Part II: Erfa Canada says new thyroid pills are fine: Thyroid Patients worldwide exclaim HOG WASH!!

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Another nightmare for thyroid patients who depend on Natural Desiccated Thyroid.

If you are new to this subject, 2014 saw new batches of the Canadian Erfa Thyroid come out, along with patients worldwide reporting a return of hypothyroid symptoms in the worst way…sooner or later. It was eerily similar to what happened with Armour thyroid in 2009 after Forest Labs changed the way the pill was made. 

You can read about this travesty with Erfa Thyroid on the following May 8, 2014 blog post page, here: //www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2014/05/08/dear-erfa-canada-stop-nonsense-change-desiccated-thyroid-back/  It is followed by a massive amount of posts, comparing batch numbers as well as symptoms which have returned. It’s all a must read!

This morning, I received a message from a thyroid patient who heard from Dr. Knafo, the Medical Director at Erfa Canada 2012 Inc. He stated to her:

We just received all the retesting on the product and everything looks fine on our end. Did you have a blood test done ?

In other words, when you look at his last question, the implication is the same that has been stated to others: that the symptoms which she has seen return on the new Erfa Thyroid are about HER, not about the pills.

But we also now have an official announcement from Dr. Knafo, and is exactly what I feared would be stated: 

Dear All,

I wanted to thank all of you for your response and wanted to update you on the results we got from the retesting done by an independent lab. All the side effects reported were sent to Health Canada and all the retesting were done by a reputable independent lab.

We got about 70 patients reporting to us and there was 55 lack of efficacy reports. Half of the time we had the lot number and we could do an analysis of which lot were involved. There was NO relations between the batches involved and the side effects reported as many batches (50%) were trace back to our older production. Regardless, we decided to retest the batches that were involved (both from the older factory and new one) and sent everything to an independent lab.

There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other. We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique.

We have over 10,000 patients in Canada only and reports from Canadian patients were much less in numbers. We cannot explain why many of you are experiencing those symptoms however I think the right approach is to take every single case separately and understand if there is no other variables involved. The number of reports are however consistent with the increase of sale (we sold 3 times more Thyroid in the past year).

The test results are available in our office for anyone that wants to consult them.

I hope this update clarify a bit more the situation and action we put in place. Please feel free to contact me anytime.
Regards,

Dr H. Knafo
Medical Director ERFA Canada 2012 inc.

And I want to make my response to Dr. Knafo public here:

Dear Dr. Knafo,

Thank you for the kind way in which you expressed yourself concerning the testing of the “new” Erfa Thyroid by an Independent lab.

I want to underscore to you that the reason Erfa has seen a three-fold increase in its sales last year is because Erfa used to be a great product for all involved. Patients had found it to be as excellent as the “old” Armour used to be for decades, plus they have always loved that they can do Erfa Thyroid sublingually. Additionally, many patients in Europe have had access to Erfa, which was important when knowledge about Natural Desiccated Thyroid is so pitiful in Europe.

Understand that I have worked directly with patients for 12 years as an activist for better thyroid treatment. Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) changes lives and is proven over and over by worldwide patient experiences to be a much better hypothyroid treatment than T4-only. It even edges out the combination of T4 and T3 by its positive effects!

Granted, there are many patients who have reported not doing well on NDT over the past decade. But that wasn’t because NDT didn’t work. We figured out early on that there are two main reasons why NDT may not seem to work: a cortisol issue (low or high), and/or low iron. So patients learned that they must get the right testing for both of those, know how to read the results, and treat both before they will do well with NDT. You can read about all this here: //www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me

And of course, some reported NDT not working because they were being held hostage to the TSH lab test, which we as informed patients know is the WORST test to be dosed by. You will remain under-dosed if a doctor goes by the TSH range. Read this: //www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless

So because of all the above, I had to discern if all these complaints about the “new” Erfa Thyroid were actually because of any of the above.

But Dr. Knafo, I quickly saw that no, the vast majority were not. The bulk of complaints…and bad experiences…have been coming from patients who were doing wonderfully on Erfa Thyroid for awhile, only to see their symptoms return exactly when they started using the pills that were now being made at a different facility.

You stated in your announcement: There was no difference in concentration from one batch to the other. We did not change our formulation, suppliers nor our manufacturing technique. What is missing from that statement is that you have, in fact, stated to others than Erfa Thyroid did change the facility in which the pills are made. And as far as the “manufacturing technique”…patients clearly see a difference in the “new” batches. They are now slightly shinier, the indentations are deeper, and the new pills have a blotchy look that wasn’t there before.

The photo above shows the difference between the old and new.

Of course, we don’t know if what we are observing in the new pills explains anything. All patients DO know is that all-too-many of them are seeing their hypothyroidism return with the new Erfa Thyroid.

I think you are a sincere man, Dr. Knafo. We appreciate that about you. But…something has, in fact, changed in Erfa Thyroid. And to dismiss the growing overall body of patients worldwide who are not doing well anymore on Erfa thyroid is a bad move, just as it’s insensitive to state that that there are no other variables involved so thus, it must be about the individual circumstances.

Sincerely,

Janie A. Bowthorpe. M.Ed.
//www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
https://www.facebook.com/StoptheThyroidMadness
//www.laughinggrapepublishing.com

P.S. Go back and read all the comments on the May 8th blog post linked above. It’s patently clear that the new Erfa Thyroid has changed, whether testing says otherwise.

UPDATE: thyroid patient S. compiled the following as of August 2015 and these represent expiration dates:

The good batches (no one reported them as bad, and one or more people reported them as good) are: 8/15 (reported by 3 people) and 4/17 (4 reports).

Some batches were reported as both good and bad by different people: 5/17, 7/17, 7/16, 2/17, 10/16, 3/15.

Some were reported only as bad: 11/15 (3 reports); 11/17 (1 report); 3/16 (3 reports); 8/17 (3 reports).

No reports for 1/17, 3/17 or 6/17 so these are unknown.

Important note: STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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1,285 Responses to “Part II: Erfa Canada says new thyroid pills are fine: Thyroid Patients worldwide exclaim HOG WASH!!”

  1. Margaret Del Castillo says:

    i TOOK SYNTHROID FOR OVER 20 YEARS I HAD DIARRHEA EVERY DAY I HAVE BEEN ALLERGIC TO MILK ALL MY LIFE, WHEN I CPOMPLAINED ABOUT THE LACTOSE ALL I WAS EVER TOLD WAS TAKE METAMUCIL WHICSH MADE THINGS WORSE FOR ME. I DECIDED TO CHECK THE ABBOTT LABS SITE PAGE AFTER PAGE SAID NOTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DOCTORS PAGE AND THE INGREDIENT LIST SHOWED LACTOSE. I ASKED MY DOCTGOR IF HE KNEW THAT AND HE SAID NO, ERFA HAD JUST COME INTO OUR AREA AND SO AGAINST HIS WISHES HE PRESCRIBED THEM, EVERYTHING WAS GREAT AND THEN I GOT DIARRHEA AGAIN DR KNAFO WAS GONE AND THE NEW DIRECTOR WAS A WOMAN SHE TOLD ME ERFA ALWAYS HAD LACTOSE, I TOLD HER THAT WASN’T TRUE. ANYWAY THEY ARE OFF THE MARKET HERE IN WINNIPEG COSTCO WON’T CARRY THEM ANYMORE EVEN IF THEY COME BACK SO I TALKED MY NEW DOCTOR INTO HAVING THE DRUG STORE MAKE THEM FOR ME, SHE COMPLIED. I AM NOW INTO THE 8TH MONTH AND FEEL GREAT. THEY GOST $ 1.84 EACH BUT IT IS WELL WORHT IT, I DID NOT GO TO ANY GATHERINGS FOR 10 YEARS WORRYING ABOUT HAVING THE RUNS. NOW I AM FREE AND GO EVERYWHER UNAFRAID.

  2. Mary Huber says:

    I took Armour Thyroid for many years until Forest Lab… (I believe) Changed the ingredients… NO MORE T3!! I Am suffering now from many conditions. I changed to ERFA Thyoid 10 years ago. Im MUCH worse. I rrecently changed to Thyrovanz.. Hoping this will be my magic fix !

    • Hi Mary. Armour still has T3. The key to making most NDT’s work is being OPTIMAL, not just “in range”. We also need to have optimal iron and optimal cortisol to successfully raise NDT to find our optimal dose. It’s all explained here: http://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101

    • Kim Pasacreta says:

      I started taking Armour in 2010 I lost weight, felt so much better I bought it directly from my Naturopath. Then when the Naturopaths were able to write prescriptions I was put on Efra it was ok in the beginning. But I have regained all my weight back, I feel slow & depressed. I totally believe that they changed the formula.
      So what do we Canadians use if we have to use something?
      Can we get NP Thyroid from the USA?

  3. Dean says:

    Sure np for me to email you Nohan, just let me know hwo?

  4. Nohan says:

    Hi Dean, I’m in Canada and if it’s ok with Jane, you can email me.
    Thanks,
    Nohan

  5. dean says:

    Thank you Janie I will join that group also, didnt know it existed till now and glad it does.

    • Dee says:

      Dean, I’m just wondering where you get the large bottles of ERFA, if you don’t mind saying. I’m in Canada, too. Thank you. I’m also in the FB FTPO Canada group.

      • Dean says:

        Hi Dee, I send my prescriptions to Haber’s compounding pharmacy in Toronto, cause it used to be much cheaper than in Quebec but now the prices seem to be the same in every province. But i think every pharmacy can order a years supply with a doctors script. It would cost me 150$ shipped to my house for 1 year 750 2 grains tabs, now its close to 500$.
        If you know of another place to order that cheaper pls post it.
        Thank you,
        Dean

        • Dee says:

          Thanks for the information Dean. I’m really not sure of prices elsewhere because I haven’t been on any thyroid hormones for over a year now. I’m doing this unmedicated for the time being, and it ain’t pretty. 😉 I’m also in the FB FTPO group, but haven’t checked it in quite awhile.

  6. dean says:

    Hi everyone, I’ve been on Erfa Thyroid for 13-14 years, my dose has stabilized at 4-4.5 grs I take it all in the morning between 7-9:30 am, I break it up and let it melt under my tongue in small pieces.
    I have’nt noticed any change in its effectiveness and I order it for the year in one big bottle always. I have gone through the different formulations of it and I don’t seem to be affected in a negative way by it.
    Only thing i did’nt like was the price shooting up 300%.
    I live in Mtl,Qc, and over here its extremely hard to find a doctor to dose you properly they all go by the tsh test which doesnt work for me cause I’m at 0.02 tsh.
    My question is where can I get other types of desiccated thyroid hormone if Erfa becomes much harder to find?
    And does anyone here have any good doctors to recommend in the greater Montreal area that prescribe Thyroid?
    Hope everyone here health as I know this disease is hard to get a handle on.
    I have Hashis, I am 55 years old, and feel good considering.
    Thank you,
    Dean

    • Hi Dean. If no one responds here, I would recommend joining the Facebook FTPO Canada group. Everyone there is in Canada and could provide the best info. Note that the admins have to see either your wall posts or friends list on your facebook page to know you aren’t a spammer. Once you are approved, you can close all that back up if that’s desired.

      • Wendy says:

        Hi there, I can’t seem to find the Canadian thyroid group on Facebook – does it still exist? I am taking ndt and getting it at a Rexall …. my MD is old and on my recommendation is letting me try it,..,, but he prescribes a small dose once a day. I am not thinking it’s optimal at all….. and looking for more info. thanks

    • Catherine Métayer says:

      Hi Dean,

      May I ask which doctor in Montreal prescribes Erfa? I am currently with a doctor who is insisting on me taking synthetic T3/T4, I’ve been on it for 8 months and it’s just not working. When I lived in the USA, I used to take NP Thyroid and loved it and I am thinking Erfa might be the equivalent? Thank you so much!

    • Rose says:

      hi, I was on Erfa’s ND for years. I finally lost weight, everything was going back to normal. I was happy. Then they absolutely changed their formula 2 years ago, and I was vomiting and sick 24/7. Between new and old batches, taste, smell and look were changed. My old pills tasted of dry liver. The new pills were sweet and left bad aftertaste in mouth. I complained to health Canada. I have been on a rollercoaster. Now stuck on Synthroid, I have no energy gained lots of weight, and feel sick all the time. I feel like time us just wasting away.
      I am in Quebec, and I must go back to ND and was looking into thyroid S. My Dr. at the Jewish General, supports me and is amazing. He is not opposed to nd and has worked with me. I mentioned going on thyroid S and the only thing he said is, are u sure u want to start all over? I said yes. I know nd is better for me. Get a referral to Dr. Trifiro in Endocrinology. He is so nice.
      I see him next month, and hopefully I can get off synthroid.

    • Hi Dean,I’m jumping in here a year later…. wonder if people are still having problems with ERFAetc. I discovered WP THyroid last year , after 15 years on Synthroid/SRT3, and I felt like I had my life back. Then, there was a shortage, August 2018, the company stopped making if for a while, then moved their facilities to Costa Rica I believe and the new batches are aweful. On their other product, Nature Thyroid I started huffing and puffing despite being in really good shape. It got so that climbing my house stairs to our second floor made me short of breath. The day I stopped it, i returned to normal. When WP was availble again, I was so happy, only to discover that I got very short of breath again on WP. Now I found a doctor in Kirkland, QC in the ACCESS med clinic and he doesn’t go by TSH (not many doctors in Quebec know what they are doing with thyroid). I got his name from the compounding pharmacy Pearson &Cohen in Westmount. They deliver/send all over. I am starting ERFA this morning, with a lot of reservation, after reading all these comments. Wondering if anyone has found the batches have improved over the last year.

      • Irina says:

        Hi
        I had my ERFA RX renewed in January of 2019, and have experienced many health problems since then. I have been on 1.5 grains (90mg) for the past 10 years, and did not have the problems I have now-high blood pressure, chest pains, exhaustion. Ended up in the emerg last month with what was diagnosed as thyroid storm,but I believe the emerg dr. did not understand that my levels were OK:TSH under .5, high free T3, with T4 in the lower range. They had me discontinue my NDT for 3 days, and then take half of my normal dose. Have yet to see an Endocrinologist, and my dr. Does not want to do anything. I have a bottle of older NDT that I am going to use to try to increase back to 1.5 grains to try and determine if there was indeed a change to the ERFA formulation. If I start to feel better again on the old meds, I will need to look for another supplier.

        • There have been reports over the last 3 years or so about Erfa having changed. But you also seem to have a cortisol problem now causing the free T3 to go high like that and due to being underdosed for so long. It just finally hit you. 90mg is hardly ever optimal. Thus the adrenals become stressed over time.

        • Nohan says:

          We are so limited for choices here in Canada, but some of my friends and family here are just getting the Thailand stuff of a Facebook page and are quite happy with it….and apparently the delivery is fairly quick…so I’d say that is the best route….and I still maintain that Erfa changed the ingredients the day they purchased the company…

  7. Nohan says:

    I think a lot of people have moved on to other sources….

  8. Elina says:

    I used synthroid for more than 20 years, but started feeling terrible again more frequently even with normal blood results. Then I found out that I have Hashmoto and low vitamin D so two days ago I started taking 50,000 of vitamind D and switched from Synthroid (125 mcg) to ERFA (2 pills of 60mg). No idea yet if it will work but I am scared about the lack of consistency of the ERFA and my lack of options as I live in Canada. Any recent news or feedback on that?

    • What I notice is that there are “less” comments about Erfa not doing as well. But can’t say that’s due to it being better, or people lowering their expectations, or people raising it higher than they did before. We do still get a few bad comments about it.

      • Dee says:

        It’s possible that there are fewer bad comments on ERFA because people have given up on it… I know I have. Well, make that, I hold out 1% hope.

        • Rose says:

          I agree, I moved on and I am sure everyone else who was ill from new formulations had to move on, so the lack of comments might be due to people changing scripts.

    • tyrafenn says:

      Hi, Elina. Don’t know if this suggestion might be helpful or not but I have a Canadian friend who has to get her thyroid NDT compounded instead of taking Erfa. It has been a while since we discussed it but I think she was allergic to something in Erfa or has a bad reaction to it? And this reaction was happening a long time before Erfa switched mfg facilities.

    • By the way, Elina, I hope you have studied what optimal is, even with Erfa and if it will work. It’s explained in the green graphic here: http://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101

  9. Dee says:

    Did Health Canada ever come back with the test results of the ERFA tablets? First mentioned here in April 2016, I believe… Thanks.

    • Lydia M says:

      I think the results were normal otherwise we would have heard about it !
      I’m quite reassured about that. Erfa works very well on me for 5 years now 🙂

  10. Jenny Blue says:

    I’ve been using ERFA bought from Inhouse Pharmacy shipped to the UK because I dont need a script (cant get one anyway) and have been mostly doing far better than any of the other meds available without a script…just checking my last order details on the website and notice all strengths are now discontinued. As there was some mention earlier of there being a potential shortage of porcine thyroid, I wonder if anyone knows anything more about this atall. I realise there has been quite a bit of controversy surrounding this brand in recent years and wonder if they are reformulating finally, or if it has been permanently withdrawn…I will be seriously in trouble if I cant get any once my current supply runs out…all other brands made me ill.

    • We are not seeing other brands have shortages, so I doubt it. Erfa is being secretive as to what might be going on. Since you react to all other brands, I would sure find out if cortisol or iron are problematic and you don’t realize it…

      • Patti G says:

        I order Erfa from UDS in Canada (having problems too, BTW, like I had after Amour changed their formulation), and the last order a month ago was triple in price. Did some research, found that there has been an ongoing catastrophic (more or less) virus killing piglets in the U.S. No one has much of a handle on it yet, and as it has continued, porcine thyroid has become less available. Hence the sudden rise in price.

      • Rose says:

        Hi Janie, Erfa told me over the phone that they had a shortage. They said this was the reason for inflating the price. They said they now were supplying the USA, and some European countries, and had a shortage of porcine to supply everyone. They were very strange with me over the phone because I reported them to Health Canada. They definitely have lied to me numerous times, so they are hiding something and there were changes in their stories. I know that supplying outside of Canada may not be legal- and shortcuts were possibly taken to meet demands. I am surprised with Health Canada. They did not get back to me. I will touch base with them again. It’s possible they were fined and everything was made to be swept under the rug.

      • Jara-Lynn says:

        Erfa Thyroid, under the umbrella name Forest Pharmaceuticals Canada. which at one point you were re-directed to Allergan’s site on the internet.
        Yep, Allergan who is response for the manufacture of Thyroid and who exercised a 300% price hike, continues to have shortages as we are seeing right now!
        Thyroid, a drug once covered by OHIP and then de-listed because the price hike could not be justified!
        If you do your own sleuthing, you would see how crooked Allergan is.

  11. Adam says:

    Hello Janie,

    Have you ever seen people who have a suppressed TSH, FT3 exactly at the upper limit of the range, but the FT4 a little below the limits of the range with ERFA and no problem with RT3? I have been using ERFA for 2 years and my FT4 does not go up, while my FT3 is still on the top of the range. All my iron tests (4 tests) are optimal according to your book and the saliva tests for cortisol are also optimal? I am in Canada, so I have no choice but ERFA. I feel a little better than with Synthroid, but I never lost weight with ERFA.

    Thank you
    Adam

    • What you are describing is called pooling, which means you have an iron or cortisol issue. http://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling

    • Jenn says:

      I do the same thing…tsh is suppressed but free t3 is always in the middle and free t4 is on the low end of the ref range. I have never had my rt3 checked but i will ask next time. I have non classic congenital adrenal hyperplasia and do not make much cortisol, i make more androgens instead (high testosterone levels). Could that be my problem too? I am on 4 grains of erfa a day. TIA
      Jenn

      • Your frees sound more like you need a raise, but we learned how important it is to check RT3 before doing so, as a high RT3 can mess up the frees, too.

        • Jenn says:

          thanks! i will have him check that before doing anything! I am 46 with some hormonal issues too (hot flashes, weight gain,etc)…i just want to feel halfway good again 🙁
          No I want to feel 100% good again!!

  12. Ellen says:

    Ok Janie. I will look into this. I ordered a cortisol saliva test. Two things have happened to me lately. I wonder if they are exacerbating thyroid problems. I am wearing braces to correct a bite – a long story but I have very bad jaw joints – deformed actually some of the problem stemmed from a bite imbalance. Wearing braces causes a lot of strain on my head with headaches and neck aches and seems to even cause imbalances in the muscles of the body. 2) I was exposed to mold and had to move because of it. It was a very difficult experience in which I became very sensitive to mold. Even after I moved some of my things have mold dust in them. My chest is much improved and I use ionizing air purifiers. Would those life events somehow cause the situation I\’m in now?

  13. Ellen says:

    New-found info. based on my symptoms. Background: Switched to Naturethroid from ERFA few weeks ago because I thought something was off with ERFA. After 2 weeks I know it\\\\\’s my body reacting differently than it ever had before. I read about people becoming reactive to T4. I\\\\\’ve only ever taken NDT (never synthetic T4) but I think it\\\\\’s possible it\\\\\’s not working for me too well anymore because of the T4. I just got some blood work done but haven\\\\\’t got the results back yet. MD ordered reverse T3. I am going to go to a different MD through. I found him through T3 only yahoo group – Dr. Michael Morris.He doesn\\\\\’t live too far from me. I hope he\\\\\’s ok. I also bought a book about T3 by Paul Robinson – what a pain he takes it exactly same time – 4X a day.

    So I don\\\\\’t think ERFA is a problem. It\\\\\’s a change in me and I have to figure it out. Have been having hypo symptoms on ERFA and still having them currently on Naturethroid – constipation, low energy, depression, temp. that at its highest won\\\\\’t go above 98. I\\\’m not sure about the T4 problem but could be. Sucks.

    • Ellen, it’s not about becoming reactive to T4. It’s that you may now have either low iron or a cortisol problem, for one. Either can cause T4 to start converting to more and more RT3. And the reason you may not have done well on the switch from Erfa to Naturethroid is because Erfa became less effective, yes, but the same amount of Naturethroid could have been too strong, and could be revealing issues with iron or cortisol. Start here: http://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol

  14. Nohan says:

    Hi, ya, I’m happy with them. They are an old Vancouver compounding pharmacy and Dr. Thorpe is the one to talk to….very knowledgeable…..so you might want to phone him with questions. It’s easy, once set up, I just phone for a refill and it’s mailed promptly.

    Good Luck,
    Nohan
    PS I maintain that when Erfa first purchased the company from Parke Davis or whoever, the quality was lost….as I was on the original stuff and never had a problem….they are untrustworthy in my opinion

    https://krippspharmacy.com/

    • Jenn says:

      Thanks so much Noahn. I thrived on erfa when I first started it just like when i first started armour prior to 2009. I am in the US so I hope that won’t make a difference.
      Jenn

      • Rene says:

        Dear Janie, Nohan, and Jenn…. what have you switched to then since the original armour thyroid and original erfa have been both reformulated? I am trying to find a good substitute myself… thanks for your ideas and insight! I have had a total thyroidectomy so supplementation to me is super critical, and I have been suffering with hypo and hyper symptoms both over the last year or two when it became unavailable and on a shortage. They too denied to me there was any change and I order it from NorthwestPharmacy.com in Canada. I know better, I’ve been on thyroid meds since my early 30’s and I am now age 54. I started with synthroid, then armour thyroid, lastly erfa thyroid. As a last resort the last month or so I have been taking my thyroid sublingually…. I take it in 3 divided doses throughout the day, a total of 5-6 grains.

  15. Nohan says:

    Hi,
    I’m using compounded thyroid from New Zealand sold through Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver. I get 120 – 60’s for about 100.00 plus 6.00 shipping. They say that they ship all over the world.

    • Jenn says:

      Nohan, I am interested in the new zealand formula. I have been ordering erfa and it just isn’t doing much for me 🙁
      Thank you,
      Jenn

  16. Sandra says:

    I am in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows if there is still only Erfa’s thyroid available to us? I was sure I read on a message board somewhere of another dessicated thyroid prescription product. If anyone knows the name, please share.
    With all that is happening and now a triple in price of Erfa, can we not lobby to allow other brands into our country and why has there been an incredible increase that is going to prevent those on limited incomes from buying it? How can they get away with this?

  17. Ellen says:

    Just figured out that currently on ERFA I have symptoms of hypo. I’ve been taking ERFA 3 1/2 gr. for a good 6-8 months. I’m going to switch at this point – go to the MD and take the one he sells which is either Naturethroid or Westthroid. I never know if it just me and body stresses or if it’s the ERFA underperforming but I’m suspicious. Been more angry, moody and just took my temp and it’s too low. Drats.

    • I don’t blame you for changing brands. There have just been too many reported problems with Erfa not to suspect it. I would personally also make sure iron is where it should be….too….just in case.

      • Ellen says:

        First day on Naturethroid yesterday. Felt so much better – MD told me to just switch and take same amount as what I was taking. But I was having symptoms of hypothyroid on ERFA even though having gone to 4 gr. I don’t actually know what my true dosage is. I was buzzed last night like coffee and could not sleep half the night. This am – tired. I took 1 1/2 gr. and will try going down to 3 gr. instead of 3 1/2 and make sure to take 2nd dose not too late – I usually like 1:30pm. OR SHOULD I START OVER? I’ve been on ERFA for years.

  18. Dee says:

    I spoke to a pharmacist last week who said there is another porcine thyroid shortage and that’s why it’s so hard to get and the prices are so high as a result. Maybe that’s why they can’t order the larger sizes of new ERFA right now. Another pharmacist I spoke to said that some of the thyroid hormone producers were shut down because of low quality product. Not sure if this was just producers in the US or in other thyroid-hormone-producing countries as well – and this is just what I heard so I can’t verify this – and maybe I shouldn’t pass that along… BUT, from personal experience, since old ERFA has stopped being produced, I haven’t been able to find an alternative ndt that agrees with me.

    • pat says:

      Same here Dee… Something has changed for sure. I have tried them all and hypo symptoms returned. I would alternate as I tried each new NDT. Each time I tried a new brand and got sick I’d go back to taking my “old” erfa tabs and instantly symptoms would subside. My Doctor noticed the problem as well. Now all my “old” erfa is gone and the new “ERFA” is crap and I am stuck taking Nature-throid which was the least offensive but still just does not compare to “old” erfa. No one I personally know seems to be feeling like they used to before all these changes started taking place. My doctor told me all her patients including herself are feeling it and she doesn’t have the answer…

      • Pat, I used to be on the old Erfa, and am still doing just as well on NP Thyroid. Make sure you are optimal on Naturethroid, which may be a different amount than when you were on the old Erfa.

  19. Jen says:

    My pharmacy can still order Thyroid ! It’s just that erfa doesn’t sell the big size anymore. I think pharmacies had the choice before between the 100 and 500 sizes (not sure for the quantities)
    So nothing change for us 🙂

  20. the_pan says:

    Just phoned my pharmacy today and they told me they can no longer order Erfa Thyroid… so they are still working on reforming it. Other than Thailand sourced NDT what are our options? Seems sketchy considering we don’t know all the ingredients with some of them and with others they have aluminum. Nutri-Meds looks good but my brother thinks ordering anything online won’t make it across the border anyway. A compounding pharmacy would be a last resort for me because I don’t look forward to convincing my DR I need it.

    • Thyrogold. 🙂 Or adding T3 to that T4.

    • Dee says:

      Well that’s interesting that your pharmacy can no longer get ERFA. Is it your understanding that ERFA may be having problems selling their newly formulated Thyroid and that they may be going back to the old formula?

      Also about Nutri-meds and Thyrogold, I’m in Canada and have had no issues getting either one shipped to me. I do have issues with the extra ingredients in ThyroGold, though, but I may be one of the few. I have some older stock Nutri-meds from when they were selling porcine from New Zealand, but they can no longer get the porcine or the bovine from their old supplier, so they have switched to a bovine formula with added ingredients. Plus, most people find Nutri-meds isn’t very strong.

      Please let us know about the ERFA, thanks.

  21. Kate says:

    Thanks Janie:-)

  22. Anna says:

    About Thai NDT: there is a fairly new drug simply called TR by TMan Pharma (first reports about it are from late 2015). It has a thin sugar coating which is said to make the pill dissolve in the lower intestine rather than in the stomach, meaning more thyroid hormone will potentially be absorbed by the body as it’s not destroyed by stomach acid…this sounds almost too good to be true. I’d be interested to know if anyone has tried this brand and what your impression is? Also, which brand is the best as far as the other two are concerned: Thyroid-S or Thiroyd? Both have been getting great reviews online for years, but I am not sure about all the fillers and binders in Thyroid-S…I’m especially worried about aluminium and its long-term use (as this is going to be a life-long treatment in my case). On the other hand, it’s said to contain a slow-release agent making it last longer in the body…any input welcome as I have decided not to go down the Erfa road.

    • Kate says:

      I’d also be interested in other people’s opinion as I am currently hesitating between the three brands of NDT. They’ve all got great reviews, although TR not so many (yet) as it has not been available that long…like others, I am not too crazy about the aluminium and other fillers in Thyroid-S but, having said that, it does seem to work great. I have hardly found any negative reviews online, although it has been around since Armour was reformulated eight or nine years ago, which means it must work despite all the fillers…if anyone could tell me which brand works best for you, I’d really appreciate it. Even if Thai NDT is only a fraction of the cost of prescription NDT, I’d still prefer to order a brand many people can vouch for.

    • There are reports from people the last year or so who are very pleased with TR. Same with Thyroid-S and Thiroyd.

  23. Linda Osmond says:

    I am wondering where things stand with ERFA now, from reports. I remember the Armour disaster, and it was this site that allowed me to tell my doctor and pharmacists what was going on! How crazy is that. The ones that are “supposed to know” had no clue. Glad I am my own advocate, but that was ridiculous.

    So, I’ve been on ERFA since the Armour switch, and I really liked it. I was just going to refill my Rx for ERFA through Universal Drugstore (Canada), but for some reason, I decided to do a little research on other options. Then I read the reports here about ERFA changing. Well, I think I was probably affected but didn’t realize what it was. I, too, had to increase my dose and had terrible problems that I attributed to other factors…which they might have been due to, but now I wonder.

    I’ve had various bottles of ERFA at different doses, so I went and checked a bottle of 60’s and a bottle of 30’s that I got filled 12/08/2015 but had not opened. Both filled by the same pharmacy, Altec Drug Services, Winnipeg, MB (3 year old pharmacy, I see online), same fill date, etc. However, the 30’s look like the old type, and the 60’s look more mottled and a little darker in color. I had been taking another batch of 60’s from 4-2015 fill date, and they, too, look the new type.

    One thing I am also curious about — My bottles look nothing like the white ones with colored labels that I saw in the linked post. Mine are just brown Rx bottles with the Altec Drug label, stating the medication as “Thyroid (60mg)” and elsewhere on the bottle it has “ERF”. No expiration dates, as everyone is talking about. DIN: 00023949 on the 30mg. DIN: 00023957 on the 60mg. Does anything seem off-base that I described?

    Now that I know about the ERFA change or problems, I’m wondering if I might want to switch, but I’d like to hear the update on what’s been going on lately. And if there is a “most-preferred” brand right now, I’d love ot hear that, too. Thanks for all that you do in keeping us informed!

    • Jen says:

      Hello Linda,
      I can maybe help you on 2 points.
      First for the brown bottles it’s normal. Pharmacies often use their own Rx bottles instead of the official ones. No idea why. Maybe because they’re proud of their colors 😉 . Anyway don’t worry about it I receive my ERFA in that kind of bottles for years.
      And concerning the “old pills” “new pills” thing, honestly I’ve noticed the difference only in the aspect. I’m responding well on Erfa since 2007 now. I have to increase my dosage every 2 years or so when I feel more hypo but I think it’s part of the hypothyroidism problem. My doctor is well informed about NDT and he changes my prescription when I need it.
      Honestly if you feel good on Erfa I don’t know if you should switch… You would have to restart your treatment from the ground and it’s difficult for the body to adapt. A friend did that once and it had been very hard for her.
      I hope it answered your questions a bit.

  24. Cathy Poland says:

    I both called and emailed Erfa about the price rise. I asked if the factory in Spain raised the price or made some changes. They said that the raw material provider from US has increased the price so much and they’re looking for another source and that there was no change in Spain, either to the product or the price.

  25. Cathy Poland says:

    I’ve been getting Erfa from Pharmaprix on Pierrefond boulevard, just West of St. Jean’s boulevard in West Island, Quebec. I got a bottle of 60’s (they didn’t have any 125mg’s) Oct. ’16, Exp. 11/2018 LF06221A. This week I got a bottle of 125mg expiry date: 07/2017 Lot 14G021. I don’t know why they gave me such a early expiry date this time. Maybe they’re off loading older stuff. So, that’s all I know.

  26. Shawn says:

    I order ERFA Thyroid from cananadian pharmacy which gets it from Accuscreen pharmacy. They don’t have stock beyond the batch that is 4/2017. If anyone has an Erfa Thyroid batch that is a good batch with a later expiration date (in 2018), please provide pharmacy details and say if they ship to USA. Thanks.

  27. Cathy Poland says:

    Last year when I bought a bottle of Erfa 125 mg it cost about $90. Now for the same thing, it costs over $300. Anyone know why this huge increase?

    • Dee says:

      I would pay $300 if ERFA would go back to the way it was before this disaster. Having said that, the price increase is wrong. I think once ERFA realized it had such a big market beyond Canada, everything went for crap.

