Has Armour gone back to its pre-reformulation? And 5-HTP is pretty remarkable…

Though this page was originally written in 2012 about Armour and 5-htp, it’s been updated to the present day and time.

It’s only a handful of comments here or there in patient groups, and I’ve gotten two emails as well. But there are reports that recent bottles of Armour desiccated thyroid have pills which are performing just like they did before the unappreciated reformulation of 2009. i.e. they are softer again and can be done sublingually, and may be back to more dextrose and less cellulose.

Said one patient who contacted me via email: “It’s interesting what I read in the thyroid group the other day that her pills were back to being soft. But typical condescending Forest Labs who never said a word in 2009 to the most informed group of patients in the world, and haven’t communicated to us directly once again if it really has changed.”

So, if it’s true, there may be a phase of figuring out what you get: the hard ones that patients found HAVE to be chewed up to be the most effective, or the return of the softer ones which could be done sublingually. I’d be curious to know which pharmacies and in which city/state are giving out Armour tablets that are softer.

UPDATE: Forest Labs, the former makers of Armour, was bought out by Activas in 2014, then the price of Armour became the highest priced NDT around. And for many, it wasn’t working like it used to. But some still do well on it, paying the highest price. Learn from this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/options-for-thyroid-treatment


5-HTP can be miraculous against depression, plus can help troubled sleep patterns

When I went into full menopause, one issue I noticed was out-of-the-blue was afternoon depression, in spite of being optimal on Natural Desiccated Thyroid. Bottomed-out female hormones can be problematic until I can correct them. And I found something that worked to completely remove the afternoon depression with the FIRST day of use: 5-HTP. I was shocked.

Turns out that menopause can also mean low levels of serotonin–a brain transmitter that affects your mood positively. Your over-the-counter 5-HTP supplement (which comes from the seeds of the African plant Griffonia simplicifolia) is a precursor of trytophan, the amino acid responsible for making serotonin and melatonin. And lo and behold, what do many prescription anti-depressives, such as Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) meds, do?? They increase the bioavailability of serotonin! But why put up with the side-effects when 5-HTP is natural and has so few, I decided!!

How much? 100 mg did the trick for me, once a day. But others report needing 200 or 300 mg. I started on too much–had dizziness with starting on 200 mg. Found out the hard way that 100 mg was enough for the time being until I coud better treat my female hormonal issue. I’ve read where some only start on 50 mg.

For better sleep, studies have shown that 5-HTP outright will improve your sleep due to increasing melatonin. Research has reported a lengthening and deepening of their REM period of sleep–the deep sleep–and without increasing the amount of time they sleep. It also seems to smooth any ups and downs with sleeping. Some research shows it can take several weeks, but I figure that can be individual.

There’s even anecdotal evidence that taking 5-HTP has helped drinkers avoid the bottle. i.e. if someone drinks to self-medicate against depression, 5-HTP could help.

There are definite cautions with 5-HTP! i.e. it’s NOT recommended to take it with anti-depressants or any seratonin-raising drug, as together one could raise their serotonin levels too high. A lot of different experiences with 5-HTP can be found here. As always, talk to your doctor about using it or not. It may be for only short-term use.

NOTE ABOUT DEPRESSION: For hypothyroid patients, especially those still stuck on T4-only like Synthroid, depression is pretty common due to inadequate levels of T3. Once you get on Natural Desiccated Thyroid, as well as correct any potential low iron or low cortisol issues, you may find that depression is kicked to the wind!

As intellectually stated by Eric Fliers from the Department of Endocrinology in Amsterdam, “triiodothyronine (T3) is also capable of increasing serotonergic neurotransmission by desensitization of inhibitory 5-HT1a autoreceptors in the raphe nucleus, thus disinhibiting cortical and hippocampal serotonin release, and by increasing cortical 5-HT2 receptor sensitivity, further increasing 5-HT neurotransmission.”


