and fatigue, and just thought it was the time of the year changing. I sonde if IT WAS Erfa??!! It lasted awhile and was so bad i thought i would loose my job.
So after Universal Drug could not refill my RX, I contacted Erfa.
heres what they said
“it is now available” end of message by Simon Soucy (president Erfa).
So then I wrote back asking due to what I’ve read have they changed anything with Erfa. Here is their response:
“No ,
Thyroid is the same product since it introduction 25 years ago.
There is no change in the formulation. I invite you to communicate this to
whoever said this.
Regards
Simon Soucy
President
Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. ”
wow- very blunt and to the point.
great- now as a patient who does not have the energy to figure this all out- I have to or bear the miserable results.
hope this is information to anyone seeking it
Anne
I think the reply you received confirms that they don’t really care and wish we’d all go away!
Sandra
Well we ARE going to go away, find other options aren’t we!
Paul
Hi Delann, similar symptom here too
June 1st, ended and old batch of Thyroid and Started on a new one (Lot: LF03505A, Exp: 02/2017)
Blood work on June 3rd, Back to hypo. TSH:1.4, T4L:11.3 (normal 12-22) T3L: 1.9 (Normal 1.3-3.1) TPO-ab: 29 (Normal 0-35)
June 4- 5 very bad headeakes, June 6-7-8-9 , Terrible headeackes + plus pain all over the body, ackes muscles, could not speep, too painfull, restless legs, had to take tylenol with codeine to ease the pain. No energy at all, very tired.,depress.
Used to have migraine for many years and be hospitalise at some occasion. Found out that I had milk intollerance, stop all milk product since august 2013 and no headakce since. except this episode with Erfa Thyroid, really make me wonder about the product contaminated???
During that episode, I found this site and all this blog on Erfa. I then stard shopping around to differents neigborghoud pharmacies to find and old bottle of Thyroid that I fimally found and start taking it on June 14, That’s a week ago, since, no more headeackes, no more pain, felling better, no more depress, was able to mow the grass, do bike, the sun is back again
From what I read, from the symptom occurings at the same time that I took this new bach or Erfa, 2+2=4 , There seems defenitely something wrong
Thanks Janie ,you are doing a terrific job at hepling and informing people
Paul, Montreal
Nick
I forgot to add that, in an act of desperation, I am now crushing the ERFA tabs with half a tab of B12, between two spoons and mixing the powder into 500 ml of fruit juice. I started yesterday and this morning I didn’t wake up feeling like I was in hell.
Anne
Nick this is an interesting way to take ERFA. Can you tell me what the lot number and expiry are of the tablets you’re doing this with. Also the B12 tablets please? I have lot humber 13C02 expiry 03/2016 which was made in the old factory in Belgium but I had an immediate stomach reaction to it and after three days became suddenly dizzy and light-headed. Not sure if I want to try them again but if your way of taking them works that would be good as I have a jar with 495 tablets left in it and only two weeks of the old tablets left 🙁
Anne
Correction my tablets are 13C06, and not good at all!
waveylines
Hi Anne,
Mine are the same batch 13C06 2016 and I feel terrible on them. I was told, like you, they were from the old factory and everything is ‘fine’ Am signed off work by my GP as am too poorly to work -waiting for the WP Thyroid to come through -can’t wait! I was on Erfa Thyroid for over three years and did really well, felt great until the start of 2014…..been down hill ever since….
Dr Knafo -why haven’t you replied to my last three emails? You told us to contact you if we had any concerns…..
Anne
Waveylines I told Dr Knafo that I had an immediate allergic-type response to those tablets and he replied by suggesting I had become allergic to something in them and should see my doctor. He didn’t seem to understand that this is impossibloe as I am not allergic to the other ERFA tablets that I have!
Dianne
Anne, I also told Dr. Knafo about my allergic reactions to the new ERFA, and that I wasn’t allergic to the old stock. So more than just one person has complained about an allergic reaction! The ‘not-seeming-to-understand’ part is maddening and a little unbelievable.
Jerrod Penworth
i got the 500 125mg erfa about two weeks ago, lot 13C06 2016,,, i ran out the end of may my body temps began to get real cool by the 10th of june 94.5f under the arm,,,when i got the new batch two weeks ago i began 3 grains a day,,, my body temps back up and everything is well notice no difference except they maybe a little stonger than my last 500 125mg bottle,,my pills do not look all speckled with colors they just slightly crunch and melt in your mouth very pleasent as always,, im very sensitive to change so maybe my batch was a good batch good luck folks
Nick
Sorry for the delay in replying. My batch number is LF93507A (expiry 02/17). My previous batch was LF03072A (10/16).
I noticed no difference from crushing the tablets but have upped my dose from 4×30 mg per day to 6×30 and do feel slightly better. I’m suffering with a bit of hay fever at present so hard to say if the increased dose has any negative effects. I am also taking them sublingually (they taste quite pleasant). And I take my B12 the same way at the same time as my morning dose so the two ‘go in’ together. I’ve no idea if this works well or not.
BTW I used to suffer with hayfever prior to being put on Armour (when it worked). So the hayfever seems to be related to the hypo (which is Hashis). No doubt all tied up with the immune system.