  28. Rose says:

    I have been violently ill for the last 5 days and low and behold for the 3rd time this year, it is because of a bad batch of ERFA NDT.
    Here is the lot number: LF06222A EXP. 11/2018
    Symptoms are: vomiting with some blood, extreme nausea that will not cease, confusion, palpitations, sweats, lack of appetite, head pains, side left pains, ringing of ears on and off, unable to stay awake and alert for more than eight hours per day.
    I was given an expiraton of 05/2019, and if this fails me, I have no medication I can take left. I am seeking an alternative. I also need to know what damage was done to my body. I have written to Erfa and the Health Board of Canada. I discovered a weakness on part of Erfa that can force disclosure of new formulation, and investigation of the drug. We have to live in hopes, that this will prompt someone to take action and give us back the original formula and stop making us sick.
    NOTE: the bad medication tastes of sugar at first then goes metallic and leaves dry mouth or it tastes of pure chemicals. The old medication tasted almost like liver. The old had a solid color and new has prominent speckles in it.

    • Dee says:

      Rose, did you ever hear back from ERFA or Health Canada regarding investigating ERFA? I had similar bad reactions to new ERFA. I’m also taking nothing (no ndt) right now, and worried about the consequences of that, and I too live in hope that ERFA will go back to the way it was.

    • JENNIFER ASHER says:

      I pray that we get answers!!!
      My tsh is 0.006 but my free t3 and free t4 are mid range. My integrative dr now wants to take me down to 2.5-3 grains from 4…not happening and I am so disappointed!! I know when I am over medicated and right now I surely am not!!
      Jenn

      • That is a definite thing we learned years ago…that we canNOT be dosed by the TSH. It’s normal for it go quite low while on NDT. Sorry you have to find out that your doctor is so backwards and brainwashed by his medical school training….:(

        • JENNIFER ASHER says:

          Thanks! I know that myself and I thought HE knew that too because he had seen my last tsh of .007 and said that he went by symptoms! My temp was up so he must think that I am getting too much but I was actually getting sick. I am going to call and discuss all of this and point out that my free t’s were fine…..plus my weight is up so i am not over dosed.
          Jenn

  29. DB says:

    Just got a new bottle of Erfa 30mg, lot # LF06630A, expiry 02/2019. Anybody experiencing any problems with it?

  30. DB says:

    Sandra, is the product you switched to Thyroid-S?

  31. Sandra says:

    I find it interesting that since Oct 19th there are no comments on this page so hope that this gets published not that it makes a difference to what has happened in the past as my story is the same as those deeply affected by Erfa’s Thyroid.
    Since switching to another brand from Erfa, I am feeling so much better and if I can help it will not ever use Erfa’s thyroid again. My life as everyone elses here is too precious.
    Wishing everyone all the best.

  32. Sandra says:

    I was very disappointed with this brand. The product is very unstable from batch to batch.
    It was impossible for me to get a normal life with this product, as everytime the batch changes it is a whole readjustment to make with hypo/hyper bad weeks. And finally my last batch from this brand, which was terribly weak, leads me to switch medication brand.

  33. Kathy says:

    I have just been prescribed Erfa lot ” LF05829A expiry: 10/18. This is my first attempt at taking NDT after 8 years on synthroid and wondering if there are still problems with Erfa?

    • Yes, there do appear to be some continued problems for some people, such as doing fine on one batch, not on the next. And Erfa continues to deny they have changed anything, even though we clearly know they have.

  34. Sandra says:

    Hi Janie,
    So I’m confused by what folks are writing about Kripps as if it was a dessicated thyroid and not a pharmacy. I would love to know what they are taking if it works as I’m in Canada and they ship across Canada. Nohan, I would love to have you clarify for me please what you are taking.
    thank you

  35. Sandra says:

    Has anyone had any issues ordering Thyroid-S. I placed an order tried tracing it to see when it might deliver and I couldn’t. I emailed the company repeatedly and get no reply.
    Further to my hypo symptoms returning on Erfa, extremely dry skin, low grade depression, severe water retention, heart palpitations, lack of focus and concentration, easily overwhelmed. Ain’t life a barrel of monkeys sometimes!
    Erfa should be held accountable.
    To the lady who lives in Canada and had a prescription filled in the U.S. and she drove across the border to get it, is there any legal issues with that. I am meeting my doctor Monday to see if he will do that but think he won’t. I also would be sending my husband to get it as I don’t currently have a passport and so does he just pretend like it is his, which he can’t because it will have my name on it and so are we legally able to bring it back across the border?

    • Nohan says:

      Hi Sandra,
      I live in a Canadian border town and all I had to do was ask my Dr for a copy of my prescriptions and I just keep it in my purse with my passport and show them when I come back to Canada with something.

      Yes, Kripps is an independant pharmacy that has been around a very long time and is well known in Vancouver for their natural/conventional products.

      Kripps Pharmacy
      Address: 5413 West Blvd, Vancouver, BC V6M 3W5
      (604) 687-2564

      I am taking compounded descciated thyroid sourced from New Zealand. I have a good Dr so he faxed a prescription to Kripps for it and I just phone them for a refill and it arrives within the week…and I am very happy with it.

      Nohan

  36. Sandra says:

    It’s been a while since I posted, I had been on Erfa’s Thyroid for years and like everyone else no issues until they made some sort of change. I had been getting good and bad batches and bad batches meant that things went hill again so that each day is a struggle to get by. Good batches meant that I was feeling on top of the world, bring anything on I can handle it. I work full time in the interior design field with stressful deadlines and when an Erfa batch is bad then my life becomes a nightmare of worry that my productivity and creativity, will suffer and affect my job.
    I recently had a good batch that I was so lucky to have been able to buy 3 months worth out of my own pocket instead of insurance coverage and it was a good batch. My old batch symptoms felt long far gone and I revelled in my new happy life but when they ran out, the new batch that I started a month a go took me down again.
    The main symptoms that arise on bad batches for me is low energy, my daily 45 minute walk with good energy on bad batches become a serious struggle and I get what I call achy lungs and easily winded, no stamina to even walk a slight upgrade. My digestion becomes awful and food sensitivities increase dramatically. I want to become a hermit and have nothing to give to anyone outside of my day of work.
    I have given up on Erfa and don’t know what the next step is as calling around to different pharmacy’s trying different batches out of my own expense is becoming as I have done in the past while maybe necessary is so very frustrating and costly.
    I have ready this forum back into June and don’t know what folks are talking about with Dr. Kripps if anyone can clarify for me.
    thank you

      • Sandra says:

        Hi Nohan,
        Thank you for your reply!
        Well that sounds quite simple then, so your doctor calls in the prescription and you take the copy with you so that if customs asks you have a prescription, sounds perfect. I would cross at Niagara Falls Ontario border and was wondering what pharmacy you used successfully.
        Of course it sounds like the easiest is the Kripps pharmacy but of course it will be quite a bit more expensive compared to Erfa?

        • Nohan says:

          Hi Sandra,
          I asked my Dr to write a 4 – 60mcg prescription a day, but I am only taking 3, so 120 – 60mcg.costs me about 110.00 which includes shipping, but even being a pensioner, it’s worth it.

          Hopefully your Border Guards are as nice as ours…I only use it for progesterone and peregnenolone, but I think you can just phone the border and find out the thyroid….

          Nohan

      • Sandra says:

        Thanks Janie!

  37. Nohan says:

    Hi Angie,

    I phoned a few compounding pharmacies and they said they were using Erfa, so I got PO’d and never pursued it,but for awhile, I got some thyroid out of Mexico which I used until I couldn’t get anymore and then I used “T3 Only” until I heard about Kripps.

    On the old thyroid (pre-Erfa) I was taking 180 mcg a day and am using the same dose of Kripps and feeling good.

    For years, I have also been taking Pregnenolone and Pro-Gest E which I believe handles the stress issues.

    Dr. Thorpe said that the resting pule should be < 85 and the temperature should be around 37 C around 98 F.

    I guess I'm of the mind that dessicated thyroid has worked successfully for over a hundred years and didn't need re-inventing, and Kripps fills that space, but the first month I was definitely in the "unknown".

    Also, IF….Efra removed some golden ingrediant from their product, which is now supplied in Kripps, I think it would be subject to the bioaccumlative effect and needs some time.

    When I first went to the old Dr years ago, I had a myriad of problems and just wanted to sleep. One of the last things I said to him was "Are you telling me that this pill is going to fix all these problems?" and he said "Yes, you're going to feel a lot better in a month and you'll be back to your old self shortly after"….and he was right, but it took some time.

    Take care,
    Nohan

    • Angie says:

      Thanks, Nohan. I’ll keep working with the Kripps dose. I have never tried prenenolone. However, have next to no estradiol without supplementing, so progesterone is out.

      • Angie says:

        Hi Nohan: After experimenting with the Kripps dessicated, I found my particular batch very weak. Almost immediately body temps went down to below 97, weight gain/fluid retention, constipation…the usual suspects. I upped the dose from my usual 1 and 3/4 – 1 and 7/8 grain to 2 and even 2 plus and it was as if I wasn’t absorbing it at all, or at least not very well. Currently have what feels like a “good” batch of N-T and am doing reasonably well on that….

        • No matter what amount you are on, do labs after being on an amount for at least 4 weeks! You need a free T3 towards the tip top of the range and a free T4 mid-range. When you’re not there, and a particular batch might be slightly off, you’ll feel it much worse.

  38. Nohan says:

    Hi Angie,
    I was on T3 too, but did not continue with them when I started Kripps. The old Dr said that natural drugs are bioaccumlative and take time to do their thing, unlike a chemical drug which is instant, so I kinda gave myself a month “to get it right”…..but honestly, the first week or so I was uncertain as to where my dose was to end up, but at least I knew I was getting a “complete” natural thyroid replacement.

    180 seems to do the trick, but it’s getting colder here, so I may increase it over the winter…

    Also in the early days, I was taking my temperature and my resting pulse a couple of time a day as Dr Thorpe from Kripps recommended.

    Nohan

    • Angie says:

      Wow, Nohan…I felt the Kripps SRT3 right away and discontinued it. Am now just taking the compounded dessicated.Am watching my temps (which are a little higher right now, around 99.2 yesterday afternoon) and resting pulse (which is about the same for me and my usual, 66-72), I may have a “bug” as I’m achy, coughing, and sneezing, so temps may be more of a reflection of that that anything else is going on. I keep asking the question, maybe not in the right way, but how did you find the Kripps compared to other dessicateds…was it stronger, weaker, about the same? Did you have to take more, less, etc.? Thanks for your input and help!

  39. Angie says:

    On my Kripps meds for the 2nd day…still a little early to tell how well this will work for me, but will sure to report back. I am also very interested in hearing from people that have continued on with ERFA, as to whether (now that ERFA is a little further along in the manufacturing process) they have seen the medicine normalize back to what we were accustomed. Any reports?

  40. Kim says:

    Dear Janie

    Thank you for your information.

    I`ll do my best study.

  41. Kim says:

    I received ERFA Tyroid today from Hong-kong.
    is this any problem?
    I was just going to change to Syntyirod to NDT
    The Lot no LF07082A / Exp : 05/2019

    Thank you

  42. Angie says:

    Just got my Kripps dessicated and SRT3 in the mail today. Will let y’all know how I do on it. It took a while to get the ‘script filled. I did have to call and follow up on an already submitted written order before Kripps got around to filling it. Once they did, however, it came within a week from Vancouver to Virginia.

    • Nohan says:

      Kripps desiccated sure turned my life around…..took some time, but worth it …Good Luck!!!

      • Angie says:

        Thanks, Nohan…still trying to adjust dosage. Did you find it was stronger, weaker, or about the same as ERFA?

        • Nohan says:

          Hi, good for you!!!
          Years ago, I took Canada’s dessicated thyroid when it was “good”, as did a few of my friends and family, but when ERFA bought the company, it no longer worked well for any of us which was known in the first month. In fact, at that time I emailed them and specifically asked if they had changed the formula….and they said that they hadn’t…which was a blatant lie, because it was affecting all 6 of us.

          I know that a lot of people from the US were using it when there was an Armour shortage and were pleased with it, BUT a lot of Canadians who were used to the original thyroid, weren’t and it was just a matter of time before others started complaining.

          What I find strange is the timing around the sale to Erfa and the formula change in Armour around the same time resulted in so many complaints.

          I LOVE Kripps! I played around on it for the first month and then ended up on 180 a day which works well for me and in my opinion is equal to Canada’s original thyroid.

          Good Luck!!!
          Nohan

          • Angie says:

            Thanks, Nohan. I have just been on the Kripps dessicated all by itself (no SR T3) for a few days. I am finding that it is not quite as strong as the ERFA or the Nature-throid. I have taken 1 and 3/4 grains daily (sometimes 2 grains in winter/cold months) for years now. How did you find the dose of Kripps compared?

  43. Reagan says:

    I have GOT to find something else besides Armour. I had to up my dosage already, and was feeling great. Then with my last refill, I have all my symptoms back! This is ridiculous!!! And it is SO expensive!!

    I’d like to try Erfa, but I’m scared I’ll be in the same boat as I am with Armour. Anyone out there using current bottles and it working fine for them?

    If not Erfa, then what should I try?

    Thanks!

    • You are finding out what a lot of folks have on Armour since Activas bought out Forest. Something went wrong with Armour. As far as Erfa, some are still having problems with it, while others are not. It’s a dice game. I use NP Thyroid VERY successfully. Others use WP or Naturethroid with success, too. Go here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment

    • Linda Osmond says:

      Janie, I have 2 questions for you, if you don’t mind answering. Have you (or anyone) contacted the NP Thyroid manufacturer to ask what grade of mineral oil is in their product or to discuss the concerns about contamination? I would guess food-grade, but some of the concerns online about mineral oil are about possible carcinogenic contaminants. I’d like to consider switching to NP Thyroid, as ERFA just came back in stock (30mg only, so far), and it is way more expensive again! Another price increase. I would love to learn anything more about NP and the mineral oil issue.
      My second question is this: When you switched from ERFA to NP Thryoid, did you find it a pretty comparable dose going from one to the other? Thank you so much for any input!

  44. Michelle says:

    I have been using Erfa since Armour was reformulated back in 2010 and LOVED it. When I first read about some bad batches I didn’t think much of it as I’d had zero issues with it. However, when I reordered in January of this year I noticed the pills not only looked different but I was having trouble cutting the tablets in half in order to get my proper dosage of 1 1/2 grains. The pills would just crumble. I’ve been doing this for YEARS so knew something was obviously off but still went ahead and took them. Within a few days I started getting really itchy along my collar bone and broke out in hives. I didn’t know what was causing it at the time and thought maybe I was having a reaction to something else until about 2 weeks later I put two and two together and realized it started right after I began the new batch of Erfa. I still had enough of my old bottle left to test out my theory and within a few days of stopping the new ones the rash began clearing. I tested it out 3 separate times and each time got the same reaction so I contacted Erfa after speaking with the pharmacist who said the company should know about my reaction. Erfa denied any changes other than moving their manufacturing facility from Belgium to Spain. She said they’d had several complaints about the change in the way they look but couldn’t figure out why because the formula was the same…. sorry but you don’t break out in hives for nothing when you’ve been taking the exact same meds for years with no trouble. I even brought in my old Erfa and the new Erfa to my doctor who agreed something had definitely changed based on the way they looked and now crumbled (also showed her the hives I developed). I stopped Erfa and my doctor switched me to NP which has been okay (first tried WP but hated that). Since January I’ve attempted over a dozen times to try to take this bottle of Erfa again for a couple days and every single time I start getting itchy and then break out in hives within about 3 days. I really liked Erfa best of all the NDT brands I’ve tried so kept wanting it to work. It looks like the complaints have died down so I’m going to try to order another batch and see what happens- really hoping it was a fluke and they’ve fixed the issue by now.

    • Dee says:

      I think the complaints have died down because people have decided to just give up on ERFA altogether. I was also getting by on old stock that I managed to get my hands on after reacting to the new ERFA. A couple of weeks ago I finally ran out of my old stock and decided to give new ERFA yet another try. Since the pharmacist knows of my problems with new ERFA, she agreed to loan me ONE 30 mg tablet and ONE 60 mg tablet since I react to new ERFA after taking only one and know right away if there will be a problem.

      Both of the tablets look different than my old stock, but I decided to try the 30 mg tablet (the 60 mg tablet is so speckled, it almost looks grey instead of the usual white). I knew right away from the way the 30 mg tab crumbled (I take it sublingually) that there was probably going to be a problem. This time, though, after about 30 seconds under my tongue, it started to burn badly to the point where I had to spit it out. It was like I had taken a lit match and put it right in my mouth. The amount that I had absorbed would have been very tiny, but I still had a stomach reaction to it for most of the day. So I now know nothing has changed. I’m not even going to bother taking the 60 mg tablet. If it’s of any importance, the lot number for the 30 mg tab is LF04826A expiry 01/2018. The 60 mg tab is LF06221A expiry 11/2018.

      It’s so depressing and infuriating that a high-quality product has been ruined by whatever happened. I have a feeling there might be something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself because I tried numerous combinations of compound ndt in the last year, and didn’t feel well on those either. But yet, I have no reaction whatsoever to the old stock (different lot #’s and expiry dates), and did great on those. So, no, I don’t believe the issues have been resolved.

      • Michelle says:

        That was nice the pharmacist allowed you to have one to try it out- that way you didn’t have to waste the $ on a whole bottle of bad meds. You are right it is SO frustrating that they would mess with a good quality product and something is obviously wrong. I still have two old empty bottles with 2017 expiration dates that had no problems. The one I had rashes from is Lot #LF05809A Exp 9/2018 so right in between the two you just got.

        I did go ahead and place a new order this week as a last ditch effort to see if they’ve fixed whatever is going on. If not I’m just going to give up and stick with the NP which hasn’t been bad but just not as good as old Erfa. The pharmacy confirmed they are shipping me a bottle with a 2019 expiration date so at least I know it will be one of Erfa’s newest batches. I’ll report back on what happens- really, really, really hoping it will work this time!

        • Angie says:

          Thanks Michelle…please keep us posted. I have done just okay on Nature-Throid. Did NOT do well on Acella NP or WP. Am currently trying (see my comments below) the Kripps Pharmacy compounded.

          • Cortisol levels? Iron levels?

          • Angie says:

            Janie: Thanks for your interest, but I am finding that I can do just fine on some Nature-throid batches, can feel hypo on some and hyper on others. How or why would cortisol or iron issues worsen on some batches and not show themselves on others?

          • I think you need to be open to having either inadequate iron and/or a cortisol problem. It’s just a very common reason why folks don’t do well on NDT…

          • Angie says:

            Well…I think an iron or cortisol problem would be more persistent and not “fluctuate” so wildly depending upon different lots (and I always, always, always ask for the lot # of each refill and expiration date) of medicine. If you have an answer for why that might be,Janie, I am “open” to listen. I was one of the first to notice a problem with ERFA. A medicine that had not revealed an iron or cortisol problem prior, and that I had done well on for 5 years. It’s my suspicion that I do better on meds with far fewer fillers and a little higher T3/T4 ratio.

          • Angie, if you are as open as you state, take the time to be honest with any answers in doing the Discovery Steps here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info (plus more in Chapter 5 of the revised STTM book) and do all four iron labs…and compare them to the following page: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values Granted, it “could” be the fillers for you. But having been doing what I do for 14 years, Angie, I see this repeatedly. i.e that what you describe is even more, and for a high percentage of people with similar problems, about either cortisol or iron.

          • Angie says:

            Janie..I’m curious…why have you decided that I have an iron or cortisol problem? I’ve asked the question as to why either or both problems did not reveal themselves on the old ERFA or persist regardless of which Nature-throid batch I might have, and I don’t think I’ve received an answer. I currently have an N-T batch that I’ve done reasonably well on, and am currently adjusting my Kripps dosage, so we’ll see. I don’t think this is just about fillers”..I think this may, for me at least, be also about a little higher T3/T4 ratio, as I’ve said.

          • It’s not a decision, just a hunch, Angie. Because people don’t normally have issues with Naturethroid, which has been a pretty consistently good product. So when people do, it usually means they in fact do have inadequate iron or a cortisol issue, which any of the better NDTs will reveal. So be open to it by doing the four iron labs, and answering the Discovery Steps on the Adrenal Info page.

  45. wideawake says:

    Just want to jump in on this convo. I just got the new batch of Thyroid and they def look different. Im very sensitive to any kind of meds so often I just bite off 1/2 and than only take it once or twice a week. My T3 and T4 are considered ‘normal’ now but I see more symptoms arising. I cant fall asleep or stay asleep and this is going on for months now. My eyes are drooping, lots of hair loss and dry skin. Got the whole textbook with the goiter, thanks to a doctor who told me not to worry about it in my 40’s because my numbers ‘were all normal’. So here I am, trying to do something about all this but so sensitive to all the meds. The first 3 hours in the morning after I take the NDT, I feel sleepy. Sometimes I just have to lay down. Sometimes if I take a whole NDT (30mg Thyroid), I feel good but cant sleep. Ive read through all this website a number of times and it sounds like a cortisol issue. Id love to just take the NDT and be well but its not working for me. Suggestions?? (I started taking NDT last year but not regularly because of the way it makes me feel)

  46. Fran says:

    After 8 years on synthroid, past 3 months on 125 synthroid & 5 Cytomel, and never feeling well since being diagnosed I got my Dr to prescribe me NDT / Thyroid… After looking it up and reading this I am very scared. I just went and looked at my pills and they are speckled. I took my first one this morning. I already have terrible anxiety, brain “fog”, extreme fatigue and and a long list of other awful things I experience that I don’t need getting worse, I made this switch with high hopes but am now scared of what could happen! 😖 Compounded Thyroid may be better??

    • Fran, this isn’t about moving to compounded. It’s that the NDT is revealing you have either a cortisol issue or inadequate iron. Read #2 here: https://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me

      • Fran says:

        Thank you, Janie.
        But why so many people getting sick after the denied change in Erfa Thyroid? I will ask my Dr to run those tests for me when I have my thyroid checked again in 4-5 weeks. I know my cortisol was checked by blood a while back and a basic iron test but I don’t know if they’ll check it by saliva. Hopefully. I don’t have the money to be ordering expensive private lab tests. I remember a few months ago I also asked him to run the two antibody tests associated with hashimotos and when it all came back he said everything looked fine… Does this just mean the Hashimotos is dormant?? I’ve been on the same dose of Synthroid since day 1, no jumping around. But it has to be Hashimotos that caused it doesn’t it? Happened postpartum…

        • Fran, your first post didn’t tell me that you were on Erfa. I now see you said “Thyroid”, which is what the company calls their NDT. We got in the habit of calling it Erfa since just using the word “thyroid” could imply any kind of thyroid medication. lol.

          It is okay to see if it’s just a bad batch of Erfa. Some have experienced them for sure. But you will also want to rule out if it’s also that you have an adrenal or iron problem, too. We have to cover all bases, because being on Synthroid that long often causes both an adrenal issue and inadequate iron in a large body of patients which are now revealed by being on NDT.

    • Nohan says:

      Hi Fran,
      Just wanted to let you know that I felt a transition period like that for the first few days and over the first month, I played with the dose using temperature and resting pulse, but now 3 months later, I not longer nap and feel wonderful.

      I also take progesterone and pregnenolone.

      Years ago, when I got my first prescription of desiccated thyroid, I was a mess and when I was leaving old Dr Derry’s office I said to him “Are you telling me that this pill is going to take care of all my symptoms?”
      And he said “Yes, in a month you’re going to much better and shortly after, you’ll be back to your old self”.
      He was right, but it took some time.
      Good Luck!

      • Fran says:

        Hi Nohan, thank you for your reply. Do you mean you felt a transition period when Erfa changed? Or switching from Synthroid to Erfa? I’ll have to look into how to use temperature and resting pulse.

  47. Angela Frye says:

    Problems with Nature-Throid batches now.

    Dear Janie: Am having some fairly significant issues with occasional Nature-throid batches. A batch that I purchased around 5-20 made me so sick I could barely drag myself around. And a batch (I had some leftover) that I had plenty left of from early Mar increased my heart rate 50% on the same dose that I had previously been on. I have been on/off these batches enough times to confirm the phenomena. And no, this is not adrenal or iron related. Appears something may be going on with RLC as well. Do we have a way to contact them directly? Don’t see one on their website.

    • Having been observing and collecting notes from patients for 14 years, I do occasionally see bad batches. But it’s very sporadic. I would find their website and talk to them. (And please be absolutely sure that your iron hasn’t gone done, or you don’t have a cortisol issue. I see SO many say they don’t, but when I look more closely at their labs, they do)

  48. Tim H says:

    Hi Janie,

    I have an appointment to ask my doctor one last time to put me on Natural Desiccated Thyroid.
    If he does not agree I will find a new doctor that will prescribe it for me.
    In the event of him being agreeable what Natural Desiccated Thyroid medication would you suggest I ask him for?
    I have read almost everything on your site and blog about the lack of reliability of Armour and Erfa Thyroid.
    I would prefer not to get into a situation where something he prescribes does not work then we are back to square one.

    I am in Canada.

    Thanks,

    Tim H.

    • Any of the others have done quite well for patients. 🙂 NP, WP or Naturethroid.

    • Nohan says:

      Hi Tim,

      I’m in B.C. Canada and recommend desiccated thyroid from Kripps Pharmacy in Vancouver….they say that they ship all over the world…and they shipped it fairly quickly to me after my Dr faxed the Rx

      It comes from NZ and the best I’ve found. A woman named Alissa on the forum here was the one who graciously shared the information and I am indebted to her as this is like all thyroid should be.

      Check out her posts, as she certainly did her homework.

      Good Luck!

      • gina says:

        Nohan please e-mail me about Kripps Thyroid. MrMooples at America online dot com.

      • Charis says:

        Will you please send any information on Kripps? Thanks so much…..chariswerner@aol.com

        • Alissa says:

          Kripps is easy to find: https://krippspharmacy.com/ – a google search of Kripps Pharmacy will bring it right up – they will ship anywhere. I am very happy with their compounded NDT and it’s the only place I could find that sells prescription porcine thyroid from New Zealand which means pasture raised pigs that are not fed Roundup soaked GMO feed. It is more expensive – 3X what ERFA costs in Canada (a little over $100 for 100 day supply), but after a couple months of nagging and sending notes from my Dr., etc. I did get my full 80% insurance coverage for it. Keep at them if your insurance company whines about paying for compounded meds – just keep insisting that they pay for it and keep bumping it up the food chain complaint/appeal wise. In Canada it’s no lie that there are no other options for NDT if ERFA isn’t working for you. It might be harder to get full insurance coverage for compounded NDT in the US where ether are more commercial options, but they should pay for at least some of it.

          I also am LOVING compounded slow-release synthetic T3 on top of it. If anyone suspects a problem converting T4 to T3 and/or reverse T3 issues or if you can’t handle as much NDT as you think you need when you feel like you’ve done all you can with the iron and adrenals, I highly recommend giving that that a shot.

          • gina says:

            Alissa I don’t know why most of my posts are not being displayed but here goes anyway – I have been in contact with pcnzltd.co.nz New Zealand’s largest compounding pharmacy and they have informed me that New Zealand does not have their own thyroid powder supplier and that they actually order it in from the united states. So if Kripps is ordering powder from New Zealand then their really getting US thyroid powder… Did Kripps give you source info?

          • And US powder has all five thyroid hormones from the pig, by the way. Nothing is removed; nothing is synthetic. And it’s made according to the guidelines of the US Pharmacopeia. Important to lay that out there to avoid unfounded negative speculations.

          • Alissa says:

            I contacted pcnzltd.co.nz too – they are not who Kripps gets their thyroid from. They have another supplier that Dr. Thorpe does not want to share and I respect that. He provided the ingredients (which is just potato or corn starch and cellulose) and the T4 & T3 levels when I asked. It’s USP whole porcine thyroid powder so it has all the various hormones – nothing has been removed. It has slightly less T4 and about the same T3 as the US powder, but no lactose which is what made me look for an alternative and I did a lot of looking around and contacted pharmacies and compounding pharmacy suppliers all over the place. If you don’t have an issue with lactose, there is probably no need to look further than the American Labs powder that’s more readily available at any compounding pharmacy.

          • Nohan says:

            I had emailed a company in NZ called Agri-Lab with some questions as I was wondering about cellulose …here’s some excepts

            “We have Freeze Dried Bovine Thyroid Gland available as a powder (as well as many other glandulars which are exported all over the world including to Canada”.

            “Our products are bulk packed and not in a ready-to-use form further processing, for example blending or encapsulation, and labeling, is required and is not the responsibility of Agri-lab”.

            Kripps Pharmacy’s is making thyroid that is equivalent to the thyroid that was being made by Pfizer (formerly Parke-Davis) before Erfa bought it.

            In my opinion, Efra is untrustworthy……after the sale, they could not get their act together to supply their customers and impacted thousands of lives as it was simply unavailable for months and months and then they produced a substandard product.

            You can get lost in the extraneous details, but countless people have been searching to find a thyroid pill that works, Kripps is one and there’s more.

            If Erfa isn’t can’t be trusted, just keep trying others

            Personally, I don’t care where it comes form, because the endgame is to feel good and I, along with Alissa have achieved that with Kripps compounded thyroid..

    • tyra says:

      Tim. I am not sure if you can get any other NDT brand but Erfa if you are in Canada. I may be wrong about that. I am confident that if anyone knows for sure, Janie would know.

      I do know of a few Canadians who are allergic to some of the fillers in Erfa and have had to get their natural desiccated thyroid med/rx compounded by a compounding pharmacy. I think they said they use lysine as the filler. I think you can also use acidophilus as a filler.

      If this is true (that your doctor can only prescribe or has access to Erfa in Canada), you might see if the doc can write you a prescription for ‘natural desiccated thyroid’ and write the dosage in grains instead of milligrams (gr versus mgs). One grain equals 60 or 65 mgs, depending on the manufacturer.

      There are a few vendors in Canada that carry Erfa as well as Naturethroid and Armour and, if your prescription doesn’t specify a particular brand name, you might be able to get them to give you the Naturethroid instead of Erfa? That is a lot of ‘ifs’.. but I just am not sure what you can work out because of being in Canada.

      Here is a link to a company that I dealt with for years and had no problem getting thyroid meds delivered to the states. They do require a prescription. You just scan and save your prescription and then send it as an attachment on an email that you send to the company after you order. You might call them and see if they can deliver Naturethroid in Canada. I know it sounds weird to question whether a Canadian company can deliver something into Canada but they often ship meds from their suppliers in other countries.
      https://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/thyroid

      • Alissa says:

        I don’t think you can’t buy any commercial NDT other than ERFA in Canada – I believe it’s the only one approved by Health Canada. You can get compounded NDT at pretty much any compounding pharmacy anywhere though – even if they don’t normally stock it, they probably will get it for you if you ask – every place I went would. Most pharmacies get the thyroid powder they compound from PCCC with gets it from American Laboratories – the only manufacturer in North America. All their NDT comes in a lactose base which was the main reason I went looking from something else and found the kiwi thyroid from Kripps that is in a cellulose & potato starch base.

        I’m still waiting on the results of the testing Health Canada is supposedly doing on the ERFA samples I sent them. I emailed a couple weeks ago to see if there was any news and was told my samples had be sent to their lab, but the guy I’m dealing with did not have any results back yet. He assured me that he will let me know the outcome of the testing, which can take a while, and I’ll post that here whenever I hear back from them.

        • Dee says:

          I keep checking back to see if Health Canada has gotten back to you with those results. I don’t know about Health Canada, though – ie. trusting *their* judgment regarding what is healthy for all Canadians – just look at their latest campaign to have Canadian ground beef irradiated for longer shelf life. Makes me wonder about them to be honest.

          • Alissa says:

            I don’t have a lot of faith in Health Canada myself and was shocked they even took me up on my offer to provide samples for testing – I really did not expect anything to come out of the complaint. It will be interesting to see what they come back with. I don’t know that I would truly trust their judgment and the T4 & T3 levels is probably all they are testing. I do have enough samples of good and bad batches left to have some other testing done, but I doubt I’ll bother – it’s pretty expensive and I’m happy on something else.

            At this point, I’m actually glad the ERFA quit working for me because if forced me to find something that works better than it ever did. I was in a very bad place right after a bad reaction when I made the complaint and I had been stressing about running out of the old ERFA I scored and having to try a new batch for a year and a half – I thought about it every day when I took it. I’m so glad that ordeal is over and wish I would have looked for something else sooner. I really think the compounding where you have more control over the ingredients and dosing is way better. I cut those powdery pills that turn to dust in half for years off and on depending on the dose I was taking – now I can get exactly the dose I want put in a capsule which is awesome with an added bonus of some extra vitamin C.

        • Suze says:

          Any word at all from Health Canada yet? I know that the bad batches of Erfa do contain some thyroid, but it is erratic amounts – I took them for several months (deliberately to prove that I was wrong and there was nothing wrong with them) and my free T3 went way over the top of the range, while the TSH and free T4 remained moderately low which is hypo, for me. I would dearly love to get random pills from all my batches analyzed to prove their inconsistency, but I’ve looked into it and I can’t afford to pay hundreds of dollars. Because this is prescribed you would think the pharmacists and doctors would be at least concerned, but they looked at me with a glazed, blank expression like “DUH? No one else ever complained about these pills…but then not many people take them….and no, we can’t and won’t analyze them.” It’s Health Canada’s job to analyze pills that made hundreds of people sick so where are their reassurances? I have looked at their site and they list several suspicious reports, but I don’t see any warning, recall or anything at all from them and this stuff started being reported more than two years ago!!!!!!

  49. gina says:

    Cathy M When did you get this batch and how long have you been using ERFA?