Two newer pages on STTM as of 2012, and updated to today:

  1. Adaptogens: read how certain plant and root substances can help you cope better with stress, here.
  2. Graves Disease: never thought I’d have a page on STTM about it, but enough patients have asked that it’s now here. Besides, since many Graves patients become hypothyroid, it’s good for them be included on a site that teaches what patients have learned about far better thyroid treatment, which is NOT T4-only.
New to this website? Read about:
  1. Desiccated Natural Thyroid as the treatment with the best results
  2. Why T4-only meds like Synthroid aren’t doing the job for all too many
  3. How many thyroid patients fall into sluggish adrenal function aka adrenal fatigue
  4. How you can treat low cortisol without the use of HC
  5. What patients have learned
  6. Mistakes patients make in their treatment
And get the REVISED STTM BOOK for more details and ease of learning about what patients have learned.



Important notes: All the information on this website is copyrighted. STTM is an information-only site based on what many patients worldwide have reported in their treatment and wisdom over the years. This is not to be taken as personal medical advice, nor to replace a relationship with your doctor. By reading this information-only website, you take full responsibility for what you choose to do with this website's information or outcomes. See the Disclaimer and Terms of Use.

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62 Responses to “Has Armour gone back to its pre-reformulation? And 5-HTP is pretty remarkable…”

  1. Anna

    Update: in Belgium, where NDT drugs are prescribed by the so called Hertoghe doctors (in many European countries, it seems impossible to get NDT at all), only Armour and Erfa have been available in certain pharmacies. A pharmacist I talked to today said that they don’t carry Armour anymore, as it has tripled in price in recent years and now costs so much more than Erfa…plus, Erfa is also available in 500 ct bottles which makes it a more cost effective alternative…I am going to try it, and keep my fingers crossed it’s still working OK (even though some problems have been reported since production was moved from Belgium to Spain a few years ago…).

    This pharmacist said nobody in Belgium wants Armour anymore, which is why they stopped ordering it…has Armour tripled in price in the US as well, or is it just in Europe…? Anyway, I see no reason to pay three times more than necessary for a drug that may not even be working optimally…

  2. Daniella

    Hi folks~ I’ve just started Armour thyroid after being on Nature Thyroid for the past 2+ years. Before that I was on Erfa but it was expensive and the Nature thyroid was cheap to get from my doctor’s office. Oddly I had a lot of small symptoms of hypo but I thought it was other problems with my adrenals, digestion and possible environmental influence’s. Never occurred to me that I was just not assimilating the Nature thyroid that well.
    After looking at some blogs here on this site, I decided to try Armour… really wasn’t expecting much but thought it couldn’t hurt.
    It’s just been 1 day but it’s the first time in the past 2 years that I can feel my body getting the thyroid med. I was on 3 grains of Nature thyroid and tried to up my dose but didn’t feel anything, so stopped and went back to 3 grains.
    As i said it’s just been a day but i’m so excited to hopefully get my health back on track. Weigh gain, dragging energy, dry skin and serious brain fog have been plaguing me for so long. I can feel in 1 day that Armour is really helping with my symptoms.
    I didn’t try Armour before but the tablets I took today dissolved very easily. A little pasty but better break-down than the Nature thyroid.

    ps.. i was actually going to go back to Erfa but with all the discrepancies in product quality I thought to just try Armour. I also can get it locally and that’s a plus.
    Hope this helps someone. Aloha~ Daniella

    • Anna


      Are you still on Armour and, if so, how do you feel? How do you take the pills (sublingually, chewing them up, swallowing)?

      How did you feel on Erfa compared to Armour?

      • Karen Gardner

        I just started Erfa (pills from April 2014) cause I had started a new bottle of Armour (probably Actavis) and it wasn’t working. I’ve taken Armour for 15 years but these latest pills are awful. Two hours after taking I get brain fog headaches. Erfa appears to make my body calmer and head is clear. The only problem is now I have a head cold and I don’t feel like I am absorbing well so I drank some salt water and took a probiotic. I got some different Armour pills from the pharmacy and they were bad too. Taking vitamin C for the cold. Hope Erfa continues to work. Refill may be changed formula made in Spain. Any hope of Armour going back to original formula. Karen Gardner. Muffin7973@aol.com