I’m beginning to wonder if they aren’t now making Armour and ERFA with synthetic T4/T3. Remember this all started with the FDA in the US wanting to bring Armour under its control! And we all know that the medical establishment promotes the idea that synthetic thyroid hormones work for everybody.
Anne
Thanks for telling me this Nick, also I see you’re going to try NatureThroid, that worked for me after Armour was reformulated but I didn’t get any more when it too was reformulated, I switched straight to ERFA. It would be good to know if you get on with it when you do get some! Are you the person who became ill after travelling in the far east years ago?
It seems that lot numbers BN136051 60 mgs expiry 07/2016, and LF03140B 60 mgs expiry 10/2016 are both ok. If so this adds to the confusion. Some batches ok, some not, some from the old factory in Belgium (mine) some from the new factory in Spain, some look the same as usual some look different, some people are saying the same batches are ok when packaged in 100s but not in 500s, it doesn’t make much sense!
Nick
Yes, I got much more ill (I’ve never been properly well) after a back-packing trip around the world between 1979 and 1981. That’s now on You Tube if you are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF5rnkhN668&list=PL5d11JwmawKG0chMuuHe7azRdLHSgQVte
Anne
Nick – I can’t reply to you direct for some reason so I do hope you see this – thank you for the link to your YouTube videos of your trip around the world – I’ve watched the first one and have bookmarked them all to watch over the weekend. I’ve also linked on my Facebook page because I’m sure my friends will enjoy them too!
Nick
Hi Anne, yes I saw your post. I hope you enjoy the video clips (from happier days when my life didn’t revolve around thyroid medication lol)
Sandra
Hi Nick,
Are you still feeling well taking your pills that way?
I am going to try it that way tomorrow.
Nick
I’m now simply placing the tablets under my tongue until they dissolve. On the morning dose I also take my sublingual B12 at the same time.
Sorry to say I am still feeling very hypo!
Sandra
I am so sorry to hear that Nick, so don’t you think crushing them may help, I didn’t crush mine today but will try that tomorrow.
Nick
I can’t see that crushing them would do anything different to having them simply dissolve under the tongue.
Karen
Hi Janie,
Thanks for all you do on behalf of thyroid patients around the world.
After reading your comments and those of others with respect to current Erfa problems, I wondered if there is any possibility that the problem is with the raw T3/T4 active ingredients supplied to the various manufacturers. The reason I ask is I switched to Naturethroid after the Armour disaster and after six months on it have had a return of higher TSH, hair falling out, fatigue, feeling freezing cold and low temperature, etc., with no change in my dose. Does anyone oversee the actual suppliers of the pig/ hog thyroid? Is it manufactured in the US?
Thanks,
Karen H.
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Karen, probably not, because there aren’t widespread complaints about any of the other NDT’s. Your issue with Naturethroid was because of what we’ve gone over a few times—you probably have low iron and/or a cortisol problem….:)
Nick
I have now contacted ERFA with my concerns.
I have also telephoned the pharmacy that supplies my ERFA, and they are going to find out if they can obtain Naturethroid. If they can, I will ask my (NHS) endo if I can try that instead of the ERFA.
For those in the UK, the pharmacy (Lloyds) told me that they buy ERFA from Pharmarama. According to the Thyroid UK site, Pharmarama also sell Naturethroid. So in theory at least, it should be an easy switch if your doctor/endo agrees to change the prescription.
waveylines
Hi Nick,
I live in the Uk too -and normally get my prescription of Erfa on the NHS ( which like you was a major achievement!) -my Lloyds pharamcist has told me they can get Naturethroid so you should be alright once you have convinced your endo….. I actually want to switch to WP Throid which is by the same company but made for those of us who are hypoallegenic ( sorry spelling) but Lloyds say they can’t get it for me -so am on the hunt for a stockist in the UK.
Good luck Nick with the Endo…..I’ve got an appointment with my GP this Wed on the same mission…..not optomistic either! So already pruchased some off the net……not going down the levo route again ever!
Nick
Hi waveylines,
I had a call back from the hospital pharmacy yesterday afternoon to ask me about the problem. They suggested that I give my endo a list of all the alternatives as any medication that is purchased by the hospital has to be approved by a committee as being safe, coming from an approved source etc. So the more options that they have, the more likely they are to get an approved alternative, although I suspect that Naturethroid is favourite.
Good luck with your search for WP thyroid. I couldn’t find that one when I searched yesterday.
I haven’t had hay fever since I went on NDT but this year it is very bad!
waveylines
Hi Nick,
Thanks and you 🙂
WP Thyroid is the new name for WesthroidP it is made by the same manufactureres as Naturethroid
Lloyds Pharamcy can get it -their specialist team in London source and order in and then it is sent out to your local pharmacy. So eitheryou get it from the hospital or your endo needs to ask your GP to prescribe. However I have to warn you that just becuase an endo recommends doesn’t mean to say that the GP’s will oblige you with a prescription…..so be careful! Sorry you probably have found this out already…lol
Nick
I also discovered that WP is West-Throid, and it is supplied by the same people as Nature-Throid.
I don’t get my NDT from my GP. He (and the local PCT) refused to supply it, so my very kind endo prescribes it instead. In a way that makes things a bit easier, but of course if he leaves, I am scuppered.