    • Cathy M says:

      Hello Gina,
      I’m on Erfa for about 3 years. I bought my bottle of this batch in March.
      As I said it works like before for me. I think it’s important to say it.

      • gina says:

        Cathy M do the pills in your bottle look like the ones or the old ones? Do they have that porcine odor?

        • Cathy M says:

          They’re shinier than before and don’t smell a lot. I prefer like this honestly…

          • gina says:

            Yes I’m sure we all would prefer not to smell the stench of the NDT. Except there is a huge problem. As so clearly printed on the Armour thyroid insert. Armour “is a natural preparation derived from porcine thyroid glands and has a strong, characteristic odor.” – Not any more! Basically it used to stink like pork. So did erfa. Everyone is noticing that odor is missing from the NDT’s across the board… It isn’t rocket science. No characteristic porcine odor = no porcine…
            The odor dissapeared at the same time as pig shortages, with the return of people getting sick on the newer odor free pills.

          • Again, that is false, Gina. The lack of the characteristic smell can mean they are using a different means to press the tablets and/or cover the tablets, or some change to the fillers. That has been proven before by the fact that chewing the tablets up to a pulp (of certain brands that appeared to change) has rid many people of symptoms. Nothing takes away that Erfa became problematic, and so did Armour after 2014. But it is not helpful to keep pushing that it means in black and white terms “no porcine”. Both problem occurred after the way the tablets are made changed.

  50. Ocarino says:

    I have discovered what “bad batch” can mean with ERFA concerning this one ” 09/2018″ LF05809A.
    The difference of potency is quite huge, all my hypo effects get back and forced me to stay on bed with very low energy 🙁 Cannot trust ERFA anymore..

    • Dee says:

      It looks like ERFA is going to be able to get away with a sub-par product indefinitely.

    • Cathy M says:

      Ocarino I’m myself on this batch and it works very well…
      I’m sorry you feel bad on it but for me nothing changed.
      Good luck!

    • Suze says:

      If a brand new batch that expires in 2018 is still subpar, I guess they did not resolve their manufacturing problem. I had high hopes of getting a good batch if I waited long enough for them to correct things, but I think I’ll stay with the synthetic.

    • Michelle says:

      This is the same batch I got that caused me to break out in hives over a dozen times I’ve attempted to take it. Something is obviously off but hoping they’ve resolved it by now so going to try one more attempt before I just give up and stick with NP.

  51. Francis says:

    Does anybody have an endo that will help work with and prescribe NDT?

    Thanks

    • Alissa says:

      I’ve been seeing Dr. David Thompson since 2007 – he’s an endo at UBC/VGH in Vancouver, BC. NDT is not his first choice, but he will prescribe it along with T3 only, compounded NDT, and NDT from the US if you are willing to cross the border yourself to get it – I dabbled with Armour back in 2014 when I had the first bad reaction to the new ERFA. He does dose more by symptoms than labs and has kept me with a low out of range TSH (but not totally suppressed) for years – I still think I was underdosed pretty much the whole time I was on ERFA though. He is good about ordering labs (with the exception of reverse T3 – he says he can’t order that one and have it covered) and does free T3 & T4 and antibody tests on a regular basis if you ask, and he also has been helpful with ordering vitamin D and different iron tests that have to be ordered by a specialist for MSP coverage in BC. He will work with you, but he takes a very measured and methodical approach. I find keeping very detailed notes of my symptoms and how they change with dosage changes complete with tricky excel charts graphing it all really helps – I’ve been building a good relationship with him for nearly a decade though so that helps too. He is getting kind of old and can’t be too far off from retirement. Hopefully, he will find someone to take over his patients with hard to treat thyroid problems which are probably the only ones he sees – if I had not had a severe bad reaction to Synthroid the first time I took it, I probably would never have gotten referred to him all those years ago. It usually takes 2-3 months to get an appointment with him even if you are an existing patient so plan ahead on that.

  52. Nohan says:

    Thanks for doing the math…but Mr Thorpe phoned yesterday as my Dr had written
    240 a day, 60 per pill, so this first month is going to be pricey, but hopefully I’ll find a sweet spot in that month and then get the pills in a cheaper dose.

    I’ve been taking 125 of Synthroid with 25 Cytomel and still flat lining. I don’t have a weight issue, but am constantly battling fatigue, cold hands, feet and just the “planning” of dinner is exhausting, let alone cooking the damn meal, and that’s with usually a 2 hour nap and a constant supply of strong coffee.

    I think I’ll go straight on 120 of the thyroid for 2 weeks and take it from there and if need be, up and maybe cut up the cytomel pill, but damn, why do we need that along the pure thyroid?

    By the way, Mr Thorpe did mention it to me using the pharmaceutical word and I thought “later maybe” but I didn’t even know it was T3 which I’m thinking would be a slow release Cytomel. Right?

    It should be here Friday or Monday, along with orders of progesterone and pregnenolone. which I’ve been out of for awhile and frankly just too lazy and apathetic to re-order.

    It sounds like you’ve noticed some really positive changes in a week….that’s great, I’m feeling a little uncertain of dosing, as just don’t want to tank anymore than I am, nor go the other way…..but he stressed the importance of temperature and pulse, so will rely on that.

    Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it , as others no doubt will too.

    • Alissa says:

      I think I have a problem converting T4 to T3 and that is probably why I’m loving the slow release T3 (liothyronine) on top of the NDT. Cytomel was too much for me even in small doses, but this sustained release stuff is very gentle and seems to just soak in without required much effort my my body to do anything with it. Like I said before, I found the Kripps NDT to be not as strong as the ERFA and I’m now up to 30mcg of the T3 on top of 125mg of the NDT and I am feeling better than I have in a very long time. Even if they are expensive, I think having he 60s the first month will be good and give you lots of flexibility to find your right dose. You might not need the T3 on top, but I recommend trying it – my hands and feet have not been this warm in over a decade and I can already tell a difference in my skin and brain power!

      • Nohan says:

        That’s so great to hear. They weren’t here on Friday, but should be tomorrow.

        Are you saying that they aren’t as strong, but that you are getting better results than you were with Erfa?

        Are you noticing an increase in energy? Beyond the brain fog and the coldness, that’s my real bugaboo.

        I functioned best when my TSH was >1 which freaked my Dr, but later read something by Ray Peat, saying that was a good thing.

        Anyhow, will start with the 120 and maybe break a capsule in 10 days and monitor temp and pulse and add pieces of T3 later if I feel like I need it…

        I was doing the T3 only for a year 50 – 75 mcg, but that wasn’t doing it either. If this doesn’t cut it, I’m buying some pigs.

        • Alissa says:

          125mg of the NDT from Kripps did not seem as strong as 125mg of ERFA and according to the specs it does have a little less T4 and about the same T3. However, I am now adding 30mcg of T3 on top of it and that is probably what is making the difference and making me feel so much better. I started out with just the NDT for almost a week and then started adding 7.5mcg every few days and I’ll keep doing that until I feel like it’s too much. I’ve been keeping my TSH below .1 for over 5 years so it will be interesting to see what happens with that – I’ll do labs in 2-3 weeks after I quit upping the dose.

          Low energy is not that much of an issue for me and amazingly I quit caffeine completely about 6 months ago after being a hardcore addict my whole adult life – fyi LOTS of magnesium and ginseng are the key to painless caffeine withdrawal. Since I started the new compounded meds, I have been sleeping better/harder and also have been waking up on my own before my alarm which is always nice.

      • Angie says:

        Hi Alissa: I want to say that your posts are both intriguing and helpful. I was WONDERFUL on ERFA from 2009 to early 2014. I have tried several batches since then and have only had one that was any good. I have emailed Kripps for more info and am so hopeful that I can reach my old ERFA self with their product. Please keep us posted on how you are doing. I am “maintaining” with Nature-throid, but have not reached the level of wellness I had with ERFA. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and to post the info with regard to Kripps!

        • gina says:

          Hi Angie and Alissa I too am very interested in Kripps thyroid can you e-mail me please… MrMooples at America online.

  53. gina says:

    I have a 4/17 batch bottle here of ERFA that I am afraid to try. It is listed above in the “good batch”section but there was someone who complained about this batch on the comments on the other page and they are visibly different. When I compare the new pills to the old ones they slightly browner, specled with tiny dark dots and are shiny. The smell from the bottle is different too. More medicinal than the familiar stinky smell we all know to well. The label is different as well. I am noticing that erfa used to be in lower case letters and now it’s capital letters…

    • Suze says:

      Don’t be afraid to try it. Take it and be a scientist and observe the results. That is what we all have to do! That is what I had to do with every single batch or change in dose. In fact, though I’ve just been raising my dose of Synthroid and Cytomel to become closer to euthyroid, and am on the verge of being euthyroid every day, I thought of actually trying my old batches of Erfa again as an experiment. I mean the results are temporary if they are bad, and I would go right back to the synthetic if the Erfa still didn’t work. And of course my long term goal is to go back to Erfa eventually – a new supply. It’s been two years since the bad pills. Surely they would have fixed them by now – that would be my gamble if I got a new supply.

      • gina says:

        Suze – what batches of erfa do you have? Are they the bottle with the old label or the new label? erfa or ERFA. I have a bottle dated 04/17 and it has the new label and it looks like the new pill on the right, in the pic at the top of this page. I tried it for 2 days and I was jittery and sick to my stomach. Also a terrible headache. Now my hair is falling out in clumps! I don’t know what to take??? I was perfect on erfa till they changed it.

        • Suze says:

          They are in the drugstore bottles so I don’t know about the original labels on the Erfa bottles. I have just a few left of the non shiny older ones. I started these yesterday as an experiment (125 mg to start) and so far so good. These expire 4/17. I also have some 8/17- 30 mg tablets that I will use next if I feel OK on these. After being on Synthroid and Cytomel for 6 months I am doing OK but not perfect and I just wanted to give Erfa another chance and see if the Erfa worked for me this time because I am fed up with never losing weight no matter what I do. If you continue to feel sick on the Erfa can you ask your dr. about giving you another kind right away? Did you have a blood test to make sure it’s the right dose? The hair falling out sounds like a hypo thing I used to have.

          • gina says:

            Your 4/17 batch look like the old pills? My 4/17 batch are the new pills. Shiny with dark speckles more gritty to chew… I have tried others all seem to have changed.

          • Suze says:

            My 4/17 pills are shiny and taste sugary sweet without the pork smell than they used to have. They have no dark specks on them and are very easy to chew, dissolve immediately and not gritty at all. They are the newer batch but I had no bad reaction to them before. The older ones were matte, not shiny, with a less deep indentation of the lettering. I still have a few in a plastic bag and they expired in 8/15 and I may take them next. Then I have a bottle of 30 mg pills that I am going to take and see what happens. They are 8/17. So far I am euthyroid on these Erfa pills of 125, exp. 4/17. I have only one left for tomorrow and then I will start the older ones.

          • gina says:

            Do you feel well on them? I have the 125 mg also…How long have you been taking them now?

          • Suze says:

            I only took the Erfa for 3 days. I felt well but I went back to the T4 and T3 today. I decided not to use the old 30 mg pills or the expired 125 mg pills. It was an experiment and I may go back to Erfa after I get a new prescription. I am sure the Erfa 4/17 is fine and I hope you are doing well on your pills.

    • KJ says:

      I am new to trying ERFA- Thyroid. I had a bad reaction to it. I am deeply thankful that I found this website and read about it because I figured I just couldn’t take dessicated thyroid, which is not the case. It was the ERFA brand that does not agree with me. My symptoms reminded me of when I took too much iodine and it would put me into more of a hypothyroid state, very cold hands, shivering to where I had to take a hot steaming bath to warm up, and a deep sleepy fatigue and pounding headache. I plan on trying some of the other NDT to find which works best for me, perhaps the Thyroid-S or Nature-Throid. I think it is important to let the company know when people have a bad reaction so that they are aware that there could be a problem. If they are a good company they will be happy to receive feedback and make every effort to produce a good product.
      The expiration date on my bottle is 09/2018, Lot: LF05828A

  54. Nohan says:

    Years ago after Armour changed, I read that a biologist, Dr Ray Peat said that Forest had taken a derivative out of the thyroid to sell separately and that was why it didn’t work as well. It’s just strange that both US and Canada top desiccated thyroid pills went downhill around the same time.

    I can’t find the quote, but found these

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18279024

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21215270

    I doubt an investigation by Health Canada is going put Erfa out of business, they’ve got a monopoly here in Canada, but I wonder if they are going to test to see that all the known derivatives are present in the pills….that would be interesting because the original desiccated thyroid worked 100% and now it doesn’t, so makes sense that something could be missing in it….that’s what it feels like to me.

    • Suze says:

      I found the reference:

      The old Armour thyroid, made from beef and pork glands before 1990, did contain other components that were probably valuable, but when T3 is absorbed by mitochondria its immediately changed into T2, so the synthetic T3s effects cant be distinguished from those of a mixture of T3 and T2. The company that now makes Armour thyroid started removing the calcitonin in the 1990s, to sell as a separate product.

      Here is the whole article:

      http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/03/25/ray-peat-phd-on-thyroid-temperature-pulse-and-tsh/

      • Alissa says:

        Thanks so much for that article Suze!

        It’s interesting – when I was asking Dr. Thorpe at Kripps how he would recommend my adding some slow release T3 to my NDT – how quickly I should raise the dose and how I would know when I’m at a good point with it, he could have been quoting this article. He made a big point encouraging me to use basal body temp and heart rate as the key indicators of correct dosing and to try to the ignore blood tests. I’m totally going to make a chart and track this closely as recommend in the article as I tinker with the dose.

        That article also got me thinking that I need to look at my adrenaline levels again – that always seemed to be more of the adrenal problem for me rather than cortisol which always checked out ok or just a little on the high side. I was thinking about adding some low dose hydrocortisone after a few suggestions, but that might be a mistake and perhaps I should look into other ways to reduce my adrenaline levels first or just give the little nips of slow release T3 I’m adding some time to do their thing. Despite meditating everyday and doing lots of yoga, saunas, soaking, etc., I’ve totally been stressing about running out of the old ERFA for the last few months and then after having the bad reaction again having to find something else!

        • Nohan says:

          Hi Alissa,

          Kripps would have received my prescription today which my Dr wrote for 240 a day, but they are compounding at 120 a tablet with minimal fillers.

          Did Thorpe suggest the extra T3? I’ve been taking Synthroid at 120 and Cytomel at 25mcg for a couple of years and never noticed a difference….

          I’ve followed a lot of Ray Peat’s advice over the years and also had a email consultation and while the diet made a difference, I still feel like I’m running on empty by noon and need a nap before the kids get home.

          Have you figured out the cost per capsule?
          Thanks,

          • Alissa says:

            Both Dr. Thorpe and a naturopath recommended the slow release T3 on top of the NDT and my endocrinologist wrote the prescription for it – he thought it was worth trying too. I can’t believe how warm I am, especially my hands and feet and my body temp is higher than it’s been in years. It’s very gentle and I find it a millions times better than Cytomel which I could not handle at all – I did it both with Synthroid and alone back before trying NDT. I had a really bad reaction to that Cytomel – it was like taking a weak and not very fun hallucinogen. My Dr. said I was probably manufacturing my own adrenochrome (of Fear & Loathing fame) due to too much adrenaline mixing with a burst of T3.

            Kripps charged me $106 for 100 125mg ($1.06/ea.) of the NDT – a little more than 3X what ERFA costs – and $55 for 90 7.5mcg ($.61/ea.) slow release T3. I’ll be getting some 15mcg capsules soon and they won’t be much more – it’s the filling of the capsules that costs most of the money I believe. I will have some insurance coverage for this, but I’m still waiting to see how much – it probably won’t be the 80% I had with the ERFA but they should pay a minimum of $50-60 which is fine – so far it’s totally worth it to me .

          • Alissa, I think i saw that you tend to make RT3 if you raise NDT. Did you ever figure out what you do that? i.e. have you done an adrenal saliva test and what were the results? Is your iron optimal vs “in range”?

      • I’m not sure how accurate this is. Armour was made solely from pig for a long time i.e. not beef. Also, not sure at all they have removed calcitonin.

        • Alissa says:

          Hi Janie,

          I’ve had adrenal testing a couple times – saliva & urine – and those always test out ok. Cortisol & adrenaline a little on the high side, but not by much – still in range. Iron is another story – I have been ‘borderline anemic’ since puberty (same with my mom and my grandma) and that got worse and moved below borderline with the thyroid problem and treatment. It does not matter how much or what kind of iron I take, I can’t seem to get my ferratin much over 80 (ug/L). Similarly, I found I was majorly deficient in both Vitamin D and magnesium and I’ve been really working on both of those, along with the iron. The magnesium deficiency was revealed when I first tried to take vitamin D and had a severe bad reaction – chest pain and high blood pressure spikes when that is normally low – below normal. I had to do tons of magnesium – oral and transdermal – for 6 weeks before I could handle any vitamin D – now I’m up to 6000-10000 IU/day and brought the hydroxy 25 (nmol/L) levels from below 20 to a little over 80. I’m really trying to get both the ferratin and vitamin D at least over 100 to rule them out as causing issues, but I seem to max out around right around 80 for each – I just had those tested and my levels of both with went down or up just a little over the last 6 months while taking a LOT of supplements of a few different kinds to try to cover my bases – so discouraging. I thought switching to liposomal iron & vit D might help, but that didn’t make a difference, except in the cost! My body just does not seem to process either one properly and it’s really frustrating. I’m hopeful that adding this slow release T3 to the NDT will finally do the trick since I could never handle as much NDT as I thought I needed without getting all jittery, sweaty and feeling like my heart was going to explode – it really seems to be helping so far with none of the bad effects above.

      • Nohan says:

        Great and it makes sense as to why it would work and then not work.

        I’ve always thought that and in 2012 I wrote Erfa with that question;

        Do you use 100% of the animal thyroid in your Desiccated Thyroid Pills or do you remove some of the components ?

        My answer;
        Thank you for contacting ERFA Canada 2012 inc. We use the porcine thyroid gland itself. Once it is dried we have a purification process that takes place (removing bacteria, etc..). At the end of the purification process we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered.
        Dr Henri Knafo, MD, M.Sc, B.Sc
        Directeur Médical/Medical Director
        Erfa Canada 2012 Inc

        Wonder what the etc was…I guess the question now should be;

        Do you remove any of the calcitonin from the porcine thyroid glands?

        • gina says:

          Nohan I have tried to contact r Henri Knafo and my e-mail is always returned as undeliverable. Maybe the purification process is different now?? I wonder what he meant by ” we dose the thyroid hormones to check that it was unaltered”? I guess he means they check to make sure its the same? Well it isn’t. The pills are gritty now when I chew them and they have darks specks that the old never had. Something is visibly different with them aside from the negative results…How dare they tell us nothing has changed!

  55. Cathy M says:

    Good morning,
    It’s the first time I write a comment here but I don’t feel really comfortable with this complaint to Health Canada.
    I’m 68 years old and on Erfa thyroid for about 3 years now. Let me say that this product changed my life.
    I have blood tests done on a regular basis and everything is normal (well as much as it can be at my age!)
    I do have other health issues like cholesterol and hypertension. Some days are better than others but to say it’s all because of Thyroid… NO.
    Thyroid problems are so different for each person. I don’t think that these accusations about toxins or contaminants are relevant. I’m afraid that with this complaint to health canada you will do more harm than good for patients happy and healthy thanks to erfa.

    • Cathy, it’s definitely a risk.

    • Dorothy says:

      I definitely agree with you Cathy.
      When I saw these comments about a different quality of thyroid and even toxins, I was afraid for my health.
      I went to my pharmacy in Burnaby BC and talked for a moment with my pharmacist about it.
      He confirmed that he orders Thyroid for a long time now because many of his clients are on this medication. He received 0 complaints in years + He almost laughed when I talked about a toxin or a contaminant in the product. He said that we would know it directly if it was the case because symptoms would be (for every single patients on it) like a food poisoning (vomiting, diarrhea…)
      Do the person who made this complaint has these symptoms? Because if it’s not the case, she shouldn’t create rumors like this and try to destroy the reputation of a good product I use and love every single day of my life. (And I believe I’m not the only one). If I’m not feeling good on a medicine anymore, well I’ll change! I won’t ask entire Canada to change with me. This is nonsense.
      To end on a more positive tone Janie I really like your blog and all the work behind it. You helped me a lot Thank you!

      • Anne says:

        Dorothy unfortunately for some of us we did have an immediate reaction very similar to food poisoning, which we have mentioned further back in this blog, and which is why I can never trust the product again, without knowing what has happened. Within half an hour of taking the first of a new batch I had a violent trip to the bathroom, the same happened the next day and the third day I nearly passed out in the bathroom, had palpitations and then extreme dizziness and lightheadedness for 24 hours. I can only liken it to allergy mixed with knock-out meds. Like you I loved ERFA and had taken it since Armour was reformulated in 2009. I’m having a difficult time now because I’m in England where NDT is frowned on by most doctors and endocrinologists and this has added to their concerns, so I am having to buy over the internet. I don’t think anyone reporting this to Health Canada would do so lightly. I can’t do so because it seems from the forms that only those in Canada can, but, in view of the fact that the ERFA company say there has been no reformulation (and I believe them, because why would they feel the need to deny this if there had been!) I think someone should be investigating at the level of the manufacturing plant in Spain to see what is going on there. That must be where the problem lies.

      • Alissa says:

        I made a complaint to Health Canada and I’m glad I did and would do it again. Nothing is going to change with the availability of the new and far from improved ERFA unless they find a major problem and, if that’s the case, why anyone would want to keep taking it is beyond me. If I’m harmed by any product, I’m going to bring it to the attention of someone in a position to do something about it. However, the focus of my complaint was more about asking/begging them to approve other NDT options for use in Canada than doing anything punitive to ERFA. I did tell them my whole story with the bad reactions to not just the ERFA, but synthetic thyroid hormones as well which I also cannot tolerate at all so my options slim. I offered to supply samples for testing and they took me up on it.

        I’m not asking anyone to change what they are doing and I am not even close to the only one that had a problem, noticed a change in the ERFA, or filed a complaint – there are lots from other people in this adverse reaction database in the last few years: http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/arquery-rechercheei/index-eng.jsp. The pages and the many comments on this site would not exist unless there is a problem. I was not well for most of 2014 and could not figure out what was going on until I stumbled on the page on this site saying the ERFA had changed. My doctors ran tons of tests and the only thing that came up weird was that my TSH was super low (almost undetectable when I had been stable at .1-.2 for years) and my free T4 & T3 were also low – hyper & hypo at the same time. All of this is very well documented with abnormal labs, detailed lists of symptoms I gave to my doctors, and dosage changes to try to make it work better which is probably why they followed up on my complaint I tracked down some old stock and was back to normal in no time. I don’t have many health issues – mostly just deficiencies – Vit D, magnesium, etc. – which is all related to the thyroid problem The same exact thing happened this year after my supply of the old ERFA dwindled and I had to try a new batch. I went back and forth enough to know there is a big difference at least in my body. ERFA saved my life in 2008 and I was devastated when it quit working for me.

        I doubt it’s a toxin and suspect it’s a filler issue or something in the manufacturing process. Obviously, it’s something only some people are sensitive to. I avoid conventionally raised meat and dairy due to not wanting the hormones. antibiotics, or Roundup soaked GMO feed the animals are pumped full of and am really glad I no longer have to take a medicine every day that’s sourced from that kind of scary agriculture. When a frighteningly high percentage of feedlot pigs are ending up sterile and with deformed organs, how healthy do you think their thyroids are? This statement is a condemnation of North American agriculture in general and not directed at any particular company or product, except maybe Monsanto.

        • gina says:

          Alissa – I too was saved by erfa for many years and now have a new bottle that tried to kill me. What are you taking now?

        • gina says:

          I also find it very alarming that the lablel on ERFA states “made in Canada” and the company confesses it is actually made in Spain. This is false advertising and illegal.

          • Gina, the desiccated thyroid powder they use is made in Spain. The tablets can be made in Canada. Nothing false or illegal.

          • gina says:

            The tablets are made at a new plant in Spain though… The thyroid powder is imported to Spain from UK??? per ERFA 2012

          • That could be right. But the bottom line is that it’s not a conspiracy. A company will say that something is “made by them” where they are located as a company, even if it’s put together somewhere else.

  56. Jane says:

    Good morning,
    Just to say that I feel okay on ERFA for many years.
    Never noticed a change…
    It’s strange to read all these comments.

    • gina says:

      Jane – Can you please tell me what batch (date on bottle) you are currently taking of erfa? Does the bottle have the old label with lowercase erfa or the new bottle with ERFA? Do the pills have dark speckles.

  57. Nohan says:

    Thanks again Alissa.

    I phoned Kripps and a woman pharmacist insisted that they just used Erfa…I re-read your email and phoned back for Dr. Thorpe and by that time someone had given her the word that she was wrong…so she wasn’t very pleasant, but I got the info I needed and will be seeing my Dr on the 15th and will get a prescription …..although I’m not even sure what amount to ask for….I did good on the old thyroid at 180 and I was taking 4 and 5 pills of Erfa which wasn’t doing much.

    Will let you know
    Nohan

    • Alissa says:

      It’s about the same so 180-200mg should be good for you. It has 535 mcg of T4 and 139mcg of T3 per gram – you can do the math and make your best guess and what to try.

      • Nohan says:

        Hey Alissa,
        i just talked to Mr. Thorpe as I had a couple of questions as to my Dr cutting the prescription and you were right, he is an old school thyroid guy…reminds me of old Dr Derry from Victoria who originally diagnosed thyroid, when my Dr denied it.

        i mentioned to him that his name was now on the internet and he said “Great”, they ship all over…

        Another thing I didn’t know was that they do thyroid prescriptions for naturopaths and vets…I would think they wouldn’t be so stuck in the dogma of conventional medicine for those who’s Drs aren’t hearing them.

        Thanks for you perseverance!!!.

        • Alissa says:

          Hey Nohan,

          I did warn Dr. Thorpe that I would be telling people about his kiwi NDT – I was so happy to find it. He’s old school for sure! I’ve been taking it for about a week and I think it is a bit weaker than the ERFA, but the difference might also be taking capsules rather than doing it sublingualy. I have opened the capsules a few times, but it needs some sugar or xylitol or something. Other than that, I like it – there’s none of jitteryness and tension I was feeling on my recent batch of ERFA and my hypo symptoms that returned after only 5-6 weeks on it are about gone, but I was on the good old ERFA for a couple weeks during the transition too.

          • Nohan says:

            It sounds like the transition is coming together….

            When you took the capsules apart, did you take all the thyroid at once?
            I just cannot swallow pills…it’s a tape loop in my brain that that it’s gonna get stuck in my throat…so I crush or chew everything…but I was wondering if by doing that, if I was going to OD on thyroid for an hour and then crash.

            Did you notice any difference?

          • Alissa says:

            The capsules are tiny. The last few days I’ve been opening them and putting the contents on a little xylitol and then letting it dissolve in my mouth and swallowing. I also then swallow the empty capsule because it’s not quite empty to make sure I get it all. I’m only doing 125mg of the NDT and I’m taking that at 10-11pm along with 7.5mcg of slow release T3. I would not worry about ODing – I’m taking it an hour to right before bed and have had no problem sleeping. I’m also taking 15mcg of T3 at 10-11am.

            I’m staring to feel better than I have in awhile and am going to stick with this dosage for a bit and start monitoring my temp and pulse rate more closely before bumping it up again. I’ve been underdosed for going on 2 years because I reduced what I was taking in 2014 from 155mg then down to 140mg then down to 125mg with the first bad reaction to the new ERFA and then I only had 500 125mgs of the old stock ERFA and I would half-intentionally ‘forget’ to take it fairly regularly to make it last longer – pathetic. I’m so glad I’m not in that mindset anymore and can take as much as I want and experiment to find my optimal dose.

            I’m really liking the slow release T3 with the NDT, but you do have to swallow an intact capsule for that. I have a tendency to get too much reverse T3 when raising the NDT over 2.5 grains so I think I’ll keep that at 125mg or maybe just a bit higher and keep adding the T3 until I find the sweet spot. I may also try ramping up the T3 and backing off the NDT ala the Wilson’s temperature syndrome treatment to clear out any excess reverse T3, but I’m not quite sure on that just yet. Since I’m feeling pretty good, I’ll probably just keep doing what I’m doing for now.

  58. Suze says:

    OK thanks for the link about Armour, Janie. I will not bother trying to get Armour since it seems as wracked with scandal as Erfa. I was not impressed to read that this important product was sold so many times to different companies. I did some research and it used to be made by Armour who had packing plants that don’t exist anymore. An unnamed company bought it from Armour and then it went to Forest and then Activas which became Allergan which was taken over by Pfizer this year. Armour’s website is being “updated” presumably to add the new info that it’s now owned by Pfizer. I read on some site a defense of the change in 2008, that it was done to increase the shelf life so they wouldn’t have to have big recalls of expired product since the larger doses didn’t sell as much. They did the recalls of their own free will when their testing showed slight loss of efficacy after a year. I just wonder if it would still be a stable product if Armour was still making it. It is hard to get straight answers about the history and manufacture of any thyroid product and I find that annoying and inexcusable. They should be competing to make the finest thyroid pill in the world but none of them seem to care. I’m still using t3 and t4 synthetics and just raised the t4 and lowered to t3 to try to tweak my dose. I miss the good Erfa but don’t dare to take my old pills again. Maybe some day I’ll try it again with a new batch.

    • Dee says:

      You would think their priority would be to supply the utmost pure medication to us, especially since there are SO many people that need thyroid hormone to live any sort of liveable existence. It seems to be all about the almighty dollar, though.

  59. kimi says:

    How about all the thyroid sufferers tell the fda! I know you don’t like synthroid anymore but there is a reason? FDA took thyroid hormone out! did any of you know that? isnstead of the natural (which I know are important) go to the FDA and tell them YOU WANT 90 to 110 percent potency back in synthroid and take the coding off the pills cuz it causes a absorption problem by not getting all the synthroid. FDA has told me they haven’t heard any complaints. I think it’s because all of you are here want natural and no fda can regulate a natural med. look up fda and tell them synthroid is no longer working because there is not enough HORMONE! thanks kimi

  60. Pete says:

    I had a bad batch (Lot: 13G051, Exp: 07/2016) two years ago and felt awful. After that I had good luck (and good batches) for almost two years and almost forgot about this. Until a month ago I bought a new bottle and noticed right away it was one of the bad ones (Lot: LF04143A, EXP: 07/17). The pills were much harder and soon enough I started to feel as though I hadn’t taken Erfa Thyroid at all.
    I’m losing my faith in Erfa Thyroid. But the thing is, we have only two options of NDT here in Finland: Armour and Erfa Thyroid. And Armour seems to be unreliable too at the moment.

    • Try chewing them up to a fine wet powder in your mouth, then drink down and let us know.

      • Pete says:

        I tried that since it worked for me with the reformulated Armour. I have found out that these bad batches of Erfa work best for me if I crush the tablets (really grind them) between two spoons, add a little bit of sugar and then place the powder under my tongue. It seems to dissolve right away.

        What’s strange about these batches is that you just don’t know which ones are good and which are bad. I mean I’ve had a good and a bad batch with the same expiry date (07/17) and almost the same lot number (LF04141A=good, LF04143A=bad). It’s like a lottery with your health.

        Oh, but I just found out that they have started importing Nature-Throid to Finland. We do have a choice after all!

        • Pete says:

          After some experimenting I´ve found that chewing the tablets does help after all. You just have to keep on chewing for a longer time than I did (chew until there’s no pieces left in your mouth).

          • Suze says:

            For those who crushed the tablets and it worked, that was not my problem. I have chewed up my thyroid tablets since 1991, ever since I found out they were formulated with sugar and were chewable. I wanted them to work right away, not slowly dissolve in the stomach. If it was a matter of grinding them to a fine powder to make them work, wouldn’t chewing them up be equivalent? Despite chewing them every time, there were distinctly bad batches of Erfa in 2014 and 2015 which made me ill, and I finally gave up and went back to synthetic T4 and T3. My dream is to get my new endo to prescribe NT or Armour. I am still not perfectly euthyroid on the synthetics and I never feel as perfect as I did from late 2012 to early 2014 when the Erfa was perfect. Maybe it’s sheer superstition but I wonder if my body misses the T1 and T2.

          • Suze, thank you for your observations that even chewing didn’t help you with bad batches of Erfa. By the way, you might want to reconsider getting on Armour. See http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2015/09/19/armour-and-unhappy-thyroid-patients/

          • Pete says:

            Hi Suze, When Armour was reformulated in 2009 I started chewing it. Armour needed only a little chewing (maybe five seconds or so) to make it work again. I tried this with the bad batches of Erfa I received and at first decided it didn’t work. But then I tried again and this time kept on chewing until the pill had completely dissolved. This takes me maybe a minute or two. I then realized Erfa was working again. So chewing the pills for a longer time might make a difference.

  61. donna says:

    I switched last week from Erfa’s thyroid pills to a compounded thyroid hormone, and all the symptoms of muscle pain, muscle twitching, extreme muscle weakness, nausea, sleeplessness, emotional and psychological symptoms of exhaustion, paranoia, panic attacks, have all cleared up since I switched. But my first day on a low dose of hydrocortisone, I felt completely normal. I’m off the hydrocortisone now as my adrenal tests returned normal from the ACTH test. I feel so much better, and I’m writing to Health Canada about Erfa’s thyroid hormone, and I suggest anyone else on Erfa’s thyroid hormone experiencing a list of symptoms also write the Health Canada, and force Erfa to seriously look into what they did that made a medicine go from good to less valuable than T4 only. They should not be able to get away with this….enough is enough, I was sick for 18 months….damn sick~!