  3. karen

    I have been on Armour Thyroid for several years.I noticed a difference towards the latter end of 2013 that I didn’t feel the same.I felt that something was different about the Armour..it didn’t seem as a ‘clean’ dessicated version which I had been on for quite sometime and I felt I was filling up w/chalk. My doctor kept increasing my dosage to what was an alarming dose for me that I wouldn’t take it because it can affect your heart. I didn’t know the formula had been reformulated until my pharmacist told me. My dosage had gone up and so had the price. I was also concerned about the warning label put on it regarding not to ingest calcium and iron for 4 hours after taking the Armour. My pharmacist warned me about it. I began to have heart palpitations and high blood pressure and my hair began to fall out May,2014. I called my doctor about getting a prescription and he was out so his partner handled it. He was alarmed that I was on such a ‘high’ dosage to the point he said I had too much in my system.I told him my hair was falling out. He believed it may be due to the armour. He cut the dosage in half and rewrote instructions but even then I won’t take the full amount.because I don’t feel right with it. In checking with a friend’s doctor,she won’t prescribe the Armour anymore because she said it will load you up w/filler and actually make you worse-they have put corn filler in it and something else, which I can’t remember. The potency has been affected which requires higher dosage to what you need along with ‘garbage’.
    I’ve been doing everything I can to try and stablyze my thyroid. I mistrust the medical field that i could be given unsuspectingly w/out warning and explanation from my doctor a change in the armour that a friend’s doctor and my pharmacists had to warn me. Once I can afford it I will go to a doctor who specializes in bioidentical hormones as well as a natureopath to balance my thyroid. Until then, I take one armour early in the morning, and make sure I don’t eat anything w/calcium or iron for several hours. I take calcium right before I go bed (works better for you then and you sleep better) w/melatonin as the thyroid requires melatonin and I supplement w/Supreme thyroid which contains vitamins, minerals, and botanicals and (iodine-so needed) to stimulate my thyroid as well as COQ10 to strengthen my heart . I take another armour if needed in the afternoon (according to my body-) .My hair has not grown back but it has been stayed.I do feel more normal, more energy, clear minded but I WANT MY HAIR BACK. I’m just learning about T2 hormone which is not included in any thyroid supplements which another person started taking and she has had excellent results by including that in her system.

  4. Nummer

    I would not use 5-htp since all studies but one shows an increase in TSH from it (as from everything that is upping serotonin). Also prolactine is raised from SSRI, 5-htp and melatonin, which is known to increase hair loss.

    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Nummer, when you look closely at those studies which talks about a raise in TSH by 5-HTP, you also see it’s temporary/sporadic. i.e. it seems to stimulate the pituitary sporadically. There are even reports by some that 5-HTP lowered their TSH! And haven’t heard anyone report hair loss from 5-HTP use, so like anything, if it does occur, it might also be temporary.

  5. Marta

    Hello everyone,


    Can someone recommend a thyroid smart, kind willing doc in Massachusetts?

    I am currently recovering from two hospitalizations for rapid AFIB, and advanced adrenal fatigue which I’m treated with chinese herbs and acupuncture, vit supplements, along with an essentially paleo diet.
    My system has been exhausted for many years. But this year finally totally collapsed. Protocols sunshine and ocean swims help, along with removing all stress triggers but still wake up some days unable to get out of bed. Like today. Chronic inflammation. Everything hurts. Legs feel heavy, feet hurt.
    My mother was hypo..I believe it was root cause of her heart disease. I have long suspected I am hypo thyroid bit TSH always normal. Temp test last time I took it in 94 95 range each time.
    This is a big picture and I believe they’re all related. Depression is a factor, along with anxiety. I need and wantto address thyroid.
    Of course only want top drawer Armour ( the way it used to be and possibly is now again?) or something of equal or greater quality.

    Appreciate any info you can give. I have insurance in MA but realize most true doctors work outside ” the system “.

    Thanks alot and great energy of a teenager to all!!!

  6. Melody

    I saw a brand new dr yesterday and got my first thyroid prescription..for Armour. I am wondering if I should even try it. I sure don’t want the side effects or my hair falling out! It’s so hard to know whom to trust! Can anyone truly confirm Armour is back to the old formulation? Also, does anyone know if Armour has gluten or corn derivatives as fillers? I am waiting for a call from the manufacturer.

    • Janie Bowthorpe

      Melody, there are currently lots of patients who say they are doing fine with Armour. You will just have to raise it high enough to get rid of symptoms. If you find there are any gluten or corn issues though, WP Thyroid may be a better choice. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands

      • Anna

        This is so interesting! Most posts were written a couple of years ago. How have you been doing on Armour since? Those of you who thought it worked better in 2013, are you still on Armour and happy with it? Have subsequent batches been consistent?