I recently blagged a B12 injection off a new GP, and noticed that it relieved all the hypo symptoms. Because I only had a single shot, the effect was short-lived but I am now in a full-on battle to get regular B12 treatment, even though my serum levels are OK. But, as it took me 15 years to get NDT, I may well be relieved of ALL symptoms before I get the B12 shots. 😉
Nick
As a male, I thought that I’d better chip in before this situation is dismissed as female hysteria! lol
I too have gone right down hill again this year, very similar to how I did when they changed Armour Thyroid. I thought that the reason imay have been a virus I had, but I should be well over that by now, and I am continuing to get worse.
I am in the UK, and will now write to my NHS endo to tell him of the situation, and see if he will agree to try another NDT. It took me months to get him to switch me to ERFA from Armour, so I don’t hold out much help of getting help quickly.
If these companies must change something (and why fix it if it ain’t broken?) then surely they should put out a small batch first to see how the customers react. I worry that this is another company that has been ‘got to’ as ‘they’ try to get us ALL on synthetic thyroid medication.
jobeth
I feel that the erfa is contaminated.
They wont admit to it.
Too many of us ill.
I am well again on nature – throid.
No confidence in erfa to ever go back.
Unreliable. Can’t be trusted.
Lauren
I agree, Jobeth. The company lacks integrity and respect for its consumers. Even if the “mystery” of the whole Erfa Thyroid debacle is solved, would we really want to put our faith (and money) into a company that so unethically and disrespectfully disregarded the people who keep them in business??? I. Think. Not. Bye bye Erfa.
Karen
To those of you who are switching to other desiccated: Have you looked into the inactive ingredients in some of them? I thought Westhroid P would be a good substitute for ERFA when it was unavailable in Dec-Jan , but I had allergic reactions to ints inactives. I have a list I will post later on inactives in desiccated.
Janie Bowthorpe
The ingredients are all listed here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands And once you discover and treat either your low iron and/or cortisol issues, you may see what seems like allergic reactions go away!
Dianne
I just wish these thyroid pharmaceutical companies would produce an ndt medication that doesn’t have all these unnecessary ‘other ingredients’ in them. I don’t think colouring, products used in plastics and anti-freeze, titanium dioxide, CELLULOSE, and who-knows-what-else (to name a few), is needed! Most of us that need thyroid hormone replacement already have enough problems without ingesting… garbage. I believe ERFA had a high quality product that most of us could tolerate well, and then they went and changed the formula. And most likely because it’s cheaper to produce. At least those are my suspicions. Now look at the mess we’re in.
Karen
Janie: Unfortunately those tests – serum iron, ferritin and TIBC – are not routinely done when you enter the ER at my hospital. I will have to ask my primary for those tests. Thank you for your information.
Janie Bowthorpe
And don’t forget % saturation.
Thea
Dianne, my thoughts exactly: “Maybe the only way we can really find out for sure what is in ‘new ERFA’ is to find an independent lab that has no direction/instruction from, or affiliation with, ERFA Canada”. Mike at Natural News does toxicity tests on food and perhaps other substances. If I had any of the new pills I’d send him some…
Karen
Janie:
I checked my CBC reports from hospital, the hemoglobin and hematocrit and MCV are normal – there were no ranges posted. Appreciate your help.
Karen
Janie Bowthorpe
Ah, those have nothing to with what you you need, which is serum iron, % saturation, ferritin and TIBC.
Laura
I am SO glad I found this info. I was beginning to think I was nuts. I have been taking ERFA for years and just recently after getting my script refilled my weight began to creep up after being steady at 140 I have gained almost 10lbs in just a few months with no change in diet or exercise. I just looked at my tablets and they look like the new ones- shiny and hard. I have a bottle of older ones and compared- totally different. I think I will switch back to the older batch and contact my local compounding pharmacy to see if they carry Naturethroid. I went through the Armour debacle, am now dealing with trying to locate a good new thyroid Dr since my previous one literally disappeared with no patient notification. The new Dr I saw the other day seems to be narrow minded,only goes by numbers and doesn’t like natural thyroid. I have a feeling she will want to put me on synthroid. I also have an 89 yr old Mum with Graves without a thyroid so I have her to worry about as well.
Lorraine Gray
is anyone saying the new ERFA is still working okay for them?
Marian
Janie, please could you ask Dr Knafo to certify that Erfa is still gluten free and that the new factory and new raw ingredients are guten-free certified with no possibility of contamination? I have celiac symptoms while on lot: LF03140A, EXP: 10/16. I observe a strict gluten-free diet and want to know if Erfa is safe in this regard. In order to be given the term ‘gluten-free’ manufacturers must observe certain rules. Erfa has up to now claimed gluten-free status.
Rules on certification are here: http://www.celiaccentral.org/gluten-free-certification/
Thanks for all your efforts on patients’ behalf.
Janie Bowthorpe
He has the link to this blog post, so we’ll see if he responds.
Clare
I experienced the exact same gluten-like response with the same lot (LF0314A) – 60mg.