    • Helen says:

      Hello Donna,
      I’m happy to read that you feel better now. I just wanted to say that I felt some of your symptoms about 3 months ago. I’m on erfa to. I talked with my doctor (who is awsome bless him) and he told me to decrease my dosage. In one week everything was back to normal. It was as if my body was telling me that a smaller dosage would be enough for me.
      So I don’t think Erfa has anything to do with that. I think it’s just impossible to create a unique pill perfect for everyone and for all your life. I accept the fact that I will probably have to change my dosage again in a few years…
      Anyway… Happy that you found something else you like.
      Good luck!

    • Alissa says:

      I agree Donna – I have been asking my doctors and pharmacists to file complaints with ERFA and Health Canada as well, but doubt they actually have. You can fill out an online complaint form with Health Canada here: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/compli-conform/prob-report-rapport/frm-0317-eng.php – everyone who has a bad reaction to the new ERFA should – it only takes a few minutes.

      I was able to stockpile a stash of the old ERFA back in 2014, but it’s running out and expiring so I tried a new batch a month ago. I knew about a week in, it was not ok, but I am going to try to power through a month-6 weeks so I have the blood tests to prove somethings is off with it. My TSH will be super low/suppressed and free T3 will also be low – I can tell and that’s exactly what happened in 2014 – hypo & hyper at the same time. I have a prescription for compounded NDT and am shopping around for pharmacies – so far, I have not found anyone that can make me tablets I can do sublingualy which I would prefer to capsules. Any recommendations on compounding pharmacies in the Vancouver, BC area??

    • Nohan says:

      Hi,

      I’m from B.C. and was under the impression that the pharmacy’s would use Erfa in their formulas….am I wrong?

      I used to take it, but in my opinion the quality immediately diminished when Erfa bought it from Parke Davis, I believe.

      I’m on Synthroid and Cytomel which isn’t working but we lack choices here in Canada. I am thinking of
      trying the Thyro Gold, but have read that on a website that one of their ingredients brings other problems, so would be interested to know what others think;

      Forskolin
      Forskolin and derivatives as tools for studying the role of cAMP
      http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/g … 1/art00001
      http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/1660629
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23146043

      By the way Alissa, there’s a book out about Health Canada, called “Corrupt to the Core” ….so I wouldn’t waste the time or ink, but I believe there’s more value by this site and others exposing Erfa, it’s just too bad that they have no competition in Canada, so why clean up their act.

      • Alissa says:

        I also got a very nice personal reply from Health Canada from the form above. I was told that they “opened a case for further follow up” and that my complaint was added to their main database. Because I had a bad reaction, they escalated it to the “Canada Vigilance Program” and said they may contact me again – maybe they will test the old and new. If not, I’ll get that done somewhere. In my complaint I also asked that they approve more brands for use in Canada so patients have options. Corrupt or not, if they get enough complaints they will have to do something – it’s worth taking a few minutes to fill out the form.

        • Alissa says:

          I was contacted again by Health Canada – they are looking into this. They requested a lot more information including pictures of the bottles/labels and asked if they could contact the pharmacies I got them from so they can get for more information – lot numbers, etc. from them. Best of all, it sounds like they do want to test the pills – my old stock and the new! They are asking how many I have and would be willing to give them. I do not want to part with very many of the old ones, right now, but I offered a week’s worth – 7 pills and possibly more in a couple months if I’m dong well on the compounded thyroid. They can have all 63 of the new ones. I will report back on what develops with this for sure.

        • Alissa says:

          Update: Health Canada is going to test the ERFA! I’m sending them samples from the bad batch I got in February, two different batches that did not work well from 2014, and the good old stuff that does work. They have assured me that they will keep me posted on the progress of the investigation and outcomes of the analysis and I will report back here.

          I probably will never take ERFA again after my stash of the old stuff is gone and/or when I’m stable on my new custom made meds, but I would still like to know what happened to it. Look into compounded NDT, especially if you are in Canada as it is the only other option – it is NOT ERFA. I think it is going to end up being a way better option, at least for me and worth every penny of the extra expense.

          • Nohan says:

            Hey Alissa

            That’s great news about the compounded, but today I phoned some compounding pharmacies in B.C. and although it appears many are just using the synthetic in their formulas, a pharmacist I talked to said that they did do a desiccated one, although they did not know if the thyroid came from Erfa…but the company that they used for their compounding supplies was called PCCA
            http://www.pccarx.ca/products
            I phoned them questioning if they used Erfa, cause I didn’t want it and the guy who was pretty good said that he wasn’t allowed to say where the product came from BUT I should maybe get the compounding pharmacy to inquire about the “Country of Origin” which pretty much said that it wasn’t from Canada.

            Anyhow I did that and the pharmacist phoned and told me that it comes from the US…so would it be likely that this is from Activis as they are in Canada also, but there’s no mention of Thyroid on their website.

            By the way, the “good guy” at PCCA said that their company spent a lot of money testing their drugs to make sure ingredients were spot on as they were used for compounding so quality would not be an issue with their products…

            So I don’t know, but I’m going to go see my Dr in the next couple of weeks (different city) and will get a prescription for it.

          • Alissa says:

            Every compounding pharmacy I have gone to (7 now) has or can and will get the NDT powder and there is no connection whatsoever with ERFA which is a commercial preparation made in Spain (formerly Belgium I believe) – not Canada. I have a big long message ‘awaiting moderation’ from a couple days ago mentioning PCCA and lots of info on how the compounding works – not sure why it has not been posted. The PCCA powder is just dried porcine thyroid (20-35%) and lactose (65-80%) Most of the pharmacies use them, but Medisca is the other big supplier in North America: https://www.medisca.com/. I would prefer not to have the lactose so I’m waiting to hear back on what exactly is in the Medisca powder. You also can find out exactly how much T3 & T4 is in each batch – ask for the ‘certificate’.

            Some people really like the compounded synthetics and there is way more flexibility with the dosing this way. Also think about getting the slow release capsules – I’m going to experiment with that rather than multi-dosing (which I often miss and don’t do consistently enough) and I’m also going to do some experimenting with slow release T3 on top of the NDT – I’ve had a few pharmacists and naturopaths recommend that. I’m still shopping around, but Finlandia, Kripps, and Pure all look pretty good and they do ship – internationally even, but there are compounding pharmacies everywhere. I’m really excited about getting to customize something exactly to my needs and wish I would have gone this route years ago. I think the ERFA getting ruined is actually going to be for the best for me because it’s forcing me into something way better.

          • Alissa, where are you seeing that about the high percentage of lactose for what is used in compounded ndt? Can you post a link? The ndt powder made in the US at American labs for all prescription ndt only has a trace of lactose (probably because of what the pigs are fed). So I’m unclear why the powdered porcine for compounded would have such a high amount of lactose.

          • Alissa says:

            I was told by that same pharmacist that they have to mix the dried thyroid powder with something for compounding purposes just so they could measure/weight it for accurate dosing. I guess the powder on its own is so potent even very accurate scales won’t measure it.

          • Something doesn’t sound right. All prescription NDT’s do use the powder as is…

          • Alissa says:

            According to the Medisca’s MSDS – the 65-80% lactose by weight is the deal with the powder from American Labs. It is surprising since one of the main reasons people use compounding pharmacies is to avoid lactose.

            Why are you not publishing my posts? I thought I had information people should know, but you are not sharing it so I guess I will not post here anymore.

          • Hmm. I’m just not sure that’s true that the powder from American Labs has 65-80% lactose. It’s so odd. As far as not publishing your posts, I’m not sure what you mean. All have been approved, so something must have gone wrong.

          • Alissa says:

            Weird – when I look at this board, I see two of my posts saying ‘your comment is awaiting moderation’ – one from March 31 and one from today.

            I emailed American Labs to ask who their distributors are. Both PCCA and Medisca sell it with that same lactose content, but maybe there are others that don’t?? I have yet to find a pharmacy that gets it from anywhere other than those two though and I’ve been to 7. I do have one pharmacist looking into it to see if they can find something without that much lactose outside their normal suppliers, but it might not exist.

            Commercial prescription preps probably can buy just the died thyroid powder in bulk without that much lactose because they would be buying a lot of it. That pharmacist told me they have to add more of something when it’s sold for compounding so they can measure it and even then it’s a very small amount so the pharmacy has to add their own fillers to fill a capsule.

        • Alissa says:

          American Labs was totally unhelpful and would not give me any info on their products or distributors. However, both PCCA and Medisca were super responsive and got back to my right away by phone or email. Neither adds the lactose themselves – they just sell the bulk porcine thyroid powder exactly how they get it from American Labs. Here is the link to Medisca’s SDS again since it was in one of my messages from a few days ago that did not get published and is still awaiting moderation: https://www.medisca.com/NDC_SPECS/MUS/1654/MSDS/1654.pdf

          I do have a pharmacist checking to see if he can get anything else from beyond North America (New Zealand seems like the best option – might be coming from the same or similar source for what goes into ThyroGold – they have porcine and bovine), but right now I don’t have any choice other than to have some lactose with my compounded NDT. Crossing the border for other not great options with no insurance coverage is the only alternative other than ThyroGold. I’m from the US and am down there all the time, but the American commercial prescription NDTs are about as expensive as the compounded stuff in Canada (more after my insurance coverage) and they all seem to have their own issues anyway. I tried Armour back in 2014 and did not like it nearly as much as the old ERFA.

          I’m tempted to try to round up some investors to produce an organic/grass fed/humanly pasture raised/sustainable/hypoallergenic (or close to it) prescription NDT. Obviously, there’s a market for it! I am envisioning a wishful thinking business model that sells high end pork chops to pay for free or greatly discounted/subsidized NDT for as many people as possible. I’ve never liked taking something originating from commercial feedlots everyday as I believe some of the pain and suffering those animals endure gets bound up in the products made from their dead bodies.

          I will keep you posted on the Heath Canada investigation and testing of the ERFA – they should be getting my samples tomorrow. I have to say that I’ve been extremely impressed by the guy I’ve been communicating with on this – he is very professional, thoughtful and cordial. I’ve been pushing him to look at the fillers and source of the dried thyroid was well as just the T3 and T4 levels, but we’ll see what they actually do. I’m beyond pleasantly surprised that they are even conducting an investigation which is way more of a response than I expected when I filled out the online complaint form – like Nohan I assumed that was a waste of time, but I felt like I had to do it after having the bad reaction again and I’m really glad I did. I did hang onto enough of the new bad batch and my old good stuff to have my own analysis done if I want down the road, but I would probably rather just take the old ERFA – it hurt to even send 7 pills of that away for the testing.

          • ThyroGold is already out there and is the grass-fed NDT you describe….

          • Nohan says:

            I have thought the same thing and even looked for a “recipe” in old books as I have relatives and friends raising organic beef and pigs.

            I read on a forum several years ago that a woman was making it and commented that the measuring had to be very precise.

            I’m OK with lactose so am going to get some compounded at drug store in Kelowna, as the pharmacist is on board to bring it in from PCCA.

          • Alissa says:

            I want the insurance coverage which is why I would like to see better prescription options that are consistently available. I’m also not so sure ThyroGold is organic – just grass fed/pature raised – and it sounds like you have to take quite a few capsules of it – I’d like something more potent.

            I don’t have a huge issue with lactose so I will go the compounding route too for now. There are several pharmacies in Vancouver that stock it so no special order is necessary. I just thought I would look for something lactose free since I do generally avoid it along with soy and corn, but not as much a gluten which is a much bigger problem for me. A few of these pharmacists I’ve been talking to also did not realize there was so much lactose in the powder so there were grateful I brought that to their attention.

          • Actually no, many people on ThyroGold are doing well on only two 150 mg capsules. If they end up needing more, they can move to the 300 mg capsule, etc.

          • Alissa says:

            That’s good to know and I may try it at some point, but I do want the medical supervision and standing order for labs. I’m afraid my doctors – at least the endo who’s been prescribing the NDT for 8 years – would drop me if I went that route. He’s getting old though and will be retiring before too long so I’ll have to find someone else. Naturopaths are ok, but can they get spendy fast and I don’t like to use them for things that should be covered under the provincial health plan. I have yet to find a regular MD/family doc that is comfortable prescribing the NDT. There is the prescription insurance issue too – I’m used to paying $4-5 CAD for 100 days of ERFA so I kind of get sticker shock when looking at other options.

            I hate the idea of all the NDT in North America coming from American Labs. I did not know that and it seems like a very precarious situation – no wonder there have been shortages. Monopolies are never good. I think there really needs to be an alternative for compounding without lactose – I was shocked to find there isn’t. I am going to see what I can track down or get produced for myself and look into the regulations involved to get it to the distributors like PCCA & Medisca.

          • Alissa says:

            I found a compounding pharmacy that gets their NDT from New Zealand with no fillers. I’m getting capsules with just the pure thyroid and vitamin C. If you have an aversion to lactose and/or feedlots, keep asking around and be persistent – you’ll find someone that already has or is willing to get what you want, especially when they know you’ll be a long-term repeat customer. This stuff is not cheap though – I hope it’s worth it!

          • Nohan says:

            Good Work!!!
            Is it a chain pharmacy or privately owned? I’m in the Interior so am limited in choice. I’ve been phoning independent ones, but no luck so far…just PCCA.

            Let me know….and maybe they will mail prescriptions…..I’ve had that before…

            Thanks for having such great determination!

          • Alissa says:

            It’s Kripps – Dr. Thorpe, the owner, is great.
            https://krippspharmacy.com/

          • Dee says:

            Alissa, I’ve been following your posts about Health Canada doing the testing, and I want to thank you for the work you’re doing. I don’t have the same energy as you do, at this time, to do a lot of leg work. Hopefully Health Canada will also test the new ERFA for any sort of contaminants such as ‘Round-up’ or similar toxins. I’m wondering if that isn’t the problem with the new ERFA, and perhaps the fillers they are using now are not as clean/pure as the old ERFA.

            I’m in Canada, and my options are dwindling. I’m having a compound pharmacist make up some ndt with just potato starch to see if I can tolerate that. My last try was ndt with glycine, but the glycine won’t work for me because I found out it metabolizes to oxalates in the body. Thyro-Gold doesn’t work for me because of the added ingredients. Nutrimeds has changed their formula because their source for New Zealand hormone has retired. Plus, nutrimeds isn’t that strong. I have a few old ERFA tabs left, and some nutrimeds, but I’m severely under-dosed.

            About the compounded, I’m wondering if the problem isn’t also the ndt that is available right now. I had a reaction to the glycine/ndt combo, so once I try the ndt/potato starch combo, I’ll know if it’s the ndt because I’ve tolerated potato starch for 20 years now. I’ll know soon. After that, I really have no option but to be un-medicated.

            I’ll report back after I try the potato starch combo. I’m also very interested in hearing any Health Canada updates you might have. Thanks for the link to Kripps pharmacy, too.

          • Alissa says:

            I was wrong about the Kripps compounded NDT not having any fillers – it does have dextrose, potato starch, and microcrystalline cellulose in addition to the NDT from New Zealand and I then had that mixed with vitamin C. They would not divulge their source for the NDT in New Zealand, but I did find out the T3 & T4 content. It has slightly less T4 (33.4 mcg/grain-62.5mg) and about the same T3 (8.7 mcg/grain-62.5mg) as the ERFA. It is small mom & pop pharmacy and the only one I found that uses NDT from New Zealand so it could dry up if too many people look to them – I really thought twice about even saying who it was. Everywhere else that I inquired got the American Labs NDT via PCCA or Medisca and it all had that lactose that I didn’t want. I too have wondered if something wasn’t off with he NDT itself, but it seems like plenty of people are doing ok on it so it must be just some of us that are sensitive to something that wasn’t there before. The Roundup they dump on the Monsanto GMO corn & soy is really scary and pretty much all commercial pigs are fed that these days. New Zealand never allowed that stuff in. I’ve only been taking the compounded kiwi NDT for a couple days so it’s too early to tell, but I am trying to stay hopeful since I’m pretty much out of other good options too.

            I also hope Health Canada does test more than the active ingredients (T3 & T4), but that might be all they do. I will look into getting my own analysis done somewhere if that’s the case since I did hang onto enough to have tested. It doesn’t really matter though – I know I can’t take it anymore. Aside from the hypo symptoms there was something else happening muscle and anxiety wise with me that was very unusual and definitely not ok. Health Canada just received the samples last Wednesday (Apr. 6) so I think it will be at least a few weeks before I hear anything else from them. I will post here when I do.

  62. tyra says:

    Inhouse does require an rx and no more credit cards. I had to pay with ck info but it all went well. You are correct that Inhouse does not specify that thyroid meds are rx on the website but… it is in their question/answer section. Once that rx is on file tho, you are good to go.

    If you have or can get an rx,, universaldrugstore also sells Erfa and Naturethroid very reasonably. Universal also requires an rx.

  63. Angie says:

    Thanks to Mike re crushing/chewing ERFA. I’d love to hear others weigh in. I did try chewing..didn’t see any difference. One thing I noticed was that all my recent ERFA was NOT shipped in the manufacturer’s bottle. In-House pharmacy appears to have ERFA available in manufacturer’s bottle…and doesn’t seem to require a prescription…anybody know? thought I’d try Mike’s advice and man bottle..one last time..

  64. Mike says:

    I wanted to provide a follow up from my post of a few days ago. I had developed severe hypothyroidism after starting on my latest batch of ERFA thyroid, so I decided to experimentally crush the tablets before consuming. To do this, I just used the crusher compartment of a pill splitter/crusher to grind them into a fine powder, though of course a mortar and pestle or any number of other things would work fine. From there, I put the contents into an empty gelatin capsule before taking. The result: my hypothyroidism vanished completely and rapidly. Body temps returned to normal and I feel like my old self again.

    Consequently, with an important caveat I tend to believe the ERFA rep who said that testing showed the product was fine. From a sheer tablet potency perspective, the assertion is probably true. Based on my experiment, the tablets likely do contain the usual amounts of T3, T4, T1 and T2–at least in the lot that my current supply was bottled from. However, there must have been a recent change with the tablet fillers or binders since thoroughly crushing the tablet bypassed the problem for me. Whatever changed in the formulation was definitely inhibiting the absorption of a substantial portion of the thyroid hormones. Perhaps some of it was getting locked up and passing right through the body. Who knows? Whatever the case may be, crushing it into a fine powder eliminated the problem for me.

  65. Sarah says:

    I’ve been on Erfa for 4 years. I was on synthroid before then. I have hashimotos. Since January 2015 I haven’t felt well. I take 90 (3 30s). In April 2015 my tsh was 3.92. I was concerned but my dr asked me to not drink coffee in the morning to see if it was absorption issue. Well I just had my tsh tested again and it’s 6.92. No change other than maybe a suspect bunch of thyroid now that I’ve found this board….

    I haven’t felt well for 2 years but I chocked it up to female issues (low iron due to nightmare cycle for which I had a hysterectomy in April 2015)….but now I wonder how much could have been due to lack of meds!!!

    Ugh.

    • Sarah, it is true that there have been batches of Erfa that seem far less effective than they used to be. But…do know that 90 mg is not an optimal dose for the vast majority of folks anyway. i.e. you have most likely been underdosing yourself for two years, as well!! Read this page on how we find our optimal dose of NDT: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101

    • tyra says:

      Sarah… As Janie indicated, you may well have been under-medicated but…. I have taken 90 mgs for years and years and my tsh is always 1+/1- so we are all individuals with different requirements. If Erfa is the culprit, it is easy to verify that by taking another NDT brand, maybe WP or Naturethroid or NP and see how you feel on one of those? I do hope you are addressing your low iron (if shown with labs) since it can be difficult to stabilize NDT dosages if iron is subpar.

      • Tyra, you have to be careful implying this is just about being “individuals with different requirements.” Yes, there are so many areas that each person has different requirements, different needs, etc etc. That you are correct. But after observing and collecting thyroid patient feedback for 14 years, which is what STTM is focused on, it’s pretty clear that yes, the majority are not optimal at 90 mgs and continue to have some symptoms of being undermedicated as Sarah has indicated. Are there exceptions? Yes, but when the majority shows that, Sarah needs to look into that first. We also have seen repeatedly what constitutes “optimal”, and the Natural Thyroid 101 page explains that. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101

        If I were Sarah, and based on years of reported experiences and wisdom, I would study the above page to see how patients find their optimal dose, and consider another brand with that information since Erfa has been problematic for many.

  66. Mike says:

    Just thought I’d add a comment here about my experiences with ERFA thyroid. I’m a male who has used some form of desiccated thyroid for 20 years–originally Armour and then ERFA in more recent years. I’ve taken between 2 and 3 grains daily at various times over the years with good results. My current ERFA thyroid batch, which is lot # LF03727A and has an expiration date of 4/2017, is definitely under-performing.

    In recent weeks my waking basal temp has suddenly run a frosty 95.1 – 95.4 degrees Fahrenheit! I’ve made no changes other than getting a new supply of ERFA thyroid. It’s been a complete thyroid crash. I’m careful with my nutrition and supplementation and my yearly extensive labs bear this out, so it really has to be the thyroid medication itself.

    I wondered why I was feeling so poorly, cold and achy lately, so I started taking my temperatures and realized I wasn’t even making it beyond 96.5 degrees throughout the entire day. It was as if I was taking little or no thyroid at all. Normally, when taking desiccated thyroid, I’ll hit a peak temperature of about 98.2 or 98.3 sometime in the late afternoon, so this was definitely sub-normal for me.

    Last night I remembered I still had a few custom compounded 15 mcg 12 hour timed-release T3 capsules around. It was a prescription filled back in 2007. The relief I started feeling after about two hours of taking one cap was immense. The T3 fortunately had still retained its potency around nine years after formulation. I felt a welcome sensation of warmth and relief beginning in the heart area, which gradually spread out to the rest of the body. Within a few hours I felt human again. My body temp rose from 95.5 to 98.0.

    I’m going to experiment with crushing or increasing the 3 grain ERFA dosage because I think that, for one reason or another, it’s effectively a lot lower than actually stated on the bottle. Unfortunately I stocked up a couple of months ago and have three more bottles of 100 tabs filled from the exact same lot number. If I can’t get results I’ll have to switch to something else.

  67. James Z says:

    You know, a thought occured to me, why can people not make their very own NDT? I mean, once a healthy “donor” is found, what is to prevent anyone from taking that donors (porcine-pig) thyroid and dessicating (drying out to near zero moisture content-at which point I assume it turns to a powder?) it themselves? I don’t have the background to inform anyone in this process, nor exactly what the process is, how to preserve the dessicated product, figuring out dosages, etc…, but my guess is, it is not rocket science, and should be a fairly easy process, albeit a tedious one! While I am no genius, anyone with a modicum of common sense should be able to do the research necessary to make their own, and at a far lesser cost than any of the companies stated above!! As far as dosages, start very small and work your way up to a tracked and measured dosage that works best for you. This takes the hanky right out of the pharma’s spanky!!!! Bet they get right then! My guess is, these companies have all been approached and been told to change their formula to a non-working one, or else! This, coupled with a boat load of hush money, would go a long way! Speaking of hush money, my guess in this regard is that they are under gag once they make the deal with the devil!! For shame, how can they sleep at night? Of course, this is all mearly conjecture on my part, but given the vast sums involved, associated with ill thyroid patients versus “healthy” thyroid patients, I would not be surprised if my theory (hypothesis?) isn’t correct!! I am simply amazed at how often patients are more informed and knowledgable on this subject than their very own doctor(s) are, the individual that you are going to for answers in the first place!!!!! Astounding! Even more amazing is the fact that a lot of these doctors still strut around like they are smarter than us, or at least do their best to project this image, such that their confidence is not completely destroyed. Pitiful!! I have other thoughts as well, such as bromides and iodine being antagonists towards one another as a possible reason for Iodine allergy……., but I will post these in relevant blogs. My Fiance has had her thyroid removed because of these inept quacks that call themselves men of medicine! I will not rest until I find the most synergetic solution(s) that I can, to make her life as easy, healthy, and uninterrupted by this man-made (for the most part) health issue, as I possibly can. Why do we even need doctors, other than for emergencies, when we are forced to do their job for them, either because they just simply don’t know what they are doing, or have simply “sold out” for prestige and money. EVERYONE needs to shame these people every time they let ignorance or mindless parroting slip out of their mouth!! They will will either quit the profession, run out of patients still willing to be their meal ticket (to their own detriment), or they will wise up, start doing their own research and analysis, and start doctoring as they should have been all along! Doctors; do not fear the AMA, your peers, or any other strictly for profit (over patient care) agency! If you start doing the right thing, you will be revered and truly making a difference! Oh, and you’ll have no shortage of patients!!

  68. Janine says:

    I am also in Canada. Quite frankly, I have just about given up hope. I have had 3 different endos, with 3 different protocols and views on the whole Thyroid mess. Not to mention a couple regular MD’s. They are all brainwashed to believe what they believe as gospel, as they do not live it on a daily basis. They just follow what they are fed, rightfully so. They don’t actually care and we are all just uninformed whiners.(in their eyes) I am sick and tired, literally, of being a guinea pig for their research. This is all that I have been for years. My life goes down the drain, while they sit back and profit anyway. Do I sound bitter? hmm..This should not be rocket science to fix! I suppose it’s called Medical” Practice” for a reason. There is strength in numbers. Is there any way that some of us can get connected in our Countries and towns, to actually be able to monitor and support one another. We are all living the same life of misery, basically alone. Not that I am not thankful for this board as it literally saved my life. I learned on here to ask for the TPO test which showed my levels at +6,300 when it should be <3. Then I was casually told that I had Hashimotos. Relief…So, I"m not really lazy and crazy as I was told most of my life, with only TSH tests? I did all of those uppers and downers and anti-d"s for nothing? Such a trusting soul (fool) I used to be. Knowledge is power, for sure. However, we remain powerless in this sense without the stamina to help ourselves for the most part. I believe that this is a huge reason for the sudden mental health crisis. My opinion..however, it is fairly an educated one. (sorry no plaque on my wall…lol) Love to you all…any thoughts? Sorry for the rant.

  69. Dee says:

    I was one of the posters from way back in the beginning who instantly began having problems with ERFA once it was reformulated (or whatever they did with it). I’m in Canada, so haven’t had many alternatives, and I react badly to chemical T4 hormone. I also reacted to ThyroGold because of the other ingredient(s) (coleus). I’ve tolerated nutrimeds wonderfully, though; but my tsh is now 54.76… so, I clearly need something stronger. Has anyone in Canada had any luck using Health Canada’s Special Access Programme to get ndt from the US sent into Canada? It’s a form your doctor fills out.

    • Sandra says:

      Wow, Dee, I did not know about this form and that we can actually get US NDT this way. I too would love to know about this and if anyone had any luck. I would serious consider it.
      I will keep an eye out here.
      thanks!

  70. Anna says:

    Janie, can I ask what you are taking instead of Erfa?

  71. erin sheen says:

    thanks for the link, that was helpful. I too left armour after all the changes and won’t go back. Have been happy on Erfa for 5 years but the cost is expensive as I would get other drugs made in the uS covered by insurance. Does anyone’s insurance in the US cover it? It seems like Acella or Naturethoid seem to be a good bet? Are they avail in US pharmacies?

    • tyra says:

      Erin..the NP by Acella and Naturethroid by RLC Labs are both available in the US but stock can vary from pharmacy to pharmacy. You often have to call and see what they stock and have them ck to see if they can order one of them for you. My husband takes NP by Acella. When we called our local pharmacy, they said they didn’t have it. I asked them to ck their order forms and sure enough. They could order it special for him. So that is what we did.

      Whether or not one’s insurance covers thyroid meds, it all depends on the insurance company and their parameters. Some will cover Naturethroid, for instance, for little money but, if you want another brand, you may end up paying $ 25 – $ 35.00 each month. Sometimes, especially with coupons, you can end up paying a little less if you pay cash and bypass the insurance company altogether.

      ps. If you have a prescription for natural thyroid meds and are considering using Naturethroid, I just checked Universaldrugstore.com’s website and they offer Erfa and Naturethroid. The Naturethroid prices seem extremely reasonable (also free shipping now). I ordered from them for years for my Erfa before that got squirrely. You just email them a copy of your rx after you place your order.

  72. tyra says:

    I don’t know of any prescription thyroid med that isn’t porcine (pig) based. But since you were doing well on the old erfa couldn’t you just try another prescription thyroid med like NP by Acella or WP by RLC Labs?

    Nutrimeds makes a bovine based whole glandular that Janie says isn’t as strong as the Thryrogold that you have checked out. I think the dosing would be similar to the instructions given on the Thyrogold website.

  73. Esther says:

    Thanks to STTM I was educated well and switched to Erfa 60mg . It was big difference ! ErFa saved me for good 7-8 yrs, but in late 2014 my symptoms slowly returned. miserable again !
    My first option was switch to Thyrogold … After some detailed reading I discovered that Thyrogold contains FORSCOLIN ingredient which intefer with B450-hepatic enzymes ,as the result of this inteferance is increased deposition of fat in liver cells. I am already was diagnosed with fatty liver!!! I don’t know what is other option for me to switch?? I prefer bovine NT. Any advice ?

    • Esther says:

      Thank you Tyra! I’ ll continue my research regarding bovine NT. Eventually , I choose one of them.
      I feel so disappointed with Erfa… So many yrs I was ok always used Univarsal Drag store pharmacy
      And cost me $85 for 10 months supply . If anyone tried to call Erfa and to express our concern about inconsistency in batches?

      • tyra says:

        If you read some of Janie’s old posts, you will note that Erfa has been contacted by more than a few folks about their ‘bad’ batches but Erfa keeps insisting that all is right with the world..lol..

        I used Universal also for years and love their service and the Erfa I got from them. They are also selling Naturethroid at a very reasonable price (I just checked their website.) If you already have an rx on file with them, maybe ask if they will send you a smaller quantity of Naturethroid (just to try it out?) instead of Erfa before you give up on the prescription NDT altogether?

  74. E. says:

    So, if Armour is crap now and now my beloved Erfa is no longer reliable, what is everyone switching to that is more reliable???

  75. Mariella says:

    Hello. I am new to this website and I have a few questions. I am reading a lot of complaints about Erfa and I am wondering, which brand is the best replacement for Erfa: WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid or Thyrogold? Can anyone tell me what kind of results they have received from WP Thyroid, NP Thyroid and Thyrogold? Why is Thyrogold so different from all the others? I saw Tyra’s post about it being good and I read about it on Janie’s website but what make the Thyrogold so special? Does anyone know the names of reputable pharmacies that sell any of the above to overseas clients? Please provide websites for the pharmacies. I know I am asking many questions but I am trying to do research and someone told me that here is a great place to start. Thanks in advance.

    • They all work. Everyone just has their favorites. You just have to make sure you understand how to find your optimal dose, which is explained here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 🙂 Google ThyroGold and you’ll find its website for ordering.

    • tyra says:

      Mariella… I take WP and am having good luck with it after being an Erfa user for years. My hubby (recently diagnosed with hypo) takes NP by Acella and he is doing great on that. The different rx thyroid meds all have their different ‘fans’. Maybe it is the fillers in the different brands that some don’t respond well to?? We all have to try the different ones and see which ones suit us. We are all different and can react differently to the same meds.

      Thyrogold is NOT a prescription med. It is a whole glandular and is far weaker than the prescription meds. Here in the states, it is treated as a vitamin or food supplement. I think for some folks who are just barely hypo and don’t have iron or adrenal issues, it can meet their needs. For the rest of us who need the concentrated prescription meds, it is only a faint shadow of the ‘real deal’. There are groups, especially in the UK, that you could join and ask about the USA suppliers to overseas users? They would probably be more familiar with what companies or vendors ship to foreign customers. All ‘main street’ type pharmacies that sell thyroid meds in the USA do require prescriptions.

      There isn’t anything particularly ‘special’ about ThyroGold and NutriMeds (another whole glandular) except they do have a good track record at helping some folks with thyroid challenges and they are sold ‘over the counter’ (no prescription required). I am sure you can google or do an internet search for these two products and see if they ship overseas as Janie said. I think the Nutrimeds are available overseas. You might ck Amazon UK?

      • Believe it or not, ThyroGold isn’t far weaker. It’s pretty equivalent to prescription meds. NutriMeds is far weaker, yes, but if enough is taken, it seems to work.

        • tyra says:

          Thanks for the correction, Janie, about ThyroGold. I tried it back when Armour was reformulated and there were shortages all over the country and it did little or nothing for me. But… that was just my experience with it. And I am not a heavy doser of NDT. I have been stable on 90 mgs for 20 yrs. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time?

          By the way, this site saved my life back then. I learned from STTM about how to have my NP write my rx for NDT (for desiccated thyroid .. no brand name … and that Erfa was available in Canada and about Universal Drug. I was a happy camper until Erfa messed up. So, thank you, Janie.

          • Well, doesn’t surprise me if you didn’t feel it did much for you. There are always gray areas in everything I report on! But I can say that for the vast majority who report their experiences on it, ThyroGold seems to be just as effective as prescription NDT if raised to find one’s optimal dose.

