Recalls include NP Thyroid by Acella Pharmaceuticals and both Naturethroid and WP Thyroid by RLC Labs
Hello everyone. I’ve been delayed in getting this important blog post done about recent recalls because my dear husband has had some serious health issues off and on for two months. And we are still dealing with them. But I had a recent chance to churn out this blog post. Read the information below, and then you will see questions that I hope some of you can research and post about. ~Janie, hypothyroid patient and site creator
Let’s start with the facts: 2020 has seen three (!!) American-made natural desiccated thyroid recalls. And this outcome fits what a certain body of patients have been reporting as far as new problems they encountered on these three products.
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The voluntary recall of NP Thyroid by Acella Pharmaceuticals, LLC
ABOUT ACELLA and NP THYROID: Acella Pharmaceuticals, LLC is a specialty pharmaceutical company. Its desiccated thyroid called NP Thyroid came out around 2010. NP had always received good reviews via patient comments in various groups, including the Stop the Thyroid Madness Facebook page. Patients have often happily compared it to the older Armour, i.e. it had a sweet taste and could be placed under the tongue. Success with it seemed to be high as long as patients had good iron and cortisol, and got their frees optimal
PATIENT REPORTS BEFORE THE RECALL: A few concerning reports started coming in by a body of patients in the Summer of 2019. My own husband was one of several who saw symptoms come back. One big one was fatigue in the late afternoons, which is a common hypothyroid symptom. But more negative reports strongly picked up in the Fall of 2019 that NP had changed. Patients who had done quite well on it were now experiencing problems. Reported were that hypothyroid symptoms came back, and/or lab results had gone downhill. Patients also reported a “cat pee” or “kitty litter” smell (even after a 2020 coating). Some reported that NP burned their esophagus’ or stomachs. During this time, Acella stated to patients that they were getting their porcine powder from Europe (similar to what Erfa of Canada stated a few years previous).
THE RECALL: The first official FDA-announced recall was announced May, 2020. It referred to super potency for the 30mg, 60mg and 90mg tablets. I can’t find it at the moment, but the Acella website stated this recall was about NP made in late 2018. ***Another recall announcement in September 2020 refers to the 15mg and 120 mg tablets, AND THIS TIME, referring to sub-potency. Sub-potency seems to fit what patients have been reporting for a year now. as far as return of symptoms
MORE INFORMATION TO READ (also do a search for “NP Thyroid recall”):
The voluntary recalls of Naturethroid and WP Thyroid by RLC Labs, Inc
ABOUT RLC LABS and ITS TWO DESICCATED THYROID PRODUCTS: RLC Labs cites an 80-year history, which is impressive, with a dedication in “improving the lives of others and will continue to be at the forefront in the field of hypothyroid treatment”. Their two main desiccated thyroid products are in the heading and had always been popular with, and appreciated by, patients.
PATIENT REPORTS BEFORE THE RECALLS: A body of patient reports of problems with Naturethroid first seemed to start in 2018 in various social media thyroid groups. This was after RLC’s two desiccated thyroid products had somewhat disappeared from pharmacies for awhile starting in 2017, then came back out. Example of reported problems once Naturethroid came back out ranged from a return of hypothyroid symptoms, and/or labs that went south or became odd, and/or the inability to raise it enough to remove returning symptoms. Negative patient reports about WP Thyroid came in more slowly and referred to similar problems.
THE RECALL: On August 25th, 2020, RLC announced the recall of both of their desiccated thyroid products due to sub-potency. This recall includes a total of 483 lots of both Naturethroid and WP Thyroid in all strengths and within current expiration on consumer levels. RLC stated these products contained less than 90% of the labeled amount of liothyronine or levothryroxine (please note that though pharmacies use the implied synthetic names for T3 and T4 there, desiccated thyroid is NOT synthetic)
Here’s the official September, 2020 FDA announcement of this recall.
MORE INFORMATION TO READ (also do a search for “Naturethroid recall” or “WP Thyroid recall”):
- UPDATE: AND NOW A LAWSUIT: You can read about it here.
What have hypothyroid patients been moving over to
From many patient reports, and in spite of changes in the past, Armour desiccated thyroid has still worked well, say patients in a variety of groups. This has been especially true, say patients, if they get their free T3 and free T4 optimal, and have the right amount of iron and cortisol to do so. Sadly, it’s not the soft, sweet NDT it used to be, which patients loved. But it is working, say many patients. Please share this with your doctor.
Patients are also reporting doing well on both synthetic T4 and synthetic T3, and getting optimal. The same holds true with T3 alone if one gets an optimal free T3. For those using both T4 and T3, we can compare to what is in one grain of many desiccated thyroid products: about 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. So for two grains, it would be 76 mcg T4 and 18 mcg T3. And etc.
There are over-the-counter bovine thyroid products to try after these recalls. Just pay attention to whether some are driving RT3 high (studies show that when cows are slaughtered during certain seasons, their RT3 amount can be higher) or watch out for bad batches as revealed by labs going south. This would be good info to share with your doctor. PLEASE NOTE: I have seen too many posts which are basically advertising for an OTC product. I won’t approve those comments.
So far, it appears Australians are lucky, as their prescription based, compounded NDT seems fine. The same may be true of some European-based brands. If there are others, please comment below.
2021 UPDATE ON ARMOUR: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2021/07/06/is-armour-working-or-not/
Readers, if you can find solid information on each of these questions, and hopefully with links, post the info as a comment.
- THE AMERICAN SOURCE OF PORCINE POWDER: What happened to the US source of porcine powder from American Laboratories in Omaha, Nebraska, and on which patients seemed to do well on? Why did it stop being available, forcing new sources of porcine powder for some pharmaceuticals?
- PHARMACEUTICAL SECRETS: Why is there not more transparency from pharmaceuticals for a medication we depend on for our very lives?
- A “EUROPEAN” SOURCE OF PORCINE POWDER: Why, when two pharmaceuticals have admitted to moving to a “European” source of porcine powder (Acella and Erfa in Canada), are WE not allowed to know WHAT European source? Where are OUR rights as consumers of this important medication?
- THE CAT PEE/AMMONIA SMELL OF PORCINE POWDER: Why are so many porcine powder products today now having a “cat pee” or “ammonia-like” smell…when they didn’t used to have this smell?? That even includes some compounded desiccated thyroid products!
- DOCTORS AND T3: Why, as a certain body of hypothyroid patients are changing to synthetic T4 with synthetic T3, do we have to deal with doctors who are deathly afraid of T3? Do they forget that a healthy thyroid also releases direct T3? So the big question is: WHAT is going on in their medical school training and continuing education that makes practitioners so pitiful in their understanding of the use of direct T3?
I want to invite YOU, the reader, to do some research and comment on these questions since I am bit occupied with my husband and his health issues right now. BUT I WILL NOT APPROVE EMPTY CONSPIRACY COMMENTS (such as “Big Pharma is trying to take away our desiccated thyroid.”). What has happened to us, then these recalls, is concerning, but not necessarily an evil plot!
Or you can comment on your personal experiences with these recalled products. Some weren’t noticing problems, but they later came back and said they were. Others seemed to report problems from the get-go.
Write a new comment below
521 Responses to “2020: the Year of Desiccated Thyroid Recalls”
Just wondering if the issues with NP Thyroid are still problematic or if anything was corrected. Also, ,what is the most consistent NDT at this point in time, May 2022.
We are hearing two sides: some doing quite well on NP with labs to prove it. Others…not so sure. But for the the “others”, it could be problems due to being underdosed and never understanding this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Time will tell.
I am flummoxed. I’ve been taking NDT since 2006, and what an – adventure? – it’s been. First, in 2008, the mysterious problems with Armour, which made me switch to NatureThroid. Then, NatureThroid had problems, and I switched to NP Thyroid.
NOW, after several reasonably OK years on NP Thyroid (though, frankly, the Covid-19 Pandemic has had such an unexpectedly intense psychological impact on me, together with having to care for my now 90-year-old mentally ill mother, who is increasingly affected by dementia, it’s hard to know if these past several years have been really OK, or just positively bizarre!! LOL), I just had my blood tested, and my free T4 and free T3 are farther below the reference range than I’ve ever seen! My jaw dropped, when I saw my FT4 at 0.58. Good gawd!
I wonder if it’s the NP Thyroid, or if my thyroid capacity is just deteriorating as I age? Or is the Hashi’s making things worse? My CBC/Chem also showed low calcium, which made me wonder about my parathyroid function, too.
I want to have my blood re-run at a different lab for the sake of comparison, but I’m wondering what other tests I should have run, to help pinpoint the problem here? I am definitely having the parathyroid tested, and calcium, phosphorus & magnesium levels (Vit D came out at low end of normal range). I am just rather perplexed.
In the past, I supplemented NDT with Unithroid, which seemed to work, so I’m heading in that direction, again, I think, preliminarily. NOTE: I use Unithroid because, as far as I know, when the makers of synthetic levothyroxine were first asked by the FDA to submit to FDA rules, Unithroid was the first one to comply without balking, while the Synthroid people had fits of indignation. So I opt for Unithroid because of its apparently superior ethics. 🙂
Leigh, how much NP have you been on? Because we need rule out all possibilities. And one is being underdosed, thus not having optimal free T4 and free T3. Let us know how much you’ve been on, what your frees were with ranges, and your RT3.
OK – that’s ancient history, insofar as I didn’t have any blood run since before the pandemic, so it’s been a while. I do remember (vaguely) that no RT3 was found (I think?). Will look up info. Thanks for getting back to me! 🙂
I’m not the fastest bear in the forest???????? – sorry, it took a while to get back to you, Janie. I’m taking 90 mg NP Thyroid, now plus 25 mcg Unithroid. I’m feeling no better, in fact, lately, I’m feeling even worse, more sluggish weak.
Made me wonder: am I taking so much exogenous thyroid hormone that now I’m pushing myself into artificial hypothyroidism? I have read there is such a thing as “too much of a good thing” with hypothyroid med, which can make you feel weak & sluggish.
Last time tested, March 21, 2022:
FT4 0.58 ng/dL
Standard Range 0.78 – 2.19 ng/dL
FT3 1.7 pg/mL
Standard Range 2.0 – 4.4 pg/mL
Did not test RT3 – will do so this week.
I have *never* been able to get my FT3 “optimal,” much less even within range – it always comes back below range, regardless the FT4 result, going all the way back to 2006, when first dx’ed, I believe – if not all the way back, at least for enough years that I’ve become accustomed to seeing it, and hoping with the next elevation of my dose, that low FT3 would resolve. Nope.
My DHEA came in slightly below range, so I bought a 25 mcg DHEA supplement, but (eyeroll!????) I’ve forgotten to take it!???? I just want to read up on how DHEA has potential to interact with these other hormones. I’ve read it can make people jittery, ugh. Are you familiar with it? (I’ll search here.)
Additionally, because of post-menopausal vaginal stricture & dryness, and hot flashes that returned after 10 years because of a bout of Lyme Disease????(believe it or not!), I’m anticipating starting low-dose HRT – which I’ve read also can depress T4 levels. Oy! It’s always something!!!????
Sigh. I Imagine I should have B vitamins tested. I don’t know if I should also be testing pituitary, adrenals, whatever – I just must say: I’m certainly sick & tired of being sick & tired. I’ve got laundry???? to do, for goodness sake!!!???? Not to mention – vacuuming!????????????
P.S. I hope your husband is doing better. My late fiance was a Viet Nam vet, but he always joked that he enlisted at age 18 at the height of the Viet Nam War to get some peace. His mother was a wild Irish drunk, and made his life… very, um… uncomfortable.???? I don’t know how Agent Orange Syndrome is treated, but I certainly hope by now medicine has come up with a good lot of interventions to make your husband comfortable and able to enjoy the little things that make life good (for me: a fat cat to hug, and fresh coffee with heavy cream?? first thing!)????????
[What happened to my funny little emojis?????]
Hi Leigh. You aren’t feeling better because you have not come close to achieving this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Especially with the free T3. 90 mg never achieves it. And it IS possible to achieve it if you raise and raise again. Testing RT3 is also important. Sadly, the love of my life died last October 15th due to his Agent Orange exposure. 🙁
Janie, I am so sorry to hear about your husband’s death! That’s so hard. I just kept talking to Dennis’s photograph for years to cope with his absence. I caution you to grieve all you want and need, for your health: one friend characterized grief as “learning to live again.” I found it to be true, that I had to learn who I am and how to live my days and create new routines. And I am particularly aware of this dynamic right now because a friend just lost her husband of 25 years, and while I was telling her to take her time to grieve and readjust, other friends were telling her “buck up!” “get over it!” and so she did–and this totally healthy woman has ended up in the hospital for freak accidents twice in 18 months. Heartbreak needs to be expressed.
About the 90 mg of NP — I thought that might be low, but then again, I’d read that the average thyroid patient takes about 150 mcg/day, so 90 mg does convert to 150 mcg…? On the other hand, I was looking for a specific NDT dosage on that “optimal” page that I’ve read through several times, but didn’t see one. Would I need to supplement my T3 with a synthetic, even taking full-spectrum NDT? Is it possible to determine if I have a hard time converting T4 to T3? Is there a test for that?
Thanks for your kind words, Leigh. And no words of caution needed. I thankfully have the wisdom to know to grieve when I need to grieve. No holds barred. He was the love of my life. And I’ve become well-versed in all this as I travel this very challenging journey. Have local grief groups, read a lot, and I’m even writing about it. And that is awful when family or friends tell a widow to buck up or get over it. They clearly have no clue that grief doesn’t have a self-imposed ending.
There is no average amount of NDT. Whoever said that is wrong. I see too many group owner make things up to build their ego or low self-esteem. People can be all over the board in the amount that makes their frees optimal. But we do know, since STTM is about 20 years of patient reported experiences and observations, and not egos or opinions, that 90 mg or less hardly ever achieves optimal. It’s even rare that 2 grains does, but there can be an odd duck out there.
I posted in Sept 2020 after the recall of Naturethroid that I was going to compounded T3/T4 as the unreliability/inconsistency of NDTs due to the natural product just wasn’t something I wanted to deal with anymore. At the exact same time of the recall, I came well into perimenopause, while dealing with the pandemic anxiety, and starting a new very large executive level advertising job managing a team of 120 people. Every aspect of those challenges has improved 1000% since that time, but it has been a LONG SLOW process to get back on track with the thyroid. And I’m still not optimal. I’ve upped the dosage now 7 times since Sept 2020 due to not being able to tolerate the increases and having to do it in micro steps. Surprisingly, there have been a couple times the TSH numbers have regressed despite another dose increase. T3 and T4 numbers have been steady since the get go. I’ve finally solved the process to increase. For two weeks I alternate the increased dosage every other day, then on the third week go to the full new dose. That prevents the anxiety return and too much action in the digestion. I have been feeling quite good, mostly measured by ability to concentrate at this point, and was shocked to get my results back and see my TSH dropped from 1.8 last time to 2.8 after another dose increase. The does I’m taking now is finally the equivalent of what i took on Naturethroid 16 months ago. I’m sharing this to help set people’s expectations that shifting off of NDTs to T3/T4 compound is hard, but my Doctor and I decided it would be more reliable in the long run, despite the effort to get where we need it to go.
Hello, I was places on NP Thyroid 6 months ago because of the Nature-Throid recall. I’m not doing well on this brand. My symptoms include insomnia, chest tightness & anxiety. I reached out to a cardiologists because I thought I had cardiac issues & he did a stress test, which I passed. I’ve since halved my dose & the cardiac symptoms have abated, however I’m still sleeping horribly. For instance, last night I went to bed at 10pm, woke at 1 am & it was a night of naps till 6am when I had to get up for work. Ugh! Needless to say 6 months of sleep deprivation is taking a toll on just about every aspect of my life. Backing up, my most recent TSH before lowering my dose of NP Thyroid was 0.38, which the lab values are 0.35-5.50. I’d always ran anywhere from 0.67-2.1. A little history on me is I had a partial thyroidectomy in 2010 & have a pituitary prolactinoma which I take cabergoline for. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Any suggestions? I’m considering requesting my doctor try me on just cytomel…
Hi. Based on 20 years of reported experiences, it sounds like you now have a cortisol problem. That can happen from never having been optimal on the NP thyroid, which is important. It’s never about the TSH. Optimal puts the free T3 in the very top area of the range and free T4 around mid range. That optimal result would even be needed on T4/T3 or Armour. This explains: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
It may now be impossible To get optimal due to what may be a cortisol problem. The right amount of cortisol is needed to distribute thyroid to the cells. And when cortisol is off, T3 tends to go super high in the blood.
This is a saliva cortisol test we order and do: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ Then we compare the results to what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
More information on the adrenals here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Janie, I wonder if you can also look into and address the importance of Thiamine? Please look into the writings of Dr Derrick Lonsdale, who is an expert in this area (you can find his posts on the site hormonesmatter.com). There are many posts about thiamine and how it affects every aspect of our health. Perhaps thiamine would benefit CJ Stevens as well. And note that Dr Lonsdale always recommends extra thiamine be taken in addition to a good B-Complex and 200-300mg of magnesium per day.
Jenny, here’s the deal: I already know about his B1 emphasis. 🙂 And there is good information out there about B1’s benefits. But that doesn’t mean that every problem equals low B1. And we can need more than “one single treatment” to change a particular problem. But luckily, at least B1 will excreted if too much is taken. You just have to watch out for digestive issues.
Could anyone recommend a compounding pharmacy that specializes in thyroid compounding? Erfa appears to be reformulated, it looks different, smells and tastes horrible. I would like to try compounding, but understand that it needs to be done by highly skilled pharmacists. Any recommendations? Thank you!!
On a positive note.
I have been using Acella NP 90 mg for over 3 years and have NEVER received a bad batch and I test them before I pay for them. My pharmacy here in Arizona is CVS and they have also never received any of the recalled batches. I always get the batch number just to be sure. STTM has helped me so much with information and I feel lucky that the NP still works for me with no return of symptoms. It is easy to take and I do half in am and half in afternoon under tongue. Works for me. Keeping fingers crossed!!
Are your frees optimal on only 90 mg? It’s very rare to see it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Does it smell/taste bad?
Hi Amber! I also live in Mesa AZ & have had trouble finding a practitioner to focus on the thyroid. Can you share what NP you go to? I would really appreciate knowing. Thank you!
Janie Bowthorpe, I noticed that you mention that everyone is doing fine on Armour. I have switched to Armour in April after NP Thyroid and keep gaining weight and need mid afternoon naps more frequently. My hormones are within range. No RT3 issues. Only sugar is going up which usually happens to me when thyroid hormones stop working. Any suggestions? Should I try switching to T4/T3 combo?
Hi Sasha. Let me clarify that I have never said that “everyone” is doing fine. Patient reports are never black and white. Just as it’s also false that “all” are doing lousy on it. Instead, what I’ve noticed, as have those who report back to me, is that “many” are still doing quite well on it. And it does sound like you were underdosed on Armour if you had weight gain and midafternoon naps. Lab results have nothing to do with just being within range. this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Finally relocated my integrative doctor who left a nice facility in Baltimore, MD for a different facility in Columbia, MD. She did quite an extensive blood test of which I will just type the Thyroid panel. The facility turned out to be a scam, in my opinion, even reading some reviews who thought so, too. Her fee is now $340 for an hour meeting to discuss the lab results and another $200 just to call in a change for my thyroid meds script. She never told me there would be another charge to change it or to just call it in ! I left her which is a shame because where she was before we really connected to the point of exchanging hugs after each appt. Here they are: TSH – 0.02, Free T4 – 1.91, Free T3 – 5.3, Rev T3 – 33.9. She did not test for Rev T4. I called my pharmacist as suggested on your blog to find another integrative dr. in my area. He suggested one and he also does not take insurance but my health and feeling good is paramount. He was very highly recommended by my current pharmacist who is stellar, personable and so easy to talk to. I will have my pharmacist for life !! and he is right around the corner from where I live. It is a compounding pharmacy to boot ! I am calling the new integrative doctor this AM.
No rush on responding but I thought I would share my most recent results of 4, 26, 21. I am also leaving my current PCP who refuses to call in an increase in my thyroid meds according to the last integrative dr. She stated the current results are ok, she does not know how to convert mathematically and actually too low of a TSH. Whatever…Had a long conversation with my pharmacist, Patrick, and he stated these PCP drs live in fear when it comes to compounded pharmacies and recommending compounding meds in fear of losing their license. I will just have to pay out of pocket now but I AM WORTH IT !!!
Take care and hope you and hubby are doing well.
Wait, that doctor wanted to charge you $200 for her to call in a change of a prescription script??
Yes, doctors do live in fear of what would happen to them for doing what is actually right for us. But in spite of that, there are some out there who bypass their fears and do what’s right anyway. We just have to work to find them.
By the way, based on us having looked at lab work for nearly 20 years now, you’re frees imply you are overdosed. In fact, I’m guessing you’re free T4 is over range and that’s what’s causing the rt3 to go up in your body’s attempt to clear out the excess T4.
Thanks Janie for responding. That lawsuit could take years to resolve. If only, if only…
Seems it’s always about ” the profits.”
Take care, hope you both are well.
My doctor, which is supposed to be an integrative type and was recommended by The Broda Barnes Institute, will not prescribe higher than 32.5 mgs x 3 a day as in the recalled Nature-Throid or 30 mgs. x 3 of now recalled NP Thyroid. My TSH is always low and last time was .008 which is below lab range, and he always says that is because I am getting TOO much thyroid, however, I have read several of the Stop the Thyroid Madness books and I know that can be normal having had a total thyroidectomy over 10 years ago. (My T3, Free is 3.5 but Reverse T3 seems low at 10.9 with a 1.10 T4 free on last labs). Symptoms include joint pain, low mood, brain fog, dry nails and hair among others. Do you have a recommendation for a doctor in the Atlanta area which follows your protocol?
I know I keep asking this but any news out there on the status of RLC Labs which is owned by Rick L Cox, hence RLC Labs. Lives in Arizona, in the US. Has been talk the FDA shut down the lab. Anyone know of that or heard anything if that is true ?.. did soooo well on WP…ugh….
Take care everybody…
Hi Joanne. It appears that mum is the word from RLC. But we did read that there’s a major lawsuit against them, so maybe that’s why there’s been no action? We can only guess.
I guess there was another recall on NP yesterday and I’m on another Facebook page where people are saying Armour stopped working. Has anyone been on Armour only (no T3) for the last 6 months and has optimal labs?
Lynn, there are many, many, many people reporting doing well on Armour.
And here you go: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2021/04/30/np-thyroid-by-acella-has-once-again-been-recalled/
I just got a call from my pharmacy stating there has been a recall and should stop taking it too. They didn’t say what I should take instead. I’ve noticed that it has had a funny (stinky) taste for the past few months. 🙁
I have been on Armour about 8 months, I switched to it from Nature. Years ago Armour worked fine for me. Now it is terrible. I have horrible hypothyroid symptoms all the time. I have so cold, weight gain, I have to take naps, fatigue is horrible. To prove it I took blood tests and even if my dose is quite high, my blood levels show severe hypothyroidism! How is it possible?? There is something wrong with Armour now as well. I have to write to my doctor and change to something else, I don’t know what to do anymore.
Ninni, Armour has been working fine for the majority. Your problem may be that you’ve never been optimal on it. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Or if you are from the western part of Europe, you could have thyroid hormone resistance, which calls for quite high amounts to get optimal. Not all from western Europe have this resistance, but some do.
We had to switch to armor after the naturethroid disaster and recall. Been on it for over a year. Something has changed because it doesn’t appear to be working. T4 and T3 are low, and it is causing nausea. What can we do? Synthroid never worked hence we were put on Naturethroid. Asked our pharmacist about recalls and he hasn’t received any “more” in the past 2 months. That’s concerning since we were never notified of a recall nor can I find it online. Our doctor said the binders in Armour keep it from being absorbed properly. What can we do for better absorption?
I rarely hear about anyone on Armour having nausea, though, even though I believe you for you! Maybe you have an adrenal problem that it’s revealing?? Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info And your doctor is wrong about the binders in Armour, even if we’d prefer there to be less. Most people are doing well on it if they get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Saw on the FB page someone stated WP is not going to return at all. Is this the case?
I don’t think anyone knows anything for sure.
Is anyone optimal on Armour without using additional t3?
Many many many are. It’s actually a great goal, because it also brings the FT4 up where it should be. You just have to correct any of the causes of rising Rt3 when raising NDT. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
Meant to say integrative. I am going back to her on April 26 as she was fantastic when saw her about 4 years ago. $340 for 2 hour consult including all lab work. She moved farther away but that is oooook!!…. Heard back from my PCP and she repeated again to go to an integrative Dr. She is too unfamiliar with compounded meds. Will keep you posted as to how this all plays out. Take care, Hope hubby is doing ok…
Joanne in Maryland, USA
I did get a message from my PCP and she does not want to increase the compounded dosage. She claims she is not familiar with it and urged me to find a homeopathic Dr. I am going to call the one I used to go to and get the meds squared away. All this upset due to recalls. Feel for everyone else as well. Hell of a journey currently that we all have to suffer so.
Homeopathic? The better doctors are usually functional med or integrative.
I’m a little new to this. I have a naturepath in our little town I was thinking of trying.
Is a naturepath like a functional or integrative doctor?
It’s confusing about all the different types of doc’s 🙁
I will also google, but sometimes I don’t trust googling.
Hi Sue. There are no perfect doctors out there, including naturopaths. But a naturopath is one who has a 4-year training, and their first line of treatment is about using natural methods like herbs, nutrition, saunas, fasting, etc, rather than prescriptions or surgery as their first line of treatment. There’s nothing wrong with that. But do also be prepared that they tend to push you to buy what they have right there in their office. I personally prefer to do my own research on recommended supplements if someone I see is a naturopath, especially price comparisons. But that’s just me. Or I might buy what they sell, but will do that research when I go home before buying it again.
And if their education is important to you (it would be for me) you might want to call ahead, or check their framed diploma, to see if the one you are seeing got their training and degree in “Naturopathic Medicine”, which will mean they can diagnose and prescribe. It you don’t see that, they can do neither and won’t have quite the education, even if they have the title of Naturopath.
But no matter who you see, we all have to 1) Get informed, 2) Find a practitioner we can guide, where needed. And I can’t be more serious about 1 and 2, Sue. In the thyroid arena, too many doctors are very poorly trained and believe in that poor training as if it’s from God Almighty. And too many hypothyroid or Hashi’s patients have been kept sick, in their own degree and kind, for several decades now.