Clare
Erfa has us by the throat and they know it. This problem will persist as long as they are allowed to corner the market. Perhaps we’re better off focusing our energies on someone who will listen and cares about their customers. How do we lobby RLC labs to open shop in Canada – so that we can get Naturethroid and WP. Do we all start sending them emails and start a social media campaign to get RLC’s attention?
Dianne
Maybe the only way we can really find out for sure what is in ‘new ERFA’ is to find an independent lab that has no direction/instruction from, or affiliation with, ERFA Canada. Does anyone have any ideas? Would Health Canada be able to test it, with no input from ERFA in any way? Or some other lab? It seems ERFA’s recent testing did not test the actual ingredients, just the concentration. Which is of no value to us in the least.
karen
good God…i just started on this yesterday after months of avoiding meds!! my pills are 30mg and don’t look like the grainy ones. they are easy to cut and not hard like the newer ones. they could be the better batch. i am experiencing diarrhea today…i assume from the erfa.
please, do you guys think i should stop taking it and wait for better clarification? thanks for this website..its been so helpful. karen.
Shanna
I have been taking Erfa Thyroid since 2010..The new 2014 Erfa is making me sick. .I am not going to take Erfa until they correct the medication. I do not care how much “testing” is done. This does not change the fact that all my symptoms have returned and my free t3 and t4 have plummeted. My vitamin D and ferritin levels are perfect..I am interesting in seeing your “sales” for 2014 next year Dr. KNAFO. You would never admit to the public that such a vital mistake was made anyway. To disregard so many people’s health and well- being is beyond me.
Anne
It seems they only tested the concentration of all the batches which people complained about, instead of what was actually in them. The problem can’t have been the concentration, because if it were then every person taking ERFA would have complained. The problem must be in the fillers or else due to some sort of contamination. I think this is most likely because many of us had immediate allergic-type reactions to it. It could also be something to do with the new compression machines altering the chemical content by their heat, but that doesn’t explain those of us having problems with the ‘old’ batches made in Belgium. Also I’ve read one post where someone has an even newer batch with an expiry of 2017 and they are fine, so it could possibly be a fault in all batches made between certain dates. A cynic might think that when the first reports started emerging about problems, the facility began a new run with completely new ingredients.
Darla
Janie..I live in Ontario.Canada and have read your book a couple of times now and this is what set me in motion to switch to a dessicated thyroid. After being on levo/synthroid and combo of Cytomel for 20 years at .150mg i have struggled with feeling “normal/ human”. I had been diagnosed with Graves disease when I was 19 and was treated twice with Radioactive Iodine, now in my early forties I wanted to take a stand and feel normal again. I decided to switch doctors after my family doctor was against prescribing a natural thyroid and consulted a naturopath doctor in February. This is how it has played out thus far….my NP doctor diagnosed me with adrenal gland fatigue and put me on Adrenplus 300 which is suppose to help the fatigued adrenals. He could not prescribed dessicated thyroid as Health Canada does not permit him to as of yet…he indicated to me that it was soon to be approved. So onto the next step I located a doctor in London, Ontario which I inquired if he treated adrenal and thyroid problems, which was confirmed he did. At my initial visit, he indicated to me that he really doesn’t believe in adrenal fatigue…and so he switched me to ERFA 60 mg. So 3 months later ..now I am in a real mess..here are my tests result as of May 25/14 TSH:15, T4:7, T3:2.1. Two weeks ago I went for my follow-up and he said to increase by 30 mg and then another 30 mg after a while if I still feel awful..no problem until I read about the Erfa mess. I increased by 30 mg and now am having symptoms of Graves disease again…fast heart rate, weak…dizzy…can’t sleep…So, back I went today to see him …this is what he told me to do…go back down to 60 mg! I was shocked and in disbelief that he thought it would work to put me back down to what I was on with such awful tests results and feeling..so tired. I said to him, do you not believe that there could be a problem with my adrenals causing this reaction to the increase of dessicated thyroid. An absolute NO! He said its simple…you felt better on less or I can switch you back to a synthetic t4, t3 combo syn/cyto and to which I indicated i have tried that. He said well you have to decide not me …I left and will not be returning. So now what? I guess I will have to go back on synthroid – which I sure don’t want to do., but until I can find another doctor who is taking new patients and can actually help! If any one reading is from Ontario an has a good doctor I hope you can help….I am once again at my WITTS END!!
Sandra
Janie,
In the midst of my anger when I posted last, I forgot to say thank you for your well written reply to Dr. Knafo. Thank you for being our voice. I am eternally grateful to you and for your life saving (once again) blog.
I am still at a loss about what is available to those of us in Canada as an alternative besides compounding. Is there a list that I can reference?
thank you
thank you
Janie Bowthorpe
Sandra, you are welcome. And google thyrogold.
Sandra
Hi Darla,
I feel for what you are experiencing. There are a couple of people that you can see, Dr Natasha Turner in Toronto and Dr Cara Flamer are two people. I did see both of them at one time for a short period but they were not covered by OHIP and I could not afford it. Also there is a list of doctors somewhere here on STTM that you can try. Also try calling your local compounding pharmacy and ask for a name of doctors that prescribe NTH and or cortef. It sounds like you need adrenal support in order to proceed and is why NTH is not working for you. Don’t give up and sorry I am not of much more help. I would offer you my MD but he said I cannot refer thyroid patients to him, just wants to treat menopausal men and women!