            Really glad STTM helped you! That was my purpose in compiling it, so it makes me smile. 🙂

  76. Trisha says:

    Really confusing & frustrating no matter how well informed one is! I WAS on ERFA and ready to reorder last year until all the initial bad news started. I wasn’t going to chance spending top dollar for ERFA to have to throw it down the drain, and then have NO thyroid medication! So, the Armour had been tweeked & improved in 2012 after their disastrous reformulation, which I am on now. So, HOW am I doing… all things considered (labs, iron, knowing NDT and my body) – I’d say okay to fair, but NOT soaring or at my best. Some days seem a struggle. But… I DON’T know what to do, doctors & money aside! ERFA still seems unresolved!
    ARMOUR though doable, isn’t what it use to be! NATURE-THROID is okay, but I’ve never seemed to do really well on it the 3-4 times I’ve tried! I have not been on WP – but I have NOT really heard any reliable comments about it or much about it at all really – have you? ACELLA gets great reviews but it seems hard to get at times and over the last 3 years, it seems like it’s been on back order at least 4 times; so it’s supply seems unreliable if not difficult! Oh, and I tried Thiroyd for two months and that was a disaster!
    Any WISE feedback is greatly appreciated. I am stateside. Thank YOU!

    • WP Thyroid has worked well for folks. NP Thyroid is slowly making a comeback in pharmacies, luckily.

      • Marla says:

        Trisha – your story sounds like mine. I went on Armour on Nov13. 6 months later had rapid heartbeat issues but they passed. My biggest complaint on Armour had been abnormal weight gain, puffy face and brain fog, but i felt better than on Synthroid (headaches, liver issues, etc). 6 months ago, I switched to Nature Throid and now again I am having rapid heartbeat, headaches, tinnitus, high blood pressure….and still no weight loss with exercise and diet and puffy face. I am debating whether to try Erfa? Something seems to always happen at the 6-month mark….is that when steady state is reached? So frustrated and now reading all these comments, I’m not sure what I should be on! I keep trading some symptoms for others.

  77. Lisa R. says:

    Hi there,
    I changed from Synthroid to ERFA 3 years ago. I noticed the difference between “old” and “new” pills but just in the aspect, not in the effect. It’s still working perfectly well on me.
    Concerning the smell, I think that maybe the pills are compressed harder than before so there is less smelly powder in the bottle…
    Just an idea.

    • nomorebadnews! says:

      Thanks for sharing this! It’s encouraging and helpful to hear you are doing well.

    • Susan says:

      Yes it’s definitly good to read this 🙂
      And I agree with the link compression/powder/smell
      I find the pills easier to take now even if they take more time melt if taken sublingually.

  78. Jenny says:

    Perhaps I shouldn’t say this but……..I am still not coping with ERFA. I decided to drastically cut my dose and cut it right in half with the view to going up really slowly…almost 2 months later and I cant get above half my original dosage without terrible horrible migraine with visuals et al…just the same in fact as when I used to try to take all the different brands of levo…so I’m wondering if, just maybe someone’s simply chucked in some synthetic stuff for whatever reason. Maybe as suggested to ‘prove’ the natural ones dont work, or even a response to complaints that symptoms were returning on various dud batches over the last few years. The way I’m feeling is so very like when on levo I simply cant think it can be anything else and I am so disgusted and disappointed about this. Still struggling, putting on weight and feeling completely rubbish. !

  79. Janine says:

    I’m leaning towards Fatima’s theory! How can they possibly label the pills the same, when clearly they are not. It would be nice to know what we are putting into our bodies. (cough, viox, cough) I am using the few old ones that I saved in the freezer after I saw what happened with the Armour. I am too afraid of the new ones.There is only one truth and we are not being told it.

  80. Fatima says:

    Wow….this explains a lot of symtpoms…I noticed these pills don’t taste as bad as they used to….thought it was just me. Who owns Erfa? I sniff out big pharma trying to “prove” natural doesn’t work so everyone is forced to use synthetics…..thoughts?

    • Fatima, that has been proposed before and is probably not the case. They are out to make money, and they do so on NDT as well.

    • tyra says:

      Fatima, Erfa is produced under the control of the Canadian government. Canadians can only be prescribed Erfa…. no other NDT product to the best of my knowledge. Of course, if Big Pharma is behind the Erfa in some indirect fashion, then your theory may have some validity..

  81. Lesia says:

    I’ve been on Synthroid for 11 years and just discovered I’m allergic to it so my Endo started me on Erfa today. I’ve been reading up on Erfa and sincerely hope it works for me without issues because I’ve had a thyroidectomy so my options are limited.

  82. Janine says:

    Janie,
    I am so upset that I can’t sleep. I came across an old bottle of Erfa from 2009.
    There is no comparison in smell! The 2009 bottle smells like bovine and the 2015 bottle smells like synthetics. Clearly, the formula is different. Can anyone else attest to this?

    • Suze says:

      Yes I did notice the differnt smell and appearance of Erfa sometime in late 2014. I continue to give it a chance but it is different and I always get enraged and go back to synthetics which are not working either. When I switched to Erfa in Sept 2012 I gradually went up to one grain and then 1 /12, 2, up fo 2 1/2 grains. I lost nearly 50 lbs of hypo weight. Something really bad started in late 2014 and the pills did not work. I thought it was my diet when I regained 30 lbs, but it’s all on the waist now. I never had that issue before. I had eye pain and one lung infection after another and permanent diarrhea and skin conditions and brain fog….these were not issues for me before. Either the pills are weak and these are hypo symptoms or some toxin in the pills was hurting me. Right now on synthetics I just have the brain fog off and on. I hope to get my hands on Acella or WP – anything but the Erfa or Armour that rampantly harmed patients.

    • Twee says:

      Yes, I remember the smell was overwhelming before. I used to avoid smelling the pills. Now it’s unnoticeable when I take them.

      • Linda McAllister says:

        I wanted to reply to your comment about ‘baby fine hair’. Mine is the same over the past 6 months….I had no idea it might be related to ERFA. I have been on it for 12 years, and have had good months and bad months not knowing about this inconsistency wiith the medication. I have called my pharmacy several times to ask about the medication, if something was different and they said “No.” I am relieved to know that its not all in mh head. And since the summer my hair is falling out, and for the past year, I’m hot all the time. Not hot flush hot, just hot/warm.

  83. Twee says:

    Just wanted to note the older pills created some “dust” through friction in the bottle. The surface of the new ones don’t seem to do that. I’m not sure if/how they are “sealing” the new pills. Have they always used just pressure or some innocuous sealant?

    I wonder where the previous factory was?

    Just want to note also that my hair has become very baby fine. I assume it’s more a hyper symptom?

    **My doctor gives me a prescription of 6x30mg/day so I am free to adjust my dose based on how I feel. Dr also gives me a low dose Synthroid prescription that I can supplement with. Maybe some of your doctors can do this? It can help with insurance issues if it seems the batch is not effective enough. If you need more then you’ve got it.

    • Just an FYI: adding T4 to NDT has caused some patients to start making too much RT3, the inactive hormone. NDT is 80% T4 anyway.

      • Twee says:

        I def feel hypo and I had no idea erfa had changed anything. Now it makes sense.

        Thanks for the info re Synthroid. My T4 is always really low, T3 really High and my TSH is non-existent even when T3 & T4 are low. I definitely feel hypo but then my hair issues seem to swing between hyper (fine) and hypo(wiry). My hair used to be insanely thick now I look like middle aged man. I’ve never had it grow back since starting treatment for Hashi’s hypo 8 years ago. Small Synth dose once/twice a week seemed to stop the fallout though.

        It’s such a mystery. I also couldn’t lose any of the weight until I was given Dexedrine. I also have a severe scaby rash head to toe. Maybe gluten related? Maybe even erfa change exacerbated as it has become much worse within the last year.

    • tyra says:

      Twee… Erfa used to be mfg in a factory in Belgium. Now they are mfg in Spain and that seems to be when the appearance of the tablet changed and the complaints started rolling in.

      I also remember how ‘dusty’ the Belgium Erfas were in the bottle. I don’t know if it is the ingredients that have changed (the powers that be deny this vehemently) or if it is the way the Erfa is mfg now (harder coating??) but
      something was/is different. That being said, some folks have done just fine on the new ‘Spanish’ Erfa but many
      haven’t.

      • Suze says:

        I have always chewed my thyroid pills. If there is no change in formula except the machines pressing them harder, there would be no change in effect when I chewed them up. But they don’t work the same – even the batches that I posted were good before. Did they lose their potency? I did fine on the new Erfa for short periods of time, a day or up to a week at a time, but no consistency. It was like the pills in one bottle were not even from the same batch. I realized that any testing will be useless if they pick one pill from a batch and assay it. Who is guaranteeing that every pill in a dispensed bottle is from the same batch? They could pick, say, ten random pills from a bottle, and test them separately, to be slightly more accurate and see if they are all from the same batch. I don’t even get how this is allowed to happen. Why can’t our pills be made in North America, with strict standards?

        • Twee says:

          I think the testing and production standards are very high in all EU countries; however, there may have been changes made to the manufacturing process that are considered negligible by any country’s standards. For example, there are vitamins that test correctly in the lab but do not absorb well in the body if they are not encased correctly.

  84. Rachel's Awakening says:

    The Doctors are not ignorant or stupid when it comes to Thyroid treatment or options. It is with intent that they withhold the medication. You may be in a “referral racketeering ring” as I call it. Dr.s communicate and refer patients to other Dr.s they know will also not help you. Find a good pharmacy, ask them for a list of Dr.s known to prescribe desiccated thyroid, take it to you doctor and ask for your right to choose your hormone treatment or refer you to one from your own list. They get a little more cooperative when they realize that another Doctor outside of their “circle of friends” will see how they have neglected your symptoms and have withheld your right. Also, start a medical journal and log every appointment and make notes right in front of the Doctor. I have been doing this for years. My good Doctors understand and do not take it personally and any UN-Doctor will see that you are keeping track. Bring a supportive friend or relative with you who knows what you want. You can also contact the College of Physicians. Usually after I make the phone call and just explain what happened, without making a formal complaint, the UN-Doctor has a change of mind? Just out of the blue, no coincidence :-)8

  85. Janet says:

    Canadian. I had radio active thyroid when I was a 18. Killed most of my thyroid. Hypothyroid for 45 years took Levothyroxine then it stopped working, I have been on ERFA for 3 years and have struggled. The thing is one shoe does not fit all people. I take my thyroid med a.m. with water, no food especially no milk and I also take KELP or iodine drops. I also did a reboot of my intestinal flora. Absorption is everything and if your gut is compromised from poor eating habits you don’t absorb drugs and food properly. I have no problem on my Canadian ERFA the past year and feel great. I recommend looking to other causes why you personally are not responding well on ERFA. Once I revised my methods of taking the med. and my eating habits I am more than happy with the results. You need iodine to help absorb the ERFA. North Americans are low on iodine as our soil is ruined. Especially, if you have dumped iodized salt.

  86. Brenda says:

    What is going on??? I have noticed over the past few months that about an hour after I take my ERFA thyroid Med’s I feel awful! Tired. Foggy brained. Achy. Nausea. I am now into my second refill so into a fourth month. I just found all of this info earlier today and it is so upsetting. I am going to head to a naturopath to see if he or she can help me. I don’t think my DR will listen as I had to plead with her to allow me to try Thyroid. I don’t want to revert back to Synthroid but what the H is a person supposed to do? I have tried to show empathy to my sputtering thyroid but today I hate it!

    • tyra says:

      I know it is difficult if not impossible to get any other kind of natural desiccated thyroid except Erfa in Canada. But maybe you can check out the websites for Thyro Gold or Nutri Meds? In the States, they are classified like vitamins because they aren’t supposed to contain any T 3 and are considered ‘whole’ glandulars (much weaker than the prescription extract of desiccated thyroid) but… some folks have good luck with them. They aren’t cheap and some have to take quite a large dose (working up slowly with dosage) but maybe worth a shot? I know the Thyro Gold has dosage instructions on their website that I am pretty sure would apply to the Nutri-Meds. Nutri-Meds are available in either a bovine (cow) or porcine (pig) formula. Does Canada let you import vitamins from the US? If so, these should make it into the country as well, I would think.

  87. Adam says:

    Hello,

    I used Synthroid for 5 years and I finally found a good holistic doctor who prescribed ERFA Thyroid (I live in Canada and there are only ERFA).

    I use Thyroid for 6 months, I feel much better, my blood tests are good, but I lose my hair a lot, while I never lost my hair with Synthroid. I have blood tests every six weeks and my doctor increase my dose based on my symptoms. I take 3 grains and I feel fine, exept for hair loss.

    I never had a problem with my hair and no one in my family has hair loss problem.

    Do ERFA Thyroid frequently causes hair loss problems?

    I would not return to Synthroid, but I do not want to lose my hair at 34 years.

    Thanks for your help
    Adam

  88. Jenny says:

    Having previously mentioned how I had gotten used to my latest bottle of ERFA, now am using a new bottle with exactly the same expiry date as before and also the same Lot number even…..I am about to stop taking them altogether as for over a week I have been having ocular migraines almost daily, odd absent sensations, insominia, numbness in arms and more……These are Lot: LF03139B with expiry 10/2016. Quite extraordinary and I dread stopping as I will become useless and virtually unable to move. This is not in my head, it is horribly real and I am terrified of the consequences.

  89. Trisha says:

    So, in a nutshell, it appears that there is NO clear, and certainly, no definitive resolution of the unprecedented problems with ERFA which began in 2014. Too bad, really too bad! It had
    an excellent reputation, was the FIRST
    choice after the reformulation of Armour,
    and now… another once great NDT down the tubes! How manufacturers can turn a blind eye is beyond me!

  90. Pamela says:

    I am so glad to have found this site – I have been having problems with ERFA purchased in June 2015, it is just not having the impact it did when I first started the treatment in December. I am up for a new bottle so I will get it and post whether there are any differences and info on the first and second bottles. This is really frustrating.

  91. Anna says:

    If anyone here has been taking any of the batches named in the addition to the post (bad/good batches added 08/2015) please add your comments!!! The more we find out, the easier it will (hopefully) be to see a pattern…!

  92. Tammy says:

    Wow cannot believe Erfa is still having problems. I had to come back here to find out. I switched to Acella NP Thyroid when the Erfa script I had I think 2-3 yrs ago seemed like it was not working like it did. I like the NP Thyroid. I let it dissolve under my tongue. I feel better using it for some reason. The doctor wants me to take more but I want to take less. I want to go by how I feel. The dose he wants me take makes me hot, hungry all the time, I’m tired & I gain weight. If I take less I have more energy, not hungry all the time & have lost 20 lbs in the past year.

  93. Diana says:

    How do I get Erfa, do I need a prescription or can I order it online? How do I know how much to take?

  94. ken williams says:

    Been taking dessicated thyroid for a long time. . I was in the medical profession for 40 years till retirement. first used synthroid and then used dessicated. disliked synthroid. . hate feeling sleepy or taking afternoon naps . armour disliked. tried efra from canada and have had good results. heard complaints on users being sleepy and fillers used in pills. on a empty stomach usually early morning i take my efra pill and using two teaspoons crush the tablet in one spoon. first drink half glass of water then carefully deposit crushed pill on the tongue and drink a half glass of water. the pill crushes very easily always wait one hour before eating or drinking after taking the pill.. this has suited me very well and never take a midday nap and feel great. . since i use very little salt i take a sea kelp tablet for iodine daily 150 mcg. Of course I take a multiple vitamin daily as well. recently i ran out of efra pills and used armour for a week till efra pills arrived from Canada. the armour took great pressure to crush . what fillers do they use.? could this be a problem for armour pills to break apart for absorption into the blood Still prefer Efra never have sublingually tried the absorption method,.seems good for people with throat/swallowing problems. This is my experience, hope it helps others on natural thyroid.

    • joy says:

      Thank you for sharing your experience. I wil try crushing the tablet and waiting 1 hour before consuming anything other than water. I would love to no longer need a nap!!! Currently using ERF.

    • Jenny says:

      Having just read your comment about how you take your NDT Ken, I’m going to try the same thing. My last batch of ERFA seemed not to work as well as previously but I’m not atall sure it was anything other than a slight tweek in production which I needed to get used to. I am certainly rather better now after several months of persisting and after boosting all my vitamin and mineral levels. I’m sure also trying your method will help with absorption too. Thankyou. !

  95. Deb says:

    I’m confused. I was ordering efra from England lab antiaging. .com. and they have armour for 89.00 99.00 with shipping anyone tell me what to do

    • ken williams says:

      order efra from universal drug google them they are in canada and uk. i pay 22 USA dollar for 100 tabs. fax them your prescription . i get my cholesterol pills and bood pressure from universal in uk via universal drugs as well. read my comment on efra and taking dessicated efra pills. i live in floida love this pharma service.

      • Tatyana says:

        Ken, will my Synthroid prescription work for getting Thyroid med in Canada?
        My doctor refused to prescribe Thyroid …. Frustrating.
        I live in Washington state, 3 hours from Canada board.
        Thank you.

  96. Kendra says:

    Also experiencing hypo symptoms on erfa Exp may 2017. Which exp dates are good? Or should I switch to Acella? Bummer this stuff was great for years! Why play w people’s health like this. So annoying.

    • ken williams says:

      how to be sure your tablet is absorbing. on a empty stomach first thing in the morning take two tea spoons and crush the pill in one spoon. drink a half glass water take the crushed pill on your tongue then wash down with a half glass water. do not eat or drink for one hour to let it absorb into the blood stream. if your on low salt diet take a sea kelp tablet 250 mcg each day for iodine. this very little so no problem.

  97. Patricia Brannon says:

    I just reordered a new batch of ERFA Thyroid from The Canadian Pharmacy which I started taking on 7/24/15 & all my symptoms have come back. I got 60mg & 30mg for a total of 90mg. The 60mg look like the one in the picture above, all blotchy whereas the 30mg dont. I tried upping to 120mg with 2 60mg & felt worse. Tried 3 x 30mg for 90mg & still feel like hell every day. Also, The Canadian Pharmacy does not send the pills in the original ERFA bottles nor do the provide a Lot # or expiration date? Has anyone else had this issue recently or with pills from The Canadian Pharmacy ?

    • joy says:

      Same with our pharmacy…no lot # and not in original ERFA bottles. Just received call from the Doc who stated that my levels were too high and I should cut the pill or take 2. Seems very unscientific and yet I am planning to double the dosage as the pill crumbles when I cut it. Been on this product for 6 weeks, after having spent a couple of years on levothyroxine, then a 10 month period of no meds at all!

  98. Regina says:

    I decided to try NDT for the first time since being diagnosed nearly 14 years ago. Initially was treated according to TSH test irregardless of symptoms. Resigned to only work part time at the age of 27 years old. Finally managed to get an increase in T4 dosage which seemed allow me to function mostly with less need for napping. However, seemed to require a completely stress free existence in order to stay on a mostly even keel. The tiniest anxiety, like forgetting a word when chatting or get in a rush, would cause me to crash and mess up my circadian cycle, taking days to recover.

    I got 100 tablets of Westhroid Pure back in March using the 2% dosage guidelines given in the ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Hypothyroidism’ by Ken Blanchland. He does mention the manufacturer and storage issues with NDT, and I did a search on the effectiveness of Westhroid (I was looking for Armour originally but the only website I found could get it was out of it). Unfortunately, I can’t remember everything after reading a book once.

    The first 2.5 months were amazing until one day I seemed to be having hypo symptoms again. However, prior to this, I noticed the tablets changing colour and becoming sticky. I recalled the storage and temperature issues, and summer was just beginning. And living in England generally means no AC. I had about 30 tablets left so put them in the fridge and decided it was probably time to reorder anyway. Unfortunately, the website I used was out of Westhroid. Without thinking to check reviews, I placed an order for 300 tablets of Erfa NDT. I wish I had read this page first!

    I feel worse than taking the weird, sticky Westhroid tablets. Feeling irritable, tired all day, brain fog, constipated, body aches, headaches, anxiety, loss of patience with 2 year old, and loss of the new productivity I was experiencing on Westhroid. Guess that I need to write these tablet off as a lesson learned and order a more effective brand.

  99. Caroline says:

    I am having hypo symptoms since switching to a different pharmacy 5 weeks ago. The batches I am taking are: 60mg (Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017) and 30mg (Lot# 14J01, exp: July 2017). Anybody else having problems with these batches?

    • Arch says:

      I’m going to start with Lot# LF03831A, exp. May 2017 soon (coming from Armour to Erfa), will let you know if I get more hypo on it. Hope not since I have 3 jars of that batch… Which symptoms do you have?

    • Anabella says:

      Hi Caroline, I have been taking the same batch (Lot: LF03831A – Exp: 5/2017) and experiencing hypo symptoms as well. I am quite worried if this medication really has what it says. I will switch to another brand ASAP.

  100. Missy says:

    I feel horrible on ERFA. So hypo and just miserable. Exp. date 07/2017
    Lot 14G02

  101. george says:

    I am new to Thryoid meds. I was told to purchase Erfa from the following website:
    http://www.antiaging-systems.com/
    I received a charge on my credit card from China. Do you think Erfa could be producing these thyroid meds in China, and maybe that’s why we’re receiving weird batches. It’s well known that the Chinese will put anything they can into medicines to cut costs. Maybe we should ask Erfa where they are producing their medications.

    In the mean time, I’m wondering where I can purchase good quality, legitimate desiccated thyroid. I was originally using nutria-meds, but someone told me this was not a good brand. What’s the best brand that is available without a prescription?

    Thanks!

    • Terry B says:

      Hello Georges,
      Dr. Knafo told us that Thyroid was made in Spain. Health Canada confirms it. Maybe Anti-aging uses a bank in China in order to reduce charges…
      You didn’t say how you were feeling now that you are on Erfa. Better?
      I am still very good on it and it’s been 5 years now so I hope you will be ok!
      Cheers

  102. Eveline says:

    Also experienced crash on one batch of Erfa pills and had no issues prior or on next batch.

  103. Leona says:

    I’ve been on erfa for 1 year now. I had been on the other stuff for 25 years and felt like sugar pills. I don’t see the difference. They’ve tested my adrenals, okay. I need energy. I need strength to continue this never ending battle. Doc says loos weight, I’ll send you to a nutrionalist… Why? I don’t have the energy to start. My blood test is in ‘range’. Oh, how I wish I could have a normal life in Ontario.

    • Sandra says:

      Leona,
      Have you done tested adrenals? You may have a bad batch of Erfa or you may need to treat other things like adrenals and ferritin/iron.
      take care

    • J says:

      The problem is you are “in range” and that has nothing to do with ERFA. Read the TSH Is Useless page. It doesn’t matter what NDT you are taking, you will feel terrible when “In range”. That is why this site exists.

    • Brigitte says:

      Hi, have you had a stool test? My daughter has been experiencing lots of problems with fatigue, unexplained weight gain etc. Turns out that her stomach and upper bowel inflammation are 2 1/2 times over the highest inflammation levels, hence the unexplained weight gain and fatigue etc. I think it is always paramount to treat the adrenals first and then start on thyroid hormone if needed at all but raised inflammation markers can have very similar effects to thyroid problems. By the way, the stool test is not available on the NHS if you are in the UK so you need to go to a private clinic – but trust me, after 11 years of searching what is going on with my daughter it was well worth the £250 plus consultation fee! She can now have a life again!

  104. CJ says:

    Which batch or batches and grain tabs have you found to be good and bad?

  105. cujet says:

    Just a quick, “no BS” update about the ERFA that I have. My above mentioned symptoms were absolutely caused by a particular bottle of ERFA. I have a newer bottle and am having no significant issues. HOWEVER, if I take a pill from the previous bottle, I feel sedated, my eyes are slow to react and other symptoms too. It’s almost as if that particular batch of ERFA contains Benadryl.

    • tcj says:

      Thank you for this helpful information! to your health and good luck also…i am hoping this was just a bad accident, but then again am afraid…it’s not something I would wish on anyone-even my worst enemy. Being a thyroid patient is very very difficile!

    • Sandra says:

      I too have experienced a good batch, been completely fine, able to walk 1 hour a night etc, then started a new batch this week and wham! I literally wanted to go to sleep on my drive home last night. Pushed myself to walk and I am not even experiencing the overload of stress from work these days like I was on when I was on the good batch.
      I am pissed!!! I purchased 400 pills this time and wont’ get any insurance coverage now on any further ones I buy for some time. Now I have to pay out of pocket to try another batch. When the hell is this going to stop!!!!

  106. tcj says:

    Anyone have any news on trying a newer ‘batch’ of Er-fa? It’s been over fourth month now I am not feeling well at all, and have gained a lot of weight, and am too tired for life.

    I’ve been taking Er-fa pretty much since 2009.

    Trying Acella brand now. I miss the old Armour, and now this!

    • Flo Masson says:

      Last fall I realised all my old thyroid symptoms were back. I saw that there had been a “bad” batch although I suspect there was no actual thyroid in what I had. I called Erfa and was asked to get the batch # which Costco did not keep a record of. My Doctor wrote a new prescription and I began to take those and have been for the last three months. The effect is not anywhere nearly as good as the old Erfa. I have dry skin, am constipated and am gaining weight. It is not as bad as before, but my last test showed I’m taking more thyroid than I should so I have cut back and will be followed closely but I sure wish the old formula was still available. Several others here in Canada are experiencing difficulties with their thyroid medication. Guess I too, need to change brands.

      • If that test you referred to as showing you are “taking more thyroid than you should” is the TSH, might want to read this: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless

        • Flo Masson says:

          Yes, I am aware of the lab tests being useless. I go by my pulse which will speed up if my dose is too high. It comes back down when I lower the dose. I wonder what Erfa gains by changing the formula. Money for sure but I would pay more for the old formula. My sleep habits have changed and I just don’t feel well. Thyroid can be an amazing med when it works. It certainly changed my life and has given me a great 10 years. I began taking it and within two weeks thought I was having a good day. The good days never stopped until Erfa changed the composition of the pill. Sad.

          • Oh no, Flo, lab tests are crucial. It’s just the TSH which ends up being pretty useless once on thyroid meds. Sorry you had to experience the problems so many have with Erfa.

  107. Nick says:

    I’ve been on Thiroid for a few weeks and am feeling a lot better, and I mean a lot!

    Yesterday they took blood for my regular thyroid check-up so I didn’t take the morning dose (60 mg) of Thiroid. I forgot to take it when I came back home from the hospital just before lunch, so took it at around 14:30. I would normally take the second dose (60mg) at 16:00 but decided to put that back until I went to bed. But not wanting to take another 60 mg that late at night, I got the ERFA back out and took a single 30mg tablet. Today I feel awful again, heavy, tired, and lethargic.

    Goodness knows what they added to ERFA last year but it clearly affects some of us very badly.

    • Angie says:

      Hi Nick….I think there may be contaminants as well, but did you see my post regarding my labs on the “new” ERFA? My FT4 was headed south, while my FT3 was ELEVATED as well as my TT3. I have yet to complain to ERFA about this as I’m not sure it would do any good, but I may. Clearly, their Quality Control is off. In some people (and more common in elderly populations), excess T3 can cause a depressed apathy. I call it my “kicked in the chest” feeling as I my chest feels very heavy, I feel like it is an effort to take a deep breath, and I feel very, very tired.

  108. Sheila says:

    In May I wrote about my experience with ERFA over the past year. In January 2015 I had gotten a “good” batch if ERFA, and I reordered in late April and received LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. I am sad to say that I again went hypo on that batch. Same old, same old that so many of us have gone through. I am tired of playing Russian Roulette with my meds, my health, my finances and my well being.
    I asked my doc to change my script to WP Thyroid by RLC labs a few weeks ago. I am soooooo happy to say that I feel better than I have in 14 months since my original (old) ERFA ran out. I have great energy all day, and sleep soundly all night, and I’ve finally lost the 9 lbs I had gained over the past year. I’ve actually ended up with a nice problem: usually my energy for the past year has crashed in the early afternoon. It has not happened since I’ve been taking WP Thyroid. I wait for the energy crash, but it never comes. I’m afraid this means I’ll finally have no excuse not to clean the garage!

    • Sandra says:

      thank you for providing feedback when you feel better, it really helps those of us who have tried a different batch and feel off, start to wonder how can this be? Is it in my mind. I again was stupid and bought 400 pills of one batch when I was mistakenly confident that it couldn’t possibly be bad since I was feeling just fine on the previous one.
      I am so very very sad, oh yeah and pissed, want my flippin money back as I now have to try yet another batch at my own expense not even covered by my drug plan.

  109. Chantelle says:

    I was diagnosed with hypothyroid in 2009/2010. I was put on synthtoid and felt awful … depressed. .. hot .. always sweating … gained 20lbs in 6 months. I would read forum after forum blog after blog in search of am answer. Than I found stop the thyroid madness. Here u found out about NDT so I went to see my doctor ge couldn’t prescribe UT cause he didn’t know about it. I went to a naturopath here in burnaby bc & paid the fees for free t3 and t4 test. Tham he put me on 30mg of NDT by erfa. After that bottle was gone I brought it to my family doctor and said look it was prescribed to me, and he refilled it. I’ve been with my partner since November 2007. We have been trying for a baby since February 2011. I started erfa NDT I’m September 2014 and i conceived January 31st 2015!!!
    Yay … I love NDT

  110. Knute Kritt says:

    …same experience on Erfa 125’s….went hypo quickly after new Bottle of Erfa and different batch…aching joints, tingling and numbness, actually started fluid filling in ankles …I have no thyroid gland….After SOB I realized I needed to listen to my heart and noticed my mitral valve was not closing fast enough.(usually that is because of schlerosis, plaque built up another thing we hypos have to look forward to if we are not dosed well)..as well myxedema was clsoing in….I took additional thyroxine 100mcg,good multi and some high doses of C’s and B’s and drank a lot of water…..all symptoms resided in 48 hours…. taking synthetic T4 at 50mcg along with 3 Grains of Erfa to stay stable….today feeling like I need to back off the synthetic a little…..something else going on with this medication….Im in nursing now, but have years of medical research and laboratory science…..it’s almost as if there is something wrong with the thyroid hormone itself and not a formulation thing….perhaps some of it is not molecularly sound….this dessicated comes Freezedried….molecular shape changes happen with this and if temp and moisture are not absolutely controlled it will not be able to bind in the receptors needed correctly…..perhaps if they looked carefully at the structure of the hormones using SEM and bought some JAX mice with no thyroid glands and then tested between batches a difference might be seen…..probably only way to test for sure…as for me…I talked my doc into a look at all 4 valves to see what happened suddenly….valve sounds perfectly normal now…..Im pretty pissed this is happening to everyone and very grateful for this site….I dont allow any doc to take charge of my thyroid issues anymore…I will fly overseas if I have to get what I need…..I take all of my own bloodwork because I started in clinical labs as a clin tech 4 and know whatim doing….I actually feel hatred towards medicine for not supporting thyroid reality…F Bomb !…thankyou for allowing me to vent

  111. Nick says:

    I just can’t find a balance between relieving the hypo symptoms and sedating myself to the point of not being able to function. I have also noticed eye problems. My long sight appears to have improved at the cost of my near sight. And when I go outside into sunshine, my eyes water for a couple of minutes. The eyes are ‘gritty’. The tiredness is worse when the weather is warmer.

    I’m still waiting to hear back from my endo regarding my request to change to WP. If he could feel how I feel these days, he would die of shame that he didn’t do something last year when I asked him about this. The whole issue of the ‘new’ ERFA is disgraceful!

    I didn’t do any better on Thyroid S last year. Is Thiroid worth a try? – I am desperate not to lose another year of my life.

    • Nick, sorry you have had to go through this. Yes, there are many folks who report being happy with Thiroid. Also google ThyroGold.

      • Nick says:

        Thanks Janie, if I don’t get a positive response from the endo by the end of May, I Iwill have to try and purchase one of those.

        • Anne says:

          Nick hope you know you don’t have to buy a lot of Thiroyd in one go, you can buy it in small amounts at very low cost to try out, that’s how I tried both Thiroid and Thyroid-S. I have a jar of WP to try now in the hope it’s better than either of them and ERFA, but that was quite expensive as my endo won’t prescribe on NHS. I’d love to try Thyro-gold too, I think it’s important these days to know there are several that suit so this situation doesn’t happen again!

          • Nick says:

            Hi Anne. I have found a tub of 250 x 60 mcg of Thiroid (around 27 pounds). Do they do smaller quantities than that?

            Although we are all different, it would be interesting to hear of your experience with WP. I ‘m sure that all of us on here agree that it is a good idea to have some sort of back up. I must remember to choose a different illness in my next life! LOL

          • Anne says:

            Nick, hope you see this can’t reply direct to you. I buy 75 or 150 at a time, helps when you’re trying to work out what to get, costs between £12 and £20. I’ll definitely let you know about the WP. And yes, a different illness next time, especially as the NHS still don’t agree I’m hypo and Dr S has died, so not a good situation!

          • Nick says:

            Hi Anne, for some reason, the reply option is not available on our last two posts. Do you buy your Thiroid from a country beginning with T or V? 😉

          • Anne says:

            Hi Nick, I buy it from a country beginning with T. 30 1 grains are $12, 60 I grains are $25, never been held up in postage and arrive quickly. There are cheaper options from other places if you want a larger amount but I found this a good way to trial Thiroid and Thyroid-S. Can’t send the link publicly, are you on TUK’s HU forum where they have Private Messaging?

          • Nick says:

            Hi Anne, yes, I am Hypopotamus on HealthUnlocked.

          • Anne says:

            Nick I’ve just sent you a PM there.

          • Angie says:

            Hi Nick and Anne…I’d love to hear more about how you’re doing on Thiroyd a/o Thiroyd-S. I am on N-T and doing just okay..ERFA, before the reformulation, was perfect for me..I also am curious about how to order it…I am in USA. Thanks.