So consider buying the updated revision STTM book and be committed to learning from the sections in the book you first want to know about. https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
You are 1000% correct. I called my pharmacist and he said I am underdosed. So, I emailed my PCP in the patient portal explaining all late Friday PM 4/9 so should hear from her tomorrow. I requested she call my pharmacist who is a gem to increase dosage. She will give me a hard time most likely as I had a thyroidectomy in 1992 due to cancerous nodules from adenoids radiation as a child of 7. I am going to an integrative doctor end of April to the tune of $340.00 for hour and half and does not accept insurance. I need the WP urgently as I am a celiac. No response from RLC Labs on WP back on market. Praying my so so PCP helps and works with me or will take matters into my own hands.
I want to be happy again…ðŸ˜..
Take care and be safe.
Thanks for responding.
To follow up I went to a traditional Endo Dr.and not a good outcome. Would only test for TSH and one free. Did not like either bovine nor porcine compounded meds. She recommended a integrative doctor of which she gave me a name. Will follow up with him. So frustrated right now as current compounded meds not working. Temp 96.4, BP ranges 160/ 100. Never, ever had that kind of BP. Always 120- 125/ 70 – 80. Weight gain, hair loss. Need stronger dose but not sure what you mean by” optimal.” So frustrated…did GREAT on WP. Going to take compounded with some old Synthroid…but has methylcellulose which allergic to…so damn mad about RLC Labs..ugh!!
I have to do SOMETHING..
Hope you two are well and safe.
Hi Joanne. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal. Because it’s not that the compounded doesn’t work. It’s because he’s underdosing you. Endocrinologists keep proving that they are worst doctors to go to overall. Only a teeny tiny percentage know what they are doing.
I have been really ticked off that RLC has just left its patient base hanging for 7 months now. I’m a NT user.
That said, I’ve called 3 compounding pharmacies this last month, and 2 of the three told me that they’ve stopped doi g any compounded NDT, because they couldn’t get either consistent potency, and/or consistent supply… Supply being the bigger issue. They were very frustrated.
Doesn’t bode well. For any of us.
Hope you and hubby doing well so far.
An update not sure compounded meds working. Loosing hair, see new Endo Dr. April 6, will mention all, Also, have you heard anything more about the return of WP Thyroid?
Thanks in advance
Hi Joanne. We are doing ok. I’ll be doing better after my second vaccination tomorrow and then two weeks past it. lol. No about WP. Did you get optimal on those compounded meds? https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
karin a stimmel
Hi there, anybody know if there is or was a problem with the Canadian Erfa thyroid. I have been taking it for a couple of years and now in the last half year my TSH and T3 and T4 are all over the place. Would you recommend switching to Armour?
By patient reports, Erfa hasn’t been what it used to be for YEARS, sadly.
karin a stimmel
Thank you Janie. I will switch over to Armour.
This is interesting to see as I swapped from naturethroid to ERFA in October and have had many hypothyroid symptoms return.
Here is something I found last night looking at RLC’s website. It now shows Westhroid is available on their page, but all the places I called told me they cannot get it yet. Maybe RLC is going to come back soon, I sure hope so. Everything else sucks to take right now and doesn’t work very well.
Robert, many, many people are doing wonderful on Armour, and others on T4 with T3. This is the goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie, I was on Armour from late 2013 until late 2014 and it had stopped working for me no matter what dose I was on, that was when I made the switch to Naturethroid and I felt so much better. With in 3 months all my test were optimal and everything was good until mid 2017 when the first shortage showed up. After that Naturethroid stopped working for me and I started to gain weight that was my first sign that it was not doing it’s job anymore. Switched to NP and this drug has horrible side effects and is not consistent at all. One batch you feel great and the next batch is awful so I will never take that again. I am currently on 100MG Synthroid and 5 micro grains of T3 and so far so good. If RLC starts again I will go back to it but for some of us NP and Armour is a nightmare.
In 2012, there was another bad change to Armour. So in 2013, you may have still been getting the changed 2012 Armour via the pharmacy. But it’s been working again well the last few years.
Or you can stay on the two synthetics, but you are super underdosed on that T3. For example, and comparing to NDT, two grains = 76mcg T4 and 18mcg T3. Three grains = 114mcg T4 and 27mcg T3. And this is your goal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I came to this blog to see if anyone else was noticing that Armour isn’t working as well anymore. I switched to Armour immediately after the NP Thyroid debacle and was doing really well on it (150mg) …until a few months ago: weight gain, aches in muscles and joints, low energy, afternoon fatigue requiring a nap etc. Could be other things contributing, but was just wondering if others noticed the same. I see that some are also noticing this. I guess time will tell.
Hi Darlene. There’s a possibility that on only 150 mg, you were underdosed. Thus, hypo can eventually return with a vengeance. See what our goal is: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Hi! I was on NatureThroid and doing well until their latest recall (i think 2018/19). At that point, I switched to Armour and was on 120mg and a 30mg totaling 150 plus 10 mcg of Cytomel. I noticed in September of 2020 after a refill of the Armour 120 that I started to get many hypothyroid symptoms. After a few weeks on this refill, I started to get hypo symptoms; cold, gaining weight, hair loss, afternoon fatigue, dry skin etc. I knew something wasn’t right. Three weeks ago, I had my endocrinologist take me off the Armour 120’s and put me on five 30 mg Armour instead. Ironically, I am noticing a difference already. I will have my labs ready drawn in five weeks, but I do feel better. I’m not sure but it does seem like something may have been wrong with that 120 mg dose. Is that a possibility?
The problem is that nothing is consistent yet. We have a lot of reports from patients who are still doing quite well on Armour, even after picking up a new prescription bottle. Then we have some who didn’t do well. We’re waiting on consistency in reports, which hasn’t occurred yet.
Did anyone ever discover what the weird urine smell was attributed to for NP snd some sources of USP porcine powder?
Has anyone heard anything about Nature Throid coming back? I still after months of suffering cannot regulate on Armour… I miss Nature…..
Hi Karen. Can you give more details on why you feel you can’t regulate on Armour? In fact, the reason may be here and it’s all correctible: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me Being on Naturethyroid may have messed you up.
Wondering if anything has happened to Armour in the last year. Was on NP thyroid and due to the mishap switched to Armour. Everything has been great except for the last few months. Now once again, ALL the symptoms are back. Constipation, brain fog, joint pain and unbelievable FATIGUE. Looked and looked for any information on Armour and a possible reformulated, to no avail. All I know is it feels like a slow death….. if anyone has any insight, I’d be appreciative.
Hi Laura. There’s a possibility that you being underdosed on Armour has done that. Read this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Hi, going to see my endo Tuesday. I am requesting synthetic T3, not because I want to, because I have no choice. I have Celiac, along with dairy/egg allergies.
Which brand do you think is best? Mylan, Paddock or Sigmapharm is the most tolerated? Any advice is so appreciated! Thank you!
Cytomel and Sigma Pharm are popular. But others work. too. See the T3 brands written in pink on the following page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands
Thank you so much, Janie. What are your thoughts on slow release T3? For a 60 mg NP equivalent, how much T3 would I take?
Thanks again for all of your help!
It’s about reported experiences—that slow release T3 seems to run out too soon for some. And there is concern that some of the T3 is releasing so slowing that you could be pooping some of it out–that comes from Dr. John C. Lowe and seems logical. One grain is equal to 25 mcg of T3 in effect.
Thanks so much, Janie. Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks for all that you do.
You are welcome. Suffering as long as I did has always impelled me to do all I do via STTM.
This comment is for Renee–how are you feeling? We haven’t heard from you in awhile. Please if you have the energy and time write us an update so that we know whether you’ve gotten some help. Take care everybody, and may all feel well..Janie, hope that you’re doing well too!
i tired to donate but it says isn’t working. more brain fog probably .now dont knwo what to do since nothing is working thyovanz nutrimeds ancestral supplements anyone tried ancestral supplements beef thyroid with liver . 30 mg thyroid 470 mg liver also from new zealand . the bad policy in my opinion lockdown has affected this too
Hi, i had my thyroid removed in August of 2019. I was on naturethroid at first and did great! In may of 2020 my levels started going off so by June I was switched to synthroid which didn’t go well. My doctor switched me to Armour in October and by Nov I felt almost normal again. At the end of Nov I picked up COVID and my thyroid levels crashed. We went from 75 armour in Nov. to 105 as of today March 15th and the constant migraines, muscle twitches, muscle aches, functioning through brain fog, etc. are driving me to the brink of tears daily. At the beg of Feb my TSH was at 4.54, closer to normal so the doc said to stick to the 105 for now. Could I be going backward again? I’ve had my cortisol tested, adrenals, etc. and all came back normal. I don’t know what else to do… I’ve had nerve tests and no one found anything but the nerves in my body are going crazy. None of this happened while my levels were stable, however, no one can tell me why this is happening. Why my body is acting so weird. I’m worried that it will never get better. Being in pain with these migraines for 3 months now has me worried I”m going to kill my liver with pain meds ( i need to work and have three little girls so I’ve got to take something). I struggle with palpitation and noticed that my blood pressure is now fluctuating which has never been an issue. Has this happened to anyone? Any advice? I honestly don’t know where to turn…
Hi. Yes, a lot of people started reporting by 2018 that their symptoms were coming back or levels were off on Naturethroid. But…another reason for levels to be off is being underdosed. We have learned the hard way over the years that we have to get our free T4 and free T3 optimal when on both T4 and T3 in our treatment. And even the 105mg you are on rarely makes anyone optimal. So first check out what’s on this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And by the way, 4.54 is terrible for a TSH. That is a VERY hypothyroid result. And another page to help you be more informed; https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless Because once we get optimal with our frees as explained in previous link, our TSH is BELOW range.
We also learned as hypothyroid patients (no matter the cause) that lab results have nothing to do with just falling anywhere in that “normal” range. A “normal” range means some of the volunteers were hypothyroid when they created ranges. So to also help you be more informed to counter bad doctoring, check out this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Thank you for that… i will read the links you recommended. The one major concern I have for going up higher is that my I have terrible heart palpitations. Is there a way to control them?
When we get palps when raising T3, that points to this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
I’m in the same boat as you minus the migraines and I’m on T4 only medication. The muscle twitches and heart palpitations are driving me mad! I feel stuck in a vicious cycle. How are you doing now? After reading through this site, the best I can understand what has happened to my body over the years is originally I was on Armour in 2019, became very stressed out over work and other things, started to not tolerate it due to the T3/adrenal problem. Mistakenly was switched to levo by an endo, then to NP thyroid by a wellness MD which made my situation MUCH worse due to NP potency problems and my T3/adrenal problems. Was switched back to levo. I’m currently at half my dose because if I increase it at all my body goes into hyper symptoms at night. It’s odd on a T4 med. I believe my adrenals/cortisol are still way out of whack and I’m trying my best to work through that so I can go back to my regular dose and switch to Armour. I also had another interesting caveat to my situation is I’ve taken spironolactone for over a decade for hormonal acne. Spiro is an aldosterone antagonist which dumps salt out of the body and holds on to potassium. Despite my electrolyte levels always coming back okay, I believe it taxed my adrenals to not have proper salt ratios which led to stress intolerance and adrenal problems in the first place. I wish you well and if anyone has any ideas how to further help me move on from this vicious cycle of adrenal/low thyroid problem I’m in I’d appreciate it! I’m currently doing the best I can with the info from the adrenal page (minus HC or cortex supplementation). I’m taking lots of vitamin C, B vitamins, and salt supplementation. Sleep is difficult with the muscle twitches, racing heart, heart palps, but trying to get consistent sleep. I’ve worked to bring down my environmental stress with work, etc but lack of sleep doesn’t help!
Also, my iron levels are back up and good so I’m able to rule out those concerns. Just a heads up for anyone taking iron supplementation, if you notice any weird skin infections or increase incidents of illness, it took a LOT of trial and error to realize iron supplementation worsened a fungal skin infection for me drastically. Microbials, particularly yeast/fungus need use iron as a resource for growth and I went too drastic with increasing iron….POOF, my skin was a mess! I mean bad! I’m still trying to recover from that which I suspect won’t happen until I am optimal with thyroid and cortisol. I purchased lactoferrin to help bring iron back down. Most lactoferrin available in the US is apolactoferrin which doesn’t contain iron so be careful taking it as a monotherapy. From what I’m reading, lactoferrin helps mask and carry iron to the appropriate places in the body while hiding it from microbials but it can decrease iron levels if taken without iron supplementation. Lots more info regarding lactoferrin, but that’s the gist. Anyways, any help from anyone on how to get back to optimal with thyroid while addressing adrenals would be helpful! I’m unable to get HC since no doctor I’ve seen recognizes suboptimal cortisol levels. My cortisol levels follow the typical cortisol line throughout the day but overall are lower (minus a spike in the afternoon). This is like trying to untangle a knot! A little work here, a little work there, a little supplement here….hopefully one day I can untangle this mess!
Susan M Hall
I’ve read that donating blood is an effective way to bring iron levels down if they are high.
Not exactly. Some have high blood levels due to a methylation problem, but are actually in a low iron state. A methylation problem means it’s not breaking down for use. So by donating blood, it ‘potentially’ makes one even worse.
Now if one has the genetic disorder called hemochromatosis, then yes, they do give blood regularly. But that is quite different and needs testing to detect the cause.
4.54 is VERY low! Remember…..the higher the number on TSH, the “lower,” (Hypo) it is. Results closer to a “0,” are actually “higher,” (Hyper). This is VERY important!
Zero is definitely NOT hyper for hypothyroid/Hashimotos patients who have T3 and their treatment and get optimal free T4 and free T3.
There is an inexcusable misunderstanding by doctors about this, and with some patients who think doctors know what they’re doing. When someone has Graves disease, which is hyperthyroidism, the TSH can go to zero. But that is simply because a Grave’s patient makes way too much T3 and T4, pushing both quite high. And it’s the excess of T3 and T4 that can result in bone loss and or heart problems.
For us as hypothyroid / Hashimoto’s patients, the TSH will naturally go to zero because we are taking over the job of the natural TSH, so it will fall to zero with that wonderful T3 in our treatment. But we are definitely not hyper. And we see constant reporting by patients that their bone density and heart issues improved with T3 in their treatment, and with that TSH at 0.
So why do some hypothyroid / Hashimoto’s patients end up in ER due to a fast heart rate when they get on or are raising a product with T3 in it? It’s because it’s revealing they have a cortisol problem. They are NOT truly hyper there either.
I had my entire thyroid removed due to cancer about 4 years ago. I was prescribed Levothyroxine, 200mcg till about a year ago a doctor dropped it to 175mcg.
I lost my business and home due to the Covid19 shutdown in California and have moved to Arizona near the Mexico border and recently began getting my levothyroxine supply as Eutirox 175mcg from Mexico because of financial restraints.
I’m trying to better educate myself because over the past couple years I’ve become more sore, especially in my lower body, irritability has increased, blood pressure is increasing, lack of energy is becoming an issue and I’m wondering if these are due to issues with levothyroxine?
I’m wanting to know about the T3 and T4, are they both present in synthetic levothyroxine?
Since I no longer have a thyroid, what are my best options and with the recalls that now seem to be becoming a bigger issue, what/where should I source?
I’m due for a doctor’s visit and blood tests in the next few months and have not been happy with my last doctors, what are my options? What about going into Mexico for treatment?
I’d appreciate any good advice or experience â˜ºï¸
Hi. Levothyroxine is simply T4. Study this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work
Does hypothyroidism cause high blood pressure ( from 140/80 to 180/ 84) ?..
Just curious and do you have any idea when WP will be back from RLC Lab? I do pretty well on it…on a porcine compounded now….
Thanks in advance..
Hope ur hubby is coming along nicely…
It can, especially if you are trying to treat it on nothing but T4. Or if on NDT compounded, it can go up by having a cortisol problem, which includes low aldosterone with a cortisol problem. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone
I know my adrenals are out of whack and that I am pooling because my t4 is too low and my t3 is in range. I am taking grass fed liver supplements because my iron is a little low and just started adrenal supplements. This may be a stupid question but our adrenals and iron get low when we are underdosed but we need to stay underdosed while we fix those issues so it’s a catch 22. Won’t being under dosed cause it to be an uphill battle to correct. Thanks for any knowledge you can share.
When I used to be on T4-only (which causes low iron), i was still able to raise my iron. So you should be able to raise your iron. It just won’t stay up if we don’t maintain the iron supps until we can finally get optimal with our thyroid meds.
How can I store NDT if I have some extra? I have been through 3 recalls now and I’m sick and tired of “getting the call” from the pharmacy so is it possible to store it longer term and how long can it last? I have asked the companies and pharmacists and no one is wiling to say anything at all. Thank you Janie for all you do!
Hi. Put the bottle in an airtight baggie and stick it in the refrigerator or freezer. Will last for a few years.
I tried Thyrovanz last October and November and although it resolved a lot of my symptoms it caused a tingling in my feet, higher temperature (felt hot all the time) and weird dizzy spells when I first woke up. Tried to increase but no change so I got off. Now I am reading on FB pages that the newest bottles after shortages are causing hypo symptoms ( i.e. joint pain, weight gain, etc) and are now whiter in color but the ingredients listed are the same. Sounds familiar but this is a bovine source and not porcine! No word yet back from the company about the changes.
me too the new thyovanz bottles are not working even not so new ones exp 9 /22 and 4 /23 gained d 4 /23 gained 7 pounds in less than 2 weeks , joint pain too, brain fog now have no solution anyone know of one . is just like what happened with thyrogold. am distraught . i dont belong to facebook so cant see the replies . thank you janie and all
i cant find my comment so trying to remember what wrote here beofre . thryovanz seems to be not working anymore just like thryogold . i dont belong to facebook and if you dont belong you can only see 1 or 2 commnents . am distraught gained 7 pounds in lest than 2 weeks joint pain tried brain fog guess you d call it
thryovanz worked great when started last may or so lost 18 pounds now nothing works starting maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago gained 7 pounds , even with eating less, even taking 3 of the 100 s 1 0 r 2 6 5 s or a 300 and a 150 of the thyrovanz , tried nu tri meds just a few times of and on also take ancestral supplements [ i like that can take with or without food ]
beef thyriod some days
thank you for any information a nd help
oh no it does sound ike what happend wiht thyrogold, i swtiched to thyrovanz [ thanks to here ]it worked great up until a few weeks ago or so now am gaining wiehgt rapidly joint pain etc
lynn or anyone know something else that will work? the new bottle s of thyrovanz are white filling compared to the older ones .. again ! just like what happened with thyrogold when it stopped working a year or more ago, its hard to trust anyone now
also anyone know if thyovanz thyrogold and nutrimeds are truly from new zeal and or are they now really from argentina even though it says new zealand on the bottle.
anyone have information about ancestral supplements ? have been taking[ the beef thyroid with liver but i saw that on amazon someone had it tested and was full of glyphosate .[ means from argentina very likely or someone other than new zealand can you write back what you have found out thank you very much am so depressed again about this
I am a thyroidectomy patient and extremely sensitive to medications.Currently taking 90mg each morning.
1)Can you use Armour Thyroid that is from September 2020? My integrative doc thought Armour was recalled, took me off Armour-put me on compounded and it was a disaster as I didn’t absorb the compounded thyroid and became extremely hypothyroid.He started me back on Armour and I want to use what I have leftover since it was $90.
2) Doesn’t Armour Thyroid get its porcine product from the same companies that had the recall issues?
3) Does STTM have a chart that shows optimal Thyroid lab values? There is so much great material on this site but I was looking specifically for a chart.
Keep up the good work,you are helping so many.
Hi Sharon. Yes, they are useable for years.
The makers of Armour state they use pigs from US and Canada. The recalls seem to based on porcine powder from “Europe” as far as NP Thyroid. Not sure about Naturethroid and WP, except that there sure were a lot patients who for two years, reported going downhill in many ways on those two.
Thank you for the quick response. Sorry the question went through twice,I did not realize it definitely submitted as I got a phone call right when I clicked submit comment.
I am thyroidectomy patient and take Armour Thyroid. (I am extremely sensitive to medications and a little for me is a lot so to speak.)
I was taking 60mg in am and 30mg in afternoon. In September 2020, my doc gave me a 90 day refill on my 60mg tabs. I filled it and only used 7, then because he thought that brand was recalled(which after reading here,I am understanding it was not Armour brand)
he decided to get me off of it and have my thyroid compounded instead.
It was a disaster, I didn’t absorb the compounded thyroid and became extremely hypothyroid feeling absolutely horrible until he switched me back to Armour in January 2021. I am still not optimal but we’re working on it.
My questions are 1)I have 83 tabs of 60mg Armour left from September 23,2020. Can I use them now?
My Insurance will not cover Armour and that script costs me $90.
2) Does Armour not get their porcine product from the same source as the other ones that were recalled?
3) Do you have an optimal thyroid levels chart I can view?
Thank you for this outstanding site that has helped so many! I appreciate your continued hard work and thyroid advocacy.
I had to up my dose of naturethroid to 10 grains! Still not getting the full effect. My doctor suggested switching to Armour but I’m afraid I won’t get any effect. Any suggestions on how to switch from naturethroid to Armour?
1) Call your doctor
2) Say yes to the prescription of Armour.
3) Call the pharmacy and say No, I do not want you to substitute it with anything else. I expect to be picking up the brand name armour.
4) Pick up the prescription of armour while checking the label that it is actually armour (pharmacies unscrupulously tend to switch it on you, without telling you, to one they make more profit on)
5) Get ready to get your life back again.
P.S. Since patients are finding armour to be a better product right now, and thus stronger then the nature-throid of the last over 2 years, we tend to take less of it than the amount of nature-throid we were on. We then wait a few weeks and tweak if needed.
Also, patients have noticed that the longer they have been on the recalled Naturethroid, the more likely their adrenals may now be stressed (which can cause hyperlike symptoms on the better armour) and/or iron may have dropped (which can push rt3 upwards). So you might want to study this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info and this one: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron
Janie, is Armour gluten free? That is my only concern. I’m on NP, before that was on WP, and before that Naturethroid. I am willing to switch to Armour, but only if they specify that it’s gluten free. Someone I spoke with several months ago was unwilling to do that.
The company stated last year that they “aren’t using gluten derived ingredients.” I have to be gluten free and notice no issues with Armour. But you can always move to T4 and T3 and get those frees optimal, too.
Brenda S Wood
I have been taking Armour Thyroid 150 mg. for a year and a half and doing fairly well after switching around from WP to Nature-Throid to NP after they all stopped working. I just refilled my prescription for Armour Feb. 23, 2021 (last prescription was filled the end of Oct. 2020). On the first day I took it I started feeling terrible. I have brain fog, extreme fatigue, my head feels weird, a kind of dizziness, and feeling depressed. I saw on this blog that some other people had reported some issues recently with Armour as well, so wanted to let you know about mine. I’d like to know if more people are having any reactions to Armour. Is synthetic T4 and synthetic T3 our only option left?
Welp! ! ! ! I did NOT know what was going on last summer when I felt like I was almost at deaths door! ! ! I called my DO who was prescribing Naturethroid for me and she never called me back! ! ! Then I got desperate because I felt so horrible! I took 4 of my thyroid pills and split them in half and for the next 4 days, I took 1 and 1/2 thyroid pills. After 4 days, I felt human again, and took the rest of my script at 1 and 1/2 pills until they were gone! As I said, I call my DO and got no return call. I made an appointment and went in. When I told her what I did, she EXPLODED! ! ! ! ! She knew what was going on, but never told her patients! The pharmacy never told me. One would think that their Dr. or Pharmacist, would have let the patient know what was happening with their meds! ! ! ! She threw another script at me for a compounded thyroid that cost us $180.00! ! ! I had no idea! ! ! ! And now, that I read some of the raw materials are coming from China, I believe that I will just have to live without! Actually, I really haven’t been feeling that bad lately, so maybe my body is getting used to not having the thyroid, and at my age, 76, my body might be compensating for the lack of the thyroid hormone, in some other way. I believe that I will not be taking any thyroid meds for the rest of my life!
This will probably be my last communication for awhile as things have calmed down a bit. I had called my pharmacist one last time to ask why the lab, PCCA, was so tight lipped about the porcine sourced from either Europe or the state’s and even HE was amazed. Anyway, I see two endos in March and April to pick one going forward. I also found two others down the ROAD who do prescribe WP. Of the four or even 5 I will pick one who I feel I can really work with lifelong. If not, I will go the naturopathic route who are more open although they don’t accept insurance and r very expensive. I will keep you posted on my endo doctor search.
Respond when you can as I value your opinions immensely.
Hi. Glad for all you have contributed.
WP was recalled. Patients were reporting not doing well on it, just as they haven’t been on NP Thyroid or Naturethroid.
If you are in the US, I will tell you that patient reported experiences with Endos have been extremely awful. Most informed patient have stopped going to them. Yes, there can be an exception here or there. But when what appears to be 98% as lousy (T4-only obsessed, TSH obsessed, arrogant, close-minded), you might want to know that.
I am not surprised about the endo doctors. I do not have high hopes but I do need one. Should I not be satisfied I will go the naturopathic route as in Maryland we do have a fabulous place called The Ruscombe Mansion which has all kinds of natural practioners you could possibly want. They are expensive as most do not take insurance. However, I feel for the few times I need to see one I may just go that route. I did so before but the one I went to moved her practice close to Wash., DC and it is a trek for me now but she was great !!! Anyway, will keep you posted on the endo search and it really is a shame about their attitude. Do you happen to know, though, about a Dr. Westin Childs and if so how do you feel about him ?
Take care and thanks always for what you do.