Heather
Sandra, I’m almost at menopause and live in Toronto, could you give me the name of that doctor??
Sandra
Hi Heather,
I apologize for not replying as I haven’t checked back on all my comments until recently.
His name is Dr. Gibb and he is located in Oshawa. He is an MD and charges $150.00 for the year and then charges your 20 minute appt to OHIP.
Good luck!
Darla
Sandra…thank you..I have found a doctor in Oakville, ON..appointment not until August 20th…will let you know. She does believe in adrenal fatigue as she herself has experienced it. May be light at the end of the tunnel.
Sandra
Hi Darla,
That is fantastic!
Would you be able to email me the name of the doctor you will see in August.
I want to keep my doctor options open as I don’t know when my doctor plans on retiring.
thanks and good luck, would love to hear how you make out.
waveylines
Personally I think the clue is when he said they had a three fold increase in demmand for Thyroid ……that’s a huge rise to have to meet, which would not only involve increasing machinery to make it but sourcing increases with their suppliers, distributions, storage, packaging, staffing etc…..and still maintaiin a high quality product! Hmmm…..
Thanks for the tips on alternatives Janie 🙂 🙂
Dianne
“Also I’ve read one post where someone has an even newer batch with an expiry of 2017 and they are fine, so it could possibly be a fault in all batches made between certain dates. A cynic might think that when the first reports started emerging about problems, the facility began a new run with completely new ingredients.”
That’s interesting to hear Anne. I happen to be a cynic. : ) I might try to see if I can get a hold of a few 2017 tablets, and see how I react. I’ll know pretty quickly. I feel so terrible on new ERFA, though, that I’m actually scared to try it again.
Anne
Dianne I’m considering asking the pharmacy where I bought mine to substitute them for a new batch (expiry 2017) as soon as they have new stock. I know that the pharmacy, which is online, has promised that to another person. Either way I’ve spent the money on them and Dr Knafo’s statement means I can’t get a refund easily, but like you I’m now very wary of ERFA. Yesterday I began a slow switch to Thiroyd and am imagining all sorts of off effects today which are no doubt all in my mind!
Clare
Janie: would you consider doing a post advising Canadian and international patients on how to switch to another brand of NDT? There is a lot of info about the different options, but, particularly for Canadians, what’s missing is information on how to speak to our dr’s on making the switch to either compounded or a US brand (like WP of Naturethroid, for example). I’m seeing a lot of people on Facebook etc. that have done this, but it would be helpful to have the info on how to request it from your doctor and explain that Erfa is not the only option.
Sandra
Hi Cynthia,
You say people are ordering other thyroid hormone’s into Canada, are you able to copy and post that information here in case Janie maybe too busy to do that for those of us who may need this sooner than later?
It would help greatly.
Yvonne
Dear Janie and readers,
I’m not affected by the ERFA reformulation, as I buy Thiroyd from Thailand. But I want to ask, have any of you tried crushing a tablet between two spoons, adding a bit of sugar or dextrose (found in the baby aisle at the supermarket) and tucking it in between your cheek and gum? This isn’t a great solution, but it might help somebody survive with their current supplies until they can find a better brand.
Yvonne
Sandra
Hi Yvonne,
Do you know if your’s can be ordered into Canada? Can you forward any information where to order etc to us here so we can look at that as an option?
That would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Samirah
Hi Sandra, I’m pretty sure, that YES Thiroyd and Thyroid-S, both from Thailand I believe and sold by the same person can be shipped into Canada, as it is looked at as a supplement. If you are on facebook they have groups you can “like” for Thyroid-S and Thiroyd, and it gives contact information to order the pills. Or I’m sure you could also google it and find some info on the pills as well.
Sandra
Hi Samirah,
I just saw your reply so thank you very much for your reply, I will check into that.
Sandra
Hi again,
I am now feeling quite desparate as I have been getting worse. I was wondering if you see this, can you tell me why you think I can order it into Canada? I just tried to order it from amazon.com and it wouldn’t ship to my address.
thanks
Dianne
Like other people, I’m not surprised by Dr. Knafo’s response. I was expecting it. Afterall, ‘there has been no change in formulation’, has been ERFA’s claim all along, and they are sticking to their story. The ‘tests’ sound like a joke, to be frank. Dr. Knafo says, ‘There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other.” So, it sounds like all they looked at was the concentration in all the batches. (?) Then he says, ” We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique.” This doesn’t sound like a result from testing, this is just the same line Dr. Knafo has been saying all along. Did they test for toxins/contaminants/heavy metals; did they compare the exact ingredients of new ERFA with the same ingredients from the tried and true formula they’ve used for years? Certainly doesn’t sound like it? Can you please post the test results for all of us to see, Dr. Knafo?
And, so again, I’m insulted and frustrated and yes, devastated, by how ERFA has handled this disaster. It isn’t necessarily a disaster to them because, hey, ERFA has increased its customer volume in the last year. So that means more money for ERFA. And the loss of just one of the 10,000 Canadian customers is not important. What is important to ME is that ERFA Thyroid is the only prescribed ndt in Canada. There is no other alternative for me. And, I will not poison myself by taking new ERFA. I felt like I was dying on it.