  112. Sheila says:

    I have been reading these posts regularly for a year now ever since I got a bad batch of ERFA in the Spring of 2014. I went hypo, with all the classic symptoms including: fatigue, weight gain, low energy, numbness and tingling in my extremities and the usual brain fog. The one symptom I simply could not ignore is that almost immediately I started having terrible stomach pains: like a huge gas bubble in my solar plexus that was so bad it would either keep me from falling asleep at night or wake me up. Until I read these posts, I was beginning to think I might have stomach cancer.

    At my request, in May 2014 my doc wrote a script for NP Thyroid by Acella, but unfortunately it didn’t help. I continued to get more and more hypo but at least the stomach pain went away. So again at my request he wrote me another script for Armour. The Armour was ok, but compared to old ERFA, Armour just wasn’t close and it was like chewing chaulk.

    In October I sent for Thiroyd from Thailand and that worked better that either NP or Armour, but still not quite there. If I couldn’t have gotten anything else, I could have stayed on Thiroyd in spite of the way it’s spelled. Based on what I read here about more positive experiences with some batches of ERFA, in mid-January, I called Universal Pharmacy in Canada and ordered a refill “IF” they could send me a batch with an expiration date of May 2017 since some people here said that they were feeling o.k. on batches with that expiration date. They were able to do that and I received LF03834A, expiry May 2017 and started taking that in late January and started feeling better almost right away. Since I went back to ERFA, I have had blood work done a couple of times and everything is in the optimized range.

    I just refilled the script again, but because my doc was a little slow in getting my new script faxed to them in a timely way, by the time they got it, I could no longer get the same batch, and what they sent and I received today is LF04140A with an expiry of 7/2017. It looks exactly the same as the previous batch. I took one of the new ones for my afternoon dose today. I take two 60-mg tablets in the morning, and one 60-mg tablet in the afternoon. I will post again in two or three weeks, and update you all on how I am doing on this batch.

    I hate all this switching around trying one brand and then another. I loved how well I felt on the original ERFA, and I am probably close to feeling that good again. My hesitation is probably a reluctance on my part to truly believe or trust ERFA as I once did, but I am truly hopeful that these variations between batches will recede into the mists of history. On a positive note, I have probably read more and learned more about thyroid and all the interrelated conditions that can impact us. I have also started taking more supplements and overall take better care of myself: getting enough sleep, and not pushing (stressing) myself as I was prone to do.

    Last, thanks to all of you who have shared your experiences and the information about the specific batches and expiration dates of either the good or the bad batches. I am sure it has helped many other people besides me.

    Sheila

  113. Paula says:

    I switched to Acella NP thyroid when I became extremely hypothyroid on Erfa this fall. (I was on Armour for years until it was reformulated and it stopped working for me in 2009.) It took a couple months for me to get back to my euthyroid state but this past week I started on the latest batch of NP thyroid and it is not working. All of my hypo symptoms are returning. Is anyone else having a problem with NP thyroid- this batch i just picked up in late April.

    • tcj says:

      Paula,

      I ordered that as well. In June picked up script, and took normal grain dose I have been on for years…not doing well enough in this one either! Still waiting to feel better on NP. Thinking of trying something else.

      I think there is something else going on…and would not say here, but all I know for sure is that I was doing well with NP for almost two years, and then I decided to go back to taking Er-fa in November or December 2013. This is because of a few different reasons, but really, just because of convenience of having home computer to order my wonderful Er-fa again. I was better, and felt it too.

      I was losing a normal amount of weight (gained from who knows what-maybe the NP?) and my energy improve. This was from month of 12 to month of 5 year 2014. Six month! I was from size 12 in December 2013 to a small 6 in May 2014…small change in diet, able to sleep enough, low level of optimized labs etc.,etc…(I am under-treated in my opinion, with other related health issues from this from many years of being under-treated, and with all of this, I was able to function in very stressful job, and very physical too on old Er-fa up to May 2014). I was doing all of this with my doctors supervisions.

      Then I began to be very sick…lost more weight too, and I believe I became hyper thyroid…because I was down to a size 4 in September and this is not normal for me!….and I was not on any drugs, and it just happened….so, by the time November 2014 came around, I am aching, tingling feet, arms, tendonitis feelings, highly emotional, major fatigue, loss of memories, eye twitching, hair starting to fall…constipation too much! (my Dr said “wow you are very constipated” when she checked my pelvic exam) and so many other symptoms…so stayed on the Er-fa and getting worse, and worse…till February my tsh levels said 3 up from .09 in September (when I was size 4) so, my friend said prayers for me, and I looked up some information, and found all these problems here in June this year 2015.

      My family member too was taking this medicine (Er-fa), and feeling the same ways as me. Same feelings for the months of December 2014 to March 2015 (our last order of Er-fa) to now. She is taking another brand now too, and bad symptoms are improving…

      I really loved the Er-fa so, so much! It saved me when Armour did not help me years ago (2009) after they changed, and now this is happening! I think I will keep trying NP for now. And to answer your question finally-sorry!-Paula, no it seems to not be working enough, so I will just give it another few weeks time.

  114. Angie says:

    I want to ask this question again as I don’t see where anybody has answered it. I want to try the Nutri-Meds I ordered last month and am trying to find out what the equivalent dose is to 1 grain…Janie….anybody???

    • tyra says:

      Hi, Angie. I think if you go to the Thyro-Gold website, they have information about whole glandular dosages compared to prescription NDT meds. Thyro Gold and Nutri Meds are similar products so that info should prove informative for you.
      Tyra

  115. Jay says:

    OLD Erfa vs. WP thyroid.

    I was on 4 grains of the OLD Erfa and switched to 4 grains of WP thyroid.

    I seem to be going hypo on 4 grains of WP thyroid. At the same time WP seems to be a good product.

    My thoughts are that OLD Erfa was very potent and that I may need to raise to a higher dose on WP thyroid when compared to OLD Erfa.

    Has anyone else had to raise their dose when they switched from OLD Erfa to WP Thyroid?

    • tyra says:

      Hi, Jay. When the Erfa fiasco hit last year, I switched to a different brand of NDT after trying all the different ones. I settled on the WP and am doing fine on it. I don’t take a big dose…. 90 mg per day.
      Tyra

    • Delann says:

      When they screwed up Erfa, I switched right over to WP thyroid and Im doing great on it. I was on 1 and ½ grains of Erfa and started with that dose on WP. I had to increase the WP to 2 grains. My tests are good being at the very high end of freeT3, in the Middle of free T4. I have no thyroid gland.

  116. Suze says:

    I also had eye problems with the Erfa. Eye pain, blurred vision. Had to change my glasses prescription twice in a month. It wasn’t my eyes. It was the toxins in the pills or the lack of thyroid in the pills making me so hypothyroid my vision went. Plus the lovely Erfa, secretly changed, gave me random arthritis in fingers and toes, pins and needles in hands and feet, anxiety attacks, insomnia, sudden hypo spells and more. I finally switched back to Synthroid and Cytomel. It’s far from perfect but I trust my health will eventually be restored. I will not touch desiccated thyroid again until it is given rave reviews by everyone and proven to be safe and effective again. It was obvious to me that the Erfa was contaminated by something, or had the wrong mix of t3 and t4, since sometime last year when it stopped working right. Before that I was in blooming health on it.

    • Jeff says:

      The fact is that it IS proven that it’s safe and effective.
      How do you know that there is toxins in the pill? Because I’m not intoxicated and I’m on Erfa for years now.
      Just to be clear I’m certainly not saying that you don’t have health problems and I’m really sorry for you. I just think that Thyroid is used as a scape goat for everything…

      • Dianne says:

        I haven’t seen the proof that the newly manufactured ERFA *is* actually safe or effective. ERFA has only told us that the ‘concentration’ of T4 and T3 is the same. Personally, with the reactions I’ve had to the new ERFA, I can’t take ERFA’s word for it that the ingredients haven’t changed in some way – that is, either the ingredient(s) itself, or the source of the ingredient(s). It’s probably safe to say (at least I’m betting), that by changing the actual country in which ERFA is manufactured, that the new facility is probably getting their ingredients from a different source.

  117. Cujet says:

    Facts:

    1) Erfa now makes me extremely tired the instant I take the pill. The tiredness is unlike normal fatigue or sleepiness.
    2) Erfa now makes my eyes slow to react to the “eye test” (following a pen-light left to right)
    3) Erfa related fatigue wears off by 8:00 PM
    4) Erfa now makes me feel like I’ve been drugged
    5) If I don’t take the Erfa, I feel fine. Obviously, I can’t avoid taking my meds, as my levels will plummet. I have no thyroid.

    Some additional important information:

    My dose remains unchanged for 25 years. With stable labs, well in the normal range. I’m neither under or over medicated.
    The reaction I now have to Erfa HAS NOT affected my lab results. My labs remain perfect.
    I’ve done well on my thyroid meds for decades. This problem is new, real and troubling.

    Conclusion: Erfa still contains the proper levels of thyroid hormones.
    Speculation: Erfa is contaminated with some other drug! Either via mistake, chemical reaction or intentional.

    Contact me at N177CJ att gmail dott commm if you want to discuss the matter.

    I’m switching back to Armour.

    • Anne says:

      I agree with you. My reaction was immediate stomach problems and dizziness, cloudiness, a drugged feeling for about 8 hours. This is consistent with my reactions to several prescription meds. I don’t know if the problem is a filler or contamination with some other drug, and if the ERFA company insist that nothing has changed in the formula, then it’s something the new manufacturing facility has added either without their knowledge (do they have such autonomy?) or is a different variety of something that was already in the tablets. I’ve compared ingredients of all makes of NDT and the other drugs I know I can’t take, and the only consistent things that could cause this are the talc or the cornstarch. Both can be bad for some people. This is the only conclusion to be drawn from the fact that some people are still doing fine while other long-term users are not, when taking the same batch. I’ve ditched my prescription for ERFA, been taking Thyroid-S since last summer and have just ordered WP to see what that’s like so that I have a choice of at last two brands in case this happens again. I do think though that some acknowledgement should come from the ERFA company that some of us have been affected by something of which they are not to be aware.

    • Nick says:

      I agree 100% with all your five statements Cujet.

      If I reduce my ERFA dose, I am 100% more awake, the constant hunger pangs go away, the mild headaches are no more, and I actually feel glad to be alive. But of course, the hypo symptoms come back. When I increase the ERFA, I am back to feeling like I have been sedated.

      I’m currently alternating between half and three quarters of my usual dose. I’ve also written to my endo (yet again) explaining all this, and asking for a trial of Westhroid.

    • Angie says:

      Well…my last labs on ERFA showed the batch I was on to be extraordinarily strong…

  118. Vonda says:

    I was one of the unfortunate ones to be affected by the reformulation of Armour, after having good success with it for several years. The new Armour caused a return of hypo symptoms, plus headaches every day. Then I went to ERFA and did well until my new supply in January of 2014, which is when many, I guess, are saying they noticed a problem. The “new” ERFA mostly caused me to be very tired and wasn’t as bad as the new Armour. Then I went to NatureThroid and did not do as well as on the ERFA, but I was getting by until recently. Now it seems the NatureThroid isn’t working for me, and muscle-testing says I am not absorbing it and that ERFA would be better. I’m reading about all the different batches and don’t know whether to risk it or not. I’ve been using Universal Drugstore for my Cortef and got the old ERFA from them. By the way, does anyone know if Armour has reformulated since their 2009 (or thereabouts) reformulation? And has there been any change in the NatureThroid, to anyone’s knowledge? Some of us seem to be ultra-sensitive to these changes, and it’s very frustrating to me. So if anyone knows a good batch number of the ERFA to TRY to get, could you please let me know? Thank you, and good luck to everyone.

    • Nick says:

      I think that you are right Vonda, some of us are ultra-sensitive to something they put in these medications. And I also wonder if some of us get a tolerance to certain medications after a time on them.

      • Anne says:

        I doubt we would all have got a tolerance at the same time Nick, I think the change in manufacturing plant is too much of a co-incidence. Something has either been added, of which fact ERFA aren’t aware, or one of the known fillers is from a different source. I’ve ordered WP to try out.

    • Suze says:

      I searched for a long time for some evidence that the “new Armour” was reformulated back to the “old Armour.” Some say it has been; some say it has not been. There’s nothing official. Most say if they take it differently they can get it to work, such as chewing it or taking more. With reviews like this it doesn’t make me confident about ever trying it.

      About the Erfa, I thought I had one good batch, but the next one (even newer) was bad. I am not playing Russian roulette with my health anymore. If you can’t be assured from batch to batch what you are getting, that is no way to live. My entire life was charting my dose and symptoms. I’ve given it up. I was boiling mad at manufacturers who just don’t care about the patients who are taking these pills. There is no accountability, no communication, no conscience. If you do find something that works, stick to it like glue.

  119. Emily says:

    Hello all,
    I had been on Synthroid for many years because my dear Doctor confirmed without a doubt that it was the one and only medication.. -_-‘ I decided about 6 months ago to find someone else who prescribed me Thyroid from Erfa. I think I’m a brand new person since then. I can do sport, go out… feel alive and not just a zombie.
    No side effects or “bad pills” for me…

  120. JENNIFER ASHER says:

    Hi, I am going to a new dr this Friday and I am so confused on what to get him to prescribe me…armour? erfa? nt? I was going to order from my normal place but an afraid to! I emailed them asking for exp dates and lot #s.

    SO SO LOST

    • Jennifer, they all work. But I think the most popular ones are NP Thyroid, Naturethroid, and WP Thyroid. There have been a few complaints about Armour since the company who makes them was taken over.

      • JENNIFER ASHER says:

        Thank you very much. I got natur-throid and erfa this last time I ordered. I have been dealing with hashi’s since 1996 & went through the armour reformulation ordeal! I knew something was up with the erfa with order before last. I am going to an integrative dr on friday and hoping he can help me get lined out. I also have adrenal disease (LOCAH) and am 44 so my female hormones are crazy! I had an ectopic in 2012 and have fallen apart since 🙁
        Thx again,
        Jenn

  121. Elisabeth says:

    I have been on NP Thyroid, but have had increasing diarrhea problems. It is to the point that I am thinking of switching to Erfa or NatureThyroid. NatureThyroid is unlikely. I can only take it if my Doctors office an convince Insurance to cover it. I am good with the NP Thyroid, excluding the diarrhea and now irritable bowel syndrome. I am wondering if chewing the NP Thyroid will help with the side effects? Is there any advice on what to do in the case of diarrhea side effects? Perhaps I don’t have to change just yet. This has just been a increasing issue, so I am worried it will get worse.

    • I would join patient groups and ask if others have had this problem, and what they did about it. Here’s the main one on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/FTPOThyroid/ And here’s the one on Yahoo: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NaturalThyroidHormones/

      Keep kicking your post up until you get replies.

    • tyra says:

      Hi, Elisabeth. I am so sorry you seem to be having some sort of reaction to the NP Thyroid. We are all so different and reactions are hard to predict. Have you thought about trying WP Thyroid by RLC Labs, the same company that makes Naturethroid? The ‘P’ in the WP stands for pure. The WP only has 3 ingredients besides the Thyroid USP grade.

      It is doubtful that chewing the NP will make much difference if the diarrhea is from the NP but it is worth a try. I am not sure about the ingredients in the NP. If you doctor is agreeable to changing your brand, if I were you, I would try the WP. That is the brand I take sublingually with no problems. Hubby takes the NP Thyroid by Acella with no side effects. Tyra

  122. Sandra says:

    For the record, I had a complete turn around on my old pills, all my hypo symptoms went away, achy lungs and arms, digestive issue, energy, depression, cold, poor sleep, walked for 1 hour the other night with no issue, functioning amazingly well at work, not exhausted completely. I want to say that I live my life the same, don’t change anything like eating habits, exercise, sleep, don’t drink, don’t smoke, go to work, come home, exercise, all home made food, pure clean food, no refined sugar, dairy or gluten and so if Erfa thinks it’ people putting on themselves with their lifestyle, it’s not.
    As of this morning, started the batch that Nick is on, LF30833A, and will report how I do on that one. After reading he was doing well, I called and got almost 500 filled (an not covered under my insurance as it is too close to my prescription being filled to the last one) so I wouldn’t loose that batch if the dispensed them to someone else.
    All I can say is they had better work or else.
    I will keep you posted.

  123. Sandra says:

    Hi Nick,
    I see you are on the batch that I just got filled and am hopeful is a good one, LF30833A. Are you still doing well. I’m hoping you can reply so I can buy more of this batch before they sell it out!!!!

    • Nick says:

      Hi Sandra,

      Sorry for the delay in getting back here. I am no longer sure if ERFA is good or not, and this is why.

      I was awful most of last year, almost comatose on most days, and hardly able to function most of the time. When the weather got much colder at the end of the year, I started to feel better, On reflection, that has been the case for a few years now. I don’t like the cold, but I do seem to feel ‘more alive’ in it. So, having felt better, I reported on here that the ERFA seemed to be working again.

      Alas, as it got warmer, I felt much worse again, ridiculously tired, and wanting to sleep all day. I am annoyed that my endo has not got me some Westhroid to try, despite asking him to do so since last May. But I can’t upset him, as he may well put me back on thyroxine.

      Last week, I was feeling fed up with the situation, and wondering what is the point of even taking ERFA is it isn’t working. So the next day, I reduced my dose from 120 to 60, and by mid morning, I was feeling a lot less tired. The hypo symptoms did appear to be a bit worse but at least I could get on with things. The next day I felt a whole lot better, and while I am nowhere near ‘well’ I have sailed through this last week feeling much better than I have for ages. I am actually down to a dose of 30 at present, and feel OK. I like actually waking up in the mornings at present, as before it was like coming to with the worst ever hangovers.

      All this begs the question – what is going on? Is the ERFA actually ‘bad’ for some of us? Has my Hashimotos got better (I’ve been hypo for 30 years of more)? Has something else made me need less thyroid medication? I have been taking large amounts of sub-lingual B12 for the last four months. I’ve also taken olive leaf extract (anti-viral), and Oregano, with MasticGum which has helped my stomach considerably.

      I’ve got an appointment with the endo coming up, but they did the blood tests before I cut down on the ERFA. I think I will just have to see if this is a strange ‘blip’ or if I continue to do OK with less ERFA. I will reiterate that I did fine on ERFA until the changes the last year.

      My endo has told me that I am the only one of his 15 patients on ERFA who has reported any change over the last year, so it looks as though something changed in ERFA that only affects some of us. I know what the rest of you are thing – why me? I wish that I could find all of us an answer. 🙁

      • Sandra says:

        Hi Nick,
        Thank you so much for answering me and I admit, a ton of things going on in my life that at the end of my work day have no energy nor do I want to even open my email let alone get on the computer to see how everyone is doing here.
        I have endured a lot of additional work stress with the potential job loss etc and for the most part have been somewhat ok, perhaps have not been stress dosing my cortef enough but once things settle down hopefully soon then I can honestly assess how I’m doing.
        I am wondering though if I too need to lower my dose of Erfa as it is now getting warmer and was feeling quite warm and jittery the past two days and may give that a try tomorrow. I never had to do that in the past though. Perhaps this batch that you and I are on IS a lot stronger than the other batches?

      • Angie says:

        NIck…I don’t think it’s you…see my post above…

  124. Sandra says:

    Here we go again, spent much of 2014 suffering on terrible batches, started a new batch early this year and had a substantial turn around for the entire time I was on it, for months, was even walking 1 hour a day and no fatigue, my achy lungs weird symptom and achy forearm symptom went away. Started a new batch a week ago and those symptoms have returned and walking a 30 minutes is the last thing I feel like doing, mild depression has set in. This just can’t be happening, I am already challenged severely at work, desperately need to function at my best or else fear losing my job and I feel myself sliding down the proverbial slippery slope back to hell.
    Dear God, how can they continue to do this to us?
    Janie, how is it that you have not been affected at all by these batches? I’m curious.
    Sadly, I asked the pharmacy to fill a small amount for me to try and then before waiting at least a week, called and said, fill 500 pills for me. Then I started to go downhill, called to ask that since I had not picked them up, could I get them to fill another batch instead and they said no, so now I have to pay for not only a second dispensing fee but also for 500 of garbage pills and if I want to try another batch, then a 3rd dispensing fee along with whatever pills I try next.
    This is criminal!

    • Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.

    • Sandra, I got a year’s worth at a time, still had a lot of the previous years, and my last year’s worth was apparently from a lot right before the bad ones.

    • Anne says:

      Sandra this is so depressing to read, I think many of us had hoped it was a glitch for just a while last year. Do you know the batch number and expiry date of these latest tablets? Also have you reported it to ERFA and did you get any sort of answer from them?

      • Sandra says:

        Hi Anne,
        Yes I’m sorry that this seems to be the truth.
        I did write the batch # down but in my proverbial funk this past week, misplaced it but if I find it somewhere, will surely report it here. I was almost in tears, just feeling overwhelmed, so unwell by all I had to get done and was not getting done before back to work tomorrow when I found 3 days worth of the old pills, immediately took them for my afternoon dose, my walk was still not the best but then guess what as the afternoon moved on, I managed to get some laundry done, kitchen cleaned up, vacuum my porch, banking, resume stuff I needed to do, got a chicken in the oven for dinner etc. Once again, what seemed like the impossible to accomplish this weekend, became effortless!
        Then for the first time this week since starting that batch, I laughed out loud, smiled, felt alive and not like a pathetic shell of a human being.
        So tell me, is it all in my head OR WHAT?! I think not. I mean it was a serious state I was in mentally as well and I have not been there since last year.
        No I have not reported it to Erfa, do you think it will do anything at all? Janie?
        Janie, you are so very very lucky to have the opportunity to buy that much at once and am so happy for you that you have not been affected. I am only aloud to have 3 months worth as my doctor wrote “take as directed” so my insurance company wouldn’t limit me to a month at a time.
        The one I just got filled in hopes that it is good is 40 days worth. If it works then I will be calling immediately in hopes that they have not dispensed the rest of that batch to anyone else, if not then I’m back to the drawing board with trying another batch.
        I will let you know how I make out, so the batch that I am going to try in 3 days when the good pills run out,
        is LF03833A. If anyone is doing well on them, please let me know.

        • Anne says:

          Sandra I think all batches which seem to be ‘off’ should be reported to the medical director at ERFA. It doesn’t matter too much whether they investigate (I doubt they will) but I do think that all complaints would have to be logged somewhere and it’s important that ERFA know there is still something wrong. It can’t be a reformulation because that would affect all batches, it’s something else going on either at the quality control stage or in the transportation or storage. I did find a report that the Belgian manufacturing facility was actually part of the ERFA company and was sold off, and that’s why production had to be moved to Spain. If this means it’s been outsourced to some other company then ERFA may not have the same control over some aspects of it. I also found a comment on Mary Shomon’s forum (About.com) from someone not doing well on ERFA that she’d contacted them and the reply said there had been a manufacturing problem last year but it had now been sorted out. I don’t think anyone here got a reply like that, I think most were told there was no problem.
          Please let us know how you do on the latest batch and I hope they’re ok!

          • Sandra says:

            Hi Anne,
            You are right, I will report it, just don’t have the batch number for that one. Wow it is unbelievable how they can get away with lying to us. I know that that information rings true with what my pharmacist said they told her what happened when she inquired about why it was on back order last year.

          • Sandra says:

            Hi Anne,
            I seem to be doing ok on this batch, same one as Nick is on, hard to right now as I am dealing with a lot of stress but I do not have depression or the other hypo symptoms I had that week on the batch I did not have the number for. If something changes, will let you guys know.

  125. Angie says:

    Universal Drugstore was kind enough to provide me with a lot # from which my next ‘script of ERFA would be filled, if I chose to order. The lot # is LF04245A. Anyone have experience, good or bad, with this batch? Also waiting on Canada Drug to provide. I have to plug CD a little. They have been the most responsive on this whole issue and they were willing to refund me for the last lot I had had a negative experience with. They’ve earned my business IF I can get a good lot # from them.

    • Heather says:

      I want to know if the old good ERFA is back to normal. Anyone know?

    • Marge says:

      I am new here… just found you all today and posted a reply to a February post regarding LF04245A, Exp. Aug. 2017… VERY bad experience.
      Marge

      • Angie says:

        I ended up with a different batch from the LF04245A. Lot LF03963A. THIS time I had labs drawn on 1 and 3/4 grains which is my usual warm weather dose. (My cold weather dose is 2 grains). Was on this batch for 4 days and my labs were as follows..note that I post my usual labs on this dose right beside. So…this batch was very, very strong on T3 and deficient in T4…They definitely have a problem.

        FT3 – 5.1 (usually around 3.7)
        FT4 – 0.7 (usually around .8 or .9)
        TT3 – 249! (usually around 130-150)
        Rt3 – 18.2 (had gotten down to about 10)..

  126. Angie says:

    I am thinking of trying the Nutri-Meds porcine product. Nutri-Meds’ website claims to have 130 mg of raw extract per capsule or tablet. STTM site says that this formula is weaker than pharmaceutical brands. I take about 1 and 3/4 grains. What would be the equivalent dose (understand that this may be approximate).

    • Dianne says:

      I am taking Nutri-Meds now. Last week I ran out of my 60 mg good ERFA (exp date 01/15), so had no other choice but to switch entirely to NM. I had been taking one 60 mg tab of ERFA in the am, one 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the afternoon, and then one more 130 mg Nutri-Meds capsule in the evening. I was doing this as an experiment, really, because I’m not sure what is the equivalent dose of NM to ERFA. Before the ERFA Fiasco, I was on a dose of about 120 – 135 mgs of ERFA, for reference.

      I’m now awaiting my recent blood test results, but I have a feeling I was getting hyper. But at the same time I had some hypo symptoms, too. What I did when I ran out of the 60 mg ERFA tabs was start taking just 2-130 mg caps of Nutri-Meds a day. I’ll know more once I get my test results whether I should stay at just two caps a day, or if I need more or less. So, it’s been a guessing-game.

      • Dianne says:

        OK, my reply was kind of confusing… brain fog. To clarify – I had blood work done at the dose of 60mgERFA and 2-130 caps NM a day. I was taking that for quite a few months. So that is what my blood results will be based on. After my blood test last week, I ran out of the ERFA, so dropped my dosage to 2-130 caps of NM a day because I was feeling a little hyper. So, I’ll know if I should adjust this recent dose change once I get my blood results back.

        • Angie says:

          Hi Diane. Thanks for both your replies. I currently take about 1 and 3/4 grains daily of ERFA or Nature-throid. I split my dose thusly: 45 mg rising, 30 mg around noon, 30 mg around 7PM. This works really, really well for me. Keep us posted. I ordered capsules from NM. May be hard to split, but I like the idea of nothing else being in them except for the extract.

          • Dianne says:

            Hi Angie, That’s the reason I decided on trying Nutri-Meds, because of the pureness. The capsules actually aren’t hard to split, if you don’t mind emptying them and mixing with water. I’ve been doing this with all my supplements for years anyway because I have an allergic reaction to cellulose. I’m able to swallow the Nutri-Meds capsules when I take the full dose, though, because the capsule is pure bovine gelatin with nothing else added.

            You may not get exact doses with splitting them, but pretty close, I think. Let’s just hope Nutri-Meds is strong enough to replace our beloved old ERFA.

          • Dianne and everyone, also explore ThyroGold. It’s from grass fed cows in New Zealand, and stronger than NutriMeds. Good patient feedback about it.

    • Dianne says:

      Hi Janie, I have tried Thyro-Gold, but I have a reaction to one or both of the other ingredients in it – maybe the coleus, or the other ingredient (can’t remember what it is). It’s a shame, because I would have liked to take Thyro-Gold since I’ve heard good things about it.

      I emailed the owner(s) of Thyro-Gold a few months ago, and asked them if they would consider making a pure version also with only the thyroid hormone minus the two added ingredients, but I haven’t heard back from them. So, I went with the Nutri-Meds.

  127. Tammy says:

    Can you tell me if Armour Thyroid from Forest Pharmaceuticals is now working as long as we chew them up?
    I have been on Erfa since 2009 and they worked perfectly until this last year when they did their reformulation!!!!!

  128. Heather says:

    I was on ERFA over a year ago. It worked just “ok” for a time but a few months later end of 2013 I went down hill FAST. I could barely walk. Then I switch to Nature Thyroid and I was back to normal and felt great. However, I gained 15 pounds in 2 weeks on Nature Thyroid. I didn’t gain weight on ERFA however I don’t think it was working very well. Has anyone experienced weight gain on ERFA or Nature Thyroid? Also, now that ERFA seems to be working better, I’m thinking of trying it again just to get the weight off that I gained from Nature Thyroid. I take 65mg on Nature Thyroid so would I take 60 mg for ERFA if I make the switch?

  129. Anna says:

    Is there general consensus that Nature-Throid is working better than Armour? I looked at the list of ingredients on the STTM, and it seems awfully long, including calcium which is known to bind thyroid hormone…but Thyroid-S also contains a lot of fillers and binders, and it is generally considered a good product, so the number of ingredients does not necessarily mean the product is bad (or so I try to tell myself…).

    I don’t know if I got this wrong somehow, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that when NT was reformulated, methylcellulose (which is even more difficult to digest than microcrystalline cellulose) was replaced by MCC, but not that the amount of cellulose necessarily increased as a result…while the reformulation of Armour basically meant reversing the proportions between cellulose and sucrose, increasing the former and decreasing the latter…?

  130. Nick says:

    My most recent batch – LF03883A/05/17 seems to be working better.

    • Angie says:

      Nick, if you don’t mind, where were you able to obtain that batch? Thanks!

      • Nick says:

        Hi Angie, I get mine through Lloyds Pharmacy.

        • Angie says:

          Thanks, NIck! That’s one I don’t have from the STTM site. Are you pretty happy with their Customer Service, etc.?

          • Nick says:

            I get my ERFA prescribed by by (NHS) endo. I phone his secretary when I need some more, she gets the prescription from him, and then drops it in to the Lloyds pharmacy at the hospital. They make out the prescription, and send it via hospital transport, to the cottage hospital where I live. They phone me when it arrives, and I walk round to collect it.

            So yes, I am happy with the whole process.

          • Angie says:

            Thanks, Nick. I tried Lloyds but they don’t ship to the US. Glad they are working well for you, though.

    • Anne says:

      Thanks for this info Nick, I guess your pharmacy stocks up from Pharmarama or Idis. I have a private prescription (NHS still won’t agree I’m hypo) and Pharmarama have batch LF04140 60mg expiry July 17, not sure whether to buy them or not as can’t find anyone else using that batch, although that’s probably good because it means no-one is complaining about it!

    • Sandra says:

      Nick, I see you are on the batch that I have just got filled and am so hopeful that they are good. Are you still doing well?
      See my comment below

  131. Angie says:

    Also the Health Canada website has ERFA being inspected on 310-2014 with a Type 3 risk, but DEL issued. DEL is license to manufacture, if I understand correctly.

  132. Angie says:

    Dear Janie…obtained the following from ERFA’s website regarding microbial contamination of another of their products. Maybe no relation to the problems some of us have been experiencing at all, but was related to a “manufacturing issue” and took place late August 2014. Hmmmmm…..http://3023581417d2979ec5cce126.alexandrevanierw.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/AMSA-NtH-ERFA-EN.pdf

  133. Angie says:

    Does anyone know of another Canadian pharmacy from which to obtain ERFA besides Canada Drug or The Canadian Pharmacy? While Canada Drug has been polite and helpful (can most definitely NOT say the same for Canada Drug), I got a lousy batch in November (14G0111) and would like to try one ot the batches with the LF prefix…

    • tyra says:

      Angie… I ordered my Erfa from Universal Drug for years and years until the Erfa fiasco. They require a script. I never received my Erfa in
      an original mfg’s bottle… always in a plain brown prescription bottle with a universal drug generated label even tho I ordered 300 quantity at a
      time. They are very personable and helpful if you call them. You might telephone and see what the batch numbers and expiry dates are for
      whatever Erfa they are currently shipping out. Whether they will tell you or not is a different story. lol

      I believe they still sell Armour if you think that might help you. I don’t know if you have to have
      a script that specifies a brand name or not. I always had my doctor write my script for natural desiccated thyroid in grains instead of milligrams
      … no brand name.

  134. Sara MdC says:

    Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info – much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. I’m pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?

    I’ve been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. I’ve been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving – to a point – but I’ve crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. I’m just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, I’ll feel better. But it’s strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extent…I’m still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought I’d change. I’m battling daily with myself trying to believe that I’m doing the right thing switching to ERFA…and I’m hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! I’m also taking Cortef although it’s not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know you’ve got a prescription sorted. I’m hoping my doc will sort one out but she’s sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first – sigh …we’ve all been there! Anyhow…I mention the above in case you’ve any info that may help from your own experience – and if you can let me know about the batch number….great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X

  135. Sara MdC says:

    Thank you Janie. I’ll take a look at the forums and see if I can find someone to help. I think I’m so low as I stayed on 1 grain for weeks and weeks! Didnt realise. So everything has crashed down. I feel as bad now as I ever did but am just hoping I havent had a bad batch and that I’m simply just waiting for my body to catch up. I’m on 3 grains now but the dose won’t kick in properly for another 3 weeks at least I guess. In the meantime I’ll take the Cortef I need and find a specialist to help.
    I’ve just ordered your book and the updated version too…so I’ll get to the bottom of it I’m sure. It’s been over 20 years…so a bit more patience should be OK…although it’s incredibly depressing feeling like I’m back at square 1!! Scrub that…I’m just at the start of the road to a proper recovery 🙂 Thanks Janie. Cheers, Sara X

    • Anne says:

      Hi Sara, I’m in UK too, but haven’t found anyone to really help recently although I now see a private doctor in London and an NHS endo in Kent. I was originally diagnosed by Dr Skinner and also saw Dr Peatfield. He seems to know more than most doctors but ThyroidUK do have a list of helpful endos and doctors, NHS and private and also a forum through Health Unlocked. You mention the expiry date of your ERFA above, and give the DIN number, but do you also have the lot/batch number, which will be something like LF…..A with 5 numbers in the middle and could you also tell me where you got them? Pharmararma (importers) finally have some in stock with an expiry of 2017 which I am hoping will be definitely ok as I got a private prescription from a doctor London recently.