I have always found your site helpful, thank you. I have never written before now. Because of STTM when I was finally able to get diagnosed and after about two MISERABLE years after I first suspected and my doctor blew me off, I asked for NDT, specifically RLC Labs NatureThroid and have taken it ever since. There have been periods where my need for it has seemed to fluctuate which now I wonder if it had to do with potency and wasn’t my thyroid function wavering as I had thought. I found I had to increase my dose last year and thankfully I found this post here and had an of idea why. But now my pharmacy has switched me over to WestThroid because they can’t get NatureThroid and it’s about three times more expensive. My Kaiser doctor has the hardest time prescribing me something which is off the formulary but I’m happy to pay out of pocket for because after all it’s cheap, it’s a natural compound. He has argued for giving me the synthetic stuff in the past, with T3 in a ratio similar to what I am getting with the NDT but that was more expensive (than NatureThroid–I have not compared it to WestThroid), but more importantly, why on earth would I want to switch when NDT has always worked so well for me? Flash forward to now: I have started to feel I was too low very gradually, as usual, but about 12 days ago it was enough of the usual signs (for me: poor digestion, poor recovery, aches, tiredness, coldness) so I increased a quarter grain and marked my calendar for the change which I have learned to anticipate in just under 5 week’s time. Since then I feel however like I am slowly sliding off a cliff into a black hole. Last week, my period was hell as it always was before I was diagnosed/medicated. I’m now, increasingly in what I would call a crisis, having fits of melancholy for no good reason, achey, fatigue, just a general sense of not being completely alive, decay, dry skin, despair. It’s getting much worse than something I would attribute to a drop in potency of 10-20%, which makes me fearful because it suggests I need a bigger jump up or higher dose, but I don’t want to overdose myself, and I don’t want to have to wait weeks and weeks to feel like myself again, but clearly I need to get something other than this stuff I am taking, but I have thyroid brain now and it makes me doubt everything now and, I don’t know maybe you get the picture. I am despairing. I will get some blood work within a few days. I pray to God Armour works for me (I am in California) because I don’t know of any other NDT brand that is readily available. I have only and always (over 8 years now) taken around 2 grain per day. Janie I see you routinely telling people that’s too little now. But much of that time I have felt great–not necessarily when the numbers were where doctors wanted them (usually a bit higher, or in the case of TSH a bit lower), but where I felt great and not overmedicated, I have always insisted on that. There is no hypothyroidism in my family. I think I developed it through stress from a really difficult period of my life. And I have never tested positive for antibodies. But I don’t eat wheat or nightshades due to sensitivities and so I’ve never really been able to rule out the autoimmune idea conclusively. I ate a little homemade sourdough in January and have wondered if that’s why I am now falling into a black hole, waking up in the middle of the night puffy and in pain like I did tonight. Feeling 100 years old at 47.
I’m just wondering if it’s the Westthroid. But if it were it would seem like there’d be more reports like mine. So I thought I’d better chime in, in case.
We have found that today, the only NDT that is working is Armour. The rest were recalled, though we are not sure what is going on with Westhroid. If you mean WP, it was recalled due to problems. Even Erfa in Canada, which wasn’t recalled, has apparently been causing a lot of problems as reported by patients.
Shifted a while back from natturethroid to compounding pharmacy low dose t4 -9.5 mcg
3.25mcg t3 to titration up but Due to difficult with am heart arrhythmia and insomnia if I go higher
I have still cold hands and constipation but every time I try to raise it my heart takes over and becomes scary l
Any ideas for how to do it so I won’t have these symptoms? Your site is a godsend thank you so much!,
Having symptoms with raising can point to this information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
In trying all the thyroid medication available at this point I keep running into a challenge specifically with lower leg aching. I got it within days of using anything with synthetic T4 and I am trying to make Armour work again and it is back. I am on 30 mg and have hair loss, constipation, joint pain and occasional heart palpitations. I think I need to increase but it always makes the leg aching worse. I am waiting for labs for saliva and thyroid but am barely functioning. I remember you mentioning a feedback loop. Is it possible that raising thyroid medication could make your symptoms worse before it starts helping? The leg aching happens while sleeping mostly and manifests in no rest.
Of course you have hair loss, constipation, joint pain and occasional heart palps. 30 mg is half a starting dose of 60 mg, and even with 60mg, we aren’t meant to stay on that without raising within two weeks in search of the dose that results in optimal frees. This is the goal which 30 mg will never achieve, nor 60, and hardly ever 90. Even for the majority, 120 mg (which is two grains) will be underdosing. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I am trying to raise but it makes the leg aching worse to the point of not sleeping. I’m trying to figure out a way around it so I can raise.
Hi Lynn. You are badly underdosed. And that can cause an adrenal problem that raising reveals. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Just got my labs back on 30 mg of armour:
FT3 – 3.3 (2.1 – 4.2)
FT4 – .9 (.8 – 2.0)
RT3 – 20.3 (8 – 31)
TSH – 2.5 (.5 – 4.7)
Vitamin D – 39 (20 – 80)
The results all say normal but I realize they are not. Still waiting on results for zrt cortisol test.
Again, it’s not about being normal. You have a lot of issues there. Compare to this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values And 30 mgs is only half a starting dose.
I have heard back from the pharmacist who heard back from PCCA lab in Texas. The porcine powder contains lactose as a filler and is not sourced from China or Thailand. It is sourced from either the states or Europe. The capsule is made from gelatin and the excipient is Loxoral which contains isopropyl malt. So what I am reacting to I’m not sure. I did swallow it whole this time. Time will tell. I’m just hoping PCCA is telling the truth. Never heard of lactose as a filler specifically. Take care.
I am just suspicious as to where their “European source” got their porcine powder, though. China has a HUGE and available wholesale market of porcine powder for sale to anyone, any country.
Thanks for responding.
I have been taking the porcine capsules whole so far for 4 days now. I have had very little reaction. But…. I am going to call the pharmacist back and ask him why the lab would NOT say whether it was sourced from the states or Europe. They explicitly said not China or Thailand. Funny thing is my temperature FINALLY broke 98.
It is usually between 94 to 96 taken at arising, mid PM and bedtime. In your opinion, what do you think of the labs position? Do you feel porcine sourced from China or Thailand is better? What would be the difference? Cost? Quality? Purity?
Thanks in advance.
This is just me…. But I tend to be worried about thyroid powder from China.
Me, too. I am suspicious about China and Thailand as the pharmacist said they were pretty explicit about not getting if from either of those two countries. Anyway, so far, so good. But….. I do miss my WP !!!.. only 3 ingredients and felt pretty darn good…I keep checking a particular website with updates about the return of it. Hoping by the spring / early summer.
Thanks again for what you do. You have proven to be an incredible source of information for the thyroid people out there. God bless you always, Janie… you are invaluable !!! Hope your hubby is coming along. Joanne
Over the years, Joanne, we’ve heard incredible things from pharmacists which end up being wrong.
Joanne, you probably already know this… but wanted to mention, in case: WP contained lactose in trace amounts that were already in the porcine when they received it. See:
Inulin, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Lactose Monohydrate*
*Present in traceable amount as part of Thyroid USP (diluent)
Well, I had my son smell strongly the porcine powder. He said it was hard to describe but had a semi-foul, musty old smell to it. I agree, too. It is hard to describe. When I smell the other capsule contents from another compounding pharmacy with no porcine there is hardly an odor at all. Without implicating the pharmacist in any way who made my newest meds with porcine I am going to ask him upfront to take off the bottle cap and smell the porcine powder he just received and tell me what he thinks. What is interesting, though, when I asked him where PCCA gets it from he stated they do not reveal that. Hmmmm !! He swears by PCCA, considers them legit but I thought I saw on the FDA website that they were cited for something awhile ago… Hmmmm again ! Anyway what a shame that we all have to go through this where our health and well being is at stake all due to …….money.
I have been on Armour for many years. Now on medicare and they do not pay coverage. I was looking to change to Naturethroid or NP when all the problems started. So I’m checking in to see if the quality of either one has been improved? Armour is expensive but if there is still a problem going on with the quality of the other two, I’ll stay on Armour until problems get fixed. Thanks for your input.
I’ve stuck with NP through this whole mess. I get tension migraines, burning or flushing sensations in the face and ears, brain fog, bouts of depression, so I would say no… NP has not improved in the slightest. My numbers all check good but this product is still a far shot from what it once was. No idea why they screwed around with a good thing, but I’ll likely start looking into new meds when I get back onto a health insurance plan.
How much do you take of NP and can you post your latest labs with reference ranges.
I am writing again as I see, but not sure, if my last em didn’t go through as I did it on my cell phone. I had stated that the reason I may have had a reaction is that I took the new compounded capsule by opening it and placing it under my tongue rather that swallow it to by pass the digestive tract. I had my typical celiac reaction. I have gone back to the one without porcine. My pharmacist will call PCCA Labs today in Austin, TX to see if there are any fillers in the porcine. Only he can call or make contact as he is a pharmacist. They were closed yesterday due to unusual snow storms in Texax. Once I here back from him I will take the capsule and swallow it although fillers are fillers whether swallowing or sublingual. I have done the smell test both with the one without porcine and with. I am not sure I am detecting a very slight cat pee odor or not. I am going to ask my son later to see what he detects without offering any clues. I am praying there are no fillers such as any cellusoses, yeast, malt, wheat, starch, etc. I can tolerate corn though. I will keep you posted and maybe this journey of mine can help others. God bless.
How much NP are you on? Please post this first on this thread.
Then when you get your test results, please post the results with reference ranges on this thread.
I was one of those people that decided to stay with NP thyroid, but my wonderful pharmacist always allowed me to inspect the pills before I accepted them. I wouldn’t accept any of the speckled ones which seemed to be causing a problem for a lot of people. I was doing pretty well on NP until the last refill that I got. I’ve been taking the pills from the refill for about three months now. They smell really bad…the cat pee smell is very strong, but the cat pee smell was always bad with NP. I just don’t breathe when I take them and I wash them down with lots of water. But, In the last two months I’ve been really going downhill. The body aches are back really bad. My hair is shedding again. I am getting terrible migraines again. I am so bloated and gaining weight every day it seems. I look at my face in the mirror and it seems like I’m getting that moon face again…but maybe it’s just because I’m fat again. I am in perimenopause and I’m having awful PMS symptoms, but NO actual period. It’s horrible. I feel uncomfortable and so tired and depressed…no energy. All I want is my bed. I always attribute my symptoms to something I’m doing wrong though. I always blame myself first or my circumstances. (I guess the doctor shaming over the years took its toll on me). I recently lost both of my cats within two months of each other so I blame my symptoms on the fact that I was grieving hard. I have a very stressful and grueling job that keeps me trapped at a desk for 9 to 10 hours per day. so, I blame my symptoms on the fact that I’m not moving my body enough. My diet got all screwed up because of this pandemic and I was basically locked in my house for 7 months alone. So, I blame my weight gain on the fact that I’m not eating low carb enough, or I am eating too much dairy, etc. I just feel like it’s all my fault for feeling bad. Finally, yesterday I went for bloodwork because in the span of 3 months I’ve gained 20 pounds and have gone up two pants sizes. My wonderful doctor ordered tons of tests (cortisol, full thyroid panel, full hormone panel, vitamin D, iron, etc) (14 vials of blood!). I am curious to see what the results are. If my thyroid levels are good, then I can go back to blaming myself I guess. If they are not good, I am not sure what I am going to do for medication. Synthroid almost killed me, so that’s not an option for me anymore. I loved WP when it was good, but that’s not an option anymore. I did very poorly on Naturethroid, so that’s not an option for me. NP was okay for a good while. If my thyroid levels are bad and the NP isn’t working for me anymore, then I don’t know what my options are at this point. The struggle is real and I’m tired of it.
For what it’s worth, I really identify with your post and your experience. You have represented this difficult to describe experience very articulately! It sounds clear to me you are not getting enough thyroid hormone. I hope you are able to find a good source again! Thanks for writing as it is some comfort to me that I am not completely alone in this.
One more issue: I’m ok with corn as a filler but it is the yeasts, celluloses, malts, starches, wheat, etc. that offends a celiac intestinly/ digestively. So, I shall see.
Sad, really, as I was doing pretty good on WP…
I just picked up 180 tablets of compounded thyroid medication with porcine (now available) for $165.00. (I am still ! waiting for WP Thyroid to return from recall.)The excippient is Loxoral which seems ok and pretty hypoallergenic.However, being a celiac, I had a reaction and I am now suspicious it is the porcine powder ! I have researched everywhere for the ingredients of it made from PCCA Labs. You can’t call them nor email unless you r a pharmacist.
Would you happen to know if the porcine powder contains microcrystalline cellulose or other fillers from PCCA in the states or anyone else who would happen to know. I know you live in England. I had a reaction as if I ate a lot of bread; loose stools, sneezing, flatulence, burning eyes like from pollen. I am betting it is the porcine and not the excipient Loxoral.
Thanks for responding.
Hi Joanne. For years and years, porcine has been just porcine. But with certain prescription brands or with compounded, they add fillers “alongside it” like cellulose or others. And the problem with ‘some’ of those fillers for Celiac is whether the base was corn or whether the base was wheat.
And today, we now have a new and awful problem….something causing the porcine powder to smell like cat piss. That is what was so horrific about NP Thyroid by Acella—the cat piss smell plus the symptoms of a burning throat, besides the fact that NP was causing a return of hypothyroid symptoms in people.
Then patients started to report they could smell that same cat piss smell in some compounded thyroid. It’s even still being noticed in the pickup of the redone NP by some patients. Patients know that Acella tried to hide it with a different coating, but there are reports of patients still smelling it to this day. (I personally will never put something into my body that smells like cat piss).
So back to you…I’m wondering if you weren’t reacting to gluten but were reacting to the mysterious way that porcine powder has changed since the pharmaceuticals been getting it from Europe now instead of from the US.
Erfa in Canada was the first to admit years ago that they were getting their porcine from Europe, and patients were also noticing that Erfa wasn’t as effective as it used to be, though back then, no mention of a cat piss smell. Then a few years later in 2019, Acella admitted they were now getting their porcine powder from Europe. In the summer of 2019, newly picked up NP Thyroid didn’t have the cat piss smell. But there were enough reporting a return of their hypothyroid symptoms and my husband was one of them. That was followed by newly picked up prescriptions (from pharmacies who also had a new supply) having the cat piss smell and patients having a myriad of bad gastrointestinal symptoms, plus a return of hypo. So with the latter symptoms, it does make me wonder if you are being exposed to the same changed porcine process that patients were with NP thyroid beginning in the fall of 2019…
You might want to open up your capsule and take a strong whiff of the powder. Even if you don’t have the cat pee smell, it just seems very clear to all of us that something has changed for the worse.
A year ago I was prescribed compounded porcine and the smell was there and then I had it made without any filler, just a capsule with porcine. It smelled even worse so the filler mutes the smell a little. The pharmacist said he didn’t smell anything. When NP first went bad I went to see my pharmacist (different one) and asked him to smell it and we smelled different strengths of NP some smelled like cat piss and some didn’t but he couldn’t tell the difference and neither could my husband. I wonder if some people are unable to notice it.
The different strengths could have come from different porcine batches, though. Either way, glad you have been doing what you’ve been doing!
What I meant to say is some of the pill batches smelled of cat urine and some smelled of the normal NDT smell. It was the tail end of the good NP and the beginning of the new NP.
I can not thank you enough for your fantastic response. I have to admit I opened the capsule and poured the powder under my tongue(sublingual) to bypass the digestive process. I will also check the smell. It did taste pretty sweet with a fruity flavor. I called my pharmacist and he was going to call PPCA today (2/17) in Austin, TX to ask what’s in the powder but they were closed due to storms in Texas. He is going to call tomorrow (2/18) and ask for the ingredients. I am dying of curiosity. Only a pharmacist can call or contact. I forgot to only ask for 15 capsules to check all out beforehand.
Maybe it was the way I took only the one but fillers are fillers no matter the method of taking the capsule; sublingual or swallow. Thanks again for your caring response. I will keep you posted and hope to help others who may have a similar situation. God bless…
One more thing: a corn filler is ok as it is the wheat, methylcellulose, malt, starch, anything crystalline, blah, blah, blah that offends a celiac digestally..
I feel like I’ve tried it all over the last year! Just finishing a trial on tirosint + cytomel. The cytomel hit hard every time I took it, and not taking it was miserable. Any thoughts on armour (for the t3 factor) + tirosint?
Liz, if Cytomel hit hard, that can be more about what it’s revealing. This: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
I’ve been so happy taking 2.5 grains Thyroid-S for many years since my thyroidectomy,. But now here I am, scrambling to find a replacement as the suppliers struggle to meet customer’s needs. I’m near the end of my 1,000 pill Thyroid-S bottle, and I’m wondering if anyone has experience with, or some advice about, Tru Thyroid, Thyrovanz, or Priority One Thyroid? Or any other source of desiccated thyroid to keep me going until Thyroid-S becomes available again. Thx ðŸ˜Š
There have been a few reports of doing well on TruThyroid so far. There have been too many reports of people seeing rising RT3 on Thyrovanz, which makes some of us uncomfortable in recommending it. But it’s up to you. There don’t seem to be a lot of reports on Priority One lately. Or the best seems to be getting a prescription for synthetic T3 with sythetic T4 and getting the frees optimal.
Armour has been working great until my last refill.This new refill smells just like NP. It is for sure no longer working. I called my doctor to ask for a new refill. He put it in at Walgreens it smells the exact same. All my hypo systems have been returning. I also noticed the pills are a lot harder. My meds all come from express scripts. Yes, I made sure they didn’t switch it with another brand.
Give more details. When you say it smells like NP, are you saying it smells like cat piss? That alone has been stopping some people from using any of these changed NDTs. I personally lean the same way.
Have you tried chewing up the pills first?? That may be a good experiment for anyone who doesn’t care about what they’re putting in their stomachs that smells like cat piss. Ugh.
Take a close look at a pill………..what letters are imprinted on the pill?
Armour and NP have different letters imprinted on the pill. You want to double check to make sure they gave you Armour rather than NP.
I am also having issues with Armour that started with my December refill. Up until then I had been doing ok on it (not as good as NP Thyroid before they did whatever they did to mess it up and then again with Acella). I am not getting the cat pee spell, more a lack of that porcine smell when the meds are good. I have been having daily digestion issues/burning sensation, low-level depression is kicking back in, went from regular daily BM’s to every 2-3 days, sleep is getting interrupted again, have gained 4-5 lbs. without changing anything and after dropping about 15 lbs. last year without too much effort/to get rid of the weight gain from Acella no longer working. The usual stuff we experience when our NDT meds aren’t working. Not sure what I am going to do next as I was miserable for 20 years on synthetic meds. Maybe I will try the Tru Thyroid even though I am a bit leery about going out of country for what is not officially a medication. How can these pharmaceutical companies think we won’t notice their f’ing changes when these meds help control so many of our metabolic and hormonal systems!?!
I was searching to see if I could find anyone having issues with Armour Thyroid as of late and it sounds like my body is right on the nose. Definitely hypo symptoms returned. My voice is so hoarse for the last month it’s getting difficult to talk and not to mention the typical hypo symptoms, gained 14 lbs, blurry vision, hair falling out in clumps, memory problems and the usual bathroom difficulties. I have Hashimoto’s and between my thyroid kicking it up every now and then to give it one last go and then stopping, I have really had a hard time regulating. Usually the 120MG Armour at least keeps me at good level until past 5 or so months. I will mention that I had always supplemented with Thyrogold in a very low does and had found a perfect happy place until they stopped due to Covid-19 and lack of supply. I don’t know if the Armour has been bad for a long time and now that I’m no longer taking the Thyrogold as well if the Armour is just not cutting it or Armour is just bad. I feel like between the lack of strong porcine taste ( I take sublingual) is a tell-tale sign that something has changed for sure in the Armour. I go in two weeks to get my regular thyroid labs so we shall see! I will take the time to read through everyone’s posts here and get caught up.
Did you know that what happened to you could also happen by only staying on 2 grains? It’s far more common for that to be underdosing you. And underdosing eventually causes a return of hypo.
Thank you for your response Janie. It is very possible that I am underdosed right now especially without the supplementation of the Thyrogold. I got very ill in 2018 (about 2 years sick) with a high fever for a week followed by months of loss of appetite, low WBC and followed by anemia. I lost 35 lbs-40 lbs due to lack of appetite and a general ill feeling. Not sure what it was but during that time I was on 90mg Armour and my TSH shot up to 9.45 and even my T3 was off a bit but not as much. My doctor wanted to raise my dose but I was down to 109lbs (unheard of in my life) and really worried about having a higher dose and losing any more weight. Finally after I got my appetite back after 2 years of this mystery illness I had him raise me to the 120mg. Interestingly enough my cholesterol was high with the 9.45 TSH and I told the doctor once I get on a higher does of thyroid my cholesterol will be normal again. He chose to believe me and sure enough I was right. My next blood test my TSH went back to around 1.2 and my cholesterol was again normal however I was still anemic. I truly don’t think doctors realize just how much the whole body depends on the thyroid gland. I can definitely tell by my symptoms at this time that it is probably time to raise my dose but I’m battling heart palpitations right now and I worry that raising my dose will make them more severe. On the other hand perhaps the anemia is causing the heart palpitations and getting a higher dose will help with the anemia thus clearing the heart palpitations. Learning experience for all of us for sure.
Yeah. I haven’t felt well since naturethyroid years ago. I was switched to np in 2018 and weight started piling on. Then the cat pee smell and was switched to armour and I haven’t felt right since. On armour now, Lately, have zero energy, constioation, ice hands and feet, light headed, headaches, depression, suicidal ideation(I know that’s low t3). I know what it feels like to be more optimal and I’m not there. Just did labs today so we will see. My last script walgreens was out so I Got at Walmart and the pills were rock hard. I’m always suspicious when ndt goes out of stock or unavailable. Really don’t wanna switch to synthetic. Anyone have luck with Synthroid and cytomel? Cytomel always makes me feel racy, wired, then depleted after2-3 hrs. Naturethyroid was the best years ago. Temps very low, I’m feeling stupid, if that makes sense? Like I can’t think in my usual clear ways. Also, my hair has developed this knotting and tangling. Continued hair loss in large chunks. But I’ve never had this kind of dry, almost brittle hair. Just got it cut and using exoensive product but feel this is thyroid or iron? I just don’t feel “good” as I know is possible on thyroid meds. Ive had painfully dry skin, red and inflamed to the point of having to use mouisturizer 3x a day which is ridiculous as I’ve always had oily skin. Scalp itches and is dry. Michelle frost! Exact same issues, exactly. Last fill, the depression has me in its grip. Armour isn’t working. Or my adrenals are shot. Been drinking coffee the last year and lowering hc. Could be it? Ive been on hc for 10 years now. I cant seem to get optimized.
Armour works. But you do have to get optimal. And to get optimal, you have to have good iron and cortisol. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Just wondering have you any update on armour. It doesnt seem to be working for me the last few months. Have been on it for 6 years. All the old symptoms returning. Thanks
When something like this happens, we as informed patients check our free T3 and free T4 and see if they have maintained being optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal If they haven’t, we just raise the desiccated thyroid or in some cases T4 / T3 if someone is on synthetics.
Another possible issue: raising RT3. That can go up due to inflammation, high cortisol, and or low iron. So checking rt3 is another possibility. Where is it when people have healthy levels? It’s at the bottom part of the range if not below.
Hi Janie and all! Wondering if you perhaps have heard from RLC lab when WP will be available. I do follow Alan Christensen on IG and love most of his views but he does emphasize lots on TSH. Ive been on different forms of NDT for 20+ yrs but WP is the best absorbing form for me. Unfortunately wrapping up expensive Armour and going back to NP until WP is back. Thx for your time.
I keep an eye as best I can on the comments out there, and so far, I haven’t heard anything as to when WP will be back. I have heard a few comments about NP being back, but have also heard it still has the cat pee smell, which results in expressed concern by people.
Some thoughts on the questions posed above. The most important truths will actually answer them all in principle with the devil being clearly present in the details. All industries can only be successful if there is a need for their product. The love of money is the root of all evil, A healthy person is useless to a pharmaceutical company. A dying person is useless to them as well. Only people who live out their lives chronically ill are profitable. Also, please mark this: It is the pharmaceutical industry that produces the herbicides and pesticides for agriculture, the steroids, hormones and antibiotics for the livestock and also the colors flavors and preservatives for the food. So now we have the need and latter principle explains the rest. Think 10 billion dollars in profits in one year from antidepressants alone. Their responsibility is to merely maintain the delicate balance of keeping you minimally well and addicted to medications that have some small benefit, but are designed not to actually work. As sick people have children the genetic weaknesses brought on by systemic illness are passed onto another generation who now are more prone to illness. It is a monolithic evil that has positively gripped humanity and by the way is destroying the earth. All those drugs and toxic byproducts of sickness are entering and exiting our bodies into waste and purification systems that have been proven not to filter out the smaller molecules. One of these days the whole thing is going to implode and getting our sad scripts for levo will be the least of our problems.
Hi! Anyone have any insider info on when RLC labs will start making Nature Throid again? I’m struggling to find the right dose on Armour. 90 was too high and I’m alternating on 60/75. I know I have cortisol issues as well so I can’t figure out where I need to be dose wise. I have such anger over the labs messing with our pills. It has affected my life, like I’m sure many of you, so horribly. I’ve been ill for months trying to find correct doses.
Karen, it’s not that a paltry does of 90mg is too high. Most of us end up far higher than that to get optimal. It’s more about what it was revealing. Read this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
I have hypo thyroid and thrived on Armour for a decade, and switched when they changed formula and long time ago. Naturethroid with synthroid worked for me for a long time and I got sick when they changed. I am now trying compounded desiccated thyroid with synthroid and I am so jacked up. Every six weeks my dr has lowered my synthroid, but I still feel very hyper. My tsh reads as hyper and I am losing a lot of hair. I am incredible agitated and anxious and it is hard to tell how is due to medicine amd how much is due to covid world. One strange symptom is that I make lots of humming or almost moaning or sighing noises when I am alone. I know this is really strange. I wonder if this is because the compounded dessicated is so strong and I am so uncomfortable. Has anyone ever experienced this? It is incredibly troubling amd has been going on for months.
Hi Brenda. I’m sorry to read what you were going through.
I do want to tell you that we as patients, for years now, have found it never to be a good idea to add T4 to NDT. NDT is already 80% T4. So adding T4 to what is already 80% T4 can end up raising RT3. Why? The body doesn’t like having excess T4, and starts clearing out the excess.
Next, we have noticed that if we add T4 to what is already 80%, we now can’t raise the NDT enough to get the right levels of free T3, because raising again also raises to too much free T4.
Of course, some can choose to add a very teeny amount of T4 to NDT. But why when NDT all by itself works fine with raises to make our free T4 and free T3 optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
In your case, being jacked can be about the release of adrenaline due to having a cortisol problem now. I’m making that supposition, as another patient, because Naturethroid was so bad for so long, a lot of users were getting stressed adrenals. i.e. too high, or too low, or mixed levels, of a cortisol problem. And when we have a cortisol problem, we will feel jacked up with the use of T3 in our treatment.