ERFA, there is something drastically wrong with the new ERFA Thyroid, and I feel it is, at the least, unethical to supply this medication to the public. And, I’m sorry, but the whole situation has felt underhanded and dishonest. I lost some of my trust in ERFA when I first contacted you about the reaction I was having to new ERFA back in January, and was told nothing had changed with the formulation. Now I’ve lost complete trust after reading this brushed over statement about the ‘test results’.
Heather
I just went to my NP Doctor 2 days ago (she treats allergies etc) and with all my pills she tests them first to see if I’m allergic to them. I gave her my new erfa prescription and she tested me and said I had an allergy to them and shouldn’t take them. Then she tested the old ones and said they were fine, and both of us were scratching our heads as to why this would be happening. Now after reading what has happened to everyone else, it makes sense! I’m fortunate to have 1 week of the old erfa left, and I’m hoping it gives me enough time to switch over to another brand. I’m not waiting around for them to fix it, they have lost me as a customer!
Dianne
Heather, that is good information to know about the allergy testing by your NP of the new and old ERFA. Not that I needed confirmation to know that there is some ingredient or ingredients in new ERFA that are causing reactions and hypo symptoms for some people. How many?
Sonia
I had the same thing done … the 125mg (new pills) were “toxic” for me according to the testing done. However, old 30mg tablets were fine (with optimum dosing at 4 of those for 120mg). I’ll be out of the 30s in about a week though, and have no idea what to do after that.
Cynthia
I’m not surprised by Dr. Knafo’s letter. After all, should ERFA admit that anything is amiss, they open themselves up to a huge liability. It’s always about the $$$, isn’t it?
I actually expected to hear from ERFA that the T4/T3 concentrations were all okay in the suspect batches. That may be so – but there is no information about the other raw product – and the possibility of toxins/contamination with that. That’s where I think the problem stems from.
And here’s another theory of mine: I have been diagnosed with Celiac Disease just recently and my symptoms all got worse with my first bad batch of ERFA around the first of the year. I read yesterday that sometimes a medication can “trigger” latent celiac disease into full-blown “bomb going off” celiac. This appears to be what happened to me because of BAD ERFA.
We know from the medical literature that there is a strong connection between celiac disease/gluten intolerance and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. I would encourage every person who has been negatively affected by the BAD ERFA to have a blood celiac panel done as well as genetic testing. I can recommend Enterolab’s genetic test.
Janie, I sincerely thank you for being the thyroid advocate who has been unafraid to blog about this and attempt to help those of us who have suffered such a health setback. Sadly, just as I know it was with the 2009 Armour fiasco, there are folks out there who have gotten sick from the BAD ERFA and don’t know there is a problem. Furthermore, I suspect that as these bad batches get into the market, there will be more reports from patients.
Me, I’ve switched to another brand of desiccated thyroid after being on ERFA since 2009. I don’t think I’ll be going back to ERFA. Integrity is important to me – and for this company to say nothing is wrong – well that’s a lie – and a life-threatening lie to we patients who depended on ERFA. Good riddance to them – and although I’m not ordinarily mean-spirited, I’m hoping their company goes down in flames…
Janie Bowthorpe
Good points, and excellent info, Cynthia.
Karen Tavasci
Hello,
So, with my ERFA now compromised also, which is the purest NDT out there?
Janie Bowthorpe
Karen, all the rest of the NDT’s work, but each person might have their favorites. NP Thyroid appears to be very successful—it’s made like the old Armour and you can do it sublingually. WP Thyroid has the least fillers and you can do it sublingually. Naturethroid is also still successful—you can’t do it sublingually very well, though, if that is important to you.
Thea
Hi, I’ve been reading but not commenting because my pharmacist is still using one of the old bottles, as far as I can tell from the pictures of the pills, and will be for a while longer.
But I wonder, Janie, if you’d let us know in Canada what other brands are available here, if there are any. I’m in a Google search right now, but it’s not looking fruitful so far; and my pharmacist says Erfa is the only NDT available here. I hope you can prove him wrong too!
Thank you for all the newsletters, all the work on our behalf.
Sandra
Hi Thea,
I too am in Canada and Janie suggested to google Thyrogold and will do that but my pharmacist said they can compound natural thyroid hormone. Go to the first post on this situation that Janie created and there is a link to other options and in that list gives the guidelines for what to watch out for when ordering compounded formulation.
Good luck to us all!
Sonia
Seconding Thea’s request, any info on alternatives available in Canada would be greatly appreciated.
I’m sorry that Erfa is not taking this as seriously as they should, I am certain there will be a significant drop in sales now for them. It would be a different case if there was effort to pinpoint the difference, acknowledge it, and correct it. But I am not willing to even give benefit of doubt anymore and will not return to the brand in the future … it’s a trust issue now as well. My problem is, what the heck do I replace it with? I never felt well on synthoid, felt great on Erfa Thyroid until 6 weeks ago, and feel like I am out of options.
Lauren
Thank you for this info, Janie! Do you happen to know if these are available at Pharmacies in the United States? Thank you!