      • Sara MdC says:

        Suddenly realised I put this in the main section rather than replying to you personally, Anne…so I’m reposting 🙂

        Hi Anne, thanks loads for posting and for the info much appreciated. The lot number is LF03139B. Im pretty sure I got them from Inhouse Pharmacy (.vu) They are still posting out batches expiring Oct 16. What do you reckon?? Am I safe?

        Ive been taking them since December and I was on 1 grain for weeks and weeks before finding out I should have been on a much higher dose! It was too late then. I crashed seriously low and couldnt hold myself up. I just had to lay in bed and try and control my breathing until I could sleep. I went onto 2 grains and then, after talking to Barry Peatfield, I went onto 3 grains, 3 weeks later. Ive been on 3 for 12 days (and the 2 grain dose is at just over 4 weeks). I thought I was improving to a point but Ive crashed big time again although not quite as low as before. Im just hoping and praying that in 4 or 5 weeks or so, when the 3 grains kick in properly, Ill feel better. But its strange that now the 2 grains should have kicked in to some extentIm still crashing. Still, I guess it takes a while to get the dose right. I was on 100mcg of Levo for years but I didnt feel well enough, so I thought Id change. Im battling daily with myself trying to believe that Im doing the right thing switching to ERFAand Im hoping and praying that the batch is OK!! Im also taking Cortef although its not making lots of difference at the moment! Good to know youve got a prescription sorted. Im hoping my doc will sort one out but shes sending me to the local NHS endo specialist for tests first sigh weve all been there! AnyhowI mention the above in case youve any info that may help from your own experience and if you can let me know about the batch number.great! Thanks again Anne 🙂 X

        Reply

        • Anne says:

          Hi Sara, I did a search for that batch number and found two mentions of it, one is in a comparison photo which Janie put up here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/erfa-in-new-bottle-but-old-pill/ in example 4, to show the old and the new tablets (are your tablets speckled like those?), the other is on the Thyroid UK Health Unlocked forum where someone asks if they’re ok, no-one else had that batch and eventually she switched to NatureThroid and preferred it – but to find that you have to go through her old posts and probably be a member. So I’m afraid that I’m not sure whether they’ve ok or not. If you search for just the batch number you’ll come up with both those mentions plus this thread where you mention it.
          I got my last lot in November 2013 from the same pharmacy as you and have been waiting ever since for them to get in some new batches. When I emailed them they admitted a lot of people had complained about them. Mine were a different batch from yours though, but what I find confusing is that people can have the same batch and some be ok and others not. I think it’s possibly a storage problem somewhere along the line.
          When I first took NDT it was after taking both levo (125mcg) and T3 (40mcg) and I just felt fine during the switch over. I don’t think you should feel worse, specially as you’re taking Cortef. You said that you started on ERFA via an alternative doctor who “said my energy responded much better to ERFA” Do you mean that he did muscle testing to find that out, or used a pendulum or something like that? If so did he also try it with other forms of NDT at the same time, and was it that batch you now have that he used to test? Sorry for all the questions but this interests me as someone used energy to check if her ERFA would be ok for me and gave it to me as a back-up until I could get something else.
          Have you joined any of the groups which Janie linked to? I think you may get a lot of help in some of them and I also think that if you go to an NHS endo feeling awful on NDT he’ll most likely try to switch you back to synthetics.

        • tyra says:

          Hi, Sara. I see you mentioned that you got your Erfa from Inhouse? I also purchase WP by RLC Labs from them.
          It seems with inhouse, as long as you have sent them a legit prescription on file, they will fill with any natural thyroid brand name you wish. Have you thought about trying another NDT instead of the Erfa?

          I take WP. My hubby takes Armour. I had previously sent my rx to Inhouse for my WP. A few months later, I
          ordered the Armour for my hubby. The order went thru with no problem. I waited for them to tell me I needed
          a prescription for the Armour (I had the rx all copied in my ‘puter, ready to forward to them) and when I didn’t hear from them, I called and asked if I should send them the rx. They said if I wanted to I could but it wasn’t necessary, that the order had already shipped. hmmm… so.. apparently as long as they have a script on file, they aren’t too particular what brand name you order or how often. This was about a year ago. I assume this policy is still in place.

  136. Sara MdC says:

    Firstly thank you so much for all the information Janie. Sincerely appreciated. I hope you can help. I’m not sure if I’m on the right meds/supps or not! I was on Levothyroxine 100mcg for a few years and then saw Dr Barry Peatfield in the UK (thyroid and adrenal specialist) as I simply wasnt getting better..or I should say I’d improved but wasnt nearly there. He addressed my adrenals and I took NAX (Nutri Adrenal Extra) and eventually Cortef (Hydrocortisone) which were life savers. Whilst I was able to lead a reasonably normal life, I’ve never felt great, so in December 14 I was told to switch to ERFA but an alternative specialist. He said my energy responded much better to ERFA. He told me the equivalent dose was 60mg (1 grain) What he didnt tell me was that that was a starting dose! So for a while my pain over my thyroid decreased and my heart rate became stable but then I had the most almighty crash!! I couldnt afford the follow up appt to the specialist and as he didnt tell me I’d prob need to raise my dose I was unaware. That’s when I started doing lots of research again and came across your site (thank you again) I upped my dose to 2 grains, figuring that I’d been on 100mcg of Levo before…I’d up the dose quicker than some. 4 weeks on (today) I’ve improved somewhat but not fully (some days I’m ok, ish, and others like today I’m on the floor). Dr Peatfield has asked me to increase my dose again by 30-60mg of ERFA and I did that last Sunday so I’m waiting to find out how things will pan out. I chose to up it by another grain as this should be pretty comparable to my previous Levo T4 100mcg dose, I’m hoping this will be OK. (gulp!) I’m posting on here because I’m concerned I may be doing the wrong thing. Is ERFA right for me? Is it the right dose? Am I feeling bad cos I’ve had a bad batch? (today I’m aching all over, feeling yuck with no energy) and I don’t know why. I’ve never had a feeling of being totally cured, I don’t know if I’m on the right adrenal support and I have had so much advice from different people, I’m not sure who to listen to now! I’m in the UK and would so love a doctor who would hold my hand through all this. I have a specialist appt at the end of April with an NHS endocrine guy, but I don’t hold out much hope because, as you quite rightly point out, we have to teach them. I’ve been reading about Vitamin D and the iron stuff and suddenly there’s more info. Where on earth do I go to find the right person to work with in the UK? (South?) I’m not sure if Dr Peatfield has all the answers but I can go back to him…but what with the expense of all the meds and supps I’m on, it’s about finding the budget. Anyhow..sorry for waffling on, but if you have any advice on who to see, what to do, whether my dose is OK etc etc…great! I’ve started taking 1 grain 3 times a day (spacing them out) but I’m going to try 2 grains a.m. and 1 in the pm. as that’s been suggested. I’m also on 2 x NAX and 10 to 15mg of Cortef. As this is a steroid, this also brings concerns…but it clearly helps! Thanks for reading. Cheers Sara X

    • Sara MdC says:

      p.s. worth noting my product number is DIN 00023957 60mg with the light green stripe on the bottle and the expiry date is 10/2016 xx

    • Hi Sara! With all that I do, I’m unable to get into much feedback like this. But I can say I’m optimal on 3 1/2 grains, just for comparison, though folks are different. And we’ve found that 10-15 mg Cortef is inadequate if saliva revealed seriously low cortisol recently, but perhaps you are weaning. Here’s where you can join patient groups, under #2 here: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others and get great feedback!

  137. Sandra M. says:

    Janie Bowthorpe:
    Just curious if you’re still on Erfa? What brand and dosage are you currently on? How are you feeling? Thanks!

  138. Ellen says:

    Hi Tyra and Janie, Thank you both for the information. I will take my temperature to get further information. I am not experiencing the symptoms I had long ago when I was first diagnosed: cold hands and feet, fatigue, hair loss, etc. Only heart palpitations and missed beats and occasionally a bit hyper feeling. It is amazing, to me, how quickly the heart palpitations ceased when I switched back to Erfa. The Acella pills are so small, I wouldn’t know how to decrease the amount. I will see my doctor in April and get new labs and ask for a cortisol test.

    • Ellen, just because those symptoms are different than they used to be doesn’t mean they are less significant. They are clear symptoms that you are either underdosed, or they are revealing an adrenal and/or iron problems. And the size of the pills have nothing to do with it. It’s the mg amount that does. It’s not about decreasing. It’s about finding out what your current amount is “revealing”. The cortisol test you want is not a blood test, by the way, which uniformed doctors tend to order. You need to do saliva testing. You also need to order all four iron labs. All explained here: http://www.stopthethroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me

    • Shanna says:

      Hello Ellen, I too was taking Erfa for years and switched to Acella NP and immediately had heart palpitations, dizziness and hair shedding. The symptoms stopped immediately after I skipped a dose. My ferritin was 40 when I took the first pill…I will never take Acella NP again.

  139. Ellen says:

    I took Erfa after the Armour reformulation and did very well using half of the 125 mg tablet per day which is 36.5 mcg T4 and 8.5 mcg T3, The Erfa 60 mg, 35 mcg T4 and 8 mcg T3, was not strong enough. When reports of sickness were reported with Erfa last fall, I changed to Acella thyroid 60 mg per day. I felt fine for the first month and then began having palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling. I couldn’t figure out what was causing these symptoms but then the other day, I decided to skip a dose of Acella and I was able to sleep through the night without palpitations and the next day I took an old Erfa that I had and still feel fine. Could the Acella have inconsistent amounts of thyroid? Wondering if I should try another brand of NDT? Since the US brands are all 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 they may all cause palpitations or would there be a difference in how they are absorbed? I did well on 60 mg of Armour for 10 plus years before it was changed. Would appreciate any input. Thanks.

    • Ellen, 60 mg is simply a starting dose from which we have to raise from…and again…and again. So that’s probably why you had those issues on just 60 mg. Read http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101

      • Ellen says:

        Janie, thanks for the reply. I read the link you provided but am still confused.
        Initially, my doctor started me on a very low dose and we worked up to 60mg Armour where I stayed for many, many years.
        I did have a lot of energy at times on it. When I took Erfa, I felt the best on their formula of a little less T3 and T4. Now with a little higher
        amounts of T3, T4, it seems to be a tad too much. How would I decrease to get the same effect?

        • Hi Ellen. Doctors don’t understand yet how to use NDT. In most cases, you don’t start as low as it sounds you were started. We start at 60 mg aka one grain, and build up from there. It’s all explained in the link I gave you. Click on it and you’ll get a lot of good info based on years of wisdom. 🙂

        • tyra says:

          Hi, Ellen. This is not to contradict anything that Janie has told you. She is the pro as far as I am concerned but….
          My story is so similar to yours. I take 60mg/90mg, alternating days. I have been on NDT for over twenty years and went to Erfa from Armour when they changed the formulation some years back and did just fine on it. I now take WP but have tried the NP Acella and I liked it. I didn’t take it as long as you… just tried it out for a few weeks. This was when I was changing from the messed up Erfa to another brand of NDT… trying them all.

          I read and researched a lot about the Acella and the only complaints I ever heard/read about were from a few folks who had some hyper symptoms on NP. I am just guessing here but I think the NP is better absorbed than some other NDTs out there? So maybe a lower dose of NP would be more appropriate for some?

          I think there is a small sub-set group of NDT users like you and I who don’t require a lot of NDT to be stable. I did suffer from cold intolerance all those years but I had always had that problem since I was
          a child. I always felt I might like to bump up my NDT dosage but every time I tried it, I would get heart palps. A few years ago, I started supplementing with Lugols/Iodoral iodine and after about a year and slowly working up to 12.5 mgs of iodine, the cold intolerance/ cold nose/feet resolved itself and no more heart palps either. And my tsh (which I know isn’t a particularly good indicator) dropped down to 1./-.1 all by itself with no adjustment made in my NDT dosage.

          I was originally put on Synthroid before my doc let me try the Armour…. this was all back in the early
          nineties. That year on Synthroid I call my year in hell….lol. I experienced profound exhaustion, horrible short-memory problems, depression (I am never depressed) and I ached from head to toe, especially in my leg bones. So.. I know what hypo symptoms feel like. When I went on Armour all those years ago, it was like the sun came out. This just to share that I know what hypo symptoms feel like and after all that misery, a little cold intolerance was no big deal.

          You might want to try the WP by RLC Labs and see if it suits you better than the NP by Acella. Or… try cutting back your NP to say… 45mg/60mg every other day or even 45 mg per day. Experiment and see how you do. We are all so different and people seem to do better on one brand of NDT over another it seems. It is a shame that docs aren’t more open to letting us try different brands in order to find the best match for us.

          • Yes, you can basically put everyone in these percentage categories on a continuum, we’ve noticed. i.e. the majority on the continuum end up being optimal in the 2 grain to 3 grain area. I am in that majority at the higher end of it at 3 1/2 grains, and my husband is in the lower end of that majority at 2 grains, but we’re going to test to see if he needs a tad more. A smaller percentage, but still a fair size group, are higher than the 2-3 grain area, such as 4 grains and higher. A smaller percentage are optimal at less than 2 grains. One of the doctors who contributed a chapter in the STTM II book is the latter.

            So when trying to find your optimal dose, “optimal” seems to equal several things: 1) having a free T3 in the upper quarter of the range–that is important and we’ve seen it repeatedly the past decade when someone is truly optimal 2) the removal of nearly all symptoms clearly related to being hypo for “you” 3) having a mid-afternoon temp close to 98.6F/37C (not done at ovulation or after) 4) having a before-getting-out-of-bed morning temp of 97.8F to 98.2F (using a mercury thermometer in mouth for at least 5 minutes, and not done at ovulation or after) 5) having a good heartrate and blood pressure.

            But if on any of the lower doses, one has what Ellen described (palpitations and missed beats and sometimes a bit hyper feeling), that is definitely not optimal and has nothing to do with “NP Thyroid making some hyper”. It either means one isn’t on enough (because still being hypo can result in excess adrenaline–your body’s way of being alarmed by still being hypo), or it can mean you have revealed that you have either low cortisol or low iron. See http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me The latter is very informative and important.

            Hope that helps. Reported patient experiences rock!

  140. Anne says:

    I’d be interested to know if anyone has batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but am not going to risk buying them without knowing they are ok. Thanks!

    • Angie says:

      Hi Anne: I don’t have this batch, but am considering ordering a batch with similar lot # LF 04245A..Let us know how you do. It appears as if the “LF” batches, at least the later ones, are okay. At least from the comments I’ve seen recently. Y’all (yes, I am from the South), please correct me if I am wrong.

  141. Sam says:

    Hi,
    Anyone tried LF03506A, exp. 02/2017? Is it working, how are you feeling?

    • Frieda Dekeyzer says:

      Ik heb LF03506A Exp 02/2017
      Ik heb ritmestoornissen ben heel erg moe en heb vreselijke spierpijnen
      Geen arts die wat vindt nu weet ik het na dit opzoekwerk !!!!! Die erfa deugt niet

      (The above is her Erfa batch and expiration, and the rest seems to translate to: “I’m very tired and arrhythmias have terrible muscle pains No doctor likes what I now know after this research work !!!!! That is no good ERFA.”)

  142. Suze says:

    This continues to be a very serious issue and I keep looking to see if there has been any resolution. Gosh – I didn’t even know about this issue with BAD BATCHES of Erfa until late last year when I began feeling ill, came to this site to find some answers, and was hit with a firestorm of reports of bad batches.

    Having read through all the comments in the May and June 2014 blogs, I see it started in late 2013. Some of us had pill supplies from the good batches which lasted us well into 2014; I was one of those.

    I just spent some hours reading all the comments. I started a chart of the lot numbers that were bad, and the dates, and symptoms. But I got to over 70 and can’t continue – too exhausting. I now see that Janie asked in Aug 2014 if someone would do such a chart. I will just summarize my main findings: the trouble with Erfa started before they moved from Belgium to Spain. Some new bad pills were put in old bottles. Most troubles started around January 2014, proving that batches made in 2013 were already suspect. But most of the bad batches were exp. 2016. People have speculated that it could be: heavy metal, gluten or other contaminants; contaminated raw thyroid gland; feeding the pigs GMO grain; and other possibilities.

    People have asked for/said they would get the old and new batches of pills tested by an independent lab, as Erfa has never tested for anything but t3/t4/filler composition, apparently; but I can’t find any results yet. I myself was wanting to do that, as I was so enraged at my ups and downs with the pills. Different results from pills in the same prescription bottle.

    The July 2017 batch of 30s was good but the Aug 2017 was bad! Worrying every day whether the pill would throw me into some kind of distress, or leave me feeling well and functional. If I rest enough and get the strength I’ll finish the chart and post it. I exclude anyone who wasn’t ALREADY doing well on Erfa. The problem is it’s a very long document even summarizing the symptoms. I could do the chart without the symptoms to save space. I’ve been trying to be logical and use the 125 mg batch exp. 8/15 that I last got which seems OK. Mind you I am still swinging hypo and hyper from being on crazy batches for at least half a year, and it takes time to rebuild the health. But my good batch will not last forever and it is surely the last of the old formulation. I have to prepare to ask my dr. to order Armour or Naturethroid from the states and hope he will do it and hope it works. So, has anyone actually submitted the bad pills to a lab to look for contaminants?

    • Anne says:

      Suze well done for trying to make up a chart of all this. I tried to last year and gave up, it was too confusing especially when I found some people were saying a certain batch was bad when others said the same batch was fine.

      I wondered about having an old tablet and a new one analysed (I have both) and enlisted the help of a family member who is a pharmacist, but could not find anyone willing to do it. It seemed the only way for it to be done at minimal cost would be through a university research lab. If you find someone able to do this I would happily send you a couple of my old tablets and some of the bad batch, all 125mgs.

      My bad batch was bought in November 2013 and I had an allergic type reaction it, with almost immediate stomach problems and then dizziness, faintness and palpitations, which took hours to get better, so to me it was nothing to do with the amount of T3 or T4 etc in the tablets, it was definitely something else. But that batch, made in the old factory, was in a bottle with one of the new labels. Because of the awful reaction I only took the tablets for 3 days and Dr Knafo, although he kept in contact with me, would not take my concerns seriously because he wanted me to have blood tests showing a difference since starting them. He also seemed to think the problem was only happening among readers of STTM here and on Facebook, despite my having directed him to other forums where the problems were being discussed. Unfortunately this belief also seems to have permeated other places now.

      I switched to Thyroid-S, my labs are higher than ever before but I feel don’t feel as well as I did and know I must switch to something else again. I am in the UK and have a private prescription for ERFA, but can’t afford to lose any more money on a bad batch and also have the ongoing worry of when the next bad batches will appear. I did very well on ERFA for several years and I think Dr Knafo’s attitude was an awful abandonment, on the part of the whole ERFA company, of our concerns but far more of our health and long-term well-being. I wish we could do something to ensure they, and their manufacturers, take issues of safety more seriously in future.

      • Caroll says:

        I really like this website for what it brings to the thyroid community. But please stop this non sense of conspiracy theory.
        It never occurred to you that if Erfa didnt confess its because they never lied???
        You have a strange way to thank the company that helped you for years Im sorry but people change. If Erfa doesnt work for you anymore fare enough! Change your medication and stop complaining about a contamination that doesnt exist!!
        This medication is perfect for me (its been 5 years!) and Im certainly not alone.
        Please stop criticize without end about a good product that doesnt work anymore for you but still is a miracle for a big majority of patients.

        • Anne says:

          Where is the conspiracy theory? My last batch of 500 ERFA thyroid tablets made me too sick and dizzy to function within half an hour of taking them. I went back to an old batch which were fine. I tried the new ones once more and once again I was too sick and dizzy to function, the ild batch were still fine for me. Someone mentioned a similar problem on the Thyroid UK forum, I came here and also went to Mary Shomons blog and found others with the same batch as mine having identical symptoms. This batch was made in the old factory in Belgium not the new one, so I knew whatever the problem was, it was different from others here. I have suggested several times that it may be to do with transportation or storage en route and not to do with different fillers.

          I live in England and do not have the luxury of doctors who happily prescribe NDT. I have to persuade them that it works and I also have to pay for it in full because it is only allowed on private prescription in my area. I was able to get a year’s supply which is too expensive for me to make another mistake, and because of the number of people who have complained about newer batches since the beginning of last year, my endocrinologist is very unwilling to prescribe it again. I have one private prescription left and need to ensure I get a batch which others have no problem with.

          My annoyance with the ERFA company is in part that, however kind and concerned Dr Knafo was in our very many emails, he wanted something to show up in blood tests. Naturally enough I was not prepared to continue taking my latest ERFA and becoming non-functioning for six weeks, to do this. Even my endocrinologist thought that dangerous.

          Further confusion is that, when I last contacted someone on a different forum about the various current batches, because I would still like to take ERFA in preference to anything else, I was told that it was only people on STTM who had had any bad batches at all. Mary Shomons blog no longer shows the relevant posts and the people who posted on Thyroid UK have moved on to other brands, so it is almost impossible to verify that.

          As for my having a strange way to thank the company that helped me for years, I felt so well on it for five years that I am still trying to take ERFA, which is surely some thanks to them! I didnt report them to the various health authorities that others suggested over the last year and I kept in polite contact with Dr Knafo until he left. However, there will now be a doubt about what happened and whether it will happen again, because, if it was nothing to do with the manufacture, then it is to do with the storage and transportation and therefore out of the control of the company itself.

          This is almost the last place we can compare notes on this issue, please do not try to discourage anyone from doing that or to belittle the very real bad reactions a few of us had to a few of the batches of an otherwise excellent product – something most of us have never denied.

          • Anne, your experience is not alone. There were enough folks all over the world who were once doing well on Erfa, then when they picked up new batches, were not anymore, that it became clear that there were, in fact, some bad batches out there. Granted, some have not experienced them like Caroll, but enough had that it’s pretty clear something went wrong with some of them, even though Erfa was not going to acknowledge it. It’s not just about “STTM” folks. It was reported elsewhere as well, but some leaders are more “political” than others and don’t want to comment. Hang in there! I hope you find a better NDT for you! Hopefully more will comment about the newer batches that are now working better and folks can move to those or move away from Erfa completely for not acknowledging the bad batches–the latter which was a big turnoff for many.

        • Dianne says:

          I sang high praises for ERFA Thyroid for the first 6 years I took it, so not only was I shocked and devastated at the change (whatever it is) in the tablets, I was equally shocked at the unwillingness of ERFA to do anything about truly investigating it. And ultimately, yes, Im very turned off by ERFA. To me, logically, medications dont stop working for no reason, like its a fault of mine. And medications that have previously made us feel well, dont just suddenly cause horrible reactions for no reason at all.

          Some of us arent so lucky, either, to be able to change our medication and stop complaining. Did you know that in Canada ERFA is the ONLY NDT by prescription available to us? So finding a decent replacement has been really difficult.

        • Angie says:

          Dear Carroll: Would like to set the record straight here. I had been taking ERFA since 2009 with great success until early 2014 when a batch from The Canadian Pharmacy made me feel awful. TCP was non-responsive and ERFA was not much better. I could switch back to older ERFA or Nature-throid and symptoms would disappear, so this wasn’t me. There was most definitely something wrong with the batch. I tried some later LF prefix batches and did ok, although one batch did feel extraordinarily strong. When ERFA supposedly looked into the problem, I asked (coming from a laboratory background) to see the data and was refused unless I would sign an agreement not to publicize what I saw. Since others had had problems and I had a moral dilemma with that agreement, I refused. So…no cigar. I do not do as well on other thyroid meds as the old ERFA a/o non-problematic batches. One later batch LF03508A, I did reasonably well on, so there is some inconsistency. A recent batch 14G0111, was again “dodgy”. I find your comments uninformed and short-sighted. While I am glad you are doing well on the ERFA that you have obtained, there are over 800 comments on this site alone and more comments on other thyroid sites expressing similar concerns and problems.

      • Suze says:

        I decided not to do any more on my chart as there is really no big outcry anymore and we are a minority. I have the eight pages of notes which are mostly from comments in the May blog but it’s representative enough. Some people became ill; others had hypo symptoms return such as hair loss, fatigue and weight gain. All of us did well on Erfa before and have no reason to make this up. If we did not become ill or hypo, we’d be the ones scoffing. Maybe we are deluding ourselves? It’s true that some people had no ill effects. My doctor and pharmacist showed no interest in my reporting bad batches that were making me ill. The pharmacist had heard no other complaints. I am still having ups and downs with my doses even when I try adding Synthroid and use my old Erfa which worked last year, so anyone can point to that and say it’s not the Erfa to blame for my ups and downs. All I know is that for two years I was relatively stable taking Erfa and that stopped sometime after starting a new prescription in mid-2014 for 30s and 60s. At this point I realize it’s time to move on and we are really on our own here, and there is not going to be any movement to change Erfa back. I have read about changes in formulation to Armour and Naturethroid which caused a big upheaval, and lots of Eltroxin and Synthroid were recalled years ago as well, and so this is not even new. Maybe all of us just happened to get symptoms from something else. Maybe there were only a few pills in the bad batches and we happened to get them. Whatever the case we are on our own at the mercy of the thyroid pill manufacturers because we need these pills to live. The quality of our life does not seem to be a factor as long as we are taking our pills. I think back to the biggest lie of all which my original endocrinologist said when convincing me to get the radiation. “You will only need to take one little pill a day for the rest of your life and you will be fine, but if you don’t have the radiation you will remain sick.” This little pill was synthroid; I was never fine. I’ve been fine at times on Synthroid plus Cytomel; never on either of those alone. I’ve been pretty well on Erfa and hope to be again. Right now, still having ups and downs.

        • Dianne says:

          Suze, I don’t blame you for not wanting to do any more on the chart. I also feel the big outcry has dwindled away, and the minority of us who have had issues with the new ERFA are pretty much on our own to figure out what we’ll do.

          I have a couple of tablets with 2017 expiry date that I was going to try, but they have dark specks and are shiny-looking, so I think I’ll pass on them. I’ll see if I can find some 2017 stock somewhere that looks like the old ERFA and give those a try. btw, none of the pharmacists I’ve spoken to have heard any other complaints about the new ERFA, either.

          Good luck to you.

    • LAHa says:

      Suze: You know, you are right, I was wondering if it was something they were feeding the pigs. If you change country of manufacture (Belgium to Spain) maybe the origin of the pigs is different. Maybe (upon analysis) the T4 and the T3 is the same as before and correct but maybe the pigs were filled with antibiotics, GMO feed, or worse. From my limited experience with mass spectroscopy the scientists only do target analyses, i.e. they look for what they expect to see and measure their quantities (e.g. T4 and T3). They do not take a full spectrum of everything present – because (guess what) that would be too expensive, and, to be fair, very complex with organic molecules. The offending chemical could be lost in the weeds of the background signals (i.e. signal to noise ratio too low). This information can be “teased out” but it takes a very long time and you have to have some idea where to look. This is why no difference has been seen following the ERF analyses. The answer would be, as suggested, give it to a university lab where a graduate student can sit on the experiment for a month if they feel like it – of course the instrument may drift out of calibration during that time!! Not always easy to find the truth.

    • Marge says:

      I didn’t know anything about this until today! When I picked up my renewed Efra prescription early Jan. 2015 within 3 days I became very sick! flu like symptoms, basically in and out of bed for 7 weeks! Called my Pharmacist because this all started with my Thyroid pills, wanting to find out did I have the right pills? Did they change manufacturer’s. I called 3 times because I felt so sure it was these pills. I even went in to the Pharmacy to check the bottle they were using. When in mid February I ended up on the floor in horrific pain, I called the Pharmacist again about these pills. He told me to call my Specialist immediately, which I did and was taken off immediately and after 7 weeks all of these horrible symptoms stopped. I’m having thyroid blood work this week and seeing my Specialist in 3 weeks but of course being off my medication has left me with numerous problems. Bottom Line: I discovered this blog today and realized I wasn’t crazy! Also learning this medication is derived from desiccated pig (porcine) thyroid gland and creates dosing problems because there is no way to standardize the exact amount of the dose for each batch. My batch is LF04245A Expiry August 2017 and there IS something very wrong with it. I called Erfa, what a waste of time.

  143. Janice the Elder says:

    I’ve been getting a compounded levo-thyroxine, with the only thing added being some glucose powder. However, doing some sleuthing about the factories that produce levo-thyroxine, I find that it is derived onto a substrate of microcrystalline cellulose. Therefore, nobody even needs to add cellulose for there to be some. I have come up with a solution for myself. Since my compounded stuff comes in a capsule, I empty the capsule into a coffee filter sitting in a strainer, positioned over a cup. I then pour cold water over the powder. I looked up cellulose, and it pretty much does not dissolve in water. The levo-thyroxine does dissolve. After the water drains through, I pour the water into another cup, place the strainer and filter back on the first cup, and pour the water through again. I do this four or five times. I then just drink the water. I use the same filter for about three days, and by the third day there is a fair amount of white powder on the coffee filter, so I discard it and use a new filter. I was quite hypothyroid to begin with, and my numbers keep getting better, so I know I am getting the levo-thyroxine into my system. I did tell my doctor about this, and she told me that as long as my numbers keep getting better, to keep doing what I’m doing.

  144. BrianZee says:

    I live in Canada and have been taking ERFA thyroid for many years. In the last year or so I feel like my hypo symptoms have returned– fatigued , irritable, brain fog, etc. I just had my had my full medical plus all my labs, all normal, TSH suppressed, Free T4/T3 mid to upper range plus ferritin normal. I feel the ERFA does not have the efficacy it once had. I used to take compounded porcine thyroid back when ERFA took over production from Parke Davis and there was a shortage. The compounded worked as long as there was no cellulose. What to do!??

  145. Tanya says:

    Likely this is a distribution issue.
    However, I wonder if anyone else has done really poorly [as in side effects that caused you to stop taking it] on ERFA from the get-go?
    My first experience was with them last year 2014, so not sure if I had some of the “bad pills” or am just intolerant to unstable T3 levels in the drug.

  146. Jen says:

    I.had.no.idea. Now I know how I went from feeling great to not. I’ve suffered a year. Thanks for all of the conversation. Just have to figure out my own plan now. Anyone know a good Dr. in southern Ontario, Canada?

    • Char says:

      Jen
      I am in Southern On as well and I go to a Nurse Practitioner. I find they are much more compassionate and willing to learn and work with you when it comes to NDT. Search out London On, Nurse practitioner.

      • Jen says:

        Thanks Char! I’m on ERFA Thyroid, but I have all my old symptoms and some new ones (hives!). I’m going to try the hormone health clinic in Oakville.

  147. Suze says:

    My batch of Erfa that expired July 2017 was fine. I just renewed it and could only get Aug 2017. I was startled to see that they were shiny like the 2016 batches that were bad. But I gave them a chance and had a terrible panic attack for no reason. What could be in those pills? Inconsistent amounts of T3 and T4? I can’t even guess what’s wrong. I was doing absolutely fine on dividing the dose until I ran out of the good batch. If it happened to you, would you continue to give the new batch a chance or go back to the old bad batch or search drug stores demanding to look at the pills until you see some that are not shiny? I do not want to get ridiculous over this but there is absolutely no reason I’d have an attack on the dose that worked great for me before.

  148. Cheryl says:

    I live in Canada and have been on ERFA for many years. I have never seen any of these shiner blotchy pills with more of an indent. The pills I have are the same I’ve always had before. Strange I haven’t seen these other ones.

  149. Maleia says:

    I’ve been on Erfa for three months now. I never had any major symptoms but my TSH was ranging from 3.3-4.5 over the past two years and FT3 and FT4 were low. My reverse T3 ratio was way too high also. (Was negative for Hashis). I’ve only been on 1/2 grain and my recent test came back with TSH down to 1.9 and FT3 and FT4 increased to mid range now (was lower range). My RT3 ratio much better. I’ve just upped to 1 grain to try to get a higher FT3 and drop my TSH further. I feel really good, just concerned as i’ve never had very serious symptoms and this low dose seems to be working to get my numbers in line, but keep reading my dose is super low… when I increased to 1 grain this week felt like intense caffeine reaction, but less reaction a couple of days into it as body must be adjusting. Love Erfa though, been very happy with it.

    • Kris says:

      Yeah, you feel better on ERFA compared to Synthroid but you could probably feel even BETTER. The TSH test the doctors use are terrible and most people feel bad in their ranges. You don’t have to have serious symptoms to be concerned… just annoying ones are enough. When my TSH was in the 1’s, I would stutter or sentences would just come out all jumbled. That isn’t anything serious.. I don’t get paid to talk to people so it’s not like I’d risk losing a job..but it was still an annoying problem. Being cold all the time because your body temp is around 97.1 instead of 98.6 also sucks.

  150. Penny says:

    I have been on EFA 30 mg for only going on three months now.. Via my natural path Dr .. The only thing I can comment on is I was getting extremely tired this last month, but figured it was because I stopped my vitamin B shots. Now taking vitamin B vitamin capsules and my energy is picking up. I am going for new blood work two days from now..see my natural path Tuesday to get results and will find out then the new results. I will inquire if or what she has heard about NDT EFA.. Thank you for all your post on Thyroid issues!