Part of the reason we can feel jacked up with an adrenal problem is that the free T3 starts pooling: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling so we now have a mix of excessed adrenaline, rising T3 in the blood and worsening hypothyroidism as well since pooling means the T3 isn’t getting to the cells
Getting RT3 tested has become a must for us over the years because of issues which can cause it to go up too much. Those issues include being on too much t4, but can also include low iron, inflammation, and/or high cortisol.
here’s the page I created over the years based on patient observations as to where our lab results should be in those ridiculous “normal” ranges: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values
Oh and by the way, it is perfectly natural and normal for the TSH to go quite low when we have T3 in our treatment. It is not hyper the way it can be for those with Graves disease. Doctors are so sorely misinformed about this. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
Like many of you, I discussed with my physician (NP in my case) what to do going forward with the Nature Throid recall. She switched me to Armour. I called my pharmacy and they had to special order it as I’m on a hefty dose (120 mg). When I went to pick it up, I discovered that it was NP Thyroid. Apparently my insurance considers NP Thyroid to be a generic equivalent of Armour and switched it. Weird because I had asked my NP and she assured me that if she prescribed Armour, I would get Armour and not a generic equivalent.
In any event, I’m wondering if it is generally recommended to get thyroid levels rechecked after switching between different brands – even though I’m not going from synthetic to natural or natural to synthetic. If so, what’s the usual time period? 6 weeks?
Still kind of bummed I didn’t get what my NP ordered and I realize I could now switch again, but leanings towards sticking with the NP Thyroid for now.
The pharmacy did the switch because they make more money. And we find it disgusting that they do that. This is why we recommend everyone look carefully at what is handed to them, and say NO WAY if you don’t want what you got, before leaving.
As far as sticking with what was rightly recalled…so far, we’ve not had good reports yet on those who are picking up NP today. It sill has the cat pee smell, for one, and that has been turning people off. But it’s always up to you.
By the way 120mg is definitely not a hefty dose. It’s too low for the majority by reports and observations. Hardly anyone gets optimal on that. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I was able to get a bottle of Nature Throid through my doctors office. I wasn’t aware that they were back in production yet. Perhaps it is a bottle of the recalled? In any event, the recalled was working for me just fine – so either way, I don’t really care. It is the 1 grain dose, so I just have to double up to get 2 grains.
For what it’s worth, there were a small body of people who thought they continued to do good on the changed Naturethroid, and their labs proved otherwise. That usually meant their cortisol was going higher and higher, and over time, everything backfired. The individuality was when they backfired. Lots of reported experiences on that.
Hashimotos for 27 years. Undiagnosed for 10. years. Do not remember bringing up my children. Started with Armour finally being diagnosed. Then NP after finding that Armour had changed. Worked perfectly. Was at 5 grains when I heard about that change,but kept taking it, About 4 months ago, I was so sick, I asked for Armour again. 1st few weeks were fine, but now my stomach is burning, throat is burning and tight, with pain radiating up into my ears and, neck. My hear palpitions are much worse. I am 60 years old. What to do?
Michelle, is it possible that your pharmacy switched the Armour for NP again? They tend to do that without telling customers since they make a better profit. And your symptoms are very similar to what was going on with NP.
No, it definitely Armour. I am getting tests soon. I was just wondering if Armour was going south again. I know I have cortisol issues. I have been dealing with several heartbreaking and stressful situations for years with no resolution in this life and there are days when I simply cannot function. There people that I must care for and I feel it essential that I rule this out first. Also, I am mortified to admit this, but I am a high functioning alcoholic [ 30 years ], so, I know I have gut issues. Any thoughts on that [ healing the digestive tract ] and how I could go about doing that. I have reduced my intake of alcohol to half and am fully intending to be free from that crutch in the next several months. There is a laundry list of other issues, that I am dealing with, but these are the big ones. Thanks for listening. Your work has been so helpful to me in legitimizing the terrible journey with this disease and the flagrant incompétence with which we are treated. Prozac and birth control pills anyone?
Yes, it could be all the stress you are under that is causing problems.
We have had a handful of patients having problems after picking up a new prescription of Armour. But we can’t yet tell if it’s due to cortisol issues, or low iron, or stress, or Armour.
As far as the gut, ask your doctor for a stool test that will reveal gut issues. You could also do the Great Plains Organic Acids test (OAT). It’s very worth it to correct gut issues.
Thank you so much.
I finally got my iron labs back and my doctor says they are fine. Does this look fine!?
TIBC 248 (range 250 – 450) flagged as low
UIBC 125 (range 131 – 425)
Iron 123 (range 27 – 159)
Iron Sat. 50 (range 15 – 55)
Ferritin 62 (range 15 – 150)
No, they are not fine. Iron is too high for a woman as compared those women who’s iron is fine (around 110ish). Saturation is high, but that’s because your TIBC is low. % sat is obtained from dividing the iron by the TIBC (in your case, the UIBC). So when we find ourselves with a higher iron compared to where woman are when iron is great, we may have a problem with this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/mthfr
Thanks Janie! I am heterozygous for 677.
Hmmm I can see why docs don’t want to treat with hormones..so many varied responses!
I was taking half a 65mg/ whatever pill of Naturethroid..feeling great, hair growing back, fingernails for the first time in DECADES when they pulled it. The accella product was WAY more expensive and I am taking 3/4 instead of one half. hair breaking, nails gone, weight gain..slumping in the after noon again.
I do realize the medicine is sensitive to moisture and loses potency from the first pill to the last..a dessicant packet helps/ So whats the latest?
While cleaning out my cabinets, I came across 9 bottles of tainted NP, different doses. Approximately $400.00 out of pocket. The more I stared at them, the angrier I became. I wrote an email to Acella slamming them for my loss of hard earned money, my deteriorating health, and anger. I received an email from 2 pharmacists there asking me a bunch of questions. I talked to them on the phone. The one swore the medication has been corrected, and they are now producing a product that is the same as the old NP. In good faith, she sent a new bottle of 60 mg pills to my pharmacy so I can see the change.
HA! I picked up the bottle so giddy, thinking we’re back to normal. Took one pill (it was a sealed bottle from Acella w/ ex. of 2022), and there it was. The stinging, poison taste on my tongue. What a joke. What a disappointment. What a nightmare. I was so angry I fired off the most inappropriate email I had ever written.
I’m just tired of this. Why can’t it be like it was? I did so well on NP. I’m going off to have a good cry. Thanks for letting me vent here.
This is exactly what I was afraid of. I am with you in the disappointment.
Our body are just raw material to sell us drugs. Hypothyroidism is a gold mine. Depression, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, sex hormone disruption, obesity, fatigue etc… Look up the numbers for prescriptions written for these issues. It’s jaw dropping. It is estimated that collectively the pharmaceutical industry profits 10 billion dollars a year on antidepressants alone. A good NDT will take all that away. So there. I find it disturbing that people could really be that evil. But the war on a drug that has been with us since 1893 that could not be patented, works completely and with the most benign ingredients imaginable says all you need to know about the motive. They now have all the power they need to go on like this indefinitely. Any dissenting voice is quickly silenced and the tools to offer alternatives are all in their hands.
Talked to a compounding pharmacist today and he looked it up and porcine will be available first week of February. Have you also heard anything about this? If accurate, it is great news.
Thanks again for what you do.
According to PCCA here in Houston, porcine has been on back order and will be ready by mid February pending an analysis. They supply the compounding pharmacies.
The pharmacy questions why WP is not covered by insurance. (Also note-I was originally prescribed Armour. Granted, it took me shaming my doctor to write the script after I had reluctantly accepted the synthetic for 8 weeks, but then the pharmacy changed the script to WP.) I believe I had the same payment issue with Armour.
This is a weird question but if anyone would know you would know. Have you ever seen frequent urination urge, especially at night, be due to underdosing or overdosing of thyroid medication. I just started Armour 5 days ago and it coinciding with rapid heartbeat at night and the feeling I need to urinate without much coming out. Super weird but I went to the doctor on Friday and took UTI test and was given antibiotics while I wait for results because I can’t sleep. So far it appears to be getting worse and not better. Any chance it’s thyroid related?
A typical starting dose is one grain or 60 mg for most of us. And we are meant to raise by the second week at 1/2 grain in search of the dose that makes our free T4 and free T3 optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
But to avoid problems, which you seem to be already having, it’s a good thing to study this page carefully: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
March 2020 my compounding pharmacy could no longer get the ingredients to make my thyroid rx. They gave me naturethroid. Over the next two months I put on 20 pounds, hair fell out, my feet swelled so bad I could barely walk etc etc. My pcp ordered labs. My tsh is good around 1 but was at 6 and she does total which was 117. However, my hormone levels were all very high. I don’t take replacement therapy. She put me on Synthroid and gradually many of my serious symptoms faded. She refused to put me on T3 so my NMD did. I take .088 mcg and 10 T3. I’m not optimal feeling but labs are where I should feel great historically. I walk 3 miles a day watch my diet but cannot lose a pound. I was poisoned by that medication. The lab is close to me but never took my call. I find it now so disturbing they were producing and selling a more than subpar medicine and finally recalled. I feel like I’m in limbo. Ps had cortisol and iron etc tested. All normal. Thanks for being with us. Carole
Cortisol is not about blood testing. See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/saliva-cortisol
And you don’t sound optimal as to your free T3 and free T4. Here’s information: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Your take on a TSH of 0.034, Free T4, .086, history of thyroid cancer with whole thyroidectomy in 1992. On a compounded formula now.
Hair falling out and joint pain…
Meds now: T4 40.8mcg, T3 9.7mcg..
Hi Joanne. Here’s a page that shows what we’ve learned repeatedly as to where our free T4 and free T3 need to be: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
We also have to make sure that our cortisol and iron is optimal. If cortisol is messed up, our free T3 tends to go high, called pooling: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
If iron isn’t where it should be, our RT3 goes up. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron and https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
When trying to find a new working medicine for hypothyroidism, is it expected that you will have some unpleasant side effects during the adjustment period? I really want Armour to work and I usually get short of breath from it and now leg cramps. I’m wondering if I give it more time it might adjust. How do you know if something is still adjusting (dose or otherwise) or it’s not for you? I’ve gotten the leg cramps every time I try synthetic t3/t4 and it makes it hard to sleep and then hard to function. Any chance it’s a side effect of not being optimal? I had decent labs but not optimal on anything and I think that I’m sensitive to medicines meaning a little makes a big difference. My last iron test had an error so retesting tomorrow at the doctor and getting her to write a prescription for another cortisol test. ZRT doesn’t not process California without a doctor note.
That isn’t the result of Armour directly. It’s the result of what it reveals. Read all of this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
I’m interested in knowing what would be the best generic brand of t3. Cytomel is too expensive
I personally love Sigma Pharm. But I also accidentally didn’t read what the pharmacy gave me the last time—Greenstone. But I’m doing okay on it.
Weird question. Since going off NatureThroid because of the recall and being put on NP Thyroid my curly hair has gone straight! I am 68 and this has never happened before! Very, very strange. Nothing else has changed in diet, exercise and I take no other medications. Has this happened to anyone else?
NP was also recalled and for good reason. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/2020/09/20/2020-the-year-of-desiccated-thyroid-recalls/
If there are all these recalls. . .what are doctor’s prescribing that is natural. I CANNOT take the synthetic and Armour is so expensive! I saw such a price increase from NatureThroid to NP Thyroid and now to have to go to Armour? Wow!
Bonnie, are you saying you can’t take synthetics because of a bad experience with being on T4-only? Because being synthetic is not the problem. Being on nothing but T4 is the problem. So a lot of patients are using both T4 and T3, and working to achieve what’s on this page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I took naturthroid about 12 years ago only because I wanted as natural as possible. Then I had thyroid removed and was put on synthroid.
never liked it so added a t-3. overall not working and the docs. want only to go by test numbers. they don’t listen to you and say well it’s fibro. or arthritis. interesting how they never test further or understand how the body really works. so I am going to see if my new dr. will get me armour or the like. this one is more naturopathically minded. even a naturopath I went to recently never mentioned switching meds.
T3 works if you get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal So the problem are the doctors you are going to, not the T3. We’ve all been there. You just have to work harder to find one to let you get optimal.
Hi, Bonnie. I’ve also had my hair get wavier or straighter, depending on which
thyroid drug I’m on, and how much. I don’t know why this happens, but it sure
does on me. It IS weird, because I’d always thought the type of hair you have
is simply inherited….apparently, thyroid meds can change it, at least on some of us.
NP Thyroid has had a lot of problems in the last couple of years–maybe it can’t
even give your hair the body it needs to curl as it normally does.
When Naturethroid turned on me in July of 2019 my hair got frizzier and softer before it started to fall out and then joint pain, etc followed. Doctors say it takes 3 months for a medication to start affecting your hair but I can tell within three days. I’ve jumped around on different thyroid medications since then still trying to find the right medication without side effects and hair changes usually mean I am going in the wrong direction. I have only seen hair texture written as a hypothyroid symptom once. I would imagine that your hair change is a result of the medication. When a medication is working for me my naturally straight hair stays straight and feels thicker, otherwise I need to use a straightener to calm it down. Do you feel the same physically?
I was on Naturethroid for over 7 years. A few years back, my doctor “thought” I would be better off on WP Thyroid. I went into a severe flare up a few months of being on WP and then I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. It was then I realized the WP wasn’t working and once I got back on Naturethroid, Surprise! My thyroid stabilized and I was feeling better. So here we are in 2020 and my pharmacist told me that Naturethroid was having issues with its potency. I said I felt fine. I went to my doctor a couple months later, September, and she said she would like to put me on NP Thyroid “just in case” potency was a problem. Well, here I am in December ten pounds heavier despite my daily workouts, intermittent fasting, juicing and Eeeeeeeverything else I’ve been doing for the past decade or so to keep me feeling good. STOP F*G WITH THE THYROID MEDICINE! If a patient is having no symptoms, feels great, then leave them alone! I’m calling my doctor on Monday and getting myself back on the Naturethroid!
You want to get back on what was causing patients problems (as they constantly posted about) and was recalled for good reason? Good luck.
Good luck. RLC is not currently shipping any WP or NT at this time. Check their site.
Also, do know that some can report having no symptoms, feel they are doing great, and then go south on a recalled NDT. We have seen that a lot. Just an FYI.
I was on nature throid of 12 years with great success and only recently switched to NP due to recall. Unfortunately it’s just too expensive and I just found out Nature throid is BACK so I just refilled my prescription. Should I be concerned or relieved? I would also just like to point out I exercise 7 days per week and avoid all dairy, gluten, and artificial sugar and that has been a game changer as well!
We’re not sure yet. I can only speak for myself, but I would personally avoid it until an awful lot of people have tried it, and reported on whether it’s working for them or not, and whether it’s getting their frees optimal and RT3 stays down. But that’s me.
I just came from the pharmacy and they said that the NT has no date on being av.
Which pharmacy did you use? If you don’t mind me asking.
Thank you 🙂
Women’s international pharmacy
Thank you Jessica. I’ve never heard of them but hopefully I’ll have good luck! Happy New Year 🙂
I just filled my prescription for NP Thyroid at my local pharmacy (it has continued to work for me) and was shocked at the rise in price. I called Walmart and got a price FIFTY DOLLARS less than my local pharmacy ($125+ versus $173+) and when I informed my local pharmacy they changed their price to $135+. In other words, they were willing to gouge me, a disabled woman living on Social Security, for their own $50 profit. One thing I have learned during the pandemic: I no longer feel any compunction about NOT shopping locally. My local stores have not enforced mask wearing or social distancing, and I no longer care whether they survive or not. I don’t like big-box stores but generally in my state they have been much better about requiring that people wear masks.
Susan, it honestly may not still be working for you. It was recalled and for good reason. And the risk you now have is rising cortisol, which will eventually fall to low–all because it’s been so problematic as revealed by patient reports. Be careful. Check your frees and RT3. And study this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Janie- any idea how long the revising cortisol could last before it drops? Wonder if it is weeks or months.
Hi Lynn. Not sure what you mean? Did something type wrong?
Sorry, I was asking how long the rising cortisol could last before it starts to fall. Could she be feeling good for a year before it falls? What is typical?
Ah, I see. It’s very individual!! And we don’t really know as STTM is about reported patient experiences, and no one has stated for sure when their high cortisol started. But for me, there are many times in my life I suspect high cortisol, but nothing bad happened at first. Today, my high cortisol can drop to low later in just a week or less.
Hi, Janie. I’m having trouble getting my numbers from my direct care (!) provider recommended on breastcancerchoices.com. (I intend to un-recommend him.) I am seriously considering trying the online docs, then I can go to any PCP for the rest of my “care.” But last thing my current PCP told me was that my free T4, which had been low, had gone into normal range after he increased my NP from 4 grains to 5 grains (which I did slowly as usual). My problems are so far beyond my hypothyroidism as to be tedious. I have a mess on my abdomen from infected mesh being put in me, and when I speak with disinterested doctors they recommend doing nothing as I could end up in worse shape. And a year ago my husband’s poor self care (he’s an RN, isn’t that typical) has led to even more stress for me, which I am slowly recovering from. I have low cortisol which I can monitor through symptoms, and I don’t know how much better I can ever be carrying around an 18-year-old internal infection. My husband has received the same poor care as the butchers who carved me up — I call them Drs Todd, though at least Sweeney killed his victims — after a year we still don’t know much about what caused his blackouts, but a nurse practitioner/naturopath is at least exhibiting concern and getting him appointments unlike our PCP who could seemingly care less. After I let the butchers off the hook by not suing, I plan on contacting a lawyer for my husband as soon as we have a diagnosis. I hope you and your family are doing well and staying safe!
Susan, why are you still on an NDT that was recalled and for good reasons? Did you read what still works in the blog post?
Janie, every time I’ve taken Armour after running out of NP I feel like absolute garbage. And years ago when my naturopath put me on compounded synthetic T3 and T4 (more about that later), I literally could sit in a chair and watch my temperature — taken with a mercury thermometer — go down, down, down. I seem to do okay on NP and my free T3 and free T4 numbers are in normal range, though I do not know if the T3 is at the high end. When I was on 4 grains NP, it was in about the middle, and now I am on 5 grains. Why did my previous practitioner put me on that incredibly expensive compounded stuff? She was in a group and another naturopath had his patient on it, and when I spoke to the compounding pharmacist he told me that the woman taking it was taking a HUGE amount of it. Well, no wonder if her experience was similar to mine. I did find that NP was leaving a wad of paper in my mouth — always take it sublingually — and spoke to someone at Acella and now the entire tablet dissolves, no paper. If you have a better idea than Armour or synthetic, I’d be interested.
Hi Susan. Your reaction to Armour and or T4/T3 is explained here, and it’s corrective: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Hi Janie – I tried Armour Thyroid again this morning after three months off of it because I really, really want it to work. Again, I am having the labored breathing thing. Feels like I am short of breath. Knowing that it works for so many I am going through the ingredients and comparing them to Naturethroid and NP which I did great on until the reformation. Have you ever heard of Sodium Starch Glycolate being a challenge for someone? It doesn’t seem to be in NP either so maybe that is my challenge. As far as I know, I am not allergic to corn or celiac. Corn, Potato and wheat show no sensitivity on Everlywell Food sensitivity Test.
Hi Lynn. Never heard of Sodium Starch GLycolate being a problem.
Remember that reactions to Armour can be because of having been on a problematic NDT like NP (or Naturethroid or WP) which can cause a cortisol problem, and the Armour being stronger can reveal that. Also can reveal rising RT3 due to low iron.
Thanks Janie – have you ever heard of shortness of breath being attributed to low iron or cortisol? I have an iron test coming this week. Any idea of who else will do a saliva cortisol besides ZRT? I used them in January and now they don’t ship to Los Angeles for some reason.
Usually, shortness of breath is related to hypothyroidism. So if you have low iron (which can raise rt3 and make you more hypo) or a cortisol problem (which makes it near impossible to raise T3 to optimal because the free T3 instead is just pooling), they can contribute to the shortness of breath.
Thanks Janie! I feel like a cat chasing my tail.
I was doing very well on Naturethroid until the recall. My doc switched me to Armour my hypo symptoms have returned. I am gaining weight so fast. I am exhausted all the time. My joints hurt and my feet hurt. I am miserable. And this isn’t the first time Armour has done me wrong. I had a TT about six years ago. I don’t think I could feel worse if I just didn’t take anything. This is ridiculous that this is even happening. Not to mention that Armour costs an outrageous amount just to make me feel horrible and fat. I am so aggravated. I cannot take synthetics and I don’t want Armour.
Hi VJ. Your problems are not directly about Armour. They can be because you are underdosed, and/or Armour is also revealing that you now have an iron problem and/or cortisol problems from having been on the now-recalled Naturethroid. Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Switched about two months ago from Cytomel to Armour. The Armour does seem to be working better for me but my hair seems to be falling out and I wonder if it’s because now I’m getting too much T4. I read one case study suggesting T4 was the culprit for hair thinning. Is there another T3/T4 med that is a little lower on T4 and higher on T3? Or would I have to go compound? I read somewhere that Armour is about 80% T4 and 20% T3.
Read this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thank you Janie, I did, but I’m not sure what you meant for me to see in there. My iron is fine. I’m just wondering if there’s a brand out there that’s closer to 50/50 T3/T4. Seems all the T3/T4 combination meds have a similar makeup, but maybe there’s ones I don’t now about.
All NDT’s are 80/20. And they work. It’s not about too much T4. NDT has, in fact, less T4 than a human thyroid makes. The most common causes of hair loss are
1) being underdosed See https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
2) Low iron (go to the lab values page and compare the iron results that you think are fine: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values)
3) detoxing can cause hair loss
4) Dybiosis (too much bad bacteria) or SIBO (too much bacteria in the wrong place in the intestines) can cause hair loss
And more. But focus especially on #1 and #2
This is the study I had found in which Levothyroxine overdose was the culprit for hair loss. I do have a genetic polymorphism which prevents my T4 from converting properly to T3, thus why I’m a little suspicious I might be getting too much T4 with the Armour. But I’m also reading many people have hair loss during the first few months on Armour so maybe I should just be patient. I think I’ll give it a few more weeks and then get labs. https://www.ijem.in/article.asp?issn=2230-8210;year=2019;volume=23;issue=6;spage=652;epage=653;aulast=Yerawar;type=3
Actually, nearly two decades of experience don’t show Armour to directly cause hairloss. Instead, the T4 in Armour can be converting to RT3 due to low iron, which makes us more hypo, thus hair loss. Armour can also reveal a cortisol problem, too. And the T4 in Armour is far less than in a human thyroid.
Am finally heading towards optimal on 3 1/2 grains of Armour, after failing badly on defunct Naturethroid in 2018, then NP in 2019. Thank goodness for that, but this still has affected my life in a significant detrimental way, as I was basically out of commission for well over a year. But wow, I just found this. Plus that lawsuit…sounds like they are in some deep trouble! Unfortunate, but seems like it needed to happen
Thanks for this info. I feel like I’m in a conundrum because my July 2020 labs were good but my FT3 was high(typically ok with that) and I was feeling warm all the time. I was on 50 mcg of T3 and 120 mg if NP so I cut the T3 in half. RT3 was spot on. That worked, no more breaking out into sweats and running hot. But now, my November labs show my RT3 3 points below range, my FT 3 is BELOW range (not even in range) my FT4 is below range. WTH? Other than packing on some weight (but I have been eating more) I haven’t noticed a lot of hypo symptoms yet. How did it all go to hell so fast?? Is ultra low RT3 an issue?
NP Thyroid hasn’t been working right for 1 1/2 years. That’s why it was recalled. And a recall of a product is something to pay attention to. The article tells you what patients have switched to.
Here’s an informational page that can explain the high FT3: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling i.e. you may have a cortisol problem that needs attention. Here’s the saliva cortisol test we do: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/
Oh my I am so relieved to find this page and blog and I’ve been suffering so awfully! It’s helpful to see I’m not alone. I was just a little hypo and dancing along happily on 81.25 of Nature Throid up to the dreaded recall. Switched to 90 of Armour and Within days I ran 101.5 fever ( thought I had covid- did not) rapid scary heart rate, heart rate would shoot up while exercising, palps, diarrhea, rapid major weight loss and I was slightly underweight to begin with, anxiety through the roof, ER visit thought I was having a heart attack etc etc. Continued to run low grade fevers the entire 6 weeks I was on it. Couldn’t take anymore so doc told me to go back to old nature throid even though it was recalled but cut in half, so 40 ish. Been on that for a couple weeks and last week I completely crashed. Adrenally. Felt like the flu, couldn’t move, take care of my children. Years ago I came off 5 years of steroids for Lupus and had a major adrenal crash and this was the same. I have since gone back to 81.25 but I am literally terrified. Still feel awful. My TSH is swinging back up after being low for years, I don’t know what to do when I run out… I feel like I’ll never recover. My adrenals are tanked I’m sure. Going to run saliva test soon even though my a.m cortisol blood work was “fine”. My question: when I run out of pills, do you suggest compounded t4/t3? Or can I just do compounded t3? Or is there a known glandular that is worth trying ? I’m so over this. My life is upended. I’m a fitness instructor and can’t work bc I’m afraid to relapse adrenally again. It took my body 2 years to recover after the prednisone withdrawal. And I was on adrenal glandulars! Any advice and help is appreciated … hang in there everyone 🙂
Hi Karen. This happens to a lot of people who had been on a recalled NDT (including having been underdosed), then moving to a strong and good NDT like Armour. i.e. Armour will reveal the adrenal problem from being on a recalled NDT. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
And we have learned repeatedly NOT to guess and to get that Saliva test done!! Then treat what it shows. https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/
Chapter 6 in the updated revision STTM book explains how to treat what saliva shows. https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
P.S. Patient were reporting problems on Naturethroid for TWO years both here and in various online groups!!
Thank you for responding! Any advice on what I should switch to after my saliva results?
Not sure what you mean about what to switch to? If you mean thyroid meds, the article explains what still works. But when one has a cortisol problem, we often have to stay lower to prevent reactions because of the cortisol problem.
So if I had to try the Armour again, you’d suggest 60? Since 90 made me hyper and kicked off adrenal issues? Or what about a thyroid supplement? Or a lower T4/T3 compounded?
Hi Karen. 90mg doesn’t “kick off adrenal issues”. It can “reveal” adrenal issues. Maybe you meant the same thing? 🙂 So when a dose does that, we as patients just tend to go lower to an amount that doesn’t, while we treat the adrenal issue.
So lower meaning lower dose of Armour? Like 60 since 90 made me hyper and wrecked adrenals? Or a lower compounded t4/t3?