        My doctor has patients on as much as 8 grains of Armour daily, so I was wondering if just raising it high enough would make it work better…?

  7. Barbara

    Is this blog relevant for those without a thyroid? If so, where might I find information unique to those of us who have had a thyroidectomy due to radiation theory received as a baby?

  8. Anna

    I don’t know about recent development in this area, but I just tried Armour Thyroid (15, 30, 60, 90, and 120 mg pills), and it does not seem to work at all for me…the pills are awfully chalky; it’s like chewing on wet paper, and they stick to my teeth…I am really disappointed. I allowed myself to get my hopes up, since there are some posts here and there mentioning the possibility of a second reformulation…but this is really not working for me! I am sticking with Erfa; I now have the “new” Erfa (labels are now white/green and white/pink instead of white/blue) but, so far so good…

  9. blan

    alor on subie quoi faire moi sa fait depuit 2012 que je change de marque et celle qui a marchet le mieux pour moi etait armour ancien pour quoi il le change costament

  10. Boni

    I just got a new scrip of Armour thyroid. The pill was like it was before 2009 reformulation. My pharmacist stated that they changed it again. The old Armour had a sweet taste and was hard. This new one I just got is a little bigger than a previous scrip and the other one was softer. I have been on Synthroid /cytomel and I have had so much bad reactions I get very bloated and puffy sometimes my throat gets swollen and food gets stuck in my throat, yet my blood work is right on. I am going to try this new Armour and hope I feel better, I had been on old Armour for 17 yrs before the reformulation .Synthroid is horrible so is Cytomel My dosage is 5 cc of Cytomel and 37.5 mg of Sythroid. My doctor put me on 45 grams of Armour. which I will take tomorrow

  11. Marge

    Its June, 2013. Can anyone tell me their present results using Armour Thyroid again and if it has been re-formulated back to their original formula?!

    • Anna


      I started on Armour in December 2011. I started with 15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 mg pills that I combined and I felt great. I lost a lot of fluid, had more energy, and people around me said that my skin had a new glow (before going on Armour, I had been on thyroxine only for nine years, was retaining a lot of fluid, always looking swollen, and my skin was rather dull).

      No wonder I happily went to the pharmacy with a prescription for 240 mg pills…

      I took them for six months. They felt weak, so I slowly worked my way up to 360 mg daily (one and a half 240 mg pills per day). Labs showed suppressed TSH, midrange free T3 and T4, and several hypo symptoms remained, like fluid retention, cold hands and feet, and inability to lose weight. I asked my doctor for Erfa instead, and I have been doing great on it since April. But now I’m wondering if maybe I should have stuck with Armour and given it another shot? The bottles I had expired in March of this year, so they must have been manufactured some time in early 2011.

      I cannot explain it, only say that the first batches I got worked great, and the second time around the pills (4 grains) did not work nearly as well, and caused several hypo symptoms to return. I have been wondering if I got the old Armour the first time around (in December 2011), but those pills would have been manufactured some time in late 2010 (date of expiry late 2012), so it must have been reformulated pills the first time too…

  12. Catherine

    I’ve read in several forums that Forest HAD to go back to its pre-reformulation formula, as the new version of Armour was never grandfathered in before the FDA came into existence. The only way Forest could keep the new formula on the market would be to submit a New Drug Application, and that would be too expensive so they had to go back to its orignal formula, but did not inform anyone of this. That would be the reason some have found Armour to me more effective lately.

    Also, why would Forest decrease dextrose and add cellulose, known to be indigestible to humans?! It doesn’t make sense.

    • Mela

      To keep sheeple sub-optimally dosed, depressed, ineffectual, & not a threat to their “system’. :/

  13. Christine

    There is a persistent rumor in some forums that Armour was indeed reformulated again in 2010/2011, but only the smaller pills (15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 mg), whereas the bigger pills remain ineffective. Has anyone experienced this? If it’s true, why would Forest only reformulate some pills and not all? Are there so few patients on 240 and 300 mg pills that they are not worth the effort? Nobody seems to know if the 180 mg pills have been reformulated a second time or not.