    • Penny, unfortunately, you have been SEVERELY underdosed and for far too long. 30 mg is half of a starting dose. We’ve learned to start on 60 mg (one grain) then start raising by approx. 30 mg (1/2 grain) every two weeks until we’ve found a dose that removes all symptoms. I, Janie, am optimal on 3 1/2 grains….but everyone is a little different on what their optimal amount is. So that’s why you feel extremely tired!! You have now been made worse! Read this page carefully: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101 because you’re going to have to teach your Naturopath how to dose with NDT better…or find a much better practitioner….

      • Tanya says:

        I disagree Janice. Some of us have a sensitive system and need to start very low. I was on a 1/4 of what you consider a starting dose and had side effects within 5 days. Then the dose was increased slowly over time and side effects worsened and increased. We are as you said, all different. Having a good practitioner who takes time to watch and monitor you is the best thing in the world. I think Penny is fortunate indeed!

  151. Monica says:

    Thankfully I’ve not had any problems so far. I’m very happy on Erfa. On the other hand, I don’t know which batches I’ve had, but I’ve been on it for about 15 months now.

  152. Cathy Poland says:

    It’s nice to see some more comments on this. After stopping the ‘bad’ batches of Erfa early this fall and using over the counter thyroid like nutri meds for a few months, when I restarted the 125mg Erfa exp .4/’17 recently, it did feel too strong. Now, after a few weeks, I’m fine with it.
    With the cold weather here in Canada and having been sick with colds, flu too much recently, I may use up my Nutri meds in the afternoon as well as the morning Erfa and see if it helps.

  153. Suze says:

    I was not satisfied with the new Erfa – I was getting pins and needles in my hands and feet. I thought I must have become sensitive to the pork or something in the new formulation was completely toxic to me. So like an idiot I went on plain Synthroid. The second day I had a 15 hour hyper/anxiety attack, 3 hours after taking the dose. After analyzing which was worse, I am back on Erfa. I’d rather have tingling hands and feet than massive anxiety from whatever the synthetic T4 was doing in my system. So here I go again, low dose (1 grain) of Erfa, until I am absolutely sure it is safe to raise it a tiny bit. I would rather be in severe brain fog and sleepy all the time than ever go through a nightmare Synthroid attack again. It’s always: who do you trust? They’re all out for profit; they all make mistakes in manufacturing. So you read people’s results. Erfa users still have far fewer major complaints than Synthroid users. And then there’s the big thing = you have to give it 6 weeks to work; the body has to “get used to it.” I have rarely been that patient but I am going to stick it out and if I keep having horrible results it’s got to be something else besides thyroid and I’m going to see a naturopath. My doctors always go, “whaaa? I don’t know….”

    • Um says:

      Right, and for those of us that have gone through this for 10+ years, a bad batch or a formula change is a regular thing even if years go by before we’re in this mess again. Yeah, ERFA handled this badly and played stupid…but at this point, what are they going to do? Come back and admit they were wrong? Unlikely.

      And really, you should’ve tried another brand of NDT instead of going back to Synthroid. Doctors in general suck. They don’t know anything that they can’t check off a chart.

      • Kris says:

        It does not take 6 weeks to kick in. That is just what your doctors tell you when you are on Synthroid and they retest your TSH every 6 weeks to make sure it stays high where you are hypo and feel like crap.

        I do not have a thyroid and can tell instantly if something is working for me or not. I let it dissolve under my tongue. You can feel it kicking in like you would feel anything else. It’s kind of like people who are dependent on caffeine or alcohol and need it to pick them up to give them energy… or how you take something for pain relief and feel it fade. You just feel it kicking in. Stick with NDT, get optimized or close to it and then you’d understand everything your Synthroid doctor told you was wrong.

  154. Sandra says:

    Hi everyone,
    I DO want everyone to know that when I started a new batch of Erfa LF03833A expiry 05/2017 have had an improvement. I did as suggested when I was not feeling well and had a ton of blood work done and also tested my heart as I was having palpitations and had a murmur. Along with just feeling pure crap all the time, antisocial, I had a strange symptom of achy lungs, could not do any inclines, even mild ones when I walked without that symptom. I also had a dull ache and lower arm weakness. My results showed I was hyper, ferritin ok and so I lowered it from 5.5 grains to 5 grains and felt better on the new pills. I even invited friends over for the first time in a year this past two weekends and it does feel wonderful to participate in life again. I walk 50- 60 minutes a day now with none of those sypmtoms and am not fatigued from it. I have also been involved in part of a sexual harrassment case at work between a manager and young part time girls and I would never have had the strength to help them with the way I felt before.
    Now I know you are all going to say, ah well, she was hyper all along, but if that was the case then why when I tried to lower it before on the crummy Erfa, did I not feel better like I did this time?
    I guess the only way to be sure is to try some of those crummy pills again but I just can’t bring myself to do that right now. I am playing catch up with my life.

    • Marjaana says:

      Sandra, I have been very well since starting this same batch as you. Please people, read the older comments too. I have report my better feelings earlier and still feeling great on Erfa again!

      • Pete says:

        I also have a bottle from the same batch and it’s working! Actually it’s a second one in a row (from the same batch that I received from my pharmacy). The only batch I’ve had problems with so far was Lot: 18G051 Exp: 07/2016. I really hope it was just a temporary thing with the bad batches!

  155. Trisha says:

    Any RECENT updates of ERFA from Nov. or December 2014? Until solid,
    consistent efficacy with ERFA is once again reported by patients – ERFA will
    remain doubtful and questionable at best. For me, an unquestionable medication – is NOT am option.
    I am now back on Armour which once again is working AFTER they tweaked it 2 years following its reformulation in ’09/2010.
    I do NOT do well on Nature-Throid (it just misses the mark), and after 5 weeks on Thiroyd – I realized, it falls short, as I
    became mildly depressed two weeks later, and in retrospect could clearly see
    how impaired & unproductive I had become.
    So now without adrenal issues, & increasing my FERRITEN level, I am
    stable once again on Armour. Until
    ERFA is able to demonstrate its efficacy
    by patient comments, I won’t be going back to it!
    Anyone KNOW how much sales have
    declined & plummeted? It’s got to be a
    drastic reduction! Are they wearing blinders or what?

    • Ruth says:

      The problem is that people feeling good on Erfa won’t take the time to put a comment on this website. This is why I do it
      I FEEL GOOD on it. And I’m not alone! My pharmacist told me that he still sells a lot of Erfa Thyroid. He even sells more than before and he doesn’t have complaint about it. I think it’s important to say it. A product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist…

      • Ruth, we’ve watched and worked with NDT for years now. And yes, everyone has their favorite as to what they feel works best for them. But…this was never just about “a product with 100% satisfaction doesn’t exist”. There were too many patients who, after years of doing wonderful on Erfa just like you, suddenly found themselves doing absolutely awful when they refilled their prescription. It was clear that something terrible was done those those pills, even though Erfa proceeded to deny it.

        • Ruth says:

          I understand your point and I’m really sorry about patients who went wrong after a refill. I’ve decided to trust erfa and to trust Health Canada. They wouldn’t have allowed a change like this.

          • Sadly, Erfa and/or Health Canada clearly did allow a terrible change like this, even if they didn’t realize what had happened, or aren’t going to say so. 🙁 But luckily, some of the new batches aren’t affecting people so badly, so we can hope this 2014 fiasco will fade away. It’s just too bad no one was honest about it.

          • Angie says:

            I agree with Janie. I had taken ERFA with GREAT success since the initial Armour reformulation in 2009. I also had success with one newer batch and now am having problems on another. I reported this to Canada Drug who were much more responsive than The Canadian Pharmacy regarding the problems. I would once again become ERFA’s #1 fan if they would admit they had a problem and correct it. However, you can not change what you do not acknowledge and it appears that they are still peddling batches that are inconsistent.

      • Um says:

        I would read through the old posts on this page. You posted a general question on a page that isn’t followed often and some have tried ERFA and reported back. It’s one of those things you’ll either have to avoid it longer or take a chance and decide for yourself. Like everything else in the world, some posters or reviewers will hate it and others will love it.

    • Angie says:

      I do not know about ERFA’s sales. What I am interested in is the “tweaking” that you mention of Armour’s 2009 reformulation. Do you know this for a fact? Janie, any comment? Thanks! Oh and this comment is for Trisha.

    • Anna says:

      Trisha,

      Do you notice Armour working differently now than before? I have read so many negative reviews on reformulated Armour that I have hesitated to try it…but do you think it is working better now than before?

  156. Anne says:

    Has anyone got any of batch LF04140, 60mg expiry July 17 and if so are they ok? I can get those at last but would like to know they work before buying them!

  157. Rob says:

    I mentioned in my previous post, I would re-post once I had received new blood tests contrasting my change from Armour to ERFA. I have those tests now and the values are virtually identical. If anything the values show slightly higher activity for the equivalent dosage of the ERFA brand. This finding corresponds to my subjective feeling that the two brands are more-or-less equivalent. Subjectively, the only difference I thought I observed was that the ERFA brand had a flatter effect across the day while the Armour had a greater initial effect in the morning and less effect in the evening. As I said, that is pure speculation based on a sample of one (me). People should be careful about drawing conclusions based solely on their personal subjective experiences. They are important and determinative, of course, but too many things might have entered the causal chain unless they conduct what is called multiple baseline tests with reversals. Based on the comments, no one here has done that.

    • Angie says:

      Au contraire, Rob. Many of us here that have problems with newer batches of ERFA have done that. I myself have gone back and forth between new and old several times AND between new ERFA and Nature-throid several times. This is not just about equivalent T3 and T4 measurements; but possibly due to contamination or other “active” (e.g., T1, T2 and calcitonin) differences as well.

  158. Cathy Poland says:

    Hi Janie, So you are back on Erfa? What is your expiry date? And do you find they work ok for you now?

  159. Susan says:

    I just started taking the tablets today and I am so scared, should I be worrying? I swallow all three together….

    • Hi Susan. There are different doses, such as 15 mg, 30 mg, 60 mg….etc. So we don’t know what you mean. But do know that we usually break our dose up to twice a day. For example, I take 2 grains Erfa in the morning and 1 1/2 grains in the early afternoon.

    • Lola says:

      Susan.. Many of us take a portion of our total daily thyroid dosage in the am and then again in the mid-afternoon.

  160. Suze says:

    I discovered that if I take 30 when I get up and 30 five hours later, just as I am falling into a hypo stupor, it revives me completely and I feel euthyroid the rest of the day. I know this is old news for all of you, to divide the doses for a steadier supply of T3, but I had written it off as ineffective when I tried it before. I tried it again in desperation. I think it is working because these pills are stronger than they were in 2012 and 2013 when I remained hypo even on 120, and adding another 15 or 30 later in the day did nothing. Anyway, so far so good. Maybe even the worst thyroid preparations work better in several small doses so we don’t get too much of the strong stuff at a time.

    • Definitely Suze, about multi-dosing. We’ve seen better results with it, too, especially twice a day. 🙂 More times isn’t usually needed unless one is still underdosed, as you still are.

  161. Suze says:

    I was actually thinking that my prescription is from two different batches since the pills TASTE DIFFERENT randomly. One pill will taste disgusting and rancid, like a horrible pork taste; the next pill might have almost no pork taste but an increase in the sugar sweetness and a difference in the way it breaks up when I chew it. I get fed up with the inconsistency and yet I still trust that it will average out. Am I trusting the wrong company? And I realize that maybe it is the cortisol/ferritin/other physical condition I might have. My doctors have refused to give me these tests again and I have got to go to a naturopath or someone to get the tests. So: what about the difference in the pills’ tastes, along with a difference day to day in the effects of the same exact dose? Me, or the pills? I am going to see if I can get it compounded but is that even a guarantee?

  162. Angie says:

    It’s been a while since I posted or responded to the continuing thread regarding ERFA. I did reasonably well on a 2017 batch (LFo3508A) and then ordered a new supply from Canada Drug (Lot #14G0111) and here we go again. This batch expires in July 2017. Interesting that this lot# begins with numbers.

  163. Cathy Poland says:

    Suze, another thing, maybe you should ask your pharmacy if your prescription was made up from two bottles, maybe find out what the batch no’s and expiry dates were on the original bottle (s).

  164. Cathy Poland says:

    Hi friends, I’m getting used to my latest batch of 125mg Erfa, expiry April 2017 starting with LF forget the rest. I may have had reaction when I started them recently because I had been taking over the counter, much weaker thyroid. Anyway, feeling ok with the above pills now.

  165. Suze says:

    Hi, I have a comment and a question. I’ve been on the new Erfa for a few weeks and did all right on 60 though I was mildly hypo. I increased it to 90 after a couple weeks because I felt it was time. I felt so great yesterday – virtually euthyroid for the first time in ages, then today I feel the dose made me hyper. The same dose of 90. I so hate these erratic effects. I mean do the pills vary in strength even in the same batch? I have not had a chance to get blood tests since August. But I know I was hypo for at least 2 months when I had to lower the dose because of the bad batch, as I was forgetful, cold, gained weight, sleepy, and the whole list of hypo things. Yesterday I didn’t forget a single thing. My mind worked perfectly, I had energy and I felt well. I did have insomnia and woke after only 5 hours as if I didn’t need the 7 to 8 hours I’ve needed lately. Why did the euthyroid turn to hyper so fast? I woke with a head and neck ache. It got better after a bath. I’m now feeling hyper, racing, restless, the familiar feeling of too much T3! Just when I thought I was doing better, and felt my stable health coming back. Can someone explain this? In the past my drs. have said alternate the doses; split the doses, etc. I’ve tried all these. I want CONSISTENCY! Does anyone have that? I do not want to go back to the synthetic. I made up my mind to trust the desiccated but there’s got to be something I’m not understanding about the effects. Is it just that I need to live thru the ups and downs again and the body will adjust? I also have pins and needles in both hands and feet, mostly when I lie down to sleep. It’s not as much in the daytime. I’ve had this for weeks. Does anyone else have this when the dose is wrong? And by the way I took as much as 150 last year without feeling hyper so what on earth is up with this?

  166. Cathy Poland says:

    Dear Kat, It’s probably similar to mine which was LF something April Expiry. Mine is 125mg.
    I got a response from Erfa to a letter I sent to the director. There is a new medical director there now but same response as from the last director, Dr Knafo. Unfortunate, but understandable as they couldn’t admit to anything changing. Here it is:
    Thank you for your email describing your experience with ERFA THYROID, we are honoured that you and your husband have held us in such regard in the past. We would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention and assure you that we have recorded them in our safety surveillance database as we are committed to providing safe and effective products.

    Concerning your question regarding changes in formulation of the product, we have not changed the product, manufacturing methods, or our suppliers. The ingredients are listed on our product monograph that can be found at http://www.eci2012.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Thyroid_monographie_ANGLAIS.pdf but there has been no changes made to them. The pills look shinier due to newer compressing machines (to form the tablet), but this should have no impact on effectiveness.

    All complaints that you mentioned on STTM has lead us to test multiple samples of all lots involved and despite what information is available online there does not seem to be any correlation between a specific lot and a patients response. I understand that this is frustrating for patients but I assure you that we have not decreased our standards of quality, our ingredients, nor our manufacturing process. I sincerely hope that your health improves soon.

    If you are still experiencing symptoms I invite you to consult your physician, who is more familiar with your medical history and your condition and is able to prescribe a TSH test that might help determine if your hypothyroidism is well controlled.

    Kind regards,

    Sebastien Chartrand

  167. Kat says:

    Anyone tried LFO3834A Exp: May 2017 (60mg)? Any good?

    • Lola says:

      Kat… Someone back in Dec., I think it was, commented that they were doing great on batch
      LF 03833A – 60 mg – exp 5.2017. So scroll back up in the comments. 🙂

  168. Cathy Poland says:

    Sorry for all the messages. I just want to add I’ve been taking 125mg Erfa for many years, once a day, but, as I found this last batch a lot stronger (april 2017) I am having to divide the 125mg in half now morning and afternoon, instead of taking the whole one a.m. It is great to have the energy back and feel clearer.

  169. Cathy Poland says:

    Ok so this takes some digesting, good to know that we only pay attention to what’s on the bottle, never though about the fact that it’s expiring on a different date on the monthly prescription.

  170. Alissa says:

    I too live in Canada (Vancouver area) and had a bad reaction to the new ERFA – went hyper with my TSH plummeting to barely detectible and the hypo symptoms (cold, tired, unexplained weight gain) came back. Oddly, this is very similar to the reaction I have to synthroid which I cannot tolerate at all. I had been taking 140mg and maintaining a suppressed TSH of .2-.5 for years and had to cut back to 125 before I found out what had happened and that it had changed thanks to this site.

    Right now, if you are in Canada and not close enough to the border to go fill a script yourself (you can take 3 months worth no problem and honestly I would not hesitate to go for a whole years worth and take my chances at the border- it’s thyroid hormone, not oxycontin for crying out loud), I think the best option is to find some of the good old ERFA – it’s still out there. I just found an untapped bottle of 500 of the old 125s so I’m pretty well set until at least March 2016 when they expire and I will be trying to stockpile some more and will take them past the expiry date if I can find more. Luckily, my endo is cool and understands the situation so he will write whatever prescriptions I need to stock up or head across the border. I would bet you can still find 125s & 60s out there if you go looking. I have no hope for the 30s/1 grains though – they seem to be long gone.

    The new stuff’s lot numbers mostly start with LF… and the old stuff begins with numbers – usually 12 from my experience. Get in the car and head out to the burbs, bedroom communities, and the weird, small pharmacies that close early – that’s where I’ve has the best luck. Don’t go just by the expiry date – it’s the lot number that matters and the bottles are different too (see the perfect photos on this site!). The last bottle I found of the good old stuff has the same expiry date as the bad new batches so it must be some of the last out of the old factory. Ideally, go to the pharmacies, explain the situation and ask to look at the bottle & actual pills to be sure. If you strike out in your area, get on the phone – I’m sure there is plenty sitting on shelves up north and in the middle of nowhere since not very many people take the NDT – go get it and don’t let it just expire untaken! The place I found the last batch was awesome and actually called around to their other stores and found more of the old ones for me and have them stashed with my name on them so I can just keep buying 100 at time so my extended health benes will pay for them.

    I don’t know what I’m going to do when my stash of the old stuff runs out, but it is a relief to have bought some time and, hopefully, the kinks will get worked out at the new factory in Spain in the meantime – sounds like they already are which is great news. I did have some email with ERFA too and just got the company line of ‘nothing has changed.’ Be careful with the new stuff – it seemed stronger to me in a weird and not so good way.

    I do feel like I need a little more so think I’m going to start importing and adding a nip/half grain of the Armour to get back to my 140mg. Is Armour the way to go – that’s what my endo wrote the script for and what he is familiar with (he has a few patients that still swear by it and always liked it better than the ERFA), but should I try another brand these days?

    Thanks for the super helpful site and good luck everyone!!

    • Cathy Poland says:

      Alissa, thanks for your info that March 2016 is still the old type but the last ‘good’ batch I used up was 125mg, expiring Aug, ’15, (12021 batch) and then the November 2015 was bad. But you’re saying that the march ’16 was still the good old ones. Does anyone have any idea how this is possible?
      My pharmacy didn’t have any more of the good ones from Aug ’15. Don’t know what to do but am thinking of continuing the too strong 4/17 batch and just keep cutting them in half and taking once or twice daily.

      • Alissa says:

        Yes – I no longer have the lot number handy (it is still at the pharmacy and I can check for you if you want – it definitely started with numbers not LF…), but I found some of the old 125s about 6 weeks ago that are non-speckled, not shiny and they actually work! When I first started taking them after months on the new stuff it was like the first time – all warm and tingly – could feel it soaking in. The ones I have expire March 2016 – remember, if you are just looking at a prescription bottle labeled by the pharmacy, the expiry date will usually be no longer than a year from when you filled it rather than the date on the big bottle of 500 the pharmacy has. Try another pharmacy – I went to well over 10 before I found the stash at one that closes at 6pm so no one goes there. Before I showed up, they never had a customer buy them there before, but both the 30s & 60s they had were of the newer vintage which is not too surprising since both (mostly the 30s so people were forced to split the 60s) were in short supply right before the change over. I did find some old 60s elsewhere though so they are around too. At least some of the old ones are still out there – probably with with 2015 & 2016 expiry dates – keep looking and it will at least buy some time until you can figure something else out. Think small towns where the only Dr. insists on synthetics, bad locations, stupid hours, etc. I basically pop into every pharmacy I see these days and see what they have, especially when I’m out of town in more remote areas.

        • Dianne says:

          It’s actually very confusing because some of the bad batches actually start with numbers – for eg. some of us have found that 125 mg tabs, batch 13C06 expiry March 2016 is a bad batch. So all bad batches don’t start with letters, necessarily. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the batch numbers, or the sequences of the batches.

          • Alissa says:

            It is confusing for sure and it’s probably not worth even trying to figure it out. I have in my possession old and new 125s that both have an expiry date of March 2016 and the new ones are what made me go hyper and hypo at the same time. I have not seen any of the new ones (larger, flatter, shiny, speckled) that start with numbers, but that definitely does not mean they are not out there. I never had a ‘bad batch’ of the old smaller, matte ones, but that also does not mean that they don’t exist either.

            Scoring the old ones is not much of a solution, but it sure helped me out for the moment (or until March 2016) so I wanted to let people who are also having a hard time that they are still around with a little looking if you are willing to expend the time and effort to go to a bunch of pharmacies. I guess going in person and actually looking at the pills is the only way to be sure.

    • shirley says:

      I’m from the east coast of canada. I’m getting a compounded formula from Fords pharmacy in New Brunswick (thyroid porcine(acidoph). At my request, they replaced the filler with acidophilus. I’ve been taking this formula for 3-4 months and I think I finally got the amount correct. First time in many many years that my body feels “normal”. The compound is expensive ( 2x as much as the ERFA) but, given how I feel now (normal), for me, it is worth the extra cost. I wonder if the old filler in the ERFA are a major issue. I’ll let you know how things progress over the next 6 months, if folks are interested.

      • Dianne says:

        Hi Shirley, I’m interested in hearing how things progress for you on the compounded thyroid hormone. I’ve also considered using acidophilus as a filler if I go ahead and start compounded thyroid, and it sounds promising. Is it in powder-form in a capsule, and are the only two ingredients desiccated thyroid hormone and acidophilus? How many milligrams per dose, if you don’t mind me asking?Thanks.

        • shirley says:

          Hi Dianne. My compounded thyroid comes in capsule form. Each of my capsules is 112mg (exactly what I require). If i need more they just up each capsule. The only ingredients are the desiccated thyroid hormone and the acidophilus. I’ll let you know how things go over the next 6 months. So far so good. Let me know if you have any further questions.

          • Dianne says:

            Hi Shirley, thank you for answering my questions about your compounded thyroid hormone. If I have any more questions, I’ll let you know. I’d appreciate if you update us as time goes on. Thanks again. 🙂

      • Alissa says:

        Thanks for this info Shirley. I may try going the compounding route when my stash of the old ERFA runs out. I have started adding 15mg of Armour to my 125 of ERFA and so far it seems to be a pretty good combo. Adding 15mg of the new ERFA did not go as well – made me jittery. However, importing my full dose of 140 mg of the Armour (and I may need more since by most accounts it’s weaker than the ERFA) from the States would be more than 4 times as expensive and without my extended heath plan’s 80% prescription coverage, it will cost more than 10 times what I pay for the ERFA. I really like the idea of probiotics as the filler too – that’s an awesome idea!

  171. Cathy Poland says:

    Wow, both my daughter and I took our 125mg Erfa, April 2017 expiry date, found it quite strong, we cleaned the whole house! It’s a bit too strong for us so we’ll get a smaller dose.

  172. Cathy Poland says:

    My daughter, who took the same amount, 125mg of Erfa last night and this morning, is getting the ‘singing’ feeling, feeling energetic. She may cut her dose in 2 and take half morning and half afternoon. Anyone else experiencing this?

  173. Cathy Poland says:

    I’ve just got some new Erfa, exp. April 2017, they have a slightly shiny exterior like the new ones but dissolve and taste like the old, good ones. Will wait a few days to see how they work. Anyone else tried the April ’17 ones, if so, how do you find them?

  174. Kate says:

    Hi everyone,

    I was on synthroid for 8 years and never felt good. I am not on natural vitamins but am curious about NDT….I see alot of mixed reviews and am on the fence of what to do. My doc isn’t supportive of much, I had to make her test my t3 after explaining about all the research I had done. How much is it for erfa’s thyroid??? Anyone try anything else that worked well???

  175. Cathy Poland says:

    Dear friends, this last post about Erfa being good again is fantastic news. I’d been fine on my old batch of Erfa Batch 12H021, expiring on 08/ 2015 (pharmacist had pasted ex. 2015/01/04) I had a whole bottle (500).
    The new batch I got in November ’14 was one of the ‘changed’ batches; shiny, bad symptoms almost immediately was only 200 pills (no batch no.) expiring 2015/11/17.
    What you are saying is, get expiry date, July 2017 then? Is that unanimous?

  176. Suze says:

    I can report that the July 2017 batch of Erfa is good. I’ve been on it for only 4 days as the Synthroid/Cytomel combo gave me side effects and I gave it up. I got the new Erfa and it looks just like the older batches – not shiny. So whatever they were doing wrong, they stopped. I started in with just one grain to be conservative and have no side effects, no hypo or hyper attacks at all, yet adequate energy. I will stay on one grain as long as it works this well; if it becomes too low I will raise it gradually as I did before. This site has kept me going through all the upheavals. I hope I never look at the synthetics as a valid alternative again. I do think all the complaints that people poured into the manufacturers made a difference. If no one had said a word we’d probably still be getting the shiny pills that did not work right.

  177. Sandra says:

    I will be getting lab results this coming Monday and will be very interested to see what they say. I have started a new batch of Erfa just after those labs (was on an old batch) and the new one is LF03833A expiry 05/1017.
    I know that you say that there could be other things going on with us Janie and that could be a possibility but it is very interesting how one can be on the same lifestyle for years with no changes such as diet, same amount of hydrocortisone with attempts here and there to lower when feeling optimal, same exercise etc. and then you go downhill.
    I remember that when I was balanced on the old good Erfa, I could handle all my job throws my way but this past year has been just awful. It wouldn’t even matter if I stress dosed my cortef either. One thing for sure that has happened in the last year and for the life of me cannot figure out is I must have inflammation, have achy forearms that are weak when lifting things and have on and off, achy lungs, a very weird symptom that when walking slightly up hill, on some days ache badly. I have been for an echo cardiogram, stress test, neck xray and lab work so will be very interested to see what is up.
    I am so very happy to be off for Christmas break to rest up and pray for a better 2015.
    and wishing the same to you all here!

  178. Shinta says:

    Dear Janie, first i want to thank you immensely for your website… I still would have known so little about it if it weren’t for your information. I cried a lot when going through your website, so many common symptoms i had suffered for years only because my endo’s incapability to make me better.
    Since 15 years now i am a hyperthyroid going to hypothyroid due to radioactive iodine therapy after i delivered our first child, 7 months after. I was for 15 years on the Belgian product L-Thyroxine 75mg daily,T4 only medication. On December 1st this month I got a severe depression and uncontrollable moodswings and told myself i want to heal as since my last pregnancy in 2011 my symptoms were getting worse, just as described in your website, i realized afterwards. I found an orthomoleculaire physician here in Belgium, Europe, Dr Proesmans, and i am lucky my general physician Dr Foulon has an open mind and immediately prescribed me the French product Euthyral (combined synthetic T4 0,1mg & T3 0,02mg). I am taking this since only 25 days now along with a number of supplements, keeping away from gluten and sugar, and keeping a more Japanese foodintake and there is a huge difference already: my severe cold intolerance disappeared, my Achilles inflammation stopped, my headskin stopped feeling painful, my eyes started tearing again, my dry skin has improved (not completely gone yet), my joints stopped being painful, my moodswings getting slightly better, allergies has been better, just to name a few. Must admit that my anxiousness towards stress situations still is high and i am hoping to improve this too as none of our four children and husband deserve a mother and a wife being often upset…
    Now i am willing to try the NDT’s, more specifically the Canadian Erfa Thyroid. As i read here that the symptoms will disappear in time with synthetic combined thyroid T4 and T3, but they will definately improve much more when on Natural DT. So i am convinced.
    My general physician already wrote me the medical prescription and my pharmacist is willing to get it for me. Of course now that i read about the bad batches of Erfa i am doubting to buy these. The ortho physician is willing to get me the Armour, but that brand is also under scrutiny. Any other brand you might recommend me then?

    By the way.. i left my endocrinologist after he claimed three weeks ago that most of my symptoms should be addressed by other physicians and are not caused by my lazy thyroid and thus his unwillingness to write me the combined T4 & T3… just as you described here,Janie.

    Shinta (47 years)

    • Hi Shinta. Not sure what you mean that Armour is under scrutiny? It’s not anymore. I will say that the 2017 expiration dates of Erfa have been reported as better lately. Or you can go with Armour if you can get it. 🙂

    • Lola says:

      Hi, Shinta… Do research/google estrogen dominance or unapposed estrogen. Here in the states, we can order a natural progesterone cream
      that is so helpful for insomnia, moodiness, flooding etc. There is also a book you can read ‘What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause’ by
      Dr. John Lee. The book isn’t just for menopausal women but is excellent for women of all ages. We are exposed to so many estrogen-like
      compounds in our diet and environment, even women in their thirties can be experiencing estrogen dominance. Natural progesterone can be
      helpful in balancing all our hormones. ProGest is one good brand name. You just start counting from the first day of your period… 10 days.
      On the 10/11 th day, you start applying just a dab of natural progesterone cream for ten days. Apply to fatty areas (most of us have plenty of
      those..lol) such as underarms, sides of breasts, inner thighs, alternating sites in order to avoid saturation.

      As for thyroid supplements, WP by RLC Labs and NP by Acella are good. Naturethroid is okay but very chalky. Some say Armour has improved
      over the last three- four years and you may be able to take it just fine, especially in the smaller pill size, (60 mg/1 grain and smaller).

  179. Suze says:

    OK – I will get those tests again. I’ll study your info. Thanks!

  180. Suze says:

    I am using 50 Synthroid and 6 Cytomel and I felt horrible yesterday, like a combination of hyper and hypo – severe brain fog mostly. It was frightening. I can’t stay on it. I am not willing to “give it 6 weeks” or whatever. If I am better off using a bad batch of Erfa I will do that. How fast can I increase it to feel normal in the brain again? ?And what is it in this mix that causes it – the T3 or the T4? Like I felt reasonable all day and got the horrible head thing at night, how can I explain it, like a brain lag, where I am not thinking precisely. When I was on the bad batch of Erfa I’d be OK some days, and then have a hyper attack for a few hours, followed by severe hypo at night. BUT I could think. I feel the hypo thing in the eyes first. On one day I felt euthyroid. Does anyone know how to avoid the hypo-hyper attacks and swings on either Erfa or synthetic. I have had these for years so it’s not just the bad batch. It was just more severe with the last Erfa but this seems actually WORSE. I was reading my old notes as far back as 1992 to 2001 and I had horrible attacks of hypo and hyper with plain Synthroid or Eltroxin, and when I was on T3 alone compounded, my tsh went up to 40 even though I could function. Two blood tests I had in 1997, one was a perfect tsh of 0.7 and three months later on the same dose of 100 T4 it shot up to tsh 10. I do not understand how a little hormone pill can cause such havoc, no matter how much I read about the way it works. I would rather be on the edge of hyper but functional all day than severely hypo. Recently I was pretty good mixing 50 Synthroid with 60 Erfa – some days in November. But every dose and type sometimes give me an attack. Bottom line is right now I feel I am hypothyroid, but had severe weird hypo/hyper brain fog last night and do not know what to take today to avoid that! Please give me some hints. Sometimes I take nothing and whatever was wrong seems to clear out of my system. I am wondering if it’s me – something in the conversion, or something in the pituitary, or the actual tsh acting up – whatever it is – it’s not like the little pills are drugs. They are supposed to be bioidentical hormones, therefore why the severe reactions, sometimes delayed? If this rant sounds irrational, that is my brain fog and frustration! My endo is out of town and his secretary not calling me back and I am overdue to see him. I have to solve this on my own. My ferritin and cortisol were normal a few months ago. Is it always that? Can they go wrong just from stress? Or is it diet – I have experimented every which way and was on a low carb paleo diet for 2 years, recently experimented with starches to see if it would calm me. It does not work. I do better on the low carb, high protein. Anything else I should try?

  181. Nick Whetstone says:

    I will also give a cautious thumbs up to EFRA again as I am feeling better than I was through the middle part of the year.

    • Anne says:

      Nick glad you’re feeling better than you were, can you let me know the strength, batch number and expiry date of the ones you think are ok, also did they come via Pharmarama do you know? I have a private prescription but haven’t dared buy any more yet as don’t want to waste even more money. Thanks!

      • Nick Whetstone says:

        Hi Anne, Apologies for the delay in answering your question – I have been catching up on jobs after last year’s almost continuous ill-health.

        My latest batch is CFO 3882A (05/17). The last 2 could be a 7 – it’s hard to tell from the scribble. I am nearly at the end of that one and have my repeat prescription arriving tomorrow.

        • Anne says:

          Thanks for telling me this Nick and I’m glad you’re feeling so much better. I have a private prescription and Pharmarama currently have 1 grains of batch LF04140A expiry J