Sarah salmon
I am devastated by this. I live in the Uk and ERFA thyroid is the only medication I have felt well on. The last 3 months has been hell and I am ill again. When oh when will drug companies start putting people’s health before their profit margins. It’s a disgrace to suggest that all these people who have complained about the return of their ill health are somehow imagining it. It cannot be a coincidence!!!
I will now lose months of my life again whilst searching for another NDT that I can take. I’ve already tried 4 different ones and the side effects are awful. I had such faith in ERFA. I feel such an idiot now.
Lynn
I’ve been wondering why I’m so exhausted all the time. I switched to Erfa when Armour shortages made it impossible to get my scrips filled. What a difference it made.
Now, come 2 pm I can hardly lift my head it feels so heavy. It seems they’ve changed their manufacturing. Yeah, that’s what Forrest Labs said too.
Great, I guess that means I’m going to be changing the brand I buy. I’d be elated that I finally figured out why I’m so exhausted all the time again but I’m too tired to care. I’ll find something new and the bustards’ll do it again and blame the exhaustion on me because it’s always the patient’s fault.
May they all come down with Hashis.
Cheers.
waveylines
Thank you Janie for all your efforts.
I think this is a really disappointing response. I take real offense that Dr Knafo does not seem to realise that he is talking to many experienced users of their product – Erfa Thyroid -I absoloutley know that what i am experiencing without doubt is a re-emergence of my thyroid symptoms -these are not due to some other ’cause!’ Shame on Erfa for not taking us more seriously.
My GP has offered to get the tablets tested over here in the UK -am now tempted to do so. frankly the upshot of all of this is loss of faith in the company themselves -who is going to trust a company who blames the patient as having ‘individual needs’ whilst acknowldeging they have had 70 compaints!!!
Their sales may have tripled inthe last year but what goes up comes down when you don’t take patients complaints seriously.
I as many others will move across to another NDT that is effective and importantly reliable -am not prepared to carry on gaining masses of weight, be consitpated, crashing after a little exertion exhausted for days, swollen ankles, swollen tongue, dry blurred eyes, indigestion, dry skin, inability to think straight with my hair falling out. Dr Knafo these are classic Hypothyroid symptoms in case you are not aware – there is nothing more mysterious or ‘individual’ than that!! Good effective thyroid treatment will resolve these symptoms as you well know! What a very sad day…..
Janie Bowthorpe
Great post, Waveylines and yes, this is sad. The re-emergence of thyroid symptoms has been extremely common with many intelligent and informed patients worldwide, and the vast majority of the reports aren’t pointing to a cortisol or iron problem. They are pointing to a change in the pill itself…whatever that change has been. Yes, it’s a sad day for all of you who trusted and appreciated Erfa Canada…
Lauren
Janie, what thyroid med do you use? It’s probably common knowledge, or named on this thread somewhere, so I’m sorry to ask you, but I do not know. 🙂
Dianne
waveylines, please consider taking your GP up on his/her offer to run tests on the new and old ERFA. I would love to get to the truth of the matter somehow! Thank you.
waveylines
Hi Diane. I will ask my GP 2 to get my tablets analysed – I have some from both the last 125g lots. None from the ones I felt well on. Today I feel so ill all I can do is lay down. I feel so angry as I have no option but to carry on taking Erfa until I can another brand to switch to.. Dr Knafo when you say there is no correlation between the lots how come I have had three people on the same lot as me contacting me to say how ill they feel. All of us on the 125 gramme tablets. I have no option now but 2 get myself signed off sick from work. Also why haven’t you answered my last three emails when you have told us to contact you if we still have concerns?
Dr Knafo we need this resolving not ignoring.
waveylines
Hi Dianne,
I will take my GP up on his offer to test the tablets -I feel so terrible I can’t go on like this, I slept for hours yesterday and am in so much pain – am desperate to swtich. I feel like I am not on thyroid meds at all. I bumped my dose up 1 & 1 /2 grains yesterday -made no difference. I have tablets from the last two batches of 125g…..I was going to ask him if he would check not only the T4/T3 but also the content. Last time I reacted like this I was on Armour when they changed the formulation and increased the cellulose…..I can only think there is a change in the fillers/procssing that clearly Dr Knafo is not yet aware of. Somethig is definately not right!
Dianne
I’m sorry you feel so terrible, waveylines. There are no words to describe how disasterous and unforgiveable this ERFA… fiasco has been. I also feel there has been an ingredient(s) change. Thank you for asking your GP to test the ingredients for us. Let us know what they find.
Julie
I have been on Erfa for many years and did great up until this last year. I couldn’t figure out why all my hypo symptoms came screaming back. I got brain fog, chronic fatigue, myalgias, constipation, etc. The list goes on and on. I had not heard that Erfa had been reformulated until today. Now it all makes sense.
I have already switched from Erfa a couple months ago to Naturethroid Pure and already feeling better.
Janie Bowthorpe
Julie, you are an example of those thousands out there who are cited as not having complained yet….but it’s probably because they don’t even know what has gone on…yet…or they are still on the old Erfa. 🙁
Lauren
Hi. Julie. Could you please be so kind as to tell me a bit more about the product you switched to? I’m not even familiar with the name. I’ve been taking Erfa 125 mg. for several years. I have some left in the bottle (refilled Nov. 2013), but I need make a plan – now – for what I’m going to do when these are used up, and I need to do it fast! I live in the US, near Los Angeles. Any suggestions/advice you can give me would be appreciated. Thank you!