    Those of you who noticed an improvement in symptoms lately, which strengths are you taking?

  14. Anna

    I see a doctor in Dr. Hertoghe’s practice in Belgium. Just around the corner, there is a pharmacy carrying Erfa and all other drugs prescribed by those so called Top Doctors. The pharmacist pointed her finger in one direction and said: “Down that road is the farm where they breed the pigs whose thyroids are then harvested, freeze-dried and shipped to Canada”…so it seems Janie is right.

  15. RoL

    oh, I am SO confused!! (having brain fog isn’t helping here) The comments are all over the place with conflicting stories.

    I arrived at this post looking for information on how to best take Armour Thyroid. Had most of my thyroid removed a year ago (nodules), and started on Synthroid 2 months after the surgery. This past year’s been hellish. New Endo recently switched me to 90mg of Armour, & I’ve been taking it for about 2-3 weeks. (in the morning with Wellbutrin) Was wondering if I needed to wait to eat for an hour like on Synthroid. Now, I’m wondering if I need to chew or dissolve under tongue??

    My 90mg pills are slightly off-white (NOT stark white), there’s a slight but distinct scent when I open the bottle – mildly gamey, I guess. Manufacturer is listed as FOREST on the bottle. I already took today’s dose, so I don’t want to try crushing a pill, but tomorrow’s dose broke in half fairly easily just using my fingers.

    ANY Advice is appreciated – Help??

    (From Janie: we avoid swallowing our NDT when there might be calcium, iron or estrogen in our stomachs at the same time, or excess fiber–all which can bind the thyroid hormones a bit. That’s it. Otherwise, if pill is soft, you can put it under your tongue. If excessively hard, considering chewing them up before swallowing. Here are great patients groups which can give you good feedback: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/talk-to-others)

    ALSO – regarding 5HTP –
    I used to take it years ago (about 7-8+ yrs ago) with decent success when I got fed-up with side effects of SSRIs. (been dealing with depression for many years, possibly was undiagnosed hypothyroid)
    I found that how I felt varied lots depending on the brand name of the pills. Some seems to have no effect at all, and others were really good. Prices for the better brands went way up and I wanted to get preggers, so I went back to a doc & he put me on Wellbutrin which helped. Then, I had 2 babies & nursed them and have been afraid to switch back since, especially with these other issues post-thyroidectomy.
    SO – my advice is to use caution – pick better brands of 5htp.

  16. Leigha

    01/17/2013 Ahwatukee Arizona
    Hi my last 2 batches of Armour from 12/12 and 1/13 have been awful!! Some of my symptoms are back. But batches from 10/12 and 11/12 were the old formulation and they disvolved like the old ones with the odor. What gives??? I’m desperate to get more of the old armour that disolves and stinks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

  17. Stephanie

    Hmm, anecdote is not science. In the absence of a significant number of people reporting a similar experience, I can’t say I have the answer. It could be a change in the synthetic T4 I also take. Or a decreased need for thyroid hormone due to better diet and significant weight loss.

    (From Janie: And “science” is frequently flawed, which is why patients have been forced to go by their combined experiences, and which has successfully changed lives FAR more than “science”.)

  18. Stephanie

    Is there any new information about a possible return to the pre-2009 Armour formulation? On a constant dose I went from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid symptoms over a period of about eight weeks from August to early November ’12 (pulse rate and blood pressure went from extremely low to medium high). Thanks.

    (From Janie: The answer is in what happened to you. 🙂 )

  19. Anna

    Those of you who have switched to Erfa, do you continue to take the same dosage as you did with Armour? I was on 5 grains of Armour which is 190 mcg of T4 and 45 mcg of T3. 5 grains of Erfa is either 181 mcg T4 (if I take 2×125 + 60 mg) or 175 mcg (if I take 5×60 mg), plus 42 or 40 mcg of T3 depending on the strength of the pills. This is not a big difference, but could it be a problem? I’ve been thinking about replacing 5 grains of Armour with 5.5 grains of Erfa, but some say Erfa is stronger and others say it’s weaker…

    I’d appreciate any advice from those of you who have made that switch!