I promised in the WP Thyroid post that I would report back with an update. I have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis that was well controlled for many years using WP Thyroid (original, trusted version). I have been on the AIP diet protocol since 2014, and had stopped eating gluten and dairy several years prior to that. When the WP was on backorder and the new batch of Naturethroid left me undertreated, I searched pharmacies high and low to get what was left of the original WP. When that ran out, I had my naturopath prescribe compounded porcine thyroid, first in microcrystalline cellulose in a vegetable capsule, the same 1/2 grain dosage. My thyroid labs tanked. Having read that the cellulose excipient could inhibit thyroid absorption, I switched to a lactobacillus filler. I even dumped the contents under the tongue as I had done with the WP tablets, letting it dissolve there. The labs did not rebound. Consequently, I developed a thyroid and a parathyroid nodule, gained weight, lost a lot of hair, and had persistent brain fog and low energy. I had two needle biopsies last fall which revealed the nodules to be benign. I became convinced that the porcine thyroid supply worldwide was compromised in quality, so in November 2019 I had my doctor prescribe compounded synthetic thyroid (T3 7 mcg / T4 28 mcg). I pay $93 for a 90-day supply. The nodules soon shrank, my hair grew back, and my energy and brain function began to restore itself. Six months later, my labs (TSH, FT4, FT3, reverse T3) returned to within range with the exception of the thyroid antibodies, but even they are moving in the right direction. My doctor boosted the T4 to 30 mcg. Concurrently, I began addressing candida with caprylic acid supplementation. I also restarted selenium, D3, and zinc/copper supplements in addition to the magnesium glycinate I’d already been taking. Of note, since beginning the synthetic thyroid compound I have experienced persistent sleep issues, waking at 3 AM-ish with difficulty returning to sleep, despite practicing good sleep hygiene (lights low, avoiding PM screen time, avoiding eating or exercising too late, etc.). And I do have concern about the increased breast cancer risk with levothyroxine, and I hesitate to get mammograms because it causes the hypothyroid to flare. Also of note: A few months into the pandemic I began noticing hair loss again, although this could be due to the fact that I am washing and brushing it far less frequently. Time will tell. Thanks for reading and for sharing your experiences. I wish everyone the best with your thyroid health. Thank you, Janie, for this very important resource.
It has taken me 18 years to get to the point where I am somewhat stable on my thyroid meds. I used the information in the first edition of “Stop the Thyroid Madness” to get my primary care to test free T3, etc. Because of recalls and other issues, the solution for me at this point is Synthroid for T4 and compounded, extended release T3. Problem is, Synthroid is expensive since the co-pay has increased a lot as it has moved up in drug insurance tiers over the last few years (why, I don’t know, since that drug has been on the market for decades, and pharmacists recommend against the generics). But, problems with irregular potencies of generics made that bad for me. The compounded, extended release capsules are not cheap, either. At this point, I can afford the drugs but it makes me mad that I need to do that. My functional medicine wants to increase T3, which I will be discussing with her soon. I have dealt with hypothyroidism for the last 30 years (went through 3-4 docs that took the position “you are in the normal range”). I hope the people reading this blog get the help they need……
I just switched from Nature Throid to NP Thyroid because Nature Throid is not currently available. On Day 7, I experienced severe dizziness and headache. At that point, I went online to look at the possible side effects of NP Thyroid and severe dizziness was listed. I have now gone 2 days without taking anything and have improved but am still not 100%.
Eileen, did you not read the article? NP Thyroid was recalled due to a lot of problems. And if you are truly hypo, it will come back. Read the article as to what two treatments are still working, too.
I have a question.o have hashis. It’s been well controlled. I’m in Australia, and on the porcine powder. I recently got a prescription refill, actually last week,and started having hyper symptoms.
Red skin, heart palpitations, out if breath, wired, and feeling awful. I didn’t recognise it straight away. I’ve stopped my meds completely,, I’m starting to feel better, the heart palpitations have stopped, and feeling less wired, but I’m still a funny colour, and I’m scared I will have a crash from no meds. I’m too scared to take it.
Might want to ask whoever gave that to you if they changed suppliers. Sounds awful. Maybe it’s time to be on T4 and T3 and get your frees optimal.
Suzanne J Tanzyus
Another question is, when and if at all will Nature Throid be back on the market?
To settle the afternoon fatigue issue, my endocrinologist allows me to take 15 mg (or really 16.25 which is 1/2 of a 32.5 tablet) at around noontime several days each week. She knows that T3 is used up right away and is not released slowly like T4. I first started taking the noon dose 3x/week then slowly moved to 5x/week. Plenty of energy, no heart palpitations at rest and able to sleep very well. To make sure I’m getting the proper dose in a split pill (as when you split a pill you are not certain one side has the same amount of T3/T4 as the other half) she would have me cut 1 pill at a time for the noontime dose and use the other 1/2 the next day. I used to cut my noontime pills all at once when I received my new bottle for the month so not a good idea she said.
How much WP did you take before the back order? I’m convinced that the porcine powder is bad as well. I tried porcine with and without filler with no luck.
Hi Lynn, I took the 1/2 grain strength of WP (and Nature Throid) (19 mcg T4, 4.5 mcg T3) and had done superbly on it for years until the backorder. Sorry to hear you experienced the same with porcine.
Also, I forgot to mention in my post that the nodules developed at the time of the weight gain and hair loss, of course.
Dana, hardly a soul will do superbly on only 1/2 grain. Is is possible you aren’t truly hypothyroid?
What is the Australian NDT called? I have been on eutrixsig (levothyroxine sodium) for 20 years due to papillary carcinoma and thyroidectomy. I’ve noticed a less than optimum thyroid function and after reading up on what isn’t in it want to try a NDT.
Hi Rebekah. It’s just called compounded desiccated thyroid.
I went to pick up Armour for the first time in years. $144 for 3 month (97.5 mg) 1.5 grain size. Is that a normal price? I usually paid $25 for 3 months of the RLC or Westhryoid.
The price went up years ago. Greed.
I think mine was about $160 for 3 months….and that was with about $20 insurance credit. they wouldn’t take Good RX or Single Care (WalMart) so I was stuck. But I’m so happy that it’s working for me. Just tested last week and doc wants me to continue on it (he wasn’t a fan before). Yippeee.
Hi–I was on NatureThroid and doing okay, though not great, prior to the recall. Doc switched me to NP Thyroid a couple of months ago. It seems okay, except that I have developed a rash on my trunk, front and back. It is very itchy. Could this be from the NP or is it something else? thanks.
I’m just wondering if Armour really is working….I’ve always done well on it and for the last few months my symptoms have returned and it’s bad. As bad as it was when I first got diagnosed back in 2014. My FT4 was 0.7 and TSH was higher than it’s been since being originally diagnosed. Normally it’s like 0.005 or something which has always freaked out my doctors but I had optimal numbers for a long time until recently and have felt good and normal until the last few months. I am struggling big time. I am currently trying to find a doctor that would work with me maybe with the synthetic T3/T4 combo. It’s just really frustrating to feel so bad, especially after experiencing normal functioning for so long.
Katie, have you tested your RT3?? Something may have driven that up to cause this.
I’m wondering if more recent Armour IS working also. I had found an old fill from October of 2019 that worked pretty darn well. I’d have liked my FT4 to have been a little higher, but all else good and I felt reasonably well. The fill I got last month appears to be crap. Oddly enough same experience with earlier compounded and the compounded fill from October.
Hi Angela. It may not be crap. It just may be different, and you’d need to raise until your free T3 is optimal (top area of range).
I was on Nature thyroid and always had some hair loss but because of high T3 and recall was switched to
Armour at a lower dose. I am really scared at the amount of hair I am losing . I had Covid for a bit too so I don’t know what the cause is. What would be the cause of a lot of hair loss.
If you had a high Free T3 on Naturethroid and still had symptoms, then it’s worth exploring this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling Since Naturethroid was keeping too many people hypo, that can result in adrenal stress for some.
An additional cause of hair loss: low iron https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron
The shock for me has been the rise in price since NP thyroid and the others were recalled.
My cost used to be $45 for one prescription. For the same amount in Armour, I was charged $180. That’s a 400% increase during a pandemic.
Does anyone know why the price was quadrupled?
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s at age 62, female 3 years ago and was in excellent health all my life. I started with Levothyroxine. I switched to Armour but it left a terrible taste in my mouth. I then changed to Nature-Thyroid and using this med for about 18-24 months. My urine and feces smell awful every time. I even asked the pharmacy to change the meds in mid-summer thinking it was a bad batch. I have a problem with weight, my hair still falls out and I’ve been having stronger heart palpations. Also, food sometimes tastes different and also feel like I lost some of my sense of smell.
Naturethroid was recalled for a good reason. Might want to consider not putting up with what it’s doing to you. There is also the option of T4/T3 and getting optimal.
I’m new here…what option are you speaking of? It’s all these recalls and inconsistent dosing/ingredients that has me staying off any type of natural thyroid at this time. Still on Levo and though I don’t feel great, I feel it’s at least consistent 🙁
Hi. Reread the article. Both Armour and T4/T3 are working if you get your frees optimal. 🙂 https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I have my half of hyperthyroidism gland removed while I was at my late twenty. I have been taking synthetic thyroxine for the longest time. My doctor will not hear about the side effect, and it was on and off taking my medicine in order to control it periodically. Finally, doctor ordered twice the radio iodine treatment to kill all my remaining thyroid gland. Right after, he continues to prescribe synthetic medication for hypothyroid which I have to keep tolerate the side effect of diarrhea for quite a while. I finally go to another family doctor who prescribe nature thyroid. Initially it was doing fine until I have to struggle with short supplied, and recall and not getting the medicine at all. In-between I have to take synthetic thyroxine to tie over the problem. (Diarrhea continue)
Recent recall of nature thyroid medication drive me to take Armor thyroid instead, however, I need 81.25 MG, which do not compile with the standard unit how an Armor Thyroid is made.(Armor thyroid comes in 60MG) Somehow, I have to take one and a half tablet which the tablet is hard to break into half.
In addition, both latest Nature Thyroid and Amor Thyroid are giving me the rash, itch, and I suspect also giving me the diarrhea. As such, can anyone help me how should I get my medication at the moment, if I cannot even get WP thyroid to try and see if I am okay with it. Please help…Thanks!!!
Also, please read this article that matched my conditions also, and at the end they had mentioned about “purified form of thyroxine” , not sure what was it???
I really would rather switch to either armour or np but my ND says she cannot prescribe it and my endo will only give me Unithroid.. I am so frustrated as they keep saying my levels are good but I do not feel good! On top of it all my adrenals are shot and barely producing cortisol. I am tired all of the time, regardless how much sleep I am getting and cannot lose weight at all even with good gluten free diet and excercise
Curious why you would want to be on something that was rightly recalled due to numerous problems–the latter as reported by many patients. Armour is what people are moving to and doing well on if they get their frees optimal. Same with T4/T3. But if adrenals are shot, we order the saliva test to know what to treat. Have you? Here’s one to consider: https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/ Then we use chapter 6 in the updated revision STTM book to understand how to treat. Good info to share with your doc. https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/
Any other options for saliva testing? ZRT now won’t ship to CA, they require an order from a doctor.
Hello! I was also on Naturethroid for the last year and noticed over summer I was feeling more tired. Saw the recall and my pharmacy automatically switched me to NP Thyroid 30mg pills and I take 105 mg / day. Feel ok but my energy still isn’t back. I’ve been on this for a month. Debating between asking for Armour or Tirosint/Cytomel. I’ve Beverly taken Armour but did take Levo/Cytomel combination for about a year and was feeling better so decided to go with NDT. I gained some weight after moving to Naturethroid but otherwise have been feeling better. What are your recommendations if I quit NP Thyroid? Tyrosint&Cytomel or Armour? Thank you!
Patients are consistently stating that either are working great if they get their frees optimal Check out this page because too many are saying they are optimal..and they aren’t. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
My husband and I were both taking NP Thyroid for over a year before it was recalled. He has just had a second ablation for AFIb. He was doing well with no heart meds after his first ablation, until he was on the super potent NP. I now have an enlarged thyroid, with nodules and will be having an ultrasound soon. We were both very ill for a year. We have switched to Armour and are feeling better, but unfortunately, the damage is done.
Carmen, it broke my heart to read of what happened to you and your husband with the NP thyroid. I am so very sorry and just wanted to tell you so. I’m glad the armour is working for you…it is for me as well. Take good care of yourselves.
I haven’t written for a while, so I hope your husband is doing better at this time.
As I have written before, I have had problems ever since Dec 2019 with the changes to Naturethroid; so switched to NP Thyroid. Didn’t feel better, so tried Armour and also tried fixing my Iron and Cortisol levels. Although I got optimum Frees, my RT3 started going up; TSH was non -existent; and started getting bad heart palps in March; and now cardio diagnosed AFIB and wants me to be on blood thinners and beta blockers. I feel it is all too coincidental to NDT changes so I went on with experimentation. I am back on NP Thyroid because after calling the manufacturer, they said the 60 mg pills are fine now. Do you know if that is true?
altho my past was stable on 2 Naturethroids, I was now on 2 1/2 NP and my Frees were optimum, but RT3 middle high and TSH super low. Both my doctor who is usually good and my nutritionist felt I was on too much NDT which was causing my heart palps. So to prove something to myself and to them, I weaned off my NDT. Stayed off for 5 days and heart palps and flutters were bad and maybe worse. Temps and pulse were low. I took blood tests to prove:
Free T4 .6 (.8-1.8)
Free T3 1.8 (2.3-4.2)
RT3 9 (8-25)
TSH 1.94 (.4-4.5)
I went back on NP Thyroid 1 1/2 now for 3 days and starting to feel better. My heart palps were very bad on Armour, so I’m afraid to go back to that. Have you heard anything more on NP? And it does smell like cat pee. In fact, I left half in a pill cutter and my cat started licking the cutter, ha ha.
So are each raises one week apart ? And how often to test? Do you only stop raising if optimal test results, not symptoms? But I am still left with determining what is giving me irregular heart rhythms and AFIB and low pulses unless having heart palps. My gut feel says, fix the thyroid issue and all should go away. My doctor says they are two different things and AFIB should be protected by blood thinners and possible pacemaker. Any thoughts?
Thanks for any insights.
Hi Debbie. So far, I have heard nothing that the 60 mg of NP is fine. I can only speak for ME, but I would personally avoid NP like the plague right now until there is better patient proof that it’s “fine”. But that’s me. I don’t want to be a guinea pig for what went so badly south with the interior of the pill smelling like cat pee.
What is working right now is Armour. Yes, it’s been bad twice in the past based on a wide variety of patient reported experiences, but a lot of current patient experiences have revealed its working again, even if it’s too expensive, hard, and lost the softness and sweet taste.
The only reason I went back to NP, is that manufacturer said fine and Armour didn’t seem fine. But I just went to my second opinion cardiologist and they want to do a cryroablation to stop my AFIB. So I have to try something solid and fast! I don’t want a stroke, or to go on blood thinners. My doctor says AFIB is different than a thyroid problem with high and ow heart rate and I should take care of my AFIB.
I have my prescription of Armour here and I can go back to it, but would I be safer going to compounded? Doesn’t Armour have more filers than the NP? And I am only back on 1 1/2 grains. I took cortisol test, but it will take a week or so for results. My numbers were optimum on 2 or 2 1/2, but doctors weren’t happy with the ultra low TSH. If I were gradually raising my dose of Armour, how much and how often? I hate to make a permanent Cardio fix for a temporary hormone problem. It just takes so long to do all this experimentation, while in the meantime I can have a stroke??
I could go compounded, but what would I have to ask about the source of there Thyroid?
Bottom line, patient reports underscore that Armour is a far better NDT than NP has been since changes were noticed in the summer of 2019. But we always let you decide and just report information.
Compounded may also be fine, but some patients are asking to smell the powder before they take it.
Have you done a 24-hour saliva cortisol test to see if that is causing your AFib?
Debbie my compounding pharmacy (Women’s International in Wisconsin) told me they couldn’t get the porcine powder they use for my prescription. This was in late October 2020. I had only been on their formulation for a month. After NatureThroid was recalled I went on NP but only took one dose because it was so disgusting. Hence the use of the compounded NDT. My only option at that point (just a few weeks ago) was Armour, or synthetic. I’m on Armour, 75 mg (1.25 grains I guess). Do I feel good? No, but I’m not optimized. So what was my point…. oh yes! I don’t know that compounded is going to be your lifeline at this point if the porcine powder supply is iffy (I don’t know the facts in this case). I wish you all the best and hope you can get it sorted.
Debbie: I had palp issues and likely some paroxysmal A-fib after the 2019 NP also So did others and after next to no response from Acella about it (I was the generator of the petitions to both RLC and Acella), I complained to the FDA.. I truly believe that there was something wrong with it beyond a 15% over potency. It does seem to have resolved, but it took a while. There is a paper out there by one of the medical journals that suggests that if the problem is due to thyrotoxicity, that it’ll take 12-16 at normal TSH levels. It took me a little longer than that. I also made sure I was getting enough potassium AND magnesium (Dr. Sinatra’s broad spec magnesium is good).
Debbie, a recent study looked at various thyroid hormone levels in relation to atrial fibrillation. Hyperthyroidism is associated with AFIB, but people with high normal to slightly high levels of T3 had the lowest risk of AFIB. People with low T3 levels were at the highest risk. People with high normal T4 levels were also at higher risk. I can say from my experience that the only time I’ve had AFIB has been when I’ve been under treated or on T4 monotherapy (which left me with high normal T4 and low T3). Atrial fibrillation is absolutely associated with thyroid levels, and your doctors should help you to get your thyroid levels optimal before putting you on risky blood thinners and taking the drastic step of a pacemaker. The heart muscle depends on adequate T3 levels to function. Here’s the citation for the article I mentioned: Anderson, J. L., et al, “Free thyroxine within the normal reference range predicts risk of atrial fibrillation.” Journal of Cardiovascular Electrophysiology. 31 (1), 18 – 29, 2020. There are some things I wish they’d done differently, but at least they looked at T3.
Than you so much. I believed in my heart (no pun intended) that this was all too coincidental to the changing of the thyroid meds, but still can’t get stable. I will keep plugging away, but my husband is scared of a stroke in the meantime.
I guess I’ll try some natural blood thinners. I just took my cortisol saliva test, so have to wait a week or so for answers. It’s been about 5 days since I totally weaned off of NP thyroid just to prove to doctor that my palpitations had nothing to do with too much NDT. So now I started back on 1 1/2 tablets of NP, but today switched back to Armour. I’ll wait to see about the adrenals, I guess, but I could take adaptogens if I dare in the meantime. I seem to get heart palps and very low temps around eating, sometimes b4, sometimes after.
Anybody have success with thinning blood naturally in the meantime, too. I realized that I am taking K2 for bones, which could possibly help blood clotting, which I should probably stop. Should I limit high K vitamin veggies?
Any insights are welcome. Thanks
I am working on nutritional solutions for all of that. My A-FIB acts up when I take creatine (badly), eat caffeine/chocolate (I don’t drink coffee), eat much red meat/fat, eat too much or postpone bladder emptying due to pressure on the vagus nerve, or high inflammation due to sugar or stress. My doctor prescribed a ‘chemical ablation’ because I didn’t want to have the procedure/surgery – flecainide/diltiazem combination, which worked for 6 months, but by the third month I could hardly move. It seemed to freeze my muscles, almost. So when he wouldn’t look me in the eye while telling me to keep taking it, I followed my ‘gut’ (I try to listen to God and had what was a clear message to me to stop seeing doctors) and quit taking it. No episodes for over a year and a half. However, my son suggested creatine for a different issue, and after one day I had 10 episodes in 12 hours. I need to do more research, but I am sure hoping there are food solutions – gluten/whole foods/lower meat/low processed carbs. My sister who has severe decades long autoimmune problems had much improved symptoms by taking oral iodine for a few months. That has to be done carefully, I know, but our food industry gives us so many deficiencies…Good luck. Prayers go with you.
OH! Started this for the natural thinners. I am pretty sure from your knowledge level that you have tried garlic, vitamin E, cinnamon, mustard/curcumin, ginger, cayenne pepper – long list on the internet. They seem to work for me (sometimes eating a tablespoon of mustard – I have added garlic, black pepper, and a little cayenne to mine – can lower my inflammation and stop the flutter that predicts pending A-FIB.) If you are not sure if the Vit K is increasing blood clotting, maybe try cutting it in half first? Increasing D-3, sunshine, and whole fat dairy might help for a replacement for a lower dose? More prayers! (My husband did have the ablation and recovered wonderfully.)
Just had a regular appointment with my doc, after thyroid test last week. Had been on Naturethroid, last refill was NOT on the recall list, however this time my doc checked the RLC website and all doses of Naturethroid are labelled “temporarily unavailable” . So, after discussion, he prescribed Armour, in a slightly lower daily dose. I hate having to keep switching meds, and then having to optimize again but it may be a while before Naturethroid is available again. I did much better on NT than Synthroid and after the buyout of Allergan I am skeptical but may be stuck with this at least for a while. I will post again after I get optimized on this brand. Not sure if NT will ever be available again. If you are on NT now, start making alternative plans for the next refill, may not be available at all.
As for compounding I have finally found the answer to two compounding pharmacies here in my home state of Maryland. And the best part they use a filler that is pretty natural and even has some positive benefits / effects. It is called Loxoral. The two pharmacies are:
1. Professional Arts Pharmacy ~ 443 – 200 – 1200; 3138 Rogers Avenue- Ellicott City, MD. 21043
2. Quality of Life Pharmacy and Health, Inc. ~ 301 – 324 – 3715; 8900 Edgeworth Drive, Unit G, Capitol Heights, MD 20743. Ask for Terri.
Google all and get even more info. I am trying to get a hold of PCCA which has the porcine as I want to find out where they get it from. I feel great and finally found the answer!. You can use my first name- Joanne – to them. Janie said I could send this info out as they are truly legitimate and I have used the second one but she has to mail and found the other closer by. Don’t have to pay for s&h ( shipping and handling.) Good luck to all!!
Any thoughts on compounded thyroid med
I am so frustrated with all of this. I started on Armour over 16 years ago… then Erfa, WP, and Naturethroid. Oh and I took Synthroid 20 years ago. My NP asked if I wanted to try Armour again as I have been on Tirosint with T3 for the last year. We are still trying to get the dosage right but I am hesitant to go back to Armour.
Beth, many of us have been on this same journey with you and all the different name brands over the many years/decades. I changed from NP (the latest for me) to Armour 6 weeks ago. I will test next week, but I must say that I feel “normal” again and hope my test results will show that for the doc who finally Rx’d it for me. I pay out of pocket, but it is cheaper than the out of pocket for brand name Synthroid which was a nightmare for me.
Hi Janie, I wanted to ask you are you also a moderator and part of your Facebook group online? Is there an email address you have if we want to reach you?
I own the Stop the Thyroid Madness Facebook page and have admins who help.
Hello Janie. Thank you for marvelous work. I will be ordering the book and following from here on in. Today, though, I’m simply trying to return the favor a little. For your dear husband, have you seen the work on red light therapy for kidney function? If not, start maybe with Hamblin, M., one of the authorities on it. I dimly recall reading that red light therapy amazingly assisted kidney function even in very serious cases.
Ironic, as a friend mentioned red light therapy to me tonite!
I have also switched back to Armour and must say that I am doing fine with it. Had to adjust the dosage a bit, and now am approx in the optimal range, and have no symptoms at all. So it seems of all the desiccated thyroids only Armour works now, I was on Nature for years, then switched to Acella, and now back to Armour. Unfortunately it got very expensive 🙁
When you say you had to adjust the dosage a bit, what does that mean? Did you go down with the Armour or up? I switched from Naturethroid to Armour and I feel I may be overdosed now.
I switched to armour about 6-8 mths ago from Naturethroid and I think I am feeling over medicated. I’m getting hot sweats, palpitations and a jittery feeling in my body. My hair is in a weird condition and I’m losing quite a bit. I thought it was the menopause but I’m now thinking it’s the armour. I’m going to reduce my dose and see if it helps. I need a blood test really but don’t want to go near a hospital with coronavirus around so much – I’m in the uk
You probably need to read this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info Because Armour works well, and the latter is what it can reveal.
HI! Can anyone please help me, I’m at my wit’s end. My whole family is hypothyroid and I’ve been on Armour since I was 11. Never had any side effects and always felt OK. My levels are good and free T3 is in upper part of range. But about 2 years ago I started to get horrible heartburn 24/7, and constant swollen redness in the back of my throat. I couldn’t figure out what it was and after a ton of experimenting I realized it was from the Armour! I don’t know what happened, if they recently added some kind of filler I can’t tolerate, or what’s going on. If I don’t take it, my digestion is great and I have no heartburn but I have to be on something so I don’t know what to do. Does anyone else have this problem or have any advice? My Dr. mentioned they could compound it into something with less fillers but I don’t know how that works. I have tried taking it at different times, sublingually etc. but it doesn’t matter it always gives me heartburn. Until I can try the compounding thing my Dr just prescribed synthetic T4 and Cytomel but I’m just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? I am so confused as to why all of a sudden this started happening when for 10 years prior it was fine.
Can you post the following first and with ranges, just in case: anti-TPO, anti-Thyroglobulin, free T3, free T4 and especially RT3.
anti-TPO is 2 (reference range <9), anti-thyroglobulin <1 (range <1), free T3 3.3 (range 2.3 to 4.2), free T4 1.2 (range .8-1.8), unfortunately didn't get reverse T3 tested this time so don't have that info. I'm just not sure what to do because on both higher and lower doses I have such awful debilitating painful heartburn 24/7. I suppose I've developed some kind of allergy to whatever they changed with the formula but it makes me so disappointed! I tried looking this up and saw only one other person saying they have awful heartburn on Armour. Even when I stopped taking it entirely at one point and my levels were lower I had no heartburn so it's definitely from the med and not just low thyroid, which I know in and of itself can cause heartburn.
I am currently taking a combination of synthetic T4 and T3 and don't have heartburn but the only unfortunate thing is I'm now losing some hair. Question, and sorry if this is elsewhere on the blog I couldn't find it, if taking synthetic should I be taking the same ratio of T3 to T4 (1:4) as there is in NDT? Because the combo I'm on now is more like 1:10. Thanks. Bummed I suddenly can't take NDT when it worked so well for me my whole life!
Hi. Losing hair can happen due to being underdosed, and/or low iron. Yes, we tend to take the same ratio of T4/T3 as was on NDT. And it’s been working well for people if they get optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I’ve been having heartburn and indigestion the past couple of months starting with NP Thyroid of which was on a recall list. It got so bad I stopped taking the medication for 2.5 weeks. My stomach very slowly improved. I then got a script for Armour. After 4 days on it, I started up with stomach issues again. I’m subclinical hypothyroid so I stopped the Armour 2 days ago and will ask to not be treated for it. Only symptom that brought me to the Dr. in the beginning was thinning hair. Going to ask if I can discontinue treatment and just be tested every 2 months or so. After my 2.5 weeks off NP (and taking nothing) I got bloodwork done. Curious to see what my levels will show. I’ll find out tomorrow. Not willing to live with the stomach issues especially since I never noticed any benefits from taking the medication.