Evelyn sgrignuoli
Your opinion on armour desiccated thyroid 30mg plus, .75 synthroid. Is there a better T3 med on the market in canada that is more reliable. Your comment is much appreciated. Thank you Evelyn
Janie Bowthorpe
Hi Evelyn. There’s really no need to add T4 to NDT. NDT is 80% T4 anyway. Instead, we just raise NDT to find our optimal amount. Read this page, okay? https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101
Debra
Where are you able to purchase nature thyroid pure at? I am from Canada.
Alenka
If different tablet presses have been used, there is a possibility of the new tablets being firmer, harder, which could influence the absorption. Especially when not taken sublingually. This is something that the retesting of the tablets can’t reveal.
Janie Bowthorpe
Very true, Alenka, as we saw this with Armour….
Clare
I’m not convinced it’s simply an absorption issue. I did a trial and added a 1/2 grain to my usual compounded NDT dose and immediately felt a reaction (pain) to it.
Dianne
I agree, Clare. I had the same painful reaction as you.
Tiffany
I was on Erfa for over 5 years and jumped threw all the red tape to get it sent here in the US as well pay all out of pocket on top of it all! I did this because I LOVED how I felt on it. I am so disappointed in the company to say the least. I knew this was coming. I have already gone through the new process of changing to WP Thyroid in the states instead. I actually picked them up today! I will start them tomorrow!! =) Instead of paying over $100 dollars and waiting weeks, I got me new script for $28 in TWO days! WOW! I guess when sales start to drop maybe then Erfa will take notice. I now no longer recommend Erfa. What a shame!!
Clare
Tiffany – did you order WP online or pick up in person? Did your insurance cover it? I’m looking into this myself, and looking for any information I can find. Thanks!
Lauren
Tiffany, my situation is almost identical to yours. I live in the US — near Los Angeles. Can you tell meore about the WP Thyroid product you switched to? I have been taking Erfa 125mg. Any info you can provide would be very appreciated. Thank you!
Mary Garito
I had heard about the ERFA situation from your excellent site. So I switched to NP Thyroid before ever refilling my next ERFA order. Since then I have been feeling great and I am saving about $40/month. I should have done it sooner!
Also, great letter to Dr. Knafo. Thank you Janie!
Lauren
Hi, Mary … what is NP Thyroid? Do you live in Canada, or the US?
Sandra
When I advised my pharmacist of the change in your “Thyroid” pills he told me that “ANY” change to a drug, not just the formulation but the actual compression of the pill or the coating of a pill warrants a direct notification from the manufacturer to them so they can advise their customers. You have offered different explanations Dr. Knafo to different people at different times during this process, no formula change just the manufacturing facility, no formula change just a new machine compressing the tablets, and to a pharmacist themselves, no formula change just a supplier change and it is clear that you have added a coating of some sort and that is a CHANGE! So to say that it must be those individuals and other issues is a crock and a cop out.
With great fear I am about to start a batch of your new shiny pills and if I start to feel worse than I already do then you will have lost me as a customer and my mother as well.
Shame on your company for not taking responsibility for this disaster.
Angie
Absolutely I want to see the testing that was done.. I hope that it did not begin and end with a comparison of T4 and T3 concentrations. Suggest that the batches where problems were reported be tested via some sort of mass spectrometry (High Resolution, Gas Chromatograph, or Liquid Chromatography) for organic consituents as well as testing for heavy metal contamination. While my labs were not an issue, I visited my primary care physician twice with symptoms that dissipated when I changed form the “new” ERFA to Nature-throid. An important note to be made is that only about 25% of a given customer demographic will take the time and trouble to complain. So the actual number (and I believe I read around 170+ comments) for those having problems is likely far greater. Knafo is a class act, but ERFA is not digging into this the way that they should, IMHO. Both Knafo and his company need to realize that the increase in sales is likely to become a decrease with the loss of STTM endorsement as well as the endorsement of long-time, experienced NDT users.
Janie Bowthorpe
Excellent points, Angie….
Angie
Thank you, Janie..I sent the above to Dr. Knafo on the 12th and have yet to receive a response. Please let us know if/when you get the actual results of testing that ERFA is saying they have done.
Toni
I have some from Oct ’13 and got a new batch from March ’14, which I haven’t taken yet. They look the same, no blotches or shininess. Fingers crossed, but I am already thinking of what I will switch to!
Patricia Dunlop
I have been taking Thyroid by Erfa for 10 years. I think I know by now whether it is working or not. It is not working now. I am done fooling around with my health. I am making other arrangements. I do not intend to crash to prove a point. You are going to lose many customers – not just me.
Clare
I think we need to see the full report referenced in Erfa’s statement to confirm which lots were tested.
Dianne
Yes, we want to see the full test report, Dr. Knafo.
Myriam P.
It’s such a shame… I was so happy to finally get my doctor to prescribe me some Erfa and now I have to switch to another medication. It goes without saying that we don’t have tons of options in Canada for NDT. I hope we’ll hear more from Dr. Knafo. Thank you so much for the update.