  20. halina

    TJ my doctor is from tunkhannock PA , you can find more about him at hormonerestoration.com The office is about two hours from Syracuse. Good luck

  21. Erika

    Ok….. I noticed last month that my pills were slighty soft and easier to chew…. but didn’t think anything of it. However, in the last 3 weeks, I am losing MASSIVE amounts of my waist length long blond hair, it is coming out in handfulls every time I TOUCH my hair, and is half as thick with stringy ends now – I’m resorting to keeping it in buns all day to try to save more from falling out. Washing once a week, and barely brushing.

    In addition, the last month my depression has returned with the force of a dark storm rolling across the sunny plains of my life.

    I suspect… and I could be wrong… but I think Armour has reformulated AGAIN and not told us. I am literally sobbing over my hair, which had grown in long and thick again over the last year and is now destroyed. Is anyone else noticing this? Now I have to get in to check blood and see what is going on. Is there any suggestions for my hair?

  22. jaime c.

    Starting early part of this year i noticed my bottle of armour had that familiar smell as it did 6 years ago wheni first started taking it, and much softer and can be easily broken again. Well, after being forced to swallow it for the last few years due to the crappy reformulation with the cellulose, back in july i decided to try doing it sublingual again, and guess what? It worked! I am now back to taking in 3 small doses a day, (i’ve been on 4 grains and am now thinking i may not even need as much) I get my armour from walgreen’s pharmacy in lackawanna, new york, and made in forest labs. I PRAY they are done with their meddling!

  23. TJ

    @ MJ….
    i live in Syracuse and am desperately seeking a doctor who knows about adrenal issues and also uses Armour for thyroid. May I ask who you see? I cannot find anyone here! Thank you!!

  24. Stephanie

    As a longtime hypothyroid patient unable to locate a natural thyroid-savvy doctor, I’ve long resorted to scouring the Net for articles on my condition (Hashimoto’s). Further, I’m attempting to connect the dots between my lifelong struggle with weight, estrogen dominance and hypothyroidism. I ran across Ray Peat today and see that he has some strong cautions against tryptophan, 5-HTP and boosting serotonin in general.


    I’ve had periodic depression and sleeplessness over the years. For several years I took 5-10 mg of melatonin at night – but recently went back to 5-HTP (50 mg).

    The first half of this year, I successfully lost about 30 lbs and was doing really well. Suddenly I’m regaining at an alarming rate. I honestly wonder if the 5-HTP can be to blame? Perhaps it’s suppressing or counteracting my thyroid meds?

    I’m currently taking 90 mg of Acella natural thyroid daily. My TSH tends to run between .05 and 1.13 over the past 8 months. Yeah, that’s all my doctor tests for normally 🙁

    I’d love to know your thoughts on this. Loved your original book by the way, and delighted to see you have published a new version!

    (From Janie: my thoughts are that there are a variety of opinions all over the net, even ones that go against what Peat said. Moderation is the key for me. This is not meant to be for a lifetime. And you definitely should get the new revised version. Many things have changed or are updated about patient experience; and some thing are the same, such as the efficacy of NDT. 🙂 http://www.laughinggrapepublishing.com)

  25. Susan

    My 90mg Armour is soft and chalky, while my 60mg Armour is harder. Thoughts?

  26. Cat

    I’m from the same region and having trouble finding someone who is willing to prescribe anything besides Synthroid. Any recommendations on a doc or practice?

  27. Andy

    With the fiasco created by Forest Labs in 2009 I switched to the Erfa brand and have been getting it by mail out of Canada ever since via prescription. Those websites are easy to use, you(or your doctor’s office) just need to fax over a copy of your perscription, and then call in your refills. Works great, get it within a week of ordering it and they actually give me a call about a month before it is due! Whether Forest Labs has gone back to their original formula for Armour or not, will not try them ever again! What they did by changing that formula to basically a sugar pill in my mind was criminal……..

    • Audrey

      Did you have any initial problems adjusting to the Erfa? Did you raise or lower your dose relative to the Armour dose you had been taking?