Benefits only occur as you raise it and get the frees optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal NOTE: many do feel better when the free T3 is midrange, but it eventually backfires. Midrange is not enough for our daily, weekly, monthly needs.
How i know it is not working after 7 weeks of switching to Armour is that I am tired all the time, my hair is falling out, my joints hurt, my mind is fuzzy and it is very hard to focus. Dosage of Armour is the exact same as the Nature Throid I was on. I have not changed how I take it. I felt great on the NatureThroid before it was recalled. I don’t feel anything close to that now. I can’t get back in to my endo until next year. I had to literally beg to be switched to Armour and its not working.
That doesn’t mean it’s not working. When you take something that is stronger than Naturethroid was, it will suppress your own release even more, making you even more hypo. It’s called the feedback loop. That’s why we have to get optimal!! https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I was telling my doctor for six months that I felt my systems returning and she laughed at me and I am on armor thyroid I take three 15 mg pills
Lorraine, just an FYI: we hardly see anyone do well longterm on a dose of Armour that low. It eventually backfires with a return of hypo symptoms. Check out this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
45 mcg of Armour a day is “nothing”. What are your lab results….You may need a new doctor.
Hope your husband gets well soon.
I switched to Nature-Throid when Armour first became difficult to get. NT has worked well for me, though my adrenals suck. Unfortunately, I’m down to a ninety-day supply, and my pharmacy says they can’t order NT yet. I’ve considered Erfa, but it’s more expensive than Armour. So I’ll try for Armour or I’ll wait. Fortunately, I can survive on 1 grain rather than 2, though I’ll be tired all of the time. My doctor’s sympathetic, but doesn’t seem interested in my taking Cytomel. I had Meniere’s while on Synthroid, so that’s not an option. If I can find the time, I’ll do some more research.
Hope y’all are doing better by now.
I read both of those pages and wrote notes to prepare for my conversation with my doctor. Very helpful! If I supplement with iron will that help? Basically, if I can increase my iron. Then will I be able to control my RT3 and keep it from climbing? I’m not sure I’m understanding it right.
I take my cat pee pill every morning. I’m grateful for it. It’s the first time I’ve found a doctor who will prescribe anything that’s not synthroid. For the first time in a decade my joints don’t hurt. Still need afternoon nap though. I go back and get retested soon. Will ask about the recall. Baby steps I guess ðŸ™„
I have not felt well for at least 8 months. I’m exhausted, fall asleep in the chair constantly. Gained 18 pounds with no changes in my diet. So depressed, unable to think, fell like I’m forgetting simple words. Hurting everywhere, pain beyond pain. Got a letter in the mail September 2020 Nature Throid recall. Get my labs done TSH 10, she didn’t run my T3 or T4. Given a new script NP Thyroid 90 mg, one week taking it, my heart is pounding, palpation, anxiety and feeling so lost. Is there any suggestions of what do do?
Hi. Sorry you are going through that. As the article explains (do read it all), and as patient reports still underscore, using Armour or T4/T3 and getting optimal (https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal) seem to be our best options right now. We also need a doctor to go by the free T3 and free T4, not the TSH. Here’s information to read,too,in working with your doctor or a better one: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh-why-its-useless
Thanks for your reply, Janie. I’ve finally had a chance to read the Optimal page and I’ll discuss it with my doctor. We’ve been considering switching me to Levothyroxine and a synthetic T3, but maybe I should get the other tests run you mentioned before I switch meds. Every time I switch meds it throws my body for a loop and I lose more hair (my body’s go-to response for everything!), so I’ll stick with Armour for the moment. I notice, though, that Michele takes her Armour sublingually. I never have (bad taste), but I have, in the past, broken the tablet in half and taken 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night. Do people have better results by splitting the dose? Per the pharmacy, I’m to take the whole tablet in the morning on an empty stomach, so that’s what I’ve been doing.
We’ll all hope that your doctor understands that what’s on the optimal page is based on now 18 years (as I’m writing this) of our combined experiences and observations in not only feeling better, but also maintaining that feel good. 🙂
Armour used to taste and do better for letting it dissolve under our tongue. But just the saliva enzyme affect on breaking it down may be key, too. Swallowing works too as long as we avoid it mixing with iron, calcium, excess fiber, etc.
Karyn, I had a chiropractor who was keen on chewing/breaking up tablets for the body to know what it was taking and then letting it dissolve in the mouth. I have always taken my NDT sublingually. When Armour originally changed their formula, I called the company and was told that they removed the glucose and added in some filler. I have spoken to many specialists who have said that some medicines need “sugar” in order to trigger them to work. So, I put my 120 Armour tablet on the bed table with a piece of xylitol candy (tiny piece) and put the Armour tablet in my mouth, bite down to break it in half and then wiggle it under my tongue and then put the hard xylitol candy on top of my tongue….they both take a long time to dissolve, so I do this when I wake up to go to the bathroom first thing and it seems to be working well for me. I’m about 5 weeks into the Armour and won’t test for another few weeks. I’ll let you all know. Also, sublingually allows you to eat foods that are no nos for hours if you swallow it due to having to be processed by the liver. Janie can you confirm that these things I’ve been doing for decades are true…. thanks.
I leaned about my thyroid condition about 6 months (10.23.2019) postpartum with my second child. My TSH was 56 but of course no other thyroid labs were run at that time. I didn’t realize I was having hypo symptoms the labs were run as a result of a lump in my breast (turned out to be nothing) I was prescribed Synthroid over the phone. I follow a very natural lifestyle in all things home, body, food, etc. and eat 100% organic with an emphasis on local high quality animal products. So, naturally I didn’t want to take any medication but soon realized that wasn’t best. I then asked for Naturethroid and had been taking 3/4 grain and saw a great improvement in my numbers (i had slowly been asking for more labs each time I became more informed!) I only found STTM after the Naturethroid recall. As Naturethroid was recalled my most recent numbers were (9.18.2020) RT3 11.3ng/dl, FT3 2.5pg/ml, FT4 0.95ng/dl, TSH 1.61, TbAB 17.3, AntiTpo 71, Fer 35.6, Iron 71, Selenium 250, Zinc 96 Based on what I have read on your site I am now in the “normal reference range” but not yet “optimal”. To throw a curve ball I recently found out I am pregnant (9 weeks). Then as I was about to try switching to Thyrovanz my Doctor went on maternity leave. So, I have been on Thyrovanz for 2-3 weeks and am feeling good. My new doctor is insisting on prescribing Armour and plans to test me in 6-8 weeks. She agreed to test right away instead of the 6-8 weeks…so we can actually see what the Thyrovanz is doing. I am wondering if you could point me in the direction of monitoring hypo numbers while pregnant (is there an optimal during pregnancy?) I want to make sure the baby is getting plenty and that I am still heading in the right direction with my numbers. And just any general information on Hashi’s and how to know the difference between postpartum hypo and Hashi’s. Also, your website is a godsend and I am so thankful for all of the work you do!!! I am looking forward to reading your books as well 🙂 Which one should I start with?
So far based on patient reports, it seems that what’s on the optimal page still applies when pregnant. Also, this information page explains where we see all the lab results you mention will fall when optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values. An iron of only 71 ends up pushing RT3 up if we raise a T4-containing thyroid medication or supplement like Thyrovanz. Here’s information you can read and to see if your doctor will get it: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
I spoke with a compunding pharmacist today and she said the the porcine sold to compounders is a different source than the ones used for commercial products like Naturethroid and Armour. Has anyone else heard that?
Also, is low iodine a contributing factor to thyroid problems? My last test showed 43.8 ug/l with a range of 40.0-92.0. I wanted to also retest adrenals but it appears ZRT labs no longer ships to California. I used them in February so it’s odd. Any recommendations for another lab?
Yes, it can be a different source, depending on where a particular compounder gets their source.. But some patients have noticed the cat pee smell from their particular compounded porcine. If that concerns you, might want to ask to smell their powder first. I personally would say no if it did smell like cat pee, but that’s me.
Thanks Janie! Mine does smell like cat pee.
I’ve been on WP Thyroid for a while. (227.5mg) and my thyroid levels have been optimal. As there has been a recall (and other natural desiccated thyroid brands available have lots of bad fillers) I need to find a replacement. If I switch to bovine thyroid how do I dose to compare to the Wp thyroid. (for example Nutri-Meds brand) thanks!
I’m in London, UK, I have STTM books and was part of the group 6 years ago. Thanks to a comment in that group, about a paper connecting Levo with higher rate of breast cancer, I got the courage to abandon Levo when I found a 4 cm cyst in a breast. In a matter of only 2 months it disappeared – against having been told that it was going to grow if I didn’t allow the specialist to puncture it. I first sourced NDT from Thailand but I was scared, I ended up using all my savings to pay for an expensive doctor that ordered Armour. Its price has gone up 5 times this years, so less than a year ago I went back to public health and Levo. Since yesterday I have burning pain in a breast again, and I’m scared. I don’t know where or how to source NDT again, could anyone help me? Thank you.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be NDT. If you can get T3 added to that T4, it will also work, and getting optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Some in UK report using this: Metavive Pro 60mg
I am also in the uk. I just want to comment on the link to breast cancer. I was diagnosed in 2014 with bc after being on a ndt for over 10yrs. It was a very aggressive form but aggressive treatment sorted it. In my case not linked to being on Levothyroxine. Havent heard of that link before.
I cotninue to do well on NP. I did have a problem with two 100 bottles of 60mg in their recall for super potency. I had to alternate my full dose with a slight reduction the other day. My pharmacist told me the super potency was minimal and THEY (pharmacies in uk) would not recall the tablets for such a small difference so they didnt. Luckily only had two 100bottles of the recall batch. Once I knew about the recall I decided to mix with ok batch & was fine. I take four 60mg tablets per day. So took one of the super potency mixed in with non recalled batch tablets. Worked well. Ive been ok on batches of NP since. I am very much affected by fillers and dont do well on ndt that contains mycrocrystaline (spelling!) that is in Armour. In the past I have tried synthetic including levothyroxine and liothyronine but didnt fare well on them, no matter the dose. I had to split the liothyronine into three doses per days to try to level the spikes that I experience. I only felt on an even keel when I moved to a ndt. So not keen to go back & the NHS will fight this in any case as they are charged ridiculous prices for liothyronine so have more or less banned it.
So for me I have to find a way to make ndt work.
Please read “The Iodine Crisis” by Lynne Farrow. She explains the need for iodine and how to use it for breast health.. If you need more information David Brownstein, MD, has excellent books on iodine and thyroid as well. You will find help with this information.
Ugh. I switched over from compounded T3/T4 to Armour after having to stop taking WP…and my thyroid is TANKING. I cant stay awake at all. I feel TERRIBLE. Is Armour still working?? Doesnt feel that way to me!
Yes, it’s still working. Sounds like you are underdosed. Read this information on where our free T4 and free T3 need to be to not be underdosed: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Hi Janie! I’m taking a higher dose then I was on any thyroid med I’ve ever taken In the last 16 years.. 3 grains and I’m still struggling. Feels like I’m barely taking anything. Not sure what to do. The last time I had this much trouble was during the NP debacle. I need to wait another week to test but going higher could skew me hyper.
In response to Michelle: are you splitting the pill in half/dividing the dose, & chewing up the Armour before swallowing with water? Tried adding in a small amount of t3/liothyronine with it, like 5-15mcgs? The reason I ask is that’s what it took for it to finally work for me! I have a pill cutter from cvs & I cut it right down the middle, where the line is. Now I’m feeling it. I’m on the same dose as you (3 grains, 180mgs.) Worth a try!
Hi Amylynn! I have been chewing them but not cutting in half. I just got my labs back and my T3 is way above the normal ranges and T4 is mid range. No idea what that means! But overall, Armour has not been my favorite. Still feel hypo.
Do you know anything about Tru Thyroid? I found an online source in .5g sizes. I am trying to find an alternative to Thyroid-s that is not available until maybe next year.
There are other posts about this. Do a search and see what they have said. 🙂
I have been on Armour Thyroid for 10 yrs. – had a brief stint with Synthroid which caused a ton of anxiety. I’ve had very few adjustments that had to be made taking 75 mg (60 & 15) daily. TSH have been in normal range. Wham bam over a month ago I started feeling so lethargic, unconnected. Had covid in Mar., in July started with serious hair shedding which is finally improving. Just had TSH done which came back at 14 – OMG off the charts high, T4 low at 4.8. Will see Doc on Tues. but meanwhile she had me up to 90mg. Anyone else seeing wild high range like this? Other high TSH symptoms I have are feeling freezing cold, gained 5 lbs., vision isn’t clear, feeling depressed at having no energy …..
When we don’t get optimal, which 75mg will never do, it always backfires. This is our goal to prevent that: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I wanted to recommend a certified compounding pharmacy that I could post here and allowed by Janie. She is located in Capitol Heights, MD ( Maryland ). It is called Quality of Life Pharmacy and Health, Inc. Her name is Terri and her contact information is 301-324-3715. For those of you that are sensitive to fillers she uses Loxoral as a filler which is necessary to mix the T3 and T4. She is kind, understanding, and easy to work with. She uses porcine from a reliable source. The address is 8900 Edgewood Drive, Capitol Heights, MD 20743. Her email address is email@example.com The meds come in a capsule form and she is able to convert your present subscription over to the compounding formula. Good luck.
Was on 2 grains fo NT and due to the recall my doc switched me to Armour and the equivalent to what I was taking. Since the switch I’ve been having heart pounding and it feels like it’s skipping beats which is terrifying. Is there something we can do to mitigate these side effects? Take iron or something idk? I’m at a loss and my doctor doesn’t seem to care.
Did you ever get this resolved? I am experiencing the same thing!
Time to read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol.
IM ON ARMOUR AND HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING SOMEONE IN SAN DIEGO GETTING ME TO BE OPTIMAL ON MY T3 AND T4. CAN ANYONE HELP ME?
The cost of Armour is disconcerting to say the least. It costs 3x as much as Naturthroid, and I doubt there is any objective reason besides greed. I did notice that a double strength costs the same , so if your prescriber and you are willing, buy double strength and cut your tablets in half.
You can sell on Ebay or I will purchase.
So I received my new RX of Naturethroid in August. Didn’t start taking it for two weeks later in September and immediately noticed how sick and fatigued I felt. Ok I thought I had COVID-19! Went and got tested and the test was negative.
So saw on Facebook that Naturethroid had been recalled, so then called my thyroid Dr. and she changed me back to compounded T-3andT-4 which I took before Naturethroid. Within a day I felt better. Hummmm so now I have a 90 day supply of Naturethroid that I cannot use. Well now what do I do?
You can sell on Ebay or I will purchase
I started on NP over a year ago with cytomel. In the last year I gained 20 lbs which is big for me. I have been feeling hypo as far as depression and fhe medication simply stopped working. Prior to NP I was taking armour but due to gluten issue I can’t take that. I took naturethroid briefly after the stop and it just made me sick, something changed. Previously i had been on all of the different meds, but now I feel like none work.
Armour has been working (though I know you have concerns about the gluten). But also working is T4 with T3 and getting optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
I have been gluten free for 11 years and also have been taking Amour, never had an issue. Guess it might mean that I am not intolerant of all the Gliadin enzymes.
It always depends on the source they use for certain fillers. And we never know what source they are using.
So my doctor took me off Armour bc he had patients making the same complaints about NP and WP thyroid recently and said that they’re looking into Armour for sub potency as well.
I was on 2 grains. My levels were good. .27 TSH ; .8 FT4 , 3.7 FT3 and RT3: 10. I was just out on 125MCG of Tirosint and 10 MCG of liothyronine. Am I being under dosed on T3?
Hi Chris. I’m very interested in your doctors thoughts on suboptimal armour. I switched and feel awful. I’m on 3 grains which is a very high dose for me and still feel like my thyroid is tanking.
Michelle, we as patients have learned that it’s crucial to do the free T3, free T4 and RT3! That’s the way to figure things out/
Hi Janie, I am aware….Thanks to your website I have been stable for a long time. 🙂 I have to give the Armour one more week before testing and can report back then.
I am curious as well. Most people here are saying that Armour is working but I disagree. I have been optimal for years. I know how I felt, and I do not feel like that on Armour. Same dosage, same way of taking it but I feel aweful.
Read this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Are you saying that Armour has gluten? I have celiac and didn’t even check this time. I took it years ago and it was gluten free.
Actually, no one can prove with any batch that there’s gluten in it. It will always depend on their current source of certain fillers. So there is a definite risk, but not definite proof.
Valisure is the first online pharmacy that actually tests prescription drugs for impurities and the efficacy. Like a mini-Consumer reports. They actually got the FDA to recently recall Metformin as well as a few other drugs. They now offer to test for gluten.
I just read this message…does Armour Thyoid contain gluten ingredients?? I didn’t think they did. This could be the reason I wasn’t tolerating them.
Rebecca, not tolerating a working NDT can also be because it’s revealing an iron or cortisol problem, or one was underdosed. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Omg I received a call from my old pharmacy in Ohio 9/5/2020(Costco) I moved to Fl end of June and had my script filled a few days before at Costco in FT Myers they never said a word! Finally found a Dr here and of course it takes for ever to get a appointment for bloodwork. I had started experiencing all the horrible hypo systems again back in May I thought it was stress from getting everything ready for our move. My muscle pains leg craps are unbearable. Heart pounding all they crazy stuff that goes with it. Gained 30 lbs with no dietary changes and trust me unpacking moving in 100 degrees heat and humidity. I should have lost weight like my husband and son did. Not to mention the hair thinning again. I hope and pray we all can get relief again. Most likely I’ll be out back on synthroid, at this point I’m trying anything she suggests.
Carmen, consider adding T3 to that Synthroid. Even a healthy thyroid gives us some direct T3.
I’ve been on NP for a year to a year and a half. I have felt terrible and now wonder how I’ve managed during that time. After the recall (I received a letter from my pharmacist) I called and asked my doctor if she’d switch me to Armour, which she has done as of October 1. Over this time of taking NP I’ve had terrible foot pain ( plantar fasciitis) plus feeling fatigued in mid-afternoon. I have asked my doc repeatedly to do bloodwork for T3 & RT3, which she refuses to do, saying that is only done on hyperthyroid people not hypothyroid. I know I need to look for another doctor but am very skeptical as I seem to get the same response from all the others, you just need TSH that’s all!!
I was taking Nature Throid, and thought I was doing okay, until it was recalled last month (9/2020). The letter from the Walgreens pharmacy said the dose was at sub potent levels. That’s when I realized that maybe the way I had been feeling for a few months was due to hypo symptoms (inflammation, pounding heart, tired). My primary care provider wrote a prescription for NP Thyroid, 1 grain (60 mg), after I did a little research and found that my pharmacy carried it. I didn’t know about the NP thyroid recall last year. Has NP Thyroid been reformulated? Regarding its flavor, I find that it tastes slightly sweet, and yet has a strange after-taste, almost like how cat pee would taste (although I’ve never tasted it). I still feel a bit hypo however. Do you have any recommendations for a good thyroid specialist in the Albuquerque, NM area, someone familiar with NDT?
I am convinced there IS something going on with Armour thyroid. I have been very stable on the same dose of this medication for a couple of years. Less than one week of taking my new monthly prescription, I started having significant hair loss and other hypo symptoms. The pharmacy says nothing has changed. I am just finishing this prescription and will have labs performed next week to see what is going on with my levels. I’ve never had a rapid change in symptoms like this.
I have had problems with Armour for over a year now. It’s not the same at all. I took it for over 10 years and I just gave up on it. I used to take 4-5 grains. Now 1 grain is too much.
Eric, what has happened to you may not be the fault of Armour. It sounds like you could have a cortisol problem, and/or low iron. Have you tested your RT3? Have you done a saliva cortisol test like this? https://saliva-cortisol.squarespace.com/
All my other labs are optimal. It’s definitely the Armour. If it works for others that is great but I won’t touch it again. After thousands of dollars spent on medical bills because of that stuff no thanks. I will be sending it for testing; it’s not even close to what American Labs was producing as a raw ingredient.
As I have stated if NDT still works for some of you then keep getting optimal.
Eric, can you post the lab results with ranges that are yours?
I switched from NP to Armour after recall. I feel my heart fluttering and losing weight. I have been on NDT for 15 years. I’m ready to give up on it.
Michelle, same here only i was on NP. Within 3-4 days of starting a new refill last Aug 2019 all symptoms came back. Upped my dose a bit & got the smelly pills. Had to switch to Synthroid & T3. It’s been hell the last year.
Because of the nature-throid recall, I have started Armour at the same dose as the NT. The Armour feels stronger and was wondering if I should be tested after a couple of weeks of being on the Armour. When I was on the NT, I started having heartburn in just the last month. I never really had it before and don’t know if that is a symptom of being under medicated? Thanks so much.
Any updates? I switched from Naturethroid to Armour and my heart has been pounding nearly every day for 3 weeks.
That can also be because of Naturethoid underdosing you, and causing either low iron or cortisol problem. Check this out: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron-and-cortisol
Sighs…what a bad year I picked to switch from Levo to NDT. Seven months of not being able to get stable on any of the doses. It seemed like the sample bottles I got from my Dr were more effective than what I got from the pharmacy. The 15s I got from the Dr were plain white no smell and the pharmacy was speckled with smell. I experienced being overmedicated and then filling a new script and ending up with myxedema face and severe painful carpal tunnel. I tried Nature Throid but it felt like there was barely any T3 in it. My Dr made it seem like I was the problem and told me to go to a specialist but I knew it wasn’t me because I’d take a 15mg and it would seem stronger than a 30mg or the 90s didn’t seem as strong as the 60s. I’m now on Unithroid and the generic Greenstone pharm T3. I was on a higher potency generic T4, which walmart dropped, for a long time and none of the brands are close except for Unithroid. I’m going to wait 6 weeks and see where my T4 and T3 falls. I”m not sure if I want to add T3 onto my usual T4 dose or drop the T4 and add a lot more T3.
I am sooo pissed about this , for months i felt like crap with ALL of those side effects with my heart pumping so hard that at some point i thought i was gonna have a heartattack ! My doctors thought i was crazy telling them i have hyper symptoms while being hypo while doubling my dose .. Sooo angry and upset ((((( could ve been just fine taking any other form of thyroid … Any good doctors in Miami who know what they are doing ?
I absolutely relate to your abnormal Heart symptoms and all of your frustration with having Hyper symptoms even though you’re Hypo. ðŸ™‰
I’m going through very similar crap.
My heart never beats regularly anymore since I had to switch to NP. It will flutter really fast and then totally stop for a couple of seconds, then do a couple flops, stop again (I mean there’s crickets, no heart action) and back to the flutter. And omg, that horrible pounding is scary af like it’s just going to explode or I’ll have a heart attack or complete failure. I have another new symptom as well- this excessive insane HOT sweating. I mean it’s pouring down my face, back of neck, between my tits, fuming out of my scalp, just everywhere. And I’m just so so HOT all the time since going on the NP.
I’ve been taking NT for over 5 years, it’s been fine, feeling pretty good, had energy while slowly working my way up to 3 grains per day. Then these sketch recalls happened, right after my very first scrip of 3gr. NT, not even getting one refill. So my Dr switched me to NP. That’s when all these unbearable symptoms began.
My labs (sans thyroid) have always been normal and for the most part, I’m very fit and healthy.
But most recent labs (Aug) came back with my Free T3 only 1.5 & Free T4
only 0.3 and TSH 5.830. Reverse T3 is 11 (good?)
But now I have low iron and low cortisol. After reading about that, I’m seeing a lot of people saying that if you’re low on those two things, NP and WP don’t work well for them.
So I’m at a loss right now. I decided to stop taking the NP two days ago. Never suddenly stopped a med like that but my heart is more important… and this sweating inferno- forget about it. Doing my hair and makeup? Not gonna happen. Help?
Having low iron and/or a cortisol problem is common when on a medication that’s problematic, unfortunately (or even if we are underdosed on a medication that’s fine). So we treat the low iron https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron and the cortisol problem (chapter 6 in the updated revision Stop the Thyroid Madness book aka https://laughinggrapepublishing.com/product/sttm/)
I had terrible problems with irregular heartbeat arrythmia. Like you, sometimes it would simply stop beating. I had read in Healing Lyme, 2nd edition, by Buhner, that hawthorn flowers would fix it. Boy, did it ever! I had to keep taking it for several months, because if I stopped the symptoms would come back, but now it is totally gone.
However, only Solaray brand has the hawthorne flowers, as far as I have been able to find. The other brands are all berries, leaves, or whatever, and they DO NOT WORK. Only the hawthorn flowers work for arrythmia. The capsules also have tender new branch tips, which work with the flowers.
I learned that hawthorn without flowers does not work the hard way! I started taking the berries by mistake.
This is serious, because arrythmia can often be fatal. Sometimes the heart does not start beating again, or else it goes into extreme overdrive.
Not wanting to be dependent on a single brand, I will be planting hawthorn in my yard in the spring.
I have switched to a compounding pharmacy in my home state as I was on WP Thyroid which has been recalled and I also received a letter from WalMart advising me of the same. Is it permissible to advertise a compounding pharmacy in your state? I wanted to ask first before I did so as I know you preview all comments first. She is good and so far mine is working.
It’s fine as long as it comes from a genuine patient/cusomter like yourself.
Is Armour (NP .30mg ) done correctly at the compound Pharmacys ? And can I transfer my prescription from walgreens to compound to be made correctly ? Thank you for any response
Hi Elena. Not sure what you mean. Armour is a prescription NDT that still works. NP is a prescription NDT that’s been recalled and patients reported problems for over a year now. They are different. But of course you can ask to transfer your prescription.
I asked my doctor for armour thyroid and what i got was the one that was recalled , i dont know why that happened but walgreens told me its the same thing as armour thyroid ( angry face ) So obviously its not the same thing and now i need to figure out if that was my doctors mistake or walgreens just decided to switch my meds ..Did this happen to anyone else ?
Elena, this happened to me at Walmart and I was prepared for it. When I got the call it was ready to be picked up, I asked exactly what I was to come get. They said NP thyroid. I said the doctor specifically ordered brand name Armour… I was put on hold…she came back and said you are right, but we don’t have Armour so we’ll have to order it. They did. I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and so far all is going well. They try to substitute as they figure all natural thyroids are the same…they aren’t as we all know.
Thank you so much for your reply , Michele ! Now I know it was Walgreens that messed up ! Gonna have them fix it and start taking the good stuff )))) Armour worked really good for me before , thats why i was so confused feeling crappy taking NP … smh
I also was prescribed Armour and Walgreens gave me the generic. Did not do well on the generic, and had the dr make sure the prescription stated name brand, no generic. I always check now.
Honestly I had no idea that they can just switch it at Walgreens when its clearly written “Armour” by the doctor .
I was on Nature Throid for over 10 years and felt great. Endo supplemented with just a small bit of levo to get T4 where she liked it. Renewed my prescription for naturethroid in July and was hypo again by mid August. I didnt know what was going on. Found out about the recall at the beginning of Sept and begged my doctor to change me to Armour. Same dose, same everything and it’s not working. Been on it a month and feel absolutely like I’m not on anything at all. I am tired all the time, even can barely get out of bed after sleeping 9 hours, hair dry and falling out, cant focus, my mind is fuzzy. For those that say Armour hasn’t been touched by the recall just wait. I’ll bet they are next. Armour does not work at all for me. My only choice now is the synthetics which my endo has wanted for me all along. Once I change I know she will never let me switch back.
Katherine, Armour has been working. What happened that made you feel it’s not worked for you? How much did you get up to?
How i know it is not working after 7 weeks of switching to Armour is that I am tired all the time, my hair is falling out, my joints hurt, my mind is fuzzy and it is very hard to focus. Dosage of Armour is the exact same as the Nature Throid I was on. I have not changed how I take it. I felt great for a couple of years on the NatureThroid before it was recalled. I feel nothing even close to that now.. I can’t get back in to my endo until next year. I had to literally beg to be switched to Armour and its not working.
NEVER give your doctor that much power over you – it is your body, not theirs.
You can always insist that she prescribe the natural version when it becomes available again, or switches you to another natural product if your current one does not work. If she puts up a lot of argument, especially if she refuses to justify her choice, it is time to find a new doctor as soon as possible.
I have heard that you should not take your thyroid meds the day b4 you do your bloodwork. Is this correct. So, test on a Friday am, I took no meds on Thursday. Does it change the results of your tests?
Totally incorrect. We take our meds as usual one day, then do labs the next morning, followed by starting our meds for that day.
I was one of those who took NP thyroid recalled pills. I was on NP thyroid 2 grains then switched to 3 grains, (taking 2 tablets of 1.5 grain). I was doing good for months until the last couple of months slowly I started to feel some of the symptoms on top of gaining weight. I asked my doctor to please increase the dose a little bit. What did she do? she said that it’s way too high and I need to switch to 125mcg Syntroid + 5mcg of Liothyronine. Does this make any sense? I’m taking now almost of what I was taking! Shouldn’t I be taking at least 25mcg of T3? Now I feel horrible, I almost passed out today of exhaustion and can’t stand the migraines and brain fog!
I feel best when my TSH is close to zero! now how am I going to find a doctor who doesn’t prescribe focusing only on TSH but can prescribe the full thyroid panel including RT3? I have asked for this to dozens of doctors and they refuse, they say it’s useless and says anything, that only TSH it’s what matters.
She said that I’ve been taking too long higher dose and that it’s “shutting down my thyroid” and I need to take iodine on top of this new dose. I ordered I-Thyroid and see how I feel but still need to take higher dose of T3. I still have left NP thyroid and also Levothyroxine, Liothyronine in different doses. I would have to self-medicate until I find a doctor who can prescribe all the labs and meds I need. Should I continue with NP Thyroid or switch to Synthroid + Liothyronine?
I’m so angry and frustrated with this doctor and not able to find a good one who doesn’t focus only on TSH!! ugh! ðŸ™ Anyone can recommend a doctor in South Florida? Any advice is appreciated!
If we compare to the amounts of T4 and T3 per grain of NDT, we can get a better idea of what we need with the two synthetics. One grain equals 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3. Two grains equal 76mcg T4 and 18mcg T3. And so on.
And this is our goal with labs, which can take more than the latter amounts for ‘most’, we’ve observed.: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
Been in the same boat with my mom for years and still cannot find a doctor that will listen and do testing and prescribe as I have followed this site and have learned so much after her thyroid was removed in 2013 my mom has been miserable and so sick if you find and info i would appreciate it. Goos luck also.
I was on Nature-Throid 65mg M/W/Th and 81.25 T/TH/S/S. Everything was great for years. TSH was best between .7-.9 T3/T4 always mid range. With the recall my TSH fell to 2.56 before I knew what was going on. I’m on day 3 of switching to a compound T3/T4. I’m having a lot of anxiety. Not sure how much is really from the medicine and just me being afraid of the change on top of the massive anxiety i was already having the past six months from covid among other things. How likely is it I’d have more anxiety with a compound that is the exact same dosage i was taking on Nature-Throid? Help!
For what it’s worth, there’s a strong possibility you may have been underdosed all that time and didn’t know it. Thus, there’s a possibility you have an adrenal problem that is being revealed by the stronger compounded. Here’s information about adrenal issues: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info
Well I’ve definitely been underdosed for at least six months with the sub-optimal levels in Nature-Throid as my levels fell from .7-.9 in March to 1.1 in July, then 2.56 in Sept. I was thinking the same that this is a reaction to getting back on track. The question is how low do i go with the amount and for how long will it take to get back up to speed. Will talk to my Dr about adrenal/cortisol but my life has changed dramatically in favor of those doing better with the COVID as I stopped all work travel and have only been working from home. Both my husband and I did that and we both lost 20lbs due to significant increase in sleep, exercise and not pumping the cortisol all day long sprinting through life. I think the change in medication is triggering anxiety, just the thought of it, while also having a bit of anxiety from the medication itself. Today i tried only one pill (equiv of 32.5) and i’ve had less anxiousness this morning). So maybe i just need to be on a lower dose for a while to adjust to getting back what I lost from Nature-Throid the past 6-8 months. So angry to have to deal with this during the COVID situation – straw that broke the camels back!
And final point I’ll add with the 20lb weight loss since March, I’m down to 107lbs so I’m guessing that is also contributing to it being too much, in addition to why it took longer to notice the sub-optimal dosage. The dosage i had been on that was working for the past four years I was around 125lbs. There are just way too many variables at play here. I just need to start fresh!
I have been taking Thyroid S for years because my Dr wouldnt prescribe a NDT. I have been doing fine on it, but it’s production has stopped since covid 19. I have heard that there is a new NDT available called Tru Thyroid which is sold in 1/2 grain tablets. I’m wondering if anyone has tried?
Judy………I have NOT taken Tru but was interested and I have seen some reviews online so you could research the reviews.
Also, can I ask you about Thyroid-S? Did you get the 1,000 count bottles? It is my understanding a 1,000 count bottle would last about 8 months(or more)……..did you notice a decrease in potency 3 months (or more) after you first opened the bottle?
Did you chew Thyroid-S or swallow whole?
Did you refrigerate or freeze Thyroid-S……since the 1,000 count bottle gives an 8 month supply or more.
Just asking since they claim Thyroid-s will be back in spring of 2021……and I have never managed a 1,000 count bottle before……100 is the biggest bottle I have ever had.
I am so devastated by this recall and all the unknowns! I have no thyroid so it’s imperative I take medicine. I’ve tried all synthetic and non and found naturethroid is the only med that I have been stable on for the last 3 years. I’ve tried ordering from Canada just to continue and not have to go back to armour. Unfortunately Canada was recalled. I just want to know if naturethroid will bounce back or r we doomed.
With pharmaceutical secrets, that we don’t know.
Canada recalled? Is Erfa recalled, if not, is anyone doing okay on Erfa?
We have not heard that erfa has been recalled.
I have been struggling since March with my NDT. Had been on Naturethroid for ever with no problems. Then end of 2018 switched to NP Thyroid. that didn’t seem to do much so switched to Armour thyroid about March 2020. Have been having cardio issues with irregular heartbeat and it keeps getting worse, and all I can figure is that it might have something to do with the Armour Brand? I have adjusted my iron to optimal. On Armour, my T4 and T3 appears optimal. But my cortisol is slightly high at all 4 times per saliva test and DHEA is very low. I keep trying different combinations of adaptogens, which are supposed to help either calming or giving more energy? And I am taking DHEA 25mg, now down to 10 mg.
At this point, I just don’t know which way to go? I did talk to Acella this morning and they said they HAD recalls on a bunch of batches that were too much and some too little, but ALL is right now. So my choices are try the Acella, or try synthetic T3/T4? And I am going to stop the adaptogens for now.
Any thoughts or directions would be helpful. My doctor is wiling to help, but all she came up with is some Adrenal Calm by Pure Encaps.
Study this informational page: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ndt-doesnt-work-for-me
Thanks Janie. I did study the page. And it looks like the higher than normal cortisol could be the problem. So it means lower my NDT dose and fix my cortisol. I found information that Phosphatidyl Serine is very helpful in reducing cortisol and I had testing done about 6 months ago that said I was low on Serine and Selenium. I have been supplementing with Selenium, because I knew what that was. but I didn’t know the connection of the Serine to the cortisol. and also I need to increase my DHEA which will help lower cortisol. Not sure how quick I can get results, though. Would you recommend adaptogens too, or just try the above steps. These heart irregularities are quite scary and at times hurt my active lifestyle (hiking, biking, gardening all gives me head rushes and rapid pulses.
BTW, thank you so much for answering my questions during your time of stress with your husband. I hope he is doing better.
Hi. We discovered as patients that we only need to lower if the pooling is causing noticeable hyper-like symptoms, or if we are needing to start cortisol. If high cortisol is causing pooling, we end up just taking cortisol-lowering supps without lowering a working NDT or T3. Here’s information to read on the latter: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ps
Hey Janie, sorry to hear about your husband, what illness does he have?
Kidney failure and bladder problems due to Agent Orange.
sorry to hear that! I hope he recovers well
Is there an App or a website that exists that offers a text alert for recalled thyroid medication? The Alliance for National Health does an awesome job of alerting their audience of bills that are being considered to stop compounding pharmacies from existing. If you prefer natural compounding pharmacy drugs to be treated, I recommend that you check out the anh-usa.com website to be kept informed of unreasonable bills being passed to make it a hardship for compounding pharmacies to keep their doors open. This website gives you a chance to easily contact your state representatives to oppose these unfair bills. Currently unreasonable bills have already been passed which make it very difficult for compounding pharmacies to stay in business. Some of the bills sadly have nothing to do with safety of their prescriptions, but they are solely in place just to make it difficult for the compounding pharmacies to survive.
NONE of the bills have anything to do with compounding pharmacy safety. They are all there to eliminate competition for the major drug manufacturers – no matter that compounded prescriptions are a minute fraction of the total.
Wow. What a surprise. These guys became scumbags.
I was doing great on WP so this is a surprise. They replaced it with Westhroid which I am afraid to take. Doesnt have the piggy smell and when I chewed it it tasted awful. Anyone have experience with Westhroid?? Until then I am on a compounded T3/T4 but its not covered by insurance and very expensive….
Since 2018, I’ve experienced decreased potency in Naturethroid and NP Thyroid, but the reports of problems with Armour surprise me. I’ve been taking different brands of NDTs since 2004, and I went back on Armour about a year ago after the problems with NP Thyroid started. The Armour I’ve been taking throughout this past year has been very consistent, and the batch I picked up 2 weeks ago is the same. I have found that I need to chew it before swallowing with water in order to increase absorption. I take 150 mg. per day: 75 mg. on rising and 75 mg. about 7 hours later. If I’ve had an unusually active day, I’ll take an extra 15 mg. before bed. It is certainly different from the pre-2015 versions, but it has been working well for me. Maybe I’ve just been lucky to get good batches?
Ana, what we have noticed is that the majority of complaints about armour are usually about someone who never got optimal, or it was revealing an iron or cortisol problem.
Janie – can people have the same problem with synthetic? I keep trying a synthetic t3/t4 and I can’t raise above an equivalent of 1/4 grain without my legs aching from the knees down and I have not had any conditions that would warrant that. I even tried tirosint and the same thing happens at the 1/4 grain equivalent. Any idea what would cause this? My doctor is stumped. Is there something else I can try?
I have aching legs and have for many years. I recently read about Horse Chestnut and gave it a try. I really has been a blessing. I know if I’ve forgotten my horse chestnut – the leg aches return. Just something you may want to research. Hope it helps.
I’ve been on Armour Thyroid for several years and for the THIRD time I believe I’ve received meds that did not contain the supposed dose of desiccated thyroid claimed by the company. Why do I say that? Because all of a sudden my hypothyroid symptoms came back with a vengeance: overwhelming fatigue, hair loss — a LOT of hair loss–puffy face, dry skin, weight gain, etc. This resurgence of low thyroid symptoms was soon substantiated by thyroid tests which showed my levels to be off the charts LOW. My low thyroid symptoms continued for two months and then, just as suddenly, within three (3) days of refilling my (same) prescription the next month–i.e., getting the same dosage of Amour I’d been taking all along–I suddenly had all the symptoms of hyPERthyroid: heart palpitations, sweating, anxiety, etc. Now I’m not a doctor, but the only reason that I can figure out for why my body would suddenly go into hyperthyroidism after being off-the-charts too LOW, was that suddenly I was getting the dosage that I had NOT gotten for the previous two months. So had the Amour Thyroid manufacturer sent out a placebo or a sub-potent pill with lower levels of T4 and T3 than claimed? I was so convinced that they had in the summer of 2019 (and that they had done the same thing in 2018 when I’d also had the exact same sudden hypo symptoms followed by a whiplash to hyper symptoms within days of refilling my prescription), that I filed an online complaint with the FDA in the middle of 2019. An FDA employee contacted me by phone in response and I reported my experiences in detail during our 20-minute conversation. She advised me to see if others had had this same experience with Armour Thyroid and counseled me to file another report if they had (or if I had the same experience again). She literally told me that the FDA would be much more likely to investigate the manufacturer if multiple people reported the same issue. At the time, I was gearing up for the launch of a new business venture and didn’t have a chance to follow up either here or with the FDA, but now that I’ve been jerked around by this same whiplash experience for the third time, I’m filing another FDA report and I hope that anyone else who’s had similar issues with Armour will report their experiences as well. Add a comment here on Janie’s blog so others will know about/recognize/report this issue too, then file a report with the FDA. It takes just a few minutes to do online. I suspect that if other companies have had trouble getting desiccated thyroid supplies, Armour has too. Maybe Armour even gets its supplies from the same supplier as the companies whose products have been recalled. Or maybe Armour is having trouble getting natural thyroid supplies from Asia. The FDA lady said she knew there had been pig illness in Asia — and that was long BEFORE the COVID-19 outbreak there. Through it all Armour has said nothing, but my body doesn’t lie. I believe I’ve gotten either sub-potent meds or placebos in two of my last three months of refills and my last two thyroid tests (one of which I took just two days ago) concur: my T4 levels dropped so abnormally low, we tested 2x and got the same strange results each time. So if Armour is short-changing us with sub-potent meds or placebos, telling no one, and raking in our money like always, I think it’s time we spoke up.
Karyn, how much Armour have you been on?
Have you also tested your RT3?
I have been taking WP Thyroid since ERFA went south (so approximately 2015). I had noticed that the WP Thyroid didn’t seem as potent and my labs were less than optimal but within range when tested in May so my doc increased my dosage by half a grain. I had been taking 3 grains of WP and increased another 1/2 but that seemed too much so took the extra half 4 times a week. Was ok, but not great, then this recall. My doc wrote a script for 3 grains of Armour which I finally got filled this past week (Thursday, Sept. 24th). I started taking it the next morning, and I feel like I took an anti-thyroid. I feel as though someone sucked out all the energy from my body. I can barely move I am so tired. I know it is way too soon for a blood test to show anything but I don’t think I can make it another six weeks feeling this way. Is it possible that the Armour I got is sub-par such as what Karyn describes. I have tied taking the compounded T3/T4 but didn’t feel right on that either and it was very expensive. Not sure what my next step is. Think I was better off, though not optimal, on the recalled WP Thyroid. Anyone have any suggestions?
Sheila, it seems like the clue is that you mentioned you were “ok but not great” before you switched to Armour. So it makes one wonder if you had rising RT3, then switching to armour made it even higher. A lot of answers come from doing labs before assuming that a medication is messed up.
I’m on 3 grains of Armour now. I had been taking less (2 3/4 grains if memory serves) for awhile and went through a period where my TSH was off the charts high (around 25). This past Spring I went through a period of great fatigue and hair loss and my doc upped the dose to 3 grains because my tests were coming back too low. (We consistently test for T4, T3, and TSH. Not sure I know what RT3 is.) I’ve been on the three grains for about 6 months now. My TSH is back down into “normal” range now and my T3 is in the middle of the “normal” range for the first time (it always came back on the low side of normal), but my T4 suddenly dropped to the absolute bottom of the normal range and that was weird. So we re-tested and all the levels came back the exact same way–TSH and T3 in the mid-normal range and T4 at .08–the exact bottom of the range. I’m still experiencing hair loss and I don’t think it’s stress. I work from home, am used to being in the house most of the time (so Covid lockdowns haven’t been that hard on me), and have no other stressors in my life at present beyond the state of the country(!). So that’s why I’m suspecting the meds as being intermittently sub-potent (or at worst, placebos). The sudden recurrence of hypothyroid symptoms–and the equally sudden whiplash to hyperthyroid symptoms–have been too stark and too abrupt to be explained in any other way, in my opinion. But I’m “all ears” if you suspect a different cause!
Karyn, you’ve never been optimal. That’s why any of us would have those symptoms. The whiplash to hyper symptoms is usually excess adrenaline. Read this page thoroughly: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal A lot of people blame Armour and sadly, the FDA thinks something is wrong with the product when it’s not.
I just got an Armour Rx and filled it. 120 mg (2 grains). Karyn, what amount/size pills were you on and how much were you taking? I sure hope I don’t have your experience. I’m taking mine as I have for decades…sublingually (they are talc=y and dissolve easily) and with a bit of a sweetener to help it get into my system quickly. Their first reformulation removed the dextrose so I “add it back in”.
We have seen it very rare for only two grains to make someone optimal, thus they eventually have problems and blame the thyroid med, when it’s about not being optimal. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal
And when someone hangs onto a non-optimal dose, they eventually see a return of hypothyroidism, or they can see hyper-like symptoms due to having adrenal stress from being underdosed.
This is very confusing to me. I was on 1 grain of Naturethroid for 6 years without any issues. I have a friend who has been on 88 mcg of synthroid for 30 years with no challenges after having her thyroid crash. Why is it not possible that someone can utilize less than 2 grains for years?
Hi Lynn. You got to pay attention to how things are worded. For example, what we observe is based on “most” or “few” and related words to describe observations. Those words do not mean absolutes or 100 percent. So when it’s mentioned about two grains or less, you will see the wording “most” or “vast majority” to describe those who never get optimal on those lower doses. Or it can be stated that it’s very rare to see someone optimal on those low doses. There is even a page on stop the thyroid madness about the gray areas of patient experiences. You could be the minority.
On another side of the coin, there are those who say they are doing well, but eventually admit to symptoms that actually reveal they are not doing as well as they think. That happens a lot to those on T4-only who will say they are doing fine, then you later find out they do have symptoms of not doing fine.
I’ve experienced what you have since 2018. I stopped taking recently and have t4/t3 synthetic to get me by. If it works for others I’m glad, but I will no longer put my body through the up and downs
Eric, you state you made a change but how are you feeling??
I feel ok, but nothing like NDT. I have found that I can’t take too much synthetic hormones. Also keep in mind that NDT has a carrier protein that kinda slowly releases the hormones in our body. (Maybe they removed it). With synthetics, you are getting free hormones. So basically, I’m taking synthetics until one day we may get a working NDT. I keep my combo at or around 75-88 t4 and about 5-12.5 t3. Too much t4 bothers me.
I’ve had several pharmacist tell me NP is generic for Armour so they substituet it for Armour. Call & ask the pharmacist. The fillers are a little different & NP is cheaper. I think due to Covid a lot of pigs in feeding places have been killed the reason of a shortage in US.
I have also been told that Armour goes by the names of NP, Westhroid, Naturethroid….but they are not the same. Many of us had big issues with the NP (me too), so I was insistent on it being Armour this time. It looks and smells like the old Armour of the old days….tablet with no coating too. I’ll start it tomorrow and see how it feels when I take it sublingually.
Really? The prescription of 120 mg Armour that I picked up recently is very hard, no porcine smell and the tablets are so acidic tasting they actually burn my mouth and cause my stomach to burn and acid to come up my throat….not to mention the rapid return of hypothyroid symptoms.. I’m so disgusted and dismayed. I guess I should call Allergan????
Rebecca, sounds like the pharmacy is subbing NP Thyroid for the Armour.
Hi Janie, No the tablets are definitely Armour. They have the “A” on them…my Dr specified Brand Only. I had a some of the NP “recalled batch” so the pharmacy switched them pill for pill for a new batch and the are like the olden days…slightly sweet and dissolve quickly. I have only taken them for 5 days so I guess we will see!!
So, I spent 70 bucks on stuff that has now been recalled. I went to my local Kroger where I bought it, and the Pharmacy personnel knew nothing about the recall (despite my being alerted by a robocall from Kroger!) I had to google it for them.
They would not refund my money but suggested I contact the manufacturer. ????
How do I get a refund?
I would call the mfr and ask them to send another bottle to your pharmacy to substitute for the recalled batch OR speak to the head pharmacist with the info.. they should give you a new lot. Same thing happened to me with NP thyroid recall, and that’s what I did. I was successful and both Acella and the pharmacy were cooperative and apologetic. Insist!
Just a fyi: patients who thought they were successful actually weren’t, they state. It was still a problematic batch, and the rising cortisol and adrenaline hid that for a while.
Janie, I wish your husband quick recovery. And thank you for your post. Could anyone tell me if, considering the problems and high cost of porcine NDT, any good information or experience with bovine NDT?
Donna L Stearns
Sonia, I used Thyrogold for about a year. It was easy to order, easy to receive shipped. However, it drove up my reverse T3 to unacceptable levels. I then switched back to porcine NDT.
Thank you Sonia. And two sides of the story with OTC bovine. On one side are those who see their RT3 go up. And we do see research that implies that there are certain seasons when a cow is slaughtered that can mean higher levels of RT3 in the cow which may be passed down.
But there are other patients who state they like their OTC bovine. So just keep an eye out on your labs, and see if you can get optimal: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/optimal Some add T3 to their OTC thyroid. Other causes of high RT3 here: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3
P.S. This year, we’ve seen batches of Thyrogold that seemed to be ineffective. Not sure how it is today.
Does anyone know how ERFA is working lately? I saw the posts from 2014 but couldn’t see what came of that and if it was changed back or not.
I had tried Armour years ago, after it had changed and responded horribly to the fillers.
MY body has a very hard time with any change (goes into an extremely debilitating 6 month plus spin with any minimal dosage or medication change, NT isn’t working for me anymore and I don’t know what to do.
Also, is there a formula for the compounded natural thyroid? Had a pharmacist make one for me a few years back and it was horrible.
Based on patient reports here or there, it’s ok for some and not for others.
I used to use Armour, some years back but when it stopped working, after they changed the filler I was told, I switched to getting it from Canada, made by ERFA. It has worked fine since then but they had sourcing problems for the raw material, backorders, shortages of some strengths. And worst, the price just went up and up. I have reached the point that I need to find a reliable substitute that won’t break the bank. My insurer wouldn’t pay for it, since it was from another country. And I was always worried that Customs would stop it. I came here looking for a substitute, and it doesn’t look good. Back to the Armour again? It is really tiresome to have so much trouble with a drug when so many people need it. And never know when something will change and it won’t work anymore.
Just wanted to share that on March 25, 2020, I replaced my NT (390mg) with an equal amount of Bovine thyroid by Priority One.
In my case it was as if it did not contain ANY thyroid at all, or I just could not absorb any.
Within 6 weeks, I became extremely hypo, doctor ordered labs and before we could get the results, I could not longer stand unaided, had to be carried to the bathroom and later started leaving my body. My family found me unresponsive and called the doctor who brought me back with a high dose of synthetic T4.
I gained 10 lbs, lost almost all my hair and a tooth.
I have been back on NT for almost 5 months now but it isn’t working well and my hypo symptoms persist.
I would recommend that anyone trying the Priority One Bovine thyroid get VERY frequent lab work to make sure it is working for them.
Once NP stopped working in late 2019, I went to Armour. Has anyone that takes it noticed a gross, bitter tablet taste? I also have burning in my stomach and throat in the morning after taking it. PS Janie, thank you for all you have done for thyroid patients!! You deserve the Nobel Peace Prize!!!ðŸ†
Are you sure you have Armour. My doctor Rx’s brand name Armour and when I asked what I was to pick up when they called to tell me it was ready, they told me it was NP Thyroid. NOT Armour. Does the tablet have a big A on one side? Maybe you got the wrong stuff like they tried to do to me…this is not the first time they have done this at 2 different pharmacies. They think Armour is anything NDT.
Hello, yes I am sure. The tablets do have the A on them. There has to be something “WRONG” with this medication….however no one seems to have any answers….all they say is “we haven’t changed anything.” REALLY???
Michele – This has happened to me a few times with having NP Thyroid changed because it costs less then Armor, I asked them to change it to what the doctor sent in, as I’m paying for it out of pocket anyways. Why they fight me on it I’m not sure. The pharmacist told me not all of the NP thyroid was recalled, but the one he gave me was the same that I had that was recalled. FYI was Fred Meyer who is part of Kroger
I think it’s crazy that the pharmacy (at least Walmart) doesn’t track what lot number(s) your prescription comes from.
How is that legal?? You are told that yours *might* be from a bad lot but they don’t know for sure.
Isn’t the point of having lot numbers to protect the customer? That is lost of the pharmacy doesn’t track it. They only seem to track the lot number if they give you a full bottle from the manufacturer, not if they’ve had to use multiple bottles to fill your prescription.
Walmart replaced my NP from the first recall (super potent issues) after I pushed the issue. They wanted me to get another prescription from my dr and I said no, I don’t even see that dr anymore, this is to give me what I should have gotten the first time around.
I did notice that I was anxious and not sleeping very well on my NP so I do think it was super potent. It was so noticeable that I went through the lowering and retesting dance (at my expense) trying to get things right only to find out later (too late to really be helpful) that the pills were recalled. Super frustrating. The recall doesn’t begin to compensate for what we are put through.