  28. Anna O'Connell

    I would like to say that thyroid powder that is supplied to all pharmaceutical companys in the US & Canada is from a lab in Omaha. How can Armour be the same meds if it is now freeze-dried by this company. They process the powder differently, and therefore, not as potent and useful as it use to be.
    It works, however, it’s not the same by far.
    I do NOT believe that this so called “New Armour” is the same as it use to be, as much as I want to believe it. It will not be until the powder is processed the way it was in 2004.
    Sorry for the bad news, I thought most people knew about this by now. Thank you Mr. Trump for your concerns! I hope you can look into this info I am giving you.

    (From Janie: Canada’s Erfa comes from Belgium, not the US facility. And it’s always been freeze-dried.)

  29. John

    I have tried 5 htp for sleep and found it did not work for me.
    I switched to L-Tryptophan and it work better for sleep.

    Tryptophan is the precursor to 5HTP and it crosses the blood brain barrier better than 5-HTP.
    I have read that a ratio of 5:1 is used to help find an equivalent dose. For example, 1,000mg of Tryptophan is equivalent ot 200mg of 5HTP.

    From http://www.livestrong.com/article/447751-tryptophan-versus-5-htp/: “While L-tryptophan can be metabolized into a variety of different chemicals within the body, 5-HTP can only be used for the production of serotonin. Consequently, 5-HTP is faster acting than L-tryptophan, potentially making it more suitable for the treatment of insomnia. Its effects, however, are shorter lasting than L-tryptophan, perhaps making it less suitable for the treatment of depression.” I, Janie, found 5-HTP to very effectively treat my depression, tho. 🙂

  30. Armour Newbie

    I just started Armour this week, and the tablets (at least the 1/2 grain) are so soft they can be used sublingually. There’s just a slight gamy smell/taste. I’m very happy with it.

  31. Kim

    OK, hold the horses!! I guess the reason my pills were sweeter then the last batch is because my pharmacy substituted with Acella! I just figured that out. This is the first time my temps have been stable since starting thyroid medication & I have way more energy. Sticking with this for awhile!

  32. Armour Rules

    Mine’s still the old, hard chewy kind…will be interesting to see if the new ones will be soft. Maybe they actually LISTENED to all our comments?….Nah!
    Now, Kim’s comments about temp. instability are interesting. Mine been a bit labile too, but then I’m still titrating. Been on 4.5gr, just switched to 5.0. Maybe I’ll just use my Thiroyd for awhile, seems what happens. Doesn’t seem to be ANY possible absorption issues with the Thiroyd.

  33. Christine


    I am doing fine on Armour (ver2) so far. I take 270 mg or 4.5 grains daily and that seems to be just right for me.

  34. Kim

    Dee, now you have me wondering… Since I started tracking my temps the end of May they have been all over the place. I was just losing heart, thinking I may have an adrenal problem, when all of a sudden about a week ago my temps started getting super even. Like someone flipped a switch. I was hoping that maybe I was nearing an optimal dose, but now I am wondering if it is because my new bottle of Armour is different. My temps got way more stable just after I started the “sweeter” pills.

  35. julianna

    I just switched to armour from naturthroid, I do not kno wwhat the tablets were like prior too but they seem soft. I am still suffering with the sleep issues,pain and sensitvity to things,irritability etc.Has anyone found 5htp has helped these sysmptoms for them?when and how is the best way to take it.


  36. Dee

    Besides noticing a possible change in the hardness or softness of the tablets, has anyone noticed a change in efficacy? That is the real issue.

    Pls. keep us updated! I have not done well on anything since the old Armour was withdrawn.

  37. Kim

    I was on a starting dose of Armour (1/4 gr 2 times a day) for 5 1/2 months! I have had huge problems as a result. I figured out what was going on from reading around this wonderful website, left my dr, and have been treating with a wonderful DO since April. She is raising my dose every two weeks until (hopefully) symptoms go away. She just changed my prescription from 1/4 gr to 1/2 gr so I didn’t have to use so many pills. I noticed an immediate difference in the taste of the 1/2 gr. It is very sweet, almost like a sugar cube, compared to the more bitter tasting 1/4 gr. I remembered reading something about the sweet taste of the old formula, so I tried to let the 1/2 gr dissolve under my tongue. It is softer than the 1/4 gr for sure, but it also did not seem to dissolve. I’m still chewing them up. I am in Owensboro, KY and use Walgreens

    • Sheryl

      Who is your physician? I have been looking for a different treatment option for Hashimatos and finding a physician to prescribe Armour is difficult. I am near you in Madisonville, KY.

  38. Becky Sue

    Correction, although may be the same, my bottle says “FOREST PHARM”

  39. Christine

    I have a batch of Armour with date of expiry 01/13. I guess that cannot have been manufactured before the 2009 reformualtion? If I’m not mistaken, NDT drugs are said to be good for two years after the date of manufacture, so that means mine was manufactured sometime in late 2010/early 2011. Anyway, I’ve never had a problem with it; I started chewing the pills up because I had read many posts on the importance of breaking down the cellulose before swallowing the pills, but it broke down so quickly in my mouth that I decided to try and do it sublingually instead. It dissolvs quickly and nicely and all symptoms are gone 🙂 I just hope that Forest doesn’t reformulate Armour again…

  40. Becky Sue

    I have been taking mine from Forest Labs for several months now – always been soft. Now I understand why my sister (who also has hypo) was chewing hers! I stopped doing it because it was so soft and stuck in my teeth.

  41. MJ

    @Tami – I got it at Wegmans in Clay. As a side note, my doc did not write DAW, so they were going to give me Acella NP Thyroid, which I was fine with, but they said they were out of stock and it would take a few days. They then offered me the brand, Armour, and said they had “lots of it” – I had already started that and said yes, although I was a little worried it was old. So far so good, though!
    @Janie – thanks for the feedback. I’m going to take it that way since it seems to dissolve well and I agree that it absorbs better.

    • Susan

      Would uou recommend a Dr in Syracuse who will prescribe?

  42. Tami

    @MJ-Which pharmacy in Syracuse did you find it at if you don’t mind me asking? I’m going to be there next month and would like to get some.

  43. Alison

    Be careful with the 5HTP. Increasing serotonin levels can lead to a decline in dopamine (and a return in depressive symptoms). That being said, after 10 years on SSRIs, I would have never guessed that I’d experience better results by simply using 5HTP and NDT!

  44. Donna

    I get my Armour from our mail order pharmacy, Express Scripts. I have noticed the last 2 bottles in the last 6 months I’ve received are much softer & easily broken.

  45. Kathleen

    I use only Forest Labs Armour,the original manufacturer. I’ve had to be very specific with my pharmacy because no matter what,the insurance companies will try and slip you a less expensive substitute.

    I have never found this particular formulation to be coated with a cellulose material and I have taken it for over 2 years. I find it to be a chalky dry pill that dissolves easily.

    I live in California in the San Jose area and find that Walgreen’s can get it but as mentioned, I needed to ask specifically for Armour from Forest Labs. My Co Pay doesn’t even seem to be higher as it can sometimes when you ask for a non generic.

  46. Johann

    I had occasion to break an Armor Thyroid pill in half the other day, and was dreading it because I’ve done it before, and they’re so HARD. To my surprise, it broke cleanly in half with very little pressure. I’m guessing that I’ve gotten one of the new batches. And my doctor wrote the prescription for three months, and I’m right at the end of the prescription, so I got it about three months ago.

    If you’re looking for regional information, I live in Northern Virginia, not far from Washington, DC. I hope this helps.

  47. MJ

    I just started on Armour after being on levothyroxine for 2 years. I had a baby last November and wanted to switch over during my pregnancy early last year and was told by my endo that it was unsafe to do so… Anyhow, I got a supply from Medco mail order pharmacy and I chewed them and they seemed pretty hard and took forever to dissolve. The doc also called in a prescription to a local pharmacy here in upstate NY near Syracuse and I tried those sublingual and they dissolve within a few minutes! There isn’t any sweetness at all, but sublingual is much better than chewing it up and getting stuck in your teeth. Not the best taste, either. I have been searching the web for comments about whether Armour had gone back to its old formula and then got your newsletter, so I’m not crazy after all! I’m on a starting dose, so who knows what the next prescription will bring.

    (From Janie: re your second paragraph–we all have enzymes in our saliva that breaks large molecules down to small.)

    On a related note, my searches led me to a few articles stating that the molecules in NDT are too large to be absorbed by the sublingual gland and almost all is swallowed anyway. What do you think of that? I’ll find it again and post the link if anyone is interested. Thanks for this site, Janie! I just received your book in the mail and am busily reading!


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