I would call the mfr and ask them to send another bottle to your pharmacy to substitute for the recalled batch OR speak to the head pharmacist with the info.. they should give you a new lot. Same thing happened to me with NP thyroid recall, and that’s what I did. I was successful and both Acella and the pharmacy were cooperative and apologetic. Insist!
After the NP debacle when my health tanked, I did a short stint on compounded T3/T4 and then due to cost, switched back to WP. WP was working great for me (labs verified this) so this recall is a bit of a shock! My pharmacy replaced it with Westhroid. I cant find any info on this site on the efficacy of Westhroid. Anyone have any thoughts? I can go back on the compounded synthetic T3/T4 but that costs $150 a month as its not covered by my insurance.
Westhroid was around before WP hit the market strong, and WP somewhat replaced it for a lot of patients. Then we heard that Westhroid was continuing to be made more for veterinarian use. But who knows. And we don’t have enough feedback from patients to know if it’s been affected too.
I finally got my test results on 2 grains of really old expired in 2016 Armour taken with some Xylitol every morning. I was mid range for Ft4 and a little below mid-range for FT3. The new doc that I found said I could stay on what I was taking and I told him of the recalls and that I only wanted Armour. The pharmacy called……I asked what they had for me and they said NP Thyroid. I said that I was to have gotten the brand name Armour. They called me back…they substituted the NP because they don’t have any Armour (this is a huge WalMart). So, I’ll wait a couple days and see if they have it back. But some are now reporting that it’s also being problematic???
Very few are reporting it problematic, and if they do, it’s usually because they aren’t optimal and/or have an iron or cortisol problem.
Thank you Janie. I will keep my fingers crossed that they will be able to find some Armour for me. If not I guess it’s back to the new doc for T3 only….I can’t take the synthetic T4.
I just picked up 90 days worth of 120 mg of Armour Thyroid. They initially filled my “name brand Armour” with NP thyroid and I refused it and so the said they had to order Armour. It came in today and I picked it up. It says it’s from Forest Labs and is an off white/cream pill with the big A on it and it smells like the original Armour. Wish me luck!
I can’t comment on why pharmaceutical companies can’t/won’t share their porcine suppliers, but if I had to guess it likely has something to do with patents on their formula. I would think they should be more transparent given the amount of auditing that occurs typically with GCP or GMP during drug development. Seems like a lot of companies have dropped the ball more so in GMP with Phase 4 research (after market studies). Basically, it sounds like no one was batch sampling product as it came off the line. For more info on the main porcine supplier check out…..https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-alerts-drug-makers-recall-porcine-thyroid-api-sichuan-friendly-pharmaceutical-co-limited-china
This porcine supplier company has had so many FDA flags for not following GMP over the years. I honestly can’t believe companies continued to use them despite this. Please, if any of you are experiencing adverse events from these medications, submit a medwatch report to the FDA. https://www.fda.gov/safety/medwatch-fda-safety-information-and-adverse-event-reporting-program
When I was checking out the link posted earlier for Armour, I noticed that there is a Patient Assistance Program, which provides 90 days at a time for free. Since Allergan has just been taken over by AbbVie, I don’t know if they’re still accepting patients, but it doesn’t hurt to try. Links to the forms are here. They need to be submitted by a healthcare provider. it can be renewed every 90 days, according to the FAQ. Maybe this can help someone here! https://www.allergan.com/patient-assistance-programs/armour
Janie, thank you for your informative blog post. I have a list of the companies that are producing porcine and/or ships it to the U.S. FDA website
Quingdao Tida Biotek Co LTD: marketing date 8/1/20
A/S Orthan Kemisk Fabrik: marketing date 7/29/20
Sichaun Deebio Pharm Co. ltd marketing date: 9/20/20
Nordmark Arzneimittel Gmbh & Co. Kg marketing date: 8/16/19
Apotheca Company markeking date: 8/16/2014
Bioiberica Marekting date: 2/5/19
PCCA is also listed but they are a “middle” handler
American Labs inc is still listed but most likely stopped in 2017
Thank for this list, Eric.
Just a heads up, Allergan has been doing clinical trials on Armour since October of 2019. This corresponds to when I think it started to go down hill further. However for those who do well on it that is great.
It’s time we all look at the elephant in the room; what exactly was in the formula of the American source of porcine before they stopped in fall of 2017? Why was fda there in that same timeline? It clear that it was different. I doubt it was 100% porcine.
I’ve tried compounded as well several times; same weirdness.
I’ve spoken to the medical information contact at Allergan on several occasions. She stated she cannot confirm the pigs or porcine are sourced in United States. I’ve tried ALI, former source of porcine. Two people I spoke with there said they are not allowed to discuss “that” product. (Porcine)
I think there’s a lot of factors that go into making quality ingredients for these pills,
based on all the thyroid drug companies I’ve talked to over the years (because I’d
get messed-up by their products.) Is the factory clean? Are the machines working
right? One thyroid drug I was on called Euthroid was discontinued, because they
got busted for not having the humidity right when they made it–and probably other
violations. And they didn’t sell that much of it, so they just discontinued it rather
than make changes. On porcine, maybe it matters what the pigs were fed–and were
any antibiotics or chemicals put in their feed? Things like that. Also, the binders,
fillers, and colors in a pill can affect how you use and absorb the active ingredient–
so you need quality binders, fillers, and colors, too (if there is coloring used.) Most
of all, a thyroid drug company needs to CARE about putting out a good product.
Good luck with that, right?
Great info, Starr.
Thanks, Janie. Unfortunately, it took me a LOT of years to learn
all that—the very hard way! But it’s good to share it, so others
can understand. Thanks again so much, for all you do!
P.S. A “fun” fact–when Levoxyl changed formula in the early ’90s
and I got bad reactions from the changes, I called the company and
they sent me a little test tube-type container with a cap on it, to send
them samples of my batch so they could supposedly analyze it.
Inside this sealed test tube was a nice little insect. Possibly a beetle.
It really made me wonder what was going on at that factory,
as far as cleanliness! As if the changed formula wasn’t enough
to deal with!
What else could be in the porcine powder? What do you think about the theory that the porcine powder could be from pigs that were infected with African swine flu in China? Could the ammonia smell of the powder be due to contamination or cleaning of the powder? My doctor claims to know that all the NDT’s use the same source of powder but is unsure if Armour is using the same or not. To me it has a hint of the smell but not as bad as NP did when it first went bad. I understand NP thyroid no longer has the smell but is still bad. When I tried Armour it gave me reflux and chest tightness.
We did hear there was some kind of washing going on that may involve an ammonia smell. But again, that smell was never there when US companies were using the same source of porcine from American Labs in the US. That is what your doctor may be referring to, but that source stopped a few years ago and he doesn’t seem to realize that. As far as NP no longer having the smell…no, there are still people who report noticing it, in spite of the coating that was put on it after all the complaints.
Reflux and chest tightness have been reported by people who stayed on too low a dose, too long. Or they had a cortisol problem.
Thanks Janie! I understand the cortisol, iron challenge but switching to the same dose of t3/t4 stopped the reflux and breathing issues so I’m pretty confident Armour caused it.
It may be that armour is a little stronger than just T4 and T3. And that could mean even too small of a dose of armour could backfire and cause that.
I saw Janie’s blog post yesterday and went into panic mode. I cannot take Synthroid. I was doing fantastic on WP until that whole nightmare in 2017. I got switched to Naturethroid. I got sick on Naturethroid and then had to switch to NP. It took many months on NP fiddling with the dosage and making lifestyle changes, but I finally got myself situated again for the most part. I now take lots of Vitamin D, Selenium, Vitamin K2, Thorne Methyl-guard (for my MTHFR mutation), and turmeric. Thankfully, I was able to stock up on good NP right before the lockdown hit and I had enough to cover me for 6 months…Now I am almost out and need a refill, and now I’m not sure what is going to happen. Not to sound melodramatic or anything, but I’m actually feeling terrified. I just CANNOT go backwards again. I cannot get sick again. When I even think about it I feel like I am going to burst into tears. I started a new, very challenging, job in April that takes every ounce of energy and focus that I have. I have to drive an hour to work and an hour back home. If I get sick again I won’t be able to work. I don’t have sick time built up and my new insurance is awful. I can’t go for bloodwork every couple of months to monitor where my levels are as I transition. I can’t mentally/emotionally afford the transition time of changing medications because when I have changed meds in the past, it has taken me months to get sorted out. I can’t lose my hair again. I can’t gain all the weight back that I worked so hard to lose. I can’t have the horrendous inflammation and pain in my body and every other horrible symptom that I suffered. I seriously can’t even focus on what I need to do today because my thoughts are preoccupied with this recall. I have a call in to my doctor, I emailed her the recall information that Janie provided, and I have a call into the pharmacy to see if they have any in stock. This is a nightmare. My anxiety level is high.
Susan M Hall
This article illuminates some of the problems with contracting out manufacturing and sourcing active pharmaceutical ingredients (API) from outside the United States. Apparently Acella was contracting some of their manufacturing out to a contractor.
Janie, thank you. We are sending well wishes for your husband’s recovery and good health. Please take care of yourself.
I really appreciate that, Teresa. Just trying to slow down his decline. It’s hard.
Susan M Hall
Cutting & pasting this from a NewsWeek article dated 9/21/20. I’m hoping that the statement in the first paragraph is a typo: “In some tests of the tablets, the company found that the levels were 87 percent lower than labelled” No wonder patients are hypo!!!
I’ve switched to a Synthroid Cytomel combination. Current dose is 100 mcg of Synthroid & 25 mcg of Cytomel and I feel ok. Too soon for lab work. I’ll do labs in about 4 weeks. Generics on both as my pharmacy advised me that the brand name Cytomel is on backorder.
Acella’s response seems strange, too — even though the levels were 87% lower than labeled and people taking this medication are taking it because of hypothyroidism, they’re saying that the elderly could have symptoms of *hyper*thyroidism from taking the recalled medication? How is that even possible?
I believe the FDA notice says it contains 87% of active ingredient, not that the levels were 87% lower!!! FDA allows 90%, apparently. My understanding is that when your brain notices a drop in thyroid hormone in your body (this would be about 3-13 mg drop on a 1 grain dose depending on the potency one took beforehand, if my math is right) it tries to compensate by releasing more thyroid hormone. Hence the hyper. I hope Janie will comment on this “Hyper” part of the recall, because it is really scary. I’ve had a lot of hypo symptoms return, AND heart palps, insomnia, anxiety, etc.
Why are docs so scared to use T3? I don’t know, but I am currently taking 1grain of ndt and almost 50mcg T3 (no thyroid). The last two docs I saw are wanting to up the ndt and lower by half or more the T3. I am treating adrenals LLLH and was told to STOP; doc came back from a conference last week and says it will cause my adrenals to shut down. So I’m not sure what they are teaching, but I have been feeling better using the STTM patient experience prtocols and will continue to look for a brave doc that prescribes T3 until I can figure out why I’m not converting T4 to T3.
I’ve been told the same thing by one particular new doctor I was trying out. He stated that my use of HC (at that particular time only) would cause my adrenals to shut down. Nope, it was a safe physiologic amount, not a pharmacologic amount, and I was working with another doctor who knew this.
A follow-up question to my previous post: has anyone here switched from NDT to T3+T4, due to cost issues and poor availability/potency problems? I am seriously considering it. My only question is if NDT contains other hormones that are beneficial to us and that I would miss out on if I switched to a synthetic combo drug? My doctor suggested Novothyral (I believe it´s the equivalent of Thyrolar in the US)?
A body of patients are reporting doing well on T4/T3 and if they get their frees optimal. The optimal frees have proven key to not seeing the feel goods backfire.
I am seeing a new endocrinologist because I needed extensive re-evaluation for continued hypo symptoms, despite increasing my Nature-throid dose to 4 grains a couple of years ago. After seeing everything about the recalls, I’m sure the ineffective medication is the reason. My new doctor is starting me on Synthroid & Cytomel to give the ability to adjust the levels independently. I hope this works! She is concerned because my FT3 was 6.1, while my TSH was .03. And I still have hypo symptoms like body temp of 96.7-97.1, hair falling out, difficulty sleeping, weight gain, constipation, brittle hair, clumsiness when running trails… My cortisol level was 21. To make things more difficult, it appears I’m entering menopause based on the hot flashes, absent period, and FSH of 75. Hoping for the best!
See if that high free T3 is about this: https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/pooling
I have tried a synthetic t3/t4 combo and just tried tirosint with slow release t3 and it appears that both cause lower leg pain that wakes me up at about 3 am every night even at a low dose (13 mcg of tirosint or 19 mcg of t4). No doctors seem to be able to explain this so I have been unsuccessful at taking synthetic. I’m basically taking 1/4 grain of porcine powder pus 1/4 of synthetic t4/t3 and barely functioning.
I went through the sickness of being on the tainted/too potent NP and then switched back to Nature-Throid In May 2020. I have hardly left my room or house since then. I said all summer it was as if I was taking sugar pills. Went to the doctor in August to get labs checked and they refused to do them I was told to come back in 4 weeks. Well, that made me sicker. Finally got labs done on September 5th and sure enough despite taking the Nature-Throid all summer, I’m very hypothyroid. I am allergic to Synthroid and had a bad reaction to Armour after the 2009 reformulation but had no choice but to try it again. I’ve been on it a week and feel a different kind of yucky, kind of angry which I never am. I will admit I’m a mess over this whole ordeal with NDT meds. I’m having panic attacks about how no one seems to care about giving us good medicine anymore. RLC labs said they haven’t had any adverse reactions, bullshit just the mental hell we have to go through by buying our medicine and taking it for months to find out the crap didn’t work, that messes with you both physically and mentally. I read some place but don’t have the link and can’t remember where I read it that Armour bought up all the good US porcine thyroid powder. This info and the link I’m going to share might be enough to think that true. Now this could be a plot to destroy Armour or finally admitting that Armour does work and the company will make it pre 2009, God I pray. Here it is…..on May 8, 2020 the makers of Synthroid, abbvie bought Armour and or teamed up with the makers of Armour. Here is the link with the proof. When clicking on the link if the information box about the merge does not pop up, I have a screen shot saved on my phone. I am scared to the point that I’m having bad panic attacks and agoraphobia over this whole NDT mess. Being allergic to Synthroid so much that I had to have Epinephrine, NDT is all I’ve ever been able to take since 1997. Since the reformulation of Armour in 2009 I switched to Nature-Throid and did great until 2018. These last 2 years has been hell searching for good NDT medicine, I haven’t been optimal for almost 3 years now. All the money wasted on crap pills, we should all get a life time supply of good medicine. To be told you have a disease and you have to take a pill the rest of your life and the pills don’t work is making me not want to live in Hypothyroid hell anymore.
Hi, Sue. I’m so sorry you’ve gone through all this….your last sentence really got to me, as that’s
how I feel, too. When I became a thyroid patient back in 1975-76 (when I was eleven & twelve
years old, I was treated for a bad case of Grave’s Disease with radio-isotope drinks to destroy
a lot of my thyroid gland), they said–don’t worry, all you do is have to take daily medicine and
you can have a full life. My doctor had many patients on Synthroid for years back then, and
he said they were doing quite well. I also did well on it until they changed that formula and
some other things about it in 1982-83, and I haven’t found anything to help me as good, since.
I’ve certainly tried…doctors have given me a lot of different thyroid drugs, doses, and
combinations over the years. And it still goes on. I’ve also been caught up in the last
five years with WP thyroid not working right for me after a time, then they seemed to
be having problems with it at the factory (and quit making it for awhile), then onto NP
thyroid medicine….where it helped for awhile and then had problems. Now I’m on
synthetics again, and I go for labs pretty soon and we’ll see how they look–but I feel
awful and it hasn’t helped any that my main source of encouragement and support,
my brother Jordan, passed away on March 31. He would’ve benefitted from better
thyroid medicine and better testing, too. This is all such a mess, for some of us.
And like you, I’m really sick of it. And I don’t know how much more torture I can take.
I just will have to hope that it gets better for both of us, soon. I was on Armour’s for
several months this past year and last–it helped me better for awhile, then it didn’t–
I started getting the same symptoms from it as the other natural meds–doctor finally
said to try synthetics, again. I’m on Amneal T4 plus SigmaPharm T3. Not quite on
two months, though….I’ll have to see. Right now, I’m not in a great place with it–I
can only hope my testing will show something that will help. Best to you.
I NEED this struggle to end!!! In early 2018 (I think) the shortages of Naturethroid got so bad I had to switch to NP Thyroid. I thought I was doing pretty good on it until early 2019, when I began to crash really bad. I had heard Armour was also a problem so I started seeing a Naturopath in August of 2019 and have been spending several thousand dollars on gas for the 6 hour round trip to get to her, and on all the supplements treating my Adrenals, Pituitary and poor thyroid function. I was still struggling and saw posts the Armour was helping so I got switched to Armour. I was taking 2.5 grains with a bout on needing 3.5 grains. Now I’ve been backsliding so bad I bumped my 2.5 to 5 grains. I’m doing better but NOT doing as well as I was in 2017 on Naturethroid. I am so sick of this!!!! I am questioning whether Armour is also under potency too!!!!!!!! I am so sick of this. We need whatever is wrong to get corrected again. We thyroid patients don’t deserve this added stress and illness because of drug company issues with getting quality product to make these meds. And why are they not testing there products to be sure the potency is correct? In 2019, that crash had me feeling like I was dying. I can’t go through that again. I still have little energy, brain fog, slow digestion now, joint pain and so much more. I NEED to feel like myself again.
I was wondering why my hair was still falling out, headaches and have no energy with digestive issues. My script was increased and my testing was acceptable but I wonder how this can be it seems it should test low? Wonder what their testing?
As an Australian who was unable to get the Thiroyd from Thailand due to COVID I went back to the compounded NDT from my compound pharmacy and just like years ago when I used to take it, my symptoms returned fast and furious! I am not sure if its not strong enough or if its something to do with the fillers, but whatever the compound pharmacies use here doesn’t work for me. I have since obtained Armour and things seem back to normal for now. Why are NDT thyroid medications so hard to get right?
I’ve been on Erfa for 14 years. I have had to adjust Dose’s a few times when some batches seemed weaker, it works for me.
Thank you so much for this info on Naturethroid and other NDT recalls. I checked mine and itwas filled in Aug. but is NOT affected. I started on Naturethroid in 2018 after 25 years on Synthroid, with fatigue and difficulty maintaining healthy weight and blood pressure. I gained so much from your website and it has changed my life, possibly saved my life as I was able to return to normal BP with NO BP meds at all, just the switch to NDT. I am very concerned that I will get a batch that is weak, but so far that hasn’t happened. In spite of what has been happening to others, I have chosen to stick with Naturethroid for the time being and since it appears that the same thing is occurring industry-wide, so a brand switch may bring only temporary relief. I will also consult my homeopath for advice in addition to what I am learning here. Unfortunatly, I have lost almost all confidence in the mainstream medical community, I am much better off with a homeopath, who tests more parameters, was the only one wiling to prescribe NDT, and also discovered that I had extremely low vitamin D3,which accounts for some fatigue and can weaken the immune system. Just one more bit of advice when dealing with hypothyroidism, avoid smoking and alcohol (I am 22 years zero alcohol), stay away from soda, processed foods, fried foods, concentrated sugars etc. I do eat LOTS of fresh fruit and vegetables, grilled or baked lean meats, lots of fresh squeezed orange juice, plenty of water. At 57 years old, I am still a firefighter, I work out for over an hour every shift, stay active outdoors and get plenty of sunshine. That has to help through the changes in NDT strength from batch to batch. Thanks again for all your advice and maintaining a website that helps so many people stay healthy.
Hopefully the pharmacist will know of NP recalls.
I´m in Europe and only Armour and Erfa are available here (provided you can find a doctor to prescribe NDT, that is). Even if you do, Erfa is said not to work anymore, and Armour is incredibly expensive (you easily end up paying more than 2000 USD a year if you take 4 grains daily). So, for the past five years, I´ve been taking Thyroid-S from Thailand with great results. But now it´s on backorder everywhere (apparently due to African swine fever basically wiping out stocks). Thiroyd and TR were both discontinued last year, and it would seem the swine fever pandemic was the reason. Earlier this year, one of the suppliers of NDT in Thailand started selling their own brand of NDT, Tru Thyroid. I have not tried it, but it has not been getting good reviews in the forums I´m a member of. It´s only available as 30 mg pills and is reported to be weak. Another brand has appeared on the market recently – Real Thyroid from a Vietnamese pharmaceutical company. It´s available as 1 grain pills. Unfortunately, it contains both seaweed and potassium iodide which can be problematic for people with hypothyroidism, especially Hashimoto´s (potassium iodide is even used to treat hyperthyroidism). Plus, the pills are huge and very difficult to swallow from what I´ve read . One person tried to chew the pills up and said it was like “eating sawdust”. I checked the list of ingredients, and it also contains cellulose.
The situation is extremely worrying. It appears Thyroid-S will be available soon, but the price has gone up so much that it´s now as expensive as Armour. One 500 ct bottle (the biggest one now made) costs more than twice as much as a 1000 ct bottle used to cost. And suppliers warn us the price may go up again. I am seriously considering switching to synthetic T3 and T4 as I see no future for NDT. Thousands of patients are now without Thyroid-S and without options since production was just stopped abruptly, without giving patients time to find alternatives. And now, with Thiroyd and TR discontinued and the other two brands deemed ineffective, it´s really the seller´s market…Sriprisit Pharma can charge any amount they want, and people who need Thyroid-S will have no choice but to pay. One thing is certain – Thai NDT is no longer the reliable, cost-effective alternative it once was. A real shame!!!
It IS so frustrating that we are just trying to obtain quality consistent product for much need supplementation, but are put into this bind.
Thanks so much for the current info on NDT from the pacific rim.
Hi Anna… wondering if you can tell me what forums you’re talking about in regards to your comment about Tru Thyroid? After a long time on Thiroyd I’m looking for an alternative and have been considering Tru Thyroid, but have not found any patient experiences reported on any forums. Are they reporting it to be weak simply because they’re only 30mgs or is the potency not equal to other (effective) NDTs? BTW… regarding Thiroyd… I was told by my supplier when this all went down last summer that Greater Pharma decided to stop production because the Thai government started requiring new product licensing. If true, that surely would be affecting pricing for Thyroid-S I would think. Thanks in advance for any info you may have for me.
Hello Pete, I have tried Tru-Thyroid. The company, Natural Noon, makes it themselves. The website is http://www.naturalnoon.com or http://www.truthyroid.com. I ordered it just when Covid hit because Thiroyd was no longer being made (which worked beautifully for me). I ordered Tru Thyroid end of April, 2020, and did not receive it until end of July. The tablets are very tiny, and they stick to the teeth terribly. 2 tablets equals 1 grain. They seem to be sub potent, so I tried 3 tablets, which seemed to help, but still I was unsure if 3 tablets (1.5 grains) was the right dose for me. I placed a month’s worth in a container with some dessicant packets (to help dry tablets out) and that seemed to help a bit to keep the tablets from sticking to the teeth–but it only helped a tiny bit. The poor quality and the sub-potency may both be due to the terribly long transit time, and being who knows where for 3 months. They were apparently held up in Bangkok. When I realized that it was becoming increasingly difficult to order NDT overseas, I went to a doctor in June, and asked them to prescribe Nature Throid, 65 mg. That seemed to work ok, but I still was not feeling great. Then Nature Throid was recalled in September 2020, and now I’m trying NP Thyroid (60 mg). Still not feeling optimal. I was hoping Tru Thyroid would be a solution to not being able to obtain Thiroyd anymore, but I’m not sure what to do now either. I hope that helps regarding Tru Thyroid.
Catherine, NP was recalled, too. It’s had a lot of problems, say patients.
Hi Catherine… thanks so much for chiming in. I think that pretty much steers me away from Tru-Thyroid. Meanwhile I started on Armour. Haven’t been on that since the 2009 reformulation. And now it’s about 5x the price it was then. We shall see. Hope the NP works out for you. Once again… your info is much appreciated.
In UK at present T3 (LIOTHYRONINE) costs the NHS as follows:
“In 2016, the 28-day National Health Service (NHS) cost of liothyronine in the UK increased dramatically from about £4Â·50 to £258Â·19, resulting in widespread patient concern and media coverage.1 Jan 2019”
I had a consultation with a prof D in Cardiff who prescribed me T3 liothoronine about 8yrs ago. When the covid broke out, I informed my GP that I couldnt get the NDT because the supply chain has broken (it had by the way) and she re-instated that old prescription. I then researched the brand I take and found thatt a months supply is almost £300 for 28 x 20mg tablets instead of the original price of under a fiver!!! I wonder how long I will be until they remove the prescription?
I got that notice with my last Rx of NP Thyroid 60mg. It said possibly over amount. I have been happy with NP Thyroid after my doc wanted to take me off of Levothyroxine and cytomel because my TSH was 0.001 Lately I have experienced weight gain, fatigue, dry skin and eyes, and other symptoms. Thought it could be meds or Covid restrictions (!) Anyway, my T3 was finally in range last bloodwork after always being below range. My doc won’t test anything other than TSH, T3 and T4. I am now on medicare and Rx only covers Levo so I pay with GoodRx ($50/90 pills). So frustrated.
Hi. A September FDA announcement now is saying that some of the tablets are underpotent. It’s in the paragraph about the recall.
Wow, prayers for your husband and “Thank you so much” for this email regarding the recall, I have to order my Nature-Thyroid on Tuesday so will be calling my pharmacist and doctor as what to do as I cannot take the Synthroid or any generic form, hopefully, my pharmacist can compound my medication for me, as they did once before when there was a recall from another brand I was on, will be costly but I must have my medication. I have been having problems for about 6 months my prescription is filled every 90 days and my doctors has been trying to find out what is wrong with me, as a test was done about 9 months ago I was ok, but many of things I read are my story of bad health, wow, maybe this is my problems.
Once again, thanks so much for your website and emails that help us all.
Great article Janie! Another good question would be where does Armour get it’s porcine from if they are still good?
I’d like to know that too, Lynn. I’ve been on Armour for many years. It’s the only thing that works for me.
I cannot answer your question, but my supplier of Thai NDT recently told me that the Thai manufacturers, as well as “several US manufacturers”, get their raw material from China (one of the countries hit hardest by the outbreak of African swine fever). Maybe Allergan (mfg of Armour) sources their raw material domestically which could explain the difference…? Although I have been doing fine on Thai NDT for years, I am not too crazy about the idea of the raw material coming from China, since I have no idea which drugs and pesticides they allow.